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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Savior production of iHeartRadio. I'm Annie

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Speaker 1: Reso and.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. And today we have an interview for

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Speaker 2: you with a couple of our fellow iHeart Radio podcast

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Speaker 2: hosts talking about a book called Killer Cocktails.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and they are people that I suspect, you know,

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Speaker 1: you've probably heard of before, and if you haven't, you

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Speaker 1: should check them out.

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Speaker 2: Yes, so we have joining us today Holly Fry and

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Speaker 2: Maria Tremarki. They are, in addition to many other things,

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Speaker 2: the hosts of this historical true crime podcast called Criminalia

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Speaker 2: and the authors of the coordinating like History slash cocktail

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Speaker 2: recipe book Killer Cocktails, colon dangerous drinks inspired by history's

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Speaker 2: most nefarious criminals, which, of course we were like, you

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Speaker 2: need to come on Safer immediately to talk about this

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Speaker 2: with us.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and we discuss it in the episode. But there

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Speaker 1: are so many cocktail and mocktail recipes in this book, like,

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Speaker 1: and they have fun backstories and reasoning behind them, and

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Speaker 1: not even fun, but like well thought out, creative, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: reasoning behind these cocktails and mocktails, and it's just so fun.

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Speaker 3: It is so great. Really recommend it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you get to learn cool facts about you know,

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Speaker 2: terrible things that happened in history.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but they do talk about if you're if you're

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Speaker 1: uncomfortable with true crime, they do talk about like how

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Speaker 1: they they are responsible with it, Yeah, how they try

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Speaker 1: to be you know, they do mostly historical things, but

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Speaker 1: even then they try to think about like families and things.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, it's really informative and really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not generally a true crime human, especially like

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Speaker 2: current true crime stories. I'm like, no, that's about real

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Speaker 2: people and that's upsetting. But from a couple hundred years ago,

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Speaker 2: and I don't know, you throw some lady poisoners or

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Speaker 2: art heists or you know, accused witchcraft in there.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's really fun because they do like themes per

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Speaker 1: season or per chapter of the book, per chapter of

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Speaker 1: the book also yeah, and so yeah, you do get

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Speaker 1: like the art heist season or chapter, and so it's

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Speaker 1: it's just a really it's a fun way to go

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Speaker 1: about content and to have like, oh, here's a drink

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Speaker 1: you can make.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, go along with this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, cool story and a drink. And they do include

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Speaker 2: a mocktail for every single one, which is wonderful.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely so should we let asked Annie and Lauren get

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Speaker 3: into this interview.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, all right, Hi, and welcome to Savor.

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Speaker 5: Who are you. I'm Holly Frye. I one of the

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Speaker 5: hosts of Criminalia as well as stuff you missed in

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Speaker 5: history class, and I'm an intergalactic barfly and general history buff.

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Speaker 4: My name is Murriage Marky and I co host Criminalia

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Speaker 4: with Holly Frye.

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Speaker 5: And I have a lot.

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Speaker 4: Of years of writing that had nothing to do with

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Speaker 4: true crime before I started writing a true crime podcast,

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Speaker 4: so it has been very interesting and lots of murderous things.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you guys do deal with a lot of heavy,

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Speaker 2: heavy topics on your podcast and in this book, but

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Speaker 2: you try to, you know, keep it fairly light with

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Speaker 2: a kind of post mortem pun. I'd say it wasn't intended,

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Speaker 2: but it was intended after the facts.

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Speaker 4: So here we are in.

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Speaker 2: By, you know, right, like talking it through and having

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Speaker 2: a cocktail and a backtail recipe in there. What sparked

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Speaker 2: this concept? What made you guys put together like hay

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Speaker 2: murder and also cocktails.

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Speaker 5: We were working on the first season of the show,

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Speaker 5: which was about women poisoners, and I don't know what

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Speaker 5: made me think of it. It might have been when

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Speaker 5: we were thinking about what we were going to call

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Speaker 5: the season I think it was, and one of the

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Speaker 5: ideas that I was like, Oh, we could call it

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Speaker 5: What's Your Poison? And then I was like, oh, that

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Speaker 5: don't waste that there. What if we call a drink

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Speaker 5: segment that instead? And then that's how that happened.

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Speaker 2: It is.

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Speaker 4: I still have, like I call them now, the historical

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Speaker 4: documents of the podcast. I still have many documents that

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Speaker 4: have that listed as the season one title, which it

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Speaker 4: didn't end up being. But yeah, long ago.

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Speaker 2: Goodness, yeah yeah, because you guys debuted in August of

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Speaker 2: twenty twenty. What a time to debut a podcast, I know, right, yeah,

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Speaker 2: but I think correct me if I'm wrong, Holly, but

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Speaker 2: you actually weren't drinking alcohol during that time?

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Speaker 3: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: I feel like I feel like you have said to

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Speaker 2: me in the past and maybe you were lying, but.

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Speaker 5: I feel oh no, no, no, no, no no no.

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Speaker 5: I think there might be a little bit of confusion.

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Speaker 5: No what we discovered because as you know, you know,

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Speaker 5: Lauren and I have spent time together socially, like I

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Speaker 5: love a good drink, but I had the opposite thing

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Speaker 5: happen of most people, or not most people, but a

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Speaker 5: lot of people during the pandemic suddenly were like, Wow,

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Speaker 5: I'm drinking a lot because there's not a lot else

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Speaker 5: to do. And we discovered that I, without any intention,

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Speaker 5: was not drinking that much. Like my husband was like,

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Speaker 5: I don't remember the last time I saw you drink,

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Speaker 5: and I was like, because there's nobody to hang out with, like,

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Speaker 5: and we realized I had never really realized, like, oh,

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Speaker 5: I'm pretty much exclusively a social drink and I'm never

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Speaker 5: going to be like end of the day, I'm gonna

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Speaker 5: mix myself a times, but not very often.

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Speaker 4: Just in the morning when we do the podcast.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, let me just tell you. My local liquor Story

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Speaker 5: knows that I'm coming in every Wednesday morning because that's

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Speaker 5: my workshop period where I try to figure out drinks.

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Speaker 5: And they're like, that woman's here again at nine thirty

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Speaker 5: in the morning on a weekday.

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Speaker 4: They're like, let's keep our odd aisle stocked.

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Speaker 5: Right, you know, if they could just get the chartreuse

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Speaker 5: in hand.

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Speaker 3: Oh my goodness, it's a problem.

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Speaker 5: We're all struggling. Yeah, So I didn't I didn't give

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Speaker 5: it up. I just realized my consumption had gone way down.

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Speaker 5: But when we started doing the the cocktail segment on

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Speaker 5: the podcast, I realized pretty quickly. I was like, oh,

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Speaker 5: you know, I don't want to just be a dilettante

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Speaker 5: about this. So I went to bartending school during the pandemic,

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Speaker 5: like I did online bartending school, which was very fun,

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Speaker 5: and then you kind of got to taste it everything.

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Speaker 5: But you realize pretty quickly, like there there is that

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Speaker 5: thing of like I make a lot of drinks, but

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Speaker 5: a lot of alcohol goes down the scene because you

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Speaker 5: can't really be drinking everything you're testing.

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Speaker 4: Exactly, especially if you have to test functionality.

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Speaker 6: Will will see And to your credit, I have never

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Speaker 6: there's never been a day that we have recorded the

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Speaker 6: podcast where I've thought to myself, how many of these

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Speaker 6: test drinks did Holly have as much?

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Speaker 2: That's good, that's good to hear. Yes, drink responsibly everyone, Yes,

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Speaker 2: always always, you know, we we We've annie And I've

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Speaker 2: run into that a few times, especially when we used

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Speaker 2: to do video and we would go interview a bartender

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Speaker 2: or you know, something like that, and it would be

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Speaker 2: ten in the morning and they would be like, here,

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Speaker 2: have seven cocktails and it.

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Speaker 5: Was like, what.

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Speaker 4: I'm going to be a minute, I feel like we

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Speaker 4: have to.

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Speaker 5: Call a live.

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Speaker 3: So okay.

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Speaker 2: So obviously cocktails were already kind of an interest of yours,

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Speaker 2: Olly M. Murray, Is this something that you had as

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Speaker 2: well in your background.

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Speaker 4: Or No, I'm actually not that much of a drinker.

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Speaker 4: Like my drink when I go out would just normally

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Speaker 4: be like a whiskey on the rocks, kind of a

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Speaker 4: situation where you know and and there'd be a cocktail

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Speaker 4: to you that I knew that I also liked, but

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Speaker 4: I didn't really stray from from my two or three favorites.

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Speaker 4: But now I certainly have and I and I own

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Speaker 4: alcohols that ips I never thought that I would, and

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Speaker 4: I have become more of a fan of gin, which

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Speaker 4: was really kind of one of the drinks that one

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Speaker 4: of the spirits that I didn't really like in my

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Speaker 4: cocktails when we first started. But after four years of

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Speaker 4: just fun drinks, experiment hunting with drinks, choose your own

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Speaker 4: adventure drinks which I love those that has actually started

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Speaker 4: to come around for me, which is really I mean,

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Speaker 4: I guess a perk of the of the show, I'm

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Speaker 4: stretching my boundaries of alcohol, right, you're expanding those exactly. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: so we didn't. I don't remember when we began cocktails,

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Speaker 4: but it wasn't with the very first season. But it

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Speaker 4: was very very very early on. No, I mean the

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Speaker 4: first episode, not the first season. I think it was

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Speaker 4: like episode two or three, though I'm not sure that.

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Speaker 5: No, it was before we launched, was it.

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Speaker 4: Tilly had a cocktail pretty sure, and she was our first,

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Speaker 4: but she wasn't our first recorded That is what I'm thinking.

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Speaker 4: We were super early drink drinks.

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Speaker 5: Oh, you know what is confusing you? I know exactly

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Speaker 5: what what is doing this in your head? When we

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Speaker 5: first started recording, we didn't record the two segments together.

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Speaker 5: That might be what your is what I am thinking.

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Speaker 5: Producer at the time was like, let's do narrative and

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Speaker 5: then we'll do cocktails. Is a different recording session, almost

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Speaker 5: like pickups. That is why. But they were always intended

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Speaker 5: because it was in development when we decided to do it.

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Speaker 4: And I remember that our very first episode used a

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Speaker 4: Polish vodka, Like I remember it was there.

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Speaker 5: I justbraka everyone, It's Zbraka is really good. It's a

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Speaker 5: bison grass vodka and it just has this really beautiful, bright,

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Speaker 5: clean finish. I mean, most vodkas, you know, it's a

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Speaker 5: neutral spirit, so it doesn't have a ton of flavor.

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Speaker 5: But it's very funny to me because I have no

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Speaker 5: palette for beer, like none. Everything tastes like rolling rock

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Speaker 5: to me. But I which is, you know, fine whatever.

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Speaker 5: But like I will hear friends who are really into

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Speaker 5: beers and they'll talk about like all of the notes

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Speaker 5: that they get and I have none of that. But

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Speaker 5: I can do that with vodka. Yeah, yeah, that is

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Speaker 5: why I have you know, favorite brands. But Zubruka is

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Speaker 5: really nice because it has this nice green element to it,

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Speaker 5: like it feels very fresh and kind of springtimey.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can, I feel you, Like, like I've just

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Speaker 2: never really gotten into vodkas, but soju and like light RUMs,

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Speaker 2: I am super into the weird, funky flavors that can

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Speaker 2: come into that kind of stuff. So yeah, seen and heard. Okay,

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Speaker 2: now I need to get into another drink category.

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Speaker 4: I know, right, expand your drink categories. It's really quite amazing,

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Speaker 4: I find, although.

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Speaker 5: I do love the the that y'all use.

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Speaker 2: Y'all provide a mocktail for every single recipe as well,

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Speaker 2: because we're big fans here of like, there are many

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Speaker 2: reasons to not drink, and yeah, everyone deserves good drinks.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean that's like the big thing, right. We

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Speaker 5: started doing mocktails when we did a season called Impostors

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Speaker 5: and it was about people who, you know, we're pretending

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Speaker 5: to be somebody else. And a friend of mine reached

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Speaker 5: out about halfway through and she was like, I wish

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Speaker 5: you always did mocktail season because I'm sober. And I

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Speaker 5: was like, oh, I didn't know that, and I was like,

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Speaker 5: that's a good idea. And so then we just started

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Speaker 5: doing mocktails for every one of the drinks. So when

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Speaker 5: we got back to do the book, we had to

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Speaker 5: go back and do the first two seasons mocktails that

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Speaker 5: we hadn't done initially, which was nice.

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Speaker 4: So, yeah, the book has mocktails for everything, but the

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Speaker 4: show starts in Impostors.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, And.

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Speaker 4: It was really nice to go back and do the mocktails.

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Speaker 4: I like knowing that it's really well rounded that way. Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Did did bartending school teach you anything about non alcoholic

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Speaker 2: so much?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 5: Oh that's great, Oh about non alcoholic Yeah yeah, yes,

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Speaker 5: and no, because one of the big things that I

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Speaker 5: really my biggest takeaway, and I actually want to go

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Speaker 5: back and take some more classes just because it's good to,

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Speaker 5: you know, learn more stuff continuing in drinking. Is that

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Speaker 5: the big thing that really was my main takeaway was

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Speaker 5: it I really got much better at learning how to

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Speaker 5: balance drinks and to develop a palette for balance. And

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Speaker 5: that applies to anything, whether it has alcohol in it

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Speaker 5: or not, where you can be like this is this

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Speaker 5: is too it's too tart, this one's too sweet, this

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Speaker 5: one is not rounded out, there's something missing. It just

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Speaker 5: needs a little something something. So it kind of applies

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Speaker 5: to everything you make, whether that's an alcoholic libation or not.

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Speaker 2: What about true crime? Was that a thing that y'all

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Speaker 2: had an interest in or was it just because I

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Speaker 2: know that both of you are into history stuff.

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Speaker 4: But true crime, the true crime, like the origination of

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Speaker 4: this is best told by Holly because she was part

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Speaker 4: of it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah. So when we were developing the slate for Shondaland,

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Speaker 5: our boss Connell Burn had said to me, he sent

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Speaker 5: me a write up from I don't remember where about

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Speaker 5: Julia Tafana, who is a famous poisoner, and he said,

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Speaker 5: is this a podcast? And I was like, no, not

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00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,520
Speaker 5: on its own. I mean, the idea is great, the

255
00:14:17,559 --> 00:14:20,480
Speaker 5: idea of it is great, but she's really tricky because

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00:14:20,520 --> 00:14:24,359
Speaker 5: she is, you know, several hundred years back, she was Italian.

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Speaker 5: There are not records that are easily accessible unless you

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Speaker 5: literally travel to Italy, which even if we had the

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Speaker 5: budget for that, we were in the middle of a

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Speaker 5: pandemic stay at home time, and I am not fluent

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Speaker 5: in Italian, nor do I have someone I could be like,

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00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:41,480
Speaker 5: will you go read these things from me and report back?

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Speaker 5: So I was like, but the idea of women who

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Speaker 5: poison people is pretty interesting. Maybe that could be a podcast.

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Speaker 5: But then as Maria and I talked about that, we realized, like,

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Speaker 5: what if that's just the first season and each season

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Speaker 5: becomes a different flavor of crime that we can explore historically,

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Speaker 5: because true crime is really interesting, but it's a little

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Speaker 5: unnerving and I often feel like it gets a little

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Speaker 5: voyeuristic and like we don't want to do anything that

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Speaker 5: could result in someone knocking on a person's door and

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Speaker 5: be like, hey, I heard about your deceased relative. I've

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Speaker 5: sold the case, or can you give me infor me?

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Speaker 5: Like we don't want any of them. So all these

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Speaker 5: people are all these people are gone, nobody's nobody's gonna

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Speaker 5: bug anybody.

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Speaker 4: Right, We've made a point of doing historical true crime.

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Speaker 4: And I had never written true crime before. I'd never

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Speaker 4: written crime before, but I'd written all sorts of things before.

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Speaker 4: Holly know, I met each other at How Stuff.

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Speaker 2: Works and known each other for a minute, right like.

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Speaker 4: A good dozen years or so, probably, although we haven't

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Speaker 4: worked together that whole time, but as my editor, I

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Speaker 4: loved working with Holly and when she contacted me about

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Speaker 4: this podcast, it was nailed down that it was going

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Speaker 4: to be a true true crime podcast and probably you know,

287
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Speaker 4: we were looking at female poisoners and I was literally

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00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,800
Speaker 4: deplaning and all of my text messages were coming in.

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00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:09,880
Speaker 5: And I was like, Holly, Hollie.

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Speaker 4: So I clicked on that one first. I'm like, how's

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00:16:11,920 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 4: Holly doing? And She's like, hey, I have a question

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00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:16,080
Speaker 4: for you, and like and it just sort of went

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00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,720
Speaker 4: rolling from there, and when we were together in San

294
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Speaker 4: Francisco talking about what the what this show could be like,

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Speaker 4: and that's kind of when it started to expand, and

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Speaker 4: also when we decided that the kinds of true crimes

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Speaker 4: that we would talk about everyone's dead, everyone's got to

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Speaker 4: be dead. We look at their story and their time

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Speaker 4: and place and how it might be different today if

300
00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,760
Speaker 4: it happened, you know. And I think that comes up

301
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,360
Speaker 4: a little bit more in some season topics than in

302
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:49,520
Speaker 4: other season topics. You know, women poisoners, for instance, there

303
00:16:49,520 --> 00:16:53,440
Speaker 4: were many women executed who may or may not have

304
00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,200
Speaker 4: been in the situation that was described as they were.

305
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,600
Speaker 4: Other times we just did a Partner's in Ime season,

306
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,040
Speaker 4: everybody was guilty, you know.

307
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,360
Speaker 5: Like.

308
00:17:05,280 --> 00:17:07,639
Speaker 4: Pretty much every single person in that season was guilty,

309
00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:10,800
Speaker 4: but they are not in recent times. So I think

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00:17:10,800 --> 00:17:12,080
Speaker 4: we've only come up to about.

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Speaker 2: Nineteen eighty two ish.

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Speaker 4: Which feels recent to me because of my age, but

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00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:24,119
Speaker 4: is not actually a recent year now. Years ago, right, Oh,

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00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:25,359
Speaker 4: it was just spread around.

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Speaker 5: A corner twelve were kidding twelve.

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Speaker 4: Right, And I think about how old I was when

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00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:34,040
Speaker 4: when some of these more recent crimes were happening, and

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Speaker 4: I think sometimes I sort of remember them a little bit.

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Speaker 4: I don't our Partners in crime. Of course, we remember

320
00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,240
Speaker 4: none of them because most of them were public enemy

321
00:17:43,320 --> 00:17:48,240
Speaker 4: number one bank robbers and that sort of thing. But yeah,

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00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,760
Speaker 4: we just we try to be very constant that of

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00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:55,280
Speaker 4: the people who are involved or who were involved, and

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Speaker 4: try to treat their story with delicate gloves.

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00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:05,840
Speaker 2: Oh, that really comes through, and it makes it softens

326
00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:10,240
Speaker 2: some of the truly terrible things that you're talking about.

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Speaker 4: Gosh, sometimes I gotta say, it's so difficult. So I

328
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,439
Speaker 4: write the narratives and pass them off to Holly, and

329
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,159
Speaker 4: Holly reads them and she gets inspiration for the cocktails

330
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Speaker 4: and that's the short version. But in doing the research

331
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,600
Speaker 4: for these narratives, I mean sometimes you come across information

332
00:18:26,640 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 4: where you're like, wow, I really can't process this very well,

333
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:32,119
Speaker 4: very I just put that aside for a moment and

334
00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,520
Speaker 4: come back to it later because it's so terrible. Not

335
00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,639
Speaker 4: every season has that, and some seasons have it like

336
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:41,800
Speaker 4: every episode and it just keeps like you feel like

337
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,960
Speaker 4: you're plotting along in the land of Hell and you

338
00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:45,840
Speaker 4: kind of are.

339
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Speaker 5: Yeah, and then you end up doing a season on

340
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,000
Speaker 5: art Heists and everything's fun, right, It's ours the most

341
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 5: fun season ever.

342
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:57,120
Speaker 4: It was, so it was our favorite season, both of us.

343
00:18:57,359 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 4: I think, favorite stories, favorite drinks, favorite everything about Artius

344
00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:02,640
Speaker 4: was just great and we even talk about possibly doing

345
00:19:02,680 --> 00:19:05,879
Speaker 4: another one because it was just it was it was there.

346
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:08,399
Speaker 4: I mean, it's big, there's so many, so much to

347
00:19:08,480 --> 00:19:12,159
Speaker 4: cover as you really want to. But I don't believe

348
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,640
Speaker 4: that there was any murder that happened.

349
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 5: Everybody survived artheist season.

350
00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, some people went to prison, but everybody was alive.

351
00:19:20,440 --> 00:19:22,960
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, no one.

352
00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:26,240
Speaker 2: Very few people got like tuberculosis like it was right, Yeah,

353
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,920
Speaker 2: you know, no one was burned at the stake.

354
00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,160
Speaker 4: The surprising things were things like so for ten years

355
00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 4: that museum didn't have security and they got robbed three

356
00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 4: times and never did anything about it. Like that was

357
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,600
Speaker 4: the kind of thing that surprised us. That it wasn't

358
00:19:41,680 --> 00:19:44,480
Speaker 4: like what the murder weapon was. It was just have

359
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:45,080
Speaker 4: you heard of.

360
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 5: Somebody just took it off the wall, ducked it under

361
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:49,639
Speaker 5: their arm and strolled out or.

362
00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:56,120
Speaker 4: Joking a true story there there was one person very

363
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 4: similarly put it in a little like you know, grocery

364
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,720
Speaker 4: bag and walk doat But I believe he was arrested

365
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,200
Speaker 4: in the taxi cab outside. But like it was, you know,

366
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:05,840
Speaker 4: it was that kind of season where you were like

367
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:08,040
Speaker 4: you just took it off the wall like.

368
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:14,200
Speaker 2: So gentle. Yeah, along those lines, I actually wanted to

369
00:20:14,240 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 2: recommend to y'all. We've done a couple episodes here and

370
00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 2: they're about food heists. That is other material, right, ripe

371
00:20:22,359 --> 00:20:25,280
Speaker 2: for the picking again, pun intended after the fact.

372
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 5: Yes, I love the pun.

373
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:33,320
Speaker 4: My my LinkedIn profile says punter at the top, and

374
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:34,320
Speaker 4: yet I still love it.

375
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,320
Speaker 2: I know, right, I didn't used to like puns. And

376
00:20:37,359 --> 00:20:39,280
Speaker 2: I worked with Annie Reese for like seven years and

377
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:39,920
Speaker 2: here I am.

378
00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:52,920
Speaker 4: So what you're saying, is Annie backpack carrying punters? Happy

379
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:58,120
Speaker 4: to you? Annie?

380
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,119
Speaker 2: Did Did y'all always intend for there to be a

381
00:21:03,160 --> 00:21:03,920
Speaker 2: companion book?

382
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:07,160
Speaker 5: Yes?

383
00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,359
Speaker 2: And no, that might be like like a little bit

384
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:12,760
Speaker 2: insider baseball, because I know that they really encourage us

385
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,959
Speaker 2: to think about the extra stuff that we can do

386
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:17,800
Speaker 2: when we're doing just about Yeah.

387
00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,080
Speaker 5: I mean, since Criminalia is a little bit my baby

388
00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:25,480
Speaker 5: in terms of concept, there was always part of me.

389
00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,120
Speaker 5: And then once we had cocktails, I was like, that'd

390
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:28,960
Speaker 5: be a really cool book.

391
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:31,680
Speaker 4: But I think that's really when we when we were

392
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 4: there could be potential here.

393
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, But then like we were just busy making this show,

394
00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:40,400
Speaker 5: but we started getting so many reach outs from listeners

395
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,199
Speaker 5: that were like, is there a place where all of

396
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,320
Speaker 5: these are written down? Is there going to be a book.

397
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 5: Can I can you put up a website? Can I

398
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,560
Speaker 5: put up a website? Can you give me the recipes?

399
00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 2: Like?

400
00:21:50,680 --> 00:21:52,440
Speaker 5: There were a lot of those discussions.

401
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:53,919
Speaker 4: Right, there was a person who had kept a spreadsheet

402
00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:56,640
Speaker 4: like it's just amazing. Yeah.

403
00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,760
Speaker 5: And then I mean, the book has been in the

404
00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 5: works for over two years snow, and so there has

405
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:04,359
Speaker 5: been this long period of time where I would have

406
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,119
Speaker 5: to be really cagey with people, like on social media,

407
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:09,080
Speaker 5: where they would be like book when and I'm like,

408
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 5: stay tuned, like I don't, I don't know.

409
00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:13,560
Speaker 4: It's a surprise.

410
00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:14,160
Speaker 6: Yeh.

411
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:24,760
Speaker 5: Will's fingers crossed a right, So yeah, that was it's

412
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 5: a slow burn process.

413
00:22:26,760 --> 00:22:31,560
Speaker 1: But yeah, we do have more of this interview for you,

414
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:33,200
Speaker 1: but first we have a quick break for a word

415
00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:44,639
Speaker 1: from our sponsors. Now we're back, Thank you sponsors, and

416
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 1: now back to the interview.

417
00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:49,600
Speaker 2: So I think I think I counted that there are

418
00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 2: seventy four in the book something like that. How on

419
00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:58,640
Speaker 2: earth did you choose like, like, what do you guys

420
00:22:58,680 --> 00:23:02,920
Speaker 2: think makes a good stock and what makes a good cocktail? Relatedly,

421
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: so I would.

422
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 4: Say when when I was thinking about this and going

423
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 4: through sort of a I made an enormous spreadsheet of

424
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,040
Speaker 4: every single episode that we had, and I made the

425
00:23:13,080 --> 00:23:16,680
Speaker 4: cocktail list next to it, and my first pass through

426
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:23,040
Speaker 4: that was based on cocktail frankly, and then my second

427
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,600
Speaker 4: past was okay, which ones are both strong to go

428
00:23:26,720 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 4: in there? But knowing that, I kind of went cocktail forward,

429
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,159
Speaker 4: knowing that we would be shortening. So about half of

430
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,040
Speaker 4: the cocktails and stories in the book are also episodes,

431
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,440
Speaker 4: and there are about half that are brand new cocktails

432
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,640
Speaker 4: mocktails and stories, and so that too is a little

433
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,160
Speaker 4: bit difficult because you would narrow down the number that

434
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 4: she wanted, and then I'd pass over to Holly and

435
00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:53,840
Speaker 4: she'd be like, oh, we should do this one, you know,

436
00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:55,480
Speaker 4: pass back and forth. This was a sheet that went

437
00:23:55,480 --> 00:23:59,320
Speaker 4: back and forth a lot, and there was then this

438
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:03,680
Speaker 4: sense of okay, now half of these can only go in,

439
00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:05,800
Speaker 4: and we have to find some new ones. But I

440
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,560
Speaker 4: generally keep when we were thinking about new stories, I

441
00:24:10,640 --> 00:24:12,719
Speaker 4: keep a running list of stories that didn't make it

442
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,639
Speaker 4: into the season, and so a lot of them I

443
00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:19,000
Speaker 4: was able to pull from that, and then just some

444
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:23,200
Speaker 4: new research went into some more. But it was even

445
00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:26,880
Speaker 4: I would I would say, writing the narratives that are

446
00:24:26,960 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 4: in the book that were episodes. It was almost like

447
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 4: rewriting them anyway. It's just that we already had the

448
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 4: idea and you know, we had cocktail and mocktail available

449
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 4: for them, and like the research and all the research

450
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:44,040
Speaker 4: is done, and it's really hard to determine when you've

451
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,120
Speaker 4: got an episode and you have to narrow it down

452
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:50,200
Speaker 4: to like what I call postcard size, what stays about

453
00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 4: that person and what doesn't stay about that person. And

454
00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:57,520
Speaker 4: that got us into the into the editing process where

455
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 4: we found that, you know, removing something might effect Holly's drink,

456
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:04,600
Speaker 4: or moving something from Holly's drink intro would affect the story,

457
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,280
Speaker 4: and so we really had to be very aware of

458
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,159
Speaker 4: all the moving parts of the book at all the

459
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 4: same time. But yeah, it was really hard, I thought,

460
00:25:15,880 --> 00:25:18,640
Speaker 4: I think to narrow things down. There were just things

461
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 4: about some people that I wanted to make sure were

462
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 4: still part of their story, whether in the end that

463
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,760
Speaker 4: happened or not. But sometimes it's good. Yeah.

464
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 5: Yeah. The other flip is trying to balance out any

465
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,760
Speaker 5: of the given chapters because the chapters all mirror season, yes,

466
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 5: And my whole thing with any given season is that

467
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:45,439
Speaker 5: we try to do a balance of obviously you want

468
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,560
Speaker 5: a variety of drinks, but also I want to make

469
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 5: sure if we pull in an ingredient that is maybe

470
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 5: a little pricier or a little bit harder to get

471
00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 5: a hold of, then it repeats somewhere for people, so

472
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,439
Speaker 5: they're not like they wanted me to buy a bottle

473
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:04,120
Speaker 5: of foot and it costs how much and now it's

474
00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 5: now I don't know any other drinks to make with.

475
00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:08,880
Speaker 4: It used an ounce and a half and that's it. Yeah,

476
00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:12,439
Speaker 4: So that that that, that balance was so difficult. I

477
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:13,919
Speaker 4: think it was just it went on and on.

478
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 5: That was tricky. There were definite days of like, Okay, yes,

479
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 5: these are the best six stories from this season, but

480
00:26:20,359 --> 00:26:25,720
Speaker 5: the all vodka and we need other things. So there

481
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 5: were lots of discussions around those.

482
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, And I think that's also probably why we started

483
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:33,359
Speaker 4: out looking at these are strong stories, but what are

484
00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 4: the cocktails?

485
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 2: Like, No, that's that went That's right? Yeah, I mean

486
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 2: any story is a good story when you tell it right.

487
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,959
Speaker 2: It could be hypothetically I'm like, is that true? Maybe not,

488
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:50,240
Speaker 2: but I think no, I think because you haven't if

489
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:51,040
Speaker 2: you tell it.

490
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:57,440
Speaker 4: Right, Oh, what we can do with those stories?

491
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 2: Yes, but all right, so if there are seventy four

492
00:27:04,800 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 2: seventy five stories in there, that means that there are

493
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,120
Speaker 2: one hundred and forty to one hundred and fifty drink

494
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: recipes in there, and that sounds like so much research

495
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,119
Speaker 2: and development it is, Holly, could you, yeah, could you

496
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:18,760
Speaker 2: take us a little bit behind the scenes of your

497
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,640
Speaker 2: of your process for taking a story and making it

498
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,760
Speaker 2: into like telling a story through a drink?

499
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 5: It is. And actually one of those entries has three drinks,

500
00:27:27,840 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 5: oh three yeah, cocktails because I did a shot flight, which.

501
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,600
Speaker 4: Which we couldn't do in an episode, which was fun

502
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:36,119
Speaker 4: in the book, I was so happy.

503
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean, we probably could in an episode, but

504
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:40,520
Speaker 5: it would make a long segment. But the idea there,

505
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 5: which is pretty indicative of how I work, is that

506
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 5: in that instance, we were talking about an art heist

507
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:51,800
Speaker 5: that happened in Mexico on Christmas Day, and all of

508
00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 5: the things that were stolen were tiny.

509
00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:57,760
Speaker 7: Like things could They were all pockets and out, tiny

510
00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 7: sculptures and stuff, and so I was like trying to

511
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:01,760
Speaker 7: think about it, and I was like, you know, what

512
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,119
Speaker 7: would be fun is to do several tiny drinks.

513
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 5: And it was funny because when I would talk to

514
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,119
Speaker 5: like friends and I'd be like, oh, I'm doing a

515
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 5: shot flight, and they thought I would. They're like, are

516
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 5: you literally gonna put like two ounces of vodka in

517
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 5: one glass? And I was like, no, no, no, no, They're

518
00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 5: like tiny cocktails. Because my thing with shots is that one,

519
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:25,159
Speaker 5: not everybody wants to gulp of shots gross. Two, no

520
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,120
Speaker 5: one should ever be pressured to do that. But three

521
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 5: they should be yummy on their own. And my own

522
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,479
Speaker 5: personal thing is that not everybody likes the super spirit

523
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 5: forward drink. So if you make a shot, it should

524
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 5: be something that someone can add like two ounces of

525
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 5: ginger ale or two ounces of club soda or something

526
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 5: too and have a much more easy sip. So it

527
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:46,440
Speaker 5: has to be like a little balanced like that. But

528
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 5: I based all three of those drinks off of different

529
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 5: pieces of art that were stolen, Like there's one that's

530
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 5: like a green tea based shot that refers back to

531
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 5: a tiny jade mask that was stolen, and like things

532
00:28:59,000 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 5: like that.

533
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 4: Kicked ass in our heist season with how she inspired

534
00:29:05,680 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 4: her drinks. I always pull this season out in particular,

535
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,760
Speaker 4: and it's not me saying that the other seasons weren't

536
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 4: as good for cocktails. But I loved how her inspiration

537
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 4: worked with this particular season and how she pulled out

538
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,720
Speaker 4: what the actual stolen art was and brought elements from

539
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,320
Speaker 4: it to the drink itself. And that's just so creative

540
00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 4: and so inspiring for building a brand new cocktail for

541
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,480
Speaker 4: that people have never seen before. I just loved it.

542
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 5: Yeah, the drinks had to look like the art in

543
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:40,720
Speaker 5: some way, which was very fun and challenging but really delightful.

544
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 5: And then you know, in any time I get Marie's narrative,

545
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:49,880
Speaker 5: like it bounces back and forth, she writes the first draft,

546
00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 5: it comes to me, I will make it its rights. Initially,

547
00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 5: initially it would expand a lot on my end before

548
00:29:57,360 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 5: it got back to her, but we kind of developed

549
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:01,720
Speaker 5: a language, and now, like I sometimes there's no notes

550
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 5: at all, and sometimes it's just like, oh, you had

551
00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 5: a duplicate word in the area.

552
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:08,320
Speaker 4: Right, and that's it. I had never written for an

553
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 4: audio show before, and I have done a lot of

554
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 4: different forms of writing, but never never anything podcast wise,

555
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 4: and so for the first i'd say maybe a month

556
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:22,480
Speaker 4: to three months or so of the show, I would

557
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:24,400
Speaker 4: send something over and really rely on her to be

558
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 4: like this is this is more appropriate in a format?

559
00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:29,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, it is. It does sound different out loud

560
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: than it just does.

561
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:32,959
Speaker 4: It does even if you read it aloud in your

562
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 4: living room as you're writing it, it's not the same thing.

563
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:36,280
Speaker 4: And so I had to get each to that a

564
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 4: little bit when we first started, and now I generally

565
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 4: I'll leave comments for her sometimes like this is the

566
00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 4: most horrific thing that I have ever read. Write back

567
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 4: with like questions that she has about, you know, like

568
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:50,640
Speaker 4: you know, did so and so say X, Y and

569
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,360
Speaker 4: Z or did she go to those school or you know,

570
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 4: like things that could expand that I might have.

571
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 5: Just clarified exactly.

572
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 4: And Holly and I because when we started working together

573
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,240
Speaker 4: a long time ago, we were working as writer editor

574
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 4: and so we just naturally fall into this. And I

575
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 4: always used to joke about when we first started, Holly

576
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 4: can write. She can write just like me. She will

577
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,000
Speaker 4: absolutely she can pull it out. Now she's known now

578
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 4: my writing for so long, and she's like, let's just

579
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 4: read it. She just she just does it. She's got it.

580
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:24,440
Speaker 2: It's that editor brain.

581
00:31:24,680 --> 00:31:27,680
Speaker 4: We have a criminalia voice and we think they do.

582
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, And it's both it's very much a hybrid

583
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 5: of the way that the two of us tend to

584
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:35,760
Speaker 5: write and talk. And yeah, our phraseology has gotten to

585
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 5: be like a unison thing to finish your question about

586
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:45,080
Speaker 5: you know, how drinks happen? They just fall down from

587
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 5: the sky like a that's such a deep cut of

588
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,240
Speaker 5: a Tom Waits interview. I don't know why I just

589
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 5: did that, but.

590
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:53,720
Speaker 2: No.

591
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:58,040
Speaker 5: Usually what happens is I get that that initial version

592
00:31:58,120 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 5: back and I do my edits and I send it

593
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 5: back to and then I ruminate. And sometimes I ruminate

594
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 5: in a very passive kind of way where I go

595
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 5: and do other things and let my brain kind of

596
00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 5: percolate in the background. But usually there is either one

597
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,200
Speaker 5: turn of phrase or one detail or one thing that

598
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:20,320
Speaker 5: I just cannot stop thinking about, and I like, okay, well,

599
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 5: how does that translate into a drink? And also what

600
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 5: style of drink? Like are we going to do something

601
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,719
Speaker 5: like a sour? Does this make more sense as you know,

602
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 5: like a shandy? Could this be whatever it is? That

603
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 5: kind of feels right, it's very vibes. I wish it

604
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 5: were more scientific, but it isn't. And then I just experiment,

605
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 5: and sometimes I do that and I go nod is

606
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:46,640
Speaker 5: not the right drink for this, and then we make

607
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 5: another and we see what happens. But usually it stays

608
00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,760
Speaker 5: pretty close to the initial Like I actually write the

609
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 5: recipe before I pour anything, and then I make that

610
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:57,320
Speaker 5: recipe and then I go no, no, and I do

611
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,120
Speaker 5: tweaks and come up with where it actually lands. So

612
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,000
Speaker 5: because if I just go down there with no plan,

613
00:33:04,560 --> 00:33:05,960
Speaker 5: I don't. I'm just gonna make it.

614
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: Maybe you're just throwing stuff in a glass, like wait

615
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: a minute, a lot longer, and.

616
00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,560
Speaker 5: You're gonna wait. I'll literally just make a vodka collins

617
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 5: over and over, because that's.

618
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:20,479
Speaker 4: While I think about this, I'll make myself.

619
00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:27,720
Speaker 5: I mean, while I contemplate any of them.

620
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,960
Speaker 2: Uh, did you have any Did you have any recipes

621
00:33:31,000 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: that were like particularly difficult to crack or did they

622
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,480
Speaker 2: all just kind of come together eventually in their own time?

623
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 5: They kind of all come together eventually. We actually, I

624
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 5: will give you a little behind the scenes of what's

625
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 5: coming in this season. We're about to start. We are

626
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:53,840
Speaker 5: doing a season of cold cases, and these are hard.

627
00:33:54,200 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 5: They're way harder because you know, in some cases it's like, oh,

628
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 5: this person got murdered and nobody knows what happened to them,

629
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 5: And so in a way that's sort of inspiring because

630
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,040
Speaker 5: I'm trying to be very careful and respectful and not

631
00:34:09,239 --> 00:34:12,759
Speaker 5: find be like, here's the joyous part of their you know,

632
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:20,000
Speaker 5: horrific assa and this is fun because right, So in

633
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,600
Speaker 5: some ways we try to do that as you know,

634
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,080
Speaker 5: almost like an antidote to what we've had to deal with,

635
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,279
Speaker 5: but like in a way that hopefully respects them. There's

636
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,440
Speaker 5: one in the book about a woman named Janet Horn

637
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 5: who was executed for witchcraft, but in fact she probably

638
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,600
Speaker 5: just had dementia, and her story really breaks my heart.

639
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 5: And so her cocktail is called Apology, and all of

640
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:49,000
Speaker 5: the ingredients are things that are associated with making peace

641
00:34:49,200 --> 00:34:52,799
Speaker 5: and penitents. And so sometimes it's something like that where

642
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,440
Speaker 5: I'll be like, Okay, what herbs and flowers are associated

643
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,120
Speaker 5: with this idea I want to do, and I'll see

644
00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,920
Speaker 5: what's edible in that list, and then see what can

645
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:04,560
Speaker 5: be incorporated into a drink. And so it's a little

646
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 5: like I said, there's not much science to it other

647
00:35:06,719 --> 00:35:09,160
Speaker 5: than like knowing how to balance a drink or knowing

648
00:35:09,239 --> 00:35:10,360
Speaker 5: what different drink styles are.

649
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, no flavors are a science, but ideas are vibes.

650
00:35:13,560 --> 00:35:14,839
Speaker 4: That's right, right.

651
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 5: It's a little bit a little tricky.

652
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:22,120
Speaker 4: I can never I don't think i've ever no one

653
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 4: time I came close to guessing what the inspiration we've written.

654
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 4: We've done more than two hundred episodes, right, so this

655
00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 4: is this is a very small number that I've been

656
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,840
Speaker 4: able to sort of figure out as I've been writing

657
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:40,160
Speaker 4: what will the inspiration be for the cocktail? And I

658
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,440
Speaker 4: over the seasons started adding quotes, adding details, adding lists

659
00:35:45,440 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 4: of ingredients that came up in our snake Oil season,

660
00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:52,680
Speaker 4: just in case something from there might might just spark

661
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 4: for her. One that always comes up for me though,

662
00:35:56,680 --> 00:35:58,520
Speaker 4: And I think it's because when I wrote it, I

663
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:02,600
Speaker 4: was like, I added in a quote for a woman's

664
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 4: shabby black dress and I wasn't originally going to put

665
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 4: it in, and I was like, that's actually really just

666
00:36:10,000 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 4: like that describes her perfectly, so it has to go

667
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,759
Speaker 4: in there. And I put it in hoping that that

668
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 4: was like, I feel like this could be good inspiration

669
00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 4: for something.

670
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: Maybe it did.

671
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,319
Speaker 4: That in that particular episode, I was like, yes, I

672
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 4: picked I picked it. Like an over two hundred episodes,

673
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:32,640
Speaker 4: I finally got one, like I'm like.

674
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 5: God, Well, that's part of it too, is that I

675
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:40,839
Speaker 5: never want to be obvious. Yes, in part because it's

676
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:44,440
Speaker 5: fun to surprise Maria, I don't, but also just because,

677
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 5: like you know, it's fun to not be obvious.

678
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:48,880
Speaker 4: It's fun to not be obvious. And I made it,

679
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,200
Speaker 4: have made it a point since the very beginning of

680
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:54,480
Speaker 4: the show not to know the cocktail before it is

681
00:36:55,120 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 4: talked about on that episode, and so I from the name,

682
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 4: to the ingredients to all of it, I do not

683
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:04,359
Speaker 4: know ahead of time. And so that actually is one

684
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 4: of my favorite parts about doing the show. We do

685
00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:10,279
Speaker 4: it at the end, and it's usually right after some

686
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,360
Speaker 4: terrible paragraph that we have read about about a crime,

687
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 4: and then there's the the semi awkward soup. I want

688
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:29,959
Speaker 4: to have a drink, yes, And it only feels semi

689
00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 4: awkward because we just talked about somebody who did or

690
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 4: was a victim of something horrible, you know, And you know,

691
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:41,239
Speaker 4: how exactly do you move from that to tonally? Yeah, yeah,

692
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,200
Speaker 4: but you can, and you do, and then you get

693
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 4: into the cocktail segment and all is well, but because

694
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 4: you keep the tone that you had from the episode.

695
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:53,239
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's always a bit of a like, man,

696
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 4: I shouldn't have ended the narrative like that, even though

697
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,520
Speaker 4: narratively it was perfect right, but it does not fit.

698
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:03,040
Speaker 4: Change this up.

699
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,839
Speaker 2: We do have a little bit more of this interview left,

700
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:09,680
Speaker 2: but first we've got one more quick break for a

701
00:38:09,719 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 2: word from our sponsors, and we're back. Thank you sponsors,

702
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 2: and back to the interview. You've already mentioned a couple

703
00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 2: of them, and I don't you know, like like without

704
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:31,360
Speaker 2: giving away too many of your secrets from the podcast

705
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:35,360
Speaker 2: or the book, are there any stories or like historical

706
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,640
Speaker 2: revelations that have really stuck with you, or any cocktails

707
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,719
Speaker 2: or like ingredient revelations that have stuck with you.

708
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:44,400
Speaker 5: I'm trying to think a story.

709
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 4: I am. I have a few stories that always stay

710
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 4: with me because of certain details about the person. Generally,

711
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 4: there are a few, I would say, from impostors or

712
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:03,480
Speaker 4: few impostors that stick with me. There was a man

713
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 4: who in particular history always has stayed with me, and

714
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:09,279
Speaker 4: I think this was the third season that we did,

715
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:14,800
Speaker 4: and it was mainly because his wardrobe was so incredibly

716
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:19,360
Speaker 4: awesome that he was able to dress up and pretend

717
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:23,360
Speaker 4: to be anything made he wanted to be basically like

718
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 4: like an admiral to like, you know, like he was.

719
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 4: He was into consignment, I think, and he made it work.

720
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,560
Speaker 4: But also in impostors. There was a story that I

721
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 4: always like to think of as our as kind of

722
00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:41,760
Speaker 4: our feel good true crime story. There was a man

723
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:45,479
Speaker 4: named Barry Bremen. And Barry never hurt anyone. He never

724
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 4: He never pretended to be someone who existed already. He

725
00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:55,080
Speaker 4: would always pretend to be an athlete, and he would

726
00:39:55,600 --> 00:39:59,360
Speaker 4: run onto the basketball court or out onto the baseball field,

727
00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:01,719
Speaker 4: and you know, Tommy Lyssorda kicked him off one time

728
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:04,359
Speaker 4: and a lot of profanity, but Barry was just a

729
00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,080
Speaker 4: fun guy who wanted to be a Dallas cowboy cheerleader.

730
00:40:07,120 --> 00:40:10,160
Speaker 4: You know, there was nothing in his story that gave

731
00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,960
Speaker 4: me nightmares, and I've always his story is always stuck

732
00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 4: with me. But there's a second one, and it's a

733
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:18,680
Speaker 4: very little detail, and it's it's a personal one where

734
00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 4: when we were doing partners in crime, we had a

735
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 4: lot of bank robberies, we had a lot of you

736
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,120
Speaker 4: know that just Depression era, Prohibition era, there was a

737
00:40:29,160 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 4: lot happening that was partners in crime at this time.

738
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:34,920
Speaker 4: But We did a story about a couple that ran

739
00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:39,680
Speaker 4: a safe house for most Midwestern criminals at the time,

740
00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:42,640
Speaker 4: and like they all at some point had made the

741
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:47,360
Speaker 4: rounds to this particular oh the farm right at the Farmers. Yeah,

742
00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:52,160
Speaker 4: and it had, of course occurred to me that there

743
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 4: was a support system supporting all of these gangsters that

744
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,359
Speaker 4: were out there. Of course, right, I mean, how could

745
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 4: it work? They had to have had it. But Hill,

746
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:04,520
Speaker 4: writing that actual narrative, I was like, man, like, there's

747
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,400
Speaker 4: a lot going on kind of under the scenes here

748
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,560
Speaker 4: where you know, you hear a lot about you know,

749
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 4: machine gun Kelly, and you know, all these people al

750
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:17,760
Speaker 4: Capone and they're all staying in these these safe houses

751
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 4: or and the rest of the network of things that

752
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:24,000
Speaker 4: supported them in doing what they did in their criminal lives.

753
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:26,440
Speaker 4: And to me, it was just one of those moments

754
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,520
Speaker 4: where I went, oh, duh, I hadn't really thought about

755
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:35,480
Speaker 4: that before. There's all sorts of things supporting their way

756
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 4: of life, illegally supporting their way of life.

757
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:44,800
Speaker 5: Yeah. In terms of drinks, the esther Carlson always stands

758
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 5: out for me because that one's fun. It does a

759
00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:52,360
Speaker 5: trick while you're drinking. Yeah, because it's about Bell Gunnis,

760
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 5: who you know, everybody knows. She was, you know, murderous

761
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 5: and lured men to her farm with the promise of

762
00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 5: love and then feel boardy. And after she disappeared, she

763
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 5: was rumored to be living in Los Angeles under the

764
00:42:07,040 --> 00:42:10,160
Speaker 5: name of Estra Carlton. And so I wanted to do

765
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 5: a drink that started out one way and then became

766
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 5: a different drink as you went. So it has like

767
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,080
Speaker 5: it's a very basic drink of like a spirit and

768
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 5: a mixer. But then the ice you have to prep

769
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,440
Speaker 5: ice cubes in advance that have their cranberry but they

770
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,719
Speaker 5: have a layer of Holopeno juice in them, so as

771
00:42:29,719 --> 00:42:33,319
Speaker 5: you're drinking, it gets sweeter, but then it starts to

772
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:33,959
Speaker 5: bite you a.

773
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,319
Speaker 4: Little bit, and then it hits you on the back

774
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 4: of the head.

775
00:42:37,840 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 5: Like we have another there's another one in the book

776
00:42:43,719 --> 00:42:47,399
Speaker 5: that's from the season on Grave Robbers that starts out

777
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,399
Speaker 5: kind of like an espresso Martini and transforms a little

778
00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:53,640
Speaker 5: bit closer to something like a white Russian as you

779
00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 5: drink it, as the ice cubes melt down because it's

780
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 5: their cream ice cubes.

781
00:42:57,880 --> 00:43:02,919
Speaker 4: Bell, by the way, is the inspiration for the new

782
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:07,400
Speaker 4: episode coming up for Cold Cases because nobody ever found

783
00:43:07,400 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 4: out if Esther, Carlson, and Bell Gunns were the same person.

784
00:43:14,480 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 4: We're not covering her again, but I've been thinking about

785
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 4: it since your on her.

786
00:43:19,280 --> 00:43:21,440
Speaker 5: Yeah.

787
00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:24,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, Is there is there anything else that you can

788
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 2: tell us about that you're looking forward to for the.

789
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:33,960
Speaker 5: Future more drinks? Yeah, I mean, I'm I'm I'm very

790
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:37,960
Speaker 5: curious because we are in the middle of recording Cold

791
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 5: Cases how it's gonna unfold, both narratively and drink wise.

792
00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 5: We will land ycause it is more challenging than others.

793
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 4: I think it's going to be a difficult season two,

794
00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 4: just based on the fact that it's going to be

795
00:43:49,960 --> 00:43:52,839
Speaker 4: a lot of terrible things that happened to people.

796
00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's not a lot of resolution to a lot

797
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,839
Speaker 5: of pain, Yeah, which is always tricky. But other than that,

798
00:43:58,920 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 5: we'll just keep on trucking.

799
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 4: Yeah. I have a very long list of season possibilities,

800
00:44:03,440 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 4: and I actually was looking at it in the last

801
00:44:07,600 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 4: couple of days and I was like, Wow, this really

802
00:44:09,160 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 4: is a very long list. So there's a lot of

803
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 4: option ahead of us. And I always try to if

804
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,360
Speaker 4: we do a season or season or two seasons together

805
00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,839
Speaker 4: that are are just really difficult seasons to get through

806
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 4: for whatever reason it is. But usually it's because it's

807
00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:32,520
Speaker 4: it's just a really crimey crime season. Let's say, it

808
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:36,279
Speaker 4: may not be particularly gory or graphic, but it's in

809
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 4: some ways just a difficult season to to just keep

810
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 4: talking about these stories. I try to do something that's

811
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:47,400
Speaker 4: a little bit more like imposters, where or art heists,

812
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 4: where we weren't dealing on a on a weekly basis

813
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,200
Speaker 4: with terrible murders.

814
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:54,120
Speaker 5: You know, Yeah, I.

815
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 4: Don't need dismemberment in every episode that we do. That's okay.

816
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:01,439
Speaker 2: Sometimes I like for flavor like murder.

817
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:04,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, sometimes it doesn't. It doesn't have to be bloody

818
00:45:04,960 --> 00:45:10,960
Speaker 4: like I. Yes, so there is a little bit about that.

819
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:12,040
Speaker 5: Try a new drinks.

820
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:19,759
Speaker 2: I've been hugging the microphone this entire time. Annie is

821
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:20,919
Speaker 2: do you do you have?

822
00:45:21,160 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 4: Do you have? Questions?

823
00:45:25,160 --> 00:45:25,760
Speaker 3: So many?

824
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:31,279
Speaker 1: But we must, we must keep time in mind. I

825
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:34,399
Speaker 1: do think this is really amazing. You keep talking about

826
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: balance in terms of cocktails, in terms of stories, in

827
00:45:38,040 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: terms for both yourselves, for the listeners, for people who

828
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,600
Speaker 1: are buying new ingredients, and so I just I really

829
00:45:45,640 --> 00:45:51,719
Speaker 1: appreciate the work that went into that in the book.

830
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:55,000
Speaker 5: Because if you're gonna buy acovy more than I'm kind

831
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 5: of speaking from.

832
00:45:55,880 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: Yes, I don't buy a lot of ingredients, and when

833
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: I do, I want to use all of it, so

834
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: I'm really appreciative.

835
00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:04,799
Speaker 5: Yeah.

836
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 4: I actually I've wondered about myself if that was the

837
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,360
Speaker 4: reason why I would order cocktails out and about in

838
00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:12,960
Speaker 4: the world but not make them at home. Is because

839
00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,360
Speaker 4: I just didn't want to have all the bottles, or

840
00:46:15,400 --> 00:46:18,240
Speaker 4: I didn't have the right bottles, or you know, whatever

841
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 4: it was. It just wasn't there and it is now.

842
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 5: Although there is a funny instance when we were first

843
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,200
Speaker 5: developing the book. I can't remember if this was during

844
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 5: when we were prepping our pitch documents or we were

845
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:38,560
Speaker 5: already into I think it was then, or if we

846
00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,719
Speaker 5: were already into you know, editorial. But one of the

847
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 5: ingredients in one of the drinks. I think it was

848
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,680
Speaker 5: one of our book agents who brought I don't this

849
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 5: is really weird. Are you sure you want to include this? Like,

850
00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:53,920
Speaker 5: I don't know if people are going to be able

851
00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 5: to get it? And it was liquid smoke, yeah, And

852
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,720
Speaker 5: I was like, go down to the bodega. I promise

853
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:00,560
Speaker 5: you they have it.

854
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 8: But it was just something they had never had access

855
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,279
Speaker 8: or you know, considered, and so I think that they

856
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:11,680
Speaker 8: thought it was some like fancy pants unicorn like bar tool,

857
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,120
Speaker 8: and I'm like, no, no, no, no, it's literally one

858
00:47:15,120 --> 00:47:18,319
Speaker 8: of the many things you slather onto like ribs or

859
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 8: like stuff at a barbecue.

860
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:21,399
Speaker 5: But it was very, very fun.

861
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,680
Speaker 4: I guarantee that they were not thinking of it in

862
00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 4: their cocktail, you know, like it just did not come.

863
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,920
Speaker 5: And I don't think I did another liquid smoke drink.

864
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:32,040
Speaker 5: So if you bought some, I hope you also have

865
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 5: like a rib rub or something, because I didn't balance that.

866
00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 4: We mostly balance.

867
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:43,880
Speaker 5: Try. We tried.

868
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 4: If we were better balanced, we probably would have skipped

869
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,640
Speaker 4: cold cases this time and done them a light a

870
00:47:50,719 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 4: lighter season. But the lighter season will come next.

871
00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: Yes, well, I mean yeah, people could find other uses

872
00:47:58,560 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: for liquid smoke.

873
00:47:59,239 --> 00:47:59,880
Speaker 3: I think it's fine.

874
00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:01,400
Speaker 4: I think that's funny.

875
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 5: Though one would hope you're reading it very it was.

876
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 5: She was so earnest in her question, like are you

877
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,240
Speaker 5: sure you want to include this, And I'm like, yes,

878
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:14,400
Speaker 5: it's like a buck ninety.

879
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 2: It's more than you'll ever use.

880
00:48:20,239 --> 00:48:21,560
Speaker 4: Keep it in the bridge.

881
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:28,040
Speaker 1: So we like to always ask if there's something that

882
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,120
Speaker 1: you would like to talk about that we have not

883
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: asked about.

884
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 3: Is there something burning you'd like to speak to?

885
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,319
Speaker 4: You got anything burning? You gotta speak too.

886
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,000
Speaker 5: I mean, the thing's burning in my soul right now.

887
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 5: Don't have to do with this book, Like is everyone

888
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:50,439
Speaker 5: watching Skeleton Crew? Like different? I have other things my soul.

889
00:48:50,600 --> 00:48:53,040
Speaker 4: Now that the book is out and on shelves, I'm.

890
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 2: Like, so.

891
00:48:55,920 --> 00:49:00,640
Speaker 5: Right, definitely, that's definitely a moment. It was very terrifying

892
00:49:00,640 --> 00:49:02,520
Speaker 5: in the weeks leading up, and then it was like, well,

893
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 5: the cow's been flung. I can't I can't unring this

894
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 5: particular bell.

895
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,640
Speaker 4: That yeah, right, there was that one day where it

896
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:13,239
Speaker 4: went to production. You can't you can't stop it. Train

897
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 4: has gone. Yeah.

898
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,600
Speaker 5: No, I will say this was a funny thing that

899
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 5: I think is a good life lesson for everybody of

900
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:24,640
Speaker 5: how I tempered my own anxiety about the whole thing,

901
00:49:24,719 --> 00:49:27,800
Speaker 5: because I'm always like, one of the things that I

902
00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 5: always try to do is make any of these recipes

903
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 5: pretty approachable and accessible for anybody, whether they've been making

904
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,640
Speaker 5: drinks or not. But I also worry that people will

905
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 5: be like, what on earth is this woman doing? None

906
00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,400
Speaker 5: of these are that you know, particularly thrilling or exciting

907
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,200
Speaker 5: or whatever. Anyway, it's very it's stressful to me in

908
00:49:45,239 --> 00:49:47,160
Speaker 5: a way that other things are not. I don't want

909
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:51,799
Speaker 5: people to think I'm a garbage bartender. But then you know,

910
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:55,560
Speaker 5: if you move in the history and bartending world, there

911
00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:59,000
Speaker 5: are a lot of old like the earliest bartending books,

912
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 5: right like Jerry Tom he's like the godfather. And Henry Krattick,

913
00:50:03,719 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 5: who wrote the Savoy Cocktail Book in nineteen thirty, like,

914
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 5: these are all very old cocktail books. And I was

915
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 5: going through them, and recently, because of something on this show,

916
00:50:12,719 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 5: I was going through Harry Krattock's book and I just

917
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,200
Speaker 5: had this moment where I was like, this dude literally

918
00:50:19,239 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 5: put whiskey and cream in a glass and called it

919
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:26,000
Speaker 5: and he's like a godfather of cotail culture. And I'm like,

920
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:27,400
Speaker 5: I'm not gonna be so worried.

921
00:50:27,480 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 4: I enjoy this. It's fine, half and half whiskey.

922
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:34,160
Speaker 2: I hope you like curdles.

923
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:34,640
Speaker 1: Good luck.

924
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:46,120
Speaker 5: God's feed through Texas. And I was like, all right,

925
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:47,840
Speaker 5: all right, all right, like we none of us have

926
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,320
Speaker 5: to be that precious about the things that we create.

927
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:54,120
Speaker 5: There's you know, everybody. Someone is going to dislike probably

928
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,239
Speaker 5: everything ever made by anyone, no matter how wonderful it is,

929
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,360
Speaker 5: and thus we should not get so hungry about it.

930
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,879
Speaker 5: So that was a good like personal life less yeah.

931
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:06,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially with cocktails, you know, that's a matter

932
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 2: of taste and there you know, there's some, there's some sure.

933
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

934
00:51:10,000 --> 00:51:11,719
Speaker 2: There were some drinks in this book that I was like,

935
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:13,440
Speaker 2: oh my gosh, I need to make that immediately, and

936
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:15,040
Speaker 2: some that I were like, I'm going to leave that

937
00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:18,480
Speaker 2: for another human persons. That sounds delightful for not me.

938
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:21,880
Speaker 4: There's a drink in the book that I love the

939
00:51:22,520 --> 00:51:24,560
Speaker 4: I love the drink. It's like a creamsicle drink. It's

940
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 4: it's it's about it's the story of adel Hugo, Victor

941
00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:27,959
Speaker 4: Hugo's daughter.

942
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:29,439
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, Victor's party trick.

943
00:51:29,520 --> 00:51:32,760
Speaker 4: Victor's party trick. And I had come across in research

944
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:37,880
Speaker 4: of his daughter. His daughter had stalked someone, and so

945
00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:39,920
Speaker 4: Victor wasn't really part of the story. But I had

946
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:43,520
Speaker 4: come across in research that he had a special party

947
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 4: trick that he would do when he would bring all

948
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:49,080
Speaker 4: of his literary and artistic friends to the house. And

949
00:51:49,080 --> 00:51:53,239
Speaker 4: and Holly used in this this inspiration for a really

950
00:51:53,280 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 4: lovely like summertime drink. You know, it's it's orange vanilla flavored.

951
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:01,239
Speaker 4: It's it's just great, right. But Victor, and all I

952
00:52:01,239 --> 00:52:03,960
Speaker 4: could think of whenever I could find this research was

953
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,200
Speaker 4: he had to have had an enormous mouth, because here's

954
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 4: his victory. Would put an orange, real, an entire orange

955
00:52:12,239 --> 00:52:16,160
Speaker 4: in his mouth and then like shove sugar cubes into

956
00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:21,600
Speaker 4: his cheeks, take two, like shot two glasses of drink,

957
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:24,759
Speaker 4: and then chew the whole thing up. And that was

958
00:52:24,760 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 4: his party trick. And all I think of was was

959
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 4: it like a clementine or was that like a full

960
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 4: naval orange?

961
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:34,759
Speaker 5: Specific?

962
00:52:36,239 --> 00:52:39,000
Speaker 4: I need to know more because that's enormous potentially.

963
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 2: I have concerns. I have not just questions, but I have.

964
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:48,759
Speaker 4: Actually had concerns with the man choking concerns in particular, and.

965
00:52:48,760 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 5: Also the stomach acid.

966
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:56,359
Speaker 4: Can you imagine but the drink that came on it

967
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,600
Speaker 4: does not involve an entire orange in your mouth. And

968
00:52:58,600 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 4: I'm just very lovely.

969
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:04,320
Speaker 3: What a party?

970
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,959
Speaker 1: Can you imagine being at some party and some guy

971
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: being like, here.

972
00:53:09,239 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 4: Hold on, your host is like and I've I've got

973
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:12,919
Speaker 4: something for you.

974
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 5: Now I just like the idea that there were people

975
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 5: there that were like, oh god, I don't want to.

976
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,040
Speaker 4: You know. His wife's like I don't watch the second time.

977
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,920
Speaker 2: And oranges were expensive, like.

978
00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:32,600
Speaker 4: A holiday payment. He would do like I don't. But

979
00:53:33,120 --> 00:53:37,759
Speaker 4: sometimes research comes out with just spectacular things like that

980
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,759
Speaker 4: at that you can't necessarily use in the narrative, but

981
00:53:42,160 --> 00:53:44,200
Speaker 4: can be used in your episode.

982
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:46,759
Speaker 2: You never know where the reading is going to take you.

983
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 4: We really don't know where it's going to go. Yeah,

984
00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 4: that's true.

985
00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:54,200
Speaker 5: There's a jump scare in every story.

986
00:53:55,960 --> 00:53:58,480
Speaker 4: I think. Actually it's coming coming around to writing true

987
00:53:58,480 --> 00:54:01,560
Speaker 4: crime for the last four years really is, and that

988
00:54:01,719 --> 00:54:03,600
Speaker 4: is something that you you sort of get to look

989
00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 4: forward to in your research as as you're doing episode

990
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 4: to episode is kind of this sort of what's gonna

991
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:14,360
Speaker 4: happen here? Is it gonna be the way that? You know?

992
00:54:14,480 --> 00:54:16,600
Speaker 4: Like is the train gonna stay on the track or

993
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:19,360
Speaker 4: is it gonna go off rail? I guess we're gonna

994
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:19,799
Speaker 4: find out.

995
00:54:20,320 --> 00:54:24,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, very frequently, especially like the further back you go,

996
00:54:24,239 --> 00:54:26,760
Speaker 2: you're like, oh man, really they really didn't have Netflix,

997
00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:29,560
Speaker 2: like they were making their own fun, right, whatever was

998
00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 2: going on here exactly?

999
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 4: Like I don't want to be part of the nineteen

1000
00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 4: thirties and Midwest just just no, just I'm good.

1001
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:40,360
Speaker 5: Hard pass Yeah, essentially anytime in London at the Savoy

1002
00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 5: drinking whiskey.

1003
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:45,240
Speaker 4: And cream, right, whiskey and green my new favorite drink.

1004
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,439
Speaker 4: Part of me, I have to tell you, I don't

1005
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 4: know if you've tried it, but ever since you told

1006
00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:54,239
Speaker 4: me about it, Holly, part of me is like I

1007
00:54:54,320 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 4: kind of feel like it has to be tried, Like

1008
00:54:57,880 --> 00:55:01,400
Speaker 4: can I put it on ice? Like I need to

1009
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:08,240
Speaker 4: know go with God? Yeah, I'm pretty sure, Like exactly

1010
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:10,640
Speaker 4: how do I want to do it? And will I

1011
00:55:10,719 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 4: do it? I don't know, but I know that it

1012
00:55:12,719 --> 00:55:17,480
Speaker 4: will likely only be a sip and we're good.

1013
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: This is like a jump stair jump scare cocktail. I

1014
00:55:20,560 --> 00:55:21,279
Speaker 1: want to hear how this.

1015
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:22,000
Speaker 5: Goes for you.

1016
00:55:22,760 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 4: I know I might have to try it and report back.

1017
00:55:27,719 --> 00:55:30,280
Speaker 5: There are a lot of those in the old cocktail books,

1018
00:55:30,320 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 5: a lot of like I'm sorry, I'm.

1019
00:55:32,719 --> 00:55:35,280
Speaker 4: Sorry, and that last ingredient was what.

1020
00:55:37,239 --> 00:55:41,760
Speaker 5: Fill a wine glass with our snake of a tiple

1021
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:42,279
Speaker 5: of port.

1022
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:45,560
Speaker 4: I hear, I hear that if you if you low

1023
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:48,320
Speaker 4: dose it, it makes your your pupils will dilate, you

1024
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:49,320
Speaker 4: look very pretty.

1025
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 5: Oh, you can snack.

1026
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:53,439
Speaker 4: On the biscuits while you do the same thing.

1027
00:55:54,719 --> 00:55:57,720
Speaker 2: Get some radium, get some radium paint on your teeth,

1028
00:55:57,719 --> 00:55:59,360
Speaker 2: and you're going to really glow at the party.

1029
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:01,920
Speaker 5: Yeah, right, until your job falls off.

1030
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:06,000
Speaker 4: Exactly. Girls, they would just make themselves sparkle, you know,

1031
00:56:06,320 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 4: I mean, what's wrong with that? Until you don't have

1032
00:56:08,719 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 4: bones left? Until that bone up until the no bones party.

1033
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:16,480
Speaker 5: Fabulous.

1034
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,359
Speaker 4: That was a difficult season because they were there were

1035
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 4: snake oil season, because there were stories like, oh you

1036
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 4: were you know, in research you'd find X rays of

1037
00:56:25,040 --> 00:56:28,000
Speaker 4: jaws that didn't really exist anymore. And you know, I

1038
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,320
Speaker 4: mean some people just were selling like water in a bottle,

1039
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 4: but some people were trying to tell you that they

1040
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 4: could cure cancer with radium, you know, and those were

1041
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:36,880
Speaker 4: those were hard stories.

1042
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:41,600
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I am so glad that you guys bring

1043
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:44,200
Speaker 2: some levity to those hard stories. And also, I mean,

1044
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:46,520
Speaker 2: those hard stories are good to remember and good to tell.

1045
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,720
Speaker 2: And certainly you know, it's it's it's neat, So maybe

1046
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:57,000
Speaker 2: we won't make similar mistakes in the future.

1047
00:56:55,440 --> 00:56:56,800
Speaker 5: Make all kinds of new ones.

1048
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:02,279
Speaker 4: Yeah, people just do people stuff they talk about it.

1049
00:57:04,719 --> 00:57:07,080
Speaker 2: I think that's the name of that whiskey and cream cocktail.

1050
00:57:07,120 --> 00:57:08,360
Speaker 2: People just do people stuff.

1051
00:57:09,840 --> 00:57:18,320
Speaker 5: It's actually called a cowboy.

1052
00:57:15,360 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 3: Okay, it's a part of it.

1053
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:20,000
Speaker 4: It was a part of Snake Oil Naked.

1054
00:57:21,600 --> 00:57:22,040
Speaker 5: I'm sorry.

1055
00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:25,840
Speaker 2: I'm just coping with that, like I know, retort to

1056
00:57:25,880 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 2: handle like, okay, well, thank you so much. I'm like,

1057
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,200
Speaker 2: and please leave, Please.

1058
00:57:39,960 --> 00:57:44,040
Speaker 4: Take your cream and whiskey with you.

1059
00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:47,880
Speaker 2: It has been so delightful having you here and knowing

1060
00:57:47,880 --> 00:57:51,240
Speaker 2: about cowboys what they drink.

1061
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:54,560
Speaker 4: Like, Thank you so much.

1062
00:57:56,560 --> 00:57:57,760
Speaker 5: Thank you for having us.

1063
00:58:03,040 --> 00:58:05,600
Speaker 1: And this brings us to the end of our interview

1064
00:58:05,600 --> 00:58:07,800
Speaker 1: with Holly and Maria. We hope that you enjoyed it

1065
00:58:07,840 --> 00:58:09,800
Speaker 1: as much as we enjoyed doing it. It was so

1066
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:13,720
Speaker 1: fun we could have kept going. Please go check out

1067
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:17,840
Speaker 1: the book Killer Cocktails Dangerous Strengths, inspired by History's most

1068
00:58:17,840 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: nefarious criminals, and also the show Criminalia, which I believe

1069
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:26,320
Speaker 1: is coming out soon the new season as this comes out.

1070
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:31,400
Speaker 1: So go check those things out. Oh yeah, they're wonderful people.

1071
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:33,680
Speaker 1: It was very fun to talk to them.

1072
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 3: And if you try any of the cocktails, hell.

1073
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:41,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, right in let us know, yes, you can

1074
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:44,520
Speaker 1: do that in many ways. You can email us at

1075
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:46,200
Speaker 1: Hello at sabrepod dot com.

1076
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:48,520
Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on

1077
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:52,320
Speaker 2: Twitter and moving into Blue Sky, Facebook and Instagram at

1078
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:54,400
Speaker 2: saber pod and we do hope to hear from you.

1079
00:58:55,080 --> 00:58:57,880
Speaker 2: Save is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts my

1080
00:58:57,920 --> 00:59:01,080
Speaker 2: heart Radio, you can visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1081
00:59:01,160 --> 00:59:03,680
Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Thanks to

1082
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,680
Speaker 2: Holly and Maria for joining us today. Thanks as always

1083
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 2: to our super producers Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks

1084
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,240
Speaker 2: to you for listening, and we hope that lots more

1085
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: good things are coming your way