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Speaker 1: My name is Randoline Horn. I was the director of

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Speaker 1: photography on the Office and sometimes Director of the Office.

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Speaker 1: Hello everybody, thanks for joining us back here on the

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Speaker 1: Office Deep Dive. As always, I am your host, Brian Baumgartner.

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Speaker 1: Now today we have such a treat for you. This episode,

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Speaker 1: al right, is the beginning of a kind of mini series,

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Speaker 1: a deep dive within the Deep dive, if you will,

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Speaker 1: about the camera on the Office, specifically the camera as

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Speaker 1: a character. As I have said many times, the thing

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Speaker 1: that I am most proud of about the Office is

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Speaker 1: the attention to detail about the camera. Every shot was

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Speaker 1: meticulously thought out to make it feel like a real document.

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Speaker 1: In every scene we shot, there was always a conversation

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Speaker 1: about the cameras angle, the way that it moved, and

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Speaker 1: the intention of the camera. And so who better to

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Speaker 1: talk about all of this than the guy who shot it,

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Speaker 1: the guy who was holding the camera, Randall Einhorn. Now

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Speaker 1: I love Randall's story. Okay, I'm not gonna give it away,

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Speaker 1: but let me just say that he started out as

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Speaker 1: a river guide deep in Australia might down Under into wilderness,

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Speaker 1: and and then he ended up as dep of the Office.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible and even though Randall is this like adventurer,

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Speaker 1: e outdoorsman guy who'd rather sleep in dirt than a bed,

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Speaker 1: he is also the sweetest guy that you'll ever meet.

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Speaker 1: And he and I have spent many a night at

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Speaker 1: his home, which used to be an ash ram, drinking wine,

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Speaker 1: looking at the stars and talking about life and the

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Speaker 1: things that are really important. And as you'll hear momentarily,

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Speaker 1: he still holds what we did on the office as

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Speaker 1: something truly special. Folks, there may be some tears today. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying who's but you're gonna find out soon enough.

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Speaker 1: So please welcome the man behind the camera, Randall Einhorn,

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Speaker 1: Bubble and squeak. I love it. Bubble and squeak, Bubble

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Speaker 1: and squeaker, cookie, every moment left over from the Natbyle.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know how it is here you're over there.

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Speaker 1: It's just been crazy. I just came up for air myself.

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Speaker 1: I just I did a pilot for HBO Max that

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Speaker 1: I just finished shooting on Friday. You know, pilot. It's

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Speaker 1: really good. Yeah, they're doing eight shows in the next

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Speaker 1: uh this thank you volumes on the left here, Okay,

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Speaker 1: no one has adjusted the volume yet I'm going to

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Speaker 1: it's on the left. You watch me if I get

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Speaker 1: too much of you. I just just did this on

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Speaker 1: the left. Nothing nothing at all? Can hear it at all?

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Speaker 1: I can hear you now. I turned it back out.

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Speaker 1: Less it. Um. So it's HBO. Max got eighty new

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Speaker 1: shows that they're doing next year, and mine was I

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Speaker 1: hope one of them. Have you seen Launch forty nine? No? Um,

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Speaker 1: I mean unless that makes me sound dumb, and then

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Speaker 1: yes I have, but I don't remember much about it.

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Speaker 1: Remind me you haven't seen it. Nobody watched it. It

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Speaker 1: was an hour on a MC. This feels weird talking

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Speaker 1: to you looking at you with through the microphone and

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Speaker 1: the headphones. Why we're just having your chat? Um? What

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Speaker 1: do you do lodge for you? I did the pilot

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Speaker 1: for that on AMC and that was an hour and

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Speaker 1: it was on just after A Better Call Saul. Here's

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Speaker 1: my issue. AMC is just confusing to me, and I'll

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Speaker 1: tell you why. The reason is, they do remarkable shows,

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Speaker 1: but I never understand when it's things are on right,

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Speaker 1: So I just eventually, but I'm the schmuck that like

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Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, shoot, better call Saul has had four

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Speaker 1: episodes and then I go buy them on Amazon or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So I'm I'm I guess I'm contributing to their bottom certainly,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. Maybe they ushul do it for

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Speaker 1: lodge by it. Um. Alright, So now you're a big

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Speaker 1: time Hollywood director, super big time, really big time. If

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Speaker 1: I can draw randall IONHRN super big, super big, super big.

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Speaker 1: Does anyone ask you like, oh, is this your production company?

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Speaker 1: And You're like, no, I'm just super big time times

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Speaker 1: a super big time. I actually have a production company

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Speaker 1: name finally, because I have I sold three pilots this year. Um.

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Speaker 1: Sad Unicorn. Sad Unicorn, Yeah, because the iron horn is

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Speaker 1: a unicorn, and why is it sad? Because it's funny

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Speaker 1: when a unicorn is sad? Right, that might be the

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Speaker 1: best production company name that I've ever heard. Sad Unicorn. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I will say, I don't know why. The only other

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Speaker 1: name that is popping into my head that that I

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Speaker 1: think can compete with Sad Unicorn is bad Robot. I

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Speaker 1: think that Bad Robot that's a really good that's a

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Speaker 1: really good one. I also thought about Misery Loves Company.

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Speaker 1: There you go, that sounds like a game show. CEO

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Speaker 1: on the end you have Alright, I'm gonna say that

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Speaker 1: I was about to compliment you, but I don't. I

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Speaker 1: don't feel I don't feel quiet. Um now I don't.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel quite ready. Um all right, So now

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Speaker 1: you're this big time, super big, super big, super big

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Speaker 1: time sorry, super big time, um writer, producer. What were

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Speaker 1: you doing prior to the years two thousand and five

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Speaker 1: ish four ish five ish? What were what were you

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Speaker 1: working on? Then? So I came in. The reason I

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Speaker 1: got to the office is I was depeeing some extreme

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Speaker 1: sports stuff, snowboarding with Seawan White and Jeremy Jones who

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Speaker 1: are snowboarders, and Jackson Hole and Ben Silverman decided that

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Speaker 1: I was the guy to shoot the office because I

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Speaker 1: can shoot outdoor extreme sports. So therefore you should shoot

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Speaker 1: the office because you've I mean, I came from outdoor

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Speaker 1: adventure sports. I came from the Eco Challenge, and then

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Speaker 1: I was a DP on Survivor as well the whole

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Speaker 1: time the first season of Survivor, the first season I

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Speaker 1: did be the first one, and then I ended up

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Speaker 1: you know, being operator on six More Wow. So I

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Speaker 1: came from outdoor adventure pursuits and then I ended up

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Speaker 1: in a fluorescent uh office? Right? And did you work

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Speaker 1: with Ben? How did you know Ben? Because Ben came

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Speaker 1: to Jackson Hole while I was shooting this extreme sports

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Speaker 1: stuff and decided I was the guy. And so he

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Speaker 1: went to Greg and said, this is our guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is our guy. And Greg and I said a

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Speaker 1: meeting to meet at a coffee being near here, which

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Speaker 1: is on Santa Monica Boulevard. And I knew of a

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Speaker 1: coffee being on Santa Monica Boulevard, so I was new

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Speaker 1: to the Los Angeles. I lived to ours from a

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Speaker 1: stop light in Australia, so I knew of a coffee

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Speaker 1: being on Santa Marnica Boulevard. I went there and I

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Speaker 1: waited for Greg for like fifteen minutes, and then I figured,

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Speaker 1: oh I should I should call and see where he is. Well,

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Speaker 1: he was at the coffee being on Santa Monica, just

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Speaker 1: about ten miles away. So I showed up for the

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Speaker 1: meeting about forty five minutes late. But Greg's all right.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, we hung out and that's my first meeting

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Speaker 1: with Greg. And did and then did you wait or

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Speaker 1: were you? Were? You hired pretty quickly after that, hired

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Speaker 1: pretty quickly after that. I think in that initial conversation,

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Speaker 1: like I I, I referred to the office as a

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Speaker 1: tofu hot dog, and I remember Greg kind of latched

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Speaker 1: onto that. I think he liked it. But what what

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Speaker 1: it meant to me is it's it's good food wrapped

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Speaker 1: like chunk food. So you had you had to always

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Speaker 1: kind of dissect it and kind of, you know, put

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Speaker 1: it in a a veneer, and you're always putting it

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Speaker 1: under a veneer of something just caught or just just leaned,

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Speaker 1: or shoot it on a long lens, so it appears

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Speaker 1: to be privileged information, which is extra juicy for the viewer. Right.

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Speaker 1: We talked a lot about what I thought it should

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Speaker 1: look like because I really came from a documentary world,

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Speaker 1: and um, it always feels false to me when I

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Speaker 1: see a camera right next to people who are having

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Speaker 1: a very intimate conversation. And I told Greg, I think

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Speaker 1: that that camera should be a very very long way

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Speaker 1: away so that the viewers really leaning in they feel

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Speaker 1: privileged by it, They feel like it feels it reads

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Speaker 1: more honest if it's camera is a long way away

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Speaker 1: as post to its just being right there, because people

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Speaker 1: would have an awareness of that camera and it's subliminal,

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Speaker 1: but to me it makes sense. Ken Kappas talked to

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Speaker 1: me a little bit about having to work for a shot,

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Speaker 1: that he didn't want the camera necessarily in the right

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Speaker 1: place to get the perfect set up television shot, that

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Speaker 1: if there was a filing cabinet in the way, or

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Speaker 1: if there was a pillar in the way, that that

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Speaker 1: was actually a good thing that the camera had to

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Speaker 1: work to find it. Yeah, Einstein said, in the midst

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Speaker 1: of difficulty lies opportunity, And I think that what we

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Speaker 1: did on the Office, like when we build the first

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Speaker 1: season we shot on you know, in J. J. Abrams office,

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Speaker 1: there was a real office with real doors and real

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Speaker 1: low ceilings and real everything, and everything was difficult, and

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Speaker 1: every single thing that made it more difficult made it

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Speaker 1: better because you had to work for it, and it

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Speaker 1: made it seem more real. So we were always putting

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Speaker 1: stuff in the way, and you know, making it the

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Speaker 1: more inconvenient was the more real and grounded it felt,

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Speaker 1: which I think allowed the comedy to go a little

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Speaker 1: bit further because the more grounded the look of it,

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Speaker 1: maybe you can push things a little bit more comedically.

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Speaker 1: I remember, Um, you shooting constantly and being like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think this shot is too pretty, and you would

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Speaker 1: just pull you yourself would just pull the plant over

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Speaker 1: so there would be some leaves in the corner of

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Speaker 1: the screen. Again like trying to block it, trying to

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Speaker 1: look trying to be hidden as if we were, you know,

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Speaker 1: gleaning something that we were privileged to see. You know,

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Speaker 1: we did that out all the time on Survivor if

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Speaker 1: people are having a conversation just back way up the beach,

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Speaker 1: and it makes it feel more real. Um. I remember

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Speaker 1: when we moved out of JJ's office and we built

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Speaker 1: and on a stage. We had like a I don't know,

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Speaker 1: a thirty thousand square foot stage. We and we built

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Speaker 1: this office. And normally in normal television shows, they would

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Speaker 1: they would make the walls so that they could fly away,

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Speaker 1: and they would make everything so you could shoot through.

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Speaker 1: You know, you can pull a wall away and shoot

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Speaker 1: put the camera there easily. And we didn't do any

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Speaker 1: of that. Everything that made it more difficult made it better.

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Speaker 1: And it's I think we owe it all to Einstein.

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Speaker 1: In the midst of difficulty lies opportunity. I think that's brilliant.

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Speaker 1: But that was he said it in German. It didn't

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Speaker 1: sound as lyrical m hm instinctment. I don't know what

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Speaker 1: it is, but oh you bring out your German. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: if I sneak, That's all I can say. Really. Um So,

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Speaker 1: the only thing that was changed from the practical office

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Speaker 1: space too when we set up on the sound stage,

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Speaker 1: because we wanted the whole uh dimensions and everything to

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Speaker 1: be the same. Wasn't there like a nine inches increased

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Speaker 1: in the conference room or something like that. I think

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Speaker 1: I think we made the conference room like nine inches wider,

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Speaker 1: and we made the kitchen like a foot and a

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Speaker 1: half wider, okay, just to try to get your ass

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Speaker 1: in the corner, just because I'm not a small ass,

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Speaker 1: just to try to get it as far into the

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Speaker 1: corner to shoot that, you know, exactly. And the kitchen

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Speaker 1: was still really really really hard to shoot, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I had all these reflective surfaces all all over it.

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Speaker 1: I think we made the doors like four inches higher

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Speaker 1: because I don't know if you remember, we were we

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Speaker 1: boomed the whole show, which was crazy but but really

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Speaker 1: worth it. And the camera would go in and the

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Speaker 1: cameras I'm six five and the camera was like another

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Speaker 1: I'm five ten. I thought you'd pick up on that. Anyway,

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Speaker 1: you think of me at six five, right, six five?

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Speaker 1: That's how I think of myself too. Anyway, Um, you

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Speaker 1: know I'm five ten and the camera would be another

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Speaker 1: you know, four inches above my head and then and

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Speaker 1: then the boom would come in the room over my head.

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Speaker 1: So we had all the you know, entering a room

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Speaker 1: was always a an adventure. So we we tried to

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Speaker 1: shoot the office as cruthful as possible, and there were rules.

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Speaker 1: For instance, we could not show where another camera was

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Speaker 1: because that would that would give up the lie like

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Speaker 1: in in other words, if some if a camera is

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Speaker 1: standing in a doorway, um, and another character comes to

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Speaker 1: that doorway and I'm over the shoulder of that character,

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Speaker 1: we would never show that character standing in that doorway

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Speaker 1: because there should be another camera there. So we would

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Speaker 1: never show a big wide shot of a room. That

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Speaker 1: is completely conventional in all television. You would see the

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Speaker 1: wide and then you would see the tights, and within

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Speaker 1: that wide there should have been cameras inside the right.

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Speaker 1: If it's a documentary, if Steve standing at his office

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Speaker 1: and someone is filming Steve and then we cut, we

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Speaker 1: go back and then we have a camera that's shooting

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Speaker 1: over Steve to the rest of the of of the

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Speaker 1: people in the bullpen watching, you should see a camera

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Speaker 1: man standing behind them. Yeah. And the rule that we

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Speaker 1: came up with is if it could have possibly been

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Speaker 1: done by being really skilled verity documentary cameraman, we could

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Speaker 1: do it. If not, we shouldn't do it right. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so we always we always tried to figure out

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Speaker 1: another way of doing it. And I think that that

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Speaker 1: made it cooler. It made it made it so much

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Speaker 1: more challenging and and more interesting. But we had rules.

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Speaker 1: We had rules that we would not break. Did you

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Speaker 1: ever catch a camera man. We would whip through each

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Speaker 1: other at times, but we would hope that you would

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Speaker 1: never use the take where we whipped through each other. Um.

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Speaker 1: But we would also just duck and Matt would know

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Speaker 1: that I have to duck down, or I would he

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Speaker 1: would duck down when I'm whipping through him. You remember

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Speaker 1: one of your favorite examples of doing that. There are

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Speaker 1: so many. We were always we were always hiding. We

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Speaker 1: were always hiding from each other because we were shooting

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Speaker 1: three sixty. Which is a tricky thing about lighting that set,

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Speaker 1: is that we were just using the fluorescent lights to

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Speaker 1: make these scoops, these light scoops to send out a

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Speaker 1: soft wash. Um, I don't wait, say that again, these

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Speaker 1: light scoops to send out a soft wash. So we

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Speaker 1: had these, that is, say that again. We had these.

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Speaker 1: We made these milar box these boxes out of cardboard

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Speaker 1: with milar inside of them and a piece of diffusion.

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Speaker 1: You would stick that my large that you'd stick that

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Speaker 1: box on a light and that's the light that would

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Speaker 1: send out a nice soft wash to the rest of

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Speaker 1: the room. But not on a fluorescence. We weren't really

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Speaker 1: using fluorescence. We were really using fluorescence. Yeah, unbelievable. Get

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Speaker 1: you fired from other shows, Well that's that's what you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to do on our show. Do whatever would get

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Speaker 1: you fired on other shows. I didn't know any better.

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Speaker 1: Sound It all worked out, you know. There were so

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Speaker 1: many things that were done to create this ultra reality

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Speaker 1: and working conditions that we're not on the outside pleasant.

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Speaker 1: We were stuck in that room. We were there all

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Speaker 1: day long, camera moving around, which really the other potentially

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Speaker 1: most important character and the whole show was the camera

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Speaker 1: itself in terms of creating that family and everybody there.

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Speaker 1: It was the camera, guys and one boom operator. We

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Speaker 1: were all in there together. We were just you know,

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Speaker 1: fitting in where you could get in. I mean, because

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Speaker 1: so so much of that place was not not an

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Speaker 1: easy place to move and it wasn't convenient, But it

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Speaker 1: was awesome, I mean, being able to work all that out,

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Speaker 1: and you know, having come from a cinema verite style,

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Speaker 1: documentary style. While I had done a shameful amount of

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Speaker 1: reality TV, it wasn't my flavor of choice. It was

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Speaker 1: just something I had done. So I was really used

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Speaker 1: to just trying to fit in where we could get in,

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Speaker 1: and like you know, the other operator and then DP

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Speaker 1: and then director of the show, Matt Son. We had

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Speaker 1: shot a bunch of reality gun together. You know, they

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Speaker 1: talk about the line when you know the line is is,

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Speaker 1: and cameras want to be on one side of the

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Speaker 1: line or another. They don't want to be on either

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Speaker 1: side of the line because one person's face will be

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Speaker 1: looking left to right, and you want the person they're

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Speaker 1: talking to face to be looking right to left. If

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Speaker 1: you're on the wrong side of the line, you'll end

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Speaker 1: up with two people looking left to right and it

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Speaker 1: won't look like they're having a conversation. So we always

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Speaker 1: paid a lot of tension to the line. But it's

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Speaker 1: also that one thing that we just kind of were

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Speaker 1: so versed in because you have to be when you're

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Speaker 1: telling a story that is truly caught, that line comes

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Speaker 1: very naturally. So blocking scenes was a blast, and it

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Speaker 1: was so much fun just Matt and I just looking

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Speaker 1: at each other and the boom boom person operator looking

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Speaker 1: at us like, Okay, where do I go? Um? And

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Speaker 1: that's not my problem, right because you're a sound guy, right,

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Speaker 1: But a ton you bring up a great point that

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Speaker 1: a ton of our rehearsal time was really about not

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Speaker 1: block of actors, but blocking of the cameras and and

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Speaker 1: in every show you you have to, you know, figure

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Speaker 1: out where the camera is and how it's moving. But

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Speaker 1: the intricacies of that to make sure that you could

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Speaker 1: capture the action was truly masterful. Well we I think

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Speaker 1: we spend a lot we spent a lot less time

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Speaker 1: on that on the office, blocking, blocking camera and blocking.

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Speaker 1: You know, for me, the best way of of gleaning

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Speaker 1: a scene on the office was everybody be what there

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Speaker 1: would be, and I will shoot what I can. And

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Speaker 1: that's kind of how we did it. And I remember

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Speaker 1: Harold Ramos came in and he everybody's so excited. Harold

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Speaker 1: Ramos is all I said, Oh my god, Harold Ramos.

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Speaker 1: And he spent like a week extra just blocking the show.

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Speaker 1: And there was a point where, you know, the rehearsal

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Speaker 1: was done, and he had a theory of how it

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Speaker 1: would be blocked, and you know, Matt and I just

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Speaker 1: kind of stood back and used our fingers as if

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Speaker 1: they were cameras and you get this. I'll get this great,

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Speaker 1: We'll cross the line here, We'll come over there, I

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Speaker 1: will come around here. You know, need duck because I'm

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Speaker 1: zooming for you to get this line, and I'll duck

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Speaker 1: from udis him through. And Harold looked at me and

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Speaker 1: he says, I should just throw my plans out right.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, no, Mr Ramas. It's a real privilege sort

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Speaker 1: of that is so happy to here. I'm sure that

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Speaker 1: all that work you did in there with graces and

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Speaker 1: this is okay. I'll keep it for a little bit.

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Speaker 1: And then we just blocked another scene because I should

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Speaker 1: chuck this out right. I'm like, no, Mr Ramas, it's

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Speaker 1: really great to see you coming away in with with

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Speaker 1: a plan. He's don't ship me kid, I should get

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Speaker 1: rid of this. I'm like, well, you could keep it

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Speaker 1: his back up. Oh my gosh, that is amazing. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: one of the things that um, one of the things

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Speaker 1: that Ken mentioned was that actually in traditional documentaries you

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Speaker 1: don't see that whip pan that. Um there was some

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Speaker 1: discussion slash argument early on about people not wanting to

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Speaker 1: include that. But you know, he like that on television,

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Speaker 1: that that those visual cues of of messiness was was

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Speaker 1: really important. Did you feel the same way. Yeah, I remember,

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Speaker 1: like I just watched an earlier episode of the Office,

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Speaker 1: and my god, the camera work because outstanding was the

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Speaker 1: one one thing I took away. But um, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of insistent that if if somebody would, you know,

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Speaker 1: like if Michael was wanted to close his office door,

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Speaker 1: the persistence of the camera and it's like, no, I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna look through the blinds, Okay, you close the blinds, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna come around of these and I'm gonna get in,

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Speaker 1: and just it just made it feel more delicious and

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Speaker 1: that that the camera was nosy and it was really

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Speaker 1: was not relenting. It wasn't going to give you the

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Speaker 1: space it might let you think you have the space

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Speaker 1: to go have a private moment, but it probably had

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Speaker 1: another angle on you anyway. But that but that's what

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Speaker 1: I mean about the camera being a character itself, that

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Speaker 1: it was an active participant in the action. Yeah, it's certainly,

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Speaker 1: you know, I definitely feel like the camera was was

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Speaker 1: a character in the show. And some of the some

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Speaker 1: of the best direction I ever got from directors was

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Speaker 1: the type of direction you would give an actor. You

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Speaker 1: feel this, You're you're worried about this, you're curious about that,

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Speaker 1: but you know this, and it was kind of a

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Speaker 1: similar type of direction you'd give an actor, And that

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Speaker 1: was some of the best you know, um inspiration as

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Speaker 1: a camera like to that that the camera always had

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Speaker 1: a point of view, It had an agenda, It had

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Speaker 1: its own stories it wanted to tell, regardless of what

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Speaker 1: the characters in the show wanted to tell. That was

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Speaker 1: the thing that I was the most proud of, I

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Speaker 1: think of everything in the show, how much care and

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Speaker 1: thought was put into the camera, and not just their attitude,

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Speaker 1: but the camera as it related to the other characters

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Speaker 1: in the space. Every single scene, there was always a

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Speaker 1: decision made, and I'm tremendously proud of that and you're

385
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Speaker 1: working that. Thank you. Yeah, it was. It was so

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Speaker 1: much fun. I mean I remember doing scenes, and I

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Speaker 1: think that at any different time, the camera would have

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Speaker 1: a different relationship with the characters, just like another character

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Speaker 1: would have a different relationship with a character. Like I

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Speaker 1: would look at Jenna and I would you know, Jenna

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Speaker 1: would smile and I would smile back. I just could

392
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Speaker 1: not not. Um, you know, at times I think I

393
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:38,680
Speaker 1: was probably somebody who is invasive to Michael Scott's privacy.

394
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Speaker 1: Or when you caught Michael Scott in an embarrassing moment

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Speaker 1: and he really wishes you weren't there. Um, that's where

396
00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:47,560
Speaker 1: I think so much of the fun is. Or when

397
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,440
Speaker 1: Rain thinks he's gonna he's gonna pull one over on Jim,

398
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:52,280
Speaker 1: and you just kind of like, Okay, I'm gonna go

399
00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:54,200
Speaker 1: along with this with you because it'll be fun and

400
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 1: it'll make a great TV story. So yeah, you had.

401
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Speaker 1: It definitely felt like I had relationship with everybody on

402
00:23:01,480 --> 00:23:05,120
Speaker 1: that show. Yeah, and the you just brought us something

403
00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:07,480
Speaker 1: that I hadn't had sort of forgotten about or hadn't

404
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,600
Speaker 1: thought about how significant it was. But on most television shows,

405
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,439
Speaker 1: as an actor, when you're shooting it the camera. The

406
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:17,960
Speaker 1: person who's operating the camera is typically very dead faced,

407
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: often just looking into the lens or having their head

408
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,320
Speaker 1: down or sort of turned away, and the sort of

409
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Speaker 1: traditional um, you know, that's just sort of traditionally how

410
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 1: it's done because you're attempting to not distract the actor

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Speaker 1: from whatever they're saying, whether it's serious or dramatic or

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00:23:35,119 --> 00:23:39,399
Speaker 1: funny or whatever. But you would laugh, like you would

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00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:44,160
Speaker 1: specifically as the camera laugh and interact with the action

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Speaker 1: that's going on. And that's so rare and also helpful

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00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:51,040
Speaker 1: most of the time, probably really unprofessional. Well no, but

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Speaker 1: I think no, but I think that was part of it.

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00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,880
Speaker 1: I mean I think it actually we talk about the

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Speaker 1: camera as the character, but it really was you. I mean,

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Speaker 1: it really was the operator of the camera who was

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00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: that character, much like you know the quote unquote documentarian

421
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:11,520
Speaker 1: who was usually the director who was asking questions during

422
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:14,440
Speaker 1: the talking. That's fascinating. I never thought about that before,

423
00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 1: but you're laughing, and total lack of professionalism was actually

424
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:22,439
Speaker 1: can benefit. It's unbelievable that in the terrible lighting, I

425
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:26,320
Speaker 1: do the terrible lighting right, and I don't know, you know,

426
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 1: for me, form follows function. The fact that you're the

427
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: camera has a point of view and it's really trying

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Speaker 1: to discover things, and it has its own agenda that

429
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 1: informs why that show looks that way, which is other

430
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:41,120
Speaker 1: shows that I did don't have that look. It's really

431
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,359
Speaker 1: important for me to try to find the right look

432
00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:47,239
Speaker 1: for any show I'm doing, and being a character in

433
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,239
Speaker 1: that place, investigating what the stories that are going on

434
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:55,600
Speaker 1: informed to me how that show should look. It's really documentary, right,

435
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,440
Speaker 1: I mean, it was really about trying to find all

436
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,840
Speaker 1: of the elements of making a documentary. And in a

437
00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:09,720
Speaker 1: true documentary, it's being put together solely in the editing bay,

438
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:15,480
Speaker 1: and the story that's happening actually in real time that

439
00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 1: you don't get retakes of. You get what you get,

440
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,399
Speaker 1: whereas in this you were really telling the story in

441
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:28,399
Speaker 1: the moment visually that then you know, we take the

442
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,000
Speaker 1: best takes, and we do. But but but how that

443
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:35,439
Speaker 1: story is told is influenced way more by you as

444
00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: the operator of the camera then in post the editors

445
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:43,040
Speaker 1: might disagree, but I I think the attitude that the

446
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:46,600
Speaker 1: camera has on set is certainly how the story is told.

447
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: Do you think the editors would disagree. No, No, I

448
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 1: don't know. I'm just giving them a dig. No, No,

449
00:25:53,640 --> 00:25:56,760
Speaker 1: I think they loved, they enjoyed that attitude, and they

450
00:25:56,800 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 1: always would would cut that attitude in there because I

451
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 1: think that was a really a special sauce that no

452
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:06,840
Speaker 1: other show had. And although we didn't shoot a whole

453
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,399
Speaker 1: lot of warners, right, so one shot that carries us

454
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: through an entire scene that you can't really cut up.

455
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: You you really were oftentimes by connecting, as you said,

456
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 1: Jenna to John, we see John and then we see

457
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,800
Speaker 1: Rain looking at John looking at Jenna, and you you

458
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:31,520
Speaker 1: see the realization from all of those characters what's happening

459
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: in that moment. It's not an Orson Wells however many

460
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:38,359
Speaker 1: minutes a wonner, but you're still creating the story that

461
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,360
Speaker 1: an editor can't change. We did, We did do a lot.

462
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:42,679
Speaker 1: I mean I always tried to do a lot of

463
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: warners because I thought they told so much. They gave

464
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:48,880
Speaker 1: so much background us to where everybody was, and and

465
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:54,080
Speaker 1: things just would often line up so beautifully. Um. I

466
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,520
Speaker 1: really enjoy those things where you see Steve go into

467
00:26:56,520 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 1: his office and the camera tried to go into his

468
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:00,480
Speaker 1: office and he just shuts the door, and then he

469
00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:02,159
Speaker 1: just shuts the blinds, and then he just shots the

470
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:03,680
Speaker 1: other blinds, and then he goes around to the other

471
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 1: You know, I really enjoy that. It tells me what

472
00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:10,239
Speaker 1: the camera's thinking in a really cool way. Do you

473
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,480
Speaker 1: remember any happy accidents or things that happened in one

474
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: ears that you you would not have been able to

475
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 1: get if you had shot it differently. We certainly tried

476
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: to shoot like the gym and Pam kiss I was

477
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: so far away from the ken Cooppas was directing, and

478
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: I was in the kitchen and all the lights were

479
00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:35,880
Speaker 1: out and we just had barely barely light on. And

480
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 1: it was a really long lens shot. It was probably

481
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 1: three d millimeter long lens shot. It's really so it

482
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: just felt it felt so real, and I remember doing

483
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: it is like, you know, I was actually getting choked up,

484
00:27:50,640 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: and I knew very well that I was John Krasinski

485
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: and Jenna Fisher and that there was craft service just

486
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,120
Speaker 1: out the out the door, and I would see John

487
00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,440
Speaker 1: and Jenna there in a minute. But I would still

488
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:04,280
Speaker 1: get emotionally involved. I would get invested because it to me,

489
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:07,040
Speaker 1: when I was shooting looked real and I was with

490
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:10,520
Speaker 1: those characters and it all felt real. Yeah, that's amazing.

491
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:16,320
Speaker 1: Well that was beautiful, my Um, what I was thinking

492
00:28:16,359 --> 00:28:18,680
Speaker 1: of was not nearly as sweet as what you said.

493
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,960
Speaker 1: We tried to do kind of a wonder. I don't

494
00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 1: think it was actually a wonder, but in stress relief

495
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:30,080
Speaker 1: in the episode where the fake fire drill happens where

496
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,360
Speaker 1: Dwight lights the fire, and we tried to do that.

497
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,640
Speaker 1: And I don't know if you remember this, but there's

498
00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: a shot where Kevin me, I'm running through the office.

499
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: I'm running through the kitchen to go from the I've

500
00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:46,560
Speaker 1: just raided the vetting machine and I'm running through the

501
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:51,600
Speaker 1: kitchen and I shoulder you, I nudge you. You go

502
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,719
Speaker 1: down on the on your ass on the ground, and

503
00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,120
Speaker 1: Chris Workman, who was the camera assistant, huge beef, be

504
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,240
Speaker 1: very strong guy, reaches down, picks you up by the shoulders.

505
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 1: You stand back up with the camera and keep filming.

506
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: And that that stayed in Oh man. I was so

507
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: proud of that, you and more of me, but of you,

508
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: and most I was really proud of Chris. I mean

509
00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 1: he picked me up like I'm not small and no

510
00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: camera is not small, um, and he just picked me

511
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:26,640
Speaker 1: up with one arm and I'm like, did I fall down?

512
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:30,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, he kept rolling and it is in

513
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,160
Speaker 1: the show and it's great. It's felt so real. I remember,

514
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: I remember, I'm backing up, backing up, backing up, backing up.

515
00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: Not fast enough. Boom, I'm up again. Thank you, Chris. Yeah,

516
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: it's funny because like on on normal, normal TV shows,

517
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: where there's always a guy who's guiding you backwards, and

518
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,080
Speaker 1: I never wanted and I was always weirded out by

519
00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:51,200
Speaker 1: somebody guiding me to where I should be because I

520
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:53,560
Speaker 1: always always kind of looked half look behind me and

521
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,640
Speaker 1: half flip through the viewfinder and just normally it's a

522
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: grip who's doing that? And I never wanted that. I

523
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 1: never never allowed that. But Chris was there that day.

524
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: He was there. He totally caught me. I think maybe

525
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:07,960
Speaker 1: he was opening the door for me as well, because

526
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:10,160
Speaker 1: I was rushing back, you were rushing backwards. There was

527
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 1: the door. We kind of got missed time because the

528
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,680
Speaker 1: door was I don't remember, but I shouldered you and thought,

529
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,600
Speaker 1: oh that's bad, and then realized we were still going

530
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: and I kept going. He was still going. I remember

531
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: also there was a time there was some on the

532
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:30,280
Speaker 1: basketball episode, John got his nose a bloody nose, and

533
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,120
Speaker 1: the story was he was supposed to get a bloody nose,

534
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: but he actually really got a bloody nose. So I'm

535
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,040
Speaker 1: I'm rushing right in there because John's bleeding and I'm

536
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 1: shooting it, and he stayed with it. He's like, okay,

537
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,400
Speaker 1: all right, we just cut because my nose hurts. But

538
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: I remember we just rolled with it. I also remember

539
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 1: up on the roof, Dwight and Michael we're growing a

540
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:58,960
Speaker 1: watermelon off the roof onto a trampoline to try to

541
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,720
Speaker 1: hit Stanley's are and they didn't think they'd be able

542
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:05,479
Speaker 1: to hit Stanley's car, but and we thought, okay, we're

543
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: gonna have to do this visual effects and it's going

544
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: to be a fake watermelon is going to smash on

545
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: the car. And we're all, you know, leaning over the

546
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 1: roof in harnesses and they throw the watermelon off. It

547
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 1: hits the trampoline and hits Stanley's car and dense the

548
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 1: roof and it was a real It really happened. So

549
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: I just pan back up to them and they just

550
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 1: kept going with it. It was it was fantastic. Um

551
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 1: there was another thing that has come up. Talk to

552
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:34,920
Speaker 1: me a little bit about the positioning of the talking

553
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: heads and and where certain characters were shot, and if

554
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: there was there a reason for which direction there was,

555
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:43,640
Speaker 1: and and I don't know if you know everybody else

556
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,960
Speaker 1: and anybody ever got this. It just meant meant something

557
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: to me. And that was, you know, everybody was shot

558
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: um pointing into the office where Leslie was sitting so

559
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: in front of Stanley, except for Jim, because I thought

560
00:31:58,400 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 1: that Jim was the one person who was going to

561
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: leave that place and they had something bigger they wanted

562
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: to do. And so Jim got to his position was

563
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: looking out the window and the parking lot in the sun.

564
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:14,120
Speaker 1: And eventually once Jim and Pam got together, then Jim

565
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: and Pam were both in front of the windows because

566
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,480
Speaker 1: they're both going to leave this place and go to

567
00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: some place better. That's awesome. I love that. That's like,

568
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: what do they call it the kids, an easter egg?

569
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: That's an Easter egg for the kids, That's an Easter egg.

570
00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: So you were telling stories in the reality world, and

571
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: then you know, being the director of photography and holding

572
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: the camera, but then now you move into directing for

573
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: your first time. So what was the first thing you directed?

574
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: You know it was it was the office because Greg said,

575
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 1: you're telling jokes with a camera like trying to He

576
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 1: says you should direct some I'll try too. And Greg started,

577
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 1: you know, insisted that I start directing, and you started

578
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: with the webisodes, right, No, No, it started with UM.

579
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 1: First one I did was I think I'm right The Accountants,

580
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: Las Contador Contadores. I thought I thought I was. I

581
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:32,640
Speaker 1: thought I didn't initiation Ben Franklin, and then Office Party.

582
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: I thought it was after that, We're gonna check the records.

583
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:39,200
Speaker 1: I mean, didn't we check the records? Guys, didn't I

584
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,360
Speaker 1: do them? As anyone listening, I think I'm right. I

585
00:33:42,360 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: think the accounts was first. But it doesn't matter. So

586
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:50,760
Speaker 1: NBC and Ben and Greg, um, this idea is hatched,

587
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 1: or a request is made from the network that while

588
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,880
Speaker 1: we're not shooting one summer, we want to continue UM

589
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: to tell story ease of other cast members who maybe

590
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: don't get as much attention during some of the episodes.

591
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:11,759
Speaker 1: And we created the first ever digital streaming series for

592
00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 1: a network, which was called Los Contadores The Accountants, and

593
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: you directed that. UM, how was that different or what

594
00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 1: did you think doing it? Well? I remember that it

595
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:33,280
Speaker 1: was done without resources, none, none, whatsoever. Um. I shot

596
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,680
Speaker 1: it on a camera you could buy at target. It

597
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:43,520
Speaker 1: was like a camera. I was pulling my own focus.

598
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: I think I had a gaffer and and a grip

599
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,680
Speaker 1: and that was it. We had nobody else and so

600
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: I shot it with one camera and I directed it

601
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: and it was really fast and it was really fun.

602
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: And I love the accountants. I mean, that's the that's

603
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,520
Speaker 1: that's really where the cool kids are. It really is.

604
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:07,480
Speaker 1: What I remember you saying when we started working on

605
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:11,360
Speaker 1: that was kind of like I don't know what it is.

606
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: It's it's like there's school or there's work, and then

607
00:35:14,239 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: there's like, you know, an extracurricular activity or something that

608
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,560
Speaker 1: you get to do which is still at school, but

609
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,520
Speaker 1: you can be a little bigger. And I remember you saying,

610
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:27,080
Speaker 1: like we don't have to play even by our own

611
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,759
Speaker 1: weird rules for the office, like we can invent a

612
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,399
Speaker 1: different style for for this to exist. And it's I

613
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: went back and watched it. It's really fun. Yeah, it

614
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,799
Speaker 1: was just fun to just to do do it. Such

615
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 1: a skeleton crew, I mean everything, but like when we

616
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,000
Speaker 1: went to New York. Remember the first time we went

617
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,319
Speaker 1: to New York was me, Greg and Steve. That was it.

618
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,440
Speaker 1: And then we had we had to hire a We

619
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,080
Speaker 1: had to hire a Union gaffer and a grip and

620
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:56,720
Speaker 1: they just sat in the van and the whole day

621
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: they just sat in the van. Who who hell? Who

622
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: held the camera? Shot around a tiny little you know,

623
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,239
Speaker 1: consumer camera. Did Yeah, we just take it like a

624
00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:06,279
Speaker 1: three thousand dollar camera there and it just sticks in

625
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,080
Speaker 1: my bag. You just put it in your suitcase and

626
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,760
Speaker 1: took it on a plane with Steve Carrell and Greg

627
00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 1: Daniels and shot shots outside of New York City. Yeah,

628
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:17,919
Speaker 1: because New York City looks beautiful and anything you could

629
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:20,399
Speaker 1: do to it in a lighting sense, it's probably gonna

630
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,879
Speaker 1: screw it up. So we just shot what was there.

631
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,720
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Yeah, I would love to see the stuff

632
00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:27,680
Speaker 1: with it that we shot that We just played that.

633
00:36:27,719 --> 00:36:30,799
Speaker 1: We just you know, we're just screwing around. Because there

634
00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,239
Speaker 1: was a bunch did you have what did you have

635
00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,720
Speaker 1: security or no? No one was closing off the street, nothing,

636
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,320
Speaker 1: nothing at all. I remember with a night did Steve

637
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 1: have a trailer? Like I'm so curious about all of this.

638
00:36:42,960 --> 00:36:46,360
Speaker 1: We stayed at the w and Steve and I we

639
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,040
Speaker 1: got in and we went to go get We went

640
00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:51,480
Speaker 1: to Johnny's for a slice. And at the time, there

641
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,319
Speaker 1: was you know, the forty year old Virgin posters were

642
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 1: a Times Square, and there was the Chipmunks movie that

643
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: he was in, and the Office was getting big, and

644
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:04,840
Speaker 1: and I remember Steve and I walking to Johnny's and

645
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:08,200
Speaker 1: then walking home on Times Square where there's a bazillion people,

646
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: and Steve being as gracious to the first person who

647
00:37:12,760 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: stopped him as he was to the thousandth person that

648
00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 1: stopped him. He just was never in a hurry, never

649
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: wanted to go. It was great. That's who that guy is.

650
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: That is who that guy is. Initiation was two thousand six,

651
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: which was which was what season? Oh dang it, you

652
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:36,319
Speaker 1: guys got it in the right order, and I changed

653
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: it around because I thought you were wrong. Um, all right,

654
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: so you are telling stories by holding the camera. You've

655
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:48,439
Speaker 1: told stories shooting through reality. Now you finally got your

656
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: first chance to actually direct the scripted program which was

657
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:55,200
Speaker 1: on the Office. Initiation Yeah, and um, I think yeah.

658
00:37:55,239 --> 00:37:58,720
Speaker 1: B J wrote it and it was when Dwight takes

659
00:37:58,760 --> 00:38:01,319
Speaker 1: b J out to the farm to initiate him. And

660
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:03,200
Speaker 1: there was one of my favorite lines of the office

661
00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,440
Speaker 1: that we got to do improv of that was just

662
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 1: as you plant that seat in the ground, I am

663
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: going to plant my seat in you. And it made

664
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: the television so amazing, and it made television that is

665
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:21,839
Speaker 1: so amazing. Um, how did leaving the office so going

666
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: to the Beat Farm or you know, we think about

667
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,800
Speaker 1: the show as being so stuck in that one place,

668
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,239
Speaker 1: and it's known obviously the iconic the office, the bullpen

669
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 1: that we shot most of the stuff in. But then

670
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: as the seasons began to move and we started to

671
00:38:35,719 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 1: go out, for example the Beat Farm did did that

672
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 1: alter anything? Leaving that bullpen environment? I think, well, you know,

673
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,360
Speaker 1: if we try to make the bullpen environment seemed like

674
00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:48,919
Speaker 1: a prison um, which I think we did, Um, then

675
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:54,160
Speaker 1: outside could be the liberation, a liberating feeling, Dick, get

676
00:38:54,200 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: people outside, get people breathing fresh air. Like there's a

677
00:38:57,080 --> 00:38:59,239
Speaker 1: scene in the Beat farmers just back the camera's way

678
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,040
Speaker 1: off really far away and it's just Dwight and b

679
00:39:02,239 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 1: J in the you know, b J on his knees

680
00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 1: planting a seed and and uh and just backed the

681
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:11,400
Speaker 1: camera way off and just let the sun play, and

682
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,200
Speaker 1: it was just gorgeous. So I tried to make it

683
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: up a reprieve, a break from women, not the of

684
00:39:16,560 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 1: fluorescent tubes. Was that a metaphor? No, I don't know

685
00:39:19,719 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: what a metaphor. I don't either. It might have been

686
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,720
Speaker 1: someone just sent it that I should say that word

687
00:39:24,840 --> 00:39:26,919
Speaker 1: a lot. So I've just been trying. I've been trying

688
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 1: to use the word metaphor dramaturgy, and I'm gonna try

689
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: to work it in here some place. The word I

690
00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: keep using is juxtaposition. Juxtaposition nice, yeah, because there's an

691
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,360
Speaker 1: X in it, and words with exs make you seem

692
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: real smart. Contextual is I mean contextualize a great word.

693
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 1: When you contextualize the juxtaposition of ideas, it's um usually

694
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: enlightening this good stuff. Um I uh. But that was

695
00:39:57,440 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 1: the first time we went to the Beat Farm. That

696
00:39:59,280 --> 00:40:00,719
Speaker 1: was the first time it at at the at the

697
00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 1: Beat Farm. Yeah, and you know it was it was

698
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: It was really really cool to get to direct a show,

699
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:12,360
Speaker 1: the show because everybody had in my back. Everybody was

700
00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: so supportive and tolerant, and and I knew how I

701
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:20,879
Speaker 1: wanted to shoot it too. But everybody was just so

702
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: behind me, and that just felt incredible, you know. And

703
00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,120
Speaker 1: I think I've gone on and I've directed fifteen or

704
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:33,400
Speaker 1: sixteen episodes of the show, and Greg Daniels like, bless

705
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,680
Speaker 1: his heart, he was you know. I I started to think,

706
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 1: maybe I want to do more directing, and Greg, let

707
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:43,360
Speaker 1: me go direct other TV shows and come back to

708
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:49,320
Speaker 1: the office two d P. And nobody in this industry

709
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:56,480
Speaker 1: does that. Nobody does that for people. So he wanted

710
00:40:56,520 --> 00:40:58,880
Speaker 1: you to be able to pursue what you wanted to

711
00:40:58,920 --> 00:41:03,160
Speaker 1: do and come to you back whenever you could certainly did. Yeah,

712
00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,040
Speaker 1: that's pretty special. That's really special. Yeah. No, I mean

713
00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:10,719
Speaker 1: everybody's you know that you're shooting twenty two episodes or

714
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 1: something in a season, and and everybody needs to be

715
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 1: there pulling their weight, and Greig's like, no, you should

716
00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: go do something else. Yeah, it's awesome. Yeah, you know

717
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:31,960
Speaker 1: that's Greg. It's Greg. Yeah. So, end of season six,

718
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:37,520
Speaker 1: you leave the office. How difficult was it to make

719
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,719
Speaker 1: that decision to leave? You know? I mean I think

720
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:43,920
Speaker 1: that's when I stopped dpeeing. Yeah, when I stopped deepaying.

721
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,719
Speaker 1: That was that was scary. I was really scary because

722
00:41:47,760 --> 00:41:50,040
Speaker 1: I knew I could shoot. I mean I didn't go

723
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:55,719
Speaker 1: to film school. I didn't go to school. I you know,

724
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: I barely graduated high school, but I high school. You

725
00:41:59,800 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: mean third grade? I do, um. You know, I didn't

726
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: really have a backup plan other than maybe I could

727
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:08,920
Speaker 1: go back to the office if they sayn't didn't work.

728
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:10,600
Speaker 1: And it was a very good job and I had

729
00:42:10,640 --> 00:42:13,360
Speaker 1: fun doing it every single day. But I started, I

730
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: fell in love with directing. I still love shooting, but

731
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,440
Speaker 1: I fell in love with directing. And it was scary

732
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:24,160
Speaker 1: because I had this job for six years, and in television,

733
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 1: having a job for six years is unheard of. There

734
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 1: are very few shows that get to do that. And

735
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,200
Speaker 1: I was making good money. And I moved my family

736
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: out here from Australia to try so I could go

737
00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 1: home at night. And it was scary to step away,

738
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:43,400
Speaker 1: but I really felt very safe that I was, that

739
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:46,520
Speaker 1: Greg would always be there, he'd always let me back

740
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:51,200
Speaker 1: in right. And you know, a lot of conversation obviously

741
00:42:51,200 --> 00:42:56,640
Speaker 1: about when Steve left, but I remember when you left,

742
00:42:57,520 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: and it was a deeply emotional time for us as well.

743
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:04,319
Speaker 1: I mean I remember us talking about it, and you're

744
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 1: talking about some of your fear or anxiety, but feeling

745
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:11,080
Speaker 1: like it was it was time. And you know, as

746
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:16,279
Speaker 1: one of those quite frankly core cast members, um that

747
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: we're together. I remember that being a very it was

748
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 1: very difficult for us. We knew we were going to

749
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:25,480
Speaker 1: miss you. I missed everybody, and it was it was

750
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,359
Speaker 1: that that was tricky. It was like leaving home. You know,

751
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: It's like you know you need to or you're not

752
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,799
Speaker 1: going to grow, but at the same time home is

753
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: a great place. Yeah, what are you most proud of

754
00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: about the show or thankful for? You know what I'm

755
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,919
Speaker 1: thankful for is Greg giving me the chance. Greg Andvent

756
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:47,800
Speaker 1: and giving me the chance. I mean, it's completely changed

757
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 1: my life. I'm you know, it's and they did it

758
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:54,359
Speaker 1: in such a gracious way. That's another thing I think about.

759
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 1: It's like there was never a bad idea on the office,

760
00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,319
Speaker 1: never a bad If somebody in Craft Serve is Cave

761
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: Craig and idea, He's like, that's a great idea. He

762
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 1: would go run with it. So it was it was

763
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:08,839
Speaker 1: just I think what I love so much about it

764
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 1: was it was just so collaborative and it wasn't always

765
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,520
Speaker 1: easy to find a way to do something, but we

766
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,759
Speaker 1: always figured it out and and I think it was

767
00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:22,279
Speaker 1: Greg he first said, yeah, everything we do everything that,

768
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: everything that makes it harder makes it better, which I

769
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:30,080
Speaker 1: think is kind of a metaphor for life. You know,

770
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:34,399
Speaker 1: it strikes me, you know, Ben told me that he

771
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: went to Kevin Riley and said, this guy Greg Daniels

772
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,080
Speaker 1: is the guy, the guy who had not worked very

773
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:48,280
Speaker 1: much at all in in live action program. And then

774
00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:52,279
Speaker 1: Ben goes to Greg and says, this guy ran the

775
00:44:52,400 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 1: line horn. He's the guy someone who's never shot a

776
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 1: script show. And it's like these kids got given the

777
00:45:01,440 --> 00:45:05,880
Speaker 1: keys to this really cool toy that Ricky Gervais created

778
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,799
Speaker 1: and went, Okay, well let's you know what, let's not

779
00:45:09,880 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: worry about doing it how other people would do it,

780
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,319
Speaker 1: because we haven't done that. Let's do it in our

781
00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:19,440
Speaker 1: own way. I think there's there's there's something very liberating

782
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:22,120
Speaker 1: about not knowing how to do something that you come

783
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 1: up with your your own way of doing it. That

784
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:26,520
Speaker 1: might be special. You know, I didn't. I had no

785
00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:30,080
Speaker 1: formal film training whatsoever. I just thought I like that,

786
00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: Oh that's cool, and that's what I would you know,

787
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:36,640
Speaker 1: I would just get to Chase. What I felt was cool,

788
00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,000
Speaker 1: not what I thought I knew. Yeah, the notion of

789
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: hiring a documentarian to be the documentarian on a scripted

790
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: TV show, when you dissect that, I don't know that

791
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:54,879
Speaker 1: that's necessarily the wisest choice, but it really worked. And

792
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:59,120
Speaker 1: I think obviously Ben saw something and and Greg saw something,

793
00:45:59,239 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: and it's not necessarily the choice that I think people

794
00:46:05,239 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: would ever make, but they did. They did. Where do

795
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:12,520
Speaker 1: you think you would be right now if the Office

796
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 1: had never happened? Australia the out Yeah, I love for rain.

797
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,920
Speaker 1: Remember Rain used to make fun of my accident, which

798
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,600
Speaker 1: I don't hear do I have? You do have an accent?

799
00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 1: Now when you listen to this, you'll be like, oh, yeah,

800
00:46:27,719 --> 00:46:32,000
Speaker 1: I mean my rain rains My there I was. It

801
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:37,280
Speaker 1: was beautiful, caught a while bull my gold just beautiful,

802
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,200
Speaker 1: so amazing. Um. I just want you to know that

803
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: I think the work you did in creating the vision

804
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:53,080
Speaker 1: of this show and the aesthetic is truly on inspiring.

805
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: Thank you. Yeah, and all of your success um is

806
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: well deserved. Even though you're an idiot reality guy. Um,

807
00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,440
Speaker 1: you turned out to be pretty dead gum smart, and

808
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 1: I love you ma'am, thank you. I love you too.

809
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,160
Speaker 1: It was a pretty unhappy reality guy. Yeah, it was

810
00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 1: my first scripted job and I've I was really lucky. Alright,

811
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: awesome anything else, you guys? That was fun? Dude, I

812
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:24,759
Speaker 1: can't believe I cheered up because Greg guy me. But yeah,

813
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:41,799
Speaker 1: I can't. I can't believe it. How incredible was that?

814
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 1: I had so much fun talking to Randall? And as

815
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:49,440
Speaker 1: I told him after the recording, he really surprised me

816
00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:53,359
Speaker 1: during that interview. He was so smart and insightful. I mean,

817
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:56,280
Speaker 1: I didn't think he was dumb before, but he quoted

818
00:47:56,400 --> 00:48:02,760
Speaker 1: Albert Einstein, who does that. And by the way, Randall

819
00:48:02,800 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 1: only has one testicle, so that kind of thinking from

820
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: a man with one testicle is also very impressive. Maybe

821
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,040
Speaker 1: we'll get Randall back to talk about that story. That's

822
00:48:14,080 --> 00:48:18,280
Speaker 1: a gem of a story on another occasion. But thank

823
00:48:18,320 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: you Randall. Listen. His work on the Office so special.

824
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,240
Speaker 1: It would not have been The Office without Randall. Anyway.

825
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: That's gonna do it for this week, folks. Stay tuned

826
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:34,800
Speaker 1: next week as we dive deeper into all things camera

827
00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 1: with some actors on that subject. Until then, have a

828
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: great week. The Office Deep Dive is hosted and executive

829
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Lang Lee.

830
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,880
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Tessa Kramer, our producer is Adam Massias,

831
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,839
Speaker 1: our associate producer is Emily Carr, and our assistant editor

832
00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 1: is Diego Tapio. My main man in the booth is

833
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: Alec Moore. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak, performed by

834
00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed

835
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:31,440
Speaker 1: by Seth Olansky