WEBVTT - Lucy Walter's Lover and Child

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Noble Blood, a production of iHeartRadio and Grimm

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<v Speaker 1>and Mild from Aaron Mankie.

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<v Speaker 2>Listener discretion advised.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's begin our story In Paris sixteen fifty eight. A

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<v Speaker 1>woman only twenty eight years old is on her deathbed,

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<v Speaker 1>dying of a venereal disease. An English churchman is with

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<v Speaker 1>her in her remaining few hours, allowing her to make

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<v Speaker 1>a general confession or a Christian prayer of repentance for sins.

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<v Speaker 1>An English churchman would know these prayers well, Almighty and

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<v Speaker 1>most Merciful Father, we have aired and strayed from thy

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<v Speaker 1>ways like lost sheep. We have followed too much the

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<v Speaker 1>devices and desires of our own hearts. That's read by

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<v Speaker 1>an Anglican congregation and mass during worship. But what did

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<v Speaker 1>this woman specifically have to confess? Maybe her cause of

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<v Speaker 1>death can provide you with a clue. But the extent

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<v Speaker 1>of the words that she would utter to the priest

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<v Speaker 1>went far beyond simply the sins of lust. She told

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<v Speaker 1>the churchmen that there existed a black box, and inside

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<v Speaker 1>of it one could find documentary proof that years earlier

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<v Speaker 1>she had married Charles, the second King of England. The

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<v Speaker 1>story I just told you of the deathbed confession of

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<v Speaker 1>the mysterious Black Box. Proof is likely highly dramatized, but

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<v Speaker 1>Lucy Walter, the woman in question, was the very real

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<v Speaker 1>mistress of the King of England, and the story of

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<v Speaker 1>her alleged confession would have a very real impact on

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<v Speaker 1>the country at large. Lucy's confession isn't actually the beginning

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<v Speaker 1>of our story, but it's also not the end. A

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<v Speaker 1>confession of a secret marriage would be enough to cause

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<v Speaker 1>a scandal, but the confession of a marriage while an

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<v Speaker 1>acknowledged illegitimate son lived was enough to send the monarchy

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<v Speaker 1>into turmoil. The churchman from the tale was also very real,

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<v Speaker 1>but John Couson, future Bishop of Durham, would pass in

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<v Speaker 1>sixteen seventy two. Dying with him would be the only

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<v Speaker 1>chance of finding this infamous black box and proving once

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<v Speaker 1>and for all that Lucy's son, James Scott, the Duke

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<v Speaker 1>of Monmouth, was not an illegitimate son, but in fact

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<v Speaker 1>the King's legitimate, rightful heir to the throne. Notably, the

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<v Speaker 1>story of Lucy's death comes from the memoirs of James

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<v Speaker 1>the second, younger brother to Lucy's lover, King Charles the

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<v Speaker 1>Second and it's a memoir in which she by and

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<v Speaker 1>large is portrayed in a rather shameful light. It will

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<v Speaker 1>become clearer as to why that might have been the

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<v Speaker 1>case later, but it's a good reminder that when it

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<v Speaker 1>comes to Lucy's life we could be careful to take

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<v Speaker 1>things with a grain of salt. In a real history

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<v Speaker 1>is written by the victor's moment, we have to ask,

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<v Speaker 1>did Lucy even truly die of a quote disease incident

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<v Speaker 1>to her profession, as James the Second put it, or

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<v Speaker 1>as James was fighting the Duke of Monmouth foreclaim to

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<v Speaker 1>the throne, did he really just want his enemy to

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<v Speaker 1>be known as the son of a whore? The story

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<v Speaker 1>of Lucy Walter and Charles the Second has all the

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<v Speaker 1>makings of a really good scandal. Royalty seduction, bastards, secret marriages,

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<v Speaker 1>a quest for a fabled box, and, since this is

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<v Speaker 1>the English monarchy, an eventual beheading. As with any scandal,

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<v Speaker 1>though no matter how important the participants are, at the

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<v Speaker 1>heart of it is a real messy group of people

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<v Speaker 1>making real messy decisions. I'm Danish Schwartz and this is

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<v Speaker 1>Noble Blood. Now to introduce the players in this scandal

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<v Speaker 1>when there's a king involved, I imagine that ladies first

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't really apply. So let's start with King Charles the

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<v Speaker 1>Second of England. Charles the Second's father, Charles the First

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<v Speaker 1>was an infamously stuffy and unlikable man, so unlikable, in fact,

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<v Speaker 1>that it cost him his head to very very succinctly

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<v Speaker 1>sum up the English Civil War, but his wife, the

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<v Speaker 1>French Princess Henrietta Maria, was practically his opposite. Charles the

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<v Speaker 1>First was twenty four and she was fifteen at the

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<v Speaker 1>time of their vows. He wanted a submissive, traditional queen,

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<v Speaker 1>while Henrietta had no such intentions of being one. She

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<v Speaker 1>had been raised in the comparatively liberal environment of the

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<v Speaker 1>French court. Charles the First was the head of the

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<v Speaker 1>Church of England, and Henrietta Maria was a Roman Catholic

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<v Speaker 1>at a time when religious strife was particularly contentious. The

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<v Speaker 1>couple's biggest similarity at the time of their marriage seemed

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<v Speaker 1>to be that both were fairly onely disliked. Parliament and

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<v Speaker 1>the English public were very wary when the king announced

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<v Speaker 1>that he would be marrying a Roman Catholic woman, and

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<v Speaker 1>due to religious restrictions, she was never even formally crowned

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<v Speaker 1>in a coronation ceremony. In a situation like this of

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<v Speaker 1>two very different parents, odds are that children would take

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<v Speaker 1>more after one parent than the other, and in the

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<v Speaker 1>young Charles's case, he took after his mother. The Bishop

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<v Speaker 1>Burnet once reflected that quote. The Queen Mother, referring to

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<v Speaker 1>Henrietta Maria, observed often that the great defects of the

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<v Speaker 1>late king's breeding and the stiff roughness that was in him,

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<v Speaker 1>by which he disobliged very many and did often prejudice

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<v Speaker 1>his affairs very much. So she gave strict orders that

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<v Speaker 1>the young princes should be bred to wonderful civility end quote.

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<v Speaker 1>Civility may seem a misplaced choice of wording here, but

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<v Speaker 1>in this case it's a reference back to its archaic meaning,

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<v Speaker 1>which was to be learned in the humanities. And so

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<v Speaker 1>the future Charles the second would take after his mother

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<v Speaker 1>very much. By design as his mother's favorite, the young

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<v Speaker 1>Charles spent a lot of time being doted on by

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<v Speaker 1>Henrietta and her courtiers. The excess of Catholicism opposed by

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<v Speaker 1>English Puritans around this time was spiritually embodied by Henrietta

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<v Speaker 1>who turned the palace into a personal menagerie. She kept

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<v Speaker 1>herself surrounded by dwarfs, a sadly common practice among royalty

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<v Speaker 1>at the time, dogs of all shapes and sizes, gestures.

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<v Speaker 2>And monkeys.

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<v Speaker 1>The idea was constant entertainment and spectacle. After all, Henrietta's

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<v Speaker 1>mother was Ria de Medici, and if you know anything

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<v Speaker 1>about that family, you know that extravagance was a prominent

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<v Speaker 1>genotype in their Punnett Square. When young Charles was around,

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<v Speaker 1>the courtiers devised games and jokes for the enjoyment of

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<v Speaker 1>the prince, and in Henrietta's court he received a cultural

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<v Speaker 1>education simply through exposure. But he was also exposed to

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<v Speaker 1>the other side of a hedonistic leaning circle of wealthy followers.

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<v Speaker 2>As phrased by.

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<v Speaker 1>Derek Wilson in his book All the King's Women, quote, flirtations, affairs,

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<v Speaker 1>and gossip about those flirtations and affairs.

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<v Speaker 2>Were part of the daily routine.

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<v Speaker 1>And if adulterous liaisons were not officially approved of, everyone

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<v Speaker 1>knew they happened.

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<v Speaker 3>End quote.

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<v Speaker 1>It likely took the little prince some time to understand

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<v Speaker 1>the full implications of what was going on behind the scenes,

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<v Speaker 1>but adultery and that sort of debauchery was a part

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<v Speaker 1>of his daily life from a young age. The Queen

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<v Speaker 1>and her ladies also took great joy in dressing the

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<v Speaker 1>young Charles and his royal siblings in fanciful costumes and

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<v Speaker 1>staging masks and dances for the young princes to perform in.

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<v Speaker 1>Henrietta was a devoted patroness of the arts, particularly when

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<v Speaker 1>it came to masks and plays, even ones that didn't

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<v Speaker 1>involve her children. Her husband, Charles the First, for his part,

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<v Speaker 1>was a major patron of paintings and visual arts, but

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<v Speaker 1>their approaches were different. They both wanted the court to

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<v Speaker 1>embrace the Beaumont, but Henrietta was determined to do so

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<v Speaker 1>through grand French sensibilities, while her husband was the poster

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<v Speaker 1>child for English rigid formality and dignity. To get an

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<v Speaker 1>idea of the kind of plays Henrietta was hosting, take

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<v Speaker 1>this criticism from lawyer William Prine, a staunch Puritan, in

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<v Speaker 1>a paragraph that sounds like it should follow the phrase

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<v Speaker 1>this club has everything, Prine admonishes the Court for quote

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<v Speaker 1>effeminate mixed dancing, stage plays, lascivious pictures, face painting, health, drinking,

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<v Speaker 1>long hair, love, locks, periwigs, women's curling, powdering and cuffing

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<v Speaker 1>of their hair, bonfires, new Year's gifts, may day's amorous pastimes, lascivious,

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<v Speaker 1>effeminate music, excessive laughter, luxurious, disorderly Christmas keeping mummeries with

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<v Speaker 1>sundry such like vanities end quote. Charles the First was

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<v Speaker 1>so offended by Prin's accusations that he was not the

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<v Speaker 1>moral paragon, that he fancied himself that he had Prin

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<v Speaker 1>sentenced to life imprisonment, find five thousand pounds, deprived of

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<v Speaker 1>his Oxford degree, and for good measure, liberated of both

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<v Speaker 1>his ears. And that was just the initial sentence. But anyway,

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<v Speaker 1>back to the sun, there was a third person responsible

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<v Speaker 1>for rearing and influencing the young Prince. Charles's nurse, Christabella Wyndham.

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<v Speaker 1>She was in her mid twenties when she was appointed,

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<v Speaker 1>and apparently she was quite beautiful, but one of Charles

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<v Speaker 1>the second future courtiers once remarked that there was quote

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<v Speaker 1>nothing of woman in her but her body end quote.

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<v Speaker 1>Due to her apparent ambitiousness nature, she and her husband,

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<v Speaker 1>Sir Edward Wyndham were quickly climbing the social ranks in court,

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<v Speaker 1>and they were trusted by the King, Queen, and most

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<v Speaker 1>of all, the young Prince, she readily provided the prince

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<v Speaker 1>with affection, hugs and kisses that a young royal really

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't get anywhere else. In sixteen forty two, when twelve

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<v Speaker 1>year old Charles was forced to leave his home for

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<v Speaker 1>the first time to join his father fighting in the

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<v Speaker 1>First English Civil War, he was separated from his incredibly

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<v Speaker 1>comfortable home life, which included his mother's court and his

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<v Speaker 1>beloved nurse. Charles's relatively loose education and preferences for an

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<v Speaker 1>easy life hadn't prepared him for the battlefield, but nevertheless,

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<v Speaker 1>in classic Nepo baby tradition, at age fifteen, he was

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<v Speaker 1>given his own command. While teenage Charles wasn't a particularly

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<v Speaker 1>effective general, being in the field did give him a

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<v Speaker 1>chance to reunite with Christabella, his childhood nurse, for a week.

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<v Speaker 1>He was stationed in her hometown of Bridgewater, where she

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<v Speaker 1>herself had become quite the warrior for the Royalist cause.

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<v Speaker 1>She apparently fired a musket at the Parliamentary General and

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<v Speaker 1>then sent her trumpeter to the enemy commander to taunt

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<v Speaker 1>that if he were a real courtier, he would return

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<v Speaker 1>the compliment with another shot at her. Charles was thrilled

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<v Speaker 1>to be reunited with his childhood nurse, but his courtier,

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<v Speaker 1>Edward Hyde, was far less thrilled. It was he who

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<v Speaker 1>had earlier described her as lacking womanhood, believing that she, Cristabella,

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<v Speaker 1>sought to influence and manipulate the young Charles for her

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<v Speaker 1>and her husband's own gain, which you know, probably to

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<v Speaker 1>some degree was true. Hyde now admonished the way that

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<v Speaker 1>she would run across the room to kiss young Charles,

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<v Speaker 1>who happily accepted her affection. Hyde feared that his master

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<v Speaker 1>harbored quote fondness, if not affection end quote for his

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<v Speaker 1>former nurse, which you know you think, sure he probably did.

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<v Speaker 1>But some historians have interpreted this to mean that the

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<v Speaker 1>relationship between them had evolved into something sexual, but there's

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<v Speaker 1>no evidence to corroborate that idea, so the theory is

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<v Speaker 1>more likely just a convenient plot point in young Charles's story.

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<v Speaker 1>Despite that, Christabella was undoubtedly Charles's first crush, and her

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<v Speaker 1>headstrongness would certainly inspire his future taste. Speaking of headstrong women,

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<v Speaker 1>let's finally talk about Lucy Walter. There is a definite

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<v Speaker 1>lack of information on Lucy's early life compared to Charles,

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<v Speaker 1>but after all, she was the daughter of Welsh gentry

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<v Speaker 1>and he was the future King of England. Lucy was

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<v Speaker 1>born in Pembrokeshire, Wales, the same year as Charles, but

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<v Speaker 1>in the later sixteen thirties her parents moved the family

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<v Speaker 1>to London. Attracted to high society, Lucy's parents established their

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<v Speaker 1>new home in Covent Garden, the most expensive quarter of

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<v Speaker 1>the capitol. Their attempt to make a name for themselves

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<v Speaker 1>in the city didn't work out as they had hoped,

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<v Speaker 1>and by the time Lucy was ten, there was so

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<v Speaker 1>much strain on their marriage that the couple divorced. It

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<v Speaker 1>was not an easy or simple separation, and it ended

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<v Speaker 1>up playing out messily in courts, with claims of infidelity

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<v Speaker 1>and unpaid dowries.

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<v Speaker 2>For Lucy.

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<v Speaker 1>This meant she and her siblings would be placed in

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<v Speaker 1>the care of her grandfather and brought up at his

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<v Speaker 1>house near Exeter. We know that she received no formal education,

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<v Speaker 1>but she learned etiquette and.

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<v Speaker 2>That's about it. For her childhood.

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<v Speaker 1>She likely spent time, as many children of divorce do,

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<v Speaker 1>bouncing between her grandparents and her parents' respective homes but

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<v Speaker 1>by her mid teens we know that she ended up

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<v Speaker 1>back in London. We also know that she was charming, spirited,

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<v Speaker 1>and a rare beauty, three qualities that she would come

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<v Speaker 1>to rely on. The English writer John Evelyn once famously

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<v Speaker 1>described her as quote a brown, beautiful, bold, but insipid

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<v Speaker 1>creature end quote. After the two shared a carriage later

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<v Speaker 1>in her life, and it's believed that she at least

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<v Speaker 1>understood her appeal. Lucy was at the age when many

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<v Speaker 1>families would begin thinking.

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<v Speaker 2>Of marriage for their daughters.

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<v Speaker 1>But Lucy's family was not only fractured, but by this

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<v Speaker 1>point out of money. Not only that, but England was

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<v Speaker 1>at this point at war with itself, and most of

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<v Speaker 1>her potential husband candidates were on the battlefield. It's likely

0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:43.239
<v Speaker 1>that during this time, without a husband or father to

0:17:43.320 --> 0:17:49.360
<v Speaker 1>protect her in London, she sought a quote protector. This

0:17:49.640 --> 0:17:55.639
<v Speaker 1>protector arrangement, which was almost always in exchange for sexual services,

0:17:56.280 --> 0:18:00.800
<v Speaker 1>was quite common in seventeenth century London, as it has

0:18:00.920 --> 0:18:06.439
<v Speaker 1>been informs throughout history. The man who would take on

0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:11.800
<v Speaker 1>this protector role for Lucy was Algernon Sidney, Younger, son

0:18:11.920 --> 0:18:15.159
<v Speaker 1>of the Earl of Leicester and bearer of a family

0:18:15.240 --> 0:18:18.200
<v Speaker 1>name that pops up quite a lot on this show.

0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:21.800
<v Speaker 1>He had been injured in battle and was waiting to

0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:26.640
<v Speaker 1>be reinstated when he assumed his parliamentary seat as MP

0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:31.199
<v Speaker 1>of Cardiff. That was the summer of sixteen forty six,

0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:34.920
<v Speaker 1>and at the same time he entered into an agreement

0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:39.880
<v Speaker 1>with Lucy. It said she must have made a considerable impression,

0:18:40.440 --> 0:18:44.800
<v Speaker 1>as he paid fifty pounds for her services. He later

0:18:45.080 --> 0:18:48.760
<v Speaker 1>complained that he never received them because he was called

0:18:48.800 --> 0:18:54.320
<v Speaker 1>back into battle and missed his chance. Shortly after Sidney's departure,

0:18:54.520 --> 0:19:00.000
<v Speaker 1>the conclusion of Lucy's parents's long divorce proceeding was fined,

0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:04.679
<v Speaker 1>finally reached, and Lucy's father was given custody of Lucy

0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:08.600
<v Speaker 1>and her siblings, likely because her mother couldn't afford to

0:19:08.640 --> 0:19:12.520
<v Speaker 1>care for them. It's fairly clear that Lucy didn't care

0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.920
<v Speaker 1>for her father because rather than move in with him,

0:19:16.359 --> 0:19:20.280
<v Speaker 1>she chose to flee the country, changing her last name

0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:25.080
<v Speaker 1>to Barlow borrowed from a maternal relative, she boarded a

0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.879
<v Speaker 1>ship to Holland to stay at her uncle's family home.

0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:32.639
<v Speaker 1>She wouldn't take much with her except a collection of

0:19:32.760 --> 0:19:37.919
<v Speaker 1>letters of recommendation from Algernon Sidney addressed to his younger brother,

0:19:38.480 --> 0:19:42.600
<v Speaker 1>Robert Sidney, who had recently become colonel of the English

0:19:42.640 --> 0:19:48.359
<v Speaker 1>regiment in the Netherlands. The letters apparently worked, as Lucy

0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:54.639
<v Speaker 1>became Robert's mistress by spring sixteen forty seven. Though Robert

0:19:54.640 --> 0:19:58.399
<v Speaker 1>Sidney was married, he was powerful enough that it didn't

0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:03.000
<v Speaker 1>matter if he paraded his a newfound relationship around, and

0:20:03.240 --> 0:20:07.880
<v Speaker 1>Lucy likely gained inadvertent access to the heart of culture

0:20:08.040 --> 0:20:09.960
<v Speaker 1>happening in the Hague.

0:20:09.520 --> 0:20:11.120
<v Speaker 2>On Robert's arm.

0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.760
<v Speaker 1>Robert Sidney was, however, not the most important affair that

0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:17.720
<v Speaker 1>Lucy would.

0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:27.719
<v Speaker 3>Have in Holland.

0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:38.080
<v Speaker 1>Like Lucy, young Charles also arrived at the Hague seeking refuge.

0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.679
<v Speaker 1>The First English Civil War ended in sixteen forty six,

0:20:43.200 --> 0:20:48.040
<v Speaker 1>with Charles the first surrendering and the prince going into exile,

0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:51.800
<v Speaker 1>spending much of it in France with his mother. His

0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:56.320
<v Speaker 1>younger brother James, however, was imprisoned in the Palace alongside

0:20:56.440 --> 0:21:02.280
<v Speaker 1>their other siblings. By sixteen forty eight, conflict was already renewed,

0:21:02.720 --> 0:21:07.119
<v Speaker 1>marking the beginning of the Second English Civil War. James

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:10.600
<v Speaker 1>managed to escape the palace disguised as a girl and

0:21:10.720 --> 0:21:13.600
<v Speaker 1>safely arrived in the Hague. To live with his sister

0:21:13.760 --> 0:21:17.760
<v Speaker 1>Mary and her husband, William, the second Prince of Orange.

0:21:18.280 --> 0:21:20.960
<v Speaker 1>This feels like one of those spoiler alerts that later

0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:24.960
<v Speaker 1>in history, probably later in a Noble Blood episode, that

0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:30.280
<v Speaker 1>couple comes back. Young Charles, the prince in exile, had

0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:34.560
<v Speaker 1>exhausted his options for aid in France, and so he too,

0:21:34.640 --> 0:21:38.600
<v Speaker 1>traveled to meet his brother and pitch the Royalist cause

0:21:38.680 --> 0:21:44.000
<v Speaker 1>to Mary and William. Lucy and Charles met almost immediately

0:21:44.240 --> 0:21:48.040
<v Speaker 1>upon his arrival in Holland in May sixteen forty eight.

0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:52.280
<v Speaker 1>We don't have details about their first meeting, or about

0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:56.240
<v Speaker 1>how their affair began, or as to how Lucy broke

0:21:56.320 --> 0:22:00.280
<v Speaker 1>off her arrangement with Sidney, but we know that Charles

0:22:00.359 --> 0:22:05.280
<v Speaker 1>was infatuated from the moment they met. Madame d'lnoy, the

0:22:05.320 --> 0:22:09.200
<v Speaker 1>baroness and French author who actually coined the term fairy

0:22:09.320 --> 0:22:13.240
<v Speaker 1>tale for her collection of stories, once wrote that upon

0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:17.480
<v Speaker 1>seeing Lucy's beauty for their first meeting, the prince was

0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:22.359
<v Speaker 1>quote so charmed and ravished and enamored that, in the

0:22:22.480 --> 0:22:26.240
<v Speaker 1>misfortunes which ran through the first years of his reign,

0:22:26.760 --> 0:22:30.680
<v Speaker 1>he knew no other sweetness or joy than to love

0:22:30.720 --> 0:22:35.320
<v Speaker 1>her and be loved by her end quote. The couple

0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:41.320
<v Speaker 1>were both eighteen, and Lucy was almost certainly Charles's first,

0:22:41.960 --> 0:22:48.360
<v Speaker 1>possibly only love, despite his already gained reputation as something

0:22:48.440 --> 0:22:52.800
<v Speaker 1>of a cad. Lucy was the first woman Charles began

0:22:52.880 --> 0:22:58.920
<v Speaker 1>a relationship with, which explains the buzzy, impassioned language many

0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:03.560
<v Speaker 1>historians youth to describe their affair. On Lucy's part, we

0:23:03.640 --> 0:23:08.320
<v Speaker 1>don't have any real insight into how reciprocal her feelings

0:23:08.320 --> 0:23:12.880
<v Speaker 1>truly were, at least on first glance. It's equally likely

0:23:13.040 --> 0:23:16.360
<v Speaker 1>that Charles was the great love of her life as

0:23:16.400 --> 0:23:19.960
<v Speaker 1>it is that she was just seeking out more powerful

0:23:20.400 --> 0:23:26.720
<v Speaker 1>quote protection, and positive and negative interpretations of her motives

0:23:27.200 --> 0:23:32.120
<v Speaker 1>have ebbed and flowed with history and shifts in historical

0:23:32.160 --> 0:23:36.520
<v Speaker 1>schools of thought. What we know for sure, though, is

0:23:36.560 --> 0:23:41.320
<v Speaker 1>that by July Lucy was pregnant, the same month in

0:23:41.400 --> 0:23:45.320
<v Speaker 1>which the Prince Charles would return to his position of

0:23:45.359 --> 0:23:49.280
<v Speaker 1>command and depart with his fleet back to the seas.

0:23:50.000 --> 0:23:54.119
<v Speaker 1>In December, tensions escalated back in England, but the Prince,

0:23:54.480 --> 0:23:57.920
<v Speaker 1>still in exile, returned to the Hague for the holidays.

0:23:58.600 --> 0:24:02.200
<v Speaker 1>At this point in English history, Christmas had been all

0:24:02.200 --> 0:24:07.600
<v Speaker 1>but banned by the Puritan Parliament, associating its festivities too

0:24:07.680 --> 0:24:14.480
<v Speaker 1>closely with indulgent Catholicism and arguing that Christmas encouraged drunkenness

0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:19.399
<v Speaker 1>and debauchery. In Holland, however, the festive season was in

0:24:19.600 --> 0:24:23.639
<v Speaker 1>full swing, and it can be assumed that pregnant Lucy

0:24:24.240 --> 0:24:35.640
<v Speaker 1>joined Charles at court for celebration. Their happy period quickly

0:24:35.760 --> 0:24:39.320
<v Speaker 1>came to an end, though by the time their son

0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:44.000
<v Speaker 1>James was born in Rotterdam on April ninth, Charles had

0:24:44.000 --> 0:24:48.160
<v Speaker 1>been gone from the Netherlands two months earlier. He had

0:24:48.280 --> 0:24:52.720
<v Speaker 1>learned of his father's execution, and he immediately set off

0:24:52.760 --> 0:24:56.840
<v Speaker 1>for Jersey, the only one of his father's dominions in

0:24:56.880 --> 0:25:01.199
<v Speaker 1>which he was now declared king. His agree that the

0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:05.680
<v Speaker 1>death of his father marked a near immediate shift in Charles.

0:25:06.400 --> 0:25:09.920
<v Speaker 1>The prince, who had once been described as soft hearted,

0:25:10.560 --> 0:25:14.560
<v Speaker 1>had hardened, and will see the consequences of this shift

0:25:14.920 --> 0:25:18.960
<v Speaker 1>as our story goes on. Baby James was left in

0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:22.639
<v Speaker 1>the care of a wet nurse in Rotterdam, while Lucy

0:25:22.840 --> 0:25:28.199
<v Speaker 1>returned to Charles's side months later in either Jersey or

0:25:28.359 --> 0:25:33.480
<v Speaker 1>his next destination, Paris, where Charles would reunite with his mother,

0:25:33.640 --> 0:25:38.840
<v Speaker 1>Henrietta Marie in court. It seems the Queen mother was

0:25:38.960 --> 0:25:43.880
<v Speaker 1>not too fond of the mother of her beloved son's child.

0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:48.960
<v Speaker 1>From Hyde, the man who once admonished the way Christavella

0:25:49.119 --> 0:25:52.840
<v Speaker 1>showed affection to Charles, we get an account of the

0:25:52.960 --> 0:25:58.520
<v Speaker 1>young lady Lucy, who had quote procured a lodging there

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:03.720
<v Speaker 1>without her majesty consent, and with whom her Majesty was

0:26:04.040 --> 0:26:08.840
<v Speaker 1>justly offended for the little respect she showed toward her

0:26:08.920 --> 0:26:14.679
<v Speaker 1>majesty end quote. Hyde prevailed upon Charles to have this

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:20.639
<v Speaker 1>woman removed from court, and the King ultimately complied. We

0:26:20.680 --> 0:26:24.200
<v Speaker 1>don't know actually for sure that this woman was Lucy,

0:26:24.720 --> 0:26:29.600
<v Speaker 1>but the timeline matches up, and more specifically regarding Lucy,

0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:35.280
<v Speaker 1>Hyde later comment that Lucy resided for quote some years

0:26:35.320 --> 0:26:39.320
<v Speaker 1>in France in the King's sight, and at last lost

0:26:39.440 --> 0:26:43.760
<v Speaker 1>his Majesty's favor end quote. And so it's believed that

0:26:43.880 --> 0:26:47.960
<v Speaker 1>the couple traveled together for periods through the sixteen fifties

0:26:48.400 --> 0:26:52.280
<v Speaker 1>as Charles made his way to Belgium and the Netherlands

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:57.840
<v Speaker 1>for negotiations with the Scottish. But the affair between Charles

0:26:57.880 --> 0:27:02.480
<v Speaker 1>and Lucy was ultimately destined to end in the place

0:27:02.560 --> 0:27:08.040
<v Speaker 1>where it began. The details we have of the couple's

0:27:08.560 --> 0:27:13.080
<v Speaker 1>post relationship interactions and of Lucy's later life at large

0:27:13.480 --> 0:27:17.719
<v Speaker 1>are very limited. There's a letter from May sixteen fifty

0:27:17.720 --> 0:27:22.160
<v Speaker 1>five from Charles to Viscount Taife, an Irish Royalist officer

0:27:22.440 --> 0:27:26.960
<v Speaker 1>who accompanied Charles into exile, that reads quote, as soon

0:27:27.000 --> 0:27:29.679
<v Speaker 1>as I have any money, I will not fail to

0:27:29.760 --> 0:27:33.480
<v Speaker 1>send some to missus Barlow. But in the meantime advise her,

0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>both for her sake and mine, that she goes to

0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:40.520
<v Speaker 1>some place more private than the Hague for her stay

0:27:40.560 --> 0:27:45.080
<v Speaker 1>there is very prejudicial to us both end quote. It's

0:27:45.119 --> 0:27:48.760
<v Speaker 1>widely believed that Taife is actually the father of Lucy's

0:27:48.800 --> 0:27:53.920
<v Speaker 1>second child, a daughter named Mary, likely born in sixteen

0:27:54.080 --> 0:27:54.760
<v Speaker 1>fifty one.

0:27:55.560 --> 0:27:56.400
<v Speaker 3>When it came.

0:27:56.200 --> 0:28:01.720
<v Speaker 1>To Charles's request, Lucy evidently ignored his warnings she was

0:28:01.760 --> 0:28:05.840
<v Speaker 1>still in the Hague six months later. This prompted Charles

0:28:05.880 --> 0:28:10.040
<v Speaker 1>to issue an allowance to her of five thousand livres

0:28:10.080 --> 0:28:14.199
<v Speaker 1>per month, which he promised to raise once he was

0:28:14.280 --> 0:28:18.399
<v Speaker 1>formally king. Realizing that he could actually control where she

0:28:18.560 --> 0:28:21.800
<v Speaker 1>chose to live, the allowance was directed to be given

0:28:21.920 --> 0:28:26.320
<v Speaker 1>at Antwerp quote, or some other place as she shall desire.

0:28:27.560 --> 0:28:31.840
<v Speaker 1>Charles wanted Lucy out of the Hague to avoid scandal

0:28:32.000 --> 0:28:36.560
<v Speaker 1>in the Court of Orange, but scandal Lucy did find.

0:28:37.320 --> 0:28:42.360
<v Speaker 1>An account from court reads that Lucy quote was living

0:28:42.440 --> 0:28:47.480
<v Speaker 1>a life so disorderly that the princess's own servant proposed

0:28:47.640 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 1>to banish.

0:28:48.280 --> 0:28:51.080
<v Speaker 2>Her from the place end quote.

0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:56.719
<v Speaker 1>In this case, a disorderly life consisted of having an

0:28:56.760 --> 0:29:01.120
<v Speaker 1>affair with a married man, allegedly at tempting to murder

0:29:01.200 --> 0:29:05.280
<v Speaker 1>a maid who threatened to reveal the affair, and being

0:29:05.360 --> 0:29:10.560
<v Speaker 1>accused by the same maid of having two abortions. Now,

0:29:10.680 --> 0:29:14.960
<v Speaker 1>the legitimacy of any of these claims has not been verified,

0:29:15.360 --> 0:29:18.760
<v Speaker 1>but for Charles's ye old pr team at the time,

0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:23.800
<v Speaker 1>any press was not a good press. Thus Lucy was

0:29:23.840 --> 0:29:28.480
<v Speaker 1>apparently persuaded to return to England, where she was imprisoned,

0:29:28.560 --> 0:29:31.520
<v Speaker 1>along with the married man with whom she had had

0:29:31.560 --> 0:29:37.000
<v Speaker 1>an affair, her maid, and her brother. Historians have widely

0:29:37.160 --> 0:29:41.240
<v Speaker 1>theorized about why she was arrested and why she returned

0:29:41.240 --> 0:29:44.880
<v Speaker 1>to England in the first place. The most exciting theory

0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:47.640
<v Speaker 1>is that she was working for the king as a

0:29:47.760 --> 0:29:53.600
<v Speaker 1>Royalist spy. In reality, Lucy claimed that she had returned

0:29:53.720 --> 0:29:58.440
<v Speaker 1>to claim the inheritance of fifteen hundred pounds left for

0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:02.760
<v Speaker 1>her by her mother, who had recently died. The timing

0:30:02.920 --> 0:30:07.360
<v Speaker 1>makes this plausible, but her testimony is riddled with lies,

0:30:07.920 --> 0:30:10.200
<v Speaker 1>including the fact that she was the widow of a

0:30:10.280 --> 0:30:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Dutchman who was the father of both of her children.

0:30:14.000 --> 0:30:17.239
<v Speaker 1>She had been the king's mistress, she explained, but they

0:30:17.280 --> 0:30:20.520
<v Speaker 1>had not seen each other for two years and their

0:30:20.600 --> 0:30:25.320
<v Speaker 1>child had died. The parliamentary regime would not have treated

0:30:25.360 --> 0:30:29.360
<v Speaker 1>her favorably as an active mistress of the king, so

0:30:29.440 --> 0:30:34.200
<v Speaker 1>to frame herself instead as a sympathetic widow was likely

0:30:34.320 --> 0:30:40.000
<v Speaker 1>a strategic move. Her maid, however, snitched on every detail

0:30:40.120 --> 0:30:44.120
<v Speaker 1>of the affair, which the parliamentary regime at the time.

0:30:44.480 --> 0:30:45.840
<v Speaker 2>Was more ready to believe.

0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:57.760
<v Speaker 1>Lucy's arrest covered in the pro Republican newspaper Mercius Politicus,

0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:03.960
<v Speaker 1>referred to Lucy as Charles's wife or mistress, and reported

0:31:04.040 --> 0:31:09.160
<v Speaker 1>that order is taken forthwith to dispatch the King's quote,

0:31:09.440 --> 0:31:12.800
<v Speaker 1>lady of pleasure and the young heir and set them

0:31:12.840 --> 0:31:17.880
<v Speaker 1>on shore in Flanders, which is no ordinary courtesy end quote.

0:31:18.760 --> 0:31:23.080
<v Speaker 1>Learning about Charles having a lady of pleasure was a

0:31:23.120 --> 0:31:28.040
<v Speaker 1>great boon for Puritans who supported the parliamentary cause, because

0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:33.760
<v Speaker 1>that knowledge reinforced the perception that royals were impure and superficial.

0:31:34.680 --> 0:31:39.680
<v Speaker 1>It's not clear when exactly James had returned to Lucy's care,

0:31:40.200 --> 0:31:43.560
<v Speaker 1>but we know that they were together in Brussels in

0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:48.480
<v Speaker 1>sixteen fifty eight, when an attempt was made by Charles's

0:31:48.480 --> 0:31:53.280
<v Speaker 1>regime to physically remove his son from his mother's presence.

0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:58.680
<v Speaker 1>Colonel Arthur Slingsby attempted to detain Lucy in a city

0:31:58.760 --> 0:32:03.360
<v Speaker 1>prison while he abducted her son, but this apparently failed

0:32:03.400 --> 0:32:10.640
<v Speaker 1>spectacularly and publicly. Lucy resisted loudly as he attempted to

0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:14.400
<v Speaker 1>drag her away, which drew a crowd of spectators who

0:32:14.440 --> 0:32:18.920
<v Speaker 1>were allegedly scandalized at the violence of the colonel, and

0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:21.800
<v Speaker 1>they were moved by the actions of a mother trying

0:32:21.840 --> 0:32:26.520
<v Speaker 1>to protect her son. This turned into a diplomatic incident.

0:32:27.160 --> 0:32:31.440
<v Speaker 1>The Spanish ambassador, governor of the Spanish Netherlands, and the

0:32:31.480 --> 0:32:36.400
<v Speaker 1>local town council all got involved to protect Lucy, believing

0:32:36.440 --> 0:32:40.400
<v Speaker 1>that the colonel was not acting on Charles's authority. The

0:32:40.440 --> 0:32:43.760
<v Speaker 1>colonel actually was, but he had been ordered to carry

0:32:43.760 --> 0:32:47.480
<v Speaker 1>out his task quietly, which gave room for the king

0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:52.840
<v Speaker 1>to now pin the blame on him. Still, Charles wanted

0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:56.680
<v Speaker 1>his son in custody, which prompted one of Charles's chief

0:32:56.720 --> 0:33:00.920
<v Speaker 1>advisers to explain to the Spanish ambassador that it was

0:33:00.960 --> 0:33:04.640
<v Speaker 1>in the father and the mother's best interests to have

0:33:04.720 --> 0:33:09.280
<v Speaker 1>baby James collected. Quote, it will be a great charity

0:33:09.320 --> 0:33:13.400
<v Speaker 1>to the child, the adviser wrote, as in the conclusion

0:33:13.600 --> 0:33:17.320
<v Speaker 1>to the mother, if she shall now at length retire

0:33:17.360 --> 0:33:21.280
<v Speaker 1>herself into such a way of living as may redeem

0:33:21.640 --> 0:33:25.560
<v Speaker 1>in some measure the reproach her past ways have brought

0:33:25.680 --> 0:33:29.800
<v Speaker 1>upon her. Basically, if she didn't have the burden of

0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:33.360
<v Speaker 1>an illegitimate baby hanging over her head, she could start

0:33:33.480 --> 0:33:38.320
<v Speaker 1>living as an honest woman. If Lucy was to continue

0:33:38.360 --> 0:33:42.800
<v Speaker 1>to live in, as the ambassador put it, mad disobedience

0:33:42.840 --> 0:33:46.600
<v Speaker 1>to his pleasure, the King would be forced to disown

0:33:46.800 --> 0:33:51.600
<v Speaker 1>both Lucy and their son. Lucy, learning of the King's

0:33:51.640 --> 0:33:55.000
<v Speaker 1>plans to have baby James placed in the care of

0:33:55.040 --> 0:33:59.680
<v Speaker 1>a chosen guardian, countered with her own plan that she

0:34:00.080 --> 0:34:02.640
<v Speaker 1>would be allowed to live in the home of the

0:34:02.800 --> 0:34:05.680
<v Speaker 1>chosen guardian, and she would have a say in the

0:34:05.760 --> 0:34:10.040
<v Speaker 1>choice of said guardian. If King Charles didn't agree to

0:34:10.120 --> 0:34:14.000
<v Speaker 1>these terms, she threatened she would publish a collection of

0:34:14.080 --> 0:34:18.120
<v Speaker 1>his letters that she had in her possession. For a

0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:22.480
<v Speaker 1>short period of time, it seemed that Charles would comply

0:34:22.680 --> 0:34:26.640
<v Speaker 1>with these terms, but by the spring of sixteen fifty eight,

0:34:27.160 --> 0:34:31.319
<v Speaker 1>a second mission to remove James from Lucy's care was

0:34:31.360 --> 0:34:35.920
<v Speaker 1>successfully completed, and the now nine year old bastard prince

0:34:36.480 --> 0:34:41.360
<v Speaker 1>was placed in Paris. Charles's agent warned that James was

0:34:41.760 --> 0:34:46.200
<v Speaker 1>not yet safe quote from his mother's intrigues, but they

0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:50.360
<v Speaker 1>justified the abduction by noting that he observed that Lucy

0:34:50.800 --> 0:34:55.520
<v Speaker 1>had not been properly educating her son. The letters that

0:34:55.640 --> 0:34:59.160
<v Speaker 1>Lucy had blackmailed the king with were also dealt with

0:35:00.120 --> 0:35:05.239
<v Speaker 1>the same Spanish authorities who had once protected Lucy now

0:35:05.360 --> 0:35:10.120
<v Speaker 1>complied with Charles's orders to search and seize any papers

0:35:10.120 --> 0:35:15.839
<v Speaker 1>that they found. The tragic and ironic aftermath of James's

0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:20.120
<v Speaker 1>forced removal from his mother's care is that she would

0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:24.239
<v Speaker 1>die that same year. The next account that we have

0:35:24.320 --> 0:35:28.040
<v Speaker 1>of Lucy catches us up to where our story began,

0:35:28.760 --> 0:35:33.600
<v Speaker 1>with her deathbed confession to John Coussen. The assertion that

0:35:33.680 --> 0:35:38.680
<v Speaker 1>she had actually married Charles legally, and that proof was out.

0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:42.719
<v Speaker 1>There would be a quiet whisper for years before it

0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:56.160
<v Speaker 1>escalated into a roar. England restored the monarchy and invited

0:35:56.280 --> 0:36:00.759
<v Speaker 1>Charles the Second to claim his throne in sixteen sixty two,

0:36:00.840 --> 0:36:05.560
<v Speaker 1>years after Lucy died. When their son James was nearly fourteen,

0:36:06.080 --> 0:36:09.400
<v Speaker 1>he was brought to England to live in the restored

0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Stuart Court, where Charles took an instant liking to him.

0:36:14.880 --> 0:36:18.880
<v Speaker 1>James was legitimized as the Duke of Monmouth. He became

0:36:19.000 --> 0:36:24.600
<v Speaker 1>popular among the people for his Protestantism, especially since Charles's

0:36:24.680 --> 0:36:30.719
<v Speaker 1>younger brother James had openly converted to Catholicism. The exclusion

0:36:30.800 --> 0:36:35.040
<v Speaker 1>crisis and the Popish plot would need dedicated episodes to

0:36:35.080 --> 0:36:38.879
<v Speaker 1>be completely explained, and I think they probably eventually will

0:36:38.960 --> 0:36:43.880
<v Speaker 1>get them. But know that in sixteen seventy nine, Charles

0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:47.200
<v Speaker 1>the Second would have to make no fewer than three

0:36:47.320 --> 0:36:50.799
<v Speaker 1>public claims that he had only been married once, and

0:36:50.840 --> 0:36:53.239
<v Speaker 1>it was in sixteen sixty two, and it was to

0:36:53.280 --> 0:36:57.279
<v Speaker 1>his Queen Catherine. This was because his wife had given

0:36:57.360 --> 0:37:00.040
<v Speaker 1>him no legitimate heirs, and there was a grit g

0:37:00.080 --> 0:37:04.320
<v Speaker 1>owing faction in England who wanted to name Protestant James

0:37:04.640 --> 0:37:08.319
<v Speaker 1>the illegitimate son with Lucy as the successor to the

0:37:08.360 --> 0:37:10.960
<v Speaker 1>throne instead of Catholic.

0:37:10.560 --> 0:37:11.640
<v Speaker 3>James, who was King.

0:37:11.719 --> 0:37:15.879
<v Speaker 1>Charles the second brother and this faction were encouraged by

0:37:15.920 --> 0:37:21.520
<v Speaker 1>the rumor that James of Monmouth, Protestant illegitimate son was

0:37:21.800 --> 0:37:27.799
<v Speaker 1>secretly a legitimate heir. Charles's denial did not have the

0:37:27.880 --> 0:37:31.760
<v Speaker 1>effectiveness that he had hoped for, because after his passing,

0:37:32.400 --> 0:37:37.520
<v Speaker 1>Lucy's mythologized confession that the two had been legally married

0:37:38.000 --> 0:37:41.840
<v Speaker 1>would fan the flames of the Monmouth Rebellion, an epic

0:37:42.000 --> 0:37:47.080
<v Speaker 1>battle of James versus James that would ultimately cost Lucy's

0:37:47.239 --> 0:37:53.760
<v Speaker 1>son his head. Neither the contents of the mysterious black

0:37:53.880 --> 0:37:59.359
<v Speaker 1>box she confessed, nor the box itself wherever found, but they,

0:37:59.560 --> 0:38:04.400
<v Speaker 1>and by extension, Lucy, had a profound impact on a

0:38:04.520 --> 0:38:09.319
<v Speaker 1>pivotal moment in English history. Charles the Second would go

0:38:09.400 --> 0:38:14.239
<v Speaker 1>on to have eleven more illegitimate children from mistresses, but

0:38:14.440 --> 0:38:18.440
<v Speaker 1>historians conclude that his affair with Lucy in the days

0:38:18.520 --> 0:38:21.799
<v Speaker 1>before he had the weight of the crown on his shoulders,

0:38:22.600 --> 0:38:34.600
<v Speaker 1>was the only true love he knew. That's the story

0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:40.160
<v Speaker 1>of Lucy Walter and her illegitimate possibly legitimate son James.

0:38:40.560 --> 0:38:44.239
<v Speaker 1>But keep listening after a brief sponsor break to hear

0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:56.520
<v Speaker 1>a little bit more about that mysterious box. The truth

0:38:56.640 --> 0:39:00.560
<v Speaker 1>of the Black Box still evades us, but recently discovered

0:39:00.600 --> 0:39:05.160
<v Speaker 1>documentation may shed some new light unto the truth.

0:39:04.960 --> 0:39:05.960
<v Speaker 2>Of its existence.

0:39:06.800 --> 0:39:12.720
<v Speaker 1>Historians have found a deposition dated April nineteenth, sixteen forty

0:39:12.840 --> 0:39:17.319
<v Speaker 1>nine by a sixteen year old named Edward Fenn, who

0:39:17.440 --> 0:39:21.840
<v Speaker 1>spoke on behalf of the honorable Miss Lucy Barlow, also

0:39:22.040 --> 0:39:26.239
<v Speaker 1>now staying here in the Hague. Fenn testified that he

0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:31.360
<v Speaker 1>had accompanied his master, a naval Captain Robert Killigrew, on

0:39:31.440 --> 0:39:36.040
<v Speaker 1>a trip with Lucy from the Hague to Rotterdam. The

0:39:36.160 --> 0:39:40.359
<v Speaker 1>contents of the testimony detail that Lucy had with her

0:39:40.400 --> 0:39:45.279
<v Speaker 1>in her possession a small cabinet or box, which, by

0:39:45.360 --> 0:39:49.800
<v Speaker 1>Killigrew's orders, Fenn was in charge of keeping safe in

0:39:49.880 --> 0:39:54.560
<v Speaker 1>the inns where they stayed. Fen was consistently urged by

0:39:54.600 --> 0:39:57.840
<v Speaker 1>his captain to get his hands on the contents of

0:39:57.880 --> 0:40:02.000
<v Speaker 1>the box, with him, going so as to purchase lead

0:40:02.520 --> 0:40:07.799
<v Speaker 1>to replace the box's minted silver, even ordering Fenn to

0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:11.080
<v Speaker 1>drop the box in the water and remember the spot

0:40:11.120 --> 0:40:15.480
<v Speaker 1>where he did so. Fenn reasonably confident that he would

0:40:15.480 --> 0:40:18.479
<v Speaker 1>in fact not be able to retrieve the box after

0:40:18.600 --> 0:40:23.400
<v Speaker 1>dropping it in the water. Refused, Killigrew then took matters

0:40:23.400 --> 0:40:27.160
<v Speaker 1>into his own hands, and Fenn spied him with the

0:40:27.200 --> 0:40:32.520
<v Speaker 1>box under his cloak, taking out quote the papers and

0:40:32.760 --> 0:40:38.840
<v Speaker 1>counting the coins of minted gold. Fenn's deposition concludes with

0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:42.439
<v Speaker 1>him explaining that he didn't know if the captain ever

0:40:42.520 --> 0:40:46.120
<v Speaker 1>put the money back, but that the box was now

0:40:46.360 --> 0:40:50.760
<v Speaker 1>once again in the hands of its rightful owner, Lucy Barlow.

0:40:51.920 --> 0:40:55.319
<v Speaker 1>Based on the captain's earlier orders to Fenn, we can

0:40:55.400 --> 0:40:58.960
<v Speaker 1>assume that Killigrew was really only after the money that

0:40:59.080 --> 0:41:02.560
<v Speaker 1>Lucy had stored in box. But what about the papers.

0:41:03.160 --> 0:41:06.719
<v Speaker 1>It's unclear as to why this testimony was being recorded

0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:09.400
<v Speaker 1>in the first place, and all we know is that

0:41:09.480 --> 0:41:13.440
<v Speaker 1>it was requested by Lucy only a few days after

0:41:13.520 --> 0:41:18.120
<v Speaker 1>her son's birth. Was she seeking to document proof that

0:41:18.239 --> 0:41:21.560
<v Speaker 1>Kilgrew had tried to steal from her despite no further

0:41:21.680 --> 0:41:26.719
<v Speaker 1>record of legal action it's plausible, or was she instead

0:41:26.880 --> 0:41:31.759
<v Speaker 1>documenting proof that this cabinet was in her possession? In

0:41:31.800 --> 0:41:36.560
<v Speaker 1>a search for answers, we are unfortunately left with only

0:41:36.600 --> 0:41:41.640
<v Speaker 1>more questions. But maybe the fabled box really was nothing

0:41:41.680 --> 0:41:55.080
<v Speaker 1>more than a fairy Tale. Noble Blood is a production

0:41:55.440 --> 0:42:00.319
<v Speaker 1>of iHeartRadio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Mankie. Noble

0:42:00.360 --> 0:42:04.239
<v Speaker 1>Blood is created and hosted by me Dana Schwartz, with

0:42:04.400 --> 0:42:10.200
<v Speaker 1>additional writing and researching by Hannah Johnston, Hanna Zwick, Mira Hayward,

0:42:10.400 --> 0:42:14.520
<v Speaker 1>Courtney Sender, and Lori Goodman. The show is edited and

0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:19.759
<v Speaker 1>produced by Noemi Griffin and rima il Kaali, with supervising

0:42:19.840 --> 0:42:25.440
<v Speaker 1>producer Josh Fain and executive producers Aaron Manke, Alex Williams,

0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:30.319
<v Speaker 1>and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the

0:42:30.400 --> 0:42:34.680
<v Speaker 1>iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your

0:42:34.719 --> 0:42:35.360
<v Speaker 1>favorite show.