1 00:00:15,066 --> 00:00:26,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I'm Dana Goodyear. Lost Hills is back with another 2 00:00:26,716 --> 00:00:30,376 Speaker 1: Season 2 bonus episode. This one comes courtesy of our 3 00:00:30,416 --> 00:00:32,836 Speaker 1: tip line, where a few months ago, I got the 4 00:00:32,856 --> 00:00:35,296 Speaker 1: kind of email from a stranger that I live for. 5 00:00:36,496 --> 00:00:40,116 Speaker 1: Will there be more episodes regarding Fred Raylor? the sender asked. 6 00:00:41,026 --> 00:00:44,816 Speaker 1: I worked with Jean the day she drowned. Jean as 7 00:00:44,896 --> 00:00:48,916 Speaker 1: in Jean Raylor, Fred's first wife, the mother of his daughters, 8 00:00:48,976 --> 00:00:52,736 Speaker 1: Heidi and Kirsten. I'd been searching for someone who could 9 00:00:52,836 --> 00:00:58,236 Speaker 1: shed light on that day, Friday, October 15th, 1976, when Jean, 10 00:00:58,396 --> 00:01:01,796 Speaker 1: a flight attendant for United, flew from LAX to Chicago 11 00:01:01,876 --> 00:01:05,576 Speaker 1: O'Hare and back, went home to Malibu, got in the 12 00:01:05,616 --> 00:01:10,136 Speaker 1: hot tub with Fred to unwind, and then somehow ended 13 00:01:10,196 --> 00:01:15,286 Speaker 1: up drowning. Her death wasn't investigated as a homicide. Until 14 00:01:15,726 --> 00:01:20,066 Speaker 1: Fred's second wife, Verna, and his eight-year-old stepson, Doug, drowned 15 00:01:20,166 --> 00:01:24,326 Speaker 1: under equally suspicious circumstances less than five years later. 16 00:01:25,246 --> 00:01:29,156 Speaker 2: My name's Karen McClain, and I was a flight attendant 17 00:01:29,236 --> 00:01:30,936 Speaker 2: for United Airlines. 18 00:01:32,156 --> 00:01:35,256 Speaker 1: Karen McClain's the one that wrote that letter. She told 19 00:01:35,296 --> 00:01:37,956 Speaker 1: me she'd stumbled on the podcast totally by accident. 20 00:01:38,976 --> 00:01:42,046 Speaker 2: My daughter put Spotify on my phone, and I am 21 00:01:42,066 --> 00:01:46,806 Speaker 2: so confused. lacking in technology and stuff. And I was 22 00:01:46,886 --> 00:01:50,806 Speaker 2: just kind of browsing through, and I came across this, 23 00:01:50,886 --> 00:01:53,446 Speaker 2: and I saw Verna and Doug, and I thought, I 24 00:01:53,496 --> 00:01:54,996 Speaker 2: wonder if this is about Jean. 25 00:01:56,176 --> 00:02:00,156 Speaker 1: Karen flew with Jean just twice, once the Sunday before 26 00:02:00,196 --> 00:02:03,956 Speaker 1: her drowning, and then on the very day she drowned. 27 00:02:04,916 --> 00:02:07,476 Speaker 2: We flew Chicago turns. It was when we were first 28 00:02:07,586 --> 00:02:10,826 Speaker 2: able to be moms, and we only worked two days 29 00:02:10,866 --> 00:02:14,436 Speaker 2: a week, and we were home every night. So it 30 00:02:14,476 --> 00:02:17,706 Speaker 2: was a great way to be a mom and still 31 00:02:17,716 --> 00:02:21,366 Speaker 2: have a job. But we'd check in like at 6.45 32 00:02:21,366 --> 00:02:25,066 Speaker 2: in the morning and fly to Chicago at 7.45, sit 33 00:02:25,106 --> 00:02:27,186 Speaker 2: there for a couple hours, and then fly back the 34 00:02:27,226 --> 00:02:31,066 Speaker 2: same day. So we were gone for about 12 hours. 35 00:02:32,146 --> 00:02:35,426 Speaker 2: And then we'd get on the tram, go over to 36 00:02:35,466 --> 00:02:37,946 Speaker 2: the parking lot, and go home. I normally got home 37 00:02:37,986 --> 00:02:38,606 Speaker 2: about 7.30 at night. 38 00:02:38,666 --> 00:02:38,806 Speaker 3: So.... 39 00:02:42,616 --> 00:02:45,316 Speaker 2: You know, it was just a long day. Most of 40 00:02:45,416 --> 00:02:49,536 Speaker 2: us were young moms that did the Chicago turns. It 41 00:02:49,596 --> 00:02:53,896 Speaker 2: was pretty much... I don't remember anybody that wasn't a mom, 42 00:02:54,336 --> 00:02:55,716 Speaker 2: you know, flying those trips. 43 00:02:57,276 --> 00:03:01,086 Speaker 1: Those flights, Flight 100 from LAX to Chicago and Flight 44 00:03:01,086 --> 00:03:04,606 Speaker 1: 111 from Chicago back to LAX, were always packed. 45 00:03:05,726 --> 00:03:09,886 Speaker 2: It was mostly businessmen. At that time, you know, it 46 00:03:09,906 --> 00:03:10,486 Speaker 2: was before. 47 00:03:11,806 --> 00:03:16,296 Speaker 2: Computers. So every, you know, there was a lot of 48 00:03:16,426 --> 00:03:20,116 Speaker 2: business travel. In fact, in the 60s, we had trips 49 00:03:20,176 --> 00:03:24,996 Speaker 2: that were just primarily men from Chicago to Newark, and 50 00:03:25,076 --> 00:03:28,836 Speaker 2: they were all men trips. And United catered to them. 51 00:03:28,896 --> 00:03:32,236 Speaker 2: They'd have all these little gifts that they'd give all 52 00:03:32,276 --> 00:03:38,126 Speaker 2: these men and stuff. But it was basically businessmen that 53 00:03:38,206 --> 00:03:41,616 Speaker 2: traveled back and forth all the time. in first class. 54 00:03:43,216 --> 00:03:46,456 Speaker 1: Karen remembers that the Sunday before Jean drowned, Jean was 55 00:03:46,526 --> 00:03:49,166 Speaker 1: working in coach. It was the first time they'd met, 56 00:03:49,486 --> 00:03:51,986 Speaker 1: and they started to chat. And Karen got a little 57 00:03:52,026 --> 00:03:53,466 Speaker 1: window into Jean's world. 58 00:03:54,606 --> 00:03:58,716 Speaker 2: She was working the lower deck galley on a 747. 59 00:03:58,716 --> 00:04:00,956 Speaker 2: And I went down, first time I had ever talked 60 00:04:00,996 --> 00:04:03,316 Speaker 2: to her, and I went down for a break, and 61 00:04:03,356 --> 00:04:05,056 Speaker 2: we were just talking about our kids. 62 00:04:06,486 --> 00:04:09,706 Speaker 1: At the time, Jean and Fred's older daughter, Heidi, was six, 63 00:04:09,986 --> 00:04:13,266 Speaker 1: and Kirsten was two. The family was living on Calpine 64 00:04:13,306 --> 00:04:16,406 Speaker 1: Drive in Malibu, and there was a lot going on. 65 00:04:17,326 --> 00:04:19,946 Speaker 1: Jean was telling friends she was madly in love with 66 00:04:20,106 --> 00:04:25,206 Speaker 1: Fred's friend, Dick Valthoen, and that she was miserable with Fred, 67 00:04:26,326 --> 00:04:28,566 Speaker 1: and that Fred had threatened to kill her if he 68 00:04:28,686 --> 00:04:33,916 Speaker 1: ever caught her cheating. Jean was stretched thin. falling headlong 69 00:04:33,956 --> 00:04:38,696 Speaker 1: into a radical self-improvement group called Lifespring, rapidly losing weight, 70 00:04:39,356 --> 00:04:43,766 Speaker 1: manically planning her future without Fred, working 12-hour days for 71 00:04:43,826 --> 00:04:48,026 Speaker 1: United Airlines, and in the gaps, being mom to two 72 00:04:48,066 --> 00:04:52,676 Speaker 1: young girls. She didn't say any of this to Karen, 73 00:04:53,296 --> 00:04:55,236 Speaker 1: but she did ask her for some advice. 74 00:04:56,516 --> 00:04:59,736 Speaker 2: And she said that Heidi was going to have her 75 00:04:59,776 --> 00:05:02,936 Speaker 2: tonsils taken out the following Friday. And she said, do 76 00:05:02,956 --> 00:05:05,576 Speaker 2: you think I should take the day off? And I said, well, 77 00:05:05,616 --> 00:05:07,166 Speaker 2: if it were my daughter, I would. 78 00:05:08,646 --> 00:05:12,666 Speaker 1: But Jean didn't take Karen's advice. On Friday, she showed 79 00:05:12,706 --> 00:05:14,946 Speaker 1: up for work to fly the Chicago turn again. 80 00:05:16,046 --> 00:05:19,326 Speaker 2: And Friday came, and she was there. And I said, 81 00:05:19,346 --> 00:05:21,426 Speaker 2: I thought Heidi was getting her tonsils out. 82 00:05:22,876 --> 00:05:26,366 Speaker 1: This time, Jean was working in the first-class galley. preparing 83 00:05:26,406 --> 00:05:30,786 Speaker 1: multi-course meals for a couple dozen passengers. She was acting normal, 84 00:05:30,926 --> 00:05:33,906 Speaker 1: according to testimony later given by her supervisor on the flight. 85 00:05:34,586 --> 00:05:36,646 Speaker 1: But the fact that Jean was there at all struck 86 00:05:36,686 --> 00:05:37,796 Speaker 1: Karen as strange. 87 00:05:39,136 --> 00:05:41,936 Speaker 2: To be a mom of a six-year-old in a hospital, 88 00:05:42,016 --> 00:05:46,236 Speaker 2: I think that I would have been more active, you know, 89 00:05:46,316 --> 00:05:50,636 Speaker 2: or concerned. And she didn't seem to be that, now 90 00:05:50,676 --> 00:05:54,326 Speaker 2: that I think of it. She was kind of distant. 91 00:05:56,156 --> 00:05:58,406 Speaker 2: And she said, well, Fred was taking care of it. 92 00:06:00,236 --> 00:06:03,806 Speaker 1: Fred was taking care of it. He had it handled. 93 00:06:04,746 --> 00:06:12,426 Speaker 1: That was his style. Organized, meticulous, controlling. Later on, Jean's 94 00:06:12,486 --> 00:06:16,286 Speaker 1: fellow stewardesses and many of her friends would question what 95 00:06:16,416 --> 00:06:19,936 Speaker 1: Fred was taking care of and what his motives were. 96 00:06:35,696 --> 00:06:38,876 Speaker 1: Picture Jean. When she met Fred, she was in her 97 00:06:38,916 --> 00:06:42,496 Speaker 1: late 20s, unmarried. According to one of her friends, she 98 00:06:42,536 --> 00:06:45,576 Speaker 1: was starting to wonder if she would get married. She 99 00:06:45,616 --> 00:06:51,176 Speaker 1: was a knockout. Dark hair, slim, athletic frame, fun-loving, if 100 00:06:51,216 --> 00:06:54,836 Speaker 1: a bit high-strung. She would probably have been wearing a 101 00:06:54,956 --> 00:06:58,516 Speaker 1: blue flower-patterned muumuu when she met her future husband on 102 00:06:58,576 --> 00:07:01,736 Speaker 1: his way back from Hawaii. That was the uniform for 103 00:07:01,796 --> 00:07:04,976 Speaker 1: United's Honolulu route, which Jean was working at the time. 104 00:07:06,306 --> 00:07:10,106 Speaker 1: Back then, the airlines nakedly catered to male business travelers, 105 00:07:10,626 --> 00:07:13,446 Speaker 1: selling the attentive women on the flight as one of 106 00:07:13,486 --> 00:07:17,926 Speaker 1: the attractions of air travel. On Southwest, the Stortus uniform 107 00:07:18,096 --> 00:07:21,936 Speaker 1: was hot pants and go-go boots. And pretty much across 108 00:07:21,956 --> 00:07:26,716 Speaker 1: the industry, the rules stipulated no wedding rings. Here's Karen 109 00:07:26,756 --> 00:07:27,376 Speaker 1: McLean again. 110 00:07:28,396 --> 00:07:30,816 Speaker 2: When we first started flying, we couldn't be married and 111 00:07:30,856 --> 00:07:34,136 Speaker 2: we couldn't have kids. Well, you could have kids. They 112 00:07:34,156 --> 00:07:37,836 Speaker 2: would put them up for adoption. but you couldn't be married, 113 00:07:38,136 --> 00:07:41,796 Speaker 2: and you had to quit when you were 32. 114 00:07:41,836 --> 00:07:45,736 Speaker 1: Ironically, the profession was full of ambitious young women who 115 00:07:45,776 --> 00:07:49,746 Speaker 1: found freedom and independence, financial and otherwise, through working for 116 00:07:49,766 --> 00:07:56,046 Speaker 1: the airlines. This is Becky Sprecher. She started working for 117 00:07:56,086 --> 00:08:00,096 Speaker 1: Pan Am in 1972, two weeks after graduating from UNC 118 00:08:00,126 --> 00:08:00,736 Speaker 1: Chapel Hill. 119 00:08:01,776 --> 00:08:09,006 Speaker 3: Back then, women were just starting to delay marriage and 120 00:08:09,236 --> 00:08:12,816 Speaker 3: they were thinking about maybe going to medical school or 121 00:08:12,876 --> 00:08:17,016 Speaker 3: law school. The major careers that existed during those days, 122 00:08:17,076 --> 00:08:22,096 Speaker 3: of course, were being a secretary or being a nurse 123 00:08:22,276 --> 00:08:26,476 Speaker 3: or a teacher or a stewardess. We lived kind of 124 00:08:26,536 --> 00:08:32,736 Speaker 3: like little rich girls without the trust fund. We stayed 125 00:08:32,936 --> 00:08:38,996 Speaker 3: in intercontinental hotels, which were wonderful upscale hotels because Pan 126 00:08:39,116 --> 00:08:45,116 Speaker 3: Am owned intercontinental hotels. We were young. We were high spirited. 127 00:08:46,156 --> 00:08:54,016 Speaker 3: We had, I would say, the ideal prescription for a 128 00:08:54,236 --> 00:08:59,906 Speaker 3: pretty freewheeling lifestyle in the 70s. I mean, we had educations. 129 00:09:00,696 --> 00:09:03,596 Speaker 3: We had a job. We were making some money. We 130 00:09:03,616 --> 00:09:05,656 Speaker 3: could fly anywhere in the world we wanted to go 131 00:09:05,696 --> 00:09:07,916 Speaker 3: on a discount. And we had birth control. 132 00:09:09,496 --> 00:09:11,556 Speaker 1: Flying for the airlines was glamorous. 133 00:09:12,556 --> 00:09:20,966 Speaker 3: Well, back then, in the 1970s, famous people did fly commercially. 134 00:09:22,106 --> 00:09:26,546 Speaker 3: That's a big difference between then and now, because now 135 00:09:26,566 --> 00:09:28,246 Speaker 3: they have their own private aircraft. 136 00:09:29,946 --> 00:09:31,826 Speaker 1: Becky said a friend of hers on the L.A. to 137 00:09:31,866 --> 00:09:34,626 Speaker 1: Tahiti route had an unforgettable star sighting. 138 00:09:35,666 --> 00:09:38,266 Speaker 3: She reported for briefing in Papiete to come back to 139 00:09:38,306 --> 00:09:41,946 Speaker 3: Los Angeles. And they said, well, you have Marlon Brando 140 00:09:41,966 --> 00:09:49,016 Speaker 3: in first class. And he was married to a Tahitian actress. 141 00:09:49,916 --> 00:09:51,396 Speaker 2: And I think they had a child. 142 00:09:51,816 --> 00:09:54,796 Speaker 3: He had filmed Mutiny on the Bounty down there and 143 00:09:54,876 --> 00:09:57,496 Speaker 3: had met her. She was his love interest in the movie. 144 00:09:58,626 --> 00:10:02,936 Speaker 3: And he flew frequently on Pan Am to LA. So 145 00:10:03,896 --> 00:10:07,286 Speaker 3: she only had four people in the front. So when 146 00:10:07,586 --> 00:10:10,706 Speaker 3: they took off, she said, sent the other stewardess to 147 00:10:10,726 --> 00:10:13,926 Speaker 3: the back to help out back there because they had 148 00:10:13,946 --> 00:10:17,746 Speaker 3: a heavier load back there. And she was getting ready 149 00:10:17,856 --> 00:10:21,956 Speaker 3: to do eggs to order for the passengers. And the 150 00:10:21,996 --> 00:10:25,416 Speaker 3: next thing she knows, Mr. Brando comes into the galley 151 00:10:25,476 --> 00:10:27,936 Speaker 3: and said, well, I know how to scramble eggs. I'll 152 00:10:27,976 --> 00:10:31,466 Speaker 3: help with that. Which he did. And of course, the 153 00:10:31,506 --> 00:10:37,006 Speaker 3: passengers were delighted. And after the service was complete, he said, well, 154 00:10:37,026 --> 00:10:38,976 Speaker 3: why don't you sit down and chat? So she sits 155 00:10:39,036 --> 00:10:41,216 Speaker 3: down beside him. All of our famous people were always 156 00:10:41,276 --> 00:10:45,156 Speaker 3: in 1A. And she sits down beside him and he 157 00:10:45,196 --> 00:10:48,756 Speaker 3: gives her a chalet that he had on. And she 158 00:10:48,816 --> 00:10:53,756 Speaker 3: still has it, by the way. And he lit her cigarette. Now, 159 00:10:53,776 --> 00:10:55,596 Speaker 3: this was in the days when you could smoke on 160 00:10:55,636 --> 00:10:58,136 Speaker 3: the planes. And somebody took a picture of him, and 161 00:10:58,176 --> 00:11:00,716 Speaker 3: it's absolutely the cutest thing in the world. But that 162 00:11:00,776 --> 00:11:02,116 Speaker 3: kind of thing happened a lot. 163 00:11:03,396 --> 00:11:05,526 Speaker 1: Then there was a time Becky found herself on a 164 00:11:05,566 --> 00:11:06,126 Speaker 1: movie set. 165 00:11:07,346 --> 00:11:12,066 Speaker 3: I was flying with my roommate, and we had some 166 00:11:12,146 --> 00:11:16,686 Speaker 3: movie producers on the flight out of Los Angeles. They'd 167 00:11:16,706 --> 00:11:21,406 Speaker 3: come through Honolulu. They had to connect. And I said, well, 168 00:11:21,866 --> 00:11:24,706 Speaker 3: what are you guys doing? Well, we're making a movie 169 00:11:24,766 --> 00:11:31,946 Speaker 3: called that's being directed by Francis Ford Coppola. And I said, oh, okay, 170 00:11:32,026 --> 00:11:33,866 Speaker 3: you know, well, what is it? And they said, well, 171 00:11:33,906 --> 00:11:39,566 Speaker 3: it's based on Joseph Conrad's novel, Heart of Darkness. And 172 00:11:39,926 --> 00:11:43,526 Speaker 3: it was Apocalypse Now. And they invited us up to 173 00:11:43,546 --> 00:11:46,826 Speaker 3: the set, if you can imagine. It was supposed to 174 00:11:46,886 --> 00:11:56,856 Speaker 3: be Nha Trang. And this young actor, who had just arrived, 175 00:11:56,896 --> 00:11:59,846 Speaker 3: it was his first day on the set, we flew 176 00:11:59,986 --> 00:12:05,206 Speaker 3: up there with him, and it was Martin Sheen. And 177 00:12:06,666 --> 00:12:11,936 Speaker 3: I've never been on a movie set before or since, 178 00:12:12,076 --> 00:12:19,716 Speaker 3: but that was an incredibly educational experience, let's say. It 179 00:12:19,836 --> 00:12:24,726 Speaker 3: was a crazy kind of environment. And of course, we 180 00:12:24,806 --> 00:12:27,386 Speaker 3: all know that in the 70s, there was a lot 181 00:12:27,426 --> 00:12:30,486 Speaker 3: of cocaine and a lot of drugs on movie sets. 182 00:12:30,626 --> 00:12:32,476 Speaker 3: And this was no exception. 183 00:12:34,936 --> 00:12:38,016 Speaker 1: According to Becky, even though the airline industry trafficked in 184 00:12:38,096 --> 00:12:41,776 Speaker 1: stereotypes about women and catered to male clientele, it was 185 00:12:41,936 --> 00:12:44,036 Speaker 1: also a hotbed of second wave feminism. 186 00:12:44,066 --> 00:12:48,646 Speaker 3: It used to be that you could not be married 187 00:12:48,966 --> 00:12:52,686 Speaker 3: and fly. And they sued and they got that changed. 188 00:12:53,536 --> 00:12:56,976 Speaker 3: you couldn't have children and fly. So they sued and 189 00:12:57,016 --> 00:13:00,396 Speaker 3: that was changed. So I think that they were really 190 00:13:00,476 --> 00:13:04,436 Speaker 3: sort of trailblazing. And in a profession where you had 191 00:13:04,476 --> 00:13:07,266 Speaker 3: to be put on the scales and you were hired 192 00:13:07,286 --> 00:13:10,026 Speaker 3: for how you looked and you had to wear makeup 193 00:13:10,106 --> 00:13:16,046 Speaker 3: and all of that, it was a big contradiction. And 194 00:13:16,126 --> 00:13:19,426 Speaker 3: we were the most independent of women because we could 195 00:13:19,466 --> 00:13:21,796 Speaker 3: go anywhere in the world that we wanted to go. 196 00:13:22,706 --> 00:13:25,666 Speaker 1: So wait a minute, you guys had to get weighed in? 197 00:13:26,626 --> 00:13:29,506 Speaker 3: We did. That did go by the wayside later on, 198 00:13:29,666 --> 00:13:32,586 Speaker 3: but they put you on the scales every now and 199 00:13:32,626 --> 00:13:35,666 Speaker 3: then to make sure you weren't getting too heavy. I 200 00:13:36,336 --> 00:13:43,616 Speaker 3: was 5'3, and the weight maximum, I think, was 115 201 00:13:43,836 --> 00:13:48,176 Speaker 3: with your clothes on. So we would starve for a 202 00:13:48,216 --> 00:13:51,296 Speaker 3: few days when we knew we were meeting with our 203 00:13:51,536 --> 00:13:58,376 Speaker 3: supervisors to make sure that we weren't over the maximum. 204 00:13:58,396 --> 00:14:01,266 Speaker 3: They would put you on weight check, and you had 205 00:14:01,286 --> 00:14:02,726 Speaker 3: to go in and weigh every two weeks. 206 00:14:04,506 --> 00:14:07,506 Speaker 1: Jean, who gave birth to Heidi in 1970, was a 207 00:14:07,546 --> 00:14:10,386 Speaker 1: pioneer of the new policy that allowed women to resume 208 00:14:10,466 --> 00:14:12,106 Speaker 1: flying after they'd had kids. 209 00:14:13,266 --> 00:14:18,686 Speaker 3: I remember... They were called the returning mothers. And the 210 00:14:18,806 --> 00:14:22,826 Speaker 3: first ones maybe I saw were in 72, 73, right 211 00:14:22,846 --> 00:14:27,876 Speaker 3: around in there. That turned the job into a career 212 00:14:28,716 --> 00:14:34,496 Speaker 3: because people could combine having families with flying. Before it 213 00:14:34,516 --> 00:14:36,756 Speaker 3: had been sort of a lark for a year or 214 00:14:36,796 --> 00:14:40,786 Speaker 3: two to find a husband and get married and leave, 215 00:14:40,926 --> 00:14:45,396 Speaker 3: you know, and quit. But now... They were combining it 216 00:14:45,556 --> 00:14:47,296 Speaker 3: with raising their families. 217 00:14:48,756 --> 00:14:51,856 Speaker 1: Having a decent-paying job with good benefits, that would have 218 00:14:51,876 --> 00:14:54,916 Speaker 1: been a source of stability for Jean as she contemplated 219 00:14:54,986 --> 00:14:59,126 Speaker 1: leaving Fred. She had a career and some financial wherewithal. 220 00:15:00,646 --> 00:15:04,946 Speaker 1: Through United, Jean also had a $ 24, 000 life insurance policy, 221 00:15:05,486 --> 00:15:08,096 Speaker 1: which five months before her death had been changed to 222 00:15:08,126 --> 00:15:11,986 Speaker 1: make Fred the beneficiary, and if he pre-deceased her, named 223 00:15:12,026 --> 00:15:16,816 Speaker 1: Heidi and Kirsten, co-beneficiaries. When Jean died, there were a 224 00:15:16,876 --> 00:15:19,616 Speaker 1: number of women who knew how troubled her marriage was 225 00:15:20,016 --> 00:15:23,756 Speaker 1: and how scared she was of Fred. Jean was a sharer, 226 00:15:24,376 --> 00:15:26,616 Speaker 1: and back then being a flight attendant, you were part 227 00:15:26,636 --> 00:15:27,396 Speaker 1: of a sisterhood. 228 00:15:28,566 --> 00:15:32,066 Speaker 3: We called it jump seat therapy. You know, when everybody 229 00:15:32,086 --> 00:15:34,526 Speaker 3: was asleep and you finally sat down with a cup 230 00:15:34,566 --> 00:15:37,646 Speaker 3: of coffee on the jump seat and started talking to 231 00:15:37,686 --> 00:15:39,706 Speaker 3: a friend of yours that you hadn't flown with for 232 00:15:39,726 --> 00:15:42,046 Speaker 3: a long time. And You got caught up on their 233 00:15:42,106 --> 00:15:44,686 Speaker 3: families and how things were going or who they were dating. 234 00:15:46,246 --> 00:15:49,946 Speaker 1: Jean's flight attendant friends were saddened and confused by her death. 235 00:15:50,856 --> 00:15:55,116 Speaker 1: And more than that, they were alarmed. Had Fred done 236 00:15:55,156 --> 00:15:57,756 Speaker 1: this to her and made it seem like an accident? 237 00:16:06,016 --> 00:16:08,996 Speaker 1: When homicide detectives went to interview Fred about the deaths 238 00:16:09,136 --> 00:16:13,056 Speaker 1: of his second wife, Verna, and his stepson, Doug, in 1981, 239 00:16:13,056 --> 00:16:16,256 Speaker 1: one of the many things they found strange was that 240 00:16:16,416 --> 00:16:18,866 Speaker 1: Fred wanted them to read a document he'd typed up 241 00:16:19,586 --> 00:16:23,906 Speaker 1: about the death of his first wife, Jean. I'm going 242 00:16:23,926 --> 00:16:26,446 Speaker 1: to read a little bit of it because it's so deliberate, 243 00:16:27,006 --> 00:16:31,886 Speaker 1: so oddly specific. It uses military time, like Fred is 244 00:16:31,926 --> 00:16:33,966 Speaker 1: writing out a report for his day job at the 245 00:16:34,006 --> 00:16:39,676 Speaker 1: naval base at Point Magoo. The document is titled, Accident Narrative. 246 00:16:41,196 --> 00:16:46,096 Speaker 1: October 15th, 76. 0400 hours. Jean and I woke up 247 00:16:46,156 --> 00:16:48,896 Speaker 1: to the alarm clock. She got dressed and started her makeup. 248 00:16:49,356 --> 00:16:51,856 Speaker 1: I put coffee on and sat in her bathroom talking 249 00:16:52,036 --> 00:16:56,506 Speaker 1: as she put her makeup on. 0530. Jean left for 250 00:16:56,586 --> 00:16:59,826 Speaker 1: Los Angeles International Airport for a turnaround flight to Chicago. 251 00:17:00,466 --> 00:17:03,106 Speaker 1: I showered, feed dogs, and prepared a bag for Kirsten 252 00:17:03,146 --> 00:17:04,126 Speaker 1: to take to babysitters. 253 00:17:04,126 --> 00:17:06,126 Speaker 4: 0730. 254 00:17:07,036 --> 00:17:09,736 Speaker 1: Took Kirsten to babysitters, and went on to Los Robles 255 00:17:09,776 --> 00:17:11,916 Speaker 1: Hospital in Thousand Oaks to be with Heidi while she 256 00:17:11,956 --> 00:17:18,646 Speaker 1: had her tonsils and adenoids removed. 1700 hours. Feed Heidi popsicle, jello, 257 00:17:18,686 --> 00:17:21,046 Speaker 1: and more fruit juice. Read to her, then put her 258 00:17:21,086 --> 00:17:26,146 Speaker 1: back to bed. 1930. In process of changing Kirsten into 259 00:17:26,186 --> 00:17:31,226 Speaker 1: pajamas when Jean got in from her trip. 2000. Jean 260 00:17:31,266 --> 00:17:33,926 Speaker 1: played with Kirsten and finished putting her to bed. Jean 261 00:17:33,966 --> 00:17:35,666 Speaker 1: and I sat in kitchen and I gave her my 262 00:17:35,706 --> 00:17:38,896 Speaker 1: report on Heidi, discussed her trip while I fixed myself 263 00:17:38,956 --> 00:17:41,736 Speaker 1: some soup. While the soup was heating, I went out 264 00:17:41,876 --> 00:17:46,236 Speaker 1: and turned on the tub heater. And then Fred's clipped, 265 00:17:46,396 --> 00:17:50,576 Speaker 1: matter-of-fact description of parenting and spousing shifts into a more 266 00:17:50,626 --> 00:17:57,006 Speaker 1: expansive register. 2200 hours. Jean shut off the house lights 267 00:17:57,126 --> 00:18:00,586 Speaker 1: and came out. We sat in the, there's a word 268 00:18:00,606 --> 00:18:02,886 Speaker 1: missing here and I assume he forgot to write, hot tub. 269 00:18:03,766 --> 00:18:06,586 Speaker 1: discussing the phone call and Heidi for about 15 minutes. 270 00:18:07,436 --> 00:18:09,416 Speaker 1: Jean sat up on the edge of the tub and 271 00:18:09,456 --> 00:18:12,116 Speaker 1: said she was hot, then asked what I was drinking. 272 00:18:12,816 --> 00:18:14,856 Speaker 1: I said I had a swallow of beer left, and 273 00:18:14,896 --> 00:18:17,656 Speaker 1: she drank it. She then said she would really like 274 00:18:17,676 --> 00:18:20,886 Speaker 1: a glass of wine. I said okay and got out 275 00:18:20,926 --> 00:18:24,006 Speaker 1: of the tub. She said, would you mind checking Kirsten 276 00:18:24,106 --> 00:18:26,706 Speaker 1: as she does not have her usual three diapers on? 277 00:18:27,546 --> 00:18:30,886 Speaker 1: I said okay, and she kissed me and said, thank you, honey. 278 00:18:32,326 --> 00:18:34,326 Speaker 1: Jean was still sitting on the edge of the tub 279 00:18:34,546 --> 00:18:37,466 Speaker 1: when I walked away. Walked up to the house and 280 00:18:37,526 --> 00:18:40,566 Speaker 1: into Kirsten's room. She was soaked, so I changed her 281 00:18:40,606 --> 00:18:42,966 Speaker 1: and put her back to bed. Went into the kitchen 282 00:18:43,006 --> 00:18:45,356 Speaker 1: and pulled a new bottle of wine, used a cork 283 00:18:45,396 --> 00:18:48,276 Speaker 1: puller to open it, grabbed two glasses and some ice, 284 00:18:48,876 --> 00:18:53,336 Speaker 1: turned off the kitchen light, and went outside. At this point, 285 00:18:53,536 --> 00:18:58,736 Speaker 1: Fred's style becomes almost novelistic. My eyes were not used 286 00:18:58,776 --> 00:19:01,696 Speaker 1: to the darkness, and I slowly scuffed along the walk 287 00:19:01,756 --> 00:19:05,896 Speaker 1: towards the tub. I called out softly, Jean, for no 288 00:19:05,936 --> 00:19:09,056 Speaker 1: real reason, when I was halfway there. I was not 289 00:19:09,096 --> 00:19:11,756 Speaker 1: surprised when I heard no answer, as the low bubbling 290 00:19:11,796 --> 00:19:16,226 Speaker 1: of the tub usually masked low conversation. Then I went 291 00:19:16,286 --> 00:19:18,426 Speaker 1: over to the tub, saw she was not there, and 292 00:19:18,466 --> 00:19:20,826 Speaker 1: saw the German shepherd and Jean at the same time. 293 00:19:21,586 --> 00:19:24,526 Speaker 1: Jean was face down in the pool with her arms outstretched. 294 00:19:25,036 --> 00:19:27,776 Speaker 1: hands a few feet away from the wide, built-in steps 295 00:19:27,816 --> 00:19:31,166 Speaker 1: of the pool. The dog was crouched down, just looking 296 00:19:31,186 --> 00:19:36,766 Speaker 1: at her, not making a sound. After pulling Jean out 297 00:19:36,786 --> 00:19:40,936 Speaker 1: of the pool, Fred started mouth-to-mouth. The paramedics arrived and 298 00:19:40,976 --> 00:19:52,026 Speaker 1: took her to Westlake Hospital. She was brain-dead. Fred's friends 299 00:19:52,086 --> 00:19:55,296 Speaker 1: and supporters would call it the United Airlines rumor mill, 300 00:19:55,906 --> 00:20:00,336 Speaker 1: this engine of disquiet that started to hum. Saturday morning, 301 00:20:00,416 --> 00:20:04,076 Speaker 1: Karen McLean's phone rang. She'd flown with Jean the day before, 302 00:20:04,656 --> 00:20:06,876 Speaker 1: and she happened to live near the hospital where Jean 303 00:20:06,896 --> 00:20:08,656 Speaker 1: was being treated in the ICU. 304 00:20:10,036 --> 00:20:12,066 Speaker 2: I was living in Westlake Village, and a friend of 305 00:20:12,086 --> 00:20:16,126 Speaker 2: mine called, and she said, have you heard about Jean? 306 00:20:16,166 --> 00:20:19,226 Speaker 2: And I said, no. She said she drowned last night. 307 00:20:20,026 --> 00:20:23,276 Speaker 2: And she said she's supposed to be at Westlake Hospital. 308 00:20:23,556 --> 00:20:25,196 Speaker 2: Can you go over and see if you can find 309 00:20:25,256 --> 00:20:25,916 Speaker 2: something out? 310 00:20:27,136 --> 00:20:30,676 Speaker 1: Karen was shocked, but things only got more confusing once 311 00:20:30,696 --> 00:20:31,676 Speaker 1: she got to the hospital. 312 00:20:32,536 --> 00:20:35,076 Speaker 2: So I went over to the hospital, and I ended 313 00:20:35,156 --> 00:20:38,086 Speaker 2: up talking to a nurse, and I just said, you know, 314 00:20:38,326 --> 00:20:41,386 Speaker 2: could you tell me what room Jean Roller is in? 315 00:20:42,586 --> 00:20:44,726 Speaker 1: But she couldn't get in to see Jean, who was 316 00:20:44,766 --> 00:20:47,626 Speaker 1: being kept alive on a respirator, and she couldn't find 317 00:20:47,786 --> 00:20:48,866 Speaker 1: any of Jean's family. 318 00:20:49,876 --> 00:20:54,136 Speaker 2: And Jean's dad was a pilot, and I think her sister, Linda, 319 00:20:54,776 --> 00:20:57,416 Speaker 2: was a flight attendant. So I went over to the 320 00:20:57,476 --> 00:21:02,056 Speaker 2: hospital thinking that somebody would be there, and nobody was there. 321 00:21:02,936 --> 00:21:06,286 Speaker 1: Jean's sisters later told detectives that Fred was running point, 322 00:21:06,606 --> 00:21:09,466 Speaker 1: making the medical decisions, and keeping them out of the loop. 323 00:21:10,306 --> 00:21:13,866 Speaker 1: So Karen came back from the hospital empty-handed, no information 324 00:21:13,926 --> 00:21:15,406 Speaker 1: to share with the other flight attendants. 325 00:21:16,236 --> 00:21:20,476 Speaker 2: And then nothing was ever said. It was very hushed up. 326 00:21:21,496 --> 00:21:25,256 Speaker 1: Barbara Warner, a fellow flight attendant, feared the worst. She'd 327 00:21:25,276 --> 00:21:28,186 Speaker 1: been roommates with Jean before Jean's marriage, and they were 328 00:21:28,246 --> 00:21:33,686 Speaker 1: still extremely close. She told investigators in 1981 that Jean's death, 329 00:21:34,006 --> 00:21:37,266 Speaker 1: five years earlier, still didn't sit right with her. She 330 00:21:37,326 --> 00:21:40,456 Speaker 1: knew too much to take Fred's story at face value. 331 00:21:40,476 --> 00:21:44,736 Speaker 1: Here's Barbara talking to an investigator about the morning after 332 00:21:44,816 --> 00:21:45,556 Speaker 1: Jean's drowning. 333 00:21:47,536 --> 00:21:51,836 Speaker 3: Jean had told Barbara and others that Fred was threatening her, 334 00:21:51,856 --> 00:21:54,776 Speaker 3: saying if she cheated on him, he'd kill her. 335 00:21:55,126 --> 00:21:57,066 Speaker 2: And she was cheating on him. 336 00:21:57,086 --> 00:22:00,086 Speaker 1: She was in love with his friend Dick. 337 00:22:18,166 --> 00:22:22,806 Speaker 4: Well, if Fred said that he was going to kill 338 00:22:22,826 --> 00:22:27,646 Speaker 4: her if he ever caught her fooling around, you don't 339 00:22:27,706 --> 00:22:29,806 Speaker 4: think he had an idea that she was fooling around? 340 00:22:30,726 --> 00:22:33,106 Speaker 2: He may have been, I would say, toward the end, 341 00:22:33,946 --> 00:22:35,066 Speaker 2: before her death, I. 342 00:22:35,046 --> 00:22:39,226 Speaker 4: Would say that he was beginning to feel helpless because 343 00:22:39,546 --> 00:22:42,006 Speaker 4: he knew at that point that their marriage was so bad. 344 00:22:43,396 --> 00:22:46,596 Speaker 1: Then, Fred left for Hawaii on a long work trip. 345 00:22:46,736 --> 00:22:49,376 Speaker 3: And I think that... When Fred went to Kauai, I knew, 346 00:22:49,636 --> 00:22:51,736 Speaker 3: I think he really knew. 347 00:22:52,316 --> 00:22:53,516 Speaker 4: That things were in desperate straits. 348 00:22:56,286 --> 00:22:58,946 Speaker 1: Barbara told the investigator that Jean had visited her the 349 00:22:58,986 --> 00:23:01,226 Speaker 1: month before she died and had told her she was 350 00:23:01,266 --> 00:23:02,906 Speaker 1: going to leave Fred when he got back. 351 00:23:03,826 --> 00:23:06,606 Speaker 4: I do think that they had talked about separating before. 352 00:23:06,766 --> 00:23:07,996 Speaker 4: Fred wouldn't have anything to do with it. 353 00:23:10,336 --> 00:23:12,896 Speaker 1: Was it possible that on the night of October 15th, 354 00:23:13,016 --> 00:23:16,276 Speaker 1: before she drowned, Jean had raised the subject with Fred again? 355 00:23:17,256 --> 00:23:20,556 Speaker 1: this time saying her decision was final. 356 00:23:21,036 --> 00:23:23,016 Speaker 4: Now, is she the kind of person that once she 357 00:23:23,056 --> 00:23:28,216 Speaker 4: sat down to talk to Fred, that she would tell 358 00:23:28,276 --> 00:23:30,936 Speaker 4: him that she had been having an affair and everything? 359 00:23:33,356 --> 00:23:35,436 Speaker 3: I often, to be honest with you, I've often wondered 360 00:23:35,476 --> 00:23:39,996 Speaker 3: that myself. That fatal night, that she was so tired. 361 00:23:40,016 --> 00:23:42,836 Speaker 3: She'd flown that Chicago turnaround on a Friday, which I 362 00:23:42,856 --> 00:23:44,166 Speaker 3: can't tell you what that does to your body and 363 00:23:44,186 --> 00:23:44,516 Speaker 3: your mind. 364 00:23:46,846 --> 00:23:50,226 Speaker 1: She could see how Jean, in exasperation, might have just 365 00:23:50,386 --> 00:23:53,166 Speaker 1: blurted out the truth about her feelings for Dick, with 366 00:23:53,266 --> 00:24:06,566 Speaker 1: horrifying consequences. Fred was never charged with killing Jean. He 367 00:24:06,606 --> 00:24:09,466 Speaker 1: maintains his innocence, and he continues to serve a life 368 00:24:09,506 --> 00:24:12,446 Speaker 1: sentence without the possibility of parole for the murders of 369 00:24:12,506 --> 00:24:21,076 Speaker 1: Verna and Doug. Lost Hills is written and reported by me, 370 00:24:21,296 --> 00:24:24,616 Speaker 1: Dana Goodyear. It's created by me and Ben Adair and 371 00:24:24,656 --> 00:24:27,336 Speaker 1: is a production of Western Sound and Pushkin Industries.