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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff,

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Speaker 1: a podcast that usually isn't about shooting people. I'm your host,

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Speaker 1: Margaret Kiljoy, and that is the sketchiest introduction that I

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Speaker 1: will probably ever do for this show. My guest today

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Speaker 1: is also not sketchy, and his name's Carl. Hi, Carl.

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Speaker 2: Hey, it's so good to be here, and it's good

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Speaker 2: to see you again. It's been a little while and

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Speaker 2: it's a real treat to be on the show today. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I would say, yeah, shooting people is a sketchy thing. Sadly,

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Speaker 2: within history sometimes it's been less sketchy to shoot them

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Speaker 2: than to not. But that's a different topic.

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Speaker 1: That's the main topic we're going to talk about today.

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Speaker 1: Cool and Carl is the host of in Range TV,

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Speaker 1: which is a not just YouTube show where you can

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Speaker 1: learn about firearms. Is that a decent way to send

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Speaker 1: that up.

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I think so. It's a firearms channel at sensibly,

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Speaker 2: but I think it's much more a cultural historical channel

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Speaker 2: that deals with the topic of firearms through a different lens,

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Speaker 2: is kind of the way I put it. So we

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Speaker 2: try to deal with these topics in a way that

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Speaker 2: frequently other people who deal with firearms, don't approach them

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Speaker 2: from and I think that's part of the reason maybe

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Speaker 2: I'm here today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it is. I think the audience knows. I don't

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Speaker 1: tell my guests what they're going to be on to

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Speaker 1: talk about, but Sophie knows. Sophie is our producer, Hig.

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Speaker 3: Sophie, Hi, I do know. And then I liked that

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Speaker 3: description of your channel, Carl. I feel like that, really

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Speaker 3: like that. That really sums it up.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 3: That's great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, folks have it.

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Speaker 3: I was gonna say, I am here though, and we

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Speaker 3: are here, and.

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Speaker 1: And who else is?

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Speaker 3: But it's it's our editor, Ian, That's where.

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Speaker 1: You're going for right It is. Ian isn't here with

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Speaker 1: us on the zoom, but here's what Ian is with

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Speaker 1: us spiritually always yes present. So everyone has to say

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Speaker 1: Hi Ian Hi Ian, Hi Ian Hi Ian. Well, and

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Speaker 1: our theme music was written for us by unwoman. So

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Speaker 1: this week and next week, because we're going to do

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Speaker 1: a four part we're going to talk about two extraordinary

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Speaker 1: people who had a lot in common and an awful

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Speaker 1: lot not in common, who are more or less on

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Speaker 1: opposite sides of a war. Carl, have you ever heard

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Speaker 1: of the Great War? The World War It's sometimes called.

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Speaker 2: Oh the first you need Part one of World War Two. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I've heard of that.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what I was going to get to is

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Speaker 1: actually it has a lesser known sequel called World War

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Speaker 1: two Electric Boogaloo, which is like a straight to DVD

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Speaker 1: thing that not too many people have heard of.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that's kind of one of those niche hipster wars.

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Speaker 2: Yeah we should probably. Yeah, you hear about the Great

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Speaker 2: War all the time, but that that hipster stuff. You know,

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Speaker 2: you got to go to special niche war markets for

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Speaker 2: that kind of content exactly.

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Speaker 1: And that's what we are this week because today, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm just kind of curious when you figure out what

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Speaker 1: we're talking about. One of the people that we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about was a five foot three Finnish farmer

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Speaker 1: with a Mosin Nagant, which is an old bolt action

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Speaker 1: rifle in the Peri skis, who didn't want anyone to

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Speaker 1: invade and conquer his country. The other person we're going

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Speaker 1: to talk about was two inches shorter, still, a five

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Speaker 1: foot one Ukrainian gun manufacturer lady who also had a

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Speaker 1: Moson Neagaunt, who also didn't want anyone to invade and

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Speaker 1: conquer her country. Both of them, by strange accidents of history,

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Speaker 1: were working counter to Hitler's plans. Although the Ukrainian woman

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Speaker 1: was absolutely the more anti fascist of the two. The

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Speaker 1: finn Simohuha is sometimes credited as the most successful sniper

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Speaker 1: in history. The Ukrainian Ludmila Pavlchenko is universally considered the

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Speaker 1: most successful woman sniper in history. It's actually completely possible.

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Speaker 1: The numbers and all this stuff is really blurry. It's

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Speaker 1: only possible she has more confirmed sniper kills with a

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Speaker 1: rifle than Simo because his count also includes his prolific

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Speaker 1: submachine gunning. You ever heard of these folks.

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Speaker 2: I've heard of both of them. I'm more familiar with Simo.

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Speaker 2: Although I'm familiar with both of them, I'm excited to

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Speaker 2: learn more about them. It is true about Simo, though,

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Speaker 2: I do know this, Like when you said about his

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Speaker 2: submachine gun kills, the Finns during the Winter War and

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Speaker 2: the Continuation War were greatly armed with submachine guns, and

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Speaker 2: it was part of what educated the Soviet army, let's say,

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Speaker 2: on the value of those those types of weapons. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: No, it's interesting because it seems like the rifle they

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Speaker 1: used was a Russian design, and then the submachine gun

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Speaker 1: that everyone used was a finished design.

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Speaker 2: Or at least a derivative thereof. Yeah, so the finish

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Speaker 2: was the Saomi, and then you later see the PPSh

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Speaker 2: forty one and the forty three, and they the forty

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Speaker 2: one is definitely similar the drum magazine. In fact, in

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Speaker 2: the Soviet weapon is nearly identical to the finish one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, makes a lot of sense. So first we are

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Speaker 1: going to talk about Simo, which means we're going to

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Speaker 1: get to talk about my second favorite country to nerd

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Speaker 1: out about. The first one, as any listeners probably caught

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Speaker 1: on as Ireland. But the first country that I nerded

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Speaker 1: out about when I was a kid, it is Finland.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why. I mean, I do know why,

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Speaker 1: but it's it's a weird story.

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Speaker 3: Okay, what is it?

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Speaker 2: Okay?

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Speaker 1: When I was fourteen years old, I was at a

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Speaker 1: very large concert in Washington, DC, and I was crowdsurfing

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Speaker 1: to Blondie and I fell on top of a very

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Speaker 1: cute fourteen year old girl who was from Finland, and

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Speaker 1: we dated for many years, and I went and visitor

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Speaker 1: in Finland. See some of the more interesting parts of

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Speaker 1: that story I have to cut out because it would

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Speaker 1: show who her family is.

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Speaker 3: I'm just saying that is a meat cute.

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Speaker 2: That seems like such a sweet story actually, and that

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Speaker 2: and that gets you to Finland, which is a place

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Speaker 2: that I feel like so many people don't even know exists,

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Speaker 2: which is a weird statement, you know how that works? Like, no,

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Speaker 2: it is one of those countries that's kind of like

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Speaker 2: off the radar for lack of a better term, although

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Speaker 2: a little more so recently with everything going on with Russia.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, yeah, that's true. I guess the whole

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Speaker 1: NATO thing. Have you ever been to Finland?

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Speaker 2: Either of you? A number of times? Three, three or

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Speaker 2: four times?

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, Sophy never Well, it's nice. The sun either

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Speaker 1: doesn't go down or it doesn't come up, depending on

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Speaker 1: your timing, which I think for most people means the

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Speaker 1: sun never goes down, because I don't know a lot

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Speaker 1: of people who travel to Finland in the winter unless

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Speaker 1: they live in Finland. You ever gone in the winter.

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Speaker 1: I've only gone in the summer.

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Speaker 2: But the one time I went in the winter, it

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Speaker 2: was one of those incredibly mild winters, so I did

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Speaker 2: not experience like true Finnish winter. Yeah, so I got,

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Speaker 2: I got the real, the real, simple taste of it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So Finland.

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Speaker 1: I think you're absolutely right. Finland is a sort of

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Speaker 1: overlooked country. And I think what a lot of people

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Speaker 1: assume that they know about Finland is not true. Finland

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Speaker 1: is not the country that people might assume it is.

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Speaker 1: Finland has only been a country for less than half

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Speaker 1: the time that the US has been a country. And

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Speaker 1: it's not Scandinavian. That is the one big thing that

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Speaker 1: I think people misunderstand about Finland, or at least Americans

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Speaker 1: misunderstand about Finland. It's a far northern country. It is

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Speaker 1: not on the Scandinavian peninsula. It is I mean neither

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Speaker 1: Iceland or Denmark. But those are Scandinavian countries because they're

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Speaker 1: culturally Scandinavian. All of these like whenever I talk about

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Speaker 1: like what counts as what and like lines on a map,

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Speaker 1: it's all bullshit. And this whole story is about how

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Speaker 1: all that stuff's bullshit, but also how it matters. So

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Speaker 1: the rest of Scandinavia, they're all Germanic pagans like fore

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Speaker 1: and Odin and Lokian shit. Well, I mean not now,

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Speaker 1: but historically some of them still are. Finland is considered Nordic,

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Speaker 1: but it is not considered Scandinavian. It has always had

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Speaker 1: its own thing going on, like really had its own

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Speaker 1: thing going on. There are only a few other places

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Speaker 1: like Estonia and Hungary that are linguistically related to Finland

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Speaker 1: to any appreciable degree. And it's an odd man out

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Speaker 1: from Europe, just part of why it's so fucking cool, frankly,

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Speaker 1: although it is also part of why it has suffered

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Speaker 1: at the hands of other countries so many times. Finnish

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Speaker 1: paganism is a combination of polytheistic, like it has lots

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Speaker 1: of gods, but it's also animistic in that there are

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Speaker 1: spirits and everything in the world. Animals are considered sacred,

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Speaker 1: and each type of animal has its own like animal mother,

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Speaker 1: a sort of guardian spirit for all of that animal

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Speaker 1: that is distinct from the gods themselves. As best I

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Speaker 1: can tell, and I'm not actually an expert on Finnished paganism,

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Speaker 1: as best as I can tell, it's actually because there's

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Speaker 1: like multiple religions that are all kind of like trying

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Speaker 1: to share the same and like some of them are

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Speaker 1: more animistic, and some of them are more polytheistic. That's

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Speaker 1: my like, that's my best inference based on what I've read.

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Speaker 1: But I haven't had as many conversations with Finns about

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Speaker 1: their paganism.

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Speaker 2: It does.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of the finish afterlife? The pagan afterlife?

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Speaker 2: Actually, that's not something I'm familiar with. I'm familiar with

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Speaker 2: some of the similarities of Greater European paganism in Finnish paganism,

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Speaker 2: for example, like thor and Percle, which is one of

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Speaker 2: their curse words, which is the lightning god. That's interesting,

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Speaker 2: but not about the afterlife.

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Speaker 1: So no bed was the first finished word I learned

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Speaker 1: after kitos, which means thank you. The word for like

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Speaker 1: basically goddamn. It is the word for the old. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: one of their old gods. The afterlife is called Twanala,

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Speaker 1: which is and the reason it's my favorite is because

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Speaker 1: it's when you die, you're dead, like more or less.

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Speaker 1: Like it's not technically that when you die you go

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Speaker 1: to a dark underground and you sleep without dreaming forever.

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Speaker 1: So like when you die, you're dead, and there's like

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Speaker 1: some gods that look over it, and like, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's all the stories about people like going there and

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Speaker 1: getting stuck there and retrieving wisdom and all that shit.

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Speaker 1: But like, good bad, it doesn't matter. When you die,

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Speaker 1: you are fucking dead. I love it.

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Speaker 2: It's the strongest spiritual form of ambient.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Finnish is a Uralic language, which the only

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Speaker 1: real relations to it being Estonian and Hungarian. And the

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Speaker 1: way that a finn once told me, because I was like,

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Speaker 1: I went there and people were like, oh, Finish is

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Speaker 1: like nothing like any other language. And then I was like, wait,

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Speaker 1: I read a book it says it's like Hungarian, and

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Speaker 1: this old Finnish man was like, yeah, it was. Actually

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Speaker 1: my partner's dad was like, if you're on one mountaintop

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Speaker 1: and a Hungarian is on the other mountaintop like yelling,

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Speaker 1: I guess you could maybe think it was finish. That

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Speaker 1: was the way to describe the difference. Uralic language is

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Speaker 1: come from a language called proto Uralic, which was spoken

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Speaker 1: in the Ural Mountains, which is a mountain range that

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Speaker 1: runs through chunk of Russia. Basically because actually everyone moves

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Speaker 1: around all the time and nationalism is garbage, Finnish wasn't

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Speaker 1: a written language for a long ass time. In the

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Speaker 1: sixteenth century, folks were like, well, what if we want

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Speaker 1: to write the Bible? And they were like, oh shit,

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Speaker 1: I guess we need a written language, right, So it

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Speaker 1: started being written, but only in religious context. They didn't

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Speaker 1: really the modern written Finish was not developed until the

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century. Everyone was writing Swedish. It wasn't that people

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Speaker 1: weren't I mean, I'm sure a lot of people weren't literate,

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Speaker 1: but it was all ruled by Sweden at this point.

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Speaker 1: So the modern written Finish was developed in the nineteenth

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Speaker 1: century as part of this urge to create a Finnish

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Speaker 1: nationalism to escape centuries of Swedish and Russian colonization. I know,

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Speaker 1: I just talked shit on nationalism, but it means different

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Speaker 1: things in different contexts. It's a different thing when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about colonized people versus anyway whatever. People probably heard

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Speaker 1: me rant about that before. If not, yep, okay, great, And.

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Speaker 2: Still to this day in Finland the two national languages

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Speaker 2: are Finnish and Swedish. Yeah, those are the ones you're

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Speaker 2: supposed to learn in school. Although everyone knows.

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Speaker 1: English, yeah, and only six percent of people have finishes

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Speaker 1: I mean as Swedish as their like first language. It's

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Speaker 1: pretty much a leftover. There's like class shit in there too.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's all on the street signs though, So when

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Speaker 2: you're like, when you're wandering around, you'll see Finnish and

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Speaker 2: Swedish right next to each other, and Swedish is easier

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Speaker 2: as an English speaker to try and figure out, so

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Speaker 2: I can sort of decipher things through Swedish.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's actually that's a really good point I learned.

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Speaker 1: One of the things I learned, I've been a Finland

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Speaker 1: bunch of times, and one of the times, people will

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Speaker 1: come up to me and they would like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: going to get this all wrong. It's been a while

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Speaker 1: since I've been there, and they if people come up

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Speaker 1: to me and talk to me, And so for longest time,

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Speaker 1: I was saying enpoo sumalainen, which I thought meant I

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Speaker 1: don't speak Finnish. Eventually, and everyone as soon as I

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Speaker 1: said that, people would turn around and walk away. And

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Speaker 1: then eventually I learned I was saying, and I don't

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Speaker 1: speak Finnish people. But then I learned that if I

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Speaker 1: just said I don't speak Finnish in English, they would

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Speaker 1: talk to me, whereas if I didn't want to talk

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Speaker 1: to them, I would say I don't speak Finnish and

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Speaker 1: Finnish and then they would turn around and leave, especially

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Speaker 1: if I said I don't talk Finnish people anyway. Right,

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Speaker 1: So is a fucking cool language. I am not good

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Speaker 1: at speaking it, as we have discovered. I know how

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Speaker 1: to say beer and thank you and cuss. There are

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Speaker 1: no gendered pronouns in Finnish. The same word is used

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Speaker 1: for men and women. Lots of languages do this, actually,

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Speaker 1: probably the majority of languages in the world do this,

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Speaker 1: but almost no Western languages. The only exceptions that I've

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Speaker 1: ever been able to find of Western languages that have

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Speaker 1: no gendered pronouns are Finnish and Hungarian and Bosque and

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Speaker 1: except Have you ever heard about the secret gendered pronoun

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Speaker 1: in Finnish?

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Speaker 2: No?

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Speaker 1: Okay, One time a drunk Finn told me that there's

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Speaker 1: a secret, and I'm going to tell you the secret,

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Speaker 1: but can't tell anyone. There's one gendered pronoun in Finish.

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Speaker 1: It is rarely used, and it is used for the

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Speaker 1: gender my useless piece of shit husband. And whenever I

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Speaker 1: and I've checked this by talking to Finns about it,

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Speaker 1: and they always start off by saying no, there's no

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Speaker 1: gender pronouns and finish, and I'm like, well, what about

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Speaker 1: my useless piece of shit husband pronoun? And then, especially

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Speaker 1: if they're drunk, they'll admit it that there is this

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Speaker 1: secret gender pronoun. I can't remember what it is. And

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Speaker 1: I tried googling this and I did not come up

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Speaker 1: with success. And I wrote my finish friend, and I

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Speaker 1: think my finished friend is sick of me asking this

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Speaker 1: kind of question and didn't get back to me before

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Speaker 1: the time of recording.

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Speaker 2: So just be a couple little things like this. For example,

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Speaker 2: there's another word that's just one word that means sitting

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Speaker 2: at home drunk in your underwear. Yeah, it's just one word.

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Speaker 2: So you say that one word and everyone knows what

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Speaker 2: you're doing that night, for example. So there's like little

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Speaker 2: secret like that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, totally, spoon theory is written into the finish. This

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Speaker 1: is going to turn into a weird Margaret or whatever

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Speaker 1: spoon theory has written into it, though like, I don't

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Speaker 1: have the spoons to do it. I'm too tired. You

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Speaker 1: can say anyoxa, which again I might be completely butchering.

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Speaker 1: I learned this when I was sixteen years old and

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Speaker 1: have not checked since but this, you know, this idea

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Speaker 1: of like I don't have the energy, and you can

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Speaker 1: say it in a way that like, if you say

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Speaker 1: it in English, I don't have the energy, people are like, ah,

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Speaker 1: you lazy bum get up. At least in the nineties,

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Speaker 1: I think that culture is caught on to the fact

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Speaker 1: that sometimes people literally don't have the energy to do

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Speaker 1: things anyway. Fins historically were wild and scary to the Scandinavians.

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Speaker 1: Fins were seen as wizards by the Norse. If a

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Speaker 1: fin shows up in a story, you know that something

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Speaker 1: spooky is about to happen. But this is also a

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Speaker 1: conflation of the Fins with the Sami people, which is

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Speaker 1: an indigenous group in the northern in like Lopland. Right

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Speaker 1: that the Scandinavians weren't really good at making these distinctions,

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Speaker 1: and neither is anyone else, because the samiyear and oppressed

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Speaker 1: people who get complated with the Finns. Finnish also only

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Speaker 1: became one culture really recently, and it's still in many

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Speaker 1: ways not necessarily one culture. The indigenous Sami of the

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Speaker 1: north exist, and then even in southern Finland there are

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Speaker 1: multiple regions with their own ethnicities and languages. Even if

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Speaker 1: most of them are Finnic, right, like you have the Karelians,

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Speaker 1: the Ingredians, and the Ingreans were almost completely genocided by

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Speaker 1: Stalin and we're going to talk about that, and that

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Speaker 1: is going to be a really major factor in understanding

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Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about, which is clearly Finland

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Speaker 1: and World War Two. We've clearly painted at that. But

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Speaker 1: you know what isn't Finland in World War two? Any ideas?

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Speaker 2: But it's the sponsors that support this podcast.

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Speaker 1: That's right, all of them. Actually, I don't know what

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Speaker 1: Nokia is doing in Finland back then. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Kia might not have started till later. There actually could

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Speaker 1: be sponsors that were on World War Two. I just

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Speaker 1: did that annoying thing where it's like I knew I

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Speaker 1: pronounced it like fins and that's not true. I just

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Speaker 1: fucked it up. I should just say no Kia. Uh,

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Speaker 1: but that's not who we're sponsored by, unless it is.

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Speaker 2: I don't fucking know.

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Speaker 1: Here's some ads that let me feed my dog.

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Speaker 2: And we're back.

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Speaker 1: They were a tire manufact o Kia was, Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: think they did other shit too, But I remember one

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Speaker 1: time I was at this like squat and I was

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Speaker 1: like standing on this tire and I said no Ken.

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's funny. That's a phone, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: it's not a phone, it's a tire, and I was

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Speaker 1: like that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Like Mitsubishi's used to be used to make zeros, used

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Speaker 2: to make wet talk about that anymore. The zero aircraft

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Speaker 2: from the Japanese. Oh shit, yeah, they made they made

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Speaker 2: the zeros. If you if you email them about they

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Speaker 2: just don't reply.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot of World War two stuff that

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Speaker 1: people don't like to admit that they were making, including

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Speaker 1: if you ask Finland what it was doing during World

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Speaker 1: War Two, they don't like talking about it for some

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Speaker 1: weird reason.

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Speaker 2: But it's an interesting situation and they were. They were

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Speaker 2: in a tenuous place that put them in a really

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Speaker 2: interesting predicament.

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Speaker 1: That is the main subject of today. Yeah, so the

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Speaker 1: actual areas of what includes Finnish culture doesn't really line

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Speaker 1: up with a modern map. You've got folks speaking Miankili

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Speaker 1: in northeastern Swedish in Sweden, which is a Finnish dialect

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Speaker 1: sort of another Finnic language, and then in Karealia, which

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Speaker 1: is now mostly part of Russia, and then Ingria is

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Speaker 1: entirely in Russia, so lines on maps don't define culture

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Speaker 1: very successfully, right, But in the nineteenth century, Finland is

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Speaker 1: trying to become Finland, and so a poet whose name

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Speaker 1: I forgot to write down goes around and collects the Kalabala,

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Speaker 1: which is the Finnish great epic of all their myths

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Speaker 1: and shit, and it kind of turns it into a

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Speaker 1: single narrative. So in some weird ways, it's like, oh

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Speaker 1: the like all the traditional mythology is actually only from

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Speaker 1: the nineteenth century, but it draws on oral tradition before that.

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Speaker 1: These days, Finland is probably known for being happy, except

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Speaker 1: that it has a really high suicide rate, although lower

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Speaker 1: than the US is. And it's known for being a great,

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Speaker 1: great social democracy, except that the social democracy is falling

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Speaker 1: apart and fascists are gaining more and more power. It's

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Speaker 1: also known for producing very great black metal, no notes

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Speaker 1: this is true, and for being the place that gives

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Speaker 1: the world, gives the world the sauna, and for having

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Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty thousand lakes a lot of fun.

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Speaker 2: The times that I spent there, I came to actually

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Speaker 2: appreciate the suna. The sound is a really nice thing.

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Speaker 2: So there's a real something there. The going from the

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Speaker 2: cold water to the hot sana and back and forth

387
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Speaker 2: again really is invigorating. Whether it is just a chemical

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Speaker 2: inducing moment or really healthy for you, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: but it's nice and there's just a public element to it.

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Speaker 2: There's a fact there's a public sauna in Helsinki that

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Speaker 2: you can go to and like, for example, they don't

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Speaker 2: have hang ups like about like public nudity like we

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Speaker 2: would in the US, where people just all body types

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Speaker 2: and everyone's together in one space. Yeah, and nobody really

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Speaker 2: looks at each other and it's not but if it

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Speaker 2: was here it would be weird. So that's an example

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Speaker 2: of our culture does form things.

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Speaker 1: No totally, that is a yeah, yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I agree. So Finland started off through most of the

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Speaker 1: medieval era and stuff. It was like fairly tribal. The

401
00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,800
Speaker 1: southern folks started becoming more sedentary and agricultural, but were

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Speaker 1: still like theoretically divided into what gets called tribal as

403
00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,080
Speaker 1: a really blurry word that gets used a lot of

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Speaker 1: different ways. Whereas the northern Sami we're like we're good,

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Speaker 1: We're just gonna keep hunting, fishing, like I don't know

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Speaker 1: about agriculture shit. And then in the thirteenth century, the

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Speaker 1: Christians were like, well, we don't want cool, pluralistic religious systems,

408
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Speaker 1: so we're going to kill you all until you join

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Speaker 1: our blood drinking cult. So they had the Northern Crusades,

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Speaker 1: the lesser known Crusades, and they conquered Finland for Sweden,

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Speaker 1: and basically Finland became European at this point, and it

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Speaker 1: also became Catholic. Then the Protestant Reformation hit the North hard,

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Speaker 1: and Finland went Lutheran because the Swedish king went Lutheran

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Speaker 1: during the nineteen forties when most of our story takes place,

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Speaker 1: Like ninety six percent of Finns are Lutheran, which I

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Speaker 1: do not know a ton about. But it's not anti

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Speaker 1: science or anti abortion, so okay.

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Speaker 2: It tends to be more chill.

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Speaker 1: I think, Yeah, that seems to be the Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: like seems like in the like Catholic light kind of category.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. It's a high church with a lot of

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00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 2: pomp and circumstance, but a lot what seems like a

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Speaker 2: lot less awfulness in it. I mean not that there isn't,

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Speaker 2: but it's less right, and so yeah, I think we

425
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Speaker 2: forget because it was long ago. But like in Europe,

426
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Speaker 2: just like in so many other places in the world,

427
00:21:38,280 --> 00:21:41,639
Speaker 2: Christianity was spread by sword and gun, and Finland and

428
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Speaker 2: Norway and Sweden, all those places were crushed under that

429
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Speaker 2: similar type of the theocratical war.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, no, totally, and I mean and then even the

431
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 1: places that were each doing the conquering are then going out,

432
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: like like Sweden conquering them, but Sweden had just been

433
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 1: conquered by Christianity. And then I don't actually know who

434
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: conquered Sweden with Christianity. I assume it was the English,

435
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,600
Speaker 1: but I haven't. I don't know, but it's like it

436
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:09,000
Speaker 1: happened to them too. It's this gift that keeps on giving.

437
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:11,719
Speaker 2: What's super interesting about that. I don't know if when

438
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 2: you were there, if you went to Helsinki and saw

439
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 2: the history museum, But when you go through, at the

440
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 2: bottom floor is like the oldest elements, and then it

441
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: goes up and as you go up, different floor, as

442
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,000
Speaker 2: it goes to more modern and closer to a current time. Okay,

443
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:24,359
Speaker 2: when you get to the floor, When you get to

444
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,639
Speaker 2: the floor, it's like it says the Christian era, and

445
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 2: then when you go to the floor above it, it's interesting,

446
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 2: it's a word phrase that would never be used here.

447
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,359
Speaker 2: They refer to it in the museum as the post

448
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 2: Christian era. I thought that was something.

449
00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I I guess when I was younger, I

450
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:44,399
Speaker 1: probably I went to some like museums and shit. When

451
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:45,960
Speaker 1: I went there as an adult, I was a fucking

452
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,840
Speaker 1: crusty piece of shit, and I was like, I have

453
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,000
Speaker 1: more memories of being passed out drunk and a gutter

454
00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: outside a gay bar in Helsinki has some good conversations

455
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:00,080
Speaker 1: with folks. Well passed out drunk and a gutter. I

456
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,840
Speaker 1: know that passed out and talking don't whatever. Anyway, So

457
00:23:04,720 --> 00:23:08,160
Speaker 1: Finland kept having it rough. It was a poor outpost

458
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:12,080
Speaker 1: of an empire, and that tends to go rough. About

459
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,000
Speaker 1: a third of the population died two years in two

460
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,439
Speaker 1: years during a famine from sixteen ninety five to sixteen

461
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,520
Speaker 1: ninety seven. It was a really cold summer followed by

462
00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 1: a really hot winter that just fucked everything up, plus

463
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,240
Speaker 1: snowing and floods and the combo move of the little

464
00:23:28,280 --> 00:23:30,639
Speaker 1: ice age happening, and then a whole bunch of volcanoes

465
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,320
Speaker 1: had gone off all around the world, and it was

466
00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 1: bad and people were like eating each other and shit,

467
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: not the majority of people, but that was the thing

468
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:41,240
Speaker 1: that happened and it was really bad.

469
00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:41,960
Speaker 2: But don't worry.

470
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: It stayed really bad for Finland because Russia kept invading

471
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:49,440
Speaker 1: and conquering in the eighteenth century in two events known

472
00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 1: as the Greater Wrath and the Lesser Wrath.

473
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,320
Speaker 2: I had never heard of that. That's yeah, that's fun,

474
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 2: as though Lesser Wrath is any somehow not any worse.

475
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,320
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, I mean, it's kind of like how the

476
00:24:01,359 --> 00:24:03,040
Speaker 1: Great War it doesn't actually seem that bad when you

477
00:24:03,080 --> 00:24:04,480
Speaker 1: hold it up to World War Two, but it was

478
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:07,399
Speaker 1: absolutely an completely horrendous thing, you know.

479
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 2: Oh, I think you could argue in some ways, I

480
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,320
Speaker 2: mean obviously.

481
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:10,840
Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough.

482
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,640
Speaker 2: I don't know if those worse are good or better

483
00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:14,280
Speaker 2: in terms of war, but the Great War in some

484
00:24:14,320 --> 00:24:17,520
Speaker 2: ways was even more horrific in certain instances.

485
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, fair enough. So the Greater and Lesser Wraths

486
00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:24,360
Speaker 1: involved Russians going around with axes murdering hundreds of peasants

487
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:25,960
Speaker 1: that ago like they would just like walk up to

488
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 1: a village and kill everyone with axes with a plague

489
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:33,360
Speaker 1: happening at the same time. Then in eighteen oh nine

490
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,640
Speaker 1: Russia got Finland and held it the wraths. They didn't

491
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,800
Speaker 1: really successfully hold it, and Russia held Finland for more

492
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:43,320
Speaker 1: than one hundred years. During this time, you start getting

493
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: finished nationalism though, like let's be free idea, and a

494
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:50,040
Speaker 1: big part of the like leftist and labor thing for

495
00:24:50,119 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: decades was fighting against Russification. So the very idea of

496
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,359
Speaker 1: making a Finland was a worker's idea and a socialist idea,

497
00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 1: especially social democracy that was like always the most common

498
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 1: wave of like I'll talk sometimes about how overall socialism

499
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,879
Speaker 1: in the nineteenth century had like three sides. There was anarchism,

500
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 1: there was authoritarian communism, there's social democracy, and the dominant

501
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:20,640
Speaker 1: strain in Finland I think the entire time has been

502
00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:26,920
Speaker 1: social democracy. So in their own internal elections before Finland

503
00:25:26,920 --> 00:25:29,600
Speaker 1: becomes free, they become the first European power to give

504
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: women the right to vote. Literally, women have had the

505
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: right to vote in Finland since before there was a Finland.

506
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: And nineteen seventeen is a year that comes up a

507
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:45,359
Speaker 1: lot for some weird reason, was a good year for

508
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,159
Speaker 1: leaving Russia. Finland was torn between the Social Democrats and

509
00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: right wing parties as Communists took control of Russia. The

510
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:55,919
Speaker 1: right wing of Finland recently. Previously, the right wing of

511
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:59,240
Speaker 1: Finland was the like we love Russia part right, but

512
00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: then when the Communie to control of the Soviet Union,

513
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,680
Speaker 1: they were like, we're not so sure about Russia anymore. Actually,

514
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: we want to be free too, So they like show

515
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,359
Speaker 1: up in the Social Democrats like, wait, you want to

516
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: be free too, We actually, like finally fucking agree that

517
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,400
Speaker 1: we want to be Finland, and they were like, yeah,

518
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,760
Speaker 1: we totally want to be Finland totally. This is an

519
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,280
Speaker 1: employ to join the German Empire. I swear we're not

520
00:26:18,320 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: just looking for a different boot to lick. And they

521
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: were like, sweet, I don't know why you brought that

522
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: up about the German Empire. It seems completely unrelated, but sure,

523
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:30,720
Speaker 1: let's be free. So Finland declared it's independence. And this

524
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:33,399
Speaker 1: was before the Bolsheviks were like we want all power forever,

525
00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:37,320
Speaker 1: fuck everyone, right, or kind of before they had conquered

526
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 1: all power. So Lenin was like, chill, you can go

527
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: your own way. It's cool. It helped I think this

528
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: is my inference a really large chunk of the Soviet

529
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 1: forces in the northwestern Russia where the sailors who skewed

530
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,680
Speaker 1: heavily anarchist, and anarchists tend to be a little bit less,

531
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: making everyone be Bolsheviks kind of one of their things.

532
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,919
Speaker 1: So you have a newly through free Finland and they're like, okay,

533
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 1: are we a socialist workers republic in a social democratic

534
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,120
Speaker 1: form or are we a puppet state of the German monarchy?

535
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 1: And they had a war about it. The Reds were

536
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:20,440
Speaker 1: mostly social Democrats and only a minority of them wanted

537
00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 1: to join the Bolshevik thing going on next door. They

538
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,360
Speaker 1: wanted no dictatorship of the proletariat. They only wanted democracy.

539
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: They kind of they specifically were like, basically, we want

540
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,720
Speaker 1: like a France or USA without private property, like with

541
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: where where workers own the means of production instead of

542
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 1: like one dude owns everything.

543
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: You know, Yeah, you could. You can still see bullet

544
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,399
Speaker 2: holes in buildings in Helsinki from the Reds in the

545
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:45,160
Speaker 2: White Civil War.

546
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe it.

547
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:49,280
Speaker 2: And it's another thing that I thought was super interesting

548
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 2: was in Helsinki is that while it's no longer necessarily

549
00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,520
Speaker 2: that same level of direct conflict the areas that were

550
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 2: quote white in the areas that were quite red in

551
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,320
Speaker 2: terms of like in terms of possession of the city

552
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:04,960
Speaker 2: still have a different vibe when you're in them even now.

553
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 2: That makes architecturally, yeah, yeah, like restaurants, even down to basics,

554
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,359
Speaker 2: like just the general let's put it this way. Some

555
00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,920
Speaker 2: places are just way more bohemian feeling and they still

556
00:28:14,960 --> 00:28:17,800
Speaker 2: feel that way. Yeah, and it's leftovers that resonate from

557
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,440
Speaker 2: like that long ago. It's really interesting.

558
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that that makes all of sense to me.

559
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:25,239
Speaker 1: This was a nasty civil war and the way it

560
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: used to get explained to me was like, well, some

561
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 1: Finns were capitalists and some were Soviets, and they had

562
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,520
Speaker 1: a war, and the capitalist one. This is not a

563
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,920
Speaker 1: very good way of understanding the civil war. It was Bolsheviks. Sorry,

564
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: it was not Bolsheviks as social democrats. And then the

565
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:45,600
Speaker 1: capitalists who won militarily were heavily supported by Germany. Basically,

566
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: Germany conquered Finland at the behest of the upper classes

567
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: of Finland. Then the whites were like, hey, Germany, do

568
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: you want to help us get rid of this red problem?

569
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:57,000
Speaker 1: And they're like, yeah, as long as our prince gets

570
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 1: to be whatever anyway. So the Reds were volunteered, the

571
00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 1: Whites were conscripts. The Reds included thousands of women fighting

572
00:29:04,880 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: in the army the Soviets. The Soviets off to the side,

573
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,760
Speaker 1: were split. I actually had just assumed that they basically

574
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: were the main Red Army in supporting the Red Army.

575
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,360
Speaker 1: They mostly kind of stayed out of it. Some supported

576
00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,680
Speaker 1: the Reds, some worked against the Reds and effectively sided

577
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,800
Speaker 1: with the Whites. The Soviet soldier station in Finland who

578
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: sided with the Reds were buying large these anarchists two

579
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,920
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty anarchists sailors in the Battle of RUSSOVESI was,

580
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,440
Speaker 1: I don't know, the main largest force of Soviet forces

581
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:39,000
Speaker 1: I found fighting in the Civil War. I'm sure there's others.

582
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: And this is while the anarchists were still sometimes part

583
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,920
Speaker 1: of the Red Army. That changes, and we'll talk about

584
00:29:45,920 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 1: it in the next week's episodes. I don't know if

585
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:50,600
Speaker 1: anyone on the show has picked up that I'm not

586
00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,520
Speaker 1: really excited about Bolshevism, that they tend to kill everyone

587
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:55,920
Speaker 1: that they disagree with. But if you're ever in the

588
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 1: middle of a revolution and you're like man, I wish it.

589
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,200
Speaker 1: I hope someone betrayed, Like I hope someone uses this

590
00:30:02,240 --> 00:30:05,360
Speaker 1: as an opportunity to just like kill everyone who disagrees

591
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: with them. Well, then you should befriend the Bolsheviks, the

592
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:12,880
Speaker 1: group that won the Civil War. You would think it

593
00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 1: would be the Finns because they were both sides of

594
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 1: the fight. But it was not the Finns who won

595
00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,800
Speaker 1: the Civil War. It was the Germans. The conquering Whites

596
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: rounded up the Reds and their families and just fucking

597
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:28,040
Speaker 1: murdered them or just left them to starve. More than

598
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:30,320
Speaker 1: ten thousand Red prisoners were left to starve to death

599
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: in prison camps, and the White Field commanders got shot

600
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:38,600
Speaker 1: the shoot on the spot declaration, which was fairly literal,

601
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:42,680
Speaker 1: and it told them to execute anyone they wanted. Yeah.

602
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,360
Speaker 1: I had this moment where I didn't really know about

603
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 1: this right when I was when I you know, went

604
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: to Finland and until like some of the more recent times,

605
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: I went to this anarchist festival called Most of Pispola,

606
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: and Pistola is a working class suburb of Tampaday, and

607
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: at one night I was like walking home from the

608
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: party at two in the morning and like the sun's

609
00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: still on the horizon because it's fucking Finland and it's

610
00:31:04,120 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 1: cool as shit. And there's this big hill that runs

611
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 1: to the middle of town and I walk up to

612
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: the top of it by myself, and there's just this

613
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: big monument and it's just a monument to the murdered Reds,

614
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:18,880
Speaker 1: and I just had this, like, I don't know, introspective

615
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:23,200
Speaker 1: moment thinking about that war and thinking about how, as

616
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: likely as not, I would have been fucking one of

617
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 1: those dead people.

618
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, it makes the things like that make

619
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 2: this palpable, don't it doesn't It It's like when you

620
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 2: see it and you, like I said, you can see

621
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:36,440
Speaker 2: the bullet hole and the glass of the building, or

622
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,240
Speaker 2: the vibe of just different neighborhoods in the city that

623
00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: is still still resonate from one hundred years ago, really,

624
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,440
Speaker 2: but it still has that effect indelible fingerprint on the

625
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 2: on the society in it. Yeah, and I don't I

626
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,240
Speaker 2: don't know, like you mentioned earlier, like how things are

627
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 2: sometimes devolving there in terms of authoritarianism, and it's it

628
00:31:56,640 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: doesn't really go away. It just it just gets quiet

629
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 2: for a little while and then it comes.

630
00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 1: Back totally and The only positive thing is so, does

631
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: you know all the social Democrats have just been murdered

632
00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:08,120
Speaker 1: and all their families have got murdered, right, And it

633
00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: actually doesn't even take a generation before social democracy is

634
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 1: a major force in Finland again, you know. Yeah, the

635
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: Whites win, and since they were boot liquor fox didn't

636
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: actually believe in a free Finland, they elected the parliament

637
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,960
Speaker 1: elected a German prince as the King of Finland. Fortunately,

638
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: Germany then immediately lost World War One and the German

639
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: Empire collapsed. Finland became a republic and kind of in

640
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 1: the weird way, like the moderates won the war, like

641
00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 1: the side that wasn't one of the sides won the

642
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: war because the Whites and the Reds kind of both

643
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: lost bootlocking the Germans and the atrocities that the Whites

644
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 1: had committed lost the Whites a lot of popular support,

645
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 1: and the Reds had lost all their popular support because

646
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: they were dead or in exile. And so you get

647
00:32:56,920 --> 00:32:59,800
Speaker 1: the moderates, the center and the center left, who more

648
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: less have traded Finland off between each other ever since.

649
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:09,280
Speaker 1: So Finland messy place, beautiful place, lots of lakes between

650
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: the wars, World War one and World War Two. In

651
00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: case anyone forgot what the two wars were, they're numerically named.

652
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,600
Speaker 1: It's easier to remember which one came first, which one

653
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: came second. Wouldn't it be awful if they were a

654
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,360
Speaker 1: countdown instead, like we'd started off with like World War

655
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:23,400
Speaker 1: nine or something.

656
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,040
Speaker 2: You know, well, then you know how many are left.

657
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: That's true, which is kind of nice until you get

658
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 2: to zero, and then you just don't know what's going

659
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:30,880
Speaker 2: to happen.

660
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: I believe Fenris Fenrier is going to eat the sun.

661
00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 2: And then oh yes.

662
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 1: So between the two wars, two things of importance to

663
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:46,320
Speaker 1: our story happened. First, Finland actually managed a kind of reconciliation.

664
00:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 1: I first, when I first started reading about Simo, I

665
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,240
Speaker 1: was like, I thought this reconciliation thing was a lie,

666
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,840
Speaker 1: and so I kept reading more and more about it,

667
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: and I actually don't think it's a lie. I think

668
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: it's true. By nineteen thirty seven, the centrist and often

669
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: center right Agrarians and then the center left Social Democrats

670
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 1: were running the government in coalition. The far right is

671
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:10,080
Speaker 1: on the decline, as is authoritarianism on both sides of

672
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: the spectrum. The far right parties aren't officially banned, even

673
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:15,520
Speaker 1: though they just try to stage a coup in like

674
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,600
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty two or something like that. But the Communist Party,

675
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:23,560
Speaker 1: the Bolshevik Control Party, is officially banned, and so the

676
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: Center is holding stuff. But the other thing that happened

677
00:34:30,280 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 1: that I think is really important to understand for this story,

678
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,080
Speaker 1: so Finnish culture and language extends beyond the borders of

679
00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 1: what managed to carve itself out of Finland. You've got

680
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 1: some Finns in northeast Sweden, and more importantly, you've got

681
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 1: all these Fins over in Russia, and not just like

682
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:46,040
Speaker 1: Finns who showed up there, but like Finns who've been

683
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,640
Speaker 1: there for ever or at least hundreds of years, right,

684
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,080
Speaker 1: the Angrian Finns who are mostly Lutheran, and I couldn't

685
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:57,120
Speaker 1: tell you their average politics. And also in Russia you

686
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: do have all of these Reds who were fleeing the

687
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: White terr and most of these Reds that start off

688
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 1: actually fairly moderate. There are social Democrats who want to

689
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,960
Speaker 1: use democratic state focused means to a chief workers control,

690
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:11,239
Speaker 1: but they'd just been fucking massacred by the landowners, and

691
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,440
Speaker 1: so for a lot of them Bolshevik had a sudden

692
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:14,240
Speaker 1: and new appeal.

693
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:14,840
Speaker 2: You know.

694
00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: They were like, oh, maybe this thing that won and

695
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,799
Speaker 1: has a bunch of power sounds good to us, Right,

696
00:35:21,239 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 1: So a lot of the Reds went over and became Bolsheviks.

697
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:27,759
Speaker 1: But there's a problem with Bolshevism, a problem made worse

698
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 1: by repeat villain of the pod, the Man of Steel himself,

699
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:35,680
Speaker 1: Joseph fucking Stalin. So if he was the first behind

700
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: the bastards about Stalin, No, but it was like the

701
00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:43,279
Speaker 1: one of the first five. Okay, it's the maybe the

702
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,080
Speaker 1: furthest back I ever listened to was the like Stalin's

703
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 1: drinking party thing.

704
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,799
Speaker 3: Hey, for Solomon's like a like a like a like

705
00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,759
Speaker 3: what you would equival it to, like the worst frack

706
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: guy you ever met.

707
00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, So he was like, what if what if I

708
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: just kill all the fins and then destroy their culture?

709
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: And so he did.

710
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's the FRACKI equivalent to, Eh, like, oh,

711
00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 3: what if we're just like go throw toilet paper at

712
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:14,080
Speaker 3: their house?

713
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:16,720
Speaker 1: Yeah?

714
00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. His sociopathy seemed to be his hobby, did it not?

715
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:22,560
Speaker 2: In a recurring theme?

716
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much, And he's good at coming up with

717
00:36:26,000 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 1: excuses for it. That he comes up with I think later,

718
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,360
Speaker 1: so he decides to kill all the Fins and destroy

719
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,040
Speaker 1: their culture, including the Finnish communist in exile, the like

720
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,960
Speaker 1: loyal Bolsheviks. I suspect that no ideology has killed more

721
00:36:37,960 --> 00:36:43,839
Speaker 1: Communists than authoritary communism. Specifically, I was just there's gonna

722
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: be so many times in this note whatever I think

723
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 1: people have caught on my position on all of this.

724
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,120
Speaker 1: Stalin was like, we've got to destroy Finnish culture, language traditions.

725
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 1: And while we're at at people the Ingri and Finns

726
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: who lived in the area that's now Saint Petersburg, since

727
00:36:57,719 --> 00:36:59,840
Speaker 1: they've lived there since before there was a Saint Petersburg,

728
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,200
Speaker 1: they're like, I want to say, seventeenth century migrants to

729
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 1: that area, and then Saint Petersburg came like the next

730
00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,440
Speaker 1: century or some shit. In nineteen twenty six, there's one

731
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 1: hundred and fifteen thousand of these Angryan Fins living in

732
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:13,920
Speaker 1: this area where they have lived for hundreds of years.

733
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: They have their own Finnic language, in their own culture.

734
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:21,160
Speaker 1: Nine years later, there's only seven thousand of them left.

735
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: So this is a pretty successful genocide. This genocide was

736
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: centrally managed and considered with the specific goal of assassinating

737
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:37,520
Speaker 1: the male population and destroying them utterly. Those who weren't

738
00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: killed were usually deported since Stalin was like, well, we

739
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: need this buffer zone. Russia's obsessed with these buffer zones,

740
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,200
Speaker 1: and they were like, we need this buffer zone between

741
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 1: US and Finland where there's no Fins because they might

742
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:54,000
Speaker 1: be loyal to Finland, right, and so he sent folks

743
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,360
Speaker 1: to Siberia Kazakistan. If he didn't just fucking kill them,

744
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: Settlers from elsewhere in Russia took their homes and farms

745
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,360
Speaker 1: and shit. All the Lutheran churches and the Finnish language schools, radio,

746
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:09,480
Speaker 1: and newspapers were all shut down. Today, the population of

747
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: Angrian Finns is about twenty five thousand. There are only

748
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:19,000
Speaker 1: seventy living speakers of the Angrian language. Left and the

749
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:23,000
Speaker 1: communist exiles. I think that they had started off helping

750
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: all of this happen, right, to like prove that they're

751
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,640
Speaker 1: good and loyal. They got purged after they helped purge

752
00:38:29,719 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 1: the other Fins.

753
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 2: Weirdly, it doesn't seem like there's an authoritarian movement or

754
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,000
Speaker 2: government in this world that doesn't result in genocide. It

755
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 2: doesn't matter if it's colonial Spain invading what is now

756
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 2: New Mexico, or Russia with Finland, it always is the

757
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:48,239
Speaker 2: same thing over and over again. Yeah, whether it's killing

758
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,399
Speaker 2: people or cutting their hands off or their feet off,

759
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 2: or taking away their language or putting them in camps,

760
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 2: it's the same thing. It doesn't matter if it's called

761
00:38:55,960 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 2: Stalinism or communism or Nazism or whatever. Always results in

762
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:01,799
Speaker 2: the same shit.

763
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,359
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I don't.

764
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:07,200
Speaker 3: I don't think I really absorbed. I like when when

765
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 3: you're I have the script, when you were saying seventy

766
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,879
Speaker 3: seven zero living speakers left of that of language, Yeah,

767
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,160
Speaker 3: you said, yeah, that is that is that is so sad.

768
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: I know, and most of them are older. And that

769
00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:26,759
Speaker 1: mean you know that happens to so many languages. But

770
00:39:26,800 --> 00:39:29,200
Speaker 1: it's just like it's it happens to those languages because

771
00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: of combinations of colonization and genocide, and like, yeah, but

772
00:39:35,239 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: you know we have two lingo Is that one of

773
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,080
Speaker 1: our sponsors?

774
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 3: No, Robert and I got an ad who was it

775
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 3: for it? Well, we did do it. We just did

776
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 3: do an ad on by the bastards for some language thing.

777
00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:50,840
Speaker 1: It might have been Rosetta Stone.

778
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:52,680
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it was Rosetta Stone.

779
00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:55,680
Speaker 2: So yeah, Rosetta s don't can put out a series

780
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 2: of saving the languages of genocide.

781
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,359
Speaker 1: Yeah cool?

782
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:00,920
Speaker 2: Hello.

783
00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, also Rosetta Stone paycral for that idea.

784
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:11,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's actually that could actually sell. Yeah they should. Yeah,

785
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,160
Speaker 2: I trademarking that you should.

786
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,480
Speaker 3: I think you should be free car last to go

787
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:18,759
Speaker 3: to the trademark.

788
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,600
Speaker 1: We'll be back after that. Yeah, all right.

789
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,200
Speaker 2: A word from our sponsor.

790
00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:28,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, our only sponsor, mosen Nagaunt. If you want a

791
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:31,280
Speaker 1: bolt action rifle that you can think is more useful

792
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: in the modern world than actually is that is we

793
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: probably shouldn't be sponsored by firearms. Never mind, We'll just

794
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: use whatever ads come up randomly. Here you go, and

795
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: we're back. So you know, it's nineteen thirty nine. War

796
00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 1: is brewing. Hitler is in power. He's looking for allies.

797
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,279
Speaker 1: Who does he find. No, not the Fins. That's going

798
00:40:56,320 --> 00:41:04,080
Speaker 1: to come later. Spoiler alert. Joseph fucking Stalin. We have

799
00:41:04,160 --> 00:41:07,440
Speaker 1: talked about the Molotov ribbon Trump packed before on this podcast.

800
00:41:07,480 --> 00:41:09,880
Speaker 1: You can cross it off your BINGO cards now because

801
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:13,160
Speaker 1: we're talking about it now. It is the Stalin and

802
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,160
Speaker 1: Hitler are allies for a while packed. It was signed

803
00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,919
Speaker 1: on August twenty third, nineteen thirty nine, between Ribin Trump,

804
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,040
Speaker 1: who was a Nazi, and Molotov, the Soviet foreign minister.

805
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,640
Speaker 1: To the public eye, this was a non aggression pact,

806
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,960
Speaker 1: but secretly it was more than that. It was an

807
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: agreement of how the two powers were going to carve

808
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,479
Speaker 1: up Eastern Europe, like who gets what when they start

809
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: conquering shit. This secret element wasn't revealed until after the war.

810
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: Hitler's big weakness. As far as I understand, I'm not

811
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,640
Speaker 1: a huge World War two understander in the way that

812
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 1: there are many people who that is their life's blood.

813
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:53,120
Speaker 1: Hiller didn't have oil and Russia had oil. Sort did

814
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: a remania. I think it was his ally, but he

815
00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:58,480
Speaker 1: wanted more fucking oil, right. Russia had sent so much

816
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: material assistance to Hitler's war machine, just running trains across

817
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:04,000
Speaker 1: the whole their massive country to make sure Hitler at

818
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:07,719
Speaker 1: everything he needed to start World War two. A week later,

819
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,439
Speaker 1: Hitler invaded Poland. Two weeks after that, Russia was like, sick,

820
00:42:13,560 --> 00:42:17,560
Speaker 1: me too, and they also invaded Poland and the Polish defenses,

821
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 1: who initially thought the Bolsheviks were gonna come and help them.

822
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:23,080
Speaker 1: We're like, hooray, the Soviets are here. We're like, wait,

823
00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:25,320
Speaker 1: why are you shooting at us? We're not the Nazis.

824
00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 1: And then the Soviet Union invaded Poland and conquered it

825
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,720
Speaker 1: alongside their allies Hitler and held joint military parades and shit.

826
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:39,239
Speaker 1: This does not undermine the bravery of the people in

827
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:41,760
Speaker 1: the Red Army, who later are the people who bled

828
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: the most to destroy Nazism. But it is a thing

829
00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:50,360
Speaker 1: that's worth fucking understanding about their leader. So Stalin stopped

830
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:54,240
Speaker 1: putting anti fascism into the party jargon. The new enemy

831
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 1: was Western Powers, as like France and England, and in

832
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 1: their secret pact they decided something that's gonna have a

833
00:43:03,719 --> 00:43:08,719
Speaker 1: lot of importance to today's story. They said, Russia, you

834
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: can have Finland as well as Estonia and Latvia and Lithuania.

835
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:18,239
Speaker 1: But those aren't as involved in the story. And even

836
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: before the secret part of it, it was known just that

837
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,960
Speaker 1: the Stalin was siding with the fucking Nazis. Pushed a

838
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: lot of the Finnish communists over to the social democrat

839
00:43:26,560 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: side of things. Already there's not a ton of Bolsheviks

840
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:35,360
Speaker 1: or like communists like Communist party communists in Finland. But

841
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 1: seeing all this happened, like the Finns are like, oh,

842
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: actually maybe this like powermonger is not our friend. So

843
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:46,920
Speaker 1: on October fifth, only a couple weeks after they'd invaded Poland,

844
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 1: the USSR was like, hey, Finland, can we like, can

845
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: we have party you just we want to set up

846
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,360
Speaker 1: some military bases all your neighbors. Let us do it,

847
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: just give us control of huge trunks of Finland. And

848
00:44:01,680 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: even the Finnish communists were like, oh, this is Russia

849
00:44:05,160 --> 00:44:08,040
Speaker 1: doing an imperialism. This is the part that I like,

850
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: I wasn't certain about this whole, like the communists actually

851
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:12,959
Speaker 1: were against Russia thing, because I like, it's not usually

852
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:14,960
Speaker 1: the way things go. But I read this like thirty

853
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 1: fucking page academic paper about communism in Finland during this era,

854
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,359
Speaker 1: because that's whatever. I can't complain. I do it for work.

855
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: It is the best job anyone has ever had in

856
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 1: the history of this world. Thank you, Sophie. So the

857
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:32,359
Speaker 1: communists are like, this is Russia doing an imperialism. There

858
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 1: was a few tankies, there's a few holdouts who are like, actually,

859
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: the Finnish government, including the Social Democrats are the same

860
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:40,680
Speaker 1: as the fascists, since they won't just turn Finland over

861
00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: to Stalin, who is allied with the fascists. But don't

862
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: pay attention to that part. Finland said no to the

863
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:52,160
Speaker 1: Russians and so and then they started mobilizing for war

864
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: because they were like, oh, fuck, this is going to

865
00:44:55,200 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 1: go really bad. We just told Stalin no, that's like

866
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: not a he's like more like a yes man guy,

867
00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:01,960
Speaker 1: you know.

868
00:45:02,280 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 2: Yeah. Stalin's not known for his his tolerance of no.

869
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 2: He's not really into consent, never was.

870
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: No, he's a free thinker. He's a strong whatever, fucking

871
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,800
Speaker 1: piece of shit. So Finns. So the Fins are like,

872
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:19,640
Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna mobilize for war. And the first

873
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: thing they do, just whatever, they arrest a couple hundred

874
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:28,040
Speaker 1: Communist leaders, finished communist leaders on suspicion they'd sided with Russia,

875
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:32,840
Speaker 1: but even the police reported quote, the will to defend

876
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,680
Speaker 1: the country, or at least loyalty towards the government has

877
00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: gained a footing even among the communists. And so then

878
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,080
Speaker 1: they let them all go except like one guy. I

879
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:43,680
Speaker 1: don't know, there's like probably one guy who was like,

880
00:45:43,719 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 1: fuck you, I love Stalin. You know, I don't know.

881
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: Even a bunch of Communist officers who had received training

882
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,040
Speaker 1: in the USSR were like, no, we are fucking defending Finland.

883
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:57,239
Speaker 1: Fuck the USSR. They just purged all my friends. And

884
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: I really didn't expect this part. I really thought that

885
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:04,360
Speaker 1: the Reds of Finland were like in a roll and

886
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: help the Soviets in the coming war. They didn't. They

887
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:16,719
Speaker 1: were really principal. Russia was like, all right, give us

888
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:21,920
Speaker 1: some Finland. And then it was like what the fuck. No, And.

889
00:46:24,920 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 3: I love when you summarized history in like such a

890
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 3: casual way. They're like they're like, nah, nah, we're doing that.

891
00:46:33,320 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: Noah, bro' I'm not into that. How about you keep

892
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:37,680
Speaker 2: your Russian hands off of my Finland.

893
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. The first time I ever like had someone

894
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,120
Speaker 1: get mad at me about this. I used to do this.

895
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 1: I did this tour talking about anarchism and fiction and

896
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:49,040
Speaker 1: I had ended up giving a conversation about Louise Michelle,

897
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: who we've covered on this and just part of the

898
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: Paris Commune. And I referred to the Paris Commune like

899
00:46:53,520 --> 00:46:56,200
Speaker 1: really quickly and haphazardly, where I was like, and the

900
00:46:56,200 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: government was out of town, so people were like, we're

901
00:46:58,440 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 1: gonna have a party, but then they weren't sure it

902
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: was a be a communist party or socialist party, and

903
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:03,759
Speaker 1: then they kind of got into some arguments about it,

904
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 1: and then the Germans invaded, and someone was like, really

905
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,160
Speaker 1: mad that that was the way I summed up the

906
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:12,040
Speaker 1: Paaris Commune. Someone listening is really mad about how I

907
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: just summed up the start of the Winter War, And

908
00:47:15,360 --> 00:47:16,200
Speaker 1: I don't it's cool.

909
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:18,400
Speaker 3: What's cool as you're no longer on Twitter?

910
00:47:19,000 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, the Winter's gone.

911
00:47:22,840 --> 00:47:25,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's x dot com. Now everyone knows that.

912
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:27,640
Speaker 1: It's just you know, it sounds like something you can't

913
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 1: go to in a library.

914
00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 2: No, you just now, you just now, you just z

915
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 2: your authoritarian dreams. Oh my god, you to become Z.

916
00:47:34,960 --> 00:47:36,800
Speaker 1: Yes, Sophie, I think it's a Yeah.

917
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 3: Margaret, that was such a good joke and I just

918
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 3: want to compliment you on it. Thank you so.

919
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:48,200
Speaker 1: Much, thank you. I appreciate it. So have you ever

920
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: thought about the comparisons between the Winter War and the

921
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: modern Ukrainian War?

922
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:57,239
Speaker 2: Actually, I have to admit I have. Yes, there's there's

923
00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:57,920
Speaker 2: a lot going on.

924
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: Huh, they're so fucking but what I've got. If I'm

925
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: missing anything, please let me know if you want to

926
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 1: expound upon any of it. What I've got is that

927
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,520
Speaker 1: Russia's main justification for this war was your border is

928
00:48:09,560 --> 00:48:12,120
Speaker 1: too close to our cities, and we don't want the

929
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: West to come attack us. And then a little bit

930
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: of a but come on, we used to that part

931
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:20,560
Speaker 1: used to belong to us anyway, And then also a

932
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:24,200
Speaker 1: bunch of complete nonsense about how you're actually a fascist country,

933
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,879
Speaker 1: so we should have to denazify you. And in this case,

934
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:30,759
Speaker 1: in the Winter War, this was based on how seven

935
00:48:30,840 --> 00:48:32,960
Speaker 1: years earlier some far right people tried to stage a

936
00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:36,040
Speaker 1: coup and they lost, and then they stopped being particularly

937
00:48:36,080 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: politically relevant. God, that's even the same fuck number, almost

938
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: the same number of years as the Madden Euromaidan, whatever

939
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,680
Speaker 1: the protests in Ukraine. I'm not as good at modern

940
00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: history current events. Is that what you call modern history

941
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:55,560
Speaker 1: current events? I'm not as good at current events. Also,

942
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:57,800
Speaker 1: the people who are going to take up arms to

943
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: defend Finland include people from every part of the political spectrum,

944
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 1: the far right, the far left, the center right, the

945
00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,160
Speaker 1: center left and the center all about to pick up

946
00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,040
Speaker 1: guns and fight alongside of each other, which is like

947
00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: fucking Ukraine also Russia. Things is going to be easy,

948
00:49:13,840 --> 00:49:17,400
Speaker 1: and then they meet an intensely fierce defense and their

949
00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 1: first attack is going to be utterly defeated.

950
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:22,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. Like like when you put that into modern you

951
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 2: have essentially you have Zelensky commanding Azov Battalion. How bizarre

952
00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:31,479
Speaker 2: is that fighting against the Wagner Group? Yeah, from Russia? Right, Yeah,

953
00:49:31,520 --> 00:49:35,399
Speaker 2: what a mix of political ideologies, all sorts of things

954
00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 2: mixed together for Ukrainian defense. It's it isn't that different,

955
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:40,840
Speaker 2: You're right, it's spot on.

956
00:49:41,239 --> 00:49:41,399
Speaker 3: Yeah.

957
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: And it's like I did an interview with a friend

958
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,320
Speaker 1: who was delivering an aid and to the front lines

959
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: in Ukraine, and you know, and they're queer, and they

960
00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 1: were talking to a queer army commander and they were

961
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,160
Speaker 1: like they came out to the to the guy and

962
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: we're like, oh good, I usually have to hide who

963
00:49:56,760 --> 00:49:59,360
Speaker 1: I am. And they're like, that's great. When you deliver

964
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,319
Speaker 1: to the next place, don't tell them this. They're bad,

965
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, Like it's fucking weird.

966
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:08,520
Speaker 2: But at the same time, and I'm not giving them

967
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 2: any difference because that ideology doesn't was deserve any difference. Yeah,

968
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 2: but at the same time, they've been crack troops to

969
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:17,359
Speaker 2: defending eastern Ukraine, which is a weird problem to think about.

970
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:22,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, it Yeah, And so the comparisons to this

971
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:26,040
Speaker 1: because one of the things I really like about today's

972
00:50:26,080 --> 00:50:30,760
Speaker 1: story is that it's fucking messy. It is not politically simple,

973
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:32,799
Speaker 1: and the reason I love context anyway, that's like the

974
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: fucking fun of this. But like, and also I think

975
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: the thing that you can get other than just listening

976
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: to another podcast bestimo or something, right, but I think

977
00:50:42,719 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: you have to like get a sense of all this

978
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 1: stuff in order to like figure out who these people

979
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 1: were and why they were fighting, and like what it

980
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,040
Speaker 1: meant to different people to be fighting at different times

981
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 1: in different ways. So Russia is gearing up for war

982
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: after Finland says no to their demands, and then one

983
00:50:58,800 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 1: of the problems that they run into as they have

984
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,080
Speaker 1: to be like, wait, hold on, stop purging all the Fins.

985
00:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 1: We need enough Finns who are loyal to us to

986
00:51:06,719 --> 00:51:09,200
Speaker 1: shore up some political legitimacy for when we try to

987
00:51:09,239 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 1: take over Finland. So then they like stop purging the

988
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:18,200
Speaker 1: rest of the Fins, and then there's this whole thing

989
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:22,080
Speaker 1: with a false flag attack that isn't as interesting to me. Basically,

990
00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: Russia shells itself and it's like the Fins did it,

991
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,280
Speaker 1: and then attacks. November thirtieth, nineteen thirty nine, the USSR

992
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: attacks Finland and their plan is to set up a

993
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:37,280
Speaker 1: puppet government, and they do right. Whenever they're conquering places,

994
00:51:37,280 --> 00:51:39,200
Speaker 1: they're like, aha, this is now though I didn't even

995
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:40,960
Speaker 1: write down the name of it, because this puppet government

996
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: is so irrelevant. It didn't last. But the Red Fins

997
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,319
Speaker 1: didn't rush to join the puppet puppet government, and the

998
00:51:48,760 --> 00:51:54,440
Speaker 1: Soviets scarcely had enough Fins left to manage this puppet government. Instead,

999
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: the communists and the socialists, the workers and intellectuals alike,

1000
00:51:57,840 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 1: they rush to the front lines to defend Finland from

1001
00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 1: the Soviet Union. At least one Spanish Civil War veteran

1002
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 1: who was finished came back and told everyone what he

1003
00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:08,440
Speaker 1: had seen in the war and seen what a piece

1004
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: of shit Stalin was firsthand, and how he'd betrayed the revolution.

1005
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:15,680
Speaker 1: So the puppet government had no fucking support or very

1006
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: little support. There were a couple of the communists who

1007
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,000
Speaker 1: went off to it or whatever. The US star doesn't care.

1008
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,400
Speaker 1: They're not actually trying to set up a red government

1009
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:30,719
Speaker 1: in Finland. They're trying to fucking conquer. And so I

1010
00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: can't get into the mind of Stalin on this one.

1011
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:36,600
Speaker 1: At the start of one of the harshest winters in years,

1012
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:46,520
Speaker 1: he invades Finland. It fucking winter. The Finns, there's not

1013
00:52:46,640 --> 00:52:50,320
Speaker 1: a lot of things. They're known for, skiing, snow hunting,

1014
00:52:50,840 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 1: and fucking pure and raw emotionless heartiness and maybe saunas.

1015
00:52:56,719 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: That's what Finland's known for, which.

1016
00:52:59,440 --> 00:53:01,360
Speaker 2: I think you just summed up the word a Finnish

1017
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,520
Speaker 2: word sea su, which doesn't really translate into English, but

1018
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 2: that's kind of like they're oh yeah, sea sue is

1019
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:10,880
Speaker 2: this weird untranslatable form of Finish fortitude based on all

1020
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 2: those things you just brought up.

1021
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:15,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's not gonna go well, Okay, wait, I'm gonna

1022
00:53:15,280 --> 00:53:19,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell you my favorite Finish joke. There's two

1023
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: brothers they haven't seen each other in twenty years, and

1024
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:25,800
Speaker 1: they decide to go ice fishing. Have you heard this? Okay,

1025
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 1: So they show up, they cut a hole in the

1026
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,760
Speaker 1: ice and they start fishing. They haven't said a word,

1027
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: you know. Finally, a couple hours go by, and one

1028
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:35,240
Speaker 1: I was like, he passed me a beer, passing the beer.

1029
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:37,960
Speaker 1: A couple hours go by, Hey pass me beer, passing

1030
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 1: the beer. A couple hours go by, and he's like,

1031
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,520
Speaker 1: how you been, And the other brother looks and says,

1032
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: christ did we come here to talk or did we

1033
00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 1: come here to fish?

1034
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:52,120
Speaker 2: That's so finish. Yeah, you can sit at a table

1035
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:53,759
Speaker 2: with a fin for an hour and not say a

1036
00:53:53,760 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 2: thing and that's totally normal and fine. It's just how

1037
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,640
Speaker 2: it works, like that's that's awesome that if you've been

1038
00:53:59,640 --> 00:54:02,000
Speaker 2: there and around Finnish people, that is spot off.

1039
00:54:01,880 --> 00:54:03,359
Speaker 3: And like America needs that.

1040
00:54:04,080 --> 00:54:04,400
Speaker 2: I know.

1041
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: It's like I'm not trying to talk shit here, like, no.

1042
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 2: This isn't a negative at all. No, I don't think

1043
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:10,359
Speaker 2: it's neat.

1044
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 3: No.

1045
00:54:10,719 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 2: I was there. I was there having lunch one time

1046
00:54:13,000 --> 00:54:15,120
Speaker 2: with a bunch of my finn friends and and I

1047
00:54:15,239 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 2: just wasn't having the spoons as we were discussing, and

1048
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,439
Speaker 2: I just picked up my plate and went to another

1049
00:54:19,480 --> 00:54:22,320
Speaker 2: table and sat by myself. Yeah, and all the finish

1050
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:24,160
Speaker 2: there was one other person that was America like what's

1051
00:54:24,160 --> 00:54:26,040
Speaker 2: wrong with him? And the Fins are like, that's fine,

1052
00:54:26,080 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: leave them alone. That's that's not a problem at all.

1053
00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 2: Over there. That's how it works. Yeah, that's he that's

1054
00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:33,560
Speaker 2: that's not a problem. And that's how that's how it

1055
00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:34,080
Speaker 2: vibes there.

1056
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. And obviously all cultural norms are exaggerations and bell

1057
00:54:37,719 --> 00:54:39,640
Speaker 1: curves and all that sh and like you know.

1058
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 3: But.

1059
00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:48,640
Speaker 1: The most presented as the archetype of this style of behavior,

1060
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 1: the shootiest, huntiest moose, huntiest skiest, heartiest of all, the

1061
00:54:56,600 --> 00:55:00,959
Speaker 1: five foot three farmer and hunter named Simo Howe, who

1062
00:55:01,600 --> 00:55:05,920
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about on Wednesday. Eh, eh, a

1063
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: whole episode of context.

1064
00:55:07,120 --> 00:55:10,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited. I mean, I know the basics of

1065
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:11,440
Speaker 2: this guy, but I don't know what the depth you're

1066
00:55:11,440 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 2: going to go into. But what I can do is

1067
00:55:13,239 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: as a as a just a preview as for sure,

1068
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:21,560
Speaker 2: is how do you describe this person other than badass? Yeah?

1069
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:28,520
Speaker 1: Well, if people want to see badass shooty stuff. I

1070
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 1: don't know if you have any skiing content, but I

1071
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: would bet money there's videos of you shooting in the snow.

1072
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: How can people look up what you do?

1073
00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,280
Speaker 2: Ah, that's pretty easy. You can just go to nrange

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00:55:41,320 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 2: dot tv, which is a little website and All of

1075
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:48,480
Speaker 2: my decentralized distribution points are there, although all of you

1076
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:50,200
Speaker 2: will click on YouTube because that's what we do as

1077
00:55:50,239 --> 00:55:54,960
Speaker 2: consumers there. But I am decentralized and also completely demonetize,

1078
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:58,600
Speaker 2: completely crowdfunded and crowd supported, so I really don't have

1079
00:55:58,600 --> 00:56:02,359
Speaker 2: any overlords besides viewers hopefully that want to support my work.

1080
00:56:02,440 --> 00:56:04,359
Speaker 2: So in range dot tv is where you can find

1081
00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 2: my stuff.

1082
00:56:06,040 --> 00:56:10,960
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, Sophie. What about you to see pictures of

1083
00:56:11,040 --> 00:56:11,359
Speaker 1: your dog?

1084
00:56:11,480 --> 00:56:13,040
Speaker 3: Oh, they can see it on Instagram. But I want

1085
00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:16,399
Speaker 3: to plug specifically a series that Garrison Davis just did

1086
00:56:16,520 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 3: on It could happen here, updating folks and what's been

1087
00:56:19,400 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 3: going on since cop City got approved to be built

1088
00:56:23,080 --> 00:56:27,640
Speaker 3: in Atlanta. Three episodes are out as of last week.

1089
00:56:27,719 --> 00:56:29,600
Speaker 3: If you're listening to this in modern times, If not,

1090
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,400
Speaker 3: go back and listen to it. Gear has been covering

1091
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:36,920
Speaker 3: cop City for I don't know two years now, and

1092
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:40,600
Speaker 3: they've done a really good job of making you feel

1093
00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,920
Speaker 3: like you're there and giving a clear visual understanding of

1094
00:56:43,920 --> 00:56:45,399
Speaker 3: what's going on. So check it out.

1095
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:50,120
Speaker 1: Hell yeah, And if you want to follow me, you

1096
00:56:50,200 --> 00:56:53,920
Speaker 1: can google my name and I do too many different

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00:56:53,920 --> 00:56:56,040
Speaker 1: things and so you'll find a lot of them. My

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00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,279
Speaker 1: most recent book is called Escape from Inseill Island, and

1099
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 1: it is aner story in which protagonists have to escape

1100
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 1: an eyelid. It's full of in cells You on Wednesday by.

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00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,520
Speaker 3: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

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00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:17,640
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts from cool Zone Media,

1103
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:21,080
Speaker 3: visit our website Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1104
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,520
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

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00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 3: your podcasts.