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Speaker 1: Welcome to had to Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt,

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Speaker 1: and today we're talking presidential money lessons with Megan Gorman.

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Speaker 2: All right, so we're finally gonna do it. Joel, We're

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Speaker 2: gonna tell everyone out there who they should vote for

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Speaker 2: who Just kidding. We're actually not even going to get

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Speaker 2: into like the recent presidential tax returns. I guess that

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Speaker 2: wasn't that reason, but or whether candidates whether they own

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Speaker 2: any stocks, or whether they own real estate. Actually, we're

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Speaker 2: gonna completely avoid the mudslinging landscape that we find ourselves

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Speaker 2: in today, and instead we're gonna focus on personal finance,

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Speaker 2: which is what we do best. And fortunately for us,

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Speaker 2: we're joined by author Meghan Gorman. Meghan is a history buff.

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Speaker 2: She began her career at Goldman Sachs. She founded her

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Speaker 2: own specializing in tax and financial planning for high and

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Speaker 2: ultra high net worth individuals. She's a regular contributor over

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Speaker 2: at Forbes and her new book, All the President's Money,

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Speaker 2: it looks at the men who have governed America and

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Speaker 2: specifically how they govern their own money, their own personal finances.

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Speaker 2: And so we're excited to look at the different financial

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Speaker 2: lessons that we can all learn from them. Megan, thank

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Speaker 2: you so much for joining us today.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, thanks for having me on, Matt and Joel.

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Speaker 3: I've been looking forward to this.

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Speaker 1: We have too, And seriously, I started digging into your

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Speaker 1: book and I couldn't put it down because there's something

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Speaker 1: about the overlap of history, our country's history, and then

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Speaker 1: money that to me, I'm insatiable because this book.

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Speaker 2: Is perfect and it humanizes these characters that are oftentimes

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Speaker 2: only seen as characters, right, Like, I'm sure the next

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Speaker 2: thing you want to look into, Joel, is like whether

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Speaker 2: or not, like what was the exercise routine of these presidents?

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Speaker 2: Did they ever go running? Like I do?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 1: Teddy Roosevelt at least was a pretty buff fella. But Megan,

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Speaker 1: first question we have to ask everyone who come on

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Speaker 1: the show is what do you like to splur? John,

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Speaker 1: Matt and I we call it the craft beer equivalent

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Speaker 1: because we spend a good bit of money on good

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Speaker 1: craft beer. But hey, we're saving investing the same time,

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Speaker 1: so it's all good. What's that spending line item in

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Speaker 1: your budget?

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Speaker 4: Okay?

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Speaker 3: So I had a feeling you were going to ask

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Speaker 3: me this question, and so I'm guessally going to tell

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Speaker 3: you the truth, even though it's sort of embarrassing.

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Speaker 4: So I'm a tourist.

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Speaker 3: I'm born in April and Taurus is We're the lovers

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Speaker 3: of luxury, builders of wealth, and if you ever come

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Speaker 3: to a Taurus's house, they're typically beautiful. We love houses

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Speaker 3: and decorating and decorating houses is sort of my passion.

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Speaker 3: So I would tell you the thing I like to

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Speaker 3: splurge on is vintage lighting.

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Speaker 4: And I know I sound crazy.

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Speaker 3: I know you usually get like different answers, but I

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Speaker 3: love going on sites like First Dibbs and estate sales

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Speaker 3: and looking for really stunning lighting pieces.

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Speaker 4: So that's my splurge.

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Speaker 3: And I'm very blessed to have a very patient husband,

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Speaker 3: not just because the fact that I like splurging on that,

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Speaker 3: but he's also willing to help me do all the

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Speaker 3: things that you have to do to make sure that

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Speaker 3: those lights work in today's lighting fish, So that is

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Speaker 3: my splurge.

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Speaker 2: So can you give an example. I don't exactly know

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Speaker 2: what you mean when you say vintage lighting, Like, are

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Speaker 2: we talking about like a street lamp from France or

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Speaker 2: something that you've like, what does this look like?

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Speaker 3: Okay, no, no, I would tell you like Morano scampces

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Speaker 3: from the nineteen sixties, right. So I love history, and

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Speaker 3: history is told through fashion, food, decorating.

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Speaker 4: In your house.

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Speaker 3: You can often look like I'm a child of the

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Speaker 3: seventies and eighties. I know I'm older than you guys,

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Speaker 3: but you could look at a picture of a house

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Speaker 3: from the early eighties and know exactly the time period, right,

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Speaker 3: And so.

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Speaker 4: I love that and it's sort of historical and fun.

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Speaker 3: And that's why lighting is so interesting, because I think

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Speaker 3: it tells you a lot about what's going on during

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Speaker 3: that time.

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Speaker 4: Period, got it, Okay.

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Speaker 1: It's also it makes for a more interesting centerpiece things

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Speaker 1: to talk about because a lot of the style today

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to say there's not cool stuff out there,

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Speaker 1: but it's mimicking stuff from the past, or it can

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Speaker 1: be kind of bland. But if you get like an

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Speaker 1: authentic mid century piece from the sixties, it's a statement

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Speaker 1: and people are like, oh, tell me about that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Remember, lighting is the jewelry of the house. So

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Speaker 3: anyone who's doing like you.

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Speaker 2: Can sound like something that you continue to recite to

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Speaker 2: your husband. You don't understand that as.

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Speaker 3: It is, you have to say that to your spouse

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Speaker 3: to get them to buy in. Right. But you know,

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Speaker 3: it's funny because I love the mix of high and low, right,

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Speaker 3: And I think that's something true in personal finance and

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Speaker 3: even in my book.

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Speaker 4: Right, Like the presidents, they're.

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Speaker 3: So high end and yet we're sort of gossiping about

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Speaker 3: them in the book, which is sort of naughty.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 3: It's a little US magazine, which is what I love

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Speaker 3: about it.

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Speaker 2: Well, before we launch into the presidents, let's talk about you,

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Speaker 2: because we did some digging with you and just your

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Speaker 2: background and trying to figure you out. You've got quite

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Speaker 2: a resume from what I understand you were a congressional page.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 4: Oh my god, you really found that about me?

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Speaker 2: Yes, Like you've taught English overseas as well. We would

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Speaker 2: love to kind of hear.

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Speaker 1: The many lives of Megan Gormont. Why do you have

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Speaker 1: such a diverse background. It's fascinating.

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Speaker 3: You know. I grew up in a small town, but

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Speaker 3: my parents were from New York and so they were

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Speaker 3: always my father always was pushing us to think about

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Speaker 3: things intellectually.

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Speaker 4: So I've always loved politics, right.

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Speaker 3: I've loved the presidents and everything since I was like

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Speaker 3: six years old, and I really originally wanted to go

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Speaker 3: into politics back in the days when it wasn't so divisive,

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Speaker 3: and so I was a page and I loved it.

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Speaker 3: But when I was in college, I studied history fell

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Speaker 3: in love with it even deeper. I was a Medieval

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Speaker 3: British history major and a modern Chinese And I was

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Speaker 3: in college in the late nineties and my dad used

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Speaker 3: to say to me, China is going to be huge

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Speaker 3: during your lifetime.

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Speaker 4: Do yourself a favor.

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Speaker 3: Go learn about it so that you can understand. And

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Speaker 3: so I ended up going over to China. I taught

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Speaker 3: at a university in Tangent, which is the city next

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Speaker 3: to Beijing.

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Speaker 4: And this is.

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Speaker 3: Right as China was sort of changing, Like if I

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Speaker 3: showed up in China today, I wouldn't recognize the town

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Speaker 3: that I lived in. But it was just amazing to

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Speaker 3: really start to understand what China was going through, the drive,

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Speaker 3: what they hoped. And when I was there, there was

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Speaker 3: no middle class in China, and it's amazing to think

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Speaker 3: that here we are, you know, twenty five twenty six

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Speaker 3: years later, and forty three percent of all Chinese are

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Speaker 3: middle class. So being there at the time just taught

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Speaker 3: me a lot about China and how they think, and

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Speaker 3: it's helped me a lot in my career, mainly because

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Speaker 3: when you're working with people with their money, you don't

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Speaker 3: want them to be, you know, American centric in their portfolio.

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Speaker 3: Americans tend to own a lot of America in their portfolios.

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Speaker 3: You want them to have some areas of growth, like

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Speaker 3: emerging markets. So it does help to know a lot

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Speaker 3: about China.

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Speaker 2: All Right, I'm curious on the book front.

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Speaker 1: So you're a history nerd, not a historian, but history nerd, right,

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Speaker 1: history nerd?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I think I'm starting now.

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Speaker 3: I'm sort of straddling right both worlds because I did

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Speaker 3: have to get into primary source documents and really do

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Speaker 3: the historiography that you're required to do to do these

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Speaker 3: types of books.

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Speaker 2: Which is exactly my question.

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Speaker 1: Because you spent a lot of time, or I can

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Speaker 1: tell you spent a lot of effort kind of digging

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Speaker 1: up some of those details. How hard was it right

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Speaker 1: to research this book because most biographies of presidents they

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Speaker 1: just don't include Washington or Jefferson's detailed budget, Like you

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Speaker 1: got to the root of a lot of this money

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Speaker 1: stuff for a lot of presidents. How hard was it

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Speaker 1: to come by those details?

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Speaker 3: You know, it's each era of American history has its

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Speaker 3: different challenges. So I'll tell you anybody from sort of

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Speaker 3: HW Clinton on, any of those presidents are really hard

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Speaker 3: to get into and research because a lot of their

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Speaker 3: records are still closed. You know, they're still living, and

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Speaker 3: so you have to go about researching them very differently

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Speaker 3: than sort of the presidents from Reagan and earlier, where

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Speaker 3: they have presidential libraries or birthplaces. And what's really really

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Speaker 3: important when you're doing this research is we talk about

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Speaker 3: money all day long, right, We send emails, we're chatting

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Speaker 3: with our spouse, our friends.

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Speaker 4: So for me, it was finding letters, you know, and.

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Speaker 3: Really starting to look for that one or two sentences

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Speaker 3: that sort of showed me, oh, they are talking about

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Speaker 3: finance here, we're talking about how they feel. And I

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Speaker 3: talk about this early in the book, but I found

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Speaker 3: a letter from Lyndon B. Johnson in the early forties

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Speaker 3: to one of his friends saying, I was up at

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Speaker 3: two am, you know, scared about money. And what was

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Speaker 3: interesting was over looking at a lot of the different

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Speaker 3: presidents that thematically was a thread I saw across all

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Speaker 3: of them, and I think that's so important today because

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Speaker 3: you know, Matt Joel, so many of us worry about money, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, you just asked me my splurge, right, but

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Speaker 3: you didn't ask me what I was up at two am,

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Speaker 3: you know, worried about.

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Speaker 4: And the truth is LBJ is right. You are up

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Speaker 4: at two.

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Speaker 3: Am trying to figure out are you doing all the

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Speaker 3: right things? Regardless of what your asked.

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Speaker 2: A basis, Yeah, it's true. Like early on in the book,

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Speaker 2: I think you said that most of their money problems

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Speaker 2: are just like ours, and I totally agree, right, like

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Speaker 2: the emotions behind that they are no different at all.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, there are also some contrasts, right,

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Speaker 2: like you've got you talk. You start the whole book

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Speaker 2: with the FDR because he lost something like twenty six

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars by investing in lobsters, and if you inflation

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Speaker 2: adjust that number, it's a lot, right, it's much more.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's half a million dollars.

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Speaker 3: And you know it's funny because I found that story

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Speaker 3: by chance. There was one book about somebody mentioned something

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Speaker 3: about he was investing in things like lobsters and dirigibles.

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Speaker 3: So I call the FDR Library, right, and you make

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Speaker 3: an appointment to go into the archives, and you know,

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Speaker 3: people go to the FDR Library and Hyde Park because

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Speaker 3: they want to learn about the depression of World War

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Speaker 3: two or social security. And I literally called them up

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Speaker 3: and I'm like, I'm here for the lobsters.

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Speaker 4: And God blessed these archivists because they are like.

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Speaker 3: You're what But when I arrived, Because what happens is

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Speaker 3: you go and they look for this and then they

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Speaker 3: tell you what boxes they believe it's in, and then

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Speaker 3: you go to the archive room. You wear special gloves,

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Speaker 3: you can't bring anything in. They're very strict, and they

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Speaker 3: give you the boxes. And in one of the boxes

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Speaker 3: was all of this correspondence.

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Speaker 4: And what's really.

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Speaker 3: Striking to me is FDR made this investment and he's

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Speaker 3: like a lot of people today with angel investing. Right.

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Speaker 3: You know, my friend's got a company, or my friend

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Speaker 3: has a great idea. Let me throw twenty five thousand

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Speaker 3: at it, and I'll do like a safe note or

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Speaker 3: a convertible note. And FDR sort of does this in

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Speaker 3: nineteen twenty one. But Matt and Joel, when you go

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Speaker 3: behind the scenes in nineteen twenty one, that's the summer

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Speaker 3: he got polio, and so that whole lobster situation where

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Speaker 3: they're trying to figure out how to fix the investment.

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Speaker 4: You know, he's there trying to figure out am I

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Speaker 4: ever going to walk again?

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Speaker 3: And so you just imagine sort of what's going on

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Speaker 3: in his mind, And there's part of me that wonders

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Speaker 3: maybe the lobsters were a fun little reprieve from the

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Speaker 3: stress of trying to figure out how am I ever

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Speaker 3: going to walk again?

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Speaker 2: But it's a small distraction, it is.

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Speaker 3: And you think about your own money and the things

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Speaker 3: you're worried about at the same time you're worried about money,

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Speaker 3: and you sort of are like, Okay, I get it.

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Speaker 3: But but FDR was interesting in the sense that, unlike

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Speaker 3: the most of us, he had a safety net. Right.

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Speaker 3: He's the ultimate trust fund kid. His mother was his

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Speaker 3: trustee for most of his life, right, because she only

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Speaker 3: died a few years before him. And so what was

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Speaker 3: interesting in his situation was the letters between him and

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Speaker 3: Eleanor and him and his mother, and he'd be like, hey, mom,

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Speaker 3: things are great. I just saw so and so, by

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Speaker 3: the way, can you send me X number of dollars

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Speaker 3: I need it for this so's it was interesting and

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Speaker 3: going through his correspondence to sort of see how money

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Speaker 3: was just a part of the conversation.

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Speaker 1: I send those letters to my mom and I just

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Speaker 1: get no reply. It's terrible. Can you do something about that?

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Speaker 2: Mag h.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's amazing how many of our presidents were always

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Speaker 3: on allowances, right, like you know we think about today,

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, poor Millennials and gen Zers. You know,

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Speaker 3: mom and dad are still supporting them and so on.

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Speaker 3: That's something over the course of American history that's been there.

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Speaker 3: I mean, Calvin Coolidge had an allowance from his father

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Speaker 3: of the course of his lifetime.

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Speaker 4: Dwight D.

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Speaker 3: Eisenhower, when he married Maimie, got an allowance from her

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Speaker 3: father to support her because she was wealthy and he wasn't.

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Speaker 3: So it's funny how you learn these little things and

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Speaker 3: you start to look at these historical figures and go,

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Speaker 3: oh gosh, yes, you are just like us.

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Speaker 2: Well you kind of highlight it too.

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Speaker 1: How what's happening as you're having money issues, money successes

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Speaker 1: or failures, is you're also having life successes or life failures.

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Speaker 1: And how those things overlap and how they influence one another.

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Speaker 1: That is something all of us deal with too. I

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Speaker 1: want to kind of drill down into the financial anxiety

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Speaker 1: thing just for a second too. You actually have a

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Speaker 1: spectrum Truman to Ford financial anxiety continuum. Can you like,

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Speaker 1: what's the difference between those guys, those former presidents and

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Speaker 1: kind of where they stood on anxiety and how we

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Speaker 1: can kind of find ourselves somewhere on that continuum.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they're both interesting characters.

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Speaker 3: And by the way, they both died on the same day,

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Speaker 3: different years, on December twenty sixth, in different years, and.

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Speaker 4: They actually knew each other.

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Speaker 3: And I think for you know, Ford is one of

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Speaker 3: these guys in American history that I think we missed

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Speaker 3: out on an opportunity because two years in he of

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Speaker 3: course loses the election to Jimmy Carter and has to,

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Speaker 3: you know, basically retire. And most presidents will tell you

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Speaker 3: it takes them two years to figure out the job.

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Speaker 3: And you know, Ford, throughout his life he had a

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Speaker 3: little bit of a golden touch. He sort of walked

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Speaker 3: through life and made it look like a hot knife

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Speaker 3: cutting through butter. But what's interesting about Ford is every

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Speaker 3: time he would come to that fork in the road

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Speaker 3: where he has to make a life decision that has

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Speaker 3: a financial component to it.

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Speaker 4: He was not afraid to go the other way.

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Speaker 3: And I think this is important because when I work

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Speaker 3: with my clients, right, I work with wealthy individuals, and

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Speaker 3: people look at them and will say to me, how

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Speaker 3: can they even worry they've got all that money. Well,

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Speaker 3: let me tell you they worry. They were just like

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Speaker 3: everybody else. But there's something about when you get to

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Speaker 3: a financial decision point, being willing to take a look

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Speaker 3: at the opportunity, set the risk, and what its impact

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Speaker 3: will be and be unafraid to go in a different direction.

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Speaker 4: And you see that with Jerry Ford over the course

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Speaker 4: of his life.

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Speaker 3: So, for instance, he's in college and one he plays football,

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Speaker 3: has this phenomenal football game where the scouts are out

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Speaker 3: and he gets recruited by two teams, the Detroit Lions

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Speaker 3: and the Green Bay Packers, and the Ford library has

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Speaker 3: the letters with the offer, and the offer would have

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Speaker 3: been wonderful for somebody coming out of college, and Ford

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Speaker 3: sort of looks at it and he's like, no, I

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Speaker 3: want to be a lawyer. I'm better served going to

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Speaker 3: Yale and coaching football at Yale and trying to figure

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Speaker 3: out how to get.

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Speaker 4: Into law school there.

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Speaker 3: And so you see this again and again, and he

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Speaker 3: ends up revolutionizing the presidency because when he leaves office,

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Speaker 3: he's young, he's in his sixties, and he is like,

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Speaker 3: I'm a capitalist, I'm going to work. And so he

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Speaker 3: decides not just to write a book, because most presidents

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Speaker 3: when they left office up to that point either wrote

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Speaker 3: a book, went back to practicing law, or just dropped dead.

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Speaker 3: And don't laugh, because it happened all the time. I mean,

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Speaker 3: Washington lived about a year and a half and then

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Speaker 3: he died.

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Speaker 1: No more excitement, so why not just go to the grave.

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Speaker 4: It's like, there's nothing better.

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Speaker 3: And so he ends up deciding to do things like speaking.

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Speaker 3: But he just is very good at what we call

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Speaker 3: the financial pivot, which is key to financial confidence.

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Speaker 4: Right, you're not going to always.

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Speaker 3: Have everything be puppies and kittens and roses and rainbows

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Speaker 3: in finance, it doesn't happen that way.

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Speaker 4: But what happens is if you.

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Speaker 3: Catch yourself failing, you've got to be able to master

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Speaker 3: the pivot. And he was excellent at when he made

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Speaker 3: mistakes moving in the other direction. So if you think

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Speaker 3: about him, he's that example of financial confidence, even though

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Speaker 3: I'm sure he still was up at two am. And

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Speaker 3: then you have on the other end of the spectrum

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Speaker 3: Harry Truman, you know, really fascinating guy. He's often seen

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Speaker 3: as our poorest president. That's not true. But he does

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Speaker 3: grow up a farm family in Missouri, you know, and

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Speaker 3: he has a lot of volatility financially over the course

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Speaker 3: of his life. His father invents things and then doesn't

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Speaker 3: patent it the right way. His father at one point

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Speaker 3: goes to the futures exchange and bets all of the

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Speaker 3: family's money and loses it. And poor Harry doesn't get

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Speaker 3: to go to college. He start joins all these businesses

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Speaker 3: and they fail. He goes to strike rich and oil.

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Speaker 3: He can't do it, can't afford it, sells the oil well,

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Speaker 3: and then like a month later, somebody strikes oil on it.

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Speaker 3: He has a zinc mind that fails. The haberdash refails.

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Speaker 3: So he's somebody who can't seem to catch a break.

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Speaker 3: And we have a lot of people like that today, right.

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Speaker 3: You know, if they didn't have bad luck, they'd have

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Speaker 3: no luck at all. Right, And you see him struggle,

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Speaker 3: and you see that eroad financial decision making and what

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Speaker 3: I mean by that is when people are struggling and

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Speaker 3: they deal with this, sometimes they get obsessed with get

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Speaker 3: rich quick schemes, right, and we have those today, right,

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Speaker 3: we have them.

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Speaker 4: They're called the lottery.

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Speaker 3: And you see people make those types of crazy decisions,

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Speaker 3: like jumping into things like crypto because they think they're.

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Speaker 4: Going to make a lot of money fast.

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Speaker 3: And so Truman struggled a long time over his life,

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Speaker 3: very anxious about money and the debts that he had

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Speaker 3: dealt with. And this went on all the way till

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Speaker 3: he became president. And so I would tell you Truman

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Speaker 3: has what we would call today a little bit of

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Speaker 3: bag lady syndrome. And what I mean by that is

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Speaker 3: he actually did end up making money. What happened was

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Speaker 3: he ended up saving a lot of his presidential salary,

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Speaker 3: and in Congress for brief two years, gave the president

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Speaker 3: a tax free stipend that didn't require accounting for entertaining,

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Speaker 3: and Truman saved all of it because the White House

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Speaker 3: was under construction. So he had by the time of

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Speaker 3: his life about seven hundred and fifty thousand dollars about

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Speaker 3: seven or eight million in today's dollars.

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Speaker 4: And he was always very private about it. People thought,

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Speaker 4: you know, he was poor, that he was.

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Speaker 3: Struggling, and I think part of him just worried that

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Speaker 3: he was going to end up a bit of a

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Speaker 3: bagman or bag lady. And I see this all the time.

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Speaker 3: Even with my clients incredibly wealthy, there is that fear

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Speaker 3: that things are going to get taken from them, that

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Speaker 3: they're going to fall backwards.

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Speaker 4: And it's a really hard thing in money, because.

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Speaker 3: What you're really trying to do when you're with somebody

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Speaker 3: in my role is make them feel safe. And I've

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Speaker 3: always wondered I wish Truman could have talked to other

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Speaker 3: people about this type of anxiety to feel safe with

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Speaker 3: his money.

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Speaker 2: It's a recurring theme in your book. You're talking about

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Speaker 2: this sort of the continuum, but then also the journey

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Speaker 2: that a lot of these presidents go on as they

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Speaker 2: set out to achieve resiliency from a place of fragility,

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Speaker 2: but not all the presidents are able to accomplish that.

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Speaker 2: I'm curious, how did the era just appeared in time

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Speaker 2: in which each of these presidents grew up but then

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Speaker 2: governed in How do you think that impacted their financial situation.

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Speaker 2: I'm thinking of like on one end of the spectrum,

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Speaker 2: you've got maybe the Great Depression. But yeah, talk to

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Speaker 2: us about context a little bit.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, I think that's a really great question, right,

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Speaker 3: And no one's asked me that, But it's something I've

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Speaker 3: thought about a lot. And I'll use Ronald Reagan as

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Speaker 3: a great example of this.

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Speaker 4: You know, Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 3: Was born in nineteen ten, you know, came of age roughly,

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Speaker 3: you know, to go to college during the depression and

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Speaker 3: so on. And what I would tell you is it's

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Speaker 3: a balance between what's going on externally and what's going

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Speaker 3: on in their early money life. So what I mean

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Speaker 3: by that is, you know, if you think about it,

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Speaker 3: if he had grown up in a home where there

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Speaker 3: was a lot of stable finances, Reagan might not have

431
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Speaker 3: become so hyper almost obsessive about budgeting. But Reagan's father

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Speaker 3: was an alcoholic, and by all accounts, Reagan, to his credit,

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Speaker 3: always understood alcoholism was a disease. But Reagan's father was

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Speaker 3: a shoe salesman, and his father would get paid and

435
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Speaker 3: as his father would walk home with the paycheck, he

436
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Speaker 3: would spend it all on alcohol. So by the time

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Speaker 3: he got to the family's front porch, there was no

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Speaker 3: money left. And his mother, Noll, who was a very

439
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Speaker 3: church going woman, very good at budgeting and so on.

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Speaker 3: She even went to his employer and said, stop paying

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Speaker 3: him and pay me. But he was but she was

442
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 3: a woman, and they were like, we're not going to

443
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,320
Speaker 3: give him the paycheck for a man to a woman. Right,

444
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,560
Speaker 3: So of the error, right, the morals of the error.

445
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,439
Speaker 3: And so you know what you see with Reagan is

446
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:01,159
Speaker 3: the reagansh used to leave in the middle of the

447
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:03,800
Speaker 3: night to escape their landlord. You know, they would have

448
00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:06,840
Speaker 3: changed they changed towns, and he changed his father changed jobs.

449
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:10,680
Speaker 4: So in his case there was a lot of volatility.

450
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,920
Speaker 4: But in terms of his personal.

451
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 3: Life, were there things going on like the Great Depression

452
00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 3: and things like that at the same time, yes, And

453
00:20:19,000 --> 00:20:21,359
Speaker 3: does that have an impact, Yes, those external moments do,

454
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,359
Speaker 3: But I would tell you that the personal stuff impacted

455
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 3: him more. But what we have to keep in mind,

456
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:31,439
Speaker 3: and this is one of the conclusions I came to

457
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 3: in the book, is when a lot of these presidents lived,

458
00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 3: the institutions of the United States were very nimble, they

459
00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:44,280
Speaker 3: were flexible, they were changeable. Right, So in the time

460
00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,800
Speaker 3: that someone like a Reagan grew up the idea of

461
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,800
Speaker 3: going to college, and you know, and going to college

462
00:20:49,800 --> 00:20:52,440
Speaker 3: for maybe a couple hundred dollars a year, and you know,

463
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:54,120
Speaker 3: figuring out a way to pay for it while you're

464
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:57,040
Speaker 3: in college, and then going and buying a house. All

465
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 3: of these things were a lot easier back then than

466
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 3: they are today today. And you know, you can come

467
00:21:03,520 --> 00:21:05,560
Speaker 3: to your conclusions on where they are. So many of

468
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 3: our institutions are so fixed that you can't maneuver around it. Right.

469
00:21:10,760 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 4: So, you know, Reagan goes to college and they give him.

470
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,440
Speaker 3: As he shows up to drop his girlfriend off at college,

471
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,280
Speaker 3: the college admissions dean sees him, looks at him, says,

472
00:21:19,320 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 3: we want you for the football team, and gives him.

473
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,040
Speaker 4: A scholarship on the spot. That doesn't happen today.

474
00:21:24,240 --> 00:21:26,440
Speaker 3: Right today, it's a whole game, and you got to

475
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:27,840
Speaker 3: take your kid here, and you got to hire these

476
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:28,920
Speaker 3: people to help you connect.

477
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 4: Right.

478
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,760
Speaker 3: And so you think about that, You think about buying

479
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:33,199
Speaker 3: a house today and how hard it is.

480
00:21:33,200 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 4: I mean, why do we need twenty percent down to

481
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:36,240
Speaker 4: buy a house?

482
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,280
Speaker 3: And the reason is, back in the forties and fifties,

483
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:42,160
Speaker 3: if a bank had to repossess your house, they usually

484
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:44,080
Speaker 3: only could get eighty cents on the dollar for it,

485
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:45,880
Speaker 3: so they wanted to be able to recoup more.

486
00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:49,320
Speaker 4: So these are some of the things that are in.

487
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,200
Speaker 3: The US society today that weren't there previously that let

488
00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:58,159
Speaker 3: presidents like Nixon, Eisenhower, Reagan, Ford, you know, really be

489
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 3: able to build wealth much easier than it is today.

490
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,439
Speaker 3: So I know him on my soapbox on that, But

491
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:07,280
Speaker 3: that was one of the conclusions I came was that it's.

492
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,359
Speaker 4: Just harder today to achieve the American dream.

493
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:10,800
Speaker 2: Hmmm.

494
00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,119
Speaker 1: No, I appreciate that insight, are we There's so many,

495
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:17,040
Speaker 1: so many interesting money stories you share from so many

496
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:19,480
Speaker 1: of the presidents, Meghan, and we've got to we've got

497
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:21,560
Speaker 1: to get some more, including we got to talk about

498
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,399
Speaker 1: Lincoln growing up in poverty, how that impacts him becoming

499
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:27,000
Speaker 1: potentially the greatest president of all time. We'll get to

500
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:28,200
Speaker 1: that and more right after this.

501
00:22:36,119 --> 00:22:37,960
Speaker 2: All right, we are back from the break and we're

502
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 2: discussing some of these presidential money lessons with guest Meghan

503
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,879
Speaker 2: Gorman and Megan, we're not going to be able to

504
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 2: go through the book like you wrote it, where essentially

505
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 2: there's like these financial building blocks and it's sort of

506
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:52,679
Speaker 2: like a graduated lesson learning sort of journey that you

507
00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:54,600
Speaker 2: take folks on, but we do want to kind of

508
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 2: like pick and choose. This is like the Ali Carte vision.

509
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 2: I guess I got.

510
00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:00,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, totally, And I should say one thing Joel

511
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 3: is I wrote the book because I thought about what

512
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 3: my clients did, and people always want to know what

513
00:23:04,880 --> 00:23:05,800
Speaker 3: wealthy people do.

514
00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:08,200
Speaker 4: So it was looking at that sort of saying.

515
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 3: These are the skills they had, exactly, But I'm glad

516
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:11,200
Speaker 3: you picked up exactly.

517
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, there are some building blocks and basic skills,

518
00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:15,960
Speaker 2: but then beyond that there are different approaches that you

519
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: take in order to realize life in a different way,

520
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,879
Speaker 2: to appreciate it, and then to build wealth ultimately. Yeah, but,

521
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,160
Speaker 2: like Joel mentioned before the break, you write about Lincoln

522
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 2: and he came from so little. He was born in

523
00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:28,480
Speaker 2: a single room cabin. That's basically the stuff of flore

524
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:30,760
Speaker 2: of lessons. But what kind of impact do you think

525
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 2: his upbringing hat on his ability to govern? And maybe

526
00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:36,359
Speaker 2: more importantly for our conversation today, what are some of

527
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,520
Speaker 2: the themes? What are some of the lessons that you

528
00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: discovered about his personal finances during your research that we

529
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:44,119
Speaker 2: might be able to apply to our lives.

530
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:45,280
Speaker 4: One question mass a lot.

531
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,639
Speaker 3: Is their personal money impact their fiscal policy. And I

532
00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 3: would tell you that at the end of the day,

533
00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:52,919
Speaker 3: fiscal policy is driven by thousands of people.

534
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:55,720
Speaker 4: But what's striking about Lincoln's story.

535
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:58,439
Speaker 3: And the genesis of the book actually started was I

536
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 3: went to his presidential life library and Springfield. But outside

537
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:05,720
Speaker 3: Springfield is the town with the log cabin that he

538
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 3: lived in where he was the postmaster and he had

539
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,919
Speaker 3: a store. And you go there and you look at

540
00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:13,440
Speaker 3: these log cabins, and then you end up at Springfield

541
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,080
Speaker 3: and on the corner of the best street in town

542
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:17,240
Speaker 3: is his house.

543
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,399
Speaker 4: And it's a stunning house. It's a huge.

544
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,760
Speaker 3: House, gorgeous, and you realize he made that jump over

545
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,600
Speaker 3: ten years, which is incredibly impressive. So here's what I

546
00:24:26,640 --> 00:24:32,040
Speaker 3: would tell you about Lincoln. Lincoln was an incredibly learning being.

547
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:35,919
Speaker 3: He was always studying. He was always learning.

548
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 4: I read a story.

549
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,639
Speaker 3: Once that he would when he was in Congress. He

550
00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 3: would go over to the library and read all the time.

551
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 3: He really was always trying to improve himself. And that

552
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,000
Speaker 3: was important because Lincoln started out with not a lot

553
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,159
Speaker 3: of money. Now there's differing accounts over time about how

554
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 3: much his family did have growing up. It was up

555
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,560
Speaker 3: and down and up and down. But he also failed

556
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:02,280
Speaker 3: a lot. And so what's really interesting is one of

557
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 3: his contemporaries with the last name Pratt, actually wrote the

558
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:09,320
Speaker 3: financial history of Lincoln after Lincoln died. And what you

559
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 3: learn is that Lincoln, really, you know, takes a lot

560
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:15,959
Speaker 3: of odd jobs, gets involved in a lot of businesses,

561
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 3: loses money, gets sued. I mean, he is a hot

562
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: financial mess, but he's constantly learning how to do better.

563
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 3: And he makes his way to Springfield where he becomes

564
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:29,840
Speaker 3: a lawyer, and he is starting to make consistent money.

565
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:34,280
Speaker 3: He's doing well, and he does something that a number

566
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,119
Speaker 3: of our presidents do that help him build.

567
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 4: Wealth, and that is he marries up.

568
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:42,920
Speaker 3: He marries a woman, a wealthy woman from Lexington, Kentucky,

569
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 3: Mary Todd, and they both share a passion for politics.

570
00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 4: But they both come from very different backgrounds.

571
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:51,479
Speaker 3: And I bring this up because you know, in working

572
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,639
Speaker 3: with clients, right, you can come from different backgrounds, but

573
00:25:54,680 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 3: you have to have very similar values on money. And

574
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 3: so you know, Lincoln and went from somebody who was

575
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,400
Speaker 3: struggling learning how to have money, learning how to grow

576
00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:08,760
Speaker 3: wealth to being married to a wealthy woman. He moved

577
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 3: her first to a boarding house. She can't tolerate that,

578
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:14,960
Speaker 3: so her dad comes to town and helps them buy

579
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,880
Speaker 3: a house, and Lincoln will take some of the help

580
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 3: from him, and some of the help he won't take.

581
00:26:20,440 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 3: But Lincoln over time realizes that Mary is a spender

582
00:26:24,720 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 3: and they have very different values on this. And so

583
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:31,879
Speaker 3: while she's off doing stuff, he's constantly saving and constantly

584
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 3: trying to create stability. And what's fascinating about him is

585
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,400
Speaker 3: he does a lot of things right, and then he.

586
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,199
Speaker 4: Will do things that are really odd.

587
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:45,919
Speaker 3: So on the day he dies, and just you know,

588
00:26:46,000 --> 00:26:48,360
Speaker 3: if a president is killed in office, they're paid through

589
00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 3: the last day that they serve. So Kennedy, Lincoln, Garfield, McKinley,

590
00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,639
Speaker 3: they all were paid through their last day and then

591
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,959
Speaker 3: the paycheck stops the next day because there's a new president.

592
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 3: And now we have pinched within have pencils of the time.

593
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 3: But one of the things that I think Lincoln did

594
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: make a mistake on is despite having all of these

595
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:11,080
Speaker 3: visions of his death, he forgets to write an estate plan,

596
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,719
Speaker 3: or if he did want, no one knew where it

597
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 3: was and so his son Robert Lincoln has to ask

598
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 3: the Chief Justice of the United States to come immediately

599
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 3: to help them manage the estate. Because by the time

600
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 3: Lincoln dies in eighteen sixty five, his fifteen thousand dollars

601
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 3: estate has now become eighty five thousand, or the equivalent

602
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 3: of two million dollars today, And so this is a

603
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: huge estate. And they have to go out and they

604
00:27:37,359 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 3: have to collect all the assets, get all the bonds,

605
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 3: gather everything in Springfield. And because he doesn't have an estate,

606
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:47,880
Speaker 3: they have to basically follow the espousal share rules, which

607
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:50,639
Speaker 3: is a third goes to Mary Todd Lincoln, his wife,

608
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 3: a third to his son Tad, and a third to

609
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 3: his son Robert. And so that's how the Lincoln estate

610
00:27:56,040 --> 00:28:00,919
Speaker 3: gets dispersed. So he's incredibly successful on bing wealth. But

611
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,000
Speaker 3: he's almost a question mark because we don't know what

612
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 3: he would have.

613
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 4: Done, right, what would he have done?

614
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,040
Speaker 3: And I would agree with you, Lincoln is you know,

615
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:10,879
Speaker 3: it's always a toss up depending on what's going on

616
00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:13,240
Speaker 3: in the US today, if it's Lincoln, Washington.

617
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:15,960
Speaker 4: Or Fdr As our greatest. But he was amazing, But

618
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:17,120
Speaker 4: I would say this to anyone.

619
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 3: He was a self learner, and so I believe financial

620
00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 3: literacy and resiliency comes from constantly learning, and podcasts like

621
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 3: this are a great example.

622
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 4: You know, financial literacy.

623
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 3: Literacy should be taught in schools, but it's not like

624
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 3: you should turn eighteen and you stop thinking about it.

625
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,239
Speaker 3: It should be a constant how are we learning, how

626
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 3: are we growing?

627
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 4: And what are other people doing?

628
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,360
Speaker 1: Our one one President Megan that could have used some

629
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: financial literacy or And it's also I think this particular

630
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: example highlights somebody who was brilliant beyond belief, but not

631
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 1: good with money, and so IQ doesn't necessarily translate into

632
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,360
Speaker 1: solid money habits. Is Thomas Jefferson, I know, and I

633
00:28:57,360 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: feel like his how he handled money he kind of

634
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:01,920
Speaker 1: reflects a modern trend, right where he had plenty of it,

635
00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 1: but he couldn't control his spending, even to the point

636
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: where he had to auction off some of his possessions

637
00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:07,360
Speaker 1: later in life.

638
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 4: Right, yeah, he almost auctioned off Monticello.

639
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 3: So I always ask myself this question, like if I

640
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:16,840
Speaker 3: could be a great writer, philosopher, thinker like Jefferson and

641
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:18,640
Speaker 3: be really bad with money, or be really good with

642
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 3: money but not be able to write like that.

643
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 4: I mean, what would I choose? I mean I totally

644
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:23,880
Speaker 4: would have picked the former right, like he picked right

645
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 4: in that decision making.

646
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:28,760
Speaker 3: But Jefferson brings up a really interesting phenomenon that we

647
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 3: see today, which is Jefferson really was not good at

648
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 3: connecting with his future self and planning ahead. Now, part

649
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 3: of that had to do with the fact that a

650
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,040
Speaker 3: lot of his assets were illiquid, right, and so he

651
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 3: wasn't able to really get good cash flow. And he

652
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 3: was a slaveholder, so that was a problem as well.

653
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 3: But you know, in his case, Jefferson loved the good

654
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 3: things in life. He loved almost some sort of instant gratification.

655
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 3: And it's because of Jefferson that, you know, French wines

656
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:01,719
Speaker 3: started to come to the United dates parmesan cheese. We

657
00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 3: should all thank him every time you have an ice

658
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,120
Speaker 3: cream cone, because he was the first one who brought

659
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 3: ice cream to the US. But he was living such

660
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 3: a big lifestyle, especially since he went to France and

661
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: saw how the French lived, that he wasn't good at budgeting,

662
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:20,400
Speaker 3: and he wasn't good at managing what he was trying

663
00:30:20,440 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 3: to achieve financially.

664
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 4: It was almost like he was like I'll figure it

665
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:27,560
Speaker 4: out tomorrow, and I will tell you what.

666
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 3: Happens is he ends up accumulating the equipment about two

667
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: million dollars of debt in today's dollars. And this culminates

668
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:36,560
Speaker 3: really with the last letter Thomas and Jefferson writes, is

669
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 3: this beautiful treatise on freedom and democracy.

670
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 4: And so on.

671
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 3: But the second to last letter is a letter asking

672
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 3: if he could buy wine on credit.

673
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 4: So you know, he just couldn't change who he was.

674
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,360
Speaker 3: And you know, I often think about how do you

675
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 3: work with someone like a Thomas Jefferson. I have clients

676
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 3: who are a lot like this, and the thing is

677
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 3: you're constantly trying to ground them and get them.

678
00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 4: To commit to try trying.

679
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 3: To meet some of the goals and trying to really

680
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:05,320
Speaker 3: you know, he was never going to be a George

681
00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 3: Washington in terms of budgeting.

682
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 4: But how can we create liquidity?

683
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 3: How can we create a buffer so that in case

684
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 3: something happens, you have some protection from the downside.

685
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: And you know, I'm sure.

686
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 3: Jefferson would have said something very eloquent to talk me

687
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 3: out of that, but you know, I think with him,

688
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:27,400
Speaker 3: it's how can we delay gratification and think about what

689
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,480
Speaker 3: you want in five, ten, twenty.

690
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 4: Thirty, forty years. So anyone who.

691
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 3: Works with a financial planner when they ask you, like,

692
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 3: how do you envision your retirement?

693
00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 4: Where do you see yourself? I think visualization is something

694
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,000
Speaker 4: we should do a lot more of with.

695
00:31:41,000 --> 00:31:44,280
Speaker 3: Our finances today and sort of thinking about who we

696
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:45,920
Speaker 3: want to be. How do we want our money to

697
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 3: feel as we age, Right when we're in our seventies,

698
00:31:50,280 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 3: what does that look like? Am I going to be

699
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,680
Speaker 3: up at two am because I can't pay the bills?

700
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:56,440
Speaker 3: Or am I going to be up at two am

701
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 3: because uh yeah I can afford to. But I decided

702
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 3: to take all the kids to Disy world, right, And

703
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 3: this is the type of work that I think people

704
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,400
Speaker 3: could really benefit from. And doing it with your spouse

705
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 3: as well, because you have to also visualize together the

706
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: same dream.

707
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, you got to figure out what you each

708
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 2: want and what you want together as a team. I

709
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 2: love how you're looking through all of the presidents and

710
00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 2: their different stories through financial planning lens, because that is

711
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 2: what you do. But like, so at the opposite end

712
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 2: of the spectrum of Jefferson, like, I've got to think

713
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: you've got a good sense of maybe the most frugal

714
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 2: or the thriftiest president that there was. Can you share

715
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:35,120
Speaker 2: who you found?

716
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 4: Yeah? So Calvin Coolidge is an interesting character. He would

717
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,040
Speaker 4: tell you he was thrifty, and he's a quirky guy.

718
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:45,840
Speaker 3: We all know him as silent cal You know the

719
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 3: famous story of the reporter who goes to to him

720
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,320
Speaker 3: at a cocktail party and says, I bet I can

721
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,920
Speaker 3: get you to say more than two words, and he

722
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 3: looks at him and just says.

723
00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 4: You lose. You know.

724
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:59,560
Speaker 3: Coolidge is a funny character, quirky guy, interesting, but incredibly frugal.

725
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 4: You know. The leading historian on Coolidge.

726
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,160
Speaker 3: Always says, think of him as a missionary. But he

727
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,200
Speaker 3: had a lot of trauma in his early life, right

728
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 3: His mother and his sister die fairly early on, you know,

729
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 3: and he's living in this small town and his father

730
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 3: has some money, they have some land holdings, and so

731
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 3: he decides he's going to be thrifty over the course

732
00:33:19,600 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 3: of his life. He's almost like, I don't want saye

733
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 3: he's part of the fire movement, but he's got his

734
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,480
Speaker 3: own little movement going on, and he finds a woman

735
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,640
Speaker 3: who's in it with him as well. They live at

736
00:33:27,680 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 3: a boarding house at one point, and at one point

737
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,600
Speaker 3: the boarding house goes out of business and they go

738
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,920
Speaker 3: buy all the old sheets that say Norwood Hotel. They

739
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 3: think it's charming. They rent the whole time. But what

740
00:33:39,520 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 3: was fascinating with him was he how he dressed. So

741
00:33:44,480 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 3: he was very thrifty, never wanted to spend money, was

742
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 3: a total renter, even when in the White House. The

743
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 3: woman who was the head of the White House, she

744
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 3: was the only one in him. He was the only

745
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,240
Speaker 3: one in her memoirs that she complained about because of

746
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 3: how cheap he was.

747
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,760
Speaker 4: But he was dressed to the nines and the reason.

748
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 3: And if you look at any pictures and go closer

749
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,280
Speaker 3: up of Coolidge, you'll see his suits are beautifully tailored,

750
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 3: as is his wife's clothing. Grace was considered a beauty

751
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:12,400
Speaker 3: at the time, and she dressed very well.

752
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 4: And that's because he had a.

753
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 3: Big department store supporter who used to help them with

754
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 3: their clothing.

755
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 4: And so again another way of being thrifty.

756
00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:25,960
Speaker 3: So the sad thing about Calvin Coolidge is he does

757
00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:30,759
Speaker 3: eventually have a significant amount of money, but he never

758
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,839
Speaker 3: really enjoys it because he dies fairly early on after

759
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,320
Speaker 3: he leaves office, so again he's thrifty. But I almost

760
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,080
Speaker 3: felt it was too extreme, almost to the point where

761
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:43,240
Speaker 3: it was like, come on, Calvin, like relax a little,

762
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 3: Like it's okay.

763
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:45,960
Speaker 4: You can't take the money with you.

764
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 1: Do you want to take it overboard and go all

765
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: Thomas Jefferson with it? But if you go through hard

766
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 1: in the coolist direction, that we won't have enough money to

767
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:52,719
Speaker 1: buy your vintage.

768
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,319
Speaker 3: Lighting exactly exactly, And look, I'll have you guys over

769
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:57,960
Speaker 3: for a beer under my vintage lighting.

770
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: And that's a bad existence too, Right, The extremes are

771
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: kind of what we're trying to avoid here. I'm curious

772
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: to Megan, you're right about there's a presidential obsession with

773
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,680
Speaker 1: the game of poker. Apparently, Yes, was it Dwight Eisenhower that,

774
00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,279
Speaker 1: of all the presidents was most into it. What does

775
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: that reveal though, if there's like an over indexing of

776
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 1: presidents who play poker about the presidential personality in general.

777
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, And it was interesting.

778
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:24,680
Speaker 3: The Wall Street Journal just had an article about a

779
00:35:24,719 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 3: trading firm where they have all of their traders play poker.

780
00:35:27,719 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 4: Poker is a really fascinating game.

781
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 3: It teaches you how to think and think in a

782
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:35,000
Speaker 3: very different way. And I want to talk about Eisenhower

783
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 3: here because you know, I walked away from writing the

784
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 3: book and I got to tell you I didn't just

785
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 3: like Ike. I love Dyke awesome, but he's a hard

786
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 3: guy to get to get to get close to. And

787
00:35:47,680 --> 00:35:50,200
Speaker 3: you know, he grew up poor, and he grew up

788
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,239
Speaker 3: in a town called Abilene, Kansas. And when he was

789
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,920
Speaker 3: growing up in Kansas, you know, he really struggled. His

790
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 3: father was very tough on them. Life was tough there,

791
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 3: and he ended up befriending a guy in town.

792
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 4: He was like a bachelor guy, probably didn't have a

793
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:07,399
Speaker 4: lot of money.

794
00:36:07,400 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 3: And the guy would take Ike hunting, take him fishing,

795
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 3: and they would be out there, you know, on the lake,

796
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:16,799
Speaker 3: and he would teach Ike how to play poker, how

797
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,600
Speaker 3: to view the cards, how to calculate odds, how to

798
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:20,600
Speaker 3: have a poker face.

799
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 4: And Ike was just his.

800
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 3: Personality was very very good at this. And so over

801
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 3: the course of Ike's life, and of course he's in

802
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:32,320
Speaker 3: the military. For most of his life he plays poker.

803
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 3: Although in the military, I have to tell you he

804
00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 3: did stop at a certain.

805
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:36,400
Speaker 4: Point when he became too senior.

806
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: Because he often won and he wasn't He didn't want

807
00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 3: to take the money from the from the guys who

808
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 3: were junior to him. And so the story I tell

809
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,360
Speaker 3: in the book is actually a story I found. It

810
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 3: was hard to find. But you know, Ike fell in

811
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 3: love with a woman who was wealthier than him. Mamie

812
00:36:53,680 --> 00:36:57,200
Speaker 3: Eisenhower Maymie Dowd was from a family, wealthy family. They

813
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 3: had servants in Denver. Her father was a manufacturer, and

814
00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,040
Speaker 3: she lived a very lovely lifestyle growing up. And if

815
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 3: you ever see pictures of the two of them when

816
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 3: they're young, I mean, both Mamy and Ike are good

817
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:13,440
Speaker 3: looking people, like you get it, like they are just

818
00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:14,399
Speaker 3: drawn to each other.

819
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,719
Speaker 4: They see each other and he decides he must have her.

820
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,640
Speaker 4: He wants this woman who's a jewel in his eyes.

821
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 3: And you know, he eventually gives her his West Point pin,

822
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:29,359
Speaker 3: and Mamie's like, yeah, no, Like I don't want the pin.

823
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:31,760
Speaker 3: I want your West Point ring because it's really big.

824
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 3: And at the same time, I want a big engagement ring.

825
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 3: And so Ike goes and borrows some money and he

826
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 3: buys her the ring she wants, and then he starts

827
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:45,040
Speaker 3: playing poker and playing poker against his peers in the military,

828
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 3: in the army, and he wins, and he wins, and

829
00:37:47,239 --> 00:37:49,520
Speaker 3: he pays off all the debt on the engagement ring

830
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 3: from poker. And I love that story about him because

831
00:37:54,719 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 3: it tells you a lot about how he learned how.

832
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 4: To manage his emotions. And money is emotion, right.

833
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:05,720
Speaker 3: I mean, you guys have a show about it that

834
00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 3: you wouldn't have a show if money wasn't so emotional rights.

835
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,520
Speaker 2: Right, if it was just math.

836
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:12,400
Speaker 4: Right, we don't read a book. It'd be like, Okay,

837
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:14,920
Speaker 4: we're all good. But you know, but it.

838
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:18,000
Speaker 3: Told me a lot about him that he felt one

839
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 3: of the biggest priorities in managing his finances was to

840
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 3: have a little bit of emotionlessness about it and be

841
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 3: more calculated in thinking through the opportunity set. And I really,

842
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,040
Speaker 3: anybody's listening, I would really encourage you to think about that.

843
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 3: And it's not lost to me that a lot of

844
00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 3: presidents play poker, you know. Richard Nixon was a good

845
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 3: poker player in World War Two, saved about eight grand

846
00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:45,920
Speaker 3: doing it, you know. And even Obama's a good poker player.

847
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 3: This is not uncommon today presidents and poker, but it's

848
00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 3: a lot about calculating risk and managing your emotions.

849
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 2: When it comes to investing. I mean, you can't grow

850
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 2: your investments without taking risk. It's just inherent and putting

851
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 2: your money in the market, and I think that's just

852
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:04,640
Speaker 2: one of the traits that a lot of the presidents

853
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:06,759
Speaker 2: and body Megan. We've got more to get to, maybe

854
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,080
Speaker 2: a couple more lessons about what it is that we

855
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 2: can learn from presidents and how it is that they

856
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:13,239
Speaker 2: handle their money. We'll get to those right after this.

857
00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:23,319
Speaker 1: We're back from the break and we're still talking about

858
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: presidential money lessons with Megan Gorman. So many fascinating ones,

859
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,880
Speaker 1: so much stuff I had no idea about until I

860
00:39:30,920 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: read your book, Meghan, and I'm so glad to hear

861
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 1: even more color about some of those stories. But during

862
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: the break you mentioned you have a question for us,

863
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: Is that right?

864
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

865
00:39:38,600 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, So I'm always curious who's each of your favorite presidents?

866
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:45,560
Speaker 2: Oh so I would have to go with John Adams,

867
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,640
Speaker 2: mainly because I did a report on him in like

868
00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:50,959
Speaker 2: fifth grade, and so some of the things you learned

869
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:52,719
Speaker 2: as a young child, they just, I don't know, they

870
00:39:52,719 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: stick with you. Yeah, what about you? Joel I'm going

871
00:39:54,640 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 2: to say.

872
00:39:55,040 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to say Lincoln, and I know that's kind

873
00:39:57,000 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 1: of the stock answer, but every book I read about him,

874
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: The Team of Rivals with Thris Karnes good Win such

875
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,800
Speaker 1: a good book. I read another one recently kind of about.

876
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 2: What was it called.

877
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 1: I want to say it was Eric Erickson's book or

878
00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,640
Speaker 1: something about kind of the lead up to the Civil War.

879
00:40:11,640 --> 00:40:13,319
Speaker 1: It doesn't even really talk about the Civil War at all,

880
00:40:13,520 --> 00:40:15,480
Speaker 1: just the lead up to it, and just hit how

881
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 1: he reacted in the face of kind of growing uncertainty

882
00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: in the country, And I just have so much respect

883
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: for him as an individal. He seems like a singular

884
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: individual for a specifically difficult time.

885
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,200
Speaker 2: I will modify my answer, though, because I'm reminded Megan

886
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 2: of how after reading your book and learning more about JFK,

887
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:33,960
Speaker 2: I was really fascinated with his story, just because of

888
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 2: the fact, like him coming from money, but then him

889
00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:40,239
Speaker 2: also being incredibly frugal when it came to like, was

890
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 2: it JFK where he would ask the folks in the

891
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:45,160
Speaker 2: White House to not pop the additional bottle of champagne

892
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:47,879
Speaker 2: until yes, Yes, That's what I say to my kids

893
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,439
Speaker 2: when they're like popping like Seltzer's, or we're opening another

894
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,080
Speaker 2: thing of milk. I'm just like, let's make sure that

895
00:40:52,160 --> 00:40:54,440
Speaker 2: we drink all of the one that's already open. You

896
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:55,279
Speaker 2: and jfk so much.

897
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 4: You know, it's fine. So with Lincoln, I totally get it.

898
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 3: As a side note, for the long time, United Airlines

899
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:04,440
Speaker 3: used to have Lincoln on the plane as one of

900
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 3: the movies, and every time I was on there and

901
00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 3: I was flying, I watch it because there was something

902
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: magical about him.

903
00:41:10,160 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 1: That's a Daniel d Lewis one. Right, It's so good,

904
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: so good.

905
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,600
Speaker 3: Yes, But you know you brought up John Adams, and

906
00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 3: he's an interesting one because I always find the interaction

907
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:23,640
Speaker 3: with John and Abigail really interesting because they address their

908
00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:27,560
Speaker 3: letters to each other of my dearest friend, and and

909
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 3: you think about like, you know, I'm married, and sometimes

910
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:31,560
Speaker 3: when I come home and I want to talk to

911
00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 3: my spouse about money, I'm not gonna be like, hey,

912
00:41:34,040 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 3: my dearest friend.

913
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 4: But I also think about it.

914
00:41:35,719 --> 00:41:37,800
Speaker 3: I'm like, you know, if you do say, hey, babe,

915
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 3: let's talk about money, it does lessen the tone. And

916
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 3: I think it's a clever thing between the two of them.

917
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 3: The Adams says, they always were framing things with that endearment,

918
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 3: and it's implied a connection and money and marriage.

919
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:51,719
Speaker 4: There needs to.

920
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 3: Be a connection. And it's funny that you bring up

921
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:56,839
Speaker 3: JFK because you know, I think in his marriage there

922
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 3: often was a disconnect about money.

923
00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 4: But there's a miscception.

924
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 3: About people with money, which is that they don't care

925
00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 3: and they just spend whatever.

926
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:06,479
Speaker 4: And I will tell you point blank, oh, they care.

927
00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:07,359
Speaker 4: They care.

928
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:09,920
Speaker 3: You know, it's interesting, you know, being in the industry,

929
00:42:10,040 --> 00:42:13,640
Speaker 3: the finance industry, you know what's always heartbreaking is that,

930
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 3: you know, most people don't push on fees, but the

931
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 3: high net worth they grind.

932
00:42:18,640 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 4: On fees constantly.

933
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 3: Right, So to take a tip for me, be like

934
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 3: a high net worth person and really push on fees.

935
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 3: As a side note, but you know JFK, he grew

936
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 3: up with a lot of money, a lot of access

937
00:42:31,840 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 3: to things. You know, everything came easy to him. I

938
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 3: feel like you know Barbara Streisen and the way they were,

939
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:38,160
Speaker 3: He's very much.

940
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:38,880
Speaker 4: Of that character.

941
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,359
Speaker 3: But he did care about money, and he did care

942
00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:47,440
Speaker 3: about making sure it wasn't squandered or spent frivolously. So

943
00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 3: one of the best things with JFK and trying to

944
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:51,719
Speaker 3: explore him. And this is true of all the libraries,

945
00:42:52,440 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 3: is they have oral histories of their friends and families, right,

946
00:42:57,120 --> 00:42:59,320
Speaker 3: and some of them are hilarious. Like on the Truman

947
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,600
Speaker 3: Library there was oral history from the farmer who lived

948
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,080
Speaker 3: next door and he was always like, I don't understand

949
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,720
Speaker 3: the Trumans. They should have just you know, raised cows

950
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,960
Speaker 3: for milk and everything, but they didn't like milking cows

951
00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 3: because they were sort of lazy.

952
00:43:10,680 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 4: It was just sort of random. I'm like, where does

953
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:12,919
Speaker 4: that come from?

954
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 3: But you know, with Kennedy, one of his oral histories

955
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,080
Speaker 3: was from a gentleman named lem Billings, which if you

956
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 3: know Kat John F. Kennedy's story, it's his best friend.

957
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,080
Speaker 3: And Lem Billings talks about when they were in college

958
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 3: they would go to New York. You know, two gugg

959
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:28,880
Speaker 3: looking guys in New York. They'd go to the Store Club,

960
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:32,000
Speaker 3: which was the place and you know, they would you know,

961
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,280
Speaker 3: store club did what we would call now like bottle service,

962
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:37,759
Speaker 3: very expensive, and they would go and the store Club

963
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 3: would have all these balloons on the ceiling that would

964
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:42,719
Speaker 3: drop down and the balloons would open and there would

965
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,560
Speaker 3: be like money, your prizes and there was in there.

966
00:43:45,719 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 4: Yeah, and it.

967
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 3: Was great and it was fun and it's sexy, but

968
00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:52,200
Speaker 3: it was expensive and you know, lem didn't have the money,

969
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 3: and there were just some of their other friends and.

970
00:43:53,960 --> 00:43:55,040
Speaker 4: So they would go.

971
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 3: They'd get a cocktail and then they'd say, hold our drink,

972
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,000
Speaker 3: and then they'd run down the street and slam back

973
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,759
Speaker 3: some beers, like a bunch of you know, twenty something

974
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 3: guys would and then they'd come back to the stort

975
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:05,840
Speaker 3: club to come talk.

976
00:44:05,719 --> 00:44:08,240
Speaker 4: To the girls. So, you know, very much.

977
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,320
Speaker 3: When I found that story, I really loved it because

978
00:44:11,360 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god, that could be happening today.

979
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 3: And it makes Kennedy so much more accessible right and personal.

980
00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:21,319
Speaker 3: And he's not just especially for us we were I mean,

981
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 3: you guys are younger than me. We were not around

982
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 3: when he was alive, and he always feels so hard

983
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: to access. He's always just in a film in that

984
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 3: technicolor of color. Yeah, And so I just love that

985
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 3: about him. And I was also struck by so much

986
00:44:34,719 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 3: in the fact that he also had some of the

987
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:41,719
Speaker 3: same struggles with Lincoln in terms of Jackie's spending. And

988
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 3: there's a story, you know, JFK when he was in office,

989
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:47,760
Speaker 3: whether he was a congressman, senator, president, he always donated

990
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,839
Speaker 3: his salary to charity. And and by the way, like

991
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,279
Speaker 3: if the charities he donated to, I think today he

992
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:58,160
Speaker 3: would probably get lit up by the press on because

993
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 3: you know, it was like the United Negro colleg Fund.

994
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 3: It was like the Boy Scouts like stuff like that.

995
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 3: And apparently Jackie never knew he was donating a salary.

996
00:45:07,120 --> 00:45:09,200
Speaker 3: She found out in nineteen sixty two because it was

997
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:14,719
Speaker 3: in the newspaper and she was unhappy. And you know,

998
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 3: Ben Bradley, the former Washington Post editor, tells a story

999
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:22,800
Speaker 3: of being there where JFK is like ranting and raving

1000
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 3: about where is all our money going?

1001
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 4: What are you doing? And she's sort of innocently sitting there.

1002
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 4: And you know, one of.

1003
00:45:30,040 --> 00:45:32,880
Speaker 3: The things that JFK ended up doing and his brother

1004
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 3: Robert had done it with Ethel was they had this

1005
00:45:36,239 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 3: accountant who helped them with some of the investigations the

1006
00:45:40,920 --> 00:45:45,240
Speaker 3: Attorney general investigations into the mob, and JFK and RFK

1007
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 3: hired this guy to look into their accounting to help

1008
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 3: them create budgets. So very wild stuff going on there,

1009
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 3: but again struggles we see today with a lot of

1010
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 3: people and their spouses and money in.

1011
00:45:58,280 --> 00:46:00,879
Speaker 1: Poor communication, which always upsets the apple heart.

1012
00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 2: Megan.

1013
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:04,520
Speaker 1: I'm curious, last question, what are the most odd ball

1014
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:07,040
Speaker 1: stories you heard about how presidents managed their money? Was

1015
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:09,120
Speaker 1: there anything that just stuck out to you is like

1016
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,640
Speaker 1: I've never seen that before, or that's mind blowing.

1017
00:46:11,760 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 3: So I found his story about Richard Nixon, and you know,

1018
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 3: I am Richard Nixon.

1019
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:17,560
Speaker 4: I always feel he's so awkward.

1020
00:46:17,400 --> 00:46:21,480
Speaker 3: Right, very very awkward man, and now he seems quite

1021
00:46:21,520 --> 00:46:24,080
Speaker 3: quaint compared to the political environment where in now that's true.

1022
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:25,280
Speaker 4: He grew up poor.

1023
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 3: His father came came west from Ohio, I believe, and

1024
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,600
Speaker 3: set up in Whittier, California, in Orange County, a gas

1025
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,720
Speaker 3: station and a fruit stand. And each of the Nixon

1026
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:39,919
Speaker 3: boys had a specialization, and Richards was citrus. His brother

1027
00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:42,319
Speaker 3: one brother was specialized in meat, the other vegetables, and

1028
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:46,000
Speaker 3: so on dairy. And you know, he goes to college

1029
00:46:46,480 --> 00:46:48,920
Speaker 3: in Whittier and he goes to Duke Law, and unlike

1030
00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:52,239
Speaker 3: his Duke Law classmates, he has to go home and

1031
00:46:52,280 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 3: he doesn't get any big offers for jobs. And he's

1032
00:46:54,239 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 3: in Wittier, he's working at a small law firm. He

1033
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,440
Speaker 3: bobbles the first case he has, almost gets suit. He

1034
00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:00,600
Speaker 3: actually gets dude for it.

1035
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 4: But he's in Whittier. He's trying to be a good guy,

1036
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:04,000
Speaker 4: and he ends up.

1037
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 3: Befriending some other senior guys in Whittier, like elder statesmen.

1038
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,359
Speaker 3: And one of these guys has this brilliant idea. It's

1039
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:15,319
Speaker 3: like nineteen thirty seven, nineteen thirty eight, wouldn't it have

1040
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 3: be amazing if across America everybody could wake up to

1041
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 3: a fresh glass of orange juice, freshly squeezed. Now we

1042
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:27,040
Speaker 3: take this for granted, but today we're all excited about AI.

1043
00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:29,800
Speaker 3: If we were sitting in the nineteen tens and twenties

1044
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:33,440
Speaker 3: and thirties, we would be very focused on food and

1045
00:47:33,480 --> 00:47:37,319
Speaker 3: the ability to freeze food and transport it around the nation.

1046
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,040
Speaker 4: Okay, like this was cutting edge technology, the AI of

1047
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 4: its day, the AI of its day. Right, you never know, right,

1048
00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 4: So again, Richard, this guy.

1049
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 3: Has this idea, We're going to freeze the juice, and

1050
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 3: I have this gelatine, this special thing. Will you run

1051
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 3: the company? And Nixon's so excited he sets the company up.

1052
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:00,400
Speaker 3: He's the attorney for the company. They make him the

1053
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 3: President's CEO, and he's trying to run this company and

1054
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 3: he just has no experience running a company.

1055
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:07,839
Speaker 4: He's done a.

1056
00:48:07,800 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: Big angel invest from these businessmen, and you know, the

1057
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,480
Speaker 3: company struggles, great idea, but they just can't get it

1058
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:18,880
Speaker 3: to succeed. And at one point they have a whole

1059
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,920
Speaker 3: box car of juice in the train yard in Los Angeles,

1060
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 3: and of course the juice inadvertently ferments because of the

1061
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 3: yeast and the alcohol, and the box car explodes and

1062
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 3: juice everywhere. And then of course what really does Nixon

1063
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:38,279
Speaker 3: in is he fails to do Social Security payments for

1064
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 3: his employees. He's not withholding Social Security, and the company

1065
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:46,759
Speaker 3: goes bust, and Nixon is ashamed and horrified because these

1066
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:49,000
Speaker 3: are people that he grew up with that he lost

1067
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 3: all their money for. And you know what's really you know,

1068
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:55,400
Speaker 3: so even though the company was supposed to go bankrupt,

1069
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 3: Nixon decides that he's going to personally assume the debt

1070
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,440
Speaker 3: and he keeps it a secret from his girlfriend, Pat Nixon.

1071
00:49:03,120 --> 00:49:06,320
Speaker 4: And you know, throughout the war, he.

1072
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:11,320
Speaker 3: Is basically sending money home to help pay down the debt,

1073
00:49:11,719 --> 00:49:13,960
Speaker 3: and he's writing in the letters to his law firm

1074
00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 3: secretary and I say secretary because that was the term

1075
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,080
Speaker 3: at the time. I know today we'd say ea, and

1076
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,799
Speaker 3: he would say, just make sure Pat doesn't know. And

1077
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 3: it took him years to pay off this debt and

1078
00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:26,600
Speaker 3: he never did anything again. And what I find fascinating

1079
00:49:26,640 --> 00:49:29,600
Speaker 3: is we're coming upon the sixty eighth anniversary of the

1080
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:32,960
Speaker 3: Checkers speech from nineteen fifty two when he was accused

1081
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:36,040
Speaker 3: of stealing money from the campaign and Eisenhower was going

1082
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 3: to drop him from the ticket. And he does this

1083
00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:42,480
Speaker 3: TV presentation to the America and he basically reads the

1084
00:49:42,560 --> 00:49:46,960
Speaker 3: United States his net worth and what you find is

1085
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 3: he really doesn't have a lot. He has a house

1086
00:49:48,880 --> 00:49:51,440
Speaker 3: and everything, but he really doesn't have a lot. And

1087
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 3: I think that the experience with the Orange Juice Company

1088
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,560
Speaker 3: and paying down that debt sort of held him back

1089
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 3: from making wealth. And it's almost like STUDI loans today.

1090
00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 3: He had this big burden over him.

1091
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 2: That's fascinating because like, on one hand, it's admirable, right,

1092
00:50:05,280 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 2: the fact that at the risk so yeah, and like

1093
00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:09,120
Speaker 2: he was just basically there for these folks that he

1094
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,080
Speaker 2: felt like he had personally let down. So maybe the

1095
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:13,759
Speaker 2: lesson to everyone out there is like, if you're starting

1096
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:15,360
Speaker 2: your own business, make sure you're paying faika.

1097
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 3: Yes, And I will tell you what I once had

1098
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,000
Speaker 3: a client want want to invest in something, And the

1099
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: pitch that they gave me is, you're really lucky you're

1100
00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 3: coming along now with this company.

1101
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 4: We failed at our first two companies. Now we know

1102
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:27,560
Speaker 4: how to do it.

1103
00:50:28,360 --> 00:50:30,160
Speaker 3: I got to say I laughed like crazy when they

1104
00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:32,040
Speaker 3: said that to me, because there is an element of

1105
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:33,879
Speaker 3: truth to that, and I think if Nixon had done

1106
00:50:33,920 --> 00:50:35,800
Speaker 3: another company, he may have succeeded.

1107
00:50:35,880 --> 00:50:36,239
Speaker 2: That's true.

1108
00:50:36,280 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, don't let that first failure like stop you from

1109
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,480
Speaker 1: trying again, which apparently it kind of did for Nixon. Megan,

1110
00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:43,279
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining us today on the show.

1111
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,279
Speaker 1: This was so fun. Where can our listeners find out

1112
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,360
Speaker 1: more about you and more about your new books.

1113
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 3: Sure you can find me at Allthepresidents Money dot Com

1114
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,360
Speaker 3: and the books available on Amazon, Barnes and Noble Books

1115
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:57,240
Speaker 3: a million and it's out on September twenty fourth, so come.

1116
00:50:57,160 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 4: Check it out.

1117
00:50:57,880 --> 00:50:59,799
Speaker 2: Awesome, Megan, thank you so much for joining us today.

1118
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me all right, Matt, that

1119
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:06,040
Speaker 1: was a unique conversation. Yes, having so much thinking, fun,

1120
00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:08,319
Speaker 1: We've never talked about that on the show before. Most

1121
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:10,680
Speaker 1: of those stories, I didn't know until I either heard

1122
00:51:10,719 --> 00:51:12,960
Speaker 1: Meghan talk about it just now or read it in

1123
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,760
Speaker 1: her new book. But yeah, what was your big takeaway

1124
00:51:15,800 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: from that combo?

1125
00:51:16,400 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 2: Well, I'll say I'm so glad we got to JFK.

1126
00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 2: You know, she shared the story about him and how

1127
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:23,640
Speaker 2: they would leave the fancy club go to the place

1128
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:25,839
Speaker 2: where they could get cheap beers. I don't think there's

1129
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 2: any story that resonates with how the money nearly as

1130
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:31,640
Speaker 2: much as that story. But I get him now, Yeah, exactly.

1131
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,239
Speaker 2: And it's not just the beer part, but the fact

1132
00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:35,640
Speaker 2: that he was being considerate of his friends that didn't

1133
00:51:35,680 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 2: have the same means that he did like is incredibly

1134
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:41,839
Speaker 2: endearing to me. But okay, so my big takeaway though

1135
00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:44,400
Speaker 2: is going to be, Gosh, it's gonna have to be

1136
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:48,000
Speaker 2: Jefferson his inability to delay gratification and think about his

1137
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,279
Speaker 2: future self. And we literally say that on the show

1138
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:52,359
Speaker 2: all the time. But Meghan framed it, well, what do

1139
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 2: you want your life to look like in ten, fifteen,

1140
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,160
Speaker 2: twenty years, How do you want to travel? How is

1141
00:51:57,200 --> 00:51:59,840
Speaker 2: it that you want to retire? Like making that connection

1142
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 2: between your future self and the actions you're taking today,

1143
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:05,440
Speaker 2: Like that is what brings about resolve and what causes

1144
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 2: us to follow through with the hard things that we

1145
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:10,279
Speaker 2: have to do today. It's for the not the pot

1146
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:12,480
Speaker 2: of gold at the end of the rainbow, but multiple

1147
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: pots of gold, like all along the path towards the

1148
00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 2: end of our lives, towards the environment.

1149
00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:18,080
Speaker 1: We talked about this briefly, but you would think someone

1150
00:52:18,080 --> 00:52:19,960
Speaker 1: as smart as him would be able to figure out

1151
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:23,920
Speaker 1: personal finance. But there's no disconnect between sometimes your ability

1152
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: to articulate beliefs or be an incredible prodigious writer, or

1153
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 1: be a leader of people, in your ability to manage

1154
00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:32,760
Speaker 1: personal finances. They are not the same. They don't necessarily

1155
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: overlap different skill sets. Yeah, what was your big takeaway?

1156
00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:35,319
Speaker 2: Though?

1157
00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 1: I think my big takeaway is and just thinking about

1158
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,360
Speaker 1: this holistically. We tend to put presidents on a pedestal,

1159
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:46,200
Speaker 1: especially presidents from further off in history. Maybe not the

1160
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:48,920
Speaker 1: ones from recent history because we know more about them.

1161
00:52:49,400 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: Social media didn't exist back at the time of Lincoln, right,

1162
00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:55,799
Speaker 1: But I love getting to see the human side, the foibles,

1163
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,680
Speaker 1: the mess ups, the mistakes side of some of these

1164
00:52:58,719 --> 00:53:01,239
Speaker 1: presidents because it shows that, yeah, they are in so

1165
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 1: many ways like us.

1166
00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:03,279
Speaker 2: We talked about the.

1167
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:06,960
Speaker 1: Anxiety that a lot of these presidents exhibited, whether they

1168
00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,759
Speaker 1: were fruglos all get out and came from nothing, or

1169
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,920
Speaker 1: whether they came from money. I mean, those things that

1170
00:53:12,960 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 1: are common to you and I, Matt, you and me,

1171
00:53:15,719 --> 00:53:17,440
Speaker 1: but also to all of our listeners in how we

1172
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: think about and worry about money were common to people

1173
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,040
Speaker 1: of who achieved an elevated position, in fact, one of

1174
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: the most powerful positions in the world.

1175
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:27,120
Speaker 2: So yeah, I don't know.

1176
00:53:27,160 --> 00:53:30,239
Speaker 1: I guess I just appreciated that that forest viewpoint that

1177
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: the president's hey, in some ways at least, they're just

1178
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:33,319
Speaker 1: like us.

1179
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:36,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. So okay, let's mention the beer. It's funny

1180
00:53:36,120 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: because she was talking about the end there Richard Nixon

1181
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,120
Speaker 2: and the orange juice explosion out there in California. But

1182
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:46,719
Speaker 2: we enjoyed Julius by Treehouse Brewing, which was sent to

1183
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 2: us by Michael. Thanks again, Michael for sending some beers

1184
00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:53,080
Speaker 2: our way. This is a hazy Julius has got orange

1185
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:56,480
Speaker 2: juice connotations, like written all over it's an orange label

1186
00:53:56,840 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 2: looked like orange juice in the glass. What were your thoughts.

1187
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: This was sister's to the mac, but also well rounded.

1188
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:04,319
Speaker 1: And this is one of those beer beers mat that

1189
00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:07,000
Speaker 1: has tons of hype, kind of like Lincoln's presidency. People

1190
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,480
Speaker 1: are like, oh, he's the best president ever, and I

1191
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:11,120
Speaker 1: tend to agree with him, but I've done my research,

1192
00:54:11,200 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: like I know that he's my favorite president. I'm not

1193
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: just like go riding everyone else's coattails. But this beer

1194
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:18,719
Speaker 1: similarly has a lot of hype, and I wanted to

1195
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:19,479
Speaker 1: see does it live.

1196
00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:23,720
Speaker 2: Up to the hype. It totally does. This was delicious. Yeah, okay,

1197
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,520
Speaker 2: So the only asterix here is this is a special

1198
00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,919
Speaker 2: edition of Julius. I think it's so it's JJJ Julius. Yeah,

1199
00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,120
Speaker 2: it's a third anniversary version, I think. Yeah, so I

1200
00:54:34,200 --> 00:54:34,520
Speaker 2: think this.

1201
00:54:34,520 --> 00:54:37,160
Speaker 1: Is a special version of the special beer Judge Julius.

1202
00:54:37,239 --> 00:54:40,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. Still very good. But this one is super creamy, hazy,

1203
00:54:40,400 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 2: had all those hot flavors going on, amazingly citrusy, and

1204
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,120
Speaker 2: I'm glad that you and I got to enjoy this

1205
00:54:45,160 --> 00:54:45,520
Speaker 2: one today.

1206
00:54:45,520 --> 00:54:47,680
Speaker 1: And I know this brewery has a cult following and

1207
00:54:47,719 --> 00:54:49,960
Speaker 1: it's probably really hard to get a beer of this

1208
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:52,920
Speaker 1: caliber from Treehouse, so true, massive, Thanks to you, Michael,

1209
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,919
Speaker 1: presenting this on our way. We really appreciate it. All right, Matt,

1210
00:54:55,960 --> 00:54:57,799
Speaker 1: that's gonna do it. For this episode, we'll put links

1211
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,000
Speaker 1: to similar stuff we mentioned up on our show. Note

1212
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 1: said how to money dot com, including a link to

1213
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,439
Speaker 1: Mega's new book. That's right, So until next time, best

1214
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:06,359
Speaker 1: friends Out, Best Friends Out,