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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind.

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Speaker 1: My name is Robert lamp and I'm Julie Douglas. Julie,

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Speaker 1: are you a sports fan? Would you would you categorize

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Speaker 1: yourself as a sports fan? Well, I mean the reason

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Speaker 1: why my voice is like this today is directly related

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Speaker 1: to me being a sports fan. Oh yeah, yeah, you

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Speaker 1: were yelling at them to turn their game down or no. No.

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Speaker 1: I was my synchronized swimming team last night and uh,

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Speaker 1: fourth quarter I was getting pretty rough and uh, Ethel

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Speaker 1: big Spee just threw her shoulder at when she was

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Speaker 1: trying to breach the water like a dolphin. It was

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Speaker 1: intense and uh so that's just you know, that's what happened.

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Speaker 1: I was like, go hammer Heads, Go hammer Heads. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I hear they're doing pretty good. Yeah the hammer Heads

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Speaker 1: this year. Yeah they're doing pretty good. Yeah. Well, sports

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Speaker 1: fanom is one of those things I've I have to confess.

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Speaker 1: I I've never really have gotten into team sports, and uh,

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Speaker 1: the rare occasions that I I am pulled into into

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Speaker 1: sports at all intends to be things that are like

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Speaker 1: one on one competition like I have in the past

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Speaker 1: been sucked into some mano a mano. Yeah, like I've

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Speaker 1: been sucked into some tennis. Before I found myself watching

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Speaker 1: things like um, like judo or Korean sumo. I thought

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Speaker 1: was pretty cool when I saw it once. Um, you

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Speaker 1: know these kind of things where it's like one one

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Speaker 1: dude batt on another dude to one gal bat on

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Speaker 1: another gal um. That kind of thing is about as

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Speaker 1: close as I come to understand. Because you're a wrestling fan,

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Speaker 1: right like with the upper case F. Yeah, well, I

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Speaker 1: you know, yeah, in the past, I've and you know,

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Speaker 1: in the current, when I have time, I I do

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Speaker 1: watch the professional wrestling and and that is not it's

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Speaker 1: hard to exactly quantify its position. It's four I think it.

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Speaker 1: It certainly exists outside of sports as this kind of

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Speaker 1: sports drama um scenario, so I don't really put that

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Speaker 1: in the same category. All right, So my question to

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Speaker 1: you is, when you're watching wrestling, do you scream uh

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Speaker 1: so vehemently that like spittle comes out of your mouth. No,

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Speaker 1: generally not, but I have I have actually not been

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Speaker 1: to a real live event or I haven't been to

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Speaker 1: it one of the bigger live events yet. As of

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Speaker 1: when this podcast publishes, I may have been because I

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Speaker 1: may be going to see the Muppets hosting Monday Night

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Speaker 1: Raw in Atlanta with tech Stuffs Jonathan Strickland. We will

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Speaker 1: see if that comes to pen. It's hey, the very

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Speaker 1: first episode of The Muppet Show had professional wrestling in it.

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Speaker 1: Look it up on YouTube. But no, it's weird when

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Speaker 1: when I'm watching pro wrestling, because it's it's on one hand,

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Speaker 1: I have to have this sort of suspension of disbelief

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Speaker 1: where I'm accepting the drama that is happening as real

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Speaker 1: on some level. In the same way if I'm watching

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Speaker 1: a movie which I know is is acted out by

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Speaker 1: by actors saw on one level, I'm kind of like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that this is the good guy, this is the bad guy,

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Speaker 1: and I'm I'm, you know, trying to figure out the

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Speaker 1: scenario that's taking place here. And then on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: there's a part of me that knows that this is um,

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Speaker 1: this is the an orchestrated and slash improv'd event, uh

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Speaker 1: no matter how physical between two performers, and sort of

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Speaker 1: evaluating on on that level. So so you're getting caught

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Speaker 1: up in the drama regardless and well, if it's a

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Speaker 1: good enough match that it's like a movie. Sometimes the

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Speaker 1: movie is not very good and it just does not

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Speaker 1: suck you in at all, right, right, which is probably

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Speaker 1: just like a sports team, like a particular game that

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Speaker 1: sometimes might be boring to a sports fan. That's right.

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Speaker 1: You hear people talk about like a game that is

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Speaker 1: just like say, someone, uh, what throw pitches? A perfect

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Speaker 1: game in baseball? Sounds good? Like that in itself is

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Speaker 1: exciting the fact that it's such a rarity to occur

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Speaker 1: that you want to be there when it happens, I understand,

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Speaker 1: But the game itself is probably not going to be

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Speaker 1: exciting beyond that possibility. Yeah, well, so that a lot

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Speaker 1: of drama plays into this, and we'll talk more about

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Speaker 1: this in a bit, but this is I think what

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Speaker 1: caught our imagination so much is that people really feel

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Speaker 1: very strongly, uh some sports fans, uh fanatics, really strongly

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Speaker 1: about their teams and identify of them quite a bit.

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Speaker 1: So we wanted to kind of scratch at the surface

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Speaker 1: and see what we could find out about why people

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Speaker 1: are so committed to this, right, and then we're both

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Speaker 1: coming at this is kind of an outsider to sports

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Speaker 1: fandom except for synchronized except for your synchronized women take.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, the interesting thing about it is that

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Speaker 1: that while there is a tendency for non sports fans

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Speaker 1: to sort of categorize like non sports fans and then

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Speaker 1: sports fans, is this kind of alien creature and and

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Speaker 1: certainly it can be hard to understand what's going on

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Speaker 1: with obsessive sports fans especially, But you see people of

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Speaker 1: all walks of life that are either drawn into sports

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Speaker 1: or not. You see women, you see men, You see

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Speaker 1: see people varying lifestyles and ethnicities and political beliefs that

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Speaker 1: are either drawn into sports and off in hardcore or

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Speaker 1: it just like they don't have the gene for it

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Speaker 1: or something and exact. And there definitely needs to be

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Speaker 1: more studies on that, right, Why some people gravitate toward

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Speaker 1: it and some people don't. Yeah, it's always happening with

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Speaker 1: me too, since I since I'm not a sports person,

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Speaker 1: I Am not going to be able to talk about

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Speaker 1: sports with somebody. So they'll be somebody I've known for

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Speaker 1: a while, I've been hanging out with a little bit,

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Speaker 1: and then suddenly it'll come out that they're into sports

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Speaker 1: in a major way. And I'm like, WHOA, I would

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Speaker 1: not have have paid you for that, But it just

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Speaker 1: drives home how you just cannot anticipate who is a

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Speaker 1: secret sports fan and who is not. Well. This is

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Speaker 1: from a New York Times article called Sports Psychology, and

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Speaker 1: they say that psychologists have long suspected that many die

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Speaker 1: hard fans are lonely alienated people searching for self esteem

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Speaker 1: by identifying with the sports team, but a study at

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Speaker 1: the University of Kansas suggests just the opposite, that sports

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Speaker 1: fans suffer fewer bouts of depression and alienation than do

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Speaker 1: people who are uninterested in sports. I thought was really

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Speaker 1: interesting and it makes sense, right, because it's a communal

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Speaker 1: thing for the most part. Usually people are watching with

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Speaker 1: another person or a group of people, and it's a

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Speaker 1: social event. Yeah, Like people go to like you pack

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Speaker 1: a stadium full of people for a football game, and

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Speaker 1: everybody there, for the most part, has one thing in common,

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Speaker 1: and that is that they like football. Now and then

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Speaker 1: what maybe like half of them only have uh, only

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Speaker 1: have a fandom for one team in common. You know,

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Speaker 1: one half is maybe supporting one team, half the other.

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Speaker 1: But uh, but even that, that's a large group of people.

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Speaker 1: That are really into a particular thing, into a particular team,

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Speaker 1: and it's an instant you know, like an instant conversation starter, right,

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Speaker 1: you can always talk about like, hey, how are the

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Speaker 1: how are the the Triglodytes doing this this year? They're

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Speaker 1: doing pretty good. I think they're gonna beat the uh

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Speaker 1: the Cornicians in the finals, you know, like that, it's

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Speaker 1: instantly something you can talk about in the elevator or

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Speaker 1: or even in just in passion debate, Like I remember

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Speaker 1: reading um I think, yeah, I think I read this

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Speaker 1: where it was Hunter S. Thompson talking about being on

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Speaker 1: the Nixon campaign trail and at one point finding himself

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Speaker 1: alone with Nixon and these there too. You could not

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Speaker 1: ask for two men of such different case and quality.

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Speaker 1: But they were both big football fans, like huge football fans,

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Speaker 1: so they were able to talk about football. So the

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Speaker 1: mere fact that sports fan of could unite Hunter S.

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Speaker 1: Thompson and Richard Nixon like like that alone speaks to

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Speaker 1: the importance of this phenomena. I have this memory of

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Speaker 1: him his ashes being shot out of a cannon after

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Speaker 1: he passed. Is that right, yes, or at least that

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Speaker 1: was the plan. I cannot call that his wish was

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Speaker 1: for that anyway, Yes, absolutely, nut Sky, and you're you're right,

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Speaker 1: sports can be a great unifier. Um, but the question

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Speaker 1: is like, who is exactly watching you know, sports? Here

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Speaker 1: from an ESPN study in two thousand and nine of

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Speaker 1: two hundred and nineteen million US sports fans aged twelve

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Speaker 1: and up, they found that, you know, that's kind of

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Speaker 1: a du College age men are major sports TV consumers,

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Speaker 1: watching more than three hours of national sports TV each week,

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Speaker 1: and this group is more likely to be watching the

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Speaker 1: events alone actually on TV rather than in a group

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Speaker 1: among males twin five to forty nine with families and

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Speaker 1: careers to consider, sports avidity and sports news TV viewing declines.

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Speaker 1: This kind of makes sense, right because priorities, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe you can't watch as many sports, and um, when

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Speaker 1: the male fifty and over demographic watches sports with others,

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Speaker 1: it's usually with women. ESPN says women fifty and over

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Speaker 1: constitute about thirty percent of his audience in this segment.

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Speaker 1: And then as far as women go, for females, ages

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Speaker 1: eighteen are actually the age of eighteen is a demarcation

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Speaker 1: line when sports really tends to drop off. So what

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Speaker 1: that means is that when probably a female quits playing

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Speaker 1: a sport, she may become disinterested in watching it on TV,

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Speaker 1: or she's watching it with the parents, with the family

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Speaker 1: as possible, yeah, or with friends. Yeah. Yeah, But that

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Speaker 1: age group, they do see sort of a fall off.

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Speaker 1: I guess what you're saying, leaving the house and then

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Speaker 1: you're maybe going off to encounter new friends with different

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Speaker 1: different tastes. Yeah, exactly. Women twenty five to thirty four

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Speaker 1: are the group that are at least interested in sports. Uh,

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Speaker 1: thirty five and older began to pick it back up,

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Speaker 1: and this really interesting. Women fifty and over become bigger

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Speaker 1: sports fans, and their viewing interests increases at a rate

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Speaker 1: much faster than men in this fifty and over group.

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Speaker 1: And I my grandmother was a huge sports nut. I

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Speaker 1: mean she could go through the Atlanta Brave if she could,

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Speaker 1: you know, talk about every single one of them and

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Speaker 1: talk about their personal lives. Um, I mean she would

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Speaker 1: gossip about it in addition to talking about their stats.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty amazing. But that sort of I think

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Speaker 1: this maybe makes sense in a way because, um, as

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Speaker 1: you get older, you're probably a little bit more engaged

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Speaker 1: in TV in sports as a diversion, right, and as

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Speaker 1: we'll talk about a little bit more, Um, you get

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Speaker 1: engaged to the point where you actually physically or physiologically

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Speaker 1: are mimicking the actions that someone on TV may be performing.

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Speaker 1: So if your mobility is limited and you see someone

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Speaker 1: out there on the field, it could really give you

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Speaker 1: a surge, right to be watching on this game making

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Speaker 1: like actually allow you to rise up from your chair

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Speaker 1: like you've been healed by a TV preacher. Yes, I've

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Speaker 1: seen that with my grandmother. Yeah, she's just yeah, she

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Speaker 1: just started running around touchdown dance. Yes, yeah, because yeah,

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Speaker 1: they're always performing touchdowns with the braves. But um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: she just had like knitting and just threw it down

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Speaker 1: like a football. I've also read the sports fandom plays

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Speaker 1: a huge role in the purchase of video game consoles

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Speaker 1: and video game industry because as popular as some of

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Speaker 1: these like role playing sci fi fantasy games have become, um,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really like the sports, the sports and the

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Speaker 1: war games that are really driving uh, the systems and

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Speaker 1: really getting the sales and the downloads, and and that

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Speaker 1: there's something that we discussed there is we'll talk uh

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Speaker 1: later on in this podcast. Ye war in sports there's

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Speaker 1: there's obviously something going on there. Well, and and let's

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Speaker 1: talk about in that in that context tribalism in modern society.

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Speaker 1: Some people would say that professional and college athletes play

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Speaker 1: a similar role for a city in the stylized war

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Speaker 1: on a playing field. Okay, so the theory goes, even

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Speaker 1: though professional athletes are mercenaries in every sense, their exploits

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Speaker 1: maybe recreate the intense emotions that some fans might feel

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Speaker 1: that you would probably expect in tribal warfare. So again,

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Speaker 1: the theory is sort of throwing it back to, you know,

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Speaker 1: on evolutionary basis, that this was something that we're hardwired

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Speaker 1: for and we can't help but become engaged in what

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Speaker 1: we see as tribal warfare. One team against another team. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like our city against yours since we since uh

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Speaker 1: Cincinnati can't actually invade um Chicago, Uh, they can make

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Speaker 1: an at least have to send a team there to

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Speaker 1: battle the other teams. So it becomes kind of a

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Speaker 1: symbolic tribal battle between these two groups. Like scratching that itch,

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Speaker 1: that that that we have for for this kind of competition,

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Speaker 1: for this kind of of violent encounter. Yeah, that Robert C. L.

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Speaker 1: Deanie is a professor of psychology at Arizona State and

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Speaker 1: he has said, quote, our sports heroes are our warriors.

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Speaker 1: This is not some light diversion to be enjoyed for

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Speaker 1: its inherent grace and harmony. The self is centrally involved

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Speaker 1: in the outcome of the event. Whoever you root for

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Speaker 1: represents you. So then yeah, there's this idea that you

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Speaker 1: know again that that's you out there on the field. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean you end up attaching your ego to these

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Speaker 1: these people on these teams and uh, and they're out

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Speaker 1: there fighting your battle for you. Yeah. And to the

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Speaker 1: extent that again, you're not just thinking, oh that that

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Speaker 1: that's kind of like me. Are I identify with that person?

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Speaker 1: Physiologically you're becoming very aroused. Um. This is from Charles Hillman,

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Speaker 1: a psychologist now at the University of Illinois, and he

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Speaker 1: found that Ardent football fans at the University of Florida

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Speaker 1: experienced extreme physiological arousal when they viewed pictures of Gator

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Speaker 1: football stars making game winning plays, but responded indifferently to

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Speaker 1: pictures of other athletes and teams. Wow, so these become

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Speaker 1: the heroes, These become the the the icons yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: not just a a sports athlete. It's my specific sports

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Speaker 1: athlete that I have been following for years that I

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Speaker 1: know all this biographical data about um quote. Individuals that

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Speaker 1: are highly identified with teams show extreme arousal compared to

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Speaker 1: the average fan amongst zealous male and female fans. Dr

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Speaker 1: Hillman found that the level of arousal, which was measured

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Speaker 1: by heart rate, brain waves, and perspiration um by galvanic response,

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Speaker 1: was comparable to what fans registered when shown erotic photos

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Speaker 1: or pictures of animal attacks. Wow, well there you got.

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Speaker 1: Everybody loves a good picture of an erotic animal attack.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I joke, but it actually it brings to

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Speaker 1: mind the the old like pulp men's magazine covers that

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Speaker 1: you would see where it would be like one bare

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Speaker 1: chested guy with like a handgun in a machete fighting

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Speaker 1: off a wild animal while a scatterly clad win the

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Speaker 1: woman uh coward in the in the cave in the

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Speaker 1: corner or something. You know. It's like, it's it's everything

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Speaker 1: in one shot. It's uh, it's masculine violence, it's uh,

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Speaker 1: it's the erotic vulnerability. It's it's wild animals and you know,

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Speaker 1: all all these things at once in one rush. It's

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Speaker 1: all the bodice ripping, flesh tearing excitement that you could

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Speaker 1: hope for. Yeah, and then you can have that, or

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Speaker 1: you can have football right right right, with the same

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Speaker 1: reaction right or same results. Say. Okay, So in a

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Speaker 1: moment here we're gonna talk about men and hormonal changes.

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Speaker 1: But right after this print. This podcast is brought to

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Speaker 1: you by Intel, the sponsors of Tomorrow and the Discovery Channel.

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Speaker 1: At Intel, we believe curiosity is the spark which drives innovation.

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Speaker 1: Join us at curiosity dot com and explore the answers

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Speaker 1: to life's questions. And we're back and where we're gonna

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Speaker 1: look at the hormonal changes you in sports fans. Yep,

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Speaker 1: you're watching the game and the game, the game, the

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Speaker 1: game is changing you. That's right. I mean you're not

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Speaker 1: like going through like some sort of like male menopause

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Speaker 1: or anything. But James Dabbs, a psychologist at Georges At University,

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Speaker 1: tested saliva samples from different groups of sports fans before

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Speaker 1: and after important games um In particular, he actually took

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Speaker 1: saliva samples from twenty one Italian and Brazilian men in

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Speaker 1: Atlanta before and after Brazil's victory over Italy in Soccer's

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Speaker 1: World Cup, the Brazilian's testosser and rose in average of

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Speaker 1: twenty eight percent, while the Italians levels dropped by twenty

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Speaker 1: seven percent. I mean, these are really these are significant

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Speaker 1: spikes and drops. How come um sports fandom can become

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Speaker 1: such an addiction really with many people, you know, like

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Speaker 1: to the point where the classic sort of man story

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Speaker 1: is like the couple goes out to a nice dinner

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Speaker 1: and the guy sneaks will keep sneaking away to the

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Speaker 1: bar to see to update the game, right, to find

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Speaker 1: out what the game score is, you know, And this

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Speaker 1: puts that in a lot more context, Like he's not

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Speaker 1: just a guy that's really into something and it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a jerk about it to his date, but he

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Speaker 1: has he has biological needs that need to be met

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Speaker 1: during the date by updates on the World Series game.

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Speaker 1: Well yeah, I mean it's because what's the payoff if

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Speaker 1: if they're victorious, you get this high high that you

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Speaker 1: get to actually feel for yourself, right that as if

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Speaker 1: you won the game yourself. Of course, the town side

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Speaker 1: is the low low and um DR dabs actually gave

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Speaker 1: questionnaires to various sports fans. Um, you know, after the

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Speaker 1: team lost or one and they found that their self

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Speaker 1: esteem was absolutely correlated with how that team performed, so

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Speaker 1: they could have a very low opinion of themselves, um,

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Speaker 1: and a drop in testosterone if the team lost. See

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Speaker 1: that's in It makes me wonder about like fans who

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Speaker 1: support teams that generally lose, that have a really poor record,

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Speaker 1: but they continue to really loyal fan Like if if

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Speaker 1: these are gods and our heroes and our mythic figures,

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Speaker 1: then I guess it's more in keeping with like the

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Speaker 1: beliefs of the Vikings and you know, the idea that

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Speaker 1: all the Norse gods will die in the battle in

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Speaker 1: the Battle of Ragnarok, and I guess that's kind of

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Speaker 1: like fans of the Minnesota Vikings. Who's whose team? Um,

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Speaker 1: And according to the sports fans kind of dies in

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Speaker 1: the Battle of Regnarock regularly on a weekly basis. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: some of that too. Um. They're sort of going back

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Speaker 1: to saying that the fans are really empathetic. It's probably

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Speaker 1: not something that people normally seeing. When you see someone

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Speaker 1: screaming on our TV, you don't necessarily say, oh, that

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Speaker 1: person is just full of empathy. But they really if

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Speaker 1: you identify with that team even if they keep losing,

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Speaker 1: then you know you still have this hope no matter

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Speaker 1: what the data says, and you know that your team

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Speaker 1: could pull it off. Yeah, and you and you still

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Speaker 1: you do get a number of benefits out of it. Hey,

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Speaker 1: there's still the community and the fans. Yeah. I feel

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Speaker 1: like there's this sense of of like long endured suffering.

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Speaker 1: You get to talk about I'm I'm a on of

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Speaker 1: the Vikings or or or in any other team that

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Speaker 1: doesn't have a spectacular winning record, but you get to

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Speaker 1: say I'm i'm I'm I'm a fan of this of

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Speaker 1: this team, our team. Man, we're not doing so great

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Speaker 1: this year. I mean again, it's still an instant conversation starter,

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Speaker 1: and you you kind of get the prestige of being

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Speaker 1: a loyal fan, like not a fly by night uh

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Speaker 1: fair weather fan who's just really into the Braves or

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Speaker 1: whoever when they happen to be doing really well or

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Speaker 1: when they're going to go to the World Series. You're

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Speaker 1: not just leaping on board the on the train when

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Speaker 1: the when the party's going on. You're there during the

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Speaker 1: long suffering seasons when nothing's getting done well. This is

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Speaker 1: from Boston dot Com Carl Crawford. He was talking about

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Speaker 1: his experience and he said, in many cases, research has

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Speaker 1: shown that tribal connection goes back to a fans childhood

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Speaker 1: when parents or siblings encouraged him or her to root

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Speaker 1: for a particular team. Jonathan Gray, editor of Fandom, Identities

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Speaker 1: and Communities in a Mediated World, compared of the inheritance

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Speaker 1: of sports fandom to the way in which preference for

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Speaker 1: a particular soap opera tends to be passed down within

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Speaker 1: families from generation to the next completely. And at least

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Speaker 1: in my family, this is true. My grandmother had her

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Speaker 1: preference and she took care of us sometimes, and so

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Speaker 1: that's what we watched, right. Grace says, it's something that

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Speaker 1: you can all talk about, just like what you're saying.

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Speaker 1: By the same token, he said, love of the socks

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Speaker 1: or the bruins can be imprinted on a child at

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Speaker 1: an early age and grow for a a mirror imitation to

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Speaker 1: a way to pay homage to one's family or school

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Speaker 1: or neighborhood. Or love of the Pretzels, remember that that

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Speaker 1: high school team. That's right, the Pretzels. Yeah, but coming

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Speaker 1: if you can root for socks. I guess I've never

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Speaker 1: really understood it. There are they socks? You how do

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Speaker 1: you root for a sock? Let me root for something

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Speaker 1: like a Well, look, you can make a sock into

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Speaker 1: a sock puppet very easily, and then you can imagine

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Speaker 1: it it being having some sort of humanness to it, right,

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Speaker 1: I can get that. But you don't see fans doing that,

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Speaker 1: do you know? I would that they did. I might

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Speaker 1: get into that everyone's watching the game through a sock.

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Speaker 1: But but then there's like a Georgia Tech here in

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta. They have the yellow jackets, and I can

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Speaker 1: get behind the all right, yellow jacket, this's wasp Wasps

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Speaker 1: are really cool. They're neat predators, their sleek they have

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Speaker 1: they're packing a sting. All right, that's a cool mascot.

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Speaker 1: But then I see signs that are like go jackets,

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Speaker 1: Like how can you remove the yellow? Because now you're

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Speaker 1: just talking about jackets. I'm just picturing that's just being cool, man,

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Speaker 1: I'm just picturing a bunch of like Fozzie jackets. That's

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Speaker 1: the in lingo. Who's gonna win between a Fonzie jacket

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Speaker 1: and like a lion or even a badger Fonnzie's jacket,

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Speaker 1: Are you kidding me? Like Fonzie's jacket could beat a sock.

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Speaker 1: I could see that, but but not like an actual

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Speaker 1: sentient being. I don't. I don't know about that. I

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Speaker 1: think that you don't understand that the powers of Fonzie there. Perhaps, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that would be an intense fight. Um. But as you

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Speaker 1: can see, there's a lot that is bundled up in

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Speaker 1: this issue. Let's see, here's another really interesting bit of

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Speaker 1: information that says the fans connection to the game includes

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Speaker 1: an emotional component from the amygdala, a memory component from

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Speaker 1: the hippo campus, and some empathy from the prefrontal cortex.

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Speaker 1: A subject feels some relation to the player or the

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Speaker 1: other fans on on his side. Some of the sensory

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Speaker 1: motor areas light up to as if the subject is

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Speaker 1: imagining himself as say, like the shooter in a basketball game.

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Speaker 1: I think that's amazing. Um. And a lot of that

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Speaker 1: actually correlates with what we found out about mirror neurons,

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Speaker 1: right right. So, mirror neurons are a class of brain cell.

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Speaker 1: They're found in several parts of the brains, and they

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Speaker 1: fire in response to chains of actions linked to intentions.

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Speaker 1: All right. So there's in the New York Times the

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Speaker 1: article cells that read minds. They found that when you

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Speaker 1: see somebody perform an action such as picking up a baseball,

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Speaker 1: you automatically simulate that action in your own brain. Okay, okay,

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Speaker 1: So I mean it's the it's the reason that we're

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Speaker 1: able to get into like even fictional characters. You know, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're reading what a character is doing, the actions that

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Speaker 1: that they're engaging in in on a certain level, you're

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Speaker 1: becoming that person. I actually read that experiment show that

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Speaker 1: when you read a novel you memorize positions of objects

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Speaker 1: from the narrator's point of view, which I thought, well,

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Speaker 1: that is amazing that you're creating this blueprint of his

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Speaker 1: fictional world. Wow. And that's I think that's especially true

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Speaker 1: in I mean, it depends on the writer. Some writers

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Speaker 1: are not exactly uh into giving you a whole lot

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Speaker 1: of detail. But take a novel like Alan robe Gerlaise Jealousy,

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Speaker 1: which it takes entire the entire book. This is gonna

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Speaker 1: people are gonna run out and buy this. When I

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Speaker 1: explained this, uh, the entire book is a gentleman on

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Speaker 1: a banana plantation, sitting in a room, staring out the window,

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Speaker 1: trying to decide in his own head whether his younger

428
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: wife is having an a fair with another plantation. And

429
00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:38,040
Speaker 1: so it's just a lot of it. Alan robe Relat

430
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:40,080
Speaker 1: is really into the details, and this book is like

431
00:22:40,119 --> 00:22:42,400
Speaker 1: basically him just going over the details in the room,

432
00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:46,119
Speaker 1: the view from the porch, the stain on the wall

433
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 1: where he killed a centipede, and uh and and just

434
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: trying to figure out and not being able to because

435
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:55,439
Speaker 1: he doesn't have enough information to actually come to an answer.

436
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 1: So the whole book is just his his mental anguish

437
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: over this unanswerable question and his observations of the room.

438
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,439
Speaker 1: And certainly by certainly by the end of it. But

439
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 1: tim pages into the book, you already have this really

440
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,000
Speaker 1: clear picture of the space. And even now I haven't

441
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 1: read it in years, but I can definitely picture that

442
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:14,000
Speaker 1: room that that guy is setting in that I am

443
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,440
Speaker 1: setting in. And that's another interesting thing. Doesn't use the

444
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,120
Speaker 1: word he or the man or anything. Alan Rodul writes

445
00:23:20,160 --> 00:23:22,800
Speaker 1: this book as if you are the person, but without

446
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 1: saying you, he just describes He's leaving it open ended

447
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,800
Speaker 1: in terms of coloring it the perception, right like you

448
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,960
Speaker 1: get the raw data, right, Yeah. I was just thinking

449
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:34,960
Speaker 1: to you about when we've talked about this before and

450
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:39,480
Speaker 1: in different contexts, but when you went to a room automatically,

451
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:42,639
Speaker 1: what you start seeing is actually your brain trying to

452
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,679
Speaker 1: figure out like the dimensions of a room. You're not

453
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:48,480
Speaker 1: necessarily perceiving it through your eyes, like your brain is

454
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,439
Speaker 1: constructing it for you. So it would make sense that

455
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,760
Speaker 1: if you're reading a text or you're watching someone play baseball,

456
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:57,440
Speaker 1: that you would start to see all of these different angles. Um,

457
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:00,400
Speaker 1: and even if you're playing pool, right right, I mean,

458
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: this is a game of mathematics. You're trying to predict

459
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:05,439
Speaker 1: what's going to happen with the outcome. It's going to

460
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,800
Speaker 1: be if you know, person A shoots this into that pocket,

461
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,439
Speaker 1: well it comes. It reminds me again of pro wrestling,

462
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,679
Speaker 1: though in this scenario pro wrestling too. In many cases

463
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,640
Speaker 1: it's it's like one dude versus another dude in a ring,

464
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,000
Speaker 1: all right, and there there's this stage battle that takes place,

465
00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:23,639
Speaker 1: and there are various scenarios that can go down. With

466
00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 1: one on one fighting. You have like a an underdog

467
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 1: against a far more dominant oppressor. Sometimes he is squashed

468
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: by that dominant oppressor. Sometimes he manages to score a victory,

469
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: that rush of that underdog victory against overwhelming odds. In

470
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: other cases it's individuals that are they're tightly matched and

471
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: ability that end up having a very competitive battle. And

472
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,159
Speaker 1: then in other cases it's like the the individual that

473
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 1: you're rooting for is like so overpowered that he's just

474
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 1: blowing through opponents with ease. And I can see as

475
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: a consumer of this particular media, you end up, you know,

476
00:24:57,040 --> 00:24:59,720
Speaker 1: if you put yourself in the shoes, uh, or in

477
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:02,679
Speaker 1: the boots of the individual. Uh. You know, it's like

478
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,720
Speaker 1: a simplification of so many things in one's life, Like, oh,

479
00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: they're overwhelming forces in my life, but here's this dude

480
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:12,040
Speaker 1: overcoming an overwhelming force that just happens to be wearing tiny,

481
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: shiny pants. Well, you know what the interesting part about

482
00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: that is if you are, if you're more engaged by

483
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: the shiny pants, laced up boots person that you're identifying with,

484
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:26,959
Speaker 1: then say your neighbor, you probably have more active mirror

485
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:31,840
Speaker 1: neurons than your neighbor does, and you're more empathetic. Huh. Well,

486
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 1: I Lucha libre is is another thing I have to

487
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,120
Speaker 1: mention real quick, this is the Mexican wrestling and they'll

488
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:40,360
Speaker 1: have the big match where two opposing wrestlers, a good

489
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: guy and a bad guy. Is this some one where

490
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: they wear the crazy Yeah, the crazy mask. But you'll

491
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,240
Speaker 1: have a technico and a rudo, a good guy and

492
00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: a bad guy, and they'll fight each other in a

493
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: big match where the loser is unmasked. He loses his

494
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,080
Speaker 1: mask and he has to reveal his face and his

495
00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 1: identity of the world. And I've seen some American fans

496
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: who have who have complained about, oh, well, these are

497
00:25:58,680 --> 00:26:01,719
Speaker 1: always predictable. You always know that who's gonna win in

498
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 1: this particular match. And I was reading, uh, some commentary,

499
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 1: this may have been on the Death Valley Driver board.

500
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:10,359
Speaker 1: But but someone was pointing out there was a little

501
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: more in touch with with Mexican fandom of Luca Libre,

502
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: and they pointed out, well, it's like a it's like

503
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: a play being acted out. It's like if you were

504
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 1: to go see a religious epic after acted out, be

505
00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: that the Passion of the Christ or the Ramayana or something,

506
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 1: you know, some sort of big epic, the actors are

507
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,600
Speaker 1: going to be different. But the but the ultimate message

508
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 1: is the same and that's what people really get into

509
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 1: the telling of that tale. And so with this particular match, yeah,

510
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:38,439
Speaker 1: the the winner may not be in doubt, but the

511
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,159
Speaker 1: tale being told is what people are connecting with. So

512
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 1: it's cathartic. Yeah, yeah, And I feel it's the same

513
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: way with with organized sports. And because certainly the same

514
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 1: situations I talked about, like a dominant force crushing its opponent.

515
00:26:52,119 --> 00:26:55,360
Speaker 1: Fans of really successful teams are very talented teams. They

516
00:26:55,480 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: enjoy that week after week. Oh man, we crushed the

517
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: Cornisians this uh, last Sunday, wasn't that amazing? Well not

518
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,960
Speaker 1: only that too, you've probably I mean, you've got a

519
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 1: history with the Cornish pens Um. You know, maybe you

520
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: you're you and your family have followed them for years

521
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 1: and years, and you have all this biographical data that's

522
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 1: just matrix in your mind, and so you, yeah, of

523
00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 1: course you feel like this is someone in your own

524
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 1: family that you're rooting for. And then if they're if

525
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: they're not very good, and suddenly they have that chance

526
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,840
Speaker 1: to overcome the the the oppressor, if they you know,

527
00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: they get and if they score that underdog victory, I mean,

528
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 1: that's when you go out in your tear stuff down

529
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: in the streets and you know, yeah, yeah, this is

530
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: a really interesting thing that we found out too. It's

531
00:27:33,520 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 1: about emotion and memory, and it's a study done by

532
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:40,680
Speaker 1: Duke University. And I find it interesting for two reasons. One,

533
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,080
Speaker 1: researchers at Duke University, we're trying to figure out an

534
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: ethical way to study overwhelmingly positive and negative emotions without

535
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: really putting the screws to someone and missing with their heads. Yeah,

536
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:53,160
Speaker 1: because you don't want to go to prison for your

537
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: for your research. So they came up with the idea of, oh,

538
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,480
Speaker 1: basketball fans. We've got Chappel Hill here and we've got

539
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,439
Speaker 1: Duke University. Is there's an intense rivalry here. We've got

540
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: all these basketball fans. Let's get some vetted fanatics in here,

541
00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: basketball nuts people, and run some tests and run some

542
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:13,920
Speaker 1: m r I on them and see how they respond,

543
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,200
Speaker 1: how their memory responds to these games. So they got

544
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:19,720
Speaker 1: fans from both sides and they had them watched the

545
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 1: game the same game three times, and then they put

546
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 1: them in the m r I and they showed them

547
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,680
Speaker 1: clips and right before someone was about to shoot, for instance,

548
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: they stopped the clip and then they tested their memory,

549
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: and what they found is that if their team had

550
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:37,399
Speaker 1: been winning or this was a winning shot, their memory

551
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:40,320
Speaker 1: was so much better than if it, you know, if

552
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:44,040
Speaker 1: the person failed to get the basket in or whatnot.

553
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 1: And you know, the correlation is that your memory is

554
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: really going to be informed by your emotional state at

555
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,440
Speaker 1: that very moment, which you know has all sorts of

556
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:59,080
Speaker 1: implications and things like PTSD and other areas in our lives.

557
00:28:59,120 --> 00:29:01,040
Speaker 1: Who are we're going through? Which romatic experience or a

558
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:04,480
Speaker 1: happy experience? The way that we remember sociramatic stress. Yes,

559
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:06,960
Speaker 1: I was thinking public displays of affection for some reason,

560
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 1: did I say no? No, you said the right one.

561
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 1: I was imagining like sports fans that are so they're like,

562
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: oh my goodness, we want and they immediately smooched the

563
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: fan next to them. Oh well, yeah, yeah, I don't

564
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,000
Speaker 1: know if that actually happens. It might happen. It might

565
00:29:18,040 --> 00:29:21,600
Speaker 1: happen if you're an American in Italy, because there's there's

566
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:24,719
Speaker 1: always a lot of smooching and a lot of sports

567
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:26,840
Speaker 1: going on. It's a nation of lovers. Yeah, so there

568
00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:28,960
Speaker 1: you have it. Sports fandom. Our attempts to sort of

569
00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 1: understand it a little that will probably have to call

570
00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: on you guys to give us a little more in

571
00:29:32,680 --> 00:29:35,600
Speaker 1: depth analysis from the sports fans themselves, because I know

572
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 1: some of you guys are sports fans and you probably

573
00:29:37,560 --> 00:29:39,360
Speaker 1: have some inside about this. So if you're listening to

574
00:29:39,360 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: this podcast and then you're gonna catch the big game

575
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: immediately after, or the or the or the weekend after, uh,

576
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: take some of this information with you, do a little

577
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,520
Speaker 1: self analysis, let us know. Yeah, I also want to

578
00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 1: throw this little tidbit out there too. Um and some

579
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: of this research about mirror neurons and sports, you know,

580
00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 1: really putting yourself in in the other person's place. It

581
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:02,320
Speaker 1: came up several times that this could be a really

582
00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 1: good explanation for porn. Well, okay, I just thought i'd

583
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: throw that out there because I'm sure someone has thought

584
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:12,680
Speaker 1: to themselves, why is porn like cantinent for humans? There

585
00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: you go, okay, well we'll we'll think about that as well.

586
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:17,840
Speaker 1: Yeah cool. Let me reach into the listener mail back

587
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,000
Speaker 1: here and then a lot of couple of digital correspondences here.

588
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,560
Speaker 1: First we heard from the listener Amanda Amanda Rights and says, Hello,

589
00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 1: my name is Amanda, and I recently listened to your

590
00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,960
Speaker 1: podcast about imaginary friends and thought I would share a

591
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,640
Speaker 1: recent experience with you. Like a lot of kids, I

592
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: had an amaginary friend when I was little. Her name

593
00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:37,480
Speaker 1: was Maria, and she was looking back apparently nondescriptive imaginary

594
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: friends go. She was a normal human little girl, a

595
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: little older than myself. I don't remember what happened to her,

596
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,480
Speaker 1: but at some point, as I grew up, she simply

597
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: wasn't a part of my life anymore. That would be

598
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: fairly normal and not worth sending an email about, if

599
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,240
Speaker 1: not for what happened next. When I was around thirty,

600
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: she abruptly made a short lived return to my life.

601
00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,360
Speaker 1: She had grown up and appeared to be in her

602
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: early to mid thirties, and informed me that she had

603
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,080
Speaker 1: lost track of me all those years ago and was

604
00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,200
Speaker 1: dropping back into check on me. She then left again

605
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: after a few minutes, and I haven't seen her since.

606
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: I have no idea what this says about my mental

607
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: state at the time, but I used the event as

608
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,920
Speaker 1: a starting point for my two thousand and nine in

609
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:18,760
Speaker 1: a in O w R I m O novel Intrigue,

610
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: which turned out to be the first novel I completed

611
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 1: to have the great work. I always enjoy your podcast,

612
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:26,600
Speaker 1: so yes, indeed, congratulations, I'm finishing that book and UH

613
00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 1: and certainly I think this podcast will drop in November.

614
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,160
Speaker 1: So if you have a novel kicking around in your

615
00:31:34,160 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 1: head and you really want to even wanting to write it,

616
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:38,600
Speaker 1: maybe this is the time to do it. You can

617
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 1: check out just do a search for in a n

618
00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:44,000
Speaker 1: O w R, I M O or not National Writing

619
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,240
Speaker 1: Month November you should be able to find some details

620
00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:51,120
Speaker 1: on that. Uh. And we have another listener mail here

621
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 1: from Derek. Derrick writes in and says Robert and Julie,

622
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:55,880
Speaker 1: why I wouldn't go so far as to say I

623
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:58,920
Speaker 1: still have an imaginary friend as an adult, My youthful

624
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 1: illusionary companion is still a presence in my life. When

625
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:04,280
Speaker 1: I was a kid growing up as a military brat,

626
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:07,680
Speaker 1: I chose as my imagination imaginary friend, the constellation of

627
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: Ryan Uh. Whenever he was in the sky, I would

628
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 1: talk to him and discuss my problems with him, And

629
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,440
Speaker 1: obviously in my mind I still personify it as a hymn. Still,

630
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,040
Speaker 1: when I find myself burdener stress, I occasionally look into

631
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:21,520
Speaker 1: the sky and talk to my old friend. Another place

632
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: where I think you'll find a lot of people with

633
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 1: imaginary friend like behavior is in traditional role playing games

634
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: like Dungeons and Dragons. Um and again, for anyone who

635
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:31,360
Speaker 1: posented me with this, I believe we have an article

636
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: on this. If you go to Houston Works stot com,

637
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: then search for Dungeon and Dragons. Dungeon Dragons in the

638
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: classic sense is like pen and paper to keep track

639
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: of the numbers rolling dies, and then everything else takes

640
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,760
Speaker 1: place in your head as a as an imagine imagined

641
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:48,800
Speaker 1: encounter of between you and your party members against you know,

642
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,680
Speaker 1: demons and orcs and what within your skill set that

643
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,959
Speaker 1: characters allotted. Right, Yeah, and not that I haven't played

644
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: you've played? Oh cool, Well I have played Boy back

645
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:01,000
Speaker 1: in the day too. We'll have to do a podcast

646
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,400
Speaker 1: on that anyway, um Derrick continues, is this. I've spoken

647
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: to many players at these games, and many have experiences

648
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 1: of being surprised at the choices that their characters may

649
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 1: despite the fact that they are, of course, are completely

650
00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: in control of that character's action. Thank you so much

651
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 1: for entertaining me every week, Darren. And indeed, yeah, that's

652
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,680
Speaker 1: it's kind of I remember in the The Imaginary Friends podcast,

653
00:33:20,920 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: we we briefly mentioned like fictional characters like as you're

654
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: writing them, and you kind of reach this sort of

655
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 1: surfboard point where you feel like you're not completely in

656
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: control of the board or the story or the character anymore,

657
00:33:31,560 --> 00:33:33,960
Speaker 1: and it's kind of propelled by its own energy and

658
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,840
Speaker 1: you're at least partially aboard for the ride, and you

659
00:33:36,840 --> 00:33:39,800
Speaker 1: don't know what's gonna happen next. So um, I never

660
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:43,480
Speaker 1: reached that point myself playing Dungeon Dragons because I most

661
00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: of my playing was just like in junior high on

662
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: scout trips and stuff. Yeah, I played with my brother

663
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:50,280
Speaker 1: as his friends. So I don't think I was able

664
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:55,160
Speaker 1: to bors your character. It was like the train of treatment. Okay, okay,

665
00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: so but I wasn't allowed to be like a wizard

666
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,720
Speaker 1: or anything. Oh you had to be a treatment, right

667
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,959
Speaker 1: and order to play with them. So I might have

668
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: some psychological issues from that that I not to work

669
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 1: out that. Yeah, that was kind of sexist. I was

670
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,200
Speaker 1: always and I tried to see I was always a

671
00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:15,960
Speaker 1: necromancer or tried to be, of course, But you know,

672
00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:17,440
Speaker 1: we should what we should do is we should bring

673
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 1: in the Dungeon Master for an episode of stuff to

674
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: blow your mind and you get to be whatever you want.

675
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: You can be a warrior or a wizard. You know,

676
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:27,800
Speaker 1: I'm about to try right now. I would like to

677
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,399
Speaker 1: do this and the dungeon Master will guide us through

678
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 1: and alarmingly, you know, short dungeon I'm on board, all right. Well, hey,

679
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,480
Speaker 1: if anyone else has anything to share with us, uh,

680
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 1: we'd love to hear from you. Be sure to check

681
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: us out on Twitter and Facebook. We are blow the

682
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 1: mind on both of those. And and again I feel

683
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 1: like I should stress if you haven't been to the

684
00:34:48,680 --> 00:34:51,600
Speaker 1: House of Works dot com website and a little bit,

685
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: do check it out because we have a brand new

686
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: homepage that's pretty amazing. Like it's just it's it's just

687
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,880
Speaker 1: it's a lot more engaging than the preview is homepage.

688
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:03,879
Speaker 1: It's a union. Instantly are hit with like a number

689
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,120
Speaker 1: of different articles and uh, it's organized in the really

690
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: cool yea, the organization is great. There are different tabs

691
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 1: where you can click on if you're always wondering I

692
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 1: want to win. The newest article on Austa worts is

693
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: there's a tab or new articles so you can see

694
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 1: them as they pop up. Yeah, so check that out

695
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: as well. And uh, you know, I'm about to give

696
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:22,080
Speaker 1: the call out for our email address, but we just

697
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,960
Speaker 1: got a piece of physical mail and the actually actual

698
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 1: snail mail snail mail, and it's pretty awesome. I'm going

699
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: to try to describe this post card. Um, it looks

700
00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:34,240
Speaker 1: to be like a Taiwanese wellness spot and which reflexology

701
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:38,960
Speaker 1: is being practiced, and it's a sort of photo realist shot.

702
00:35:39,040 --> 00:35:41,840
Speaker 1: I guess you could go. It's pretty great. And it

703
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:45,600
Speaker 1: comes to us from Sean and it says Hi, Robert Julie,

704
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,520
Speaker 1: greeting from Taiwan. I've been listening to you since science stuff.

705
00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: Thank you for producing a very educated show. So thank

706
00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: you Sean, um that we really appreciate that. And Matt Our,

707
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: producer appreciates that as well. Yeah, and if you actually

708
00:35:58,560 --> 00:36:00,759
Speaker 1: want to send us snail me, I'm not going to

709
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,839
Speaker 1: give the address out here because it's you got it. Yeah,

710
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,719
Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean I wouldn't know unless it

711
00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:08,000
Speaker 1: wasn't only well, we'll first let me say that you

712
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: can find the address on the contact page so Worth

713
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 1: dot com. But if you want to write it down

714
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: all cuickts if you are old fashioned and you happen

715
00:36:14,719 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 1: to have a pen and paper. Here it is three

716
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 1: five oh Peachtree Road to northeast Sweet Atlanta, Georgia, three

717
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 1: oh three to six USA, and nothing living. Seriously, yeah,

718
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: unless it never turns out, unless it's imaginary, imaginary living. Yeah.

719
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,959
Speaker 1: I guess we're welcome. Yeah, okay, And so the other

720
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 1: sort of traditional night to get in touch with us

721
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:39,279
Speaker 1: would be to send us an email at below the

722
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: mind at houstuff works dot com. Be sure to check

723
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,640
Speaker 1: out our new video podcast, Stuff from the Future. Join

724
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 1: House to Work staff as we explore the most promising

725
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,640
Speaker 1: and perplexing possibilities of tomorrow