1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: Quody balance with Joseph's gotten more. There's sometimes I wonder, 2 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:14,159 Speaker 1: I wonder am I secure enough? And when I say that, 3 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: I mean have I provided physical security for my home, 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: my family? Have I provided security, say, for instance, for 5 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: my identity for you know, my future. Security is a 6 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:33,600 Speaker 1: watchword that we use and sometimes we just kind of 7 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,559 Speaker 1: throw it around and it's very I don't know, it's 8 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,519 Speaker 1: very broad. What does it actually mean? Well, I can't 9 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: necessarily go into great detail about the security that has 10 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: come along with financial institutions or even homes in the 11 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 1: sense of surveillance and all that. That's not really my 12 00:00:54,120 --> 00:00:58,920 Speaker 1: Bailey Wick. But there is one area which I pride 13 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: myself on that has to do with security, and that 14 00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: is crom scenes. What does it mean to secure crom scene? 15 00:01:13,040 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: Because if it's not secure, everything that is of value 16 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:28,800 Speaker 1: can be lost. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is 17 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: body bags, Brother, Dave Lord, have mercy? Have we been 18 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:36,720 Speaker 1: on a journey? 19 00:01:37,160 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: It has been unique in the way this story is covered. 20 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 2: And I think the reason is twofold and I mentioned it. 21 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: I mean in the first days when network broadcasting is 22 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:56,320 Speaker 2: very territorial, also very incestuous and meaning that people working 23 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 2: at the network level on the air do come from 24 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: other plays and go other places and in this so 25 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:06,600 Speaker 2: this is one of those rare occasions where the person 26 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,839 Speaker 2: Savannah Guthrie is very well thought of in the community 27 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,080 Speaker 2: of talent. People that have worked with her on the 28 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,480 Speaker 2: air and people off the air all say great things 29 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 2: about her. What that means when her mother went missing, 30 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: everyone at the network level had a story to share 31 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,120 Speaker 2: about Savannah, a good story about who she is and 32 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: how she treats other people. That's why all the borders 33 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 2: were down. You've got Good Morning America on ABC talking 34 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 2: about the Today Show, their chief competitor in that morning 35 00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:47,480 Speaker 2: time talking about the network person. You know, this is 36 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: a these are no nos that are not done. 37 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:55,880 Speaker 1: Fox and Friends, Yes, and you know, polar opposites here 38 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,760 Speaker 1: and yeah, I mean yeah, I got to tell you 39 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: it is amazing. Can I add a little bit to this. 40 00:03:04,919 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: I think that they're this is I'm going to a 41 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:15,600 Speaker 1: really dark place here. I think that there is kind 42 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: of this sudden hint of situational awareness on the part 43 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 1: of a lot of these folks that are in the 44 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 1: public eye, because I think that your high profile nature 45 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 1: makes people in your close circle adjacent to you. I 46 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 1: think that it has the potential of having them targeted, 47 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: and there's an awareness and I've held that. I feel 48 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: that on one level because you know, I look at 49 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,480 Speaker 1: this and i'm you know, and I just look at 50 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,440 Speaker 1: the landscape out there, you know, in p mc County, 51 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: and I think out of all the houses on that street, 52 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 1: all the retirees that are there, all of the money 53 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: that is allegedly there, the affluence there. Why yeah, And 54 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: so I don't know, it's it's really dark, but I 55 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 1: think that, you know, you go back to, you know, 56 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: kind of these threads of connection relative to to all 57 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:19,279 Speaker 1: of these folks, and I think that it's it hits 58 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: them the reality. It's a as they say, a cold 59 00:04:21,880 --> 00:04:22,719 Speaker 1: cup of coffee. 60 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: That's why the case has gotten the coverage it has 61 00:04:25,120 --> 00:04:30,039 Speaker 2: because of the people involved. The network anchor of a 62 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 2: morning show is a high profile individual for the network. 63 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,720 Speaker 2: As a matter of fact, in Savannah's case, she was 64 00:04:35,920 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 2: heading to Italy to cover the Winter Olympics for NBC. 65 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,920 Speaker 2: So you know, there's a lot going on in this 66 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:45,919 Speaker 2: story that still hasn't been told. But I think that's 67 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:51,400 Speaker 2: why the waterwall coverage it has been three weeks now 68 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 2: as we begin taping this show, and that's a long 69 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 2: time when you look at an eighty four year old 70 00:04:58,839 --> 00:05:01,520 Speaker 2: woman being kidnapped in the middle of the night, where 71 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:04,400 Speaker 2: we were told she's got twenty four hours and her 72 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:07,280 Speaker 2: medication is up. She dies, I mean you remember that, 73 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 2: That's what we were told radios right off the top. 74 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: So right here from the timeline, let's go back to 75 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:18,440 Speaker 2: January thirty first. Nancy Guthrie vanishes from her home Saturday night, 76 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 2: January thirty first. She went to her daughter Annie and 77 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 2: her husband went to that house, took an uber at 78 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 2: five point thirty in the afternoon, went to do dinner 79 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:31,280 Speaker 2: and game night. She gets home nine forty five. At 80 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: nine forty eight, her son in law drops her off 81 00:05:34,600 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 2: at her home. Boy Nancy would get mad at me, Well, 82 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:39,280 Speaker 2: who's her? Who's him? What are you talking about? 83 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 1: Home? 84 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 2: All right? Son in law drops Nancy Guthrie off at 85 00:05:43,560 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 2: her home. Garage door closes at nine point fifty. This 86 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: is the assumption that when the garage door shuts, Nancy 87 00:05:54,520 --> 00:05:59,280 Speaker 2: is inside the home nine to fifty pm, January thirty first. 88 00:05:59,640 --> 00:06:06,720 Speaker 2: At one forty seven am, February first, the doorbell camera disconnects. 89 00:06:06,880 --> 00:06:09,600 Speaker 2: We'll talk about the video in a minute. At two 90 00:06:09,760 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 2: twelve am, camera software detects a person, but no video 91 00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:20,840 Speaker 2: exists yet. And then at two twenty eight am, Nancy Guthries' 92 00:06:20,920 --> 00:06:25,640 Speaker 2: pacemaker app disconnects from her phone. We have been told 93 00:06:25,839 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 2: it connects via Bluetooth and has about a twenty foot radius. 94 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 2: That's it. Once she is twenty feet away from her 95 00:06:36,040 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 2: Apple Watch, the pacemaker cannot and will not connect. So 96 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 2: we're going on the assignment, we being those of us 97 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:48,840 Speaker 2: watching this and broadcasting about it, that at twenty eight am, 98 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie's physical body was more than twenty feet away 99 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 2: from her Apple Watch and disconnected and has now reconnected 100 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,719 Speaker 2: that we are aware of at this point. The next morning, 101 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie again, the reporting was all over the place 102 00:07:05,800 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 2: on this. But over the last couple of years since COVID, 103 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 2: Nancy has met with some friends of hers on Sunday 104 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:17,720 Speaker 2: mornings to watch the streaming of a church service out 105 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:21,240 Speaker 2: of New York City that Savannah Guthrie attends live and 106 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 2: in person, and her mom would gather with some friends 107 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: in different homes. They rotated and they watched the service together. 108 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,960 Speaker 2: So Nancy Guthrie and Tucson, Arizona was able to attend 109 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,000 Speaker 2: church with her youngest daughter, Savannah while Savannah was in 110 00:07:38,000 --> 00:07:42,880 Speaker 2: New York City. Very just loving, very nice, very you know. 111 00:07:43,400 --> 00:07:47,720 Speaker 2: And that's why when Nancy Guthrie did not show up 112 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: at her friend's home to watch the service like they 113 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:54,640 Speaker 2: did every other Sunday, they tried to They being her friends, 114 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,840 Speaker 2: reached out. They tried texting, they tried calling, and could 115 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 2: not get Nancy. They could not find Nancy Guthrie that morning. 116 00:08:02,960 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 2: That is why the friends called Annie, Hey, can't get 117 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: your mom. You know what, do you know where she is? 118 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:14,680 Speaker 2: Annie and Tomaso go to the house some of the 119 00:08:14,720 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: friends and that's when it has discovered that Nancy Guthrie 120 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:21,080 Speaker 2: is not in her home and they call nine one 121 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: one at twelve oh three noon. Okay, that is the 122 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 2: basic timeline that we have operating past that timeline. Joe, 123 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: you from the very beginning talked about what we would 124 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 2: be looking for. We very broad we broadcasters investigators looking 125 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:48,720 Speaker 2: into this case. And uh, there was what we have 126 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:54,880 Speaker 2: been told what we have seen two different things. The 127 00:08:54,880 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: Pete mccownay Sheriff's Department documented the scene for about eighteen hours, 128 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 2: eighteen to twenty hours, so the scene was turned back 129 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 2: over to the family within twenty four hours of her disappearance. 130 00:09:11,120 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 2: Of Nancy Guthrie's disappearance, the family was allowed back in. 131 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: That is when pictures of blood on the front entryway 132 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 2: was photographed by journalists and released. We saw it that way, 133 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 2: That's how we got the pictures of blood. So, Joe, 134 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,360 Speaker 2: we know that the sheriff of p mccounty has been 135 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,440 Speaker 2: under a lot of scrutiny. Riley. So this is going 136 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,679 Speaker 2: on three weeks now. We still do not have a 137 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:44,720 Speaker 2: person of interest or a suspect. We've had a couple 138 00:09:44,760 --> 00:09:49,880 Speaker 2: of individuals who have been interrogated, questioned, but no arrest 139 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,920 Speaker 2: in this case yet. So if you would, can we 140 00:09:54,000 --> 00:10:00,440 Speaker 2: start with what we know about the entryway video, starting 141 00:10:00,480 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 2: there or wherever you want, because that's the case, that's 142 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,640 Speaker 2: the timeline, that's the case. And by the way, Nancy 143 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,120 Speaker 2: Guthrie has not been seen since nine forty eight pm 144 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,319 Speaker 2: when she walked into her house January thirty first, and 145 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,760 Speaker 2: the last indication that we have her within twenty feet 146 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 2: of her Apple watch was at two twenty eight am 147 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 2: February first. 148 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, and then she just kind of, you know, like 149 00:10:23,960 --> 00:10:31,320 Speaker 1: a vapor just vanishes at that point in Tom Yeah, 150 00:10:30,720 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 1: I was Okay, I got to tell you, going back 151 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: to the blood itself, the blood deposition there that's in 152 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 1: the doorway. First off, I was as an investigator, I 153 00:10:44,440 --> 00:10:45,840 Speaker 1: was amazed. I was looking at. 154 00:10:45,679 --> 00:10:51,400 Speaker 2: It, right, Okay, As a media personality, I mean. 155 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So as an old investigator, yeah, and 156 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: now in the media looking at it and seeing it, 157 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:06,959 Speaker 1: I'm thinking, how am I seeing this? Because again going 158 00:11:06,960 --> 00:11:13,319 Speaker 1: back to my opening statements about security, no one should 159 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 1: be seeing this other than the principles involved in this. 160 00:11:17,520 --> 00:11:22,880 Speaker 1: It goes back to you know, the my my idea 161 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 1: about the investigative bubble. There should be very very people 162 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: and very very few people inside. There's not enough oxygen 163 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:33,199 Speaker 1: in the space, if you will, And it's precious and 164 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: everything contained within that bubble is precious. Now, I can 165 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 1: tell you took the photo and I consider him to 166 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: be a friend, and it's Briannitten and Brian Inton was 167 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:49,360 Speaker 1: doing his job as a journalist. You take the tape down, 168 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:51,680 Speaker 1: and I tell my students this all the time, but 169 00:11:51,800 --> 00:11:55,040 Speaker 1: if you take that tape down, it's open season at 170 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: that point in time, you know everything. 171 00:11:57,720 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 2: Taking the tape down. What tape are you talking about? 172 00:11:59,840 --> 00:12:05,160 Speaker 1: Well, well, I'm talking about the kind of mystical boundary 173 00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: that is created by this, Yeah, by this three four 174 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: inch wide bit of yellow tape that says do not cross, 175 00:12:14,559 --> 00:12:16,719 Speaker 1: do not cross, or it says crime scene on it, 176 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 1: and that creates a boundary that you're not supposed to 177 00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:25,719 Speaker 1: go past. And once it comes down, all bets are 178 00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:28,680 Speaker 1: off at that point in time, because you're saying to 179 00:12:28,720 --> 00:12:33,559 Speaker 1: the public, Okay, well our work here is done, you know, 180 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,960 Speaker 1: and then if people want to walk up to the house, 181 00:12:37,320 --> 00:12:41,720 Speaker 1: they can. And I'm thinking, you know, and listen, please 182 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 1: do not misconstruy what I'm saying. But taking the long 183 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 1: view of this, if you know who you're dealing with here, 184 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:57,880 Speaker 1: as far as the mother of arguably one of the 185 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:04,679 Speaker 1: most high profile media people in the Okay, people are 186 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: going to come to the house. We've seen that. All 187 00:13:08,120 --> 00:13:10,280 Speaker 1: you gotta do is I mean, just look at the 188 00:13:10,320 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 1: case of Brian Laundry. Do you remember everybody just parked 189 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 1: out on the street day in and day out. Yes, 190 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: you know, and that's Brian Laundry, dude. I mean, in 191 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:21,600 Speaker 1: his family, I'm sorry. 192 00:13:21,679 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 2: I was so proud of the people that did that 193 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:26,560 Speaker 2: that they actually stood in front of that his house's parents' house. 194 00:13:26,720 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 2: Because at the time we didn't know where Gabby Petito was. 195 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 2: We just knew that that that he had actually that 196 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 2: Brian Laundry left down with that Gabby in a van 197 00:13:36,640 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 2: she bought, and then he returned in the van owned 198 00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,240 Speaker 2: by Gabby, but no Gabby. And they would they, being 199 00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,040 Speaker 2: the entire Laundry family, would not tell us, well, you 200 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 2: left with her, where is she? There is no reasonable explanation, 201 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:51,120 Speaker 2: So tell us something. 202 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 1: And there wait, let me, I got to tell you something. 203 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: Let me correct you on something real quick. Here data, 204 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,480 Speaker 1: it's okay to say scumback. I saw that you were 205 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,880 Speaker 1: about to say it. It's okay, you can use it. 206 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:03,880 Speaker 1: You can use a term here on body bags. 207 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:08,040 Speaker 2: That's the whole family, you know, that whole family. Yeah, 208 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 2: how do you anyway? So the people that were standing 209 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 2: outside the home yelling at him, I was like, man, 210 00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,400 Speaker 2: I want to be one of them, you know, right? 211 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree? And again it you know, it attracts, 212 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,600 Speaker 1: you know, like flies at a barbecue. You know, people 213 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 1: are going to show up just out of curiosity. You know, 214 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: I've been to Rex Huerman's house and there are signs 215 00:14:30,560 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: up everywhere at that location in Long Island. Yeah, because 216 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,120 Speaker 1: you got gawkers that come by all the time. 217 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,400 Speaker 2: So like if people that live next door to that 218 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,040 Speaker 2: house that was falling apart, and they would be like, hey, 219 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,880 Speaker 2: stay off my yard or his house, you are there. 220 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: Well, you know what, they're so sick of it because 221 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 1: it's a very open space and these other houses are beautiful, 222 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:58,160 Speaker 1: you know, and I'm standing there and and I'm looking 223 00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,120 Speaker 1: at this place and I'm thinking, oh my lord, a 224 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: dump and they have had to put up signs there 225 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,720 Speaker 1: so people. That's evidence, I think of of our theme 226 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: here that that people are going to show up. And 227 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:19,800 Speaker 1: with Nancy Guffrey, the the fact that this scene was 228 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: released so quickly. So going back to going back to 229 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: the blood. 230 00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:28,840 Speaker 2: You said Brian Innton took that picture. 231 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, he did. He walked up with his camera. Arguably, 232 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 1: I don't know. Arguably, Brian is probably the hardest working 233 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: person I know in media. I don't come across anybody. 234 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: This man travels more than anybody I know, and he 235 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,760 Speaker 1: is always on air, I mean always, So anytime I'm 236 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 1: starting to feel sorry, for myself. All I got to 237 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: do is thing about Brian, you know, you know, but 238 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: he got the blunt. 239 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:58,120 Speaker 2: He got the picture of blood. Mike have been you 240 00:15:58,160 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 2: know when you said, we don't normally get that, and 241 00:15:59,720 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 2: I'm like, you know what I get in looking at 242 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 2: these Usually we're talking about seeing this way after the fact, 243 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 2: you know, after months, years, sometimes that's when we get 244 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:14,400 Speaker 2: these types of pictures, but never in the investigation. 245 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:19,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm I look at it. And there's a 246 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:24,280 Speaker 1: term that's a provenance, you know, when you think about 247 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:31,320 Speaker 1: provenance as it applies to antique, antiques, fine art, you know, 248 00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:34,760 Speaker 1: where you're talking about something of value where you're trying 249 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: to measure it and you're trying to understand is it 250 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: is it intact? Okay? And I love that term because 251 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: it kind of encapsulates the what we talk about relative 252 00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:50,160 Speaker 1: to evidence in forensic science. So here let me throw 253 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:54,120 Speaker 1: this at you. Yeah, the fact that Brian walked up 254 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 1: there means that other people could have walked up there. 255 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: And let's just say that at sometime in the future 256 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:11,439 Speaker 1: someone is hooked up on charges. In regards to missus Guthrie, Well, 257 00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 1: if that blood at the front stoop right, there plays 258 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:21,320 Speaker 1: in to this scenario. This is going to be one 259 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:27,439 Speaker 1: of the first things that is attacked by by a 260 00:17:27,480 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: defense attorney because it was not secured on any level. 261 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 1: They released the scene at this point, and you know, 262 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:43,640 Speaker 1: and it doesn't matter that when you had to tape 263 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:50,040 Speaker 1: up that you sampled it, you uh sent it off 264 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:52,360 Speaker 1: for testing, you know, all these sorts of things, which 265 00:17:52,440 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: is fine and good, but the fact that it's an 266 00:17:55,359 --> 00:18:00,760 Speaker 1: ongoing investigation and you fail to continue to secure this 267 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: area and it's not just the security of that Dave. 268 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 1: When when Brian took that image, you remember that this 269 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:15,040 Speaker 1: person who appears on the camera went over and grabbed weeds, right, 270 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,000 Speaker 1: you're talking about the surveillance video that we surveillance radio 271 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:22,720 Speaker 1: and walks up and you know, holds it over the 272 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,840 Speaker 1: lens and drops it. David, Oh my gosh, those weren't collected. 273 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:32,080 Speaker 1: It's not like, okay, So if you look at the blood, 274 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: you think, okay, the blood could be sampled, you can 275 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:38,199 Speaker 1: photograph it, you can do all of the testing. You 276 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,679 Speaker 1: can even there's some testing, presumptive testing that we do 277 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,360 Speaker 1: it scenes to determine if in fact this is blood, 278 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 1: if it's human versus animal, blood. We can do that stuff, 279 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,360 Speaker 1: but the more granular stuff has to be done to lab. However, 280 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,840 Speaker 1: those weeds are left there. You can see them captured 281 00:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: in that image. Okay, Now, I've been on scenes where 282 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: we've collected foliage before. I mean, it just happens. You know, 283 00:19:04,680 --> 00:19:08,240 Speaker 1: there's stuff because you don't know if it's if you 284 00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,439 Speaker 1: were to take those leaves, okay, of those little weaves 285 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:15,359 Speaker 1: and flip them over, you don't know what's on the 286 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: underside of them. There could be blood deposition under there, 287 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:24,560 Speaker 1: there could be contact trace. But when I'm looking at 288 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 1: this one clip, I see weeds there, and I'm thinking, so, 289 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:31,679 Speaker 1: this is not collected, but yet it's immediately adjacent to 290 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 1: a blood deposition pattern that's there. It's just it boggles 291 00:19:39,960 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: the mind, just simply based in I'm only talking about 292 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,320 Speaker 1: you know, right now, you and I have been talking 293 00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:49,520 Speaker 1: for about twenty two minutes. I'm I haven't even gotten 294 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: to everything else. It's just this one little focused area 295 00:19:55,920 --> 00:19:59,280 Speaker 1: where you can see, you know, the lug nuts on 296 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,359 Speaker 1: the wheel are loose at this point. To use that 297 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:06,240 Speaker 1: in metaphor, I guess the wheels are wobbling, all right, 298 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: because she's still missing out there. If I've got blood, 299 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:14,800 Speaker 1: I'm thinking in my mind injury. If I'm thinking injury 300 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,440 Speaker 1: and I know that she's elderly, I'm thinking dark thoughts 301 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,640 Speaker 1: at this point in time. So it's not just you're 302 00:20:21,640 --> 00:20:26,160 Speaker 1: dealing with, say a missing person or even a kidnapping, 303 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: because I don't know that that early on they knew 304 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 1: that it was necessarily a kidnapping, or you know that 305 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: this these ransom things had popped up at that point 306 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: in time. You know, all we know now is that 307 00:20:39,320 --> 00:20:43,800 Speaker 1: we've got a missing elderly lady and she's apparently because 308 00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:46,199 Speaker 1: they have gone back and confirmed that is her blood. 309 00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:53,360 Speaker 1: And people ought not bleed without some kind of trauma, 310 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,920 Speaker 1: and I think it's trauma related blood. And I can 311 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: go into that and tell you what I think. But 312 00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:09,440 Speaker 1: yet it's it's released, and I'm not in any way. 313 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,600 Speaker 1: I'm not hammering the investigators that are on the ground. 314 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,920 Speaker 1: This is a management issue. You know, when it comes 315 00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 1: down to it. 316 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:21,919 Speaker 2: Who does make that call to you? Who makes the 317 00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 2: call when you have a scene and you've got a 318 00:21:24,720 --> 00:21:28,879 Speaker 2: crime scene based on the evidence you're seeing as an investigator, 319 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,639 Speaker 2: who makes the decision. I know that if you and 320 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 2: I were the first to arrive. We would go ahead 321 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:36,640 Speaker 2: and put up some tape, keep gawker, keep everybody back, 322 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,199 Speaker 2: you know, from this area. But who actually makes that 323 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,520 Speaker 2: determination that we are going to set the perimeter right here, 324 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:48,000 Speaker 2: right now? And then who makes the decision to keep 325 00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,160 Speaker 2: it up and have a stay up? Because I don't 326 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:52,000 Speaker 2: think this has ever come into play before for us 327 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:55,399 Speaker 2: in terms of a crime scene. And I know we 328 00:21:55,640 --> 00:21:57,960 Speaker 2: did run into some odd things with Coburger and the 329 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 2: crime scene there, but we're fucking this is a case 330 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,199 Speaker 2: where we have an a four year old woman who's missing. 331 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, this is this is I'll put you this way. 332 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 1: I would I would teach this stuff at Jack State 333 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 1: for my sophomore, for my freshman and sophomore kids, all 334 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,680 Speaker 1: right to eighteen year olds and nineteen year olds. Now, 335 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 1: whether or not they adhere to it, but who makes 336 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:29,919 Speaker 1: the ultimate decision. Well, in the words of Harry S. Truman, 337 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:49,760 Speaker 1: our former president, the buck stops here, you know, Dave, 338 00:22:49,840 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: the buck does stop here, and that you know, the 339 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: people that are working the scene, particularly a scene like 340 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: this at people painted Pima County, I think, is this 341 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: kind of rural backwater? It's not. I mean, it's not 342 00:23:06,119 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: you're in the Tucson area down there. They have crimes, 343 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:15,320 Speaker 1: they have they they have to work cases that are 344 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:21,960 Speaker 1: technically let's see, how can I put it? It requires 345 00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:25,439 Speaker 1: a technician to be on their toes, all right, because 346 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,719 Speaker 1: they do have a certain volume and tempo that they 347 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 1: work at. So whoever's in charge of it was in 348 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:38,159 Speaker 1: fact appointed by an elected sheriff, all right, who is 349 00:23:38,359 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 1: a politician, all right, And that's ultimately who's making the 350 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:48,200 Speaker 1: decisions here. That's why you know, I alluded to Harry 351 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:53,760 Speaker 1: Truman about taking responsibility for it, and you know, for 352 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:58,320 Speaker 1: all of his comments, I have yet to hear a 353 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:04,960 Speaker 1: comment about personal responsibility. You know, at best, maybe he has, 354 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,600 Speaker 1: but so much stuff has been said, or he has 355 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:13,600 Speaker 1: said so many things that is I don't know. It's 356 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,200 Speaker 1: it's troubling because I don't know what else has been missed. 357 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: And when I think about the blood at the door, 358 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:25,200 Speaker 1: one of the things I'm I'm concerned with is directionality 359 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 1: of the blood as far as does it actually lead somewhere. 360 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,760 Speaker 1: And to this point, we don't have a lot of 361 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 1: data relative to that. Because when you you see blood 362 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,959 Speaker 1: deposition at a threshold, you're thinking, okay, this could go 363 00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:49,920 Speaker 1: obviously one of two ways. It can lead away from 364 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: the house or it can go back into the house. 365 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,440 Speaker 1: And I think that that's one of the one of 366 00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:02,920 Speaker 1: the things you have to consider here. What was what 367 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,640 Speaker 1: was the direction that the blood would take you in 368 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: You're thinking about is there deposition leading away from the door, 369 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:17,159 Speaker 1: maybe to the driveway or to the roadway where a 370 00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: car may have been parked and she could be spirited 371 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:26,159 Speaker 1: away in there. Or was this blood deposition indicative of 372 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:29,480 Speaker 1: something that happened at the doorway, like if she opened 373 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 1: that door, was she struck in the face at that 374 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,960 Speaker 1: immediate time? And I got to tell you this looking 375 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,480 Speaker 1: at this, and also there's been some comment and I'd 376 00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: like to know kind of dig into this a wee bit. 377 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:49,399 Speaker 1: With that blood deposition, You've got these kind of large 378 00:25:49,520 --> 00:25:55,920 Speaker 1: satellite blood drops, and that's gravitational impact blood, like it's 379 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: free falling through the air, like you have a bloody nose, 380 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:05,879 Speaker 1: you've got a busted lip. But contained in between the 381 00:26:05,960 --> 00:26:09,919 Speaker 1: big droplets, you've got these really tiny, almost histamin like 382 00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:17,720 Speaker 1: blood deposition, and that is indicative of expiated blood. And 383 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:21,960 Speaker 1: that's somebody that is, you know, blowing out like that 384 00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 1: as opposed to aspirated blood where you're you know, like 385 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:29,200 Speaker 1: this and it's going back down your throat, so you've 386 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:32,680 Speaker 1: got blood that is there. So that's that's a dynamic 387 00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 1: blood deposition. Was she picked up and just kind of 388 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,000 Speaker 1: lifted off the ground and either taken into the house 389 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: or taken down the driveway? Because you know, I think 390 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: some people are wondering, are there is there any indication 391 00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: that you might have bloody footprints? And how would a 392 00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: perpetrate her at the door avoid stepping in blood and 393 00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:06,359 Speaker 1: leaving a bloody footprint. Well, we don't know how much 394 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,520 Speaker 1: how much she has bled, you know, is that the 395 00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,560 Speaker 1: only focal area of blood deposition that they have? And 396 00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: then how much care was taken by whoever these perpetrators 397 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 1: are in this case that have removed her from her family. 398 00:27:24,960 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: I mean, my kids, my wife has had a bloody 399 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: nose and I've borne witness to it. I've you know, 400 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:35,439 Speaker 1: and i haven't stepped in their blood. I'm aware of it. 401 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:41,640 Speaker 2: Joe, Could you determine how long that blood had been 402 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 2: in that place, because what if that blood came from 403 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 2: Nancy Guthrie a week before, you know, she just had 404 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:53,760 Speaker 2: a little slip and fall, bumped her head and knogging 405 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,119 Speaker 2: or whatever, and some blade came out, and could you 406 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,160 Speaker 2: tell if it was a week or two old as opposed. 407 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,520 Speaker 1: To I think, yeah, that's an excellent question, Dave, Thanks 408 00:28:01,520 --> 00:28:06,600 Speaker 1: for asking that. I think that with dried blood in particular. 409 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: And keep in mind also as you well know that 410 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:13,800 Speaker 1: area out there, it's like being in a convection of 411 00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:17,639 Speaker 1: and in the summer certainly, but you have to admit 412 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,399 Speaker 1: very low humidity. So that's that's that's going to impact 413 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,920 Speaker 1: the progression of changes in blood. Once it's left the body, 414 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,800 Speaker 1: it's deposited on an area, it actually speeds up in 415 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:36,439 Speaker 1: that environment. Here's why the absence of moisture in the 416 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:42,200 Speaker 1: air is going to promote this blood to flake. You'll 417 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,480 Speaker 1: see it. And if any of you guys at home 418 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:47,080 Speaker 1: have ever you know you've been clean up around your bathroom. 419 00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:49,959 Speaker 1: Generally happens in bathroom. You'll find a spot of blood. 420 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: You'll first off, you'll look at it and you'll think 421 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,120 Speaker 1: what is that and you say, oh, oh, my lord, 422 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 1: that's blood because it turns darker. Now you everybody's aware 423 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: that you know, when you bleed, it's kind of a 424 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:07,520 Speaker 1: bright red color. It's got to I don't know, it 425 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: appears to almost have life to it, if you will. 426 00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: That's kind of a ridiculous statement, but you'll see it there, 427 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: and it's kind of brilliantly red when you look at 428 00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:21,280 Speaker 1: that deposition. And again, I am basing this solely upon 429 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: this image that's coming from Briannton, okay, because this is 430 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:30,200 Speaker 1: not like a high quality crime scene photo all right, 431 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: that's going to be very specific with scale and lighting 432 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: and all this kind of thing. That blood just does 433 00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:43,320 Speaker 1: not marry up with being like weeks old. Boden I 434 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,960 Speaker 1: think even made a comment and this is kind of interesting. 435 00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,200 Speaker 1: This blood to him had the appearance of having been 436 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,480 Speaker 1: aer rated, and that means that it's kind of there's 437 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:01,000 Speaker 1: this when blood is coming out of a highly oxygenated 438 00:30:01,040 --> 00:30:05,640 Speaker 1: area and it's being deposited onto a surface, it'll almost 439 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:08,560 Speaker 1: have this kind of clear bubble like appearance to it. 440 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:11,360 Speaker 1: Whereas and it makes sense, let's say you get a 441 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,960 Speaker 1: cut on your forearm, all right, or a cut on 442 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: your hand in your dripping blood, that blood does not 443 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,239 Speaker 1: look like the same kind of blood comes out of 444 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,600 Speaker 1: the nasal faarnecks area, okay, because it's oxygen rich, you're 445 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,480 Speaker 1: kind of blowing it out. It's kind of like creating bubbles, 446 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 1: you know, that sort of thing. It's not like it's 447 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:33,520 Speaker 1: it's not the same. It's like the kind of viscous 448 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: blood that you get if you have a cut in 449 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: it's free falling. So again, directionality, the nature of the deposition. 450 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 1: What does it tell us? I think about movement of 451 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: Missus Guthrie And we can say that it is Missus 452 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 1: Guthrie because they have in fact, we know now that 453 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 1: they've tested it and they've said that it's hers. So 454 00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:01,520 Speaker 1: what can you take away from that? And you know, 455 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: the blood reveals The blood reveals a lot for us, 456 00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: I think, because therein it encapsulates all kinds of evidentiary 457 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 1: It has all manner of evidentiary value. You know, we 458 00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:21,040 Speaker 1: can look at the dynamics of the flow, the dynamics 459 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,760 Speaker 1: of the deposition. We can determine what type of blood 460 00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:27,480 Speaker 1: it is. We can rule out animals, we can rule 461 00:31:27,520 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: out other people, we can say that it is this 462 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:36,120 Speaker 1: literally blood typing. And then you know, you've got the 463 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:40,720 Speaker 1: big consideration with DNA. And there's a lot of kind 464 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,240 Speaker 1: of backchatter going on right now as you and I 465 00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: are chatting Dave about commingling of DNA, and this is 466 00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 1: going to be a big issue. I don't think that 467 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: it necessarily has so much to do with the blood here, 468 00:31:55,880 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: but there's there's so much. There are so many dynamics 469 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,600 Speaker 1: working with this case as far as molecular evidence goes, 470 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: that trying to get this thing unspooled, if you will, 471 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,480 Speaker 1: is going to be uh uh, it's going to be 472 00:32:12,480 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 1: the task of a titan. You're You're really gonna have 473 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 1: to people have to have people that are on point 474 00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:24,080 Speaker 1: with this with every every step of the way. That's why, 475 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 1: going back to earlier comments about seeing security, Dave, it 476 00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,920 Speaker 1: is those little things in the end that that tear 477 00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: us to pieces. It's uh, it's the little foxes that 478 00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 1: spoiled the mind. 479 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:54,280 Speaker 2: M Dave. 480 00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:57,440 Speaker 1: There has been a number that has been floated, and 481 00:32:57,480 --> 00:32:59,440 Speaker 1: I really need you to help me get my mind 482 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,600 Speaker 1: around there and how we kind of arrived on this number. 483 00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:14,320 Speaker 1: It is the idea that whoever entered into Missus Guthrie's 484 00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:21,000 Speaker 1: house may have been in there for I don't know 485 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,480 Speaker 1: their ballparking a like at forty minutes this sort of thing. 486 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,320 Speaker 1: Can you kind of explain the genesis of this. You're 487 00:33:28,360 --> 00:33:31,440 Speaker 1: so great at timelines, which I am not. It's one 488 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:36,120 Speaker 1: of my big weaknesses. But it doesn't have to be specific. 489 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,360 Speaker 1: But could you kind of frame that out for me, 490 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: because that's a very specific number, you know. 491 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 2: I think it's a I think it's a bad number. 492 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 2: Actually really yeah, Okay, there, the number is forty one 493 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:55,560 Speaker 2: minutes that we allegedly supposedly have at least one kidnapper 494 00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,320 Speaker 2: inside the house for forty one minutes. That number is 495 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 2: not pulled out of thin air. It is based on 496 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:07,360 Speaker 2: the one forty seven am when the doorbell camera disconnects. 497 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:11,120 Speaker 2: The next camera out front that happened at one forty 498 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 2: seven am. The next one we have the next time 499 00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:22,000 Speaker 2: is two twenty eight am, when Nancy Guthrie her pacemaker 500 00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:28,239 Speaker 2: is no longer connecting to the Apple Watch. So that's 501 00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 2: where the forty one minutes come from one forty seven 502 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,359 Speaker 2: am to two twenty eight am. And I'm looking at 503 00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:39,879 Speaker 2: it and saying, Okay, I understand the forty one minutes, Joe, 504 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: But I think what it really does is it doesn't 505 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 2: It gets us jammed into a time frame here, but 506 00:34:52,280 --> 00:34:55,319 Speaker 2: we don't know that Nancy Guthrie was removed from the 507 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,960 Speaker 2: house at two twenty eight am. We only know that 508 00:34:59,120 --> 00:35:03,080 Speaker 2: she was twenty five feet away from her Apple Watch 509 00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,799 Speaker 2: at the time. We do know the Apple Watch was 510 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,319 Speaker 2: left behind in the home, Okay, we do know that 511 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,480 Speaker 2: it was right there where it always was, next to 512 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,440 Speaker 2: her bed. But the only thing we know is that 513 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,640 Speaker 2: at two twenty eight am, she was farther than twenty 514 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:21,759 Speaker 2: feet away and did not connect back. That's what we know. 515 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 2: So to think that there was forty one minutes, dude, 516 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:33,279 Speaker 2: could have been hours. We don't know, And at this 517 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:38,760 Speaker 2: point we know what we don't know is as important 518 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,960 Speaker 2: as what we do know. So saying that there was 519 00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:46,279 Speaker 2: at least forty one minutes, I'll go with that, But 520 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:50,520 Speaker 2: I don't think there's any indication you know, that she 521 00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:53,440 Speaker 2: left the house at two twenty eight am. I am 522 00:35:53,480 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 2: concerned about a number of things that I wanted to 523 00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 2: ask you about, though, Joe. Yeah, and again we're back 524 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,680 Speaker 2: to this the crime scene which was not shut down. 525 00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:04,440 Speaker 2: In a lot of times when you and I Aren 526 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:07,080 Speaker 2: Will used Nancy Show as a prime example. On crime 527 00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:13,080 Speaker 2: stories with Nancy Grace, we oftentimes approach a subject or 528 00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:18,000 Speaker 2: a discussion, well, the defense will tear this up for 529 00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,880 Speaker 2: these reasons, and we're not doing that. We're trying to 530 00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 2: figure out where is Nancy Guthrie and how are we 531 00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:26,520 Speaker 2: going to find her and why are we not getting 532 00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:30,840 Speaker 2: this information? And sometimes that does get into the discussion, 533 00:36:30,880 --> 00:36:35,680 Speaker 2: but there's always well, my gosh, Joe, common sense dictates 534 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: that this scene, this crime scene was called a crime 535 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:44,160 Speaker 2: scene early they being investigators, were there for twenty hours 536 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,560 Speaker 2: and then they gave it back to the family. There 537 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 2: was no reason to do that because no family was 538 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 2: staying there. We had Savannah Guthrie came home, came to town, 539 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:57,600 Speaker 2: but she stayed at Annie's house for the first several days. 540 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,759 Speaker 2: The home was empty. There was nobody at Nancy Guthrie's home. 541 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:03,120 Speaker 1: Joe. 542 00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,520 Speaker 2: We know that police had they didn't have any crime 543 00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:09,000 Speaker 2: tape up. We don't even know if they were watching 544 00:37:09,080 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: it at that point. So anything could have happened in 545 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:17,080 Speaker 2: that house that would change what possibly happened to Nancy Guthrie. 546 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:21,200 Speaker 2: So just dealing with what we actually know, let's say 547 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,200 Speaker 2: there's let's use forty minutes, okay, Joe, let's stay on that. 548 00:37:24,520 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 2: In forty minutes time, you've got at least two people 549 00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 2: up and around that house, Nancy Guthrie and her kidnapper. 550 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 2: We know that because Nancy's no longer here and she 551 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,360 Speaker 2: didn't leave on her own. We have a clumsy, bungling 552 00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:40,640 Speaker 2: idiot at the front door who's trying to cover up 553 00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 2: the lens with weeds. Still boggles my mind. That you 554 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:46,840 Speaker 2: would go to the trouble to cover yourself with multiple 555 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,799 Speaker 2: you know, gloves on your hands and face mask and 556 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,239 Speaker 2: everything else, and somehow you didn't think about, I need 557 00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,719 Speaker 2: to cover the lens, you know, pulling weeds to do that. 558 00:37:57,440 --> 00:38:02,400 Speaker 2: It's crazy. But once that individual is in the house, Joe, 559 00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 2: every step they take, every step they take is going 560 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,920 Speaker 2: to leave a mark. And I'm assuming, probably wrongly, but 561 00:38:11,960 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 2: I know that my feet carry dirt. You know, my 562 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 2: shoes carry dirt. They have little markings on the inside 563 00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,279 Speaker 2: that covers dirt and everything else I've stepped in. We've 564 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:25,600 Speaker 2: got this individual walking up the driveway and assuming once 565 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:29,479 Speaker 2: he or she takes the camera off the mount goes 566 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,960 Speaker 2: into the house. We don't know if there was you know, 567 00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:35,040 Speaker 2: we don't know what transpired to get in the house. 568 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,000 Speaker 2: We haven't seen that yet. But isn't that individual going 569 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:43,120 Speaker 2: to leave at least footprints behind in that home from 570 00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,240 Speaker 2: entering in that doorway right there. 571 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, glad you asked that, because most people, I think, 572 00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,520 Speaker 1: when you think of footprints, people always think, okay, they 573 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:58,520 Speaker 1: walk through blood, they walk through mud. And for my friends, 574 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:01,360 Speaker 1: my colleagues at work up nor you know, usually footprints 575 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 1: in the snow, which always is amazing to me. How 576 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: they lift prints out of the snow. That's an entirely 577 00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 1: different conversation. But and they can do it, and they're 578 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: good at it. But here's here's what you don't think. 579 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:20,720 Speaker 1: For those of you that have never been out west 580 00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:24,279 Speaker 1: and particularly in this environment, uh, if you don't live 581 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:31,240 Speaker 1: in the Southwest, the one thing it is is dusty. Okay. 582 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 1: That's one thing that old Western movies get right about 583 00:39:36,160 --> 00:39:40,000 Speaker 1: about the uh you know that environment out there where 584 00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,160 Speaker 1: you see swirls of dust that are kind of you know, uh, 585 00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:48,160 Speaker 1: vortexing across the camera. You know, it's the wind blows 586 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 1: and that sort of thing there is that there is 587 00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:54,960 Speaker 1: issues with dust a lot of sand, right, so that 588 00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:59,240 Speaker 1: that transfers to the soles of your feet. Just because 589 00:39:59,239 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: it transfers to the soles of your feet, all right, 590 00:40:01,960 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: doesn't mean that when somebody steps on the ground and 591 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:09,000 Speaker 1: walks away. You know, let's just say for you, anybody 592 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,560 Speaker 1: out there, if you think about your heel contacting the 593 00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: ground and you kind of a normal step, now you 594 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:16,759 Speaker 1: can be a toe walker. But let's just say a 595 00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,280 Speaker 1: regular person heel striker, and they roll their foot across 596 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,040 Speaker 1: the surface of the ground and then finish on the 597 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: tip of their toe. All right, there is going to 598 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: be a very specific uh uh print that has been 599 00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:36,080 Speaker 1: left behind. And if you have enough dust on the 600 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:41,920 Speaker 1: sole of your shoe, it will replicate. It's like a 601 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:46,400 Speaker 1: negative image of your of the soles of your feet, 602 00:40:46,440 --> 00:40:48,719 Speaker 1: all right. And so if you're wearing something has tread 603 00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 1: patterns and the one the one person there's there's a 604 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:56,480 Speaker 1: capture of an image. And I got to tell you 605 00:40:56,520 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: that the shoes that there that this visual where I 606 00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:02,919 Speaker 1: can visualize them, where I can see them, they look 607 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,719 Speaker 1: like athletic shoes. So if they're athletic shoes, that means 608 00:41:06,719 --> 00:41:11,080 Speaker 1: that they're going to have a specific tread pattern. Okay, Well, 609 00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,759 Speaker 1: what we would do in that case is do an 610 00:41:15,840 --> 00:41:21,280 Speaker 1: electrostatic lift. And so if we suspect like an area 611 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:26,000 Speaker 1: around a door in particular, let's say just inside the doorway. 612 00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:29,960 Speaker 1: If you're coming in through a garage and you're entering 613 00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: in through the threshold, coming onto like a ceramic tile 614 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:38,040 Speaker 1: surface or hardwood surface, there is a film that we 615 00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:42,839 Speaker 1: lay down and it's generally like my lare and it's 616 00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:49,760 Speaker 1: got it's attached to a device that generates an electrostatic 617 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: charge and it's it works based on magnetism. So when 618 00:41:56,320 --> 00:42:01,040 Speaker 1: that sheet is placed over that specific area, Dave, and 619 00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: that charge is applied to it, it grabs that dust 620 00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:09,120 Speaker 1: in in the shape or what is left behind. I'm 621 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:11,840 Speaker 1: trying to frame this so everybody wh understands the tread 622 00:42:11,880 --> 00:42:14,399 Speaker 1: pattern that's left behind and you carefully lift it up 623 00:42:14,440 --> 00:42:17,279 Speaker 1: and that thing is attached to that sheet. So you 624 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,120 Speaker 1: don't just to have you don't simply have to have 625 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:25,600 Speaker 1: say like trace contact from blood where it's going to, 626 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:29,040 Speaker 1: you know, enter on. Say you transfer from the soles 627 00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:36,000 Speaker 1: of your shoes onto the receiving underlying surface. It can 628 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:38,799 Speaker 1: be dust that this is that this you know, takes 629 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:45,960 Speaker 1: place in and those things are easily eradicated. Now you 630 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: run into a problem obviously, because think about the dynamics 631 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:56,800 Speaker 1: of of of missus Guthrie's home. Okay, when her kids 632 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,600 Speaker 1: show up, you know, when they're first you know, alerted 633 00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:04,840 Speaker 1: nation show up. Well, we're talking about mama, right, Well, 634 00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: you're frantically looking for moment, you're not thinking about where 635 00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:14,399 Speaker 1: you're stepping, all right, So any footprints are not going 636 00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: to look like her. Mama's footprints. The sun in law's 637 00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:21,359 Speaker 1: footprints are certainly not going to look like mama's footprints. 638 00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:23,520 Speaker 1: And I doubt they took their shoes off before they 639 00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,800 Speaker 1: came to the house, particularly if they're in a frenzy. 640 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,080 Speaker 1: You know, some people have a thing about shoes in 641 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:29,560 Speaker 1: the house. You know, I got to take shoes off 642 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: the door, that sort of thing. But if you're looking 643 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:33,440 Speaker 1: for mama she's missing, you're not thinking I'm going to 644 00:43:33,520 --> 00:43:36,760 Speaker 1: set my shoes aside. Well, they will have specific patterns 645 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 1: that they may have tracked in. Then you're going to 646 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:43,920 Speaker 1: have first responders that come out there, the PD for instance, 647 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,800 Speaker 1: They're going to track through there. So it's a matter 648 00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,440 Speaker 1: of collecting as many footprint samples as you can with 649 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:55,040 Speaker 1: this environment and then beginning to eliminate kind of like 650 00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,719 Speaker 1: DNA wink wink, no, no, you know, what is a 651 00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,480 Speaker 1: fible and what's not. You know, they they might go 652 00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:05,680 Speaker 1: back to I don't know, they might go back to 653 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,879 Speaker 1: the daughter and the sudden law say, hey, what kind 654 00:44:09,880 --> 00:44:11,800 Speaker 1: of shoes were you wearing when you walked in the house? 655 00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:12,480 Speaker 2: Okay? 656 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,480 Speaker 1: And are these the same kind of shoes that you 657 00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:16,919 Speaker 1: are how often do you wear them? Those sorts of things? 658 00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:20,359 Speaker 1: And then you've got you know, your cops. Well they 659 00:44:20,440 --> 00:44:23,640 Speaker 1: might be wearing they might have standard issue boots that 660 00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:27,360 Speaker 1: they wear, all right, and they really stand out. I 661 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,399 Speaker 1: wore a very specific type I always wore boots. And 662 00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 1: I'm not going to say the manufacturer because they're not 663 00:44:35,040 --> 00:44:40,880 Speaker 1: paying any damn money, but there were very specific boots 664 00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,399 Speaker 1: that I would wear that are commonly used by first 665 00:44:43,440 --> 00:44:50,600 Speaker 1: responders and law enforcement. And that soul pattern is distinctive. Okay, Well, 666 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,680 Speaker 1: if you bring somebody in that's wearing, say, workout clothing 667 00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 1: or you know, track shoes or you know, what are 668 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 1: athletic shoes? How do these fit into this environment? You 669 00:45:03,719 --> 00:45:07,200 Speaker 1: know where did they come from? And here's kind of 670 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:13,399 Speaker 1: even a more granular question, when were the last time 671 00:45:13,480 --> 00:45:17,160 Speaker 1: her floors were cleaned? Now that seems kind of passe, 672 00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:22,000 Speaker 1: but let's just say that missus gut Thrie liked clean house. Okay, well, 673 00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: does she you know, kind of nominally do it herself, 674 00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:27,359 Speaker 1: because I know that she has trouble kind of ambulating, 675 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 1: but some people can't get past that. You know, if 676 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:31,160 Speaker 1: you've been cleaning your house for years and years, it's 677 00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:33,759 Speaker 1: something you kind of still like to do. Or does 678 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,960 Speaker 1: she have housekeeper that comes in on a regular basis. 679 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,960 Speaker 1: If she does have a housekeeper that comes in on 680 00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 1: a regular basis, how what does regular basis mean? Were 681 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,440 Speaker 1: the floors cleaned the day before, three days before or 682 00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,520 Speaker 1: have they never been cleaned? I don't have an answer 683 00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:52,760 Speaker 1: to that question. So just the tracking, just the tracking 684 00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 1: of any kind of footprints that are going through this 685 00:45:56,719 --> 00:46:00,840 Speaker 1: house are is significant. Now if you've got blood deposition 686 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:06,640 Speaker 1: that's being transferred by feet, okay, that puts you onto 687 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,719 Speaker 1: a whole other level here, because now you can enter 688 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:15,120 Speaker 1: into things like blue star and luminol, where you can 689 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:17,759 Speaker 1: you know, get the stuff to luminous and you can 690 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,960 Speaker 1: actually follow a pattern at one of the creepiest things 691 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:23,719 Speaker 1: I think I've ever seen. To me, it always it 692 00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:26,400 Speaker 1: always had a creep factor to me. Uh, when I 693 00:46:26,480 --> 00:46:29,880 Speaker 1: was at a scene and they were using luminescence and 694 00:46:29,920 --> 00:46:32,759 Speaker 1: you can see, you know, somebody's tracked through blood and 695 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:36,239 Speaker 1: you can actually see the direction they're they're walking. It's 696 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,000 Speaker 1: it's different than seeing bloody footprints. To me, there's something 697 00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:42,920 Speaker 1: about that luminescence that's that's really you know, since a 698 00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,719 Speaker 1: chill up my spine for whatever reason, you never know, 699 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,080 Speaker 1: you know, you you walk through a world of that 700 00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:55,719 Speaker 1: seems like peace, a place that is probably held a 701 00:46:55,760 --> 00:47:00,640 Speaker 1: lot of joy over the years, where she entertained her family, 702 00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:11,000 Speaker 1: her grandbabies coming in and out, meals and if you 703 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:18,200 Speaker 1: could look back through time and see it's really tragic 704 00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:23,640 Speaker 1: because now she's missing. That anchor that held this family 705 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:28,080 Speaker 1: together is gone, like we said earlier, like a vapor 706 00:47:28,920 --> 00:47:35,560 Speaker 1: has disappeared. This is going to continue. This is only 707 00:47:35,640 --> 00:47:43,800 Speaker 1: part one. I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is Bodybags.