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Speaker 7: Hey, Daniel, you used to live in Chicago, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I did when I was working at the accelerator

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Speaker 1: at Fermilab.

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Speaker 7: Does that mean you like Chicago style pizza?

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Speaker 1: Oh? My god, that is not pizza. That's like a

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Speaker 1: castle role, it's like a marinera swimming pool. I mean

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Speaker 1: it's delicious, of course, but it's not actually pizza.

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Speaker 7: Oh there's our tough words for a Chicago style pizza.

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Speaker 7: Does that mean you prefer thin pizza like New York

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Speaker 7: style pizza?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, absolutely, like the thinner the better.

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Speaker 7: Really like halted.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it feels possible. I guess I need

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Speaker 1: a two dimensional slice of pizza.

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Speaker 7: Well that's convenient. Then you can eat all the pizza

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Speaker 7: you like and in the end you have eaten nothing.

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Speaker 1: What about the toppings?

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Speaker 7: Do you like two d toppings too? Maybe that's why

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Speaker 7: people in New York are so thin. They have no death,

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Speaker 7: they're so shallow. I am or hammade cartoonist and the

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Speaker 7: creator of PhD comics.

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Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I really

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Speaker 1: do have strong opinions about pizza.

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Speaker 7: Really, yes, strong pinions about particles. About physics and about

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Speaker 7: pizza and dessert and big goods. You have a lot

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Speaker 7: of strong opinions, Daniel.

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Speaker 1: I'm particular about pizza and yes, big goods the things

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Speaker 1: I enjoy. I know what I like, and I do

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Speaker 1: love thin New York or Italian style pizza, but also

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Speaker 1: a nice big slab of Chicago style whatever you call it,

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Speaker 1: is also.

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Speaker 7: Delicious whatever you don't even want to call it a pizza.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. This is just a totally different kind

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Speaker 1: of food. I mean, the only thing they have in

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Speaker 1: common are carbs, cheese, and tomato sauce.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, that's a pizza.

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Speaker 1: Does that mean that you know pasta with tomato sauce

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Speaker 1: and parmesan on top is also a pizza?

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Speaker 7: Yeah? And a calzone is just a pizza.

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Speaker 1: That's a pizza taco.

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Speaker 7: But welcome to our podcast Daniel and Forehead apparently talk

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Speaker 7: about pizza and explain the universe a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: A podcast would we record just before lunch if you

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Speaker 1: can't tell, And we usually talk about all the crazy

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Speaker 1: things out there in the universe, the amazing ways that

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Speaker 1: matter can form, the weird things that it can do,

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Speaker 1: from really really big stuff like entire galaxies and clusters

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Speaker 1: of galaxies down to really strange little objects, what those

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Speaker 1: tiny little dancing particles can make when they set their

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Speaker 1: minds to it.

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Speaker 7: That's right, because, let's face it, we're all hungry, hungry

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Speaker 7: for knowledge in this world. You all want to know

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Speaker 7: what everything is made out of, how it all works,

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Speaker 7: and how it's all put together, and how it all

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Speaker 7: makes sense if it does.

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Speaker 1: That's right. I would like to order two slices of

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Speaker 1: truth for lunch.

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Speaker 7: Please a Nobel price there on top.

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Speaker 1: Please just shaved Nobel prize on top. That sounds pretty good.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you know, like gold shavings. That's edible, right, you

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Speaker 7: can also do that with a Noble price. You know.

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Speaker 7: That's a little bit of intellectual rites.

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Speaker 1: The smartest pizza ever.

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Speaker 7: Yeah. We like to talk about all the amazing things

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Speaker 7: in the universe, all of the crazy stars and galaxies

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Speaker 7: and black holes and neutron stars out there, and also

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Speaker 7: all of the little tiny parkles that make us up

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Speaker 7: who we are, and that pizza that you had for lunch.

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Speaker 1: And we also like to think about the way the

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Speaker 1: world is and why isn't it another way? Something I

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Speaker 1: like to think about a lot when I was younger

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Speaker 1: and even still today, are the number of dimensions of space?

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Speaker 1: You know, the way that we can move three D?

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Speaker 1: And what it would be like to be a four

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Speaker 1: dimensional being or to be a two dimensional being in

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Speaker 1: a three dimensional world. These kind of mental exercises were

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Speaker 1: fun for me and made me wonder like, why do

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Speaker 1: we live in a three dimensional world? What would it

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Speaker 1: be like to live in a universe with a different

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Speaker 1: number of dimensions?

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Speaker 7: Wow, that's what you wondered about as a kid. I

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Speaker 7: was wondering like how does Superman fly? And how strong

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Speaker 7: is Spider Man's web? You know, you are wondering about

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Speaker 7: the dimensions of the universe.

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Speaker 4: I was.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is not six year old Dame though,

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Speaker 1: this is probably fourteen year old Daniel, But yeah, I

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Speaker 1: was thinking about that stuff. What if Superman was two dimensions?

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Speaker 1: How many dimensions are there to Spider Man's web? After all?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I think these questions are super fun and

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Speaker 1: they go to the heart of a really basic question,

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Speaker 1: which is why is our universe the way that it is?

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Speaker 1: So that's why it's fun to explore these different kinds

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Speaker 1: of objects and different kinds of geometries. And I remember

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Speaker 1: thinking what if there are other parts of the universe

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Speaker 1: in which there are four or five dimensions of space?

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Speaker 1: What if we are like trapped in a three dimensional

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Speaker 1: subset of the universe.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, oh, man, I think fourteen year old Jorge was

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Speaker 7: definitely not wondering about physics. He's probably wondering about things

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Speaker 7: we can't mention in this podcast. But yeah, this idea

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Speaker 7: of dimensions is pretty mind blowing. I mean, it's not

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Speaker 7: something we think about every day, right. We're also used

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Speaker 7: to living in this world with three dimensions, you know, up, down, left, right,

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Speaker 7: front and back, and it's kind of hard to wrap

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Speaker 7: your head around or even imagine more dimensions or even

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Speaker 7: less dimensions.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is hard to because we are so

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Speaker 1: to this. But this is something we're doing in physics

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Speaker 1: all the time, is wondering if the way we think

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Speaker 1: about the world is just based in our experience and

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Speaker 1: maybe therefore not universal, not representative. Right. We don't want

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Speaker 1: to imagine the whole universe is just the way that

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Speaker 1: we have experienced it. We want to break out of

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Speaker 1: those intellectual chains. We want to be surprised, We want

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Speaker 1: to discover that the universe is totally different, and that's

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Speaker 1: why science is such an amazing tool because it lets

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Speaker 1: us put aside our biases and chip away at the truth.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, we want to free our minds.

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Speaker 8: That we do.

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Speaker 1: We want to blow all of our minds. Yeah.

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Speaker 7: Is it kind of like fish? You know, they live

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Speaker 7: in the water their whole lives. They probably think the

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Speaker 7: whole universe is made out of water, and you know

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Speaker 7: there's nothing but water.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, precisely because they've never experienced anything else, and so

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Speaker 1: how could they possibly extrapolate? And it's only when they

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Speaker 1: see weird things like, hmmm, the water seems to have

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Speaker 1: an edge, I wonder what's beyond it? When they start

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Speaker 1: asking those questions about other parts of the universe, do

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Speaker 1: they expand their minds and understand like the true nature

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Speaker 1: of the universe? Done this lots of times as humans

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Speaker 1: discovering that the universe is pretty different from the one

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Speaker 1: that our ancestors thought it was, which means there are

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Speaker 1: probably crazy discoveries ahead where in two hundred years people

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Speaker 1: will look back and think, I can't believe they used

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Speaker 1: to think XYZ whatever it is we're thinking now.

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Speaker 7: Yeah. I wonder if fish go fishing for ideas.

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Speaker 1: Also, I wonder if they play Go Fish, or if

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Speaker 1: they have another game called Go Human or something.

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Speaker 7: I wonder if they New York style pizza. Now that's

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Speaker 7: a mind blowing multi dimensional question right there.

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Speaker 1: Well, you can't eat Chicago pizza without a knife and fork,

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Speaker 1: and they don't have hands, So I think that's answered.

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Speaker 7: You could put on schovies, and then that brings it

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Speaker 7: all around to the fish idea. But getting back to

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Speaker 7: our dimensional question, it is weird to think about the

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Speaker 7: world the universe having more than three dimensions, and so

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Speaker 7: this is something that physicists actually consider, and some of

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Speaker 7: them even think there are not just four or five dimensions.

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Speaker 7: There's a whole bunch of dimensions out there.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Even physicists that don't like anchovies think about

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Speaker 1: the world as having eleven or twenty six dimensions. Some

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Speaker 1: of these theories that unify gravity and quantum mechanics, things

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Speaker 1: like string theory, which might be candidate for a theory

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Speaker 1: of everything, these work best if there are more dimensions

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Speaker 1: of space and time for the forces and these strings

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Speaker 1: to sort of wiggle. In the mathematics prefers eleven or

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Speaker 1: twenty six dimensions, which is pretty hard to get your

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Speaker 1: mind around, Like where are those dimensions? How do you

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Speaker 1: move in those dimensions? Why do we only experience three

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Speaker 1: if there are eleven or twenty six?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, and equally as mind blowing is to think it's

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Speaker 7: sort of in the other direction, right to think about

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Speaker 7: what if the world had less dimensions than three, or

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Speaker 7: what if there are things out there that are all

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Speaker 7: less than three dimensionals in their being.

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Speaker 1: That's a super fun idea. And there this whole class

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Speaker 1: of theories that suggests that maybe the entire three D

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Speaker 1: universe is actually just a hologram of a two dimensional universe,

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Speaker 1: meaning that we are actually two dimensional beings. We're going

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Speaker 1: to do a whole podcast episode about the holographic universe

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Speaker 1: later on. But that's a really powerful idea actually in

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Speaker 1: string theory, that let's people do calculations that otherwise would

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Speaker 1: be impossible.

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Speaker 7: I feel like this podcast is kind of two dimensional, Daniel,

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Speaker 7: because you know, we don't go very deep here.

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Speaker 1: No, we have to pick one topic to go deep on,

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Speaker 1: but we're always touching on other things that I'm always like, oh,

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Speaker 1: remember that time we talked about this, Or that's an

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Speaker 1: idea for another episode, or this is fascinating, But the

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Speaker 1: digression would take another forty five minutes, so let's save

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Speaker 1: it for a whole other episode.

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Speaker 7: I see what you're saying. Every other podcast is one dimensional.

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Speaker 7: We are two dimensional. We're like the world's first two

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Speaker 7: D podcast.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe we're zero dimensional. I can't even tell.

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Speaker 1: What does it mean to have a dimensionality in audio?

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Speaker 1: I guess we're in stereo, so that's two D maybe.

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Speaker 7: But anyway, so today we're going to explore this question.

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Speaker 7: On the other side is wondering what could there be

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Speaker 7: and are there things that are less than three dimensions?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it's fun to think about what it would

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Speaker 1: be like to be in a four dimensional world. If

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Speaker 1: you were a three D person in a four dimensional world,

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Speaker 1: we talked about that on a podcast recently, you could

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Speaker 1: disappear from inside a prison and appear on the outside

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Speaker 1: of it by moving in the direction of that fourth dimension.

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Speaker 1: So it's also fun to think about, like, well, do

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Speaker 1: we have objects in our world which are too dimensional,

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Speaker 1: which don't see this third dimension where we could do

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Speaker 1: these crazy tricks on them.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, So today on the podcast, we'll be asking the

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Speaker 7: question can an object be too dimensional? Now, Daniel, is

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Speaker 7: that too like the number two or like, are you

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Speaker 7: asking if something can have too many dimensions?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, my wife says that to me all the time. Man,

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Speaker 1: you are too dimensional. Stop being so dimensional.

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Speaker 7: I think she's starting to tell you you need to

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Speaker 7: go in a diet. Maybe she's like, you have too

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Speaker 7: many dimensions that need to stop eating so much at

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Speaker 7: New York style pizza.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I suppose. I suppose I need to have some

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Speaker 1: fractional dimensions.

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Speaker 7: So this is a kind of a crazy question. Question

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Speaker 7: is can an object be two dimensional? Like the object

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Speaker 7: itself only exists in two dimensions, or you know, maybe

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Speaker 7: it exists in a subset of our dimensions, or does

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Speaker 7: it mean that it's just like super thin.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the answer is yes to all of those.

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Speaker 1: We exist in three dimensions, and so every object you

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Speaker 1: look at exists in three dimensions. Every piece of food

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Speaker 1: you've eaten, everything you've tripped over, everything you've looked at,

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Speaker 1: exists in three dimensions because it's in this three D space.

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Speaker 1: And it's hard to imagine an object having four dimensions

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Speaker 1: in our three D space. But why can't a object

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Speaker 1: have two dimensions, be essentially only X and y and

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Speaker 1: have no height? Right to be a super thin slice?

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Speaker 1: Is that possible to have a lower dimensional object in

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Speaker 1: our universe?

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Speaker 7: Yeah, so this is a kind of a mind blowing question.

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Speaker 7: And so as usual we were wondering how many people

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Speaker 7: out there had thought about this question and whether or

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Speaker 7: not they have an answer to this strange and multi

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Speaker 7: dimensional or a dual dimensional query. So, as usual, Daniel

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Speaker 7: went out there into the wilds of the internet to

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Speaker 7: ask people can an object be two dimensional?

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Speaker 1: Thanks again to our willing volunteers. And if you would

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Speaker 1: like to answer some questions about tricky topics and hear

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Speaker 1: your speculation on the podcast, please write me two questions

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Speaker 1: at Daniel and Jorge dot com.

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Speaker 7: Here's what you had to say.

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Speaker 5: I don't really think that an object can be two

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Speaker 5: dimensional in a three dimensional space that we live in.

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Speaker 5: But if I think about it, what is a volume

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Speaker 5: of an object? It is the space between the particles

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Speaker 5: and not the particles themselves. So if the particles somehow

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Speaker 5: could form a perfectly flat sheet so that they only

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Speaker 5: extend in the extent hy exist, but they don't go

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Speaker 5: into the Z direction, that theoretically maybe we could call

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Speaker 5: an object like this to be a two dimensional object.

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Speaker 9: I suppose an object technically can't be two dimensional because

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Speaker 9: atoms have volume or there for three dimensional. But I

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Speaker 9: think there are situations way. For instance, if you have

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Speaker 9: one layer of graphine, it is certain that it is

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Speaker 9: treated as if it's two dimensional. Then I'm not sure

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Speaker 9: about this, but I think with the moldest conjecture, because

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Speaker 9: with the conformal field theory, you treat a three dimensional object,

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Speaker 9: for instance a black hole by looking only at it's

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Speaker 9: like surface or surface area. By translating it from the

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Speaker 9: string theory to the CFG, you almost treat it as

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Speaker 9: if it's two dimensional. I think that might be an example.

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Speaker 7: All right, some skepticism here. None of these two said, yes,

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Speaker 7: something can be two D.

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Speaker 1: We got rejected exactly.

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Speaker 7: And you had a third answer also, but the one

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Speaker 7: didn't make the cut.

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Speaker 1: Is that a two D three D joke.

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Speaker 7: To take a joke out of the out of this

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Speaker 7: flat topic.

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Speaker 1: That I'm impressed by the depth of your sense of humor.

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Speaker 7: All right, So none of the answers seem to think

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Speaker 7: you can have a two D object. One of them

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Speaker 7: said that because Adams a volume, and the other one

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Speaker 7: said because we live in a three D space. So

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Speaker 7: let's get into these strange conundrums. So Daniel, first of all,

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Speaker 7: what would you you say is a two D object?

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Speaker 7: How would you define it?

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Speaker 1: As usual, the definition is going to be critical as

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Speaker 1: to exactly what we mean by a two D object.

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Speaker 1: But let's start like, really theoretically, in an idealized sense,

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Speaker 1: I think the world is having three dimensions, in the

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Speaker 1: sense that there's three extensions, right, three coordinates. You need

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Speaker 1: to define your location in space, and so you can

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Speaker 1: think of an object having like one dimension is a line,

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Speaker 1: two dimensions would be a square, and any height on

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Speaker 1: that square would make it a cube, right, would make

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Speaker 1: it three dimensions. So a two D object would be

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Speaker 1: something that had no measurement in the third dimension, that

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Speaker 1: its location in the third dimension had only one edge,

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Speaker 1: not two edges, doesn't have like a start and an end.

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Speaker 1: It start and end are exactly the same location. So

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Speaker 1: it's you know, it would be essentially infinitely flat sheet

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Speaker 1: of paper, for example.

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Speaker 7: I see. So it's an object. It has to be

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Speaker 7: like a physical thing in our world that really only exists,

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Speaker 7: like it only takes up space in one direction. Like

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Speaker 7: you said, it's invisible if you look at it kind

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Speaker 7: of on the side.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because it can't exist in the third dimension. That

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Speaker 1: means that if you measured its height, the top of

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Speaker 1: it and the bottom of it would be exactly the

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Speaker 1: same number. Right, there's no height to it at all,

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Speaker 1: because anything more than zero would mean there's an extent

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Speaker 1: in that third dimension. And then it's just pretty thin,

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Speaker 1: not exactly thin. That we're looking for something which really

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Speaker 1: has zero height in that third dimension, but it needs

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Speaker 1: to exist in our space so we can interact with it.

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Speaker 1: You can see it from the side, for example. That's

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Speaker 1: the question, can an object like that exist? An object

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Speaker 1: on which you were a person and you were walking around,

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Speaker 1: you wouldn't even notice that there was a third dimension

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Speaker 1: because you don't only exist on that two D space,

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Speaker 1: you know, basically flat land.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, I'm a cartoonist and so, you know, making things

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Speaker 7: two D is is kind of my jam. But I

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Speaker 7: think it's also pretty cool to think about, like what

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Speaker 7: happens if you have multiple of these infinitely flat objects,

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Speaker 7: Like if you're stuck in a whole bunch of them together,

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Speaker 7: they would still be flat, they would still have zero height.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because any number times zero is zero, So you

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Speaker 1: can eat an infinitive number of slices of two D

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Speaker 1: pizza and you've eaten zero volume of pizza.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, you won't even grow in one dimension like your

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Speaker 7: belt size dimension.

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Speaker 1: No, it's zero volume right, So that means essentially you

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Speaker 1: can't have a two D slice of pizza.

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Speaker 7: Can you taste it?

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Speaker 1: Though?

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Speaker 7: Maybe you can taste it like if it hits your tongue?

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Speaker 7: You know, is that possible?

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Speaker 1: It's weir thin?

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Speaker 7: Have we invented the perfect two D diet? The two

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Speaker 7: D Quantum Diet by Daniel and Orhe download the app?

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Speaker 1: Now we will sputter a layer of pizza two D

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Speaker 1: pizza onto your tongue. Yeah, because you can't pick it

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Speaker 1: up right.

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Speaker 7: Well, I guess the question is is it possible it

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Speaker 7: all to have an object that is like that, that

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Speaker 7: is infinitely thin? Are there loss of physics that would

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Speaker 7: prevent it? Or is it theoretically possible?

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Speaker 1: So I still have three answers to that, you know,

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Speaker 1: a yes, a no, and then maybe. So starting with

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Speaker 1: a yes. You know that everything in our world is

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Speaker 1: built out of particles and particles in our model, how

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Speaker 1: many dimensions do they have? Well, we think of them

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Speaker 1: as points. They are point particles. We don't know if

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Speaker 1: the electron has any substructure in it, so we treat

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Speaker 1: it as if it doesn't. We consider it to be

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Speaker 1: a dot, essentially an infinitely small dot. That means it's

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Speaker 1: zero dimensional. So in our theory, an electron takes up

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Speaker 1: no volume. So if you can have a zero D particle,

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Speaker 1: you can make a one D object by having two

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Speaker 1: of them, and then the line between them is a

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Speaker 1: one D object, and four of them are actually just

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Speaker 1: three of them make a plane that in principle is

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Speaker 1: a two dimensional object. So that's sort of the yes

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Speaker 1: answer on the theoretical idea.

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Speaker 7: Like if I took one atom or like one quark,

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Speaker 7: right and I lined it up with like one hundred

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Speaker 7: other quarks in the same line, that would technically be

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Speaker 7: an object by our regular definition, but it would have

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Speaker 7: only one dimension technically.

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Speaker 1: Exactly if you believe that particles are zero dimensional, and

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't really know if that really flies,

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Speaker 1: because particles are an excitation and a quantum field and

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Speaker 1: they're localized, so probably not exactly zero dimensional. But if

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Speaker 1: you start from a zero dimensional particle, then yes, a

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Speaker 1: line of them is a one dimensional object.

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Speaker 7: I guess the problem is that you know the particles

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Speaker 7: are point objects, but they have kind of a three

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Speaker 7: D presence.

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Speaker 1: Yes, they do have a three D presence, because how

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Speaker 1: would you build that one D line of quarks. The

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Speaker 1: way that you connect things is through their forces. Right.

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Speaker 1: The reason that an atom is an atom is because

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Speaker 1: of the forces that bind the electron to the proton,

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Speaker 1: and those forces, as you say, have a three D presence.

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Speaker 1: And if you have a pile of hydrogen, for example,

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Speaker 1: the reason it's not just all in one spot is

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Speaker 1: that those atoms repel each other, and so they are

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Speaker 1: forces between them that give an object volume, and that

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Speaker 1: volume is then three dimensional because the forces are three dimensional.

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Speaker 7: Right, But I guess even those forces could fall in

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Speaker 7: that line. Like let's say you empty out the universe.

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Speaker 7: The universe is empty and you only have two quarks.

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Speaker 7: That's technically a two D object, right.

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Speaker 1: That's a two D object, But it fails the other test,

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Speaker 1: like could you stack another one on top of it

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Speaker 1: exactly and get zero height? If you bring another one

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Speaker 1: next to it, it would not want to be exactly

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Speaker 1: on top of it, and so really it's a three

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Speaker 1: D object. It's just sort of like a very thin tube.

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Speaker 7: All right. That was your yes answer. What's your maybe answer?

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Speaker 1: Yes, So the yes answer was start from zero D particles,

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Speaker 1: you can The no answer was zero D particles really

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Speaker 1: have three D forces, So no, the maybe answer is

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Speaker 1: remember that our world is quantum mechanical, and so in

442
00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:38,040
Speaker 1: some sense you don't have to have infinite thinness to

443
00:20:38,119 --> 00:20:42,480
Speaker 1: be a minimal thinness, right. Our universe has a minimal length.

444
00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,160
Speaker 1: So now imagine an object which is normal in one

445
00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:48,600
Speaker 1: dimension and in the second dimension, but in the third

446
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:52,160
Speaker 1: dimension it has the minimal length like the just one

447
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,919
Speaker 1: space pixel essentially wide, that you might consider to be

448
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:57,720
Speaker 1: a two dimensional object.

449
00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:01,080
Speaker 7: Oh, I see, by like the definition of in the universe,

450
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:06,360
Speaker 7: if something is thinner than the quantum minimum distance, then

451
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 7: you kind of have to say it's flat, perfectly flat, right,

452
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 7: because you can't resolve that it's any thinner.

453
00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, you couldn't have a thinner object except for in

454
00:21:15,520 --> 00:21:19,040
Speaker 1: your mind as a geometer imagining perfect two D objects.

455
00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,040
Speaker 1: But in our universe things you could build, you couldn't

456
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 1: have a thinner object. So you should crown that to

457
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,160
Speaker 1: be either the thinnest three dimensional object possible or a

458
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:31,280
Speaker 1: two D object. And we'll talk about it a little

459
00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:33,359
Speaker 1: bit later. But there are some objects like that in

460
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:37,080
Speaker 1: our universe that follow the math for two D objects.

461
00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,560
Speaker 7: Interesting, it gets complicated. We'll have to go deep.

462
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: We'll have to try to avoid being shallow.

463
00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,639
Speaker 7: All right, Well, let's get it into whether or not

464
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,920
Speaker 7: there are theoretically to the objects out there and whether

465
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 7: or not they exist in the real world. But first,

466
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:53,560
Speaker 7: let's take a quick break.

467
00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:00,800
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518
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Speaker 1: about the environmental impact of each and every bite, But

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520
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Speaker 7: All right, we're talking about two d objects, Daniel, and

536
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 7: now this is a podcast. Does that mean that listeners

537
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 7: have to put on like two d earphones, like a

538
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 7: red and a blue one. Would that help?

539
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,160
Speaker 1: Well, they're hearing the answers in two d right, one

540
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:48,040
Speaker 1: from me and one from you.

541
00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:53,040
Speaker 7: I guess, yeah, dudes, two dudes, just two dads or dudes.

542
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,119
Speaker 7: So technically it is a two d podcast.

543
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,080
Speaker 1: That's right. And sometimes we agree with each other and

544
00:25:58,119 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: sometimes we don't.

545
00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:03,239
Speaker 7: Sometimes it is sometimes we cancel out. It's all a

546
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:03,840
Speaker 7: math problem.

547
00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,879
Speaker 1: Hopefully there's constructive interference in the explanation dimension.

548
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 7: All right, you just went too deep there. I guess

549
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 7: one question you can ask is whether or not you

550
00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 7: can theoretically have to the objects. And as I understand,

551
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:18,120
Speaker 7: the physics does allow for theoretical to the objects.

552
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:21,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, theoretical to the objects are not a problem. We

553
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,760
Speaker 1: talked before about this idea of the universe as a hologram.

554
00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 1: This is a really powerful idea and it shows that

555
00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:32,280
Speaker 1: all the information in a three dimensional space can actually

556
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 1: be encoded on the surface of that space. You know,

557
00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: take like a sphere and imagine all the stuff inside

558
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: of it, all the physics that's going on inside that

559
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 1: sphere might actually just be encoded on the surface of

560
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 1: that sphere. And that's a really powerful idea because it

561
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,359
Speaker 1: helps people do some calculations, like there's two totally different

562
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: kinds of theories that have different dimensions and this links

563
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: them together. It's really important results for string theory, but

564
00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: also it's really cool for thinking about black holes, like

565
00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: what's inside a black hole? And is it possible that

566
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,399
Speaker 1: all the information inside a black hole is actually just

567
00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,320
Speaker 1: embedded on the surface of the event horizon.

568
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, we had a whole podcast about whether or not

569
00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,800
Speaker 7: the universe is a hologram imprinted on the surface of

570
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 7: a black hole. And you know, as a cartoon is.

571
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 7: I'm a big believer in that you can capture whole

572
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 7: worlds in a sheet of paper. You know, it's my

573
00:27:23,160 --> 00:27:26,639
Speaker 7: whole philosophy of life. But I guess the question is,

574
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:29,200
Speaker 7: you know, it's cool that you can maybe project the

575
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 7: whole three D world into a two D surface, like,

576
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,840
Speaker 7: for example, of a black hole, but don't you lose

577
00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 7: information like in a cartoon, I don't know what's standing

578
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:41,080
Speaker 7: behind my cartoon characters, Like, wouldn't that information get lost?

579
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 1: Yeah? So there's three spatial dimensions in the universe and

580
00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: then two spatial dimensions on the surface. But there are

581
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: quantum fields on that two dimensional surface, and those fields

582
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: can encode all sorts of information, Like a field can

583
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: have multiple dimensions, it can be a vector field. For example,

584
00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: at every point in space, a field can have more

585
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,240
Speaker 1: than one number. You can have an entire vector, which

586
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,879
Speaker 1: is three numbers, or five numbers or ten numbers. So

587
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: you could have lots of information sort of packed into

588
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:10,120
Speaker 1: every unit of space. So even though the space has

589
00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: fewer dimensions, the fields in that space could have more

590
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: information sort of per unit of space, so you end

591
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: up with the same amount of information.

592
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:20,399
Speaker 7: Mm, you mean, you're cheat.

593
00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:23,840
Speaker 1: It comes down to the definitions.

594
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 7: I mean, it's kind of like just stacking pixels on

595
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 7: top of each other kind of right. It's kind of

596
00:28:29,359 --> 00:28:31,760
Speaker 7: like than a three D movie that you when you

597
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 7: go to the theater. It's like the same screen, but

598
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 7: it's giving you twice the amount of information in the

599
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 7: same image.

600
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's just another way to mathematically express things.

601
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 1: And this concept invented by one Maldicena is called ADSCFT

602
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: because it shows us how one set of theories ADS

603
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: which means anti dissitor space, which is what gravity works in,

604
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 1: is really equivalent to these conformal field theories which operate

605
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 1: in two dimensional space. And so you're right, it's a trick,

606
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,400
Speaker 1: but it's also it's a cool trick because it shows

607
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:03,600
Speaker 1: us that two totally different fields are actually have been

608
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 1: doing the same thing the whole time, that three D

609
00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 1: movies are really just movies.

610
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 7: Right, And so the idea is that maybe our entire

611
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 7: universe that we think is three D is actually only

612
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 7: two D, Like maybe we're all living on the surface

613
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 7: of a black hole or something.

614
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe our universe actually is only two dimensions and

615
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,600
Speaker 1: we have this experience of a third dimension because of

616
00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:27,360
Speaker 1: the richness of the quantum fields gives the illusion of

617
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,400
Speaker 1: a third dimension. That's the hologram. Right. So that's a

618
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: fun idea, and it helps us think about how to

619
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 1: solve black holes and construct string theories, and goes to

620
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: fun philosophical arguments about like, well, what does it really

621
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 1: mean to have three dimensions or two plus one illusory dimensions?

622
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:43,960
Speaker 1: But you know, if that's the case, that mean that

623
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,040
Speaker 1: fundamentally the whole universe really is two D.

624
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 7: Yeah, we're all inside a comic book, right, It's like

625
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 7: everything in the universe is a two D object in

626
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 7: that case, right.

627
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the comic book is really an excellent example

628
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 1: because what do you do when you look at the

629
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: comic book, is you don't just exis the two D

630
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: surface of the paper, you imagine a whole rich world

631
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: in your mind. You know, a well drawn comic creates

632
00:30:06,360 --> 00:30:09,840
Speaker 1: in the mind of the reader this whole three dimensional model.

633
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,160
Speaker 1: And that's exactly what we're talking about here, is having

634
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: enough information on a two D surface to project out

635
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 1: into a fully realized three D world.

636
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 7: Well, I called DIBs and being Superman in this comic.

637
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,760
Speaker 1: Book, all right, I call DIBs on all those super

638
00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: thin slices of pizza in your comic book.

639
00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,120
Speaker 7: Have at it. I'd rather fly than although if you're

640
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 7: flying a comic book, you're you're really not going anywhere.

641
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 1: Does that counts exercise? When Superman flies? Does he burning calories?

642
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: This his fifth bit counted?

643
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 7: Well, I think he can fly if he doesn't get

644
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,000
Speaker 7: enough sun, So technically I guess he is expending energy.

645
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: Is that right? He can't fly but he doesn't get

646
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: enough sun. Does he photosynthesize?

647
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:44,760
Speaker 10: Yeah?

648
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 7: Don't you know anything about Superman, Daniel, about the physics

649
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 7: of Superman?

650
00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: Apparently I don't.

651
00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 7: He gets his power from the yellow sunwar So he's

652
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 7: basically a plant, basically a super solar cell. Yeah, solar

653
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 7: battery all right, Well, so that's one kind of dimensional object.

654
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 7: Is this idea that the whole world is universe is

655
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:06,479
Speaker 7: two dimensional? But there are also ways in which the

656
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,240
Speaker 7: theory says that you can have kind of two dimensional

657
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,160
Speaker 7: things in our three D world, right.

658
00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, And earlier we were talking about building things which

659
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 1: are the thinnest that could possibly be in a quantum universe. Thedea,

660
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 1: there is that the universe we don't think is infinitely dividable.

661
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,360
Speaker 1: We don't think we can take a mile and cut

662
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 1: in half and then cut in half again, and cut

663
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,160
Speaker 1: and half again and keep doing that forever. We think

664
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 1: that probably there's a smallest unit of distance, below which

665
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,880
Speaker 1: it doesn't make any sense to talk about distance because

666
00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 1: there's no measure that's smaller than that. It's like pixels

667
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 1: on the screen. And so the idea is, if the

668
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: universe is quantized, if there's a minimum distance, then like

669
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 1: a sheet of something, which is the thinnest possible sheet,

670
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,680
Speaker 1: might effectively be a two D material. Now, the problem

671
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: is that we think that distance, if it exists, is

672
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:59,280
Speaker 1: probably really really small, like ten to the minus thirty

673
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,720
Speaker 1: five met and we're certainly not capable of making anything

674
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,640
Speaker 1: or observing anything that thin today, but quantum mechanics has

675
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: other implications. You know, quantum mechanics limits how particles can move.

676
00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 1: Another idea, which has been around for several decades is

677
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: to make something that's so thin that it's thinner than

678
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,000
Speaker 1: the wavelength of the electrons, so that the electrons in

679
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: that object are essentially trapped to only move in two

680
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,480
Speaker 1: dimensions because the thing they're stuck in doesn't allow them

681
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,600
Speaker 1: to get excited or move in that third dimension.

682
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:30,720
Speaker 7: I see. I feel like there's two ideas here. One

683
00:32:30,760 --> 00:32:35,360
Speaker 7: is making things smaller than the smallest resolution of the universe,

684
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 7: and the other one is making things smaller than those

685
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:41,560
Speaker 7: electron wave length. So which one are are you? Are

686
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 7: they the same or which one are you talking about here?

687
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:46,880
Speaker 1: They're not the same. One is very fundamental, like to

688
00:32:46,920 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: the nature of space and time and just sort of

689
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:52,040
Speaker 1: to get you thinking about how the universe really is quantized,

690
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: how there's like units of thinness, and the thinnest unit

691
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,719
Speaker 1: for space is really really really thin, but the thinnest

692
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: unit for an electron is much much larger, and something

693
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:04,520
Speaker 1: that's really kind of achievable because an electron has an

694
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 1: extent in space, which is much more significant. So you know,

695
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 1: can you build something which makes it so that electrons

696
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:14,239
Speaker 1: can only move in two dimensions? That can be much

697
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: much bigger than the fundamental unit of space. I mean imagine,

698
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,640
Speaker 1: for example, taking two sheets of glass and putting ping

699
00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: pong balls between them. The ping pong balls can move

700
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,640
Speaker 1: between the sheets of glass, but they can't move up

701
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: and down at all. If you could build a material

702
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: like that where the electrons only move in two dimensions,

703
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,920
Speaker 1: then you might consider that to be a two dimensional material.

704
00:33:34,200 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 7: I guess the hard question is what is the object? Like,

705
00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:40,720
Speaker 7: are the electrons the object or the thin sheet is

706
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 7: the object because the sheet itself isn't made out of

707
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 7: multiple layers of atoms, or are you talking about making

708
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 7: something that's just one layer of atoms.

709
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:50,720
Speaker 1: So the basic idea is to make something which is

710
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: a single layer of atoms. It's a lot like what

711
00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: we were talking about earlier. We take a single quark

712
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:56,920
Speaker 1: and you line it up and you make a sheet

713
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 1: of quarks. If you could get these things which bind

714
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: the together and to make a single layer of atoms,

715
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: like a material that's just one atomic layer thick, then

716
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: the electrons in that material would move as if they

717
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: were in a two dimensional world.

718
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 7: I see. So then you're saying like kind of like

719
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 7: that collection of electrons is then sort of a two

720
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:21,239
Speaker 7: D object because it can't really, you know, move in

721
00:34:21,360 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 7: any other dimension except the one on the surface.

722
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, because there's no room for them to move like

723
00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: ping pong balls trapped between two sheets of glass. Electrons

724
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: are bound to the atoms and if there's no like

725
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: layer up or layer down for them to go, then

726
00:34:35,200 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: they're sort of trapped on that sheet.

727
00:34:37,200 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 7: So that's pretty cool. Is it hard to make something

728
00:34:39,320 --> 00:34:41,839
Speaker 7: like that, like to make a sheet that's only one

729
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 7: atom thick?

730
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: It turns out it's surprisingly easy, and you probably make

731
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 1: them all the time when you draw cartoons.

732
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,360
Speaker 7: Oh really, are you saying my ideas have nof.

733
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: No, it turns out that you make them every time

734
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:58,720
Speaker 1: you sharpen a pencil. You make a two dimensional material.

735
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,080
Speaker 1: Because carbon is a really amazing object and you can

736
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 1: form all sorts of really crazy stuff, and it is

737
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:08,160
Speaker 1: possible to make sheets of carbon that are just one

738
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 1: atom thick. And one way to do it is to

739
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 1: break off pieces of basically graphite, which is pencil lead,

740
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: and graphite is so brittle that basically, every time you

741
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: write on a surface of paper or you sharpen your pencil,

742
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,360
Speaker 1: you are generating these sheets of graphine.

743
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 7: Interesting, So like carbon kind of likes to do that, right,

744
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 7: Like it kind of likes to arrange itself in those

745
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:31,000
Speaker 7: sheets and not like the cubes or clusters.

746
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: It likes to do all sorts of things. And so

747
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: you have to get it to do this. But graphite

748
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 1: exactly is very brittle, and so it's not that hard

749
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:40,919
Speaker 1: like peel off layers of it to make these two

750
00:35:41,080 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: dimensional sheets of carbon. And so I thought this was

751
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: super interesting, and I went to ask a friend of

752
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: mine who's actually a professor here at UC Irvine, is

753
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: this is possible? What it really means, and what she

754
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: thinks about two dimensional materials?

755
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 7: Nice? Who did you talk to?

756
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 1: So I talked to a young assistant professor and named

757
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: Judith Rohanyi, very friendly. She's from Hungary and she just

758
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 1: came to UCI about a year and a half ago,

759
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: and she arrived during the pandemic, which means she's never

760
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,719
Speaker 1: really gotten to experience the campus life here.

761
00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,719
Speaker 7: Wow. And so she works on these two D materials, right,

762
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 7: she makes these flat sheets of carbon and then she

763
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 7: puts electrons in them, and then the electrons sort of

764
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,480
Speaker 7: move around in this one dimensional world.

765
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, she's actually a theorist, so she mostly like writes

766
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:25,520
Speaker 1: papers about them and thinks about them rather than actually

767
00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:28,400
Speaker 1: building these things. But yeah, she's a pretty deep understanding

768
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:29,680
Speaker 1: of how they work. All right.

769
00:36:29,719 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 7: So you asked her to talk to us about some

770
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 7: of these materials.

771
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I asked her if she thought two dimensional materials

772
00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 1: were possible and what it meant for an object to

773
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 1: be two dimensional?

774
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:41,919
Speaker 7: All right. Here is what Professor Rohani had to say.

775
00:36:42,040 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 10: So you know, like for theorists, anything is possible, right,

776
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 10: because I just to come on and then say like, well,

777
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 10: it's just consider something that has two spacial dimensions instead

778
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:56,719
Speaker 10: of three, and that would give me some kind of confinement.

779
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,719
Speaker 10: So you know my mobile of Porticus for example. See,

780
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 10: like electrons they can only move in two dimensions, but

781
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 10: not in the third dimension.

782
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 1: And then there comes like.

783
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 10: Real life, you know, like I have a real chunk

784
00:37:08,520 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 10: of material that definitely has extensions in or three dimensions, right,

785
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 10: So that's very different. It's like, I guess if you

786
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,879
Speaker 10: ask this question like fifteen years ago, I also say like, yeah,

787
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 10: two D is very terretical. There is no such thing as.

788
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 11: A two D material, right, because why would it not

789
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,319
Speaker 11: like fold up, you know, like like you know, why

790
00:37:30,320 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 11: would it stay like straight as a sheet of paper

791
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 11: or something, or how could it exist? Like what would stabilize.

792
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 10: Anything like that? And now it turns out that that

793
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,919
Speaker 10: there are actually two dimensional materials, and then what those

794
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:43,839
Speaker 10: are kind of like if you imagine that you have

795
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 10: a material that is say like one autom thick or

796
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,240
Speaker 10: maybe maybe still it is a better way to say,

797
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,040
Speaker 10: or maybe just a few atoms in, like maybe two

798
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,080
Speaker 10: or three atoms in, and that's that's actually possible to

799
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,839
Speaker 10: create these materials. So actually kind of field off from

800
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 10: their three dimensional so let's say modern material or different

801
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 10: types of materials, they really exist and people are doing

802
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 10: different kind of experiments and so it's not just in

803
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:16,520
Speaker 10: all theoretical dream anymore. It's actually an existing thing, which

804
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:18,960
Speaker 10: is very exciting because they do have a lot of

805
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:24,279
Speaker 10: these similarities to sred action sudium models or materials.

806
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,920
Speaker 7: All right. I like, as she said, for a theorist,

807
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 7: anything is possible.

808
00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 1: I think that really tells you something about this field.

809
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,520
Speaker 1: This is an idea which came about like in the

810
00:38:34,560 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 1: forties and fifties, people were wondering, is this really possible?

811
00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: They were thinking about it and theorizing about it, and

812
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,480
Speaker 1: only recently, only like twenty years ago, did this actually

813
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,200
Speaker 1: become realizable. So this is something it's sort of like

814
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 1: the black holes for condensed matter physics. They're wondering, mathematically,

815
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: we figured this out, but could anybody actually make this

816
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,560
Speaker 1: thing in real life? So I think we're sort of

817
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,719
Speaker 1: living in the science fiction future for a lot of

818
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,040
Speaker 1: these condensed matter physicists.

819
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 7: That's pretty cool. And she says that, you know, if

820
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:05,080
Speaker 7: you do confine electrons into one of these thin materials,

821
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 7: they do sort of actually kind of move like in

822
00:39:07,320 --> 00:39:08,080
Speaker 7: a two D world.

823
00:39:08,160 --> 00:39:10,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, and it makes the thing really really different. And

824
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: that's what's really interesting. It's that if you take a

825
00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: whole loaf of bread and you cut in half, you

826
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,680
Speaker 1: have half a loaf of bread, right, But at some point,

827
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 1: if you take really really thin slices, it stops being

828
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,719
Speaker 1: bread and it starts turning into something else.

829
00:39:22,840 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 7: Right. It turns into toast that's totally different bread or biscotti.

830
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 7: It turns into biscatti. You know, you have to pay

831
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:32,200
Speaker 7: like a few bucks more Starbucks to get.

832
00:39:32,080 --> 00:39:34,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, put tomato, sauce and cheese on it and poor, hey,

833
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,759
Speaker 1: we'll call it a pizza. But I think it's really

834
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,200
Speaker 1: cool that you take something and you make a thin

835
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: enough slice that it basically turns into something else. Like

836
00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:44,399
Speaker 1: imagine taking a loaf of bread and making it such

837
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:46,440
Speaker 1: a thin slice that you get a slice of ham,

838
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: you know, or it turns into cheese or something. That's

839
00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: basically what's happening here. You take graphite, which is you know,

840
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: this like thing inside pencil lead, and you take such

841
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 1: a thin slice off of it that it comes off

842
00:39:57,239 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: with completely different properties, totally different sort of mechanical strength

843
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:03,800
Speaker 1: and electrical properties and all that stuff.

844
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 7: Wow, that sounds like delicious magic right there. All right,

845
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,440
Speaker 7: So those are theoretical to the objects, and so now

846
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 7: let's get into real to the objects. Are any of

847
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 7: these actually realizable in our world? And maybe they're all

848
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:20,560
Speaker 7: around this, So let's get into that. But first let's

849
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:21,640
Speaker 7: take another quick break.

850
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 1: When you pop a piece of cheese into your mouth

851
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:31,440
Speaker 1: or enjoy a rich spoonful of Greek yogurt, you're probably

852
00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:35,479
Speaker 1: not thinking about the environmental impact of each and every bite,

853
00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,200
Speaker 1: but the people in the dairy industry are. US Dairy

854
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: has set themselves some ambitious sustainability goals, including being greenhouse

855
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 1: gas neutral by twenty to fifty. That's why they're working

856
00:40:45,160 --> 00:40:47,479
Speaker 1: hard every day to find new ways to reduce waste,

857
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:51,799
Speaker 1: conserve natural resources, and drive down greenhouse gas emissions. Take water,

858
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:54,919
Speaker 1: for example, most dairy farms reuse water up to four

859
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,439
Speaker 1: times the same water cools the milk, cleans equipment, washes

860
00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 1: the barn, and irrigates the cross. How is US dairy

861
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:05,080
Speaker 1: tackling greenhouse gases. Many farms use anaerobic digestors that turn

862
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:09,040
Speaker 1: the methane from maneuver into renewable energy that can power farms, towns,

863
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,120
Speaker 1: and electric cars. So the next time you grab a

864
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: slice of pizza or lick an ice cream cone, know

865
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 1: that dairy farmers and processors around the country are using

866
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:19,439
Speaker 1: the latest practices and innovations to provide the nutrient dense

867
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: dairy products we love with less of an impact. Visit

868
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,200
Speaker 1: US dairy dot com slash sustainability to learn more.

869
00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,480
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870
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871
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872
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873
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874
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875
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Speaker 7: All right, Daniel, we're talking about real life to d objects.

895
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:52,920
Speaker 5: Now.

896
00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:54,680
Speaker 7: We talked about it in theory. It could be that

897
00:42:54,719 --> 00:42:56,759
Speaker 7: we're all in the too the world, or maybe you

898
00:42:56,800 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 7: can make electrons behave like they're in two demands, but

899
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:02,680
Speaker 7: in the real world that we live in, at least

900
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,080
Speaker 7: that the one that seems like it's three dimensions. Can

901
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:06,920
Speaker 7: you have two of the objects?

902
00:43:06,960 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 1: So you sort of can. I mean it's a little

903
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,560
Speaker 1: bit cheating. They're not technically two dimensions because the materials

904
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 1: themselves do have a height, But the mathematics on these

905
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,920
Speaker 1: materials is the same as if they were two dimensions.

906
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,440
Speaker 1: Like if the world was two dimensional, mathematics and physics

907
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: especially would be different. For example, we know that if

908
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,839
Speaker 1: you shine a light, then the strength of that light

909
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 1: decreases like one over the distance squared. That's one of

910
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: the distance squared. Because our universe is in three dimensions,

911
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,160
Speaker 1: it's the same amount of light spread over the surface

912
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:40,439
Speaker 1: of a sphere and the surface of a sphere goes

913
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 1: like the radius squared. So there's things like that where

914
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,360
Speaker 1: mathematical relationships tell you about the dimensionality of the world

915
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,880
Speaker 1: you're living in. And when we study the behavior on

916
00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: some of these physical materials we're going to be talking about,

917
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,160
Speaker 1: we see the mathematical relationships you expect from a two

918
00:43:56,239 --> 00:43:58,959
Speaker 1: dimensional world, not a three dimensional world.

919
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 7: I see. So they're like three D objects that behave

920
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 7: or you know, follow the rules of a two dimensional universe.

921
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: Yes, exactly. And so in the sense if you're following

922
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,800
Speaker 1: the math of a two dimensional world, are you really

923
00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: a two D object? Hmmm?

924
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:14,600
Speaker 7: Interesting? Like if you do live in a cartoon, are

925
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:15,799
Speaker 7: you really real or not?

926
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,960
Speaker 1: If you cosplay enough a cartoon, are you really in

927
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 1: that cartoon?

928
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 7: Hey, no judging, no judging. So this step us through

929
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 7: what are some of these real life to the objects

930
00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 7: or three the objects that behave like to the objects.

931
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:30,440
Speaker 1: So one of them is looking at the surface of

932
00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: liquid helium. Liquid helium, of course, is helium that's super

933
00:44:33,880 --> 00:44:36,040
Speaker 1: duper duper cold so that it turns into a liquid

934
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: and if you drop electrons onto liquid helium, then they

935
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,800
Speaker 1: like to stick to the surface like liquid helium. Is

936
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,759
Speaker 1: this really weird surface tension, and electrons like to stick

937
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 1: to the surface, but they're free to slide along it

938
00:44:48,239 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 1: because liquid helium is super fluid, so electrons can slide

939
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: along it really easily, but they're stuck on the surface.

940
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,040
Speaker 1: And of course the surface of an object is two dimensional,

941
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: and so these electrons are confined to the surface, but

942
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 1: they can slide around. So it's really a lot like

943
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: those pingpong balls stuck between two glass planes. And so

944
00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,359
Speaker 1: this is something people can actually build, and they call

945
00:45:08,440 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 1: this a two dimensional electron gas, not a gas because

946
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: it's like something you can breathe. But these are just

947
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:18,279
Speaker 1: sort of like idealized particles bouncing around and moving, and

948
00:45:18,320 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 1: it follows the laws of thermodynamics in two dimensions.

949
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,839
Speaker 7: It's almost like just having ping pong balls and a table, right,

950
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 7: Like they're just sitting on the surface of the ping

951
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,960
Speaker 7: pong table and they sort of roll around, but they

952
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 7: can't just jump off.

953
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 1: Right, But if they bounce into each other, then they

954
00:45:34,280 --> 00:45:36,960
Speaker 1: would sometimes leave the surface. You can get that sort

955
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: of excitation in the third dimension, but if they're trapped,

956
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:41,839
Speaker 1: if they really are confined, you have like a layer

957
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: of glass over your ping pong table. Then they really

958
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,160
Speaker 1: are trapped in there and the only way they can

959
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,240
Speaker 1: move is in two dimensions.

960
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,719
Speaker 7: I see, So the electrons are sort of stuck to

961
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 7: the surface of the liquid helium.

962
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's some weird chemistry thing where they're stuck to

963
00:45:54,239 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 1: the surface of the liquid helium.

964
00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 7: And like how you say it's some weird chemistry thing.

965
00:45:57,880 --> 00:45:59,280
Speaker 7: I mean, you don't have a good answer.

966
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:01,920
Speaker 1: That means I don't understand it. I'm not a chemist.

967
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:04,480
Speaker 1: All of chemistry is some weird chemistry thing to be

968
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 1: all right.

969
00:46:06,239 --> 00:46:08,759
Speaker 7: So that's one kind of two D pseudo object. What

970
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:09,720
Speaker 7: are some other kinds?

971
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: The most interesting, and I think the most exciting is

972
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:16,800
Speaker 1: this thing called graphene. Graphene is a two D sheet

973
00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: of carbon atoms that assemble themselves into an object. You

974
00:46:20,600 --> 00:46:22,640
Speaker 1: know that carbon can make lots of different things. It

975
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,800
Speaker 1: can make diamond, you can make graphite, which is basically coal,

976
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,240
Speaker 1: but it can also make all sorts of other things.

977
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:30,600
Speaker 1: And I love carbon and all of its forms because

978
00:46:30,600 --> 00:46:32,879
Speaker 1: it really makes a point which I think is really

979
00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: deeply true about the universe, which is that the nature

980
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 1: of an object is not about what it's made out of,

981
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 1: but about how those things are put together, so you

982
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:42,239
Speaker 1: can put the same carbon atoms together to make a

983
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:44,680
Speaker 1: diamond or a lump of coal. And that really tells

984
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,160
Speaker 1: you that it's really just about how you build the thing,

985
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 1: and there's a really weird and unique way that you

986
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: can build it to make this single atomic layer of

987
00:46:53,239 --> 00:46:55,359
Speaker 1: carbon atoms. And they call that graphene.

988
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, and that was the Nobel Prize maybe like ten

989
00:46:58,120 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 7: or fifteen years ago, right, whereas they discover it by

990
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,239
Speaker 7: using scotch tape on pencil lead shavings.

991
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:07,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, in twenty ten. They won the Nobel Prize for

992
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 1: an experiment they published in two thousand and four. And

993
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 1: these were two folks in the UK that, as you say,

994
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: use scotch tape. They took like pieces of graphite and

995
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 1: they realized that if you get scotch tape on the

996
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: graphite and you pull it away, you get thinner pieces

997
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 1: of graphite, sometimes very very thin. And then they would

998
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: pry these pieces of scotch tape open and they would

999
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: do it again and again and again until they got

1000
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,879
Speaker 1: mono layers of graphite, which they called graphene.

1001
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 7: Right. It's like you create like a sheet of single

1002
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:38,360
Speaker 7: carbon atoms.

1003
00:47:38,440 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, a sheet of single carbon atoms. Now in your mind,

1004
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:43,640
Speaker 1: you might be imagining like that they're rolling out some

1005
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,080
Speaker 1: huge roll of this stuff that's like ten meters by

1006
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: ten meters. What they were able to do in their

1007
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:51,920
Speaker 1: first paper were pieces of graphene that were ten microns

1008
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: in size.

1009
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:54,799
Speaker 7: That's still pretty big. I mean it's like, you know,

1010
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:57,880
Speaker 7: maybe a couple one hundred atoms in each side.

1011
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 1: Absolutely, so it's pretty impressive. And they had some bigger

1012
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,160
Speaker 1: pieces that you could see by eye that weren't actually

1013
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,560
Speaker 1: down to one atomic layer. There were like several atomic layers.

1014
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 1: This is not a very precise method. You know, scotch

1015
00:48:09,760 --> 00:48:12,000
Speaker 1: tape on pencil shavings essentially.

1016
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:13,239
Speaker 7: I mean, it's not like duct tape. If you use

1017
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 7: duct tape, then then you're really doing real physics.

1018
00:48:15,719 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 1: I would guess that every experimental Nobel prize since duct

1019
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,720
Speaker 1: tape was invented has had duct tape somewhere in their experience.

1020
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,760
Speaker 7: That mister Ducks should get his own prize.

1021
00:48:25,120 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: In engineering somewhere. But it also means that we've probably

1022
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: all been generating sheets of graphene every time we've used pencils,

1023
00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 1: because this stuff really is so riddle. You get these

1024
00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:38,520
Speaker 1: little sheets of graphine, these two dimensional materials falling off

1025
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:39,320
Speaker 1: of your pencils.

1026
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,880
Speaker 7: Yeah, and graphine is interesting because it's not just like flat,

1027
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:46,799
Speaker 7: almost two dimensional, but it has some pretty amazing properties. Right.

1028
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,960
Speaker 1: It's really an incredibly different kind of stuff than graphite.

1029
00:48:51,120 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 1: You know, Graphite is stuff in your pencil, not very strong, right,

1030
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,800
Speaker 1: You wouldn't want to build like a sheet of armor

1031
00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:59,959
Speaker 1: out of this stuff. But graphene is two hundred times strong,

1032
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,440
Speaker 1: longer than steal by weight, and it's like a sheet

1033
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 1: of It is a thousand times lighter than a sheet

1034
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:06,360
Speaker 1: of paper.

1035
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 7: What does that mean? Stronger, Like if you pull in

1036
00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:10,760
Speaker 7: it or try to poke through it, it'll be stronger

1037
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:12,400
Speaker 7: than if you made it out of steel.

1038
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:14,520
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. It can support the weight, so you can

1039
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:17,279
Speaker 1: hang something from it, for example, or build things out

1040
00:49:17,280 --> 00:49:19,960
Speaker 1: of it. It's stronger than steel. You could, for example,

1041
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: make a hammock that's so thin it'd be invisible, and

1042
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:26,160
Speaker 1: a cat could sit on the hammock and be like

1043
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: floating in air.

1044
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 7: Cool. And it also has interesting electrical properties.

1045
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:29,920
Speaker 8: Right.

1046
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: It's really an incredible material because it has the most

1047
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: electrical and thermal conductivity of any material we know about

1048
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:41,160
Speaker 1: at room temperature. So it's like the strongest, lightest, most

1049
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:45,960
Speaker 1: electrically conductive, most normally conductive material basically we've ever discovered.

1050
00:49:46,160 --> 00:49:48,160
Speaker 7: Now is the idea then to make like computer chips

1051
00:49:48,160 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 7: out of it, Like instead of using silicon and you know,

1052
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:55,160
Speaker 7: doping it and printing it, you could maybe draw it

1053
00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 7: using graphine.

1054
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,320
Speaker 1: That was the original idea because we know that chips

1055
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 1: need to get small learn smaller for computers to get

1056
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 1: faster and faster. But we're sort of approaching the limit

1057
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: of what semiconductors can do, and it's really hard to

1058
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:11,440
Speaker 1: imagine making things that are smaller out of metal. So

1059
00:50:11,520 --> 00:50:15,719
Speaker 1: these guys achieved creating a material which is electrically conductive

1060
00:50:15,760 --> 00:50:18,600
Speaker 1: and so can be used to form these chips and

1061
00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: is super duper narrow. So that's exactly what people are

1062
00:50:21,640 --> 00:50:25,600
Speaker 1: working on applications of graphene to do electronics and computer chips,

1063
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:28,279
Speaker 1: but also construction, you know, making things out of this

1064
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: new kind of material.

1065
00:50:29,520 --> 00:50:31,719
Speaker 7: Right, Like you can maybe stack these sheets and make

1066
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:35,960
Speaker 7: super strong body armor basically or anything right a house.

1067
00:50:36,239 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you get really weird properties, Like you can

1068
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,320
Speaker 1: make sheets of graphene, but there are also other kinds

1069
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,239
Speaker 1: of materials you can now make monolayers of and you

1070
00:50:44,320 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: take one sheet of graphene as a sheet of something else,

1071
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:50,000
Speaker 1: and you can make these weird structures they called heterostructures

1072
00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,640
Speaker 1: that now have other really strange properties. And so because

1073
00:50:53,680 --> 00:50:55,839
Speaker 1: these are weird two D materials, you can stack them

1074
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,440
Speaker 1: together to make three D sort of like designer materials,

1075
00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 1: make materials that are totally different from anything we've been

1076
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,160
Speaker 1: able to make before. So it's opened up this whole

1077
00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: new field of like engineering new kinds of materials.

1078
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 7: So you can build a house and then you could

1079
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,279
Speaker 7: let your kids draw on it with a pencil and

1080
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:18,080
Speaker 7: it'd be totally acceptable. You're like, I have nothing for.

1081
00:51:18,040 --> 00:51:21,480
Speaker 1: That, or right, that's a cartoonist dream house, it sounds

1082
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:21,840
Speaker 1: like to me.

1083
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,160
Speaker 7: All right. So then you could also make these two

1084
00:51:24,239 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 7: D materials using quasi particles, which I know we talked

1085
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:30,719
Speaker 7: about before, but maybe we didn't talk about the two

1086
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:31,799
Speaker 7: dimensionality of them.

1087
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:35,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. Quasi particles, remember, are things that are not particles

1088
00:51:35,080 --> 00:51:37,800
Speaker 1: in the way that we think about them, but mathematically

1089
00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:40,799
Speaker 1: they follow the same rules as particles. And so the

1090
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 1: way I think about it is like, well, a particle

1091
00:51:43,239 --> 00:51:46,320
Speaker 1: is a little excited blob of energy in a quantum field.

1092
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: You could also have excited blobs of energy and other

1093
00:51:48,920 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 1: stuff that stays sort of localized and moves around and

1094
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,960
Speaker 1: so sort of follows the same math that we use

1095
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: to consider particles. And the kind of thing you can

1096
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: deposit energy into is like a sheet of plasma. You know.

1097
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:04,279
Speaker 1: Plasma is this fourth state of matter where you heat

1098
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,520
Speaker 1: up stuff hot enough that the electrons go free, and

1099
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: you have this basically gas of charged particles, like what's

1100
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,280
Speaker 1: in the sun is plasma or what's in your fluorescent

1101
00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:17,759
Speaker 1: light tube is plasma. Plasma because it's charged and has

1102
00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: lots of really strong electromagnetic forces, and so sometimes it

1103
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,640
Speaker 1: forms these sheets, you know, it's like separates into sheets,

1104
00:52:23,680 --> 00:52:26,440
Speaker 1: like positive sheet and a negative sheet, and those sheets

1105
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 1: can have excited states. Sometimes like ripples go through those

1106
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:33,520
Speaker 1: sheets and they act like particles. So that's a quasi

1107
00:52:33,600 --> 00:52:35,280
Speaker 1: particle that's called an enion.

1108
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:37,719
Speaker 7: Yeah, And I know what's kind of exciting about these

1109
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,719
Speaker 7: materials is their application in things like quantum computers, right,

1110
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,479
Speaker 7: and encryption and making things that are sort of full

1111
00:52:44,520 --> 00:52:46,960
Speaker 7: proof against quantum decoherence.

1112
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:51,040
Speaker 1: There are certainly applications in quantum computers for some quasi particles.

1113
00:52:51,160 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 1: I think that. For me, the exciting thing about them

1114
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: is that they follow rules of a different universe. They

1115
00:52:57,120 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 1: follow the rules of a two dimensional universe, like mathematical rules.

1116
00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: The things we were talking about very early on the

1117
00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:05,719
Speaker 1: top of the program, like why is our universe three

1118
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: D and not four D and what would it be like?

1119
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:09,920
Speaker 1: We can sort of see what a two D universe

1120
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,239
Speaker 1: really would be like, and we have the math to

1121
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,120
Speaker 1: describe it. But now we actually get to see the

1122
00:53:14,160 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 1: physics of it, and you might wonder, like, well, what

1123
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:18,879
Speaker 1: would a two D universe be like? How could that

1124
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:21,680
Speaker 1: be different? You know, in a two dimensional universe, there's

1125
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,040
Speaker 1: a different relationship, for example, right between energy and velocity,

1126
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 1: Like in our universe, energy is one half MV squared, right,

1127
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,840
Speaker 1: there's a V squared there, But in a two dimensional

1128
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,960
Speaker 1: universe it's not V squared. There's a linear relationship between

1129
00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: energy and velocity. So that's the kind of mathematical difference

1130
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:41,399
Speaker 1: you get, like different kind of physics in these two

1131
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,160
Speaker 1: D universes, and so you can see that happening in

1132
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:48,360
Speaker 1: these examples. And especially weird for enions is that they

1133
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:52,640
Speaker 1: follow different spin statistics, like we have particles in our

1134
00:53:52,760 --> 00:53:57,280
Speaker 1: universe that are either fermions or bosons, and fermions don't

1135
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,520
Speaker 1: like to exist in the same quantum state, whereas bosons

1136
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:03,319
Speaker 1: are happy to hang out in the same quantum state. Well,

1137
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,839
Speaker 1: anions can be somewhere between fermions and bosons. They're not

1138
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 1: like fermions exactly, they're not like bosons exactly. They're like

1139
00:54:11,719 --> 00:54:14,280
Speaker 1: has sort of like fractional in between states.

1140
00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:16,920
Speaker 7: Cool, you'd have to start a whole new field called

1141
00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 7: cartoon physics basically right, Like, it's a whole new different,

1142
00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:22,839
Speaker 7: whole new ballgame, whole new comic book.

1143
00:54:22,920 --> 00:54:24,799
Speaker 1: It's a whole new ballgame and a whole new way

1144
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:27,640
Speaker 1: to like explore the universe and see weird stuff and

1145
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:28,600
Speaker 1: to get surprised.

1146
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:31,719
Speaker 7: Well, it sounds pretty cool. It sounds like two the

1147
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:34,480
Speaker 7: objects are not just as possible and theoretical, but they're

1148
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,200
Speaker 7: also right here in our universe. You can make them,

1149
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 7: you can create them, you can sandwich them, you can

1150
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:43,439
Speaker 7: make pizzas out of them, put atrophies on them. And

1151
00:54:43,480 --> 00:54:46,200
Speaker 7: so that opens things up to a lot of interesting

1152
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,279
Speaker 7: new math and maybe a whole bunch of new materials.

1153
00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 7: And so to have the last word, we'll bring back

1154
00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 7: Professor Rohani to tell us a little bit about the

1155
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:57,000
Speaker 7: future of these new and exciting materials.

1156
00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:57,359
Speaker 8: Oh.

1157
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 10: I think there is a lot of research order in

1158
00:55:00,480 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 10: experiment even as you see I and a lot of

1159
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 10: research in different two dimensional materials. So graphin is not

1160
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 10: the only one. There are materials so called wonderbose materials,

1161
00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 10: and these are layered materials that you can imagine as

1162
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:18,399
Speaker 10: very similar to the graphite of which you can peel

1163
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:22,280
Speaker 10: off the graffine, so you have very weakly connected layers

1164
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:25,200
Speaker 10: and that you can just peel the layers of these materials,

1165
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:28,120
Speaker 10: and what people can do with them is kind of

1166
00:55:28,239 --> 00:55:32,120
Speaker 10: engineer the band structure and therefore together with that engineer

1167
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:36,000
Speaker 10: physical properties of material and create new type of material

1168
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:39,840
Speaker 10: with completely new physical properties, just by putting these layers

1169
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,520
Speaker 10: on top of each other, making a sandwich or something

1170
00:55:44,280 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 10: of them. They're doing experiments using osograffine and hexagona boronitride

1171
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,600
Speaker 10: and other wonderbose materials. And I think the transition metal

1172
00:55:54,800 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 10: like co genites I can pronounce, yes, that you can

1173
00:56:00,120 --> 00:56:02,560
Speaker 10: use to be ad these different kind of so called

1174
00:56:02,560 --> 00:56:06,719
Speaker 10: heterostructures when you just layer you know, these different two

1175
00:56:06,760 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 10: dimensional materials on top of each other and then you know,

1176
00:56:09,719 --> 00:56:14,080
Speaker 10: create new types of materials and you know, examine how

1177
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 10: do I change the physical properties? Can I make a

1178
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 10: superconductor or can I make out of you know, like

1179
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 10: I have graffine, which is insanely good conductor, but if

1180
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,200
Speaker 10: I layer it and maybe become an insulator and so on.

1181
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,960
Speaker 10: So you know, all of the discussions and I think

1182
00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,000
Speaker 10: it's very nice because it's kind of a playground and

1183
00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,759
Speaker 10: you can build so many things with this and not

1184
00:56:36,000 --> 00:56:38,839
Speaker 10: just you know, like kind of try to engineer and

1185
00:56:39,760 --> 00:56:43,200
Speaker 10: make functional materials that you can then use in applications

1186
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 10: for you know, the semiconductor business, which is huge, right,

1187
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,200
Speaker 10: so you can just make you know, faster or more

1188
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 10: efficient chips and stuff like that, but also completely new technologies,

1189
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,279
Speaker 10: and I think a lot of research is already put

1190
00:56:56,360 --> 00:56:58,760
Speaker 10: in the past, I think ten to fifteen years.

1191
00:56:59,160 --> 00:57:01,760
Speaker 1: So you can take bread, slice it and the slices

1192
00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 1: and then rebuild it in different slices to make whatever

1193
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,359
Speaker 1: you like, to make all sorts of new stuff. Yeah,

1194
00:57:08,080 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: synthetic materials.

1195
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:12,160
Speaker 10: Yeah, I think you take a slice of bread which

1196
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:14,360
Speaker 10: is not a bread anymore. It tastes completely different, and

1197
00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 10: then you put some ham on it and it's not

1198
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:18,360
Speaker 10: a stand, which is just something entirely different.

1199
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:18,600
Speaker 5: You know.

1200
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:20,680
Speaker 1: It's so it's insane, all right.

1201
00:57:20,720 --> 00:57:23,560
Speaker 7: That was a deep dive into some two D ideas.

1202
00:57:24,440 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 7: Sounds like the future is bright for these two D objects.

1203
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, and people are just now thinking about even crazier ideas,

1204
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:34,240
Speaker 1: like mathematically, can you have a one D object? Can

1205
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:36,960
Speaker 1: you construct an object that's just a string of atoms

1206
00:57:37,080 --> 00:57:40,120
Speaker 1: that are somehow bound together? What would be the properties

1207
00:57:40,120 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: of that kind of thing? How could you make it?

1208
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,960
Speaker 1: Could you like take graphene and somehow like slice it

1209
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,360
Speaker 1: off using two D scotch tape to make one D strings?

1210
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,560
Speaker 1: Is that the next Nobel Prize? Oh?

1211
00:57:50,600 --> 00:57:52,600
Speaker 7: Man, I feel like you should take it easy and

1212
00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 7: just maybe go one and half the first, you know

1213
00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,680
Speaker 7: what I mean? Like that's crazy.

1214
00:57:57,880 --> 00:58:00,280
Speaker 1: Hey, well my wife says I'm two dimensional, So I

1215
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:00,920
Speaker 1: got a contention.

1216
00:58:01,000 --> 00:58:02,800
Speaker 7: Can of going out the diet exactly?

1217
00:58:02,800 --> 00:58:05,200
Speaker 1: But until then we can have fun thinking about these things,

1218
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:08,200
Speaker 1: wondering what the math is like in a one dimensional universe.

1219
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 1: And maybe one day somebody will build a one D

1220
00:58:10,840 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 1: object and we can actually see how electrons move along

1221
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:15,160
Speaker 1: it in one dimension.

1222
00:58:15,320 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 7: Right, you just have to look at it from the side.

1223
00:58:16,880 --> 00:58:18,520
Speaker 7: You can't look at it head on. All right, Well,

1224
00:58:18,520 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 7: we hope you enjoyed that. Thanks for joining us, See

1225
00:58:21,920 --> 00:58:22,439
Speaker 7: you next time.

1226
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:33,120
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening, and remember that. Daniel and Jorge Explain

1227
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:36,480
Speaker 1: the Universe is a production of iHeart Radio. For more

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