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Speaker 1: Welcome to Zero. I'm oscar boid. Methane is one of

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Speaker 1: the most potent greenhouse gases. We pump into the atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: we extract it in huge quantities and burn it to

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Speaker 1: power everything from household boilers and kitchen stoves to giant

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Speaker 1: power plants, and during that process tens of millions of

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Speaker 1: tons of methink gets leaked into the atmosphere, driving climate change.

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Speaker 1: It's a huge problem, but a problem that is relatively easy, cheap,

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Speaker 1: and quick to fix. Stopping methane leaks has been described

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Speaker 1: as one of the lowest hanging fruits in the fight

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Speaker 1: against climate change. So for this bonus episode of Zero,

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Speaker 1: I'm catching up with Action Rathy to talk about the

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Speaker 1: methane problem and how it can be solved. So very quickly,

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Speaker 1: let's just start at the beginning. Could you outline the

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Speaker 1: methane problem for me.

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Speaker 2: So, most of the time we talk about the climate

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Speaker 2: problem as a carbon dioxide problem, and that's right. About

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Speaker 2: three quarters or more of the warming is because of

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Speaker 2: carbon dioxide. However, a good chunk is because of other

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Speaker 2: greenhouse gases, and the largest bit of that is from methane.

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Speaker 2: The trouble with methane is that it's many times worse

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Speaker 2: than carbon dioxide ton for ton.

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Speaker 1: How many times for us?

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Speaker 2: The calculation is a little complicated because methane, once put

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Speaker 2: into the atmosphere, degrades much much more quickly than carbon

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Speaker 2: dioxide does, and so scientists calculated over a period and

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Speaker 2: they measure it in something called the global warming potential.

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Speaker 2: So over a twenty year period, methane is more than

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Speaker 2: eighty times worse than carbon dioxide ton for ton. Over

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Speaker 2: one hundred year period, it's about twenty five times, And

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Speaker 2: that tells you something because most of the warming that

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Speaker 2: methane causes it causes in the first twenty years, and

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Speaker 2: if you cut those emissions now, most of the benefits

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Speaker 2: you would get from cutting those emissions will also be

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Speaker 2: within the next twenty years. And that's the net zero

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Speaker 2: timeline we are operating on.

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Speaker 1: So it's a big problem, but it's a problem with

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Speaker 1: the potential upside. If we take action now, it will

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Speaker 1: show relatively quickly what are the main sources of me

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Speaker 1: saying so.

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Speaker 2: About sixty percent of methane emissions are because of human

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Speaker 2: activity and forty percent from natural sources. Within that sixty percent,

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Speaker 2: about forty percent is coming from fossil fuels, so stuff

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Speaker 2: that we extract from the ground, transport and then burn.

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Speaker 2: At every point in that chain, some of it gets leaked.

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Speaker 2: That's also the bit that can be very easily fixed,

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Speaker 2: and in fact, the International Energy Agency calculates that if

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Speaker 2: you actually fix those leaks, the fixing of the leaks

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Speaker 2: will pay for itself. The other sources from human activities

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Speaker 2: are more complicated. So there's agricultural methane that comes from

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Speaker 2: rice production mostly. Then there's methane from livestock wearing, so

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Speaker 2: a lot of cowverping laughable, but really it is a

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Speaker 2: big problem. And there is methane emissions from landfill, so

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Speaker 2: food that you put in the bin which is not

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Speaker 2: composted properly does get degraded and not just produce carbon dioxide,

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Speaker 2: but actually produce methane to.

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Speaker 1: So if we come back to that first most easily

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Speaker 1: tacklable source of methane emissions, which is from the fossil

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Speaker 1: fuel industry, which countries are contributing the most to this

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Speaker 1: at the moment, from.

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Speaker 2: Oil and gas, it's the big producers Russia, US, Turkmenistan,

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Speaker 2: which is a big gas producer but also a big

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Speaker 2: leaker of gas. There's also methane that leaks from coal production,

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Speaker 2: and China, which is a big coal producer, well the

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Speaker 2: largest coal producer, also is the largest emitter of methane

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Speaker 2: from coal mining.

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Speaker 1: Roughly how much are these countries emitting in terms of

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Speaker 1: tons per.

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Speaker 2: A so China is about twenty five million tons, Russia

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Speaker 2: around twenty million tons, the US around the same, Turkmenistan smaller,

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Speaker 2: but still I mean five million tons. That's a lot.

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Speaker 1: So how are these methane leaks actually being monitored?

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Speaker 2: That's complicated because it's a colorless ordorless gas, and to

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Speaker 2: monitor them you need special equipment. That typically is some

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Speaker 2: form of camera that can look in the infrared. So

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Speaker 2: there are methane hunters. These are just people who are

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Speaker 2: worried about these methane leaks who take these cameras and

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Speaker 2: go around oil and gas facilities to see if there

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Speaker 2: are leaks, and they often find those leaks. But of

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Speaker 2: course we've got hundreds of thousands of places where we

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Speaker 2: are extracting oil and gas, and that means you can't

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Speaker 2: do that labor intensive job for every site. So the

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Speaker 2: second stage is to put something in the air, typically

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Speaker 2: a plane that's burning fossil fuels putting CO two out,

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Speaker 2: but at least it's looking at methane leaks from the

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Speaker 2: sky and is able to point out where there may

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Speaker 2: be big leaking events happening. And then the final frontier

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Speaker 2: is satellite measurement, which is more emissions friendly because it's

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Speaker 2: not producing any CO two as it's looking at these

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Speaker 2: methane leaks. But then it's so high up in the

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Speaker 2: sky that the resolution is weaker. That means the type

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Speaker 2: of leak it can catch is often a large leak.

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Speaker 2: And so combine all of those and we get a

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Speaker 2: picture of where the major sources of methane are. It's

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Speaker 2: something that Bloomberg News has been following quite closely on

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Speaker 2: all levels of measurement, but especially on satellite measurement, because

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Speaker 2: many of the stories that our colleagues have done Aaron

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Speaker 2: Clark and Tokyo especially, have resulted in investigations from government regulators.

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Speaker 1: Once you have this data, you've picked up a leak,

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Speaker 1: either someone on the ground, one of these methane hunters

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Speaker 1: going and finding it, or from a satellite off in

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Speaker 1: the sky. How easy is it then to actually stop

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Speaker 1: that methane leak. If it's a major event, then it's

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Speaker 1: often quite easy because all you have to do is

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Speaker 1: really just stop the flow of the gas, investigate what's

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Speaker 1: gone wrong, and fix it. The more persistent and hard

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Speaker 1: to measure leaks are smaller ones, and those require companies

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Speaker 1: to put in the effort and technology often to come

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Speaker 1: up with a way to find those leaks and then

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Speaker 1: fix them. But this isn't cutting etche technology often right,

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Speaker 1: it's just upgrading the infrastructure to more recent, less leaky pipes.

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Speaker 2: Indeed, it's more sort of motivation that if companies really

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Speaker 2: want to do it, they can, and the International Energy

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Speaker 2: Agency says so that there are enough technologies available to

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Speaker 2: actually deploy these solutions today.

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Speaker 1: Is it a case then that individual companies who are

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Speaker 1: extracting fossil fuels are just in charge of monitoring these leaks,

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Speaker 1: or are there more concerted international efforts to try and

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Speaker 1: actually crack down on these leaks and make the progress

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Speaker 1: that's needed.

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Speaker 2: Most corporate emissions in most parts of the world are

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Speaker 2: currently voluntary disclosures. That means the way the companies measure it,

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Speaker 2: estimate it, calculate it is all based on rules that

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Speaker 2: the companies and the groups have decided on their own,

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Speaker 2: but as the urgency of climate change and the science

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Speaker 2: around methane has become clearer, governments have stepped up. So

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Speaker 2: we've got a big announcement at COP twenty six in

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Speaker 2: Glasgow in twenty twenty one when the Global Methane Pledge

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Speaker 2: was signed.

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Speaker 3: Today we are officially launching our Missane Pledge and we're

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Speaker 3: proud and happy and grateful that over eighty countries have

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Speaker 3: signed up. This is fantastic. Together, these over eighty countries

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Speaker 3: commit to reduce global methane emissions by at least thirty

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Speaker 3: percent by twenty and thirty from twenty to twenty levels on.

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Speaker 2: Alongside that, a UN body launched a Methane Emissions Observatory

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Speaker 2: which will use some of these tools like satellites to

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Speaker 2: spot places where methane emissions are happening and help the

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Speaker 2: countries that have made the pledges to actually meet them.

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Speaker 2: So the news is starting to tighten just that little bit,

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Speaker 2: but could go a lot farther, lot quicker.

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Speaker 1: And are we actually seeing specific action being taken as

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Speaker 1: a result of these pledges.

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Speaker 2: The oil and gas industry is starting to talk about

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Speaker 2: it even touted. So Sultan al Jabber, who is the

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Speaker 2: president of COP twenty eight but also the head of Adnok,

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Speaker 2: which is an oil and gas company, has said that

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Speaker 2: oil and gas companies should have zero methane emissions by

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Speaker 2: twenty thirty. Now this is backed up by government pledges

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Speaker 2: which are looking at reducing all emissions from methane by

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Speaker 2: thirty percent by twenty thirty. Some of them have put

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Speaker 2: those pledges into law, like the European Union has done.

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Speaker 2: There are certain rules expected from the US Environmental Protection

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Speaker 2: Agency that will help reduce emissions. So it's starting to

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Speaker 2: happen in many different places, and it is in some

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Speaker 2: way a concerted effort because there is a global goal,

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Speaker 2: but it requires monitoring from independent actors because it's not

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Speaker 2: a given that these things will happen.

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Speaker 1: So, say we do actually manage to stop all the

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Speaker 1: methane leaks in the world, what kind of impact would

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Speaker 1: that actually make.

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Speaker 2: So this is going to be numbers heavy, but stick

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Speaker 2: with me because it's worth it. Reducing methane emissions associated

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Speaker 2: with just the human part by fifty percent over the

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Speaker 2: next thirty years will avoid global warming by point two

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Speaker 2: degrees celsius. Now, if point two degree celsius sounds small. Well,

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Speaker 2: the difference between one point five degrees celsius and two

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Speaker 2: degrees celsius is point five degrees celsius. So it's a

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Speaker 2: really meaningful fraction of the warming that could be avoided

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Speaker 2: with a pretty reasonable reduction in methane emissions. Now, let's

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Speaker 2: take the Trutmenistan example.

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Speaker 1: Our favorite new country run.

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Speaker 2: By a very interesting dictator who you should read about

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Speaker 2: on Bloomberg dot com slash green. But if that country

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Speaker 2: is actually able to stop the leak, use that methane

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Speaker 2: and even send it to the European Union to burn,

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Speaker 2: the reduction in emissions would be the equivalent of two

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Speaker 2: hundred and ninety million tons of THEOTO every year. And

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Speaker 2: that's the emissions of Taiwan, which is the twenty first

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Speaker 2: largest producer of greenhouse gases. So we're not talking small numbers.

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Speaker 1: Here, and Techmanistan is not even the biggest vendor here.

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Speaker 1: If Russia, China, the US could will do the same,

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Speaker 1: that impact would be tinormous.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: We started this off by saying that stuffing methaneleaks from

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Speaker 1: fossil fuel extraction is the kind of easiest, cheapest fix

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Speaker 1: that we can undertake. How much harder is it to

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Speaker 1: tackle the other human sources of methane emissions.

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Speaker 2: That is harder, but there are solutions, so on rice production,

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Speaker 2: there are methods you can use to reduce methane emissions

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Speaker 2: from rice production. Use less water is one of the solutions,

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Speaker 2: which also would be a good solution for the water

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Speaker 2: crisis that many of the same regions are facing. There

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Speaker 2: are also solutions that are being tested on cows, so

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Speaker 2: they are being given different types of feed, or they

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Speaker 2: are additives that are given to the same type of

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Speaker 2: feed that reduce the production of methane from the microbes

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Speaker 2: that sit in the cow's guts. All of that will contribute,

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Speaker 2: but it's much much harder and will be more expensive

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Speaker 2: than actually what fossil fuel companies can do by stopping links.

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Speaker 1: And then finally, you said about sixty percent of all

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Speaker 1: deneathen emissions in the world right now are from human sources,

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Speaker 1: which leaves about forty percent from natural sources. What can

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Speaker 1: we do to reduce those emissions, if anything at all?

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Speaker 2: Not very much. The natural sources are those which actually

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Speaker 2: might be made worse because of climate change because they

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Speaker 2: come from places like wetlands, or they may come from

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Speaker 2: the melting of permafrost in the northern territories in Russia

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Speaker 2: or Canada which have been well permanently frozen, but climate

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Speaker 2: change will warm them up and cause the degradation of

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Speaker 2: the underlying carbon into methane, but also COO two. And

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Speaker 2: that's why, because you can't stop those natural sources, ensuring

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Speaker 2: that you slow down warming period will allow you to

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Speaker 2: slow down the emissions from those natural sources. So it

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Speaker 2: is a self serving argument in a way, stop the

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Speaker 2: methane emissions from human activity, and of course stop the

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Speaker 2: greenose gas emissions grate large from human activity, and then

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Speaker 2: you can manage the methane emissions that come from natural sources.

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Speaker 1: Actually, thank you very much.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, because methane was one of the first stories

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Speaker 2: we got onto here at Bloomberg Green after it's launch

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty, and it's really been a fruitful exercise

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Speaker 2: because the more we've explored it, the more there are

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Speaker 2: solutions and the more actions are being taken to reduce

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Speaker 2: methane emissions.

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Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to Zero. If you enjoyed this episode,

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Speaker 1: please take a moment to rate and review the show

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. You can email us at

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Speaker 1: zero pod at Bloomberg dot net. Zero's producer is me

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Speaker 1: Oscar Boyd and senior producer is Christine driscoll Our. Theme

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Speaker 1: music is composed by Wonderlee. Special thanks to Aaron Clark

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Speaker 1: and Kira Binjam for their help on this episode. We've

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Speaker 1: linked to some of Aaron's wonderful investigations into methane leakages

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Speaker 1: in the show notes. We'll be back with a regular

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Speaker 1: episode on Thursday,