1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:31,360 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. Thank you so much for 3 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 1: tuning in now. It is no secret that this, this show, 4 00:00:37,159 --> 00:00:40,800 Speaker 1: which we very much enjoy making, is not just a 5 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,839 Speaker 1: bunch of fun for us, it's also literally our jobs, 6 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:49,080 Speaker 1: which means we deal with some very strange legal situations. 7 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: We're going somewhere with this. My name is Ben, My 8 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: name is no Ben. Have you ever heard of the 9 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: band Negative Land? Yeah? I think so. Yeah, what do 10 00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:58,400 Speaker 1: they do? They have a song called copyright Infringement is 11 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,800 Speaker 1: your best entertainment value? Maybe it's not a song, but 12 00:01:00,840 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: it's definitely a slogan of theirs. I used to have 13 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 1: a T shirt. But they were notorious for uncleared samples 14 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: that piste people off quite a lot. They made an 15 00:01:09,880 --> 00:01:12,760 Speaker 1: album called You two. On the cover of the album 16 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:14,840 Speaker 1: and has the letter you and the numeral two and 17 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:17,360 Speaker 1: then Negative Land very small at the bottom, and they 18 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:20,200 Speaker 1: were sued by the band You two. Um. But this 19 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: actual album contained clips of famous radio DJ case caysum 20 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:27,679 Speaker 1: um these outtakes where he's doing a dedication to a 21 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,720 Speaker 1: song for someone's dead dog. Not to be confused with 22 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:35,400 Speaker 1: super producer Casey Pegram. That's right, Casey Pegram. Are you 23 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,640 Speaker 1: familiar with the letter you and the numeral two? I 24 00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 1: am indeed, yeah. And the dog's name is Fluffy. And 25 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:42,680 Speaker 1: you hear him getting riled up in between takes where 26 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: he's like, these guys are from England and who gives 27 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 1: a you know, Casey Casum and his non hearing him 28 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 1: in his non jovial kind of worst was a lot 29 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:54,560 Speaker 1: of fun. But the copyright infringement is a big part 30 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:58,160 Speaker 1: of what we do, not infringement specifically, but avoiding being 31 00:01:58,200 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 1: sued for infringements. Shall we say? Yeah? So a few 32 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: a few years ago, I made a rookie mistake on 33 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:09,320 Speaker 1: an episode of car Stuff with my good pal. I write, 34 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:13,080 Speaker 1: I Scott Benjamin Uh and we sang a snatch of 35 00:02:13,240 --> 00:02:18,120 Speaker 1: the birthday song on the air. Now, the birthday song, 36 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,839 Speaker 1: it's exactly the song you're thinking of, is a cop 37 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 1: It has copyright, It has legal protection, which is why 38 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: you never hear it on sitcoms, for instance, or even 39 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 1: high quality television shows like Breaking Bad or something like that. 40 00:02:35,000 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: You'll hear, you'll hear something else. It's because you have 41 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:43,240 Speaker 1: to legally pay someone to use that music, and nowadays 42 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:48,000 Speaker 1: copyright law is something that we associate more with the 43 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,040 Speaker 1: modern age. And I'm saying modern age as in like 44 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: the last two hundred years, you know. But today's episode 45 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 1: is about a much older, very vision of a copyright scrap. 46 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 1: And no, it's not about the mouse and how the 47 00:03:06,040 --> 00:03:12,239 Speaker 1: mouse affects copyright law. Yeah, uh, this is about it. 48 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: This is about an entirely different story and and it's 49 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,520 Speaker 1: pretty old. I was surprised by how long ago this occurred, 50 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,239 Speaker 1: nor I was too ben But in order to talk 51 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: about historic copyright law, we have to first discuss something 52 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 1: called the Statute of ann which was passed in seventeen 53 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 1: ten in Great Britain now the United Kingdom Um. And 54 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 1: before this statute was passed, publishers had an absolute monopoly. 55 00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,119 Speaker 1: But the Statute of anne Um did what very much 56 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: what the idea of like a you know, the public 57 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: domain kind of does so twenty one years of publishing 58 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: rights for the copyright holder. And the idea was to 59 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:58,040 Speaker 1: promote the printing of new material. But the idea of 60 00:03:58,080 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 1: copyright has existed way before even this historic copyright law 61 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:08,600 Speaker 1: around five sixty a d. We have a story that 62 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: actually involves a sort of a mini war, a skirmish, 63 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: I guess you could say, based around copyright um and 64 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: it all had to do with the ownership of particular 65 00:04:20,400 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: book of Psalms or a psalter known as the Cathatch, 66 00:04:24,920 --> 00:04:29,880 Speaker 1: which is one of the oldest surviving handwritten manuscripts in Ireland. 67 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: And this beef was between two saints, canonized monks of 68 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:39,400 Speaker 1: the Catholic Church in Ireland. St. Columba and St. Finian. 69 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: That's right nowadays and even back during the days of 70 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: the statute of an copyright infringement will land you in court, 71 00:04:48,839 --> 00:04:52,559 Speaker 1: You'll have to pay fines and fees. You probably won't 72 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:56,240 Speaker 1: go to jail, you probably won't be physically injured. In 73 00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 1: this case, thousands of people would die as St. Phinn 74 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:04,440 Speaker 1: Ian and St. Colombo went head to head and it 75 00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:08,839 Speaker 1: was all over the ownership of a copy of that 76 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:13,719 Speaker 1: that psalter that you mentioned earlier. Knowl now, this Irish pronunciation, 77 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:15,680 Speaker 1: it's a little tricky for us because we do not 78 00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: speak Gaelic ourselves. It's spelled c A t h A 79 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:25,560 Speaker 1: c h k katha. Yeah, it was like we heard, well, 80 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 1: let's let's just let's let the computer talk. This is 81 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 1: from a phrase concad k. Here we go concaid concadka. 82 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: It's at The reason this book is important is that 83 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:49,520 Speaker 1: today it is the oldest surviving manuscript written in Ireland. 84 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:54,080 Speaker 1: It is attributed to St Colomba. So the guy we 85 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:59,360 Speaker 1: call Saint Colombo now was born calm Kill or colomb 86 00:05:59,440 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: Kill in about five twenty one. He had a lot 87 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:04,480 Speaker 1: of names to like. One of them was call Um 88 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,480 Speaker 1: mcphelan mc Fergus, which I I love. It's a lot 89 00:06:07,520 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: of fergus. It's a very lilting, gentle thing to say. 90 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:14,760 Speaker 1: And Sill was added to his first name because he 91 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:18,080 Speaker 1: spent so much time as a kid in the local church. 92 00:06:18,160 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: The Gaelic word for churches sill spelled c I l 93 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,920 Speaker 1: l E. That's right, and calm sil or kill was 94 00:06:24,960 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: it is actually translated to church dove in Gaelic. So 95 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,440 Speaker 1: he was born in Donegal, Ireland, and he was a 96 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 1: descendant of Clan O'Donnell, a royal descendant in fact. And 97 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 1: we'll just referred to him as St Columba from here 98 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: on out because that's easier to say. Uh. He spent 99 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 1: most of his life literally with his nose in books, 100 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 1: studying in monastic schools in early Christian Ireland, and he 101 00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,640 Speaker 1: became part of a pretty important crew, the twelve Disciples 102 00:06:51,640 --> 00:06:55,720 Speaker 1: of Ireland, who were twelve very very learned gentleman who 103 00:06:55,720 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 1: studied under UH Saint Finnian himself. Um. He also came 104 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: a monk eventually and was a priest. Ah, there we go. 105 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: Player two has entered the game. Could you tell us 106 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:10,520 Speaker 1: a little bit about St. Finian? Yes, so Sint Finian 107 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: of Clonard is indeed player too, also known as kluane 108 00:07:15,840 --> 00:07:18,040 Speaker 1: erard E r A I R D couldn't find that 109 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,600 Speaker 1: one on four of a or Finian or finn on 110 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:25,040 Speaker 1: nine UM. And he was one of the earliest monastic 111 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: saints of Ireland. He lived from four seventy to five 112 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: forty nine. So again he was this very important teacher 113 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 1: over this group of a very influential UH monks and 114 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,520 Speaker 1: scholars in Ireland. He would have been much older than 115 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:41,840 Speaker 1: them at the time um of in question of the 116 00:07:41,880 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: story UM. He is thought to have been born in Mischel, 117 00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:50,720 Speaker 1: County Carlo UM. And he was himself placed under the 118 00:07:50,760 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: care of another monk when he was a wee lad 119 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: named St. Fourth Cairn Um and that is the gentleman 120 00:07:57,520 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: who taught him the ways of the Lord Um in 121 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: Wales actually probably also taught him to read. Yeah, of course, 122 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: and that was a big deal because these manuscripts that 123 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: we're talking about, and the whole notion of copyright very 124 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 1: much hinges on this um. Thing we take for granted 125 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: today is the ability to read, and you had to 126 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:20,640 Speaker 1: be studying under some very high level you know, uh 127 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: scholars in order to have that ability. It was a 128 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: special skill, you know, if we're just being off the cuff. 129 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,120 Speaker 1: It was kind of like being able to fly a 130 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,520 Speaker 1: hot air balloon. You might know someone who could read, 131 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: or know someone who knows someone, but you probably wouldn't 132 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 1: be reading yourself. Finny and eventually kind of solidified his 133 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 1: legacy by founding something called the Clonard Abbey Um and 134 00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: that is where the twelve Apostles of Ireland studied under 135 00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 1: him in Meath, Ireland, Sinc. Colombo was an honor student 136 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:01,480 Speaker 1: in the world of the seminary. He was constantly praying. 137 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:05,840 Speaker 1: Not when I say constantly praying, I'm not being hyperbolic. 138 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: He was always praying or writing. This guy wrote three 139 00:09:10,840 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 1: hundred books over the course of his life and when 140 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 1: we say rights, we also mean original works, and we 141 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 1: mean transcribing existing works, which was which was something that 142 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: quite a few people did in in this industry. He 143 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:33,040 Speaker 1: was leading what some authors have called the book digitization 144 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: of his day. At Duro. He and his team of 145 00:09:36,480 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: monks copied every single sacred text they could get their 146 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: hand on. And something strange happened. Around five sixty A. D. 147 00:09:47,440 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: Columba and his mentor Finian came at Odds. You see, 148 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,920 Speaker 1: Klimpa had acquired a new psalter, a book of psalms, 149 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,760 Speaker 1: and he copied it. And he said, okay, I've copied it. 150 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,439 Speaker 1: I'm gonna keep my copy of the work. And St. 151 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: Finnian said, oh no, no, no, no, no, no no, no, no no, no, 152 00:10:04,520 --> 00:10:09,560 Speaker 1: my friend, I don't think you can do that. It 153 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 1: belonged to him in the first place. And Columbus said, 154 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 1: why why can't I do this? The argument goes all 155 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: the way up to the king. The dispute eventually leads 156 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:26,199 Speaker 1: to something I will woefully mispronounce the Battle of c 157 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: U L d r E I m h n E 158 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:34,720 Speaker 1: the Battle of Cold Drayman. So here's how it all 159 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: went down. St. Columba copies the psalter st Finian says, 160 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: you can't do that, and of course we should mention 161 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 1: at this time these guys aren't saints. They are holy men, 162 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,080 Speaker 1: but they have not been canonized beatified. So on, Yeah, 163 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: you don't have a refer to a person that's alive 164 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,640 Speaker 1: as a saint, right That's that's that's that's pretty exclusively 165 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,400 Speaker 1: a posthumous thing, not officially. So they take this argument 166 00:10:57,440 --> 00:11:01,240 Speaker 1: to the King and Columbus as it belongs to me 167 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,560 Speaker 1: because I copied it. Finnian says, it belongs to me 168 00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: because I own the original book. He couldn't have made 169 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: a copy without my book, therefore I should have both 170 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: of them. And in a Shamalan plot twist, the King 171 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: gives this following judgment to every cow belongs her calth, 172 00:11:19,240 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: therefore to every book belongs its copy. That's not what 173 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 1: I was expecting. That doesn't really jibe with the modern day, 174 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: you know. Uh. Columba says, well, I disagree with that, 175 00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:34,839 Speaker 1: and he doesn't walk away and kick rocks. Instead, he 176 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:41,560 Speaker 1: instigates a rebellion against the king. So imagine going to 177 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: a court, whatever kind of whatever kind of court case 178 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,199 Speaker 1: you might be involved in, something that is not concerning 179 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,199 Speaker 1: violence or anything. It's it's an intellectual property I P 180 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,240 Speaker 1: issue and then getting so angry about what the judge 181 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 1: decrees that you decide to overthrow the country, which is 182 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,439 Speaker 1: which is what he attempted to do. He did successfully 183 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: get a clan together to try to overthrow the king. 184 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,000 Speaker 1: It's pretty interesting and actually there were a few other 185 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: little things thrown in the mix that led to to 186 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: this this series of events. Yeah, Finnian said he didn't 187 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 1: give permission right for it to be copied. Not only 188 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: did he not give permission, like he exactly he they 189 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,000 Speaker 1: were living under the same roof of the time. And um, 190 00:12:23,040 --> 00:12:24,960 Speaker 1: it's a little interesting, and it wouldn't really have the 191 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: details as to why he didn't ask for permission, because 192 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:30,679 Speaker 1: he would have taken an awful long time to transcribe this, 193 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: because we've actually heard that some accounts that it is 194 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:38,840 Speaker 1: actually a Gaelic translation of the Bible, the entire Bible. 195 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: So to do that by hand, he would have taken 196 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: him ages, and he had to do it at night 197 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: without this this person's knowledge. Uh so I'm a little 198 00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:49,719 Speaker 1: confused as to why he didn't just ask. Maybe the 199 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:51,520 Speaker 1: guy was just a real pill as you would say, 200 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:53,600 Speaker 1: with his property, and he's like, no, it's mine. What's 201 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,040 Speaker 1: mine is mine, you can't have it. But I thought 202 00:12:56,040 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 1: their whole thing, their whole goal, was to make these 203 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:03,360 Speaker 1: texts available more broadly. So I'm confused as to why 204 00:13:03,440 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: Finian was being such a such a jerk about the 205 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: right so proslytized to spread the word of God. But 206 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: even before this beef happened, there was a beef between 207 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: between Columba himself and the king because he gave refuge 208 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: to an escape political prisoner and um then the king 209 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: Diarmud actually went against their established laws of sanctuary, at 210 00:13:30,720 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: least their customs, and he had the escape ee captured 211 00:13:35,320 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: and executed, and then put Columba himself under house arrest, 212 00:13:40,440 --> 00:13:45,560 Speaker 1: at which point Columba tricked the guards, escaped and went 213 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:49,960 Speaker 1: back to his hometown in tier Cornal, where he then 214 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 1: heard that the king was actually pursuing him quick point there. Though, 215 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 1: this idea of tricking guards and escaping doesn't make a 216 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,480 Speaker 1: lot of sense if you think about it, I think 217 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:02,080 Speaker 1: there was something more to the story. I think it 218 00:14:02,160 --> 00:14:04,959 Speaker 1: was bribery. It happens a lot even in the modern 219 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,679 Speaker 1: day when you hear about people escaping in uh, you know, 220 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:13,640 Speaker 1: in a cell or the uh maybe a dodgy, chaotic country, 221 00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 1: that's true. But the idea of a little bit more 222 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: of like a capery, kind of like escape, maybe a 223 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: disguise of some sort. It's a lot more fun to 224 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: picture than just like slipping the garden, you know, um 225 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: some some coin. And this is all wrapped up in 226 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: the beef with the copied text as well. This was 227 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:31,720 Speaker 1: like the that was kind of the straw that broke 228 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 1: the camel's back. I guess it was the pretext. This 229 00:14:34,160 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: text was the pretext for the war. The battle rather, 230 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,000 Speaker 1: and this battle, which occurs in five hundred six D, 231 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: leads to according to sources, you could ballpark it at 232 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:52,560 Speaker 1: up to three thousand deaths. It's not said explicitly who 233 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:56,000 Speaker 1: won the battle, but here's the thing. It was Columba 234 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,240 Speaker 1: who got punished for it. So I feel like we 235 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: can safely that the king won that skirmish, and people 236 00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: were deciding what they would do to punish Columba even 237 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: talked about excommunicating him, which was a huge deal. Instead, 238 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: they let him stay a part of the faith and 239 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:19,720 Speaker 1: he was forced to leave Ireland and he was given 240 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: the task to convert as many people to Christianity as 241 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: had died on the day of that battle, so up 242 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:30,840 Speaker 1: to three thousand people if he wanted to properly pay 243 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 1: his penance. Yeah, he took this quite seriously. Um. And 244 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: he took off from Ireland and settled on the Isle 245 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: of Iona, off the west coast of Scotland, the mainland 246 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:45,680 Speaker 1: of Scotland. And there he set up and he set 247 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 1: himself up a monastery. And you may be familiar, you 248 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,200 Speaker 1: may that may ring a bell the Isle of Iona, 249 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:55,520 Speaker 1: because that is where many of of Scotland's kings were buried, 250 00:15:55,560 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: including potentially Macbeth. So he had twelve power traveling companions 251 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,680 Speaker 1: with him. Uh. And he settled in five sixty three 252 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,560 Speaker 1: and began the work of putting together this monastery and 253 00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:21,080 Speaker 1: converting um folks to Christianity. So Iona becomes the center 254 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:26,360 Speaker 1: of Columba's second act, his his redemption story, right, his 255 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: redemption song, if we want to quote Marley. He works 256 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: tirelessly teaching the Holy Word, the Gospel. He goes all 257 00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:40,400 Speaker 1: across Scotland attempting to convert the northern Pictish people. One 258 00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,640 Speaker 1: legend comes out of his adventures and that's that he 259 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:48,680 Speaker 1: actually met Nessie, the locked Ness monster, and scared it 260 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: away by making the sign of the Cross as the 261 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: creature approached. His career was not over. He went on 262 00:16:57,640 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: to greatness. He became a Roman cath clergyman, and he 263 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:08,840 Speaker 1: actually contributed to the most famous ancient Irish manuscript, the 264 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:12,560 Speaker 1: Book of Kells, which you can go see today at Trinity. 265 00:17:12,600 --> 00:17:16,000 Speaker 1: It's also a really delightful children's animated film. It's true, 266 00:17:16,600 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 1: but even that was not enough to get this stain 267 00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: of copyright beef off of his record, off of his CV. 268 00:17:25,080 --> 00:17:28,480 Speaker 1: He returned to his native land just one more time 269 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: before he died, and he passed away on June nine 270 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,520 Speaker 1: in Iona, which he had become quite fond of. I mean, 271 00:17:36,560 --> 00:17:38,680 Speaker 1: like he he definitely had made this his second home. 272 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: And it sounds to me like he didn't live a 273 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:44,560 Speaker 1: life of exile and shame. I mean, he went on 274 00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:49,600 Speaker 1: to do really great works and became a very revered 275 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:54,120 Speaker 1: figure in the history of Roman Catholicism. Right yeah, And 276 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:56,639 Speaker 1: he was sort of a proponent of what we would 277 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: call now copy left. Have you heard of this? No 278 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,959 Speaker 1: coppy left is this arrangement where software or creative works 279 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: can be used, modified, distributed freely on the condition that 280 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 1: anything created by it is bound by the same condition, 281 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think that's a great 282 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: way to pursue innovation. And I also do want to 283 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,359 Speaker 1: mention one thing about St. Columba. Alright, So I'm really 284 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:26,000 Speaker 1: into patron saints, right, I'm fascinated by the idea. I 285 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,600 Speaker 1: want to know your favorite patron saint, especially their patron 286 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: of something obscure. St. Columba is one of the three 287 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:37,159 Speaker 1: patron saints of Ireland. We all know the most famous one, St. Patrick, right, 288 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,920 Speaker 1: but he's also the patron saint of Dairy, the town 289 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,520 Speaker 1: d E r r y. Not like milk and cheese. No, no, no, 290 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: he's not that cool floods, book binders, poets and Scotland. 291 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: What about St Finian, you may ask, He is the 292 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:59,600 Speaker 1: patron of the Diocese of Meath. I would say that 293 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: um um came out ahead there, and that's what you 294 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: get for bow guarding texts, you know, and being a 295 00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,920 Speaker 1: jerk about letting people copy your stuff. You know, I'd 296 00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,400 Speaker 1: say that, uh, generosity is a very important um thing 297 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 1: when it comes to sharing books, you know. I mean, Ben, 298 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: you are a very very well known book lender. You know, 299 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,800 Speaker 1: you love for people to experience things that you yourself 300 00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: have enjoyed and found culturally enriching. And I think that's 301 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: a very important thing when it comes to this stuff. So, 302 00:19:29,240 --> 00:19:31,640 Speaker 1: you know, be on the right side of history. Let 303 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,720 Speaker 1: people borrow books, right be the library you wish to 304 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:39,480 Speaker 1: see in the world. To paraphrase Guti. Actually that that 305 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,440 Speaker 1: actually worked out. And uh, hey, oh you know we 306 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,960 Speaker 1: haven't said it yet. We've got a birthday month coming 307 00:19:48,040 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: up for the three of us as well as our 308 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: Powell Matt Fredericks, so wild all of us. Yeah, this 309 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:55,760 Speaker 1: is that we're in the midst of it right now. 310 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: Um Casey myself, you, Ben and Matt all are our 311 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:06,320 Speaker 1: le those roor and leos? What get out? Sorry, well, 312 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:10,160 Speaker 1: I'm I'm more month oriented. I don't see a lot 313 00:20:10,440 --> 00:20:14,520 Speaker 1: of leoistic traits. But also a full disclosure, one of 314 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: my first freelance writing gigs was writing a horoscope column 315 00:20:18,720 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: and the editor hired me because I said I didn't 316 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,640 Speaker 1: think there was much to it and that it would 317 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: be easy to write vague horoscopes. But I got out 318 00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 1: of it and I had I have a lot of 319 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,640 Speaker 1: respect for people who do believe it as a sort 320 00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,719 Speaker 1: of psychological evaluation. But I don't know. I don't know 321 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: if you could look at the four of us and say, well, 322 00:20:39,640 --> 00:20:42,119 Speaker 1: we have a lot in common. We're human, right, we 323 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: have the same number of limbs. That's I don't know. 324 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 1: Personality wise, though, I've always found I've observed that there 325 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 1: are some pretty interesting traits that you can associate with 326 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:55,480 Speaker 1: people's personalities that are you know, predicted by astrology. But 327 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,880 Speaker 1: you know, it's that confirmation bias thing that that always 328 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:01,320 Speaker 1: uh throws a wrench into the right or what if 329 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,160 Speaker 1: we're messing with people's personalities from the day that they 330 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,240 Speaker 1: can understand a language by telling them that's their personality. 331 00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:11,399 Speaker 1: I don't know about all that. I I've always been 332 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,639 Speaker 1: pretty fascinated by it and found some stuff that was 333 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:17,160 Speaker 1: pretty interesting for me. But you know, we welcome all 334 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: perspectives when it comes to everything. Uh. And here's an 335 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:22,800 Speaker 1: interesting little tidbit to wrap up on. In nineteen fifty seven, 336 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:25,880 Speaker 1: there was an archaeologist in Britain named Charles Thomas who 337 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 1: uh excavated this wooden hut on the Aisle of Iona 338 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:33,040 Speaker 1: and believed, without any way to prove it that it 339 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 1: belonged to St. Columba Um and only just recently, in 340 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: two thousand and seventeen, a team of historians belonging to 341 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,119 Speaker 1: Historic Environment Scotland did radio carbon dating on some of 342 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,119 Speaker 1: the samples that were found in ninety seven during that excavation, 343 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:53,399 Speaker 1: and they found pieces of something called hazel charcoal that 344 00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 1: they were able to date back a fifteen hundred years 345 00:21:56,760 --> 00:22:00,560 Speaker 1: to a time when Columba was absolutely in thick of 346 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: his Iona days. Um, so there you go. So he did, 347 00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: he did live there, he did, and those radio carbon 348 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:11,119 Speaker 1: dated the site back about fifteen hundred years to a 349 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,159 Speaker 1: time when Colombo was absolutely living there. So this definitely 350 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:15,639 Speaker 1: would have been as Hut, and this would have been 351 00:22:15,640 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: the time where he was spreading Christianity to the Pictish 352 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,600 Speaker 1: people of the Scottish Aisles, So that would have been 353 00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:26,440 Speaker 1: more of a Celtic polytheistic religion, almost almost akin to 354 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 1: something we referred to as paganism. Get Celtic poly theism 355 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:37,119 Speaker 1: probably often depicted as druids or something in popular mass media. 356 00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:40,280 Speaker 1: But I think it's always a wonderful and inspiring thing 357 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: when we are able to connect these ancient stories with 358 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:50,000 Speaker 1: true physical artifacts. Do a little bit of object journalism, 359 00:22:50,240 --> 00:22:52,520 Speaker 1: which I have to talk about later. I'm really into 360 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,199 Speaker 1: this thing now. I will see in the defense in 361 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,960 Speaker 1: the defense of horoscopes, astrology, and other sorts of psycholog 362 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,760 Speaker 1: tragical batteries. For anyone who may be concerned that I'm 363 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,280 Speaker 1: pooh pooing it or throwing out the baby with the 364 00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 1: heavenly bathwater. I do want to say one thing that's 365 00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,359 Speaker 1: been creepy for most of my life. Always ended up 366 00:23:14,440 --> 00:23:17,640 Speaker 1: dating aquarians. I don't know why. I seriously think there 367 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: was maybe one exception in middle school. Aquarius is I 368 00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,760 Speaker 1: think it's aquarians? Isn't what I guess? So yeah, I 369 00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: never thought about that. And did you ever hear about that? Uh? 370 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: That astrological sign that was found? It's a story for 371 00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 1: another day. Casey, do you remember that one? I don't 372 00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: remember this now. Oh my gosh, you guys, it's a 373 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,719 Speaker 1: true story, but we don't have time for it today. 374 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,639 Speaker 1: Thank you so much for tuning in. What are your 375 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:48,440 Speaker 1: favorite patron saints and what are they? Patrons of bonus 376 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:52,200 Speaker 1: points if it's super obscure, and hey, nol, what would 377 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,920 Speaker 1: you be the patron saint of? Probably procrastination? Patron saint 378 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 1: of procrastination. I like it. I like it. Um, Casey, 379 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: I'm not gonna put you on the spot because I 380 00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:05,520 Speaker 1: know you hate that, So let's just call you the 381 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:07,919 Speaker 1: patron saying of not being put on the spot for today. 382 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 1: How's that? So there you go? I love that? Uh 383 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,679 Speaker 1: and what would you be the patron saying of Let 384 00:24:13,720 --> 00:24:16,719 Speaker 1: us know? We're on Facebook, we're on Instagram, we're on Twitter. 385 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 1: You can catch me on my personal Instagram at Ben 386 00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: Bolan or on Twitter where I'm at Ben Bolan hs W. 387 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,680 Speaker 1: I mainly just rocked the Instagram at how now Noel Brown. 388 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 1: Another fun place to get in touches through our Facebook 389 00:24:29,200 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: group Ridiculous Historians. You can do that by searching for 390 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians on Facebook and you just have to answer 391 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 1: a simple question. Name one of the members of the show. 392 00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:38,120 Speaker 1: It could be me, It could be Ben, It could 393 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,520 Speaker 1: be super Richer, Casey Pagram, could be Jonathan Strickland the 394 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:42,800 Speaker 1: quis There could be Christopher Acios. Could just be a 395 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: fun little joker upun Yeah, if you, I mean, honestly, 396 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: do you make me laugh? You're in right absolutely hey, 397 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 1: And do us a slid, write us a review on 398 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 1: the podcast platform of your choice. Um, but doing it 399 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:57,399 Speaker 1: through Apple podcast is always super helpful way of helping 400 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,080 Speaker 1: people discover the show. Yeah, every week one of our 401 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:07,119 Speaker 1: bosses walked through the office dragging a heavy headsman's axe 402 00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,440 Speaker 1: and uh, if we if we don't get good reviews, 403 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,120 Speaker 1: sometimes that ax swings. It's true. I mean, not not 404 00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:17,120 Speaker 1: like at us in a dangerous way. Hr would never 405 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,760 Speaker 1: allow that, just more like kind of in an intimidating thing. 406 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,680 Speaker 1: He sort of drags it across the ground with sort 407 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:24,080 Speaker 1: of a screen kind of sound and occasionally a whish. 408 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: You know. But luckily we haven't actually been injured by 409 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: this giant axe yet. But you can make sure that 410 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:32,240 Speaker 1: definitely never happens by writing those iTunes reviews. Yes, so 411 00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,359 Speaker 1: thanks to you for listening. Thanks to our super producer 412 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:40,240 Speaker 1: Casey Pegram. Thanks to Jonathan Strickland. That rapscallion, that's scad, 413 00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:43,679 Speaker 1: That scoundrel we call the Whister. Thanks to Alex Williams 414 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: who composed our theme, research associates Gabe Lucier and Ryan Barrish. 415 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:51,600 Speaker 1: Thanks to Christophrocios here always in spirit, and thanks to 416 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: you Ben Bowling for for being a checker shirt wearing friend. 417 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,280 Speaker 1: Thanks to you, Noel Brown, and thanks to you say 418 00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:00,879 Speaker 1: Colombo for looking out for book blogers. We'll see you 419 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 1: next time, folks. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, 420 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,439 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 421 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:15,119 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.