Speaker 1: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past
Speaker 1: and the press. Believe that someone out of the past
Speaker 1: we can enter and take possession of a living being.
Speaker 1: We may be through with the past, but the past
Speaker 1: is not true with us. Welcome back to the next
Speaker 1: picture show Movie the Week podcast derouted to a classic
Speaker 1: film the way it shaped our thoughts on a recent release.
Speaker 1: I'm Scott Tobias here again with Tasha Robinson once again.
Speaker 1: Keith Phipps and Genevievkaski are out nursing their blissful food hangovers,
Speaker 1: but Volture's Roxanna Adati is here with a healthy appetite
Speaker 1: for podcasting.
Speaker 2: Hello Roxanna, Hello, this is really going to make me hungry.
Speaker 2: I actually regret this a lot.
Speaker 1: Right, we'll get through this. In our last episode, we
Speaker 1: discussed Ratituwei Pixars two thousand and seven classic about a
Speaker 1: rat's unlikely ascendance to the height of the Parisian fine
Speaker 1: dining scene. Now we start from the bottom again with
Speaker 1: Tony at Johnson's new coming of age biopic about a
Speaker 1: formative time in the life of Anthony Bourdain, the late
Speaker 1: chef and TV personality who wrote Kitchen Confidential and hosted
Speaker 1: adventurous documentary shows like A Cook's Tour and Parts Unknown,
Speaker 1: opening in nineteen seventy five, Tony stars Dominic Cessa as
Speaker 1: nineteen year old Anthony Bourdain, a would be novelist at
Speaker 1: Vassar College who's first scene pitching an idea for a
Speaker 1: writing fellowship that could sustain him for the summer. When
Speaker 1: that fails, young Tony opts to follow the young woman
Speaker 1: he's chasing, Nancy played by Amelia Jones, to Provincetown in
Speaker 1: the faint hope that he can win her over. As
Speaker 1: his fortunes dwindle and his wallet empties, Tony looks into
Speaker 1: a job washing dishes at the Flagship, a modest tourist
Speaker 1: spot whose older chef played by Antonio Banderas also offers
Speaker 1: him the hammock on his porch as a place to crash.
Speaker 1: Stavrels Helkius and Leo Woodhall play two of the more
Speaker 1: prominent troublemakers who showed Tony the ropes, and he quietly
Speaker 1: develops an affection for kitchen work, which doesn't necessarily curb
Speaker 1: his self destructive tendencies. We'll get into those in a bit.
Speaker 3: Hello, mister Boardain, The committee has decided to go with
Speaker 3: another student for the fellowship.
Speaker 1: I need a job. You work in a good too.
Speaker 2: Before Sorry, yeah, we open Wednesday to Sunday.
Speaker 1: Started living.
Speaker 2: What time is it?
Speaker 1: And that means that you're here at ten forty five late?
Speaker 2: Anyone late.
Speaker 1: He's fine.
Speaker 3: You know I can cook it too.
Speaker 1: The kids say he's a cook.
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually not a cook.
Speaker 1: I'm a writer.
Speaker 3: But I said I know how to cook.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't understand that.
Speaker 2: I see none of that, Tony.
Speaker 1: All right, So I just I'm curious what you all
Speaker 1: thought of Tony Roxander, your guest. So let's start with you.
Speaker 1: Do you think, Tony?
Speaker 2: I think it's a very enjoyable movie if you don't
Speaker 2: know anything about Anthony Bourdain. And I think what I
Speaker 2: really struggled with is I am a I don't want
Speaker 2: to say like I'm a bordaane person that sounds like
Speaker 2: incredibly annoying. Said it and immediately regretted it.
Speaker 3: But you know, I have.
Speaker 2: Read Kitchen Confidential. I have like a general understanding of
Speaker 2: like the early years of his life and how from
Speaker 2: his childhood in France, when he was like summering with
Speaker 2: his family, he had been like obsessed and interested with
Speaker 2: food for like a very long time, I would say,
Speaker 2: and the summer in Provincetown is not necessarily And look,
Speaker 2: I'm taking this all based on Kitchen Confidential chapters and
Speaker 2: what is laid out in these chapters that are adapted
Speaker 2: for this film. But I kept getting hung up on
Speaker 2: some of the like accuracy stuff, which I know is
Speaker 2: not always the best way to enjoy a film, but
Speaker 2: for a biopic, there were things about this that I
Speaker 2: felt like they just reframed Bordaane in a way that
Speaker 2: I didn't entirely recognize. The movie is perfectly pleasant. I
Speaker 2: think all of the acting is really solid. I think
Speaker 2: that it moves well. There is a real flare in
Speaker 2: the kitchen montage sequences. There's this one long sequence where
Speaker 2: you know, Tony being woken up with a pot of
Speaker 2: seawater to the face is mixed in with him like
Speaker 2: learning kitchen tasks, finally being able to put a potato
Speaker 2: through the machine that cuts into French fries. There's a
Speaker 2: real like rhythm and fluidity to some things. And I
Speaker 2: think Dominiccessa is a perfect like shit stirring asshole, and
Speaker 2: that's always really fun about his performances, but a Bordane movie.
Speaker 3: It never really.
Speaker 2: Felt to me like a Bordaane movie. And that's where
Speaker 2: I'm getting hung up. It's like, perfectly fine, I'll rewatch
Speaker 2: it when it hits streaming, but it's not the Bordaane
Speaker 2: experience I was looking for.
Speaker 1: Tasha, what about You?
Speaker 3: I like and echo everything that Roxana just said that.
Speaker 3: I had a very similar experience where there was a
Speaker 3: point in the movie and I couldn't even tell you
Speaker 3: where it was, maybe about a third of the way
Speaker 3: through where I kind of thought, I don't see the
Speaker 3: Anthony Bourdain I know from his books or his shows
Speaker 3: in this at all. And that's great, you know, because
Speaker 3: if this has been a you know, a walk hard
Speaker 3: kind of story, full of well, hello chef Eric Rippert,
Speaker 3: who I will meet later in life in a more
Speaker 3: advantageous situation like that kind of thing, if this had
Speaker 3: been the kind of movie, you know, rewatching Ratatui. Ratatui
Speaker 3: is really really full of mission statements, like single sentences
Speaker 3: delivered with a lot of weight as things that you're
Speaker 3: supposed to carry, and biopics in this style have a
Speaker 3: bad tendency to do the same thing. Just really heavy
Speaker 3: on the here is something that is going to define
Speaker 3: your life. I'm now going to say a sentence that
Speaker 3: you could put on a T shirt for this movie,
Speaker 3: because that's the theme, and this movie was kind of
Speaker 3: light on that. I kept having holdovers flashbacks and thinking like,
Speaker 3: this movie compares pretty pretty favorably against the Holdovers if
Speaker 3: you don't take it as a biopic, if you just
Speaker 3: take it as a story about a relationship with a
Speaker 3: kind of fusty older man who has done a lot
Speaker 3: of living and come to a specific place, and a callow,
Speaker 3: flailing young man who doesn't know who he is yet
Speaker 3: but has like a lot of energy and a lot
Speaker 3: of conviction that he has already complete in and of himself.
Speaker 3: The dynamics seemed familiar in a good and positive way.
Speaker 3: But about a third of the way through I let
Speaker 3: go of thinking of this character as Anthony Bourdain in
Speaker 3: any way, and it just made the movie better for me.
Speaker 3: I think it's really interesting, you know, these kind of
Speaker 3: partial biopics are usually about a really important inflection point,
Speaker 3: not just that changes the person's life, but kind of
Speaker 3: define something important to them, And here I kind of
Speaker 3: feel like all we're really defining is anthey a Warden
Speaker 3: found out that he liked working in a kitchen and
Speaker 3: that it was meaningful, not that he discovered some of
Speaker 3: the things that he in life he would like hold
Speaker 3: up as mottos and beliefs, and that he would come
Speaker 3: to be identified with. Just like I don't know what
Speaker 3: I want to be. I think I know what I
Speaker 3: want to be because I am, you know, young in
Speaker 3: my early twenties and know everything. But then you know,
Speaker 3: some stuff changes, and I like it as a story
Speaker 3: that way. I think the acting is great, I think
Speaker 3: the pacing is great, and I think a lot of
Speaker 3: the storytelling is really great. But I enjoyed this movie
Speaker 3: so much more. When I let it go as as
Speaker 3: being any kind of biopic.
Speaker 1: You can you are killing me. I really like this
Speaker 1: movie a lot. So I'm gonna I'm gonna defend a lot.
Speaker 2: Of a lot say we don't like it.
Speaker 1: We just liked it a lot, and I liked it
Speaker 1: as a Bordaine film. So so I am, I I am.
Speaker 1: What's the cool way of saying I was into Bordaying
Speaker 1: Because I was pretty damn into bordaying that I loved
Speaker 1: Kitchen Confidential. It's just it's such a magnificent read I read,
Speaker 1: I read a cook to who, I read everything, I
Speaker 1: read his novel. I think I read a novel of his.
Speaker 1: It wasn't as good, but you know, and it shows
Speaker 1: I loved his personality. He I think, while he was
Speaker 1: doing those documentaries was pretty clearly America's best export. It's
Speaker 1: like like he was somebody in American you could trust to
Speaker 1: be in another country and not make an ass of himself.
Speaker 1: But in fact I appreciate the culture and history and
Speaker 1: and that he was immersing himself into and had so
Speaker 1: much more to do that we had to do with food,
Speaker 1: and it had to do with so much more than food.
Speaker 1: I think those values are reflected in this movie. I
Speaker 1: think the film actually does work as abordained biopick. Maybe
Speaker 1: it's because I haven't gotten I don't remember the details
Speaker 1: of Kitchen Confidential as well as you have Rock Down.
Speaker 1: I know that you read the relevant passages here, so
Speaker 1: I trust that that maybe the film strays from that
Speaker 1: a little bit, though I do. I did note a
Speaker 1: line that felt like it must have come from Kitchen Confidential.
Speaker 1: We talked about having eaten oysters as a young person,
Speaker 1: seeing the future or something like that. It felt very
Speaker 1: that felt very written. Yes, and it's like something that
Speaker 1: would have come directly from Kitchen Confidential. But I think
Speaker 1: the film is so clever as a biopick because one,
Speaker 1: of course, it defies a lot of the cliches of
Speaker 1: the biopick, and that it's giving you this slice of
Speaker 1: his life, very small slice of his like this just
Speaker 1: the origin story, nothing more, you know. I mean, he
Speaker 1: would have years more of being a jerk and being
Speaker 1: an addict and being you know, a misfit and a troublemaker.
Speaker 1: He had that. He was not done with that phase
Speaker 1: at the point that this movie ends. But I do
Speaker 1: like how the film works on its own. But I
Speaker 1: also like how the film works with the memories that
Speaker 1: you bring to it of ordained it if you are
Speaker 1: a fan of his work. And I think one of
Speaker 1: the one of the things one of the ways that
Speaker 1: does that is how it evokes place. Because I was
Speaker 1: talking about how in something like Parts Unknown that you
Speaker 1: know he he in the Cook's Tour, he was really
Speaker 1: the location. It's culture, it's history really had a great
Speaker 1: bearing on his thinking about the cuisine and the connection
Speaker 1: between those things. And I think you get to that
Speaker 1: place in this movie. You get that place when he
Speaker 1: you know, brings back the clam bake, brings back this
Speaker 1: old tradition that had been kind of had fallen by
Speaker 1: the wayside, and I think, you know, all of that
Speaker 1: stuff kind of comes into into play, and that that
Speaker 1: passion that was sort of that germinating and developing in
Speaker 1: this place, that comes into play, and I guess I
Speaker 1: kind of buy that he was a bit of an
Speaker 1: amateur at this point. I mean that, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, does the does Kitchen Confidential get into his
Speaker 1: struggles and cracking open in an oyster? I don't know
Speaker 1: what it does.
Speaker 2: That's one of the things is that he has been
Speaker 2: cracking open oysters since he was eight years old. Okay,
Speaker 2: Like the summer in France, he like became obsessed with oysters.
Speaker 2: He has that, as you said, very beautiful line where
Speaker 2: they taste like the future. And it's like that summer
Speaker 2: in France that he's eating everything, becomes obsessed with food
Speaker 2: and realizes like that he knows he wants that to
Speaker 2: be a part of his life. So then we get
Speaker 2: to the chapter where like he's in college, there's no
Speaker 2: mention of like a writing fellowship or anything like that.
Speaker 2: But he and his friends are all renting a house
Speaker 2: together in Provincetown. He gets there, he doesn't have a job,
Speaker 2: and one of his friends gets him a dishwashing job,
Speaker 2: and then we sort of set off on like the kitchen.
Speaker 2: He doesn't really know what he's doing. He has to
Speaker 2: learn various tasks in the kitchen and learned how to
Speaker 2: use coke yes.
Speaker 3: Which just you know, one of one of my big
Speaker 3: impressions of like reading reading Kitchen Confidential and then kind
Speaker 3: of graduating to reading a bunch of the short articles
Speaker 3: he had been writing at the time, was discovering what
Speaker 3: kitchen culture was like, and he wrote a lot about
Speaker 3: drug abuse and how ubiquitous it is in especially high
Speaker 3: end kitchens, and the kind of you know, fairly obscene,
Speaker 3: often very personal banter that goes on in this movie.
Speaker 3: I mean that those parts that I certainly recognized, and
Speaker 3: the idea of this is an origin story for Anthony
Speaker 3: Bourdain early coke fiend. Yeah, was actually pretty funny to
Speaker 3: make it. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean that the Leo Woodhall characterists fascinating that relationship
Speaker 1: because it's like he looks at this guy who you know,
Speaker 1: works hard and plays hard, and the play hard part
Speaker 1: of it is inspiring to him in a way too
Speaker 1: that it's ends up being quite negative. I'd be just
Speaker 1: like a guy who is so smooth and can walk
Speaker 1: into a party and immediately hook up with somebody and
Speaker 1: you know, and has all the access to all of
Speaker 1: these drugs. I mean, there's something kind of intoxicating to
Speaker 1: him in a way that would end up that end
Speaker 1: up being sort of destructive. But it is a part
Speaker 1: of the story. I mean, I think, you know, that's
Speaker 1: another kind of bold thing that this movie does, and
Speaker 1: I think it sets itself up, of course by the
Speaker 1: quote I guess that opens the movie about something that
Speaker 1: Bordaina wrote about himself at this point that he was,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of an asshole, but like wasn't it.
Speaker 3: It was something about how he was, you know, an
Speaker 3: arrogant idiot who needed a good ask something. And then
Speaker 3: you just see that like played out for two hours
Speaker 3: and it is great.
Speaker 1: I'm happy. That's so accurate that this movie does that.
Speaker 1: You know, that that that that allows him to be
Speaker 1: that that way that it doesn't give you too you know,
Speaker 1: egregious or redemptive arc And I think it kind of
Speaker 1: accomplishes a lot of that through well domin excesses performance,
Speaker 1: which is which is he's just a magnetic performer and
Speaker 1: in Somebody, I think you kind of stick with like
Speaker 1: you do in the in the Holdovers. But I think
Speaker 1: the other part of it is I think the film
Speaker 1: is really funny. That helps a lot too. You know.
Speaker 1: I think that you kind of get caught up in
Speaker 1: the banter and in the in the action and in
Speaker 1: the sort of like they seem like a bunch of
Speaker 1: rascals really, you know, they even though they are doing
Speaker 1: doing things that like your relationship to the rascals, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think, but I think it's like it's easier
Speaker 1: to kind of like, Okay, the film can fully acknowledge
Speaker 1: some massive shortcomings on the part of Tony Boordain in
Speaker 1: this movie, but it's palatable. You never feel like alienated
Speaker 1: from this character, I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I think the thing for me is that, like I
Speaker 2: was not looking for Bordain as he is as an adult,
Speaker 2: and I was not necessarily looking for a nice or
Speaker 2: likable character. I think there were two things that came
Speaker 2: down for me. I don't think the romance is necessary
Speaker 2: in any way, and I actually think that's the most
Speaker 2: like cliched biopic part of this is the sense that
Speaker 2: like this character has to come into shark focus through
Speaker 2: a romance. To me, I think what is most interesting
Speaker 2: and is most interesting in Kitchen Confidential is exactly what
Speaker 2: you're talking about, Scott. That like he falls in love
Speaker 2: with the kitchen, as Tasha said earlier, like he falls
Speaker 2: in love with the vibe of the dynamic, the bros,
Speaker 2: the stuff they can get away with, the bond, Like
Speaker 2: all of that stuff is I think what is really
Speaker 2: compelling in the book and in this film. And I
Speaker 2: just felt like everything with the romance felt really tertiary
Speaker 2: and really tacked on and really unnecessary. So that was
Speaker 2: like a big problem for me. But I think something
Speaker 2: that I liked, and maybe the closest thing where I
Speaker 2: felt like, oh, that's Bordaane, is that Matt Johnson builds
Speaker 2: in these moments where we just see Bordain watching people
Speaker 2: and observing behavior. There is a moment where Leo Woodall's
Speaker 2: character shoots up and Boordain is just watching him do this,
Speaker 2: and there's like a little bit of uncomfortable like voyeurism
Speaker 2: to that. But I liked it as like, this character
Speaker 2: right now, in this moment of his life, is a
Speaker 2: sponge both for good things like everything Antony Banderris's character
Speaker 2: is trying to teach him, and for like self destructive
Speaker 2: awful things like heroin. So I think that part of
Speaker 2: it is really good, and I do like that Matt
Speaker 2: Johnson like allows us the time to spend in those moments.
Speaker 3: I like the romance and the way it's handled because
Speaker 3: to me, it's not an aspirational romance, and it's not
Speaker 3: Maybe this is just my read on it, but it's
Speaker 3: not something that we're meant to buy into as actually
Speaker 3: romantic or as even something that we're rooting for. Like
Speaker 3: there was no point at which I was rooting for
Speaker 3: Tony to to finally get with Nancy. The fact that
Speaker 3: his idea of game is to crash at gathering that
Speaker 3: she's having other friends, like right before they leave town,
Speaker 3: and to just like spout the longest words he can
Speaker 3: think of and then be condescending about them. He's just
Speaker 3: kind of an extension of what Bordain himself has already
Speaker 3: told you that he's like young Callow and an asshole.
Speaker 3: The setup. This is a small aside, but the setup
Speaker 3: of him bragging to his friend about the committee that's
Speaker 3: going to grant the writing fellowship and how dumb they
Speaker 3: are and how easily he buffaloed him, and how he
Speaker 3: has no interest in writing and he promptly doesn't get it.
Speaker 3: Is such a perfect setup for the gap between how
Speaker 3: he sees himself and how the world sees him. And
Speaker 3: I see that extended very very well and at length
Speaker 3: into his relationship with Nancy, who he's kind of inarticulately
Speaker 3: stumbling after he finds out that she's already got a boyfriend,
Speaker 3: which of course she does, and it wrecks him. He
Speaker 3: keeps making terrible decisions because he's following his dick around
Speaker 3: just just hopefully just you know, a dog after a bone,
Speaker 3: or after his own bone. Later they bone. That's a
Speaker 3: little deep cut, Scott Scott Tobias referentialism for you there.
Speaker 3: So the fact that you know it's this quote unquote
Speaker 3: romance is just kind of for most of the movie
Speaker 3: being held up as one of the many things he's
Speaker 3: dumb about and doing dumb things about the fact that
Speaker 3: he doesn't try to see Nancy as a person or
Speaker 3: communicate with her as a person. He just keeps trying ploise,
Speaker 3: like when he says to her, I want you to
Speaker 3: photograph me because I like the way I feel when
Speaker 3: you look at me. Is a little closer to honesty,
Speaker 3: and it gets him a little closer to her. But
Speaker 3: it's also a line. It's also a game. As we
Speaker 3: see throughout at least the first half of the film,
Speaker 3: every time they come together, everything he tells her is
Speaker 3: a lie. And when he sees her naked and just
Speaker 3: truth vomits all over her and she immediately makes it
Speaker 3: clear this ain't happening. I love her for that. I
Speaker 3: love her for standing up for herself, for recoiling from
Speaker 3: from all of these lies, And in that moment, that
Speaker 3: might be the first moment where I actually like him,
Speaker 3: for being unable to continue the web of lies he's
Speaker 3: spun to get to this moment. So, you know, I
Speaker 3: definitely don't think there are a couple for the ages,
Speaker 3: and I don't think you're supposed to root for them
Speaker 3: as a couple or even as a one time thing.
Speaker 3: I just kind of love what they bring out about
Speaker 3: each other. You know, the places where she is vulnerable
Speaker 3: despite being you know, smart and clever and popular and
Speaker 3: desired and beautiful the places where he's dumb and inept.
Speaker 3: My favorite thing in the movie is the relationship between
Speaker 3: Tony and Sal and the degree to which that is
Speaker 3: driven by sex and Sal's seemingly effortless success at everything
Speaker 3: and Tony just stumbling after him, emulating everything he does
Speaker 3: past a certain point, obviously hungering to be him, until
Speaker 3: he comes up up against that wall of watching him
Speaker 3: shoot up and then just has to stumble away. I
Speaker 3: love the dynamic. I love the relationship there, and I
Speaker 3: think that romance is the emotional heart of the film,
Speaker 3: even more so than you know, than Tony's relationship with uh,
Speaker 3: with the chef or with Nancy.
Speaker 1: That's bold, really, I mean, I I think I think
Speaker 1: I'm kind of with you, because I do. I do
Speaker 1: think that character, the sole character, is really a strong
Speaker 1: one in all the ways. That's to articulate, but I do.
Speaker 1: But boy, Antonio Benderas is so good in this though,
Speaker 1: and I think there's I think there's so much complexity
Speaker 1: to that relationship, to that to that mentor protege relationship,
Speaker 1: because I think it does end up cutting both ways,
Speaker 1: and that the chef does need another kick in the
Speaker 1: pants is kind of given up, as you know, is
Speaker 1: in a position where he can run this restaurant and
Speaker 1: make it okay and and sort of needs a little
Speaker 1: bit of inspiration. But at the same time, you know,
Speaker 1: he's playing with fire because he's he's he's taking on
Speaker 1: this combustible talent who literally he lights his restaurant on
Speaker 1: fire ultimately at the end, so he ends up paying
Speaker 1: for it and betrays him in different ways. I think
Speaker 1: it's fascinating round me again of just how good Antonio
Speaker 1: Benderos is as an actor. As if we need any
Speaker 1: more reminders, I thought this in the last Amadovar film
Speaker 1: that he did, Glory. Yes, I think that's just a
Speaker 1: top drawer. Yeah, amadov of Ar film. You know my
Speaker 1: maybe my favorite Bendera's performance ever. And I think a
Speaker 1: lot of that soul he brings to this movie. I
Speaker 1: think it's just one of those things where sometimes an
Speaker 1: actor ages and that age just plays so beautifully. You know,
Speaker 1: all that experience just just you know, in his ability
Speaker 1: to just act confidently and within character on screen, and
Speaker 1: there's just in bringing all that, all of those years
Speaker 1: of acting and living into a role. I think that
Speaker 1: does a lot for this movie.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think he's aged into someone that is really fascinating,
Speaker 2: and that sort of like embraces being that elder statesman. Again,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna be like very pedantic and annoying and say
Speaker 2: that something else that I liked about the Kitchen Confidential
Speaker 2: chapters and why it felt to me like those chapters
Speaker 2: were helpful and understanding who Bordain becomes down the line
Speaker 2: is he does talk a lot about like the Portuguese
Speaker 2: cultural elements of Provincetown and how like the restaurant that
Speaker 2: he was working at, like there was this Portuguese stew
Speaker 2: that they would make all the time, and like there
Speaker 2: was a very distinct impact of that food cuisine on
Speaker 2: like what people were eating at the time. There is
Speaker 2: this part of me that is like you could have
Speaker 2: said that Antonio Banderas's character was Portuguese, and you could
Speaker 2: have included like a little bit more about that cultural element,
Speaker 2: but then I think it runs into the question of,
Speaker 2: like you cast Antonio Banderas and he's Spanish, he's not Portuguese,
Speaker 2: Like all these other elements would come out of that.
Speaker 2: But I just remember reading those aspects of those chapters
Speaker 2: and thinking like he was being exposed through the summer
Speaker 2: in France and through like the Portuguese cooking tradition into
Speaker 2: seeing like other parts of the world as food destinations
Speaker 2: with like very distinct relationships between the people who lived
Speaker 2: there and the food they ate. So again, I just
Speaker 2: I wish there was like a little bit more of
Speaker 2: that texture, I think to that relationship.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think I think if I recall that,
Speaker 1: I feel like I saw and reason maybe wrote in
Speaker 1: my review itself that that identifying the chef is Portuguese.
Speaker 1: But I think that does feel like outside information that
Speaker 1: got in is stuff that really isn't either isn't in
Speaker 1: the movie or is in the movie in a.
Speaker 2: Way, I think sal says something either Sal or Stavi
Speaker 2: says something like, we don't know where he came from.
Speaker 2: He might be Spanish, he might be Portuguese, we don't
Speaker 2: know anything about his past, we don't even know his name,
Speaker 2: and it just becomes this sort of like mythical figure
Speaker 2: rather than someone who has like specific teristics.
Speaker 3: I thought, to me very much felt like set up,
Speaker 3: like surely there's going to come a time when we
Speaker 3: find out all of this stuff, like when he unburdens
Speaker 3: himself to the protagonist and only the protagonist. And I
Speaker 3: actually kind of like that they kept him mysterious, like
Speaker 3: I think if they tried to pin that down too
Speaker 3: and then he became this specific influence on Anthony Boordian's
Speaker 3: cooking and palette, that would have gone into that like
Speaker 3: walk hard area a little bit where it might have
Speaker 3: been just like a little too on the nose in
Speaker 3: terms of and here's the origin story of Indiana Jones hat,
Speaker 3: and here's how he got the whip, and here's how
Speaker 3: he got the scar, and you know, blah blah blah.
Speaker 3: So I'm I'm fine with keeping that vague. Also, you know,
Speaker 3: if it means that you get Antonio banderis in there,
Speaker 3: he's He has just been a really long time favorite
Speaker 3: of mine. A few episodes back, we talked about Chiwateel
Speaker 3: Edgy four and just like following his career and how
Speaker 3: strong he is and like what a presence he is
Speaker 3: whenever he should up. And Antonio Barondaris has also been
Speaker 3: that for me. I think maybe since Desperado, which I
Speaker 3: can directly credit to like me personally discovering Pedro Motavars.
Speaker 3: Like backwork, I was just kind of like chasing Antonio
Speaker 3: banderas movies after that. So yeah, I like how he's
Speaker 3: aged into this sort of you know, snarky, knowledgeable character
Speaker 3: emeritus who can be very you know, still having some
Speaker 3: of that intensity that he had in his youth, but
Speaker 3: keeping it banked the way he does here. You know,
Speaker 3: there's a lot under the surface without him having to
Speaker 3: blow up much except when he does. Oh the moment
Speaker 3: when when he just says, I liked you, You're the
Speaker 3: sin eater. Yeah, instead of blowing up. Such a good
Speaker 3: moment in the movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think I think the movie benefits
Speaker 1: from Like, I like the dynamic between Beers and Cess,
Speaker 1: and I think Sessa's for a young actor, has a
Speaker 1: has a nice amount of restraint as well. I think,
Speaker 1: I mean, this is a character who is overconfident in brash,
Speaker 1: but I don't feel like he overplays any any of that.
Speaker 1: He's he's an actor who uses confidence, uh certainly, and
Speaker 1: but doesn't doesn't overdo it. It feels it kind of
Speaker 1: their dynamic feels you know, kind of lived in and
Speaker 1: right tonally. I mean, it's funny to think about this
Speaker 1: film in terms of we talk about walk Hard and
Speaker 1: about the bio pick. It's like, just for this film
Speaker 1: just to avoid a lot of those things gives it
Speaker 1: so much credit beyond what it actually does. But but
Speaker 1: I think, you know, as I was saying before, I
Speaker 1: think you do have that memory of Bordain I think
Speaker 1: does inform your experience of this movie, and I think it,
Speaker 1: and I think the movie knows that it plays with that,
Speaker 1: and then of course gives you this ending where Eric
Speaker 1: Repair shows up, you know, as part of this is
Speaker 1: board at the Hulinary Institute, and it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: I guess it's if you know, you know. But but
Speaker 1: but I think this film does kind of count on
Speaker 1: you knowing or rewards you knowing about Portain and allowing
Speaker 1: those feelings that you might have for him and his
Speaker 1: journey to kind of, you know, feed into your impression
Speaker 1: of him at this time and you know where he's going,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 3: I looked up the quote from Kitchen Confidential and he
Speaker 3: describes himself as a spoiled, miserable, narcissistic, self destructive, and
Speaker 3: thoughtless young lout badly in need of a good ass kicking.
Speaker 3: And I feel like a lot of this movie is
Speaker 3: about watching him get his ass kicked, and that's you know,
Speaker 3: there's really just like breaking bad levels of I don't
Speaker 3: necessarily like or root for anybody in this story, but
Speaker 3: that's what makes it fascinating that that's what makes the
Speaker 3: relationships interesting, and that's kind of what makes it okay
Speaker 3: to watch him getting his ass kicked by life over
Speaker 3: and over and over, whether he's literally getting beaten up,
Speaker 3: dumped in the street and then and then robbed by
Speaker 3: sl two seconds later tell chef, oh yeah, he got wrong,
Speaker 3: without without copying of the fact that he's the one
Speaker 3: that did it to you know, the endless water dumpings
Speaker 3: and you know, his his one little stab at improving
Speaker 3: the restaurant coming down so disastrously. Like this movie starts
Speaker 3: with him in a very obnoxious place and then is
Speaker 3: about watching him like get his ass kicked until he's
Speaker 3: capable of listening to other people. How can you not
Speaker 3: find that at least some satisfying.
Speaker 1: Indeed, well, we have we have a lot more to
Speaker 1: talk about with relation to Tony, but we also want
Speaker 1: to bring rid Atuei back into the conversation, so we'll
Speaker 1: do that, but first we're going to take a break
Speaker 1: before we get the connections. The next pressure show is
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Speaker 3: You know what, I'm sorry, brother, you're cook help me
Speaker 3: flight these.
Speaker 1: You bea help me out. I'm behind, Please.
Speaker 3: Jesus nicely live.
Speaker 1: Job rerookiating me. Now it's time for connections, when we
Speaker 1: bring these two films together, talk about all the things
Speaker 1: they have in common. Tasha, what do you got for
Speaker 1: us here?
Speaker 3: I guess I was thinking when I kind of giggled
Speaker 3: at the end of that talking about how you can't
Speaker 3: help but love a guy who deserves an ass kicking
Speaker 3: getting one. I giggled because I thought, you know, everything
Speaker 3: that I said about Ratitui just being an example of
Speaker 3: the character wants something you can't have it, want something
Speaker 3: you can't have it, wants something he can't have it,
Speaker 3: gets it kind of cycle. Tony's almost the exact opposite.
Speaker 3: Tony is, I don't want this. I don't want this.
Speaker 3: I don't want this. Okay, Finally the ass kicking stops
Speaker 3: because I've stopped being such a douche that I deserve it.
Speaker 3: I think it's interesting that the protagonist in one of
Speaker 3: these movies knows from the very start, maybe not that
Speaker 3: he wants to be a chef, but just kind of
Speaker 3: like what he wants. He wants to be in the
Speaker 3: world of cuisine and cookie. He wants to be doing
Speaker 3: amazing things with food, and he wants other people to
Speaker 3: recognize that. He wants to be able to share it
Speaker 3: with somebody, he wants to be able to talk to
Speaker 3: somebody about it. And Tony really doesn't get to that
Speaker 3: place until the very end of the movie. To some
Speaker 3: degree he does over the Lobster Thermidor, but again we're
Speaker 3: back to he just wants to get laid. He just
Speaker 3: wants to impress me.
Speaker 1: It's get two words with one stone, Tasha.
Speaker 3: He anyway, Yeah, just their character arcs are very different,
Speaker 3: and I think that it's interesting that we're given this
Speaker 3: impression that I think that it's interesting that we're giving
Speaker 3: this impression that Remy is just so exceptional, like such
Speaker 3: a proggy in his skill with smelling, his skill with tasting,
Speaker 3: his skill with invention, with instinctively understanding what things go together,
Speaker 3: and we don't ever get that with Tony at all.
Speaker 3: There's nothing that says he is particularly suited for this work,
Speaker 3: Like even his big innovation, his big like trying to
Speaker 3: get laid an effort comes from a cookbook and from
Speaker 3: tradition and leaning on this well established dish. So I
Speaker 3: think it's interesting that ultimately Ratitui is about a character
Speaker 3: that's good at something finally being allowed to do it
Speaker 3: and finally being acknowledged for it, whereas Tony is much
Speaker 3: more like the world of gourmet cooking needs Remy and
Speaker 3: doesn't know it. The world of cooking in general and
Speaker 3: restaurants doesn't need Tony. He's just another guy. It's about
Speaker 3: what it brings to him as opposed to what he
Speaker 3: brings to it. It's about him finding a passion as
Speaker 3: opposed to having a passion that he's not allowed to express.
Speaker 3: So you know, unless you try, count trying to get
Speaker 3: with Nancy as the passion that he really really wants
Speaker 3: to express and doesn't get to.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I don't even think not to say that
Speaker 2: to me, he didn't feel like he had passion, But
Speaker 2: it felt like a movie to continue your thought Tasha,
Speaker 2: about like this man needs to get his ass kicked,
Speaker 2: a movie about like Tony getting disciplined in a certain way,
Speaker 2: like facing consequences and facing like, you know, real effects
Speaker 2: of his actions and realizing like, oh I like this actually,
Speaker 2: like it's probably good that someone in some aspect of
Speaker 2: the universe is putting me in my place. Like, I
Speaker 2: feel like there's also an element here. You know, we
Speaker 2: haven't really talked about the bear, but there is a
Speaker 2: little bit of an element of like me thinking a
Speaker 2: lot about like the Richie arc while watching this movie,
Speaker 2: like someone who is like an outsider in an asshole
Speaker 2: and thinks he's a little bit better than everybody else
Speaker 2: and thinks all this is a little bit beneath him,
Speaker 2: and then realizes like there's something in the routine, the pattern,
Speaker 2: talking to people, being in a communal space, all of
Speaker 2: that has an effect on him.
Speaker 1: Forks, it's the Forks, it's the.
Speaker 3: Forks art and giving people what they want and what
Speaker 3: they need and making them feel special. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: as some aspects that aren't just about the food, but
Speaker 3: about about the presentation and the place of food and culture.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean you think about these two characters really
Speaker 1: both have kind of the similar starting space, and that
Speaker 1: they haven't worked in the kitchen before and they're starting
Speaker 1: from the bottom, and one of them is having to
Speaker 1: do it in secret because he's a rat. But there
Speaker 1: is no chance if Remy is given the kind of
Speaker 1: opportunity that Tony has given that he would not seize
Speaker 1: upon it in a way that was with a tremendous
Speaker 1: amount of passion and discipline and drive. And of course
Speaker 1: there is that past vivity to Tony as a guy
Speaker 1: whose motives are not, you know, to be a great,
Speaker 1: great chef. That's not something he's thinking about. It's something
Speaker 1: he has to be, you know, as you say, sort
Speaker 1: of beaten. It has to be sort of beaten and
Speaker 1: disciplined into him, or he has to have these moments
Speaker 1: of revelation where it's like, wait a minute, actually this
Speaker 1: is something that's exciting, and he sort of falls into
Speaker 1: it that way, rather than push it, rather than asserting
Speaker 1: himself in the way that Remy does.
Speaker 3: Remy is also a character, I mean, apart from needing
Speaker 3: to cook, needing to express himself, he needs somebody to
Speaker 3: talk to, He needs somebody who he can reflect ideas
Speaker 3: off of. And the fact that he ends up with
Speaker 3: this like little imaginary Gusto in his head because he
Speaker 3: can't talk to his family at all. I can't talk
Speaker 3: to other humans. Is kind of low key a tragedy
Speaker 3: along the lines of the Toys and Toy story. Being
Speaker 3: immortal and desperately all desperately hungering for the love and
Speaker 3: intention of people who grow up. He has this giant
Speaker 3: unmet need that even by the end, is only kind
Speaker 3: of partially met. You know, he never learns to speak human.
Speaker 3: He still can't communicate with his partners except with you know,
Speaker 3: thumbs up and whatnot. Whereas Tony pushes people away with
Speaker 3: his words, he's just he's a giant cloud of talking
Speaker 3: and not listening, of lying to get his way to
Speaker 3: can just kind of like putting everything he can out
Speaker 3: there to try to make people impressed with him. His
Speaker 3: constant lying about being out here on a fellowship and
Speaker 3: you know, being selected to write his great novel, which
Speaker 3: is no interest in and being a writer, not a
Speaker 3: not a chef or not not a cook or not
Speaker 3: someone who works at a restaurant. But they're both very
Speaker 3: lonely characters. They just express it in radically different ways
Speaker 3: and with radically different results.
Speaker 1: Tasha Guy, I guess I'm stuck on the toy story thing.
Speaker 1: About the about the about the tragic immortality of those toys.
Speaker 1: That justasha not correct. She is she is correct. I mean,
Speaker 1: and I think I think maybe uh Woodies, uh you
Speaker 1: know hairline in Toy Story five is affected my thinking
Speaker 1: on that, but it is it is something. It is
Speaker 1: what a terrible what a terrible life it is for
Speaker 1: these poor toys?
Speaker 3: Uh who are who have you just not dipped into
Speaker 3: a toy story? Like people have been writing about this
Speaker 3: since the first one. I know, I recently rewatched all
Speaker 3: of them after watching five, so it's kind of top
Speaker 3: of mind again as things that people talk about when
Speaker 3: they're talking about Pixar.
Speaker 2: It's very replicant coded to me, you wouldn't believe the
Speaker 2: things I've seen. Yeah, I like that. I do like
Speaker 2: the idea of Remy and Tony both being very lonely
Speaker 2: because I think that feeds nicely into the there responding
Speaker 2: to kitchen culture. I think it's a little bit more
Speaker 2: Linguini that's responding to like the feel of being in
Speaker 2: the kitchen and like doing the things and being responsible
Speaker 2: for something that's part of like what everybody else is doing.
Speaker 2: But those are really my favorite scenes of Tony are
Speaker 2: like the chaos of everybody working together, like Antonio banderis
Speaker 2: yelling out orders, the chaos of opening the oyster shells
Speaker 2: and like dropping the fries, all that stuff. I mean,
Speaker 2: that's the stuff that I loved from the Bear, like
Speaker 2: throughout the five seasons, just the process. And I do
Speaker 2: think that there is like a very nice focus on
Speaker 2: process in Tony that is similar to like BlackBerry and
Speaker 2: how interested Matt Johnson felt in BlackBerry about like how
Speaker 2: this stuff actually works. I think there's a very nice
Speaker 2: question of like how does this actually work in Tony
Speaker 2: that takes us back to Ratitui and the explanation of
Speaker 2: like your station and why you should be proud of it,
Speaker 2: and like what everybody does and how we parcel this
Speaker 2: all out. Like that sort of organization I think is
Speaker 2: very nicely mirrored between them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the other kind. One of the other really
Speaker 1: big connections there it's worth talking about is kitchen culture
Speaker 1: and how it's sort of reflected in both films because
Speaker 1: those spaces are so different in the expectation that people
Speaker 1: bring to those spaces those restaurants is vastly different, because
Speaker 1: you know, you have, you know, the flagship, which is
Speaker 1: you know, I think understood as a mediocrity is not
Speaker 1: you know, not you know, kind of the sort of
Speaker 1: tourist seafood that you get to these types of towns, right,
Speaker 1: not not not a place that this is that that
Speaker 1: actually houses a chef who's capable of more. Whereas Gusteau
Speaker 1: Gusseau's is, you know, an institution and a great deal
Speaker 1: is expected of it and and uh it is being
Speaker 1: of course sold out by the current chef and his
Speaker 1: kind of commercial aspirations. But what do you end up
Speaker 1: with in these two movies are too vastly different spaces
Speaker 1: that that nonetheless do have an order, do you know,
Speaker 1: people do have jobs and and uh, and they are
Speaker 1: kind of doing the same tasks in their in their stations,
Speaker 1: but in uh, at the Flagship, it's it's a tight space,
Speaker 1: so it's it's really chaotic. Gusta's as much more a
Speaker 1: professional operation, is kind of compromised as it is as
Speaker 1: much as they've been leaning on dishes that are maybe
Speaker 1: getting a little bit dated and needing a bit of inspiration.
Speaker 1: The process is very you know, exact and professional and
Speaker 1: what you would expect from from a restaurant like.
Speaker 2: That, obviously there's no moment in the family friendly Ratitui
Speaker 2: where a character has sex with a new bride who
Speaker 2: is visiting the restaurant, which was such a random moment
Speaker 2: in Tony. But he's from Kitchen Confidential, so I liked
Speaker 2: that that was in there.
Speaker 1: Yes, Sal Sald keeps delivering.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Sal just keeps on going his little door notch thing.
Speaker 3: It's again, when when we're talking about like character beats
Speaker 3: that are not verbally explained, you're just expected to be
Speaker 3: watching and paying attention and take it in. I really
Speaker 3: like that one. It's not a notch on the bedpost,
Speaker 3: it's a notch on the doorframe. And then the fact
Speaker 3: that Tony later uses it to kind of a kil
Speaker 3: Ry esque Wait, has Sal been here?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Need I need to not mess around in here? Sal's
Speaker 3: been here. I think it's also just kind of fun, though,
Speaker 3: that the two restaurants in these movies are moving in
Speaker 3: opposite directions. You know, in Rabitui, we've got a former
Speaker 3: Michelin star restaurant that's on the decline and the chef
Speaker 3: is selling out on the side with all of these
Speaker 3: fast food sponsorship spin offs. In Tony, we've got you know,
Speaker 3: this former Michel insur star chef who is now making
Speaker 3: fast food but by the end of the movie is
Speaker 3: back on the rise and back to improving is food.
Speaker 3: And the fact that we've kind of got two different
Speaker 3: things that are the same arc but in the opposite direction.
Speaker 3: I think it's just kind of fun to me, especially
Speaker 3: given the protagonist part in both of those kind of
Speaker 3: being like, let's push back towards quality in spite of
Speaker 3: the opposite direction issue.
Speaker 2: Tasha, do you feel like both movies are saying like
Speaker 2: rustic food is superior.
Speaker 3: I don't know if Flopster thermodor accounts as well.
Speaker 2: I was thinking of the cookout because it feels like
Speaker 2: the coke out. I feel like the cookout is what
Speaker 2: inspires bend Erris's character to like give it another go.
Speaker 1: So did you say rustic or local rustic? But I'm
Speaker 1: just saying, like you feel like emphasis, Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: that is. The emphasis is like getting what is the
Speaker 1: essence of this space that's being you know, evoked in
Speaker 1: these movies, I think, But I think it's it is
Speaker 1: interesting that I think that's almost kind of a trick
Speaker 1: in a way, or like like an incredible a feat
Speaker 1: that Remy is pulling by taking, as you say, a
Speaker 1: rustic dislike Ratituiot and elevating it or making it something
Speaker 1: special and something that triggers memories and this sort of
Speaker 1: thing that another connection I guess we should get into
Speaker 1: is the creation of special dishes in these movies, Like
Speaker 1: they're so pivotal to both stories of the creation of
Speaker 1: Ratituis as the climactic dish and then the lobster humadore
Speaker 1: that Tony inspires Chef to try to execute at the restaurant.
Speaker 3: I think it's fun that both of these movies kind
Speaker 3: of have a montage moment of we're creating this one
Speaker 3: special dish for this one person to impress them. That
Speaker 3: immediately metastasizes into Okay, everybody in the restaurant wants that now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because then everybody, like all the lobster thermodore orders
Speaker 2: are coming in. It's just like I just felt like
Speaker 2: lobster thermidore was the downfall, which is why I keep
Speaker 2: thinking about like the cookout as the rise, like the
Speaker 2: communal quality of the cookout, the fact that everybody comes
Speaker 2: back together.
Speaker 1: Oh, I like your.
Speaker 2: Read Tasha on like Tony and Saul, because sal comes
Speaker 2: back he thinks him and Tony are like doing this
Speaker 2: all for fake and like ripping everybody off. And there's
Speaker 2: the very nice moment where Tony and south stare at
Speaker 2: each other and sal realizes like, oh, Tony was never
Speaker 2: gonna be the kid that would do that, And that
Speaker 2: felt like a very important turning point too. Maybe it's
Speaker 2: just because I wanted to eat the cookout food, but
Speaker 2: I just the cookout felt like, you know, you screwed
Speaker 2: up with the Thermidor. You let your ego get in
Speaker 2: the way, you burn down this restaurant. And where we're
Speaker 2: turning to something like simpler that has like a tradition
Speaker 2: here that people want to eat. People want to eat.
Speaker 2: It feels like the most important connection point, as you
Speaker 2: were saying, like people see it and they want to
Speaker 2: eat it. The ratituey and just these like basic paper
Speaker 2: plates of like lobster and core and all these delicious
Speaker 2: looking things. That's what people want.
Speaker 3: That's just the idea of eating lobster off a paper
Speaker 3: plate on a sandy beach with a lobster on top
Speaker 3: of a huge pile of other food is so intersting.
Speaker 2: You're gonna eat so much sand, there's gonna be so
Speaker 2: much sand on more food.
Speaker 3: I kept thinking about that. I'm just like, we're supposed
Speaker 3: to We're supposed to be like eating with our eyes
Speaker 3: since we can't eat this with their mouths. But all
Speaker 3: my eyes are seeing is like all of that food
Speaker 3: has like a good tablespoon of sand.
Speaker 2: There's a Top Chef episode where they had to like
Speaker 2: cook out I think in Hawaii on the beach and
Speaker 2: there was like one team that built their fire wrong,
Speaker 2: so sand kept getting like in the food and it
Speaker 2: was exactly what you're discussing, Tasha, where the judges are
Speaker 2: just like, I'm just eating sand. There's nothing I.
Speaker 1: Can do about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just I just expect that from like any food,
Speaker 3: any food or activity that's that happens on the beach,
Speaker 3: and it's portrayed as romantic, romantic, like don't even get
Speaker 3: me started on from here to eternity and making out
Speaker 3: in the spray scene, it's just sand, sand all the
Speaker 3: way down. And they all they both taste like salt.
Speaker 1: You want to evoke the sand and surf without actually
Speaker 1: taste to get it happen your mouth. Very tricky thing.
Speaker 1: I'm really to trust that they get it right. And
Speaker 1: this client bake, this is a this is but who knows.
Speaker 3: I think that the observation about rural food is really
Speaker 3: smart and something that I had overlooked. But it's certainly yeah,
Speaker 3: it's it's something that hadn't occurred to me, maybe because
Speaker 3: what I took away from kind of the comparison there
Speaker 3: was if I see a message in common with the
Speaker 3: two of these these movies. I mean, on one level,
Speaker 3: it's anyone can cook. Is that that repeated line is
Speaker 3: kind of paralleled with Bendera's telling the Tony character you
Speaker 3: could be anything you want, but what you are right
Speaker 3: now is nothing, which seems like the most t shirtable
Speaker 3: moment in the film. He is saying like you could
Speaker 3: take your skills and do anything with them anywhere, and
Speaker 3: that just feels a lot like like anyone can cook.
Speaker 3: So I think that is a parallel. But for me,
Speaker 3: in terms of like bigger messaging for the films, it's
Speaker 3: maybe more about tasting food is something you can only
Speaker 3: do by yourself, like nobody else can taste that food
Speaker 3: for you. And yet in both of these movies, eating
Speaker 3: with community is so vitally important. Remy. The whole scene
Speaker 3: where Remy tries to convince his brother Emal to slow
Speaker 3: down and taste the food and think about it and
Speaker 3: think about how it combines, and we get those little
Speaker 3: abstract squiggles that characterize how Remy tastes food. Trying to
Speaker 3: form around a meal is he tries to taste the food.
Speaker 3: For me, that experience of like we've put the lobster
Speaker 3: thermidor on your table and now we're gonna watch you
Speaker 3: try it. We've brought you to the camp clam back
Speaker 3: and we're going to eat together as a social community thing.
Speaker 3: Seeing the restaurant at the end with anton Ego there
Speaker 3: surrounded by people who are willing to try something new
Speaker 3: and forgive the rat in the kitchen, like it's all
Speaker 3: about community. It's all about experiencing the very singular solo
Speaker 3: pleasure with other people, even though you can't you can't
Speaker 3: share the sensation, but at least you can share, like
Speaker 3: the company and the shared experience.
Speaker 1: So have you all made or had ratitui? Because I
Speaker 1: I did the three hour ratatouy three or four hours,
Speaker 1: and it is the perfect choice for this movie, is
Speaker 1: a dish because because it would be something that would
Speaker 1: inspire a restaurant full of people to order it. It is.
Speaker 1: It is. It fills your home with with strong, earthy
Speaker 1: herby smells you cannot miss. It is not a shy
Speaker 1: dish at all in terms of the way it's it smells.
Speaker 1: And I think it's it's it's very good, but like
Speaker 1: it's perfect that it's that that's the dish that they
Speaker 1: settled on. And of course and then of course obviously has
Speaker 1: the the word rat in it, which also works. But
Speaker 1: but I think I think it's I think it is, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, it is. It is something that you can
Speaker 1: make in your kitchen like I did, and then you
Speaker 1: could do it in an elevated way, which was which
Speaker 1: is done in the movie. And it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: it's kind of like the perfect dish for them to
Speaker 1: settle on in every possible way. I have no experience
Speaker 1: with lobster humidor though, so I can't speak to that.
Speaker 2: All I was gonna say is, like addition to Tasha's reed,
Speaker 2: is it all just feels to me like intention Like
Speaker 2: Tony realizes in this summer that like he is being
Speaker 2: an asshole because everything he's doing is like reactionary and
Speaker 2: crappy and there isn't real thought or deliberation behind it,
Speaker 2: and I feel like that's part of this too, Like
Speaker 2: you're doing things to a certain degree instinctively, like you're
Speaker 2: tasting things and you're deciding what it needs on the fly,
Speaker 2: but everything is like a thought process that you are
Speaker 2: working through. And I really like that aspect of it
Speaker 2: with Tony and with him sort of like settling into
Speaker 2: the kitchen and becoming more confident and putting more thought
Speaker 2: into his actions. I think again, and like we do
Speaker 2: see that. I do want to give Matt Johnson credit
Speaker 2: for that, and of course we see it in Ratituey,
Speaker 2: but so much of the time we're seeing it from
Speaker 2: like inside the toke, and so it's just it's an
Speaker 2: interesting way to think about like perspective as well, and
Speaker 2: what these two movies are doing differently in terms of
Speaker 2: like they're both being deliberate, they're both thinking things through,
Speaker 2: but you're getting very different like visual perspectives in an
Speaker 2: interesting way.
Speaker 3: To speak to the recipe for Ratituey, I did go
Speaker 3: home and look it up immediately after watching this movie
Speaker 3: for the first time. I took one look at it
Speaker 3: and said, oh, here's something I'm never gonna make, and
Speaker 3: I'm never gonna understand why somebody would appreciate us. I
Speaker 3: don't much care for stewed vegetables, like yes, as a
Speaker 3: stew per se I've pulled up one right here, and
Speaker 3: it just says at the top like it's a dish
Speaker 3: of stewed vegetables. I don't care for like squash or
Speaker 3: eggplant cooked and til they're soft, like like cooked tomatoes.
Speaker 3: Cooked tomatoes make a really excellent like thickener or like
Speaker 3: element in a stew ard chili, but like as a
Speaker 3: main part of the dish, their texture. Not a fan.
Speaker 1: Of do you like time?
Speaker 3: I wish I had more of them.
Speaker 1: That's good stuff. No, it's just I don't know that
Speaker 1: that flavor of roasted vegetables at the time. I don't
Speaker 1: really think about it as even though it does. You
Speaker 1: do get yourself into soft eggplunt that is part of it,
Speaker 1: but oh boy, the time, so it's it's roasted for
Speaker 1: any roasting it for hours an hour. As Tasha, I.
Speaker 3: Also hate cooked bell pepper. I think fresh raw bell
Speaker 3: pepper is amazing and I will eat them like apples,
Speaker 3: but cooked bell pepper is slimy, and any dish with
Speaker 3: it just.
Speaker 2: Tastes like that so Iranian food is very stew based,
Speaker 2: so all of these like cooked vegetables, I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's familiar.
Speaker 3: I really like Iranian food as long as it isn't
Speaker 3: like two egg plants.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and we do have some words too much eggplant,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I feel you.
Speaker 1: But the god the.
Speaker 3: Spice profile of of Iranian food is chef's kiss. I
Speaker 3: like it better than I like the spice profile of
Speaker 3: French food. Sorry, Paris, which makes the best food on
Speaker 3: the world, in the world as far as Rattitui is concerned.
Speaker 2: That time.
Speaker 3: Even roasted time. Yeah, and Middle Eastern, Middle Eastern food
Speaker 3: and Asian food are one I go to faves. So
Speaker 3: like almost all European cooking by comparison, kind of kind
Speaker 3: of taste plan to me.
Speaker 1: Sorry, are we drifting into talking about food?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're doing. We're doing the did we feel hungry
Speaker 2: while watching these movies? And now we're just listing foods
Speaker 2: we would eat?
Speaker 3: So yes, I literally put that on our connections because
Speaker 3: there are a couple more connections I do want to
Speaker 3: get to, so I don't want to consider this the
Speaker 3: exit thing. But Roxana did say something like early on
Speaker 3: about I think in this half a conversation about just
Speaker 3: the conversation making her hungry, And like, I'm also not
Speaker 3: a big seafood fan and I'm definitely not an Oysters fan.
Speaker 3: So everything going on in Tony did not tempt me
Speaker 3: from like a palette perspective. It tempted me just from
Speaker 3: a passion and interest perspective. The food and ratitui for
Speaker 3: the most part, Like, I love the visualization of the
Speaker 3: ratitue itself and how we get to see what it
Speaker 3: looks like in its natural state versus what it looks
Speaker 3: like in this heightened chef state. I think the presentation
Speaker 3: in getting to see how they got to it is
Speaker 3: really fun and a really cool visual But it didn't
Speaker 3: make me hungry. Like, maybe the only thing in the
Speaker 3: movie that really made me feel like, ooh would like
Speaker 3: some of that is the point where Colette is talking
Speaker 3: about bread and the perfect bread sound. So I'm curious
Speaker 3: if either of these movies did make you hungry.
Speaker 2: I generally am hungry most of the time.
Speaker 3: So yeah, you're not a character actor, that is what
Speaker 3: you're saying.
Speaker 2: No, well, I guess I would be a character actor
Speaker 2: because we could eat all the food they did. But
Speaker 2: I do think there's something interesting to your point. I
Speaker 2: think Ratituy is more interested in making the food look
Speaker 2: good and in convincing us that, like Remy is onto
Speaker 2: something and like his guidance of Linguini is taking the
Speaker 2: food to an elevated level. I think that there is
Speaker 2: like a focus on when they're doing the Graton style
Speaker 2: Ratituy just like how beautiful everything looks, the steam, the plating,
Speaker 2: all of that. And Yeah, what we're talking about with
Speaker 2: Tony is like, I don't think food necessarily is the
Speaker 2: draw for Tony the character, so it becomes less of
Speaker 2: a draw for us. And I don't think there is
Speaker 2: as much focus on making it look like super aptizing
Speaker 2: so much as reflecting the skill and effort it required.
Speaker 2: All of that being said, I still yes, I still would,
Speaker 2: I still want the food. I still was.
Speaker 1: Is this something like is it kind of almost like
Speaker 1: the big night scale, like what you know it's like
Speaker 1: or just something like there's certain movies where it's like, yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: the food is definitely it's you know, there's a pornographic
Speaker 1: quality to this food that's coming out. Uh that isn't
Speaker 1: quite I mean, you don't get an either film a
Speaker 1: Big Night level of like, oh my god, this ridiculous
Speaker 1: meal that's being made and consumed here, and that everybody's
Speaker 1: umming and eyeing over that. That that that that experience
Speaker 1: is a little bit more limited. Obviously, anton egos reaction
Speaker 1: to the ratitui is critically important to the film and
Speaker 1: and certainly speaks to the to the flavor and and
Speaker 1: and you do at least get a little bit of
Speaker 1: an impression that that the lobster is going over well
Speaker 1: before the kitchen starts to burn down. But but it is.
Speaker 1: But I think in terms of food itself being you know,
Speaker 1: kind of in itself alluring aspect of both of these films,
Speaker 1: like like in the same way it would be in
Speaker 1: a film like Big Night or Bebet's Feast or something
Speaker 1: like that, not quite as much, type of right, not
Speaker 1: quite as much in this It's just not quite on
Speaker 1: the agenda in either one of these movies.
Speaker 3: You know what movie kind of took me out of
Speaker 3: the film because I wanted the food on screen so badly.
Speaker 3: Crazy rich Asians scene where they're at a street market
Speaker 3: kind of place and have just ordered a table full
Speaker 3: of food, and I don't think I heard a single
Speaker 3: word anybody said in that scene, they're just like, you know,
Speaker 3: blah blah blah, like, get back to the food.
Speaker 2: Where are the doubling?
Speaker 3: Give me the interior looked amazing in that sequence.
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, I figured out the bottom of the scale.
Speaker 1: I've done it. Okay, Okay, it's the it's the cook
Speaker 1: the thief's wife. Okay.
Speaker 3: I would also like put in the crispy crust on
Speaker 3: the dish served at the end in cook fee five
Speaker 3: flov still pretty tempting.
Speaker 1: Not gonna lie, well, yeah to you know, proceed with caution.
Speaker 3: One thing about these movies that is honestly a very
Speaker 3: small thing but stuck with me with both of them,
Speaker 3: because I just feel like it's unusual storytelling and is
Speaker 3: interesting in its accuracy, is that both of them kind
Speaker 3: of portray the kitchen as an itinerant place in a
Speaker 3: way that I think is really true to actual kitchen culture.
Speaker 3: At the end of the movie Ratatui, the whole staff
Speaker 3: walks out. They're just like, we're not going to deal
Speaker 3: with this rat or we're not going to deal with
Speaker 3: your delusions. It's unclear which of those is the response,
Speaker 3: but either way, they're out of there and they don't
Speaker 3: come back. We only get this. I went back and
Speaker 3: rewatched this a couple of times because I wanted to
Speaker 3: be sure. We only get the slightest hint of who's
Speaker 3: actually working the kitchen in the new Ratitui restaurant and
Speaker 3: Linguini's waiting tables, collettes in the kitchen, Remy's in the kitchen.
Speaker 3: That's all we see. There's no indication that any of
Speaker 3: those chefs came back. And Tony sal sal like walks
Speaker 3: out after punching chef after being you know, we offered
Speaker 3: a pretty lenient punishment compared with being fired. He has
Speaker 3: his blow up and he leaves and he never comes back. Instead,
Speaker 3: he tries to rob and defraud the guy, and just
Speaker 3: the idea of kitchens being a place where very rarely
Speaker 3: do people stay long. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 3: movement between kitchens in the industry, something that Bourdain called
Speaker 3: out in Kitchen Confidential. There's just there's a lot of
Speaker 3: fluidity between the places that people work and seeing that
Speaker 3: reflected in different ways in both of these movies in
Speaker 3: ways that kind of set you up for a classic.
Speaker 3: And here's the big feel good moment where everybody comes
Speaker 3: back and like the group that we saw working together
Speaker 3: earlier is reunited happily for happily ever after. Like that
Speaker 3: doesn't happen, and iither with these movies, the people who
Speaker 3: leave leave and the people who stay like get on
Speaker 3: with their lives, because it's not about the specifics of
Speaker 3: the people nearly as much as it is about the
Speaker 3: continuity of the food well.
Speaker 1: And also the focus is on individuals though too. I
Speaker 1: mean like it's much more important for us to know
Speaker 1: to the arc we're following, is that that of Remies
Speaker 1: and that of Tony, not so much the fate of
Speaker 1: the restaurant itself.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I do feel like there is something very
Speaker 2: realistic about reflecting that turnover. Like we have a casual
Speaker 2: friend who is a sue and I think in the
Speaker 2: past two years he's worked at like three places, including
Speaker 2: like helping open a place that eventually went under, and
Speaker 2: now I think it's like his third place in this
Speaker 2: period of time. Like, on the one hand, like you
Speaker 2: helped open a place, you developed a menu, like you
Speaker 2: obviously spent a ton of time doing it, and then
Speaker 2: when it was time to go, you went and you
Speaker 2: found something else. So there is sort of that transferability
Speaker 2: of skills that I think is like on display here,
Speaker 2: maybe less so with Sal because we see that he's
Speaker 2: like working on the docks with his heroin connect and
Speaker 2: that's very concerning to me actually, But that also, I
Speaker 2: mean that also has talked about in Kitchen Confidential that like,
Speaker 2: you know, the rampant drug use in kitchens at that time,
Speaker 2: like sometimes people left and you knew that they weren't
Speaker 2: coming back because they passed away. And I do think
Speaker 2: that there is I don't think Tony is like super
Speaker 2: explicit with what's going to happen with Sel, but I
Speaker 2: do think again, like lingering on the heroin introducing this
Speaker 2: character now being at the point where he wants to,
Speaker 2: you know, like Rob Chef, I think there are indications
Speaker 2: there of like a reality in this industry. Ratitude obviously
Speaker 2: is not going to go there. But I appreciated that
Speaker 2: Tony was not like super romanticizing what the job is. Either.
Speaker 3: Yes, sow the likelihood that Sal dies of a heroin
Speaker 3: overdose like in the next five years seems relatively high,
Speaker 3: but so does the idea that he may just continue
Speaker 3: to I was going to say fail upward, but he
Speaker 3: doesn't fail that's why Tony is so drawn to him.
Speaker 3: It's just it's kind of effortless for him wherever he goes,
Speaker 3: and I feel like the only reason he isn't in
Speaker 3: a higher position is that he just doesn't care enough.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: As long as he's got drug money and food money
Speaker 3: which he might get by, you know, via petty theft
Speaker 3: or fraud or whatever, he feels like he's doing fine.
Speaker 3: He's got what he needs. And seeing that as a model,
Speaker 3: I guess goes up against the you could be anything
Speaker 3: you want to be, but you're nothing. You know. He
Speaker 3: he is what he wants to be. He's the handsome guy.
Speaker 3: He's welcome everywhere he goes, and you know, gets laid
Speaker 3: and gets paid. That seems to be the limit of
Speaker 3: what he wants. So putting that up against Tony's kind
Speaker 3: of wanting to be respected maybe more than anything else,
Speaker 3: and Remy's like very specific, very passionate desires, it's just
Speaker 3: kind of interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, first of all, I Tasha to reference to
Speaker 1: previous point about sal and Tony's relationship with Sally. I
Speaker 1: do think the film is interesting with regard to what
Speaker 1: we know about Bordained that he wasn't done, you know,
Speaker 1: abusing drugs and wasn't out of trouble. But I think
Speaker 1: there is a moment a thing where he at least
Speaker 1: recognizes the demon that he's going to be facing with
Speaker 1: regard to Sal. You know where Sal goes, And I
Speaker 1: think there is this there is at least this acknowledgment
Speaker 1: of Sal as a cautionary tale and as a road
Speaker 1: that he maybe should be wary of, even though he
Speaker 1: follows that road later a bit later on in his life.
Speaker 1: So that's something I think that just you know example,
Speaker 1: I guess of the film that playing with you know,
Speaker 1: our understanding of the person that that Pordaine would become.
Speaker 3: I think when he sees the the injectable heroin use
Speaker 3: and just stands there and watches and then walks away
Speaker 3: very clearly, leaving Sal behind. I think in that moment,
Speaker 3: he is, shall we say, a rat dessert deserting a
Speaker 3: sinking ship, Like he recognizes for the first time that
Speaker 3: this ship is going down and does not want to
Speaker 3: be on it.
Speaker 1: And then he would bore, He would bore that he'd
Speaker 1: bore the ship at some point for that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because he like he teams up with him again
Speaker 2: for the fundraiser, But I do think that it is
Speaker 2: sort of like a alliance of necessity at that point.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, but I'm just saying later in life, he
Speaker 1: would like, like, you know, some pretty different, pretty rough
Speaker 1: drug use definitely be something in his future. I guess
Speaker 1: that one other thing I have down here, I guess
Speaker 1: I have to mention it because I put it down.
Speaker 1: And now I don't know what I was thinking, but
Speaker 1: maybe we can make sense of it, which is which
Speaker 1: is like human like rat behavior and rat like human behavior.
Speaker 1: I think I was thinking that that that rebby as
Speaker 1: as our human, demonstrates human like behavior, and and that
Speaker 1: and that Tony is can be rat like at times.
Speaker 1: But I do I have any Do I have anything
Speaker 1: else to say beyond that? What was I thinking here?
Speaker 3: Hundred percent know what you were thinking, But I loved
Speaker 3: this point to the point where I really pushed for
Speaker 3: you to to bring it up. I do think that.
Speaker 3: I mean, very early on, we get Emil asking asking
Speaker 3: Remy why he walks around in his back legs, and yes, yea,
Speaker 3: to my utter delight, Dad's not gonna like it, you know,
Speaker 3: because it's because it's human behavior, and like the whole
Speaker 3: explanation of like, I don't want my food to taste
Speaker 3: like everywhere my paws have been. I'm tired of washing
Speaker 3: my pause, so therefore I walk around by peada lely.
Speaker 3: I think that's a really fun little lamp shading of
Speaker 3: a thing that he does. Both so you don't have
Speaker 3: to constantly think about where his paws have been every
Speaker 3: time he touches food, and a way of like visually
Speaker 3: distinguishing him in a movie packed with rats. You know,
Speaker 3: he's a blue color that none of the rest of
Speaker 3: them are, but he's still often in a crowd of rats,
Speaker 3: and having a visual like distinctiveness to him, I think
Speaker 3: is a really good idea. It also anthropomorphizes him more
Speaker 3: so I think that's fun.
Speaker 1: Well, let me get me. I can do the second
Speaker 1: half part. I can do the rat like human behavior,
Speaker 1: because now that we're into this, I think that Tony
Speaker 1: one thing that humans tend to have when they make
Speaker 1: their way into the world are resources to live on,
Speaker 1: and that's something that that's something that Tony runs out
Speaker 1: of pretty quickly when the bunny he's purloined from his
Speaker 1: father's wallet runs out and he has to figure out
Speaker 1: you know, he gets kicked out of the bar and
Speaker 1: he's got no cash and he has to kind of
Speaker 1: sort his way through. Then I think that that they
Speaker 1: that rat like resourcefulness comes into play, and he does
Speaker 1: what's necessary to survive, and he does he sleeps ends
Speaker 1: up sleeping in places in a way that a person
Speaker 1: generally does not want to sleep. Uh, you know it
Speaker 1: a hammock. IM not to say that rats like to
Speaker 1: sleep in hammocks, but it is. It's not something that
Speaker 1: a human is going to want to do for too
Speaker 1: long a period of time. And I just think generally,
Speaker 1: you know, there's there's uncompanists. Maybe not a great hygh
Speaker 1: generally speaking, maybe not. Maybe a lot, not a lot
Speaker 1: going on with the Tony character. Uh, there's skittering. Maybe
Speaker 1: he does some skinner I don't know, does he do
Speaker 1: any skittering?
Speaker 2: They each find their clan, right like they each find
Speaker 2: their clan, they each surround themselves with like creatures who
Speaker 2: they realize are aligned with them mentally. What could the
Speaker 2: skittering be, Scott? What could possibly know?
Speaker 1: I mean, he's on hard woods sometimes. I mean you
Speaker 1: can see it's hard not to skitter.
Speaker 3: Sure, he does seem very hunched and rat like a
Speaker 3: lot of the time. One of the one of the
Speaker 3: aspects of sal showing up and being just so conventionally handsome,
Speaker 3: you know, so so symmetrical and like all American with
Speaker 3: his you know, vivid eyes and his blonde hair and whatever.
Speaker 3: Every time he and down't Access are in the same frame,
Speaker 3: it looks like Susa is like deliberately stooping and hunching
Speaker 3: his shoulders both to appear shorter and to some degree
Speaker 3: toppear more like thinner and more angular or feral. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker 3: But but Scott, you hit upon a point that I
Speaker 3: completely had not thought about. That's actually pretty brilliant. Both
Speaker 3: of these films very definitely considering stealing and and what
Speaker 3: it means. Ratitui hitting the point over and over, are
Speaker 3: we thieves? No, we're not thieves. We're we're taking stuff
Speaker 3: nobody wants. Now you're taking food that people want. Now
Speaker 3: your thieves. I'm earned this. I am not a thief.
Speaker 3: Or maybe I'm a thief and I don't care. Maybe
Speaker 3: this is what a rat is is, to be a
Speaker 3: thief versus you know. Basically, the moral debate in Ratitue
Speaker 3: centers around taking things that aren't yours. Whereas there's just
Speaker 3: there's no moral debate in Tony just rips off his
Speaker 3: his father, and Sal turns around and rips him off,
Speaker 3: and then kind of the big turning point for him
Speaker 3: is deciding not to steal and Sal maybe like reluctantly,
Speaker 3: but maybe just with a touch of admiration acknowledging that, no,
Speaker 3: you're not going to like steal all of this money
Speaker 3: from this person who needs it to fix the restaurant
Speaker 3: that you personally destroyed. So yeah, the moral and ethical
Speaker 3: boundaries of theft and what they mean kind of a
Speaker 3: theme in both these movies. Congratulations.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I stumbled on that, Tash. I appreciate the word
Speaker 1: brilliant to describe anything I do, But that was a genius.
Speaker 1: That would be just like inspector cluesau like just stumbling
Speaker 1: into it. Uh So. Ratitui is currently streaming on Disney
Speaker 1: Plus in his rentable in the usual places. It's also
Speaker 1: available on DVD and Blu Ray. Tony is in select theaters.
Speaker 1: Now we'll be right back with your Next Picture Show. Finally,
Speaker 1: it's time to recommend a film or film related item
Speaker 1: that compliments the set of episodes. We call it your
Speaker 1: Next Picture Show. And the hopes that will put something
Speaker 1: interesting on your radar. Rock Sanna, we were we're we've
Speaker 1: seen some some Matt Johnson films. He's scorching hot right now. Uh,
Speaker 1: one of which was is pretty relevant to the one
Speaker 1: we're talking about, because he does have some experience with
Speaker 1: fact based, uh storytelling. What BlackBerry? What do you think
Speaker 1: of BlackBerry?
Speaker 2: I really like BlackBerry. I mean I think to me
Speaker 2: it is sort of like one of the platonic ideals
Speaker 2: of a process based disaster, and that it really does
Speaker 2: track with a lot of like I would maybe even
Speaker 2: call it like succession style Jesse Armstrong style verve visually,
Speaker 2: you know, the rise of BlackBerry, this technology that like
Speaker 2: investors didn't understand, nobody grasped, completely changed the way that
Speaker 2: we live and then, you know, catastrophically failed because they
Speaker 2: made all the mistakes that like expanding companies with investors
Speaker 2: who wanted to like make as much money as they
Speaker 2: can make, they outsourced, you know, how the phones were made.
Speaker 2: They like cut corners, they skimped, They replaced like the
Speaker 2: most valuable people in their company. And I think that
Speaker 2: there is like a real I think like a real
Speaker 2: like visceral anger about you know, about the story that
Speaker 2: animates the film, and yeah, it is very like fact based.
Speaker 2: It is obviously like taken from real life. But I
Speaker 2: think there is like an interesting relationship with time and
Speaker 2: that the movie feels very much like a powder keg,
Speaker 2: although it is spanning years. So I really like the
Speaker 2: tonality and pacing of it. And Jay Barschell and Glenn
Speaker 2: Howerton play like very oppositional characters. Glen Howerton as a
Speaker 2: basically like the deranged sort of businessman that first bankrolled
Speaker 2: BlackBerry and then basically ruined it, and Jay Barrischell is
Speaker 2: the CEO who was a genius and was so focused
Speaker 2: on the science and was innovating everything and then just
Speaker 2: eventually didn't realize that other competitors were copying what they
Speaker 2: were doing to more massive scale, essentially the iPhone. So
Speaker 2: I would say, like, if you if you're sort of interested,
Speaker 2: I think in Tony's life bros being dudes and how
Speaker 2: that can both be really good and really destructive, I
Speaker 2: do think BlackBerry is worth checking out.
Speaker 1: Totally agree. I mean the Glenn, the Glenn Howard and
Speaker 1: performance in particular is so electric and so funny. Again,
Speaker 1: both films Tony and BlackBerry benefit so much from Matt
Speaker 1: Johnson's skill as a director of comedy and and I
Speaker 1: think you get that element too of just you know,
Speaker 1: working independently. I think there's there's something kind of uh,
Speaker 1: you know, Jay Barshell plays somebody who is this genius
Speaker 1: and is starting from the bottom and this sort of
Speaker 1: scrappy way, but he doesn't have, you know, the necessary
Speaker 1: skill or you wouldn't think that necessary to he has
Speaker 1: to attach himself to this guy who has who has
Speaker 1: you know, supposedly the business sense to take his idea
Speaker 1: to the next level to make this into a real company.
Speaker 1: And and of course it it, you know, is up
Speaker 1: planting the seeds for the company's ruination. But just a
Speaker 1: fascinating kind of rise and fall story. But told, you know,
Speaker 1: as you said, very entertaining film for sure. So I
Speaker 1: think as a related movie is kind of a supplemental
Speaker 1: viewing for Tony BlackBerry is a great choice. And I
Speaker 1: also would of course use this opportunity to just throw
Speaker 1: in another recommendation for anyone who has not seen Nirvana
Speaker 1: the Band the Show of the Movie, which was a
Speaker 1: film that was released earlier this year, even though I
Speaker 1: think it premiered last year at Toronto. I think just
Speaker 1: an unbelievably hilarious film that you know, references and plays
Speaker 1: off of Back to the Future, that, like BlackBerry, is
Speaker 1: extremely Canadian. It's about the most Canadian thing you've ever seen.
Speaker 1: So it's at the city of Toronto plays such an
Speaker 1: important role. It comments on time and time travel and
Speaker 1: ingenious ways. There's a lot of interesting in corporates, uh
Speaker 1: you know real there's a there's a stunt involving the
Speaker 1: sea and tower that's uh incredible and funny and and
Speaker 1: uh and uh so so there's a lot of love
Speaker 1: of the city in that as well. So I really
Speaker 1: just uh, it's a it's a good you know now
Speaker 1: has been a really kind of good coming out uh
Speaker 1: party for uh. Matt Johnson is as a as a
Speaker 1: as a talented uh person, And I think all all,
Speaker 1: all three of these movies, Tony, BlackBerry, and Dravana The
Speaker 1: Band Show the Movie are worth your time. That's it
Speaker 1: for this edition of The Next Picture Show, Tasha, Can
Speaker 1: you tell us about our next pairing?
Speaker 3: The End of Oak Street is a radical switch up
Speaker 3: for writer director David Robert Mitchell. The latest from the
Speaker 3: man behind the Gnarly horror movie that follows the dreamy
Speaker 3: l a noir Under the Silver Lake and the suburban
Speaker 3: teen drama. The Myth of the American Sleepover is an
Speaker 3: ambulance entertainment style throwback adventure movie complete with Dinah and
Speaker 3: time travel. Ewan McGregor and Anne Hathaway star as a
Speaker 3: troubled suburban couple raising a pair of teenagers in nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty two in Flowerville, Michigan, When an inexplicable event inundates
Speaker 3: their neighborhood with prehistoric plants and predators. The couple have
Speaker 3: to survive and keep their kids alive, mostly through a
Speaker 3: series of chases, battles, and stalking sequences as a series
Speaker 3: of hungry dinos try to make them into lunch. The
Speaker 3: dark adventure tone, the character dynamics, and the focus on
Speaker 3: a sudden, incomprehensible invasion making life difficult and possibly very
Speaker 3: short for a strained family all reminded us a lot
Speaker 3: of Steven Spielberg's two thousand and five take on War
Speaker 3: of the Worlds, in which Tom Cruise plays a Brooklyn
Speaker 3: blue collar worker trying to shepherd his two kids through
Speaker 3: an alien invasion and reunite them with their mom. His
Speaker 3: estranged wife. So in our next pairing, we'll compare two
Speaker 3: different neighborhoods that fall apart in a science fiction crisis
Speaker 3: and two different families that come together during one.
Speaker 1: For now, we welcome your feedback on Tony Ratituey or
Speaker 1: anything else film Will Lydy you'd like to talk about
Speaker 1: email us at comments at next Picture Show Dot debt
Speaker 1: or leaves a voicemail at seven seven three two three
Speaker 1: four at nine seven three zero before we close out
Speaker 1: this week's episode. Where can we find everyone these days?
Speaker 1: Atasha Robinson you.
Speaker 3: Can still find me recapping dropouts Game Changer over at Vulture.
Speaker 3: Otherwise it's taken a little bit of a break, and
Speaker 3: you can find me on Blue Sky occasionally at Tasha Robinson, Roxanna,
Speaker 3: how about you?
Speaker 2: You can find me at Vulture and you can find
Speaker 2: me at Blue Sky. It is r O X A
Speaker 2: N A dash h A d A d I Roxannahdatti
Speaker 2: and I am still on x Scott what about you?
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can find me a lot of the time
Speaker 1: at the reveal of the newsletter I write with Keith Gipps.
Speaker 1: That's the reveal dot film I just file today. It
Speaker 1: would be certainly up be up by now a very
Speaker 1: long piece about one of my favorite August movies, Ricky
Speaker 1: and the Flash, by Jonathan Demi. So that's there, a
Speaker 1: bunch of other things. You can also find me at
Speaker 1: The New York Times, Vulture, Guardian, and other other fine publications.
Speaker 1: I'm on Blue Sky at Scott Tobias our absent co host,
Speaker 1: Keith the Course is also at The Reveal and other publications.
Speaker 1: He is on Blue Sky at k Phipps three thousand,
Speaker 1: our absent co host, Jim vcosis, a senior TV editor
Speaker 1: at Vulture. She is almost ever on social media, but
Speaker 1: you can find her at Genevieve Koski on Blue Sky,
Speaker 1: and she does posts some dog and garden photos and
Speaker 1: videos on Instagram sometimes. It's so that's very entertaining, Roxanna,
Speaker 1: thank you again for joining us. It with such a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Thank you Eric, such a great guest. So we'll do
Speaker 1: it again sometime soon. You can stay updated on the
Speaker 1: Next Picture Show at Next Picture Show dot net and
Speaker 1: on Blue Sky at the Next Picture Show, get bonus
Speaker 1: content and open discussion at patreon dot com slash Next
Speaker 1: Picture Show, and as always, we appreciate your ratings and
Speaker 1: review use on Apple podcasts or Spotify or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to the show. Thanks to Dan the Big Jakes
Speaker 1: for his assists of producing this podcast. The Next Picture
Speaker 1: Show is proud to be part of the Film Spotting
Speaker 1: family of podcasts. Please tune in next time.
Speaker 3: That was a good movie.
Speaker 1: Yeah, seen here before once