1 00:00:04,880 --> 00:00:08,320 Speaker 1: On this episode of newts World. With the seventieth anniversary 2 00:00:08,320 --> 00:00:11,040 Speaker 1: of the Mutual Defense Treaty between the United States and 3 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: South Korea that bound together our security intercept the Korean War, 4 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:17,799 Speaker 1: which ended with a ceasefire, I wanted to devote an 5 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:21,600 Speaker 1: episode on South Korea and our long standing relationship with them, 6 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: And I should say my dad fought in Korea nineteen 7 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,760 Speaker 1: fifty three, went back later as a career soldier and 8 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: was part of the Defense system and Speaker of the House. 9 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 1: I visited Korea many times, so I'm fascinated and I'm 10 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:37,639 Speaker 1: really pleased to welcome my guest, Kelly Vlahos, Senior advisor 11 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:42,240 Speaker 1: to the Quincy Institute and editorial director of Responsible state Craft, 12 00:00:42,640 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: and we're going to chat about South Korean President Jung 13 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: Soukyol's visit the United States. Kelly, welcome and thank you 14 00:00:59,000 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 1: for joining me in news. 15 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 2: Thank you, it's an honor to be here. 16 00:01:02,280 --> 00:01:06,000 Speaker 1: Tell us about your background and your interest in South Korea. 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,760 Speaker 2: Sure, I'm a newspaper person by profession. I've been working 18 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 2: in news and magazines for many, many years, but in 19 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 2: recent times I've been gravitating towards foreign policy, so I've 20 00:01:19,120 --> 00:01:23,680 Speaker 2: been writing about foreign policy, civil liberties, veterans issues, national 21 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:27,360 Speaker 2: security for some time. I was at Foxnews dot Com 22 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: for a while, American Conservative. I edited the American Conservative 23 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 2: website for several years, and now at the Quincy Institute, 24 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:43,679 Speaker 2: which is a transpartisan action tank that focuses on demilitarizing 25 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: US foreign policy for a new, more diplomatic pathway ahead. 26 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 2: And it's kind of fit my sweet spot. I'm very 27 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: much interested in foreign policy, including South Korea and the geopolitics. 28 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:04,680 Speaker 2: I guess that dictate US foreign policy, what Washington is doing, 29 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 2: how it's affecting Americans at home and abroad. And South 30 00:02:09,800 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 2: Korea is a major issue, as you note, and we 31 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 2: have the President of South Korea visiting Washington this week, 32 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,680 Speaker 2: and there are a number of issues that are very 33 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: pertinent to Biden's foreign policy and the stability and security 34 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: of that region abroad. 35 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:34,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean President Ewton seems to be extraordinarily pro American, 36 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: concerned about North Korea and really taking some significant risk 37 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: to strengthen the region in terms of working with the Japanese. 38 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: And I think from our perspective, both his stay dinner 39 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: with President Biden and his opportunity to talk to the 40 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 1: US Congress will be significant. How do you see President 41 00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: Ewan's role in all this. 42 00:02:55,840 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 2: He's in a difficult spot. He is a conservative, so 43 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,440 Speaker 2: he doesn't get a lot of good media attention, let's 44 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 2: just put it that way. So he starts off with 45 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: a little bit of a handicap. And as you point out, 46 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,639 Speaker 2: he has attempted and I think he's doing a pretty 47 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 2: good job at repairing the relationship with Japan, which is 48 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:21,000 Speaker 2: so fraught dating back to World War Two and more recently, 49 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:26,160 Speaker 2: there had been a flurry of export restrictions and sanctions 50 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: and a real breakdown and diplomatic ties, and they seem 51 00:03:29,880 --> 00:03:33,120 Speaker 2: to be repairing a lot of that. Tokyo and Seoul 52 00:03:33,280 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: had a summit back in I think it was February, 53 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 2: in which they restored a number of regular meetings, their 54 00:03:41,520 --> 00:03:47,440 Speaker 2: military and intelligence cooperation, a bunch of trade deals they restarted. 55 00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 2: Japan had been a preferred trade status partner that had 56 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:56,840 Speaker 2: been restarted. They forged a deal over the longstanding issue 57 00:03:56,920 --> 00:04:00,920 Speaker 2: of the comfort women that Japan had exploited South Korean 58 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: women during World War II. As you know, this is 59 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 2: just a major sticking point for South Koreans. They forged 60 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:09,720 Speaker 2: a deal in which there would be a fund set 61 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 2: up to give reparations to those comfort women and their families. Unfortunately, 62 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:17,920 Speaker 2: there's a remaining sticking point is who's going to pay 63 00:04:17,920 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 2: for that? And South Korea under Un had basically agreed 64 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:25,760 Speaker 2: that South Korean companies would be putting money into this 65 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:29,960 Speaker 2: reparations pool, which really ticked off South Koreans. And his 66 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 2: approval rating is actually down to like twenty seven percent 67 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,600 Speaker 2: right now, and a lot of it is because of 68 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:41,080 Speaker 2: this row prush mont with Japan, mostly over this comfort 69 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,720 Speaker 2: women issue, So he's dealing with that, and then of 70 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:49,000 Speaker 2: course he's dealing with North Korea, which has had more 71 00:04:49,080 --> 00:04:52,760 Speaker 2: missile tests has launched more missile tests. North Korea in 72 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,039 Speaker 2: twenty twenty two and twenty three than I think several 73 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 2: years combined previous. I counted them before I got on 74 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 2: the Your program today, and it was like close to 75 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:07,040 Speaker 2: forty instances, and many of those instances there are multiple 76 00:05:07,480 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: launches from twenty twenty two and twenty twenty three, and 77 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,840 Speaker 2: so South Korea is feeling very vulnerable right now, to 78 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 2: the point that they're even talking about starting their own 79 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:21,320 Speaker 2: nuclear weapons program, which of course the Biden administration is 80 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: saying no way, please, don't even talk about that, but 81 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 2: they are talking about it because they just feel so insecure. 82 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: So I believe that Biden is going to introduce some 83 00:05:33,400 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 2: new assurances for South Korea in terms of its dealing 84 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 2: with this North Korea and protections against North Korea's aggressive 85 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:47,920 Speaker 2: and continuingly aggressive nuclear testing. Or they haven't tested a 86 00:05:47,960 --> 00:05:50,720 Speaker 2: nuclear opon yet, they keep threatening to, but a lot 87 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: of intercontinental ballistic missiles that can be outfitted with nukes. 88 00:05:56,279 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 2: I think Biden is going to give Soul some assurances 89 00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 2: while UN is here in Washington. And then there's the 90 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: issue of trade, and Biden really wants South Korea, Japan, 91 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,800 Speaker 2: and the other East Asia countries to come together in 92 00:06:15,040 --> 00:06:20,640 Speaker 2: United States containment policy with China, and obviously South Korea 93 00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:24,159 Speaker 2: plays a big role, as does Japan, so there's some 94 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:28,080 Speaker 2: pressure there. There was some pressure too on South Korea 95 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,280 Speaker 2: to supply artillery shells to Ukraine, and that ended up 96 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,640 Speaker 2: being a little bit of a kerfuffle when those leaked 97 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:38,720 Speaker 2: documents showed that South Korean officials were feeling pressured. They 98 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,920 Speaker 2: didn't want to give the artillery shells to Ukraine because 99 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 2: they have a longstanding policy of not sending weapons to 100 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:51,039 Speaker 2: other countries at war, and so I think they've found 101 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 2: some way to end run that by renting some I 102 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:59,560 Speaker 2: guess five hundred thousand shells to the United States, which 103 00:06:59,640 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 2: will end up replenishing their stocks, while they sent some 104 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 2: over to Ukraine directly. So Un has been under some 105 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,360 Speaker 2: pressure on that front as well, because it turned out 106 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:15,200 Speaker 2: that the United States was spying on its allies there, 107 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,160 Speaker 2: and I guess the people in South Korea wanted him 108 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,160 Speaker 2: to show a little bit of a response to that 109 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:24,000 Speaker 2: weren't happy. So there are a lot of things going on, 110 00:07:24,240 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: probably more than you wanted to hear, but a lot 111 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:28,679 Speaker 2: of things to talk about when he comes to Washington 112 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 2: this week. 113 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 1: I should say for our listeners, the comfort women terms 114 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:37,400 Speaker 1: of euphemism. Essentially, South Korean women were being forced into 115 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,720 Speaker 1: compulsory prostitution and were being sent all over the Pacific 116 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 1: with the Japanese army, and it was apparently a very 117 00:07:44,960 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 1: horrifying experience. It's a little puzzle to me why the 118 00:07:48,360 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 1: Japanese don't just pay the reparations. I mean, there was 119 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:54,440 Speaker 1: a lot of pride involved in the Japanese tried to 120 00:07:54,480 --> 00:07:57,160 Speaker 1: pretend that it really wasn't what it was. But anybody 121 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: who's studied World War two knows that this was a 122 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:04,280 Speaker 1: truly horrifying abuse of people and that the Japanese really 123 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: are responsible. So you can see why it's emotionally difficult 124 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: in South Korea. The other thing which I think that 125 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: they must have a challenging time dealing with is it's 126 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:18,440 Speaker 1: really hard to understand how the Kim Jong un regime 127 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,840 Speaker 1: is thinking about the future and whether, in fact there's 128 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: a real danger North Korea did invade in nineteen fifty. 129 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: They would claim that there's only one Korea. You know, 130 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:33,280 Speaker 1: their military build up, although most of their conventional equipment 131 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: is now pretty obsolete, but the amount of effort that 132 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:40,560 Speaker 1: they put into missiles and nuclear weapons is pretty astonishing 133 00:08:41,040 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: and has impoverished the country, and that has to sort 134 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 1: of hang like a giant boulder over the South Korean people. 135 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: Oh. Absolutely, And the rapidity of these tests, I mean, 136 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 2: it's almost every day now, and I don't know if 137 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,920 Speaker 2: it's a plea for attention. I mean, part of me says, 138 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 2: with everything that's going on in the world, Kim Jong 139 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 2: un is looking around, says, nobody's paying attention to me. 140 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 2: He wants global sanctions lifted. I believe he wants to 141 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:14,040 Speaker 2: use these missile tests as leverage so that the United 142 00:09:14,080 --> 00:09:17,479 Speaker 2: States will come to the negotiating table and lift those sanctions. 143 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,680 Speaker 2: The Biden administration hasn't had much of a North Korea 144 00:09:20,760 --> 00:09:25,640 Speaker 2: policy in terms of diplomacy. I think President Trump, for 145 00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 2: all of his faults, at least met with Kim Jong un. 146 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 2: I mean, they didn't seal a deal, but when you 147 00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: look at the number of missile tests and the threats 148 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 2: that Kim Jong un has made and his sister have 149 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 2: made since the Biden administration since twenty twenty one, that 150 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 2: doesn't compare with the Trump administration. I think a lot 151 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,199 Speaker 2: of that is because Trump was willing to talk. It 152 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:54,199 Speaker 2: looked like a stunt, but it kept the heat down, 153 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:59,079 Speaker 2: the tensions lowered, and now nobody is looking to talk 154 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 2: with Kim Jong own. I think the Biden administration contends 155 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:06,920 Speaker 2: that they have made outreach, but most people who are 156 00:10:06,960 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 2: a lot smarter on this issue than I am, see 157 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:15,600 Speaker 2: really no diplomatic strategy being engaged there, and I just 158 00:10:15,679 --> 00:10:18,640 Speaker 2: think it's only going to get worse. And you're seeing 159 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 2: this play out in Seoul where people are actually going Okay, 160 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:25,559 Speaker 2: do we have to have our own nuclear weapons program? 161 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:29,240 Speaker 2: The United States took the nukes that they had stationed 162 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:32,960 Speaker 2: there out in the nineteen nineties, and they're feeling vulnerable. 163 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,800 Speaker 2: I mean, is that the answer? I don't think so. 164 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:40,120 Speaker 2: Even the joint military drills that they've been engaging with 165 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 2: Japan and the US, it's only served as provocation for 166 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 2: Kim jongoun, and he does seem like he's a little 167 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,319 Speaker 2: bit unhinged at this point. 168 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 1: You can look at what happened in Afghanistan, and you 169 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: can look at how slow we were to react to Ukraine, 170 00:10:57,480 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: and you can see why if you were a South 171 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: and you might not have total confidence that we would 172 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:07,319 Speaker 1: take any serious risks, particularly because the North Korean dictatorship 173 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,080 Speaker 1: is actively trying to develop weapons that can reach the 174 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,120 Speaker 1: United States right and wants to be able to put 175 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 1: us in a position of saying, are you really willing 176 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: to give up Seattle to protect Soul? I think if 177 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,960 Speaker 1: your South Korean, you're not totally sure that American presidents 178 00:11:22,000 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: are completely reliable. 179 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 2: Right and right now, our focus is on China and Taiwan, 180 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:31,959 Speaker 2: and they want sold to sort of stand with us 181 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:35,120 Speaker 2: in that policy. We're just not looking as much at 182 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,839 Speaker 2: North Korea other than to recriminate them when we believe 183 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: that they're giving weapons over to Russia. But that's just 184 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 2: not on the priority list right now, at least from 185 00:11:44,880 --> 00:11:45,480 Speaker 2: my standpoint. 186 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: I had a variation on this experience when I was 187 00:12:04,960 --> 00:12:08,800 Speaker 1: a speaker. We took a trip to Seoul and I 188 00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 1: went to the Blue House, which was then where the 189 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: president lives. It's become a public museum. The then South 190 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: Korean president was complaining that we weren't paying enough attention, 191 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,240 Speaker 1: and I said, we've been here since nineteen fifty. At 192 00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: that time, we had about thirty five thousand troops sitting 193 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,120 Speaker 1: in Korea. We cared deeply about your independence. But I said, 194 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: the American president gets up in the morning and there 195 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: are over two hundred countries that could grab his attention. 196 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: And I think in that sense, there's always this challenge 197 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: of how do you find enough time to focus your 198 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: senior people and to think through the kind of strategies 199 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: that you really need. South Korea in a way, it 200 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: has a very different interest in Japan. The Japanese are 201 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: very sensitive about Taiwan, and they're very sensitive about the 202 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: South China Sea. I think that's not as big an 203 00:12:56,920 --> 00:13:00,839 Speaker 1: issue to the South Koreans as the reality of North Korea, 204 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:03,080 Speaker 1: and so you know, it makes for a little bit 205 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:04,959 Speaker 1: of a different conversation, if you will. 206 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 2: I completely agree, and I think there are folks, like 207 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:10,520 Speaker 2: I said, a little bit a lot, much smarter than 208 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:14,720 Speaker 2: me on this issue who have pointed to the fact 209 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:17,839 Speaker 2: that the policy, as you know, in the last twenty 210 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 2: thirty years and Washington has been nuclear non proliferation with 211 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 2: in regards to North Korea. And there are some you 212 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 2: may agree or not, who believe that we need not 213 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: to put that aside, but not see the nuclear non 214 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 2: proliferation the deactivation of their weapons program as the first 215 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 2: step in repairing the relationship or bringing together both sides 216 00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:53,200 Speaker 2: and establishing peace on the peninsula. North Korea is not 217 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 2: going to stand down this weapons program as long as 218 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 2: it feels that it has leverage, and there has to 219 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 2: be I'm talking about how do we get to step 220 00:14:03,120 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: by step by step, and is that lifting some of 221 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:15,160 Speaker 2: the sanctions in exchange for weapons inspections which don't occur 222 00:14:15,280 --> 00:14:18,320 Speaker 2: right now, is that the first step. I think that 223 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:21,560 Speaker 2: there is a general recognition, at least from folks at 224 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:27,000 Speaker 2: the Quincy Institute and others that the demand of de nuking, 225 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 2: it's been a non starter, and it's led to just 226 00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 2: a frozen relationship in which you have Kim Jong un 227 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 2: jumping up and down and launching these missiles and threatening 228 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,440 Speaker 2: and no talking going on, and it's just put our 229 00:14:42,480 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: allies in a real bad spot. 230 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: I've had a very long interest in the Korean peninsula, 231 00:14:48,640 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: and accordingly we may have approached this whole thing the 232 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: wrong way that we keep trying to find a two 233 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: or three or four year solution, maybe a fifty year solution. 234 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,080 Speaker 1: When Kadafi gave up his chemical and nuclear weapons programs, 235 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: he was almost immediately wiped out. And that the lesson 236 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: that both North Korea and Iran took from that was 237 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 1: if you're going to survive against the Americans, you had 238 00:15:11,480 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: better have weapons of mass destruction. And so I think 239 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: you have to look at this and say, you know, 240 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: given the extraordinary distortions of their economy, the amount of food, 241 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,320 Speaker 1: the amount of money they have taken away from the 242 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:30,000 Speaker 1: North Korean people, the size of their nuclear and missile programs, 243 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:31,960 Speaker 1: and the number of people who have a vested interest 244 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 1: in them, my hunch is that if Kim Jong on 245 00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:37,560 Speaker 1: next Tuesday agreed to sit down and give that up, 246 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: that he'd be killed. There's been such a long period 247 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 1: of generational sacrifice that to be told now, oops, well 248 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:49,360 Speaker 1: that was a mistake. Who had caused enormous tension among 249 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,840 Speaker 1: the elites. I mean, the average person in North Korea 250 00:15:51,920 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: might be grateful, but the elites who run the country 251 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: and who have followed this policy, I think are very 252 00:15:57,880 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: very deeply committed to it. So you almost have to say, 253 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 1: you know, we're going to get around to nuclear weapons eventually, 254 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: but let's see what else we can do to start 255 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:10,080 Speaker 1: creating some kind of conversation. I mean, we didn't decide 256 00:16:10,120 --> 00:16:13,000 Speaker 1: in the Cold War that we'd have no relationship with 257 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: Russia except negotiating over our weapons. We had many different 258 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 1: kinds of negotiations and many different kinds of commerce and 259 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:22,640 Speaker 1: a lot of different things going on, and we have 260 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 1: sort of, as you point out, we've sort of narrowed 261 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,600 Speaker 1: this down to this one topic, which is the one 262 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 1: that they are the most rigid on, and in a 263 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,840 Speaker 1: way they get away with it in part because you know, 264 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: they're really sort of protected by China and Russia, particularly 265 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,080 Speaker 1: in the UN Security Council. So there's not a Lobo 266 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: agreement because the dictatorships aren't all that unhappy with North 267 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: Korea taking our attention. That's right. 268 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: They have no friends, but the friends that they do 269 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:51,880 Speaker 2: have are pretty powerful. 270 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 1: If your only friends are Russia and China, you're at 271 00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 1: least started. Yeah, And of course it means the Chinese 272 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: always prop them up, partly because they don't want lots 273 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,560 Speaker 1: of North Koreans coming to China, and the Russian see 274 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,119 Speaker 1: them as a useful tool to distract the United States 275 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,159 Speaker 1: and to threaten the United States and Japan. Now, but 276 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: it is interesting because of you. I think last week 277 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: the United States, South Korea, and Japan actually conducted a 278 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:19,159 Speaker 1: joint missile defense exercise, which I think is sort of 279 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 1: a breakthrough. 280 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:24,119 Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, it was a breakthrough considering the bad blood 281 00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:28,959 Speaker 2: between Japan and South Korea up until that point. And 282 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: so it really is a message to North Korea as 283 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:38,000 Speaker 2: well as to China and Russia that there is this 284 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,880 Speaker 2: sort of I know Biden doesn't like to use this. 285 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:46,520 Speaker 2: We're this block building in which like minded allies, partners 286 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 2: are forming based on security, joint security and to certain extent, 287 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 2: trade and cooperation, intelligence in forming a hedge against China 288 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:03,600 Speaker 2: in this case and against North Korea as well. Unfortunately, 289 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: North Korea saw these joint military exercises as a major 290 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,320 Speaker 2: provocation and it just caused them to launch more missile tests. 291 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:13,359 Speaker 2: It was a message for sure. 292 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,639 Speaker 1: By the way, the number of missile tests that they've run, 293 00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: as you point out, really indicates they have a pretty 294 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: robust manufacturing capability. 295 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 2: I mean absolutely, And we don't have exact insights obviously 296 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 2: in what their capabilities are. I was amazed when I 297 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 2: looked up these numbers in terms of the number of 298 00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:35,440 Speaker 2: instances of these missile tests over the list. Like I said, 299 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,640 Speaker 2: I counted forty from the beginning of twenty twenty two 300 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:40,840 Speaker 2: and today. 301 00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,560 Speaker 1: If you just think of it financially, that is a 302 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,920 Speaker 1: significant investment in trying to send a signal. 303 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:51,840 Speaker 2: Right, Japan has had to call alerts because they were 304 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:56,160 Speaker 2: going close into Japanese waters. They have boasted that they 305 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:01,120 Speaker 2: have been testing inter balistic continental missiles that can reach 306 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 2: as far as the United States. I think it was 307 00:19:03,880 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 2: like a week or two ago they had launched underwater missiles. 308 00:19:08,560 --> 00:19:12,879 Speaker 2: There was the solid fuel rocket that they tested. I 309 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 2: believe that was last week, which is a very advanced 310 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:21,280 Speaker 2: weapons system. It can do more harm that can be 311 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: launched from anywhere. So they're showing that they have a program, 312 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,959 Speaker 2: it's advanced, and I can do it quite often. I 313 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,119 Speaker 2: just don't know. At what point does the United States 314 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 2: start paying attention and try to change the course of 315 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:40,879 Speaker 2: what seems to be escalatory on their part. I just 316 00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: don't know. I don't know where this is going, but 317 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:46,159 Speaker 2: I do know that the North Koreans are really feeling vulnerable. 318 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 1: In addition to the Japanese South Korean American missile defense exercise, 319 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 1: we're in the middle of an exercise between the US 320 00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: and South Korea. It involves some one hundred and ten 321 00:19:58,160 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: warplanes and apparently that's also upset the North Koreans. 322 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:07,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And the new more bolden relationship between Japan 323 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,800 Speaker 2: and South Korea as well, because part of the restart 324 00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:18,680 Speaker 2: of the two countries' relations involve military and intelligence cooperation, 325 00:20:19,359 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 2: which was pretty robust in the past before they're falling out. 326 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 2: No doubt Kim Jong un is watching this very closely 327 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,720 Speaker 2: as well as Jijimpin. 328 00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,720 Speaker 1: One of the big topics that President Biden may have 329 00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:53,280 Speaker 1: with President Yun is that they Chinese communists are really 330 00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:57,280 Speaker 1: trying to look into Micron, which is a big American company, 331 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:02,200 Speaker 1: and there are only three major players in the whole 332 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,760 Speaker 1: area of this particular kind of chip. Two of them 333 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,760 Speaker 1: are in South Korea, Samsung and sk Hynix. The other 334 00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 1: one is Micron, And so apparently we're really trying to 335 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:16,440 Speaker 1: work to get the Koreans to agree that they won't 336 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: fill a gap if in fact the Chinese communist end 337 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,840 Speaker 1: up banning Micron, which is based in Idaho. South Korea 338 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 1: is technologically one of the most advanced countries in the world, 339 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: and their engineers are remarkable and are fully competitive with 340 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: Taiwan or China, or Germany or the United States, very 341 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: very impressive work. 342 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:41,720 Speaker 2: This situation in which Micron is under investigation by the 343 00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 2: Chinese and it could be banned, So what Biden is 344 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:50,040 Speaker 2: saying is he's asking South Korea not to sell their 345 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:53,840 Speaker 2: chips to fill that gap because Micron is a major 346 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 2: chip maker in China, so if it goes away, there's 347 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 2: going to be a gap and production lines there, and 348 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 2: his asked South Korea chip makers not to sell their 349 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:09,080 Speaker 2: chips to China. But interestingly, this investigation is really a 350 00:22:09,119 --> 00:22:14,920 Speaker 2: retaliation for the export controls that Biden has placed on China. 351 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 2: So there are a number of companies that aren't selling 352 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:24,840 Speaker 2: technology that China needs to build its own chips, and 353 00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 2: so there's a tiff for tat going on here and 354 00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 2: it's very serious. But it puts South Korea sort of 355 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:36,160 Speaker 2: in a mind because China is its largest trading partner, 356 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,240 Speaker 2: and I think China sells about one hundred and forty 357 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,639 Speaker 2: billion dollars worth of products to South Korea every year. 358 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:48,040 Speaker 2: South Korea sells about one hundred and fifty eight billion 359 00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:53,560 Speaker 2: to China. The biggest exports that South Korea sells to 360 00:22:53,680 --> 00:22:58,399 Speaker 2: China are integrated circuit boards to all technology, so there 361 00:22:58,440 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 2: are a lot of livelihoods on the line here. So 362 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,080 Speaker 2: South Korea, of course is an ally and they want 363 00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: to do right by the United States, and they have 364 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,400 Speaker 2: signed on, as have a number of countries including Taiwan 365 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 2: and Europe, to these export controls to China. But they 366 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,760 Speaker 2: also have this relationship with China as well, so it 367 00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 2: puts them in a situation where they can either push 368 00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,600 Speaker 2: away their Chinese partners and get closer to the United 369 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:31,920 Speaker 2: States or aggravate the relationship with Washington. If it does 370 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,920 Speaker 2: end up selling chips. I don't know if there's been 371 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 2: any decision made on which way South Korea goes, but 372 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 2: it does kind of illustrate the tenuous geopolitics here because 373 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:48,840 Speaker 2: as much as China is feared because of its power 374 00:23:48,880 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 2: and influence in the region, it does have a lot 375 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:59,159 Speaker 2: of these interconnected trade relationships with Japan, with Taiwan, with 376 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 2: South Korea, and so they don't want to cut off 377 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:06,600 Speaker 2: China completely, but they do want to assert that they 378 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:10,440 Speaker 2: are sovereign, that they have security interests in the region. 379 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,440 Speaker 2: They are important allies to the West. There's a balancing 380 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 2: act that needs to be done, and I think Un 381 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:18,399 Speaker 2: is right in the middle of that right now. 382 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,280 Speaker 1: The other topic, which is one that my wife Callista 383 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: has written on extensively, is the human rights concerns in 384 00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,760 Speaker 1: North Korea, both in terms of religious repression, whether one 385 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,960 Speaker 1: of the most repressive regimes in the world and very 386 00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: anti organized religion, and in terms of just plain food 387 00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 1: and starvation that apparently right now the food situation in 388 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: North Korea is the worst it's been under Kim Jong 389 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,560 Speaker 1: AND's liven year rule, which means there are literally people 390 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:49,360 Speaker 1: starving to death. 391 00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:52,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, and we still to this day. I don't believe 392 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 2: we have any idea of what the COVID pandemic did 393 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,520 Speaker 2: to that country, because as you remember that Kim Jong 394 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 2: un maintained all along that they had what one COVID case, 395 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 2: which is obviously an impossibility. So we don't know what 396 00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:12,399 Speaker 2: kind of wreckage that either the COVID but any ensuing 397 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: lockdowns of their economy of their society have brought there. 398 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:22,360 Speaker 2: Plus the fallout from the pandemic globally, plus the war 399 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:26,280 Speaker 2: in Ukraine, world sanctions, I mean, they have just created 400 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 2: enormous tensions and pressures on all countries' economies. So I 401 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 2: would imagine that a country that's already suffering from starvation 402 00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:40,199 Speaker 2: and repression, it's got to be ten times worse today. 403 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,640 Speaker 2: I believe that's on the docket in terms of what 404 00:25:44,320 --> 00:25:48,919 Speaker 2: Yun will be talking to the Biden administration about, and 405 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 2: I'll probably talk about during his joint session with Congress. 406 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,880 Speaker 2: He's addressed in Congress this week. I don't have any 407 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 2: idea of what the United States can do other than, 408 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:04,960 Speaker 2: like I said before, open up some talks so that 409 00:26:05,040 --> 00:26:09,119 Speaker 2: there is some diplomacy that can ease some of the 410 00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:13,680 Speaker 2: restrictions on sanctions there, but I would agree, But there's 411 00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,159 Speaker 2: got to be some exchange. We lift sanctions, and what 412 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,800 Speaker 2: does he just put all of the new resources into 413 00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,919 Speaker 2: his missile program, because that seems that that program is, 414 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 2: like you mentioned, is getting a lot of fuel, but 415 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 2: yet it's all at the expense of the people. So 416 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,800 Speaker 2: how do you guarantee that any assistance that we offer 417 00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 2: in exchange for some sort of diplomatic sort of breaking 418 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 2: the log jam won't just go right back into their 419 00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:46,239 Speaker 2: weapons program. I don't know. 420 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,680 Speaker 1: As a space not which I am. I'm very excited 421 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: by the fact that on this trip the South Korea's 422 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,280 Speaker 1: Ministry of Science is going to sign a joint statement 423 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,200 Speaker 1: of cooperation with NASA, and that the South Koreans really 424 00:27:01,240 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: are begin to move into space in a serious way. 425 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,760 Speaker 1: They've signed the Artemis Accords. They've actually launched a lunar 426 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:11,000 Speaker 1: orbiter aboard a SpaceX rocket. If they could do for 427 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: space what they have done for example in shipbuilding, they 428 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:16,879 Speaker 1: would lead to a dramatic crash and the price of 429 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: going into space. They have great engineering and great capacity 430 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:24,439 Speaker 1: for thinking through and implementing these kinds of projects. The 431 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,000 Speaker 1: other thing I want to mention. When I was preparing 432 00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: an article I wrote for The Washington Times, I was 433 00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: really impressed the fact that President Ewan's background is as 434 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:36,520 Speaker 1: a prosecutor. He wasn't a politician originally. He was a 435 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:41,119 Speaker 1: guy who prosecuted corruption, and he actually prosecuted two former presidents. 436 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,120 Speaker 1: He brings an unusual background to the job. 437 00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,040 Speaker 2: He really does, and he's kind of tough, and from 438 00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 2: what I understand, this really played well into the negotiations 439 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: with the Japanese and forging the steal over the comfort women, 440 00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,840 Speaker 2: but also restarting their trade and some of the military 441 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 2: operation and agreeing to regular meetings. This happened in pretty 442 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,880 Speaker 2: I don't want to say record time. It was very 443 00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,119 Speaker 2: forthright and I can't remember where I read it, but 444 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 2: it was credited to his background. And he's just a 445 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:18,359 Speaker 2: sort of very straightforward. Like you said, he's a former prosecutor. 446 00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:20,960 Speaker 2: He likes to get the job done, he doesn't fuss 447 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,160 Speaker 2: about and I think this is a big deal. I mean, 448 00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,680 Speaker 2: this reprochement with Japan is going to benefit both countries 449 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,080 Speaker 2: on a number of levels. I mean, if they can 450 00:28:32,119 --> 00:28:37,840 Speaker 2: get beyond, if possible, the comfort women issue. I believe 451 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:40,440 Speaker 2: that that's the big deal, and he was a big 452 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:40,960 Speaker 2: part of it. 453 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: They've clearly moved closer to recognizing that they have deep 454 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: mutual interests, particularly given the aggressiveness of Xinjimin. Then the 455 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,520 Speaker 1: whole problem of dealing with China, and I think that 456 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: Ji's attitude is actually driving countries together against communist China, 457 00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 1: which is interesting to watch. It's sort of the opposite 458 00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,120 Speaker 1: of smart diplomacy. But listen, Kelly, I want to thank 459 00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 1: you for joining us. I think this has been very helpful. 460 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:09,520 Speaker 1: I think as people watch President Eunon's visit this week 461 00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,280 Speaker 1: that our conversation will be a very useful backdrop to 462 00:29:13,320 --> 00:29:15,840 Speaker 1: help them understand what's going on and why it really matters. 463 00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,360 Speaker 1: And I really appreciate the work you're doing. I'm delighted 464 00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 1: that you would spend the time to help educate us. 465 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:22,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Thank you. 466 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:29,320 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Kelly Vlajos. You can learn 467 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,520 Speaker 1: more about the seventieth anniversary of the United States South 468 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,840 Speaker 1: Korea Relations on our show page at newsworld dot com. 469 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 1: Newsworld is produced by Gaingwid three sixty an iHeartMedia. Our 470 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: executive producer is Guarnsey Sloan and Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 471 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,240 Speaker 1: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 472 00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: Special thanks to the team at gingwid three sixty. If 473 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: you've been enjoying Newsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple 474 00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: Podcast and both rate us with five stars and give 475 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,000 Speaker 1: us a review so others can learn what it's on 476 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: all about. Right now, listeners of neut World can sign 477 00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,440 Speaker 1: up for my three free weekly columns at gingrichcree sixty 478 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:11,320 Speaker 1: dot com slash newsletter. I'm newt Gingrich. This is neut World.