1 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. Hello, and welcome back to it could 2 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:11,600 Speaker 1: happen here. I'm your occasional host, Molly Conger, and it's 3 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: just me today. But I've got a weird one for 4 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: you now. I don't know if you remember, but a 5 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: few months ago I did an episode about a ring 6 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:23,759 Speaker 1: of Hitler loving zoom bombers running a national campaign to 7 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: disrupt public meetings. Those guys were mostly members of the 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,720 Speaker 1: Goyam Defense League, an anti Semitic group of freaks who 9 00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:33,639 Speaker 1: just love getting a rise out of people. They were 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: calling themselves the City Council Death Squad, and they've disrupted 11 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,160 Speaker 1: hundreds of virtual public meetings from coast to coast over 12 00:00:40,159 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: the last year, everything from zoning boards in New Jersey 13 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,080 Speaker 1: to city council meetings in California, even dipping their toe 14 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: into messing with online meetings of alcoholics anonymous. They mostly 15 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: seem motivated by their insatiable need to force strangers to 16 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 1: hear them say the N word, But I do think 17 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 1: they understand that their behavior limits people's access to local government. 18 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:03,920 Speaker 1: Many of the cities they targeted responded by ending virtual 19 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:08,040 Speaker 1: participation in government meetings. That means fewer people participate. It's 20 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 1: harder to engage with local government, and people just generally 21 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 1: feel less safe and less motivated to pursue the kinds 22 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: of redress available to them through local democracy. And I'm 23 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 1: glad we did the episode. I heard from people in 24 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: maybe a dozen cities all over the country who found 25 00:01:22,000 --> 00:01:24,080 Speaker 1: the episode online when they were trying to figure out 26 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 1: what the hell happened at their own meeting and the 27 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: guy's doing it. Liked the episode so much that now 28 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:31,520 Speaker 1: they use my name when they call into meetings to 29 00:01:31,520 --> 00:01:35,600 Speaker 1: scream slurs, which is a less positive outcome, But what 30 00:01:35,680 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: can you do. I assume if the mayor of Redlands, 31 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:40,680 Speaker 1: California googles me, he'll figure out I wasn't the one 32 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 1: doing holocaust denial at his meeting. But overall, this seems 33 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: like the kind of thing that we be prosecutable, especially 34 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,600 Speaker 1: considering we know the real names of many of the 35 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,720 Speaker 1: group's ringleaders. Well, someone has finally been indicted for orchestrating 36 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: hateful zoom bombing and virtual city council meetings, But it 37 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:04,320 Speaker 1: isn't them. It's something much much weirder. Last month, FEDS 38 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: unsealed an indictment against a man named Mohammad al Hashemi. 39 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:12,480 Speaker 1: He's a Syrian national from Albania currently living in England, 40 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 1: and according to the federal prosecutor, he was the mastermind 41 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:17,880 Speaker 1: behind a zoom bombing ring that targeted the Fresno City 42 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: Council in the summer of twenty twenty. He's been charged 43 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: with one count of engaging in repeated harassing communication, one 44 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 1: count of engaging in anonymous telecommunications harassment, three counts of 45 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:33,639 Speaker 1: a classic eighteen USC. Eight seventy five C transmitting threatening communications, 46 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:38,399 Speaker 1: and one count of conspiracy for doing all of the above. Right, 47 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 1: So there's a conspiracy, and then those other charges represent 48 00:02:42,080 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 1: the overt acts of that conspiracy. Now again, I'm not 49 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,839 Speaker 1: a lawyer. I'll tell you that every time. I don't 50 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: know all the laws, and so this is the first 51 00:02:52,360 --> 00:02:55,640 Speaker 1: time I'm realizing that harassing someone by phone is a 52 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,359 Speaker 1: federal crime. I mean, it makes sense, right, of course, 53 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,640 Speaker 1: that's illegal at the federal level too. I just didn't 54 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: think about that the last time we were talking about 55 00:03:03,400 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 1: zoom bombing. I mean, the obvious charge is interstate threats. 56 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 1: If you make a threat using a phone, the Internet, 57 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 1: or the mail, that's federal territory. But prosecutors are sometimes 58 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,280 Speaker 1: a little gun shy about threats. They want a slam 59 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: dunk case. They want a true threat, right, something that 60 00:03:18,639 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: is undeniably an actual threat, before they'll bring a case 61 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:24,320 Speaker 1: like that. So I thought they'd have to get a 62 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 1: little creative if they wanted to indict zoom bombers. But 63 00:03:27,720 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: if you're just talking about harassing phone calls, it's actually 64 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 1: pretty straightforward to bring a federal case against the guys 65 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: doing this. So two of the charges of the indictment 66 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:40,800 Speaker 1: are for different subsections of forty seven USC. Two twenty 67 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 1: three Obscene or harassing phone calls Subsection A one c 68 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 1: is making a telephone call or utilizing a telecommunications device, right, 69 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 1: So that means it doesn't have to be a literal telephone. 70 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: It can be a zoom call, it can be in 71 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 1: any kind of telecommunications device like text message, et cetera, 72 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: whether or not conversation or communication ensues, which means you know, 73 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: repeated harassing hang up calls. Count two, you don't even 74 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,440 Speaker 1: have to say anything without disclosing his identity and with 75 00:04:07,520 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: the intent to abuse, threatn or harass a specific person. Right. 76 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: So this subsection is specific to the fact that they 77 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: were using fake names and then subsection A one E 78 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:20,839 Speaker 1: is making repeated telephone calls or repeatedly initiating communication with 79 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 1: the telecommunications device during which conversation or communication ensues solely 80 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: to harass any specific person. Both of those counts carry 81 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: a maximum sentence of two years, and they're usually just 82 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,560 Speaker 1: punished with a fine. Not that serious. The other counts 83 00:04:35,600 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: are a little more serious. Interstate threatening communications can get 84 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:40,640 Speaker 1: you up to five years per count, and some of 85 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: these calls had some pretty violent language. I'm interested to 86 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,159 Speaker 1: see how they move forward with the threats, though the 87 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,679 Speaker 1: actual intent or ability to carry out a threat doesn't 88 00:04:48,680 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 1: necessarily matter if the person the threat was made to 89 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 1: was in reasonable fear from it. But I'm sure we'll see. 90 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: It argued that he was in Albania, he never planned 91 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: to go to Fresno to hurt people. The obvious counter 92 00:04:59,839 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: to the though, is that he did literally say he 93 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: was in Fresno, and there was no obvious indication to 94 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 1: the victims that that wasn't true. And he's also charged 95 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: with conspiracy. The indictment refers multiple times to unnamed co conspirators, 96 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 1: so this isn't just one guy making racist, praying phone calls. 97 00:05:15,640 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 1: This is an organized and intentional conspiracy to engage in 98 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: harassment and threats. That conspiracy is a little grim. The 99 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:28,360 Speaker 1: FBI in the UK's Metropolitan Police Force did find an 100 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: interview at least nine members of the group. They're saying 101 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: al Hacemi was leading, and the reason they aren't named 102 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: is because they are children. The children interviewed by the 103 00:05:37,960 --> 00:05:40,920 Speaker 1: FBI had pretty consistent accounts. Once there was a federal 104 00:05:40,920 --> 00:05:43,000 Speaker 1: agent in their living room telling their mom about the 105 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: Albanian Nazi they'd been chatting with on roadblocks. Okay, not 106 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:50,920 Speaker 1: exactly roadblocks, that's a little hyperbolic, but the raids were 107 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,000 Speaker 1: coordinated on a platform called Gilded, which is kind of 108 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:56,799 Speaker 1: like Discord and is owned by the same company as Roadblocks, 109 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:00,600 Speaker 1: so it's mostly used by gamers to talk about gaming, 110 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: but also apparently for doing federal crimes. But the kids 111 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: all said the group's leaders were users named Encino that's 112 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:10,919 Speaker 1: I ns E E n O, not in Sino like 113 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:15,520 Speaker 1: Encino Man the poly Shore movie and Sapper. Many of 114 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,480 Speaker 1: the kids correctly ascertained that Encino, the user FEDS have 115 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:22,640 Speaker 1: identified as Alhachemi, was older than they were and European, 116 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 1: but spoke English very well. I went back and pulled 117 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: the public access TV recordings of some of those meetings 118 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: and listened to the calls attributed to Alhachemi. And he 119 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 1: really doesn't have an accent that I could hear. You know, 120 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 1: you don't got a handed to him or anything. But 121 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:38,800 Speaker 1: he does say the N word like a red blooded 122 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: American racist, so I guess he had some practice. The kid, 123 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:45,719 Speaker 1: interviewed by the Metropolitan Police Service at his parents' house 124 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 1: in London, said that Sapper was a college student in 125 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 1: the United Arab Emirates, although in the footnotes the FBI 126 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,760 Speaker 1: agent indicates that actually Sapper is in Jordan, but you know, 127 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: close enough for a teenager. I can't find any information 128 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: about whether or not charges are being pursued against that user, 129 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: either in the US or in Jordan. He isn't identified 130 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:06,279 Speaker 1: by name at all, but he does appear to be 131 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:10,480 Speaker 1: the only other adult discussed in that document. The English 132 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: teenager said Sapper loves spamming the calls they raid with 133 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 1: Isis Gore videos. The criminal complaint details seven incidents of 134 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 1: zoom raids in June and July of twenty twenty five, 135 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: of which were meetings of the Presno City Council, one 136 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: was a Jewish religious service conducted by Zoom in Albuquerque, 137 00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,040 Speaker 1: New Mexico, and the other with some random couple's wedding 138 00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: in upstate New York. But the incidents described in detail 139 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,200 Speaker 1: in the complaint are clearly not the only ones that happened, 140 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,400 Speaker 1: just the only ones being charged at this time. When 141 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: FBI agents interviewed a thirteen year old boy in Oregon, 142 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: he told them the group's leader also enjoyed Zoom bombing 143 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 1: parent teacher conferences, specifically at schools that had had past 144 00:07:48,800 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 1: active shooter events. The boy said, Encino again, that's al HACHEMI, 145 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: according to the complaint, loves to offend people and talks 146 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: about racist things more than anyone else. Yes, but you 147 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: know who doesn't love to offend people. The sponsors of 148 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: this show and we are back. I hope you enjoyed 149 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 1: those products and services. Hopefully none of them were four 150 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 1: online chat platforms where European neo Nazis are recruiting your kids. 151 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,600 Speaker 1: All right, So all these criminal charges here are related 152 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:27,920 Speaker 1: to conduct that occurred in the span of less than 153 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:31,920 Speaker 1: five weeks four full years ago, but for as long 154 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: as it took to actually indict Alhacemi. It looks like 155 00:08:34,120 --> 00:08:37,080 Speaker 1: the FEDS acted pretty quickly after the first few threats 156 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: were made. They were sitting at the dining room table 157 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: talking to a kid identified as RB by August twenty seventh, 158 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: barely two months after the call started. RB is described 159 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: as a juvenile with a history of making threats who 160 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 1: lives in Spartanburg, South Carolina. Obviously, it's impossible to identify 161 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: this minor, and probably not a good idea to do 162 00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: even if I could, but I am dying to know 163 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: what exact that history of threats looks like. I found 164 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: a couple of news stories in the year or two 165 00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: before this about teens in the Spartanburg area who'd been 166 00:09:07,480 --> 00:09:10,400 Speaker 1: arrested for making threats. Now. Obviously, again, even in those 167 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 1: news stories, if a miner is arrested, they are identified, 168 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:15,600 Speaker 1: so there's no way to sort of connect these two 169 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:18,840 Speaker 1: unnamed teens. But I did find a story about a 170 00:09:18,920 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: ninth grader who posted a snapchat on the day of 171 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:24,400 Speaker 1: the Parkland school shooting in twenty eighteen. I was a 172 00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: photo of the teenager holding a realistic fake gun with 173 00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:32,560 Speaker 1: the caption round two of Florida Tomorrow again, it's impossible 174 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: to say if there's any connection, but the general age, location, 175 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: and interest in school shootings definitely caught my eye. Another 176 00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:43,280 Speaker 1: member of the group, identified as a miner named CG 177 00:09:43,600 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 1: in North Caldwell, New Jersey, sometimes used the name Adam 178 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: Lanza during the zoom raids, an homage to the Sandy 179 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 1: Hook school shooter, and when the FBI was chatting with 180 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:55,560 Speaker 1: RB on August twenty seventh, he told him about another 181 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,240 Speaker 1: user in the discord who posted often about his desire 182 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,360 Speaker 1: to carry out a school shooting and wanting to kill 183 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: a few days after that, the FBI agents were sitting 184 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,280 Speaker 1: down with that thirteen year old boy and his parents 185 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:11,040 Speaker 1: in Oregon. That boy, identified as PM, told the agents 186 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: that Encino wasn't just interested in zoom bombing, but the 187 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: group also dosed people, naming a bizarre list of targets 188 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: ranging from Jewish leaders to yoga teachers and cooking classes. 189 00:10:22,160 --> 00:10:24,840 Speaker 1: PM also told the agents that Encino had docked a 190 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: former member of the group, a girl identified in a 191 00:10:27,280 --> 00:10:30,880 Speaker 1: footnote as l T, after a disagreement over whether or 192 00:10:30,920 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: not they should be using so many racial slurs in 193 00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:36,200 Speaker 1: the prank phone calls. Now I know I said it 194 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 1: wasn't possible or even advisable to try to identify these miners, 195 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 1: but it turns out it is possible, and she's not 196 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:47,560 Speaker 1: a miner anymore. I don't know. Maybe the rule is 197 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:49,480 Speaker 1: if you're old enough to drive drunk, you're old enough 198 00:10:49,480 --> 00:10:51,240 Speaker 1: to get talked about on a podcast. She's got a 199 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:53,520 Speaker 1: court date coming up for a DUI arrest in April. 200 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,080 Speaker 1: The girl identified as LT was docked by the group's 201 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:59,600 Speaker 1: leader in July twenty twenty when she was just sixteen, 202 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,439 Speaker 1: and we only have that thirteen year old aspiring school 203 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,959 Speaker 1: shooter's word for it as to why she left the group. 204 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:08,320 Speaker 1: Maybe it is possible that she disagreed with the racial 205 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:11,679 Speaker 1: slur heavy call scripts, but I don't think that's because 206 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:14,720 Speaker 1: she's not a huge fan of racism. She shows up 207 00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 1: that same year in leaked discord chats from the servers 208 00:11:17,640 --> 00:11:22,240 Speaker 1: groyper Haven and Nick Fuentes Unofficial, both servers for fans 209 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 1: of Nick Quente's. She identifies herself as a paleo conservative 210 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:31,480 Speaker 1: Christian monarchist and claims to know Nick Quentz. When another 211 00:11:31,559 --> 00:11:34,760 Speaker 1: user asked her if she likes Nick, she says, yeah, 212 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,839 Speaker 1: he's cool, but She takes issue with the fact that 213 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 1: he wants to marry a white woman because he is, 214 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: in her eyes, not white, and says whites are better 215 00:11:43,840 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: than any other race and we need to stay inside 216 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: of our own race. A few sort of vestigial stitches 217 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,679 Speaker 1: of videos with her now band TikTok account show her 218 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: in a Trump shirt and Maga hat giving the camera 219 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 1: this weird Kubrick stare as the tech next girls that 220 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: think communists should be jailed appears over her head. You know, 221 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,959 Speaker 1: kids will be kids, right, Just classic kids stuff, wanting 222 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,240 Speaker 1: to imprison your political enemies and being really opposed to 223 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: race mixing. Well. Last summer, she gave a speech about 224 00:12:16,360 --> 00:12:19,440 Speaker 1: cancel culture to the Burkes County Patriots, an anti government 225 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:23,079 Speaker 1: extremist group that sent charter buses to the insurrection, and 226 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 1: public records show she received a stipend as a legislative 227 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:30,480 Speaker 1: intern at the Pennsylvania House of Representatives. The teenage Groper 228 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: to Legislative Aid pipeline is something that should concern us 229 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: all a little bit more, But doxing LT seems to 230 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:40,040 Speaker 1: have frightened some of the other kids. PM that's thirteen 231 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: year old in Oregon told agents he was worried the 232 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,000 Speaker 1: group would dox him if he tried to leave BO. 233 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: A minor in North Carolina told agents he believed in 234 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 1: Sino had access to his computer by a spyware AM 235 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,479 Speaker 1: a seventeen year old in Maryland, provided agents with screenshots 236 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,640 Speaker 1: showing in Sino had posted his address and discussed having 237 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: him swatted. And this is such what a messy, ugly thing, right, So, 238 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:06,080 Speaker 1: first of all, these are kids. They're kids, right, One 239 00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,360 Speaker 1: of them is as young as thirteen, and that has 240 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: to be front of mind in all of this. But 241 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:14,480 Speaker 1: even if they lack the frontal lobe capacity to really 242 00:13:14,559 --> 00:13:17,480 Speaker 1: understand the consequences of saying you're going to kill someone, 243 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:23,520 Speaker 1: this isn't just normal kid acting out behavior, right. PM 244 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: told other users he wanted to shoot up his school. 245 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 1: AM posted often about wanting to build bombs and blow 246 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 1: things up and expressed a lot of interest in isis 247 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: They were all calling into these meetings and saying the 248 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,720 Speaker 1: most shocking, upsetting things they could think of. And it's 249 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: not one hundred percent clear why, right, Like they didn't 250 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 1: all necessarily have the same motivations or understandings. A teenager 251 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: identified as KH told agents the goal is to create 252 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,160 Speaker 1: such a disturbance that the hosts have no choice but 253 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:58,040 Speaker 1: determinate the meeting. Hurting people's feelings along the way is 254 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: completely in bounds, and the slurs were just a means 255 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:05,280 Speaker 1: to that end. He said they would quote just have 256 00:14:05,400 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: fun in there. Am told agents he was just posting 257 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:14,320 Speaker 1: quote random things. But he also admitted he hates Jews. 258 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: And so maybe it's a meaningless exercise to try to 259 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: nail down exactly how ideologically committed these teens were to 260 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,560 Speaker 1: this project of racial and religious harassment. But Ala Sheemi 261 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:26,800 Speaker 1: is also not the first Nazi to see the value 262 00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,960 Speaker 1: in recruiting teens online. They may just be kids talking 263 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: shit right now, but if you hear a kid talking 264 00:14:33,640 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: this type of shit, don't brush it off right This 265 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: starts somewhere. This edgy, shocking, unseerious sort of four chan 266 00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 1: style racism crystallizes into serious ideological commitment for some of them. 267 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: And I hope these kids' parents were able to provide 268 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: some meaningful intervention after they found out what their kids 269 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: were up to online. And back to that timeline, right, So, 270 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,520 Speaker 1: the indictment only lists the June twenty twenty calls as 271 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: the overt acts of the conspiracy, but the date range 272 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 1: for the charge conduct is actually May twenty twenty to 273 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 1: February twenty twenty two, and maybe that means they plan 274 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: to introduce additional evidence of other calls to support the 275 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: conspiracy claim. It's hard to say. They're being pretty tight 276 00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 1: lipped about it. Reporting by Jason Koebler for four or 277 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: four Media says the Department of Justice declined to comment 278 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: on the possibility of anyone else being charged, and the 279 00:15:22,840 --> 00:15:27,160 Speaker 1: criminal complaint goes into some detail by interviewing multiple cooperative miners, 280 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:29,800 Speaker 1: but it is possible the records they got back from 281 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 1: these various platforms led them to other co conspirators who 282 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: are old enough to catch a federal charge. There are 283 00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: a lot of details missing here that will just have 284 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: to wait for. The docket shows that Ali Shehemi has 285 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,360 Speaker 1: retained an attorney. I assume they wouldn't have unsealed the 286 00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: indictment if they didn't have him in custody, But there's 287 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 1: no information available at when or where he was arrested 288 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: and how that extradition is coming along. And it's interesting 289 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: to me how incredibly similar the MO is in this 290 00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: case to the ring led by the Goham Defense League, guys. 291 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:00,560 Speaker 1: I mean, it's not exactly a complicated play. It's not 292 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:02,800 Speaker 1: hard to believe that racists who never met each other 293 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,840 Speaker 1: would independently arrive at the same gross way of bothering people. 294 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:09,160 Speaker 1: But take, for example, one of the incidents in the indictment. 295 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,160 Speaker 1: A man that they alleged was Alhahemi called into the 296 00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:15,000 Speaker 1: Fresno City Council meeting on June eleventh, twenty twenty, during 297 00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 1: public comment. He pretended to be a local resident named Brian, 298 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: and he started off pretty normal, saying, you know, I 299 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: agree with the previous speaker. He's sort of indicating that 300 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: he's interested in and engaged in the topic of the meeting. 301 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: He expresses an opinion about the topic at hand, which 302 00:16:29,880 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: happened to be police funding, and then suddenly he pivots 303 00:16:33,600 --> 00:16:36,080 Speaker 1: to a violent call for murder of black residence and 304 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: repeatedly uses the N word. And so after that call ends, 305 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: the council's on high alert for disruptive callers, so subsequent 306 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:44,800 Speaker 1: members of the group don't bother with a script or 307 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: a backstory. They just start shouting slurs the second they 308 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,720 Speaker 1: connect until they're booted from the call. Right, So in 309 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 1: this case, the caller after fake Brian was that miner 310 00:16:53,240 --> 00:16:56,000 Speaker 1: from South Carolina, and when his call connects you can 311 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 1: hear him laughing and he just says the N word 312 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: and they hang up on him. I don't know, maybe 313 00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 1: I'm too hung up on the structural similarities here. I 314 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,240 Speaker 1: guess that's just classic crank call procedure, right. You start 315 00:17:05,240 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: off with the reasonable ruse, You get the person you've 316 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,160 Speaker 1: called to believe this is a real normal phone call, 317 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,480 Speaker 1: and then you shock and upset them by making a 318 00:17:12,520 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: hard right turn into the I guess you can't really 319 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:17,280 Speaker 1: call it a punchline if it's not funny, but you 320 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: know what I mean. But if you took the names 321 00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:21,800 Speaker 1: out of this indictment, you could mistake these descriptions of 322 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: calls for city council death squad scripts. But they didn't 323 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:27,040 Speaker 1: start doing their zoom bombing until the summer of twenty 324 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,879 Speaker 1: twenty three, And according to this indictment, the FBI agents 325 00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: were having uncomfortable conversations with teenage boys all the way 326 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: back in twenty twenty So I think if there was 327 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: any overlap between these two zoom bomb rings, we'd know 328 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: by now. I think this is just unrelated racists reaching 329 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:45,280 Speaker 1: the same horrible conclusion. But if those guys are listening, 330 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 1: I hope they hear the significance of that timeline. Within 331 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 1: weeks of that first zoom bomb. In this indictment, they 332 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:53,639 Speaker 1: had search warrants for the homes of two of the 333 00:17:53,640 --> 00:17:56,640 Speaker 1: miners on those calls. I think a lot of people 334 00:17:56,680 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: assume that if they don't get caught, they aren't going 335 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:02,800 Speaker 1: to get caught. You see that a lot in tax 336 00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:04,680 Speaker 1: evasion cases. Right after you do it a few years 337 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:06,320 Speaker 1: in a row, you figure they're never going to get you, 338 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:08,200 Speaker 1: so you keep doing it. You get a little bolder. 339 00:18:08,680 --> 00:18:10,840 Speaker 1: But they're just taking their time and building their case. 340 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,959 Speaker 1: Just because you haven't been caught yet, does it mean 341 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: they don't know you're doing it? So who knows. Maybe 342 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 1: we'll see a similar indictment against the GDL guys a 343 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,280 Speaker 1: few years after they started doing it. There's not really 344 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: a button to put on this one. We'll have to 345 00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,239 Speaker 1: wait for more filings in al Hashemi's case to learn 346 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: anything more there. But if you know any teenagers, check 347 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,719 Speaker 1: in with them, make sure they're actually playing roadblocks and 348 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: not being coaxed into doing federal crime by a Nazi 349 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: in Albania. You know what better yet, go outside, unplug 350 00:18:43,080 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: your router, be free. It could happen here as a 351 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: production of cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool 352 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:53,439 Speaker 1: Zone Media, visit our website cool zonemedia dot com or 353 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 1: check us out on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 354 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:58,919 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. If you can find sources 355 00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: for it could Happen here, update monthly at coolzonemedia dot 356 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: com slash sources. Thanks for listening.