WEBVTT - Anyone Can Cook, Pt. 2 — Tony 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:04.440 It's very difficult to keep the line between the past 0:00:04.519 --> 0:00:07.480 and the press. Believe that someone out of the past 0:00:08.119 --> 0:00:11.800 we can enter and take possession of a living being. 0:00:11.880 --> 0:00:14.000 We may be through with the past, but the past 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:20.360 is not true with us. Welcome back to the next 0:00:20.400 --> 0:00:22.919 picture show Movie the Week podcast derouted to a classic 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:25.439 film the way it shaped our thoughts on a recent release. 0:00:25.840 --> 0:00:29.319 I'm Scott Tobias here again with Tasha Robinson once again. 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:33.839 Keith Phipps and Genevievkaski are out nursing their blissful food hangovers, 0:00:34.120 --> 0:00:38.080 but Volture's Roxanna Adati is here with a healthy appetite 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:39.040 for podcasting. 0:00:39.280 --> 0:00:42.200 Hello Roxanna, Hello, this is really going to make me hungry. 0:00:42.400 --> 0:00:44.440 I actually regret this a lot. 0:00:45.920 --> 0:00:48.960 Right, we'll get through this. In our last episode, we 0:00:49.040 --> 0:00:52.720 discussed Ratituwei Pixars two thousand and seven classic about a 0:00:52.840 --> 0:00:55.840 rat's unlikely ascendance to the height of the Parisian fine 0:00:55.880 --> 0:00:58.920 dining scene. Now we start from the bottom again with 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:02.560 Tony at Johnson's new coming of age biopic about a 0:01:02.640 --> 0:01:05.720 formative time in the life of Anthony Bourdain, the late 0:01:05.840 --> 0:01:09.480 chef and TV personality who wrote Kitchen Confidential and hosted 0:01:09.520 --> 0:01:13.120 adventurous documentary shows like A Cook's Tour and Parts Unknown, 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:17.440 opening in nineteen seventy five, Tony stars Dominic Cessa as 0:01:17.560 --> 0:01:20.959 nineteen year old Anthony Bourdain, a would be novelist at 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:23.720 Vassar College who's first scene pitching an idea for a 0:01:23.720 --> 0:01:26.800 writing fellowship that could sustain him for the summer. When 0:01:26.800 --> 0:01:29.480 that fails, young Tony opts to follow the young woman 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:33.000 he's chasing, Nancy played by Amelia Jones, to Provincetown in 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.479 the faint hope that he can win her over. As 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.559 his fortunes dwindle and his wallet empties, Tony looks into 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:42.760 a job washing dishes at the Flagship, a modest tourist 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:46.960 spot whose older chef played by Antonio Banderas also offers 0:01:47.040 --> 0:01:49.520 him the hammock on his porch as a place to crash. 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.000 Stavrels Helkius and Leo Woodhall play two of the more 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.720 prominent troublemakers who showed Tony the ropes, and he quietly 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:01.600 develops an affection for kitchen work, which doesn't necessarily curb 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:05.000 his self destructive tendencies. We'll get into those in a bit. 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:15.840 Hello, mister Boardain, The committee has decided to go with 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:17.480 another student for the fellowship. 0:02:24.560 --> 0:02:26.320 I need a job. You work in a good too. 0:02:26.400 --> 0:02:32.840 Before Sorry, yeah, we open Wednesday to Sunday. 0:02:32.960 --> 0:02:33.760 Started living. 0:02:35.360 --> 0:02:36.200 What time is it? 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:39.040 And that means that you're here at ten forty five late? 0:02:39.840 --> 0:02:40.520 Anyone late. 0:02:40.680 --> 0:02:41.440 He's fine. 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:42.679 You know I can cook it too. 0:02:42.919 --> 0:02:43.880 The kids say he's a cook. 0:02:44.000 --> 0:02:45.000 Yeah, actually not a cook. 0:02:45.040 --> 0:02:45.520 I'm a writer. 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:47.320 But I said I know how to cook. 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:48.919 Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't understand that. 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:54.440 I see none of that, Tony. 0:02:55.680 --> 0:02:58.079 All right, So I just I'm curious what you all 0:02:58.160 --> 0:03:03.040 thought of Tony Roxander, your guest. So let's start with you. 0:03:02.960 --> 0:03:03.520 Do you think, Tony? 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:06.880 I think it's a very enjoyable movie if you don't 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:10.400 know anything about Anthony Bourdain. And I think what I 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.560 really struggled with is I am a I don't want 0:03:14.560 --> 0:03:16.800 to say like I'm a bordaane person that sounds like 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:21.240 incredibly annoying. Said it and immediately regretted it. 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:22.560 But you know, I have. 0:03:22.560 --> 0:03:27.240 Read Kitchen Confidential. I have like a general understanding of 0:03:27.320 --> 0:03:32.240 like the early years of his life and how from 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:36.560 his childhood in France, when he was like summering with 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:40.920 his family, he had been like obsessed and interested with 0:03:41.040 --> 0:03:44.040 food for like a very long time, I would say, 0:03:44.440 --> 0:03:50.839 and the summer in Provincetown is not necessarily And look, 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:53.600 I'm taking this all based on Kitchen Confidential chapters and 0:03:53.640 --> 0:03:56.000 what is laid out in these chapters that are adapted 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.040 for this film. But I kept getting hung up on 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.680 some of the like accuracy stuff, which I know is 0:04:01.680 --> 0:04:04.480 not always the best way to enjoy a film, but 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:08.280 for a biopic, there were things about this that I 0:04:08.280 --> 0:04:13.560 felt like they just reframed Bordaane in a way that 0:04:13.640 --> 0:04:19.960 I didn't entirely recognize. The movie is perfectly pleasant. I 0:04:19.960 --> 0:04:23.839 think all of the acting is really solid. I think 0:04:23.839 --> 0:04:27.480 that it moves well. There is a real flare in 0:04:27.680 --> 0:04:32.880 the kitchen montage sequences. There's this one long sequence where 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.400 you know, Tony being woken up with a pot of 0:04:36.400 --> 0:04:40.000 seawater to the face is mixed in with him like 0:04:40.160 --> 0:04:43.880 learning kitchen tasks, finally being able to put a potato 0:04:44.000 --> 0:04:47.160 through the machine that cuts into French fries. There's a 0:04:47.200 --> 0:04:50.640 real like rhythm and fluidity to some things. And I 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:55.000 think Dominiccessa is a perfect like shit stirring asshole, and 0:04:55.160 --> 0:04:59.880 that's always really fun about his performances, but a Bordane movie. 0:05:00.279 --> 0:05:01.640 It never really. 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.680 Felt to me like a Bordaane movie. And that's where 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:09.279 I'm getting hung up. It's like, perfectly fine, I'll rewatch 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.760 it when it hits streaming, but it's not the Bordaane 0:05:12.839 --> 0:05:14.560 experience I was looking for. 0:05:14.880 --> 0:05:15.680 Tasha, what about You? 0:05:15.960 --> 0:05:20.200 I like and echo everything that Roxana just said that. 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.599 I had a very similar experience where there was a 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:25.599 point in the movie and I couldn't even tell you 0:05:25.600 --> 0:05:28.200 where it was, maybe about a third of the way 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.800 through where I kind of thought, I don't see the 0:05:30.839 --> 0:05:34.400 Anthony Bourdain I know from his books or his shows 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.280 in this at all. And that's great, you know, because 0:05:39.640 --> 0:05:43.239 if this has been a you know, a walk hard 0:05:43.520 --> 0:05:47.599 kind of story, full of well, hello chef Eric Rippert, 0:05:47.800 --> 0:05:49.800 who I will meet later in life in a more 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:54.359 advantageous situation like that kind of thing, if this had 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:57.680 been the kind of movie, you know, rewatching Ratatui. Ratatui 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.560 is really really full of mission statements, like single sentences 0:06:02.200 --> 0:06:05.599 delivered with a lot of weight as things that you're 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:10.400 supposed to carry, and biopics in this style have a 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.800 bad tendency to do the same thing. Just really heavy 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:17.080 on the here is something that is going to define 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.520 your life. I'm now going to say a sentence that 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.080 you could put on a T shirt for this movie, 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.080 because that's the theme, and this movie was kind of 0:06:25.160 --> 0:06:29.760 light on that. I kept having holdovers flashbacks and thinking like, 0:06:29.839 --> 0:06:35.400 this movie compares pretty pretty favorably against the Holdovers if 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.359 you don't take it as a biopic, if you just 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.760 take it as a story about a relationship with a 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:45.120 kind of fusty older man who has done a lot 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:49.120 of living and come to a specific place, and a callow, 0:06:49.279 --> 0:06:51.719 flailing young man who doesn't know who he is yet 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:54.279 but has like a lot of energy and a lot 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.920 of conviction that he has already complete in and of himself. 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:01.640 The dynamics seemed familiar in a good and positive way. 0:07:02.080 --> 0:07:04.080 But about a third of the way through I let 0:07:04.160 --> 0:07:07.719 go of thinking of this character as Anthony Bourdain in 0:07:07.760 --> 0:07:11.000 any way, and it just made the movie better for me. 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.400 I think it's really interesting, you know, these kind of 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:19.400 partial biopics are usually about a really important inflection point, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:23.600 not just that changes the person's life, but kind of 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:27.600 define something important to them, And here I kind of 0:07:27.600 --> 0:07:31.520 feel like all we're really defining is anthey a Warden 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.640 found out that he liked working in a kitchen and 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.680 that it was meaningful, not that he discovered some of 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:39.800 the things that he in life he would like hold 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.560 up as mottos and beliefs, and that he would come 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:46.200 to be identified with. Just like I don't know what 0:07:46.240 --> 0:07:47.720 I want to be. I think I know what I 0:07:47.760 --> 0:07:50.920 want to be because I am, you know, young in 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:54.440 my early twenties and know everything. But then you know, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.640 some stuff changes, and I like it as a story 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:01.720 that way. I think the acting is great, I think 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:03.840 the pacing is great, and I think a lot of 0:08:03.920 --> 0:08:06.360 the storytelling is really great. But I enjoyed this movie 0:08:06.440 --> 0:08:08.640 so much more. When I let it go as as 0:08:08.680 --> 0:08:10.360 being any kind of biopic. 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.680 You can you are killing me. I really like this 0:08:12.720 --> 0:08:15.360 movie a lot. So I'm gonna I'm gonna defend a lot. 0:08:15.200 --> 0:08:17.480 Of a lot say we don't like it. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.480 We just liked it a lot, and I liked it 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.840 as a Bordaine film. So so I am, I I am. 0:08:24.600 --> 0:08:26.640 What's the cool way of saying I was into Bordaying 0:08:26.720 --> 0:08:29.160 Because I was pretty damn into bordaying that I loved 0:08:29.240 --> 0:08:32.520 Kitchen Confidential. It's just it's such a magnificent read I read, 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:34.400 I read a cook to who, I read everything, I 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:36.600 read his novel. I think I read a novel of his. 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:39.760 It wasn't as good, but you know, and it shows 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.600 I loved his personality. He I think, while he was 0:08:43.320 --> 0:08:47.760 doing those documentaries was pretty clearly America's best export. It's 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.880 like like he was somebody in American you could trust to 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:54.200 be in another country and not make an ass of himself. 0:08:54.200 --> 0:08:57.240 But in fact I appreciate the culture and history and 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:01.080 and that he was immersing himself into and had so 0:09:01.160 --> 0:09:02.880 much more to do that we had to do with food, 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:04.559 and it had to do with so much more than food. 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:07.319 I think those values are reflected in this movie. I 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:10.400 think the film actually does work as abordained biopick. Maybe 0:09:10.400 --> 0:09:13.360 it's because I haven't gotten I don't remember the details 0:09:13.400 --> 0:09:16.920 of Kitchen Confidential as well as you have Rock Down. 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:20.360 I know that you read the relevant passages here, so 0:09:20.400 --> 0:09:23.200 I trust that that maybe the film strays from that 0:09:23.280 --> 0:09:25.240 a little bit, though I do. I did note a 0:09:25.280 --> 0:09:27.840 line that felt like it must have come from Kitchen Confidential. 0:09:27.920 --> 0:09:31.600 We talked about having eaten oysters as a young person, 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:34.800 seeing the future or something like that. It felt very 0:09:35.000 --> 0:09:38.280 that felt very written. Yes, and it's like something that 0:09:38.280 --> 0:09:41.640 would have come directly from Kitchen Confidential. But I think 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:46.160 the film is so clever as a biopick because one, 0:09:46.200 --> 0:09:49.079 of course, it defies a lot of the cliches of 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:51.720 the biopick, and that it's giving you this slice of 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:54.360 his life, very small slice of his like this just 0:09:54.400 --> 0:09:57.840 the origin story, nothing more, you know. I mean, he 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:02.280 would have years more of being a jerk and being 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:06.120 an addict and being you know, a misfit and a troublemaker. 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:08.439 He had that. He was not done with that phase 0:10:08.640 --> 0:10:11.200 at the point that this movie ends. But I do 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:12.880 like how the film works on its own. But I 0:10:12.920 --> 0:10:15.760 also like how the film works with the memories that 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:17.960 you bring to it of ordained it if you are 0:10:18.240 --> 0:10:20.400 a fan of his work. And I think one of 0:10:20.400 --> 0:10:21.760 the one of the things one of the ways that 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.920 does that is how it evokes place. Because I was 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:28.280 talking about how in something like Parts Unknown that you 0:10:28.320 --> 0:10:31.240 know he he in the Cook's Tour, he was really 0:10:31.880 --> 0:10:35.040 the location. It's culture, it's history really had a great 0:10:35.080 --> 0:10:38.080 bearing on his thinking about the cuisine and the connection 0:10:38.160 --> 0:10:40.600 between those things. And I think you get to that 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:44.679 place in this movie. You get that place when he 0:10:44.960 --> 0:10:47.559 you know, brings back the clam bake, brings back this 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:50.520 old tradition that had been kind of had fallen by 0:10:50.520 --> 0:10:53.200 the wayside, and I think, you know, all of that 0:10:53.240 --> 0:10:55.640 stuff kind of comes into into play, and that that 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:59.320 passion that was sort of that germinating and developing in 0:10:59.320 --> 0:11:01.680 this place, that comes into play, and I guess I 0:11:01.840 --> 0:11:03.720 kind of buy that he was a bit of an 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.360 amateur at this point. I mean that, you know, I 0:11:06.400 --> 0:11:09.480 don't know, does the does Kitchen Confidential get into his 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:13.200 struggles and cracking open in an oyster? I don't know 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:13.720 what it does. 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:16.480 That's one of the things is that he has been 0:11:16.559 --> 0:11:19.559 cracking open oysters since he was eight years old. Okay, 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:22.480 Like the summer in France, he like became obsessed with oysters. 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:24.840 He has that, as you said, very beautiful line where 0:11:24.840 --> 0:11:27.480 they taste like the future. And it's like that summer 0:11:27.480 --> 0:11:31.640 in France that he's eating everything, becomes obsessed with food 0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:35.040 and realizes like that he knows he wants that to 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.959 be a part of his life. So then we get 0:11:38.000 --> 0:11:40.520 to the chapter where like he's in college, there's no 0:11:40.679 --> 0:11:43.160 mention of like a writing fellowship or anything like that. 0:11:43.520 --> 0:11:45.360 But he and his friends are all renting a house 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:48.560 together in Provincetown. He gets there, he doesn't have a job, 0:11:48.640 --> 0:11:50.880 and one of his friends gets him a dishwashing job, 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.760 and then we sort of set off on like the kitchen. 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:55.560 He doesn't really know what he's doing. He has to 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.400 learn various tasks in the kitchen and learned how to 0:11:58.480 --> 0:11:59.880 use coke yes. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.400 Which just you know, one of one of my big 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:06.719 impressions of like reading reading Kitchen Confidential and then kind 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.880 of graduating to reading a bunch of the short articles 0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:13.440 he had been writing at the time, was discovering what 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:17.040 kitchen culture was like, and he wrote a lot about 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:21.920 drug abuse and how ubiquitous it is in especially high 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:26.440 end kitchens, and the kind of you know, fairly obscene, 0:12:26.559 --> 0:12:30.320 often very personal banter that goes on in this movie. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:33.680 I mean that those parts that I certainly recognized, and 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.559 the idea of this is an origin story for Anthony 0:12:37.559 --> 0:12:40.640 Bourdain early coke fiend. Yeah, was actually pretty funny to 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:41.840 make it. Yeah. Yeah. 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:45.520 I mean that the Leo Woodhall characterists fascinating that relationship 0:12:45.520 --> 0:12:49.000 because it's like he looks at this guy who you know, 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:51.320 works hard and plays hard, and the play hard part 0:12:51.360 --> 0:12:53.240 of it is inspiring to him in a way too 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.280 that it's ends up being quite negative. I'd be just 0:12:55.320 --> 0:12:58.200 like a guy who is so smooth and can walk 0:12:58.200 --> 0:13:01.360 into a party and immediately hook up with somebody and 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:03.280 you know, and has all the access to all of 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:06.400 these drugs. I mean, there's something kind of intoxicating to 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.640 him in a way that would end up that end 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:10.800 up being sort of destructive. But it is a part 0:13:10.840 --> 0:13:12.640 of the story. I mean, I think, you know, that's 0:13:12.640 --> 0:13:15.720 another kind of bold thing that this movie does, and 0:13:15.720 --> 0:13:17.720 I think it sets itself up, of course by the 0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.880 quote I guess that opens the movie about something that 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:23.160 Bordaina wrote about himself at this point that he was, 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:25.480 you know, kind of an asshole, but like wasn't it. 0:13:25.400 --> 0:13:27.800 It was something about how he was, you know, an 0:13:27.920 --> 0:13:31.319 arrogant idiot who needed a good ask something. And then 0:13:31.360 --> 0:13:34.520 you just see that like played out for two hours 0:13:34.559 --> 0:13:35.439 and it is great. 0:13:35.559 --> 0:13:38.319 I'm happy. That's so accurate that this movie does that. 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.040 You know, that that that that allows him to be 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.800 that that way that it doesn't give you too you know, 0:13:44.920 --> 0:13:47.480 egregious or redemptive arc And I think it kind of 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:50.920 accomplishes a lot of that through well domin excesses performance, 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:53.920 which is which is he's just a magnetic performer and 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:55.720 in Somebody, I think you kind of stick with like 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.120 you do in the in the Holdovers. But I think 0:13:58.240 --> 0:13:59.600 the other part of it is I think the film 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.680 is really funny. That helps a lot too. You know. 0:14:02.720 --> 0:14:05.040 I think that you kind of get caught up in 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:07.480 the banter and in the in the action and in 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:09.880 the sort of like they seem like a bunch of 0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.200 rascals really, you know, they even though they are doing 0:14:12.400 --> 0:14:17.520 doing things that like your relationship to the rascals, you know. 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:19.480 And I think, but I think it's like it's easier 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:22.920 to kind of like, Okay, the film can fully acknowledge 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:28.000 some massive shortcomings on the part of Tony Boordain in 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:32.239 this movie, but it's palatable. You never feel like alienated 0:14:32.240 --> 0:14:33.440 from this character, I guess. 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:33.880 Yeah. 0:14:33.960 --> 0:14:36.280 I think the thing for me is that, like I 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:39.880 was not looking for Bordain as he is as an adult, 0:14:40.120 --> 0:14:43.640 and I was not necessarily looking for a nice or 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:47.240 likable character. I think there were two things that came 0:14:47.280 --> 0:14:50.280 down for me. I don't think the romance is necessary 0:14:50.320 --> 0:14:52.920 in any way, and I actually think that's the most 0:14:53.000 --> 0:14:57.400 like cliched biopic part of this is the sense that 0:14:57.480 --> 0:15:01.840 like this character has to come into shark focus through 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.760 a romance. To me, I think what is most interesting 0:15:06.080 --> 0:15:09.440 and is most interesting in Kitchen Confidential is exactly what 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.080 you're talking about, Scott. That like he falls in love 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:14.720 with the kitchen, as Tasha said earlier, like he falls 0:15:14.720 --> 0:15:17.960 in love with the vibe of the dynamic, the bros, 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:20.960 the stuff they can get away with, the bond, Like 0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:24.200 all of that stuff is I think what is really 0:15:24.360 --> 0:15:28.040 compelling in the book and in this film. And I 0:15:28.160 --> 0:15:31.560 just felt like everything with the romance felt really tertiary 0:15:31.640 --> 0:15:35.320 and really tacked on and really unnecessary. So that was 0:15:35.360 --> 0:15:37.560 like a big problem for me. But I think something 0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:40.120 that I liked, and maybe the closest thing where I 0:15:40.120 --> 0:15:44.080 felt like, oh, that's Bordaane, is that Matt Johnson builds 0:15:44.080 --> 0:15:47.520 in these moments where we just see Bordain watching people 0:15:48.080 --> 0:15:51.560 and observing behavior. There is a moment where Leo Woodall's 0:15:51.640 --> 0:15:56.640 character shoots up and Boordain is just watching him do this, 0:15:57.080 --> 0:16:00.680 and there's like a little bit of uncomfortable like voyeurism 0:16:00.720 --> 0:16:03.320 to that. But I liked it as like, this character 0:16:03.400 --> 0:16:05.200 right now, in this moment of his life, is a 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:09.480 sponge both for good things like everything Antony Banderris's character 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.600 is trying to teach him, and for like self destructive 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:16.200 awful things like heroin. So I think that part of 0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:18.120 it is really good, and I do like that Matt 0:16:18.200 --> 0:16:23.040 Johnson like allows us the time to spend in those moments. 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:26.600 I like the romance and the way it's handled because 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:29.520 to me, it's not an aspirational romance, and it's not 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:32.480 Maybe this is just my read on it, but it's 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:35.640 not something that we're meant to buy into as actually 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:38.600 romantic or as even something that we're rooting for. Like 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.280 there was no point at which I was rooting for 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:46.600 Tony to to finally get with Nancy. The fact that 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:51.040 his idea of game is to crash at gathering that 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:54.200 she's having other friends, like right before they leave town, 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.080 and to just like spout the longest words he can 0:16:57.120 --> 0:17:00.360 think of and then be condescending about them. He's just 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:04.080 kind of an extension of what Bordain himself has already 0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.600 told you that he's like young Callow and an asshole. 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:11.000 The setup. This is a small aside, but the setup 0:17:11.359 --> 0:17:15.760 of him bragging to his friend about the committee that's 0:17:15.800 --> 0:17:18.720 going to grant the writing fellowship and how dumb they 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:20.879 are and how easily he buffaloed him, and how he 0:17:20.920 --> 0:17:24.440 has no interest in writing and he promptly doesn't get it. 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:27.280 Is such a perfect setup for the gap between how 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.000 he sees himself and how the world sees him. And 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:34.680 I see that extended very very well and at length 0:17:35.119 --> 0:17:40.000 into his relationship with Nancy, who he's kind of inarticulately 0:17:40.080 --> 0:17:43.959 stumbling after he finds out that she's already got a boyfriend, 0:17:43.960 --> 0:17:47.199 which of course she does, and it wrecks him. He 0:17:47.280 --> 0:17:51.600 keeps making terrible decisions because he's following his dick around 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:55.800 just just hopefully just you know, a dog after a bone, 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.760 or after his own bone. Later they bone. That's a 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.600 little deep cut, Scott Scott Tobias referentialism for you there. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:09.080 So the fact that you know it's this quote unquote 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:11.480 romance is just kind of for most of the movie 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.200 being held up as one of the many things he's 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:18.600 dumb about and doing dumb things about the fact that 0:18:18.640 --> 0:18:21.639 he doesn't try to see Nancy as a person or 0:18:21.680 --> 0:18:26.040 communicate with her as a person. He just keeps trying ploise, 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:28.239 like when he says to her, I want you to 0:18:28.359 --> 0:18:31.240 photograph me because I like the way I feel when 0:18:31.240 --> 0:18:35.440 you look at me. Is a little closer to honesty, 0:18:35.520 --> 0:18:37.879 and it gets him a little closer to her. But 0:18:37.960 --> 0:18:40.360 it's also a line. It's also a game. As we 0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:43.200 see throughout at least the first half of the film, 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:45.639 every time they come together, everything he tells her is 0:18:45.680 --> 0:18:48.760 a lie. And when he sees her naked and just 0:18:48.960 --> 0:18:53.399 truth vomits all over her and she immediately makes it 0:18:53.440 --> 0:18:56.760 clear this ain't happening. I love her for that. I 0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.920 love her for standing up for herself, for recoiling from 0:19:00.080 --> 0:19:02.520 from all of these lies, And in that moment, that 0:19:02.600 --> 0:19:04.760 might be the first moment where I actually like him, 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:10.320 for being unable to continue the web of lies he's 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:13.720 spun to get to this moment. So, you know, I 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.240 definitely don't think there are a couple for the ages, 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:19.480 and I don't think you're supposed to root for them 0:19:19.840 --> 0:19:23.400 as a couple or even as a one time thing. 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:26.320 I just kind of love what they bring out about 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.959 each other. You know, the places where she is vulnerable 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:34.200 despite being you know, smart and clever and popular and 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:38.879 desired and beautiful the places where he's dumb and inept. 0:19:39.560 --> 0:19:42.480 My favorite thing in the movie is the relationship between 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:45.520 Tony and Sal and the degree to which that is 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:50.800 driven by sex and Sal's seemingly effortless success at everything 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:55.520 and Tony just stumbling after him, emulating everything he does 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:59.520 past a certain point, obviously hungering to be him, until 0:19:59.560 --> 0:20:01.560 he comes up up against that wall of watching him 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:04.600 shoot up and then just has to stumble away. I 0:20:04.640 --> 0:20:07.280 love the dynamic. I love the relationship there, and I 0:20:07.320 --> 0:20:10.199 think that romance is the emotional heart of the film, 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:14.919 even more so than you know, than Tony's relationship with uh, 0:20:15.160 --> 0:20:17.480 with the chef or with Nancy. 0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:20.280 That's bold, really, I mean, I I think I think 0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:24.120 I'm kind of with you, because I do. I do 0:20:24.320 --> 0:20:27.119 think that character, the sole character, is really a strong 0:20:27.160 --> 0:20:29.160 one in all the ways. That's to articulate, but I do. 0:20:29.240 --> 0:20:32.000 But boy, Antonio Benderas is so good in this though, 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:36.680 and I think there's I think there's so much complexity 0:20:36.680 --> 0:20:39.760 to that relationship, to that to that mentor protege relationship, 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.840 because I think it does end up cutting both ways, 0:20:42.920 --> 0:20:45.800 and that the chef does need another kick in the 0:20:45.840 --> 0:20:48.919 pants is kind of given up, as you know, is 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:51.439 in a position where he can run this restaurant and 0:20:51.520 --> 0:20:54.840 make it okay and and sort of needs a little 0:20:54.840 --> 0:20:56.639 bit of inspiration. But at the same time, you know, 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.720 he's playing with fire because he's he's he's taking on 0:20:59.800 --> 0:21:04.719 this combustible talent who literally he lights his restaurant on 0:21:04.760 --> 0:21:07.480 fire ultimately at the end, so he ends up paying 0:21:07.480 --> 0:21:10.000 for it and betrays him in different ways. I think 0:21:10.119 --> 0:21:13.960 it's fascinating round me again of just how good Antonio 0:21:14.000 --> 0:21:16.760 Benderos is as an actor. As if we need any 0:21:16.760 --> 0:21:20.920 more reminders, I thought this in the last Amadovar film 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:24.760 that he did, Glory. Yes, I think that's just a 0:21:25.119 --> 0:21:27.840 top drawer. Yeah, amadov of Ar film. You know my 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:30.560 maybe my favorite Bendera's performance ever. And I think a 0:21:30.560 --> 0:21:33.359 lot of that soul he brings to this movie. I 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:35.399