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Speaker 1: This is the most dramatic podcast ever and iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 1: Chris Harrison and welcome back to the most dramatic podcast

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Speaker 1: ever as we continue our conversation with Krystal Hefner, a

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Speaker 1: fascinating figure. She was one of Heff's girls and then

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Speaker 1: became one of Hugh Hefner's wives. He had several three,

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Speaker 1: I think, and he had four kids, and he ran

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Speaker 1: Playboy from nineteen fifty eight until the time of his

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Speaker 1: death when he was ninety one years old. But my

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Speaker 1: conversation today is with Crystal Hefner, who just dropped a

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Speaker 1: book it is Only Say Good Things, Surviving Playboy and

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Speaker 1: Finding Myself. And she just has a podcast where she

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Speaker 1: talks about this book called Beneath the Surface. Crystal and

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Speaker 1: I talked at length about how this all happened when

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Speaker 1: she was twenty one years old, how she came to

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Speaker 1: the mansion for a Halloween party with a friend and

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Speaker 1: just got swept up in this wave of excitement and

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Speaker 1: emotion and glamour and celebrity. What all of this stood

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Speaker 1: for All of a sudden, she was sitting beside Hugh Hefner.

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Speaker 1: She was the bell of the ball, and she ended

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Speaker 1: up going up that night having sex with Hugh Hefner

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Speaker 1: with several other women in the bedroom, and the dominoes

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Speaker 1: were in place and they started to fall, and all

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Speaker 1: of a sudden she became one of Hugh Heffner's girls.

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Speaker 1: So we covered a lot of this, and if you

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Speaker 1: haven't listened to it, go back and listen to that

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Speaker 1: first podcast. But what I want to jump into today

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Speaker 1: is where we are now. How is she doing? Her

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Speaker 1: thoughts on Playboy, her thoughts on Hugh Hefner. Did she

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Speaker 1: get anything when Hugh Hefner died? Was she left in

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Speaker 1: the will? So let's continue our conversation with Crystal Hefner.

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Speaker 1: There was the moment when you realize that you were

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Speaker 1: just a pawn in this game and this was not

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Speaker 1: healthy for you, and the loyalty, maybe the father figure,

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Speaker 1: the person that you thought that not only half represented,

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Speaker 1: but maybe the mansion in general was not there for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, hef You know, I know now that hef was

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Speaker 2: a narcissist, like an extreme form of a narcissist. And

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Speaker 2: I did think he was somebody who would look out

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Speaker 2: for me, or at least be interested in anything that

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Speaker 2: I cared about or liked but that wasn't the case.

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Speaker 2: And it took me only until recently, you know, just

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Speaker 2: before I wrote this book to truly understand like that

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Speaker 2: is just He was the definition of a narcissist for sure.

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Speaker 1: And the weird thing, I have a lot of experience

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Speaker 1: with narcissism and I've done a lot of work in

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Speaker 1: studying on this myself. And the interesting thing is, and

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Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, because I don't want to

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Speaker 1: speak for you, but did you It's something you It's

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Speaker 1: hard to realize in the moment, and I'm sure you

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Speaker 1: felt like I can and pour more into this. I

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Speaker 1: can fill up that bucket that has a hole in

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Speaker 1: the bottom. And if I love him harder, if I

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Speaker 1: love this life harder, if I put more into it,

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Speaker 1: I will get this back. But you don't realize you're

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Speaker 1: on the Titanic and it's sinking with or without you.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely I agree with that one, because that's that's what

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Speaker 2: you do, and that's what I did.

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Speaker 3: Like I'm going to try harder.

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Speaker 1: And my guess is, if I go back into your

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Speaker 1: life and your childhood, and I'm sure you've talked about

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Speaker 1: this in therapy, is you're probably a caretaker by nature,

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Speaker 1: you're you're someone who likes to love and likes to

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Speaker 1: take care of people. I'm sure after your dad passed

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Speaker 1: you nurtured your mom in this way and tried to

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Speaker 1: be the peacekeeper.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, I feel like I had to fill that role.

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Speaker 2: You know, my mom would be sad and crying and

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Speaker 2: I'd say, you know, it's okay, or you know, tough love.

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Speaker 2: And I felt like I had to grow out fast.

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Speaker 2: And I also feel like I was a people pleaser

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Speaker 2: and I have been a people pleaser, and you sacrifice

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Speaker 2: yourself and your own needs for other people, and it's

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Speaker 2: like and then then you just feel resentment and it's hard,

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Speaker 2: and that's no way to live.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I'm sure people can read your story in

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Speaker 1: the book and say, oh, well, you know, she went

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Speaker 1: for the celebrities, she went for that life, and you

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Speaker 1: know it's all on her. But what I see as

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Speaker 1: a young girl who saw a way out, a way

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Speaker 1: to a better life and people that may love you,

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Speaker 1: and maybe a community and a family that you didn't have.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, that's what I was hoping for.

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Speaker 1: And so you don't have that self realization because obviously

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Speaker 1: we're having these it's easy to look back now and

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Speaker 1: you think, well, why didn't you think that then? So

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Speaker 1: let's just know that she did not have this self

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Speaker 1: realization back then, because this led to you actually got

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Speaker 1: engaged to HEF And that's what what year did you

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Speaker 1: get engaged?

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Speaker 3: Twenty eleven?

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Speaker 1: Okay, so three years into this you get engaged, and

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Speaker 1: all along you are making appearances. Know, I saw you,

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Speaker 1: We all saw you. You were very public. You had

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Speaker 1: to go on red carpets, you attended parties, You were

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Speaker 1: you had to be there at the right hand, you know,

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Speaker 1: perfect and showing that playboy image, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, it was exhausting.

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Speaker 1: It has to be. I mean so every every night

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Speaker 1: I'm just curious, you know the logistics of that. Is

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Speaker 1: there a do you have a secretary or is there

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Speaker 1: a playboy secretary of Like, Okay, Crystal, this week you

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Speaker 1: have a Playboy party, we have a red carpet, we

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Speaker 1: have a movie premiere. You know, we're opening up at

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Speaker 1: casino in Vegas. How do you find out about these things?

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Speaker 1: And when do you know that you're going to be involved?

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Speaker 2: Sometimes he would tell me, but there was no one

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Speaker 2: that was specifically helping me at all. But yeah, I

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Speaker 2: would I would ask or half would tell us like, oh,

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Speaker 2: something's coming up, and you know, you'd have to get

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Speaker 2: ready for it and get some stupid little outfit and

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Speaker 2: wear some heels I hate.

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Speaker 3: And yeah, it's hard.

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Speaker 2: It's it's uh yeah, playing playing this role that is

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Speaker 2: just expected of you by somebody else is exhausting.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Were there any normal times of just the two

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Speaker 1: of you having breakfast or the two of you eating

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Speaker 1: a pizza? You know? I know there were movie nights,

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Speaker 1: but were there were there normal like dates or travel

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Speaker 1: or whatever that didn't involve work, Like did you ever

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Speaker 1: feel like, oh, it's just us, there's an intimate moment

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Speaker 1: happening here.

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Speaker 3: No. No, And Hefwood wouldn't leave the house unless he

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Speaker 3: was getting paid.

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Speaker 1: Wow, So he's almost a bit of a recluse in that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he was definitely a gorophobic, but he would make

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Speaker 2: exceptions if he was being paid enough money or being

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Speaker 2: flown private to whatever they wanted him to show up to.

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Speaker 1: He's a gooraphobic, except when it came to having sex

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Speaker 1: with a lot of people.

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Speaker 3: That's weird.

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Speaker 1: He's fine with all that. That's interesting. So you never

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Speaker 1: had that that because I was just curious if there

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Speaker 1: was those times sometimes with a narcissist where they will

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Speaker 1: give you kind of a glimmer of hope. They'll give

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Speaker 1: you a little bit of love or a little bit

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Speaker 1: of appreciation, and you think, oh, there it is, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's in there. But you're saying you never had that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean he would tell me he loved me.

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Speaker 2: He would tell me, you know, certain things, but I

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Speaker 2: knew that it was just because I was like abiding

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Speaker 2: by the rules or yeah, any everything that was if

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Speaker 2: I was just helping him with something or boosting his

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Speaker 2: ego or being in his mirror, he I got rewarded

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Speaker 2: for that or told nice things.

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Speaker 3: But it's that's that's not real.

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Speaker 1: The mansion had an interesting set of boundaries and rules.

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Speaker 1: Almost I mean, I don't want to go too far,

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Speaker 1: but almost like a prison. If people came on property

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Speaker 1: and you weren't part of the crowd, you could knock

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Speaker 1: get out of your car someone. If you're picking someone up,

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Speaker 1: they got in your car, you know, when you drop

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Speaker 1: them off, you couldn't leave. How were those rules applied

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Speaker 1: to you? Were you free to roam? Could you get

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Speaker 1: in a car and leave for the weekend, Could you

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Speaker 1: have a girl's night. How would that work?

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Speaker 2: Well, you likening it to jail is very accurate. You know,

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Speaker 2: my collaborative rider, she's actually been to jail, and so

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Speaker 2: we related in a lot of ways, which is interesting.

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Speaker 3: I mean sometimes I wondered if my car was tapped.

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Speaker 3: You know, I did eventually get paranoid being.

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Speaker 2: There because I'd be in my little area and I'd see,

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Speaker 2: you know, shadows of feet going under the door, and

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Speaker 2: there was nowhere to have true privacy at the mansion,

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Speaker 2: so it almost did.

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Speaker 1: You always feel like maybe I'm being filmed at all times.

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Speaker 2: It's like a twenty four to seven job, and I

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Speaker 2: had to be home by six pm for movie nights

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Speaker 2: most days of the week, so I wasn't allowed to

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Speaker 2: go out at night, and I would write down like, oh,

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Speaker 2: I really want to see a concert or one Republic

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Speaker 2: or imagine dragons.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, one day I'll be able to go out

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Speaker 3: at night and go to a concert. Terrible.

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Speaker 1: Did you ever think I'm going to break free? Did

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Speaker 1: you ever have that kind of come to Jesus moment

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Speaker 1: where You're like, I'm going to climb the walls and

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Speaker 1: when I get a chance, I'm going to escape this life. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but you but you didn't. What kept you from not

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Speaker 1: doing that?

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Speaker 3: I tried once and.

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Speaker 1: Is this when you broke off the engagement?

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Speaker 3: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so you broke off the engagement for a bit.

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Speaker 2: This is just before I think the I felt like

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Speaker 2: everything was caving in on me. We started getting RSVPs.

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Speaker 2: There's like three hundred people Paris Hiltan and all kinds

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Speaker 2: of people were sending in there a RSVPs, and I thought,

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Speaker 2: this is this is getting out of Yeah, this is

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Speaker 2: getting out of hand. I didn't I didn't invite anyone this.

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Speaker 2: And then I remember Half coming into my little area

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Speaker 2: called the Vanity, which was just part of his closet,

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Speaker 2: and he handed me a talent. It was like a

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Speaker 2: like a release because he was filming an episode or

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Speaker 2: a two hour special on Lifetime called Marrying Half.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so we got engaged.

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Speaker 2: This two hour special on Lifetime was about to happen,

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Speaker 2: called Marrying Half. He brought the paperwork in for me

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Speaker 2: to sign, and I had I had overheard him and

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Speaker 2: the producer saying they were going to make eight hundred

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars for this two hour special. And he handed

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Speaker 2: me this paperwork. This release, and I said, my talent

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Speaker 2: fee was twenty five hundred dollars, and I'd be the

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Speaker 2: one carrying the show, going to the flower mart, doing

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Speaker 2: all the things she don't even want to do.

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Speaker 1: Nobody cares about I mean, in all respect, no one

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Speaker 1: cares about Half. They care about you, and that that

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Speaker 1: life and the girls revolving around him for sure, y'all,

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Speaker 1: y'all are the story.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I like to think so, but he

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Speaker 3: did not make me feel that way.

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Speaker 2: So I did tell him, I said, it does feel

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Speaker 2: like a little bit of a slap in the face.

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Speaker 2: I know you're making eight hundred thousand dollars on this,

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Speaker 2: twenty five hundred feels low.

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Speaker 3: Like to make me maybe like ten thousand, make me

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Speaker 3: feel a little better about it. And he told me,

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Speaker 3: what are you in this for?

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Speaker 1: What are you in it for?

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Speaker 3: I immediately got.

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Speaker 2: PTSD to all the interviews where people are like, you're

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Speaker 2: a gold digger, You're all a sawyah, And I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh no, now Helf's thinking this too. I'd never asked

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Speaker 2: him for anything, and I'm like, I got to get

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Speaker 2: out of here. And so I first time I just

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Speaker 2: went against Half.

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Speaker 3: I left the vanity I stormed out. I went down

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Speaker 3: the back gate. There's like a one gate in, one

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Speaker 3: gate out, and the security office is down there.

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Speaker 2: And as I'm going toward the back gate, usually they

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Speaker 2: open the doors for me they see me coming.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and the doors.

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Speaker 2: Are still the gate's still shut. And then I hear

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Speaker 2: a speakerphone. Hef Is called down and said if Crystal

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Speaker 2: tries to leave, detain her.

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Speaker 1: Oh wow.

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Speaker 2: Basically didn't want me to leave the house. And I thought, wow,

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Speaker 2: I am truly trapped. Yeah, so I just put my

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Speaker 2: head down like a sad poppy, went back into the

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Speaker 2: house and thought, Okay, if I'm going to do this,

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna do it.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 1: Were you ever paid for Amy? I know you talk

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Speaker 1: about the twenty five hundred thing, but were you paid?

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Speaker 1: Like did you get a monthly stipend? Did you get

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Speaker 1: an allowance? How did that work? How did you earn

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Speaker 1: a living?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he gave me one thousand dollars every Friday.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And I talk about in the book how we

250
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Speaker 2: have to go into his room and ask him for it.

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Speaker 3: Like, hey, hef can we have our allowance?

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Speaker 2: And he gets it out of the locked cabinet and

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Speaker 2: he sets it down one one hundred, two hundred three hundred.

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Speaker 2: Whoa and yeah, like having to beg for that like

255
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Speaker 2: forty eight thousand years that is.

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Speaker 1: So dark and dysfunctional and creepy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it is creepy. I'm like, how did I know

258
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Speaker 2: think of this or like realize this sooner?

259
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Speaker 3: But you when you're stuck in it.

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Speaker 1: I hope you've given yourself some grace and I'm sure

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Speaker 1: again back to your therapist. I'm sure your therapist has

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Speaker 1: talked to you about this, But have you been hard

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Speaker 1: on yourself? Have you because obviously there's so much regret

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Speaker 1: of decisions made and things you could have done. Have

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Speaker 1: you taken it easy on yourself or are you really

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Speaker 1: hard on yourself? Of how could I have been so blind?

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Speaker 1: Like why why? Crystal?

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Speaker 2: I feel that I can be less hard on myself

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Speaker 2: than I am.

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Speaker 3: You know, it's not.

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Speaker 2: Only hard in myself in that way, but also in appearance.

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Speaker 2: You know, as I'm doing interviews and things for the book,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, I look that one or oh that's

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Speaker 2: and I'm just like, stop beating yourself up. Yeah, you know,

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Speaker 2: like it was so ingrained in the mansion in a

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Speaker 2: cellular level to like, look, the best you can be

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Speaker 2: the best.

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Speaker 3: It's gross.

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Speaker 1: Well, I hope you have come to terms with that,

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Speaker 1: you know, whether it's through therapy or whatever. Where you

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Speaker 1: it seems like obviously part of the book is and

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Speaker 1: finding myself. That's the that's the end of the title

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Speaker 1: of the book. And have you found yourself? Do you

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Speaker 1: feel like you have come of age and feel like

285
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Speaker 1: you are a comfortable, strong, independent woman? Now?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think yeah, I'm a work in progress. You

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Speaker 3: know the thing that all.

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Speaker 1: Are, crystal, We all are. How old are you? Know,

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Speaker 1: by the way, I'm just how old are you?

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Speaker 3: Thirty seven?

291
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Speaker 1: Thirty seven? So you'll continue, you will continue to evolve. Yeah, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's it's it's always a work in progress.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I feel that looking back on the mansion. And

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Speaker 3: you know, when Half.

295
00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:05,240
Speaker 2: Created Playboy and talks about Playboy, It's supposed to be

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Speaker 2: this place of freedom, freedom of expression, freedom of everything,

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Speaker 2: and I felt anything but I felt completely trapped. But

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Speaker 2: now I feel that I am actually truly free. I

299
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Speaker 2: do what I want whenever I want. I have a

300
00:15:23,000 --> 00:15:25,840
Speaker 2: farm in Hawaii that I visit often. I love being

301
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Speaker 2: in nature, and I think I'm just finding myself and

302
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Speaker 2: with this book. I felt it was just important to

303
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Speaker 2: take back, you know, my power and also help other women.

304
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Speaker 2: I'm getting overwhelming response from people that have been in

305
00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,120
Speaker 2: bad relationships and just can relate on so many different

306
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Speaker 2: levels with the book, and I'm very grateful for that.

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Speaker 1: Well, I mean, you, if you strip away the Hugh

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Speaker 1: Heffner name and the mansion and the Playboy title, your

309
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,760
Speaker 1: tale male or female is one that's actually told too often,

310
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Speaker 1: which is a controlling, narcissistic relationship with no boundaries and

311
00:16:03,440 --> 00:16:06,120
Speaker 1: a power dynamic that's way out a skew. And so

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it has been unbelievably relatable for a lot

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Speaker 1: of people, and that if if nothing else comes of this,

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Speaker 1: that's wonderful that you're doing that for people.

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Speaker 3: Thank you.

316
00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:19,240
Speaker 1: So you mentioned in a couple of these interviews that

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Speaker 1: you have started dating. So you were married to half

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Speaker 1: until he died in what twenty seventeen, So we are,

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Speaker 1: you know, four or five years you know, we're removed

320
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Speaker 1: from that. So you've started dating again, and I'm curious

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00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:43,920
Speaker 1: what the feel is on these dates for you, and

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Speaker 1: then what is the response you're getting.

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Speaker 3: When I first left the mansion and I was trying

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Speaker 3: to date. It was a dumpster fire. It was awful.

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Speaker 2: I found myself dating people maybe they were like a

326
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Speaker 2: struggling musician or actor.

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Speaker 1: And right, well, one strike against you. You're still in La.

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Speaker 1: I mean, let's just say right there.

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Speaker 3: It's like, I need to get out of here.

330
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Speaker 1: A city of lost souls is where you're trying to date.

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Speaker 3: I know.

332
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Speaker 2: So I'm like, okay, these people are manipulating me. They're controlling.

333
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Speaker 2: Like it's the same thing as the management, except this

334
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:19,720
Speaker 2: time I'm paying the bills.

335
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Speaker 3: What is wrong with me?

336
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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: But LA is a very I dated in LA for

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Speaker 1: quite some time. It is a very, very difficult place

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Speaker 1: to date. And you think, oh, there's you know, there's

340
00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:33,399
Speaker 1: movie stars, and there's celebrities, and there's lots of money

341
00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,320
Speaker 1: and fame and fortune. But it is an interesting place

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00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:39,119
Speaker 1: for human beings at a lot of people come to

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Speaker 1: LA for different reasons. And I'm sure you are surrounded

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Speaker 1: by still that world of celebrity and TV and entertainment.

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00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,560
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And I thought, you know, I do think

346
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Speaker 2: often like why do I still live here? You know,

347
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,919
Speaker 2: I don't want to be in the entertainment industry.

348
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Speaker 3: I don't know why. Why I'm still here, but you know,

349
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Speaker 3: I've looked around and until I find some where.

350
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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, la can honestly be like the mansion.

351
00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:10,200
Speaker 1: It is a place that, once it gets it's hooks

352
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Speaker 1: into you, it is hard to quit her. I knew

353
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Speaker 1: I was always going to move back here. I'm talking

354
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:18,679
Speaker 1: to you from Austin, Texas today, where Lauren and I

355
00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:20,960
Speaker 1: have set up our home and love our life. But

356
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,560
Speaker 1: even though I knew I was going to move back

357
00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,960
Speaker 1: home to Texas, eventually, it was hard to kind of

358
00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:29,359
Speaker 1: pull that ripcord. There's something about especially when you're in

359
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:32,000
Speaker 1: the industry, and I know you aren't technically in the industry,

360
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,680
Speaker 1: but you were, and so it's hard to kind of

361
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,800
Speaker 1: pull that ripcord because you feel like, am I going

362
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:40,680
Speaker 1: to miss everything? Miss not just the life, but just

363
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,479
Speaker 1: the opportunities, am I? You know, there's lunches and just

364
00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,280
Speaker 1: things that happened by being in and around that world

365
00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:50,040
Speaker 1: that's beneficial, and you feel, oh my gosh, if I'm

366
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:51,800
Speaker 1: out of sight, I'm going to be out of mind.

367
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, in a weird way, this has felt

368
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,359
Speaker 2: like home. You know, I've loved here since two thousand and.

369
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Speaker 1: Eight, So yeah, have you had any good dates?

370
00:19:01,040 --> 00:19:01,359
Speaker 3: Yes?

371
00:19:01,760 --> 00:19:05,920
Speaker 2: So yeah, I recently have been meeting people that are

372
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:07,639
Speaker 2: a lot more healthy for me.

373
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Speaker 3: Some of those people.

374
00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:16,760
Speaker 2: Have not lived in Los Angeles, but most recently I

375
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:19,919
Speaker 2: am dating somebody who lives in Los Angeles, but they

376
00:19:20,359 --> 00:19:23,040
Speaker 2: just moved here from somewhere else. So I'm like, I

377
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,880
Speaker 2: caught them before they got to corrupted.

378
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:29,200
Speaker 1: Before they got corrupted and tainted. Where does Crystal Havener

379
00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:30,640
Speaker 1: meet people online?

380
00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:33,080
Speaker 2: I'm such an introvert. I barely leave my house. I

381
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:34,200
Speaker 2: use the Rya app.

382
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:39,240
Speaker 1: There you go. Okay, so it is, But I'm glad

383
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,560
Speaker 1: you're I'm glad you're seeing somebody. Whether it's serious or not,

384
00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,200
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It's just I'm glad you are finding

385
00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,439
Speaker 1: joy in a relationship again. I'm sure it has taken

386
00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:51,040
Speaker 1: a lot of work to get the trust back to

387
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:55,800
Speaker 1: that level. I can't imagine how damage you were coming

388
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:58,399
Speaker 1: out of that marriage. I mean it was it was

389
00:19:58,440 --> 00:19:59,680
Speaker 1: an abusive relationship.

390
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, And now if I come across any of

391
00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:04,720
Speaker 2: that stuff, it just makes me angry.

392
00:20:04,760 --> 00:20:06,600
Speaker 3: And so.

393
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:19,840
Speaker 4: Yeah.

394
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,560
Speaker 1: Upon his death, he was what ninety one years old.

395
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,800
Speaker 1: He died in twenty seventeen. There was four children. He

396
00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:29,480
Speaker 1: had four kids from a different marriage, y'all didn't have any.

397
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: But when he dies, are you thinking I'm going to

398
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,520
Speaker 1: get something? He will leave me something in the will?

399
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,000
Speaker 1: And did he leave you anything?

400
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 2: Well, I think by that time, you know, he did

401
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,280
Speaker 2: bank on Playboy stock, but at that time stocks were

402
00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:49,000
Speaker 2: going down.

403
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,399
Speaker 1: I was in the toilet the company. Yeah, so I

404
00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:54,200
Speaker 1: think by the time he died, he had already sold

405
00:20:54,240 --> 00:20:56,080
Speaker 1: the mansion. But they allowed him to live out the

406
00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:58,159
Speaker 1: rest of his days there, but he had already sold that.

407
00:20:58,720 --> 00:21:02,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, he sold the company first, and then the company

408
00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,720
Speaker 2: sold the mansion, so that money went to the company,

409
00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:07,240
Speaker 2: which I think is still going.

410
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 3: I have no.

411
00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,919
Speaker 1: Idea it is. It's just not anything like what it

412
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:11,720
Speaker 1: used to be.

413
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is probably probably for the better.

414
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting. It's interesting. You know you were there

415
00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:24,160
Speaker 1: kind of for the downfall and the demise of it.

416
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,560
Speaker 1: Did you feel his panic? Was there? Anger? Was there?

417
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:32,520
Speaker 1: Frustration of you know, I used to you know, Playboy

418
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,000
Speaker 1: used to be this, and that's how he got his identity.

419
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: So what he's saying is I used to be this

420
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,359
Speaker 1: and now I'm kind of a cocktail joke on many levels,

421
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 1: and the me Too movement is happening, and you know,

422
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,240
Speaker 1: posing nude is not cool, and the misogyny and all

423
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,600
Speaker 1: that stuff really happened while you were there for those

424
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:50,280
Speaker 1: nine years.

425
00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think he ever thought those things.

426
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,080
Speaker 2: I think that he feels Playboy is the best company

427
00:21:57,119 --> 00:22:00,639
Speaker 2: ever and everything was great. You know, he died just

428
00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,240
Speaker 2: before me too, like the Cosby stuff that started coming

429
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:05,040
Speaker 2: out around that time, but he died before me.

430
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 3: Too and all other stuff. And you know, it's like, right,

431
00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:09,879
Speaker 3: he died right in time.

432
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:14,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean so honestly, luckily lucky for him, he

433
00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,199
Speaker 1: would have if anybody had gone through it. But it

434
00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 1: was interesting and I don't know if you know this

435
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:25,520
Speaker 1: at all the history of Playboy, which I talked a

436
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 1: little bit about at the beginning of this when I

437
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:32,439
Speaker 1: introed you, But did you Was it always like this

438
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:36,640
Speaker 1: with hef where he had those women around, he controlled

439
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:40,800
Speaker 1: the women, or was it more of a business sense,

440
00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 1: and then he started adding women in the eighties and

441
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,040
Speaker 1: or you know, the nineties and the two thousands that

442
00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:48,119
Speaker 1: lived with him.

443
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel that he always saw women as objects.

444
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 2: I think back to the very first issue, Marilyn Monroe.

445
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,000
Speaker 2: He bought naked photos from account her company. She never

446
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,640
Speaker 2: got paid a dime, and she's the one that catapulted

447
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: Playboy into the wildly successful magazine that it was.

448
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, nineteen fifty eight is when he bought those photos

449
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:14,040
Speaker 1: and put out the first publication.

450
00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:18,280
Speaker 3: He's Yeah, and he's buried right next to her at

451
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:19,360
Speaker 3: Westwood Memorial.

452
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure she's happy about that in the afterlife.

453
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like she didn't have a say of whose

454
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 3: bones were being buried next to her. I talked about

455
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 3: that book.

456
00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 1: Oh, Crystal, I am so I'm just I appreciate your time.

457
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:35,919
Speaker 1: I am so interested in everything that went on in

458
00:23:35,960 --> 00:23:37,480
Speaker 1: your life. And you and I have met a couple

459
00:23:37,560 --> 00:23:39,199
Speaker 1: of times, and I have always found you to be

460
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,840
Speaker 1: such a lovely, kind person. I think one time you

461
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: told me, or Hugh Hefner told me on a red

462
00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,240
Speaker 1: carpet launch, like we you know, we get together on

463
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 1: Mondays and we watched The Bachelor from time to time.

464
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 3: We used to watch the show.

465
00:23:53,320 --> 00:23:56,399
Speaker 1: And the house I had heard and you do you

466
00:23:56,400 --> 00:23:57,840
Speaker 1: remember you were the one that told me that.

467
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember watching the show.

468
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, how does he deal with all that drama?

469
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: I like that you had empathy for me of all people,

470
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: like I should have been I should have held you,

471
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: and like I'm taking you away from here, Crystal, let's

472
00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: get out of here instead. I love it that you're

473
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 1: such a caretaker. You were like, how does this guy

474
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 1: handle all of this craziness? Yeah, I had my own

475
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: version of the of the Mansion going, but it was funny.

476
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: I vividly remember running into you and you told me

477
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:28,600
Speaker 1: that one time, and you were just such, You were

478
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,679
Speaker 1: such a love and you were so sweet, and so

479
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:32,840
Speaker 1: I was really excited when I had a chance to

480
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:35,280
Speaker 1: talk to you about your book, and you have the

481
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,720
Speaker 1: podcast going as well, Beneath the Surface, where you're kind

482
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,800
Speaker 1: of going through the book. Has that been cathartic for you?

483
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:41,919
Speaker 1: And are you enjoying it?

484
00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been really nice.

485
00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:45,760
Speaker 2: I think I didn't have a voice for so long,

486
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 2: and now I'm trying to exercise my voice, and it's

487
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:51,320
Speaker 2: been nice.

488
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:56,560
Speaker 1: Only say good things surviving the Playboy and finding myself

489
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: by Crystal Hefner, and I just I I wish you well,

490
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,399
Speaker 1: I wish you love, and I hope you find an

491
00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,240
Speaker 1: amazing relationship in your life. But most of all, as

492
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,639
Speaker 1: you are telling your truth and telling these stories. I

493
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,720
Speaker 1: hope you will continue to do it, unabashed and unafraid

494
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 1: because this is not his story. It's your story, and

495
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:25,040
Speaker 1: screw him. Thank you, Crystal Hefner Again the book only

496
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: say good things Surviving Playboy and Finding Myself, And go

497
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,239
Speaker 1: check out the podcast Beneath the Surface again, thank you,

498
00:25:31,520 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 1: and I hope our paths will cross again soon.

499
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 3: Me too, Thank you.

500
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Follow us on Instagram at the most

501
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,040
Speaker 1: dramatic pod ever, and make sure to write us a

502
00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,719
Speaker 1: review and leave us five stars. I'll talk to you

503
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 1: next time.