WEBVTT - Randall Einhorn 0:00:05.320 --> 0:00:07.680 My name is Randoline Horn. I was the director of 0:00:07.680 --> 0:00:14.320 photography on the Office and sometimes Director of the Office. 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:19.520 Hello everybody, thanks for joining us back here on the 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:24.599 Office Deep Dive. As always, I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. 0:00:24.720 --> 0:00:29.360 Now today we have such a treat for you. This episode, 0:00:29.920 --> 0:00:33.120 al right, is the beginning of a kind of mini series, 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:37.160 a deep dive within the Deep dive, if you will, 0:00:37.560 --> 0:00:42.640 about the camera on the Office, specifically the camera as 0:00:42.640 --> 0:00:45.880 a character. As I have said many times, the thing 0:00:46.040 --> 0:00:49.640 that I am most proud of about the Office is 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:54.960 the attention to detail about the camera. Every shot was 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:59.880 meticulously thought out to make it feel like a real document. 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:03.040 In every scene we shot, there was always a conversation 0:01:03.240 --> 0:01:06.960 about the cameras angle, the way that it moved, and 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.120 the intention of the camera. And so who better to 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.600 talk about all of this than the guy who shot it, 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:17.160 the guy who was holding the camera, Randall Einhorn. Now 0:01:17.200 --> 0:01:20.640 I love Randall's story. Okay, I'm not gonna give it away, 0:01:20.840 --> 0:01:23.240 but let me just say that he started out as 0:01:23.280 --> 0:01:30.400 a river guide deep in Australia might down Under into wilderness, 0:01:30.680 --> 0:01:34.360 and and then he ended up as dep of the Office. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:39.120 It's incredible and even though Randall is this like adventurer, 0:01:39.240 --> 0:01:44.320 e outdoorsman guy who'd rather sleep in dirt than a bed, 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.880 he is also the sweetest guy that you'll ever meet. 0:01:48.240 --> 0:01:51.760 And he and I have spent many a night at 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:55.720 his home, which used to be an ash ram, drinking wine, 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:59.760 looking at the stars and talking about life and the 0:01:59.760 --> 0:02:02.919 things that are really important. And as you'll hear momentarily, 0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:06.000 he still holds what we did on the office as 0:02:06.080 --> 0:02:11.400 something truly special. Folks, there may be some tears today. Okay, 0:02:11.520 --> 0:02:15.519 I'm not saying who's but you're gonna find out soon enough. 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:21.040 So please welcome the man behind the camera, Randall Einhorn, 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:32.760 Bubble and squeak. I love it. Bubble and squeak, Bubble 0:02:32.800 --> 0:02:37.720 and squeaker, cookie, every moment left over from the Natbyle. 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:50.600 I mean, you know how it is here you're over there. 0:02:51.360 --> 0:02:54.840 It's just been crazy. I just came up for air myself. 0:02:54.919 --> 0:02:59.120 I just I did a pilot for HBO Max that 0:02:59.200 --> 0:03:05.120 I just finished shooting on Friday. You know, pilot. It's 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:09.160 really good. Yeah, they're doing eight shows in the next 0:03:09.520 --> 0:03:13.080 uh this thank you volumes on the left here, Okay, 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:15.600 no one has adjusted the volume yet I'm going to 0:03:16.720 --> 0:03:18.639 it's on the left. You watch me if I get 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.680 too much of you. I just just did this on 0:03:20.760 --> 0:03:26.359 the left. Nothing nothing at all? Can hear it at all? 0:03:26.440 --> 0:03:28.320 I can hear you now. I turned it back out. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.079 Less it. Um. So it's HBO. Max got eighty new 0:03:32.160 --> 0:03:35.880 shows that they're doing next year, and mine was I 0:03:35.920 --> 0:03:39.840 hope one of them. Have you seen Launch forty nine? No? Um, 0:03:39.880 --> 0:03:41.600 I mean unless that makes me sound dumb, and then 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:43.920 yes I have, but I don't remember much about it. 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:47.960 Remind me you haven't seen it. Nobody watched it. It 0:03:48.080 --> 0:03:50.200 was an hour on a MC. This feels weird talking 0:03:50.240 --> 0:03:54.000 to you looking at you with through the microphone and 0:03:54.040 --> 0:03:59.680 the headphones. Why we're just having your chat? Um? What 0:03:59.760 --> 0:04:01.560 do you do lodge for you? I did the pilot 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.320 for that on AMC and that was an hour and 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:08.360 it was on just after A Better Call Saul. Here's 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:13.280 my issue. AMC is just confusing to me, and I'll 0:04:13.280 --> 0:04:16.799 tell you why. The reason is, they do remarkable shows, 0:04:17.920 --> 0:04:21.719 but I never understand when it's things are on right, 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:26.520 So I just eventually, but I'm the schmuck that like 0:04:26.960 --> 0:04:30.280 I'm like, oh, shoot, better call Saul has had four 0:04:30.320 --> 0:04:34.160 episodes and then I go buy them on Amazon or whatever. 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.839 So I'm I'm I guess I'm contributing to their bottom certainly, 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:39.960 thank you very much. Maybe they ushul do it for 0:04:40.040 --> 0:04:45.480 lodge by it. Um. Alright, So now you're a big 0:04:45.480 --> 0:04:50.360 time Hollywood director, super big time, really big time. If 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:55.360 I can draw randall IONHRN super big, super big, super big. 0:04:55.560 --> 0:04:58.200 Does anyone ask you like, oh, is this your production company? 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:00.240 And You're like, no, I'm just super big time times 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.080 a super big time. I actually have a production company 0:05:03.160 --> 0:05:07.960 name finally, because I have I sold three pilots this year. Um. 0:05:08.120 --> 0:05:11.960 Sad Unicorn. Sad Unicorn, Yeah, because the iron horn is 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:14.760 a unicorn, and why is it sad? Because it's funny 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:18.200 when a unicorn is sad? Right, that might be the 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:23.960 best production company name that I've ever heard. Sad Unicorn. Yeah, 0:05:24.360 --> 0:05:26.560 I will say, I don't know why. The only other 0:05:27.160 --> 0:05:29.600 name that is popping into my head that that I 0:05:29.640 --> 0:05:33.400 think can compete with Sad Unicorn is bad Robot. I 0:05:33.440 --> 0:05:36.360 think that Bad Robot that's a really good that's a 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:41.400 really good one. I also thought about Misery Loves Company. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:44.960 There you go, that sounds like a game show. CEO 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:49.599 on the end you have Alright, I'm gonna say that 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.320 I was about to compliment you, but I don't. I 0:05:52.360 --> 0:05:55.680 don't feel I don't feel quiet. Um now I don't. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:05:58.640 I don't feel quite ready. Um all right, So now 0:05:58.720 --> 0:06:01.599 you're this big time, super big, super big, super big 0:06:01.600 --> 0:06:05.599 time sorry, super big time, um writer, producer. What were 0:06:05.640 --> 0:06:10.039 you doing prior to the years two thousand and five 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:12.480 ish four ish five ish? What were what were you 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.400 working on? Then? So I came in. The reason I 0:06:15.400 --> 0:06:18.760 got to the office is I was depeeing some extreme 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:24.400 sports stuff, snowboarding with Seawan White and Jeremy Jones who 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:30.279 are snowboarders, and Jackson Hole and Ben Silverman decided that 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.159 I was the guy to shoot the office because I 0:06:33.200 --> 0:06:37.920 can shoot outdoor extreme sports. So therefore you should shoot 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:41.840 the office because you've I mean, I came from outdoor 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.720 adventure sports. I came from the Eco Challenge, and then 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:47.159 I was a DP on Survivor as well the whole 0:06:47.200 --> 0:06:50.280 time the first season of Survivor, the first season I 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.400 did be the first one, and then I ended up 0:06:52.520 --> 0:06:55.880 you know, being operator on six More Wow. So I 0:06:55.920 --> 0:06:59.800 came from outdoor adventure pursuits and then I ended up 0:06:59.839 --> 0:07:04.840 in a fluorescent uh office? Right? And did you work 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.240 with Ben? How did you know Ben? Because Ben came 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.720 to Jackson Hole while I was shooting this extreme sports 0:07:09.760 --> 0:07:13.080 stuff and decided I was the guy. And so he 0:07:13.120 --> 0:07:16.200 went to Greg and said, this is our guy. Yeah, 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:18.120 this is our guy. And Greg and I said a 0:07:18.160 --> 0:07:21.840 meeting to meet at a coffee being near here, which 0:07:21.880 --> 0:07:24.760 is on Santa Monica Boulevard. And I knew of a 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:27.280 coffee being on Santa Monica Boulevard, so I was new 0:07:27.320 --> 0:07:29.560 to the Los Angeles. I lived to ours from a 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.960 stop light in Australia, so I knew of a coffee 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:35.400 being on Santa Marnica Boulevard. I went there and I 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.680 waited for Greg for like fifteen minutes, and then I figured, 0:07:37.720 --> 0:07:40.800 oh I should I should call and see where he is. Well, 0:07:40.800 --> 0:07:43.440 he was at the coffee being on Santa Monica, just 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:47.520 about ten miles away. So I showed up for the 0:07:47.560 --> 0:07:49.960 meeting about forty five minutes late. But Greg's all right. 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:53.200 So yeah, we hung out and that's my first meeting 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:57.200 with Greg. And did and then did you wait or 0:07:57.240 --> 0:08:00.240 were you? Were? You hired pretty quickly after that, hired 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.480 pretty quickly after that. I think in that initial conversation, 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:07.080 like I I, I referred to the office as a 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.040 tofu hot dog, and I remember Greg kind of latched 0:08:10.080 --> 0:08:12.160 onto that. I think he liked it. But what what 0:08:12.280 --> 0:08:15.920 it meant to me is it's it's good food wrapped 0:08:16.000 --> 0:08:18.960 like chunk food. So you had you had to always 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.640 kind of dissect it and kind of, you know, put 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:25.560 it in a a veneer, and you're always putting it 0:08:25.640 --> 0:08:29.160 under a veneer of something just caught or just just leaned, 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.560 or shoot it on a long lens, so it appears 0:08:31.600 --> 0:08:35.320 to be privileged information, which is extra juicy for the viewer. Right. 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.040 We talked a lot about what I thought it should 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.400 look like because I really came from a documentary world, 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.640 and um, it always feels false to me when I 0:08:42.640 --> 0:08:45.120 see a camera right next to people who are having 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:48.920 a very intimate conversation. And I told Greg, I think 0:08:48.960 --> 0:08:51.240 that that camera should be a very very long way 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:54.600 away so that the viewers really leaning in they feel 0:08:54.640 --> 0:08:56.920 privileged by it, They feel like it feels it reads 0:08:56.920 --> 0:08:59.560 more honest if it's camera is a long way away 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:01.960 as post to its just being right there, because people 0:09:02.000 --> 0:09:04.520 would have an awareness of that camera and it's subliminal, 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:07.439 but to me it makes sense. Ken Kappas talked to 0:09:07.480 --> 0:09:11.079 me a little bit about having to work for a shot, 0:09:11.120 --> 0:09:13.920 that he didn't want the camera necessarily in the right 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:18.920 place to get the perfect set up television shot, that 0:09:19.040 --> 0:09:21.000 if there was a filing cabinet in the way, or 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:22.600 if there was a pillar in the way, that that 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:24.760 was actually a good thing that the camera had to 0:09:24.800 --> 0:09:27.280 work to find it. Yeah, Einstein said, in the midst 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:30.600 of difficulty lies opportunity, And I think that what we 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:32.600 did on the Office, like when we build the first 0:09:32.640 --> 0:09:35.840 season we shot on you know, in J. J. Abrams office, 0:09:36.200 --> 0:09:39.040 there was a real office with real doors and real 0:09:39.120 --> 0:09:42.960 low ceilings and real everything, and everything was difficult, and 0:09:43.120 --> 0:09:46.079 every single thing that made it more difficult made it 0:09:46.120 --> 0:09:48.360 better because you had to work for it, and it 0:09:48.400 --> 0:09:51.040 made it seem more real. So we were always putting 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:53.640 stuff in the way, and you know, making it the 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:56.800 more inconvenient was the more real and grounded it felt, 0:09:56.840 --> 0:09:58.920 which I think allowed the comedy to go a little 0:09:58.920 --> 0:10:01.760 bit further because the more grounded the look of it, 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:05.479 maybe you can push things a little bit more comedically. 0:10:06.440 --> 0:10:11.080 I remember, Um, you shooting constantly and being like, yeah, 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:13.400 I think this shot is too pretty, and you would 0:10:13.440 --> 0:10:16.000 just pull you yourself would just pull the plant over 0:10:16.360 --> 0:10:18.480 so there would be some leaves in the corner of 0:10:18.520 --> 0:10:21.199 the screen. Again like trying to block it, trying to 0:10:21.240 --> 0:10:23.040 look trying to be hidden as if we were, you know, 0:10:23.200 --> 0:10:26.079 gleaning something that we were privileged to see. You know, 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:27.840 we did that out all the time on Survivor if 0:10:28.080 --> 0:10:30.480 people are having a conversation just back way up the beach, 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:33.600 and it makes it feel more real. Um. I remember 0:10:33.600 --> 0:10:36.319 when we moved out of JJ's office and we built 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:38.600 and on a stage. We had like a I don't know, 0:10:38.640 --> 0:10:41.800 a thirty thousand square foot stage. We and we built 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:44.320 this office. And normally in normal television shows, they would 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:46.760 they would make the walls so that they could fly away, 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:49.120 and they would make everything so you could shoot through. 0:10:49.280 --> 0:10:50.800 You know, you can pull a wall away and shoot 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.160 put the camera there easily. And we didn't do any 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:56.040 of that. Everything that made it more difficult made it better. 0:10:56.559 --> 0:10:59.719 And it's I think we owe it all to Einstein. 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:04.360 In the midst of difficulty lies opportunity. I think that's brilliant. 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:06.199 But that was he said it in German. It didn't 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:11.040 sound as lyrical m hm instinctment. I don't know what 0:11:11.120 --> 0:11:14.439 it is, but oh you bring out your German. Yeah, 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:18.880 if I sneak, That's all I can say. Really. Um So, 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:21.319 the only thing that was changed from the practical office 0:11:21.320 --> 0:11:23.720 space too when we set up on the sound stage, 0:11:23.760 --> 0:11:26.760 because we wanted the whole uh dimensions and everything to 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.360 be the same. Wasn't there like a nine inches increased 0:11:29.400 --> 0:11:31.480 in the conference room or something like that. I think 0:11:31.760 --> 0:11:34.520 I think we made the conference room like nine inches wider, 0:11:34.760 --> 0:11:36.520 and we made the kitchen like a foot and a 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:40.520 half wider, okay, just to try to get your ass 0:11:40.520 --> 0:11:43.720 in the corner, just because I'm not a small ass, 0:11:43.760 --> 0:11:45.440 just to try to get it as far into the 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.040 corner to shoot that, you know, exactly. And the kitchen 0:11:49.160 --> 0:11:52.640 was still really really really hard to shoot, and you know, 0:11:52.640 --> 0:11:55.040 I had all these reflective surfaces all all over it. 0:11:55.040 --> 0:11:57.440 I think we made the doors like four inches higher 0:11:57.880 --> 0:11:59.360 because I don't know if you remember, we were we 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:03.160 boomed the whole show, which was crazy but but really 0:12:03.200 --> 0:12:05.760 worth it. And the camera would go in and the 0:12:05.800 --> 0:12:09.760 cameras I'm six five and the camera was like another 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:13.720 I'm five ten. I thought you'd pick up on that. Anyway, 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:17.120 you think of me at six five, right, six five? 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.240 That's how I think of myself too. Anyway, Um, you 0:12:22.240 --> 0:12:24.640 know I'm five ten and the camera would be another 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.560 you know, four inches above my head and then and 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.680 then the boom would come in the room over my head. 0:12:31.760 --> 0:12:34.000 So we had all the you know, entering a room 0:12:34.040 --> 0:12:38.400 was always a an adventure. So we we tried to 0:12:38.400 --> 0:12:42.080 shoot the office as cruthful as possible, and there were rules. 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:46.840 For instance, we could not show where another camera was 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:51.079 because that would that would give up the lie like 0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:53.360 in in other words, if some if a camera is 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:57.520 standing in a doorway, um, and another character comes to 0:12:57.600 --> 0:12:59.960 that doorway and I'm over the shoulder of that character, 0:13:00.520 --> 0:13:04.800 we would never show that character standing in that doorway 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.320 because there should be another camera there. So we would 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.079 never show a big wide shot of a room. That 0:13:11.240 --> 0:13:14.480 is completely conventional in all television. You would see the 0:13:14.520 --> 0:13:17.880 wide and then you would see the tights, and within 0:13:18.000 --> 0:13:23.000 that wide there should have been cameras inside the right. 0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:25.400 If it's a documentary, if Steve standing at his office 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:29.840 and someone is filming Steve and then we cut, we 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:32.480 go back and then we have a camera that's shooting 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:35.040 over Steve to the rest of the of of the 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.080 people in the bullpen watching, you should see a camera 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.760 man standing behind them. Yeah. And the rule that we 0:13:41.800 --> 0:13:44.320 came up with is if it could have possibly been 0:13:44.320 --> 0:13:49.080 done by being really skilled verity documentary cameraman, we could 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:53.720 do it. If not, we shouldn't do it right. Um. 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:56.920 And so we always we always tried to figure out 0:13:56.920 --> 0:13:59.760 another way of doing it. And I think that that 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.199 made it cooler. It made it made it so much 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:07.400 more challenging and and more interesting. But we had rules. 0:14:07.520 --> 0:14:10.360 We had rules that we would not break. Did you 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.880 ever catch a camera man. We would whip through each 0:14:13.880 --> 0:14:16.760 other at times, but we would hope that you would 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:20.840 never use the take where we whipped through each other. Um. 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:23.360 But we would also just duck and Matt would know 0:14:23.440 --> 0:14:25.280 that I have to duck down, or I would he 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.480 would duck down when I'm whipping through him. You remember 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.480 one of your favorite examples of doing that. There are 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:34.960 so many. We were always we were always hiding. We 0:14:34.960 --> 0:14:37.040 were always hiding from each other because we were shooting 0:14:37.040 --> 0:14:39.800 three sixty. Which is a tricky thing about lighting that set, 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:42.760 is that we were just using the fluorescent lights to 0:14:42.840 --> 0:14:45.360 make these scoops, these light scoops to send out a 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:49.680 soft wash. Um, I don't wait, say that again, these 0:14:49.800 --> 0:14:52.720 light scoops to send out a soft wash. So we 0:14:52.760 --> 0:14:56.000 had these, that is, say that again. We had these. 0:14:56.040 --> 0:14:59.240 We made these milar box these boxes out of cardboard 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.320 with milar inside of them and a piece of diffusion. 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:05.320 You would stick that my large that you'd stick that 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.200 box on a light and that's the light that would 0:15:08.320 --> 0:15:10.680 send out a nice soft wash to the rest of 0:15:10.680 --> 0:15:13.400 the room. But not on a fluorescence. We weren't really 0:15:13.480 --> 0:15:19.800 using fluorescence. We were really using fluorescence. Yeah, unbelievable. Get 0:15:19.840 --> 0:15:22.840 you fired from other shows, Well that's that's what you're 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:26.240 supposed to do on our show. Do whatever would get 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:28.280 you fired on other shows. I didn't know any better. 0:15:28.360 --> 0:15:50.400 Sound It all worked out, you know. There were so 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:55.320 many things that were done to create this ultra reality 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.960 and working conditions that we're not on the outside pleasant. 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.320 We were stuck in that room. We were there all 0:16:02.400 --> 0:16:08.080 day long, camera moving around, which really the other potentially 0:16:08.120 --> 0:16:11.000 most important character and the whole show was the camera 0:16:11.040 --> 0:16:14.680 itself in terms of creating that family and everybody there. 0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.640 It was the camera, guys and one boom operator. We 0:16:18.640 --> 0:16:21.080 were all in there together. We were just you know, 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:23.440 fitting in where you could get in. I mean, because 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:25.400 so so much of that place was not not an 0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.440 easy place to move and it wasn't convenient, But it 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:31.120 was awesome, I mean, being able to work all that out, 0:16:31.240 --> 0:16:35.320 and you know, having come from a cinema verite style, 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:38.800 documentary style. While I had done a shameful amount of 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:42.480 reality TV, it wasn't my flavor of choice. It was 0:16:42.520 --> 0:16:45.640 just something I had done. So I was really used 0:16:45.680 --> 0:16:47.440 to just trying to fit in where we could get in, 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:51.680 and like you know, the other operator and then DP 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:54.400 and then director of the show, Matt Son. We had 0:16:54.400 --> 0:16:56.800 shot a bunch of reality gun together. You know, they 0:16:56.800 --> 0:17:00.720 talk about the line when you know the line is is, 0:17:01.120 --> 0:17:03.040 and cameras want to be on one side of the 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.040 line or another. They don't want to be on either 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.639 side of the line because one person's face will be 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:10.400 looking left to right, and you want the person they're 0:17:10.440 --> 0:17:13.960 talking to face to be looking right to left. If 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.159 you're on the wrong side of the line, you'll end 0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:18.360 up with two people looking left to right and it 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:20.960 won't look like they're having a conversation. So we always 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:23.800 paid a lot of tension to the line. But it's 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:26.200 also that one thing that we just kind of were 0:17:26.400 --> 0:17:29.480 so versed in because you have to be when you're 0:17:29.520 --> 0:17:32.879 telling a story that is truly caught, that line comes 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:37.320 very naturally. So blocking scenes was a blast, and it 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:39.560 was so much fun just Matt and I just looking 0:17:39.600 --> 0:17:43.520 at each other and the boom boom person operator looking 0:17:43.560 --> 0:17:47.560 at us like, Okay, where do I go? Um? And 0:17:48.000 --> 0:17:51.359 that's not my problem, right because you're a sound guy, right, 0:17:51.920 --> 0:17:54.320 But a ton you bring up a great point that 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:59.240 a ton of our rehearsal time was really about not 0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:04.080 block of actors, but blocking of the cameras and and 0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:06.880 in every show you you have to, you know, figure 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:09.199 out where the camera is and how it's moving. But 0:18:09.280 --> 0:18:11.840 the intricacies of that to make sure that you could 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:15.800 capture the action was truly masterful. Well we I think 0:18:15.840 --> 0:18:18.320 we spend a lot we spent a lot less time 0:18:18.480 --> 0:18:23.000 on that on the office, blocking, blocking camera and blocking. 0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:25.439 You know, for me, the best way of of gleaning 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.199 a scene on the office was everybody be what there 0:18:28.240 --> 0:18:30.520 would be, and I will shoot what I can. And 0:18:30.560 --> 0:18:32.200 that's kind of how we did it. And I remember 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.840 Harold Ramos came in and he everybody's so excited. Harold 0:18:36.880 --> 0:18:38.920 Ramos is all I said, Oh my god, Harold Ramos. 0:18:39.800 --> 0:18:42.680 And he spent like a week extra just blocking the show. 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.960 And there was a point where, you know, the rehearsal 0:18:47.040 --> 0:18:48.359 was done, and he had a theory of how it 0:18:48.359 --> 0:18:51.040 would be blocked, and you know, Matt and I just 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.239 kind of stood back and used our fingers as if 0:18:53.240 --> 0:18:55.560 they were cameras and you get this. I'll get this great, 0:18:55.560 --> 0:18:57.760 We'll cross the line here, We'll come over there, I 0:18:57.800 --> 0:18:59.560 will come around here. You know, need duck because I'm 0:18:59.640 --> 0:19:02.200 zooming for you to get this line, and I'll duck 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:05.280 from udis him through. And Harold looked at me and 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:09.240 he says, I should just throw my plans out right. 0:19:09.800 --> 0:19:12.480 I'm like, no, Mr Ramas. It's a real privilege sort 0:19:12.520 --> 0:19:14.240 of that is so happy to here. I'm sure that 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.560 all that work you did in there with graces and 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.560 this is okay. I'll keep it for a little bit. 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:20.800 And then we just blocked another scene because I should 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:23.480 chuck this out right. I'm like, no, Mr Ramas, it's 0:19:23.480 --> 0:19:26.199 really great to see you coming away in with with 0:19:26.240 --> 0:19:28.479 a plan. He's don't ship me kid, I should get 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.240 rid of this. I'm like, well, you could keep it 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:40.280 his back up. Oh my gosh, that is amazing. Yeah. Well, 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.080 one of the things that um, one of the things 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:48.240 that Ken mentioned was that actually in traditional documentaries you 0:19:48.400 --> 0:19:52.439 don't see that whip pan that. Um there was some 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:57.679 discussion slash argument early on about people not wanting to 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:02.600 include that. But you know, he like that on television, 0:20:03.160 --> 0:20:08.479 that that those visual cues of of messiness was was 0:20:08.560 --> 0:20:11.040 really important. Did you feel the same way. Yeah, I remember, 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:13.679 like I just watched an earlier episode of the Office, 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:16.280 and my god, the camera work because outstanding was the 0:20:16.320 --> 0:20:18.879 one one thing I took away. But um, you know, 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:22.239 it's kind of insistent that if if somebody would, you know, 0:20:22.480 --> 0:20:25.840 like if Michael was wanted to close his office door, 0:20:26.400 --> 0:20:29.920 the persistence of the camera and it's like, no, I'm 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:32.160 gonna look through the blinds, Okay, you close the blinds, Okay, 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:34.040 I'm gonna come around of these and I'm gonna get in, 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:38.760 and just it just made it feel more delicious and 0:20:38.840 --> 0:20:42.280 that that the camera was nosy and it was really 0:20:43.040 --> 0:20:45.040 was not relenting. It wasn't going to give you the 0:20:45.040 --> 0:20:47.200 space it might let you think you have the space 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:49.520 to go have a private moment, but it probably had 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:53.080 another angle on you anyway. But that but that's what 0:20:53.160 --> 0:20:56.840 I mean about the camera being a character itself, that 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:02.080 it was an active participant in the action. Yeah, it's certainly, 0:21:02.119 --> 0:21:05.200 you know, I definitely feel like the camera was was 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.199 a character in the show. And some of the some 0:21:07.320 --> 0:21:10.640 of the best direction I ever got from directors was 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:14.919 the type of direction you would give an actor. You 0:21:14.960 --> 0:21:21.080 feel this, You're you're worried about this, you're curious about that, 0:21:21.680 --> 0:21:24.280 but you know this, and it was kind of a 0:21:24.320 --> 0:21:26.199 similar type of direction you'd give an actor, And that 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:29.679 was some of the best you know, um inspiration as 0:21:29.720 --> 0:21:32.520 a camera like to that that the camera always had 0:21:32.520 --> 0:21:34.920 a point of view, It had an agenda, It had 0:21:34.920 --> 0:21:38.160 its own stories it wanted to tell, regardless of what 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:40.960 the characters in the show wanted to tell. That was 0:21:40.960 --> 0:21:43.240 the thing that I was the most proud of, I 0:21:43.280 --> 0:21:47.960 think of everything in the show, how much care and 0:21:48.240 --> 0:21:54.800 thought was put into the camera, and not just their attitude, 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.760 but the camera as it related to the other characters 0:22:00.000 --> 0:22:03.919 in the space. Every single scene, there was always a 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:08.120 decision made, and I'm tremendously proud of that and you're 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:11.159 working that. Thank you. Yeah, it was. It was so 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.720 much fun. I mean I remember doing scenes, and I 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:16.719 think that at any different time, the camera would have 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.920 a different relationship with the characters, just like another character 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:23.119 would have a different relationship with a character. Like I 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:27.000 would look at Jenna and I would you know, Jenna 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.280 would smile and I would smile back. I just could 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:32.760 not not. Um, you know, at times I think I 0:22:32.880 --> 0:22:38.680 was probably somebody who is invasive to Michael Scott's privacy. 0:22:38.800 --> 0:22:41.320 Or when you caught Michael Scott in an embarrassing moment 0:22:41.400 --> 0:22:45.240 and he really wishes you weren't there. Um, that's where 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:47.560 I think so much of the fun is. Or when 0:22:47.840 --> 0:22:50.440 Rain thinks he's gonna he's gonna pull one over on Jim, 0:22:50.480 --> 0:22:52.280 and you just kind of like, Okay, I'm gonna go 0:22:52.320 --> 0:22:54.200 along with this with you because it'll be fun and 0:22:54.240 --> 0:22:58.040 it'll make a great TV story. So yeah, you had. 0:22:58.119 --> 0:23:01.439