1 00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, February one, second, third, we're going to be 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:11,160 Speaker 1: in Seattle, Portland, San Francisco again. That's right. We can't 3 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:13,360 Speaker 1: wait to get back on stage. We've really missed in 4 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,520 Speaker 1: live shows coming out and see us. Tickets are already 5 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: on sale and where can you get those at link 6 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 1: tree slash s y s K Live. That's l I 7 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: n K t R dot E slash s y s 8 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: K Live. I can't wait to see everybody. Welcome to 9 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: Stuff You Should Know, a production of I Heart Radio. Hey, 10 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,240 Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and there's 11 00:00:43,280 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: Charles W. Chuck Bright and Jerry's here of course, which 12 00:00:46,960 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: makes this Stuff you Should Know from you can. I 13 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,200 Speaker 1: lead off with a couple of just fun quick shoutouts 14 00:00:55,200 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: before we get to the not fun hm topic. You know, uh, 15 00:01:00,440 --> 00:01:03,960 Speaker 1: going to Boston tomorrow to see Pavement. Oh that's what 16 00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 1: you're doing? Okay? Great? Uh. My old friend from high school, 17 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:14,759 Speaker 1: Robert h. Chehade of Toughs University fame, we were texting 18 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,319 Speaker 1: about Pavement and he said, this is back when tickets 19 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 1: went on sale. I'm going to both Atlanta shows, of course, 20 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 1: and he said, you want to come up here? I 21 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,839 Speaker 1: was like, heck, yeah, so going to see the Boys tomorrow, 22 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: and UH also want to quickly shout out I just 23 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:32,120 Speaker 1: got back recently from my uh tenth, eleventh, and twelve 24 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: Bonnie Prince Billy shows for the last couple of years, 25 00:01:35,319 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: and I just want to shout out the great people 26 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:45,640 Speaker 1: in towns of Santa Cruz, California, Pasa Roblis, California, and 27 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,320 Speaker 1: Big Sir. Oh yeah, I just had a great time 28 00:01:49,360 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 1: out there. It's my part of the country. I love 29 00:01:52,520 --> 00:01:57,880 Speaker 1: northern California. To my vibe, had great breakfast burrito's, great food. 30 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: They do him right, man. He can't get a real 31 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: decent breakfast burrito in Atlanta, and I don't know why 32 00:02:06,080 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: that's gonna be my retirement job. Oh that's great, I'll come. 33 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 1: I'll come patronize your breakfast period. I don't know what 34 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: is so hard about a California saw breakfast burrito, but 35 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: Atlanta does not seem capable. It's probably too healthy. It's 36 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 1: not healthy. Okay, Well then I don't know. I'm all 37 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: out of ideas. Chuck's so frustrating anyway, great towns, great shows. 38 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:33,880 Speaker 1: Another great run with the great will Oldham. This time solo, 39 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: first time I've ever seen him literally by himself. He 40 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 1: has a variety of arrangements, ranging from full band a 41 00:02:42,160 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: couple of people to six or eight bluegrass style. And 42 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:48,799 Speaker 1: this was this was just him, which was a treat 43 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:55,000 Speaker 1: unplugged for once plugged but acoustic. Yeah, okay, did you 44 00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:57,679 Speaker 1: I was wondering if you've gotten yourself a vand of 45 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: hollo him around and yet no, no, I'm flying in 46 00:03:00,560 --> 00:03:03,360 Speaker 1: these places. Yeah, that seems sensible, because then I ran 47 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:06,560 Speaker 1: it'd be tough to get back in time to work. 48 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,760 Speaker 1: You know, I wish you could fly in a place 49 00:03:08,840 --> 00:03:12,519 Speaker 1: and rent a little hippie van to follow someone around 50 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,119 Speaker 1: for a few days. That sounds like your retirement job 51 00:03:15,440 --> 00:03:18,560 Speaker 1: instead of some dumb mid sized suv. Yeah, you could 52 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: be like, run a VW wagon, get a free breakfast burrito. 53 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: There you go. That's that's it. I might invest in 54 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: that one. All right. Now, let's talk about fundamentalism. Yeah, 55 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 1: let's talk about fundamentalism. Um, this is uh, this is 56 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:38,600 Speaker 1: one of those kind of I guess episodes that ties 57 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 1: into a bunch of other stuff, and it's the kind 58 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:42,800 Speaker 1: of thing that you don't really think about, and then 59 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:44,960 Speaker 1: when you do think about you wish you weren't thinking about. 60 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: But it's kind of important, I think for everybody to 61 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: be aware of because with fundamentalism, a lot of people, 62 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:56,800 Speaker 1: especially non religious people, just presume that fundamentalism is a 63 00:03:56,880 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 1: religious thing only necessarily deaf only does affect religions most easily, 64 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,320 Speaker 1: as we'll see, But basically anything that people really hold 65 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: dear um can actually produce fundamentalism. And when you kind 66 00:04:11,360 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: of strip it of its religious connotations, um it it 67 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,880 Speaker 1: becomes clear like, oh yeah, there's a lot of fundamentalism 68 00:04:18,880 --> 00:04:23,680 Speaker 1: going on around. It's especially in two UM and it's 69 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,120 Speaker 1: it has given me just researching this, it's given me 70 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: like a deeper impulse to be like, hold the center, 71 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 1: Hold the center. We can make it through this. We 72 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: just have to. We just have to get to the 73 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: other side and make sure that the center remains intact. 74 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: You know. Yeah, I think, I mean, you put this together. 75 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: You did a great job, by the way, on a 76 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:48,279 Speaker 1: on a tough topic. But um, I think the sociologists 77 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: that you found that said, uh, this really had it 78 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:56,760 Speaker 1: is um. Fundamentalism is an ideology rather than a theology, 79 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,719 Speaker 1: so it can be religious in nature, but it doesn't 80 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,000 Speaker 1: have to be all that to say that sort of 81 00:05:02,000 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: a long winded c o A that this is not 82 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:08,360 Speaker 1: a hit piece on religion at all, but it is. 83 00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:09,840 Speaker 1: You know, I think it is going to end up 84 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 1: being a bit of a condemnation on fundamentalism, because it's 85 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,680 Speaker 1: not a great way to be to say, hey, the 86 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 1: way we think of things is the only right way. 87 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: Everybody else is wrong, and I don't want anything to 88 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,160 Speaker 1: do with you. Well, not only that you need to 89 00:05:25,240 --> 00:05:29,320 Speaker 1: change your viewpoints to find that follow mine, because mine's 90 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,000 Speaker 1: the only right way to think. That's a terrible way 91 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 1: to be terrible and and truly, when you start to 92 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,400 Speaker 1: research fundamentalism, you you do start to see it everywhere. 93 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:42,760 Speaker 1: Maybe not stuff that checks every single box, but when 94 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 1: you understand the basics of it, it's it becomes clear 95 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: we're surrounded by it right now. Um, And that's actually 96 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: kind of a new thing. Um. One of the things 97 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,320 Speaker 1: about fundamentalism is when when you kind of listen to 98 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: what they're saying, they imagine that they're they're taking society 99 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 1: back to this you know, golden age or golden arrow 100 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:06,359 Speaker 1: and things, you know, we're more sensible and more predictable 101 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,479 Speaker 1: and reliable and things just made sense more. But UM 102 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: fundamentalism is actually a pretty modern thing. Um. It only 103 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:18,719 Speaker 1: arose starting in about eighteen seventy. Uh, and it was 104 00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: originally UM this kind of uh assault or response to 105 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:29,040 Speaker 1: progressive ism in religion. Yeah, that's a good way to 106 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,480 Speaker 1: say it. I think the first wave he said, ran 107 00:06:32,560 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: from about eighteen seventy to nineteen nine. I'm sorry, and 108 00:06:38,400 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 1: uh and we'll you know, we'll see in a minute 109 00:06:40,160 --> 00:06:42,600 Speaker 1: here kind of how and why it ended. The first 110 00:06:42,720 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: run at least, or at least brought it underground. But 111 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: it started or it took its name at least from 112 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:55,479 Speaker 1: a series of pamphlets called The Fundamentals colon Uh, Testimony 113 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: of the Truth. And that kind of says it all 114 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:01,960 Speaker 1: right there, They're like someone saying, this is the truth. 115 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:05,280 Speaker 1: This is not our opinion on maybe how things should be. 116 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:08,480 Speaker 1: Is this is the one way that things clearly should be, 117 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: because it's the only way, because it's the one truth. Yeah. 118 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: And around that time, in the late nineteenth century, UM 119 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: religion in America was starting to become more progressive because 120 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 1: society was modernizing and to kind of adapt and change 121 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:29,880 Speaker 1: and alter itself to this modernizing society. UM, just the 122 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: understanding of what religion meant was under transition, and fundamentalists said, no, no, no, 123 00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: religion is religion. It doesn't matter what society does. This 124 00:07:38,960 --> 00:07:42,160 Speaker 1: is the truth, This is the this is the way 125 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 1: that it's supposed to be, and we need to stop 126 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: progressing away from it and being accommodating to to modern society. 127 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: We need to make modern society go back to the 128 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 1: old ways, you know, the ways were we're in charge. Yeah, 129 00:07:54,960 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 1: and there was a big um sort of one of 130 00:07:57,080 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: the first big face punches to fundamentalism came about in 131 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 1: eighteen fifty nine. Uh well, I kind of helped give 132 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:09,240 Speaker 1: rise to the original fundamentalism. But the publication of On 133 00:08:09,280 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 1: the Origin of the Species from Darwin, which basically you know, 134 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,640 Speaker 1: everyone knows what that did. That introduced evolution and natural 135 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 1: selection and really undermine sort of in writing for the 136 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 1: first time, it challenged creationism as why we're here and 137 00:08:25,440 --> 00:08:28,720 Speaker 1: how we got here, and it was it's sort of 138 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: as you'll see that you know, at times when um, 139 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,800 Speaker 1: a fundamentalist might think, or a religion might think that 140 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: they're being threatened by new ideas, that's sort of when 141 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:43,480 Speaker 1: the lockdown goes on and they really sort of rise 142 00:08:43,520 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 1: to the occasion, and that sort of helped birth the 143 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:50,679 Speaker 1: big first rise of fundamentalism. Yeah, fundamentalism UM took its 144 00:08:50,720 --> 00:08:55,720 Speaker 1: first swipe at modern modernity. Yeah sure, UM with the 145 00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:02,079 Speaker 1: Scopes Monkey trial in UM. It was uh Tennessee versus Scopes, 146 00:09:02,120 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 1: where Tennessee had charged public UM school teacher John Scopes 147 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 1: of teaching evolution in the classroom, which was against the law. 148 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,680 Speaker 1: They charged the science teacher with teaching science exactly, That's 149 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: exactly right, UM, And a guy, a very powerful and 150 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,560 Speaker 1: um prestigious and smart attorney named Clarence Darrow came to 151 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 1: the aid of John Scopes, UM, and the Scopes Monkey 152 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: trial actually ended up putting not John Scopes on trial, 153 00:09:30,120 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 1: but fundamentalism on trial. And Clarence Darrow was not a 154 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:36,840 Speaker 1: fan of fundamentalism, and he basically used this trial as 155 00:09:36,880 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 1: an excuse to just just show how ridiculous and backwards 156 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 1: these fundamentalists beliefs were. That's right, and it worked. Uh 157 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 1: he in a sense, he lost the trial. I believe 158 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:54,160 Speaker 1: in that until nineteen sixty seven that ban on teaching 159 00:09:54,160 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: evolution remained in effect, uh seven from UM. But you know, 160 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: he lost a battle. He won the war and that 161 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: the coverage of the Scopes monkey trial really like kind 162 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: of blew the whole thing up and dealt a big 163 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 1: blow to what fundamentalism was in the US and how 164 00:10:14,360 --> 00:10:17,800 Speaker 1: much sort of influence they might have moving forward. And 165 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: kind of what it did post Scopes was it kind 166 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:25,960 Speaker 1: of moved it back underground for several decades. Yeah. I 167 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:28,040 Speaker 1: kind of think of the Scopes Monkey Trial and the 168 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:31,160 Speaker 1: result of it is like, um, when Homer gets embarrassed 169 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: on The Simpsons and the whole town just points and 170 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:37,480 Speaker 1: laughs at him. In that instance, Homer is fundamentalism in 171 00:10:37,520 --> 00:10:40,600 Speaker 1: the nine twenties in America, right. Like, society did not 172 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: think much of it afterwards, which is surprising because it 173 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: had been kind of a respected school of thought UM 174 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:49,719 Speaker 1: for a little while, and I guess it just kind 175 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 1: of it just went too far towards the mainstream and 176 00:10:53,920 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: as it went underground. It's not like it just went away, UM. 177 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:02,120 Speaker 1: It actually built up a kind of like shadow institution 178 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:12,800 Speaker 1: to rival the secular society like schools, UM TV stations, UH, colleges, seminaries, 179 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 1: mission groups, and then also started to really kind of 180 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:20,400 Speaker 1: recruit new followers and members of these fundamentalist ideas UM 181 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:24,960 Speaker 1: through churches, through church outreach as well. Um, and over 182 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 1: the years they just kind of built more and more 183 00:11:27,640 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: strength and more and more strength than in the late seventies. 184 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:35,080 Speaker 1: Was just like a tidal wave of fundamentalism swept across 185 00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: the world and really caught sociology off guard. Yeah, and 186 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,839 Speaker 1: like you said, around the world, it wasn't just we're 187 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: not just saying like you United States Christians did this. 188 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,719 Speaker 1: It was it popped up in some very surprising places sometimes. 189 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 1: But again, it kind of all happened at once. But 190 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: there was a big distinction here with the second wave, 191 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: and that the first wave was really too um to 192 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 1: to kind of strike back against progressive religious movement and 193 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,200 Speaker 1: kind of keep religion as it was and not to 194 00:12:07,480 --> 00:12:12,400 Speaker 1: modernize religion in any way. This go around, it said, uh, 195 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:15,000 Speaker 1: society as a whole, I don't want anything to do 196 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:19,320 Speaker 1: with this modernization and this progressivism that's going on, and 197 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:22,440 Speaker 1: forget religion, Like, we want to get involved in government 198 00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,760 Speaker 1: and we'll and we're gonna do it in a big way. 199 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 1: And that's when the Christian right was born and groups 200 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,080 Speaker 1: like the Moral Majority and the Christian Coalition put big 201 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: money into politics and help you know, sort of the 202 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:42,559 Speaker 1: beginning of getting politicians elected with a with a pretty 203 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: severe religious bent. Yeah. And in some cases they were 204 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:50,800 Speaker 1: directly trying to elect fundamentalists like Pat Robertson actually ran 205 00:12:50,920 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 1: for president campaign UM and uh did not win, but 206 00:12:56,679 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: he is about as fundamentalists as you can get and 207 00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,760 Speaker 1: see like a mainstream television station with the seven hundred club, 208 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: but also like backing UM politicians with such gusto that 209 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:14,200 Speaker 1: the politicians they got elected basically owed them. Uh. And 210 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:17,640 Speaker 1: in that way, fundamentalism like really kind of crept into 211 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,839 Speaker 1: um American politics. And since that time you start to 212 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:25,320 Speaker 1: see things like basically a challenge to the concept of 213 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,240 Speaker 1: something like a separation of church and state that is 214 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,760 Speaker 1: completely at odds with American Christian fundamentalism. Uh. And so 215 00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:35,600 Speaker 1: there's been as as fundamentalism has gotten more and more 216 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: into American politics, there the line between church and state, 217 00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 1: um has been blurred more and more. And that's just 218 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:45,280 Speaker 1: one example of it. Yeah. And like you mentioned, it 219 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:47,839 Speaker 1: happened all around the world in the late seventies. In 220 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:53,120 Speaker 1: ninety nine, to be specific, Uh, militant Schiites followed Uh 221 00:13:53,559 --> 00:13:57,680 Speaker 1: it's all Komany and took Iran away from the Shaw 222 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:01,760 Speaker 1: and installed uh Komani as the leader. And you know, 223 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: I remember this when I was a kid. If you 224 00:14:04,040 --> 00:14:05,599 Speaker 1: and I mentioned this on the show before. If you 225 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: go back and just google Iran pre revolution, you will 226 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: see a very swinging sixties and seventies groovy country. Uh. 227 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 1: That is not like the Iran we know today. And 228 00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:22,000 Speaker 1: that was partially not partially, that was completely due to 229 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,680 Speaker 1: the Shiite uprising and revolution that happened because of fundamental 230 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 1: religious fundamentalism in their case. Yeah, it's exactly like if 231 00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 1: followers of Jerry Folwell um created an armed insurgency and 232 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: overthrew the American government and installed Jerry Falwell as the 233 00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: supreme leader of America. It's the exact same thing. That's 234 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,600 Speaker 1: what happened in Iran. And it's really sad to see, 235 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 1: but I mean that's what happened, and it was part 236 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: of this wave of of fundamentalism. Um. There was also 237 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:56,280 Speaker 1: Israel started to get more fundamentalist starting in nineteen seventy four. 238 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 1: There's still um a lot of challenges by fundamentalism within 239 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: Israeli politics today. UM. India has a nationalist party, a 240 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,480 Speaker 1: Hindu nationalist party, I should say, the b j P Um, 241 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: they're fundamentalists, Hindu fundamentalists. Um, they've actually held power like 242 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:16,560 Speaker 1: the presidency multiple times since nineteen eighty UM. And then 243 00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: today there's still waves of fundamentalism going on in Africa. 244 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:27,360 Speaker 1: Has become a laboratory for Christian fundamentalists who basically travel 245 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: to Africa as activists and um get new laws, fundamentalist 246 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 1: laws passed in countries like Uganda, whereas of two thousand 247 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,360 Speaker 1: and fourteen, you can be sentenced to life in prison 248 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:43,400 Speaker 1: just for being gay. That is thanks to American fundamentalists 249 00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:47,080 Speaker 1: who traveled to Uganda, got in with the government and 250 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: changed laws like that, or got laws like that created 251 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 1: or enforced. Yeah, and it's it's crazy when you look 252 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,280 Speaker 1: at the all this happening at once, Like you said, 253 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:59,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's seventy nine in Iran, seventy four in Israel, 254 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: then I teen seventies in the United States. Uh, it 255 00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: was just a it's weird how things happened like that. 256 00:16:06,640 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: I wonder if there's a podcast topic in there about 257 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: like un nonplanned coalescence of you know, anything, just a zeitgeist. Yeah, 258 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: I guess that that's sort of the word I'm looking for. 259 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: I wonder too, because it's not like the shi i 260 00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,760 Speaker 1: Um militants in Iran. We're undergoing the same experience as 261 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: the Moral Majority in the US. But the timing is insane. 262 00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:37,000 Speaker 1: I mean we're talking like within a year of each other. 263 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: There's the Iranian Revolution and the Moral Majority springs up 264 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 1: and gets Ronald Reagan elected like that. That's and then 265 00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 1: in in India in nineteen eighty that the Hindu Nationalist 266 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: Um Party gets founded. Like all of it happened at 267 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,920 Speaker 1: the same time, and it had to be had to 268 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 1: intertwine in some way. But I just don't see like 269 00:16:56,320 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: um you know, um pat Robertson in the comine like 270 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,119 Speaker 1: coordinating any So, how did it happens? I don't know. 271 00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,800 Speaker 1: It's a pushback against something else that was happening, But 272 00:17:10,359 --> 00:17:12,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. I think I find that stuff fascinating, 273 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: how societies move as a whole. All right, how about 274 00:17:15,520 --> 00:17:18,879 Speaker 1: a break? Yes, I think we're doing good so far, man, 275 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 1: And we'll talk a little bit more about the F 276 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:44,960 Speaker 1: word right after this. Okay. So there's some things that 277 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 1: that people some misconceptions um see you jinkstas chuck um 278 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:54,280 Speaker 1: that people have about fundamental See that's why I said 279 00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: the F word. I wasn't trying to be cheeky. I'm 280 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,400 Speaker 1: having a hard time saying the word. So. Um, there's 281 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:03,240 Speaker 1: some miscons sceptions about fundamentalism that most people, especially secular 282 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:05,879 Speaker 1: people have, And like we said at the outset that 283 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,399 Speaker 1: a lot of people think it's it's an infection of 284 00:18:09,440 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 1: religion and that it's a religion problem and if you 285 00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 1: aren't a member of a church or a religious group, 286 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,840 Speaker 1: it's not your problem, and that's absolutely untrue, and that 287 00:18:18,840 --> 00:18:22,000 Speaker 1: that viewpoint of the whole thing is actually a big 288 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:26,199 Speaker 1: problem for society as a whole. Yeah. Uh. And we 289 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier a little bit that like often you'll see 290 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:33,160 Speaker 1: fundamentalism creep up when they feel like something is being 291 00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,640 Speaker 1: threatened that they hold dear, and that's when they really 292 00:18:35,680 --> 00:18:38,479 Speaker 1: locked down and get active. And you can look at 293 00:18:38,520 --> 00:18:42,200 Speaker 1: things like, you know, people are fundamentalists about the Second Amendment, 294 00:18:42,359 --> 00:18:45,680 Speaker 1: people are fundamentalists about the First Amendment. Uh. And it's 295 00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,720 Speaker 1: usually more so at times where they feel like those 296 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:54,159 Speaker 1: amendments are threatened. During the Cold War, people were, um, 297 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: you know, the threat of communism really made people a 298 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 1: lot of people fundamentalists about uh, the free market, let's say, 299 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 1: and uh, what else. There's a lot of other great examples. Um. Ironically, 300 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:10,480 Speaker 1: people like Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins who are basically 301 00:19:10,560 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 1: militantly anti religious. Um, they are accused by some of 302 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:20,320 Speaker 1: being fundamentalists, and they're thinking in part because they're intolerant, which, 303 00:19:20,320 --> 00:19:23,159 Speaker 1: as we'll see is a really important part. Um. And 304 00:19:23,359 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: that intolerance also gets um liberal college campuses accused of 305 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:32,440 Speaker 1: becoming more and more fundamentalist in their thinking, where non 306 00:19:32,520 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: liberal professors can actually find their their jobs in jeopardy 307 00:19:35,840 --> 00:19:38,440 Speaker 1: and actually do get canned because of something they said 308 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 1: that wasn't sufficiently liberal enough. Right, So this is kind 309 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,639 Speaker 1: of what I was talking about earlier, where it's not 310 00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:52,840 Speaker 1: like Bill March checks every single box of you know, fundamentalism, 311 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:56,960 Speaker 1: but if you if you understand fundamental fundamentalism, he actually 312 00:19:57,160 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 1: comes there's a lot of there's enough boxes that it 313 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 1: makes question, Okay, is this actually fundamentalist thinking? Um, same 314 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,240 Speaker 1: with constitutional originalists, Like it does not have to be religion, 315 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: and once you stop looking at fundamentalism as a really 316 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,440 Speaker 1: strictly religious thing, it really does open one's eyes to 317 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:19,680 Speaker 1: just the world in general. Yeah, I totally agree. Um, 318 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,800 Speaker 1: you mentioned something really important a second ago in that, 319 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:27,440 Speaker 1: which was intolerance, which is a real hallmark of fundamentalism. U. 320 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,120 Speaker 1: And a really great example that you gave in your 321 00:20:30,119 --> 00:20:33,680 Speaker 1: research here is the Amish. You can't get any more 322 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: sort of tighten it and strict religious than the Amish. 323 00:20:38,720 --> 00:20:41,720 Speaker 1: But the Amish, you know, who knows what they say 324 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:43,840 Speaker 1: about us. They may judge us, but what they don't 325 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,160 Speaker 1: do is leave their community and knock on our door 326 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,840 Speaker 1: and try and convert you to being Amish and say 327 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 1: the Amish way of thinking is the only right way 328 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 1: and everyone else should be like this. Yeah, they're not 329 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: running like Amish people in the local primaries to take 330 00:20:57,600 --> 00:21:00,119 Speaker 1: over the school board because they want to impose is 331 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:02,920 Speaker 1: Amish beliefs on the rest of the community. They don't 332 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 1: do that. They're not fundamentalist. And that's a really important 333 00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:11,840 Speaker 1: distinction and intolerance. It's basically, uh, there there is no compromise. 334 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: There is one true viewpoint that is correct, and anything 335 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,480 Speaker 1: that differs from that is the enemy of that. Yeah, 336 00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:22,560 Speaker 1: I mean, and intolerance is such an important part of 337 00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: fundamentalism that you can almost use it as a litmus 338 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,560 Speaker 1: test to say, Okay, is this thinking fundamentalist or not, 339 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,360 Speaker 1: because if if there's no intolerance. You just you got 340 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,199 Speaker 1: the Amish people who really really believe in in what 341 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: they believe in, but they're not trying to impose their 342 00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:39,440 Speaker 1: beliefs on anybody else, and they're fine with you believing 343 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,400 Speaker 1: whatever you believe. That's that's your problem. You're going to hell. 344 00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: Although I don't think the Amish hopefully think like that. 345 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: But whatever, UM and that intolerance makes it like incompatible 346 00:21:53,200 --> 00:22:00,440 Speaker 1: with society because in modern society, UM tolerance is extraordinarily important. 347 00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: And not only is an important, it's it's it's considered 348 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: to be something that just kind of bubbles up to 349 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:10,360 Speaker 1: the top because it ends up holding society together. When 350 00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 1: you have so many different disparate people of different religions, 351 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:19,480 Speaker 1: of different creeds, of different nationalities, of um, different sexual orientation, 352 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: of different genders, all living together in one country and 353 00:22:25,040 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: they can coexist peacefully. Tolerance is just going to develop 354 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:34,360 Speaker 1: over time. And if you have intolerance, active intolerance, that's 355 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:37,960 Speaker 1: an infection on that society. And that's why fundamentalism is 356 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: so dangerous to society. So yeah, I mean that's a 357 00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: really good point. And in a in a modern society, Uh, 358 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:47,840 Speaker 1: we've talked before about the marketplace of ideas, which is 359 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: the idea that um. People just throw out a lot 360 00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,119 Speaker 1: of different ideas, and the ones that work the best 361 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 1: are the ones that are going to rise to the top, 362 00:22:57,320 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: and those are probably going to be the ones that 363 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:03,680 Speaker 1: are the most widely accommodating to the most people. And 364 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: if you are a fundamentalist, you're not a big fan 365 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:09,280 Speaker 1: of the marketplace of ideas. You're not a big fan 366 00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: of what's the most widely accommodating. Because as society has 367 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:16,879 Speaker 1: progressed over the years, it has gotten more well progressive, 368 00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,960 Speaker 1: and it's gotten more modern, and things have moved forward, 369 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: and fundamentalism is inherently kind of anti that in general. 370 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: And they're like that that can spring up in the workplace. 371 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,200 Speaker 1: It's like I don't want to work. I don't want 372 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,480 Speaker 1: to have a cubicle next to this kind of person 373 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,640 Speaker 1: quote unquote UM. And it's not like I'll go quit 374 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:41,640 Speaker 1: my job. It's like, uh no, why don't we Why 375 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,960 Speaker 1: don't they leave? Why don't you fire them right for 376 00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:47,800 Speaker 1: being gay? Because they're the ones that are the problem. 377 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:51,399 Speaker 1: I'm the one that subscribes to the truth. And it 378 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 1: doesn't even matter if you're speaking out or not speaking 379 00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: out against fundamentalist beliefs. If you just subscribe to a 380 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: different way of thinking, you are challenging the truth, and 381 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:07,080 Speaker 1: that cannot be tolerated. Opposing viewpoints cannot be tolerated by fundamentalism. 382 00:24:07,080 --> 00:24:10,159 Speaker 1: They have to be stamped out, they have to be ostracized, 383 00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:14,400 Speaker 1: they have to have violence against them in some cases. Um. 384 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:17,439 Speaker 1: And so it would make more sense to that that 385 00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:22,120 Speaker 1: fundamentalist worker that their gay coworkers should be fired, not them. Um. 386 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: And that's that's again, that's a huge contradiction to society, 387 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,960 Speaker 1: modern society in particular. Yeah, And I mean, you made 388 00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,920 Speaker 1: a really good point when you sort of talked about 389 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:38,919 Speaker 1: the hippie movement. Um. Fundamentalism does challenge modernism kind of 390 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:43,240 Speaker 1: full stop for control of what's going on. And the 391 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,040 Speaker 1: hippies they had a counterculture. They didn't like what was 392 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,159 Speaker 1: going on in modern society. They challenged it as well, 393 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:53,240 Speaker 1: but there was a big difference in that they rejected 394 00:24:53,320 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: modern society and just sort of turn their backs on 395 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,000 Speaker 1: it and want to create a new way for themselves, 396 00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 1: like their own utophe, which obviously was never gonna happen. 397 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: God bless of hippies. But that's what they tried to do. 398 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 1: At least what they didn't do was try and say 399 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,520 Speaker 1: everybody should be hippies. We want to take control of 400 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,680 Speaker 1: the government and until everyone that they should lead a 401 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:20,360 Speaker 1: hippie lifestyle through through like laws and violence, right right. Yeah. So, Um, 402 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,199 Speaker 1: what's interesting, Chuck, is what the hippies were espousing as 403 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:28,000 Speaker 1: a counter culture was what fundamentalism was doing starting in 404 00:25:29,200 --> 00:25:33,760 Speaker 1: to basically nineteen eighty in the US. They as a counterculture, 405 00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,720 Speaker 1: they went off and established their own counter culture that 406 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: they had again their own schools, their own media. Um, 407 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: it wasn't until they became politically active that they became 408 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: that second wave where they they they actively were trying 409 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:51,520 Speaker 1: to take over the society in order to steer it 410 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 1: away from modernity and toward Christianity. And again they keep saying, 411 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 1: we want to steer it back into Christianity. That's something 412 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,840 Speaker 1: that's um, that's super up for debate as well, is 413 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,880 Speaker 1: just how christian was America before and our our fundamentalist 414 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 1: steering us backward or is this a whole new modern 415 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 1: direction that we've never been in before? And scholars say 416 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,679 Speaker 1: definitely the ladder of those two yeah, for sure. And 417 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,520 Speaker 1: we'll talk a little bit about that later. But Um, 418 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:22,119 Speaker 1: some of the traits of fundamentalist groups uh. And again 419 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 1: this is this can be any kind of fundamental fundamentalism 420 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,320 Speaker 1: all around the world. But one we've already kind of 421 00:26:28,359 --> 00:26:31,800 Speaker 1: talked about is they're reactive to crises. Uh. And that's 422 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,240 Speaker 1: when you know, I sort of mentioned when they feel 423 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:38,000 Speaker 1: like they're being specifically threatened by maybe a law or 424 00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,720 Speaker 1: anything really or a movement or a group another group. Um, 425 00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: then they try to sort of overcome that with uh, 426 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: with power and of course now with politics. Um. McCarthyism 427 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 1: is a really good example there. Um of I mean, 428 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:53,960 Speaker 1: the Cold War created a lot of fun different kinds 429 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:58,440 Speaker 1: of fundamentalism. Uh. McCarthyism certainly was one of them. Yeah. 430 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,720 Speaker 1: And so like a fundamentalist might rise on its own 431 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,160 Speaker 1: just in times of uncertainty, but when things are really 432 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,520 Speaker 1: uncertain for a lot more people, that's when they start 433 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,879 Speaker 1: to attract more and more followers. Right. There's also a 434 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,639 Speaker 1: big component of fundamentalism that is, um, a reliance on 435 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,359 Speaker 1: simplistic solutions. Right. So like, yeah, the world is huge 436 00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,560 Speaker 1: and complex and scary, but all you have to do 437 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,159 Speaker 1: is listen to the literal word of God or follow 438 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:30,000 Speaker 1: the original wording of the Constitution, and all of your 439 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:32,919 Speaker 1: your answer, all of your questions will be answered. You 440 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,919 Speaker 1: don't even have to think about anything. Just follow the 441 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:39,399 Speaker 1: word um. And that's another hallmark of fundamentalism is you 442 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: are basically blind obedience to some leadership and or set 443 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:50,119 Speaker 1: of doctrines. And um. That's one of the reasons that 444 00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: it makes it so attractive. Like you don't have to 445 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:55,520 Speaker 1: think about the world. You don't have to wonder about 446 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,159 Speaker 1: the world and why it's so scary and why it 447 00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,160 Speaker 1: doesn't make sense. Things are the way they are are 448 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 1: because that's how they are, That's how they're supposed to be. 449 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: Like men are more important than women because God made 450 00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 1: us that way. Like that level of thinking, and like 451 00:28:10,119 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: you just put a period on the end. You don't 452 00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: have to wonder any longer why a man is more 453 00:28:13,840 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: important than a woman in America these days. Um, that's 454 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,719 Speaker 1: just that. And that's that's a really big attraction of 455 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 1: fundamentalism to people. It's like, um, remember King of the Hill. Yeah, 456 00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,680 Speaker 1: so Bill Doughtree his his buddy. I remember once he said, Um, 457 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:32,639 Speaker 1: he missed being in the army because they took the 458 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 1: guesswork out of living and like fundamentalism does that for 459 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: its followers, like they tell what the answers are and 460 00:28:40,680 --> 00:28:43,800 Speaker 1: you don't have to think about it yourself. Yeah, that's good. 461 00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,840 Speaker 1: I have a friend who I won't name, who his 462 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,200 Speaker 1: big gripe is when he talks to his you know, 463 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,320 Speaker 1: he's sort of the black sheep of his family and 464 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,239 Speaker 1: that they don't align politically. But he says when he 465 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,840 Speaker 1: tries to challenge them with actual facts and things, he said, 466 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: they always say the same thing, sing They just sort 467 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: of turned their head and go, I don't know about that. 468 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:07,000 Speaker 1: And that's sort of the I mean, the perfect distillation 469 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:12,800 Speaker 1: of simplistic thinking is when met with literal facts and data, 470 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,120 Speaker 1: just you know, I don't know about that. Like basically, 471 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,360 Speaker 1: what they're saying is I don't want to that threatens me. 472 00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,240 Speaker 1: I don't want to talk about that, right, And I'm 473 00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:21,680 Speaker 1: not curious about getting to the bottom of this. I'm 474 00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 1: not curious about your viewpoint. I'm not curious about my 475 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,040 Speaker 1: own viewpoint. I don't want it to be challenged. Let's 476 00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:31,240 Speaker 1: stop talking. What is that a thought terminating something somebody 477 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 1: wrote in and told us once about, yeah, like statement 478 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:38,960 Speaker 1: or something yeah, or like um, let's agree to disagree, 479 00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: which I still think is valid. But yeah, I get it. 480 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:44,959 Speaker 1: I think maybe that's a last resort sort of thing, 481 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,960 Speaker 1: so you don't like start punching each other exactly that 482 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:51,680 Speaker 1: it goes hand in hand with digging your fingertips into 483 00:29:51,720 --> 00:29:57,760 Speaker 1: the arm of the chain. Exactly. Does someone smell burning sawdust? Oh, Josh, 484 00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,200 Speaker 1: is just across the bar. Uh. Another sort of fundamentalist 485 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,959 Speaker 1: trait that um can happen is uh. It's not always, 486 00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:09,080 Speaker 1: but it's a lot of times it's anti science. But 487 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,400 Speaker 1: at the same time, and we've talked about this a 488 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: little bit here and there, is it can go the 489 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:20,040 Speaker 1: other way. There are some people that are dogmatically fundamentalists, uh, 490 00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: believers in science to a degree that isn't may be helpful. Yeah, 491 00:30:25,520 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 1: that that basically, um uh goes away from the concept 492 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: of science that science is constantly looking for new answers 493 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,600 Speaker 1: and everything, and dogmatic science people are like, no, this 494 00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,440 Speaker 1: is it and let's stop, let's stop thinking about it anymore. 495 00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:42,560 Speaker 1: And if you challenge it, I'm not tolerant of that, 496 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:45,880 Speaker 1: and you're wrong, um that that is out there, but 497 00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 1: that's a an aberration. I think for the most part, 498 00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:51,120 Speaker 1: it's it is an anti science kind of thing because 499 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: science is part of modernization of society, and so that 500 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: makes it an enemy. It's an enemy especially of Christianity 501 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: or other religions as far as fundamentalism goes, Yeah, for sure. Uh. 502 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:05,480 Speaker 1: And then the last couple of things kind of go 503 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,120 Speaker 1: hand in hand. Is a lot of time, Um, fundamentalists 504 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:13,240 Speaker 1: can be conspiracy oriented. Uh, you know a lot of paranoia, 505 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 1: sort of dwelling about the and you know, it all 506 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:20,240 Speaker 1: comes from it all stems from them feeling threatened about X, 507 00:31:20,360 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: Y or z. Uh. And then they usually rally around 508 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,360 Speaker 1: some sort of charismatic leader, uh, whatever the group is whever, 509 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,120 Speaker 1: whether it's the Komeni. Even though that didn't maybe didn't 510 00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 1: translate to America as being a charismatic leader. Uh, he 511 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: certainly had his followers. Um, But it's usually a man. 512 00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:45,080 Speaker 1: They usually authoritarians and charismatic. Uh. They usually are bullies 513 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,440 Speaker 1: in some way or the other. And a lot of 514 00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:50,640 Speaker 1: times fundamentalists look at these people and admire the like 515 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 1: kind of wish they were like them, Like they're doing 516 00:31:53,600 --> 00:31:56,959 Speaker 1: the things that we would do if we were in power. Yeah, 517 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: Like I like a guy who can get up there 518 00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:01,160 Speaker 1: and talk about beating up are critics because I wish 519 00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:02,840 Speaker 1: I could punch him in the face and he's talking 520 00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 1: about it and it makes me feel so good. Yeah, 521 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,200 Speaker 1: that kind of thing UM, and that conspiracy thing in particular, 522 00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:12,320 Speaker 1: I was reading about that there's a huge overlap that's 523 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:17,719 Speaker 1: developed between Q and non beliefs and evangelical Christianity, and 524 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:23,000 Speaker 1: they have a lot in common about like end times apocalypticism. 525 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,360 Speaker 1: Just there's a lot of overlap. But but one of 526 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:29,040 Speaker 1: the things that I think is starting to become apparent 527 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:35,280 Speaker 1: is that people of faith, especially fundamentalists, because they are 528 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,760 Speaker 1: maybe the most people of the most faithful of the 529 00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:44,600 Speaker 1: faithful UM, are possibly more susceptible to conspiracy theories because 530 00:32:45,160 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: literalist religion, whereas like your your religious text is is infallible, 531 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,760 Speaker 1: there's no mistakes in it. It means everything literally, and 532 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,560 Speaker 1: where science or physics contradicts it, sciences physics is wrong. 533 00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:02,120 Speaker 1: That level of of of UM belief and something like 534 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: Q and on that's just that out there require faith, 535 00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:09,080 Speaker 1: and if you're already faithful to something like that, you 536 00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:13,480 Speaker 1: apparently are more susceptible to things like conspiracy theories that 537 00:33:13,560 --> 00:33:17,320 Speaker 1: require you to ignore facts and just take things on faith, 538 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,680 Speaker 1: and that that has kind of infected evangelicalism. Uh, something 539 00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,600 Speaker 1: like I think I saw on a five thirty eight 540 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: um blog that like a quarter of evangelicals in America 541 00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:32,239 Speaker 1: believe in Q and On too, which is that's a 542 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:34,400 Speaker 1: tremendous amount of people. I think a third of people 543 00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: in America are evangelical, So a quarter of that third 544 00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 1: subscribe to Q and onbeliefs belief. Well, yeah, and here's 545 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: something I don't think we maybe have hammered home enough 546 00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,720 Speaker 1: is that there is a large portion of of American 547 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:56,200 Speaker 1: religious people who are not fundamentalists and who did since 548 00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,400 Speaker 1: the beginnings of modernization try and roll with it and say, well, 549 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,040 Speaker 1: you know what, maybe the Bible isn't to be taken 550 00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:07,640 Speaker 1: so literally. Maybe these are allegories and metaphors. Maybe Noah 551 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 1: didn't literally take two of every living thing, and maybe 552 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: this red sea didn't literally part. Maybe these are all 553 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,560 Speaker 1: stories that we should draw inspiration or or our our 554 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: way of looking at the world from and and believe 555 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: in science. And they're combatible, uh not compatible compatible, Uh 556 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,680 Speaker 1: there are That is a very huge part of religion. 557 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,799 Speaker 1: So we're not painting religion with this single brush here. Uh, 558 00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: we're just talking about one one part of it, not 559 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:38,799 Speaker 1: at all. And some of the most vocal and outspoken 560 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:44,680 Speaker 1: opponents and scholars of fundamentalism are religious groups. Because you've 561 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:49,560 Speaker 1: got progressives and moderates in any given religion, and they've 562 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,840 Speaker 1: got fundamentalists who are trying to take over take control 563 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,160 Speaker 1: of their religious group. Uh, and that's a problem for them. 564 00:34:56,320 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: And it was evangelicals, moderate and liberal evangelicals who started 565 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:03,000 Speaker 1: telling the rest of the world like, hey, q and 566 00:35:03,040 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 1: On is making serious headways into our religious group, and 567 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,879 Speaker 1: it's a big problem and we need to figure out 568 00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 1: what's going on here. They were the ones who told 569 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:18,439 Speaker 1: everybody else basically. Yeah, And those fundamentalists, the progressive non 570 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:22,640 Speaker 1: literalists are in a way their enemy as well of 571 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:26,840 Speaker 1: the fundamentalists, you know, like within their own religion, The 572 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: progressive non literalists of like you know, the people say like, 573 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:32,920 Speaker 1: well maybe we should take the Bible is just a 574 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: metaphor their their enemies of the fundamentalists. Yeah. Absolutely, And 575 00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,840 Speaker 1: again that's where it started back in the eighteen seventies 576 00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,520 Speaker 1: and the original split right, Yeah, exactly. It was a 577 00:35:43,600 --> 00:35:48,640 Speaker 1: struggle within the Baptists and the Presbyterians for control over 578 00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,200 Speaker 1: the Baptists and the Presbyterians. These fundamentalists came up and said, 579 00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: stop accommodating modern society. You're straying away from the Word. 580 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,600 Speaker 1: And their beliefs got harder and harder and more and 581 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,080 Speaker 1: more and more literal, and they were a huge problem 582 00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:05,719 Speaker 1: for the Baptist send the Presbyterians for a while. Yeah 583 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,520 Speaker 1: for sure. All right, let's take our final break and 584 00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:11,680 Speaker 1: we'll talk about what history thinks about fundamentalism right after this, 585 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: So Chok, we talked about how fundamentalist groups say, they 586 00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 1: claim that they're taking society back to like this Golden 587 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,120 Speaker 1: Ages era where things were the way that the fundamentalists 588 00:36:40,160 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 1: wanted them before, right, And that doesn't seem to be true. 589 00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: But again, fundamentalists seemed to be a modern phenomenon, taking 590 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:50,000 Speaker 1: us in directions that we've never been in before, where 591 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,480 Speaker 1: the fundamentalists are the ones in charge, right. Um. And 592 00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:55,960 Speaker 1: one of the ways that they do that is by 593 00:36:56,440 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 1: selectively citing stuff in religious texts or in historical documents 594 00:37:03,719 --> 00:37:09,520 Speaker 1: that support their ideas and um the christian Um. American 595 00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:14,640 Speaker 1: Christian fundamentalists love to do that with UM, like historical 596 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:17,640 Speaker 1: documents from the founding of the United States and even 597 00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,520 Speaker 1: back when the United States was just some colonies as 598 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: British colonies. Yeah, because a lot of those documents say 599 00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,160 Speaker 1: the word God and mentioned God, whether it's the Charter, 600 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: the original charter for Virginia in the early sixteen hundreds, 601 00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:36,919 Speaker 1: to George Washington saying that the drafting of the Constitution 602 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,000 Speaker 1: was an event that was in the hand of God. 603 00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:46,040 Speaker 1: Um fundamentalists say, hey, George Washington is George Washington. He 604 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:50,799 Speaker 1: also mentioned God. And it's also he also says that 605 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:55,840 Speaker 1: you shouldn't compromise because the Constitution was written in the 606 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 1: in the hand of God, and so that kind of 607 00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:01,040 Speaker 1: takes all the boxes as far as drawn a line 608 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,799 Speaker 1: in the sand. But again, all this stuff is sort 609 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:05,440 Speaker 1: of out of context. And when you go back and 610 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: you look at what the original Charter of Virginia meant 611 00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: and why it was written, or what George Washington meant 612 00:38:13,120 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: and what ultimately made it into the Constitution, which was 613 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 1: not the word God, you really got to look at 614 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,440 Speaker 1: that in context, like what was what was the deal 615 00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:23,480 Speaker 1: with a Virginia Charter. So the Virginia Charter said that 616 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,080 Speaker 1: one of the colonists goals was to propagate the Christian 617 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:29,359 Speaker 1: religion to the indigenous people that they met there, although 618 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 1: they didn't call them indigenous people. Um And if you 619 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:35,560 Speaker 1: look at the Virginia Charter from six o six, it 620 00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,800 Speaker 1: was written by people who were British, who were corporate 621 00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:42,360 Speaker 1: shareholders who lived in London, who were ruled by the crown, 622 00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:45,160 Speaker 1: and their aim was not to form a new nation, 623 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,840 Speaker 1: and just Christianizing the indigenous people they met there just 624 00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 1: added legitimacy to this commercial pursuit that they were undertaking. 625 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,960 Speaker 1: It's it's pretty flimsy as far as like a proof 626 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,040 Speaker 1: that America was founded as a Christian nation that in 627 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,160 Speaker 1: the menalists need to take back. Yeah. Yeah, that's a 628 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: good point. And like I said, the word God didn't 629 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,040 Speaker 1: make it into the Constitution. The word science did. In 630 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 1: Section eight Article one, UH promote the progress of science 631 00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:16,800 Speaker 1: and useful arts by securing for limited times to authors 632 00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:20,520 Speaker 1: and inventors the exclusive right to their respective writings and discoveries. 633 00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 1: Um And you know, America may have been founded on 634 00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:29,080 Speaker 1: Christian principles, but this is important. Very early on, you know, 635 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:31,040 Speaker 1: I think what was it like a hundred and fifty 636 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: years after the Puritan colony of Plymouth was was founded. 637 00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:39,080 Speaker 1: The Christian experiment in government in America was over, and 638 00:39:39,120 --> 00:39:41,440 Speaker 1: they said, no, we're going to found the federal government. 639 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,200 Speaker 1: And Thomas Jefferson said, we're going to separate church and 640 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:47,319 Speaker 1: state because we're going down a bad road. Yeah. Even 641 00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:49,960 Speaker 1: if you know, George Washington meant what he said about 642 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,560 Speaker 1: being in the hand of God, and he was a 643 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:54,240 Speaker 1: Christian and a lot of the other founding fathers were Christians, 644 00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:57,360 Speaker 1: and um, they had Christian beliefs. But when it came 645 00:39:57,360 --> 00:40:01,120 Speaker 1: time to found the United States of a America, it's 646 00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:03,799 Speaker 1: not like they hadn't considered like there, they hadn't even 647 00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:07,000 Speaker 1: crossed their mind to to found a Christian nation. There 648 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,200 Speaker 1: have been Christian governments in North America already, and they said, no, 649 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,840 Speaker 1: we're going to abandon that and go a different direction. 650 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:18,880 Speaker 1: So literally, America was purposefully not founded as a Christian nation. 651 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: It could have been, had every opportunity to be, and 652 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,400 Speaker 1: it wasn't. And the point is, I mean, Chuck, we 653 00:40:24,440 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: could make an entire spinoff podcast just going tip for 654 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:33,520 Speaker 1: tat on on contexts and liberalism with fundamentalism. But the 655 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:38,440 Speaker 1: point is society's evolved, so it doesn't matter what was 656 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:41,080 Speaker 1: going on four years ago. Like, yes, they did a 657 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,279 Speaker 1: really good job writing in the constitution, founding some some 658 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:48,640 Speaker 1: are creating some really great guiding documents. But society has 659 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:52,160 Speaker 1: evolved since then. It's become much more diverse, much more 660 00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:57,040 Speaker 1: culturally rich, and we've just changed, most people say for 661 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: the better. And there's a lot wrong with it. It 662 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,400 Speaker 1: was modern sty There's a lot right that if you 663 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 1: had the choice, you would not want to go back 664 00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 1: to sixteen o six and live um compared to today. Yeah, 665 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:14,839 Speaker 1: and modernism is really basically what sociologists think is why 666 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:20,160 Speaker 1: fundamentalism still exists as as a response to modernization. And 667 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:23,680 Speaker 1: you know, modernization has it's ups and its downs over 668 00:41:23,719 --> 00:41:28,040 Speaker 1: the years. It's has been perfect. Pre modernization, though there 669 00:41:28,200 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: was people were a lot more the same, uh they 670 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:33,399 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked about this before. You know, pre 671 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:38,120 Speaker 1: urban uh sort of factory work settings, people lived on farms, 672 00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,600 Speaker 1: they lived on on the land and worked the land, 673 00:41:40,640 --> 00:41:42,680 Speaker 1: and they lived in the fields, and they were a 674 00:41:42,719 --> 00:41:44,799 Speaker 1: lot more alike and there were a lot more like 675 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:48,640 Speaker 1: sort of the same group of people. And industrialization came 676 00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:53,880 Speaker 1: along and it fragmented society and entirely different people started 677 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: to become people like, it changed the way people were. 678 00:41:58,320 --> 00:41:59,920 Speaker 1: It didn't just change how they went to work in 679 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:04,640 Speaker 1: where they live. All that inherently changed what people could 680 00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:09,759 Speaker 1: be like. And uh, social values changed and that's a 681 00:42:09,800 --> 00:42:12,640 Speaker 1: part of modernization. And you know, for better or for worse, 682 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:15,400 Speaker 1: we it is is fragmented us and there's been a 683 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,680 Speaker 1: lot of negative aspects to it, but it's also come 684 00:42:18,719 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: along with protection of civil rights and racial and gender 685 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:26,560 Speaker 1: equality and uh, you know the World Wide Web, which 686 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: is you know, we can all agree with the best 687 00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:32,000 Speaker 1: thing ever, right, it's flawless, no downside. But but yeah, 688 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:35,400 Speaker 1: I mean it would be ridiculous to say that modern 689 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,200 Speaker 1: society is just you know, perfect or even generally better 690 00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,359 Speaker 1: in every single way. Now, there's plenty of stuff that's 691 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,799 Speaker 1: wrong with it, like um, the emphasis on industry and 692 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,640 Speaker 1: profits and and um can can be really isolating and 693 00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:51,880 Speaker 1: make people feel like there's they're they're just basically a 694 00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,600 Speaker 1: cog in a machine. That's a big problem. But yes, 695 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,480 Speaker 1: there are there are plenty of solutions and plenty of 696 00:42:57,480 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 1: things that have gotten better too. And one of the 697 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:03,279 Speaker 1: things about modern society is that we have brought more 698 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:05,480 Speaker 1: and more different people together who have more and more 699 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,000 Speaker 1: different ideas and experiences, and it's become clear that no 700 00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:13,160 Speaker 1: one group is right or has all the answers, or 701 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: is the guardians of the truth. It's just been shown 702 00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: not to be correct. And um, these a pair of 703 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,040 Speaker 1: sociologists kind of put it, uh, Michael O. Emerson and 704 00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:25,520 Speaker 1: David Hartman. They said, when when you have when you 705 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,120 Speaker 1: bring together people of differing views and values, what rise 706 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:32,520 Speaker 1: to the top has shared values are tolerance and acceptance, 707 00:43:32,760 --> 00:43:36,600 Speaker 1: and that these become the core values of highly modernized societies. 708 00:43:37,000 --> 00:43:39,680 Speaker 1: And that is great for most of us. But if 709 00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:42,880 Speaker 1: you're a fundamentalist, that is the opposite of great. That 710 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,319 Speaker 1: is the opposite direction that you're supposed to be going. 711 00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: Because not everybody's right. We're the only ones that are right. 712 00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,160 Speaker 1: All of you are wrong, and you're wrong in a 713 00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: really terrible way that we have to change, so we 714 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,880 Speaker 1: have to take over society. Yeah, I mean, you know, 715 00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: one of the big threats to fundamentalist and why they've 716 00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:04,319 Speaker 1: think dug in more and more over the years is 717 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:07,920 Speaker 1: it's science is coming along to demystify a lot of 718 00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:11,520 Speaker 1: the things since the dawn of time that we're you know, 719 00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:15,560 Speaker 1: took took tried to explain you know, the seasons and 720 00:44:15,719 --> 00:44:20,480 Speaker 1: rain and thunder and death, and you know, in various ways, 721 00:44:20,520 --> 00:44:23,040 Speaker 1: and people since then have been trying to explain that stuff. 722 00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:26,040 Speaker 1: Then science progresses and comes along and says, oh, wait 723 00:44:26,040 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: a minute. You know, we can explain natural selection. Now 724 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:32,839 Speaker 1: we can explain gravity, we can explain electro magnetism, and 725 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:34,879 Speaker 1: you know, we know why the apple falls from the tree. 726 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:37,759 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to be some magical thing or some 727 00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:42,720 Speaker 1: religious allegory. And so what that does is that pushes 728 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:46,400 Speaker 1: religion out a little bit because fewer people needed it 729 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,360 Speaker 1: to explain things, which can be a big part of religion, 730 00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,960 Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, religion wasn't like the overriding 731 00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,040 Speaker 1: fabric of society, but it was just a part of society. 732 00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: And that that's a big threat a fundamentalist. Yeah, because 733 00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people just say, okay, well science makes 734 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,840 Speaker 1: a lot of sense to me. I'm not gonna abandon 735 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:09,759 Speaker 1: my religious beliefs. I still believe in God and Jesus 736 00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,200 Speaker 1: or Mohammed or buddha Um I like I'm going, like 737 00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:17,920 Speaker 1: you said earlier, I find those things compatible, not combatible. 738 00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:23,480 Speaker 1: But there's a group of people who are just find 739 00:45:23,480 --> 00:45:26,720 Speaker 1: this unbearable. Modern society is just unbearable. It doesn't make sense. 740 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,520 Speaker 1: I don't know the people who live around me. Um, 741 00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:32,080 Speaker 1: I'm not valued like I used to be or like 742 00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:36,080 Speaker 1: my great great grandfather was. Um, my wife is working 743 00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:38,319 Speaker 1: out of the house. What's up with that kind of thing? 744 00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:44,759 Speaker 1: And um, Rather than their their beliefs loosening and progressing, 745 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:51,080 Speaker 1: they actually become more inflexible, more rigid as as society 746 00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,560 Speaker 1: continues to progress and their beliefs are left behind because 747 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:57,359 Speaker 1: they feel left behind, so they actually come to rail 748 00:45:57,440 --> 00:46:01,600 Speaker 1: against society and that these are the will who become fundamentalists. 749 00:46:01,880 --> 00:46:04,800 Speaker 1: So part of it is feeling left out, left behind 750 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: or um opposed by society in general. That's part of it. 751 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,279 Speaker 1: But then also part of it is that attraction of um, 752 00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,280 Speaker 1: you know, somebody having all the answers in a really 753 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,279 Speaker 1: frankly confusing period of history, which is what we're in 754 00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,200 Speaker 1: right now. Yeah, And you know when people get together 755 00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:27,640 Speaker 1: and isolate themselves from others and say we're the only 756 00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:29,920 Speaker 1: ones that are right, and hey, we need to get 757 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,200 Speaker 1: involved in politics and get a candidate that things like 758 00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:35,439 Speaker 1: us out there, you kind of get where we are today, 759 00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:39,960 Speaker 1: which is like you said, it's a pretty Oh what's 760 00:46:40,000 --> 00:46:46,120 Speaker 1: the word scary is too easy? Uncertain? Yeah, I mean 761 00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:49,239 Speaker 1: it is uncertain. Like things are changing so fast right now, 762 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 1: it's totally understandable why fundamentalist movements would be swelling. It's 763 00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: scary as as heck. Right now, I feel like the 764 00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:03,280 Speaker 1: world is way more nuts than it was maybe thirty 765 00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,880 Speaker 1: years ago. Maybe that's true, maybe it's not. It seems 766 00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:08,680 Speaker 1: like it to me, and I think it's because of 767 00:47:08,680 --> 00:47:13,719 Speaker 1: this incredibly rapid social change. For me, society is generally 768 00:47:13,800 --> 00:47:16,239 Speaker 1: going in the direction that I agree with, so I'm 769 00:47:16,239 --> 00:47:20,000 Speaker 1: not threatened by it, even though I'm still just overwhelmed 770 00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,319 Speaker 1: by how fast things are changing, and then also by 771 00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,840 Speaker 1: how much tension there is from opposing sides to that change. Um, 772 00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:31,520 Speaker 1: it's a really unsettling and unsettled time, I think. So 773 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,600 Speaker 1: I can totally understand why fundamentalism would be so attractive 774 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:39,480 Speaker 1: to so many people right now. Um. But again, one 775 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:42,280 Speaker 1: of the tenets of fundamentalism, Chuck, is if you can't 776 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,880 Speaker 1: take over the ship, sink it. That's that's basically the 777 00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:49,400 Speaker 1: second way fundamentalism in a nutshell. So they can't be ignored. 778 00:47:49,520 --> 00:47:52,719 Speaker 1: Society can't just ignore it. We have to figure out 779 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,520 Speaker 1: what to do about fundamentalist impulses. And there's some good ideas, 780 00:47:57,560 --> 00:48:00,879 Speaker 1: some not good ideas. Uh, and so that maybe worth 781 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:03,239 Speaker 1: trying and not worth trying. But we're still kind of 782 00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:06,960 Speaker 1: in the very beginning stages of figuring out how to 783 00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:14,760 Speaker 1: reconcile modernized society with fundamentalist impulses. Got any ideas well? 784 00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:19,120 Speaker 1: I saw one pair of sociologists who wrote a book 785 00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:23,759 Speaker 1: suggested that everybody should just read more fiction. Okay, I 786 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,240 Speaker 1: couldn't believe that that was they meant that literally, because 787 00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:30,320 Speaker 1: they um they say that if you read more fiction, 788 00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,160 Speaker 1: it can kind of transport you into other people's experiences 789 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,959 Speaker 1: and points of view and will foster tolerance, which again, 790 00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:40,040 Speaker 1: intolerance is the hallmark of of fundamentalism. I'll throw one 791 00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,240 Speaker 1: out there. I just thought of off the dome, travel 792 00:48:43,520 --> 00:48:46,960 Speaker 1: someplace that you may not ordinarily travel, it's a big one. 793 00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,480 Speaker 1: Or travel someplace period. Yeah, if you can. I know 794 00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,040 Speaker 1: it's a financial burden for some and now everyone can 795 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:55,320 Speaker 1: just like jet off to Paris to see how the 796 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,480 Speaker 1: Parisians live. No, but it turns out you are allowed 797 00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:06,520 Speaker 1: to leave ohio, Oh no, I that's true. Another thing 798 00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,800 Speaker 1: that they say can help is to be more tolerant 799 00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 1: yourself and to be friendly and to approach a fundamentalist 800 00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,839 Speaker 1: with friendship, because one kind of criticism you'll hear from 801 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:22,440 Speaker 1: fundamentalists is sort of thrown it right back in the 802 00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:24,960 Speaker 1: face of a non fundamentalist and say, you're in just 803 00:49:25,080 --> 00:49:27,200 Speaker 1: as intolerant of my beliefs as I am of yours. 804 00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,040 Speaker 1: I think a counter to that would be to say, well, 805 00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:35,120 Speaker 1: know what we're intolerant of is your extreme intolerance, which 806 00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:37,920 Speaker 1: is a big distinction. Yeah, and that's like you're you're 807 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,520 Speaker 1: intolerant of my racism. It's like that's not a great argument. Yeah, 808 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:44,359 Speaker 1: but that's like one of those things that it's like, Okay, well, yeah, 809 00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,200 Speaker 1: you can't just be tolerant of everything, Like there is 810 00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:51,360 Speaker 1: a line, and like, you know, racism is a really 811 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,759 Speaker 1: good example of that. It's a really great line that 812 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,640 Speaker 1: society shouldn't just be tolerant of that. But you know, 813 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:01,360 Speaker 1: how can you figure out how to apply tolerance to 814 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: the people who feel that way? Like, can can you 815 00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,760 Speaker 1: be tolerant on an individual level as as their neighbor 816 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,640 Speaker 1: or their coworker or the fellow grocery store shopper, to 817 00:50:10,760 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: where you can display some form of tolerance with them 818 00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:19,160 Speaker 1: without supporting or or allowing their their you know, tolerance 819 00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:22,760 Speaker 1: for their beliefs, of their racist beliefs. You know, it's 820 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:27,120 Speaker 1: it's I think the reason why we are not a 821 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,680 Speaker 1: fundamentalist podcast, Chuck, is because we're not saying this is 822 00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,759 Speaker 1: the answer, this is this is what you do. There 823 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:34,799 Speaker 1: aren't any answers right now, but there's a lot of 824 00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 1: different ideas floating around that could work or might not. 825 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 1: I think of music can be united. I think sports 826 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:46,040 Speaker 1: fandom can be a uniter. Uh. I mean, you'll never 827 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: see a more tolerant, harmonious place than like at a 828 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:53,319 Speaker 1: Falcons game in the South and the Deep South, you know, 829 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:59,120 Speaker 1: black and white people like urban versus some of the 830 00:50:59,160 --> 00:51:02,480 Speaker 1: most rural, red, nicky type folks. You could imagine like 831 00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:06,480 Speaker 1: arm in arm for the same cause and it's a 832 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,759 Speaker 1: dumb football game. But like, there are small lessons to 833 00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:12,879 Speaker 1: be found. I think in those situations. Oh yeah, for sure. 834 00:51:12,880 --> 00:51:16,720 Speaker 1: I remember um reading a study years back that people 835 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:22,680 Speaker 1: who were super racist who lived in towns where Um 836 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:27,640 Speaker 1: like Hispanic I can never remember Latin Latin X people 837 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:29,960 Speaker 1: had come to live. There was like a large population 838 00:51:29,960 --> 00:51:33,080 Speaker 1: of Latin X people to where they lived among them, 839 00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:38,239 Speaker 1: where they might still support like immigration policies um or 840 00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,000 Speaker 1: anti immigration policies, but they would be like, but not 841 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:44,839 Speaker 1: my town. Like they had developed tolerance without even realizing it, 842 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:47,840 Speaker 1: and their their overall beliefs hadn't caught up yet. So 843 00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,480 Speaker 1: maybe they were still voting one way, but as far 844 00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,040 Speaker 1: as that person that they knew down the street, they 845 00:51:53,040 --> 00:51:55,440 Speaker 1: were not about to let that person get deported. Not 846 00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,799 Speaker 1: my town kind of thing. And yeah, so I think 847 00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,480 Speaker 1: whether it's a Falcons game or a like a musical 848 00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:06,880 Speaker 1: rock concert um, bringing people of you know, disparate backgrounds 849 00:52:06,920 --> 00:52:10,359 Speaker 1: together does foster tolerance, I think too. And you know 850 00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:13,560 Speaker 1: it may not. I'm not saying that. Uh, these people 851 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:15,960 Speaker 1: of the Falcons game walk out of there forging lifelong 852 00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,560 Speaker 1: friendships and they're like, you know what, why don't we 853 00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:21,719 Speaker 1: get together tomorrow for lunch? But you know, there are 854 00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:25,239 Speaker 1: there are small experiences that maybe can add up to 855 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,080 Speaker 1: something at some point in life. I don't know. I'm like, 856 00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:31,799 Speaker 1: I feel desperate for people to get along better. Yeah, 857 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:34,399 Speaker 1: for sure. And there are people out there who are saying, like, 858 00:52:34,440 --> 00:52:36,399 Speaker 1: what are you talking about? No, we should not even 859 00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:41,160 Speaker 1: be we should be isolating people with racist beliefs. Um. No, 860 00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:44,120 Speaker 1: it's not enough to just have somebody like have fun 861 00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:46,800 Speaker 1: at the Falcons game. Like, we're way beyond that point. 862 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,160 Speaker 1: And I mean I get that argument too, Like I 863 00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:51,400 Speaker 1: don't necessarily subscribe to it, but I can get how 864 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,120 Speaker 1: people are like, No, we're at like five alarmed stage. 865 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:58,320 Speaker 1: We need to figure out huge radical responses of fundamentalism 866 00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,200 Speaker 1: right now because they're knocking at the door of our 867 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,839 Speaker 1: the highest levels of government. And if they are an 868 00:53:04,840 --> 00:53:08,399 Speaker 1: infection on society, we've got huge problems because they are 869 00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:13,479 Speaker 1: growing and gaining strength. So I totally get both. Both 870 00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:19,319 Speaker 1: arguments are both ways. Yeah, one other thing I think, Yeah, 871 00:53:19,360 --> 00:53:22,640 Speaker 1: one more thing. Um, So, religion has a place in 872 00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,960 Speaker 1: modernized society. It helps people from feeling totally crazy. Um, 873 00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:29,719 Speaker 1: if you need a sense of community, go join a 874 00:53:29,719 --> 00:53:32,280 Speaker 1: religious group that's like a built in, ready made community 875 00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,600 Speaker 1: for you. Who's going to accept you into it? Moderate 876 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:40,720 Speaker 1: and progressive, I should say, um groups. Um, But there's 877 00:53:40,880 --> 00:53:44,319 Speaker 1: the religion doesn't have to be the only institution in 878 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:51,240 Speaker 1: society that addresses things like angst and unease and um, 879 00:53:51,280 --> 00:53:54,359 Speaker 1: you know a need for reassurance, Like what if society, 880 00:53:54,440 --> 00:53:58,240 Speaker 1: what if? What if? Science? What if? Um a culture 881 00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:02,000 Speaker 1: in general just kind of undertook the project of finding 882 00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:08,080 Speaker 1: meaning in this crazy modern world and like helping reassure people. 883 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:13,080 Speaker 1: Like that's what people join fundamentalist movements for is reassurance. Ultimately, 884 00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,760 Speaker 1: that is the basis of joining a fundamentalist movement. They 885 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,480 Speaker 1: want to feel reassured that everything is going to be okay. 886 00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:24,240 Speaker 1: And if you can find equally reassuring alternatives to fundamentalism, 887 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:26,959 Speaker 1: I would guess that fundamentalism. I don't think it would 888 00:54:26,960 --> 00:54:29,600 Speaker 1: ever fully go away. There's always going to be fundamentalists, 889 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:32,759 Speaker 1: but they would be so increasingly small an insular that 890 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:35,919 Speaker 1: you could conceivably just generally let them do their own 891 00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:43,959 Speaker 1: thing and tolerate them. Maybe. So Okay, that's it, he said, 892 00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:48,080 Speaker 1: with a resigned sigh. Uh. Well, I'm just gonna ask 893 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:50,319 Speaker 1: just to button it up. You've got anything else. I 894 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,040 Speaker 1: got nothing else. I don't either, Chuck. If you want 895 00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,759 Speaker 1: to know more about fundamentalism, start researching it. There's a 896 00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,360 Speaker 1: lot out there that will probably open your eyes. And 897 00:54:58,440 --> 00:55:00,640 Speaker 1: since I said open your is, it's time for a 898 00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:07,680 Speaker 1: listener mail. Uh, this is about basectomies. And by the way, 899 00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:10,280 Speaker 1: we heard from a few dudes that are that already 900 00:55:10,320 --> 00:55:13,200 Speaker 1: have said, and this is day one of getting emails 901 00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,720 Speaker 1: in real time, that hey, vasectomies aren't quite as painless 902 00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:18,239 Speaker 1: as y'all made it out to be by the way, 903 00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,560 Speaker 1: I guess it can vary obviously from person to person, 904 00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:23,960 Speaker 1: but we've had quite a few guys that were like 905 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,239 Speaker 1: it heard bad for a couple of days, and I 906 00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:28,680 Speaker 1: was very uncomfortable for a couple of weeks. Poor guys. 907 00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:31,399 Speaker 1: So I just wanted to say that, hey, guys, listen 908 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:33,759 Speaker 1: to the basectomy episode. I have to say you're doing 909 00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:37,080 Speaker 1: a great service by disseminating this information. I'm a twenty 910 00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:39,920 Speaker 1: six year old who's been with my wife for almost 911 00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,200 Speaker 1: nine years. We've talked, oh well I got married young, 912 00:55:43,320 --> 00:55:46,359 Speaker 1: Good for you. We've talked about not wanting children for years, 913 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:50,040 Speaker 1: but made the jump to getting mesectomy in July. For me, 914 00:55:50,120 --> 00:55:52,440 Speaker 1: it was relatively painless, but for the rest of that 915 00:55:52,520 --> 00:55:55,000 Speaker 1: day it did feel like someone had landed a low 916 00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,719 Speaker 1: below punch. Uh. The next day I had little pain 917 00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,400 Speaker 1: with use of ice packs. Uh, it was fine, and 918 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,160 Speaker 1: by day three I was back to exercising. After a 919 00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,920 Speaker 1: couple of months, I feel psychologically and sexually liberated. Our 920 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,239 Speaker 1: friends stated their concerns on how we would move on 921 00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:16,800 Speaker 1: if regret crept in. Since we made this decision about 922 00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:20,560 Speaker 1: not wanting children, um, having biological children is not a concern, 923 00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:23,400 Speaker 1: and if we ever regret it, because life is never definite, 924 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:26,840 Speaker 1: we can look at adopting highly about all the answers, 925 00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:30,560 Speaker 1: he should start a fundamentalist group, got all answers. You 926 00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:33,640 Speaker 1: guys mentioned that should be called a asodomy because there 927 00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:36,840 Speaker 1: isn't anything removed. But with my procedure and for others 928 00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:41,640 Speaker 1: I've seen on YouTube, they remove about one centimeter of 929 00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:45,640 Speaker 1: the vase completely and send it to a tissue sampling, 930 00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:49,719 Speaker 1: so technically ectomy still works in this case. Thank you 931 00:56:49,719 --> 00:56:51,960 Speaker 1: for the years of knowledge and entertainment. YouTube. Put special 932 00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:58,600 Speaker 1: comfort in the podcast realm wishing you Unburdened ejaculations that 933 00:56:58,760 --> 00:57:02,359 Speaker 1: is from Ryan. Very nice, Ryan, thank you and for 934 00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:06,279 Speaker 1: everyone here in the United States. About one centimeter of 935 00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:10,080 Speaker 1: best differences point three nine three seven zero zero seven. 936 00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:15,360 Speaker 1: Well done. Uh. If you want to be like Ryan 937 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:18,360 Speaker 1: and share your viewpoints and have us be like wow, 938 00:57:18,400 --> 00:57:21,360 Speaker 1: this guy really knows what he's talking about, you can 939 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,240 Speaker 1: send us an email too, and guy of course, is 940 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,720 Speaker 1: as always gender neutral, because we're in a modern society 941 00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:30,720 Speaker 1: and we love that fact. Anyway, you can send us 942 00:57:30,760 --> 00:57:37,680 Speaker 1: that email to stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. 943 00:57:37,760 --> 00:57:40,040 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeart Radio. 944 00:57:40,560 --> 00:57:43,080 Speaker 1: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the i heart 945 00:57:43,120 --> 00:57:46,080 Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 946 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:46,840 Speaker 1: favorite shows.