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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio News.

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Speaker 2: Hello and welcome to another episode of The Odd Lots podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joe Wisenthal and I'm.

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Speaker 3: Tracy all Away. We are eating pizza.

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Speaker 2: We're recording this July eighth, and we've done back to

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Speaker 2: back to back episodes and we haven't had time for lunch.

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Speaker 2: So I hi too, I'm going to eat this by

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Speaker 2: the pizza.

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Speaker 3: It's really good.

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Speaker 4: We're eating really.

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Speaker 2: Good pizza in the studio. It's a really good People

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Speaker 2: are probably wondering what's going on, why we're what's that

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Speaker 2: my food? But I swear we're not going to be

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Speaker 2: sounding like we're eating pizza the entire time. Maybe we'll

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Speaker 2: speak for yourself, okay, Tracy. A few months ago, I

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Speaker 2: noticed a new pizza restaurant had opened up in the

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Speaker 2: East Village, and I thought to myself, what kind of

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Speaker 2: person looks at the East Village and thinks, you know what,

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Speaker 2: this neighborhood needs a new pizza restaurant. And I've always

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Speaker 2: been sort of I've been vexed by that question for

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Speaker 2: a long time.

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Speaker 5: Wait, it's a saturated market. But on the other hand,

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Speaker 5: isn't like pizza in New York is slam dunk. Everyone

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Speaker 5: loves pizza. We come here for pizza, don't we.

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Speaker 2: I guess that's true. It just seems like there is

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Speaker 2: a lot of pizza in the East Village, and opening

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Speaker 2: up a new pizza place it's very capital intensive. There's

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Speaker 2: the stoves, there's the risk, there's the brand, there's all

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Speaker 2: these things. I would not have the guts to open

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Speaker 2: up a new pizza restaurant. I would just assume that

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Speaker 2: the market. I would just take the it's saturated view.

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Speaker 2: Maybe you have the more maybe you would be the

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Speaker 2: more optimistic and Entrepreneurial's going wrong with pizza? Okay, it's

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Speaker 2: New York City. I guess I could see it both ways.

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Speaker 2: But I did find it striking. And it is, of

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Speaker 2: course one of the most ubiquitous businesses that you see

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Speaker 2: at the ground level in New York City. Great pizza city.

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Speaker 2: And I don't really know anything about the business of pizza.

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Speaker 5: No, And we just spoke to a baker business that

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Speaker 5: is getting into the pizza business. So this is a

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Speaker 5: really nice segue and natural evolution of the conversations.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to know how you make money selling

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Speaker 2: a slice of pizza in New York city. I'm really excited.

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Speaker 2: We actually have three perfect guests in the studio today.

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Speaker 2: They brought us pizza, so there is a disclosure that

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Speaker 2: we have to get out of the way, which we

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Speaker 2: are eating the pizza that they brought us. So if

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Speaker 2: you listen to this episode and you think like we've

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Speaker 2: been like, you know, painfully bought off or whatever, then

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Speaker 2: this then that's why. It's because I had some pizza.

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Speaker 2: But it's also an interesting one because a this Pizza

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Speaker 2: Rea is right by Bloomberg, So that's another excuse for

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Speaker 2: why we're doing this one, but also to of the

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Speaker 2: owners of the restaurant also own a deli or cafe

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Speaker 2: near Bloomberg that I go to for lunch all the time,

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Speaker 2: the Oxford Cafe. I don't really like eating pizza for lunch,

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Speaker 2: if I'm being honest, it's a little heavy, but I

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Speaker 2: love a chopp salad, and the Oxford Cafe, which is

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Speaker 2: very close to Bloomberg, in my opinion, is the best

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Speaker 2: chopp salad operation in the entire city or that I've

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Speaker 2: been to, no for real, and so I'm sort of

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Speaker 2: curious about that how you differentiate there. So I just

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Speaker 2: want to learn about, like lunchtime food, including pizza. Let'st

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Speaker 2: our three guests. I'm going to introduce them. We're going

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Speaker 2: to be speaking with James Shields. He has a restaurant

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Speaker 2: here in New York City. He involved in multiple things,

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Speaker 2: but he is a co founder of Zeno's Pizza, which

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Speaker 2: is on fifty second Street between second and third. And

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Speaker 2: then we're also going to be speaking with the other

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Speaker 2: Zeno's co founders, Alex Xenopolis, who also owns the Oxford Cafe,

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Speaker 2: and his brother Evans Andopolis. So they're all involved in

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Speaker 2: multiple things in Evan and Alex and Oxford and James

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Speaker 2: and pizza, et cetera. And we're going to learn how

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Speaker 2: to make money selling a slice of pizza. So I'll

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Speaker 2: throw this out James or anyone else, but James, I'll

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Speaker 2: start with you. Why did you think there was capacity

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Speaker 2: or a reason when you looked at this location at

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Speaker 2: fifty second Street between second and third to think, you

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Speaker 2: know what, this area could use another pizza place?

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Speaker 4: Sure? I mean for us, it was clear during the

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Speaker 4: pandemic there was a great clearing event where a bunch

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Speaker 4: of you know, established places went out of business, and

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Speaker 4: Midtown specifically that area fifty second Street. In that corridor,

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Speaker 4: it was a bit of a pizza desert. And it's

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Speaker 4: not the same as like the East Village or the

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Speaker 4: West Village or Times Square or something like that, where

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Speaker 4: if you open up shop you're gonna immediately be in

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Speaker 4: a knife fight. So this was a green space for us.

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Speaker 4: And you know, me and Alex and Evan kind of

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Speaker 4: had this chance meeting through a friend of ours. You know,

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Speaker 4: they were looking for someone to do something with their

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Speaker 4: pizzeria which they had established at the mill, and we

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Speaker 4: got to talk and we knew a space that was

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Speaker 4: right across the street, and it just immediately clicked, and

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Speaker 4: we're like, we have a partnership here. We're gonna make

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Speaker 4: an honest go of it. Let's throw some money in

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Speaker 4: here and make this happen.

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Speaker 5: Okay, my first question is pineapple on pizza?

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Speaker 4: And yeah, okay, so I'm going to talk since I've

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Speaker 4: been making pizza.

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Speaker 5: And this is the important stuff exactly, So.

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Speaker 4: This is all near and dear in my heart. So

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Speaker 4: I'm okay with pineapple and ham on pizza. It depends

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Speaker 4: on the type. If you try to put it on neapolitan,

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Speaker 4: that's sacrilegious and then you're going to get like you're

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Speaker 4: gonna get your you know, pizza making card revoked. But

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Speaker 4: if you do it on like a New York Slice

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Speaker 4: or maybe in a Sicilian, then you know what you're

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Speaker 4: You're an okay territory and we can give you a pass.

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Speaker 5: I don't know how you guys are going to react

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Speaker 5: to this, but at my local pizza place in Connecticut,

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Speaker 5: they do a Hawaiian with cherries.

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Speaker 3: I love that so good.

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Speaker 4: So I've done it with supersada and ricotta, and if

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Speaker 4: you drizzle some of that like Maraschino cherry juice on it,

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Speaker 4: it just ties the whole thing together because you get

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Speaker 4: that salty that's sweet, and you get a little bit

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Speaker 4: of that like heat too.

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Speaker 6: I do find that question kind of interesting because Alex

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Speaker 6: by the way, sorry this is Alex, because you know

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Speaker 6: Italian's dewey prejudo with melon, right, so that it does

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Speaker 6: have a similar profile to ham and pineapple. So you know,

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Speaker 6: I've always found it like an interesting kind of I don't.

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Speaker 5: Know why it became so controversial. It seems like a

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Speaker 5: natural master.

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Speaker 2: There's me of like some Italian guy looking at a

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Speaker 2: pineapple on pizza, like get away here that nonsense and

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Speaker 2: then you see is the proshuodo repround melody. It's like, oh,

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Speaker 2: amazing delicacy.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, I personally I'm a traditionalist. That just when

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Speaker 1: we were like partnering up on this, our aim was

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Speaker 1: how do we make the best plane slice as well? Right,

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Speaker 1: And that's I feel one of the most important characteristics

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Speaker 1: in New York. So I've never been a big pineapple

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Speaker 1: on pizza person, but you know, how do you get

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Speaker 1: to that best plane slice? Is kind of one that

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Speaker 1: was one of our big motivating factors when we met

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Speaker 1: up and you know, trying to figure that out.

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Speaker 2: And that was Evan speaking, by the way, all right,

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Speaker 2: let's talk about that. So you guys, Evan and Alex,

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Speaker 2: you have background and other restaurants. I mentioned the Oxford Cafe,

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Speaker 2: which I highly recommend when you thought about, okay, you

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Speaker 2: want a partner and get involved in the pizza opportunity.

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Speaker 2: We've established that this area is of pizza desert. How

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Speaker 2: do you think about like this sort of where in

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Speaker 2: the market high end to low end, etcetera, is optimal

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Speaker 2: and what are the categories of the market that exists.

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Speaker 6: You know, it's a good question. You know, one of

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Speaker 6: the elements sad. Like James mentioned earlier, we had a

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Speaker 6: piece of section in our place on fifty second Lex

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Speaker 6: the Mill, and you know, before the pandemic, a large

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Speaker 6: component of that section's business was catering. So when we

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Speaker 6: were looking at this specific location, we signed the lease

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Speaker 6: before the omacrime variant and obviously there were issues kind

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Speaker 6: of with people coming back to the office afterwards and

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Speaker 6: things like that. So part of the when we were

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Speaker 6: looking at this location was the thinking was that we

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Speaker 6: would have a lot more catering, higher price point transactions

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Speaker 6: that was kind of sustained the business versus doing solely

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Speaker 6: kind of by the slice operations because that is a

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Speaker 6: lower ticket price involves a lot of transactions to really

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Speaker 6: get the volume and sales that you need to kind

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Speaker 6: of cover all the costs. I'm sure we'll discuss kind

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Speaker 6: of the elements of the business. So I think what

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Speaker 6: you've been seeing the last couple of years with a

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Speaker 6: lot of costs across the board for food and beverage,

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Speaker 6: it's become so much more difficult to operate. Everything's become

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Speaker 6: more expensive. You relying on third party services, you know,

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Speaker 6: different digital applications that all take a couple of points

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Speaker 6: from your business, right, So you know, you're seeing a

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Speaker 6: transition in New York in terms of pizza where people

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Speaker 6: are trying to go up the food chain to a

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Speaker 6: higher price point to be able to kind of cover

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Speaker 6: those expenses. So you're seeing a lot of kind of

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Speaker 6: traditional mom and pop places, clothes, dollar slice shops, even

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Speaker 6: really good ones that had you know, a lot of

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Speaker 6: you had a good reputation. You're seeing a lot of

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Speaker 6: those struggle as well. So you're seeing a big transition.

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Speaker 6: Whereas I'd say, you know, ten to fifteen years ago,

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Speaker 6: you know, you'd almost never see a pizza Rea close.

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Speaker 6: I mean, it was just really really unusual. Now you're

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Speaker 6: seeing kind of a lot of new entrants, a lot

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Speaker 6: of people exiting. So there's a churn that in the

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Speaker 6: business that just didn't exist.

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Speaker 5: How does pizza actually move up in terms of pricing

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Speaker 5: because I imagine you know, I love pizza, but it is

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Speaker 5: in some ways a humble product and there are limited

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Speaker 5: things you can do to it. So if you're trying

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Speaker 5: to charge more money for pizza by making it, I

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Speaker 5: don't know, like luxury pizza, does that work?

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Speaker 3: What do you do?

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Speaker 4: No? There's a window, right. And the way that Zenos

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Speaker 4: is kind of position within the marketplace is we're premium product,

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Speaker 4: premium price, so like we want to be on the

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Speaker 4: higher end, and we also want to use the best,

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Speaker 4: freshest quality ingredients that you're going to find in our marketplace, right,

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Speaker 4: because we want to stand behind what we we want

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Speaker 4: to eat, you know, really good healthy, fresh food every day. Right,

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Speaker 4: and that that even goes to like that facilitates the

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Speaker 4: process that we go through. So we ferment our dough

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Speaker 4: for forty eight hours, right, most slice joints in New

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Speaker 4: York City are like twenty four hours. And why why

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Speaker 4: is that different? Right? It makes the product a little

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Speaker 4: more healthy because the yeast are essentially digesting the gluten

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Speaker 4: and kind of softening the dough for your stomach to process. Right,

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Speaker 4: So it's it's something that doesn't sit in your stomach,

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Speaker 4: you know, and you feel that when you eat our slice,

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Speaker 4: you know, you don't leave the place being like, uh,

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Speaker 4: you know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I didn't realize this. This is why I don't really

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Speaker 2: usually eat pizza because I don't want to feel that

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Speaker 2: the end of the day. But I didn't realize that

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Speaker 2: this could be addressed by going more.

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Speaker 4: Preether, let me put you on the spot. How do

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Speaker 4: you feel right now after slice?

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Speaker 2: I've had two slices since we've started talking. I feel

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Speaker 2: okay right now?

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Speaker 4: All right, Wow, this is really I learned something eye opening, right,

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Speaker 4: And this this goes to the economics of like you

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Speaker 4: need additional storage in your walk in. You need to

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Speaker 4: process this a couple of days beforehand. So that means

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Speaker 4: if you get in order, you know, twenty four hours,

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Speaker 4: you're already twenty four hours behind in the process. Right. So,

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Speaker 4: like the logistics of this is quite impressive to manage

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Speaker 4: on a scale that we do it at.

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Speaker 2: What else makes a difference in terms of ingredient costs

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Speaker 2: and whether it's cheese, whether it's tomato, sauce, Like what

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Speaker 2: is the difference between your slice and.

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Speaker 4: A dollar slice? Yeah, so I'd say cheese is the

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Speaker 4: most expensive cost center that we have, more than meat,

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Speaker 4: more than any other thing. Right, But you've seen inflation

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Speaker 4: across the board, and also like it ties into tariffs

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Speaker 4: and things like that. We have you know, Italian based

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Speaker 4: products that you know, like can tomatoes and that kind

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Speaker 4: of thing that do get impacted. But cheese by far

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Speaker 4: is the biggest cost center.

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Speaker 5: One of the more random experiences I've had in my

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Speaker 5: life is talking to a pizza salesman in I think

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Speaker 5: it was Tanzania, of all places, like a door to

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Speaker 5: door pizza oven salesman, and one of the things I

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Speaker 5: internalized from that conversation was pizza ovens are really really tricky.

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Speaker 5: It seems very difficult to like get them exactly right.

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Speaker 5: So I'm curious how much equipment costs factor into the

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Speaker 5: business and how careful you have to be about that

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Speaker 5: sort of initial capital investment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I can jump in on that. This is Evan.

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Speaker 1: So we opened the restaurant actually three years ago this Sunday,

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Speaker 1: So three years ago.

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Speaker 4: But let's go.

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Speaker 1: We're looking at the equipment just as an example. So

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Speaker 1: our oven now it's Pizza Masters, everyone's using it. Everyone's

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Speaker 1: going electric now, which is definitely a big trend in

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Speaker 1: the City's obviously going against you know, gas powered girls

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Speaker 1: ovens and things like that. But we bought our oven

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Speaker 1: three years ago is thirty two thousand dollars it is

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Speaker 1: now I think forty five thousand. Wow, just as an

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Speaker 1: example of what.

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Speaker 5: I see one for ninety one thousand still.

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Speaker 1: That's the five deck we're at. We're at a three deck,

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Speaker 1: so we're a little bit less than that. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you're looking at that and then it's just all

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Speaker 1: the extra equipment. That's where it gets daunting, you know,

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Speaker 1: to open up and we're only a thousand square foot restaurant.

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Speaker 1: If you're doing like a fine dining restaurant, you can

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Speaker 1: even imagine, you know what the kitchen equipment is going to.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, so you're trying your best to you know,

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Speaker 1: make a business plan, keep your costs in order, but

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Speaker 1: you know you're getting low Boys fridges. Our pizza shreddle

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Speaker 1: costs low Boys fridge lower to the ground, but we

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Speaker 1: have a counter on top of it. Underneath there's just

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Speaker 1: fridge storage. Just as an example, our shredder costs five

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Speaker 1: thousand dollars. So you can see how all these little

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Speaker 1: things you keep adding into the business. Just keep adding

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Speaker 1: and adding and adding, and you're trying to get the

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Speaker 1: restaurant open as fast as possible. We had a hiccup

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Speaker 1: during our construction as we needed a smoke hog, which

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Speaker 1: is the ventilation precipitator, and ours got like back ordered

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Speaker 1: and we got delayed four months just waiting for one

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Speaker 1: piece of equipment which we could not open our business without.

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Speaker 5: Wasn't that the plot of an actual Bear episode? It

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Speaker 5: was something with the ventilator, right, Yeah, I'm sure it was.

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Speaker 1: The Bear Season two was perfect when they were building

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Speaker 1: out that restaurant in the kalas As, You're going through

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Speaker 1: it and yeah, go out to that.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean you mentioned earlier kind of like when

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Speaker 6: you're looking at a restaurant and the type of so,

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Speaker 6: I mean, the ideal situation is what's called black iron,

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Speaker 6: where you're essentially exhausting out through an exhausting an exhaust

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Speaker 6: fan and and you know, the city is very specific

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Speaker 6: about those types of buildings where you can do that

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Speaker 6: versus you know, in this situation, the type of we

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Speaker 6: have a precipitator that basically cleans the exhaust air and

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Speaker 6: is vented out onto the street. Right, So typically if

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Speaker 6: you have like open windows things like that, you're not

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Speaker 6: allowed to have normal kind of like black iron exhaust.

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Speaker 6: But yeah, during the pandemic, a lot of different types

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Speaker 6: of critical equipment were just non existent, and you know,

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Speaker 6: even for example, a walk in box. At some point,

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Speaker 6: I remember during the pandemic, people were tearing down old

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Speaker 6: restaurants and selling the old walk in box just you know,

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Speaker 6: fifteen year old panels, you know, and just like selling

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Speaker 6: it because people couldn't find them. And it was just

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Speaker 6: a rat race to try to find this equipment or

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Speaker 6: we're also electric equipment, you know, breakers things like that

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Speaker 6: were on back order from China. And I know there's

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Speaker 6: been some episodes on some of those issues on odd lots,

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Speaker 6: but you know, for restaurants where you know, time is money,

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Speaker 6: you're trying to you know, build a team, get out

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Speaker 6: ahead of you know, the rent and things like that,

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Speaker 6: and you know, it was just a nightmare trying to

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Speaker 6: pull it together.

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Speaker 2: How big of a challenge is labor and how skilled

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Speaker 2: is pizza labor? Like do they still have to twirl

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Speaker 2: the dough? Like is that a thing or is that

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Speaker 2: just like for show at Some restaurants talk to us

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Speaker 2: about the labor component of the business.

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Speaker 4: So it depends on the segment of pizza. So like

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Speaker 4: New York Slice and Sicilian and things like that, the

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Speaker 4: labor bar is a little bit lower, but for us

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Speaker 4: it's still very high end. Like we'll take probably at

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Speaker 4: least thirty candidates will trial, probably ten of them, and

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Speaker 4: then one guy might stay three months and one guy

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Speaker 4: I might stay two years. Who knows for wood fired

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Speaker 4: and coal fired, like like I have a wood fired

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Speaker 4: that's down in the West Village that is such an

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Speaker 4: artisanal product that to have a guy that actually knows

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Speaker 4: what he's doing can take six months to train and

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Speaker 4: then three years to understand, and then another five years

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Speaker 4: to really understand, you know, like it takes a lifetime

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Speaker 4: and you're just constantly learning.

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Speaker 5: I actually wanted to ask you about this, but why

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Speaker 5: did you decide to go electric with this particular oven

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Speaker 5: versus coal?

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Speaker 4: Or would great questions? So it was a mandate by

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Speaker 4: the building that we're in because we're in a you know,

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Speaker 4: a high rise, right. But it also has the added

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Speaker 4: benefit that the current is more consistent because you're drawing

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Speaker 4: the power and you're heating the product more consistently than

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Speaker 4: a flame which might ebb and flow in terms of temperature.

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Speaker 4: So our oven is more similar to like a tesla

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Speaker 4: than it is to actually like an oven. It's got

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Speaker 4: a lot of electronics in it, and we saw that

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Speaker 4: firsthand when we literally tore it apart on the street

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Speaker 4: the sidewalk, disassembled it moved it through the door because

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Speaker 4: it's a huge piece of equipment, and then reassembled it

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Speaker 4: within the space. It was so impressive. The pictures are incredible.

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Speaker 2: Just to bag up, Let's say Tracy and I wanted

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Speaker 2: to open up a pizza restaurant. How much money do

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Speaker 2: we have to have? Do we realistically? Both in terms

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Speaker 2: of like putting down money for rent, but then the

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Speaker 2: full like what kind of operation is this to get into?

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Speaker 1: If you're talking about ours, you know we did a

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Speaker 1: thousand square feet. The biggest mistake all restaurantsurs make is

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Speaker 1: they just don't have enough working capital after they open

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Speaker 1: the doors. So I would say, to be safe, you're

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Speaker 1: looking at minimum four hundred thousand, but probably in the

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Speaker 1: five to six hundred k range, just to give you

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Speaker 1: that extra cushion, because you know, I've been working with

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Speaker 1: my you know, my family's had restaurants in New York

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Speaker 1: since the eighties, and I you know, started in nine.

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Speaker 1: You would make your payback in like eighteen months. Now

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Speaker 1: we're looking with the way the expenses are. You know,

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Speaker 1: insurance is up twenty thirty percent since pree COVID labor.

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Speaker 1: You're looking at a three year time horizon often so,

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Speaker 1: and it takes so long sometimes for someone because we're

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Speaker 1: not a national right, so we're not getting that automatic

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Speaker 1: like press. So just as a mom and pop, you know,

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Speaker 1: you often need more time to get the marketing out there.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, five hundred to six hundred thousand seems like, right,

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Speaker 1: a good spot for like a thousand square feet.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, yeah, and this is in the QSR segment,

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Speaker 4: the quick serve restaurant. If it was full service you're

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Speaker 4: looking at, you know, seven hundred to a million, it

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Speaker 4: gets up there pretty pretty quickly.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, because I mean it's just more involved. Like let's

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Speaker 6: say in that space. You know, obviously the equipment and

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Speaker 6: those types of needs, the working capital needs are more

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Speaker 6: because the staffing needs are more expensive, but also just

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Speaker 6: the finishes like anything now in these days, you know,

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Speaker 6: services are so expensive, you know, whether it's electric, plumbing,

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Speaker 6: like all these different inputs that go into building a

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Speaker 6: restaurant are just that much more expensive. And you know,

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Speaker 6: I think that's just kind of the way it is

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Speaker 6: now post pandemic. These types of services are just very expensive.

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Speaker 6: So you know, for a restaurant, your cost of the

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Speaker 6: buildout is that much more expensive just because of that reality.

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Speaker 5: How does distribution work for you guys, because I imagine

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Speaker 5: this might be another big capital investment, and it's something

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Speaker 5: that came up when we were speaking to the baker earlier.

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Speaker 5: He pointed out that it's not just about making the bread.

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Speaker 5: You actually have to deliver it to your customers. When

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Speaker 5: I think about pizza, I think about pizza boxes. I

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Speaker 5: think about pizza boxes coming directly to my door, usually

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Speaker 5: around midnight or something like that. How do you actually

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Speaker 5: get the pizza out to customers.

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Speaker 1: I've kind of been involved in a lot of that,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it's like you just move heaven and earth

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Speaker 1: and you just need to get it there any way

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Speaker 1: you can. So obviously best cases, you know, we're really

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Speaker 1: focusing locally. We you know, love all the office clientele

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Speaker 1: in the area, and we've been doing a lot of

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Speaker 1: like quick deliveries, but you know, we're looking at orders

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Speaker 1: throughout the city and like there's been days where we'll

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Speaker 1: rent a U haul and just fill it up with

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Speaker 1: pizza boxes and get it down there. Yeah, I've brought

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Speaker 1: in you know, my personal car is I'm originally from

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Speaker 1: New Jersey, but had my personal car one day and

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Speaker 1: we had like a last minute, like huge order. I'm

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Speaker 1: just driving through the city in my personal car, you know,

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Speaker 1: so subways any way you can get it. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just one of those products where we have been

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Speaker 1: trying to focus locally because pizza, it does lose its

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Speaker 1: luster the further way you get right. Traveling when it's

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Speaker 1: stuck in the boxes can be an issue, but you know,

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Speaker 1: we just make it work and whatever it takes to

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Speaker 1: get it there on time.

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Speaker 2: What are your capacity countries. Let's say I'm at the office,

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Speaker 2: someone closes a big sale. It was like, this is great,

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Speaker 2: let's have a part tonight. Could I call you up? Like,

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Speaker 2: how quickly could I get thirty pizzas from you?

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Speaker 4: Thirty?

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Speaker 1: If you give us like three hours, we'll get it there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah for sure. I mean we've done that.

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Speaker 2: And what's the most number of pizzas you can have

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Speaker 2: cooking at one time? Like and inventory of pizzas that

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Speaker 2: you have already cooked, like talk to us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I mean we have a pretty decent through put.

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Speaker 4: So you know, we've done fifty to one hundred pieh orders,

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Speaker 4: you know, and it's all about timing and moisture control,

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Speaker 4: you know, the way that we design the dough. You know,

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Speaker 4: it's very efficient on the reheat is what we tend

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Speaker 4: to call. We're able to get that all out at once,

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Speaker 4: and we feed a lot of desks in midtown, like

434
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:40,200
Speaker 4: you know, shout out Jerry from Nomora by the way,

435
00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:42,800
Speaker 4: and black Rock and all those guys like you know,

436
00:20:43,440 --> 00:20:46,000
Speaker 4: so we're feeding the desk and you know, once they

437
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,879
Speaker 4: order from us, it's game over there weekly, right, So

438
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:51,879
Speaker 4: we're used to that kind of you know, throughput, and

439
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:55,040
Speaker 4: it is like Alex alluded to earlier, you know, it's

440
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 4: a functional part of our business. We really rely on

441
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:01,680
Speaker 4: catering and you know, the offices to really sustain us

442
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 4: in this one very very hyper local, you know, neighborhood.

443
00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:09,919
Speaker 5: So speaking of hyperlocal, do you tailor the menu for

444
00:21:10,119 --> 00:21:15,520
Speaker 5: that particular location or is pizza like a universal transportable

445
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,879
Speaker 5: good that can work basically anywhere in New York at least.

446
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 4: One hundred percent? You definitely tailor so at when I

447
00:21:22,920 --> 00:21:24,920
Speaker 4: designed the dough, I had a lot of things in mind,

448
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,560
Speaker 4: like this is a very vertical area, so we limit

449
00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:29,920
Speaker 4: the amount of blocks we go because by the time

450
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,320
Speaker 4: you take an elevator up and that guy comes back,

451
00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,840
Speaker 4: this is thirty minutes, you know, like he's gone, right.

452
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:38,440
Speaker 4: So that's why as owners, the collective three of us,

453
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:41,040
Speaker 4: you could see us running around Midtown East like in

454
00:21:41,119 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 4: carts and cars and U hauls and like we're all

455
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,040
Speaker 4: pitching in to kind of make this all happen.

456
00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:48,240
Speaker 5: But what about in terms of the actual menu, like

457
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 5: the pizza flavors and design.

458
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:54,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean yeah, we avoid specific items that don't

459
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:56,920
Speaker 4: hold up well in a box or lose their heat,

460
00:21:57,119 --> 00:21:59,520
Speaker 4: and you know it limits Like you don't want to

461
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,040
Speaker 4: do fish, right, You never do. You never see fish

462
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,400
Speaker 4: on pizza, right, it's rare.

463
00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,919
Speaker 5: My dad always ordered anchovy pizza. It was disgusting.

464
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,439
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's usually the cured stuff, not like you know,

465
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,120
Speaker 4: you're not going to get like sea bass on there,

466
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 4: sea bass vio pizza.

467
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:15,879
Speaker 3: Someone will do that.

468
00:22:16,960 --> 00:22:17,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure.

469
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 2: We talked about this sort of upfront capital costs. Let's

470
00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 2: try to work the math in the other direction, Like

471
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:26,840
Speaker 2: I buy a slice of pizza or I buy ten

472
00:22:26,920 --> 00:22:29,800
Speaker 2: slices of pizza. How much of what I'm paying for

473
00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,240
Speaker 2: is the labor that went into it? How much is

474
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,680
Speaker 2: it the wrong ingredient? And how much is it your

475
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 2: upfront capital outlay? And the profit you need to make

476
00:22:37,119 --> 00:22:38,639
Speaker 2: on your risk, Like talk to me about, like how

477
00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:40,560
Speaker 2: you're getting paid back for all these things. What's the

478
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:41,000
Speaker 2: math there?

479
00:22:41,359 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 4: So historically it's been thirty thirty, thirty, ten, right, Okay,

480
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:50,199
Speaker 4: so thirty fixed costs, thirty labor, thirty food costs, and

481
00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:53,480
Speaker 4: then ten percent profit. Right, that's like normal for New York.

482
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 4: If you're outside of New York, your profit gets a

483
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,200
Speaker 4: little bit higher, but you're also not doing as much volume,

484
00:22:58,280 --> 00:23:00,560
Speaker 4: so you can get like, yeah, you know, I mean

485
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,480
Speaker 4: shake Check's numbers. If you look at it, like seventeen

486
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,120
Speaker 4: percent profit margin for them, you know, they're bigger. They

487
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 4: can extract more value out of things, get better pricing.

488
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 4: But in New York City it's a little more cutthroat,

489
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,720
Speaker 4: and you might even get five percent profit margins or

490
00:23:13,760 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 4: no percent profit at all and you go out of business.

491
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,840
Speaker 2: Right, Are there items on a pizza restaurant menu or

492
00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,640
Speaker 2: options that are particularly high margin, like you know there's

493
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:25,639
Speaker 2: some X on this, but you really make your money

494
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: on why?

495
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:29,080
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you could have what's called lost leaders, right,

496
00:23:29,119 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 4: Like you have things that attract you to the place,

497
00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:33,760
Speaker 4: Like you know, stakes have a fifty percent margin, right,

498
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:36,440
Speaker 4: And when I said the thirty thirty ten. By the way,

499
00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:40,440
Speaker 4: it's changed in the last decade. Now your labor costs

500
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,879
Speaker 4: is forty five percent, you know, your food costs or

501
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 4: where you're trying to save a little bit more money

502
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,360
Speaker 4: by getting creative with the menu items. And then your

503
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 4: fixed costs. You know you're trying to limit those as well.

504
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:53,280
Speaker 4: But the variables have been through the roof, right, like

505
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:55,320
Speaker 4: the insurance has gone crazy.

506
00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:57,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, and just in terms of yeah, the one thing

507
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 1: that does attract most people to pizza rests is in general,

508
00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: your food cost is pretty good. Like you'll get if

509
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:06,359
Speaker 1: you're like really humming, you'll you'll get it like close

510
00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,439
Speaker 1: to twenty percent, which is you know most restaurants like

511
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,800
Speaker 1: our Oxford Cafe and similar QSRs like that, you're at

512
00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 1: the thirty to thirty five. So your food cost is

513
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,600
Speaker 1: the great component. It's now in New York ten percent

514
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 1: was the rule of thumb on rent. Everyone is now,

515
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,560
Speaker 1: you know, in the fifteen to seventeen percent range. So

516
00:24:24,119 --> 00:24:26,159
Speaker 1: there's all these different changes, and you know what you

517
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,239
Speaker 1: knew about, you know your cost structures, and you're just

518
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,080
Speaker 1: searching for new sales any way you can, and you

519
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:35,240
Speaker 1: know you're trying to keep the walkins growing. But yeah,

520
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:38,479
Speaker 1: it's just managing it. There's so many different expenses to manage.

521
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,760
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's just been a huge change since COVID.

522
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,240
Speaker 5: Well, this is something that keeps coming up, increased costs

523
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 5: in the restaurant business. What levers do you have to pull?

524
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:50,880
Speaker 5: What levers are available to you to try to keep

525
00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 5: those costs down because it seems like, you know, you

526
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:55,959
Speaker 5: need to hire people. Presumably you need to hire them

527
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:59,800
Speaker 5: at a competitive rate. You have a you know, a premium.

528
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:04,120
Speaker 5: It's a product, so you don't want to sacrifice quality. Insurance,

529
00:25:04,240 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 5: I'm guessing is not that negotiable.

530
00:25:07,119 --> 00:25:07,840
Speaker 3: What can you do?

531
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: It's just grow, grow, grow, you know, that's all you

532
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:13,640
Speaker 1: can do. I mean, recently, I've I've taken on from

533
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: all my businesses cold calling, you know. I've been looking

534
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 1: at you know, I'll look at directories of buildings. I'm

535
00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,440
Speaker 1: finding the company names, find the phone numbers, and I'm

536
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: just calling companies. And it's honestly, we've already netted like

537
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,640
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen new catering orders. So you just have

538
00:25:27,720 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: to keep growing. That's just that's just what it is.

539
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:32,399
Speaker 1: Because yeah, in terms of food costs. That's a good question.

540
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,200
Speaker 1: You also need to keep your purveyors honest. You need

541
00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 1: to have a book of other purveyors that constantly check pricing,

542
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: because yeah, we even you know, I've been in our restaurants,

543
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,600
Speaker 1: the Oxcar Cafe in the Mill. I mean, we had

544
00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: purveyors that had been serving us for twenty years and

545
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,280
Speaker 1: we kind of stopped checking, and all of a sudden,

546
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 1: you realize even people who are loyal to you are

547
00:25:51,160 --> 00:25:53,480
Speaker 1: jacking up little prices here and there. So you need

548
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:57,040
Speaker 1: to constantly be checking your invoices and doing your due

549
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,000
Speaker 1: diligence because it's on you to make sure nothing slides by.

550
00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,720
Speaker 6: The other thing I'd added, one of the challenges on

551
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:05,640
Speaker 6: sort of the vendors and purveyor side is that you've

552
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 6: also seen a lot of concentration occur over the last

553
00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:12,240
Speaker 6: like ten to twenty years, So it's also a challenge

554
00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:15,000
Speaker 6: to kind of be able to kind of price and

555
00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:18,480
Speaker 6: check with different suppliers and things like that. And one

556
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 6: of the interesting things that happened with the pandemic though,

557
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,960
Speaker 6: is that because everything became so expensive, you did start

558
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,200
Speaker 6: seeing a lot of jobbers, basically people kind of pulling

559
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,760
Speaker 6: up in the back of the truck, you know, kind

560
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 6: of bringing different products and things like that, and often

561
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:33,920
Speaker 6: able to kind of undercut the pricing a little bit.

562
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 6: But in general, especially on the supply side, there is

563
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 6: a lot of concentration there economically because just the nature

564
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 6: of the business now and the regulations and things like that,

565
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 6: there's just a lot of economic pressure that results in

566
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 6: this concentration.

567
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 5: Do you use a lot of third party services or

568
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 5: like outsource certain things to middlemen, because this again has

569
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 5: come up in a previous conversation, the idea that you're

570
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 5: spending more on just the middle guide to get things done.

571
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,919
Speaker 1: I guess so yeah, in terms of yeah, obviously, the

572
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 1: big one I know is all the third party delivery services.

573
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 1: You know, that's one of those you have to make

574
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: them work for you. Unfortunately, in this past week they

575
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: had capped third party fees at five percent after the

576
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: pandemic to help out restaurants. But starting August first, those

577
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,760
Speaker 1: rates are coming back up to twenty percent, So you'll

578
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:28,119
Speaker 1: be at twenty percent on that four percent on the

579
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: transaction fee, and then if you're using the third party

580
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:35,119
Speaker 1: services caviare, grub up, etc. For deliveries, they charge another

581
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: ten to fifteen percent. So I look at the prices

582
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: I charge on my restaurants, on my third party sites,

583
00:27:41,640 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: we're fifteen percent higher than our in house pricing often

584
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 1: because you need it to manage that expense. But I

585
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:50,120
Speaker 1: can't even imagine where it's going to go again August first,

586
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:53,600
Speaker 1: because people's prices are already crazy, and yeah, you need

587
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: to make your work. And with the pizzeria, we always

588
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,639
Speaker 1: felt we at least take our deliveries ourselves. We find,

589
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, with pizza, you wan like really good control

590
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:04,560
Speaker 1: of that. Someone who doesn't work at your restaurant, they're

591
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: just looking at that as a tip for themselves, So

592
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: you want to make sure your pizza is being delivered correctly.

593
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, that's one of the hardest costs to manage

594
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: because with deliveries you obviously paper, plastic goods, you know,

595
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:19,480
Speaker 1: everything that's going out, the costs just go crazy. And yeah,

596
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,879
Speaker 1: now if they're going to be charging fifteen percent more again,

597
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,040
Speaker 1: you know, it really adds up. So that's one thing

598
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,800
Speaker 1: we've been discussing actually this whole week, is how how

599
00:28:26,880 --> 00:28:28,720
Speaker 1: much are we going to have to increase prices to

600
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:31,200
Speaker 1: deal with that? You know, that shock again.

601
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 4: To just add to what Evan's saying. So in recent years,

602
00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 4: like less two years or so, venture capital has really

603
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,800
Speaker 4: stopped subsidizing these third party you know, websites, and they're

604
00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,400
Speaker 4: no longer offering these heavy discounts, and like they basically

605
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 4: bought the market, right, they offered this free you know,

606
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 4: you can get it instantaneous lunch, and then now we're

607
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:53,280
Speaker 4: actually going to rack up prices and like you know,

608
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 4: Uber specifically they did this with the taxis. They put

609
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,000
Speaker 4: everybody out of business, and then once they own the market,

610
00:28:58,160 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 4: they're like, all right, you know what, we're going to

611
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:01,000
Speaker 4: take our actual cut.

612
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:01,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

613
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 6: I mean they are like really parasitic entities. I've they've

614
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:08,920
Speaker 6: just distribed it.

615
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 2: Sure it sounds like you've thought.

616
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:18,080
Speaker 6: I mean, I mean they've really really disrupted the food industry.

617
00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,200
Speaker 6: And one of the elements that I feel like, you know,

618
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 6: future historians when they're looking back on this time and

619
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 6: really thinking about kind of the American and you know,

620
00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 6: what's like the defining aspect of the American and it's like,

621
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 6: you know, they want convenience and these companies are trying

622
00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 6: to fulfill that, but operating in such a parasitic manner.

623
00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,360
Speaker 6: That they just really really harm put themselves in between

624
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:43,680
Speaker 6: you and your customer, you know, the restaurant and their customer,

625
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,800
Speaker 6: and just basically absorb all the upside there. And in

626
00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 6: the process they're basically just decimating, you know, this industry.

627
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,280
Speaker 6: And you're also seeing in the way they're responding where

628
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:57,120
Speaker 6: you know, now they're trying to go fully vertical, right,

629
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 6: They're like opening up these ghost kitchens where they have

630
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 6: all the these weird brands and the stupidest restaurant now, yeah,

631
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 6: I mean just like all the Yeah, it's just like

632
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,400
Speaker 6: the most ridiculous restaurant names, and they're attempting to cultivate

633
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 6: this like faux you know Italian like local Italian deli,

634
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:17,040
Speaker 6: and it's just ridiculous. And but you know, because they

635
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:19,400
Speaker 6: have so much capital behind them, they're able to kind

636
00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 6: of manage through these concentrated apps like the Access, you know,

637
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,040
Speaker 6: they're able to do that. I don't know how successful

638
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 6: they'll be, but it's really harmful. They're asocial, they're really

639
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 6: hurting kind of third spaces and where people used to

640
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 6: come together, and it's very odd.

641
00:30:50,040 --> 00:30:54,760
Speaker 2: So in light of all of these gigantic companies parasitically

642
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,320
Speaker 2: extracting value and disrupting community. How are I feeling about

643
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,840
Speaker 2: socialism these days? Which I only asked because you know,

644
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:05,400
Speaker 2: we may have a socialist mayor in a few months.

645
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 6: Yeah, I mean nominally socialists.

646
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 2: I feel like, well, it's interesting because I make you

647
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 2: guys love making money and you're entrepreneurs. On the other hand,

648
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:18,240
Speaker 2: part of his campaign was actually spotlighting small business Budegos

649
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: and Delis THET Center. So I'm curious how you were

650
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:20,480
Speaker 2: thinking about, like.

651
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,240
Speaker 5: We are you worried there's going to be a city

652
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 5: owned serious?

653
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 6: Well, you know, Zarah, I'm Donnie ran an incredible campaign,

654
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 6: so energetic, and the one thing we always talk about

655
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,200
Speaker 6: is that everybody has a point, right, you know, cost

656
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 6: of living issues are are real. It's it's hard, and

657
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,720
Speaker 6: daily life has become much more of a grind than

658
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,520
Speaker 6: it was before the pandemic, right, So you know, I

659
00:31:44,520 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 6: think he was addressing, you know, real concerns from people

660
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:49,000
Speaker 6: and you know.

661
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what are you worried about?

662
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:50,880
Speaker 1: You know?

663
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 6: The one thing you know, we were talking about this

664
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:55,000
Speaker 6: on the way over. You know, if you had not

665
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 6: visited New York in two years, and you know you

666
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 6: came back two years later. Now, you know, the first

667
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 6: thing you would say is the city's a lot cleaner,

668
00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 6: and it's actually more functional, seems more functional, and you

669
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,440
Speaker 6: know there's a lot less prime and kind of disorder.

670
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 2: Do you notice it? Because I was going to say,

671
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: I know this stats are good, but I can't tell,

672
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:14,880
Speaker 2: like how much am I being influenced by the fact

673
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: that I read the news and the stats are very

674
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:18,400
Speaker 2: good these days? But you absolutely notice it?

675
00:32:18,600 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 1: I think absolutely. I mean, do you s Yeah, someone

676
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 1: who like, cause we're I'm commuting all day between the restaurants.

677
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 1: I mean from like twenty twenty to today, it's like

678
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,800
Speaker 1: I go on the subway seventy times a day, walk

679
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: around the street. It's like it is very noticeable. I know,

680
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: obviously there's a lot of like there's a lot of

681
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,200
Speaker 1: trash in New York, you know, during COVID and the

682
00:32:37,240 --> 00:32:40,160
Speaker 1: electric cycles and all that. But yeah, it's definitely not

683
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: at that level that it was. But I do understand. Yeah,

684
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:46,920
Speaker 1: when you can pay for eggs or milk and stuff

685
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,080
Speaker 1: like that, I do understand why people are going in

686
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 1: that direction. But it also the policies need to be

687
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: sensible because we already have a crazy budget in the city,

688
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: and we you know, if you keep adding more and

689
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: more debt, you know, I just don't see how you

690
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 1: can pay for all these things he's saying without hurting

691
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 1: us down the road.

692
00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:08,920
Speaker 4: The over regulation is the biggest, the biggest problem for

693
00:33:09,000 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 4: restaurants moving forward. And I did see, you know, he

694
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 4: had he had great campaign points. There was this really

695
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 4: stunning video on how he wanted to appoint a small

696
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,920
Speaker 4: businesses are, which I thought would really eloquently described like

697
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 4: the plight that the mom and pop is currently facing.

698
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 4: Right Like, if you're Chipotle, you got like ten guys

699
00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 4: that can handle regulation and they could just deal with

700
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 4: all that stuff. But like me, Evan and Alex were

701
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:36,080
Speaker 4: like just literally trying to just get you food. You know.

702
00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: Yeah.

703
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,360
Speaker 6: I think the other thing I would say is like,

704
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 6: you know, if you look at his campaign proposals to

705
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,719
Speaker 6: send housing and things like that, you know, it's very

706
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 6: much kind of trying to manage like a lot of

707
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 6: existing programs that you know, from the Adams administration, City

708
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 6: of Yes and different like regulatory making it easier to

709
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,000
Speaker 6: permitting things like that. It's not like, you know, he's

710
00:33:57,080 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 6: proposing building a million housing units via do you.

711
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 1: Know what I mean.

712
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 6: Like, that's why I find like a lot of the

713
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 6: conversation about him to be very strange, because hyperbolic, Yeah,

714
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 6: it's hyperbolic, but also his proposals really aren't you know,

715
00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,960
Speaker 6: you call them a socialist saying calls himself a socialist,

716
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,160
Speaker 6: but his proposals are much more kind of like in

717
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,279
Speaker 6: line with what's kind of the progressive neoliberal paradigm that

718
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 6: we've had over the last six years.

719
00:34:21,920 --> 00:34:22,080
Speaker 1: You know.

720
00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:24,400
Speaker 6: For example, like you know, he talks about rent control

721
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 6: and things like that. You know, a lot of that

722
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,839
Speaker 6: was enacted via CUOMA in twenty nineteen. Right, there's never

723
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 6: been a real honest debate have those reforms that were

724
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 6: enacted twenty nineteen have they worked? And clearly, you know,

725
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 6: based on this campaign, they haven't. So what works what

726
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:40,799
Speaker 6: doesn't work?

727
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:41,000
Speaker 1: You know?

728
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,880
Speaker 6: And I also don't think I don't see a lot

729
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 6: of foreign journalists coming to New York and saying, Wow,

730
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,640
Speaker 6: this regulatory regime is something we need to we need

731
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:50,840
Speaker 6: to bring this to you know, Tokyo, we need to

732
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 6: bring this Vienna, Yeah, rev Vienna, And like, you know,

733
00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 6: nobody says that, you know, So that's kind of I

734
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 6: feel like sometimes we're not honest, and you know, oftentimes

735
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 6: also like the debate about having mentioned the city budgets

736
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 6: like one hundred and twenty billion the dollar. It's massive, right,

737
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 6: you know, so when somebody talks about austerity budgets, it

738
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:12,760
Speaker 6: always rings hollow to me because you know, you're spending

739
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 6: a lot of money. It's nearly forty thousand per student

740
00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:18,240
Speaker 6: for the NYC DOE, but it's not really delivering results.

741
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 1: So what does that mean?

742
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 6: Like, is it more we're not spending enough? Is it

743
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:25,880
Speaker 6: you know, we're not effective in governance? Like I think

744
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:28,840
Speaker 6: those are the more interesting questions that sometimes, you know,

745
00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:31,400
Speaker 6: people don't want to discuss because those are hard questions.

746
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:32,920
Speaker 3: Pizza and politics.

747
00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 1: I like this good.

748
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:37,520
Speaker 2: Uh, someone's got to be doing that already. But if not,

749
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:39,399
Speaker 2: it's a recurring theme.

750
00:35:39,480 --> 00:35:42,759
Speaker 5: Viea Well, talk a little bit more about the regulatory

751
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,320
Speaker 5: choke points, like give us a sense because if I

752
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:48,879
Speaker 5: think about regulation of New York restaurants, like, okay, when

753
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 5: you're opening, I'm sure there are a lot of hoops

754
00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 5: to jump through, but then after that, the only thing

755
00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 5: I can really think of is the health letter that

756
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 5: goes up on the window. And Frank like I see

757
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 5: a lot of non a's around, so it seems in

758
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,879
Speaker 5: my mind like maybe this isn't a big deal if

759
00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 5: you can continue to operate without getting an A.

760
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 1: I mean, the one I want to bring up is

761
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 1: earlier talking about why we went electric. If you try

762
00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 1: to get a new gas service into a restaurant, your

763
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 1: restaurant may never wake up, I mean wake up, may

764
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,920
Speaker 1: never open with the kan Net process just for gas.

765
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,160
Speaker 1: It is actually funny story. I currently in my apartment

766
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:29,759
Speaker 1: are gas line cracked in January and we might not

767
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,520
Speaker 1: get it back to the following January or February. So

768
00:36:32,600 --> 00:36:34,680
Speaker 1: that's just one where if you're trying to open up

769
00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,439
Speaker 1: a restaurant, like you might just be sitting there calling

770
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: con Net every day, just begging for them to let

771
00:36:39,760 --> 00:36:42,160
Speaker 1: your restaurant operate so you can make your investment back.

772
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,520
Speaker 1: So that's just one. But yeah, there's just a lot

773
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: of constant you know, at one point they put a

774
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:50,319
Speaker 1: regulation for you can't keep your doors open so air

775
00:36:50,360 --> 00:36:51,399
Speaker 1: conditioned and flow out.

776
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:51,520
Speaker 5: You know.

777
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,759
Speaker 1: Obviously the paper straw thing was a big one. So

778
00:36:53,840 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 1: there's constant little annoyances that they just try to put

779
00:36:57,520 --> 00:36:58,200
Speaker 1: into your business.

780
00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 2: And it's like I was still a thing Trump won.

781
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:03,920
Speaker 2: I thought like, why did we get rid of that?

782
00:37:04,040 --> 00:37:05,920
Speaker 2: For real? Like how are they I still get them

783
00:37:05,920 --> 00:37:07,640
Speaker 2: from time to time? Like who's asking for that?

784
00:37:08,120 --> 00:37:10,919
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree. It's just like it's just these little

785
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:12,960
Speaker 1: things that we try to constantly do and it's just

786
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,520
Speaker 1: a headache for us. Like you know, with the garbage,

787
00:37:15,560 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 1: it's like, obviously I'm very happy Mayor Adams, you know,

788
00:37:18,239 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: tackle that's been a huge issue for this city.

789
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:24,239
Speaker 2: But you perceive progress on that, like when you look

790
00:37:24,280 --> 00:37:26,719
Speaker 2: at the trash and also the situation in New York

791
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:28,800
Speaker 2: which he touts his war on reds a lot, do

792
00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 2: you perceive are you able to she claims to.

793
00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:35,560
Speaker 5: Be a single issue voter. I'm not sure it's true.

794
00:37:36,520 --> 00:37:36,680
Speaker 4: You know.

795
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:40,000
Speaker 1: I mean, I think it's just very good to just

796
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: contain her eyes garbage, you know, especially so it was

797
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,880
Speaker 1: just in Europe and Portugal and they have these beautiful

798
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: garbage cans where they it's a shoot underground, then they

799
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 1: come and get it, Like I would love to just

800
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 1: stop seeing garbage bags everywhere, you know, and it's you know,

801
00:37:53,719 --> 00:37:56,120
Speaker 1: we just need to clean up the streets a little bit, right,

802
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: So it's good.

803
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 4: I also want to add to that because when COVID happened,

804
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,520
Speaker 4: they basically open up the regulation for every three letter agency.

805
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:09,200
Speaker 4: So while you're seeing a lot more of the grade

806
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:11,960
Speaker 4: pending signs from the Health Department, I mean, I'm more

807
00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 4: concerned about the Fire Department and the Department of Transportation

808
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 4: because the way that they tackled the outdoor dining has

809
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 4: been ridiculous. There's one hundred new steps to doing outdoor dining.

810
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 4: Whereas I used to just have to fill out a form,

811
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 4: send in a check, and it get renewed every year.

812
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:33,400
Speaker 4: Now I have eleven pending tickets from the Department of

813
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:35,680
Speaker 4: Transportation for various reasons.

814
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 3: That's a shame.

815
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,799
Speaker 5: I'm a big fan of outdoor dining and I wish

816
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,520
Speaker 5: there was more of it in New York despite the

817
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:46,520
Speaker 5: rap problem here. In terms of additional pressures on the business,

818
00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:50,040
Speaker 5: there's another one we should probably talk about again. Situation

819
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:52,879
Speaker 5: is kind of in flux. We're recording this on July eighth,

820
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 5: but tariffs, right, I assume as a pizza place, maybe

821
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,560
Speaker 5: you're importing some tomatoes from Italy or I don't know,

822
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,839
Speaker 5: fancy flower from France, which I know is the thing

823
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:07,640
Speaker 5: is that expected to impact your business at all.

824
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 6: One area where it definitely has impacted is just paper

825
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 6: and plastic. A lot of paper and plastic materials that

826
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,040
Speaker 6: go into kind of branding and things like that do

827
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,520
Speaker 6: come from abroad. It's just become more expensive in the

828
00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 6: US to produce those types of things. So you know,

829
00:39:23,920 --> 00:39:26,480
Speaker 6: you're importing a lot of different products. The bulls that

830
00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 6: you see at at different spots come from you know,

831
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 6: Vietnam or China or some other areas, and you know,

832
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 6: the pope boles and so that's one area where clearly,

833
00:39:35,560 --> 00:39:38,560
Speaker 6: you know, for a lot of restaurants, they are impacted.

834
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,200
Speaker 6: You know, obviously there's you know, it's been kind of

835
00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:43,719
Speaker 6: a ridiculous couple of months with the back and forth,

836
00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 6: but that's definitely an area where I think a lot

837
00:39:46,480 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 6: of restaurant operators are concerned and will actually ultimately be

838
00:39:50,280 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 6: impacted by it.

839
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 4: So it is a global supply chain. And like here's

840
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 4: an example, right, like what do you associate the food

841
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 4: product of Switzerland to be geez cheese? Okay, chocolate? How

842
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 4: many miles do you think is the local cocoa bean

843
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:07,799
Speaker 4: from Switzerland? A lot?

844
00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:08,319
Speaker 1: A lot?

845
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:10,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, like twelve o our miles.

846
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,160
Speaker 5: But cheese is local, Jesu is local.

847
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, how would you assess this sort of current cyclical

848
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 2: state of the New York City economy? People, I don't

849
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,719
Speaker 2: think have like ever been more divided and confused about

850
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 2: just the trajectory of whether we're talking about the national

851
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,960
Speaker 2: economy or anything else. You could have people pointing to

852
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:29,920
Speaker 2: signs like, look, things are booming right now, and other

853
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:32,879
Speaker 2: people will have very compelling arguments like things are slowing down.

854
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:35,919
Speaker 2: Fit's got to cut and stuff like right now July eighth,

855
00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 2: how are things feeling?

856
00:40:36,880 --> 00:40:38,960
Speaker 1: I mean, I get started. I know, we all have

857
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,840
Speaker 1: opinions on it. I mean, just back to why we

858
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,000
Speaker 1: started this business. We always believe New York would come back.

859
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: You know, obviously we took a huge risk in the

860
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: middle of COVID, and you know, right now we are

861
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:52,520
Speaker 1: seeing it's always good and bad signs. Right Obviously, we

862
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: just came out of the big holiday cycle, you know

863
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 1: between Moral Day Juneteenth and fourth of July, and you

864
00:40:58,239 --> 00:41:00,960
Speaker 1: know we are seeing more catering, which is great. Obviously

865
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,800
Speaker 1: in an area like Midtown East, it's very nice to

866
00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 1: see the foot traffic, you know, Monday through Thursday back again.

867
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:08,759
Speaker 1: So that's you know, we're feeling very optimistic entering this

868
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 1: Fridays are gone for good. Huh. So that was one

869
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:12,839
Speaker 1: thing that we didn't bring up earlier. You know, one

870
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: of the big issues trying to manage your expenses is

871
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: that Friday, at least in New York you know, I

872
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 1: don't know about other cities or in the suburbs, but

873
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: losing that Friday, you know, that Friday where you know you're.

874
00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,440
Speaker 2: You're probably don't eat more launch on Monday through Thursday

875
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: to compensate for the fen exactly like when you're doing

876
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: your basic you know, modeling for your restaurant.

877
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 1: Losing one whole weekday a week, right, it adds up.

878
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:37,839
Speaker 1: But I will say we are feeling way better entering

879
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:40,319
Speaker 1: this fall than the previous years, you know, just we've

880
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:41,960
Speaker 1: had a couple of months where it's like, wow, this

881
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:43,960
Speaker 1: is you know, we had two months that were up

882
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,399
Speaker 1: twenty five percent as you knows from last year, which

883
00:41:46,480 --> 00:41:49,480
Speaker 1: is fantastic. So feeling good on that end, but you know,

884
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: we're always on edge, right, It's like we don't know

885
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: what's going to happen with certain expenses, and we're gonna

886
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:54,760
Speaker 1: keep pushing.

887
00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 4: But yeah, so Yeah, to speak to that the wealth effect, right,

888
00:41:58,840 --> 00:42:02,160
Speaker 4: people can avoid coming into to Manhattan on Friday, but

889
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,319
Speaker 4: also during the summer when you have a Labor Day,

890
00:42:04,400 --> 00:42:08,080
Speaker 4: Memorial Day, you know, the three big holidays, they're gone

891
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 4: the week before and the week after, so you're essentially

892
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 4: New York City is turning into a little bit of

893
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:13,080
Speaker 4: a ghost town.

894
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,440
Speaker 2: They're really rich these days because the stock markets that

895
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 2: are taking longer vacations.

896
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 4: Is that what you're saying, it's all the points.

897
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:21,840
Speaker 5: They're buying pizza in the Hampton's exactly.

898
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,800
Speaker 2: These are becoming longer holidays than It's really interesting.

899
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 4: You can see it in the sales.

900
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 1: Wow.

901
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, I think that's kind of part of the problem.

902
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,040
Speaker 6: Where before the pandemic, a lot of these being in

903
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:36,560
Speaker 6: the restaurant industry, it was very predictable. You kind of

904
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,200
Speaker 6: had like a sense of where each week would be

905
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:41,040
Speaker 6: and how to mand it. You know, that was just

906
00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 6: kind of like second nature. And now with kind of

907
00:42:44,560 --> 00:42:48,000
Speaker 6: remote work and you know how people approach work as well,

908
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 6: you know, it's a much bigger challenge to kind of

909
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:53,399
Speaker 6: manage the business and predicting and you know, being able

910
00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,399
Speaker 6: to kind of steady sales on the city as a whole.

911
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 6: It's it's kind of interesting like midtownie the Plaza district.

912
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 6: As Manhattan was moving upwards and north. You know what

913
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,120
Speaker 6: made that area of that area was the transportation network, right,

914
00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 6: It's like a nexus of transportation of Grand Central, all

915
00:43:11,280 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 6: the subway lines crossing there, and it's a real crossing

916
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 6: of the whole Tristate area. East Side Access obviously was

917
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:22,120
Speaker 6: the big project that brought lub r into Grand Central.

918
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 6: Hopefully they figure out how to actually like properly utilize that.

919
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 6: But you know, and that's kind of why we're bullish

920
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 6: long term on that specific part of the city. It's

921
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,280
Speaker 6: you know, it draws people from all over the region

922
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 6: and ultimately that's what's going to allow it to thrive

923
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 6: again and you know, replicate kind of the where it

924
00:43:41,360 --> 00:43:42,600
Speaker 6: was pre pandemic.

925
00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:45,960
Speaker 5: If you were opening Zenos again, or if you could

926
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 5: go back in time and do it over. Is there

927
00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:51,880
Speaker 5: anything you do differently, Well, that's a that's.

928
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,440
Speaker 1: A heavy one. Yeah, I mean back to your you

929
00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,440
Speaker 1: know the question earlier. It's like when you're picking the location,

930
00:43:58,800 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: you know you're looking for office clients, tourists, locals, and

931
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,280
Speaker 1: you know you're trying to balance all those things obviously,

932
00:44:06,320 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: and then against the cost of the rent. We obviously

933
00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:12,239
Speaker 1: found a you know, area where did not have a

934
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: lot of competition. We felt was going to give us

935
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:14,719
Speaker 1: a chance to me.

936
00:44:14,719 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 2: And you just found that by typing pizza and Google

937
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,160
Speaker 2: maps and zooming out looking for like yeah, it's crazy.

938
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're looking, yeah, you need to check what's

939
00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,200
Speaker 1: what's around you. And we like the space that you know,

940
00:44:26,239 --> 00:44:28,879
Speaker 1: obviously was a great space over there, and we knew

941
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: the area. But for example, one thing we've lost in

942
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,279
Speaker 1: this area is tourists because four or five of like

943
00:44:34,320 --> 00:44:36,800
Speaker 1: the big hotels in the area shut down since COVID,

944
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 1: So obviously, looking back, you can't predict that. And I

945
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: do think if we had another chance, it's like, I mean,

946
00:44:43,680 --> 00:44:46,359
Speaker 1: we love this space, but like maybe do you need

947
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:48,600
Speaker 1: to like go find an area that's a little bit

948
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,600
Speaker 1: more touristy, But like, how how can you predict that?

949
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: And then the one thing we were discussing which is

950
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,719
Speaker 1: interesting is obviously pizza and bars usually go together, right,

951
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: but you are seeing people are drinking less now, so

952
00:44:59,600 --> 00:45:01,400
Speaker 1: are those there is not as good as you know

953
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:02,000
Speaker 1: they used to be.

954
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 2: I don't know, Evan Alex and James. That was fantastic.

955
00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,279
Speaker 2: That was the conversation I hoped to have. I didn't

956
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 2: even know we were going to get pizza out of it.

957
00:45:10,719 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 2: But that was a lot of fun. They learned a lot.

958
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,800
Speaker 2: And thank you all so much for coming on Outlass.

959
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: Thank you, thank you, thanks for having us.

960
00:45:17,560 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 4: Shout out Chris Hatch by the way.

961
00:45:19,239 --> 00:45:22,240
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Chris Hatch, who we've had on the podcast

962
00:45:22,280 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 2: a couple of times. He introduced me to James, and

963
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: then I also met Alex by going to the Oxford Cafe.

964
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 2: So all coming together here. Thank you guys so.

965
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:32,000
Speaker 4: Much, thank you, thank you, thanks so much.

966
00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:46,640
Speaker 2: Tracy, I actually my stomach does not feel that bad.

967
00:45:46,680 --> 00:45:48,640
Speaker 2: I did not know that about like, oh, you fermant

968
00:45:48,680 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: for a long time and then eats the gluten and

969
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,239
Speaker 2: then you don't feel as heavy. I didn't know any

970
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 2: I didn't know anything about this.

971
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 3: I didn't know that either.

972
00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:57,879
Speaker 5: Although I have to confess the whole lunchtime heaviness thing

973
00:45:58,239 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 5: is I have never had that fear and I never

974
00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 5: understood it.

975
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 2: Do you think I have a gluten? I'd be so embarrassed,

976
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,800
Speaker 2: Like I don't want to I don't want to judge

977
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: people who like I've always like, what if I'm one

978
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: of those gluten people. Well, oh I have a gluten.

979
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 5: Well maybe you'll feel better if you actually take it

980
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 5: into account.

981
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 2: But that was really fun. I have empathy now on

982
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,080
Speaker 2: realizing that I'm one of those gluten people.

983
00:46:19,560 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 5: All right, well, okay, so we talked about pizza and

984
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 5: politics Sicilian with a side of socialism, yeah, marinera, and

985
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:28,440
Speaker 5: the macro economy.

986
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 2: Were you writing all these down?

987
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 4: Yes? I was.

988
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:35,320
Speaker 2: Actually I love your fastidiousness about dropping puns in alliteration.

989
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 2: You get get up whenever you get an opportunity. But no,

990
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:42,799
Speaker 2: I did think that was really fun. And I like entrepreneurs.

991
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,480
Speaker 2: They're optimistic. They have to be, that's right.

992
00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 5: I am thinking about like a couple of themes that

993
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:51,799
Speaker 5: keep coming across in these couple of episodes we've done

994
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 5: on the sort of restaurant or wholesale food business, and

995
00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:57,360
Speaker 5: that's the idea of a lot of the cost increases

996
00:46:57,520 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 5: coming from that sort of middle layer of third party services,

997
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,239
Speaker 5: whether it's because you have to outsource something like distribution,

998
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:09,399
Speaker 5: or it's because you have to use something like an app,

999
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 5: a food delivery app that charges an enormous amount of

1000
00:47:13,120 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 5: money to both the customer and the restaurant. Apparently, I

1001
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,600
Speaker 5: feel like I need to impress this on people.

1002
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 3: Who are not in New York.

1003
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 5: The food app charges in New York.

1004
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,720
Speaker 2: I started, I remember it, gat Yeah, I actually started.

1005
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,360
Speaker 2: I'm real old fashion. I walk to the store and

1006
00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 2: pick up my food after ordering it online.

1007
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:29,760
Speaker 3: That's Lindy.

1008
00:47:30,080 --> 00:47:32,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is Lindy.

1009
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:32,839
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1010
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:35,120
Speaker 2: No, it's insane. It's completely insane.

1011
00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:37,680
Speaker 5: All right, Well, we could probably talk about pizza for

1012
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:38,200
Speaker 5: a long time.

1013
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 2: We have more pizza in the control room right now,

1014
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:42,399
Speaker 2: so rather than continuing to talk about it, I want

1015
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:43,000
Speaker 2: another slice.

1016
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:43,480
Speaker 1: All right?

1017
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 3: Shall we leave it there?

1018
00:47:44,360 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 1: Let's leave it there.

1019
00:47:45,120 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 5: This has been another episode of the aud Lots podcast.

1020
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 5: I'm Tracy Alloway. You can follow me at Tracy Alloway and.

1021
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:53,360
Speaker 2: I'm Jill Wisenthal. You can follow me at the Stalwart.

1022
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,160
Speaker 2: Go check out their restaurants, Alex and Evan and James.

1023
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: They all have Zeno's. And also, I swear I kind

1024
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 2: of want to do it the Oxford Cafe on I

1025
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,800
Speaker 2: guess sixtieth Street is the best chop sale, and this

1026
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:08,040
Speaker 2: is we could at one point I want to do

1027
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,239
Speaker 2: an episode on their chop sale. Because it's it's its

1028
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 2: own great logistics story. So go check out the Oxford

1029
00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 2: Cafe for in the area. Follow James Shields on Twitter

1030
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,080
Speaker 2: at James A. Shields. Follow our producers Carmen Rodriguez at

1031
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,920
Speaker 2: Carmen Erman dash, Ol Bennett at Dashbot and Keilbrooks at Kilbrooks.

1032
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,640
Speaker 2: For more Oddlots content, go to Bloomberg dot com slash

1033
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:27,759
Speaker 2: odd Lots. We have a daily newsletter and all of

1034
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: our episodes, and you can chat about all of these

1035
00:48:29,920 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 2: topics twenty four seven in our discord Discord dot gg

1036
00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:34,280
Speaker 2: slash odlocks.

1037
00:48:34,520 --> 00:48:36,480
Speaker 5: And if you enjoy odd Lots, if you like it

1038
00:48:36,560 --> 00:48:39,040
Speaker 5: when we talk about the business of carbs, then please

1039
00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 5: leave us a positive review on your favorite podcast platform.

1040
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,319
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1041
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:48,160
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1042
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:49,360
Speaker 3: All you need to do is.

1043
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,040
Speaker 5: Find the Bloomberg channel on Apple Podcasts and follow the

1044
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:52,920
Speaker 5: instructions there.

1045
00:48:53,320 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 3: Thanks for listening, bend

1046
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:19,320
Speaker 4: In