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Speaker 1: Hey, welcome in. This is the All Ball Podcast and

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Speaker 1: I'm your host, Doug Gottlieb. Over the next thirty five

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Speaker 1: minutes or so, we're gonna get into the college basketball

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Speaker 1: scandal and what it means in the short term in

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Speaker 1: this season, and what it may mean in the long term.

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Speaker 1: But I wanted to start with what we have seen

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Speaker 1: in the NBA is a couple of different things sort

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Speaker 1: of to work through, And obviously it starts with the

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Speaker 1: some of the most prominent teams. I'm gonna start at

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Speaker 1: the bottom and then work my way up to the top,

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Speaker 1: the top being the Golden State Warriors will get to

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Speaker 1: the Lakers, will get to the Celtics as well. UM.

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Speaker 1: I think there's an interesting discussion to be had in

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Speaker 1: regards to the Houston Rockets, who as of this recording, uh,

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Speaker 1: they lost yet again last night and James Harden pulled

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Speaker 1: up gimpy with a hamstring. There's also the Rondo deal

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Speaker 1: with Rondo and CP three, who's the worst teammate, who's

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Speaker 1: the worst leader? But let me start with the bottom.

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Speaker 1: The Cleveland Cavaliers are off and what this will lead

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Speaker 1: many people to point to is how incredible Lebron James

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Speaker 1: is now. This is not a podcast dedicated to being

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Speaker 1: the Lebron hater. Um. I do think that there's a

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Speaker 1: deep dive into the fact that he did miss those

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Speaker 1: two free throws that could have won them the first

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Speaker 1: game of the year, going back when they lost to

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Speaker 1: the Spurs at home. But it's remember, the construct of

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Speaker 1: a team is very, very important, and what he's going

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Speaker 1: through now is this team is built differently. He's the

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Speaker 1: most important piece. He changes them completely, and I'm not

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Speaker 1: trying to take away or cast shade on his greatness,

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Speaker 1: but it's a team that's constructed to ultimately be one

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Speaker 1: where the ball moves and they're constantly an attack mode,

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Speaker 1: and their strength is in their depth, not in their

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Speaker 1: individual talents. And while there is some flaws to that,

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Speaker 1: this has become not just a pace in space but

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Speaker 1: a shotmakers league, and they just seem to lack the shotmakers,

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Speaker 1: although Josh Hart continues to make shot after shot. Um,

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Speaker 1: you look the Cleveland Cavaliers and people will say, and

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Speaker 1: probably rightfully so, they're awful. In the worst team in

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Speaker 1: the NBA discussion, this only proves that Lebron James is

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Speaker 1: in fact the greatest player in the history of the NBA.

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Speaker 1: What's really important to focus on is that while Lebron

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Speaker 1: is great, and the level of his sustained success really

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Speaker 1: has not been matched. You know, obviously it's hard to

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Speaker 1: quantify because a realist says, Michael Jordan played three years

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Speaker 1: in college, so and then of course in the in

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Speaker 1: the prime of his run when they won three titles,

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Speaker 1: he stepped away from basketball and then came back midway through.

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Speaker 1: So you can't go the consecutive finals appearances. And but

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Speaker 1: when Michael Jordan was right in his prime, they went

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Speaker 1: to the finals, and when they got to the finals,

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Speaker 1: they won. And while you can sit here and go

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Speaker 1: they didn't play some of the greatest teams of all

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Speaker 1: time in the finals, the fact is they did play

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Speaker 1: the best team in the West. And what they had

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Speaker 1: to go in the East is what Lebron James gonna

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Speaker 1: have to go through in the West. But again that's

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Speaker 1: getting caught up in something. What the secret to the

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Speaker 1: brilliance of Lebron is sustained success is sustained excellence. He

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Speaker 1: hasn't gotten hurt um and though he has missed games

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Speaker 1: up until last year, he hasn't missed long stretches due

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Speaker 1: to injury. Some of it's been mental fatigue, but the

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Speaker 1: ability to night in night out be lebron James be

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Speaker 1: if not the best, one of the two or three

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Speaker 1: best players in the league for fifteen straight years and

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Speaker 1: maybe one of the top five, you know, early on

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Speaker 1: in his career, and there have been years in which

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Speaker 1: he's been better than others. He's remarkable. But it's also

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Speaker 1: important to point out that this the flaw to that

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Speaker 1: team was that again last year, it wasn't nearly as good.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't believe me, I'd give you they

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Speaker 1: went to seven games with the Boston Celtics that didn't

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Speaker 1: have their two best players. And you can sit here

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Speaker 1: and tell me that Jayson Tatum ultimately may be better

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Speaker 1: than Gordon Hayward and some people Jason Datum may ultimately

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Speaker 1: better be better than Kyrie Irving. Some people believe that.

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Speaker 1: I don't yet, but I think he's tremendous. But just

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Speaker 1: look at last year. Jayson Tatum was a rookie and

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Speaker 1: he kind of became their go to guy. Right. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how, by hook or by crook how they

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Speaker 1: did it, you know, with Al Horford just being solid

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Speaker 1: and Scary Terry. Remember um Scary Terry was their fourth guard.

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Speaker 1: So so the fact that the Cavaliers needed seven games,

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Speaker 1: needed to go to the full series to beat the

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Speaker 1: Pacers needed seven games to be a depleted Celtics team.

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Speaker 1: That's not the same Calves team as the past. So

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Speaker 1: it's not like they were a dominant team and now

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden they're the worst team in the league.

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Speaker 1: They were a really good team in the East that

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Speaker 1: had Lebron James, the best player in the East, and

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Speaker 1: they were healthy come playoff time, and so they got

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Speaker 1: to the NBA Finals before they just got destroyed. But

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Speaker 1: the team was so high leveraged on Lebron that now

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Speaker 1: you take Kyrie and Lebron off that team and you're

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Speaker 1: left with, you know, Kevin Love sitting there going like, well,

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Speaker 1: I can put up numbers, but we're awful. So I

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Speaker 1: I just think the smart basketball fans should be really

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Speaker 1: should be bright enough to understand that some of this

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Speaker 1: is about construct of a team. It's like, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: the Warriors won seventy three before Katie got there, and

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Speaker 1: they didn't win as many games the next year, and

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Speaker 1: sure they won the NBA Finals but they could have

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Speaker 1: won it the year before. If you don't think the

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Speaker 1: Warriors were better with Kevin Durant than they were before,

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Speaker 1: and you need number of wins to tell you substantially better.

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Speaker 1: And and this kind of goes into play with the

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Speaker 1: fact that Steph Curry had fifty last night, made eleven

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Speaker 1: threes and didn't play in the fourth quarter. I mean,

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Speaker 1: the type of shooting is ridiculous. Um, Kevin Durant, by

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Speaker 1: the way, I had thirty on eighteen shots, and it

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Speaker 1: was kind of an effortless thirty. He's yet to really

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Speaker 1: find his rhythm as a three point shooter. Were as

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Speaker 1: steps shooting like fifty two pers and from three. It's

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Speaker 1: it's crazy with what's going on with Steph Curry right now.

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Speaker 1: The point is this, UM, I wouldn't go crazy about

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Speaker 1: being all in on Lebron's greatness because the Calves stink.

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Speaker 1: The Cavs weren't very good last year for a good

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Speaker 1: stretch of time when Lebron James was on the team

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Speaker 1: and they were highly leveraged based upon his ability and

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Speaker 1: frankly Kyrie Irving's ability, and when you when Kyrie Irving left,

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Speaker 1: it became a house of cards, and ultimately, obviously it

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Speaker 1: fell down when Lebron left, and so they're now in

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Speaker 1: and I don't I think they're in tank mode, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know even if they're yet to the point

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Speaker 1: where they're trying to lose. Like generally, teams don't decide

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Speaker 1: to tank until you get maybe a quarter to halfway

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Speaker 1: to the season. Last year in Memphis, once they lost

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Speaker 1: Mike Conley, they looked around and said, all right, let's

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Speaker 1: start tanking. It happened with the Dallas Mavericks once they

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Speaker 1: were you know they were they had all those injuries.

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Speaker 1: It was probably twenty games in and they were like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we thought we had a good team, let's

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Speaker 1: start tanking. Um. And I don't think the Atlanta Hawks

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Speaker 1: are are tanking in the purest form as they got

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Speaker 1: another win last night. I think ultimately they will, But

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Speaker 1: the Atlanta Hawks have just basically, hey, we're gonna play

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Speaker 1: our young guys. We're gonna live and die by these guys,

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Speaker 1: and and see what happens. You play and commit to

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Speaker 1: the youth, play a play a style that's fun and

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Speaker 1: fast and enjoyable, and then we'll see what happens. And

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Speaker 1: if we lose because we're playing young players. Fine, so

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Speaker 1: be it. But before you just go, hey, Lebron's incredible. Look,

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Speaker 1: he was the best team. They were the best team

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Speaker 1: in the East, and then they lost Lebron James and

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Speaker 1: now they can't win. It's a little bit more to

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Speaker 1: it than that they weren't actually the best team in

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Speaker 1: the East. They had mind control of the Toronto Raptors.

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Speaker 1: They got the Celtics without their two best players, and

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Speaker 1: they survived the Indiana Pacers. That's really the way I

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Speaker 1: look at it. And then they didn't have to match

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Speaker 1: up with the Philadelphia seventies Sixers, who somehow also lost

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Speaker 1: to the Boston Celtics. They match up with the Sixers

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Speaker 1: in any round. That's a tough matchup for that calf

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Speaker 1: team because they do have They did have the bodies

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Speaker 1: and the shooting two and and a big guy to

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Speaker 1: to end up beating the Calves, even if they didn't

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Speaker 1: have the experience to do so. Alright, so we started

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Speaker 1: at the bottom of the Calves. I also want to

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Speaker 1: point out that I watched the Phoenix Suns and they're horrendous.

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Speaker 1: They're averaging I think given up over a hundred and

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Speaker 1: thirty points like, they're so awful. They're so awful. Remember

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Speaker 1: they drafted Josh Jackson a couple of years ago from Kansas,

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Speaker 1: and the idea was, Josh Jackson is not a great player,

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Speaker 1: but he has great core values and he's a culture changer,

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Speaker 1: and yeah, how that work. Now they bring in Trevor Ariza, who,

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Speaker 1: though he couldn't make a shot for the Houston Rockets

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Speaker 1: in the playoffs against the Golden State Warriors, is a

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Speaker 1: three and D guy who suddenly now he doesn't or

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Speaker 1: can't guard anybody. Heck, they still have Tyson Chandler on

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Speaker 1: that team. And the idea of Tyson Chandler is like,

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Speaker 1: here's the guy who defends the him. He can teach

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Speaker 1: DeAndre Ayton and there's no commitment to defense at all.

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Speaker 1: They're just out there playing. It reminds me a lot

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Speaker 1: of you guys are who fans are old enough to

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Speaker 1: remember this. Um, college basketball, Now you can play against

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Speaker 1: n A schools, D three and D two in exhibition games.

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Speaker 1: You used to be able to play against your organizations

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Speaker 1: and before the and this is in the traditional marathon,

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Speaker 1: oil and and and other. Uh, let's see, um, what's

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Speaker 1: the Christian organization the UH. I can't remember what it's called. Anyway.

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Speaker 1: The point is that I played in a couple of

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Speaker 1: these teams. I played in Athletes first, that travel around

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Speaker 1: I played my my dad had a team. I played

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Speaker 1: on the e A Sports team, which is was run

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Speaker 1: by the Pump brothers. And those games were fun. I

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Speaker 1: mean they were fun. We I played at Carolina where

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Speaker 1: we were up at the half. We beat U c

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Speaker 1: l A. At the time my dad's organization. We handed

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Speaker 1: us their worst home loss in the history of Polly Pavilion.

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Speaker 1: We beat San Diego State, in Wichita State and Marshall

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Speaker 1: and we got handled by Oklahoma State. We went back

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Speaker 1: there and we we played all these great play of

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Speaker 1: Texas Tech and it was really it was a ton

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Speaker 1: of fun um. But there was really no repercussions. Right

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Speaker 1: Like my dad when he coached those things, he would

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Speaker 1: make you play defense or he take you out, but

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Speaker 1: generally there's not the pressure of all that goes with

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Speaker 1: practice and being with the team and being benched. You

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Speaker 1: only have you know, eight guys, so you're gonna play

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Speaker 1: through injury, but you're also gonna take some shots and

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Speaker 1: you have you have a little less conscience, so guys

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Speaker 1: are playing free and easy. That's how the Suns are playing.

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Speaker 1: They're playing as if they're an exhibition team. As long

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Speaker 1: as everybody gets their stats, whether they get a win

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Speaker 1: or don't get a win, it doesn't matter. It is embarrassing.

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Speaker 1: It is what an embarrassing organization, and one that, by

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Speaker 1: the way, has some young talent, but just going up

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Speaker 1: and down and giving up. I mean, they give up

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Speaker 1: seventy six to the Lakers in the first half last night.

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Speaker 1: And so I want to sit here and tell you

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Speaker 1: that Lonzo Ball seems to have crossed over the threshold

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Speaker 1: of becoming a damn good NBA player. And I think

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Speaker 1: he has the last game and a half, the second

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Speaker 1: half of the of the Spurs game, he looked really,

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Speaker 1: really good. I want to tell you he's crossed over

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Speaker 1: the threshold. The problem is that it's he looked good

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Speaker 1: last year against the Suns, and everybody looked good last night.

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Speaker 1: But I do think this is kind of working our

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Speaker 1: way up the food chain. I do think that the

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Speaker 1: Lakers I have found something with Alonzo as their starting

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Speaker 1: point guard because he plays well alongside Lebron he and

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Speaker 1: and the flaws that he had last year, where he

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Speaker 1: got rid of kind of hot potato the ball too

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Speaker 1: quickly that works with Lebron, like throw it up to him,

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Speaker 1: let Lebron make a play, throw it up to other guys,

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Speaker 1: and the need for him to break people down and

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Speaker 1: make plays up in Layton shot clock like other teams

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Speaker 1: need their point guard to do. He doesn't need to do.

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Speaker 1: And though he still fires up one scud a game,

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Speaker 1: like there's one shot a game in which he shoots

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Speaker 1: an air ball and he misses by four or five ft,

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Speaker 1: but he's making enough of him and he's making any

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Speaker 1: percent of his free and he's decent enough defensively, and

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Speaker 1: he's a pretty good rebounder, and he's become more athletic,

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Speaker 1: And I gotta say I think it's working now. I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm shaded by the fact that he played against the Spurs,

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Speaker 1: who don't have great athleticism in their back word, they

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Speaker 1: don't really have a true point guard to kind of

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Speaker 1: break him down. And they played against the the Sons,

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Speaker 1: who don't play any defense. But I'm cautiously optimistic, cautiously

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Speaker 1: optimistic about what Lonzo Ball can do. As for Lebron,

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Speaker 1: I still think he's struggling playing with his pace. And

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Speaker 1: then last night they went to something against the Suns

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Speaker 1: which looked like the old Lebron offense where they were

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Speaker 1: having Whoever, their weakest link was defensively for the son's

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Speaker 1: ball screen onto Lebron. So Lebron can get a mismatch,

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Speaker 1: he go one on one, find the open shooter and

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Speaker 1: just play off his penetration. So as much as they

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Speaker 1: wanted to move the ball and share the ball and

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Speaker 1: play faster, end of the day, we see the um.

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Speaker 1: We see the kind of default setting that Lebron has

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Speaker 1: and that Luke Walton is going to at some point

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Speaker 1: wave the white flag to he. Does he want to

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Speaker 1: play motion and move that ball much like the Warriors do? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Does he want to play fast? Sure, but you play

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Speaker 1: too fast, You're gonna play too fast for your thirty

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Speaker 1: four year old point power forward and you're gonna ruin

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Speaker 1: all the great parts of his game. Alright. A couple

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Speaker 1: of other things in regards to the n b A.

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Speaker 1: I did notice that James Harden pulled up gimpy with

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Speaker 1: the hamstring, and though it's just a hamstring and hardened

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Speaker 1: among all the things and some of the nightclub stuff

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Speaker 1: that he loves and you know his jersey being retired

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Speaker 1: to strip club. Harden hasn't this substantial amount of time.

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Speaker 1: But but there is this thought with the Rockets in

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Speaker 1: and how how long can everything go right? You know

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Speaker 1: Kameno Anthony got hurt a bunch and had to be

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Speaker 1: shut down with the Knicks. Of course, Chris Paul has

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Speaker 1: made a career out of getting hurted in opportune times.

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Speaker 1: And and then there's James Harden, now a hamstring is

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Speaker 1: he in the type of shape that he was in

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Speaker 1: last year when he wanted to make it a point

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Speaker 1: to win the m v P and he did win

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Speaker 1: that m v P. I have my reservations about the Rockets,

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Speaker 1: not that they won't have talent, and not that they

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Speaker 1: can't figure out how to compete night in, night out.

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Speaker 1: I think they'll be more consistent, but the idea of

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Speaker 1: staying healthy, and then what do you do with mellow

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Speaker 1: in big situations? He may say right now he's okay

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Speaker 1: with based upon matchups playing, but that dude's a starter.

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Speaker 1: He considers himself a star and no matter how much

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Speaker 1: he makes, he's gonna want to be there at the

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Speaker 1: end of games. I don't know if that thing works.

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Speaker 1: A matter of fact, I've I've been betting on it

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Speaker 1: not working. The only thing going in my going against

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Speaker 1: my favor is the fact that Oklahoma City is not

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Speaker 1: healthy yet and hasn't been clicking yet, and so I

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Speaker 1: thought Oklahoma City might be better than there. And then

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Speaker 1: you got Golden State, which it's really interesting on how

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Speaker 1: little people are paying attention because Steph has been amazing,

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Speaker 1: maybe eleven threes amazing, Kevin ray has been very good,

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Speaker 1: although he's not hitting his three yet. And then there's

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Speaker 1: Draymond Green. Look, they gotta figure out when DeMarcus Cousins

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Speaker 1: comes back how to play with him. But Draymond Green

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Speaker 1: cannot make a shot, can't make a shot at all.

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Speaker 1: And um, whether it's his shoulder or his knee or

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Speaker 1: his confidence. Don't get me wrong, Draymond is Draymond for

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Speaker 1: what he does on the defensive end, guarding all five positions.

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Speaker 1: But it's hard to play four on five even with

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Speaker 1: those type of shot It's a shotmakers league, and they

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Speaker 1: have three of the five best shot makers in the league.

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Speaker 1: It's it's hard to guard them even when you're playing

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Speaker 1: four on five. They're playing four on five with those

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Speaker 1: three guys, but it makes it easier. It makes it easier.

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Speaker 1: And then you have Blake Griffin, who he scores fifty

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Speaker 1: for the Pistons. And it's not that the Pistons are great,

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Speaker 1: but they're pretty good. And that move, considering what they

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Speaker 1: gave up and how hard is the land of free agent,

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Speaker 1: that thing might work. After all they did. Obviously, they

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Speaker 1: made a coaching change, and they went out and got

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Speaker 1: a guy who's shown as the ability to win in

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Speaker 1: the regular season in the Eastern Conference and no Lebron there. Somehow, somehow,

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Speaker 1: this does give credence to some of the Chris Paul stuff.

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Speaker 1: I view Chris Paul as more difficult to play with

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Speaker 1: than a bad teammate, whereas Rondo duty quit on his

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Speaker 1: team in Dallas, there weren't warm and fuzzies for him.

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Speaker 1: When they want a championship in Boston, it is competitive

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Speaker 1: jealousy that Chris Paul wants what Rondo has the championship bring,

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Speaker 1: and Rondo wants to respect and everybody wants to be

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Speaker 1: liked like Chris Paul is. But I'm not taking this

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Speaker 1: from a player that played with him his perspective or

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Speaker 1: a coach who coached him, and definitely not from a

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Speaker 1: fan's perspective. I can only react to what the league

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Speaker 1: tells me. And one guy's on a one year, nine

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Speaker 1: million dollar contract to be a backup because I think

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Speaker 1: Alonzo's beating the mountain now he's even suspended, and one

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Speaker 1: guy is gonna make forties some million dollars. It tells

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Speaker 1: you what the league thinks of Chris Paul as opposed

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Speaker 1: to the gen Rondo um. But I you know, Golden

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Speaker 1: State is interesting. They've only lost one game, and watching

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Speaker 1: staff you make that many threes, nobody's gonna beat you.

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Speaker 1: They still have three big shot makers. But how they

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Speaker 1: play when Cousins comes back to they play a big

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Speaker 1: guy in the fourth quarter and Ken Draymond Green recapture

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Speaker 1: some form of his jump shot because he's had nights

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Speaker 1: where he wants no part of looking at it. We'll

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Speaker 1: come back to the NBA in a second. Let's dive

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Speaker 1: in with a guy who I respect and has written

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Speaker 1: for a long time for the Sporting News. You can

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Speaker 1: see him on Beat the End, the Big Ten network

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Speaker 1: covering college basketball. Mike Decorsi joins us here in the

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Speaker 1: All Ball Podcast, and Mica now that the the first

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Speaker 1: group of defendants have been found guilty, and statements have

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Speaker 1: been made, and of course you know about Kansas statements

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Speaker 1: saying that Bill self wants to wants to run a

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Speaker 1: program that's under compliance. Like, what what do you take

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Speaker 1: from now we're like a day removed from the ruling?

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Speaker 1: What what what do you think happens? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: my take on this is different than just about every

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Speaker 1: other journalist or commentator that I've seen. And you know,

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Speaker 1: I look at things not from you know, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a vigilante. That's not my job, you know, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I don't see. My job is, I believe, is to

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Speaker 1: refer to what the reality of the circumstances and to

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Speaker 1: explain what I think will happen. And what I think

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Speaker 1: will happen is that the n C double A when

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Speaker 1: it comes to Kansas is going to have a very

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Speaker 1: difficult approach because the University of Kansas now has or

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Speaker 1: will have soon in its hands a document from a

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Speaker 1: federal court that says it was a victim in a

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Speaker 1: in a fraud, and that and and there are and

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Speaker 1: there are pages in that in that in that document,

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Speaker 1: that in which the star witness whose testimony led to

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Speaker 1: that conviction or helped lead to that conviction. The testimony

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Speaker 1: that says that their coach, Bill self did not know

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Speaker 1: of any of what happened. And so how does the

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Speaker 1: double A then go and say to Kansas, you are

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Speaker 1: both the victim and the perpetrator. I don't know that

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Speaker 1: they can do that. And I know that if Kansas

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Speaker 1: wants to and and everything that they everything that they've

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Speaker 1: every every move they've made, every word they've said since

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Speaker 1: they were first since they first appeared in the superseding

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Speaker 1: indictment against Jim gato Um, everything that they've done suggests

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Speaker 1: that they like the idea of being the victim in this.

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Speaker 1: If if they're gonna be involved, that that's the place

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Speaker 1: that they want to be. And so I would say

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Speaker 1: that that if if the n C Double A comes

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Speaker 1: around and tries to make a big case of this,

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Speaker 1: I would think that k you would say you better

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Speaker 1: be careful because I got a document that says I'm

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Speaker 1: a victim, and you know, and this could end up

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Speaker 1: in the court of law. I think the the one

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned about is Curtis Townsend if I was Kansas,

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Speaker 1: because he's on the tape and because he's talking about

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Speaker 1: getting things done. Now there is no it didn't and

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Speaker 1: I don't know every word as I didn't study it

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Speaker 1: maybe as closely as you have, but everything that I've

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Speaker 1: seen released there is no set amount, like, hey, what

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Speaker 1: is the dollar amount? Let's do it right. It's more

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Speaker 1: of uh, you know, we'll do what it takes, will

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Speaker 1: get it done. And I think we all assume that

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Speaker 1: he was on some level uh in on what Adidas

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Speaker 1: was doing, even if he did not do it himself.

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Speaker 1: Even there's there is no he arranged for payments himself.

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Speaker 1: But when I when I read the statement that Kansas

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Speaker 1: and Bill self want to operate a program that's that

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Speaker 1: that under compliance. It means that they can sit there

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Speaker 1: and go like, look, Bill self didn't break any rules,

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Speaker 1: but Curtis Townsend may have. We generally run a clean program,

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Speaker 1: and maybe we throw Curtis Townsend, a long tenured assistant,

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Speaker 1: under the bus. That would be my my read even

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Speaker 1: if you are and by the way, I think your

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Speaker 1: take is fascinating because um, it's it's it's it's really smart.

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Speaker 1: It's hey that they and the prosecutor even said that,

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Speaker 1: which was I think a statement that's being maybe misinterpreted

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Speaker 1: where they're saying, well, if if if if Kansas or

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Speaker 1: any of these programs knew these players were being paid

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Speaker 1: this money, well then they wouldn't have offered him a scholarship.

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Speaker 1: I think the what the prosecutors trying to say is

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Speaker 1: they would be ineligible, or if they knew they were

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Speaker 1: on the take, they you know, or if they knew

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Speaker 1: that everybody else was going to know they were on

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Speaker 1: the take, then they couldn't possibly offer him a scholarship.

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Speaker 1: But what do you think about Townsend as being the

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Speaker 1: guy that they'll throw under the bus? Well, I think

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Speaker 1: that I think that Curtis certainly will have to explain

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Speaker 1: some of the language on on that that was caught

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Speaker 1: on wire tap. But there are a couple of things

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Speaker 1: in his favor even in that, and one of them

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Speaker 1: is that there was, you know, there was just a

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Speaker 1: general um at first if you even read it, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's this concern about um about the requests

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Speaker 1: that were made of him. Now it's not clear whether

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Speaker 1: that request was that he was a gas that having

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Speaker 1: been at having asked to break rules, or if he

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Speaker 1: was concerned about whether or not he could fulfill that UM.

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Speaker 1: So there's that, and then there's the fact that the

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Speaker 1: player in question did not become a Jayhawk, and so

429
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:18,040
Speaker 1: that that certainly helps him because even if even if

430
00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,320
Speaker 1: he talked about the possibility of breaking rules, unless someone

431
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 1: comes forward and says that this particular player was offered

432
00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:33,000
Speaker 1: something by Kansas, then there's really nothing necessarily to to

433
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:38,960
Speaker 1: to verify it. And in again, in Kansas is um

434
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,800
Speaker 1: in Kansas Is favor or in Curtis's favor, Because these

435
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:49,440
Speaker 1: investigations can't apparently take place until after these trials are over.

436
00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: The n C Double A has indicated that they're not

437
00:22:51,880 --> 00:22:55,000
Speaker 1: going to do anything until the trials are over, which

438
00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:58,000
Speaker 1: appears to have been a request from the Justice Department.

439
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,879
Speaker 1: The player in question will no longer be an n

440
00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:02,960
Speaker 1: C Double A athlete by the time that's all over.

441
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,080
Speaker 1: I mean, we we know very well that he will

442
00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:08,959
Speaker 1: be in the NBA Draft, and so he may just

443
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:12,200
Speaker 1: choose not to cooperate. And so there's there's a lot

444
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,919
Speaker 1: of ways that this could even go. Well, you know

445
00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,199
Speaker 1: that there are things that could happen that could favor

446
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:21,800
Speaker 1: Curtis not becoming uh, you know, not becoming fodder in

447
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 1: in this circumstance, that those are those are ways that

448
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,719
Speaker 1: it could turn out well for him. And you know,

449
00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 1: and he may say that also. I mean I've talked

450
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: to different coaches and scouts and that sort of thing.

451
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: Who will say Sometimes guys who are in this circumstance

452
00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:41,000
Speaker 1: will will you know, will will talk like this so

453
00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: that they can keep a conversation going and then when

454
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,719
Speaker 1: it comes down to the end, you know, they're hopeful

455
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,000
Speaker 1: that they can get it over the goal line without

456
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 1: having broken any rules, even if they have conversations like

457
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 1: this along the way. Those are all things that he

458
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,600
Speaker 1: could say in his defense and and and he could

459
00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:04,240
Speaker 1: then therefore retain his position. Yeah, if the here's here's

460
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:06,920
Speaker 1: one thing, and I think you know this, I feel

461
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,680
Speaker 1: like um, college basketball recruiting and some of these things

462
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,600
Speaker 1: that are caught on tape. And I don't doubt that

463
00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: some of the money that was delivered is in fact real,

464
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:17,639
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't doubt that, but I will point

465
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: out that there's a little bit of of of you know,

466
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: guy one oh one, right, Like you ask a guy

467
00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 1: how many women he's been with in his life, he's

468
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 1: probably going to multiply that number. You know. It's or

469
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:31,040
Speaker 1: when you put for and and for all the basketball guys.

470
00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: This is like how much did you make playing overseas? Oh?

471
00:24:34,280 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 1: I made five hundred? Like dudes, stop it right, um,

472
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: guys make guys make a quarter of a guy's contract

473
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 1: is for a quarter of what they say it's going

474
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: to be, and sometimes you don't even get all of

475
00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:47,959
Speaker 1: that money. So the the braggadocious, Hey, you know we're

476
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,720
Speaker 1: gonna we're gonna put you know he wants you know,

477
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 1: he kid wants this, he wants that is like great, Um.

478
00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: But what I found is like I remember, I remember

479
00:24:57,359 --> 00:25:00,720
Speaker 1: when I was at abc D camp in Ypsilani, Michigan.

480
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:05,160
Speaker 1: Uh Antoine Antoine Walker out of Chicago would come over

481
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,240
Speaker 1: and shoot dice with Ricky Price and those two were

482
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: two of the most incredible trash talkers. And Gilanni Gardener

483
00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:14,400
Speaker 1: would come over and Gilanni was saying like, hey, Arizona

484
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,520
Speaker 1: State is offering this, and KL is offering this. Now

485
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: Cal did in fact offer him and pay him money,

486
00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,639
Speaker 1: but it was in comparison, like compared to what they

487
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:23,360
Speaker 1: were talking about. I think it was like thirty thou

488
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,000
Speaker 1: dollars was what ultimately brought Cow's program down. Like at

489
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:28,879
Speaker 1: the time, they were like, yeah, it's me fifty or

490
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 1: seventy five, even get me to visit. And maybe those

491
00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,120
Speaker 1: guys were getting getting paid at the time, or maybe

492
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:38,320
Speaker 1: they were just seventeen year old kids throwing out numbers

493
00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,159
Speaker 1: knowing that it wasn't really really the case. All right,

494
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:43,680
Speaker 1: here's here's the here's the point where you go on, Doug,

495
00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:45,560
Speaker 1: let me, let me, let me address that, because it's

496
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,120
Speaker 1: one of the most fascinating things. Michael Sokolov, who uh

497
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:52,960
Speaker 1: did did attend some of the trial, is a writer

498
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: for New York Times magazine and he's an author as well,

499
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,359
Speaker 1: and he wrote a book that's out now called The

500
00:25:58,440 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: Last Temptation of Rick, you know, and it's about the case.

501
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: And he talked to Rick and Tom Jurish, the former

502
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,800
Speaker 1: a d and had pretty good access to these to

503
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: those men and too in some of the Bowens, I believe,

504
00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,200
Speaker 1: and one of the fascinating to me, the most fascinating

505
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: thing in the entire book was the fact that initially

506
00:26:18,119 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: the deal was supposed to be for six figures and

507
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:26,399
Speaker 1: apparently the only money that the Bowens ever got in

508
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: all of this, according to the book, was money that

509
00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: was fronted by an FBI and their cover FBI agent.

510
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,919
Speaker 1: They couldn't get any money out of Adidas because they

511
00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: all the requests kept getting kicked back. And so to me,

512
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 1: it's it's it's sort of goes right along with that

513
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: idea that you know we had. There was so much

514
00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 1: talked about regarding money and all this money that supposedly

515
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,720
Speaker 1: was flying around, but when they had an alleged deal

516
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:56,399
Speaker 1: in place to get Bow into Louisville for a hundred

517
00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, they couldn't come up with any money to

518
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 1: pay them. And I find that to be, you know,

519
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:06,440
Speaker 1: the most fascinating element of the entire uh circumstance. This

520
00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:09,120
Speaker 1: this whole show that you know, there's supposedly so much

521
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:11,920
Speaker 1: money being trucked around, but when they came to try

522
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 1: to get the money to one of the top prospects

523
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:20,680
Speaker 1: in class or class excuse me, um, they couldn't find

524
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: any That is uh. I mean that that's amazing to me. Right,

525
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:28,919
Speaker 1: It's like the everybody this is the this is the

526
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,000
Speaker 1: classic thing in college basketball, right where everybody says they're

527
00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,720
Speaker 1: getting paid, except I didn't get paid, you know, and

528
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: that the truth is that I paid it. I played

529
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,560
Speaker 1: it to major college programs. I never saw it. I

530
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: never saw it. I swear to you, I never saw it,

531
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,600
Speaker 1: not Notre Dame. I do think is is beyond reproach.

532
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,920
Speaker 1: And I was there during there. There was some stuff

533
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: that went on during a football but even that wasn't

534
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,280
Speaker 1: about you know, paying players. Um. And when I was

535
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:56,639
Speaker 1: at Oklahoma State in basketball, of course, I played pretty

536
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,360
Speaker 1: Sutton and he was he was. He was the head

537
00:27:59,359 --> 00:28:02,679
Speaker 1: coach of the staff that brought down Kentucky basketball. I

538
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,919
Speaker 1: can tell you I like I never saw it, but

539
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,639
Speaker 1: I always heard. I've always heard rumors, and like you know,

540
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:10,239
Speaker 1: you've been around enough. I've been around enough. Do I

541
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: think there are kids that have their hands out, Yes.

542
00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 1: Do I think sometimes those kids get money put in it? Yes?

543
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 1: But do I think it's the school? Do I think

544
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,199
Speaker 1: it's the schools themselves? I don't. I do understand this

545
00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: idea that Adidas and probably Nike and under Armour want

546
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 1: kids to go to their programs because they're totally invested

547
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: in those programs for years to come, and it looks

548
00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:36,400
Speaker 1: better when those programs are winning. Sure, that's a that's

549
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 1: an easy correlation to make, But I honestly think that

550
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 1: this is more of the exception than the rule. Am I.

551
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be Mikesachevski and say I don't

552
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,800
Speaker 1: think it happens, I know anything about it, especially when

553
00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: you just had Marvin Bagley. But am I crazy to

554
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,800
Speaker 1: say that though this is eye opening, some of the

555
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 1: things that were mentioned and talked about and recorded, I

556
00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,320
Speaker 1: think a lot of it UH is a little bit

557
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:04,080
Speaker 1: nonsensical and happens far more seldom than the public thinks,

558
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: you know. I I think that when when this first

559
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: came out, there was an assumption and that I never

560
00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:15,880
Speaker 1: considered to be fair that, well, if Adidas is doing this,

561
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 1: or someone out of datas I should say, is doing this,

562
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: then clearly the other companies are doing it. And I

563
00:29:21,720 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 1: don't agree with that at all. I Mean my position was,

564
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 1: you know, if you're in first place, you don't necessarily

565
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:30,320
Speaker 1: you know, you could just turn around and chuck let

566
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,640
Speaker 1: the guys trying to catch up to you. And so

567
00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,320
Speaker 1: I never thought that was a fair a fair assertion,

568
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:38,680
Speaker 1: and I have not seen any evidence to suggest that

569
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:45,200
Speaker 1: that's true. Uh. There's no question that Nike wants UH

570
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: players to go to their schools, and they have many

571
00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:52,800
Speaker 1: of them from Kentucky to Duke to wherever else. I mean,

572
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: there's no question that Nike wants great players at their

573
00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,920
Speaker 1: show piece schools, just as you know, as as any

574
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,880
Speaker 1: company would want, you know, it's product to be well displayed.

575
00:30:04,320 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: But I don't think that necessarily that automatically means that

576
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 1: they would be willing to do these sorts of things,

577
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,120
Speaker 1: or or that executives that their companies would be willing

578
00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 1: to do these sorts of things. If someone has evidence

579
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,239
Speaker 1: of that, that would be a different manner. But I've

580
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 1: not seen anything to suggest that. And so you know,

581
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,760
Speaker 1: I think that there's no question that there is there

582
00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: is rule breaking in college athletics. Uh. And and and

583
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 1: that someone that would constitute buying players, which you know,

584
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,640
Speaker 1: to me is the you know that an academic fraud

585
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: or the two things in college And what I always

586
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 1: have said, um about college athletics is that you know

587
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 1: that and and this probably isn't necessarily as true now

588
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: as it was twenty years ago, because you don't have

589
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: to go outside the rules to take care of your players.

590
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,160
Speaker 1: You can do so much for them, uh that you

591
00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 1: know that's within the rules now from cost of attendance

592
00:30:58,320 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 1: payments to the you know, to the uh, the all

593
00:31:01,640 --> 00:31:04,960
Speaker 1: you can eat all day buffet that is that is

594
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 1: a college athletic department. I always felt that, you know,

595
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: most schools take care of their players and then there

596
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 1: are the ones that go rogue and buy them. Um.

597
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 1: But I, like I said, I'm not even sure that

598
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,640
Speaker 1: the ones that take care of their players have to

599
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: break the rules now to do that. Yeah, I'll give

600
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,360
Speaker 1: you an example. Okay, So I was that I was

601
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: in an A. C. C school UM and I went

602
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: through the facility, which is you know, all these facilities

603
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:34,480
Speaker 1: now are incredible, right from not just the practice gyms

604
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 1: in the arenas, but also they have hangout rooms so

605
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 1: the kids can come and they just that's where that's

606
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 1: like it's like the fraternity house. And they're also all

607
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: building where they can come in and eat whatever they want,

608
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,040
Speaker 1: whenever they want. And so they pocket the meal money,

609
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,240
Speaker 1: like they dial back. They don't have meal plans that

610
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:54,200
Speaker 1: they have very very limited meal plans, but they get

611
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:57,160
Speaker 1: to keep the meal money. So you add on that

612
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: the cost of attendance. There's some stuff that we used

613
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:01,880
Speaker 1: to do that was legal, you know with summer school

614
00:32:01,920 --> 00:32:04,680
Speaker 1: where and again at very school to school. But for example,

615
00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,560
Speaker 1: when I was at Oklahoma State UM and for a

616
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 1: period of time afterwards, I don't know if this is

617
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: still the case. You you're the amount you got per

618
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 1: summer session was based upon the number of credits you

619
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: signed up for, So you'd sign up for like a

620
00:32:18,360 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 1: full boat of classes, you know, eighteen eighteen hours or something,

621
00:32:22,560 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 1: and then whatever was hard, you just dropped. Anyway, you

622
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,600
Speaker 1: end up keeping the money, and you took six hours

623
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:30,479
Speaker 1: and you got two a's, and you also worked your

624
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,160
Speaker 1: coaches camp, So you've got two hundred fifty dollars there.

625
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:35,600
Speaker 1: You know, you get a thousand dollars, you know for

626
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 1: for meal money that you don't need. Um. You know,

627
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: so between per diem, meal money, cost of attendance. Like

628
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,680
Speaker 1: this whole Hungry Huskies deal is kind of a joke,

629
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,280
Speaker 1: and I think we're all kind of in on it.

630
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: And I just I find that so many people, uh

631
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: look at these stories and think the these poor kids,

632
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,920
Speaker 1: when they don't realize how much guys get, how value

633
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: they are, even if they're not playing, they're still treated

634
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: as a as a class above the common citizen. And

635
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: you know, some would say rightfully so and you know,

636
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: I think that they're putting an incredible position to succeed

637
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: in life, not just in basketball. And in our search

638
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,320
Speaker 1: for the perfect system, we may end up screwing up

639
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: a really, really good system. I agree with you. You know,

640
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: I've watched a lot of young people go through college athletics.

641
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 1: I've been doing this for thirty six years, and and

642
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 1: everybody's experience is not positive, and everybody's outcome is not wonderful.

643
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: But that's true of of of whether you know, you

644
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 1: check with every law student who goes to law school.

645
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:43,200
Speaker 1: Not everyone turns out wonder you know it, having enjoyed

646
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 1: going to law school. Not everyone who gets to be

647
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: a lawyer wants to stay one. Uh not everyone who

648
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: wants to stay one gets the job that he or

649
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: she wants. But we're not, you know, we're not saying

650
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: what's closed out all the law schools because it doesn't

651
00:33:56,280 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 1: work ad for every single student. I really believe in

652
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,120
Speaker 1: in the way college athletics works. So I don't I

653
00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:07,360
Speaker 1: make no apologies for that at all. And now I've

654
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:10,800
Speaker 1: always been endeavoring to try to, you know, give ideas

655
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 1: on how to make it better. And sometimes I've been

656
00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,240
Speaker 1: behind the curve on that, and sometimes I've been ahead,

657
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: but I believe that college athletics is a positive experience

658
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: for the vast majority of the young men and women

659
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:28,319
Speaker 1: who go through it. And and and as I said,

660
00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: I uh, you know, I've got lots of anecdotal evidence

661
00:34:32,040 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: of that from the people that I've covered and who

662
00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 1: have had good experiences and success in life. And you

663
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 1: know again that they're They're not everyone who goes through

664
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 1: is happy with what you know, with how they were coached,

665
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,600
Speaker 1: or how they were used, or the education they got

666
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,560
Speaker 1: or whatever. But I can tell you that of the

667
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:53,320
Speaker 1: people that I've stayed in touch with who I did cover,

668
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:58,399
Speaker 1: that most of them, the vast majority, again, we're very

669
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: happy with how it all turned out. Yeah, I I

670
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:03,720
Speaker 1: read that. I saw that, read that Darius Miles piece

671
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,759
Speaker 1: from the Players Tribune, and I know we got into

672
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:09,480
Speaker 1: a little bit of a Twitter back and forth with

673
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,280
Speaker 1: others with guys like David Thorpe, and and I'm sitting

674
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 1: there going like, don't don't we see this is a

675
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 1: Steve Kerr wrote a piece about it. This is going

676
00:35:18,719 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: back to when he was a broadcaster, having been having

677
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: been a general manager, about how he thinks guys should

678
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,000
Speaker 1: stay in school even longer, for two years or maybe

679
00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: even longer. And the idea is, like you just you're

680
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,400
Speaker 1: just not ready. Um, you know, you don't forget about

681
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 1: knowing how to manage your time as an athlete, and

682
00:35:35,480 --> 00:35:39,440
Speaker 1: you know, manage all the hangers, honors and whatever. You're

683
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: not able to manage a checkbook. And one of the

684
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: things that you among the things that you learned in colleges,

685
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 1: when you get that small scholarship check, you gotta make

686
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: a work for a month. You know, you gotta make

687
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: it work. And then at the end of the month

688
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 1: you're running a little light. You know you can't you know,

689
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:53,839
Speaker 1: if you don't have a mom or dad to call

690
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 1: and ask for help, you're just gonna have to find

691
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: a way to make do. And I think it's a

692
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 1: really good, healthy time, healthy experience. It's kind of yours.

693
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:04,080
Speaker 1: It's people always say, well, it's a job. Well, it's

694
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,160
Speaker 1: a job, but it can't be fired from it. It's

695
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 1: a job, but your benefits aren't taxed. And it's a

696
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 1: job that, um, you can always come back to if

697
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 1: you leave. Based upon and again you talked about the

698
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 1: rules evolution kind of I think that's a great one,

699
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,040
Speaker 1: that he's you can come back and beyond scholarship basically

700
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:20,360
Speaker 1: any time, which you look at the end of the

701
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:23,400
Speaker 1: piece where Darius Miles his mom died and he didn't

702
00:36:23,440 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: leave his house for a year, and he's destitute and

703
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: he packs up a U haul and moves down with

704
00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:32,920
Speaker 1: Quentin Richardson, And I don't know how self sufficient he

705
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,640
Speaker 1: is financially. Like again, if he had he had gone

706
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,240
Speaker 1: to school for a year, and I think they should

707
00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:39,120
Speaker 1: go to school for long, but for a year, he

708
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,880
Speaker 1: could have re enrolled, been put on the staff, and

709
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: been given a kind of a second chance that's staying

710
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: around basketball, Whereas now he's kind of out of the

711
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: circle of basketball. He just is, and he's too young

712
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,960
Speaker 1: and he was too gifted for his basketball to chew

713
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,000
Speaker 1: him up and spit him out. But he did because

714
00:36:55,200 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: that was the system at the time, and it's a

715
00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 1: system by the way that we're reverting to. Yeah, And

716
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,319
Speaker 1: I'm very disappointed in the NBA's approach to this, And

717
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 1: I understand that that Mark Emmard, whose position on on

718
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 1: the age limit rule has been horrifically wrong from the

719
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: day he took the job. I understand that he uh

720
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: sort of basically figuratively browbeat the NBA into giving up

721
00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: on the age limit rule. But I still if I

722
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,480
Speaker 1: still believe that Adam Silver should have said, Look, this

723
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:32,560
Speaker 1: is the best approach for us. This is the approach

724
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: that works really well for us. And I don't know

725
00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: why you don't like it. You've never given me a

726
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:42,279
Speaker 1: good justification for it. Because Mark Emmett has no good

727
00:37:42,320 --> 00:37:45,239
Speaker 1: justification for it, and so we're gonna stick with it.

728
00:37:45,280 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: That's what he should have said, because it works for

729
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: the NBA. It's worked fabulously. I did a piece last

730
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,680
Speaker 1: February around the All Star Game because I wanted it

731
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: to appear because I knew Silver would be asked about

732
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,360
Speaker 1: it there. This was when when the Rice Commission was

733
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: still in process, before they came out with their with

734
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,279
Speaker 1: their rulings and that sort of thing, and and I

735
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:12,920
Speaker 1: in it, I documented all these different circums, all these

736
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:17,879
Speaker 1: different statistics that indicate how successful the the age limit rule,

737
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 1: the one and done concept has been for the NBA.

738
00:38:20,640 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: How much, how much more often the players succeed, how

739
00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:27,279
Speaker 1: much more often they become stars? Uh, you know, how much?

740
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: How cow many more playoff games? They've appeared, and all

741
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 1: sorts of things like that, but the best uh boiling

742
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:39,799
Speaker 1: down of that of that assistance to the NBA. Now,

743
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 1: this is not a direct correlation, but it's not a

744
00:38:41,960 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 1: coincidence either. In nine, excuse me a two thousand and

745
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,799
Speaker 1: six when when the age limit rule was just being

746
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:51,719
Speaker 1: launched before there had been a draft with the one

747
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:54,040
Speaker 1: and done players in it. In two thousand and six

748
00:38:54,080 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 1: the New York there were five hundred and ninety million

749
00:38:56,719 --> 00:39:01,320
Speaker 1: dollars and now they are worth three point three billion dollars.

750
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:04,919
Speaker 1: That kind of growth, it's not coincidental when you have

751
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,239
Speaker 1: all these great players going through and becoming famous and

752
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,120
Speaker 1: becoming successful in your league instead of having really great

753
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 1: prospects crash and burn like Robert Swift or Leon Smith

754
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,800
Speaker 1: or uh and the e B and all these guys

755
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,400
Speaker 1: who never made it, you know, never made a blip

756
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 1: on the NBA's radar, who were all top level prospects

757
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: coming out of high school because they weren't ready to

758
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:32,120
Speaker 1: play there. And various miles would fit into that category.

759
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,120
Speaker 1: The point you're getting too is a really smart one, okay,

760
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: And and Kurd did put that in his piece, which

761
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,239
Speaker 1: is I think back to when the golden era of

762
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:45,040
Speaker 1: the Big East Conference when Pat Ewing, Uh, you know

763
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,399
Speaker 1: when when Patrick Gwen was drafted by the New York Dicks.

764
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: Everybody knew who Patrick doing was, right like you just

765
00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:53,359
Speaker 1: you knew he was. All these guys, they they had

766
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:57,040
Speaker 1: built up their own image and likeness. And the here's

767
00:39:57,080 --> 00:39:59,839
Speaker 1: the here's the easiest one that I tell people all

768
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: that's time the idea that now the NBA and the

769
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:06,080
Speaker 1: G League is gonna offer a hud grand for guys

770
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: to come out. The fact is that you've been able

771
00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:12,000
Speaker 1: to come out and go to the G League before.

772
00:40:12,200 --> 00:40:14,759
Speaker 1: Since since two thousand six, you've been able to come out.

773
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 1: Now no one has has done it. But you're able

774
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:19,839
Speaker 1: to come out. And if you come out, you're able

775
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: to get a get a shoot deal, or able to

776
00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 1: to sign autographs. The problem is your shoe deal, your autographs,

777
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: they have zero value because it's not associated with the

778
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: university and it's not associated with an NBA team. Nobody cares.

779
00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:36,920
Speaker 1: You're just some guy who is a high school All American.

780
00:40:37,280 --> 00:40:39,480
Speaker 1: And I think that's the easiest argument in the well,

781
00:40:39,480 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: their name and likeness. The name and likeness is attached

782
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: to a school. Like, you know, my brother says this

783
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,520
Speaker 1: all the time. He's like, look or organ State, but

784
00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:49,879
Speaker 1: you can say this about anybody. The only people who

785
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,759
Speaker 1: come to our games, our organ State fans. That's it. Now.

786
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:56,239
Speaker 1: They may or they may come to see the opposition.

787
00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 1: They know people that come like, sorry, they don't like

788
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: when a Lonzo ball came to town with U c

789
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:03,440
Speaker 1: l A. A Lonzo ball played for U c l A.

790
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,279
Speaker 1: That's who you come to Tampa. That's what the sale is.

791
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: And then you learn about a Lonzo ball and um

792
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,239
Speaker 1: and and and the idea. And I thought, you know,

793
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,360
Speaker 1: Jim Beheim may not have articulated it well enough, but

794
00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 1: what he was saying about the Basley kid was like, look,

795
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 1: you know, all of these deals that Syracuse has and

796
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: all the tickets that are sold, they're based upon playing

797
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,960
Speaker 1: for Jim Beheim and playing for Syracuse and the storied success.

798
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:29,760
Speaker 1: Do you need players in order to have that success? Sure,

799
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 1: but you only get to know those players because they

800
00:41:32,760 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: play at Syracuse, and that has value to the NBA

801
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:38,960
Speaker 1: as value you don't have to tell us, you know,

802
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:41,319
Speaker 1: like we knew. The only reason Trey Young is something

803
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: is because ESPN followed him around like they were he

804
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,839
Speaker 1: was the Kardashians. Uh. And that's one guy a year

805
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,439
Speaker 1: that that they follow around. So I think that Park

806
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,680
Speaker 1: gets undervalued and by the NBA, and then I think

807
00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,120
Speaker 1: by the common fan. They don't understand the true value

808
00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,400
Speaker 1: in all that you get in college bass, which just

809
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:02,360
Speaker 1: really frustrating fight that I feel like I'm on the

810
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,960
Speaker 1: right side of history. But man, if you engage in

811
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:07,680
Speaker 1: social media, they make you feel like you're you're you know,

812
00:42:07,760 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 1: you're you're some guy who wants to revert back to

813
00:42:10,960 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 1: the prehistoric days. You know. I have conversations with people

814
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 1: all the time about exactly what you're talking about. And

815
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,319
Speaker 1: I point out when people talk about Ben Simmons, who

816
00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:22,480
Speaker 1: clearly didn't want to be at L s U and

817
00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:24,279
Speaker 1: I and I'm and I wrote at the time, and

818
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:26,000
Speaker 1: I still if you didn't want to be there, then

819
00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: why did you travel nine thousand miles to get there?

820
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 1: I mean, that's always from Australia, folks, He's not from

821
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,120
Speaker 1: New Orleans. Why did he come all that way if

822
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,160
Speaker 1: he didn't want to be there. But even though he

823
00:42:36,239 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: didn't want to be there, and even though he didn't,

824
00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't the world's best teammate in college apparently. Uh,

825
00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 1: he's still got a Nike contract for twenty million dollars

826
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,520
Speaker 1: coming out of of l s U. For the very

827
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:52,839
Speaker 1: reason you talked about. ESPN was absolutely fascinated with him

828
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:54,799
Speaker 1: and showed all his games and made a big deal

829
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,239
Speaker 1: about all of them and promote all of them when

830
00:42:57,239 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: you were watching somebody else. And so at the end

831
00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:02,200
Speaker 1: of that, he was the number one overall pick and

832
00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: he was a valued commodity because people had an idea

833
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:09,400
Speaker 1: what to expect, uh, the idea of tanking. You know,

834
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:12,000
Speaker 1: what is what is tanking going to be valued at?

835
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 1: You know, except in the absolutely once every fifty years

836
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:18,000
Speaker 1: circumstance when there's a Lebron James and that you know,

837
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: maybe in twenty five years there'll be another. Um, what

838
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,640
Speaker 1: are you tanking for? If you do this, I mean

839
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:25,600
Speaker 1: you're taking for a guy coming out of high school

840
00:43:25,600 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 1: who may turn out to be you know, Tyson Chandler

841
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:30,920
Speaker 1: had a good career after it took him like seven

842
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,640
Speaker 1: years to become a player. Meanwhile, all the guys from

843
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: his class that were in that class, Kawamie Brown and

844
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: Eddie Curry, uh and other other high school players that

845
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,600
Speaker 1: I'm forgetting the guy who who wound up coming out

846
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:46,959
Speaker 1: of Oak Hill now, um, but he was a top

847
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:49,319
Speaker 1: ten pick as well. Uh. You know, they had four

848
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 1: big guys in the top ten who were all high

849
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,360
Speaker 1: school big guys, and none of them became an immediate smash,

850
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:57,160
Speaker 1: none of them became a a complete star, and and

851
00:43:57,440 --> 00:44:01,239
Speaker 1: Tyson Chandler only became a really an NBA player after

852
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:04,879
Speaker 1: a lot of years of trying to find his role. Yeah,

853
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:06,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if you go back and track it, I

854
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:08,719
Speaker 1: think the big guy is the one that has been

855
00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:11,720
Speaker 1: we have chased off to the NBA far too quickly,

856
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:13,839
Speaker 1: and guards as well, But big guys, especially if there're

857
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,440
Speaker 1: any good at all, that they're gonna leave right away.

858
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,200
Speaker 1: And one of the things in terms of basketball that's

859
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:21,960
Speaker 1: missing it like Dwight Howard for example, if you can

860
00:44:22,120 --> 00:44:27,000
Speaker 1: if you don't ever learn to dominate in the low post, right,

861
00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:29,960
Speaker 1: And what happens when you get to the NBA generally,

862
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 1: that generally is you get there and you're thrust into

863
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:36,719
Speaker 1: playing far too early because you're a high draft pick,

864
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:38,879
Speaker 1: and so the owner is like, hey, you gotta play

865
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:41,240
Speaker 1: the kid, you gotta learn on the job now. Joel

866
00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 1: and Bead because of injury, didn't play and got to

867
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 1: work and develop his game some. So he's one of

868
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: the exceptions to it. But a lot of these guys

869
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: they come out and they haven't dominated in college basketball,

870
00:44:52,680 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: dominated specifically in a low post. And when you combine

871
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:59,160
Speaker 1: that with the fact that NBA offenses now don't focus

872
00:44:59,239 --> 00:45:01,719
Speaker 1: on the low post with you, you combine that with

873
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:05,560
Speaker 1: the way the NBA game is officiated, so it's really

874
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:09,120
Speaker 1: hard to score in there. All these big guys become

875
00:45:09,239 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 1: shop blockers and rebounders and rim runners, and none of

876
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,239
Speaker 1: them have the refined skill of an achem elaja On. Now,

877
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 1: in fairness, Achim was not that refined when he got there.

878
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 1: But compared to when he got to Houston, when he

879
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:25,759
Speaker 1: learned a dunk from a scout who you know, had

880
00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:27,160
Speaker 1: to jump off a chair to teach him how to

881
00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:29,600
Speaker 1: dunk of basketball, right like, he was more refined. So

882
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,200
Speaker 1: I I look, I think this is just like having

883
00:45:32,239 --> 00:45:35,120
Speaker 1: a kid. I have a nine year old son, and yes,

884
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,200
Speaker 1: do I play him up? So I'm sure, And when

885
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:39,440
Speaker 1: I play him up, he has to learn to facilitate

886
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,960
Speaker 1: and just be one of the guys and be the

887
00:45:42,040 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 1: sixth or seventh or eighth best player. But it's also

888
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:47,600
Speaker 1: super important that you play against kids your own age,

889
00:45:47,719 --> 00:45:50,799
Speaker 1: even if you dominate that so you have confidence so

890
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 1: that you don't fall into the trap of being just

891
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: a role player. And I think that if you look

892
00:45:55,200 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 1: at a lot of big guys that have come out early,

893
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,720
Speaker 1: a majority of them become role players because they're thrust

894
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,520
Speaker 1: into early and there is not the time to learn

895
00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: to develop skills in the low post on the fly.

896
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 1: It's just too hard for an NBA team to work

897
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: on like that. That talk about dominance, because I've always

898
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 1: said that dominance is a skill and that that's why

899
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,440
Speaker 1: you know, I'm not the biggest admirer of the baseball circumstances.

900
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 1: I don't think that they treat their players great. But

901
00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: there's there's a reason why you go from Double A

902
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:30,480
Speaker 1: and hit three thirty, and then you go to Triple

903
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 1: A and maybe you hit two fifty, and then they

904
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,319
Speaker 1: keep you around a little while longer than you hit

905
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: three forty, and then they bring you up to the

906
00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:39,719
Speaker 1: bigs because you have to learn how to be great

907
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,240
Speaker 1: at against each level of competition. And if you skip

908
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 1: from you know, high school competition which isn't substantial all

909
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:48,960
Speaker 1: the way to the NBA, which is the best in

910
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:53,839
Speaker 1: the world. You don't ever learn to dominate against real competition,

911
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 1: whereas you you know, if you're Anthony Davis and you're

912
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,600
Speaker 1: dominating the kids that prospective Charter and then you go

913
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:01,640
Speaker 1: to can Tucky and it takes you a little while

914
00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 1: to feel that, and then by the end of that year,

915
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: even in one year, if you David changed as a player.

916
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:11,800
Speaker 1: And and I think that that's often dismissed by people

917
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:15,279
Speaker 1: who think it's really easy because they've seen Kobe and KG,

918
00:47:15,520 --> 00:47:18,839
Speaker 1: and they've and and and and Lebron and so oh well,

919
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,400
Speaker 1: it must be easy because those guys did it. And meanwhile,

920
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,400
Speaker 1: they don't look below the surface and see the number

921
00:47:24,440 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: of players. I mean, like I said, just from that

922
00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:28,879
Speaker 1: one draft, I think that was two thousand and one,

923
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 1: you know, top ten highly talented big guys who either

924
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:37,360
Speaker 1: became good players or very good players, or flopped completely

925
00:47:37,719 --> 00:47:41,320
Speaker 1: because they hadn't had the training necessary to become great.

926
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:46,279
Speaker 1: M No, I'm gonna completely agree with you. All right,

927
00:47:46,360 --> 00:47:49,320
Speaker 1: Let's let me just kind of wrap the college basketball

928
00:47:49,320 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 1: discussion was something that I think pertains to this year.

929
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: How does it affect the sus has probably played his

930
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,879
Speaker 1: last game in Kansas? Is that? Is that fair that?

931
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that. And here's the reason. There was

932
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:04,240
Speaker 1: the in the in the trial conversation, there was the conress,

933
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:08,440
Speaker 1: there was the talk about the guardian of the SOSA

934
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:11,439
Speaker 1: getting paid twenty thousand, but that payment never happened. And

935
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,240
Speaker 1: and it's reflected in the transcript that payment never happened,

936
00:48:14,520 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: but there was allegedly, or according to testimony, a payment

937
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:23,319
Speaker 1: of that could be mitigated. It may, you know, it may.

938
00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: I'm not sure exactly the number of games that he

939
00:48:26,400 --> 00:48:29,719
Speaker 1: would need to miss in order for that to be mitigated,

940
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:32,080
Speaker 1: but I think it falls within the realm of a

941
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 1: number that can be you know, set aside. If he

942
00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:37,480
Speaker 1: makes restitution and it sits out at an X number

943
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 1: of games, I think it you know, it's still possible

944
00:48:40,040 --> 00:48:43,360
Speaker 1: for him to return. Um, it may require him to

945
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: do what Wiley from Auburn did a year ago. Perhaps

946
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna it's just that's just a guess. I mean,

947
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 1: where while he was asked to set out an entire

948
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:55,200
Speaker 1: year and did um that it may get to that. Again,

949
00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:57,719
Speaker 1: I'm not sure the dollar figure, and I'm not sure

950
00:48:57,719 --> 00:48:59,880
Speaker 1: where the n c Double A will come down. But

951
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,560
Speaker 1: then it would be up to Dissocia to decide what,

952
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:04,800
Speaker 1: you know, what he wanted to do with his career

953
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,920
Speaker 1: if he's handed a suspension of of however many games

954
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: this year or the entire year or whatever. If if

955
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 1: he does play, Um, it's Kansas, it's Kentucky, it's Duke,

956
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:21,959
Speaker 1: it's Gonzaga. UM. I'd probably throw Virginia in there because

957
00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: I do think they have they have age and experience,

958
00:49:24,680 --> 00:49:26,759
Speaker 1: even if it's not positive experience in the n c

959
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: A tournament recently. Um, is it safe to say you

960
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:34,080
Speaker 1: can circle those five teams and you're probably going to

961
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:37,799
Speaker 1: get two or three Final four participants. Oh, I think that,

962
00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's the best group, although I

963
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:43,400
Speaker 1: would include probably North Carolina in there as well. Uh.

964
00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:46,560
Speaker 1: North Carolina has a pretty good core of veteran players,

965
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:51,480
Speaker 1: Kenny Williams, Cam Johnson, uh May Uh. So they've got

966
00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,880
Speaker 1: a pretty good group, and then they've got a terrific

967
00:49:54,920 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: freshman and the sere little the kind of game changer

968
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,600
Speaker 1: that they haven't had in a while. And it comes

969
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:05,239
Speaker 1: down to whether Kobe White can be a you know,

970
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:07,760
Speaker 1: a high level point guard for them, but the freshman,

971
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: and he's not been you know, he's not been a

972
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: point guard his entire career, so it may be an adjustment.

973
00:50:13,239 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 1: And but I think the talent is there, and Roy

974
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,239
Speaker 1: does well enough with these sorts of teams that it

975
00:50:19,280 --> 00:50:21,880
Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me if they were right there, you know,

976
00:50:22,040 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: like a five A or five B kind of team.

977
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:28,000
Speaker 1: Isn't it remarkable? The Roy Williams, like the if you

978
00:50:28,080 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: tell the true story of Roy Williams, right, he was

979
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:34,680
Speaker 1: the most incredible recruiter he had. He was indefatigable. When

980
00:50:34,719 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: he was in Kansas, right, he'd sit, he'd he'd have

981
00:50:37,560 --> 00:50:39,840
Speaker 1: practice early, getting a plane fly out. And I remember

982
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:41,840
Speaker 1: he's recruiting Paul Pierce like he'd sit in mid court

983
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 1: at Paul Pierce's games, or when Jack Bond was playing,

984
00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:48,719
Speaker 1: like he was an unbelievable recruiter. And then you know

985
00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,799
Speaker 1: at Carolina he had some They had the investigation of

986
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: the African American studies, which was not just them, but

987
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 1: it was football as well as well as his own

988
00:50:56,560 --> 00:50:58,799
Speaker 1: personal health problems. He lost a friend as well. And

989
00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:03,880
Speaker 1: remember when he lost Harrison Barnes to Doke who he everyone?

990
00:51:03,960 --> 00:51:06,520
Speaker 1: I mean, excuse me when when when they got Harrison Barnes,

991
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 1: everybody thought it's it's it's back and it's on. And

992
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: then Harrison Barnes didn't quite live up to the to

993
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: the building and then with with the with the investigation,

994
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,800
Speaker 1: health problems, like he lost some of the Mode jone recruiting,

995
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,719
Speaker 1: and maybe it's because he wasn't playing he didn't want

996
00:51:21,719 --> 00:51:23,359
Speaker 1: to play ball when some of these other schools wanted

997
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:25,040
Speaker 1: to play ball or whatever in terms of the shoot

998
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,880
Speaker 1: company stuff. And they haven't been seen as you know,

999
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,239
Speaker 1: they're not Duke, they're not Kentucky, and maybe they don't

1000
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:34,680
Speaker 1: they're not even as hip as as you know Villanova

1001
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 1: is now. And yet he won a national title. He's

1002
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,000
Speaker 1: super competitive. They got a shot this year, like it's

1003
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,720
Speaker 1: the The evolution of Roy Williams is really kind of fascinating.

1004
00:51:44,719 --> 00:51:46,440
Speaker 1: It feels like it's going on the under the radar.

1005
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: You know. I I sat with him on as like

1006
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 1: a rolled up wrestling matter or something like that, because

1007
00:51:52,560 --> 00:51:55,759
Speaker 1: they for some reason there were no chairs in the

1008
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:58,760
Speaker 1: gym that day as they were getting ready for practice.

1009
00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: This is the fall of twenty sixteen, and and you

1010
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,600
Speaker 1: could tell that he was just beaten down. I mean,

1011
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:06,399
Speaker 1: I've never seen him like that, and I've known him

1012
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:09,520
Speaker 1: for twenty years or whatever. Um, he was just you know,

1013
00:52:09,719 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 1: he was just beat and and he and and he

1014
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,160
Speaker 1: and it was reflected in the conversation both on and

1015
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:18,440
Speaker 1: off the record. I mean he the investigation thing was

1016
00:52:18,520 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 1: really dragging him down. Uh and and and you know

1017
00:52:23,200 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: you could feel it. And and then of course they'd

1018
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,800
Speaker 1: lost the game the Villanova on the on the buzzer

1019
00:52:27,840 --> 00:52:31,400
Speaker 1: shot and that didn't help. And then all of a sudden,

1020
00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,399
Speaker 1: you know what, uh, you know, six eight months later

1021
00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 1: their national champions they had a phenomenal year. And then

1022
00:52:38,239 --> 00:52:41,200
Speaker 1: subsequent to that, the n C double A says, we

1023
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,720
Speaker 1: can't make a case. And I think that that really

1024
00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:48,520
Speaker 1: rejuvenated him both, you know, the success of that team.

1025
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,439
Speaker 1: Coaching that team, I think he really enjoyed being around them.

1026
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,560
Speaker 1: They were a good group. They were it was it

1027
00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 1: was a good group of young men that he didn't

1028
00:52:55,920 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: have a lot of problems coaching that, and I think

1029
00:53:00,520 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: he was really happy about that. And then you know,

1030
00:53:03,000 --> 00:53:05,319
Speaker 1: when they got to clean Bill think, to me, there

1031
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,440
Speaker 1: was no question that it was the you know, it

1032
00:53:07,560 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: was the uh, the controversy that was make causing them

1033
00:53:11,640 --> 00:53:14,440
Speaker 1: to struggle in recruiting because no one, none of the

1034
00:53:14,480 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: none of the top players could be sure they want.

1035
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:18,359
Speaker 1: You know, those guys all want you know, they're only

1036
00:53:18,360 --> 00:53:20,400
Speaker 1: gonna be there a year. They want to play in

1037
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:22,319
Speaker 1: the n C Double A Tournament. They're not coming there

1038
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:25,160
Speaker 1: because they are you know, they may really like your school,

1039
00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:28,279
Speaker 1: but they know that they're not necessarily you know, going

1040
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:30,279
Speaker 1: to be there for four or five years. They can

1041
00:53:30,320 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 1: make up for one that doesn't go right, and so

1042
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: it has to be just right. And so they were

1043
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,520
Speaker 1: getting told if you go to Carolina, this could be

1044
00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:42,280
Speaker 1: the year year out and they all and and and

1045
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,280
Speaker 1: you know, like they didn't like that. I was talking

1046
00:53:45,320 --> 00:53:49,320
Speaker 1: about it. North Carolina didn't. But I had had conversations

1047
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,040
Speaker 1: with coach Williams and others had as well that said, like,

1048
00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,319
Speaker 1: maybe he's just gonna retire, Maybe he's just gonna take

1049
00:53:54,320 --> 00:53:56,000
Speaker 1: his national champiship brings in his Hall of Fame and

1050
00:53:56,040 --> 00:53:58,920
Speaker 1: go home. I don't think that helped him. Um. And

1051
00:53:58,960 --> 00:54:00,840
Speaker 1: I also think there's there's one other part to it

1052
00:54:00,960 --> 00:54:04,799
Speaker 1: in that the the no show class things started when

1053
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:09,399
Speaker 1: Dean Smith was there and he was alive and and

1054
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: he wasn't And so he's defending the you know, it

1055
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:15,000
Speaker 1: feels like he's defending the honor of Carolina basketball and

1056
00:54:15,040 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 1: the honor of an incredible mentor who couldn't defend himself. Right.

1057
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,160
Speaker 1: I think all of those things took away from it,

1058
00:54:21,200 --> 00:54:23,640
Speaker 1: but it is. It is interesting now and how North

1059
00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,160
Speaker 1: Carolina who used to or Roy Williams, who used to

1060
00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:29,600
Speaker 1: you know, he wasn't recruiting, he was selecting, you know,

1061
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:34,160
Speaker 1: uh now he's now Now he's really recruiting and getting

1062
00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:37,319
Speaker 1: pieces and guys that I mean, Luke Mays is best

1063
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,200
Speaker 1: player Mets. It's it's it's college basketball in two thousand eighteen,

1064
00:54:41,239 --> 00:54:44,040
Speaker 1: two thousand nineteen. But it also speaks to that would

1065
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: never happen for a Roy Williams team in the last

1066
00:54:46,920 --> 00:54:49,680
Speaker 1: thirty years. And that's kind of how how he's involved.

1067
00:54:49,680 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 1: All right, real quick, because we we gotta run um.

1068
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,359
Speaker 1: One of the adages in college basketball this year are

1069
00:54:56,040 --> 00:54:59,880
Speaker 1: get old and stay old. Right. Teams that take transfer

1070
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,760
Speaker 1: in fifth years and whatever and have experience of playing

1071
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,560
Speaker 1: together have a tendency, especially earlier in the season and

1072
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:07,360
Speaker 1: win games. Then you look in the n c A tournament.

1073
00:55:07,560 --> 00:55:09,799
Speaker 1: Some of these older teams. You know, you got four

1074
00:55:09,880 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: year old dudes. I was twenty four when I finished.

1075
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,799
Speaker 1: You got a chance to compete against frankly better prospects.

1076
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,960
Speaker 1: Is there a team out there that we're all missing on? Uh?

1077
00:55:19,000 --> 00:55:22,239
Speaker 1: You know, I I think that the one team, and

1078
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:24,239
Speaker 1: I'm not sure that if fits to get old things,

1079
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: that the one team I think that's being overlooked, uh

1080
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:32,399
Speaker 1: is Arizona. They still have high end players. They're not

1081
00:55:32,480 --> 00:55:35,279
Speaker 1: you know, not guys who have been successful yet. Most

1082
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:37,120
Speaker 1: of the guys that they have there have been bit

1083
00:55:37,200 --> 00:55:40,600
Speaker 1: players at best. But those guys were all you know,

1084
00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:45,680
Speaker 1: Brandon Randolph was was a really coveted player. Uh. You

1085
00:55:45,719 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 1: look at that. And then they do have some age

1086
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,440
Speaker 1: as well that they got players in as They got

1087
00:55:51,480 --> 00:55:55,120
Speaker 1: a couple of players in as grad transfers, Ryan Luther

1088
00:55:55,239 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 1: from pitt being one of them, and so they will

1089
00:55:57,719 --> 00:56:00,560
Speaker 1: have that age. Uh. And then they will have some

1090
00:56:00,680 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 1: really good athletic wings. And they've got Brandon Williams to

1091
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,480
Speaker 1: play point guard, a top high school player. Uh. So

1092
00:56:07,520 --> 00:56:09,799
Speaker 1: they've got some real possibility there. And I don't I'm

1093
00:56:09,840 --> 00:56:11,720
Speaker 1: not saying that they're going to be another Pack twelve

1094
00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: champion or that they're going to be another top seed.

1095
00:56:15,000 --> 00:56:18,280
Speaker 1: But I think that's a tournament team. And almost everyone

1096
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:22,400
Speaker 1: I've seen has dismissed them as that sort of squad

1097
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:24,719
Speaker 1: because they lost the you know, the the truckload of

1098
00:56:24,760 --> 00:56:28,640
Speaker 1: players to the NBA. Yeah, I'm I'm gonna be a

1099
00:56:28,719 --> 00:56:30,480
Speaker 1: doubt of there. I do like Ryan Luther. I thought

1100
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,359
Speaker 1: he was a good player at PIT, A guy who

1101
00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:35,239
Speaker 1: you know talking about who put his time in uh

1102
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,080
Speaker 1: and then you know he transfers out. He's a face

1103
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,920
Speaker 1: up five and they they've they've done a nice job

1104
00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,960
Speaker 1: of not being there, not gonna be a doormat in

1105
00:56:43,000 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 1: that league. But boy, that's a replacing an entire team,

1106
00:56:47,840 --> 00:56:51,719
Speaker 1: which is essentially what they're doing, um and and overcoming

1107
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,120
Speaker 1: this investigation. That would be a monumental achievement for a

1108
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 1: guy who I think is a really really good coach

1109
00:56:56,239 --> 00:56:58,640
Speaker 1: in is Sean Miller. I was, you know, I was

1110
00:56:58,680 --> 00:57:00,840
Speaker 1: thinking more of a clem some team that has I

1111
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,439
Speaker 1: think four or fifth year transfers um for four fifth

1112
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: year players on their squad, and one that was kind

1113
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 1: of a surprise of the a SEC. There's a team

1114
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 1: that I think could could do some damage. I think

1115
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,239
Speaker 1: a Kansas State is a team that you know, do

1116
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 1: I do? I do? I think they're and they're ranked.

1117
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,680
Speaker 1: They're both teams are ranked. Um. But I think a

1118
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:20,920
Speaker 1: Kansas State is a team with the Dean Wade and

1119
00:57:21,080 --> 00:57:23,840
Speaker 1: Barry Brown and and having two point guards now that

1120
00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,200
Speaker 1: have seen some success. I think that's a team that

1121
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:29,360
Speaker 1: wouldn't surprise me at all. They're playing in the second

1122
00:57:29,400 --> 00:57:31,800
Speaker 1: weekend in the n c A Tournament. I think that's

1123
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 1: kind of what we're coming around to in college basketball,

1124
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,760
Speaker 1: which is programs that can keep their players and add

1125
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,120
Speaker 1: in a transfer here or there are the ones that

1126
00:57:39,120 --> 00:57:41,680
Speaker 1: are going to have the longest sustained success. But it's

1127
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 1: hard to get old and stay old. Mike. I can't

1128
00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,920
Speaker 1: tell you how much I appreciate you joining us. I

1129
00:57:45,960 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 1: always look forward to reading your work, whether it's on

1130
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 1: Twitter that links me to the Sporting News or just

1131
00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 1: going to the Sporting News. Of course, look forward to

1132
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: seeing you with my friend Dave Revson and all those

1133
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:56,960
Speaker 1: big Big ten network guys very very soon. Thanks so

1134
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:59,800
Speaker 1: much for joining us. Thank you, Doug. I always enjoyed

1135
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:02,880
Speaker 1: listening to you and and seeing you on games you're

1136
00:58:02,960 --> 00:58:05,440
Speaker 1: you're one of my favorite analysts, so looking forward to

1137
00:58:05,480 --> 00:58:07,680
Speaker 1: the start of the season. Reminder, listened to the Doug

1138
00:58:07,720 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 1: Otlive Show on Fox Sports Radio daily from three to

1139
00:58:10,080 --> 00:58:13,840
Speaker 1: six Eastern time called three Pacific and download the podcast

1140
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:16,680
Speaker 1: you missed it. Thanks for listening. We'll be back forward

1141
00:58:16,720 --> 00:58:18,760
Speaker 1: next week. This is all ball