Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Frida Egg Podcast. Here's part two
Speaker 1: of our podcast with Roberto Castro. If you miss part one,
Speaker 1: check it out and enjoy.
Speaker 2: I miss a green. For example, I'm already upset when
Speaker 2: I find my ball in the bunker, I'm really upset.
Speaker 3: And when I find my.
Speaker 2: Ball in a brid egg, Frida egg, the dreaded Frida egg,
Speaker 2: Frida egg, fridagg Frida egg, bride egg, lie, I'm about
Speaker 2: ready to run off with the hump.
Speaker 1: So, uh, how do you go about setting up your schedule?
Speaker 1: You know, this year you're you're coming in with websites,
Speaker 1: so it's a little bit different than when you're you know,
Speaker 1: you've kept your card and your and you've got full
Speaker 1: status on on tour.
Speaker 3: How how how do you?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I've done a terrible job of scheduling
Speaker 2: for most of my career. So I'm learning learning to
Speaker 2: do that, maybe at a very late stage in my career,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I'm pretty much just taking a chunk at
Speaker 2: a time, So like West Coast and then Florida Swing
Speaker 2: and then summer, see what I get into, see what
Speaker 2: I don't. But you know, I got two little ones
Speaker 2: at home, so the days of hauling off for you know,
Speaker 2: five six weeks in a row are over. But I
Speaker 2: think it's gonna help me because I think the biggest, dumbest,
Speaker 2: some of the dumbest things I've done is, you know,
Speaker 2: play too much and kind of chase it and just
Speaker 2: think about it the wrong way. So you know, I'm
Speaker 2: hoping to play like twenty times this year, and you
Speaker 2: know I kind of did that last year. I was like,
Speaker 2: I'm going to play X number of tournaments and I
Speaker 2: need to get to you know, a certain dollar amount
Speaker 2: to do this or and if I don't, I don't
Speaker 2: like That's that's the Uh, that's the crux of it,
Speaker 2: not whether I played enough. I'm not going to look
Speaker 2: back on the year and be like I should have
Speaker 2: played two more. It's like, no, you should have played better.
Speaker 2: If I if I don't, accomplis what I want to accomplish.
Speaker 2: So it's it's helped me. I think it's going to
Speaker 2: help me, you know, really make the most of every week.
Speaker 2: It's my my coach John Tillery said the funniest thing
Speaker 2: to him is going to tour events and guys coming
Speaker 2: into lunch on Thursday and it's like, how do you
Speaker 2: do one over one under, Like they just think it's
Speaker 2: another week where you're playing for seven million dollars and
Speaker 2: those aren't like the best players. The best players like
Speaker 2: look at every week is a huge opportunity to win,
Speaker 2: and they you know, they have such like a high
Speaker 2: energy level every week. But it's like you've become totally
Speaker 2: desympitized that. You know, if you took a kid out
Speaker 2: of college and you're like, hey, I'm going to give
Speaker 2: you a spot at whatever Houston Open playing for seven million,
Speaker 2: the kid's going to build like his whole month for
Speaker 2: two months around the one week where he can play
Speaker 2: for seven million. But you get on tour and you
Speaker 2: just like totally become you know, you lose that, you
Speaker 2: lose the focus. That's happened to me a lot. So
Speaker 2: I'm trying to do better with the scheduling.
Speaker 1: It's it's like a fascinating aspect of it is you
Speaker 1: know I get into that with work, like I you know,
Speaker 1: I worked so many hours on this stuff that like
Speaker 1: I just got up. I had a break and you
Speaker 1: know now I feel like rejuvenated and it feels like good.
Speaker 1: And it's like the same thing you get into with
Speaker 1: golf is is if you if it's there every day
Speaker 1: and you you know it, it doesn't you lose a
Speaker 1: little bit of that, you know, the specialness of it.
Speaker 3: It's that's a that's a.
Speaker 1: Great point because like when you're in an amateur level,
Speaker 1: you know, which is where everybody's coming from. There's only
Speaker 1: like ten to twelve really big tournaments in a you know,
Speaker 1: in a summer or a year, right, and those are
Speaker 1: the ones you gear up for.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, managing your excitement and your energy level is
Speaker 2: a challenge out there. Wait, because hey, every week is
Speaker 2: a good opportunity.
Speaker 1: You haven't always been with John Tillery. You you switched
Speaker 1: to him recently, right or in the last.
Speaker 2: Four years four and a half years ago? Okay, go ahead.
Speaker 1: So was it like making swing changes or changes like
Speaker 1: that when you're at the PGA tour level.
Speaker 2: That's a good question. You know, I never like rebuilt
Speaker 2: it or did anything like that. I mean when I
Speaker 2: my kind of first half on tour, I worked with
Speaker 2: my coach that was through college and uh, through like
Speaker 2: many tours, web dot com and we had I mean,
Speaker 2: I played a ton of good golf working with him,
Speaker 2: and you know, I just kind of felt like I
Speaker 2: was working on the wrong stuff and just got to
Speaker 2: a point where, like, you know, it kind of getting
Speaker 2: the same lesson but getting the same you know, poor results.
Speaker 2: So when I went to John, it was just a
Speaker 2: different lesson. And you know, I mean it's been great,
Speaker 2: been great working with him, but it was never like, Buddy,
Speaker 2: you got to you know, you got to go on
Speaker 2: a hole for three months and rebuild this thing. You know.
Speaker 2: The I played at Pinehurst the US Open, and I
Speaker 2: just hit it so bad. I mean I couldn't with
Speaker 2: a couple of holes left on Friday, like actually could
Speaker 2: have made a burdy or two and made the cut,
Speaker 2: but I was all over the map. And the next
Speaker 2: week I went and saw John for the first time,
Speaker 2: and then I went to congression all the following week
Speaker 2: and I finished like thirtieth, you know, So like I
Speaker 2: went from not hitting it, hitting it terrible, to like
Speaker 2: playing a really hard golf course pretty well, just on
Speaker 2: that one lesson. So, you know, I think, if you're
Speaker 2: a reasonably good player, you shouldn't have to like get
Speaker 2: worse before you get better. I don't believe in that,
Speaker 2: but that you know, maybe that's just in my experience.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think It's uh, it's interesting. It's like, once
Speaker 1: you reach a certain level, you're so talented. You guys
Speaker 1: are also talented at that level that it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: making a small change you clearly don't most people don't
Speaker 1: need to rebuild everything.
Speaker 3: If you made it to the PGA Tour, right, what's it?
Speaker 1: What's more frustrating playing like that week you played at
Speaker 1: Pinehurst where you couldn't hit you know, couldn't even hit
Speaker 1: the ball, or the weeks where you hit it great
Speaker 1: and you miss the cut.
Speaker 2: I've had plenty of those two. That's way more frustrating
Speaker 2: to hit a good and pop bad. Yeah, way more frustrating.
Speaker 3: I agree with that too.
Speaker 1: It's uh, so you've your dad is from Peru and
Speaker 1: your mom's from Costa Rica, which is the other way.
Speaker 2: But yeah, my mom's PERUVI and my dad's my bad.
Speaker 1: I've got a mild form of dyslexia, I think self diagnosed.
Speaker 1: So you know it's it's you've got, you know, two
Speaker 1: immigrant parents and then you know you're playing PGA Tour golf.
Speaker 1: Both your brothers played college golf, like was your were
Speaker 1: your parents golfers?
Speaker 3: Like where this golfing gene come from.
Speaker 2: Yeah, good question, myke. It's all my mom's side of
Speaker 2: the family. My grandparents played for like the national amateur
Speaker 2: team in Peru. They were lifelong golf first. And my
Speaker 2: aunt is a college She's in the College Golf Hall
Speaker 2: of Fame and played fifteen years on the LPGA Tour.
Speaker 2: And that's all on my mom's side of the family.
Speaker 2: But really my neither of my parents played. But my
Speaker 2: grandparents were you know, avid golfers, and we would spend
Speaker 2: the summers with them in Houston or mostly just spending
Speaker 2: all summer with them, and they took us out and
Speaker 2: from when I was tiny, you know, little we actually
Speaker 2: lived in the same place when we were when I
Speaker 2: was little. But I mean it's just totally for two
Speaker 2: of us, you know, I mean the you know, you
Speaker 2: read the you know these books about like you know,
Speaker 2: outliers or this or that, or you know, you read
Speaker 2: profiles of musicians, and you know, Dad always played in
Speaker 2: the band. Mom was you know my you know, every
Speaker 2: musician like their parents aren't CPAs and lawyers most of
Speaker 2: the time, right, And so I was so lucky, you know,
Speaker 2: And now that I have two little kids, like it's
Speaker 2: I can see how lucky I was. You know, my
Speaker 2: coach Tillery, he has a two boys that are you know,
Speaker 2: like five and seven under six and eight, and you know,
Speaker 2: I played nine holes with them a couple of weeks
Speaker 2: ago and John was like to, you don't understand what
Speaker 2: it took to get to this point where like they
Speaker 2: remember to grab their wedge and they don't like just
Speaker 2: go off, you know, like to get you know, to
Speaker 2: get around nine holes and with two kids that know
Speaker 2: how to play, and you know, parents are really busy,
Speaker 2: even if even if you take your kid out, you know,
Speaker 2: on the weekend or whatever. My grandparents took me every
Speaker 2: single day when I was a when I was a kid,
Speaker 2: you know, my grandmother would take us during the day
Speaker 2: and then we'd come home and you know, cool off
Speaker 2: or hang out at the pool, and then my grandfather
Speaker 2: would come home from work and we'd play at six
Speaker 2: o'clock at night till dark. And that was every day
Speaker 2: for three months during the summers. And that's what it takes.
Speaker 2: You know. It's like it was just so so lucky
Speaker 2: to have that, and you know, you need you know,
Speaker 2: it takes a environment. It's a huge thing. And golf
Speaker 2: was the one that I grew up in and you
Speaker 2: know now that I I mean the older I get,
Speaker 2: the more I just realized that like three or four
Speaker 2: things along the way of my career from being a
Speaker 2: little kid to and now we're just like huge breaks.
Speaker 2: You know, like my coach that I mentioned before, Jeff Patten,
Speaker 2: through college and many tours. In my first couple of
Speaker 2: years on tour. I mean, he spent like hundreds of
Speaker 2: hours with me because he was the director of golf
Speaker 2: of Golf Club of Georgia where we played, and he
Speaker 2: had some flexibility and he was insanely generous and I
Speaker 2: mean hundreds of hours, thousands of hours over those six
Speaker 2: or eight years. And without that, I don't think I
Speaker 2: would have improved to the point where I could have
Speaker 2: played on the tour. So you know, a lot of
Speaker 2: those things just have to have to go your way,
Speaker 2: and for me, my family background was one of those.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's because you it's almost like you learned. It's
Speaker 1: like when say, like my dad tells me to do
Speaker 1: something when I'm a kid, like you don't always they're
Speaker 1: always telling you stuff to do, but like have that outside,
Speaker 1: outside influence I can imagine is like so much more
Speaker 1: valuable being able to play with somebody that's outside of
Speaker 1: your nuclear family that that gets how to play golf too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's uh, it's huge. I mean that's why
Speaker 2: you can improve a lot in college. You know, you
Speaker 2: go to a team where you're surrounded by people that
Speaker 2: are trying to do the same thing, and you have
Speaker 2: a game every day, or just the right club, you know,
Speaker 2: like Hillary said that, you know, the research shows like
Speaker 2: you either need like proximity or like a parents, Like
Speaker 2: you either like live next door to like a golf
Speaker 2: course or a tennis court or whatever, right, or you
Speaker 2: have like a parent or a family member that's like,
Speaker 2: you know, really involved in that sport. And like I
Speaker 2: had both. You know, we played a court nearby, And
Speaker 2: I mean a lot of things have to go right
Speaker 2: to to get in a position to you know, kind
Speaker 2: of be at the top level of something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's you read it about entrepreneurs. It's like there's
Speaker 1: there's obviously like the great idea, but then there's a
Speaker 1: ton of hard work and a lot of luck that
Speaker 1: goes into like almost everybody's success.
Speaker 2: Oh totally the luck.
Speaker 1: So you're pretty uh it seems like you you think
Speaker 1: a lot about the game, and you you also one
Speaker 1: of the things you value is like balanced.
Speaker 3: But what would you what do you what do you do.
Speaker 1: When you're on the road for a week, like when
Speaker 1: you're not at the golf course, because how like I
Speaker 1: can't imagine you're spending like ten hours a day at
Speaker 1: the course.
Speaker 2: No. No, Yeah, if my family's traveling, you know, I'll
Speaker 2: hang with them. But if not, really just read a
Speaker 2: bunch of stuff, you know. I mean some magazines you
Speaker 2: can kind of go down like the internet wormhole of
Speaker 2: you know, following articles and uh, you know, as much
Speaker 2: as people like to knock on social media, you know,
Speaker 2: if you use it the right way, it can lead
Speaker 2: you to like a ton of great knowledge. And I mean really,
Speaker 2: in the last couple of years, I've kind of gotten
Speaker 2: more into like, you know, reading about golf or learning
Speaker 2: about it. I'm not traditionally, you know, a golf junkie.
Speaker 2: I think that you know, this stuff just didn't exist before,
Speaker 2: Like you were doing the Frida Egg and you know,
Speaker 2: people were talking about this stuff on social media. I mean,
Speaker 2: I don't know where you went to find this stuff.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think about that with golf courses
Speaker 2: a lot too. It's like I've played so many great
Speaker 2: golf courses, and again, I'm like a lot of them.
Speaker 2: I was a nineteen year old kid that like you know,
Speaker 2: didn't appreciate how good he had it. But on the
Speaker 2: other hand, it was like, yeah, so I want to
Speaker 2: play Cyprus Point when I was twenty. But like unless
Speaker 2: I like had a book on Cyprus Point or like
Speaker 2: you know, you couldn't like do any like research before,
Speaker 2: like read about it or this or that. Now, if
Speaker 2: I'm going to play sand Hills, I could read like
Speaker 2: ten articles that you wrote or whoever wrote and find
Speaker 2: out like what the story was, who the architect was,
Speaker 2: how it was. That didn't exist for most of my career,
Speaker 2: so that you know, that may be whatever. But I
Speaker 2: mean I go all over the map when I'm on
Speaker 2: the road. I don't really watch shows. I just don't
Speaker 2: have like the attention span for it. I'd rather like
Speaker 2: flip between magazines and articles and and things like that.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it's a do you it's it's interesting.
Speaker 1: Do you do you think about like stuff you read
Speaker 1: about non golf related and trying to apply it to golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. And I think there's tons of tons of overlap,
Speaker 2: whether it's like you know, kind of like what success
Speaker 2: literature like how to make it? You know, not really
Speaker 2: self help stuff. But you know, even if you just
Speaker 2: read like a profile of somebody of how they how
Speaker 2: they achieved, what they achieved, there's a lot of overlap
Speaker 2: with golf. I just read you're Chicago guy. Are you
Speaker 2: a Wilco fan?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I dabble. I'm not like a I'm not
Speaker 1: like a die hard. It wouldn't be my like first
Speaker 1: concert i'd go see, but I enjoy their music.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I just read, you know, he came out
Speaker 2: with an you know, memoir autobiography and you know, guy
Speaker 2: lives on the road a lot. It's a lot of
Speaker 2: you know, overlap, but there's a I don't know. It's
Speaker 2: funny though, when I'm like playing, when I'm like energized
Speaker 2: about things I have nothing to do with golf, Like
Speaker 2: like you said, when I go home to the golf
Speaker 2: to the hotel in the afternoon, if I spend like
Speaker 2: three hours like in high energy mode like reading and
Speaker 2: maybe I'll write something or I'll you know, find a
Speaker 2: new book and like burn through half of it, that's
Speaker 2: when I'm like playing, Well, it's like an overall energy
Speaker 2: level when I am just like I don't know what
Speaker 2: to do this afternoon, and I maybe like veg out
Speaker 2: to a movie, or like I'm just bummed about being
Speaker 2: on the road. I don't play well like and I
Speaker 2: think that's you know, kind of that just like rhythm
Speaker 2: of you know, human rhythm of like being in a
Speaker 2: highly productive state versus not. To me, it carries over
Speaker 2: away from just your you know, your actual jobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, the balance, you know, it's like the everything in life.
Speaker 1: It's all about balance. You can't be just a one
Speaker 1: dimensional person. I feel like and like learning about other
Speaker 1: stuff is so important to because you can learn from
Speaker 1: other people that are doing completely different things. That's I
Speaker 1: feel like I grew up cattying and that's something I
Speaker 1: learned from Catty and was like, you know, I'd be
Speaker 1: you know, I was I was a high school player,
Speaker 1: a good high school player, and I'd be catting for
Speaker 1: these like twenty five handicaps and they'd say something about
Speaker 1: the game of golf and I'd be like, huh, never
Speaker 1: thought of it that.
Speaker 3: Way, and it would help me, you know, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's ah, so it would do you ever think about
Speaker 1: you know, post career, like what what you would like
Speaker 1: to do?
Speaker 3: You know, obviously you're still young.
Speaker 2: I think, yeah, I'm not quite aging out yet, but
Speaker 2: I'm also not not that excited to see all these
Speaker 2: you know, cameraon champs that show up every year. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean I think about it. I don't know. I
Speaker 2: love golf. There's you know, interesting used to be done
Speaker 2: in golf, but I also could see myself going in
Speaker 2: a completely different direction. You know. I think, like I
Speaker 2: said earlier, guys careers on tour, I think you're going
Speaker 2: to see more of the if you're kind of like
Speaker 2: the average tour player, more of guys playing from twenty
Speaker 2: five to thirty five, and if you're a superstar, you know,
Speaker 2: playing from twenty to thirty or twenty to forty if
Speaker 2: you're a superstar. But everyone loves to point out the
Speaker 2: outliers as to what's possible. Well, Stricter played till he's fifty.
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, but there's outliers in every field. That
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that anyone can do it, you know. It's
Speaker 2: like David Toms kept his card to least fifty. It's unbelievable,
Speaker 2: first of all, but the number, you know, you're talking
Speaker 2: about like two three guys in the last Davis Love whatever.
Speaker 2: There's yeah, three or four guys in the last like
Speaker 2: ten years that could do that. So I don't see myself.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's just going to be so difficult in
Speaker 2: this in this landscape to just you know, play that
Speaker 2: you know, ten years when you're just like, yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean it's not my prime, but I'll just stay on tour.
Speaker 2: That's not really going to be an option for most guys.
Speaker 1: Hey, you never know, though you might might I something
Speaker 1: might click and it could just completely change.
Speaker 3: I don't know. You could be an outlier.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, totally. Like I said, when I look back
Speaker 2: at how many dumb things I've done in my career,
Speaker 2: like it's crazy to like start this year feeling like
Speaker 2: I actually might know what I'm doing as far as like,
Speaker 2: you know, some of the scheduling stuff and just not
Speaker 2: making the obvious mistakes that I've made in the past
Speaker 2: that I actually feel like there could be some some
Speaker 2: really good stuff ahead.
Speaker 1: Let me let me ask you a question. I I
Speaker 1: know this moment vividly for what's the worst shot you've
Speaker 1: ever hit in your competitive career?
Speaker 2: God, great question, Just like bad shot, like like I.
Speaker 4: Can't think like that, like like given the circumstance like
Speaker 4: where like you know you could be it could have
Speaker 4: been like you you just made seven berdis in a
Speaker 4: row and you just like get this complete awful like.
Speaker 1: I think about it. So I in high school golf,
Speaker 1: I played really well in our regional. I get in
Speaker 1: the sectional, I'm like the last tea time. I'm paired
Speaker 1: with some really high profile players that played D one golf,
Speaker 1: and like the first tee I laid side over like
Speaker 1: an iron off the tee. It hit like seven inches
Speaker 1: behind the ball. The worst shot I've ever had in
Speaker 1: my life.
Speaker 2: Oh man, that's great. I remember like four putting at
Speaker 2: a high school regional on the last hole for our
Speaker 2: team to miss by like one or something that was
Speaker 2: not good. I was playing with Chris Kirk that day
Speaker 2: and he like barely rolled out him looked like he
Speaker 2: like didn't raise a finger and shot like sixty three.
Speaker 2: So that made it extra discouraging. Gosh, I don't know
Speaker 2: about like the situation. I can picture some bad shots,
Speaker 2: so like that Pinehurst R five at US Open. It's
Speaker 2: like number five or something that like that long one
Speaker 2: that goes up to the left. I mean I hit
Speaker 2: one one hundred yards right off the tee, one hundred
Speaker 2: yards right, and I somehow I like hit the last
Speaker 2: pine tree on the road over there and stayed in play.
Speaker 2: But just like shots like that, you know, maybe not
Speaker 2: that was probably a pretty low pressure situation because I
Speaker 2: was probably just outside the cut anyway. But there's some
Speaker 2: you know, everyone has those though, everyone has. If you
Speaker 2: stay in this game long enough, you're can to take
Speaker 2: some pretty bad licks. That's just part of it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at least it's not like a shank off the tee,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's I played. I played with. Yeah, I got
Speaker 2: memories of other guys, you know, like some of the
Speaker 2: shots they hit or good or bad. Yeah, it's never
Speaker 2: so situational. It's just like purely the shot that they hit.
Speaker 1: You know, you want to do some overrated under Yeah
Speaker 1: all right, sure, who haven't done this in a while? So,
Speaker 1: uh overrated underrated putting with the pin in?
Speaker 2: I think it'll prove to be underrated.
Speaker 3: Are you gonna put with the pin in?
Speaker 2: I think a lot of guys will outside of twenty
Speaker 2: or thirty feet yeah, and I think I will.
Speaker 3: Yes, do you let me ask you a question.
Speaker 1: I feel like Bryson's chops with his like, you know,
Speaker 1: testing are very overrated. Like you you went to an
Speaker 1: academic institution for engineering, do you do like testing?
Speaker 3: Like like if you no, right?
Speaker 2: No? Yeah, no, and look you can you know, I
Speaker 2: don't know how deep into the weeds he gets. But
Speaker 2: like for something to be like statistically significant, you got
Speaker 2: to do more than like ten shots on a track.
Speaker 2: Mean you got to do you know, I mean I
Speaker 2: don't know those formulas my head anymore, but you know,
Speaker 2: hitting ten putts against the pen and seeing that eight
Speaker 2: go in and two don't go in, it's not statistically significant.
Speaker 2: I mean you can call it that, but it's not.
Speaker 1: I think I remember from like a statistics course, it's
Speaker 1: like sixteen hundred is like the minimum sample size for
Speaker 1: something to be statistically significant.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I you're probably right. I don't remember. I'm just
Speaker 2: so confused though about like the disconnect between like scientists
Speaker 2: that are actually scientists and then like like the FedEx
Speaker 2: Cup this is ten years old news, but the year
Speaker 2: that like VJ won before the Tour Championship, okay, and
Speaker 2: then the next year it was like super way too
Speaker 2: volatile and they're like, look, this a while to get
Speaker 2: it right. And I'm just thinking, like I had professors
Speaker 2: in is strictly an industrial engineering problem, it's just a
Speaker 2: math problem, Like it's a modeling problem. You can. I
Speaker 2: had professors and tas and grads, you know, PhD students,
Speaker 2: Like I just feel like with a fifty dollars could
Speaker 2: have given them to some PhD at Georgia Tech and
Speaker 2: they could have modeled the fed X cup. Like I
Speaker 2: had an instructor in a math class who was like
Speaker 2: he was getting his PhD, and I was like, what
Speaker 2: do you do with this job? Like what are you
Speaker 2: going to do with this stuff we're learning? And he's like, well,
Speaker 2: you can make a model of like whether it's you know,
Speaker 2: financially feasible to for Boeing to develop and build a
Speaker 2: new jet. So you're talking about like building an equation
Speaker 2: with one hundred and fifty variables in it to figure out,
Speaker 2: you know, because like this new Dreamliner, like it's going
Speaker 2: to be a production for like thirty or forty years,
Speaker 2: Like does it make sense cost? Benett? How did we
Speaker 2: not get the fed X cup right? You know, Like
Speaker 2: I just don't understand how we didn't like get some Standford,
Speaker 2: Georgia Tech PhD to run like a million models of
Speaker 2: this so that VJ couldn't win the damn thing before
Speaker 2: it even started. That's just so confusing to me. But
Speaker 2: you know, maybe they did, and maybe the tech guy
Speaker 2: got it wrong. I don't know.
Speaker 3: What. What do you think of the news system?
Speaker 2: I think it's it's great. I think it's great. And
Speaker 2: to give my I got a buddy who's been like
Speaker 2: couting this exact system for like ten years and he's
Speaker 2: completely vindicated by the tour doing it. I think it's good.
Speaker 2: I think people can understand it. Every you know, you
Speaker 2: should have to win the last tournament. You should have
Speaker 2: to win the last tournament to win the championships.
Speaker 3: But it's not winning if it's not winning if you
Speaker 3: start with the lead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it's consumable. It's consumable to the fan. I
Speaker 2: think it's great.
Speaker 1: I mean, should it count as an official win if
Speaker 1: you start card Well, I'm just saying. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: this is that you're talking, say say you win that.
Speaker 1: Say somebody wins this and they pass somebody else that
Speaker 1: played in a different era for career wins. You know,
Speaker 1: someone might look at that twenty years from now and say, hey,
Speaker 1: this guy had a better career. He had more career wins,
Speaker 1: and two of them could come from an event where
Speaker 1: he started with the lead.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't care, all right, Hey, I don't care.
Speaker 2: You know, I just don't care.
Speaker 3: What do you think about match play?
Speaker 2: I just don't have much experience with it. I think
Speaker 2: it's I think it's what most people play. They play
Speaker 2: nassas at home. You know, it just doesn't work in
Speaker 2: professional golf because you lose half your stars every round,
Speaker 2: so it's tough. You know.
Speaker 1: My idea for the Tour Championship would you you do
Speaker 1: match play and you play out all the thirty two spots,
Speaker 1: so instead of thirty, you got thirty guys in there,
Speaker 1: and you play the matches all the way through one
Speaker 1: through thirty two. So like there's a thirty one versus
Speaker 1: thirty two match on Sunday, just like there's a one
Speaker 1: versus two match.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean you could if Dustin and speak
Speaker 2: are playing a thirty one to thirty two match, Like
Speaker 2: that's a marquee matchup. But you got to watch the
Speaker 2: guy that's gonna win fifteen million, right, that's the one
Speaker 2: people are going to want to watch.
Speaker 3: Well, all of them are.
Speaker 1: There's something being played for all of them. Like, and
Speaker 1: that's the thing is, like why do people go watch people?
Speaker 1: There's if you go to somebody's club championship, there's like
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty people watching the club championship.
Speaker 3: It's an easy way.
Speaker 1: To follow golf, Like match play is so much easier
Speaker 1: for the casual fan.
Speaker 3: Like I told this story on my other pot.
Speaker 1: It's like, you know, I went to the after the
Speaker 1: after the match, I went to the bar and all
Speaker 1: my all my buddies aren't golfers. They're all like my
Speaker 1: you know, they're my college buddies. None of them are.
Speaker 1: They're all casual golfers. And I go to the bar
Speaker 1: and they never ask me about golf unless it's the Masters,
Speaker 1: you know. And I get to the bar and all
Speaker 1: of them are just asking me how the match was,
Speaker 1: Like and this is moments after I've never seen but
Speaker 1: it's so easy for them to understand match play.
Speaker 2: Yeah you're talking about the Tiger, Phil, Yeah, did you
Speaker 2: watch that? I watched the front nine?
Speaker 3: What'd you think?
Speaker 2: I thought it as a general like the date is
Speaker 2: perfect and I think like a pay per view to
Speaker 2: e the golf event is also has a ton of potential.
Speaker 2: I thought that particular iteration of it was pretty rough.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought they did.
Speaker 1: Like the idea is brilliant, the execution was horrible. But
Speaker 1: like just what you said, like you were watching all
Speaker 1: those shells wonderful world of golf.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I was. I had a d V
Speaker 2: yard and was just watching because I wanted to see
Speaker 2: the courses back in the day. Yeah, but those are
Speaker 2: stroke play match.
Speaker 3: Play, Yeah, those are weird.
Speaker 2: You know, Jan Littler got into the woods there at
Speaker 2: Pine Valley and what he will almost never saw him
Speaker 2: again seven on it. So that was a ball game.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's an interesting thing I think about too, is
Speaker 1: like the one thing that match play doesn't account for
Speaker 1: is like the big number.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, hey, that's you know, I you know, I
Speaker 2: listened to some of your stuff in the conversation about
Speaker 2: like that's just a perfect example of like professional golf
Speaker 2: versus just regular golf.
Speaker 1: It.
Speaker 2: You know, we're just so indoctrinated to playing seventy two
Speaker 2: whole stroke play and whether it's right and it's just
Speaker 2: the way it is, you know, like it doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be that way forever, and you can throw some
Speaker 2: random events in there, but you know, the big number is,
Speaker 2: you know all those the way we've built professionals have
Speaker 2: like built their game to be played is to maximize
Speaker 2: a seventy two hoole stroke play result.
Speaker 1: So so so is stroke play overrated or underrated?
Speaker 2: Properly rated?
Speaker 3: Oh man, can't can't properly rate that.
Speaker 2: I'm going to go underrated.
Speaker 1: The I was gonna also ask is Tillery and Jeopardy
Speaker 1: of losing his job to club pro guy?
Speaker 2: He yeah, I mean he's pretty concerned about it. He's
Speaker 2: definitely given me a discount on my rate just to
Speaker 2: you know, kind of keep me around. So he was
Speaker 2: worried about losing me, so he said he's gonna give
Speaker 2: me a half off for the first half of next year.
Speaker 2: So that's nice.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 1: Last question, if you were a golf fan, what's the
Speaker 1: PGA tour stop that you would travel to go go see.
Speaker 2: That's a great question. And honestly, after my rookie year
Speaker 2: or maybe my second year, when I saw all you know,
Speaker 2: by then i'd seen all the stops, I think if
Speaker 2: you're a golf fan, you should go to one tour
Speaker 2: event a year, because there are really really cool tour events.
Speaker 2: If you go in person to any tour event, I
Speaker 2: think you'll become a golf fan. And they all are
Speaker 2: very different and they have their own personality and they're awesome.
Speaker 2: There really are, Like I mean, you can complain about
Speaker 2: the wrap around or whatever, and I know I've done
Speaker 2: it before. And then you go to NAPA. It's like, golf,
Speaker 2: we just finished a week ago. It's a joke. And
Speaker 2: then you go to NAPA and there's thousands of people eating,
Speaker 2: drinking wine, watching golf. It's a beautiful setting and you're like,
Speaker 2: all right, I get it. Like these people are, they're
Speaker 2: having the time of their lives out here. They're like
Speaker 2: halfway watching golf. But you know, to answer your question,
Speaker 2: Colonial is awesome, Tory Pines is awesome, Charlotte is awesome.
Speaker 2: Travelers gets a bunch of people. The Players is awesome.
Speaker 2: The Players is really cool. Yeah, they're all different, and
Speaker 2: the product in person is really really good, and the
Speaker 2: you know, the kind of the personality of the town
Speaker 2: comes out a little bit. And the I mean, like
Speaker 2: San Diego, I mean, I don't know eighty percent of
Speaker 2: the people there watched more than like two shots. But
Speaker 2: it's usually beautiful and it's just like a culture of
Speaker 2: like being outside and it just feels like the you know,
Speaker 2: like the winter is like suspended for a minute because
Speaker 2: you're you're there. It's just great.
Speaker 1: So sorry, this is one more question. Do you think
Speaker 1: the players should be a major? No?
Speaker 2: Right, No, I don't really care too much about like
Speaker 2: history or this or that, you know, like the relative
Speaker 2: comparing the fifties to now, But I think four majors
Speaker 2: is four majors. I think that's pretty That's probably where
Speaker 2: I draw the line as far as you know, let's
Speaker 2: keep some things consistent for comparison safe. I have a
Speaker 2: question for you though, all right, do you think that
Speaker 2: like listening to the you know, the architecture junkies like
Speaker 2: yourself and your whole crowd, do you think that the
Speaker 2: Dope and the core Crenshaw and the gil Hands do
Speaker 2: you think it's just the current, Like I feel like
Speaker 2: you're convinced that like it's just better now and like
Speaker 2: now they're getting it right, whereas like in the eighties
Speaker 2: and nineties when it was like Fazzio and Nicholas. Don't
Speaker 2: you think you would have been like, look, Fazzio is
Speaker 2: building these great golf Like do you think twenty years
Speaker 2: from now is it that different than fashion? Like are
Speaker 2: you know, are these courses going to be great forever
Speaker 2: or are you just convinced that your current era that
Speaker 2: these guys are getting it right.
Speaker 1: So that's great question. I think obviously, like anything, there's trends,
Speaker 1: but if you look at the greatest golf courses in
Speaker 1: the world, they embody a few core characteristics, like they're
Speaker 1: extremely There's like most of the great golf courses have
Speaker 1: with right Augusta is really wide, it's almost impossible to
Speaker 1: lose a golf ball except for like the couple ponds,
Speaker 1: you know, the So from that standpoint, like these guys
Speaker 1: kind of design with the principles of you know, the greatest.
Speaker 3: Architects of all time.
Speaker 1: I think at the end of the day, golf architecture
Speaker 1: is extremely simple and the toughest skill for an arc
Speaker 1: that for an architect to have is actually restraint. So
Speaker 1: like doing less is more, and I think the minimalist
Speaker 1: approach to it, like like why is Saint Andrew's like
Speaker 1: our Argia with the greatest golf course of the world,
Speaker 1: Like it's like also and it was done when people
Speaker 1: knew so little. There there's another whole thing with like amateurs,
Speaker 1: like designing golf courses. Like Hugh Wilson designed Marion. He
Speaker 1: he never designed another golf course. Uh you know, look
Speaker 1: at Crump at Pine Valley Founds it at Oakmont, like
Speaker 1: all these guys did.
Speaker 3: It was their first course. And uh so.
Speaker 1: I think like at the end of the day, I
Speaker 1: think like there's there's a lot of things with like
Speaker 1: the naturalness that they do these golf courses where they
Speaker 1: aren't they're very sympathetic to the land. Like something that
Speaker 1: bugs me is like you know when you go to
Speaker 1: like say a Fasio or a Jones courses like the
Speaker 1: you know they they had the earth moving capabilities and
Speaker 1: they did almost too much where you know, you have
Speaker 1: these like you have containment mounting that blocks like your
Speaker 1: long views of the golf course. Like little things like
Speaker 1: that are really like my pet peeves. But I think
Speaker 1: the trends are going to change and and there's gonna
Speaker 1: be a new wave of our architects, just like you know,
Speaker 1: there's this new wave of golfers, Like I don't know
Speaker 1: what the next wave of golf architect. Texture is going
Speaker 1: to be like what the next trend's going to be,
Speaker 1: But they're certainly going to be a new trend. If
Speaker 1: I knew what the next trend would was going to be,
Speaker 1: I'd quit my job and become a golf architect. But yeah,
Speaker 1: they I mean they are like essentially, I don't know.
Speaker 1: I think the principles that they use and are the
Speaker 1: key ones though, Like the strategic nature of a lot
Speaker 1: of their holes, Like it's a blend of the three
Speaker 1: schools of like you know, some holes are going to
Speaker 1: be penal, some holes are heroic, but the vast majority
Speaker 1: of them have strategy. And at your level, the strategy
Speaker 1: doesn't really matter, because we talked about it is like
Speaker 1: you hit it so far that you know you have
Speaker 1: leg in your hand. It doesn't matter what angle you
Speaker 1: have when you have leg in your hand as much.
Speaker 2: Okay, that leads in another question. So if at my
Speaker 2: level the guys hit it too far and they're too
Speaker 2: good for the strategy to matter, I'm confused as to
Speaker 2: like who it's because everyone I play with and whether
Speaker 2: avid like they're not good enough to play strategy, you
Speaker 2: know what I mean? Like, let's let's see, I read
Speaker 2: this like stuff, and I'm like, even my buddy who's
Speaker 2: like a tent who's like a good player, like he
Speaker 2: can't hit it down the left or the right side
Speaker 2: of the fairway. He's just trying to hit it in
Speaker 2: the faraway, like anywhere in the fairway, even if it's
Speaker 2: a huge faaraway. So I'm confused as to like who
Speaker 2: the whole like the whole like you know, you know,
Speaker 2: cottage industry around this stuff is like for what like
Speaker 2: a high level midamateter. I'm just confused who's like taking
Speaker 2: this stuff like.
Speaker 1: It's actually like a fascinating thing. Is so like here's
Speaker 1: a here's something. What about a lady? Like what about
Speaker 1: your aunt probably has the ball on a string but
Speaker 1: hits it low? Yeah, that or a senior player strategy
Speaker 1: is like paramount to them. Like I can tell my
Speaker 1: mom isn't she's a I don't know, probably like a
Speaker 1: probably like an eighteen handicap, but she no, she hits
Speaker 1: at one hundred and fifty yards like And this is
Speaker 1: kind of what bugs me when I get in arguments
Speaker 1: with some like super statistical people. It's like, you know,
Speaker 1: an angle of approach really matters for somebody that can't
Speaker 1: put a ton of spin on the ball or doesn't
Speaker 1: have wedge in their hand.
Speaker 3: Like that's like a perfect example.
Speaker 1: Your buddy who's a ten handicap, if he's got two
Speaker 1: twenty from a disadvantaged angle, he'd be way better off
Speaker 1: just hitting it short left of a green that say,
Speaker 1: he's on the right side of the fairway to a
Speaker 1: green that goes left to right, He'd be way better
Speaker 1: off playing it left and then chipping.
Speaker 3: Up it from there.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understanding when you're in a position to attack
Speaker 1: versus a position where you have really no shot is
Speaker 1: obviously very important for somebody.
Speaker 3: The less skilled you are. Yeah, so you know, and
Speaker 3: you can.
Speaker 1: Try and like listen, like, I think this is a
Speaker 1: misconception too. If people think like I'm saying, like, hey,
Speaker 1: you need to hit the ball down the left, aim
Speaker 1: down the left edge of the fairway.
Speaker 3: That is not what I've That's not the way I play.
Speaker 2: Is.
Speaker 1: Like what I do is I'll look at it and say, okay,
Speaker 1: Like any I hit the ball three hundred yards, It's
Speaker 1: like I'll look at the hole and say, okay, like
Speaker 1: I should aim down the left center of the fairway
Speaker 1: here because I'd rather be in the left rough than
Speaker 1: the right edge of the fairway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, now I see what you're saying. You're saying if
Speaker 2: you're not necessarily trying to go there, if you end
Speaker 2: up there, you play accordingly from there.
Speaker 1: It's it's just opening and it gives. So like, here's
Speaker 1: the other aspect that I think. This is what I
Speaker 1: think is the most beautiful thing about golf architecture. Right, So,
Speaker 1: if you would have asked me four years ago before
Speaker 1: I started the frieda Egg like, I played golf for score,
Speaker 1: Like I was trying to compete in state ams. I
Speaker 1: was trying to, you know, get into USGA events. That's
Speaker 1: that's why I played golf like I took it seriously
Speaker 1: since I got you know, I always was interested in
Speaker 1: architecture growing up. I read about it like you know,
Speaker 1: a ton, I'd read books Like once I started this
Speaker 1: and I started writing about architecture, like all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: like why I played the game has completely shifted.
Speaker 3: I don't keep score.
Speaker 1: I have more fun on the golf course than I've
Speaker 1: ever had before in my life, Like I care, I
Speaker 1: like enjoy playing so much more because, like you know,
Speaker 1: what if I shoot eighty three or sixty seven, it
Speaker 1: doesn't matter to me.
Speaker 2: And yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3: And like I go.
Speaker 1: Out there and I enjoy being outside. I enjoy walking,
Speaker 1: I enjoy looking, and I like, you know, like why
Speaker 1: do people go on architectural boat tours when they go
Speaker 1: to Chicago, Like you're learning stuff, You're seeing stuff, and
Speaker 1: like I'm way more observant of what's going on around
Speaker 1: me rather than just what I'm doing. And I think
Speaker 1: that's like the most amazing thing about golf is that, like,
Speaker 1: really for ninety nine percent of the population, And this
Speaker 1: is what I think the one of the American golf's
Speaker 1: biggest problems is is that like you shouldn't care about score,
Speaker 1: You should care about being outside, being with your friends.
Speaker 1: Like I played National Golf Links with a Hickory driver
Speaker 1: and a blot of ball, and I played with guys
Speaker 1: that were in the range of twelve to fifteen handicaps,
Speaker 1: like I played when I played other times at National,
Speaker 1: Like it was like driver wedge everywhere. I'm playing hickory
Speaker 1: and blatta and I'm playing the members teas and I'm
Speaker 1: hitting it into the same spots as these guys. And
Speaker 1: what I noticed most was how much more conversation was
Speaker 1: being had because I wasn't walking sixty yards ahead of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's I don't know. That's to me.
Speaker 1: Architecture just adds another facet to the game that makes
Speaker 1: it so much more enjoyable.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I like that, and I like that, don't
Speaker 2: The only other the only other thing that I see
Speaker 2: playing in pro ams, that is, I do think that
Speaker 2: this current generation has not I just see amateurs their
Speaker 2: hole is over when they get in a bunker, Like
Speaker 2: they cannot get out of the bunker. And that's one
Speaker 2: thing that I think, like you know, the Fasio and
Speaker 2: the Nicholas courses with car paths and neighborhoods and deep
Speaker 2: bunkers and you know, all this stuff that's really kind
Speaker 2: of proving to be you know, unsustainable or expensive. We're both,
Speaker 2: uh this current you know, like I've seen all these
Speaker 2: pictures of a Hopee match club. It looks unbelievable, but like,
Speaker 2: how do people get out of the bunkers?
Speaker 1: See that's a that's a and so like a hoopie
Speaker 1: the the owners like a competitive amateur.
Speaker 3: So like that's another thing you have to keep in mind.
Speaker 1: Is like who's who's the project for It's always Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's so many variables that go into the golf course design.
Speaker 1: And and I think like a lot of times, like
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of times, you know what
Speaker 1: happened in the in the wrong era is like it
Speaker 1: was like the Hogan effect of golf. Like, you know,
Speaker 1: to a certain extent, these guys don't deserve as much
Speaker 1: flak as like someone like I give them because like
Speaker 1: they were in an era where that was thought to
Speaker 1: be good, right, and like think about like the associated
Speaker 1: penalty of you going into a bunker versus a fifteen handicap.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, that's why I think, like they
Speaker 2: just redid the golf course of my neighborhood, Bobby Jones
Speaker 2: golf Course. Yeah, they took it. I have not played
Speaker 2: it yet. It's literally rained for three straight months since
Speaker 2: it opened. But they took it from nine eighteen holes
Speaker 2: to nine holes. It's a reversible course with like seventy
Speaker 2: tea boxes. And you know they're not like I think,
Speaker 2: they're just a little spot where you can put Tea's
Speaker 2: a lot of them, not necessarily like a define tea box,
Speaker 2: but and it's all fairway and I think that's a
Speaker 2: great idea. A you can keep the ball rolling, you
Speaker 2: can putt, you can chip. But I've walked around it
Speaker 2: and there's not that many bunkers and I'm like, wow,
Speaker 2: people are actually going to be able to like finish
Speaker 2: a hole here, and whether you're playing first four or not,
Speaker 2: people want to finish the hole. And I just play
Speaker 2: with like, I'm just shocked at how many decent golfers,
Speaker 2: avid golfers I play with that. I'm like, poor guy,
Speaker 2: his hole is over, like he got in his bunker
Speaker 2: and his hole is over. And I really think they
Speaker 2: did a good job with this, Bobby Jones here with
Speaker 2: the all fair away and all and not that many
Speaker 2: deep bunkers. So that's cool.
Speaker 3: I wanted to see that.
Speaker 1: I didn't have time the last time I was down
Speaker 1: there to see it. I'm gonna go this spring sometime.
Speaker 2: But the I think that's like I live like five
Speaker 2: hundred yards from there, so hit me up.
Speaker 3: I will. That's the thing though, was like, so like
Speaker 3: if you built a golf.
Speaker 1: Course with minimum bunkers and like really interesting green complexes,
Speaker 1: it's like the perfect thing for a beginner because they
Speaker 1: could use whatever they can duff it around right. And
Speaker 1: then for a good player, like all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: those greens are the defense, and like you have to
Speaker 1: be in the right spots to attack, like you know,
Speaker 1: I'll never forget, Like there was a there's a whole
Speaker 1: San Francisco Golf. I was playing with Zach Blair there
Speaker 1: and it's like the it's the sixteenth hole, right, So
Speaker 1: I challenge the bunker on the right and I get
Speaker 1: around the bunker into the very right edge of the bunk,
Speaker 1: and he hits it up the left. We had never
Speaker 1: seen the course, you know, the green sloped hard left
Speaker 1: to right. He had absolutely no chance from the left
Speaker 1: side to hit the ball within thirty five feet of
Speaker 1: the flag, and he had a wedge in his hand right.
Speaker 1: So that's a perfect example of a hole like the
Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty handicap is gonna have no clue. You know,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter for them really, But for a good player,
Speaker 1: you have to be up the right and you have
Speaker 1: to take on this bunker to get the angle in.
Speaker 1: And this is one of the things, like I think
Speaker 1: the biggest problem with modern golf is like people complaining
Speaker 1: about greens and saying they're unfair, Like like the greens
Speaker 1: that Mackenzie built Augusta National would never get built today
Speaker 1: because people will say they're unfair, and those are That's
Speaker 1: what makes the golf course.
Speaker 2: I mean, if the if a regular tour event had
Speaker 2: greens and put pins where they put them at the Masters,
Speaker 2: no one would go play. Why they're just so extreme,
Speaker 2: they're so severe. But it's the Masters, so it's awesome.
Speaker 1: See. That's that's what drove me nuts about Trinny Forrest
Speaker 1: is they were moving teas up to take center line
Speaker 1: bunkers out of play.
Speaker 3: They were moving teas up.
Speaker 1: On par threes, so that, like the tour players like
Speaker 1: have an adverse effect to like the idea of having
Speaker 1: to aim away from something to get it close to something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I hear you. I don't know about the bunkers,
Speaker 2: but I will say that you know this, it's a
Speaker 2: it's a circle with no solution. But the I don't
Speaker 2: know about the bunkering, like I said, but the greens.
Speaker 2: The other thing that nobody thinks about is getting one
Speaker 2: hundred and fifty six guys around the golf course, or
Speaker 2: even one hundred and forty four or even ninety. I
Speaker 2: mean the rounds and the masters take five hours and
Speaker 2: forty minutes because and that's with ninety players, right. So
Speaker 2: I played at Pinehurst in the US Open, and in
Speaker 2: the practice rounds, like whoever it was Orschel or Coop
Speaker 2: to someone was like, look after round one, twelve guyrs
Speaker 2: will be leading the field. And he was right. The
Speaker 2: practice rounds, the greens were really firm, and you could
Speaker 2: stripe every shot and not hit more than twelve greens.
Speaker 2: And we got out there on Thursday and I hit
Speaker 2: it down the middle on the first hole and I
Speaker 2: spun an eight iron back off the green. They had
Speaker 2: watered the green so much and it was disappointing, and
Speaker 2: it was much easier, and Kimer obviously played great and
Speaker 2: shot low scores. But dude, if you leave a firm
Speaker 2: like that, it takes it takes six hours and twenty
Speaker 2: minutes to get around that golf course. Because you're playing
Speaker 2: for a US Open championship in ten million bucks. So
Speaker 2: if you're playing like for funnel your buddies, even if
Speaker 2: you're keeping score and you chip it across a green
Speaker 2: a couple times, it's no big deal. But guys are
Speaker 2: so good and there's so much at stake that if
Speaker 2: you're having to like, you know, not put it off
Speaker 2: the green, it takes forever. And that's a really tough
Speaker 2: thing that professional golf has to deal with that nobody
Speaker 2: ever talks about. Is to make it hard for players
Speaker 2: of the tour level. It's so hard that it takes
Speaker 2: so long to play. It's a problem. There's no solution
Speaker 2: to that. I mean, it's tough, you know.
Speaker 1: So here's something that goes into pace of play that
Speaker 1: tour players and I think the tour never thinks about,
Speaker 1: is the distance that the ball is traveling now is
Speaker 1: also causing pace of play. And look no further than Riviera,
Speaker 1: which is now like an essentially an invitational. The LA Open,
Speaker 1: one of the greatest, most historic events of all time,
Speaker 1: has now been reduced to a limited field, small field
Speaker 1: event because of distance.
Speaker 3: Like now every single player in.
Speaker 1: The field goes for tenant off the tenth t every
Speaker 1: player is waiting on eleven, every player is waiting on seventeen,
Speaker 1: and that adds so much time to the round that
Speaker 1: that's why the young players don't get the opportunity to
Speaker 1: play Riviera as.
Speaker 3: Rookies or so short.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that's that's another part of the pace of play.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean that's just a huge it's a
Speaker 2: huge issue that that that day at Sawgrass where the
Speaker 2: greens turned like eighteen on the spin meter, took six
Speaker 2: hours to play those rounds. You know, it's like, okay,
Speaker 2: so that was probably a little bit much. But like, well,
Speaker 2: you know, when you're talking about this conversation about like,
Speaker 2: well do you do golf Nascia, Now do you make
Speaker 2: the greens faster? Do you? You know, Augustus protected themselves
Speaker 2: with really severe greens and really tough pin placements and
Speaker 2: the rounds take a long time. You know what, what.
Speaker 1: About slower greens with with more interesting pins, more.
Speaker 2: Severe That's what That's what hinnacok was really good this
Speaker 2: you know, this summer, I only played Thursday Friday, played
Speaker 2: pretty well, missed the cup by won whatever. But you know,
Speaker 2: the greens were like nine or ten on the stamp,
Speaker 2: and it was windy and they had some tough pins
Speaker 2: and it was all good, you know, and then they
Speaker 2: just put two pins too close, which you know was
Speaker 2: a whole another story. But but yeah, you know, that's
Speaker 2: like what Sheen said. The whole thing about golf course
Speaker 2: conditioning has gotten out of control, you know. I mean
Speaker 2: that's why I played two British Opens and to me,
Speaker 2: they just hit a home. It's a ten out of
Speaker 2: ten over there. You know. I played at Birkdale, which is,
Speaker 2: you know, one of the two or three best tournament
Speaker 2: courses I've ever played. It was so awesome and Harrington
Speaker 2: won their ten years before at three over par and
Speaker 2: Stayden Fooch. You know, it was pretty like, you know,
Speaker 2: crappy on like Thursday for a while. Otherwise the weather
Speaker 2: was pretty good. Got to like and you know what cared.
Speaker 2: They didn't move the pins and they didn't speak the
Speaker 2: greens up, and they didn't bring in the rough or
Speaker 2: move it out, like the course is just the course
Speaker 2: and you just go play. And I think that's pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that's I think that's one of the biggest problems.
Speaker 1: And it's partially like from Augusta but like in the
Speaker 1: agronomics like have just gotten better. But to me, I
Speaker 1: don't know how you think about this, but I think
Speaker 1: the slow greens actually enhanced the skill of putters, Like
Speaker 1: the better cutters put better on slower greens.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with you on the putting. The best
Speaker 2: putters put the best strike on it. And a lot
Speaker 2: of those guys grew up on really slow greens, you know,
Speaker 2: like Russell Henley grew up in like Bermuda, you know,
Speaker 2: South Georgia and like just puts the most beautiful like
Speaker 2: strike on his putts. And I don't know what kind
Speaker 2: of greens Ricky grew up on, but that, like, you know,
Speaker 2: the hit he puts on putts is just unbelievable.
Speaker 3: I don't think he grew up on a MUNI I think.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and yeah, it's uh, I agree with you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So slower greens, more interesting pens. You know, we're
Speaker 1: just fixing all of golf problems.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just it's like whackable, you know, like you
Speaker 2: just fix one problem and you have another, you know.
Speaker 2: Like I wasn't at Trinity Forest, which we talked about,
Speaker 2: and I think maybe it was you or someone that
Speaker 2: was like, you know, they made it soft and like
Speaker 2: it didn't play hard and fast and like and they
Speaker 2: put the pin. It's like you start putting those pins
Speaker 2: three off the runoffs and you're paying you can't finish.
Speaker 2: It takes five hours and fifty minutes for a for
Speaker 2: a tour guy that has to put everything out. You know,
Speaker 2: you can't just like whack it up the slope twice
Speaker 2: and then pick up. It's a totally different deal. Tournament
Speaker 2: golf is so different. It's tough, man, it's tough. It's
Speaker 2: tough to set it up. And so how do you.
Speaker 1: How do fifteen handicaps get around trinity forrest in firmer
Speaker 1: and faster conditions get around it in less than four hours?
Speaker 1: And PGA Tour players can't get around it in less
Speaker 1: than five and a half.
Speaker 2: Whether they pick up or they just putt and it
Speaker 2: doesn't matter. They just play fast because it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: Isn't pay?
Speaker 1: I mean, like, what do you think about pace of
Speaker 1: play on the tour? Like the fact that it's actually
Speaker 1: not enforced. The rule in golf isn't enforced.
Speaker 2: I think pace of play on tour is talked about
Speaker 2: more than it needs to be because I think if
Speaker 2: you came out on a weekend where you were playing twosomes, yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it'd be shocked at how fast the pace
Speaker 2: of play.
Speaker 3: It's like four hours in twosomes on weekends.
Speaker 2: But like, yeah, that's pretty good on a hard golf course.
Speaker 1: But like, why aren't players penalized when they take like
Speaker 1: three minutes to hit a.
Speaker 2: Shot, and I just don't think it happens that often,
Speaker 2: so they're not really like, you know, there's you know
Speaker 2: the whole like JB in the middle of eighteen faaraway.
Speaker 2: Why do we talk about that because it's a rare thing.
Speaker 2: You don't see that very often.
Speaker 1: So, so, like there's a rule in golf that says
Speaker 1: you have X amount of time to hit a shot, right, right,
Speaker 1: I don't know what the exact number is, but there's
Speaker 1: a rule that says that. So like in essence, that's
Speaker 1: a shot clock. Like what if the NBA turned off
Speaker 1: the shot clock, like you'd see a lot longer possessions, right, So,
Speaker 1: like what if they enforce the rule, the rounds won't
Speaker 1: take six six hours like that, that's a that's a
Speaker 1: strict problem of like you know, the players will get
Speaker 1: mad and the tour won't do it because the players
Speaker 1: will get bad. But that's a rule that just isn't enforced,
Speaker 1: and the players know that it's not going to be enforced.
Speaker 3: That's why it takes five and a half hours.
Speaker 2: Do you think because guys take more than forty seconds
Speaker 2: to hit shot that's why you think it takes five
Speaker 2: and a half hours.
Speaker 1: I think it's one of them, like look at look
Speaker 1: at it, Like, uh, I don't think so. I mean
Speaker 1: Patrick Cantley. You know they people sat and counted how
Speaker 1: long it took it he stood stood over the ball
Speaker 1: after his preshot routine for thirty to forty seconds for
Speaker 1: an entire round, you know. Like that's yeah, that's that's
Speaker 1: like a two to three minute shot. Like I think
Speaker 1: the combination of distance. If if players just took if
Speaker 1: they don't have to wait, you know, the one thing's waiting, right,
Speaker 1: But like if the if they took the amount the
Speaker 1: allotted amount of time, you know, it would speed up
Speaker 1: the rounds immensely. It's like traffic jam, right.
Speaker 2: It wouldn't though, because there's one hundred and fifty six
Speaker 2: guys with just too many people on a golf course.
Speaker 2: You would just you would just play faster to wait more.
Speaker 2: That's all you would do.
Speaker 1: That's interesting, But that that goes to like if it's
Speaker 1: properly yeah, I guess like yeah, because you can't fit
Speaker 1: all right, I'll agree, you're.
Speaker 2: I'm field size.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like field size that's a big problem. And yeah,
Speaker 3: because like fifteen minute per hole.
Speaker 1: So it was if the tea times were blocked out
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes, then you wouldn't have a problem. But then
Speaker 1: you couldn't get one hundred and fifty six guys around right.
Speaker 2: Now, you're playing one to twenty fields and that's not
Speaker 2: you know, so field size is a huge issue. It's
Speaker 2: it's a simple reason why you play five and a
Speaker 2: half hours Thursday Friday, you tee it up Saturday morning
Speaker 2: with one less guy. It's twosomes and you play in
Speaker 2: three fifty. Yeah, it's I mean, sure there's some slow guys,
Speaker 2: but man, it's hard golf courses and it's a lot
Speaker 2: of dudes. It's really the problem.
Speaker 1: It's it's because the and to a certain extent, they're
Speaker 1: doctoring the courses to control the scoring.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, I mean the courses are really hard. That's
Speaker 2: a big that's a big, huge misconception on the tour
Speaker 2: because you flip on Golf Channel on Thursday at two
Speaker 2: in the afternoon and you're like, oh, so we shot
Speaker 2: eight hundred this morning. Yeah they did, But the golf
Speaker 2: courses are really hard, and that's you know, takes a
Speaker 2: while to play a hard golf course.
Speaker 3: So all right, I keep saying.
Speaker 1: Last question if you were the commissioner for a day,
Speaker 1: was like one change you make to the tour?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, I think that I don't know, I don't
Speaker 2: know one change, goodness, I would probably say that I
Speaker 2: would probably just shorten the season by five weeks. That's
Speaker 2: the only thing that would change.
Speaker 3: Yeah, have a little more of an off season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think nine. I think nine months
Speaker 2: is a good sports season, you know. Yeah, I think
Speaker 2: eleven is you know right now where it basically what
Speaker 2: a six week you know, off season. I think it's
Speaker 2: I think ten ten weeks off would probably be. I
Speaker 2: think nine months is probably good, you know. But hey,
Speaker 2: we're shortening it a little bit as far as like
Speaker 2: the fed X and then it just started earlier. So
Speaker 2: not really, but you know, I supposedly, like in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy eight there was forty eight events, so this isn't
Speaker 2: anything new. It's not like we're adding events. It's always
Speaker 2: been this way. That would be my one change.
Speaker 1: All right, the last one. One event that you have
Speaker 1: never played in worldwide. It could be that you want
Speaker 1: to play in.
Speaker 2: I would love to play in. I don't have to
Speaker 2: play in the match play. The tour events I've not
Speaker 2: played is just the match play in Kapalua, and I'd
Speaker 2: love to play the match play. I haven't played a
Speaker 2: lot of it, and I just think it'd be awesome.
Speaker 2: But the one tournament I'd want to go back and
Speaker 2: play again is the US Amateur. For some reason, I
Speaker 2: played in two of them, and that tournament, to me,
Speaker 2: I'd like if I had to just go back and
Speaker 2: play one more tournament and get one more crack at
Speaker 2: it, it would be that one I get another match play one.
Speaker 2: So maybe I'm you know, making an endorsement there.
Speaker 3: Hey, match play.
Speaker 1: John Pearson's going to be teeing up in the usam
Speaker 1: in like two years. Oh boy, him and me, we're
Speaker 1: the same. Oh boy, So you know you could still
Speaker 1: probably play in the us am You should just call
Speaker 1: off the USGA.
Speaker 2: Peterson what he played on the team with my brother
Speaker 2: at LSU. He's special.
Speaker 3: Yeah that's something. So that's but hey, thanks for the time.
Speaker 1: I think a lot of people have a new guy
Speaker 1: to root for on tour and we'll be, Uh, where
Speaker 1: do you kick off at?
Speaker 2: Sony No, I'm going to Palm Springs.
Speaker 1: Palm Springs, all right, the Hope, Yeah, it's a five rounder.
Speaker 2: The Desert nobody. I haven't seen any of you golf
Speaker 2: junkies do a do a good list of what tour
Speaker 2: guys call the tournaments, which I think is hysterical. When
Speaker 2: you're a rookie, you have to figure out where the
Speaker 2: hell everyone's playing because you're in the locker room. It's like, well,
Speaker 2: you planning coming up, They're like, oh, I'm doing the Desert.
Speaker 2: And then riv you know, like just the alternate names
Speaker 2: that all the tournaments have a great in my opinion.
Speaker 3: What's what's the what's the at and t you called?
Speaker 2: Well, I think if you're a real og you call
Speaker 2: it the clam bake, but now they just call it pebble.
Speaker 2: Everyone just called it pebble.
Speaker 3: Harbor Town's harbor Town, right.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, harbor Town. And then the Desert, to me
Speaker 2: is one of the real real tour lingo. Once you're
Speaker 2: playing the Desert, you'll be the Desert.
Speaker 3: What's Scottsdale?
Speaker 2: Uh, Phoenix, Phoenix, Phoenix?
Speaker 3: What about Sony Sony Sony?
Speaker 2: Yeah, in that way for a long time.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of interesting, Like the best I've always
Speaker 1: said this actually is the best courses. The the the
Speaker 1: lingo for the core for the tournament is the course same.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, like Honda is Honda, Memorial is Memorial Jack
Speaker 2: or Jack's Tournament, Yeah, Memorial Ay Hill. Yeah, there's some
Speaker 2: there's some good ones I'm not thinking of.
Speaker 3: But what about like Valero.
Speaker 2: I think that one's mostly San Antonio. Houston was always Houston. Yeah,
Speaker 2: most of the time, it's the city, but for some reason,
Speaker 2: sometimes it's the sponsor. I don't know why they.
Speaker 1: You got Detroit and you got many you got two
Speaker 1: new ones. I'm curious with those are going to be
Speaker 1: called probably just the city. That Detroit course is gonna
Speaker 1: be cool.
Speaker 3: It's not looking forward to both of those.
Speaker 2: It's a dream up there in the summer of those places.
Speaker 1: That's what boggles my mind is how often the tour
Speaker 1: goes to places like the worst time to go to them,
Speaker 1: like like this, like this Memphis event in the middle
Speaker 1: in the in the end of July.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that is a it's a head scratcher there because
Speaker 2: apparently the you know, FedEx like really wanted to upgrade
Speaker 2: their tournament. You know, they love Memphis, they love Saint Jude,
Speaker 2: which is understandable, but it's you know, it remains to
Speaker 2: be seen with how jam packed. The schedule is basically
Speaker 2: from like Augusta through the Tour Championship where the top
Speaker 2: players like maybe sneak a week off and but it
Speaker 2: goes straight from the British to the you know, four
Speaker 2: hundred degree heat of Memphis, nor.
Speaker 1: Northern Ireland to UH Royal part Rush to to TPC
Speaker 1: south Wind in July.
Speaker 2: I love that tournament. That's a sneaky like tournament. People
Speaker 2: are like, what are your favorites? Memphis is a great tournament.
Speaker 2: The course is really cool, and the people are so nice,
Speaker 2: and the Saint Jude factor is you know, makes it.
Speaker 2: It's really a great tournament. So hopefully they get there.
Speaker 2: You know, all top fifty or whatever play there.
Speaker 1: It's fascinating, you know. Uh, I'm a huge NBA fan
Speaker 1: and uh nice. All the NBA writers and people are
Speaker 1: always talking about how they love going to Memphis. Like
Speaker 1: when Memphis was good with with Gasol, Marc Gasol and
Speaker 1: and Zebo, they were all everybody was like so excited
Speaker 1: that the playoff series were in Memphis, like because they
Speaker 1: it's it's interesting that you're like, you know, you confirm
Speaker 1: that Memphis is a good spot, so all right. Well, hey,
Speaker 1: thanks for the time. We'll keep in touch. Maybe we'll
Speaker 1: get you on another in mid season or something.
Speaker 2: All right, cool, have a going all right, thanks man,