1 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,720 Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's Bill Courtney with an army and normal folks. 2 00:00:06,800 --> 00:00:09,879 Speaker 1: And we continue now a part two of our conversation 3 00:00:09,960 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: with Gabby Larmp, right after these brief messages from our 4 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: general sponsors. So you go through this craziness, yes, you 5 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:31,840 Speaker 1: survive it. It's like it's like one in a million 6 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,919 Speaker 1: kind of miracle things that both you and Lewis are 7 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: now healthy and everything else, and you decide, you know, 8 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:45,240 Speaker 1: why don't we just go adopt. Also, let's just add 9 00:00:45,760 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 1: some more flavor to this life of ours. 10 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,040 Speaker 2: I've only been pregnant one time in my life, and 11 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 2: that one time I also had cancer. I was not 12 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: taking that chance again. 13 00:00:55,480 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: Do you think the pregnancy spurred the cancer? 14 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,480 Speaker 2: Well, no one can tell me this, but you know 15 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: when you are making a baby, you make a lot 16 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:08,559 Speaker 2: more blood in your body. So maybe there's a chance 17 00:01:08,640 --> 00:01:11,400 Speaker 2: that there was some kind of dormant situation going on 18 00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: in my body, and as my body was making more 19 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: blood to make the baby, maybe it sparked it. 20 00:01:17,680 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: Bit about stressors also, because stressors can be part of 21 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: that too. Yeah, well yeah, okay, so you're thinking not 22 00:01:26,000 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 1: doing that again, not doing that again. 23 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:31,800 Speaker 2: We had always wanted to adopt. That was always yes. 24 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,479 Speaker 2: We both in college had worked in like children's homes 25 00:01:35,480 --> 00:01:39,119 Speaker 2: in Guatemala and in Costa Rica because our we went 26 00:01:39,120 --> 00:01:41,399 Speaker 2: to this small university where they were very into like 27 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,319 Speaker 2: short term mission trips, So it was always like orphan 28 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 2: care was always a big thing for us, and we 29 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 2: just thought, hey, we always always wanted to adopt, let's 30 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: just start the process so our kids can be closer 31 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: in age. Yeah, so we started the adoption process as 32 00:01:58,880 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: soon as we could. And about two years. 33 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:04,600 Speaker 1: After, you realize that's kind of crazy. 34 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 2: Is does that sound crazy? 35 00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:11,360 Speaker 1: A little bit? Nuts? Do you a near death experience 36 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:15,959 Speaker 1: for both you and your job? Seven months of all 37 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:24,119 Speaker 1: of that, you're having to probably restart life now, and said, hey, 38 00:02:24,880 --> 00:02:25,919 Speaker 1: let's go get a kid. 39 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 40 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: I guess on the one hand, that's crazy. On the 41 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:33,840 Speaker 1: other hand, when you've truly contemplated and stared death in 42 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: the face, I guess you just want to get on 43 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: with life too. I mean, right right. 44 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: When I move forward, we were young. I was twenty 45 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 2: six when I had Lewis. By the time we brought 46 00:02:44,720 --> 00:02:47,399 Speaker 2: Jack home, I was thirty. I mean that's young. Yeah, 47 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 2: not even midlife yet. You know, we're ready to get 48 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 2: back to normal. That was crazy. We were like, that's 49 00:02:52,760 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 2: we kind of compartmentalized it. That's that's then the we're 50 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: now new, we're made whole. We're ready to just drink 51 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 2: our family. 52 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: Okay, So here in lies where first of all your 53 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: whole that whole thing is just insane. But we've often 54 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: talked about you don't have to be part of some 55 00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: big five OHO one C three to be part of 56 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 1: the army of normal folks. You can serve right in 57 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:22,680 Speaker 1: your community. And I can't imagine a greater face of 58 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 1: service than adopting, because often kids that you don't get 59 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 1: adopted as infants end up in austra cair and everything else. 60 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 1: So you know, you're making a life for someone who 61 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 1: didn't ask to be brought into this world, a much 62 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 1: better life than what the other trajectory as a high 63 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: likelihood would be. So awesome, good for you. So y'all 64 00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:55,400 Speaker 1: decide to adopt, yes, and tell me how that went? 65 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 2: Okay, So it was. You know, I thought, after having 66 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 2: been praying with cancer, that things couldn't get harder. What 67 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 2: could be harder or even difficult? Everything else should be downhill, 68 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 2: right right? So we start smooth sale Salem. So we 69 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: start the process and and I'm green. I'm green to 70 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:17,679 Speaker 2: the world. You know. I grew up in a small 71 00:04:17,720 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 2: town so loved. Nothing really bad ever happened to me, 72 00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:25,720 Speaker 2: like just so safe. My whole life had been safe. 73 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 2: And we start this process and I realized there are 74 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 2: a lot of people in the world who did not 75 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 2: have that, and that was a stark reality for me. 76 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 2: And it just made me so thankful for my parents 77 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: that they protected me and loved me. And that's the 78 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 2: best gift to be given. 79 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: Which is what you're giving a child when you. 80 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 2: Adopt them, exactly so, and knowing that we have that 81 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 2: love to give, you have to you know. So we 82 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 2: start the process with a like private Christian organization that 83 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 2: they really care for birth moms and take care of 84 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: them and give them everything they need and help them 85 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 2: find a placement for their baby, or they can choose 86 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 2: to keep the baby and not place it if they 87 00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:11,240 Speaker 2: want to, it's up to them. It's a really neat organization. 88 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:15,200 Speaker 2: Bethannye Christian Services is the name of it, and so 89 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 2: basically it's like one way online dating. That's funny, you 90 00:05:22,760 --> 00:05:28,719 Speaker 2: made the profile like online. Yeah, and the prospective birth moms. 91 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:31,680 Speaker 2: They get to look through all these families and say, Okay, 92 00:05:31,720 --> 00:05:34,200 Speaker 2: this family already has kids. I like that, or this 93 00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:35,960 Speaker 2: family doesn't have kids. I want my kid to be 94 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 2: an only child. You know, they get to make these decisions. 95 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:39,080 Speaker 2: It's wonderful. 96 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: So you're presenting yourself to the birth mothers, yes, so 97 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: that they can actually try to choose the best what 98 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,039 Speaker 1: they feel like would be the best path for their child. Yes, 99 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: well that's interesting. I like that. Actually, that's pretty cool. 100 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: So just kind of make it easier for a birth 101 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 1: mother to give up a child and they feel like 102 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 1: they're doing the best they can for the Yeah. 103 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 2: There's power in that, right. Yeah. So we make this book, 104 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:09,520 Speaker 2: we you know, put all these like we love being 105 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:12,480 Speaker 2: outside and talked about how I was the survivor of 106 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 2: cancer and gives us this fervor for a life. And 107 00:06:15,440 --> 00:06:18,320 Speaker 2: this family wants to meet us. We go to meet 108 00:06:18,320 --> 00:06:22,120 Speaker 2: this family and and that's the only family we ever met. 109 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:30,800 Speaker 2: One one couple. They chose us, and I didn't understand 110 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 2: right away what was happening, but we were able to 111 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 2: be together a couple of times, and I was able 112 00:06:38,080 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 2: to go to her doctor's appointment with her to be 113 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 2: able to see the baby on the sonogram and kind 114 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:47,760 Speaker 2: of have that experience and its adoption. Is this really 115 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 2: mysterious thing where you feel connected to that baby even 116 00:06:53,760 --> 00:06:55,960 Speaker 2: though it's not inside your body. 117 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:02,040 Speaker 1: I get that, But when you just said what you said, 118 00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: I also can't help. But wonder is it? 119 00:07:12,280 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 2: Wow? 120 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 1: I gotta be careful here. I want to choose this right. 121 00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:19,280 Speaker 1: And I don't mean I really mean. This is a question, 122 00:07:19,920 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: please hear me. It's curiosity. How does that birth mother 123 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:33,200 Speaker 1: feel sitting there pregnant, looking at her baby on a sonogram, 124 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:41,040 Speaker 1: accompanied by the woman that is going to now take 125 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: rais of That has to be that has to be challenging. 126 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:57,600 Speaker 2: Maybe, But the idea of it is for this family, 127 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: there is no world where they would get to keep 128 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: that baby. 129 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: It's their background problem. 130 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: So addiction, homelessness, just vicious cycles that they could not 131 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: get out of, and there was no way that they 132 00:08:13,240 --> 00:08:16,400 Speaker 2: would be able to if they didn't connect with this agency. 133 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 2: DCS would take the baby from birth and place it 134 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 2: in foster care, and that's how that would go. 135 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:26,040 Speaker 1: So that's horrific in and of itself. 136 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 2: Right. So this was a beautiful thing for them because 137 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: they were getting to choose us. 138 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: I get it, okay, so that I get it, And 139 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:40,600 Speaker 1: so they were completely aware of that reality as well. Yes, 140 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,400 Speaker 1: this maybe's going away one way or another. At least 141 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: this way we have control over the hopefully a better 142 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,440 Speaker 1: future for our child than we're able to and that 143 00:08:50,520 --> 00:08:51,800 Speaker 1: we had as children ourselves. 144 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:54,840 Speaker 2: Probably yes, they were seeing that. They were seeing our love, 145 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 2: they were seeing our care for our Lewis, and they 146 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:00,760 Speaker 2: wanted debt for their son. And she said the name 147 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 2: she had picked out with Jackson, and we said, that's great, 148 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 2: we love it, so we call it. His name's Jackson. 149 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 1: So you even allowed her to name. Yeah, good for you, 150 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,439 Speaker 1: Good for you. That's awesome. So you go to the 151 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: onograms and. 152 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:17,880 Speaker 2: See what's going on with the baby. It feels good. 153 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 2: Eventually we get to call it it's time time to 154 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 2: go to the hospital. 155 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:29,840 Speaker 1: Hold on, well, I'm sorry, I'm going. I'm behind you 156 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,760 Speaker 1: a step so I'm catching up, so my slow brain 157 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:38,360 Speaker 1: is just getting up to you. Then you know this child, 158 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:44,240 Speaker 1: this woman has done drugs and stuff while pregnant. There 159 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 1: are inherent risks and danger and the developmental possibilities and 160 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 1: deficiencies for this child. Are you wide ayd to that 161 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 1: at this point. 162 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,040 Speaker 2: At that point, yes, I was like this, this, this 163 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,040 Speaker 2: is happening. The term for this is NAS. I know 164 00:10:05,120 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 2: the lady, the previous guest you had, I don't think 165 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: she ever mentioned that, but we use the term NAS. 166 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 2: It stands for neonatal abstinence syndrome. 167 00:10:12,880 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: So this is all about syndrome. 168 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: Yes, so this is kind of the umbrella term that 169 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:23,920 Speaker 2: covers any child that's exposed to opioids in utero, and 170 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: there's not a ton of research on that even And 171 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:29,119 Speaker 2: we had this feeling in our heart. 172 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: That so you're willingly adopting a child that might be 173 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:32,880 Speaker 1: messed up. 174 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:37,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, he needs a homesick. 175 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:41,800 Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you want This is a little rhetorical, but 176 00:10:43,120 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 1: why wouldn't you want a baby that you know is 177 00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:47,760 Speaker 1: going to have all ten fingers, all ten toes and 178 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,880 Speaker 1: no problems? Would that be easier? 179 00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,880 Speaker 2: You never know what's going to happen. And we already 180 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 2: had gone through this experience of Lewis exposed to chemotherair 181 00:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,199 Speaker 2: be and in that moment we knew there's gonna be 182 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:06,560 Speaker 2: some similarities when we adopt a baby, Like we had 183 00:11:06,559 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 2: this feeling in our heart. We knew that that was 184 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,520 Speaker 2: all it was going to come, and you were not deterred. 185 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:25,319 Speaker 2: We're ready, and it was really hard. He like you have. 186 00:11:25,559 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 2: I mean, I could not believe when that episode dropped, 187 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: because now you know, you know what these babies go through. 188 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 2: They are born and they are going to have to 189 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:38,720 Speaker 2: detox like an adult. So he was born. I was 190 00:11:38,760 --> 00:11:44,079 Speaker 2: in the room and at our hospital at Children's in Knoxville, 191 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 2: they had to build a whole wing of the hospital 192 00:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 2: for these babies because there's. 193 00:11:48,800 --> 00:11:52,079 Speaker 1: So many because though scotten so big. 194 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 2: So bad there, so they get their own room. So 195 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:57,040 Speaker 2: it was really fun listening that they have their own 196 00:11:57,120 --> 00:12:01,000 Speaker 2: room so they can control for noise and lie and 197 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 2: have huddlers like these little old so they are doing 198 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 2: a lot of it. 199 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,720 Speaker 1: I have figured out that to recap in case you 200 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: haven't listened to the Terra Sundem episode is in a 201 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,199 Speaker 1: very brief deal, what we're talking about here now is 202 00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: best described as think of the worst migraine you've ever had, 203 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:29,199 Speaker 1: times one hundred. Is what withdraws from opioids feel like. 204 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:37,600 Speaker 1: And a child born to an opioid addicted mom. The 205 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 1: child the first twenty four hours or thirty six hours 206 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: out is fine, not screaming, none of that, because they're 207 00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: still addicted. Then when they start to withdraws, these little 208 00:12:50,760 --> 00:12:54,480 Speaker 1: two day old infants are having migraines times one hundred 209 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: and light and noise and everything, and they are literally 210 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: going through the same with a grown adult does. And 211 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:05,120 Speaker 1: this is their introduction to the world. And it takes 212 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:12,560 Speaker 1: sometimes eekes for these brand new newborn children who never 213 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: did anything wrong to get over the addiction that their 214 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:22,160 Speaker 1: mother lost them. And so you experienced that as a mom, 215 00:13:22,240 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: as an adoptive mother. 216 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:27,599 Speaker 2: Yes, So we're having some photos. A friend came and 217 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 2: took the photos of him, and it was in that 218 00:13:30,320 --> 00:13:33,240 Speaker 2: photo session my husband had his hand on him for 219 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,680 Speaker 2: a photo and he felt it the tremors start and 220 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,120 Speaker 2: he was just shaking. His little body was just shaking. 221 00:13:40,280 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 2: And we told the nurse and they said it's time. 222 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 2: And I mean, they have a whole process, they know 223 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,959 Speaker 2: what to do. You know, we're you know, we're there, 224 00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 2: just so green to it. We don't know what's happened, 225 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:51,319 Speaker 2: but you knew this. 226 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:53,520 Speaker 1: Was going to happen, or at least knew the possibility. 227 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 2: We figured that it would. But also it's our first rodeo, 228 00:13:57,000 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 2: so we don't know what was happening. 229 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,280 Speaker 1: We don't know what that actually looks. 230 00:14:00,679 --> 00:14:04,240 Speaker 2: Yes, So they from the hospital where he was born. 231 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:06,640 Speaker 2: There's a tunnel where you go under a street to 232 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 2: children's hospital just across the street. So they said, meet 233 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:12,920 Speaker 2: us over there. We'll take him, and got checked into 234 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 2: this little sweet room and I would stay all day 235 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:19,320 Speaker 2: and I would hold him and I would cuddle him, 236 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:21,920 Speaker 2: and we weren't going to leave him, you know, like 237 00:14:22,440 --> 00:14:24,680 Speaker 2: we needed us there with him. A lot of adoptive 238 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: families choose to not be involved until the birth of 239 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: the parents' rights are terminated, but we could not handle 240 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 2: the idea of him being alone there. So I would 241 00:14:37,040 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 2: be there during the day, and then Joseph would come 242 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,480 Speaker 2: from work and we would switch out and he would 243 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 2: sleep there to give him all of his bottles during 244 00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 2: the night, and then we'd switch back in the morning 245 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 2: and he would go to work and I would come 246 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 2: be with Jack and my parents were with Lewis at 247 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 2: our house. And we did that for two weeks, yikes. 248 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,760 Speaker 2: And then and then he finally said they wean him 249 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,800 Speaker 2: off the thing, and she talked about that day's morphine 250 00:15:03,160 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: to wean him off of all the things he'd been 251 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:09,520 Speaker 2: exposed to, and then we just had access to so much. 252 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 2: Early intervention people came to our house. They taught us 253 00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,640 Speaker 2: how to take care of him. I had to replicate 254 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: the Nikki in our home, Like I made a room 255 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 2: really dark and had a rocking chair in there, and 256 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 2: I would put Lewis on an iPad because I needed 257 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 2: to be able to care for jack and him not 258 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 2: be screaming and stuff. So you know, you do what 259 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:36,360 Speaker 2: you have to do to get through. And took him 260 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,680 Speaker 2: to therapy, you know, we did. We've just I think 261 00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:44,400 Speaker 2: that my army of normal folks, my family, my people 262 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:48,160 Speaker 2: that were holding me up, gave me what I needed 263 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: to be able to care for both of my boys. 264 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 2: I mean, I got a master's in school counseling, you know, 265 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 2: like I was ready to take care of my boys. 266 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. So I'm want to read something 267 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 1: from your book about this time he'd been exposed. Jackie 268 00:16:21,280 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: been exposed to various substances in Urdu, and once he 269 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:26,960 Speaker 1: was born, he had to detox himself, which we're talking about. 270 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: He did not know a life without drugs. We held 271 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: him in niek you as he detoxed talked about. Here's 272 00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: what we haven't talked about. The hate in my heart 273 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: for his birth bomb Annah just grew and grew, and 274 00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 1: I think it grew because I really needed someone to 275 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,800 Speaker 1: blame for the pain that Jack had to go through 276 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 1: and for the difficulties that would come his way in life. 277 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,120 Speaker 1: I wasn't even sure what was coming, but I just 278 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: knew someone really needed to take the blame. Jack's infant 279 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: months were difficult. He could not have any external stimuli, 280 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: especially when he was eating, or he wouldn't even be 281 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: able to eat, so we just had to swaddle him 282 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 1: tight and feed him in her dark room so that 283 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: he could get his calories. We had just made it 284 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 1: through the baby months. He was about a year old 285 00:17:15,280 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: and we got a call. It was from the adoption agency. 286 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:20,480 Speaker 1: They said that Jack's first mom was in the hospital. 287 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,600 Speaker 1: They asked if I wanted to go visit, and I did. 288 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,199 Speaker 1: I went to visit once and she asked me if 289 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,080 Speaker 1: I could come back again, and she asked me, this 290 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: is the person that you hated. And she asked me 291 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:33,320 Speaker 1: if I could bring her a Bible so that she 292 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:37,600 Speaker 1: could understand, and I brought her in the Jesus Storybook 293 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,440 Speaker 1: Bible the next time and read to her a little 294 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,560 Speaker 1: bit from the New Testament. About a week later, Jack's 295 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: birth mom died and it had actually been cancer that 296 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:49,560 Speaker 1: killed her. And it was really that full circle moment, 297 00:17:49,720 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, for me having been a cancer 298 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:58,800 Speaker 1: survivor and then Jack's birth mom dying for cancer. Wow, 299 00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,000 Speaker 1: she quite haden sorry, did him? 300 00:18:06,840 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 2: I had to it was it was her cancer diagnosis 301 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:17,880 Speaker 2: was just this normalization and I say, I control all delete, Uh, 302 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,360 Speaker 2: you forget about everything else, and you know that she's 303 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:24,879 Speaker 2: in this terrible pain and something that our family knew, 304 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 2: and it just really it just broke me. You know. 305 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:38,359 Speaker 2: It was breaking, a breaking time for me, because, Uh, 306 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:40,760 Speaker 2: I don't want to hate anyone. I don't want to 307 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 2: have to hold on to hate, especially the person who 308 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,919 Speaker 2: held my son and her body for nine months. And 309 00:18:46,960 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 2: I was holding on to all this and maybe I 310 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,679 Speaker 2: needed to at that time because he was dealing with 311 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,440 Speaker 2: things that no baby should have to deal with. And 312 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:00,560 Speaker 2: in my heart, previously I'd felt like it's all her fault. 313 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: If she wouldn't have made these choices, he wouldn't have 314 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:06,600 Speaker 2: been exposed to these things and he could have the 315 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 2: best life possible, because who knows what's going to happen 316 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 2: in the future, you know, at that time, when he's 317 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:16,359 Speaker 2: just struggling even to eat. And when I got that 318 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 2: call and then she passed away, it was like this 319 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 2: shift in my brain and I just thought about the 320 00:19:23,920 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 2: naughtiness of human life and how we all are facing 321 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,280 Speaker 2: these battles and we all have these things and issues 322 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 2: that we deal with. And I really did not have 323 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 2: a concept of addiction at all. I've never been around 324 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:38,119 Speaker 2: anyone who's was. 325 00:19:38,160 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: Just bad and bad people did it. 326 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't know anything. And the more I learned 327 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,640 Speaker 2: and dug into it, and especially like your podcast, learning 328 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 2: how all these people have all these aces, those adverse 329 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 2: childhood experiences up against them. They didn't have what I had, 330 00:19:56,160 --> 00:20:00,680 Speaker 2: you know, they were fighting their own battle. And when 331 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:06,399 Speaker 2: I started writing my memoir, I mean even more my 332 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 2: mind shifted because I had never made the connection until 333 00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:13,000 Speaker 2: I was writing my memoir. She and I did the 334 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:13,680 Speaker 2: same thing. 335 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:19,920 Speaker 1: This is the part said when you wrote me hammered 336 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 1: me and it made me tear up. We both exposed 337 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: our babies to toxins and substances that no baby should 338 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: come into contact with. It was the only way for 339 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:31,200 Speaker 1: both of us to survive. 340 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,520 Speaker 2: I could have chosen to not expose Lewis. That was 341 00:20:38,560 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: a choice that I made and I'm here today because 342 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:48,320 Speaker 2: of it. But that was a choice I made, and 343 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 2: she was making choices that she needed to make for 344 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:52,080 Speaker 2: her survival. 345 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: That is profound and gut riaching simultaneously. And we have 346 00:21:09,840 --> 00:21:15,639 Speaker 1: to remember what Terra taught us, which is there's a 347 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,159 Speaker 1: lot of people that get exposed to opioids in the 348 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:25,600 Speaker 1: medical world, but you have to have a predisposition toward 349 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 1: addiction for take hold of your life, and in this 350 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 1: case it did. She was sick, She had an addiction sickness. 351 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:46,680 Speaker 1: It was no different than your cancer. And you arrived 352 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:47,680 Speaker 1: at that conclusion. 353 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:52,920 Speaker 2: Actually, yes, I had never made that connection. 354 00:21:58,440 --> 00:22:02,600 Speaker 1: So what is writing about it do for you? And 355 00:22:02,640 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: what do you want the reader reading about this to 356 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:11,520 Speaker 1: understand about this evolution of thought and the revelation of 357 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:12,439 Speaker 1: this understanding. 358 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 2: I want people, first of all, I had to like 359 00:22:19,160 --> 00:22:23,000 Speaker 2: forgive myself or the previous thoughts that I had had. 360 00:22:23,119 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: You still tear up when you say it, have you? 361 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,400 Speaker 2: I have? I had to I had to forgive myself 362 00:22:28,840 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 2: for the feelings that I had of hate, for her 363 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:35,520 Speaker 2: in my heart when he was struggling so hard, because 364 00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,880 Speaker 2: I was a mama bear. I mean, you don't want 365 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 2: someone to hurt your child, and if you have a 366 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,960 Speaker 2: thought of someone who's hurt your child, You're going to 367 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 2: have negative thoughts about that person. 368 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:48,600 Speaker 1: You know, Boy, at least it would, I guarantee you. 369 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,359 Speaker 2: And then I had to come to terms with boy, 370 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:56,600 Speaker 2: that was also me, And that's like that's the gospel, 371 00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,639 Speaker 2: you know, like that was me. I was that person 372 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,800 Speaker 2: I put Lewis in a harmful situation. 373 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,719 Speaker 1: Some people would say, yeah, but you got cancer. You 374 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:10,399 Speaker 1: didn't do you didn't engage in activity that led to it. 375 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:13,280 Speaker 1: What's the answer to that? Because I think I know, but. 376 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,959 Speaker 2: Use I think that addiction is a disease. And I 377 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 2: don't know everything about Jack's birth mom, but I'm pretty 378 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 2: sure that she was in foster care and it was 379 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 2: just this cycle that would continue and she couldn't get 380 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 2: out of it, and everybody she didn't choose that. 381 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:36,280 Speaker 1: She did not choose, no more than you choose chose cancer. 382 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 2: And we both did what we had to do when 383 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:45,320 Speaker 2: she found out that she was pregnant. Jack's birth mom, 384 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 2: her pain medicine doctors. They said, you must continue taking 385 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:53,680 Speaker 2: everything that you're taking, because if you stop taking anything, 386 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 2: this baby will die in utero because they're used to it. 387 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 2: They need help to detail when they're on the outside 388 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,919 Speaker 2: and they can't do it in utero. And the things 389 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 2: that she was taking that he was exposed to are 390 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,280 Speaker 2: the types of things that are made to keep people alive, 391 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,680 Speaker 2: just like chemo. They're the drugs that you can't overdose 392 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,440 Speaker 2: on that help people who have suffered with the opioid crisis. 393 00:24:23,560 --> 00:24:32,960 Speaker 1: So wrinkles welcome. A cancer survivor's memoir. Wrinkles welcome. Yeah, 394 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: what's that about. You don't have wrinkles? 395 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:41,040 Speaker 2: I want them because you know what it means if 396 00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:43,439 Speaker 2: I have wrinkles on my face, I'm alive. 397 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:54,000 Speaker 1: Tell me about the The crisis is the best word 398 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:57,200 Speaker 1: I can go to it. It came to you in 399 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:01,680 Speaker 1: May of twenty twenty two when that MD Anderson Cancer 400 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 1: Center released an article that sent you into a telspin. 401 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 2: Okay, So, like I said before, the statistics on AML 402 00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 2: survivors are just they didn't apply to me, so I 403 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 2: didn't have to think about them. Md Anderson decided, well, 404 00:25:17,320 --> 00:25:20,880 Speaker 2: there's not any research on young adults survivors of leukemia, 405 00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: specifically AML. So they did all this research and their 406 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 2: findings were that ten years out from completing your chemo 407 00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:31,679 Speaker 2: and everything you have to. 408 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,280 Speaker 1: Do, which was what date for you, hasn't. 409 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:40,480 Speaker 2: Even happened yet happened April April seventh, sorry is my date. 410 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,760 Speaker 2: This coming April will be ten years. So ten years 411 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 2: out from finishing treatment, one in ten will die. That 412 00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 2: is not a good statistic. And I was really scared, 413 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,160 Speaker 2: and I was really hurt because I thought, oh, we've 414 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,960 Speaker 2: made it through this. Every every year goes by, I'm 415 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,920 Speaker 2: further from all of that. And I'm just gonna because 416 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:13,399 Speaker 2: previously I had asked my cologists it's a weird question, 417 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:15,320 Speaker 2: but like, what's my life expectancy? 418 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,119 Speaker 1: It's not a weird question. It is exactly what I 419 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: would be thinking, right, I would be absolutely would be. 420 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:26,760 Speaker 2: They said it's normal what anybody else's would be. And 421 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,560 Speaker 2: I was like, okay, great, I'm thinking And then M. D. 422 00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:32,280 Speaker 1: Anderson drops a study on you two years ago. 423 00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm thinking that's not good. I don't like 424 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,200 Speaker 2: those numbers. I don't like those odds. 425 00:26:37,240 --> 00:26:38,719 Speaker 1: And my doctors had been fibbon. 426 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,680 Speaker 2: Well, they didn't know. Nobody knew because I. 427 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: Know it's kind of keeping this but yeah, so fase research, 428 00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:47,000 Speaker 1: this is what you've got to feel. 429 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm just thinking, Oh, that changes things, That really 430 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,960 Speaker 2: really changes things for me. And the place where I 431 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 2: really landed was and you know, many conversations with many trusted, 432 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 2: wisdom filled people that you and I all we have 433 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 2: is today we're on the same playing field. It doesn't 434 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 2: matter what happened nine years ago for either one of us. 435 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: That even scripture tells us like, don't worry about tomorrow. 436 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 2: I have today and this is it. And that is 437 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,440 Speaker 2: how I've had to move forward in life is understanding 438 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,000 Speaker 2: that this is the day that I have right now. 439 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 2: And I hope that tomorrow comes. I really do, but 440 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:38,040 Speaker 2: right now this is it. 441 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:58,640 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Tell me about Jack today. 442 00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:05,399 Speaker 2: Jack is so so special. He his brain is not 443 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 2: like anyone else's I've ever met. He is more aware 444 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 2: of where his body is in the world than anyone else. 445 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:17,080 Speaker 2: Like he can run down a mountain and not fall down, 446 00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,320 Speaker 2: like he'll probably be in the Olympics. 447 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: Is he that athletic? 448 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 2: Really so athletic? 449 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:25,919 Speaker 1: Really that's cool? Yeah? How old is he? Six? Okay, 450 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: so he can run down on a phone. He's going 451 00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,960 Speaker 1: to be in the Olympic down mountain running thing. 452 00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,920 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, they're going to create a support for him. Right, 453 00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 2: but he just started kindergarten and he can write his name, 454 00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:41,760 Speaker 2: and he knows his numbers, and he's just drugging right along. 455 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: Full of energy? 456 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 1: Is he developing properly? 457 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,120 Speaker 2: He is full of energy. 458 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: That's a second, a second miracle. In writing this memoir, 459 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 1: I had doubts about what to share, as this is 460 00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: such a sensitive and difficult subject. However, this is how 461 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:09,240 Speaker 1: or true story ours, Jack Lewis and Joseph. What's up, Joseph, 462 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: Jack Lewis, Joseph, Gabby. This is our true story. This 463 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: is how our sunside Jack came to in our lives. 464 00:29:19,760 --> 00:29:22,560 Speaker 1: This is one example of how adoption happened and how 465 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 1: our lives were forever changed by Anna and Dustin choosing 466 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:30,120 Speaker 1: us to be Jack's forever family. It's also a story 467 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:36,200 Speaker 1: about how Lewis oddly saved your life, which the irony 468 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:42,600 Speaker 1: to me is that in some sense you could you 469 00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: could argue that Lewis saved you which allowed you to 470 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:48,520 Speaker 1: save Jack. 471 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:53,640 Speaker 2: Yes, and the reason why I know the reason why 472 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,200 Speaker 2: I made it through having had cancer while's pregnant was 473 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:01,920 Speaker 2: because of my parents. And it just goes on. And 474 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:03,920 Speaker 2: I write about this, and I use this phrase all 475 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 2: the time. It's from a Christmas song, but repeat the 476 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,600 Speaker 2: sounding joy because there's so many people around me who 477 00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:16,360 Speaker 2: had really, really terrible childhoods and really sad situations, and 478 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 2: they're trying to break free of all these generational traumas. 479 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:25,640 Speaker 2: And what I experienced was this inheritance of love and safety. 480 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 2: And I know that that is why I was able 481 00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:32,400 Speaker 2: to go through my treatment without any problems and just 482 00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:35,800 Speaker 2: felt so secure in who I was that I could 483 00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 2: focus on Lewis and taking care of him and taking 484 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 2: care of my body. And now I get to repeat 485 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:41,640 Speaker 2: that to my voice. 486 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:48,920 Speaker 1: Joseph is an unsung hero here too. He deserves about 487 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: twenty thousand high fives. 488 00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: Joseph's the best. He is the best. 489 00:30:53,360 --> 00:30:54,000 Speaker 1: He's a rock. 490 00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,920 Speaker 2: He is the person you want on your team. 491 00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, six four bad. I can handle anything, exactly and 492 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,080 Speaker 1: if you're ungryll walk down the street and get your 493 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:06,320 Speaker 1: cheeseburger exactly so. 494 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:08,959 Speaker 2: And I write about this in the book, and I 495 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,360 Speaker 2: have to tell you this. A couple of months right 496 00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 2: after the MD Anderson information broke out. And this has 497 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 2: really changed my life. How I see things in one 498 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 2: day at a time today is a gift. It's beautiful. 499 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:23,200 Speaker 2: A lot of cancer survivors are that way, you know. 500 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,560 Speaker 2: We're just so thankful to be here because things could 501 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,640 Speaker 2: have gone very differently. And his job is very stressful. 502 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,640 Speaker 2: He's a CFO of a couple of car dealerships, and 503 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 2: he was very feeling very stressed out and wanting to 504 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,400 Speaker 2: be the best person at work and wanting to be 505 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,000 Speaker 2: the best husband, son. He's the only child, husband, father, 506 00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 2: He wants to be all the things to all the people, 507 00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,480 Speaker 2: and that's just a lot, you know. And he was saying, 508 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:51,520 Speaker 2: I cannot wait to be retired, and I was like, 509 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,480 Speaker 2: I don't. I don't get to think about that. I 510 00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 2: don't think about sixty seven and a half years old. 511 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:02,680 Speaker 2: That's not I can't be in the present moment always 512 00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:06,080 Speaker 2: and be thinking of I can't wait to live this 513 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,640 Speaker 2: way in some distant future, because I don't know, none 514 00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,440 Speaker 2: of us know if I'm. 515 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's it's it's especially king to someone who 516 00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,560 Speaker 1: survived what you've survived, right, So each day probably is 517 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 1: a little bit different approach for you than it is 518 00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,920 Speaker 1: for me. And but the richness of that is part 519 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,320 Speaker 1: of the lesson, isn't it? For sure? 520 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 2: For sure? So I told him I can't, I can't 521 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:37,880 Speaker 2: think about retirement this that's not my mind's view. And 522 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,000 Speaker 2: we made this plan and he took it to his 523 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,960 Speaker 2: boss and his boss when when I was sick, that's 524 00:32:44,000 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 2: seven months, his boss continued to pay him that whole time. 525 00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:50,880 Speaker 1: His boss is a good dude. 526 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:54,680 Speaker 2: Boss is a good dude. His name's Adam White. 527 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:57,719 Speaker 1: What's the name of his dealerships? Free Plug? 528 00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,800 Speaker 2: I know got North Knox Chryslerdad, Deep and Ram and 529 00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:03,160 Speaker 2: Secret City Christ of Jodge, Deep and Ram. 530 00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,640 Speaker 1: Just known those places are owned by a good dude 531 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,280 Speaker 1: and the money is kept up with with the rock. 532 00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,520 Speaker 1: So if you're in at Knoxville, go buy vehicles there. 533 00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 2: Yes, So he Joseph came to Adam and said, hey, 534 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 2: I're going to make a change. I've got to go 535 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,200 Speaker 2: to four tenths. And I said, do what you need 536 00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 2: to do. So now on Fridays we take our kids 537 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,760 Speaker 2: to school and we live like retired people. 538 00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:42,280 Speaker 1: Wow, that's just beautiful, right, Gabby. When I first read 539 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:47,200 Speaker 1: the title, Wrinkles Welcome, a cancer survivor's memoir. I thought, well, 540 00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:50,360 Speaker 1: what a wonderful thing for people going through cancer, or 541 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,120 Speaker 1: for uplifting hope that you're going to survive camphor, or 542 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,120 Speaker 1: if you've been through cancer and all of that. I 543 00:33:56,160 --> 00:34:00,880 Speaker 1: saw what this book's about. What is this book about. 544 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:05,600 Speaker 2: This book is about knowing that you can make an 545 00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:10,399 Speaker 2: impact in your little sphere, your little circle, even if 546 00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,840 Speaker 2: you just live with your little family. I know that 547 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,239 Speaker 2: I'm okay because my parents took care of me and 548 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 2: loved me, and that was going to save me. You 549 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,480 Speaker 2: don't know what's coming for your kids, and you loving 550 00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 2: your kids, taking care of them, having a safe environment 551 00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,920 Speaker 2: for them, for all kids that all kids deserve, that 552 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 2: that is going to be the thing that saves them 553 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,600 Speaker 2: when whatever thing's come in for them. Because you don't 554 00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: know what's coming, you need that deep well, it's been 555 00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,960 Speaker 2: dug so carefully and filled up with so much love 556 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 2: and safety to draw from. And I just really want 557 00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 2: to encourage moms and dads to know, like what you're 558 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,640 Speaker 2: doing matters in the lives of your kids. And I 559 00:34:55,640 --> 00:34:57,840 Speaker 2: wouldn't be here if my parents hadn't taken care of me. 560 00:34:57,880 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: In that way, Gabby is a living proof of something 561 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:09,000 Speaker 1: we talk about all the time, which is all you've 562 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:12,400 Speaker 1: got to do is employ your passion and your abilities 563 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,000 Speaker 1: where it meets opportunity, and you can change lives and 564 00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:19,520 Speaker 1: you do not have to start some massive organization to 565 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:23,440 Speaker 1: do it, because Gabby has a passion as a loving 566 00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:26,920 Speaker 1: parent that she got from her loving parents, has a 567 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: passion for life because she experienced the fear of what 568 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: not having life would be, and she saw an opportunity 569 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,560 Speaker 1: and adopted Jack. And there's no doubt his life is 570 00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,240 Speaker 1: far better today than it would have been given its 571 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:52,400 Speaker 1: original trajectory. It's just being a normal person, normal folks 572 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,080 Speaker 1: seeing a place and fill a need. And in the 573 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,359 Speaker 1: midtime wrote a book that I think everybody should read 574 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:03,839 Speaker 1: if you want a perspective on life that should increase 575 00:36:03,960 --> 00:36:07,960 Speaker 1: your awareness of its richness and the blessing of every 576 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:15,240 Speaker 1: single day. Yes, you're amazing. I wish so much people 577 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,120 Speaker 1: could see your sweet smile and face and how full 578 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: of life and color you are, and see how just 579 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:36,560 Speaker 1: genuinely kind of a soul that you are. If there's 580 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 1: somebody out there thinking about adopting and is fearful of 581 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:43,959 Speaker 1: what if I adopt a kid with problems, if there's 582 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: somebody out there that struggling with answer and needs encouragement, 583 00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,719 Speaker 1: I gotta believe you'd be happy to with them. 584 00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,160 Speaker 2: Yes, I would love to talk to anyone about any 585 00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:55,920 Speaker 2: of these issues. 586 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:57,920 Speaker 1: And if there's anyboy out there that just wants to 587 00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,440 Speaker 1: know more about your book, yes, how do they reach you? 588 00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:06,040 Speaker 2: So? You can find me on Instagram at Gabby Larent 589 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:10,680 Speaker 2: Rights and you can contact me there. And I've got 590 00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:12,280 Speaker 2: a website being built right now. 591 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:13,879 Speaker 1: What's it going to be called? 592 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:14,919 Speaker 2: I'm not sure yet? 593 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:16,080 Speaker 1: All right? How about email? 594 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:18,279 Speaker 2: I've got it. I've got a Gmail. You want me 595 00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,400 Speaker 2: to say it? Yeah, yeah, it's Gabby Laurentz. 596 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,840 Speaker 1: I say, oh yeah, so you say you're okay? 597 00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,360 Speaker 2: All right, Gabby Larent twenty four at Gmail. 598 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,000 Speaker 1: There you go, and you can reach out if you're 599 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:33,919 Speaker 1: if you or someone who loves dealing with cancer, if 600 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,279 Speaker 1: you want to hear more about this book, or if 601 00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:42,239 Speaker 1: you're thinking about adopting and have trepidation. You have just 602 00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 1: met a person who's been through all of it and 603 00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: would be an amazing point of inspiration. I'm certain, Gabby, 604 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: tell me your favorite story of Lewis and Jack together 605 00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:07,160 Speaker 1: of this family you've met or one of your favorite 606 00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:12,200 Speaker 1: stories about Lewis and Jack's interaction. These two kids, both 607 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: of whom had an interesting introduction into our world. We 608 00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:23,600 Speaker 1: are now brothers. How do they interact? 609 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:28,680 Speaker 2: They are full on brothers. They play together, they go 610 00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:32,719 Speaker 2: crazy together. We've made our room, sorry, our house very 611 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:37,080 Speaker 2: kid friendly, so they can just jump all over everything 612 00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:40,560 Speaker 2: in the house. All their sensory systems need to be 613 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:45,280 Speaker 2: playing at all times. But Lewis is the most tenderhearted 614 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 2: kid you ever meet. When he meets a new adult, 615 00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 2: he always says, where were you on nine eleven? 616 00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:56,319 Speaker 1: Where were you on nine eleven? Really? How old is he? 617 00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:57,000 Speaker 2: He's nine? 618 00:38:57,160 --> 00:38:59,920 Speaker 1: Wow, that's crazy. Why does he want to know that? 619 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 2: Because he read a book about it? Curious, very curious. 620 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:10,280 Speaker 2: Because of Jack and our experience with Jack and him 621 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:15,520 Speaker 2: having some needs, Lewis is more tender and aware of 622 00:39:15,880 --> 00:39:20,560 Speaker 2: other people who have needs, and he befriends the kids 623 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:21,240 Speaker 2: who have needs. 624 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 1: Empathy, real live empathy. 625 00:39:24,239 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 2: Real life empathy. 626 00:39:26,719 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 1: So you've got this Jack and Lewis family. Tell me 627 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:33,960 Speaker 1: about Jack's other brother. 628 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:38,960 Speaker 2: Okay, so Jack's other brother is named Nicholas. He is 629 00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 2: exactly one year older than Jack. He was adopted through 630 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 2: foster care by his mom, Carrie, and they live about 631 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,840 Speaker 2: twenty minutes from us. Crazy crazy And one of my 632 00:39:52,920 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 2: favorite things about Lewis is that he loves to say, Okay, 633 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,280 Speaker 2: this is Nicholas is Jack's brother, and Jack is my brother, 634 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:03,840 Speaker 2: but Nicholas is not my brother. 635 00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:11,960 Speaker 1: Does do Are Nicholas and Jack completely aware of one another? Yes? 636 00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 2: And they are little twins and their energy level is 637 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,080 Speaker 2: the same. So when we get together, it's on. It's 638 00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:25,359 Speaker 2: like wwe like wrestling and just so much energy and 639 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:26,719 Speaker 2: it's beautiful. 640 00:40:26,880 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: Did Nicholas struggle with the same things Jack did? Same things? 641 00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:36,680 Speaker 1: Is it potential that they would go to school together 642 00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:37,120 Speaker 1: one day? 643 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 2: No? But he does go to a school where a 644 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:43,680 Speaker 2: friend that I have from church is a teacher. No kidding, 645 00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,239 Speaker 2: And I said, listen, Jack's Brother's coming in and she 646 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,239 Speaker 2: was so excited to see him on the first day. 647 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:50,439 Speaker 1: What is Nicholas's mom? 648 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 2: Same Carrie? 649 00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,239 Speaker 1: Carrie? Do you and Carrie and everybody get together and 650 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:55,840 Speaker 1: have these big play dates and stuff. 651 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,880 Speaker 2: Yes, And it's like an extra parent, you know, because 652 00:40:59,719 --> 00:41:01,680 Speaker 2: you know with your kids, you know you've got one kid. 653 00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,400 Speaker 2: If a kid has an allergy to something, you know 654 00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:05,160 Speaker 2: to look for. 655 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,240 Speaker 1: That and the other. That's right. 656 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,040 Speaker 2: So it's super helpful to be able to text her 657 00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,520 Speaker 2: about any little random thing where like sister moms or something. 658 00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:17,680 Speaker 2: It's amazing, it's a huge blessing for our family. 659 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 1: What a crazy, mixed up, beautiful mess going on. It's 660 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:32,120 Speaker 1: but it's beautiful, it really is. And again, you know, 661 00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,360 Speaker 1: where would Nicholas be without Carrie? Where would Jack be 662 00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:39,200 Speaker 1: without Gabby? And you want to make an imprint on 663 00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,440 Speaker 1: this world, there's about a thousand different ways to do it. 664 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 2: Starts at home. 665 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:49,000 Speaker 1: Gabby. What an amazing story, Joseph. I wish you to 666 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: come and hung out with us, because I know you've 667 00:41:51,480 --> 00:41:54,799 Speaker 1: got to be proud of this wife of yours. And 668 00:41:55,719 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: one last question, given what you've been through and given 669 00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:12,920 Speaker 1: the unknown about this ridiculous disease that you had to 670 00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:15,760 Speaker 1: fight at such a young age, not being a seventy 671 00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:22,799 Speaker 1: year old white dude, right, how do you approach each 672 00:42:22,880 --> 00:42:25,319 Speaker 1: day in month and each scan or each check up 673 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:31,839 Speaker 1: or whatever it is you go through being a mom 674 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:35,359 Speaker 1: who clearly wants to be her husband's wife and her 675 00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:39,960 Speaker 1: children's mother. What sustained you. 676 00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:49,200 Speaker 2: My faith, knowing that when I was sick, all I 677 00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:53,080 Speaker 2: had was my hope in God and curious through And 678 00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 2: if I know that He did that, then I know 679 00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:58,600 Speaker 2: that He can do that for as long as I 680 00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:04,200 Speaker 2: can go. And it is scary. Every time I have 681 00:43:04,239 --> 00:43:06,520 Speaker 2: to have a blood draw to check it. It is scary. 682 00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,320 Speaker 2: It doesn't go away, and I just have to remember 683 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:14,560 Speaker 2: that hope. We have this picture of me at the 684 00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:17,319 Speaker 2: bottom of the stairs in our house. I'm bald, I'm 685 00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 2: looking out the window and I have my hands under 686 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:24,640 Speaker 2: my belly and I call it my ebenezer. It's my touchstone. 687 00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,160 Speaker 2: So I see that and I say, I remember what 688 00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 2: God brought me through. And when I get scared, I 689 00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,000 Speaker 2: can look at that and say, don't forget. We've been 690 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:37,359 Speaker 2: here before. If it comes back, we'll get through it again. 691 00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:40,560 Speaker 2: And I just have to move forward. And the blood 692 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,200 Speaker 2: work's always great. And then I take a big sigh 693 00:43:43,239 --> 00:43:45,560 Speaker 2: of relief and I go back to washing dishes. 694 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: Your lights, your husband, your lights, your kids, but your 695 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:55,240 Speaker 1: light to the world. Everybody wrinkles. Welcome a cancer survivor's memoir. 696 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:59,320 Speaker 1: It's not about cancer, it's not about motherhood. It really 697 00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 1: is about approach to life. You know how to reach 698 00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:06,080 Speaker 1: out to Gabby if you want to. I hope you will. 699 00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:08,920 Speaker 1: I hope you will read her book. 700 00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:10,960 Speaker 2: September seventeenth. 701 00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,880 Speaker 1: September seventeenth is when it's released. Is that it? So 702 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,759 Speaker 1: thank you for the I'm glad so September seventeenth. This 703 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:25,000 Speaker 1: thing's coming out and buy it, get it, read it, 704 00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,200 Speaker 1: reach out to her. This really isn't a podcast where 705 00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:35,920 Speaker 1: we intentionally promote books or stuff. I rarely promote my 706 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: own book, right, But in this regard, I'm not promoting 707 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:44,359 Speaker 1: it so Gabby gets royalties. I'm promoting it because I 708 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: think it is a beautiful example of what being a 709 00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,160 Speaker 1: number of the army of normal folks is really about, 710 00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: and how no matter what your station in life, what 711 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:59,720 Speaker 1: you're faced with, or what your abilities are, we can 712 00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:04,000 Speaker 1: all all effect positive change in this world. And I 713 00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: imagine this book's going to be something special. Gabby, thanks 714 00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:08,320 Speaker 1: for coming to Memphis, thanks. 715 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:10,400 Speaker 2: For joining me, thank you, thank you so much. 716 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:22,240 Speaker 1: And thank you for joining us this week. If Gabby 717 00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:25,800 Speaker 1: or other guests have inspired you in general, or better yet, 718 00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:31,080 Speaker 1: to take action by adopting a child or helping someone 719 00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:36,279 Speaker 1: through their cancer journey or something else entirely. Please let 720 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:38,719 Speaker 1: me know I'd love to hear about it. You can 721 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: write me anytime at Bill at normalfolks dot us, and 722 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:47,000 Speaker 1: I promise you I'll respond. You know what, if you 723 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:51,280 Speaker 1: enjoyed the episode, share it with friends on social, subscribe 724 00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,919 Speaker 1: to the podcast, rate it, review it, join the army 725 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:59,279 Speaker 1: at normalfolks dot us, consider becoming a Premium member there. 726 00:46:00,120 --> 00:46:03,160 Speaker 1: Any and all of these things help us grow an 727 00:46:03,320 --> 00:46:07,360 Speaker 1: army of normal folks. Thanks to our producer, Ironlight Labs, 728 00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:09,879 Speaker 1: I'm Bill Courtney. I'll see you next week.