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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to It Could Happen Here podcast about

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Speaker 1: how the world is falling apart and sometimes about how

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Speaker 1: people are putting it back together. What is today? It's me.

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Speaker 1: I'm James, if you haven't worked that out yet, and

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by screen. Say hi, Shrien, Hi, This is Sharian,

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Speaker 1: Thank you, and I'm joined today by Vicente Calderon. He's

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Speaker 1: a freelance journalist and the proprietor publisher of Tijuana Press

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Speaker 1: dot com and he's covered the situation on the Grand

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Speaker 1: Tijuana for a very long time. It's an excellent work

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Speaker 1: and we've sent you what you people know about you.

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Speaker 1: Nice to have you here. Thank you for the invitation,

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Speaker 1: and in advance, I have to apologize for my English

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Speaker 1: because this is a picture on the street and the

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Speaker 1: Tijuana streets. It's excellent. Take a picture in the world

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Speaker 1: kind of English. I'm a really originally a psychologist. I

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Speaker 1: graduated from the School of psychology here, but I only

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Speaker 1: worked for a couple of years and then I got

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Speaker 1: stuck with journalism and I have been here for more

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Speaker 1: than thirty years by now. I've been doing journalism from

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Speaker 1: radio and then I moved to television, and then I

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Speaker 1: went to the US to the work with Spanish language

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Speaker 1: media twice in l A and then I came back

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Speaker 1: and now I'm I'm doing online or or digital medium journalism,

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Speaker 1: so to speak. So I'm a native here and again

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Speaker 1: I was just supposed to be working this for a whilt,

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Speaker 1: and still I got old enough to look like a psychologist.

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Speaker 1: I just got God on the on the um addiction

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Speaker 1: for journalism. Yeah, I understand. Yeah, Yeah, that's fascinating. All right.

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Speaker 1: So the reason we to talk to you today is

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Speaker 1: that we have seen a dramatic increase in violence in

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Speaker 1: Tijuana since Friday. Right, we're recording this on the Tuesday,

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Speaker 1: the sixteenth of August, so if people listening to it

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Speaker 1: later don't know, but can you explain a little bit

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Speaker 1: of what happened over the weekend in Tijuana and then

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Speaker 1: across Mexico as well. Well. The thing began on Friday

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Speaker 1: here in Mexicali and Tijuana. Megali is the capital of

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Speaker 1: the state of Baja California, which is in the northwestern

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Speaker 1: side the end of the US Mexico border. Um, so

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Speaker 1: we began seeing people burning cars on the road. They

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Speaker 1: were just ordering people from public transportation to get off

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Speaker 1: the vehicle. Uh not in a very so to speak

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Speaker 1: threatening matter kind of way, because they said, well, the

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Speaker 1: problem is that we do, but you have to get

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Speaker 1: off because otherwise because when we're going to burn this bus,

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Speaker 1: and and nobody was actually no, it was really heard intentionally.

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Speaker 1: We have just in Tijuana, we have about fifteen cases

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Speaker 1: like that. Was mainly public transportations vehicles or some cases frogs,

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Speaker 1: cargo trugs, or private vehicles. Most of it were public

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Speaker 1: transportation vehicles, but people were working, and we're moving people

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Speaker 1: from their homes to their works or to want to

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Speaker 1: run one errand to on other side. So we began

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Speaker 1: to see that this was in a very limited space

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Speaker 1: of time happening not only in in Tijuana and in Mexicali,

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Speaker 1: but also and five out of seven cities of Baja California.

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Speaker 1: Nobody was claiming responsibility, but it looks like it was

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Speaker 1: a coordinated effort in the basically the main cities of

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Speaker 1: the state. We were very surprised because even though we

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Speaker 1: have been dealing with drug violence for many decades, by

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Speaker 1: now we were seen something who looks like the narco

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Speaker 1: locales or blockades of the streets with drug traffickers, which

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Speaker 1: are unfortunately very common in other cities like mon Terrey,

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Speaker 1: for example, recently in Jalisco on the Pacific coasts in

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Speaker 1: the central part of Mexico, but not here in Tijuana.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I know it sounds rare or strange for

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Speaker 1: many people who know one of our his bad reputation,

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Speaker 1: but now we never had cases like this before. That's

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Speaker 1: why it was so surprising at the end. That was

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Speaker 1: on Friday, and then immediately the local authorities began to

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Speaker 1: display not only police from different different agencies or also

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Speaker 1: soldiers who were coincidentally so to speak. We're here in

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Speaker 1: big numbers and large numbers because there's a really h

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Speaker 1: big push to put out more soldiers to help with

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Speaker 1: public safety and Mexico. Not everybody is pleased with that

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Speaker 1: because they say that Mexico is becoming a militarized country

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Speaker 1: and it shouldn't be, because we have to We're trying

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Speaker 1: to be a democracy, and in a democracy, is not

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Speaker 1: the military or the army in charge of so much responsibility.

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Speaker 1: But that's something that has been changing specifically with this

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Speaker 1: new federal administration with the president, and so they sent

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Speaker 1: out all of the soldiers and police officers and things

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Speaker 1: basically diminished. But but that time in about less and

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Speaker 1: in about less than two hours, people was already really scared. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the news spread and social media and people began worrying. Also,

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Speaker 1: they began seeing that the public transportation was not enough

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Speaker 1: because many were just came to a halt. I mean,

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Speaker 1: and not just the public transportation, the officials of the city,

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Speaker 1: but all the digital platform like uber, didy or other services.

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Speaker 1: We're just worried that it might be the next one.

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Speaker 1: So if I stay on the roads, am I going

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Speaker 1: to be the target of these guys. We were not

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Speaker 1: sure what was going on. We I guess everything one

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Speaker 1: has like an idea that this was coming or linked

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Speaker 1: to drug trafficking, but we were not sure at that time.

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Speaker 1: So um in a couple of hours, every we didn't

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Speaker 1: see more of these cases. But but at that time

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Speaker 1: the city was really disrupted, so they began closing. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the first thing who affected was public transportation. So people

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Speaker 1: was stranded without with no ways to go to back home.

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Speaker 1: And some schools were counseling classes and since the students

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Speaker 1: were not able to find transportation, some offered places to

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Speaker 1: stay to spend the night on the schools. Also that

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Speaker 1: happened in in Um with other companies with the Makiladora plants,

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Speaker 1: the manufacturing plants that are very popular. There's thousands of

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Speaker 1: people here and in Tijuana who were there also in medically,

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Speaker 1: but here also they in some cases have to open

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Speaker 1: spaces so they can spend the night there. And we

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Speaker 1: went out and was a lot of people stranded with

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Speaker 1: no place, with no way to move from where they

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Speaker 1: were when this begun. Yeah, I saw even like Kelly

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Speaker 1: Max that the supermarket was classed right like they closed

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Speaker 1: early and they announced that the next day they will

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Speaker 1: hold their operations, that they will not open so they

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Speaker 1: will not put in jeopardy to the safety of their workers.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and they that during Friday, we didn't know

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Speaker 1: what really what was going on, how severe was this happening.

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Speaker 1: And just keep on mind that on Friday, Friday was

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Speaker 1: the end of the of a week of their re

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Speaker 1: violent scenes in different cities. It began in Guadalajara when

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Speaker 1: they were the army was trying to capture a couple

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Speaker 1: of drug lords or chief of cells from the uh Kalis,

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Speaker 1: the Alisca New Generation cartel, which is the quote unquote

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Speaker 1: newest and the strongest and most rapidly expand the drug

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Speaker 1: organization in Mexico and the problems there, the dynamic was

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Speaker 1: very very different. Again in Tijuana, even after the weekend,

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Speaker 1: nobody was killed. Just one person in Mexicali got injured

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Speaker 1: due to burns when while they were burning his truck,

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Speaker 1: but apparently nothing major. So in the case of the

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Speaker 1: World House a bit different. There were at gunpoint pulling

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Speaker 1: people families out of their private vehicles and also bosses.

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Speaker 1: And there there they were really actually located roads in

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Speaker 1: an effort to disrupt the operation from the soldiers trying

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Speaker 1: to capture their their bosses, and so the body's well

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Speaker 1: we're way more strong sort of speak there. And after

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Speaker 1: that it moved to one of another state where well

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Speaker 1: there's high presence of Cartel Alisco new generation, and two

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Speaker 1: days later we saw the worst case into that Quaries

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Speaker 1: across from the Passo Texas that what is also another

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Speaker 1: border town or border city should say that has been

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Speaker 1: dealing with a lot of drug trafficking caves and and

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Speaker 1: the things was terribly worse there. I mean they were

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Speaker 1: there killing civilians randomly. They got to convene its stores

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Speaker 1: like think about your seven eleven. The counter party is

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Speaker 1: called also it's a very uh big change in uh.

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Speaker 1: In one of these cases they just went in open

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Speaker 1: fire to the cashier and they killed him. In other cases,

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Speaker 1: a pregnant woman got killed and another one since they

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Speaker 1: burned this these places. The one who there's two persons

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Speaker 1: who died due to association because they got were cut up.

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Speaker 1: They were not able to flee the place when this

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Speaker 1: guys were showing up there. Many of these guys were

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Speaker 1: also yelling or screaming, um, hooray for the Caliskon and

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Speaker 1: Racian boss is called or Sea, I can't remember. He's

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Speaker 1: not Mencho Mencho Mencho his nickname Mencho or Saghara is

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Speaker 1: the leader of Calisco New Generation. And they were just

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Speaker 1: praising him and just saying that there were people from

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Speaker 1: Mencho and this they were just celebrating him as they

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Speaker 1: were doing all this destruction and terrorize and people. So

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Speaker 1: the worst part was in Sis. Sadly, I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that this was not bad, but just we have to

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Speaker 1: put it on perspective and fortunately here suladly for the

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Speaker 1: people's Fortunately for the people here, nobody was injuring those

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Speaker 1: activities on Friday, that diminished on Saturday, but we got

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Speaker 1: more cases on Sunday night and mexically and we actually

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Speaker 1: have four about four cases on the first and the

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Speaker 1: last hours of Monday in Ensenada. We are still seeing

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Speaker 1: if all of these have been related to the same

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Speaker 1: effort due to organize crime or are just copycats because unfortunately,

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Speaker 1: unfortunately that also is happening. Some of the cases in

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Speaker 1: vehicality that happened on Sunday night were according to the

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Speaker 1: chief of police there just copycasts. Were just stay gonna

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Speaker 1: vents of the situation. I see, Well, that's that's interesting

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Speaker 1: because until someone takes responsibility, even if they do, all

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Speaker 1: the talks about like what cartels are one, that's just

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Speaker 1: like in theory, right because there you don't know who's

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Speaker 1: doing well, Am I understanding correctly? Well, yes, because it's

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Speaker 1: it's not like when a terrorist organization claimed responsibility for

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Speaker 1: a bombing um in the Middle East, for example. But

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Speaker 1: here the thing is now the authorities are saying that

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Speaker 1: it's well, was not just one, but different organizations they blame,

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Speaker 1: and mainly on Jalisco New Generation because it's one of

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Speaker 1: the along with this in a cartel more broadly extended

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Speaker 1: in the state different states, and in this particular case

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Speaker 1: they can link it. In the case of Jalisco and

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Speaker 1: Guanajuato because they got information of these two bosses getting

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Speaker 1: into a meeting and that's why they reacted. In In

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Speaker 1: the case of Gas was different because everything began there

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Speaker 1: without the few within inmates of the local jail, where

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Speaker 1: there are clearly two factions from the the two main

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Speaker 1: organisms stations who have been controlling turf in the parties. Here,

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Speaker 1: we were not sure because unfortunately we have not just

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Speaker 1: one or two. We have a three drug cartels or

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Speaker 1: trafficing organization who has been acting or the linking uh

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Speaker 1: for the several years right now, which is the relistan

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Speaker 1: new generation, the one we talked about, which is the

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Speaker 1: relatively newest organization. They sin Ala Cartel, who has been

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Speaker 1: from the cradle of drug traffic in Mexico steps in Alloa,

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Speaker 1: expanding the rocks that I'm sure they know. A chapel

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Speaker 1: from the Narco series very popular now has been the

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Speaker 1: public enemy number one according to Chicago for about eight

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Speaker 1: years ago and now in a jail in New York.

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Speaker 1: But there they're suns and their associates are still operating

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Speaker 1: their trafficing organization along different routes in Mexico and Baha,

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Speaker 1: California is one of those routes where they have a

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Speaker 1: lot of strong presence. And also the Ariano Felix organization,

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Speaker 1: the so called Tijuana cartel that is very popular, has

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Speaker 1: its own UM series on Netflix as part of Narcos Mexico.

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Speaker 1: This is the relevance of these kids who who grow

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Speaker 1: up as as criminals at the border between Tijuana and

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Speaker 1: San Diego. So we nobody has claimed responsibility UM as

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Speaker 1: in other cases, but I think it's it's it's safe

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Speaker 1: to know that these are the main suspects in the

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Speaker 1: case of Tiquana. It's also the possibility that the field

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Speaker 1: between these three organizations UM was an excuse for this

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Speaker 1: level of violence. I mean, everybody is trying to be

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Speaker 1: the strong girls force. So they challenged themselves not on

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Speaker 1: this not only in the streets, but on social media.

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Speaker 1: And this was also a way to challenge the authorities

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Speaker 1: because even though the authorities reacted quickly kind of subdue

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Speaker 1: more or frustrated more events, they were able to burn

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Speaker 1: fifteen cars at the end of the week. And we're

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Speaker 1: thirty six in different areas, in different cities. So that

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Speaker 1: is not something that you can say not authorities. The

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Speaker 1: military chief of the country saying, well with in Tijuana

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Speaker 1: didn't attempted against so the civilians, well they did. They

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Speaker 1: didn't kill them, but they burned their property and they

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Speaker 1: disrupted the whole operation. So we are also seeing very

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Speaker 1: carefully the way the local, the local and national authorities

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Speaker 1: are reacting because we were lucky now, but this is

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Speaker 1: probably will happen again if there's not a really strong

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Speaker 1: risk on from an intelligent response from the authorities. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry if I'm sorry if this is silly, but

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Speaker 1: is there any deeper meeting to it being specifically public transportation?

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Speaker 1: Like it just seems so specific to like target how

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Speaker 1: civilians are like transporting themselves. It's just like a show

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Speaker 1: of power to be like we're going to make everyone

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Speaker 1: freeze or there is there any deeper meaning to like

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Speaker 1: what they're targeting, not that I understand so far. I

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Speaker 1: mean for me right now is because as they did, uh,

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Speaker 1: they were successful and bringing the city to a halt.

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Speaker 1: I mean we went out and just think this was

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Speaker 1: a Friday summer night in revolution who has seen a

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Speaker 1: renaissance the last for the last ten years. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of people coming from the U. S Side and

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Speaker 1: from Mexico to enjoy the gastronomy, local the bars, the

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Speaker 1: party scene, what's dead. The only people we were found

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Speaker 1: we found there Friday night was UM workers that were

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Speaker 1: not able to find an Uber or the uber was

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Speaker 1: I talked to some of the Uber drivers that they did.

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Speaker 1: The drivers to me it went from one to seven.

250
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Speaker 1: I mean something will cause you ten dollars were costing

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Speaker 1: the press was now seven seventy due to the high

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Speaker 1: demand and poor offer. So no, I don't find another

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Speaker 1: another explanations so far, so far with the information that

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Speaker 1: we have until now, um that could explain. But they

255
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Speaker 1: did reach a big impact with this relatively easy actions

256
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Speaker 1: after all these coordinator attacks. Yeah, it's probably worth mentioning

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Speaker 1: the context of in one of Goose months kids was

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Speaker 1: arrested and I believe dates around then, and there was

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Speaker 1: a huge, huge increase in violence immediately following that, right

260
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Speaker 1: and eventually Amblo the president gave the order to release him.

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Speaker 1: And oh that was yeah, there was My recent was

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Speaker 1: a video one of the main sons in in something

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Speaker 1: that we call the Kulia is the name of the city,

264
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Speaker 1: is the capital of the status Sinaloa. As we said,

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Speaker 1: I have family, My mother is from Sinaloa. And some

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Speaker 1: people from Sinaloa get offended when we said that it's

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Speaker 1: a cradle of drug trafficking in Mexico because most of

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Speaker 1: the power, the law, the drug laws come from from

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Speaker 1: from Sinaloa. But yeah, you're right, you're right. Uh, And

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Speaker 1: that's something that has become a big recurrent topic when

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Speaker 1: people criticize, especially the political opposition is the current president,

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Speaker 1: because they said, this is the origin of this kind

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Speaker 1: of demonstrations. So when when when the government wants to act. Now,

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Speaker 1: the criminals know that an effort, a coordinated effort to

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Speaker 1: get out on the streets and to show their muscle

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Speaker 1: could um make the government to think twice, to hold

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Speaker 1: their operation and to free in some cases these guys. Again,

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Speaker 1: in the case of Jalisco, they were on the way,

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Speaker 1: according to the official statement from the Mexican Army, to

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Speaker 1: try to capture these two leaders, but didn't happen. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the criminals get organized to blockade the actions of the authorities.

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Speaker 1: In the case of Tiquana, we were not we didn't

283
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Speaker 1: get to that point. Was more like there's also one

284
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Speaker 1: theory which says that the local chapter or to speak

285
00:19:43,880 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 1: of the carteli was just trying to replicate what happened there,

286
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Speaker 1: just to to to show the force, to demonstrate the

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Speaker 1: muscle as as a criminal organization here in Tijuana. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's basically the two theories that at this at this

289
00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,959
Speaker 1: between them and the other one is that, um, they

290
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,440
Speaker 1: were just replicating a little bit in a in a

291
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,920
Speaker 1: in a different dimension, so to speak, what happened in

292
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: just to tell them, you know, the same here, this

293
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: is what you're gonna be facing. And that was a

294
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 1: message for the authorities. Yeah, I saw a resident compared

295
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,439
Speaker 1: to what it was like in the early stages of COVID,

296
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Speaker 1: like how ghost town it was. And I mean, what

297
00:20:26,359 --> 00:20:28,280
Speaker 1: do you think about it? That's pretty powerful if a

298
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Speaker 1: cartel can have the impact of a pandemic, if not

299
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Speaker 1: more so, it's it's uh, it's terrifying. I can't imagine.

300
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 1: I think, what's worse when we were now when COVID

301
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Speaker 1: first begun in the lockdown and this will be too silly,

302
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,720
Speaker 1: but there's the red like districts that never sleeps. Here

303
00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:55,639
Speaker 1: we went to that particular horridor. Nobody was in the

304
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Speaker 1: main drag there. But it's a reality when we we

305
00:20:59,560 --> 00:21:01,679
Speaker 1: we just we went out and we got video of

306
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Speaker 1: this streets basically empty. Yeah, your video on your Twitter,

307
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Speaker 1: we'll we'll find a way to link to. It was incredible.

308
00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,960
Speaker 1: It was just like it's normally like the Strip in

309
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Speaker 1: Las Vegas or something, and it was just a ghost town.

310
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Speaker 1: Again on the people we found there was people looking

311
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: for transportation. Yeah, it's crazy. So there's been a massive,

312
00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,359
Speaker 1: at least show of state power in Tijuan in the

313
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,320
Speaker 1: last I don't know, four or five six months. Like

314
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: they're constantly rotating new troops in. They do the parades

315
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 1: with a big flag, and it's like to looking from

316
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,040
Speaker 1: the outside from a less informed perspective, it looks like

317
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 1: there are these various actors, right, and each of them

318
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 1: sort of flexes their muscles in a different way. And

319
00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 1: and is that relevant here? Has the army they discovered

320
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:55,880
Speaker 1: a tunnel if I remember correctly, have they done much

321
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,480
Speaker 1: else in Baja since I started these big deployments. That's

322
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 1: one of the main complaints of the locals organizations civil

323
00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:08,359
Speaker 1: or civilian organizations here because even though we have. I'm

324
00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: gonna I make some notes, and we have five thousand,

325
00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,800
Speaker 1: six hundred and sixty soldiers UM right now in the

326
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,680
Speaker 1: state of Baja California, most of them in Tijuana, who

327
00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:22,400
Speaker 1: have been deployed since August last year, which is when

328
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Speaker 1: the National Austriity Austrility of Peace as the government called it,

329
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:32,280
Speaker 1: began UM. But unfortunately, I can give an other statistics.

330
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Speaker 1: We have only just in Tijuana and the municipality of

331
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Speaker 1: Tijuana so far this year, almost one thousand, two hundred homicides.

332
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Speaker 1: I mean we as as a city, as a municipality,

333
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:51,919
Speaker 1: we have way more homicides than many Mexican states. This

334
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:53,880
Speaker 1: is the level of violence that we are dealing with

335
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,479
Speaker 1: in a daily basis. And and this is when you

336
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,640
Speaker 1: hear the authorities talking about a reduction on homicides, which

337
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 1: is true, probably true in terms of the numbers of statistics.

338
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 1: But still one thousand. We're we're a little bit past

339
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Speaker 1: half the year and we already passed one tho homside,

340
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Speaker 1: I mean when people get alarmed in Chicago is when

341
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 1: you are hitting. I remember a couple of years ago,

342
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: like five hundred and the whole year we have this

343
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: in three months and and and this is the kind

344
00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:32,680
Speaker 1: of problems that we're dealing with. But you have to

345
00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,800
Speaker 1: also keep it in mind. Last week the d o

346
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,000
Speaker 1: J of the US, the FBI, the d A, Customs

347
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:42,640
Speaker 1: and Border Protection have a gathering to announce that San

348
00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 1: Diego became the epics center for smuggling of Fentadel. Six

349
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,919
Speaker 1: of the seizures of Fentonel in all the nations occur

350
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: between Sanito, the main part of entry here in San

351
00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: Diego to Calexico, and there's there are six parts of

352
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 1: entry in this stretch of land and the end of

353
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Speaker 1: the border on the western end of the border. Well

354
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 1: these places is where more than half of the phantomel

355
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,760
Speaker 1: that is being smuggled to the US it's going through.

356
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: That will explain partly the level of biodies that we've

357
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:20,400
Speaker 1: been didn't and how even though there's good efforts by

358
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:24,840
Speaker 1: the local authorities, state and local authorities, I mean, even

359
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 1: given that there's cases of corruption, as in any other agency.

360
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: Um alwould say that we have great, very capable detectives

361
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: and police officers and Mexico but there but in many

362
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: cases there's no political will from their bosses to really

363
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: act on on and the on the benefited, benefiting the public.

364
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:49,760
Speaker 1: So this is the kind of build the problem world.

365
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,560
Speaker 1: You know, Fantai is now the most lucrative drug to

366
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,000
Speaker 1: to transport or traffic and between Mexico and the US,

367
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 1: even with all the problems that is cons in in

368
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:03,440
Speaker 1: the US with more than one and twenty thou people

369
00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 1: dying in the last year or overdoses linked to opioids.

370
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,439
Speaker 1: But also now we have a problem that is growing

371
00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:14,440
Speaker 1: with people dying with fantanyl overdose. Besides the fantany, the

372
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,399
Speaker 1: metal fantoming problem that also has been increasing the traffic

373
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: here and now we are seeing the comeback of some

374
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: drugs trafficking and deep and new levels like heroin and

375
00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: cocaine who came out of fashion for a while, but

376
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: I always doing a kind of a resurgence at least

377
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: in this corridor. Yeah, that's fascinating like that that there's

378
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: been an increase specifically coming through that Baja California area.

379
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,479
Speaker 1: Maybe then we should explain a little bit about these

380
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,760
Speaker 1: three actors, right they c J n G will call

381
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,199
Speaker 1: them the cut the Sinaloa and the Ariana Felix or

382
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: Tijuana Cartel. Can you explain a little bit about who

383
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 1: they are and where they sort of fit into this

384
00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:00,480
Speaker 1: where they come from maybe well I basically all come

385
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:06,240
Speaker 1: from the UH. People watching Netflix, Narcos and Netflix, they

386
00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: talk about this federation of cartels. Again everything the main

387
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 1: power was from the state of Sinaloa and between nineteen

388
00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: mid nineties n mid nineties when the rest of Felix

389
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: Gayarlo they established. They distribute the routes and one was

390
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: the one of the Pacific along the Pacific from Sinaloa

391
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:35,159
Speaker 1: to the along the Pacific, and they basically um cut

392
00:26:35,680 --> 00:26:38,720
Speaker 1: the country into different the main routes, and then you

393
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: have different organizations. Those organizations who used to be together

394
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 1: became a powerful house on their own, and that has

395
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 1: increased the violence from the nineties because now you have

396
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:56,240
Speaker 1: from the beginning the Adriano Felix who used to take

397
00:26:56,440 --> 00:27:01,359
Speaker 1: partners with the Chapel Uh and there are been in

398
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 1: disputes and feuds among them. So the main one is

399
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: was the main one and oldest is the Sinaloa cartel

400
00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:13,919
Speaker 1: had by the Chapo usman Uh and now is myel

401
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: el Mario Sambada, which is still a gentleman, gentleman around

402
00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: probably getting to their eighties I'm not quite sure, but

403
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:25,560
Speaker 1: but who has been on the run for many years

404
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: but relatively calm and with big investments and with the

405
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,840
Speaker 1: high presence here in Baha, California, with that faction of

406
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:35,440
Speaker 1: this in a low cartel, and there's in a local

407
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: there also when after the arrest of the Chapo is

408
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: it's run. And the other big faction for the sons

409
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 1: of Chapo Guzman Video and and the lost chapter, they

410
00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:53,919
Speaker 1: call it los Chapitos. There's like three three even Archivaldo

411
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 1: and I can't remember the name of the other one.

412
00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 1: So that's it's in a lot cartel with with presents,

413
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,040
Speaker 1: but mainly and then nothern part and really mainly basicly

414
00:28:03,200 --> 00:28:09,080
Speaker 1: basically uh, their thing is to manufacturing um medam phetomine

415
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:14,640
Speaker 1: and now fanelil and send it to the US. UM

416
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 1: then they are the Yellow Felix du organization who became

417
00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: as a result of that division, that distribution that according

418
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: to the most commonly known narrative about drug world, um

419
00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:33,920
Speaker 1: Felix dis tribe that after his arrest established themselves in Tijuana.

420
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,639
Speaker 1: They are from Sinaloa too, but they established themselves from

421
00:28:36,640 --> 00:28:39,680
Speaker 1: Tijuana in the actually in the eighties but at the

422
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 1: nineties they became powerful on its own and they due

423
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: to the proximity of San Diego and to the fact

424
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 1: that they missed mixed with many of the border lifestyle

425
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:56,320
Speaker 1: a lead of Tijuana. They changed the image of the

426
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 1: drug traffickers. They micor became more entrepreneurs and they wanted

427
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 1: to become the main the first Mexican cartel, Colombian pabulus

428
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:09,920
Speaker 1: of our style. According to the narrative, no, and they did.

429
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,600
Speaker 1: They became the nineties they were most one of the

430
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: most powerful drug organization in the world for the amount

431
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,360
Speaker 1: of not just marijuana cocaine that they were moving. I

432
00:29:21,360 --> 00:29:24,840
Speaker 1: mean they established relationships with Colombian and after a while,

433
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: Colombians were not trafficking in Mexico. They were just sending

434
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: the drug to the Mexicans. At the beginning, they were

435
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: Colombians were kind of leasing the routes in the Mexican

436
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 1: territory to send the drugs into the US. But then

437
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 1: when this division of a new commerce and the drug

438
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:46,320
Speaker 1: trade in Mexico, they decided and I think the Ariana

439
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: falls have some um something to do with that. They

440
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 1: want to go and get the drugs from Colombians in

441
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 1: the South and South America and bringing and just take

442
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: care of the whole thing, become their own curtel. And

443
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 1: then then Kalis another off offshoot is what you call

444
00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 1: it like a spinoff spinoff kind of another way, all

445
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,400
Speaker 1: the of the Salga because they used to have a

446
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:21,640
Speaker 1: presence in Guallahara and the different factions were killing each other,

447
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: changing loyalties and then began a force on their own

448
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 1: um after a big division between the beltran Leba group

449
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:36,040
Speaker 1: and the Nasal Coronal organization and they become their own

450
00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: cartain on the own. And and that's what according to

451
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: the d e A and and also Mexican authorities is

452
00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: expanding more rapidly in very short period of time and

453
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: then unfortunately have been moving not only to draw trafficing,

454
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: but there's many small groups that now are making their money.

455
00:30:57,440 --> 00:31:00,040
Speaker 1: And the whole way of the mafia, the cause A

456
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: Nostra was doing their money in New York in the

457
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: seventies or before, not that they were just extorting money

458
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:13,120
Speaker 1: out of local businesses, from a well established chain of

459
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: stores to a little tagistan on the corner. There's also

460
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: the trafficking of gasoline in Mexico and has been doubling,

461
00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: I mean anything that they once they get powerful, they

462
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: began to move to other activities. For example, in the

463
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 1: case of the anothetics, kick tapping wasn't a thing, let's say,

464
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 1: before the ninety before the the nineties in Baha, California,

465
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,560
Speaker 1: they were kidnapping people who owned who used to be

466
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,280
Speaker 1: there their associates. Is the the where's my money kind

467
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 1: of thing? You no like to think about good fellows

468
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 1: and and and they were killing a chonge there is

469
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,640
Speaker 1: everything among themselves. But later they began that they were

470
00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: were they were acting with a lot of impunity, that

471
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: they had a lot of cobs start this on their payroll,

472
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 1: so they began to move to other ways to earn money.

473
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: And that's what we have seen now that these expanding

474
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: this little as in Colombia used to go to baby cartels.

475
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:18,640
Speaker 1: We now have like a new chapters, smaller organization, not

476
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 1: as powerable, but as violent as as do what we do.

477
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask because I saw a lot of

478
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: these like supposedly like they come up on TikTok or

479
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 1: Facebook right there, these little announcements from the different cartels,

480
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,800
Speaker 1: and they tend to say, at least in the context

481
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: of California, that like, we don't want to disrupt ordinary

482
00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,479
Speaker 1: people are good people, good citizens of Oa, California, you know,

483
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: but we need you to stay in your homes this weekend, right,

484
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: things like that. But it obviously does have an impact

485
00:32:57,720 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 1: on the people who to doing what if they do

486
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: to run their business. And so I was wondering sort

487
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:09,080
Speaker 1: of how people get through these difficult times in Antijuan

488
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:12,840
Speaker 1: and California. Well, times are becoming more difficult because many

489
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 1: people believe this because the widespread possibility of disseminating these

490
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: messages now and you never know which ones are real, yes,

491
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: and which ones are not. Um. I mean, you guys

492
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,920
Speaker 1: have the same with the gangs, remember, like don't bling

493
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: your your headlines because the end the gang will start

494
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:37,360
Speaker 1: killing people left and right. Just take that on steroids

495
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,160
Speaker 1: now with social media and and now everybody with the

496
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:45,080
Speaker 1: phone that can get that messages. And that was that

497
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:47,840
Speaker 1: played a big role in what happened on Friday here

498
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: in Tiquana. They were recycling a video of three guys

499
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: video taping themselves in from of the Attorney General's office

500
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: in Tijuana. Says so Mantris here, we're gonna kill everybody

501
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,040
Speaker 1: and just being very loud and and and with a

502
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: lot of insults and trying to scare the uh everybody,

503
00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:15,320
Speaker 1: the rivals, but everybody else. So during the hours of Friday,

504
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: somebody began retweeting that when was at least a year

505
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: old b of them claiming that that they were they

506
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,480
Speaker 1: were over here. So some people think this all this

507
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 1: commotion happening, a lot of this cars burn. They didn't

508
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 1: know exactly what was going on. Some people began to

509
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 1: call in narco b locals that just scare more people.

510
00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: And then you see this, so the level of anxiety

511
00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:43,120
Speaker 1: increased significantly. You have to be very careful and there's

512
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 1: also you have to also keep in mind the political

513
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 1: feuds that we are seeing. What you are seeing between

514
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: some people loyal to Trump and the Real Comparty and

515
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:58,200
Speaker 1: some people that are against Trump. Is the same here

516
00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 1: with Morena and non MODERNA actors or people who likes

517
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,759
Speaker 1: the Brenda, which is the political party founded creative by

518
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:10,759
Speaker 1: the current president, are the ones who are against them

519
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:14,960
Speaker 1: and are very unhappy or angry with all these social policies.

520
00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: Um and and for example, we have here a television

521
00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,040
Speaker 1: station run owned by the former governor of Baja California,

522
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: who has is a very close friend of Andres Manuelope

523
00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 1: or the current president, who became a very powerful figure

524
00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:36,400
Speaker 1: and due to his proximity. Basically the current president revived

525
00:35:36,440 --> 00:35:39,360
Speaker 1: this gentleman, which by the way lives in San Diego

526
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 1: and Chula Vista in a big mansion because he exiled

527
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:49,400
Speaker 1: himself from about thirty years ago when he was associated

528
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 1: with the last p r I government, the pre the

529
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:57,280
Speaker 1: political polity run Mexican for the last for seven years

530
00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:01,360
Speaker 1: in a row. Uh, he was very close associate with

531
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:05,520
Speaker 1: he could Laba Morta, which was the the current governor

532
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: who didn't finish his his turn because the and then

533
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,480
Speaker 1: president of Mexico, Carlos Arina's accused him of corruption, so

534
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: he just removed him and this guy Himmonia, became a paria.

535
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 1: So the p AN the new power basically mark him

536
00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:32,279
Speaker 1: because also he has some previous suspicious relationships through the

537
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 1: baseball team here in Tejuana and from other endeavors that

538
00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 1: makes them looks like very close to the Ariana Phelix

539
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 1: U organization. The Ariana Phelix organization has been linked for

540
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,799
Speaker 1: many years with the last administration because they claimed that

541
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: that last pr renstrations is the one who basically opened

542
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:54,839
Speaker 1: the door for the Ariana Felix to establish him BA California.

543
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 1: So this is what we are seeing that that this messages, well,

544
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: now this guy we just left the office that they

545
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: just finished his governorship on December last year, so there's

546
00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: a new governor. But he also owns a television station.

547
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:17,600
Speaker 1: So he who is out criticizing the current governor, which

548
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: is why where the same political party. It was uh

549
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:29,160
Speaker 1: using some of these messages with no proof or no

550
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:33,360
Speaker 1: validity or very suspicious and he was saying in their

551
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: newscasts were saying, well, there's also this happening. There's the

552
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 1: threads and they know that this government is corrupt, and

553
00:37:40,920 --> 00:37:46,000
Speaker 1: they were just adding to the fire, and I mean

554
00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: as an analog, you know, the real fire, but to

555
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: the concern of the people. And in this term like

556
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 1: saying that all we're gonna start a lockdown and we'll

557
00:37:55,040 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: be to what's for talking expression for toka like the

558
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 1: you cannot go out, Yes martial martial will start at

559
00:38:07,719 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: six if we see you on the streets. When I

560
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: killed you. There was a message that that televiation station

561
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: was repeated once and again every day, So I was

562
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: just added to So all these all these new novelties

563
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:25,719
Speaker 1: sort of pig with the digital era are also creating

564
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,200
Speaker 1: bigger fires in the political spectrum and in a place

565
00:38:29,239 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 1: where you never know what exactly the line is between

566
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:36,719
Speaker 1: the criminals and the government. Yeah, I think it's a

567
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 1: very good thing to hide that. Actually this idea that

568
00:38:39,640 --> 00:38:43,120
Speaker 1: there's like distinct blocks, right like and then this supplies

569
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:44,880
Speaker 1: And I don't want to say, like this is a

570
00:38:44,920 --> 00:38:47,359
Speaker 1: Mexican thing, because it's not. This is a global thing,

571
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: but like that there's a distinct block between like crime

572
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:54,200
Speaker 1: and media that you consume and the government and the

573
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,680
Speaker 1: people that like working for the state, like like the

574
00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 1: the idea that these are very separate and that the

575
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,719
Speaker 1: world doesn't it doesn't apply here, and I don't think

576
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 1: we should say elsewhere either. Yeah, it's it's a problem.

577
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 1: He's becoming it's becoming worse and worse. No, because this

578
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,360
Speaker 1: faction now, this other arena, mean, we are seen it

579
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 1: here also with the official statements from the authorities. I

580
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: mean I was telling you earlier that they the military

581
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:25,760
Speaker 1: had the Secretary of the Military says, well, in Tijuana,

582
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,919
Speaker 1: they didn't went against the civilians, and the governor also

583
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: repeated that, so well here, fortunately they didn't affect that

584
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,680
Speaker 1: the life of the people. Of course, of course they did.

585
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: I mean, we were lucky they didn't kill anybody, but

586
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 1: but no, they did. And so you have to also

587
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:47,040
Speaker 1: be finding that propaganda from the government against the propaganda

588
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: from the criminal groups and the different political legal factions

589
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: in other quote unquote non state actors, just to put

590
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: it in a different context. So it's becoming very difficult.

591
00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, I always say, excuse me if I repeat this,

592
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: but honestly believe, I mean, there's always great investigators detectives

593
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:12,240
Speaker 1: in Mexico willing to put their lives on the line

594
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,640
Speaker 1: for the good of people, but it's not always in

595
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: the best conditions. And and this is like just the

596
00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,040
Speaker 1: character of traffic. Uh probably you were you guys were

597
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: very young when traffic came across. I mean, a very

598
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 1: popular movie which is about from the nineties and the

599
00:40:30,719 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: end of the night is probably Yeah, where where the

600
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: one of the three main characters is an honest Mexican

601
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: caps I. Fortunately I met several of the cases like that,

602
00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:47,920
Speaker 1: but some of them have been killed due to their honesty.

603
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,800
Speaker 1: But also others that learned to survive and play along

604
00:40:51,960 --> 00:40:55,040
Speaker 1: and try to do as much good as they can

605
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:01,600
Speaker 1: um within the circumstances they are dealing with. Yeah, I

606
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,759
Speaker 1: think talking of good investigators who are trying to heal

607
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 1: with difficult circumstances, maybe you should touch on the violence

608
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: against suppress that we've seen in back California and in

609
00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:18,040
Speaker 1: Mexico as a wholes. I mean you're comfortable talking about. Yes, yes, unfortunately,

610
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,759
Speaker 1: and this is terribly sad. A couple of hours ago,

611
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 1: we just learned that the one of the reporters who

612
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,360
Speaker 1: was reported missing in the neighbors in state of Sonora

613
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:34,160
Speaker 1: was being found dead. So we have another killing of

614
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,520
Speaker 1: a reporter. We also saw that the case of stare As,

615
00:41:38,560 --> 00:41:42,240
Speaker 1: they killed for employees of four workers of a radio

616
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: station broadcaster. Yeah, affailingly randomly apparently randomly Okay, but then

617
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:53,200
Speaker 1: I mean we I mean, depending on which told you

618
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 1: take your look too. Because there's like the official for

619
00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,280
Speaker 1: the government, federal government from the CPGA, the from needed

620
00:42:00,280 --> 00:42:05,680
Speaker 1: to protect journalists and or report other organizations. Bary is

621
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,879
Speaker 1: not that there's about ten or fifteen between I would

622
00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:14,600
Speaker 1: say ten or fourteen or fifteen journalists or media workers skilled.

623
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,600
Speaker 1: So far this year, we have two of those killings

624
00:42:17,640 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 1: happening here in Tijuana in in January. Um one of

625
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:24,960
Speaker 1: them them, I'm convinced by now that he was killed

626
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 1: for the leader of rog trafficking cell was operating in

627
00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:36,040
Speaker 1: the east side of the city, who wasn't pleased with

628
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,160
Speaker 1: some of the stories that one of the media outlets

629
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 1: his name is one of the media outists that Margharito

630
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:51,520
Speaker 1: was working too as a freelancer. Wash was pushing very

631
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:55,719
Speaker 1: revealing stories about the operation of the traffic or so

632
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:59,919
Speaker 1: he ordered and pay for some other people to kill

633
00:43:00,360 --> 00:43:05,600
Speaker 1: Margharito because he, and my humble opinion, was the weakest link,

634
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: because he was living on the same neighborhood that these

635
00:43:09,280 --> 00:43:13,479
Speaker 1: guys were operating, working the night shift. That is very

636
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:17,680
Speaker 1: common that only a few of them are left to

637
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:23,000
Speaker 1: to do that chief that beat uh. He was easily identifiable,

638
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:28,160
Speaker 1: identifiable for the crooks because Margarito will show up at

639
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: the crime scenes and in many of these cases you

640
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 1: have people who work for the same organization organize show

641
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 1: enough to make sure that the guy was really killed

642
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,959
Speaker 1: and who showed up and and I mean even when

643
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,920
Speaker 1: the killing is done, the criminals are still working the

644
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,960
Speaker 1: scene and in some cases we met with these guys,

645
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:54,840
Speaker 1: guys without knowing. I mean, these guys were were um

646
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: even willing to go to the funeral of Margharito. The

647
00:43:57,640 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: only reason they were not there is because they were

648
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: the approach is to a lot of military presence on

649
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 1: during the funeral. So I'm convinced that Margarito was killed

650
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,400
Speaker 1: due to his work as a as a photographer. UM.

651
00:44:11,440 --> 00:44:15,719
Speaker 1: In the other case of my friend all coworker, Lord

652
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 1: de Sando, I'm not sure what was the motive. In

653
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: both cases are two people in jail, but the procedure

654
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: is still on the beginning stages. We are not proved,

655
00:44:28,520 --> 00:44:30,959
Speaker 1: and the main thing is we don't know who order

656
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:34,400
Speaker 1: and pay for their killings. Well we know or I

657
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,680
Speaker 1: think I have a big suspicion about which one is

658
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 1: the guy who killed them. In the case of Margarito,

659
00:44:40,560 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: not in the case of Lords and the authorities, I'm

660
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:47,520
Speaker 1: not confident enough that they're gonna be able to solve

661
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,680
Speaker 1: the crime in this particular cases. The other one, there's

662
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:54,720
Speaker 1: two cases in Michigan, there's other cases and Tom lipas

663
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:57,560
Speaker 1: Uh I guess by now we have to count at

664
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,640
Speaker 1: least two or three and Sonora with the news that

665
00:45:00,719 --> 00:45:04,360
Speaker 1: we got today. So it's difficult. I mean, not everybody

666
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: is is risking their life when they're doing journalism in Mexico,

667
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 1: but you never know when the danger will jump against you.

668
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:19,320
Speaker 1: I have a always tell this story about a photographer

669
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: to what was called to cover a traffic accident my minority. No,

670
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: not Well. The problem is that the the guy who

671
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:31,960
Speaker 1: was involved in the traffic and the accident was a

672
00:45:32,040 --> 00:45:36,520
Speaker 1: drug blord, very a very well known operator, very dangerous operator,

673
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: and he kept taking pictures. Thanks to some of the officers,

674
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: firefighters and ladies who saw that he was being um

675
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:48,600
Speaker 1: treated not very naively, and the ladies that intervened, he

676
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 1: was able to get away. He had to live town

677
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 1: for a while. Uh, that's it. But that's the kind

678
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: of environment that we are dealing with. It is not

679
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,320
Speaker 1: that every story makes you put you in the injured,

680
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: but you never I mean, you can do a lot

681
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,240
Speaker 1: of You can be a reporter and not be on danger,

682
00:46:08,440 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 1: not being you don't get into subjects that are tricky.

683
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 1: You don't get too much in political corruption, and you

684
00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:17,520
Speaker 1: don't you get too much on on drug trafficking, on

685
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: kia and homicides. You're pretty much gonna be able to

686
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,960
Speaker 1: do fine. But but the promise sometimes if you're doing

687
00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,960
Speaker 1: a story none related, there may be some link to

688
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: put you in danger. And that's the situation. And unfortunately,

689
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:37,880
Speaker 1: the level of impunity and on crimes again journalists is

690
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,880
Speaker 1: even worse than the level of impunity of general civilians

691
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 1: in Mexico. I will say that journalists about ninety personal

692
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:52,040
Speaker 1: ninety eight percent and ninety eight percent for for for

693
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: case of journalists on civilians, So our case is worse.

694
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,279
Speaker 1: The possibility of somebody will be punished for kill in you,

695
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: it's it's very, very very say yeah, I'm sorry, that's terrible.

696
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's again, like you said, it's not

697
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: just a Mexican problem. You see in so many governments

698
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:24,919
Speaker 1: across the world where press our targeted specifically. Um, but yeah,

699
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,360
Speaker 1: and I appreciate your work even more knowing that the

700
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: percentage of cases are just violence against you, so against

701
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: you as a journalist is so high. It's very sad

702
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:44,560
Speaker 1: and it's very disencouraging. But I always, I mean, my

703
00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:49,160
Speaker 1: familyhood is not copy because I'm still working on Friday.

704
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,160
Speaker 1: They called me the one. They want me to stay

705
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,439
Speaker 1: at the office. They don't want me to get out.

706
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:58,359
Speaker 1: Um and I understand, I understand pepperab and it's one

707
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 1: of my mainscerns. But also on the other hand, it's uh,

708
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,279
Speaker 1: you know, this is important information, even when we are

709
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:10,520
Speaker 1: dealing with an avalanche of information that is not necessarily

710
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 1: well treated. We need to have good information so people

711
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:19,480
Speaker 1: will make good decisions. We are in a very small

712
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: joint democracy. We just began to make in roads on

713
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: electoral democracy. It's relatively recent. Began basically at the end

714
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:32,879
Speaker 1: of the nineties here in Baha, California, and has been

715
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 1: moving to the two thousands and now we are unfortunately

716
00:48:38,160 --> 00:48:41,520
Speaker 1: back back in many ways. But but now you can

717
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:46,359
Speaker 1: rely now on who is running the elections together. That

718
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: information was very important. Now we need to be also

719
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:55,080
Speaker 1: very make a lot of big efforts to explain people

720
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: that you can make progress. Mexico is making progress even

721
00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,279
Speaker 1: this and these dire conditions. But you have to pay

722
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: attention and also try to to learn where the information

723
00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: is coming from. That not all the media is the

724
00:49:11,400 --> 00:49:14,719
Speaker 1: same that we have. We come from a big tradition

725
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:20,480
Speaker 1: of going and control media. Now media control or subdue

726
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,760
Speaker 1: trafficking organizations, and in some cases both are linked and

727
00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: and working to give your trouble. And also there's a

728
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:34,960
Speaker 1: lot of press that has chosen to just go with

729
00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:39,320
Speaker 1: the prop and just live out of propaganda. And sometimes

730
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,280
Speaker 1: they do good things, like they go and give boys

731
00:49:42,320 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 1: to the people in the local community, so the the

732
00:49:45,600 --> 00:49:49,360
Speaker 1: water is re established or there's more um, there's no

733
00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 1: more need for to fix a park or to public transportation,

734
00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:56,440
Speaker 1: And they do do good. This is important. All the

735
00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 1: the job of the reporters is good, but in the

736
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,160
Speaker 1: in the bigger and some of the bigger problems, they

737
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,760
Speaker 1: tend to be on the side of the government because

738
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 1: the government found this way to give you a lot

739
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:11,920
Speaker 1: of public advertisement and to have you under their control.

740
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: And many reporters want to be good journalism with journalists,

741
00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:19,319
Speaker 1: but their editors of the owners of the companies are

742
00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:22,279
Speaker 1: not willing to rouse that easy way to get a

743
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:27,160
Speaker 1: lot of money from the government, and more easily than

744
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:31,359
Speaker 1: to start putting themselves on the risk, which implies when

745
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 1: you do heavily digging or criticizing the powers of being Yeah,

746
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: how how would someone know that they're getting accurate information?

747
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,240
Speaker 1: In that case, This applies to every country in the world.

748
00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:48,080
Speaker 1: You have to really be conscious and like seek out

749
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:50,719
Speaker 1: particular sources. But like in this case, what do you

750
00:50:50,719 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: recommend for people? I mean it's difficult. You're right, this

751
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 1: is a simple everywhere. But I guess the same recipe

752
00:50:57,480 --> 00:51:01,480
Speaker 1: works here. I mean, just double chaired, don't check their sources,

753
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:06,279
Speaker 1: try to compare several UM media outlets and to see

754
00:51:06,280 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 1: where it's reporting UM, whether each of them is reporting

755
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 1: UM the same way that you find the way they

756
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 1: are leaning in the US is the what you find here.

757
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: But the problem is the established media, the how do

758
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:28,879
Speaker 1: you call it um? The traditional media is becoming less

759
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: relevant because most of the main good journalism is done

760
00:51:33,160 --> 00:51:37,879
Speaker 1: by small revolves soup. They began their own entities, their

761
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:42,160
Speaker 1: own platforms. I mean some cases there's good reporters working

762
00:51:42,200 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 1: for good media outlets. Normally those are not local. I mean,

763
00:51:47,320 --> 00:51:51,360
Speaker 1: when you see the big media companies, don't they don't

764
00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:56,720
Speaker 1: have which some exceptional, but they don't have many people

765
00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 1: doing balizing at the local level. You will find good

766
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,719
Speaker 1: local journalism with these renegades or rebels that have people

767
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 1: who have been fired from the big, larger organization and

768
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:09,759
Speaker 1: you have to be looking for those options. I mean

769
00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean that it's a guarantee that they're gonna

770
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:18,200
Speaker 1: gonna be independent completely. You also learned how to read them.

771
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:21,680
Speaker 1: For example, there's a good case of two reporters. We

772
00:52:21,880 --> 00:52:25,760
Speaker 1: just where they resigned or were fired, we don't know exactly,

773
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 1: but they from a well prestigious publication Lucally. They began

774
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:35,120
Speaker 1: their own operation. They have they are good, proven, proven

775
00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 1: as a reporters. You know what I'm trying to say

776
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:45,400
Speaker 1: that they have a reporter. Yeah, yeah, I thought that

777
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: was what it was. I was just like, I don't

778
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:52,560
Speaker 1: actually don't know. I don't know phrases either. Yeah. They

779
00:52:52,600 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: made a name for from themselves doing good journalism with

780
00:52:55,600 --> 00:52:59,399
Speaker 1: other publications. I began their own media outlet, and some

781
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:02,319
Speaker 1: people who complaining about they were too close to some

782
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 1: UH state agency with the new government. And they have

783
00:53:07,920 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 1: great information. They do good, good um reporting, but you

784
00:53:12,760 --> 00:53:17,120
Speaker 1: have to look curve carefully and which which type and

785
00:53:17,239 --> 00:53:21,080
Speaker 1: where are they leaning to. So I always read them.

786
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:23,440
Speaker 1: I just take it with a grain nut salt that

787
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:26,960
Speaker 1: you will see say in English, to try to balance

788
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:31,279
Speaker 1: my intake of information from different sources. It's difficult to

789
00:53:31,280 --> 00:53:35,120
Speaker 1: tell the people because they are not general The general

790
00:53:35,120 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: public is not as involved or interested in media on

791
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:42,480
Speaker 1: and on the newspaper or on the news. We are

792
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: because we live out of it. But people is doing

793
00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:50,000
Speaker 1: their life and making the the will to move around,

794
00:53:50,080 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 1: not for all of us in different France, as a doctor,

795
00:53:53,440 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: as a housewife, as a teacher, and they don't have

796
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 1: enough time to then to analyze media the way you do.

797
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 1: So we I think we need to do a little

798
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:06,359
Speaker 1: bit of that. Try to tell them this is for

799
00:54:06,400 --> 00:54:09,319
Speaker 1: this reason we believe this media outlet is living in

800
00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:13,040
Speaker 1: this direction, this is subsidized, or is getting We do

801
00:54:13,080 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: that this is getting this amount of money from the

802
00:54:16,280 --> 00:54:19,760
Speaker 1: government and not this amount of money from the government

803
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:22,160
Speaker 1: that will give you a hand to take it and

804
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,399
Speaker 1: to see who are they dealing with. I mean there's

805
00:54:24,440 --> 00:54:27,000
Speaker 1: guys who have been working for the governmen now are

806
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,759
Speaker 1: back to reports. I mean therese cases like that in

807
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:33,160
Speaker 1: the US. Stephanopolis used to work for the for the

808
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:36,520
Speaker 1: one of the presidents on h the guy for of

809
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,799
Speaker 1: Harball from MSNBC used to work for Nixon. I mean,

810
00:54:41,080 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: we see this, but in this environment it is more

811
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:48,240
Speaker 1: difficult to to live out those connections. And it's always

812
00:54:48,239 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 1: tricky to be moving from government jobs to journalism jobs

813
00:54:52,840 --> 00:54:57,680
Speaker 1: because it's not I mean you have to so I

814
00:54:57,680 --> 00:55:01,759
Speaker 1: mean when in my perspective, I never work for the government,

815
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:03,759
Speaker 1: I hope I would never have to do that. I

816
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: respect the ones they do, but you as we need

817
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: to be more transparent, transparent in that sense to be

818
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,840
Speaker 1: able to be fair with the people. Yeah, that makes sense.

819
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:16,879
Speaker 1: There's this interesting development in Mexico that I've seen in

820
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,279
Speaker 1: some areas, like if I want to learn about like

821
00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,160
Speaker 1: what's happening in the yucky pobulus in Sonora or in

822
00:55:22,360 --> 00:55:24,680
Speaker 1: chapters like these people who will just be like citizen

823
00:55:24,719 --> 00:55:28,960
Speaker 1: reporters on Facebook doing very local reporting that it seems

824
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,080
Speaker 1: to get really popular, but that they will sort of

825
00:55:31,120 --> 00:55:34,200
Speaker 1: blow up really quickly doing this like Facebook only reporting.

826
00:55:34,239 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: It's really interesting because there's a big need of information

827
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,000
Speaker 1: and they know many people in Mexico have learned to

828
00:55:41,239 --> 00:55:44,560
Speaker 1: be the strugful of the quote unquote legacy media the

829
00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:48,239
Speaker 1: expression I was looking for legacy media, the big companies

830
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:54,440
Speaker 1: um and And the problem is there's this risk that

831
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 1: many of those media new media outlets which is basically

832
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:03,160
Speaker 1: Facebook accounts or TikTok accounts. Now, the people doesn't know

833
00:56:03,200 --> 00:56:07,839
Speaker 1: how to deal with I mean they they are they

834
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:12,719
Speaker 1: have good intentions, but they don't really know how journalists

835
00:56:12,719 --> 00:56:16,120
Speaker 1: should work. And in some cases they think, like some

836
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,640
Speaker 1: for example, that they can take money for different actors

837
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,920
Speaker 1: and that will help them to grow and and I

838
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,400
Speaker 1: guess you can, but but you have to be very careful.

839
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:29,359
Speaker 1: And this has been a big problem that I'll try

840
00:56:29,400 --> 00:56:32,279
Speaker 1: to emphasize every time I talk about our situation. For

841
00:56:32,360 --> 00:56:36,600
Speaker 1: many years, the government was too close or their reporters

842
00:56:36,640 --> 00:56:39,600
Speaker 1: were too close to the government. The government will make

843
00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,719
Speaker 1: easy with a lot of privileges for the reporters. So

844
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: they learned to do this to work in this scenario.

845
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:49,439
Speaker 1: So if I was close to the government, they will

846
00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:51,799
Speaker 1: expect it's a lot of things for me, so to speak.

847
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: I can get good money. I can get probably a

848
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 1: license to for a bar way quicker than somebody who

849
00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 1: is not doesn't have that access to the government. And

850
00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:05,719
Speaker 1: I can probably get like um taxi licenses for example,

851
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,560
Speaker 1: because I'm a reporter, because I'm I'm close, I can

852
00:57:08,600 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 1: get close to the movies and checkers and the political arena. No,

853
00:57:13,080 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: but you so they did that and when the drop

854
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: trafficking with the narcos became another power, many many reporters

855
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:25,080
Speaker 1: began to see it in the same way. So they

856
00:57:25,080 --> 00:57:27,240
Speaker 1: were closely with the government was powered, and then we're

857
00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:30,920
Speaker 1: coursing with the businessmen. And they were closely with the

858
00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 1: with the unions because they were giving them handouts or

859
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: treat them them prevalently, or they were able to do

860
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,360
Speaker 1: some traffic of influence, who will give them some benefits.

861
00:57:41,560 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: When the narcos became a problem regional power on their own,

862
00:57:46,360 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: some of the reporters didn't see the different or gaining

863
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 1: too close to that power, and that has put a

864
00:57:53,880 --> 00:57:56,800
Speaker 1: lot of the reporters in danger. I think the reporters

865
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,760
Speaker 1: are learning a little bit more to stay away from

866
00:57:58,800 --> 00:58:03,200
Speaker 1: those But there is also with the abandon of social media,

867
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:06,760
Speaker 1: many people who are really crooked or that they were

868
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: not very interested in doing things ethically from the beginning

869
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,280
Speaker 1: that now see that with a Facebook account, with a

870
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:17,320
Speaker 1: TikTok account or Instagram or any other platform, you can

871
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:21,880
Speaker 1: pass by a reporter. So there's this need of information,

872
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:26,920
Speaker 1: but also it is filled with um with good and

873
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 1: bad people. As in any other cases I always talk.

874
00:58:29,840 --> 00:58:32,640
Speaker 1: I mean, this is the all analogy of a gun

875
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:36,440
Speaker 1: is the gun bad or good? All depends on the

876
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:40,720
Speaker 1: circumstances you are using it. No, I would Yeah, yeah,

877
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:45,320
Speaker 1: I'm not not a gang guy. But I don't want

878
00:58:45,360 --> 00:58:49,120
Speaker 1: to get into your your your political discourse about your

879
00:58:49,280 --> 00:58:56,040
Speaker 1: First Amendment. That. Yeah, that's a whole another episode needed it. Yeah,

880
00:58:56,120 --> 00:59:00,280
Speaker 1: that's fine, he said, sure, did you have anything else? No,

881
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,760
Speaker 1: that was awesome, Thank you so much for all the information. Yeah,

882
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:07,680
Speaker 1: And talking of reliable media, where can people find you online?

883
00:59:07,720 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: Where can they find your work? Where can they find

884
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:13,000
Speaker 1: your social media? The main thing is Tijuana Press dot com.

885
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:17,640
Speaker 1: That's main patroom is just an online needed media outlet.

886
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:21,640
Speaker 1: Is not a newspaper. It's just when we we have

887
00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:24,200
Speaker 1: been changing our way of work because we began as

888
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,520
Speaker 1: a daily we're no longer to do that because we

889
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:29,200
Speaker 1: don't have enough resources for that. But also there's plenty

890
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:33,920
Speaker 1: of daily media outlets, digital media outlets for the daily stories.

891
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,160
Speaker 1: We want to do a little bit more in them,

892
00:59:36,240 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: more investigative, more give you context of what is going on.

893
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:43,160
Speaker 1: We we are in Spanish, but you can follow us

894
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 1: on Twitter on add Tijuana Press because we try to

895
00:59:47,600 --> 00:59:50,960
Speaker 1: with our poor English, try to do some on tweets

896
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:54,560
Speaker 1: on English with the help of Google Translator or other Hell,

897
00:59:54,680 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 1: guys who other colleague that will correct or spelling. But

898
00:59:58,800 --> 01:00:01,080
Speaker 1: that's the main way to get all of us. Well,

899
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: I think you're English is great. Uh you talked to

900
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:09,479
Speaker 1: us for an hour and I understood everything. Um. But yeah,

901
01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:12,440
Speaker 1: but thank you so much. I really appreciate your time. Yeah,

902
01:00:12,760 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 1: thank you, No, thank you, guys. You always help us

903
01:00:16,400 --> 01:00:19,520
Speaker 1: to spread the world and to be able to put

904
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:22,000
Speaker 1: ourselves to be judged by the public. This is what

905
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:24,800
Speaker 1: it is more important for us. But we do invest

906
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:29,080
Speaker 1: in algorithms from any social platform because we believe in

907
01:00:29,240 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: and that the people will be willing to find us

908
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,400
Speaker 1: if they are really interested. And you guys help us

909
01:00:34,440 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: about in that sense. Yeah, thank yeah, thank you so

910
01:00:37,120 --> 01:00:39,280
Speaker 1: much giving us some of your time. We really appreciate it.

911
01:00:40,520 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 1: Thank you. We'll be here if you would be, it

912
01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:45,280
Speaker 1: would be a big help. Thank you. Thank you. So

913
01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:52,840
Speaker 1: it could happen here as a production of pool Zone

914
01:00:52,880 --> 01:00:55,640
Speaker 1: Media and more podcast on cool Zone Media. Visit our

915
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:58,120
Speaker 1: website cool zone media dot com, or check us out

916
01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:00,280
Speaker 1: on the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast Us, or

917
01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,320
Speaker 1: wherever you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for

918
01:01:03,360 --> 01:01:06,080
Speaker 1: it could happen here. Updated monthly at cool Zone Media

919
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,560
Speaker 1: dot com slash Sources. Thanks for listening.