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Speaker 1: Before we dive in, folks, we want to have a

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Speaker 1: quick disclaimer. This conversation as some strong language, none of

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Speaker 1: which has been edited, So do be aware. From UFOs

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Speaker 1: to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with

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Speaker 1: unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the

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Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. A production of

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Speaker 1: My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. My

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Speaker 1: name is Matt, my name is Noel. They called me Ben.

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Speaker 1: We're joined as always with our super producer Paul mission

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Speaker 1: controlled decands. Most importantly, you are you. You are here.

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Speaker 1: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know.

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Speaker 1: And we have a an episode that I have been

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Speaker 1: looking forward to. I think we all have for quite sometime.

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Speaker 1: You have heard about Havannah syndrome. In fact, we did

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Speaker 1: an episode on this very concept, uh not too too

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Speaker 1: long ago, but time has flown during these our days

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Speaker 1: of pandemic. So we wanted to go on air with

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Speaker 1: a conversation that has been continuing for a weird amount

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Speaker 1: of time, and you have asked us for it, conspiracy realists,

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Speaker 1: and we wanted to deliver. We are not diving into

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Speaker 1: the concept of the Havana syndrome alone. Today we are

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Speaker 1: joined by the one and only the man, the myth legend,

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Speaker 1: Mr Jack O'Brien live and direct hit me. Hi, guys,

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Speaker 1: how are you? Thank you for having me? Very excited

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Speaker 1: to be here. This is uh, this is one of

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Speaker 1: my pet subjects. This is one of the things that

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Speaker 1: Um Miles would play the Curb your Enthusiasm music when

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Speaker 1: I started talking about it. Because here we go again,

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Speaker 1: Uh to start down music. Yeah, I think that's no. No. Uh.

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Speaker 1: First off, as we're recording it is Mr Miles of

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Speaker 1: Grace birthday. So had it this year to you? Miles? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And uh and this uh, this conversation is a long

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Speaker 1: time in coming because Jack, you and Matt Nolan I

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Speaker 1: have been in a weird situation with Havana syndrome. We

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Speaker 1: are the guys who keep bringing it up to the

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Speaker 1: point of like exhausting the attention of our friends and

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Speaker 1: our loved ones. And we're probably doing that. Actually move

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Speaker 1: to them where they say something and we go, actually

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Speaker 1: I've given up, by the way, I'm just like I

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Speaker 1: I have come on here to do my last talking

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Speaker 1: about Havana syndrome. So this is it, I promise I promise.

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Speaker 1: My wife she made me promising a couples therapy. So yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: all right, well we're gonna we're gonna help you keep

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Speaker 1: that promise. Man. But before we get into Havannahs syndrome,

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Speaker 1: let's talk a little bit about your background. For anyone

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Speaker 1: who somehow isn't aware you are the creator of cracked

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Speaker 1: dot com. Uh, you have also uh been for quite

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Speaker 1: a while now one of the few people more busy

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Speaker 1: than us in the world of podcasting, with a little

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Speaker 1: thing called the Daily Zeiegeist. What's what's the Daily Zeiegeist. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so it's a twice daily podcast. I don't know why

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Speaker 1: we get that, but it's not even in the name.

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Speaker 1: She called the twice daily. We so we do an

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Speaker 1: hour long episode that drops in the morning and is

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Speaker 1: more like outlined and thoughts composed, and then we just

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Speaker 1: check in in the afternoon and tell you what's trending.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, it's been Miles Gray and I and a

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Speaker 1: guest along with superproducer on a hose ni a and

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Speaker 1: just kind of combing through what is happening in the

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Speaker 1: zeitgeist and um, yeah, it's fun. It's um. I think

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Speaker 1: we started it during the Trump administration, thinking like, well,

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Speaker 1: this will last as long as the Trump administration lasts,

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Speaker 1: and like we feel like we're we have so much

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Speaker 1: to say that our heads are gonna burst. And then

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Speaker 1: it's actually gotten more fun to do like a lot

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Speaker 1: of parts of life outside of that administration, and uh,

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Speaker 1: it's freed me to talk and think about things like

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Speaker 1: Havana syndrome. Well before we even get into that. Just

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Speaker 1: regarding covering now national events and the news and the zeitgeist,

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Speaker 1: have you guys been covering the real strike that's like

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Speaker 1: about to either kick off or be Okay, yeah, we

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Speaker 1: we we actually were covering that on today's episode, and

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Speaker 1: we we kind of got head faked by the mainstream

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Speaker 1: media being like it's over, they gotta we gotta deal

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Speaker 1: and the unions are happy, and then the unions being like,

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Speaker 1: we didn't. We haven't agreed to anything just yet. Um,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, we we have been talking about that and

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Speaker 1: kind of the rise in uh labor in the in

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Speaker 1: the US, uh, and it's been cool. You gotta love

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Speaker 1: pre written press releases like that where they actually don't

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Speaker 1: wait for the real news to drop. That's fine. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're good. We're just gonna do an onion style. They'll

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Speaker 1: read the headline. Let's spend the time writing that, Well,

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Speaker 1: the headline is that President Joe Biden, what is it

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Speaker 1: secured a tentative deal? That was the headline, right, Okay.

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Speaker 1: And the demands, the request, I don't like calling them demands.

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Speaker 1: The request of the rail workers are super not crazy.

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Speaker 1: There things like can I have a little vacation if

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Speaker 1: my mom is sick? And can I go to the

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Speaker 1: doctor cantor without getting like uh, you know, in Trouble

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Speaker 1: with Work essentially, we actually just did an episode on

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Speaker 1: the Luddites, the history of the Luddites, ridiculous history. And

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Speaker 1: back in the early days of textiles, there were these

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Speaker 1: individuals with a job called croppers, and their job was

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Speaker 1: to like kind of smooth out the pieces of fabric.

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Speaker 1: And they were these high demand, very specialized workers who

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Speaker 1: were able to demand all of this like paid vacation

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Speaker 1: and like they had mondays off just to get drunk

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Speaker 1: and all of this stuff that they were able to

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Speaker 1: command because of the fact that they were very good

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Speaker 1: at their jobs and they had this like legacy kind

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Speaker 1: of knowledge around this. And then the Industrial Revolution comes

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Speaker 1: along and everything scales and it's no longer about quality,

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Speaker 1: it's about quantic d and it's this interesting trajectory and

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Speaker 1: seeing where we are now with all this labor movement stuff,

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Speaker 1: how slay it for somebody? People? What if you could

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Speaker 1: do this one thing that's special to you, but do

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Speaker 1: it like a hundred times. Also, we want to pay

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Speaker 1: you less and you can't take days off. But but

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Speaker 1: so this is um. This is a brief snapshot of

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Speaker 1: some of the things that are discussed on daily Zeitgeist.

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Speaker 1: They're also fresh baked, uh, which I hate using the term,

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Speaker 1: but it is true. And what what this means to

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Speaker 1: me is that when the concept of Havanas syndrome first

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Speaker 1: hit the national consciousness, all right, I'll say it, when

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Speaker 1: it first hit the zeitgeist was he So let's start here,

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Speaker 1: jack Um. As far as we can tell, the the

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Speaker 1: name is kind of bullshit. But the the first public

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Speaker 1: reports of what would later be called Havana's syndrome kind

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Speaker 1: of came around seventeen. That's when the public started finding out.

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Speaker 1: When when did you find out and what did you hear? Initially, Well,

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Speaker 1: my inside report, my inside contacts at the CIA had

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Speaker 1: actually tuned me into this a little earlier. Now, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I found out the same same time as everyone else

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Speaker 1: with the with the news reports, and it's, um, they're

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Speaker 1: these stories that pop up where I'm like, well, this

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Speaker 1: should be the only thing we talked about ever again,

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Speaker 1: because they're saying that somebody has weaponry that no science,

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Speaker 1: like known scientists like or known science can't explain. End

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Speaker 1: they're attacking the US and like these really strange ways,

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Speaker 1: and um, it just seemed very fascinating to me. But

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Speaker 1: I also did kind of immediately that there were some

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Speaker 1: flags that kind of initially popped up. Specifically, Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: scientists being like that there's nothing we know of that

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Speaker 1: could do the thing that they're talking about, which doesn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily mean that it's completely false, right, doesn't necessarily mean

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Speaker 1: that because we we talked about this on the show,

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Speaker 1: weapons testing all the time, in advanced Weaponry, DARPA, RUP

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Speaker 1: all those things. And you know how how the public

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Speaker 1: is only gonna know what an iPhone the equivalent of

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Speaker 1: what an iPhone eight is or seven or whatever, you know,

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Speaker 1: does that make sense? But yeah, yeah, total scientists, you know,

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Speaker 1: whether they're involved with the government or not, science is science,

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Speaker 1: and they can't point to a thing that's an analog

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Speaker 1: for this. Chances are it might be a little far

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Speaker 1: fetched or a little overblowed. You think some scientists with

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Speaker 1: knowledge of this area would come out and be like, well,

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Speaker 1: there's a it could be done if you you know,

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Speaker 1: did this or you know, added a little you know,

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Speaker 1: widgeon or something, then maybe I could see that happening.

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Speaker 1: The vague scientistic like some vague scientific reports being like, well,

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Speaker 1: you know, their voices would get high pitched as I

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Speaker 1: read them in the well, you know, if you liked.

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Speaker 1: But then there would be the other scientists who were like,

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Speaker 1: not only does nothing like this exist, but theoretically like

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Speaker 1: sound doesn't do that. And microwave, like, if you're going

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Speaker 1: to create a microwave weapon like this, it would be

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Speaker 1: so loud and so huge that you wouldn't be Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it requires so much energy, like all the lights in

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Speaker 1: Havana would dim at the same time. Like, um, it

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Speaker 1: just it seemed like the symptoms wouldn't even be the same.

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Speaker 1: I don't think, right, isn't that part of it too?

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Speaker 1: This the symptoms don't really align with the microwave infiltration,

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Speaker 1: and the symptoms aren't the same from person to person.

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Speaker 1: In a lot of the cases, So that was another thing.

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Speaker 1: And you know, at Cracked we did a lot of

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Speaker 1: nonfiction and then just reading the news every day for

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Speaker 1: like since we started the daily zised back in twenty

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Speaker 1: I believe, Um, the thing that I've kind of always

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Speaker 1: thought was an underrated mover was the the ability for

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Speaker 1: the unconscious mind to physically affect people, both their health

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Speaker 1: and you know, it's just a very very powerful thing. Um.

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Speaker 1: So I think the thing that helped me get my

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Speaker 1: mind around it was just thinking of it not as

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Speaker 1: anybody is making it up. You know, No, nobody's making

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Speaker 1: it up. These are people to whom this is happening.

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Speaker 1: Um that they're not doing this. They're not intentionally creating

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Speaker 1: a lie to get out of work. Uh, it's just

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Speaker 1: it's not a it's not weaponry. What was kind of

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Speaker 1: where I landed on them. Yeah, you're you're thinking, Uh,

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Speaker 1: I think we're on the same page there. It's not

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Speaker 1: a conspiracy because there aren't people trying I'm sorry, but

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Speaker 1: there aren't people trying to con people right there. They're

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Speaker 1: not bad actors. These people are encountering things and Jack,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is where we introduce sort of our word

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Speaker 1: of the day. Uh, the way that it even the

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Speaker 1: definition of what you're talking about about, the how the

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Speaker 1: New York Times put it, the interest between yeah, between

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Speaker 1: the brain and the mind. It was called, uh, we

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Speaker 1: don't say hysteria. Now there's a different word, the p word. Yeah, psychogenic. Pa,

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Speaker 1: I was gonna say, it's a fun spiracy, a conspiracy

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Speaker 1: of fun spiracy. Um. Yeah, psychogenic is sort of the

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Speaker 1: term that most sides use, I think the people. So

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Speaker 1: the place that I was reading everything that I could

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Speaker 1: get my eyes on about Havana syndrome, and the first

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Speaker 1: article that fully I was like, okay, this all kind

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Speaker 1: of coheres like, and I'd read, you know, the New

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Speaker 1: Yorker was reporting on this. I love to read a

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Speaker 1: New Yorker article and then like tell people I read

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Speaker 1: a New Yorker article and yeah exactly. But like even

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Speaker 1: the New Yorker articles weren't really cohering like in terms

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Speaker 1: of like the just the kind of total truths of

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Speaker 1: what was being talked about. Um. And this New York

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Speaker 1: Times magazine article that was in the Health issue was

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Speaker 1: the first thing that kind of made it make sense

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Speaker 1: to me, and they focused on it, like the person

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Speaker 1: who wrote the article is not somebody who like reports

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Speaker 1: on you know, diplomacy or weapons. They they focus there

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Speaker 1: in the process of writing a book on something called

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Speaker 1: functional disorders UM, which is sort of this newer understanding

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Speaker 1: of psychogenic like what used to be called mass hysteria

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Speaker 1: or just you know hysteria in the cases of like

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Speaker 1: individuals suffering from things that were caused by the mind.

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Speaker 1: But for a long time, starting the twentieth century, people

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Speaker 1: thought it was I think Freud called it UM. I

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Speaker 1: forget what his term for it was, but it was

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Speaker 1: it was always the idea that like some problem in

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Speaker 1: their psyche was then causing this to physically manifest and conversion. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you convert like some you know, desire to fight your

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Speaker 1: dead and uh, you know, have sex with your mom

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Speaker 1: into like this thing you know it like And so

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Speaker 1: this new understanding is that it's a neurological thing. So

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Speaker 1: it's not a thing that necessarily you can untangle to

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Speaker 1: something it happened to you as a child, or you know,

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Speaker 1: something that you're even psychologically aware of. UM. It's it

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Speaker 1: can be It's really like they don't have an explanation.

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Speaker 1: It's more about something that is unconscious to you that

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Speaker 1: is causing this to happen to you that you were

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Speaker 1: not aware of. But it's not it's not you causing it. Really,

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Speaker 1: it is something in your neurological makeup that is causing it.

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Speaker 1: It's like sort of getting locked into how your synapses

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Speaker 1: like fire and work together and they're like pathways in

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Speaker 1: your mind. It almost reminds me of like addiction. It

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Speaker 1: wouldn't like show up on a brain scan though, either, right,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't show up as some sort of like you know,

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Speaker 1: anomalous thing in an m r I or a you

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Speaker 1: know CT scan. Well that's a sticky thing. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: feel like reading about brain skins on in in the

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Speaker 1: context of Havana syndrome, I went down a road of

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Speaker 1: people's sort of debunking brain scans as a very useful

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Speaker 1: tool and just saying like you can look at brain

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Speaker 1: scans and like see a lot of different things depending

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Speaker 1: on the eye of the beholder and kind of what

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Speaker 1: you want to see. Because that was like a lot

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Speaker 1: of a lot of the pro this was an attack

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Speaker 1: UM articles. We're focusing on this. These studies done by

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Speaker 1: UM done it. I think you pen like hospitals that

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Speaker 1: basically said like their brain scans indicate something happened, and um,

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Speaker 1: it was just it seemed a little foggy. Um. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I mean, brain scans show things that can

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Speaker 1: be helpful as diagnostic tools, so I'm not I'm not

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Speaker 1: completely discounting them. It just seems like it was a

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Speaker 1: little bit kind of more up in the air than

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Speaker 1: some of some of the neurological stuff. It's like pornography.

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Speaker 1: I know when I see it, says uh, scientists who

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Speaker 1: may have may have an extra grind because scientists are

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Speaker 1: people too. But I like the point about reading perhaps

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Speaker 1: some electric tea leaves there right in the signals. Well, guys,

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about. For me, if I was just

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Speaker 1: an objective listener encountering this for the first time, I

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Speaker 1: would think, okay, well that kind of makes sense on

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Speaker 1: an individual level. But how do we explain that occurring,

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Speaker 1: you know, so many times, with so many individuals in

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Speaker 1: countries across the world. Right, that's a good question, Matt.

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Speaker 1: But we also have to consider then that these are

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Speaker 1: not separate entities. They are people who are in the

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Speaker 1: same field, in the same sphere of communication. And one

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Speaker 1: thing that's important is, uh, the ability to put a

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Speaker 1: name or a category upon any series of things like, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about this. I can't remember whether it

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Speaker 1: was off air or on a previous episode of some

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Speaker 1: sort of show. There was this. Uh, there's the very

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Speaker 1: valid argument that says, someone wakes up and they just

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Speaker 1: don't feel great. They have some sort of malaise, right,

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Speaker 1: some sort of ill defined malaise, and they are having

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Speaker 1: a moment, water cooler moment if you will, with someone else,

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Speaker 1: a colleague, a trusted colleague, that's important. That's key. Who

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Speaker 1: says to them, you know, I'm feeling a little low two,

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Speaker 1: you know. And this is pre COVID, when anytime someone

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Speaker 1: got a sniffle, they were like, let's covid. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna die. But as weird as it sounds, it

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Speaker 1: is very common for people to um, you want to

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Speaker 1: be part of something bigger than yourself. You also, if

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Speaker 1: you're a human, you want to classify patterns. Right, that's

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Speaker 1: the reason why humans are the most successful of the

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Speaker 1: primates currently. Uh, it's the it's the idea, you know,

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Speaker 1: Like Matt goes to Jack and say, is man, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: I got a real real pill of a headache, and

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Speaker 1: Jack says, you know what, I had a headache earlier.

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Speaker 1: And and are these connected? Because that's what people do.

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Speaker 1: We all sort of connect these dots for better information

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Speaker 1: bias if we have someone that confirms what we already

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Speaker 1: kind of believe. It's like a web MD syndrome is like,

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Speaker 1: you know, you go from having like a little body

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Speaker 1: ache to definitely I'm dying. It's like anything. It doesn't

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Speaker 1: even have to be an expert. It can just be

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Speaker 1: like you said, Ben, a trusted colleague and you're saying, whoa,

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Speaker 1: I feel exactly the same way. We were both in

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Speaker 1: the same space at the same time. It must be,

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Speaker 1: you know, something in our building, you know, at work.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a quick break, but then we'll be

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Speaker 1: back with more Jack. And we're back with Jack O'Brien

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Speaker 1: talking about the Havana syndrome. There's a article a personal history,

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Speaker 1: like a short story written by John lacarre or John Lakar.

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Speaker 1: I forget, I don't know Lakara. Is that how we

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Speaker 1: pronounced his name? The like spin We're covered, okay, And

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Speaker 1: so he was a former spy during World War Two.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, this did appear in The New Yorker,

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Speaker 1: which I read. I don't know if I meant that,

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Speaker 1: but and it's so he was a spy novelist and

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Speaker 1: he taught this was his honest account of what it

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Speaker 1: was like to be a spy during the Cold Warriors,

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Speaker 1: and it is it's really illuminating, like he's being sent

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Speaker 1: on these missions by people who, it turns out, are

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Speaker 1: like kind of creating all the intrigue to kind of

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Speaker 1: build up this story. Like there's a big like what

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Speaker 1: he his first mission. He goes to this like little

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Speaker 1: back alley like pool hall, and there's a briefcase drop

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Speaker 1: and it's all very cloak and dagger, and then he's

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Speaker 1: like and it turned out like there was nothing in

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Speaker 1: that briefcase. That guy was just doing this because he

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Speaker 1: wanted to live in the movie. And you know that

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Speaker 1: there was like everybody was paranoid, everybody thought everyone else

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Speaker 1: was a spy, but there also was like no there there,

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Speaker 1: And so that was another thing that I kept popping

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Speaker 1: up in my mind as I was reading about this.

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Speaker 1: And you know, there there was a um good piece

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Speaker 1: in Pro Publica early on in the Havana Syndrome reporting

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Speaker 1: where they just kind of tracked how the news was

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Speaker 1: first told to Like a few people had an experience

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Speaker 1: where they heard a high pitch noise and like started

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Speaker 1: feeling dizzy, and then that was reported at like a

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Speaker 1: staff meeting, but it was reported as like this is secret,

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Speaker 1: don't tell anyone, and it I can totally see how

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Speaker 1: it would have created a feeling of not being safe

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Speaker 1: and putting myself in that position and knowing how susceptible

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Speaker 1: I am to suggestion and you know body over mind,

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Speaker 1: mind over body stuff. Um, I I totally and sympathize

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Speaker 1: with like that that really helped me get my mind

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Speaker 1: around like this is not something that they are making up.

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Speaker 1: This is something that is happening to them because of

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Speaker 1: a unique combination of us as Westerners not understanding sort

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Speaker 1: of the mind body relationship and how powerful the mind

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Speaker 1: is in terms of illness, and then also how powerfully

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Speaker 1: weird it is to be in the CIA or be

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Speaker 1: a diplomat and stationed in another you know, in a

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Speaker 1: place and you know, rumors come up about like well,

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Speaker 1: they're they're attacking us or you know this, this person

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Speaker 1: had this weird experience, like don't tell anybody. It just

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Speaker 1: it felt like it was kind of ripe for the

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Speaker 1: sort of mass hysteria that that you sometimes Yeah, it's uh,

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Speaker 1: it's also uh, it's got it's leveraging the US versus them, right,

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Speaker 1: the in versus the out mentality. Uh. And then you know,

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Speaker 1: social pressure can be a real It is a real thing,

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Speaker 1: and it's not always purposeful, nor is it always malevolent.

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Speaker 1: It's it's sometimes just fitting in. Oh, I guess my

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Speaker 1: head does hurt. And and to me, man, that was

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Speaker 1: one of the main questionable indicators. The cases are all

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Speaker 1: at this point self reported. When we did uh, the

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Speaker 1: initial show on it, there were an estimated two hundred

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Speaker 1: reported cases around the world, all of similar demographics, all

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Speaker 1: people who are working closely together or live in this

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Speaker 1: rarefied air you describe. And as of now I checked

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Speaker 1: this going in. That's right. I did a little homework. Uh.

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Speaker 1: The tally is eleven hundred people again, all self reported.

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Speaker 1: There was no one like. This is not the same

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Speaker 1: situation as prostate cancer or something where a doctor says

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Speaker 1: this is what you have. These are people coming forward

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Speaker 1: and saying I think I have this thing right, and

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Speaker 1: this is again uh. One one point that you did

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Speaker 1: so beautifully uh and that I have immense respect for

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Speaker 1: is you're never dunking on these people. You're very clear

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Speaker 1: and everything you said on air about this and and

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Speaker 1: to me off air that you like, just because it

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Speaker 1: might not be some magical microwave weapon does not mean

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Speaker 1: these people are not experiencing real pain. Where did the

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Speaker 1: weapon theory come from? Initially, like it seems like such

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Speaker 1: a such a leap, so it had to have come

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Speaker 1: from somewhere. Yeah, I'll let well even let Jack talk

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Speaker 1: about it. But there was there was some weird stuff

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Speaker 1: happening in the past, and we kept seeing reports from

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Speaker 1: former UH spies or former you know, agents who were

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Speaker 1: talking about other microwave technologies that the USSR had used

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Speaker 1: in the past. Correct. Yeah, I think I think there's

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Speaker 1: some of that. You guys know more about that than

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Speaker 1: I do, But yeah, I know that there was UH

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Speaker 1: some like first it was sound weapons because the people

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Speaker 1: heard a strange sound and when they had the you know,

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Speaker 1: physical attack symptoms um And then once people kind of

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Speaker 1: disproved that that was possible, they moved on to microwaves.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's when they started looking through history

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Speaker 1: to see, oh there was an UH an example of Russia,

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Speaker 1: who I think people immediately liked for this because both

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Speaker 1: sides wanted. So I think my overall feeling on like

395
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Speaker 1: where it comes from is like in in paying attention

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Speaker 1: to the news, Like we overall the mainstream media in

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Speaker 1: the US has a pro making money bias and an

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Speaker 1: underrated thing that makes money. Uh, And it's not making

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Speaker 1: money for the most people. It's just making money, you

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Speaker 1: know there and so if there's one person who lives

401
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Speaker 1: in the suburbs suburbs of Virginia stands to make a

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Speaker 1: billion dollars, they're going to find a way to you know,

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Speaker 1: get that story seated and and make that billion dollars.

404
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Speaker 1: And um, you know, an underrated the way that people

405
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Speaker 1: make money is through the military industrial complex. And so

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Speaker 1: like creating a creating a super weapon that is generations

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Speaker 1: ahead of what we have access to. That's how Uh

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Speaker 1: we funded the twentieth century in the United States by

409
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Speaker 1: being like Russia has way more nuclear nuclear weapons than

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Speaker 1: we do, so we need to we need to keep

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Speaker 1: ramping up, revving up. And it wasn't true, but it

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Speaker 1: was good for business in the military industrial complex. We

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Speaker 1: have a defense gap. Yeah, oh exactly, And uh, the

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Speaker 1: USSR also had psychic soldiers, right, and we had to

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Speaker 1: had to dip our toes in there. Yeah yeah, and uh,

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Speaker 1: thank you for your service goats. That was you know,

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Speaker 1: that was that was solid your real heroes. Uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know this is this is true. This is one

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Speaker 1: of the largest, most consistently profitable industries in the West

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Speaker 1: in general, but in the United States in specific. And

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Speaker 1: you can like, that's not a conspiracy theory. That is objective,

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Speaker 1: that has proven. Uh you could call it a conspiracy,

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Speaker 1: but you can't call it a theory. Uh. We see this,

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Speaker 1: I think, uh we see this ad high octane fire

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00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: to the to the existing blaze. Right when folks like

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Speaker 1: Christopher Miller, former Secretary of Defense and the Trump administration

427
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:58,960
Speaker 1: immediately here's about this directed energy thing and says, hey,

428
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: not only is that like he gets all made for

429
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 1: TV commercial with it. Basically he's saying, not only is

430
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: it an energy weapon, but it's an act of war.

431
00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,800
Speaker 1: And we're left behind on this. You know. If you

432
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,640
Speaker 1: don't Yeah, if we don't beam the headaches in, someone's

433
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 1: gonna beam them at us, you know what I mean. Also, also,

434
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:26,120
Speaker 1: we need more money. Almost every government statement ends with

435
00:28:26,320 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 1: also we need more money. This is fascinating because the

436
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,760
Speaker 1: politicians at play, who were championing a lot of this stuff,

437
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: and we're indeed holding the purse of funding, they were

438
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: not so worried about the psychogenic aspects, right they were.

439
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:46,880
Speaker 1: They were not so worried about this, and they were

440
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:54,560
Speaker 1: likewise not particularly concerned with even theoretically proving the application

441
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: of what they called uh a directed energy weapon, which

442
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: is such a bullshit phrase, right, directed energy weapon. There's

443
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,000
Speaker 1: just three words that sound great together. You know, that's

444
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: completely logical to me. I'm going to direct this energy beam.

445
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: It's a style attack. Come on, that's real. I think

446
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,440
Speaker 1: if you see that it acronyms out to do you

447
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: understand that this is a Mountain Dew based op. This

448
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:27,960
Speaker 1: is all part of some viral marketing. We got it.

449
00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 1: That is my Mountain Dew, the Caribbean Blast. Also, I

450
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: don't know that coma Cabeo song Havana is about Thevana syndrome.

451
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:43,520
Speaker 1: It's all super like subtly masked. But Havana new Nana. Yeah, yeah, seriously,

452
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: like guys, I mean we we shouldn't have to tell

453
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,720
Speaker 1: you guys this, Come on, yeah, go to genius dot com.

454
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 1: You know what I mean, don't take our word for it,

455
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:58,160
Speaker 1: see for yourself. But is them experiencing That's like when

456
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: they're like havanah, oh that hurts. No no no no

457
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,920
Speaker 1: no no, no no no. And the whole thing is

458
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,280
Speaker 1: really a series of acronyms. So uh, so take your time,

459
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: write the acronyms out and send them to us. Uh

460
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,120
Speaker 1: and do the whole song. You know what I mean,

461
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:19,000
Speaker 1: don't be a coward. So the uh, the thing that

462
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: I think stays with us is like most people we

463
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: were we were delving into this story. I think all

464
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:34,160
Speaker 1: of us were very careful not to draw our own conclusions.

465
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: Were comparing information sources. We're looking at uh statements again

466
00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:44,080
Speaker 1: by multiple scientists who in the early days right in

467
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 1: they didn't all agree, and because it was science reporting,

468
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: they were misquoted often or you know, there was a

469
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: little hyperbole with their stuff. But one, uh, one thing

470
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 1: that is clear to me is that the story had

471
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 1: continued um. There was something that happened just in just

472
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 1: in this past August, as we record. On August, the

473
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:19,200
Speaker 1: New York Times reported the c I, a everybody's favorite company,

474
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 1: had started compensating again. Self reported victims of havana syndrome.

475
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 1: And what's interesting about that is, at the same time,

476
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: almost just quite recently this month, as we record September,

477
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: uh more and more other members of government are publicly

478
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: going skeptical because they're saying, all right, hang on, these

479
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 1: symptoms are ill defined. Pardon the pun, but the like

480
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 1: there there's not a specific thing we and find, which

481
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: means there's not a specific thing we can test for. Right,

482
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: so we are we not correct to be skeptical. And

483
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: unfortunately Uncle sam uh kind of made an unpleasant bed

484
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:20,640
Speaker 1: generations before by different pleasant bed. Sorry, yeah, but I

485
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: mean but generations before. You know, it's it's almost like

486
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 1: how anti vaccination movements arise out of human experimentation, like

487
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 1: the horrors of Tuskegee. What's happening is I would pose

488
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:37,120
Speaker 1: it that there are people who remember, well, the dangers

489
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:41,160
Speaker 1: of what was called agent orange or the dangers of

490
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: long term lead poisoning, and they're saying, well, it wouldn't

491
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: be the first time people lied to us. No. I

492
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,120
Speaker 1: have a question that does the payout does that um?

493
00:32:50,920 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 1: Does that create the sense of culpability or like, if

494
00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 1: they're paying out, then I think that maybe like caused

495
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,240
Speaker 1: the perspective of the media to be, oh, well, they're

496
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: paying people out, they must have done something wrong like

497
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: workers camp, right right, yeah, but different right, Like, I mean,

498
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 1: maybe maybe it is exactly that, But I wonder what

499
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: your perspective is on that, Jack, I do think you know,

500
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: at the same time that they are paying out there,

501
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 1: there has been I think things in opinions in the

502
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:23,200
Speaker 1: media are shaking out in the direction of it being psychogenic, um,

503
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: which I think I think the main thing now is that,

504
00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: like so so in this article about functional disorders, they

505
00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: talk about one of the kind of the smoking gun

506
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 1: that really convinced me was that the people who had

507
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: these attacks years ago, we're still experiencing symptoms and in

508
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,280
Speaker 1: a lot of cases the symptoms were getting worse still,

509
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: and the that is actually a telltale sign of a

510
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: functional disorder and something that is psychogenic, because that they

511
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,560
Speaker 1: were saying, even had somebody walked up and like hit

512
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 1: them on the head with something or you know what, whatever,

513
00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:06,800
Speaker 1: uh physical attack you want to talk about, the body

514
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:12,080
Speaker 1: heals those in and it gets progressively better, and that

515
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,880
Speaker 1: they would have been healed within like six months, whereas

516
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:19,040
Speaker 1: with psychogenic and these functional disorders that are sort of

517
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: locked into the circuitry of the brain um that that

518
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,360
Speaker 1: gets worse until you actually identify it as such and

519
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 1: go and like treated as such. And so my concern

520
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 1: is that for the people who are still suffering from this. Uh,

521
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,359
Speaker 1: first of all, I'm like, like, of all the money

522
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,120
Speaker 1: that the u u. S. Government is paying out, like fine,

523
00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:47,960
Speaker 1: but uh a bucket, But I mean and they are

524
00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 1: going through hell. Now when you say psychogenic, is that

525
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:53,560
Speaker 1: the same as PTSD or is that different? Like I

526
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 1: mean I'm a little clear. Yeah, well I think people

527
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 1: I actually haven't looked to PTSD enough to even like

528
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: kind of comment on it. I'm just saying more that

529
00:35:05,120 --> 00:35:10,840
Speaker 1: it is something that started in the is like locked

530
00:35:10,840 --> 00:35:14,640
Speaker 1: into the neurology more so than it is a physical

531
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,600
Speaker 1: um wound they are kind of healing from. But the like,

532
00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: you can cure these sorts of functional disorders if you

533
00:35:25,320 --> 00:35:28,040
Speaker 1: address them as such. But the more that this becomes

534
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:32,919
Speaker 1: a you know, they say this and we're saying they're fake,

535
00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:34,960
Speaker 1: which it seems to be like the direction that a

536
00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 1: lot of the media coverage takes, the less likely the

537
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:40,240
Speaker 1: people are going to be to be willing to admit

538
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 1: to that. So just like this truth that's in between,

539
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: that's like, this is something that is happening to you know,

540
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: it was not the Cuban government and it wasn't a

541
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,959
Speaker 1: Russian secret weapon that caused it, but it is something

542
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,560
Speaker 1: that's happening to you Like that would be the best

543
00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: outcome for everybody involved, But it feels like we've now,

544
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,080
Speaker 1: you know, put it into this like well then you

545
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,120
Speaker 1: were lying type thing. And I under I understand that

546
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,279
Speaker 1: being the response because they were used to try to

547
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:11,759
Speaker 1: like you know, fund World War three or whatever would

548
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:14,160
Speaker 1: have happened if the people who claimed it was an

549
00:36:14,160 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: attack got their way. But um, hey, but then that

550
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:24,800
Speaker 1: started anyway, right, yeah, yeah, exactly. Um. So that that's

551
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 1: I think just generally the thing that I've taken from

552
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:32,760
Speaker 1: this beyond you know, a better understanding of how fullish

553
00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: at the US government is and is like just a

554
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:43,600
Speaker 1: greater appreciation for how everybody's vulnerability to um, to this

555
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: sort of psychogenic and functional disorders and um, you know,

556
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: if you've taken night Will, like so I always assumed

557
00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,319
Speaker 1: Nike Will was bluish green because like that's relaxing color,

558
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:02,320
Speaker 1: and day Quill was you know more a more vigorous

559
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 1: orange because that's like a color, and like that was

560
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:08,680
Speaker 1: just like good marketing, but they've actually done studies and

561
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:13,279
Speaker 1: when when I take a Nike Will, like I I

562
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:18,960
Speaker 1: actually sleep better physically, my body reacts to that suggest

563
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:21,680
Speaker 1: that power of suggestion that color in a way that

564
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:25,200
Speaker 1: is like physical and scientific like that that is what

565
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:29,040
Speaker 1: their studies have found. So it's just like the bit

566
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,440
Speaker 1: of placebo effects like to the ac I think the

567
00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: effect is so much more powerful the effects and blue

568
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 1: gatorade is more refreshing. Yeah, all relaxing pills are blue,

569
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,839
Speaker 1: and all like vigorous pills are red or orange or yeah,

570
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: and there is both there and that's why that's why, um,

571
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 1: did you say that's why it's a morning here an evening?

572
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: So no, it's it's it's a huge point. Yeah yeah.

573
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:14,360
Speaker 1: And then just the like it's also the power of

574
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:17,440
Speaker 1: the mind when it comes to medicine is also not

575
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:21,240
Speaker 1: something you can monetize. Right, So that's again like falls

576
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: into what I was talking about before with like the

577
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,279
Speaker 1: big bias in American media and the big bias and

578
00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: like how the the US just works in general is

579
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 1: like if you can make money off of it. Then

580
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 1: that is going to be the truth we go with.

581
00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: And like you can't put the you know, uh meditation

582
00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:45,239
Speaker 1: in a pill necessarily balistic medicine and meditation and mindfulness

583
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 1: are not money makers. They might sell books kind of apps, right, No,

584
00:38:51,480 --> 00:38:53,920
Speaker 1: for sure, but that's its own thing. But if you're

585
00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:56,759
Speaker 1: big pharma, you have no way of commodifying that. There's

586
00:38:56,760 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: there's nothing you can't inject that into a pill because

587
00:38:59,520 --> 00:39:02,360
Speaker 1: it is something thing that is uh sub medical, that

588
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: is something that requires discipline and reading and thoughtfulness. Hold

589
00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 1: the phone. I mean, if you're listening to this on

590
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 1: a phone, you might already be holding the phone. What

591
00:39:12,719 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: I mean is we're going to pause for a second

592
00:39:14,719 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 1: and then we're gonna return to dive further into the

593
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:29,439
Speaker 1: conversation about Havana's syndrome with Jack O'Brien, and we're back.

594
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: I want to get back just Ben, you mentioned people

595
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,319
Speaker 1: around people who have reported this correct, So just were

596
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: they all water cooler conversations like how are all of

597
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,000
Speaker 1: them communicating with each other? They are all they are

598
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: all self reported and it becomes a news story, so

599
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:47,439
Speaker 1: they hear about how do they know? Okay, So yeah,

600
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: I got it. Yeah, it becomes a massive news story

601
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 1: the and they you know, a news story about your

602
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:56,960
Speaker 1: profession and about people in your specific environment who are

603
00:39:57,160 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: in other countries that you perceive where that or your

604
00:40:00,680 --> 00:40:05,280
Speaker 1: higher ups perceived to be hostile territory. And um, suddenly

605
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: it because because there is a lot a lot of

606
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,480
Speaker 1: the functional functional disorders that they talk about come with

607
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: some sort of like fear based like something that is

608
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,400
Speaker 1: destabilizing or something like that is not not always, but

609
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: a lot of the time that can be where the

610
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: sort of injury occurs out. Yeah, so we uh, this

611
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 1: is this is a great question that this also gives

612
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,000
Speaker 1: us an opportunity to talk about how the media did

613
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:36,320
Speaker 1: Cuba dirty, just like the Spanish flu which we mentioned

614
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:39,759
Speaker 1: in a previous episode, or the Kung Fu the kung flu,

615
00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 1: you know the way like yeah, all of that crap. Yeah,

616
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,640
Speaker 1: so it's um So. Havana syndrome is called Havana syndrome

617
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:52,040
Speaker 1: popularly in the West because those were where the first

618
00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: again self reported cases came from, which means that the

619
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,560
Speaker 1: government of q was judged in the court of public

620
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: opinion to be guilty based on the name. And what

621
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,799
Speaker 1: I love about adding a place name to a thing

622
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,520
Speaker 1: is that it already makes it sound shady, you know

623
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,239
Speaker 1: what I mean, like like pick a like pick a

624
00:41:16,480 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: verb you could say, you know, you could say mouse

625
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 1: click and then you add, uh, you add Florida to

626
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:26,080
Speaker 1: the front, gave it the old Florida mouse click, you

627
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,800
Speaker 1: know what I mean. That sounds weird, I know. And

628
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 1: this this happens with anything. You could call it the

629
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: you know, like tulsa elbow and people would be like gross, No,

630
00:41:37,719 --> 00:41:44,439
Speaker 1: that sounds like from the from prohibition era. I feel

631
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:51,160
Speaker 1: like the inverted speaking easy. Yes. So with this what

632
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:56,760
Speaker 1: we see is that this reporting right or people saying

633
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,919
Speaker 1: that they have experienced this. Uh. I love the point

634
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:04,240
Speaker 1: about it coming out in hostile countries. There are reports

635
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: in China, right. Uh. There are reports in of course Cuba,

636
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:13,960
Speaker 1: who vehemently denied any sort of association. Uh. There were

637
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 1: some reports in Russia pre pre the newest iteration of

638
00:42:19,920 --> 00:42:23,439
Speaker 1: the war against Ukraine, which I think went a long

639
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: way towards dismissing the idea of secret Russian technology. To

640
00:42:27,120 --> 00:42:30,200
Speaker 1: be honest, and uh, Matt, to your point, there are

641
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 1: no reports of someone in Poughkeepsie or someone in you know,

642
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 1: a more friendly country. I think there were some reports

643
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:47,759
Speaker 1: on Mexico and in Australia, Australia, Australia, Uzbekistan, Colombia, Austria.

644
00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:51,839
Speaker 1: Remember we talked about Austria um in Vienna specifically, where

645
00:42:51,960 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 1: you know, one of the spy capitals of the world,

646
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:56,879
Speaker 1: where it was being reported. And it totally makes sense, Jack,

647
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,440
Speaker 1: what you're saying when it's it's not these country ease all.

648
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 1: You can't think of all of these incidents as this

649
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: is happening in all of these different countries. It's happening

650
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 1: in the same organization essentially. Mostly isn't the government referring

651
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: to these things as anomalous health incidents so they don't

652
00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:18,480
Speaker 1: even assign some sort of continuity to these symptoms, right.

653
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,040
Speaker 1: I think the Biden administration came out and called them

654
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,319
Speaker 1: that and then that that really angered a lot of people.

655
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,200
Speaker 1: And there's been some back and forth on on whether

656
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:30,320
Speaker 1: that's an accurate way to describe it, because you know

657
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,680
Speaker 1: that that makes it sound or at least shades in

658
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,800
Speaker 1: the direction of them feeling like someone saying that what

659
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:41,160
Speaker 1: they're experiencing is not Yeah, and I mean, like when

660
00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:45,040
Speaker 1: you look at the history of mass psychogenic like illnesses

661
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,760
Speaker 1: and like you know, they are you know, people getting

662
00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:51,720
Speaker 1: like throwing up and then like suddenly hundreds of people

663
00:43:51,840 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 1: are like throwing up or you know, because of like

664
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 1: some bug that I think there was like a factory

665
00:43:57,920 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: where like a june bug is like supposedly biting people,

666
00:44:02,280 --> 00:44:05,120
Speaker 1: and everybody was throwing up, and it's like to them,

667
00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,279
Speaker 1: like they weren't making themselves throw up, like they got

668
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 1: very sick all of a sudden, every everyone Like when

669
00:44:11,239 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 1: that's happening to you, that feels absolutely real. Um. It's

670
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:19,319
Speaker 1: not a testament to how like full of it these

671
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,640
Speaker 1: people are. It's a testament to how real, um, a

672
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,759
Speaker 1: psychogenetic functional disorder feels to a human being, you know,

673
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:31,120
Speaker 1: in the grips of it. Yeah, well said, you know.

674
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: And there are other examples of the things like this

675
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:40,320
Speaker 1: throughout history, right laughing epidemics for instance, uh, the screaming

676
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 1: uh screaming kids in Malaysia. That's another episode that I think,

677
00:44:44,719 --> 00:44:49,560
Speaker 1: uh clearly checks the boxes for a psychogenic phenomenon, or

678
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:53,200
Speaker 1: like Chuck McGill's condition on better call Soul, like the

679
00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:58,120
Speaker 1: whole I have allergic to you know, electromagnetic sensitivity or

680
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: electromagnetic sensitivity. Gosh, saying e M S sensitivity is like

681
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:06,040
Speaker 1: saying a T M machine or VIN number. That's my bad, everyone.

682
00:45:06,360 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 1: Our credibility has gone. This from the abyss I'm leaving

683
00:45:12,960 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 1: this show. I can't. I can't believe you just said that.

684
00:45:15,160 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: I'm out. So what we see here, if a conspiracy exists,

685
00:45:24,480 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 1: if we think in terms of objective plausibility, it is

686
00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 1: less plausible that there is a secret sci Fi level

687
00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:40,480
Speaker 1: weapon that has only been used in these instances than

688
00:45:40,560 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: it is plausible that there are there. There is a

689
00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:52,160
Speaker 1: psychogenic phenomenon at play, and when we when we realize that,

690
00:45:52,280 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 1: when we have this benefit of retrospect, Uh. The important

691
00:45:56,520 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: thing to know is something that you have said from

692
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 1: maybe not day one, Jack, but from like let's call

693
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:05,920
Speaker 1: it figurative day seven about this. People aren't trying to

694
00:46:06,040 --> 00:46:10,799
Speaker 1: get over, they're not trying to fool anyone. They're in pain,

695
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: they're concerned, they want to feel well. And the conspiracy

696
00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 1: I think that is plausible is that opportunistic political forces

697
00:46:23,239 --> 00:46:27,400
Speaker 1: saw this as an avenue for funding. No question, have

698
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,479
Speaker 1: there been any intimations toward a class action lawsuit type

699
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 1: situation with that many folks feeling connected, not not I

700
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:41,920
Speaker 1: mean intimations. Uh, I appreciate that we're not super really

701
00:46:42,239 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 1: because uh if because working for a government is not

702
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,520
Speaker 1: at that level, is not quite the same as like,

703
00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 1: you know, working for I heard or something I did

704
00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 1: see an interesting thing that a CIA task force found

705
00:46:59,080 --> 00:47:01,399
Speaker 1: where they said that a lot of these cases could

706
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:04,880
Speaker 1: be attributed to It was described as random and completely

707
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:09,080
Speaker 1: pedestrian factors, things like, um like being close to faulty

708
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: wiring or even exposure to like you know, bug zapper

709
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: type things like ultrasonic pest repellents that are designed to like,

710
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 1: you know, get rid of possums and rodents. Dang, that's

711
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 1: how they're getting rid of possums and rodents and other countries.

712
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,800
Speaker 1: That's that's they don't extreme them what happened going on?

713
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,360
Speaker 1: Um No, it could have happened here. It could have

714
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,320
Speaker 1: happened while they were home, you know, like like the

715
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,000
Speaker 1: actual thing that led to the symptoms may not have

716
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: had anything to do with their their travels abroad totally.

717
00:47:37,080 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: And I do think that that is that that is

718
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:44,799
Speaker 1: also one of those explanations you need because people don't.

719
00:47:45,840 --> 00:47:48,800
Speaker 1: People think it's either it's something physically happened to you

720
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:52,040
Speaker 1: or you're making it up right, and so we need

721
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,200
Speaker 1: to say, oh, there must be like a bug zapper

722
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: that is close too close to your head when you

723
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: sleep at night, and therefore like that's what's causing this. Um.

724
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 1: We we also don't know though, I mean we there

725
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: cell phones cause that we have yet to fully wrap

726
00:48:08,239 --> 00:48:10,800
Speaker 1: our heads around, you know, I mean totally. Yeah, this

727
00:48:10,920 --> 00:48:14,760
Speaker 1: podcast is brought to you by Orkin. Are you tired

728
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 1: of your loved ones not having headaches and havana syndrome?

729
00:48:23,239 --> 00:48:27,200
Speaker 1: You're afraid of accidentally having a child? Put your phone

730
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 1: in your pocket and keep it just like You'll be

731
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:35,640
Speaker 1: fine pocket phone. Yes, the two thousand twenty two of vusectomy,

732
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,160
Speaker 1: they're calling it killing your boys since nine. Yeah, these

733
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:43,520
Speaker 1: are ad ideas that we're just giving them to you guys.

734
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 1: But I think this is such a um. This is

735
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 1: a compassionate and objective understanding of what people mean when

736
00:48:56,040 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: they say they are having havana syndrome. Also, another thing

737
00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:05,960
Speaker 1: that argues against it being a directed energy weapon of

738
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:10,600
Speaker 1: some sort is that there has not been any sort

739
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:15,560
Speaker 1: of experiment to replicate the effects. Somehow, there has not

740
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:19,600
Speaker 1: been a successful experiment to do so therefore there's not

741
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:24,799
Speaker 1: a comparable metric, and of course there's no agreement. Well,

742
00:49:25,200 --> 00:49:27,600
Speaker 1: there's also the recording they got of the sound that

743
00:49:27,760 --> 00:49:32,719
Speaker 1: they heard in Havana that was determined to be crickets,

744
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:38,560
Speaker 1: I believe. Um, so people spread that around a lot,

745
00:49:38,680 --> 00:49:40,920
Speaker 1: and that is like very embarrassing for the people who

746
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:46,040
Speaker 1: were making the claim. And but that that is that's

747
00:49:46,080 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: another piece of evidence where I was like, oh wow,

748
00:49:49,239 --> 00:49:53,400
Speaker 1: this definitely is not um. You know, I've been in

749
00:49:53,520 --> 00:49:56,680
Speaker 1: foreign countries where like the birds sound different and I'm like,

750
00:49:56,920 --> 00:50:00,920
Speaker 1: what is that? That is so strange? And then it

751
00:50:01,040 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: just turns out as the birth that I've never one

752
00:50:03,120 --> 00:50:05,399
Speaker 1: of these things where it was for a time kind

753
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,840
Speaker 1: of taken on as like pet kind of talking points

754
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,400
Speaker 1: for a lot of high level government officials and like politicians,

755
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,280
Speaker 1: and now they're kind of walking it back a little bit. Yeah. Again,

756
00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:17,520
Speaker 1: that's um part of it. If we if we are

757
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:21,359
Speaker 1: to put on our cynic hats, then we could say

758
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: part of the cause for that step back is that

759
00:50:26,719 --> 00:50:29,320
Speaker 1: maybe maybe it's like n f T S, you know,

760
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:32,160
Speaker 1: maybe the grift is run its course, but maybe we

761
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: got the funding already and so now it's onto the next, uh,

762
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 1: the next impossible expensive problem. Well, also Obama had opened

763
00:50:40,880 --> 00:50:43,640
Speaker 1: up Cuba. That was very promising and like a big

764
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,680
Speaker 1: considered a big accomplishment, and so it tied in with

765
00:50:47,120 --> 00:50:51,080
Speaker 1: Trump's plan to undo everything that Obama had done to

766
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:56,000
Speaker 1: make relations worse with Cuba. So like that that that

767
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:01,080
Speaker 1: also felt very convenient for the that administration's priorities at

768
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: the time, such a narrow window. My kid and her

769
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: mom went to Cuba for that little brief moment when

770
00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:08,840
Speaker 1: it was there, when it was open, and then it

771
00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:14,799
Speaker 1: was like, nope, just kidding, We're cool. You guys are

772
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: thinking about this way too small. Look, this is not

773
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: some political thing. Okay, okay, okay. We got two major

774
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: things that happened around this time. First of all, people

775
00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:27,320
Speaker 1: especially spies across the world, are coming down with this

776
00:51:27,440 --> 00:51:33,160
Speaker 1: weird mysterious illness. The other thing, UFOs are real. According

777
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:41,960
Speaker 1: to the Navy, come on touching on the tiptouch, most things,

778
00:51:42,480 --> 00:51:46,040
Speaker 1: most things in the sky and human experience are UFOs,

779
00:51:46,200 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: and that they are unidentified, like you know what, you

780
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:54,279
Speaker 1: know what, matt Um, The next Dave and Buster's trip

781
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,719
Speaker 1: is on me. If you nailed it, if the last

782
00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,760
Speaker 1: one was on you was it? Yeah? I think, jeez,

783
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 1: this is my other story that when I start talking

784
00:52:05,719 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: about it, everyone's like, oh boy, hearing again because I'm

785
00:52:08,880 --> 00:52:10,799
Speaker 1: just like, how are we how do we talk about

786
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:16,479
Speaker 1: anything else? There's UFOs? But it does I am sad

787
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:18,719
Speaker 1: to say it does fit some of the things, like

788
00:52:19,400 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: it does seem like at least the military being on

789
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: board with the spreading of those videos could be uh

790
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:29,760
Speaker 1: them preparing to use that as a reason to start

791
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 1: really investing in in weapons that can keep up with

792
00:52:34,200 --> 00:52:39,440
Speaker 1: the space whatever this thing is man. Yeah, you mentioned

793
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:42,640
Speaker 1: if you identify it as a psychogenic syndrome, then perhaps

794
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 1: it could be treated. Is this something that would require psychotherapy?

795
00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 1: Is there a medical route? What? What is the treatment

796
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,600
Speaker 1: when it is recognized for what it is? Yeah? It

797
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:53,920
Speaker 1: was really interesting. They talked about this case of this

798
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:57,959
Speaker 1: of this young man who had like uh slipped disc

799
00:52:58,080 --> 00:53:02,120
Speaker 1: things and then had some some experience and it started

800
00:53:02,160 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: devolving and evolving to the point where he couldn't walk

801
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 1: after two years. And he was having these arguments where

802
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,879
Speaker 1: people would say, we think it's conversion disorder, we think

803
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,600
Speaker 1: it's they would use the term psychogenic and he fought

804
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: them and he dug in and he was like, I'm

805
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: not making this up. You guys don't experience. You don't

806
00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:24,160
Speaker 1: understand I'm experiencing this. And then this expert who's like

807
00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:28,360
Speaker 1: the foremost expert on functional disorders, he saw a YouTube

808
00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:30,400
Speaker 1: video from them. His mom sent it to him and

809
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:34,480
Speaker 1: he had the open mindedness to watch it, went to

810
00:53:34,560 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: their clinic and by so it sounds like it's uh,

811
00:53:39,400 --> 00:53:42,200
Speaker 1: it's a variety of things, but it's not really like

812
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 1: psychotherapy because that was one of the things that he

813
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,680
Speaker 1: was trying during the two years when it was getting worse.

814
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: It's a lot of um cognitive behavioral therapy. It's like

815
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:54,560
Speaker 1: trying to move his leg well like under hypnosis or

816
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: well like meditating and well doing these feedback things. And

817
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,400
Speaker 1: it was a week of hard work, but he walked

818
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:06,040
Speaker 1: out of the clinic. Because they it is a neural

819
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: they treat it as a neurological disorder. Your conscious mind

820
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 1: doesn't have access to your Your conscious mind is like

821
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: a spotlight that has is pointed at you know, one

822
00:54:18,000 --> 00:54:22,120
Speaker 1: small portion of this vast universe that is the totality

823
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:24,560
Speaker 1: of your mind and who you are as a being.

824
00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 1: And so there by like doing just focusing on the

825
00:54:29,760 --> 00:54:32,840
Speaker 1: neurology and doing exercises and taking it out of the

826
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 1: realm of this is something we just need to convince

827
00:54:35,440 --> 00:54:37,920
Speaker 1: you to stop doing and more in the realm of

828
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:41,360
Speaker 1: this is something that is happening to you. Um because

829
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,239
Speaker 1: of neurological things we don't fully understand. But here's how

830
00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:47,200
Speaker 1: we get to it. Like that helped him. So yeah,

831
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,400
Speaker 1: that go going with and they actually reached out to

832
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,239
Speaker 1: this person who's the foremost expert on functional disorders and

833
00:54:53,400 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: he was prevented from uh like participating in the study

834
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:01,839
Speaker 1: into Havana syndrome because is I think of the dug

835
00:55:01,920 --> 00:55:06,640
Speaker 1: in nature for their purposes. Yeah, right, what we're seeing then,

836
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:10,080
Speaker 1: I would argue, are some feedback loops, not all of

837
00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,760
Speaker 1: which are cynical, not all of which are profit driven.

838
00:55:13,160 --> 00:55:16,720
Speaker 1: But we're seeing that people add force to their stories

839
00:55:16,880 --> 00:55:21,399
Speaker 1: because civilization is sort of a story everybody tells each other,

840
00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:26,200
Speaker 1: right and life is all about relationships. But now that

841
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:29,440
Speaker 1: we have you, uh no, we have you Jack again,

842
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 1: one of the busiest guys and podcasting, I suggest we

843
00:55:34,719 --> 00:55:37,920
Speaker 1: uh we quiz you a little bit or get your opinion,

844
00:55:38,239 --> 00:55:44,160
Speaker 1: get your opinion on on on on other things considered

845
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 1: conspiracy theories. I believe that we have. I think we

846
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,279
Speaker 1: without conclusively proving the case we have, we have laid

847
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: out some really strong arguments for the psychogenetic perspective of

848
00:55:57,800 --> 00:56:03,879
Speaker 1: Havannah syndrome. But start here. Um, maybe we joked about

849
00:56:03,920 --> 00:56:07,919
Speaker 1: decision tree and you sorry, maybe maybe we play maybe

850
00:56:07,960 --> 00:56:11,080
Speaker 1: we play true false? How about that? Uh? And maybe

851
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:14,560
Speaker 1: Matt Nolan I can ask you some true false questions

852
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:16,839
Speaker 1: up to you. I feel like I'm about to get

853
00:56:16,960 --> 00:56:22,960
Speaker 1: podcast jumped, like you guys are gonna like, so here

854
00:56:23,040 --> 00:56:26,320
Speaker 1: we go, Jack, and it promised is not? Uh, this

855
00:56:26,560 --> 00:56:30,800
Speaker 1: is not gotcha podcasting. There's not podcast jumping. Uh. We

856
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,399
Speaker 1: also can confirm that we haven't discussed these things off air.

857
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: So what we're getting here are organic reactions off the cuff,

858
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: I hope. Uh. First things first, you believe the the

859
00:56:43,960 --> 00:56:50,680
Speaker 1: we're true false NG the official story about the jfk assassination. Uh. False.

860
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:53,960
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think it's full correct now that

861
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,120
Speaker 1: it was just Oswald. Yeah, yeah, No, I don't. I

862
00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: don't think it was just Oswald now just doesn't make

863
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:04,400
Speaker 1: sense logistically, It doesn't Honestly a little surprise Jack honestly

864
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: just because wow, that's I mean, that's cool. It's actually

865
00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:11,640
Speaker 1: the thing the thing I believe is also like kind

866
00:57:11,640 --> 00:57:16,640
Speaker 1: of boring. It's the Secret Service agent in the trailing

867
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:24,640
Speaker 1: car accidentally um shooting him, which because that's yeah, it's

868
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:29,720
Speaker 1: it's interesting. So it's this guy who is used by

869
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: CBS News, uh to test the possibility of Oswald getting

870
00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:39,280
Speaker 1: off that many shots. And this guy is a gun expert,

871
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: he owns his own gun shop. Um, he does the

872
00:57:42,560 --> 00:57:45,120
Speaker 1: demonstration and is able to like hit the target moving

873
00:57:45,160 --> 00:57:47,280
Speaker 1: in a car on CBS News. Like this is right

874
00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:50,600
Speaker 1: after the assassination because right away conspiracy theories pop up.

875
00:57:51,000 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: That guy like gets it in his head. He's like,

876
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 1: but there's something about the whole thing, Like as he's

877
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,560
Speaker 1: doing this demonstration and he's like, there's something about it

878
00:57:59,680 --> 00:58:02,480
Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense, and so he just like really

879
00:58:02,600 --> 00:58:06,600
Speaker 1: digs into the ballistics and he's like, that third bullet

880
00:58:07,400 --> 00:58:11,280
Speaker 1: doesn't act the way that the like full metal jackets

881
00:58:11,560 --> 00:58:16,480
Speaker 1: coming from. Yeah, yeah, it doesn't act the way right

882
00:58:16,760 --> 00:58:20,880
Speaker 1: like the the um third the shot that you know,

883
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,480
Speaker 1: blew off the side of his head, to put it bluntly,

884
00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: acted more like a assault rifle bullet that you know

885
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:33,840
Speaker 1: dissolves upon impact. And he realized that's what the Secret

886
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,400
Speaker 1: Service agents behind him we're carrying. And he had also

887
00:58:37,520 --> 00:58:40,920
Speaker 1: like traced it back to where uh he was like,

888
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:43,600
Speaker 1: it wasn't coming from where Oswald was. It was actually

889
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: coming from directly behind him if you just look at

890
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:50,120
Speaker 1: the physics of it. And um, so he and then

891
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: he found a picture and there's a Secret Service agent

892
00:58:53,800 --> 00:58:56,480
Speaker 1: holding the exact gun that he said it looked like

893
00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:00,680
Speaker 1: the based on that would have been fired ing. And

894
00:59:01,720 --> 00:59:04,479
Speaker 1: you know, this guy Bonner manager has this book called

895
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:10,320
Speaker 1: More Mortal Error and their theory is that they it's

896
00:59:10,360 --> 00:59:12,320
Speaker 1: not really a theory. The guys were out drinking all

897
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:15,720
Speaker 1: night the night before, very hungover. Um. When the first

898
00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:20,120
Speaker 1: shot is fired, the car stop because they're like, what's happening? Uh,

899
00:59:20,280 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: And that causes the rear car to slow down, he

900
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: falls over and lets the shot off. Um. And you

901
00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:30,520
Speaker 1: you would expect that to be a thing that like

902
00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:33,520
Speaker 1: everybody would have seen that. But the first of all

903
00:59:33,600 --> 00:59:37,960
Speaker 1: people E witnesses dents, Yeah, and I witnesses did report

904
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:42,320
Speaker 1: smelling uh, gun smoke at street level, which shouldn't have

905
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:47,440
Speaker 1: been happening if Yeah, and seeing gun smoke and also,

906
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:49,760
Speaker 1: like you, it was the middle of day, so it's

907
00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:52,560
Speaker 1: not like you would have seen like a tracer or

908
00:59:52,920 --> 00:59:56,360
Speaker 1: you know, the flash of the muzzle necessarily. Um. But

909
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:00,400
Speaker 1: so that that I think there was a cover up

910
01:00:00,440 --> 01:00:03,240
Speaker 1: because of that. Uh, this guy Bonner manager has a

911
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,280
Speaker 1: whole book about it that's really interesting that people should

912
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:10,000
Speaker 1: check out. But also that's uh Bill James, the moneyball guy. Uh,

913
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 1: you know, he had that book Popular Crime or I

914
01:00:13,880 --> 01:00:16,000
Speaker 1: think that's what he called it. But he went he

915
01:00:16,120 --> 01:00:19,200
Speaker 1: read every one of the books on the JFK assassination theory,

916
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:21,360
Speaker 1: and he he's like, this is the only one that

917
01:00:21,520 --> 01:00:27,160
Speaker 1: makes sense, Like of all stories that people put together. Yeah,

918
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: a lot of the other stuff demands um a pretty

919
01:00:32,160 --> 01:00:38,160
Speaker 1: impressive level of subterfusion cooperation, which, while not impossible, is

920
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,120
Speaker 1: increasingly less plausible. I love that you bring up the

921
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:46,840
Speaker 1: secret service aspect because, as we found on this show, man, honestly,

922
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:51,640
Speaker 1: a lot of the real conspiracies are someone messing up

923
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:55,120
Speaker 1: in a position of power and then attempting to look

924
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: like they did not mess upright, right, That's like the

925
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:04,479
Speaker 1: cover up is let us continue to appear competent, but sorry.

926
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:07,240
Speaker 1: There's also really interesting stuff. I believed that for a

927
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,000
Speaker 1: long time. And then there's some really interesting stuff about

928
01:01:10,000 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: George H. W. Bush, who uh didn't really have a

929
01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:15,920
Speaker 1: connection with the CIA before they made him the head

930
01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:19,480
Speaker 1: of the CIA, And the only real connection you can

931
01:01:19,520 --> 01:01:23,680
Speaker 1: find on paper is that on the day of JFK's assassination,

932
01:01:23,760 --> 01:01:26,520
Speaker 1: he's in Dallas, but they like changed the records so

933
01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:28,560
Speaker 1: that it didn't seem like he was in Dallas. And

934
01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:31,200
Speaker 1: then there's like a call to CIA headquarters and it's

935
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 1: like George Bush, Why George Bush is in Dallas? And um,

936
01:01:35,400 --> 01:01:38,680
Speaker 1: it's also like Mr Dallas. I mean that's yeah, that's true.

937
01:01:39,840 --> 01:01:46,240
Speaker 1: If oh, you guys know his street name Texas Texas, Texas.

938
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,960
Speaker 1: That made me very suspicious of the CIA. But I

939
01:01:49,040 --> 01:01:51,760
Speaker 1: still think it's probably more likely what you're talking about,

940
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,320
Speaker 1: which is people messing up and trying to cover it up.

941
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 1: I remember that old movie Bush Does Dallas. Um, so

942
01:01:57,760 --> 01:02:00,640
Speaker 1: you guys, I've got I've got one more question for you. Um,

943
01:02:00,960 --> 01:02:03,400
Speaker 1: I've got one. If that's okay, really quickly, because I

944
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:08,400
Speaker 1: know we're running up. Solved. We solved Havannah syndrome, we

945
01:02:08,560 --> 01:02:12,760
Speaker 1: solved the JFK assassination. So like, let's let's get to

946
01:02:12,840 --> 01:02:15,520
Speaker 1: the next Well, this is my this is my Havanna

947
01:02:15,560 --> 01:02:18,640
Speaker 1: syndrome topic that you're mentioning where I bring it up

948
01:02:18,680 --> 01:02:23,400
Speaker 1: way too often, jack up. Do you think it is

949
01:02:23,520 --> 01:02:27,280
Speaker 1: possible that we are living in a simulation? Yes, I

950
01:02:27,360 --> 01:02:32,920
Speaker 1: think it's possible. How possible? Check? I have no evidence

951
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:41,200
Speaker 1: that we're not to And when I've gotten too high

952
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:43,280
Speaker 1: in the past, I don't do any of that anymore.

953
01:02:43,360 --> 01:02:44,919
Speaker 1: But when I had gotten too high in the past,

954
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:48,120
Speaker 1: I was absolutely convinced that we were living in a simulation.

955
01:02:49,680 --> 01:02:53,760
Speaker 1: That mind synct right there exactly. It depends on your

956
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:56,840
Speaker 1: definition of a simulation. I mean, we are in an

957
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:00,880
Speaker 1: environment that was created, you know, without our our involvement

958
01:03:01,160 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: or knowledge, and everything we do is just to kind

959
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,880
Speaker 1: of like deteriorate it. So like is is life just

960
01:03:07,040 --> 01:03:09,960
Speaker 1: by its very definition, not a simulation? Like you know,

961
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:12,920
Speaker 1: a lot of philosophers talk about the theory of the cave,

962
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:15,560
Speaker 1: the idea that we're just looking at like projections on

963
01:03:15,600 --> 01:03:17,880
Speaker 1: a wall. You know, I just don't think it was

964
01:03:18,560 --> 01:03:20,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. I just think it's a very just

965
01:03:22,040 --> 01:03:24,960
Speaker 1: I think it's very interesting and it's it's but bro, like,

966
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:29,320
Speaker 1: what's our definition of us? Man? Sorry, as much as

967
01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:34,680
Speaker 1: the thing that made me the most uh uninterested in

968
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,440
Speaker 1: that because I do think like there's really interesting conversations

969
01:03:37,480 --> 01:03:40,520
Speaker 1: about the simulation stuff. But then uh now I feel

970
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:42,960
Speaker 1: like everybody heard about it through Elon Musk, and I'm

971
01:03:43,000 --> 01:03:49,880
Speaker 1: like dah because because didn't he say that on like somewhere, No, man,

972
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: we were talking about telegraphic universe theory and what has

973
01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:57,000
Speaker 1: that been like two thousand eleven. Oh yeah, there's no

974
01:03:57,560 --> 01:03:59,720
Speaker 1: way to make something uncool than for Elon Musk a

975
01:03:59,760 --> 01:04:02,000
Speaker 1: twe know that. That bummed me out so much. I

976
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 1: was like, I love this theory, though, um so is

977
01:04:06,840 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 1: yours based on the idea that like mathematically, like you know,

978
01:04:11,920 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 1: things are simulations are gonna be getting more and more realistic,

979
01:04:15,640 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: and there will be more and more people making more

980
01:04:18,440 --> 01:04:21,880
Speaker 1: and more simulations and more and more opportunities to create them.

981
01:04:21,920 --> 01:04:25,640
Speaker 1: So what it's actually more likely that it's a simulation

982
01:04:25,760 --> 01:04:32,200
Speaker 1: than actual physical like reality. I don't know. All I

983
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:37,160
Speaker 1: know is that that feels correct to me more so

984
01:04:37,520 --> 01:04:41,080
Speaker 1: than some of the other act probably actual explanations of

985
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:44,440
Speaker 1: what we are right now, Like what all this experiences

986
01:04:44,520 --> 01:04:48,200
Speaker 1: that we're all sharing. Um, yeah, I don't know, and

987
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:49,840
Speaker 1: I'm not high and I haven't been high in a

988
01:04:49,920 --> 01:04:55,200
Speaker 1: long time. Reality is a psychogenic illness. Oh man, here

989
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:58,840
Speaker 1: we go. We're done done. So yeah, you just nailed it.

990
01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:02,880
Speaker 1: It's like a Soundguard lyric. It surely is, actually, and

991
01:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,760
Speaker 1: if they play the guitar in a weird enough time signature,

992
01:05:06,040 --> 01:05:09,120
Speaker 1: no one's gonna question it. Once again, go to genius

993
01:05:09,240 --> 01:05:11,960
Speaker 1: dot com if you want to learn the truth behind

994
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,320
Speaker 1: all of your favorite song lyrics. I think we have

995
01:05:16,080 --> 01:05:17,680
Speaker 1: you know, we're getting we're getting to the end. I

996
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 1: think we have time for just uh one more true

997
01:05:21,800 --> 01:05:27,400
Speaker 1: false conspiracy from Jack O'Brien mattuh Matt Frederick did one?

998
01:05:28,040 --> 01:05:31,840
Speaker 1: I did one? Uh, Noel, the honor goes to you. Well,

999
01:05:31,880 --> 01:05:36,720
Speaker 1: I didn't really prepare for this, Holy cow, just pick

1000
01:05:36,760 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 1: your favorite. Man, we've done some favorite Um okay true

1001
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:45,000
Speaker 1: false Uh. There are species of sentient life that have

1002
01:05:45,200 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 1: not yet been discovered. Species of sentient life that have

1003
01:05:49,080 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: not yet been discovered, So that is that could be

1004
01:05:51,920 --> 01:05:57,280
Speaker 1: extra whether they bet or or aliens. You know, I

1005
01:05:57,400 --> 01:06:02,840
Speaker 1: definitely have an anti cryptid bias, like I'm think I

1006
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: think we would have found them we would have found it,

1007
01:06:05,280 --> 01:06:08,720
Speaker 1: would have found something this planet. So let's let's let

1008
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:11,240
Speaker 1: us throw that part out. Let's just go with the uh.

1009
01:06:11,640 --> 01:06:14,440
Speaker 1: You know, however, many trillions of other planets there are,

1010
01:06:14,640 --> 01:06:17,520
Speaker 1: you know, that we can't possibly reach. Is a little

1011
01:06:17,640 --> 01:06:19,840
Speaker 1: self serving to believe that we are the only one,

1012
01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: the only forms of life, you know. And I have

1013
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:24,840
Speaker 1: nothing to back this up with, but I do, from

1014
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:28,040
Speaker 1: a philosophical and spiritual kind of standpoint, think there has

1015
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:31,680
Speaker 1: to be But that's just been It's time, It's time,

1016
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:40,240
Speaker 1: right now, let's go ver, let's do this. Someone on

1017
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:42,400
Speaker 1: Twitter was asking us if we're going to do a

1018
01:06:42,560 --> 01:06:47,560
Speaker 1: k but now we're like fair maid paradox. So no.

1019
01:06:47,800 --> 01:06:53,280
Speaker 1: Your original question was is there other undiscovered sentient or

1020
01:06:53,520 --> 01:07:01,439
Speaker 1: intelligent life somewhere or there? Was stated in the first Yeah,

1021
01:07:01,440 --> 01:07:04,760
Speaker 1: I think I think true there is. Um. I don't

1022
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:08,880
Speaker 1: know that they've visited us. UM. I do have a

1023
01:07:09,200 --> 01:07:12,200
Speaker 1: theory that involves military industrial complex that like, they have

1024
01:07:12,400 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 1: visited us and there and the fact that they're not

1025
01:07:16,000 --> 01:07:19,040
Speaker 1: declaring war on us is the reason it's being kept

1026
01:07:19,080 --> 01:07:22,280
Speaker 1: away from us as a conspiracy because they the military

1027
01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,800
Speaker 1: wants us to think that Well, yeah, sure, every advanced

1028
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:28,880
Speaker 1: species is going to immediately attack you. That's why we

1029
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 1: need to like build up all this arsenal and so

1030
01:07:31,880 --> 01:07:34,880
Speaker 1: like that that was there. There's a really interesting one

1031
01:07:34,960 --> 01:07:38,240
Speaker 1: of the like more credible alien sightings was at a

1032
01:07:38,320 --> 01:07:41,439
Speaker 1: school and like the military came in and like shut

1033
01:07:41,560 --> 01:07:44,480
Speaker 1: it down, And I spent a lot of time thinking

1034
01:07:44,480 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 1: about that. I was like, why does what does the

1035
01:07:46,240 --> 01:07:48,360
Speaker 1: military have tied up in this? Wouldn't they just be

1036
01:07:48,480 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 1: like tell us the truth, like tell us what what

1037
01:07:50,800 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 1: you know? But instead they just shut it down. It's controlled.

1038
01:07:54,520 --> 01:07:57,880
Speaker 1: But I wonder, like what they're so afraid of, Why

1039
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:00,360
Speaker 1: they're so afraid of that message getting out that gets

1040
01:08:00,840 --> 01:08:05,720
Speaker 1: that it invalidates their whole killer be kill worldview. If

1041
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 1: there are aliens who are just coming down and like

1042
01:08:08,680 --> 01:08:12,320
Speaker 1: basically engaging in tourism, and there's just like they're they're

1043
01:08:12,320 --> 01:08:15,520
Speaker 1: advanced enough to destroy us, but they're just like, hey man,

1044
01:08:15,640 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 1: we're just like we we think the oceans cool, so

1045
01:08:18,560 --> 01:08:21,280
Speaker 1: God forbid their benevolent and then all of a sudden

1046
01:08:21,360 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 1: don't need the government's protection anymore. Right, Well, that's yeah,

1047
01:08:25,280 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: that that is I think if there is a conspiracy

1048
01:08:27,800 --> 01:08:30,320
Speaker 1: to cover up aliens, I think that is the thing

1049
01:08:31,040 --> 01:08:34,560
Speaker 1: that they're covering up is that they're benevolent and like that.

1050
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 1: There was also a lot of alien sighting activity around

1051
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 1: nuclear weapons, and I think it was just them being like,

1052
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:44,120
Speaker 1: we don't want you guys to shoot your eye out,

1053
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:52,679
Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, you're not you're not qualified because yeah, yeah,

1054
01:08:52,760 --> 01:08:56,439
Speaker 1: the secret is that UFOs or so, the secret is

1055
01:08:56,520 --> 01:09:01,800
Speaker 1: that extraterrestrial or interdimensional. Uh of these exist, but they're

1056
01:09:02,000 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 1: just uncharacteristically chill, they're inconveniently chill, inconveniently for the military chill.

1057
01:09:08,640 --> 01:09:12,880
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, Okay, Now I accept that I could.

1058
01:09:13,960 --> 01:09:17,600
Speaker 1: It's it's a reality in which I would aspire to

1059
01:09:17,800 --> 01:09:22,600
Speaker 1: live and exist. Uh not you were you were referencing Prometheus.

1060
01:09:23,080 --> 01:09:26,200
Speaker 1: I just watched Prometheus again, and every time I see

1061
01:09:26,280 --> 01:09:32,400
Speaker 1: that movie, like, it's not my favorite in the cool

1062
01:09:32,439 --> 01:09:37,599
Speaker 1: ideas well, Prometheus was flawed, Like think about the title, Yes,

1063
01:09:37,720 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 1: but that that opening sequence where it's an extra terrestrial

1064
01:09:43,120 --> 01:09:46,960
Speaker 1: intelligent species that I believe that's on Earth and not

1065
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,640
Speaker 1: on that planet that they end up on. But the

1066
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:53,280
Speaker 1: but they got seed the planets, like the pan Spermia thing, right,

1067
01:09:53,360 --> 01:09:56,000
Speaker 1: They see the planet and then all life evolves out

1068
01:09:56,040 --> 01:10:00,720
Speaker 1: of that that one whatever your cup that uh, I

1069
01:10:00,760 --> 01:10:04,160
Speaker 1: don't know. That always just makes my mind real When

1070
01:10:04,200 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 1: I think about evolution and could evolution have been a

1071
01:10:08,160 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 1: process that was just kick started right instead of just

1072
01:10:11,320 --> 01:10:14,640
Speaker 1: something that naturally occurs, My mind just goes everywhere And

1073
01:10:14,680 --> 01:10:18,360
Speaker 1: I think, you, man, I think about I think this

1074
01:10:18,640 --> 01:10:22,840
Speaker 1: is I think this is a beautiful moment for us

1075
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:27,560
Speaker 1: to hold it a day for now. Uh Jack, you

1076
01:10:27,800 --> 01:10:33,519
Speaker 1: have gone three for three on true false. Also, the

1077
01:10:33,680 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 1: three of the three of us didn't work on this.

1078
01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:41,560
Speaker 1: We didn't secret to fight good questions. You happen to

1079
01:10:41,680 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: hit all like three things I love talking about on

1080
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:48,280
Speaker 1: the show as any Daily like guys, I'll tell you so.

1081
01:10:48,840 --> 01:10:51,000
Speaker 1: I don't think any listener is gonna believe we weren't

1082
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:54,479
Speaker 1: stoned for the last half hour this conversation, but I

1083
01:10:54,640 --> 01:10:59,599
Speaker 1: promise we're not. That's right, man, Hey, if you don't

1084
01:10:59,640 --> 01:11:01,960
Speaker 1: listen to the Daily See guys, seriously do that, like

1085
01:11:02,000 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 1: at least check it out, give it a try. It's

1086
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,560
Speaker 1: it's worth your time. It is. Uh And where we

1087
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,920
Speaker 1: might be making Jack uncomfortable by saying that in front

1088
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:18,800
Speaker 1: of you, but but so so the beers hitting Matt

1089
01:11:21,360 --> 01:11:25,840
Speaker 1: uh so right, So UM, so maybe maybe we will

1090
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,040
Speaker 1: have that cryptic rapattle or let's make it a cipher

1091
01:11:29,520 --> 01:11:32,519
Speaker 1: uh and not quite a hostile in the future. Right,

1092
01:11:32,640 --> 01:11:34,320
Speaker 1: we don't need to take all our cues from the

1093
01:11:34,360 --> 01:11:40,040
Speaker 1: military industrial complex. But in the meantime, Jack, Uh, where

1094
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:44,519
Speaker 1: can people learn more about you? Uh? Your work and

1095
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:48,400
Speaker 1: your other shows. Jack doesn't just do Daily Zeitgeist. Uh,

1096
01:11:48,560 --> 01:11:52,840
Speaker 1: you also have mad Boosties. Yeah. Yeah, so you can

1097
01:11:52,920 --> 01:11:55,519
Speaker 1: find me on Twitter at Jack Underscore O'Brien and no

1098
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:59,639
Speaker 1: other social media's uh. And then yeah, twice to day

1099
01:12:01,000 --> 01:12:05,360
Speaker 1: at the Daily Zeitgeist. And we also have, um, the

1100
01:12:05,479 --> 01:12:10,800
Speaker 1: dumbest NBA podcast in America, I think is what I I.

1101
01:12:11,000 --> 01:12:13,639
Speaker 1: I can't imagine a dumber one. Um. And it's Miles

1102
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:16,200
Speaker 1: and I just talking about the NBA. Uh. And somehow

1103
01:12:16,240 --> 01:12:20,439
Speaker 1: you sold the actual NBA on this partnered with us.

1104
01:12:21,600 --> 01:12:25,160
Speaker 1: So it's the third thing we record that day, and

1105
01:12:25,320 --> 01:12:28,160
Speaker 1: we're just punchy at that point. We're just like, I

1106
01:12:28,240 --> 01:12:32,240
Speaker 1: don't know, but we we love the NBA, but we

1107
01:12:33,040 --> 01:12:35,840
Speaker 1: I the only thing I route against is like the

1108
01:12:36,040 --> 01:12:39,120
Speaker 1: NBA media and all like the hot take a sphere

1109
01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:42,519
Speaker 1: Like I I just love the players and the beauty

1110
01:12:42,600 --> 01:12:47,599
Speaker 1: of the game. So it's really just an NBA appreciation podcast. Um,

1111
01:12:48,160 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 1: and it is in partnership with the NBA. So that

1112
01:12:52,360 --> 01:12:54,559
Speaker 1: was a pretty cool conversation. I gotta ask you guys.

1113
01:12:54,600 --> 01:12:58,639
Speaker 1: You know how when you spend a lot of time

1114
01:12:59,479 --> 01:13:02,679
Speaker 1: thinking about something, it kind of gives you a craving

1115
01:13:03,000 --> 01:13:05,519
Speaker 1: like you might we might record an episode about food

1116
01:13:05,560 --> 01:13:09,120
Speaker 1: conspiracies and then at the end we're thinking, um, hungry.

1117
01:13:10,080 --> 01:13:13,800
Speaker 1: Do you guys feel like we have havana syndrome? How's

1118
01:13:13,800 --> 01:13:16,880
Speaker 1: every you're gonna say you wanted a Cuban sandwich or something?

1119
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:21,439
Speaker 1: I am always down. I'm always down for Cuban sandwich, guys.

1120
01:13:21,600 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 1: I've I've been thinking about this specific dish from this

1121
01:13:25,640 --> 01:13:28,880
Speaker 1: Korean restaurant down the street. Hey, and I have to

1122
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:31,760
Speaker 1: go now. Thank you, Ben, You've convinced me. Get on

1123
01:13:31,840 --> 01:13:34,920
Speaker 1: to it, man, you deserve it. Treat yourself. Yeah, you know,

1124
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: wait what dishes it? You know what it is? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Okay,

1125
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: you gotta go, you gotta go. It's amazing. UM, And

1126
01:13:50,320 --> 01:13:53,479
Speaker 1: we're very lucky to uh, we're very lucky to have

1127
01:13:54,200 --> 01:13:57,920
Speaker 1: h all these cool restaurants here. But we're also very

1128
01:13:58,040 --> 01:14:02,000
Speaker 1: lucky to have all these cool colleagues. Each show is

1129
01:14:02,120 --> 01:14:05,560
Speaker 1: kind of like its own restaurant. Boy, I am just

1130
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:09,160
Speaker 1: trying my best with this analogy and segue, but whatever

1131
01:14:09,520 --> 01:14:13,720
Speaker 1: point is. Yeah, we hope you enjoyed that conversation. It

1132
01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 1: went into a lot of places that you might not expect,

1133
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,479
Speaker 1: and we continue the conversation a little bit off air,

1134
01:14:21,880 --> 01:14:25,519
Speaker 1: but as Jack said, you can check him out along

1135
01:14:25,640 --> 01:14:28,840
Speaker 1: with his writer or diet Mr Miles Gray on the

1136
01:14:29,280 --> 01:14:33,880
Speaker 1: Daily Zeitgeist. In the meantime, we need to we do.

1137
01:14:34,200 --> 01:14:37,439
Speaker 1: I tried, I tried. There's some stuff he could speak

1138
01:14:37,479 --> 01:14:40,880
Speaker 1: on from experience that he's still really on the fence

1139
01:14:42,080 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 1: to about mentioning. But we'll see, we'll see. Uh. In

1140
01:14:46,400 --> 01:14:50,560
Speaker 1: the meantime, we want to hear from you folks, that's right. Specifically,

1141
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:54,760
Speaker 1: you have you experienced something similar to havana syndrome? Do

1142
01:14:54,800 --> 01:14:57,640
Speaker 1: you know anybody who has symptoms similar to that? If so,

1143
01:14:58,240 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 1: were there any physical cause is found? Um? Do you

1144
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:05,240
Speaker 1: think this is all real? Do you think there is

1145
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,040
Speaker 1: something more to the story. We want to know and

1146
01:15:08,160 --> 01:15:10,360
Speaker 1: we try to be easy to find online. That's right.

1147
01:15:10,439 --> 01:15:13,840
Speaker 1: You can find us all over the online at Conspiracy Stuff,

1148
01:15:13,880 --> 01:15:18,000
Speaker 1: where we exist on Facebook, Twitter, and YouTube. Conspiracy stuff

1149
01:15:18,040 --> 01:15:22,080
Speaker 1: show on Instagram. Yes, never forget the YouTube channel. It

1150
01:15:22,240 --> 01:15:25,080
Speaker 1: is there, it's waiting for you. You can watch us

1151
01:15:25,240 --> 01:15:28,640
Speaker 1: in a very creepy, creepy way say these things. Not

1152
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:31,559
Speaker 1: these things, because these usually get edited out of the videos.

1153
01:15:31,840 --> 01:15:34,360
Speaker 1: But you can watch our faces while words come out

1154
01:15:34,439 --> 01:15:38,280
Speaker 1: of them. And if you are if if YouTube might

1155
01:15:38,360 --> 01:15:42,720
Speaker 1: be a lot, you know, too fast, too furious for you,

1156
01:15:42,960 --> 01:15:46,840
Speaker 1: and social meds are not your sippage of choice, then

1157
01:15:47,160 --> 01:15:49,559
Speaker 1: why not give us a phone call? We are saying

1158
01:15:49,680 --> 01:15:53,320
Speaker 1: with me one eight three three sdd w y t

1159
01:15:53,600 --> 01:15:56,880
Speaker 1: K call. You'll hear a voice, You'll hear a ding

1160
01:15:57,560 --> 01:16:00,640
Speaker 1: like so bing or whatever. Beep, it's probably more of

1161
01:16:00,680 --> 01:16:02,920
Speaker 1: a beat, and that's your signal you're off to the races.

1162
01:16:02,960 --> 01:16:05,120
Speaker 1: You've got three minutes. Those three minutes are your own.

1163
01:16:05,200 --> 01:16:07,439
Speaker 1: Tell us what's on your mind. Give yourself a cool

1164
01:16:07,560 --> 01:16:10,760
Speaker 1: nickname moniker a k A. As they like to do

1165
01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:14,000
Speaker 1: on t easy uh second most important thing. Let us

1166
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:15,799
Speaker 1: know if we can use your name and or message

1167
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:20,320
Speaker 1: on our first most important thing. Don't edit yourself. One

1168
01:16:20,439 --> 01:16:22,920
Speaker 1: call is usually all you need to reply. If you

1169
01:16:23,040 --> 01:16:25,600
Speaker 1: need more than that, then we have a way for

1170
01:16:25,840 --> 01:16:29,880
Speaker 1: you to cheat time won't be bound by three minutes.

1171
01:16:30,160 --> 01:16:32,920
Speaker 1: Tell us the story, the entirety of it. Give us

1172
01:16:33,000 --> 01:16:36,880
Speaker 1: incillery links, send us videos. We love all of it.

1173
01:16:37,200 --> 01:16:39,519
Speaker 1: We read every single email we get. All you have

1174
01:16:39,600 --> 01:16:41,599
Speaker 1: to do is drop us an old fashioned line where

1175
01:16:41,680 --> 01:17:00,200
Speaker 1: we are conspiracy and I heart radio dot com Ye

1176
01:17:02,640 --> 01:17:04,719
Speaker 1: stuff they don't want you to know. Is a production

1177
01:17:04,800 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 1: of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,

1178
01:17:08,040 --> 01:17:10,839
Speaker 1: visit the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1179
01:17:10,960 --> 01:17:12,240
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.