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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Welcome to Creature Feature, the show where we

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Speaker 1: explore the brains of animals and people. You I got

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Speaker 1: brains on my shirt. Today we'll be talking about evil killers, kidnappers, murderers,

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Speaker 1: and hidden lurkers walking or crawling amongst us. Then we'll

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Speaker 1: answer the age old question, who's the most prolific serial meouder?

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Speaker 1: Does evil exist? There's not really an entry for evil

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Speaker 1: in the d s M, the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual

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Speaker 1: used by psychologists. General attempts to categorize evil has resulted

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Speaker 1: in the creation of the dark tetrad, a term used

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Speaker 1: for poor personality traits associated with bad behavior, narcissism, sadism, psychopathy,

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Speaker 1: and machiavellianism. These are traits that are often attributes of

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Speaker 1: people with maladaptive, dangerous personalities. So what does it mean

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Speaker 1: to be in the dark tetrad? We all know generally

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Speaker 1: the concept of narcissism, sadism, psychopathy, and mockavillianism, but what

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Speaker 1: does that actually look like in humans and even animals.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a look at narcissism. For example, the d

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Speaker 1: s MS definition for clinical levels of narcissism is someone

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Speaker 1: who has quote a grandiose sense of self importance and

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Speaker 1: shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes. I mean, you've almost

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Speaker 1: certainly encountered at least a subclinical narcissist, and no doubt

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Speaker 1: you could name a few celebrities and politicians who fit

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Speaker 1: the bill. But could you find narcissism and animals. Many

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Speaker 1: animals seem like narcissists, But even if you point the

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Speaker 1: finger at a totally self obsessed animals, say a house cat,

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Speaker 1: you could also argue they lack the sense of self

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Speaker 1: to be narcissists. Certainly, all Mintance seems to care about

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Speaker 1: as herself, but she may not fully comprehend that she

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Speaker 1: is a herself. So can you really be a narcissist?

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Speaker 1: This is the problem with trying to assign human traits

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Speaker 1: to animals. We can't get inside the animal's head and

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Speaker 1: know what it's thinking. An act that seems sadistic or

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Speaker 1: manipulative may be simply an instinct that allows the animal

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Speaker 1: to pass on its genes. It's impossible to know what

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Speaker 1: they're really feeling. But hey, this podcast is all about

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Speaker 1: the impossible, So we're going to look at the animals

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Speaker 1: that best symbolize each of the remaining characteristics of the

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Speaker 1: Dark tet tread sadism, psychopathy, and machiavellianism. We'll compare these

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Speaker 1: masters of evil with their human counterparts, exploring what it

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Speaker 1: means to be a member of the Dark tet Tread

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Speaker 1: and whether we can use modern scientific imaging to actually

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Speaker 1: quantify what it means to be a psychopath. Joining me

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Speaker 1: today on our journey into the dark is Ben Bolen

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Speaker 1: and Noel Brown, hosts of the podcast Ridiculous History. Welcome

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Speaker 1: to guys. Thanks for having us. Katie, Yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: so much. I'm already kind of terrified, Um, but I'm excited.

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Speaker 1: It's it's a weird feeling. I, for one, m and thrilled,

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Speaker 1: darkly thrilled. One of you were you were mentioning you

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Speaker 1: have a cat, would you describe your cat as a narcissist? Oh? Sure,

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Speaker 1: I mean he I don't know, it's weird. He's sort

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Speaker 1: of like flits between narcissism and outright psychopathy. Like I

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Speaker 1: was saying, he kind of leaves me little treats on

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Speaker 1: the front porch where it'll be like almost like splayed

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Speaker 1: out like some kind of satanic ritual. What will be

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Speaker 1: like the head of a squirrel and the body of

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Speaker 1: a rat, and then you know, kind of surrounded by

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Speaker 1: like viscera and like the shaping pentagram. Sometimes it's really

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Speaker 1: pretty scary. But then he snuggles up, you know, like

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Speaker 1: a good little guy. So I don't know what to

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Speaker 1: make of him. I do not know what to make

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Speaker 1: of him. I hope, I'm hoping I can learn from

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Speaker 1: this podcast today and kind of get inside his head

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Speaker 1: a little bit more and understand what makes him tick. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I mean, even dogs, to me are pretty narcissistic

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Speaker 1: because they, like my own dog, you associate them with

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Speaker 1: being selfless and loving towards humans. But she's a black

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Speaker 1: whole of neediness and desiring affection. So no matter how

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Speaker 1: much I pet her, like I feel like if I

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Speaker 1: was dying on the floor, her number one priority would

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Speaker 1: be to get another belly robe before I pass out. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And then, as we all know too, if we if

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Speaker 1: we died alone in our apartments with just our cats

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Speaker 1: are our dogs, they would probably instantly start eating us.

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Speaker 1: But that's any animal would eventually begin eating you if

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Speaker 1: it were a pain. No, So is the love real, Ben,

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Speaker 1: that's my question. The love is real? But now we're

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Speaker 1: talking about the nature of the body versus the mind

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Speaker 1: or the soul, which I don't think is quite where

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Speaker 1: we're going with today's Well, you did say what is

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Speaker 1: evil is evil real, So I'm intrigued. Please let's let's

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Speaker 1: dive right in. There's a lot of curiosity around whether

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Speaker 1: animals can be statistic. A catterer dolphin who plays with

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Speaker 1: their heft dead prist seems statistic, but there's actually practicality

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Speaker 1: behind their cruelty. So take this example. Dolphins beat up

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Speaker 1: octopi before eating them, even after they're dead. This may

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Speaker 1: seem overkill, as if the dolphins simply can't stop their

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Speaker 1: murderous frenzy because they're having too much fun, but there's

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Speaker 1: actually a really good reason to play rugby with a

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Speaker 1: dead octopus. Octopi don't have centralized nervous systems, so after

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Speaker 1: they're dead, their tentacles can still move around. If an

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Speaker 1: overeager dolphin gobbles up an octopus who's dead but still wriggling,

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Speaker 1: those tentacles can crawl up its esophagus and choke the

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Speaker 1: dolphin too death. This is something that's actually been documented before.

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Speaker 1: So the dolphins beat the octopi to a pulp before

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Speaker 1: chowing down, preventing the octopi from getting its refine from

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Speaker 1: beyond its watery grave. So asking whether animals are statistic

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Speaker 1: is a tricky question. I'd wager I guess that yes,

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Speaker 1: more intelligent animals like dolphins are primates, may have fun

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Speaker 1: reeking doom and destruction, even if there's a good evolutionary

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Speaker 1: reason for it. But instead, I want to look at

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Speaker 1: how evolution itself can create a sadistic monster or void

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Speaker 1: of any emotion at all. To do that, we'll have

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Speaker 1: to take a look at tarantula's and in this case,

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Speaker 1: the tarantulas are the innocent victims of a much more

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Speaker 1: terrifying creature. So you, guys, imagine being captured by a

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Speaker 1: criminal sadist, being paralyzed by him, stuck inside like kill

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Speaker 1: shed totally at his mercy, completely paralyzed, Katie, I think

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Speaker 1: about that all the time. It's like, you know those

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Speaker 1: bad dreams where you you're like trying to run away

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Speaker 1: from a bad guy and you can't move your stupid body. Sure,

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Speaker 1: it's like this is really common recurring dream for me.

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Speaker 1: I'm like trying to run, but it just feels like

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Speaker 1: you're stuck in mud and then you you can't move

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Speaker 1: at all, and you try to scream, but you can't scream.

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Speaker 1: It's like that part of Nightmare on Elm Street where

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Speaker 1: where the where she's running up the stairs and she

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Speaker 1: starts sinking the stairs turning into marshmallows and she just

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Speaker 1: like sinks into it. Oh, I hate that, or like

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Speaker 1: or like the bed sinks under you. The fear of

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Speaker 1: moving slowly in dreams, of trying to run but being

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Speaker 1: unable to is I think slightly more common than the

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Speaker 1: other spooky one, which is the fear of your teeth

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Speaker 1: falling out in your dreams. Yeah. Yeah, that's a common

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Speaker 1: one to the body horror, either teeth, skin, or hair

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Speaker 1: just falling out. I get those ones too. I hate it,

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Speaker 1: like big chunks of skin falling off. It's the worst.

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Speaker 1: I have one question when when we talk about this,

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Speaker 1: this attack of paralysis, right, do the animal victims of

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Speaker 1: this sort of attack do they experience fear as we

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Speaker 1: would understand it, you know, I'm not sure. I mean,

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Speaker 1: so we're talking about tarantula's being the victims, so they're

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Speaker 1: terrorized by this thing called tarantula hawk. It's a sort

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Speaker 1: of wasp and I imagine if the tarantula is capable

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Speaker 1: of feeling anything at all, this is going to be

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Speaker 1: the scariest thing that ever happens to it. I feel

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Speaker 1: like tarantulas are probably just a little more advanced than

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Speaker 1: like a roomba in terms of their ability to like

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Speaker 1: sense things. But I feel like there's got to be

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Speaker 1: some kind of very primitive wiring that is able to

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Speaker 1: at least, you know, gets like some dim awareness of

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Speaker 1: being afraid of something so that they can survive. Probably

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Speaker 1: no other real cognition beyond that, but other than like,

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Speaker 1: uh yeah, probably just like an impending death kind of moment,

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Speaker 1: you know, where it's like funk, it's over, like oh

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Speaker 1: oh no, oh no. But the the tarantula hawk is

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Speaker 1: it Is it actually a hawk? No? No, it's so

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Speaker 1: it's a type of wasp. And if you look into

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Speaker 1: evolutionary biology, you'll find that of asshole behavior is by wasps.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, what these tarantula hawks do is they wait

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Speaker 1: outside of tarantula's burrow and they pluck at the tarantula's

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Speaker 1: webbing to lure the spider out. Because the trantulas create

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Speaker 1: this this little sort of dormat of webbing, so that

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Speaker 1: when an insect crawls across it, they know to pop

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Speaker 1: out and capture the prey. But instead of a juicy

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Speaker 1: little worm, it's the trantula hawk waiting for them, and

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Speaker 1: it stings the tarantula with a paralyzing venom, and so

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Speaker 1: the tarantula is frozen but still completely alive, and the

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Speaker 1: wasp drags the tarantula back to its burrow, where it

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Speaker 1: places the trantula snugly inside and then lays a single

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Speaker 1: egg on top of it. And I feel like, if

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Speaker 1: you're the tarantula, with whatever tarantula consciousness that you have,

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Speaker 1: if you can't move and you see someone laying egg

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Speaker 1: on top of you, this is the point where you're

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Speaker 1: going like, well, this is not going to be cool. Indeed,

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Speaker 1: it's not cool for the tarantula. So the hawk the

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Speaker 1: wasp buries the tarantula alive and tamps down the earth.

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Speaker 1: So it's stuck in there, still alive, buried alive, with

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Speaker 1: this little baby hatching on top of it. So the

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Speaker 1: wasp larva will feed on the live flesh of the

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Speaker 1: tarantula for up to a month. That's like the buffalo

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Speaker 1: bill of the animal kingdom right there, and this is

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Speaker 1: this is terrifying. Why is it? Why? Why is this

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Speaker 1: so adapted to do this bizarre thing like that? It

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Speaker 1: seems like such a stretch, like how, I mean, how,

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Speaker 1: how how did this creature come up with this idea?

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's a stilly way of asking it. We'll

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Speaker 1: think about it this way, like when you you know, animals,

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Speaker 1: especially like wasps, they don't have refrigerators, so they can't

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Speaker 1: keep food fresh for their young as it hatches and develops.

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Speaker 1: So by burying their larva, they're keeping it safe from predators.

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Speaker 1: But you know, if you bury it with some dead prey,

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Speaker 1: it can feed off of it for a while, but

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Speaker 1: eventually that's going to go bad and it can't eat

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Speaker 1: it anymore. But by feeding on something that's alive, it

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Speaker 1: will stay fresh. So actually, some species of the tarantula

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Speaker 1: hawks will feed on non vital organs first, so that

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Speaker 1: the tarantula remains alive longer and that gives it more

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Speaker 1: opportunities to feed. Makes sense, makes sense. I have a

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Speaker 1: quick question here, Katie. So you know how serial killers

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Speaker 1: are often known for their specific m O, either in

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Speaker 1: the way that they commit murder or in the types

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Speaker 1: of victims they choose are different species of tarantula hawk

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Speaker 1: Do they operate in a similar way. Do they only

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Speaker 1: prey on specific types of tarantulas or is it any

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Speaker 1: hairy arachnet out there is fair game? Yeah? No, they

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Speaker 1: they are often very specific in terms of the way

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Speaker 1: that they kill, in which species of tarantula that they

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Speaker 1: go after, because it's such a specified strategy because you

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Speaker 1: need a tarantula that is a burrowing type of tarantula

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Speaker 1: um and so that's not going to be every every

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Speaker 1: spider it's there. Very specific strategy isn't gonna work. So

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Speaker 1: it's picked these cute little I mean to me, they're cute,

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Speaker 1: the tarantulas that like hiding their little holes and then

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Speaker 1: as soon as a little prey comes by, they're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: got you, But this time they're the ones who are

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Speaker 1: got So Also, it actually gets more specific because female

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Speaker 1: tarantulas are the ones that are the killers. Males just

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Speaker 1: hang around flowers and try to get laid. So the

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Speaker 1: mother actually will select the gender of the larva based

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Speaker 1: on how big their victim is. If they have a

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Speaker 1: big tarantula that they've buried alive, then the mother will

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Speaker 1: fertilize the egg, which creates a female because the females

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Speaker 1: are the big, tough serial killers and the males are

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Speaker 1: these little, smaller flower drinking dudes. And so if the

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Speaker 1: tarantula is small, you know, it's like the male doesn't

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Speaker 1: require as much nutrition to develop, so the wasp believe

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Speaker 1: the egg unfertilized and then that creates a male baby.

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Speaker 1: And adults are actually non carnivorous, so it's just the

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Speaker 1: babies that eat the meat. The adults just like to

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Speaker 1: drink flower nectar and then abducted murdered tarantula's well, yeah

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Speaker 1: that too. It's sort of like have you guys seen

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Speaker 1: what is it? Um? What's that movie? It's not called?

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Speaker 1: Is it Split? The one with James McAvoy, Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: he has multiple personalities? Yeah yeah, and the one like

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Speaker 1: he has like the mother personality or he's like I've

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Speaker 1: made you a sandwich and like he's stroking her hair

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Speaker 1: and stuff. It makes me think of that, these like

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Speaker 1: wasp that like, oh, I like to drink flour nectar anyways,

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Speaker 1: enjoy being paralyzed while my baby eat you? Yeahike? So

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Speaker 1: how long does it take to kill the tarantela? Like?

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Speaker 1: How long does this horrible torture porn go on. It

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Speaker 1: can be up to a month, which is crazy to

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Speaker 1: me because like, that's such a long time to be

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Speaker 1: slowly eaten. It's like being in a sarlac pit. It's

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Speaker 1: just do they even do they even do them the

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Speaker 1: kindness of reinjecting them with the paralyzing venom, or does

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Speaker 1: that eventually just wear off once they're buried and they

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Speaker 1: don't even care anymore. I think it will eventually wear off,

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Speaker 1: but I think they'll most likely die before it does.

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Speaker 1: And also the they're packed in so tight inside the

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Speaker 1: dirt they can't move anyways. It's every nightmare combined into one,

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Speaker 1: like being paralyzed, being eaten alive, being married alive, and

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Speaker 1: having a baby eating you as the baby part is

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Speaker 1: extra creepy. That's to me, that's the kicker. I don't

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Speaker 1: know why. Something about the baby eating you from the

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Speaker 1: top down is just really really awful, because even human

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Speaker 1: murderers don't do that. That's one of the big differences,

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Speaker 1: very special kind of evil. There aren't typically baby murderers,

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Speaker 1: although there are children who can be murders, but I

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Speaker 1: don't think infants have yet done a murder. It's a

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Speaker 1: different show. So good news you guys. Tarantula hawks are

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Speaker 1: found all over the world, including Australia, which duck because

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Speaker 1: Australia is just home to every monster. They're also in Africa,

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Speaker 1: Southeast Asia, India, and also America. They're even in San Diego, California,

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Speaker 1: which is my hometown. That's astonishing. Yeah, we're you able

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Speaker 1: to find any video of this process going down. I

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Speaker 1: would love slash. Yeah, I could totally send you guys

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Speaker 1: something like that. It's I have seen it. It's pretty

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Speaker 1: gnarly because you see this wasp attached itself to the

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Speaker 1: tarantula and then there's a scuffle and then the tarantula

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Speaker 1: slowly starts to go very still, and that's when the

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Speaker 1: dread sets in. Yeah, it was. It was as as

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Speaker 1: you were walking us through this process. I was watching

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Speaker 1: a video of a child who is watching this intense

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Speaker 1: deathmatch and kidnapping, abduction, burial of a tarantula, and even

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Speaker 1: the kid seems to I think this is this is

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Speaker 1: a little brutal. You can see the tarantula attempt to

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Speaker 1: escape as the paralytic agent is kicking in. But I

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Speaker 1: was surprised by the size because at least in what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing here, the tarantula hawk looks significantly smaller than

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Speaker 1: the creature it's attacking. Yeah, and that's why it's having

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Speaker 1: the ability to paralyze the tarantula is so important because

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Speaker 1: it's using it's Smart's not really because wasps are done,

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Speaker 1: but in evolutionary terms, like this intelligent strategy over the

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Speaker 1: brawn of the tarantula. That sting is extremely powerful. So

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Speaker 1: there's this entomologist Dr Justin Schmidt from the Southwestern Biological Institute,

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Speaker 1: and he created a sting pain index, and ah, he

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Speaker 1: says the Transla hawks sting is quote unsurpassed and intensity

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Speaker 1: by any other stinging insect and that a sting feels

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Speaker 1: like a lightning bolt struck the spot. The pain is

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Speaker 1: beyond imagination. And you want to know why he knows this?

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Speaker 1: Did he sting himself up? This crazy bastard like just

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Speaker 1: created the sting pain Inda by finding a bunch of

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Speaker 1: insects that sting and then having them sting himself and

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Speaker 1: then rating it like, oh yeah, that's yep, that's a

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Speaker 1: tim How is that guy? Is he still alive? I

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Speaker 1: don't want to I don't want to sound insensitive, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't think he's killed himself with insects things, just

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Speaker 1: subjected himself to quote unimaginable pain. Now from if if

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Speaker 1: what I remember is correct, wasps are notorious for they're

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Speaker 1: just attacking human beings who happen to be around their

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Speaker 1: general vicinity. Are tarantula hawks that way too? Or do

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Speaker 1: they have to be you know, provoked or prodded? They

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Speaker 1: have to be provoked. So the silver lining is they're

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Speaker 1: actually pretty non aggressive towards anything except for obviously tarantulas.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, if you get one caught like in

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Speaker 1: your sweater, it'll probably sting you out of a fear response.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, they don't go around trying to attack people,

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Speaker 1: which think I because that would be terrible. But if

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Speaker 1: you're a tarantula, you know not not such good luck? Wow?

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Speaker 1: And they're so widespread. Yeah, so I guess then one

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Speaker 1: of the big questions keep I keep going back to

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Speaker 1: is is this evil? Because it sounds like this is

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Speaker 1: while it's horrific for the tarantula, the victim, the incubator,

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Speaker 1: it seems like it's the only way for these uh,

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Speaker 1: these creatures to reproduce. Is that correct? Like there's no alternative, right,

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Speaker 1: and so this is like, this is the key question

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Speaker 1: is now, I don't think a wasp is capable of

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Speaker 1: being evil in the sense that we kind of define

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Speaker 1: it because they're so simple. They're basically like robots. So

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Speaker 1: it's like you wouldn't necessarily describe a virus as being

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Speaker 1: evil because it's so simple, and even the wasps are

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Speaker 1: a great deal more complex than virus. I don't think

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Speaker 1: they can have like the intent or the awareness to

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Speaker 1: be evil. But when you look at it, like you

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Speaker 1: kind of take a step back and look at it

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Speaker 1: from like an evolutionary perspective, where it's sort of more

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Speaker 1: of this emergent intelligence from millions of years of evolution,

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Speaker 1: I mean, maybe you can define that as evil. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about like intelligent design or like some

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Speaker 1: god controlling evolution, talking about like, you know, you have

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Speaker 1: this sort of like guiding force of evolution that is

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Speaker 1: its own sort of like I mean, it is it

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Speaker 1: is a form of intelligence where it's like you have

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Speaker 1: to really zoom out to see it, where it's just

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Speaker 1: millions and millions of years of these small changes resulting

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Speaker 1: in something that's so so messed up, and maybe that's

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Speaker 1: like a natural form of evil. I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: guess that's a very philosophical question. Well, I think it is.

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Speaker 1: But it's also interesting because so much of psychopathy is

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Speaker 1: almost like reptilian type behavior, or like non feeling, non

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Speaker 1: empathetic type behavior, which is the kind of things that

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Speaker 1: an insect like this would do. Like there's no feeling

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Speaker 1: about it. It's just, you know, I must feed, I

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Speaker 1: must feed my baby, and this is how I'm going

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Speaker 1: to go about doing it. It's very callous, for lack

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Speaker 1: of a better term, you know, but you're right, there's

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Speaker 1: no cognition involved. It's just the thing that makes sense

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Speaker 1: and that it's adapted perfectly to do. But I think

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Speaker 1: we ascribe those kind of things to psychopaths as well, right,

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Speaker 1: because I think with a human we're like, you should

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Speaker 1: be capable of empathy. But then it it's a really

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable question because it's a little more clear when you're

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Speaker 1: looking at a wasp that okay, of course it doesn't

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Speaker 1: understand what it's doing. But you could also make that

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Speaker 1: argument for humans who can't feel empathy, like they may

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Speaker 1: truly not understand the gravity of what they're doing. And

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Speaker 1: then is that sort of like the up where you

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Speaker 1: can't really blame them, or is there something else going

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Speaker 1: on with people where it's like, well you should be

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Speaker 1: smart enough to figure out, like does there even need

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Speaker 1: to be like an intentionality behind evil, because like if

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Speaker 1: it's defined as something where it's like you're incapable of

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Speaker 1: feeling mercy or empathy, then maybe just like evil doesn't

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Speaker 1: need to be like intentionally evil. It's just a force

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Speaker 1: that doesn't have empathy and then causes harm. So then

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Speaker 1: we would be defining evil as not the addition of

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Speaker 1: something nefarious or insidious, but the absence of an alternative,

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Speaker 1: long term evolutionary strategy, because that's what empathy ultimately functions as, right, right, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's really interesting. It's like we have because there are

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Speaker 1: some animals who have evolved a survival strategy that could

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Speaker 1: be seen as like good. So like bees are so

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Speaker 1: social and help each other. So you know a lot

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Speaker 1: of these youth social animals, so like these and ants

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Speaker 1: and even naked mole rats, they all seem to team

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Speaker 1: up and pitch in and help each other and care

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Speaker 1: about each other um as much as like a bee can.

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Speaker 1: But it does seem like a kinder sort of animal

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Speaker 1: in general than a wasp, even though if you take

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Speaker 1: a bee and a wasp individually, they don't really I

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Speaker 1: don't think they can feel kindness. But you look at

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Speaker 1: the whole the group of them, like a bee colony

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Speaker 1: does seem to have empathy, for it's like each other

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Speaker 1: in a weird way. So what would a tarantula hawk

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Speaker 1: be in terms of the dark triad or dark tetrat?

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Speaker 1: Would they would they qualify as a sadist? Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: what I'm thinking, Like these very sadistic because like to

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Speaker 1: keep something alive for up to a month and then

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Speaker 1: slowly feed on it. It's just so it seems so

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Speaker 1: unnecessarily cruel, even though, as we've talked about it, there

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Speaker 1: is a reason for it. Yeah, I think that checks out.

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Speaker 1: As we've just discussed in the Animal Kingdom, some of

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Speaker 1: the most terrifying examples of sadism are due to reproductive

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Speaker 1: needs in humans. Some of the most dangerous people are

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Speaker 1: those who somehow link sexuality to sadism. This is called

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Speaker 1: a paraphilia. It's a form of sexuality that is atypical

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Speaker 1: or pathological. Now a huge disclaimer here, I'm not talking

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Speaker 1: about the b D s M community. People who engage

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Speaker 1: in b D s M are very different from those

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Speaker 1: with sexual sadism disorder, the key thing being consent and

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Speaker 1: healthy communication. For media SIM practitioners, consent is extremely important.

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Speaker 1: They may find sadistic acts or masochistic acts to be

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Speaker 1: sexually arousing, but not unless their partner is equal interested.

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Speaker 1: That's why safe words, setting, clear boundaries, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of discussion is often present in these communities. And it's

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Speaker 1: also why psychologists don't consider b D s M to

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Speaker 1: be a disorder. They aren't causing harm to themselves or

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Speaker 1: others well, I mean psychologically speaking, but sexual sadism disorder

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Speaker 1: is different. People with this disorder are aroused by the

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Speaker 1: suffering of others, and the disorder is either harmful to

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Speaker 1: the individual who might find it disturbing or upsetting, or

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Speaker 1: to others in the case of sex offenders who seek

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Speaker 1: out non consent and victims. What I find interesting is

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Speaker 1: the difference between people with sexual stadium disorder who choose

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Speaker 1: not to act on it and those who do, meaning

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Speaker 1: that there are some who either have empathy or at

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Speaker 1: least a fear of consequences while still feeling these sadistic urges.

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Speaker 1: I had a clinical psychology professor who put it this way.

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Speaker 1: The explosive combination is having both a sadistic paraphilia and

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Speaker 1: a clinical lack of empathy. Those are the ingredients to

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Speaker 1: make most types of serial killers. So after a quick break,

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Speaker 1: that will bring us to our next member of the

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Speaker 1: dark tetrad, this psychopath. So how do you spot a

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Speaker 1: psychopath by the cold look of cruel and difference in

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Speaker 1: their glassy eyes, the pile of bodies in their basements? Well,

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Speaker 1: what about with technology? Psychologists have attempted to quantify psychopathy

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Speaker 1: using brain imaging, which leads us to one of the

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Speaker 1: most interesting stories in brain research. James Fallon is a

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Speaker 1: neuroscientist who is interested in looking at the anatomical characteristics

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Speaker 1: found in the brains of serial killers. He found a

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Speaker 1: pattern of abnormalities and the PET scans of these killers

421
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: showing structural aberrations in the orbital cortex, the prefrontal cortex,

422
00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 1: the ventral anterior singulate, and the omega LA. As he

423
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: was shuffling through piles of brain scans on his desk,

424
00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:06,640
Speaker 1: he was looking through a file on his family's brain

425
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 1: scans taken for another study on Alzheimer's. One of the

426
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:16,119
Speaker 1: scans had the clear structural abnormalities consistent with psychopathy. Curious

427
00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 1: as to who and his family was a psychopath, he

428
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: looked up the name and was surprised to find it

429
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: was his own brain scan. Obviously, he wasn't a violent killer,

430
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 1: so first he wondered if all his research about the

431
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: psychopathic brain was just wrong. But when he took genetic tests,

432
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,920
Speaker 1: he found that he also had a reels associated with

433
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,400
Speaker 1: people high at risk for exhibiting violent behavior. He did

434
00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: some introspection and decided, instead of it being a fluke,

435
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:47,240
Speaker 1: he may very well have a psychopathic brain. But due

436
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 1: to his loving upbringing with parents and siblings who were

437
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,679
Speaker 1: devoted to him, he suspects he was able to avoid

438
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,640
Speaker 1: the more frightening violent traits of the psychopath. But when

439
00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:00,200
Speaker 1: nature is left to her own devices, what kind of

440
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: deadly killers does she concoct? The deadliest serial killers are

441
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: often harmless looking. They blend right in, allowing them to

442
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 1: continue their killing while raising no alarms. As we'll find out,

443
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 1: this is true both in human society and the animal kingdom.

444
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:21,520
Speaker 1: So speaking of psychopaths, let's talk about cats. Uh So, guys,

445
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: which wildcat would you guess is the most prolific serial

446
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:31,680
Speaker 1: killers of them all? Uh, wildcats specifically, Let's see, it's

447
00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:36,240
Speaker 1: probably it's probably smaller than one would imagine because naturally

448
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 1: people would think something large, like a tiger or maybe

449
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 1: a lion. But I'm going to go with something smaller,

450
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 1: maybe a bobcat or a wildcat. That's a really intelligent gift, yeah,

451
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 1: because like you have these huge predator cats, so like

452
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 1: lions seem really formidable. I mean, they have a thousand

453
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 1: ps i of force for their jaw strength, so just

454
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: for comparison, we only have about two p s i,

455
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 1: so they're so powerful. And you know, there's also like

456
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 1: the more sleek ones like cheetahs who can run up

457
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: to seventy five miles an hour and jaguars who are

458
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: super like buff and can carry cadavers up a tree.

459
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 1: But you're right that even those guys are really terrifying,

460
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: they're not the most prolific serial killers, and we do

461
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: have to get smaller. In fact, our most prolific serial

462
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 1: killer kitty, is one of the smallest species of cats

463
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:38,880
Speaker 1: in the world, and that includes domestic cats, so they're

464
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: smaller than your household kitty. It's this really adorable cat.

465
00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: It's called the black footed cat. They're about three times

466
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: smaller than your pet house cat, and they weigh in

467
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: about two to four pounds, so females are around two pounds,

468
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:58,440
Speaker 1: males can get up to around four pounds, and they

469
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 1: have a sixty per kill success raid, which if you've

470
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:05,800
Speaker 1: ever seen a nature documentary and you see how many

471
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:10,479
Speaker 1: times a lioness will have a goof up and not

472
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: be able to catch its prey is incredible. So they

473
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:19,360
Speaker 1: actually look a lot like a house cat, but just

474
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 1: like kind of shrunken down. They have big eyes and

475
00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 1: their tan with dark brown spots and striations. And they're

476
00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: called black footed because their little feets are black. And

477
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: uh they're also called ant hill tigers because when they're cornered,

478
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: they'll like, they'll mess you up, they'll cut you. They're

479
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: very aggressive. You know, I'm looking at I'm looking at

480
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 1: a picture of one right now, and I gotta say,

481
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,880
Speaker 1: these cats are adorable. They look even better than my

482
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: two cats, and my two cats are just you know,

483
00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,800
Speaker 1: cat models. Basically, they have that like baby schema. The

484
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,400
Speaker 1: because they have the big eyes and the big foreheads

485
00:30:57,520 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: and they're they're really tiny and just soup. We're super cute.

486
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,040
Speaker 1: You would not think these are a big threat. So

487
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,400
Speaker 1: what kind of what kind of stuff do they hunt? Well,

488
00:31:06,400 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: their prey can be pretty small, so rodents, birds, pretty

489
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: much anything that moves and they can fit in their

490
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: mouths though, so they'll do insects, lizards, birds, and small

491
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 1: rodents are their favorite. They're mostly nocturnal. They'll walk twenty

492
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,080
Speaker 1: miles a night, So that's the furthest that any small

493
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 1: wildcat will walk. And I did a little math and

494
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 1: if you scale that up to um human size, that's

495
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 1: like walking a thousand miles at night, which I know,

496
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:41,560
Speaker 1: it's like it's like the Proclaimer's song, like I will

497
00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: walk five hundred miles. So that does that mean these

498
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,440
Speaker 1: little sweet babies hunt for sport, just like for kicks?

499
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:51,200
Speaker 1: Like why why is such a high kill rate versus

500
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 1: lions who to me seem like they hunt more practically

501
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:59,760
Speaker 1: and functionally to you know, feed? No, they I mean

502
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: they just have a rapid metabolism and they for the

503
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 1: food that they can't eat on the spot, they store

504
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: in their burrows. So it's not for fun, it's definitely

505
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 1: for nutrition. And these smaller animals will actually have a

506
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,920
Speaker 1: pretty large nutritional demand because they can't bulk up a

507
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:23,360
Speaker 1: lot of calories and then just like sleep it off.

508
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 1: They have to be constantly eating. And to be clear,

509
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:31,680
Speaker 1: we're talking about the most prolific successful serial killers, not

510
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,920
Speaker 1: just the most attempts, is that correct. I mean they

511
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: actually rack up a pretty high kill count, so I

512
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: would say they are of the big cats. They kill

513
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:46,280
Speaker 1: the most per day. So they can take down around

514
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: fifteen prey items a night, which is a lot, and

515
00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 1: that includes like birds. So if you there's a really

516
00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: cool video I can show you guys, and I'll put

517
00:32:57,120 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 1: that up on our Twitter where it just like jumps

518
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:03,640
Speaker 1: up and catches a bird midair and it's got it

519
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,400
Speaker 1: like jammed in its mouth and it looks very pleased

520
00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: with itself. Um, but yeah, that's like about a kill

521
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:14,600
Speaker 1: an hour, So that's I mean, these are small prey items,

522
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: but you know you scale that down to the size

523
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,280
Speaker 1: of the cow, which is like two pounds of like

524
00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:23,920
Speaker 1: pure murderous rage, and that's like, you know, it's like

525
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 1: taking if a lion could take down a small gazelle

526
00:33:27,840 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: like every hour, So they also do. It's so cute.

527
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 1: They do the little but wiggle, you know that thing

528
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:39,000
Speaker 1: like when your cat is getting ready to pounce, and

529
00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 1: it's like there's a little sweety swooty with its butt

530
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 1: like Simba and the Lion King sometimes too. Yeah, yeah,

531
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,960
Speaker 1: they do that. They do the little little but wiggle,

532
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,400
Speaker 1: and so that's actually not just to look cute. It

533
00:33:55,560 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: helps a line their feet under them so they can

534
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: pounce with maximum precision and power like a spring. And

535
00:34:04,000 --> 00:34:08,680
Speaker 1: sometimes they do take down bigger prey though, so they

536
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:13,279
Speaker 1: rarely but sometimes kill cape hairs, which way more than them.

537
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: There these relatively larger rabbits. So it's just kind of

538
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,520
Speaker 1: funny because they they're just like so amped up on

539
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: being murderous they don't even think that, oh maybe this

540
00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,400
Speaker 1: rabbit I can't even carry it because it weighs like

541
00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:33,040
Speaker 1: twice of me. So is this where the is this

542
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: where the psychopathy aspect comes in? Yeah, because it's like

543
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: I feel like they're desire to kill these bigger prey items.

544
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:46,680
Speaker 1: Is it's like, clearly you're not going to eat that,

545
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: it's too big. I mean, maybe you know, they do

546
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:52,560
Speaker 1: save it for later, but it's kind of funny. I

547
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,399
Speaker 1: don't even know if they could fit a cape hair

548
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 1: in their din. So it's just killing stuff because they're

549
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: driven to kill. I mean, we've all been there. But

550
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,839
Speaker 1: that's what my housecat does. That is what my indoor, outdoor,

551
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: sweet snuggly housecat does. He's not hungry, he doesn't bet

552
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:15,680
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a six kill rate though, No, absolutely not.

553
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: But it's like he is clearly toying with these creatures

554
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 1: and you know, just like leaving them in the most

555
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: twisted arrays I've ever seen in my life. Like it's

556
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:26,880
Speaker 1: it's like this, it haunts my my dreams. It's it's

557
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:29,360
Speaker 1: bizarre that I guess that's why I was asking earlier,

558
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 1: like does this creature hunt kind of for sport? So

559
00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: I guess some of that does enter into it. If

560
00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: it's not, it's not even thinking about the fact that

561
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,400
Speaker 1: it can't actually carry it, you know, the kill away.

562
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: It just needs to feed the urge, right right, And well,

563
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 1: I mean it's really interesting because with housecats, obviously they

564
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,800
Speaker 1: don't need to kill anything at all because they're getting

565
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,960
Speaker 1: fed their little kilbls and bits. But I think they

566
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,480
Speaker 1: have a desire to hunt, so they're driven to hunt

567
00:35:57,560 --> 00:36:02,480
Speaker 1: by this, and it is a survival instinct to hunt,

568
00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:04,920
Speaker 1: because you can imagine if a cat didn't have that

569
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,880
Speaker 1: and just waited around for kibble, if it lived in

570
00:36:08,880 --> 00:36:13,080
Speaker 1: the wild, it would be done an evolutionary dead end.

571
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,480
Speaker 1: But yeah, I mean it's we can't talk to a

572
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 1: cat and say like, hey, do you really enjoy doing this?

573
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 1: But my guess would be that they do get satisfaction

574
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:29,640
Speaker 1: from it. And even though it is an evolutionary strategy,

575
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 1: and even playing with their prey has practical reasons like

576
00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: making sure it's dead and also honing their skills, I mean,

577
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: they seem to love doing it, and that is kind

578
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: of psychopathic, isn't it. Yeah, that's a good point, especially

579
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 1: when we consider not just cats, but a lot of

580
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:53,800
Speaker 1: similar mammals. Their juvenile phase is spent playing, and playing

581
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:57,640
Speaker 1: is really just a less fatal version of the hunting

582
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: that they will instinctively practice later in life. And I

583
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,359
Speaker 1: can absolutely see from a neurological perspective, I can absolutely

584
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: see an animal as evolved as a cat or my

585
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: cats enjoying that kind of thing. It's it's scratching an itch.

586
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: Your body and your brain will tell you it's a

587
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,400
Speaker 1: pleasurable and correct thing to do right, right. I mean, like,

588
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:23,240
Speaker 1: we do have video games where we like to kill stuff.

589
00:37:23,280 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: So it makes me wonder if we might have something

590
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:30,279
Speaker 1: like that deep inside us, where we kind of, you know,

591
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 1: maybe have that killing instinct that's just been over many,

592
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 1: many hundreds of thousands of the years of cultural and

593
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: societal evolution has been sort of put inside a little

594
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 1: box and um locked away, except in the cases of

595
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 1: serial killers. Right well, in the defense of my cats,

596
00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,160
Speaker 1: Dr Vankman and Mr Jackpott have to shout him out here. Yeah,

597
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,600
Speaker 1: and it's the real names. In defense of my cats,

598
00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,040
Speaker 1: they have at the very least never paralyzed someway and

599
00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:04,799
Speaker 1: buried them alive and put a kitten inside of their

600
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:10,400
Speaker 1: bodies to cute, Like would a kitten bursting out of

601
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:16,120
Speaker 1: a tarantula be cute or horrible? I can't know. I'm

602
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:20,240
Speaker 1: on the fence. I'm honestly on the fence because if

603
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:23,160
Speaker 1: that was backwards, like a trantula bursting out of a kitten,

604
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,919
Speaker 1: that would obviously be horrible. But when you do it

605
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:28,839
Speaker 1: in verse, it's kind of cute. I mean, I still

606
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,759
Speaker 1: feel bad for the tarantula, but you know, hey, it's

607
00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 1: a kitten, sure, So it's pretty crazy. You mentioned fallon

608
00:38:37,640 --> 00:38:41,680
Speaker 1: the neuroscientist. He's actually in the show that I'm working

609
00:38:41,719 --> 00:38:44,399
Speaker 1: on called Happy Face. It's like a true crime show

610
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,600
Speaker 1: about the happy Voice killer, and it's about this guy's

611
00:38:47,680 --> 00:38:51,919
Speaker 1: daughter and in the show, she goes and gets analyzed

612
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: by this guy to try to figure out whether she

613
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 1: herself has inherited her father's psychopathic tendencies. And it's really

614
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: interesting because it's like there's a lot of discussion around it,

615
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,880
Speaker 1: whether it's like is it all nature, is it all nurture?

616
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 1: Is it a combination of the two. Can you really

617
00:39:06,960 --> 00:39:09,160
Speaker 1: figure out just from someone's brain scan whether or not

618
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: this is true. It seems like a very kind of

619
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,480
Speaker 1: like surfacing way of of of figuring that stuff out

620
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 1: because it's a combination of a lot of factors. But

621
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 1: he actually talks a lot about psychopathy in the animal

622
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:24,360
Speaker 1: kingdom too, and how it's actually can be a positive trait, like, um,

623
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,520
Speaker 1: you know, animals that are psychopaths will kind of they'll

624
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,320
Speaker 1: go places that other animals won't and they will actually

625
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:34,759
Speaker 1: breed more successfully and things like that. Um, it's I'm

626
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:39,919
Speaker 1: not explaining it super well, but it's yeah, because like psychopaths.

627
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:43,720
Speaker 1: One of their characteristics is risk taking and not having

628
00:39:43,719 --> 00:39:47,080
Speaker 1: a fear of the consequences. So in some cases that

629
00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:51,560
Speaker 1: could obviously be very bad, but for some animals that

630
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:55,759
Speaker 1: will bring you a reward. If you are bolder and

631
00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,520
Speaker 1: take a risk and try something novel, that lack of

632
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,359
Speaker 1: fear will actually give you a leg up over your competition.

633
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: That is exactly what he was talking about. You know,

634
00:40:06,920 --> 00:40:11,399
Speaker 1: so long as they survive to reproduce, that's that's that's

635
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:17,719
Speaker 1: the Vegas Odds part. Yeah, that's that's really interesting. I've

636
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:21,880
Speaker 1: actually listened to some of that podcast. It's so I

637
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: think that is it's such a personal perspective on the

638
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: nature versus nurture because she's I mean, from my perspective,

639
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 1: she's obviously a very empathetic person to be so worried

640
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: about that part of her nature. But I can totally

641
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: imagine how that would be. That you're wondering, like, well,

642
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,160
Speaker 1: any any behavior you feel where it's like maybe you

643
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: know you have sean Freud a sometime, or you feel angry,

644
00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: you wonder like, well, is that me? Or is that

645
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:55,080
Speaker 1: like these genes inside me puppeting me? Yeah, And you

646
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 1: might not have made it far enough in the series.

647
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to spoil anything, but it does come

648
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,840
Speaker 1: into play, like the way she's dealt with relationships and

649
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: kind of her emotional kind of closed awfulness, and that's

650
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,399
Speaker 1: a big part of it, and wondering if she can

651
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: actually feel things the way quote unquote normal people can.

652
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:13,600
Speaker 1: So it's something that really haunts her and bothers her.

653
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:15,520
Speaker 1: And at the end of the series she kind of

654
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:17,680
Speaker 1: figures out, you know, at least as far as this

655
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 1: guy is concerned, what she is. Yeah, the story of

656
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,600
Speaker 1: the most prolific serial killer in human history is one

657
00:41:27,680 --> 00:41:32,480
Speaker 1: that's more tragic than gruesome. Harold Friederich Shipman was a bespectacled,

658
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,320
Speaker 1: bearded man, very ordinary and meek looking. He was a doctor,

659
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,439
Speaker 1: married and had four children. Not someone whom you would

660
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,919
Speaker 1: peg as a cold blooded killer, but he killed two

661
00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:48,320
Speaker 1: hundred and eighteen people, committing crimes undetected for twenty three years.

662
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: Shipman was a GP who had his own practice near Manchester, England.

663
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:57,160
Speaker 1: He targeted the most vulnerable people as his victims, his

664
00:41:57,239 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: own geriatric patients. Most of victims were the elderly women

665
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,279
Speaker 1: in his care to whom he gave lethal doses of morphine.

666
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,320
Speaker 1: He had a typical pattern. He would give his victims

667
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: a lethal dose of diamorphine, signed their death certificates, and

668
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: then alter their medical records to falsely indicate that their

669
00:42:15,640 --> 00:42:19,359
Speaker 1: health had been in decline. Shipman was an outlier even

670
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,239
Speaker 1: amongst serial killers, as there was no clear motive for

671
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,400
Speaker 1: the crime, except in one case, he altered his victim's

672
00:42:26,440 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: will to make himself the beneficiary of three hundred and

673
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 1: eighty six thousand pounds, something the victim's daughter found to

674
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:37,680
Speaker 1: be awfully suspicious. So why did he kill It's hard

675
00:42:37,719 --> 00:42:40,840
Speaker 1: to know for certain. As a teenager, he witnessed his

676
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,160
Speaker 1: mother received morphine for terminal cancer until she died of

677
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,319
Speaker 1: the disease. Some of the psychiatrists who have looked at

678
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 1: his case speculate that he had a deep seated need

679
00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:54,320
Speaker 1: to control other people, something influenced but certainly not caused

680
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:58,680
Speaker 1: in total by his mother's death. Another possibility psychiatrists have

681
00:42:58,760 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: proposed is that he felt a sense of relief from

682
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: stress or pressure by killing his patients, as he considered

683
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 1: them a nuisance. This is the heart of what a

684
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:13,400
Speaker 1: psychopath is. Coldly, flippantly cruel. We need a minute to

685
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: clean our brains with images of cute cats. Wait is

686
00:43:16,680 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: that a blackfooted cat? And is that a baby bird

687
00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:30,200
Speaker 1: in its mouth? Oh no, We'll be right back. Machiavellianism

688
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:33,759
Speaker 1: through the scope of psychology is defined as a duplicitous

689
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:38,280
Speaker 1: manipulation with a disregard for morality, putting personal gain before

690
00:43:38,360 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: any feelings of empathy. Think Little Finger from Game of Thrones,

691
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 1: someone behind the scenes manipulating and pulling strings, causing destruction

692
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:52,799
Speaker 1: for others or their own gain. But fortunately Machiavellians can

693
00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:57,320
Speaker 1: only manipulate, not mind control. They're victims. However, the natural

694
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: world is not so merciful. Work wanted to discuss a

695
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: macki villion animal that is literally pulling the strings using

696
00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: real life mind control. So mind control and hypnosis is

697
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:14,160
Speaker 1: often explored in popular culture. From the Manchurion candidate to

698
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,640
Speaker 1: Jessica Jones were fascinated by the idea of thought control. So,

699
00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,680
Speaker 1: you know, the Purple Man and Jessica Jones, it's such

700
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: a creepy villain. Doctor who David Tennant, Yeah, he's so

701
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:30,680
Speaker 1: lovable and doctor Who. But then his and he's just

702
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:34,000
Speaker 1: I think, so he's got he's got a good range.

703
00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: I didn't trust him. You don't trust him his doctor?

704
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 1: Who was it? After watching Jessica Jones? Do you stop

705
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:41,960
Speaker 1: trusting him doctor? No? No, I just don't. I don't

706
00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:44,200
Speaker 1: trust his mouth. Is it because he has a bunch

707
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:49,439
Speaker 1: of hearts? He's got like ten hearts or something? But yeah,

708
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:53,839
Speaker 1: the the Purple Man for background for Jessica Jones amidst

709
00:44:54,120 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: pheromones that forced people to obey his suggestions, right right, Yeah,

710
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 1: it's like he issues a command and then the person

711
00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 1: has to do it because it's some kind of medic

712
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: clorians or whatever. I haven't watched the whole show, so

713
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:13,719
Speaker 1: I'm not sure, but yeah, that's it's so creepy to

714
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:17,799
Speaker 1: me because like like one of the worst possible sci

715
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 1: fi horse scenarios where uh, serial killer mind controls you

716
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 1: into digging your own grave or just following him into

717
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: his like kill basement. But I have bad news for

718
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:36,759
Speaker 1: spiders again, this is a very spider unfriendly podcast. Or

719
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: weaver spiders are spend these really neat precise webs. They're

720
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,759
Speaker 1: they're actually very beautiful the webs the spiders are. I mean,

721
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,720
Speaker 1: I think they're cool, but people have hang ups about

722
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:54,719
Speaker 1: spiders for some reason. Um, so now wasps again come

723
00:45:54,760 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 1: into the picture and just are so mean and are

724
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,960
Speaker 1: such as holes. So female parasitic wasps lay an egg

725
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: onto the orb weaver's abdomen, and if you've been listening,

726
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: you know, and once a wasp lays an egg on you,

727
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:14,840
Speaker 1: you're in for a bad time. So the orb weaver

728
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:20,120
Speaker 1: is still alive, and the spider becomes mind controlled by

729
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:24,920
Speaker 1: the wasp larva, and instead of spinning its beautiful lace

730
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,840
Speaker 1: like web, it dismantles its web and creates a cocoon

731
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:34,080
Speaker 1: for the parasitic larva to live in. And then, because

732
00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:39,799
Speaker 1: wasps again there are such huge assholes, the larva will

733
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,840
Speaker 1: suck on the spider's juices until the spider dies. And

734
00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,560
Speaker 1: then the larva just checks its carcass away like a

735
00:46:46,719 --> 00:46:50,480
Speaker 1: soda can, and it makes itself nice and cozy in

736
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,640
Speaker 1: the cocoon that the spider had woven for it against

737
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:58,160
Speaker 1: its will. It's so crazy to me that you can

738
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: have such a precise method of mind control that the

739
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 1: larva not only gets to eat its victim but makes

740
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 1: it spin a little cradle for for it as it

741
00:47:11,719 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: develops and so it can stay safe. It's just so creepy.

742
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,319
Speaker 1: So it's slave labor at that point too, right, a

743
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: slave that you eat later. Yeah. Yeah, So we are

744
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:30,359
Speaker 1: these wasps as common as the tarantula hawk um, they

745
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 1: aren't as widely distributed, So the ones that we're going

746
00:47:33,560 --> 00:47:38,920
Speaker 1: to be talking about are found in Japan. So researchers

747
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: in Japan wanted to look into this behavior because it's

748
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:49,359
Speaker 1: so crazy how precise that mind control is. And they

749
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: found that the cocoon that the zombie spider weaves for

750
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:59,400
Speaker 1: its parasite is very similar to the molten stage web

751
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:03,200
Speaker 1: that the spider, a healthy spider, will weave for itself.

752
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:07,800
Speaker 1: It's a protective cocoon designed to keep the spider safe

753
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: while it molts it's exoskeleton, and it's actually made out

754
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:17,360
Speaker 1: of this special ultra violet spider silk so that birds

755
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,640
Speaker 1: and flying insects will avoid crashing into it. So like

756
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: normally when a spider builds its web, it wants insects

757
00:48:23,960 --> 00:48:26,880
Speaker 1: to run into it so that you can eat them.

758
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 1: But if you're in all naked and exposed and don't

759
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:33,279
Speaker 1: want something to kill you, you wrap yourself up in

760
00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,919
Speaker 1: like this neon light of like warning naked spider in here.

761
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:43,120
Speaker 1: So researchers found that there was higher levels of this

762
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: substance that's called twenty h ectosoone, and it's the same

763
00:48:49,000 --> 00:48:56,000
Speaker 1: hormone that controls molting. So in the zombified spiders, they

764
00:48:56,040 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 1: are being mind controlled into thinking that they're going through

765
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:03,880
Speaker 1: their molting stage. It's unknown how the wasp is actually

766
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:09,920
Speaker 1: manipulating this hormone. But it's not just mind controlling into

767
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 1: thinking it's molting. It's actually a step above that because

768
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:17,560
Speaker 1: it's somehow commanding it to go into this like super

769
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:23,720
Speaker 1: molting mode where it's building an extra strong cocoon, more reinforced,

770
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,960
Speaker 1: with greater tensile strength than the spider's normal molten cocoon.

771
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: So it's like it's beyond just like thinking it's molting.

772
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:37,600
Speaker 1: It's creating a mega safety bunker for the parasite that's

773
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:42,760
Speaker 1: planning on murdering it. So way wait, so the downside

774
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:47,919
Speaker 1: is that you are being mind controlled and then you're

775
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 1: going to die. But the upside is that you get

776
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: super strength. I guess the the equivalent of spider superpowers. Well,

777
00:49:57,080 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: your your webbing does, so your care creating um spider

778
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 1: silk that has is extra reinforced because the molting spider

779
00:50:06,719 --> 00:50:09,960
Speaker 1: silk like a in a healthy orb weaver that's creating

780
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,600
Speaker 1: a cocoon for itself to molten side that that webbing

781
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:18,040
Speaker 1: will be reinforced and stronger to protect it. But for

782
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,840
Speaker 1: the parasite, it's like it's bringing out the good stuff.

783
00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: It's bringing out the big guns, the big webbing guns,

784
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:31,280
Speaker 1: and creating really really strong webbing to protect the parasite. So,

785
00:50:31,680 --> 00:50:35,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I would think it's not necessarily clear in

786
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:37,919
Speaker 1: the research yet, but I would think that somehow it's

787
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:42,919
Speaker 1: just being flooded with these hormones and make like this

788
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:47,600
Speaker 1: extra strong signal for it to produce the molting webbing

789
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,200
Speaker 1: in a way that's like it's over signaling so that

790
00:50:50,239 --> 00:50:55,200
Speaker 1: the parasite benefits from the super strong cocoon. So this

791
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,719
Speaker 1: is what's called an ectoparasitoid. It's a parasite who will

792
00:50:59,760 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: live externally on its host and eventually kill it. But

793
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:09,000
Speaker 1: some parasitic wasps will lay their eggs directly inside the

794
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:11,920
Speaker 1: spider and then the larva eat their way out of

795
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: the spider like an alien chest burster. It's really disgusting.

796
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,480
Speaker 1: And just for a safety check here, there are no

797
00:51:20,600 --> 00:51:23,879
Speaker 1: wasps that do this to people, right, No, they're none

798
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 1: big enough to do it yet, not yet, not that

799
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 1: we know can. But think of whenever, whenever I think

800
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: about this paras parasitic stuff doing things to animals to

801
00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,360
Speaker 1: make them act against their own self interest, I always

802
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,920
Speaker 1: think of that parasitic fungus like erupts out of ants

803
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 1: heads before, right, Yeah, before it does that, doesn't it

804
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,839
Speaker 1: also do some kind of crazy mind control that makes

805
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:55,319
Speaker 1: them do something that like benefits the fungus itself. But yeah,

806
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:58,919
Speaker 1: crawls up a stock like a plant stock, and then

807
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:03,720
Speaker 1: it's final. The ant's final act is to cling onto

808
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: the stock with its mandibles, so it it's brain is

809
00:52:07,480 --> 00:52:12,279
Speaker 1: being so manipulated by the fungus that it's like clinging

810
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:15,080
Speaker 1: onto the stock with its mandibles. And then that's really

811
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:17,919
Speaker 1: good for the fungus, says, It grows out of its

812
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: head and then produces spores because it's got a solid

813
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,120
Speaker 1: anchor down onto the onto the plant or the branch.

814
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:28,040
Speaker 1: You know. One that while we're speaking of parasites, one

815
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:33,479
Speaker 1: that worries me as a cat owner is Toxoplasma gandhi. Yeah,

816
00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 1: we all probably have that, Like that's why we're nice

817
00:52:36,440 --> 00:52:40,960
Speaker 1: to cats I don't know, sing, So, yeah, you probably

818
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:43,279
Speaker 1: if you clean up the cats litter box and you

819
00:52:43,360 --> 00:52:47,200
Speaker 1: don't obsessively wash your hands every single time, you might

820
00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:50,520
Speaker 1: have it. And I mean there's actually pretty good chance,

821
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:53,200
Speaker 1: like if you've owned cats over a long period of time.

822
00:52:53,719 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: It's generally not a problem for humans unless you're pregnant,

823
00:52:57,040 --> 00:53:00,280
Speaker 1: in which it can cause birth defects or miscare age.

824
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:03,959
Speaker 1: And the other thing it's been linked to is potentially

825
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: triggering schizophrenia. That's a very very rare almost just like

826
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:13,600
Speaker 1: it's not going to happen to you, but it is

827
00:53:13,640 --> 00:53:17,240
Speaker 1: a documented effect, so they can a cat can literally

828
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:24,560
Speaker 1: cause schizophrenia in a person via the t Gandhi. I So,

829
00:53:24,960 --> 00:53:27,759
Speaker 1: I think we need to talk more about how spiders

830
00:53:27,880 --> 00:53:32,840
Speaker 1: are terribly mistreated in nature. Uh So, there's another mind

831
00:53:32,920 --> 00:53:39,960
Speaker 1: controlling machiavellian manipulator called the spider fly, and it's a

832
00:53:40,000 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 1: fly that injects itself into the spider's abdomen, lodging itself

833
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,719
Speaker 1: near the lung. And here's the crazy thing. It can

834
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:54,640
Speaker 1: remain there for years while it completes its development. So

835
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:58,600
Speaker 1: once it's finally ready to molt and emerge from the spider,

836
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 1: it control as the spider into spinning a protective cocoon,

837
00:54:03,719 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 1: just like we were talking about with the orb weavers.

838
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,040
Speaker 1: Then it eats the spider from the inside out, which

839
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:15,640
Speaker 1: is just the worst, but at least these ones are

840
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 1: kind of cute and fuzzy, so unlike the wasps the

841
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,440
Speaker 1: spider fly, they're sort of like these little bumbling cutis

842
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:29,239
Speaker 1: uh entomologous. F R Cold describes them as having a

843
00:54:29,239 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 1: floating sort of flight, rather undulating and uncertain. It has

844
00:54:33,480 --> 00:54:36,600
Speaker 1: the habit of buzzing around and circles when it falls

845
00:54:36,640 --> 00:54:39,880
Speaker 1: over on its back on a smooth surface, often doing

846
00:54:39,880 --> 00:54:42,400
Speaker 1: this for some time before it can regain its feet.

847
00:54:42,719 --> 00:54:44,839
Speaker 1: Most of the time it is making a high, thin

848
00:54:45,040 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: humming sound, so it's just like it's this dopey, kind

849
00:54:50,000 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: of like dorky little fly. But then it's really horrifying

850
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: and living inside a spider for years before killing it.

851
00:54:58,719 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: And this isn't like a a more supial situation, you

852
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,080
Speaker 1: know how like a joey can enter an exit the

853
00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,880
Speaker 1: pouch of the parent. It's more like a chest burster,

854
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: like I can't fly back in and out. It's a

855
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: chest burster situation, but with like a cute little like

856
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:21,000
Speaker 1: elm esque muppet character, like if An Aliens, just like

857
00:55:21,640 --> 00:55:24,600
Speaker 1: the chest Burster birth stance, like it's it's all low.

858
00:55:27,000 --> 00:55:29,560
Speaker 1: I'm kind of sold. It reminds me of this terrifying

859
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:32,040
Speaker 1: toy my girlfriend got my daughter for a birthday the

860
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:34,960
Speaker 1: other day. It's like a tiny puppy that lives inside

861
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 1: a croissant and you turn the croissant inside out and

862
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:41,239
Speaker 1: then the tiny puppy emerges. But it's really unclear, like

863
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:42,879
Speaker 1: the scale of it, Like is it is it meant

864
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: to be a tiny puppy or a giant croissant. They

865
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:49,200
Speaker 1: really don't make that clear. But um, yeah, that's not

866
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: very science at all. But that's what I'm picturing this

867
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:53,200
Speaker 1: whole time. I'm sorry. I don't know why toys have

868
00:55:53,280 --> 00:55:59,839
Speaker 1: gotten weird. I really have, they really have. You might

869
00:55:59,840 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: be comforting yourself with the knowledge that you're not a

870
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 1: spider and you're in no danger of a fly hiding

871
00:56:05,719 --> 00:56:08,080
Speaker 1: out in your lungs, But I want to tell you

872
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: the story of the human version of a spider fly,

873
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: a secret hideaway killer that will have you checking your

874
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:18,760
Speaker 1: cross spaces tonight. The Dinverse spider Man doesn't really deserve

875
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:22,799
Speaker 1: his name. His real name was Theodore Edward Coney's. He

876
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:27,080
Speaker 1: was a drifter who in nine decided he'd settled down,

877
00:56:27,400 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: but there was a little problem. The home he chose

878
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:34,160
Speaker 1: was already occupied. Coney has found a trapdoor in a

879
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:38,479
Speaker 1: closet that led to a tiny attic houbbyhole. He went

880
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,800
Speaker 1: undiscovered for five weeks, leaving his heidihold to occasionally steal

881
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:46,680
Speaker 1: food out of the fridge. One day, the homeowner, seventy

882
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: three year old Philip Peter's, discovered Coney's as he was

883
00:56:49,880 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 1: foraging for food. Philip whacked Cony's with his cane, and

884
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:58,480
Speaker 1: Coney has responded by brutally murdering Philip, bludgeoning him to

885
00:56:58,520 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 1: death with an iron stove. Stoker. Police investigated the murder,

886
00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:05,319
Speaker 1: but they found no signs of a break in, and

887
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:07,760
Speaker 1: though they found the door to the attic, they didn't

888
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:10,359
Speaker 1: explore it they thought it was too small for any

889
00:57:10,480 --> 00:57:14,280
Speaker 1: human person to fit through. After the murder, the victim's

890
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: wife and the housekeeper reported hearing strange noises in the night,

891
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:22,440
Speaker 1: and they believed the house was haunted, so they moved

892
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: out and Coney's presence remained unknown. He stayed in the

893
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:31,120
Speaker 1: vacant house until ninety two when police came to make

894
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:34,000
Speaker 1: a routine check and they heard noises coming from the

895
00:57:34,040 --> 00:57:37,680
Speaker 1: second floor. They followed the noise and saw a pair

896
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:41,880
Speaker 1: of legs vanishing into the trap door. They grabbed them

897
00:57:41,880 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: before he could disappear. He was tried and convicted for

898
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:49,920
Speaker 1: Philip's murder and spent his life in imprisonment. Although really

899
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: was that a punishment. His cell probably felt like a

900
00:57:53,680 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: sprawling estate compared to the tiny knot he hit away in.

901
00:57:57,800 --> 00:58:01,080
Speaker 1: So do you have any crawl spaces in your No reason,

902
00:58:01,240 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 1: just curious. Alright, So, thank you guys for coming on.

903
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: This is really fun. Do you guys have anything to plug? Yeah,

904
00:58:11,080 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: thank you so much for having a skatie. Yeah, you

905
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:18,000
Speaker 1: can catch Schmoll and myself on our show Ridiculous History

906
00:58:18,240 --> 00:58:20,800
Speaker 1: WI come out twice a week. You can find us

907
00:58:20,840 --> 00:58:27,200
Speaker 1: on Instagram, Facebook, all the podcast places Mainland, Right, what's

908
00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:29,840
Speaker 1: the show? We kind of just go into some of

909
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,640
Speaker 1: the weirder, little off the beaten path kind of history nuggets,

910
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:35,840
Speaker 1: a very kind of snack double show. Episodes are like

911
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: thirty to forty minutes, very bingeable. It's a lot of

912
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:41,040
Speaker 1: fun to do. And um, we also do another show

913
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 1: called Stuff they Don't want you to know, where we

914
00:58:43,040 --> 00:58:46,840
Speaker 1: take a an open minded approach to conspiracy theories, and

915
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: I would say we take a critical thinking approach to

916
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: conspiracy much better and more accurate. So you can you

917
00:58:53,120 --> 00:58:55,960
Speaker 1: can find us on those shows. You can find us

918
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:59,800
Speaker 1: all over the regular internet places and wherever you find

919
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,960
Speaker 1: your favorite shows. You can also when you find us

920
00:59:02,960 --> 00:59:05,920
Speaker 1: on the social media stuff, just hit us up directly.

921
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:09,800
Speaker 1: We're we're pretty approachable. Unlike some of the animals that

922
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,280
Speaker 1: we met in today's episode. We don't bite you, guys,

923
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:17,800
Speaker 1: aren't or or or yeah, or inject you with paralyzing venom.

924
00:59:17,880 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: Well that's polite of you, guys. You know, we try

925
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:23,160
Speaker 1: to be affable. That's sort of like urba that that's

926
00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:26,560
Speaker 1: our adaptation is it's like the super affability. Yeah. My

927
00:59:26,640 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: producers are always like ben, stop injecting people with paralytic agents.

928
00:59:32,120 --> 00:59:35,800
Speaker 1: That was before my time. So you can find me

929
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:39,959
Speaker 1: at Katie Golden or at pro bird Writes where it's

930
00:59:39,960 --> 00:59:43,080
Speaker 1: revealed I'm actually a bird. And you can check out

931
00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:48,439
Speaker 1: the podcast every Wednesday on iTunes or the I Heart

932
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:51,800
Speaker 1: Radio app or wherever you get your podcasts, and just

933
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:55,440
Speaker 1: hit us up. On Facebook, Twitter, and our website is

934
00:59:55,520 --> 00:59:59,240
Speaker 1: creature feature pod dot com. And thanks to the space

935
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,160
Speaker 1: Cosas for letting us use their wonderful song Exo Lumina.

936
01:00:03,920 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 1: Mm hm