1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: On this episode of Neutch World. 2 00:00:06,760 --> 00:00:10,840 Speaker 2: In his new book Portraits of Ukraine, A Nation at War, 3 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 2: Gregory Slatin provides a comprehensive analysis into the realities of 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: the brutal twenty twenty two Russian invasion within the context 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 2: of Ukraine's people, history, arts, culture, traditions, and geography. Compelling 6 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 2: and well researched Portraits of Ukraine is enhanced by hundreds 7 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:34,839 Speaker 2: of beautiful images that draw us into the complex, riveting 8 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,640 Speaker 2: history that has made Ukraine what it is today, an independent, 9 00:00:38,840 --> 00:00:42,400 Speaker 2: democratic European nation of forty million people who are defending 10 00:00:42,440 --> 00:00:47,120 Speaker 2: their freedom, their families, and their future. I'm really pleased 11 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 2: to welcome my guest, Ambassador Gregory W. Slayton, former US 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 2: Consul General in chief of Mission to Bermuda and author 13 00:00:54,640 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 2: of the book Portraits of Ukraine A Nation of War. Gregory, 14 00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:12,320 Speaker 2: welcome and thank you for joining me on news World. 15 00:01:13,520 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 3: Thank you, nud It's an honor to be here and 16 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 3: it's great to see you again. 17 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,760 Speaker 2: You know you were in Kiev on the third anniversary 18 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 2: of the invasion of Ukraine on February twenty fourth. What 19 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 2: was that occasion like, Well, it. 20 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 3: Was a very somber occasion, as you can imagine. I 21 00:01:28,200 --> 00:01:32,040 Speaker 3: was invited by President Zelenski's office, which was a great honor. 22 00:01:32,520 --> 00:01:35,880 Speaker 3: It was actually the official launch date of our book, 23 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 3: Portraits of Ukraine, a Nation at War, and that was 24 00:01:39,040 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 3: an honor. Also. The amazing thing, Newt is that the 25 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:46,119 Speaker 3: following Friday, I was in Washington for that incredible dust 26 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 3: up at the White House. So it was really a 27 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 3: crazy juxtaposition, and I think I was one of the 28 00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 3: very few Americans to be in both places that week. 29 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: That's amazing. 30 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,400 Speaker 2: So I'm very curious what was your reaction to how 31 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 2: the White House evolved. 32 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 3: Well, obviously I was deeply disappointed. I appreciate President Trump's 33 00:02:07,320 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: effort to bring peace. I very much believe that peace 34 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 3: through strength. As Ronald Reagan said, trust but verify. And 35 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 3: with a guy like Vladimir Putin, you know, his record 36 00:02:18,680 --> 00:02:22,239 Speaker 3: is crystal clear. We just can't trust him. I wish 37 00:02:22,280 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 3: we could, but we can't. So peace through strength is 38 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:25,760 Speaker 3: the way forward. 39 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:29,520 Speaker 2: Already, since that meeting, there's seemed to be steps to 40 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 2: get back together again and to find a common ground. 41 00:02:32,880 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: I mean, do you think this is sort of just 42 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,560 Speaker 2: a temporary dust up between countries who are in the 43 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,519 Speaker 2: long run have a natural interest in each other. 44 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 3: I do, I do nude, and I've tried to do 45 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 3: my best to kind of bring the parties together in 46 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 3: a small way, many other people more important than me 47 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 3: doing the same thing. I do think that Ukraine, a democratic, 48 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,959 Speaker 3: freedom loving country based on the rule of law, has 49 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 3: a lot in common with our nation, and I believe 50 00:02:58,919 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 3: we will come back together. I believe that minerals deal 51 00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 3: will be signed, and I applaud President Trump and his 52 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 3: efforts to really get the parties together again. Peace through strength. 53 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:14,720 Speaker 3: We must avoid at all costs the Nixon Kissinger disaster 54 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 3: in South Vietnam, which I know you remember, you know 55 00:03:17,480 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 3: there were peace, so called peace. Six months later, the 56 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 3: North Vietnamese overrun the South and twenty years of a 57 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 3: communist hellhole ensues that we cannot allow. 58 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 2: So the President's address to the Joint Session, he suddenly 59 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 2: stopped and says, quote earlier today, I received an important 60 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:39,240 Speaker 2: letter from President Zelenski of Ukraine. The letter reads, quote, 61 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 2: Ukraine is ready to come to the negotiating table as 62 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 2: soon as possible to bring last team piece closer. Nobody 63 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 2: wants peace more than the Ukrainians. My team and I 64 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:50,560 Speaker 2: A stening ready to work under President Trump's strong leadership 65 00:03:50,800 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: to get a piece that last. We do really value 66 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:56,240 Speaker 2: how much America has done to help Ukraine maintain its 67 00:03:56,240 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 2: sovereignty independence. Regarding the Agreement on Minerals and Security, Ukraine 68 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 2: is ready to sign it at any time. First of all, 69 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 2: I thought it was kind of dramatic to read the 70 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 2: letter in the middle of his speech. But second, it 71 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: sounds to me like they're finding a way to make 72 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 2: up inch by inch and get back in the right direction. 73 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:15,480 Speaker 1: Is that sort of your read of it? 74 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 3: Absolutely nude? In fact, I was one of probably many 75 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:24,159 Speaker 3: people who recommended to President Zelensky's office to do a letter, 76 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 3: because in a letter you can control exactly what you say. 77 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:31,040 Speaker 3: There's no chance of a blowback from anybody else. And 78 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: I thought they did a good job. Had to be 79 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 3: a little humble, little contracte, had to be thankful, and 80 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:39,679 Speaker 3: had to let everybody know that they want peace also, 81 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 3: and frankly, Newton, nobody wants peace and needs peace more 82 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 3: than the Ukrainians because they have suffered so much. 83 00:04:46,560 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 2: So along that line, I noticed that, you know, Zolensky 84 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,360 Speaker 2: left from the White House, went to London, but that 85 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 2: in fact, after I met with all the Europeans. They 86 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,000 Speaker 2: seem to all be saying to him, you know, you 87 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: better find a way to get to work with Trump, 88 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,760 Speaker 2: because in the end, the United States is central and 89 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 2: whether not this thing happens. 90 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,360 Speaker 3: You're absolutely right, dude, as you full well know, there 91 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,760 Speaker 3: are a number of key military systems that the Europeans 92 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:14,320 Speaker 3: just don't make, and then in terms of volume, they 93 00:05:14,440 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 3: absolutely need the haft and the breadth of the US 94 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 3: military industrial complex to keep this war going. I mean, 95 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 3: Ukraine will be in very deep trouble within six to 96 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 3: eight months and basically out of keymunitions within twelve months 97 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,599 Speaker 3: under any circumstances without the US continued support. 98 00:05:33,200 --> 00:05:35,520 Speaker 2: Now, the Europeans, of some of them, I shouldn't say 99 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,920 Speaker 2: the Europeans, but Bretain and France, Turkey have all said 100 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,160 Speaker 2: they would be willing to have a European force in 101 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: eastern Ukraine as sort of a guaranteur of the agreement. 102 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:51,240 Speaker 2: I'm curious, how do you think Putin will respond to 103 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:56,159 Speaker 2: the idea of Western European troops on the Russian border. 104 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: Well, Putin's already told us, he's already said that's unacceptable, 105 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 3: that's not going to be part of the negotiations. But 106 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 3: what we have to realize about Vladimir Putin he is 107 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 3: at his weakest point in the twenty five years of 108 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:13,919 Speaker 3: his absolute dictatorship. He's lost Syria. His army's been bloody, 109 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 3: just horrible, to the point where they have to get 110 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:21,520 Speaker 3: North Korean basically untrained conscripts to fight alongside the Russians. 111 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:26,679 Speaker 3: Putin has been dramatically weakened. He can, you know, shout 112 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 3: and roar all he wants, but he's in a very 113 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 3: weak position. And I believe that President Trump is a 114 00:06:32,760 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 3: good negotiator, and we'll understand that, and we'll push for 115 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,640 Speaker 3: the kind of guarantees we need, including that minerals deal. 116 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:44,320 Speaker 3: Remember having American contractors, American companies, you know, exploring those 117 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 3: mineral deposits. I don't think Putin's going to want to 118 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 3: kill Americans who happen to be in Ukraine. 119 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 2: The minute President Trump suggested this, I thought, in a sense, 120 00:06:54,680 --> 00:07:00,359 Speaker 2: he's trying to indirectly recreate the hostage environment where you 121 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,600 Speaker 2: have so many Americans working in Ukraine that you have 122 00:07:03,720 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 2: functionally blocked the Russians even if you have not signed 123 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:08,880 Speaker 2: an explicit security agreement. 124 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 3: You're absolutely right dude, and just look back. Even during 125 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:16,760 Speaker 3: this three year conflict Russia, Putin has specifically said, oh, 126 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 3: we're going to use nukes, We're thinking about using nukes. 127 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: We may use nukes. He's never used nukes. He's not 128 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 3: gonna do it now. Of course, do I want to 129 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,280 Speaker 3: bet on World War three? Of course not. But sometimes 130 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 3: you have to call out a bully, and you have 131 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 3: to call out a dictator. We learned in World War 132 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,760 Speaker 3: Two that appeasing Hitler was a complete and total failure. 133 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,160 Speaker 3: We cannot appease Vladimir Putin. That would be an equal well, 134 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,000 Speaker 3: I don't know equal, but that would also be a 135 00:07:43,040 --> 00:07:43,920 Speaker 3: tremendous failure. 136 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 2: Part of what's fascinating about the Cold War is we 137 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: maintained a balance from the time we published our Grand 138 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 2: Strategy in nineteen fifty until nineteen ninety one when it collapse. 139 00:07:56,640 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 2: We were able to sort of brush up against each 140 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:05,080 Speaker 2: other in Vietnam and Korea, Cuba, Granada, but orderly we 141 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 2: were very careful not to get to a nuclear war 142 00:08:07,800 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 2: because both sides knew how trouble was. Because you do 143 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 2: know Ukraine, I have to ask you about one thing. 144 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 2: Is Zelenski said that I was puzzled by he said, quote, 145 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,600 Speaker 2: we hear from the US that America has given Ukraine 146 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 2: hundreds of billions, specifically one hundred and seventy seven billion. 147 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:25,920 Speaker 2: To be precise, he says, this is Lelenski. As the 148 00:08:25,920 --> 00:08:27,480 Speaker 2: president of a country of war, I tell you we 149 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: have received a little over seventy five billion. That means 150 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 2: we never received one hundred billion of that one seventy 151 00:08:32,920 --> 00:08:36,240 Speaker 2: seven and that is important. We're talking about specific things. 152 00:08:36,280 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 2: We did not receive this as cash, but as weapons. 153 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:43,319 Speaker 2: We have received over seventy billion dollars. In weapons, there's training, transport, humanitarian, 154 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 2: social programs, and so forth. But when people say that 155 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 2: Ukraine received two hundred billion dollars to support the army 156 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,079 Speaker 2: during the war, that's not true. I don't know where 157 00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 2: all that money is. Maybe it exists on paper or 158 00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 2: maybe so we don't argue. We're grateful for everything. But 159 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,320 Speaker 2: as president, I record that we've received over seventy billion. 160 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 2: That is significant aid, but it's not two hundred I mean, 161 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 2: what do you make. 162 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: Of all that? 163 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 3: Well, there's a lot of confusion. I mean President Trump 164 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:10,599 Speaker 3: has set three hundred and fifty that's manifestly false. The 165 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 3: number that we put confidence in and we've done some 166 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 3: research on this about one hundred and twenty one hundred 167 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 3: and twenty five billion, which is a big number. One 168 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 3: of the problems, as you know well Newt, is that 169 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,959 Speaker 3: the US government, we record the value of our weapons 170 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 3: at the value of the time they were made. Okay, 171 00:09:28,640 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 3: So it's like I buy a car twenty years ago, 172 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: I paid twenty thousand dollars for Well, it's not worth 173 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 3: twenty thousand dollars today. Same thing with weapons systems. A 174 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,880 Speaker 3: lot of the weapons systems, in fact, the large majority 175 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,800 Speaker 3: that we're giving to Ukraine are weapon systems that are 176 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 3: coming to the end of their useful life. We're paying 177 00:09:44,960 --> 00:09:50,920 Speaker 3: American military companies to use American employees to make American 178 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 3: munitions that are fully and totally new and fresh and 179 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,400 Speaker 3: ready to go. So I think that Zelensky's wrong. To 180 00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:01,080 Speaker 3: be honest, I think the number is big than seventy five, 181 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,839 Speaker 3: but it's certainly not three hundred and fifty. Let's say 182 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 3: it's one hundred to one hundred and fifty. I'm very 183 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:09,839 Speaker 3: confident saying it's in that range. That is a huge 184 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,440 Speaker 3: amount of money, huge amount of weapons, And Zelensky's right 185 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 3: to be thankful, because without those weapons, this war is over. 186 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:32,079 Speaker 1: Were you surprised? 187 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:35,280 Speaker 2: You know, you remember just before the war you had 188 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,880 Speaker 2: General Millie, that's trying to joint chief say, you know, 189 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 2: testimony at the Senate that he thought the Russians would 190 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:42,840 Speaker 2: be in Kiev in three days, which I have a 191 00:10:42,880 --> 00:10:47,319 Speaker 2: hunch is what Putin's generals told him. Were you surprised 192 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:49,199 Speaker 2: that they were able to stop them so decisively? 193 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 3: I absolutely was new Do we go into this in 194 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,040 Speaker 3: great detail in the book, this Portraits of Ukraine book, 195 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:59,120 Speaker 3: we have a whole chapter on the Russian invasion and 196 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:03,400 Speaker 3: how the Russian military made fundamental mistakes. For instance, you 197 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 3: might know that they only had four or five days 198 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:11,079 Speaker 3: of bullets of equipment of gasoline, for instance, because they 199 00:11:11,120 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 3: expected to take Kiev. Their spies had told Putin over 200 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 3: and over the Ukrainians Hateselenski. They love Russia, which, of 201 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 3: course is Anybody who knows anything about Ukrainian industry knows 202 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,400 Speaker 3: that that's not true. Yes, there is a small portion 203 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 3: of Ukraine, the far East where they are Russian speaking, 204 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:32,199 Speaker 3: but the vast majority of Ukrainians they remember the Holomodore, 205 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:37,560 Speaker 3: the genocide of the twenties and thirties, and the Ukrainians 206 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 3: were ready to fight. Now, it's true that our CIA 207 00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 3: and almost all the Western intelligence services said one week, 208 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 3: maximum two, but they didn't take into account the huge 209 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 3: mistakes that the Russian army made splitting into three instead 210 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,199 Speaker 3: of just going for Kiev and cutting off the head, 211 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 3: which they could have done. You know, they had three 212 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 3: or four assassination teams in Kiev to assassinate Zelensky, in 213 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:07,600 Speaker 3: his entire cabinet, his wife, everybody. Those assassin nation teams 214 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 3: were taken out and the Ukrainians rallied in what can 215 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 3: only be described as a miracle. And I know, as 216 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 3: a believing person, knew you believe in miracles. And it's 217 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 3: the second day of Lent, and I'm super thankful. 218 00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 2: Well, it's a little bit like the survival of Israel 219 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:27,079 Speaker 2: in forty seven forty eight. The balance of forces are 220 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 2: offset by the balance of morale and moral courage. I 221 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 2: was noticing, while you've done this amazing work on Ukraine 222 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: that originally your background when you went to Dartmouth was 223 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:42,479 Speaker 2: in Asian studies, and you were a fulbright scholar in Asia. 224 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: I mean, what was that like? 225 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,960 Speaker 3: Well, that was a wonderful job being a Fulbright scholar 226 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 3: as one of the great honors. I was able to 227 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 3: do a master's in Asian studies. I actually grew up 228 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 3: partially in a Chinese family, and that's a much longer story. 229 00:12:57,400 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 3: My father abandoned me and my family away and that's 230 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:03,000 Speaker 3: how I came to faith. And you know, here we 231 00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:06,480 Speaker 3: are in Lent. I had a wonderful Chinese family, very 232 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 3: strong believing family. They did things I'd never heard of before. 233 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 3: They prayed before meals, they went to church, they read 234 00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,880 Speaker 3: the Bibles. Like, what are you talking about? But I 235 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 3: saw that they were a wonderful family. They were very close, 236 00:13:19,280 --> 00:13:22,280 Speaker 3: they loved each other like everybody. They made mistakes, but 237 00:13:22,320 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 3: they forgave each other and that made me really interested 238 00:13:25,640 --> 00:13:28,480 Speaker 3: in this whole Christianity stuff. I started to read the 239 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,360 Speaker 3: Bible with my Chinese brother and a few years later 240 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,240 Speaker 3: I converted and I came to Christ and has been 241 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:36,320 Speaker 3: the most important decision of my whole life. 242 00:13:36,520 --> 00:13:39,920 Speaker 1: That's a remarkable story. Where all were you in Asia? 243 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,720 Speaker 3: I was a Fulbright scholar in the Philippines, but my 244 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:48,600 Speaker 3: master's thesis was economic comparison of six different Southeast Asian nations. 245 00:13:48,679 --> 00:13:53,319 Speaker 3: And Japan. So I really did economic comparison, macroeconomic comparison, 246 00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 3: and I came to see, you know, I'll be honest 247 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,520 Speaker 3: new When I was in college, I was pretty much 248 00:13:57,559 --> 00:14:00,199 Speaker 3: of a socialist. And then you know, like when in 249 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:03,240 Speaker 3: Churchill said, if you know you're not a liberal when 250 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 3: you're twenty, you have no heart. Right. But I came 251 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 3: to faith, I started to pay taxes. I did this study, 252 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 3: and I saw that big government doesn't work. There's no doubt. 253 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,800 Speaker 3: It just was clear that big government didn't work. And 254 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 3: where you had the rule of law, strong currency and 255 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 3: allowed people to just get after their business, like Hong 256 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 3: Kong and Singapore, everything flowered, the economy flowered, the civil 257 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 3: society flowered. It was just a beautiful thing. Taiwan is 258 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 3: a little bit slower, but the same example. So you 259 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 3: see again and again and again that rule of law, 260 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 3: strong currency, government, you know, staying out of the way, 261 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 3: setting the rules and then letting people, letting the free 262 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,160 Speaker 3: market work. That is the way, as you've always preached Newton, 263 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 3: I've always appreciated this about you. That's the way to 264 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:54,440 Speaker 3: benefit society. 265 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:58,000 Speaker 2: When you were doing there scholarship, you end up working 266 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:01,359 Speaker 2: for World Vision, International World Vision International. 267 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 3: World Vision International was then and is still today, one 268 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 3: of the largest Christian relief organizations in the world. I 269 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,280 Speaker 3: specifically was in West Africa, and you'll probably remember nut 270 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 3: that in the middle of the eighties there were tremendous 271 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 3: famines caused by drought in both West Africa and East Africa. 272 00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:24,640 Speaker 3: The World Vision had one portion of West Africa, specifically 273 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 3: the Seventh Region of Mali. Now, let me just say 274 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 3: the only reason the Seventh Region of Mali has ever 275 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 3: been heard of. It is the only place in the 276 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:36,160 Speaker 3: world that can legitimately say it is beyond Timbuk two. 277 00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 3: This Timbuk Too is the capital of the sixth Region 278 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 3: of Mali. So anyway, I lived there for about three years. 279 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: That puts you on the edge of the Sahara, didn't it. 280 00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly right, dude. In fact, I own my own 281 00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 3: camel and use my camel to commute. We had a 282 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 3: very large operation of maternal child feeding centers and helping 283 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 3: moms to understand how to defeat diarrhea. Back then, the 284 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 3: belief was if your kid had diarrhea, you didn't feed 285 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 3: them anything, didn't give them anything to drink. Well, they 286 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,680 Speaker 3: either died or they recover. Most died. So we help 287 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 3: people understand, help moms understand. You have to feed them. 288 00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 3: Here's the specific formula. Especially have to give them drink. 289 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 3: It was very rewarding work. I'm still proud of that today. 290 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: That's great. 291 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,400 Speaker 2: But then you ended up with President George W. Bush 292 00:16:26,520 --> 00:16:29,720 Speaker 2: named you as the Consul General and Chief of Mission 293 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,880 Speaker 2: to Bermuda. That's a pretty big jump in patterns. 294 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 3: Well, there was a long way between that. We had 295 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 3: four kids, and I was with McKinsey and Company for 296 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 3: a long time and anyway, but yes, I was deeply 297 00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,840 Speaker 3: honored when President Bush asked me to be the Chief 298 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,480 Speaker 3: of Mission to Bermuda. There were some other posts that 299 00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,200 Speaker 3: were discussed. They were also excellent posts, but we decided 300 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:56,880 Speaker 3: on Bermuda. At that point, Bermuda was the tenth most 301 00:16:57,000 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 3: visited country by US citizens and and it's still today 302 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 3: one of the largest centers of the reinsurance industry. So 303 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,000 Speaker 3: if you have insurance anywhere in the United States, certainly 304 00:17:09,119 --> 00:17:11,679 Speaker 3: some of that is laid off in Bermuda. So it's 305 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,000 Speaker 3: an important country for US economically. And it was a 306 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 3: great delight and a real pleasure from my family and myself. 307 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:20,639 Speaker 2: So you mentioned being with McKenzie company. Where did you 308 00:17:20,680 --> 00:17:21,760 Speaker 2: live while you worked with them? 309 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:25,560 Speaker 3: I first worked with mackenzie in Paris. They gave me 310 00:17:25,600 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 3: a summer internship between my first and second year at 311 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:32,399 Speaker 3: Harvard Business School. I speak French pretty fluently and that 312 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:35,000 Speaker 3: was a great honor. Then I work with them in 313 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:37,919 Speaker 3: New York City. I went down to Buenos Aires to 314 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 3: help found the mckinzian Company in Argentina, which was also 315 00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:44,240 Speaker 3: a great honor. I love McKenzie. It's a great firm, 316 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 3: great people. That was a real pleasure. I still stay 317 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:49,959 Speaker 3: in touch with a lot of my former colleagues from 318 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:51,879 Speaker 3: mckenzian company. Really fine firm. 319 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: That's great. 320 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:54,800 Speaker 2: To go back to your book, One of your major 321 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 2: themes is about the scale of the Russian disinformation campaign. 322 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 2: Can you explain how the Russians approach all this and 323 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:02,679 Speaker 2: how they do it? 324 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,359 Speaker 3: Yes, this dates back to the KGB days of the 325 00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:11,479 Speaker 3: Soviet Union, what they called active measures. Now the FSB 326 00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 3: doesn't use that term anymore, but of course, as you know, 327 00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 3: Vladimir Putin is a former KGB officer and he loves 328 00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 3: that kind of stuff. So they have accelerated their misinformation 329 00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 3: and disinformation campaigns. Western intelligence services believe that they spent 330 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 3: at least one point two billion dollars a year on disinformation, 331 00:18:35,119 --> 00:18:39,240 Speaker 3: misinformation propaganda, and I think that is a more or 332 00:18:39,280 --> 00:18:42,919 Speaker 3: less accurate number that buys you an awful lot of 333 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,119 Speaker 3: you know, I want to be diplomatic. I mean, we 334 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 3: can disagree about things, but to say that NATO started 335 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 3: this war, Ukraine started this war, or Ukraine doesn't have 336 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:58,400 Speaker 3: freedom of religion, when our book documents over five hundred 337 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 3: Christian churches that have been closed, have been bombed, have 338 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 3: been destroyed, or the priests or pastors had been jailed 339 00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 3: in the occupied Ukrainian territories over the last two years, 340 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,919 Speaker 3: over five hundred. There is no religious freedom in Russia. 341 00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:15,440 Speaker 3: There is religious freedom in Ukraine. And that's the type 342 00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:17,640 Speaker 3: of disinformation we want to take head. 343 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 1: Off part of what I'm struck with. 344 00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:40,760 Speaker 2: And I'm very much for the survival of Ukraine, and 345 00:19:40,800 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 2: I think that there's qualitatively no comparison between the dictatorship 346 00:19:45,640 --> 00:19:48,560 Speaker 2: in Moscow and the efforts of the Ukrainian people to 347 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 2: be self governing. But at the same time, Putin has 348 00:19:52,359 --> 00:19:54,479 Speaker 2: been very open for a very long time that in 349 00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:58,560 Speaker 2: his worldview, the greatest disaster in the twentieth century was 350 00:19:58,600 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 2: the collapse of the Soviet Union, and that, in a 351 00:20:01,480 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 2: sense he represents a kind of almost paranoid Russian nationalism 352 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 2: which sees itself permanently under siege, not just from the Americans, 353 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 2: but from everybody. Do you think that he is tired enough, 354 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:19,560 Speaker 2: or that his system, not him personally, is tired enough 355 00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 2: that it is plausible that they will in fact accept 356 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 2: a serious truth. 357 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 3: Well, I can only hope. But what you say must 358 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:32,520 Speaker 3: be noted, because Putin has said over and over what 359 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:35,720 Speaker 3: you just mentioned. The greatest tragedy of the twentieth centuries 360 00:20:35,760 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 3: followed the Soviet Union, and he sees himself as Peter 361 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,199 Speaker 3: the Great. He wants to re establish Soviet Union. What 362 00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,359 Speaker 3: does that mean for Poland? What does it mean for 363 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 3: all the former Soviet states? That's why Poland is in 364 00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 3: this battle. That's why Poland is one of the greatest 365 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,359 Speaker 3: allies of Ukraine, and not just Poland, all those former 366 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:58,359 Speaker 3: Soviet states except the ones that are lap dogs, like Belarus. 367 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:02,120 Speaker 3: Belarus is not dependent country in any way. They do 368 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,840 Speaker 3: whatever Putin wants them to do, but everyone else is 369 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,919 Speaker 3: opposed because they know they are next and that's what 370 00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 3: we've got to think is members of NATO. 371 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:12,760 Speaker 1: I was reviewing GO today. 372 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 2: The Western countries in NATO have actually put forces into Lithuania, Latvia, 373 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 2: in Estonia. They're not big forces, but they're enough that 374 00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:24,000 Speaker 2: they would be signaling devices, if you want to think 375 00:21:24,040 --> 00:21:24,600 Speaker 2: of it that way. 376 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:26,040 Speaker 1: But again, from a. 377 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 2: Prudent standpoint, it's almost like his aggressiveness has backfired totally me. 378 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 2: You now have Sweden and Finland in NATO, which they 379 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,800 Speaker 2: never would have done it. You have the Swiss buying 380 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:40,320 Speaker 2: F thirty five's and talking about increasing their defense budget. 381 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:41,760 Speaker 1: I mean, in a lot of ways. 382 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 2: His aggressiveness, it seems to me, has actually put Russia 383 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:46,920 Speaker 2: at a greater disadvantage. 384 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 3: I totally agree. New But remember one of the greatest 385 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:55,280 Speaker 3: weaknesses of any dictatorship, not just Russia, right, is that 386 00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 3: the paramount leader doesn't hear bad news. He just doesn't. 387 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 3: That's why the Russian military split up their forces into 388 00:22:03,359 --> 00:22:05,640 Speaker 3: three different because he was told, and they were told 389 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 3: time and time again. Ukrainians are going to greet you 390 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 3: with bread and salt, they love you, blah blah blah. 391 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 3: And that's why Putin is not hearing about all these 392 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 3: military disasters, that his army has been absolutely pummeled in 393 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 3: terms of material losses, in terms of manpower. From what 394 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 3: I understand, Putin is not hearing that because you do 395 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,080 Speaker 3: not bring bad news to the boss. 396 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: Given all that, is there a circumstance where we could 397 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:39,280 Speaker 2: develop a truce that would actually stick as opposed to 398 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:42,680 Speaker 2: just being a breathing space for Putin to rebuilder. 399 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:46,280 Speaker 3: That's the million dollar question. And I believe that what 400 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 3: France and England are talking about European boots on the ground, 401 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 3: as much as Putin hates that, with an American backstop, 402 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:58,720 Speaker 3: that doesn't really work without American intelligence, American oversight, American 403 00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:03,240 Speaker 3: military backstop, but with an American military backstep, and especially 404 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,080 Speaker 3: the minerals deal, where Americans are exploring and mining and 405 00:23:08,119 --> 00:23:12,480 Speaker 3: refining large amounts. These are not poultry amounts of critical minerals. 406 00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,199 Speaker 3: These are large amounts of critical minerals. I think it 407 00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 3: could hold. Remember that Putin not only has suffered great 408 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:23,600 Speaker 3: losses geopolitically, the loss of Syria was a huge blow 409 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 3: to his prestige because Big called and said we have this. 410 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 3: We know that the former dictator called Russia and asked 411 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:35,600 Speaker 3: Putin for help, and Putin said effectively. Yet that is 412 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,320 Speaker 3: not a good look for a wanna be ruler of 413 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:39,080 Speaker 3: the world. 414 00:23:39,320 --> 00:23:43,680 Speaker 2: It's also interesting because the Western allies in the United 415 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,280 Speaker 2: States bought Ukraine time. 416 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: People forget. 417 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,040 Speaker 2: Ukraine used to be a very important manufacturing center for 418 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 2: the Civil Union. They built the largest freight carrying aircraft 419 00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:58,000 Speaker 2: in the world, they built nuclear weapons. Today they're building 420 00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 2: I think forty thousand drones. 421 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:03,520 Speaker 3: Of I think the number is actually substantially higher than 422 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,159 Speaker 3: that new but it's impressive. 423 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 2: That would suggest they may be much harder for the 424 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 2: Russians to defeat than people think. 425 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, you're absolutely right. Ukrainians are smart, they're resourceful, 426 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 3: they're good business people, and yeah, the actual number from 427 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 3: what I've told from Kiev is far higher than that. 428 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:27,440 Speaker 3: And that's great news because otherwise it's asymmetric in terms 429 00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 3: of the number of soldiers as you know, and shells 430 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,479 Speaker 3: and everything. But it's been the drones that have been 431 00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 3: super impressive. Something else most people don't realize is Russia 432 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:40,800 Speaker 3: just doesn't have the manpower to occupy Ukraine. Just doesn't. 433 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 3: Depending on different calculations and how rest of the Ukrainians 434 00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 3: would be under Russian occupation. You're talking about maybe a 435 00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 3: quarter of a million troops in Ukraine. That doesn't work 436 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 3: for Russia if you want to have forces elsewhere as well. 437 00:24:55,840 --> 00:25:00,920 Speaker 3: You know, we see the losses of Russian ally in 438 00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:04,919 Speaker 3: the occupied territories. Almost every day, some Russian mayor or 439 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:07,960 Speaker 3: vice mayor or someone is getting killed. That's just not 440 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,600 Speaker 3: going to work. A Russian occupation of Ukraine just will 441 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:12,240 Speaker 3: not work. 442 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 2: One of the things that was sort of an amazing 443 00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 2: technological change was Elon Musk shifting the starlink system to 444 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 2: put it over Ukraine. 445 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:24,199 Speaker 1: How big a deal was that. 446 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 3: Starlink is absolutely critical to the Ukrainian military, absolutely critical. 447 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 3: There's a few alternatives of starlink that have been developed, 448 00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,960 Speaker 3: but starlink is absolutely critical and the Ukrainians use it 449 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:38,760 Speaker 3: all the time. By the way, the Russians are using 450 00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 3: it now too, as you probably know, but the Ukrainians 451 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 3: use it extensively, and it has been super helpful because 452 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,359 Speaker 3: without information, you know, you can't use drones, you can't 453 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,320 Speaker 3: use anything, right, if you don't know where your enemy is, 454 00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:54,320 Speaker 3: you can't hit it. 455 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,040 Speaker 2: In the early phase of the war, to a degree 456 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 2: you wouldn't expect from an individual, even the richest in 457 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 2: the world as opposed to a country. 458 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: His decisions were really. 459 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:08,120 Speaker 3: Important, critically important, and you know, I appreciate he comes 460 00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 3: in for a lot of criticism, and maybe some of 461 00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 3: it is justifiable. But that decision, just like when Zelensky said, Hey, 462 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 3: I don't need a ride, I need ammunition. The fight 463 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 3: is right here. That's the kind of Winston Churchill type 464 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 3: statement that really rallied the Ukrainians, helped them to kick 465 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,320 Speaker 3: the Russians out of Kiev. And here we are three 466 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 3: years later, still fighting. 467 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,280 Speaker 2: What led you to decide to do portraits of Ukraine 468 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:32,520 Speaker 2: a nation of war? 469 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,399 Speaker 3: Thank you, Nude. I appreciate your asking that. Since very 470 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 3: early after the Russian invasion, we began with a number 471 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:45,199 Speaker 3: of other great Christian faith based organizations to deliver large 472 00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:49,119 Speaker 3: trucks into the war zones of Eastern and southern Ukraine, 473 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 3: trucks full of food, some medical supplies, but I'd say 474 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,199 Speaker 3: ninety eight percent food because people were starving. I mean 475 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,480 Speaker 3: that all the grocery stores had been destroyed, there was 476 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 3: nothing there. We have a network of over one hundred 477 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 3: small distribution centers, many or churches, some are synagogue, some 478 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 3: are community centers. And what we saw there is that 479 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:13,560 Speaker 3: the need was just escalating and donor fatigue was understandably 480 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 3: setting in. So we decided together as a family that 481 00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:21,560 Speaker 3: we wanted to do something for Ukraine, both to generate 482 00:27:21,960 --> 00:27:25,720 Speaker 3: revenue for these great Ukrainian nonprofits, but also we kept 483 00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 3: hearing these crazy stories from people. You know, I'm not 484 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:32,440 Speaker 3: going to mention any names, but maybe Tucker Carlson comes 485 00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 3: to mind. Where does he get this stuff? He's a 486 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,600 Speaker 3: Kremlin mouthpiece and he knows better. I really believe that. 487 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 3: I don't think Tucker Carlson is stupid or whatever, but 488 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 3: for whatever reason, he and a whole bunch of other 489 00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:49,440 Speaker 3: people are spreading a lot of stuff that's just playing wrong. Yes, 490 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:52,879 Speaker 3: there is corruption in Ukraine, there's corruption in every former 491 00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 3: Soviet Union nation, but according to Transparency International and a 492 00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 3: number of others, Ukraine has gotten much much better over 493 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 3: the life last four or five years. They're working hard 494 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,640 Speaker 3: on that. And of course, freedom, democracy, the rule of law. 495 00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 3: Those are the cornerstones of civilization and that's what Americ 496 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:14,679 Speaker 3: stands for. I don't believe that we can wash our 497 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,320 Speaker 3: hands of this, and that's why we did the book Nude, 498 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:21,560 Speaker 3: because helping people understand this is not just a Ukrainian battle, 499 00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 3: This is not just a European battle. This is a 500 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:29,200 Speaker 3: battle for everyone who believes in freedom, in democracy, freedom 501 00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,960 Speaker 3: of religion, freedom of speech, freedom of assembly. You try 502 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,639 Speaker 3: to go to Russia and criticize Vladimir Putin, you'll be 503 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 3: there for less than a day, less than a day 504 00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:41,720 Speaker 3: until you're thrown in jail. There is no freedom in Russia. No. 505 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 2: I think that's right, and we get reminded of it regularly. Gregory, 506 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 2: I want to thank you for joining me. Your new book, 507 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,400 Speaker 2: Portraits of Ukraine a National War is available now on 508 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,600 Speaker 2: Amazon and in bookstores everywhere. It's an extraordinary book. I 509 00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 2: recommend everyone get a copy of it, and I do 510 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:00,920 Speaker 2: want to mention that all profit from the sale of 511 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:04,400 Speaker 2: your book go to pro Ukrainian charities that are helping 512 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:08,000 Speaker 2: the many millions of Ukrainians who've been deeply wounded by 513 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,520 Speaker 2: Russia's ongoing war. This is a real act of love 514 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 2: and dedication on your part, and you're taking the time 515 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:16,480 Speaker 2: to talk with us. I hope we'll educate some of 516 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 2: our listeners into understanding how important it is that Ukraine 517 00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 2: not be defeated and that Ukraine continue as independent country, 518 00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,880 Speaker 2: and that we do have an obligation to find a 519 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,440 Speaker 2: solution which hopefully will end the fighting, but will end 520 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 2: the fighting in ways that are permanent and that mean 521 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,880 Speaker 2: that Russia cannot come back and try again. 522 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 3: Well, you're exactly right, nude. It's such a pleasure and 523 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 3: an honor to be with you. Thank you for standing 524 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 3: for freedom and democracy and the rule of law all 525 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:47,120 Speaker 3: your life. That's a big deal. So I'm honored to 526 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,120 Speaker 3: be here. Thank you for having me, and let me 527 00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,080 Speaker 3: also wish God bless you and happy Easter and Slava Ukrainian. 528 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest, Gregory W. Slayton. 529 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 2: You can get a link to buy his new book, 530 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,440 Speaker 2: Portraits of Ukraine, A Nation at War on our show 531 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:06,280 Speaker 2: page at. 532 00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: Newtsworld dot com. 533 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:10,840 Speaker 2: Newt World is produced by Ginglish three sixty and iHeartMedia. 534 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Guernsey Sloan. Our researcher is Rachel Peterson. 535 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,520 Speaker 2: The artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. 536 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:23,000 Speaker 2: Special thanks to the team at ginglishtree sixty. If you've 537 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 2: been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast 538 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 2: and both rate us with five stars and give us 539 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: a review so others can learn what it's all about. 540 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,600 Speaker 2: Right now, listeners of Newtsworld can sign up for my 541 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:39,760 Speaker 2: three free weekly columns at gingishtree sixty dot com slash newsletter. 542 00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:42,360 Speaker 1: I'm Nute, gingrich. This is Newtsworld.