1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:21,756 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I get to interview a lot of great people 2 00:00:21,796 --> 00:00:24,196 Speaker 1: for this podcast, but one of the guests I was 3 00:00:24,276 --> 00:00:26,756 Speaker 1: most excited to talk to was a rather modest and 4 00:00:26,796 --> 00:00:30,596 Speaker 1: self effacing British writer named Tom Hodgkinson. What was Tom 5 00:00:30,636 --> 00:00:33,636 Speaker 1: famous for. Well, he's made a name for himself by 6 00:00:33,676 --> 00:00:36,596 Speaker 1: trying not to do well much of anything. I think 7 00:00:36,876 --> 00:00:40,236 Speaker 1: I was born fairly idle. I always had a strong 8 00:00:40,556 --> 00:00:44,076 Speaker 1: will towards idling. I'm a huge fan of Tom's books 9 00:00:44,116 --> 00:00:46,756 Speaker 1: on being idol. They're clever and funny. But I came 10 00:00:46,796 --> 00:00:50,356 Speaker 1: to Tom's work because idling. This philosophy that we should 11 00:00:50,356 --> 00:00:53,436 Speaker 1: devote time to not being productive, is something I find 12 00:00:53,476 --> 00:00:55,876 Speaker 1: super hard to do. When I sat down with Tom 13 00:00:55,916 --> 00:00:58,596 Speaker 1: for an episode called for Whom the Alarm Clock Tolls, 14 00:00:58,876 --> 00:01:00,836 Speaker 1: I was struck by the fact that his fear of 15 00:01:00,916 --> 00:01:04,716 Speaker 1: overwork informs the entire way he sees the world. Take 16 00:01:04,796 --> 00:01:07,876 Speaker 1: Tom's view on the novelist George Orwell. Many of us 17 00:01:07,916 --> 00:01:11,356 Speaker 1: think of Orwell for his warnings about political repression, but 18 00:01:11,436 --> 00:01:14,716 Speaker 1: Tom focuses on a different tyranny, an animal farm. We 19 00:01:14,796 --> 00:01:17,676 Speaker 1: had the example of the horse boxer, who, when faced 20 00:01:17,716 --> 00:01:22,316 Speaker 1: with a problem, work harder, work harder, until he works 21 00:01:22,396 --> 00:01:24,956 Speaker 1: himself into an early grade. He's taken off to the 22 00:01:24,996 --> 00:01:27,876 Speaker 1: glue factory. Now that to me is that's a warning. 23 00:01:28,556 --> 00:01:30,796 Speaker 1: Since talking to Tom last season, I've thought more and 24 00:01:30,836 --> 00:01:33,636 Speaker 1: more about the importance of idling when life gets stressful. 25 00:01:33,796 --> 00:01:36,316 Speaker 1: My temptation is always to be like Boxer and just 26 00:01:36,436 --> 00:01:39,236 Speaker 1: do more. I mean, these days everyone talks about being 27 00:01:39,316 --> 00:01:42,876 Speaker 1: fully committed or redoubling your efforts or giving one hundred 28 00:01:42,876 --> 00:01:45,396 Speaker 1: and ten percent. It can feel like heresy to say, 29 00:01:45,476 --> 00:01:48,076 Speaker 1: you know what, I might be happier doing a bit less. 30 00:01:48,996 --> 00:01:50,996 Speaker 1: But as I was gathering ideas for this series on 31 00:01:51,036 --> 00:01:53,956 Speaker 1: the Ancients, I realized that Tom's plea for more idling 32 00:01:54,116 --> 00:01:58,356 Speaker 1: fits well with the teachings of an important ancient Chinese philosopher, Loutsa. 33 00:01:59,916 --> 00:02:02,276 Speaker 1: Lotza argued that we should look to nature for our 34 00:02:02,316 --> 00:02:05,476 Speaker 1: happiness inspiration. While we often talk about putting in one 35 00:02:05,556 --> 00:02:08,356 Speaker 1: hundred and ten percent, Latsa thought that the sweet spot 36 00:02:08,476 --> 00:02:11,116 Speaker 1: was much less. He thought we should live life at 37 00:02:11,156 --> 00:02:16,276 Speaker 1: about so welcome to Happiness Lessons of the Ancients with me, 38 00:02:16,596 --> 00:02:27,476 Speaker 1: Doctor Laurie Santos. When you think about the wisdom of 39 00:02:27,476 --> 00:02:30,876 Speaker 1: the ancients, Lautza is exactly the sort of philosopher that 40 00:02:30,916 --> 00:02:34,516 Speaker 1: comes to mind. His Daoist ideas are the very antithesis 41 00:02:34,556 --> 00:02:38,316 Speaker 1: of our hectic twenty four seven modern culture. Instead of 42 00:02:38,356 --> 00:02:41,956 Speaker 1: the ping of calendar alerts and smartphone notifications and the 43 00:02:42,076 --> 00:02:46,956 Speaker 1: hurry and rush and demands and deadlines, Daoism is about 44 00:02:47,116 --> 00:02:51,796 Speaker 1: calm and quiet and steadiness, like the waters of a 45 00:02:51,836 --> 00:02:59,596 Speaker 1: broad river running slowly through a wooded valley. Part of 46 00:02:59,596 --> 00:03:02,116 Speaker 1: why I think of Taoism is such a calming influence 47 00:03:02,476 --> 00:03:04,396 Speaker 1: is that I first learned about it on the inside 48 00:03:04,396 --> 00:03:07,356 Speaker 1: time or meditation app when I was listening to Solala 49 00:03:07,436 --> 00:03:11,676 Speaker 1: Tower's course called Tao Principles for a Prosperous Life. Thou 50 00:03:11,756 --> 00:03:14,996 Speaker 1: that can be spoken is not the true and eternal Dao. 51 00:03:16,156 --> 00:03:18,636 Speaker 1: Names that can be named are not the true and 52 00:03:18,756 --> 00:03:23,716 Speaker 1: eternal names. Just hearing Salala makes me relax and unclenched 53 00:03:23,756 --> 00:03:26,636 Speaker 1: from the stresses of my life. Non being is the 54 00:03:26,636 --> 00:03:30,876 Speaker 1: origin of heaven and earth. Being is the mother of 55 00:03:30,916 --> 00:03:35,476 Speaker 1: the ten thousand beings. Juan Wu. So I thought I'd 56 00:03:35,476 --> 00:03:37,396 Speaker 1: reach out and ask him to be our final guest 57 00:03:37,516 --> 00:03:40,156 Speaker 1: on this season of happiness Lessons of the Ancients, and 58 00:03:40,236 --> 00:03:42,716 Speaker 1: to guide us all through Lutz's work and the story 59 00:03:42,716 --> 00:03:47,316 Speaker 1: of Taoism. It's at least five thousand years old, and 60 00:03:47,636 --> 00:03:51,716 Speaker 1: it was developed slowly over time, and the most important 61 00:03:51,756 --> 00:03:56,156 Speaker 1: and famous book from Taoisms that thou Ching, was written 62 00:03:56,196 --> 00:03:59,716 Speaker 1: by a character named Laotze, and today it is the 63 00:03:59,756 --> 00:04:03,476 Speaker 1: second most widely translated book in the world after the Bible, 64 00:04:03,956 --> 00:04:06,356 Speaker 1: so basically it's been a best seller for twenty five 65 00:04:06,436 --> 00:04:09,636 Speaker 1: hundred years. Lautsa talks a lot about the different between 66 00:04:09,716 --> 00:04:14,636 Speaker 1: head knowledge or intellectual knowledge, and belly knowledge, gut knowledge, 67 00:04:14,796 --> 00:04:19,276 Speaker 1: and that he really emphasizes gut knowledge overhead knowledge. And 68 00:04:19,356 --> 00:04:23,756 Speaker 1: so Daoism actually contributed an enormous amount to what we 69 00:04:23,836 --> 00:04:28,356 Speaker 1: think of today is Chinese culture. Things like meditation, fung 70 00:04:28,476 --> 00:04:35,156 Speaker 1: hui chi gong taiji, Daoist yoga called Daoian painting, calligraphy, music, 71 00:04:35,556 --> 00:04:38,276 Speaker 1: all these kinds of things Chinese medicine have their roots 72 00:04:38,316 --> 00:04:41,756 Speaker 1: in Daoism. And for many many years, Daoism was more 73 00:04:41,916 --> 00:04:44,916 Speaker 1: what we call a philosophy what today is called dao 74 00:04:45,116 --> 00:04:48,996 Speaker 1: ja And then about six hundred years after Laotz's book, 75 00:04:49,116 --> 00:04:53,156 Speaker 1: a Daoist religion was formed called dao Joe, and today 76 00:04:53,196 --> 00:04:56,156 Speaker 1: in China there are many temples and priests and nuns 77 00:04:56,196 --> 00:04:59,796 Speaker 1: and liturgy, but I think for most people in the 78 00:04:59,876 --> 00:05:02,436 Speaker 1: West who are interested in Daoism are more interested in 79 00:05:02,476 --> 00:05:05,756 Speaker 1: what we call the dao Ja or the philosophical Taoism, 80 00:05:05,836 --> 00:05:10,156 Speaker 1: which incorporates these practices like chigong in meditation and really 81 00:05:10,196 --> 00:05:14,396 Speaker 1: basically advice on how to live a prosperous and happy life. 82 00:05:15,076 --> 00:05:17,596 Speaker 1: And so one of the interesting things about the Doubt 83 00:05:17,596 --> 00:05:22,636 Speaker 1: teaching is that Lautza, the author isn't really a particular person, right. 84 00:05:23,956 --> 00:05:27,076 Speaker 1: Historians argue about this. Scholars argue about this all the time. 85 00:05:27,076 --> 00:05:31,396 Speaker 1: Traditionally in China is believed that one guy, by the way, 86 00:05:31,516 --> 00:05:34,236 Speaker 1: is not his actual name. Lautsa means the old master, 87 00:05:34,636 --> 00:05:40,116 Speaker 1: and the character for master also means child, so sometimes 88 00:05:40,156 --> 00:05:42,436 Speaker 1: you'll see his name translated as the old child or 89 00:05:42,516 --> 00:05:45,076 Speaker 1: the old boy. But the story is that he was 90 00:05:45,556 --> 00:05:48,636 Speaker 1: a high official in the court and the Joe dynasty 91 00:05:48,916 --> 00:05:52,116 Speaker 1: and saw that China was entering what historians called the 92 00:05:52,636 --> 00:05:56,676 Speaker 1: Warring States period and society was basically falling apart. He 93 00:05:56,716 --> 00:05:59,596 Speaker 1: decided to drop out, and he was on his way 94 00:05:59,636 --> 00:06:02,996 Speaker 1: out to the wilderness of western China when the last 95 00:06:03,116 --> 00:06:06,996 Speaker 1: gatekeeper before the Worlderness implored him to please write down 96 00:06:06,996 --> 00:06:09,636 Speaker 1: some of his teachings and the story is that he 97 00:06:09,836 --> 00:06:12,476 Speaker 1: didn't want to do that. Once you take the story 98 00:06:12,636 --> 00:06:16,196 Speaker 1: or the teaching and imprison it on the page, then 99 00:06:16,236 --> 00:06:20,276 Speaker 1: it doesn't get to change. Solusa finally came around to 100 00:06:20,396 --> 00:06:23,156 Speaker 1: writing this very short book, but the very first line 101 00:06:23,156 --> 00:06:25,156 Speaker 1: of the book says, the Tao that can be written 102 00:06:25,196 --> 00:06:28,396 Speaker 1: about or spoken about or put in a little box 103 00:06:28,876 --> 00:06:31,676 Speaker 1: is not the real Tao. So I think it's fascinating 104 00:06:31,716 --> 00:06:33,636 Speaker 1: that the very first line of the book is telling 105 00:06:33,716 --> 00:06:35,676 Speaker 1: us that what you're going to read in this book 106 00:06:35,756 --> 00:06:38,836 Speaker 1: is not the real Tao, but hopefully my words will 107 00:06:38,916 --> 00:06:41,596 Speaker 1: point towards something that you can use in your life. 108 00:06:41,796 --> 00:06:43,516 Speaker 1: I think one of the cool things about the Tao 109 00:06:43,676 --> 00:06:46,756 Speaker 1: is that it's about kind of how we behave in life. 110 00:06:46,996 --> 00:06:49,796 Speaker 1: But in some ways the Tao is interesting because mostly 111 00:06:49,796 --> 00:06:51,916 Speaker 1: a focus on how we shouldn't be behavioring or what 112 00:06:51,916 --> 00:06:54,876 Speaker 1: we should not be doing. Right. Yeah, it's you know. 113 00:06:54,876 --> 00:06:57,276 Speaker 1: One of the main principles of Daoism is called uwei, 114 00:06:57,476 --> 00:07:01,516 Speaker 1: which translated directing into English, means not doing, But what 115 00:07:01,556 --> 00:07:07,236 Speaker 1: it means is not overdoing, not overextending, not trying to 116 00:07:07,316 --> 00:07:11,396 Speaker 1: force things to happen, and really just being sensitive enough 117 00:07:11,436 --> 00:07:15,556 Speaker 1: to the currents of life that you can position yourself 118 00:07:15,916 --> 00:07:20,356 Speaker 1: so things can naturally be created and can naturally flow. 119 00:07:20,756 --> 00:07:22,356 Speaker 1: And so this seems to be part of a broader 120 00:07:22,396 --> 00:07:25,116 Speaker 1: concept because the idea of uway, as I understand it, 121 00:07:25,196 --> 00:07:27,636 Speaker 1: is it's really kind of tied to going along with 122 00:07:27,756 --> 00:07:32,076 Speaker 1: nature to some important sense. Right, Yes, yes, Traditionally daoisto 123 00:07:32,116 --> 00:07:35,116 Speaker 1: felic nature is the best teacher. It was until much 124 00:07:35,196 --> 00:07:38,956 Speaker 1: later centuries that more emphasis was put on texts, but 125 00:07:39,036 --> 00:07:43,116 Speaker 1: originally it was about living in nature and observing nature 126 00:07:43,516 --> 00:07:45,756 Speaker 1: and finding a way for us to flow in what 127 00:07:45,796 --> 00:07:49,116 Speaker 1: we call the watercourse way, so that instead of trying 128 00:07:49,196 --> 00:07:51,756 Speaker 1: to push against the currental of the time and force 129 00:07:51,876 --> 00:07:54,636 Speaker 1: things to happen and be so upset and sad and 130 00:07:54,676 --> 00:07:57,756 Speaker 1: depressed when things don't seem to be happening the way 131 00:07:57,796 --> 00:08:00,836 Speaker 1: we wish they were, we can be okay with how 132 00:08:00,876 --> 00:08:04,476 Speaker 1: things really are working, and we can find our way 133 00:08:04,956 --> 00:08:08,476 Speaker 1: to enter that current of dao so that what we create, 134 00:08:08,636 --> 00:08:11,516 Speaker 1: what we experience in our life is something that is 135 00:08:11,636 --> 00:08:15,756 Speaker 1: very healing and very natural. The term in Daoism for 136 00:08:16,036 --> 00:08:19,996 Speaker 1: an enlightened person or a self realized person is general, 137 00:08:20,396 --> 00:08:25,276 Speaker 1: which means authentic person. So people who are authentically themselves, 138 00:08:25,276 --> 00:08:28,916 Speaker 1: who know who they are authentically and then can express 139 00:08:28,996 --> 00:08:34,396 Speaker 1: themselves authentically. That's considered a very high level person. In Daoism. 140 00:08:34,436 --> 00:08:37,636 Speaker 1: We don't look to some sort of personalized deity to 141 00:08:37,916 --> 00:08:40,836 Speaker 1: free ourselves. We need to find a way to free 142 00:08:40,876 --> 00:08:44,956 Speaker 1: ourselves by ourselves. And one feature of that freedom seems 143 00:08:44,956 --> 00:08:47,236 Speaker 1: to be like not going to the extreme, like not 144 00:08:47,356 --> 00:08:50,676 Speaker 1: pushing yourself past your natural boundaries, or not pushing yourself 145 00:08:50,716 --> 00:08:53,116 Speaker 1: to the point of burnout. But what's interesting is I 146 00:08:53,116 --> 00:08:55,596 Speaker 1: feel like this is really countercultural right now, Like you know, 147 00:08:55,636 --> 00:08:58,436 Speaker 1: it feels like everyone in modern culture is kind of 148 00:08:58,436 --> 00:09:01,236 Speaker 1: pushing themselves past the breaking point. But that was almost 149 00:09:01,276 --> 00:09:05,156 Speaker 1: explicitly prohibited, right Yes. In Thaism, we have this tradition 150 00:09:05,196 --> 00:09:08,756 Speaker 1: of eighty percent, never eat until you're more than eighty percent, 151 00:09:09,556 --> 00:09:12,916 Speaker 1: don't push yourself or work especially physically or even on 152 00:09:12,956 --> 00:09:16,716 Speaker 1: the computer, really beyond eighty percent of your capacity, because 153 00:09:16,756 --> 00:09:19,876 Speaker 1: the more you stuff yourself with food that you can't digest, 154 00:09:20,076 --> 00:09:23,236 Speaker 1: the more hours you spend on the computer or even 155 00:09:23,276 --> 00:09:26,956 Speaker 1: in a physical labor job, the easier you burn out. 156 00:09:27,116 --> 00:09:29,916 Speaker 1: And that was him in Chinese culture in general really 157 00:09:29,956 --> 00:09:32,956 Speaker 1: respects the long life and these practices that we do, 158 00:09:32,996 --> 00:09:37,116 Speaker 1: these Chee goong and meditation practices are called long life practices, 159 00:09:37,356 --> 00:09:39,156 Speaker 1: and that seems to fit with one of the passages 160 00:09:39,196 --> 00:09:41,276 Speaker 1: you talked about a lot in your Insight time or course. 161 00:09:41,316 --> 00:09:43,756 Speaker 1: I think the passage was something like, it's better to 162 00:09:43,836 --> 00:09:46,396 Speaker 1: leave a vessel unfilled than to attempt to carry it 163 00:09:46,396 --> 00:09:48,676 Speaker 1: when it's full. Kind of walk me through this analogy, 164 00:09:48,676 --> 00:09:50,676 Speaker 1: because I think it seems to get at this idea 165 00:09:50,676 --> 00:09:54,316 Speaker 1: of not going overboard. Well, on one side, it's overfilling 166 00:09:54,316 --> 00:09:57,436 Speaker 1: a vessel. Things end up just spilling everywhere. So trying 167 00:09:57,436 --> 00:10:02,516 Speaker 1: to overfill your life by putting too many activities, extending 168 00:10:02,556 --> 00:10:05,716 Speaker 1: yourself in too many different directions, then you end up 169 00:10:05,716 --> 00:10:09,556 Speaker 1: actually losing energy. Where if you keep to a more 170 00:10:09,876 --> 00:10:12,916 Speaker 1: sort of middle way, you can get things done but 171 00:10:12,956 --> 00:10:15,796 Speaker 1: you don't burn out. And people think, well, if I 172 00:10:15,876 --> 00:10:18,756 Speaker 1: just keep going longer and longer and longer and get 173 00:10:18,756 --> 00:10:21,596 Speaker 1: this project better and better and better, and then when 174 00:10:21,636 --> 00:10:24,316 Speaker 1: they're finally done, often they just collapse, or they may 175 00:10:24,356 --> 00:10:27,596 Speaker 1: even collapse before the project is even done. So we 176 00:10:27,676 --> 00:10:30,396 Speaker 1: want to keep a balance. This is the whole Yeen 177 00:10:30,516 --> 00:10:33,596 Speaker 1: young thing, you know, the balance of young energy, which 178 00:10:33,636 --> 00:10:38,836 Speaker 1: is very expansive, fiery outward projecting energy and yeen energy, 179 00:10:38,876 --> 00:10:42,436 Speaker 1: which is very inward RESTful kind of energy. That we 180 00:10:42,556 --> 00:10:45,196 Speaker 1: find a way to balance those two so we're not 181 00:10:45,476 --> 00:10:48,836 Speaker 1: either going too far out or we're not pulling back 182 00:10:48,876 --> 00:10:51,596 Speaker 1: too much. And this can vary from person to person, 183 00:10:51,636 --> 00:10:54,796 Speaker 1: because some people are more fiery and can go out 184 00:10:54,796 --> 00:10:56,836 Speaker 1: in the world and get a lot done, or other 185 00:10:56,876 --> 00:11:01,556 Speaker 1: people are more reflective and may even compare themselves with 186 00:11:01,596 --> 00:11:03,716 Speaker 1: the other person and say, look how much they're doing 187 00:11:03,756 --> 00:11:05,876 Speaker 1: and I'm not getting anything done. There must be something 188 00:11:05,876 --> 00:11:09,116 Speaker 1: wrong with me. That was really respects that everyone has 189 00:11:09,156 --> 00:11:11,956 Speaker 1: their own way of being and doing in the world. 190 00:11:12,116 --> 00:11:14,836 Speaker 1: And also sometimes we need to move in a young 191 00:11:14,916 --> 00:11:17,916 Speaker 1: direction to get projects done, and then other times we 192 00:11:17,956 --> 00:11:22,396 Speaker 1: need to be more reflective. And this can happen over years, days, 193 00:11:22,516 --> 00:11:25,436 Speaker 1: or even in one day. Yeah, I think another one 194 00:11:25,476 --> 00:11:27,876 Speaker 1: of the passages that speaks to this, those who stand 195 00:11:27,876 --> 00:11:30,836 Speaker 1: on tiptoe don't stand firm, and those who rush ahead 196 00:11:30,876 --> 00:11:33,956 Speaker 1: don't go far. Yeah. If the metaphors, you're standing on 197 00:11:33,996 --> 00:11:37,276 Speaker 1: tiptoe so that you can seem taller and bigger and 198 00:11:37,676 --> 00:11:40,756 Speaker 1: better than other people, but you can easily lose your 199 00:11:40,756 --> 00:11:44,316 Speaker 1: balance that way, and someone who's rushing forward to try 200 00:11:44,356 --> 00:11:47,716 Speaker 1: to get ahead of everyone. They also lose energy. The 201 00:11:47,836 --> 00:11:51,596 Speaker 1: Daoists talk about leading from behind the teacher, the high 202 00:11:51,676 --> 00:11:55,236 Speaker 1: level teacher, and dodging is described as the person who 203 00:11:55,276 --> 00:11:58,596 Speaker 1: teaches without words. And the one other phrase that I 204 00:11:58,676 --> 00:12:02,916 Speaker 1: love is the sage returns people to their childlike hearts. 205 00:12:03,236 --> 00:12:05,236 Speaker 1: And so talk a little bit about this childlike idea 206 00:12:05,276 --> 00:12:08,356 Speaker 1: because I think that's so important, especially since Lutza in 207 00:12:08,396 --> 00:12:10,956 Speaker 1: some ways mean like a master child in some sense, 208 00:12:11,036 --> 00:12:14,316 Speaker 1: right yeah, old child. Loud means old and it means 209 00:12:14,356 --> 00:12:17,796 Speaker 1: master or a child, So sometimes his name is translated 210 00:12:17,796 --> 00:12:19,836 Speaker 1: as the old boy or the old child. And of 211 00:12:19,876 --> 00:12:22,516 Speaker 1: course he talks, just like in the Bible when they 212 00:12:22,516 --> 00:12:25,596 Speaker 1: talk about becoming as a child to enter the kingdom, 213 00:12:26,836 --> 00:12:29,556 Speaker 1: talks and drunk. So who's the next most important teacher 214 00:12:29,556 --> 00:12:35,076 Speaker 1: after Lautza? About having those childlike qualities of joy, of flexibility, 215 00:12:35,356 --> 00:12:39,956 Speaker 1: of excitement, excitement about learning new things, experiencing new things, 216 00:12:40,436 --> 00:12:43,076 Speaker 1: He says, when the plant is young, it is very 217 00:12:43,156 --> 00:12:45,996 Speaker 1: flexible and can bend. But as the plant gets old, 218 00:12:46,076 --> 00:12:49,676 Speaker 1: it gets dry and brittle and breaks easily. And as 219 00:12:49,756 --> 00:12:53,036 Speaker 1: we age, it is very important to keep that childlike feeling, 220 00:12:53,276 --> 00:12:57,436 Speaker 1: that flexibility of a new plant, so that as we 221 00:12:57,516 --> 00:13:00,956 Speaker 1: get older in our bodies, in our hearts, and especially 222 00:13:00,956 --> 00:13:04,276 Speaker 1: in our minds, we don't start shutting down and becoming 223 00:13:04,396 --> 00:13:08,276 Speaker 1: brittle and dried up, so that we keep that excitement 224 00:13:08,316 --> 00:13:11,636 Speaker 1: of adventure in her life throughout our life. And this 225 00:13:11,676 --> 00:13:13,636 Speaker 1: is so perfect because it really connects with what the 226 00:13:13,676 --> 00:13:16,996 Speaker 1: modern science is saying about how to stay happier right now. 227 00:13:17,076 --> 00:13:19,476 Speaker 1: In the happiness science work, there's a lot of emphasis 228 00:13:19,476 --> 00:13:22,476 Speaker 1: on what's called time affluence, right, just this idea that 229 00:13:22,516 --> 00:13:26,196 Speaker 1: we feel like bountiful in time, like really wealthy in time. 230 00:13:26,476 --> 00:13:28,836 Speaker 1: And it seems like that's exactly what the Tao is 231 00:13:28,876 --> 00:13:31,836 Speaker 1: really suggesting that by going with nature, by not trying 232 00:13:31,836 --> 00:13:35,076 Speaker 1: to squeeze too much in, you get back some free time, 233 00:13:35,116 --> 00:13:36,876 Speaker 1: and that that in and of itself might be the 234 00:13:36,956 --> 00:13:40,396 Speaker 1: key to happiness. Yes, another big concept in a doubt 235 00:13:40,516 --> 00:13:44,396 Speaker 1: uching is about an empty vessel. The cop or bowl 236 00:13:44,836 --> 00:13:47,636 Speaker 1: is useful because of its emptiness. If it was just 237 00:13:47,676 --> 00:13:50,516 Speaker 1: a solid block of wood or clay, it wouldn't be useful, 238 00:13:50,836 --> 00:13:55,396 Speaker 1: justlike the openings or windows and doorways are so useful 239 00:13:55,596 --> 00:13:58,556 Speaker 1: and it's really in their emptiness that makes them useful 240 00:13:58,556 --> 00:14:01,596 Speaker 1: and special. But it's so hard to stop sometimes that 241 00:14:01,716 --> 00:14:04,356 Speaker 1: you think I'll just do a little more, and suddenly 242 00:14:04,396 --> 00:14:06,356 Speaker 1: you collapse and have to take a whole week off, 243 00:14:06,556 --> 00:14:08,676 Speaker 1: or if you had gone slower, you might have been 244 00:14:08,756 --> 00:14:12,476 Speaker 1: a little or through the whole week. And this childlike heart, 245 00:14:12,556 --> 00:14:15,516 Speaker 1: I think is a real key to happiness in Dellism. 246 00:14:15,516 --> 00:14:19,516 Speaker 1: You know that idea that the more we keep ourselves 247 00:14:19,596 --> 00:14:23,716 Speaker 1: open to learning new things, to experiencing new things without 248 00:14:23,836 --> 00:14:27,316 Speaker 1: judgment or criticism, but just seeing where is this going 249 00:14:27,396 --> 00:14:29,556 Speaker 1: to go? Where is this going to take me? You know, 250 00:14:29,596 --> 00:14:31,716 Speaker 1: a lot of us have the experience in our life 251 00:14:31,756 --> 00:14:34,116 Speaker 1: and you know this is almost a cliche, but people 252 00:14:34,156 --> 00:14:36,476 Speaker 1: get sick, they get in a terrible car accident, they 253 00:14:36,476 --> 00:14:39,956 Speaker 1: get cancer, they get very close to death's door, and 254 00:14:39,996 --> 00:14:42,476 Speaker 1: when they come through that, they suddenly have a whole 255 00:14:42,516 --> 00:14:46,076 Speaker 1: new lease on life and they suddenly are enjoying and 256 00:14:46,156 --> 00:14:49,356 Speaker 1: feeling exuberant about things that they never perhaps even paid 257 00:14:49,396 --> 00:14:52,836 Speaker 1: attention to before. And the idea is that we don't 258 00:14:52,876 --> 00:14:55,436 Speaker 1: have to go to death's door. We don't have to 259 00:14:55,436 --> 00:14:58,556 Speaker 1: get cancer, or have a terrible accident or have some 260 00:14:58,916 --> 00:15:02,396 Speaker 1: really traumatic thing happened to us. We can decide right 261 00:15:02,436 --> 00:15:05,156 Speaker 1: now that we're going to follow that path, the path 262 00:15:05,236 --> 00:15:09,636 Speaker 1: of lease, resistance of the flow, the watercourse way, and 263 00:15:10,396 --> 00:15:13,556 Speaker 1: we're going to keep that innocent air about us, the 264 00:15:13,636 --> 00:15:16,596 Speaker 1: innocent childlike nature, because we all have it, but it's 265 00:15:16,676 --> 00:15:20,316 Speaker 1: suppressed as we grow older and older. Right, that's actually 266 00:15:20,356 --> 00:15:23,116 Speaker 1: a wonderful transition, because I think one of the things 267 00:15:23,116 --> 00:15:25,636 Speaker 1: we want to discuss next is how we can get 268 00:15:25,636 --> 00:15:27,636 Speaker 1: back that flow to life, how we can follow the 269 00:15:27,636 --> 00:15:29,916 Speaker 1: water course way. And we'll do that when the happiness 270 00:15:29,956 --> 00:15:44,556 Speaker 1: lad returns in a moment. Lots of metaphors get thrown 271 00:15:44,596 --> 00:15:47,196 Speaker 1: around to tell us how to act when life inevitably 272 00:15:47,236 --> 00:15:50,156 Speaker 1: gets tough. We might get told to be aggressive like 273 00:15:50,196 --> 00:15:53,276 Speaker 1: a wild animal and sink our teeth in. We might 274 00:15:53,316 --> 00:15:55,796 Speaker 1: be told to take on the resilient qualities of steel 275 00:15:55,916 --> 00:15:59,396 Speaker 1: and to become hard as nails. Daoism uses a very 276 00:15:59,396 --> 00:16:03,196 Speaker 1: different metaphor, one that's a lot gentler. Daoism tells you 277 00:16:03,276 --> 00:16:07,156 Speaker 1: to be more like water. The waterway path or the 278 00:16:07,236 --> 00:16:12,636 Speaker 1: water course way is how to find yourself in the 279 00:16:12,716 --> 00:16:17,036 Speaker 1: flow of what the flow naturally is, and that flow 280 00:16:17,116 --> 00:16:19,956 Speaker 1: can change from time to time, from day to day, 281 00:16:19,956 --> 00:16:22,796 Speaker 1: from moment to moment even and so how do we 282 00:16:23,156 --> 00:16:26,436 Speaker 1: know what the flow is and where can we find 283 00:16:26,476 --> 00:16:30,636 Speaker 1: our place in that flow. And over the centuries, the 284 00:16:30,756 --> 00:16:35,756 Speaker 1: Daoists have created these practices like chegong, different kinds of meditation, 285 00:16:36,316 --> 00:16:40,036 Speaker 1: and we call them self cultivation practices because it's like 286 00:16:40,196 --> 00:16:43,756 Speaker 1: we're planting a garden, and we're planting these seeds of 287 00:16:43,796 --> 00:16:46,316 Speaker 1: what we want to accomplish, of who we want to 288 00:16:46,356 --> 00:16:48,996 Speaker 1: be and how we want to express ourselves in the world, 289 00:16:49,556 --> 00:16:53,516 Speaker 1: and then we tenderly tend these sprouts as they grow 290 00:16:53,636 --> 00:16:57,596 Speaker 1: up into beautiful plants, perhaps even trees, and then we 291 00:16:57,716 --> 00:17:00,796 Speaker 1: get to enjoy the fruits of our labor. And in 292 00:17:00,876 --> 00:17:03,916 Speaker 1: self cultivation practice, it's not that someone is going to 293 00:17:03,996 --> 00:17:06,276 Speaker 1: tell you what to do, so we have to find 294 00:17:06,316 --> 00:17:09,956 Speaker 1: what works for us and not compare ourselves to others. 295 00:17:10,276 --> 00:17:12,276 Speaker 1: And that seems to really get at this idea of 296 00:17:12,316 --> 00:17:15,996 Speaker 1: the water course way right, because water is constantly moving, 297 00:17:16,116 --> 00:17:18,076 Speaker 1: right like, it's never kind of stopped and it's achieved 298 00:17:18,116 --> 00:17:20,596 Speaker 1: its goal. It's kind of constantly moving, and it's kind 299 00:17:20,596 --> 00:17:23,716 Speaker 1: of constantly moving into places that some people might reject, 300 00:17:23,876 --> 00:17:27,196 Speaker 1: right exactly. And not only that, but sometimes say the 301 00:17:27,196 --> 00:17:30,516 Speaker 1: water is coming downstream and we're sort of floating merrily 302 00:17:30,556 --> 00:17:33,596 Speaker 1: along with the water of our life and suddenly we 303 00:17:33,716 --> 00:17:36,476 Speaker 1: hit a beaver dam or a log or something something 304 00:17:36,516 --> 00:17:39,996 Speaker 1: that stops the water. Now, just like we're that person 305 00:17:40,116 --> 00:17:42,596 Speaker 1: or where that water. We can get very upset and 306 00:17:42,596 --> 00:17:45,196 Speaker 1: we can try to bash your way through the obstruction, 307 00:17:45,676 --> 00:17:48,276 Speaker 1: but that way we lose a lot of energy and 308 00:17:48,316 --> 00:17:50,716 Speaker 1: we don't get anything done. We may even harm ourselves. 309 00:17:50,836 --> 00:17:53,596 Speaker 1: And the idea is when we feel we're in an obstruction, 310 00:17:54,036 --> 00:17:56,916 Speaker 1: the best thing to do is be quiet and wait, 311 00:17:57,156 --> 00:18:00,076 Speaker 1: because eventually that water is going to rise and go 312 00:18:00,196 --> 00:18:03,436 Speaker 1: over the obstruction. And so the less energy we spend 313 00:18:03,476 --> 00:18:05,796 Speaker 1: trying to bash your way through it, and the more 314 00:18:05,836 --> 00:18:10,356 Speaker 1: we are quiet and just let the energy grow of itself. 315 00:18:10,756 --> 00:18:14,876 Speaker 1: There's a termin Taoism called curan, which means something that 316 00:18:15,276 --> 00:18:21,156 Speaker 1: occurs spontaneously, sometimes translated as of itself. So and not 317 00:18:21,236 --> 00:18:24,276 Speaker 1: only will I be happier doing that, but I will 318 00:18:24,636 --> 00:18:27,916 Speaker 1: if not being more successful, at least being good with 319 00:18:27,956 --> 00:18:30,596 Speaker 1: what is instead of what we wish was. And that 320 00:18:30,596 --> 00:18:32,956 Speaker 1: seems like part of the thing that we're using this 321 00:18:33,036 --> 00:18:35,716 Speaker 1: water course way a metaphor to explain, right, this is 322 00:18:35,756 --> 00:18:37,916 Speaker 1: this idea that water just kind of deals with whatever 323 00:18:37,956 --> 00:18:41,236 Speaker 1: circumstances it finds itself in. Right, Yes, if it's a 324 00:18:41,556 --> 00:18:43,916 Speaker 1: you know, put it in a round container, it becomes round, 325 00:18:43,996 --> 00:18:47,596 Speaker 1: and a square container becomes square. It just does so naturally, 326 00:18:47,716 --> 00:18:50,516 Speaker 1: and it doesn't lose anything of its real nature. You 327 00:18:50,556 --> 00:18:52,916 Speaker 1: can freeze it, you can boil it, you know, you 328 00:18:52,916 --> 00:18:56,956 Speaker 1: can put salt in it. The water always retains its 329 00:18:56,996 --> 00:18:59,756 Speaker 1: own nature. Just like when we find ourselves in a 330 00:18:59,836 --> 00:19:03,996 Speaker 1: square container or a situation that we're not that comfortable in, 331 00:19:04,276 --> 00:19:07,116 Speaker 1: we can find a way to flow with that. We 332 00:19:07,156 --> 00:19:10,076 Speaker 1: can find a way to take whatever shape we need 333 00:19:10,116 --> 00:19:13,996 Speaker 1: to in that moment and still remain authentically ourselves, just 334 00:19:14,036 --> 00:19:17,556 Speaker 1: like water remains itself no matter what condition it's in. 335 00:19:17,956 --> 00:19:21,196 Speaker 1: And of course we know that water very patiently and 336 00:19:21,276 --> 00:19:24,716 Speaker 1: slowly over time can carve through mountains and create the 337 00:19:24,756 --> 00:19:28,596 Speaker 1: Grand Canyon. So Lautsa says, there's nothing softer than water. 338 00:19:28,756 --> 00:19:33,036 Speaker 1: But through perseverance, through patients, it can cut its way 339 00:19:33,076 --> 00:19:37,156 Speaker 1: through rocks. And it's a way that we can deal 340 00:19:37,196 --> 00:19:41,676 Speaker 1: with the obstructions in our life by remaining authentically ourself, 341 00:19:42,076 --> 00:19:45,516 Speaker 1: and over time, and sometimes it takes more time than 342 00:19:45,556 --> 00:19:48,956 Speaker 1: we wish it would, we can actually not only get 343 00:19:48,996 --> 00:19:52,556 Speaker 1: through or over or around that obstruction, but become even 344 00:19:52,636 --> 00:19:54,796 Speaker 1: stronger for it. And I love this part of the 345 00:19:54,836 --> 00:19:57,276 Speaker 1: metaphor in particular because I think, you know, again with 346 00:19:57,316 --> 00:19:59,636 Speaker 1: sort of modern eyes, sometimes when you think of some 347 00:19:59,676 --> 00:20:02,676 Speaker 1: substance like water that's very yielding, that's very flexible, you 348 00:20:02,676 --> 00:20:06,036 Speaker 1: can assume it's very weak, right like you can assume 349 00:20:06,076 --> 00:20:08,476 Speaker 1: it's not very powerful. And we want to be powerful 350 00:20:08,636 --> 00:20:10,356 Speaker 1: in our lives, you know, we want to carve good 351 00:20:10,396 --> 00:20:13,356 Speaker 1: things for ourselves. But I think the Daoist way suggests that, 352 00:20:13,396 --> 00:20:15,476 Speaker 1: you know, sometimes the way you carve those good things 353 00:20:15,676 --> 00:20:18,076 Speaker 1: is not through fighting against the tide. It's through kind 354 00:20:18,076 --> 00:20:22,236 Speaker 1: of going with the flow and persistence. Sometimes you can 355 00:20:22,316 --> 00:20:25,916 Speaker 1: reach a state of what the Buddhists call enlightenment or 356 00:20:25,956 --> 00:20:29,876 Speaker 1: what the Daoist called entering dao. It can happen just 357 00:20:29,956 --> 00:20:33,236 Speaker 1: in a moment, in a flash, and people may think, wow, 358 00:20:33,276 --> 00:20:36,196 Speaker 1: how did that happen so quickly, But it's because of 359 00:20:36,236 --> 00:20:40,876 Speaker 1: all those years or perhaps even lifetimes of persistence that 360 00:20:40,916 --> 00:20:44,516 Speaker 1: you have been building your energy, your understanding over the 361 00:20:44,676 --> 00:20:47,756 Speaker 1: less time that finally you reach that precipice, like the 362 00:20:47,796 --> 00:20:51,716 Speaker 1: water going over a giant waterfall. It's just like, you know, 363 00:20:51,756 --> 00:20:54,316 Speaker 1: the Beatles were so famous, right one day they were 364 00:20:54,356 --> 00:20:57,236 Speaker 1: just the Beatles and famous and accomplished and rich, and 365 00:20:57,396 --> 00:20:59,716 Speaker 1: didn't talk about all the years they played in these 366 00:20:59,756 --> 00:21:02,956 Speaker 1: horrible dives in Hamburg in Germany, and all the little 367 00:21:02,996 --> 00:21:06,196 Speaker 1: funky gigs they did for many, many years all over Liverpool, 368 00:21:06,196 --> 00:21:09,196 Speaker 1: all over England. And so sometimes we see someone and 369 00:21:09,356 --> 00:21:12,236 Speaker 1: become famous and we go, wow, where do they come from? 370 00:21:12,396 --> 00:21:17,396 Speaker 1: But it's really because we are consistent and patient. You 371 00:21:17,436 --> 00:21:20,316 Speaker 1: know what. My teacher watching Ni says that the high 372 00:21:20,436 --> 00:21:23,156 Speaker 1: is built on the low, and that when we're in 373 00:21:23,196 --> 00:21:25,756 Speaker 1: that spot in her life where nothing seems to be 374 00:21:25,796 --> 00:21:29,116 Speaker 1: getting accomplished, where we feel like we're just not getting 375 00:21:29,156 --> 00:21:33,676 Speaker 1: anywhere and we're not getting ahead, certainly, and we might 376 00:21:33,716 --> 00:21:37,836 Speaker 1: get frustrated with that naturally, of course, but to understand 377 00:21:37,876 --> 00:21:41,356 Speaker 1: that suddenly you see things, you understand things in a 378 00:21:41,396 --> 00:21:45,036 Speaker 1: different way, and why not start right now where you are, 379 00:21:45,196 --> 00:21:49,196 Speaker 1: right now, right here, in this very moment, we have 380 00:21:49,316 --> 00:21:53,196 Speaker 1: all the power we need to free ourselves from the 381 00:21:53,316 --> 00:21:58,076 Speaker 1: chains of bondage that culture and various religions and society 382 00:21:58,076 --> 00:22:01,036 Speaker 1: and teachers and political parties have put us in. And 383 00:22:01,116 --> 00:22:05,796 Speaker 1: realize that we are already enlightened beings. We are Buddhists, 384 00:22:05,796 --> 00:22:09,516 Speaker 1: We are the people who are authentically are cells, and 385 00:22:09,596 --> 00:22:13,556 Speaker 1: why don't we start experimenting with how to embrace that 386 00:22:13,996 --> 00:22:17,036 Speaker 1: and show that to the world. And so I wanted 387 00:22:17,036 --> 00:22:20,076 Speaker 1: to touch on how following the Huwai has worked in 388 00:22:20,116 --> 00:22:22,836 Speaker 1: your own life. You know you're a practicing Daoist, right, 389 00:22:23,076 --> 00:22:25,756 Speaker 1: I mean, how has this how's this philosophy changed how 390 00:22:25,796 --> 00:22:28,916 Speaker 1: you live and how happy you are? Very good question. 391 00:22:30,476 --> 00:22:32,836 Speaker 1: I use that principle in my life. You know, when 392 00:22:32,916 --> 00:22:36,276 Speaker 1: I'm writing books, when I'm recording music, when I'm teaching. 393 00:22:36,716 --> 00:22:39,796 Speaker 1: Right now, you know, the whole world has changed. And 394 00:22:39,876 --> 00:22:42,396 Speaker 1: I used to travel around the country teaching chigong. I 395 00:22:42,516 --> 00:22:45,596 Speaker 1: used to take tours of groups of people to China 396 00:22:45,676 --> 00:22:47,716 Speaker 1: and go way up in the mountains and work with 397 00:22:47,756 --> 00:22:50,236 Speaker 1: the Daoists and the holy people in the mountains, the 398 00:22:50,276 --> 00:22:52,436 Speaker 1: hermits who live in caves and things like that. And 399 00:22:52,516 --> 00:22:56,396 Speaker 1: now I'm doing it all through Zoom. So in a way, 400 00:22:56,756 --> 00:22:59,676 Speaker 1: it calls upon my ability to be flexible and to 401 00:22:59,836 --> 00:23:03,716 Speaker 1: not get frustrated. I can't actually go to the mountains 402 00:23:03,716 --> 00:23:06,516 Speaker 1: of China, but what I can do is remember what 403 00:23:06,596 --> 00:23:09,116 Speaker 1: I learned in the mountains of China, what I experience 404 00:23:09,156 --> 00:23:11,916 Speaker 1: varience there, and bring that into my life and not 405 00:23:12,076 --> 00:23:15,476 Speaker 1: feel like I'm losing anything. I can apply this principle 406 00:23:15,556 --> 00:23:20,756 Speaker 1: of not over extending, not standing on tiptoe, not forcing 407 00:23:20,796 --> 00:23:22,996 Speaker 1: things to happen. You know, I went through my own 408 00:23:22,996 --> 00:23:25,796 Speaker 1: cancer journey last year, and anyone who's been through that 409 00:23:25,876 --> 00:23:29,716 Speaker 1: nose it's a very life changing experience. But even in 410 00:23:29,756 --> 00:23:33,436 Speaker 1: the midst of it, before surgery and that, I had 411 00:23:33,436 --> 00:23:36,916 Speaker 1: a feeling in myself that who I really was was 412 00:23:36,956 --> 00:23:39,636 Speaker 1: going to be okay. No matter what happened to my body, 413 00:23:40,076 --> 00:23:42,396 Speaker 1: I was going to be okay. So I think that's 414 00:23:42,396 --> 00:23:45,156 Speaker 1: a little bit of what we're talking about. And of 415 00:23:45,156 --> 00:23:47,916 Speaker 1: course in relationship that's a big issue too. Is that 416 00:23:48,516 --> 00:23:51,676 Speaker 1: more important to you to be right or to have 417 00:23:51,756 --> 00:23:55,036 Speaker 1: harmony in your relationship in your life, not trying to 418 00:23:55,036 --> 00:23:58,996 Speaker 1: force your opinions your judgments on someone else, being open 419 00:23:59,076 --> 00:24:02,996 Speaker 1: to listening to them. Using another very important Dallas principle 420 00:24:03,036 --> 00:24:06,836 Speaker 1: of going slowly, especially if you're in a difficult conversation, 421 00:24:07,156 --> 00:24:10,676 Speaker 1: speak slowly and listen slowly, so that you're not sitting 422 00:24:10,716 --> 00:24:13,476 Speaker 1: there listening to the other person, but half of you 423 00:24:13,676 --> 00:24:15,396 Speaker 1: is just thinking about what you're going to say. As 424 00:24:15,436 --> 00:24:18,476 Speaker 1: soon as they stop talking, they all work together. That's 425 00:24:18,516 --> 00:24:24,036 Speaker 1: the thing. Uway, watercourseway flexibility going slowly. They all work together. 426 00:24:24,316 --> 00:24:27,676 Speaker 1: It's like a band, right. We had John, Paul, Ringo 427 00:24:27,876 --> 00:24:30,556 Speaker 1: and George and they all work together and they had 428 00:24:30,596 --> 00:24:34,236 Speaker 1: a special kind of magical synergy that is still moving 429 00:24:34,276 --> 00:24:37,116 Speaker 1: people fifty years later. So why don't we do that 430 00:24:37,156 --> 00:24:39,796 Speaker 1: in our life? Why don't we become the directors of 431 00:24:39,796 --> 00:24:42,876 Speaker 1: our own life movies and the writers of our own 432 00:24:42,956 --> 00:24:46,596 Speaker 1: scripts of our life? And sometimes in the movie, things 433 00:24:46,596 --> 00:24:48,916 Speaker 1: aren't going well for the hero and you were wondering, 434 00:24:49,156 --> 00:24:51,076 Speaker 1: how's he going to get out of it this time, 435 00:24:51,236 --> 00:24:53,236 Speaker 1: although most of the time you know the hero is 436 00:24:53,236 --> 00:24:55,276 Speaker 1: going to get out of it somehow, but you don't 437 00:24:55,316 --> 00:24:59,636 Speaker 1: know how. So when something really tragic or difficult happens 438 00:24:59,636 --> 00:25:01,996 Speaker 1: in your life, instead of going, oh my god, what's 439 00:25:02,036 --> 00:25:04,836 Speaker 1: going to happen to me? Now, you can instead with 440 00:25:04,996 --> 00:25:08,396 Speaker 1: that sort of childlike thing, I wonder how I'm going 441 00:25:08,436 --> 00:25:11,356 Speaker 1: to get out of it this time? And I wonder 442 00:25:11,396 --> 00:25:14,676 Speaker 1: what this is going to lead to? Because so many 443 00:25:14,796 --> 00:25:19,236 Speaker 1: really challenging things in our life lead to really wonderful things. 444 00:25:20,036 --> 00:25:24,556 Speaker 1: So instead of just being depressed and scared and frustrated, 445 00:25:24,876 --> 00:25:28,156 Speaker 1: more like, hmm, I'm really interested to see where this 446 00:25:28,236 --> 00:25:30,316 Speaker 1: is going to lead me and what good is going 447 00:25:30,356 --> 00:25:32,556 Speaker 1: to come out of this? I can't wait to see it. 448 00:25:32,836 --> 00:25:34,276 Speaker 1: And this fits with so many of the things that 449 00:25:34,316 --> 00:25:37,196 Speaker 1: we've talked about on this podcast, sort of first reframing 450 00:25:37,436 --> 00:25:39,756 Speaker 1: hard tasks as this kind of game, as this sort 451 00:25:39,756 --> 00:25:42,236 Speaker 1: of challenge in this sort of childlike way. But it 452 00:25:42,276 --> 00:25:44,676 Speaker 1: also fits with something that we see in the research, 453 00:25:44,676 --> 00:25:47,476 Speaker 1: which is this phenomena of post traumatic growth, this idea 454 00:25:47,516 --> 00:25:50,956 Speaker 1: that you know, hard times don't necessarily always cause post 455 00:25:50,956 --> 00:25:54,436 Speaker 1: traumatic stress. Sometimes they can cause a lot of growth. Right. 456 00:25:54,476 --> 00:25:56,956 Speaker 1: They can make us recognize what's meaningful in life, they 457 00:25:56,956 --> 00:25:59,116 Speaker 1: can make us stronger, we don't sweat the small stuff. 458 00:25:59,316 --> 00:26:01,276 Speaker 1: And it seems like the Daoists we're kind of onto 459 00:26:01,316 --> 00:26:03,876 Speaker 1: this notion that the tough times are really the good 460 00:26:03,876 --> 00:26:08,516 Speaker 1: builder times. We should be excited when we experience them. Yes, exactly, 461 00:26:09,156 --> 00:26:11,436 Speaker 1: when you're working out, when you're trying to build muscles, 462 00:26:11,476 --> 00:26:14,636 Speaker 1: what you're essentially doing often is stressing those muscles and 463 00:26:14,716 --> 00:26:17,596 Speaker 1: sometimes even tearing them a little bit so that when 464 00:26:17,636 --> 00:26:21,476 Speaker 1: they grow back together, they grow back together stronger. So, 465 00:26:21,596 --> 00:26:25,836 Speaker 1: just like the experiences in our life are frustrating or challenging, 466 00:26:26,236 --> 00:26:28,316 Speaker 1: we can understand that this is going to help me 467 00:26:28,476 --> 00:26:31,956 Speaker 1: become stronger if we have an open attitude about it. 468 00:26:32,476 --> 00:26:35,356 Speaker 1: If we just decide the world is against us, my 469 00:26:35,436 --> 00:26:38,876 Speaker 1: body's against me, all my relationships are against me, then 470 00:26:38,956 --> 00:26:42,116 Speaker 1: you don't have that post trauma growth. You have more 471 00:26:42,116 --> 00:26:45,076 Speaker 1: of the post drama stress. Another one of the Daoist 472 00:26:45,116 --> 00:26:48,156 Speaker 1: principles that again doesn't seem to fit with modern culture 473 00:26:48,236 --> 00:26:50,356 Speaker 1: is this idea that we should be going slowly rather 474 00:26:50,396 --> 00:26:53,356 Speaker 1: than speeding up and racing to get everywhere. It's like 475 00:26:53,716 --> 00:26:57,036 Speaker 1: slowness that's going to help us. It does seem, and 476 00:26:57,116 --> 00:27:01,676 Speaker 1: it certainly is true that the world historically, culturally, even politically, 477 00:27:01,796 --> 00:27:05,036 Speaker 1: is moving faster and faster and faster. You know, when 478 00:27:05,036 --> 00:27:07,396 Speaker 1: people used to just walk or they might have ridden 479 00:27:07,436 --> 00:27:09,676 Speaker 1: a horse, the first thing they got on a train 480 00:27:09,716 --> 00:27:11,636 Speaker 1: that was going thirty miles an hour, they were just 481 00:27:11,716 --> 00:27:14,156 Speaker 1: hanging on to their seats like, oh my god, we're 482 00:27:14,196 --> 00:27:17,116 Speaker 1: going so fast. We were just going to explode. The 483 00:27:17,196 --> 00:27:20,196 Speaker 1: idea is, when you're presented with this warlist going faster 484 00:27:20,276 --> 00:27:23,156 Speaker 1: and faster and faster, the way to counter it, to 485 00:27:23,236 --> 00:27:27,276 Speaker 1: be more healthy, to be happier, really is to find 486 00:27:27,316 --> 00:27:29,956 Speaker 1: a way to slow yourself down at least part of 487 00:27:29,996 --> 00:27:34,036 Speaker 1: the time. In Chinese the phrases manzo manzomi's go slowly. 488 00:27:34,316 --> 00:27:36,836 Speaker 1: And years ago I had a group in China and 489 00:27:36,916 --> 00:27:40,316 Speaker 1: we were going to a temple called Chinschunshan, and I 490 00:27:40,436 --> 00:27:43,316 Speaker 1: like that temple a lot because you can't just drive there. 491 00:27:43,556 --> 00:27:46,716 Speaker 1: You have to hike up many, many many stairs through 492 00:27:46,796 --> 00:27:49,716 Speaker 1: the forest to get to the temple. And we had 493 00:27:49,756 --> 00:27:53,756 Speaker 1: these porters who were carrying luggage and things, and sometimes 494 00:27:53,796 --> 00:27:56,076 Speaker 1: even people. They have little chairs that put you in 495 00:27:56,116 --> 00:27:58,556 Speaker 1: and they'll carry you up there. And I was kind 496 00:27:58,556 --> 00:28:01,316 Speaker 1: of going along the path and just kind of trudging 497 00:28:01,396 --> 00:28:03,236 Speaker 1: up without thinking about it too much, and I would 498 00:28:03,236 --> 00:28:05,916 Speaker 1: have to keep stopping to catch my breath, and finally 499 00:28:05,956 --> 00:28:07,996 Speaker 1: one of the porters looked at me. He just said 500 00:28:07,996 --> 00:28:10,756 Speaker 1: manzo manzo, and even though I had not heard that 501 00:28:10,876 --> 00:28:13,316 Speaker 1: term before, it was easy to understand what he meant. 502 00:28:13,836 --> 00:28:17,196 Speaker 1: By going more slowly, I wouldn't have to stop more often, 503 00:28:17,436 --> 00:28:20,956 Speaker 1: and I would actually get further with less effort and 504 00:28:21,156 --> 00:28:24,996 Speaker 1: perhaps even quicker. And in China, in the old days, 505 00:28:25,076 --> 00:28:28,236 Speaker 1: when you were saying goodbye to someone, nowadays they say zeigen, 506 00:28:28,396 --> 00:28:31,916 Speaker 1: which is basically like bye, but they would say manzo, 507 00:28:32,036 --> 00:28:35,356 Speaker 1: which means go slowly away from me. You don't hear 508 00:28:35,356 --> 00:28:37,756 Speaker 1: that as often. But last time I wasn't China. I 509 00:28:37,836 --> 00:28:39,436 Speaker 1: was in a train station and I went into a 510 00:28:39,476 --> 00:28:41,156 Speaker 1: little store to get some water, and I was like 511 00:28:41,396 --> 00:28:44,356 Speaker 1: charging out the door, and suddenly the woman in the 512 00:28:44,396 --> 00:28:48,396 Speaker 1: store yelled out, Manzo, Manzo, and it like stopped me 513 00:28:48,396 --> 00:28:50,556 Speaker 1: in my tracks, and I realized I really did have 514 00:28:50,676 --> 00:28:52,836 Speaker 1: enough time to get to the train. I don't have 515 00:28:52,956 --> 00:28:55,916 Speaker 1: to rush so much. So if we can live our 516 00:28:55,956 --> 00:28:59,436 Speaker 1: life that way, with this idea of go slowly, listen 517 00:28:59,596 --> 00:29:03,156 Speaker 1: slowly when we're about to run out the door, most 518 00:29:03,196 --> 00:29:06,636 Speaker 1: accidents happen when people are moving too quickly right and 519 00:29:06,756 --> 00:29:10,156 Speaker 1: not in their center, not grounded and rooted. When we 520 00:29:10,236 --> 00:29:13,356 Speaker 1: do our chiegoing practice, for instance, we always do a 521 00:29:13,396 --> 00:29:17,916 Speaker 1: grounding rooting practice so that we feel we are connected 522 00:29:17,956 --> 00:29:21,076 Speaker 1: to the living earth, that we are sending roots like 523 00:29:21,116 --> 00:29:23,956 Speaker 1: a tree from the bottom of our feet way down 524 00:29:23,956 --> 00:29:26,636 Speaker 1: into the earth. So when we start moving and doing 525 00:29:26,636 --> 00:29:30,156 Speaker 1: our form, we are still grounded and rooted. And the 526 00:29:30,196 --> 00:29:33,596 Speaker 1: more you can do just that grounding rooting practice, very 527 00:29:33,596 --> 00:29:37,356 Speaker 1: simple practice, you can move through the world in a 528 00:29:37,436 --> 00:29:41,316 Speaker 1: much more graceful, more of a dancerly way, and you 529 00:29:41,356 --> 00:29:44,276 Speaker 1: can live your life. Instead of being in a rut, 530 00:29:44,756 --> 00:29:47,476 Speaker 1: you are in a groove, which is something quite different. 531 00:29:47,796 --> 00:29:50,196 Speaker 1: So many of these Daoist principles are, as you mentioned, 532 00:29:50,236 --> 00:29:52,676 Speaker 1: like thousands of years old, and it seems like more 533 00:29:52,676 --> 00:29:55,236 Speaker 1: than ever, we're not living by them. Do you think 534 00:29:55,276 --> 00:29:57,156 Speaker 1: we'd all be a little bit happier if we could 535 00:29:57,156 --> 00:30:01,716 Speaker 1: embrace a bit more of the wuway? Yes, of course. 536 00:30:02,116 --> 00:30:04,036 Speaker 1: That's how do I try to live my life. And 537 00:30:04,276 --> 00:30:07,876 Speaker 1: I just turned seventy years old and my partner, Shanti 538 00:30:08,036 --> 00:30:11,236 Speaker 1: is sixty nine. You know, our thirty one year old roommate, 539 00:30:11,356 --> 00:30:14,236 Speaker 1: She said, You know, you guys are seem younger than 540 00:30:14,276 --> 00:30:17,316 Speaker 1: a lot of my friends because we still have that 541 00:30:17,396 --> 00:30:20,036 Speaker 1: sense of joy. We dance with each other, and the 542 00:30:20,036 --> 00:30:23,476 Speaker 1: more you can dance with life. When you're in a rut, 543 00:30:23,516 --> 00:30:26,116 Speaker 1: it's like you're in a canyon and you can't see 544 00:30:26,236 --> 00:30:28,876 Speaker 1: either side because of the walls of the canyon. But 545 00:30:28,996 --> 00:30:31,876 Speaker 1: when you're in a groove, it's like you're dancing through 546 00:30:31,876 --> 00:30:35,516 Speaker 1: the mountains, through the deserts. And when you're dancing, most 547 00:30:35,516 --> 00:30:38,236 Speaker 1: people feel happier. They feel a sense of joy when 548 00:30:38,236 --> 00:30:40,996 Speaker 1: they're dancing, right, no matter if they feel you're not 549 00:30:41,076 --> 00:30:44,036 Speaker 1: a good dancer. I'm a clunky dancer. You're embarrassed about it. 550 00:30:44,156 --> 00:30:46,036 Speaker 1: You may only do it in the privacy of your 551 00:30:46,036 --> 00:30:49,036 Speaker 1: own home. But the more we can feel that sense 552 00:30:49,076 --> 00:30:53,156 Speaker 1: of grace, that sense of joy, that sense of excitement 553 00:30:53,156 --> 00:30:56,476 Speaker 1: in life, I think, the happier and healthier we will 554 00:30:56,516 --> 00:30:59,676 Speaker 1: all be. And why not use these principles that have 555 00:30:59,756 --> 00:31:02,716 Speaker 1: stood the test of time right for thousands of years. 556 00:31:02,956 --> 00:31:05,596 Speaker 1: Why not incorporate them into our life. And we don't 557 00:31:05,636 --> 00:31:08,716 Speaker 1: have to change our religion to be a Daoist, you know, 558 00:31:08,756 --> 00:31:11,476 Speaker 1: we don't have to change whatever spiritual path on. We 559 00:31:11,516 --> 00:31:15,236 Speaker 1: can just apply these principles to our life and see 560 00:31:15,236 --> 00:31:17,956 Speaker 1: how they work in ourselves. Don't just read the book, 561 00:31:17,956 --> 00:31:20,716 Speaker 1: don't just listen to my words. Try to apply these 562 00:31:20,796 --> 00:31:24,116 Speaker 1: ideas to your own life and see how that affects 563 00:31:24,156 --> 00:31:27,796 Speaker 1: your life. That seems like a perfect thought on which 564 00:31:27,796 --> 00:31:30,596 Speaker 1: to end this mini season of Happiness Lessons of the Ancients. 565 00:31:30,996 --> 00:31:33,316 Speaker 1: Over the last few episodes, we've heard about a ton 566 00:31:33,356 --> 00:31:36,916 Speaker 1: of new happiness practices once developed over thousands of years 567 00:31:36,916 --> 00:31:40,236 Speaker 1: of human history. Learning about these insights doesn't mean you 568 00:31:40,276 --> 00:31:43,876 Speaker 1: have to totally upend your normal life. Instead, take a gentler, 569 00:31:44,036 --> 00:31:48,636 Speaker 1: more Taoist approach. You can experiment, maybe prioritize a bit 570 00:31:48,636 --> 00:31:52,276 Speaker 1: more forgiveness, but start small. Forgive yourself for something and 571 00:31:52,316 --> 00:31:55,196 Speaker 1: just see how it feels. Or maybe try to observe 572 00:31:55,276 --> 00:31:58,476 Speaker 1: a mini secular Shabbat rest and reflect for a few hours, 573 00:31:58,756 --> 00:32:00,196 Speaker 1: but don't feel like you have to make it a 574 00:32:00,236 --> 00:32:04,676 Speaker 1: whole day. Or devise a fun new social ritual, start 575 00:32:04,676 --> 00:32:07,076 Speaker 1: a monthly coffee meet up with a friend, or schedule 576 00:32:07,076 --> 00:32:10,516 Speaker 1: a no phones family movie night. Or when some annoying 577 00:32:10,516 --> 00:32:13,796 Speaker 1: obstacle crops up in your life, remember Salala's advice and 578 00:32:13,916 --> 00:32:19,396 Speaker 1: ask what would a river do. We're already working hard 579 00:32:19,436 --> 00:32:21,516 Speaker 1: on the next full season of the show, and we'll 580 00:32:21,556 --> 00:32:24,516 Speaker 1: be back with you this summer, So until then, stay 581 00:32:24,516 --> 00:32:27,476 Speaker 1: happy and thank you for listening to The Happiness Lab 582 00:32:27,596 --> 00:32:44,276 Speaker 1: with me, Doctor Laurie Santos. The Happiness Lab is co 583 00:32:44,356 --> 00:32:47,356 Speaker 1: written and produced by Ryan Dilley. The show was mastered 584 00:32:47,396 --> 00:32:50,036 Speaker 1: by Evan Viola and our original music was composed by 585 00:32:50,116 --> 00:32:54,596 Speaker 1: Zachary Silver. Special thanks to the entire Pushkin crew, including 586 00:32:54,756 --> 00:32:58,796 Speaker 1: Neil La Belle, Carlie Migliori, Heather Fane, Sophie Crane, mckibbon, 587 00:32:59,116 --> 00:33:03,276 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, Jacob Weisberg, and my agent Ben Davis. The 588 00:33:03,316 --> 00:33:05,996 Speaker 1: Happiness Lab is brought to you by Pushkin Industries and 589 00:33:06,156 --> 00:33:10,996 Speaker 1: meat doctor Laurie Santos People