1 00:00:14,996 --> 00:00:26,636 Speaker 1: Pushkin. I'm Dana Goodyear. Lost Hills is back with another 2 00:00:26,676 --> 00:00:30,396 Speaker 1: season two bonus episode. This one comes courtesy of our 3 00:00:30,436 --> 00:00:32,796 Speaker 1: tip line, where a few months ago, I got the 4 00:00:32,876 --> 00:00:35,196 Speaker 1: kind of email from a stranger that I live for. 5 00:00:36,436 --> 00:00:40,116 Speaker 1: Will there be more episodes? Regarding Fred Railer? The sender asked, 6 00:00:40,876 --> 00:00:44,876 Speaker 1: I worked with Jean the dacy drowned Jean as in 7 00:00:45,076 --> 00:00:48,876 Speaker 1: Jean Railer, Fred's first wife, the mother of his daughters, 8 00:00:48,956 --> 00:00:52,796 Speaker 1: Heidi and Kirsten. I'd been searching for someone who could 9 00:00:52,796 --> 00:00:57,076 Speaker 1: shed light on that day, Friday, October fifteenth, nineteen seventy six, 10 00:00:57,556 --> 00:01:01,156 Speaker 1: when Jean, a flight attendant for United, flew from lax 11 00:01:01,196 --> 00:01:05,436 Speaker 1: to Chicago O'Hare and back, went home to Malibu, got 12 00:01:05,436 --> 00:01:08,436 Speaker 1: in the hot tub with Fred to unwind, and then 13 00:01:09,196 --> 00:01:13,516 Speaker 1: somehow ended up drowning. Her death wasn't investigated as a 14 00:01:13,556 --> 00:01:18,076 Speaker 1: homicide until Fred's second wife, Verna, and his eight year 15 00:01:18,076 --> 00:01:23,356 Speaker 1: old steps on Doug, drowned under equally suspicious circumstances less 16 00:01:23,356 --> 00:01:28,036 Speaker 1: than five years later. My name's Karen McLean and I 17 00:01:28,156 --> 00:01:33,116 Speaker 1: was a flight attendant for United Airlines. Karen mcclean's the 18 00:01:33,116 --> 00:01:36,036 Speaker 1: one that wrote that letter. She told me she'd stumbled 19 00:01:36,036 --> 00:01:40,596 Speaker 1: on the podcast totally by accident. My daughter put Spotify 20 00:01:40,756 --> 00:01:45,316 Speaker 1: on my phone and I am so lacking in technology 21 00:01:45,356 --> 00:01:49,196 Speaker 1: and stuff, and I was just kind of browsing through 22 00:01:49,436 --> 00:01:52,036 Speaker 1: and I came across this and I saw Verna and 23 00:01:52,156 --> 00:01:54,876 Speaker 1: Doug and I thought, I wonder if this is about Jeane. 24 00:01:56,156 --> 00:02:00,156 Speaker 1: Karen flew with Jean just twice, once the Sunday before 25 00:02:00,156 --> 00:02:03,956 Speaker 1: her drowning, and then on the very day she drowned, 26 00:02:04,876 --> 00:02:07,476 Speaker 1: we flew Chicago. Turns it was when we were first 27 00:02:07,516 --> 00:02:10,796 Speaker 1: able to be moms, and we only worked two days 28 00:02:10,836 --> 00:02:14,476 Speaker 1: a week and we were home every night, so it 29 00:02:14,556 --> 00:02:17,716 Speaker 1: was a great way to be a mom and still 30 00:02:17,716 --> 00:02:20,556 Speaker 1: have a job. But we'd check in like a six 31 00:02:20,756 --> 00:02:23,476 Speaker 1: forty five in the morning and fly to Chicago at 32 00:02:23,516 --> 00:02:26,156 Speaker 1: seven forty five, sit there for a couple hours, and 33 00:02:26,156 --> 00:02:29,916 Speaker 1: then fly back the same day. So we were gone 34 00:02:29,916 --> 00:02:34,876 Speaker 1: for about twelve hours, and then we'd get on the tram, 35 00:02:34,956 --> 00:02:37,116 Speaker 1: go over to the parking lot, and go home. I 36 00:02:37,156 --> 00:02:42,836 Speaker 1: normally got home about seven thirty at night, so you know, 37 00:02:42,876 --> 00:02:45,756 Speaker 1: it was just a long day. Most of us were 38 00:02:45,836 --> 00:02:50,756 Speaker 1: young moms that did the Chicago churns. It was pretty 39 00:02:50,796 --> 00:02:54,556 Speaker 1: much I don't remember anybody that wasn't a mom. You know, 40 00:02:54,676 --> 00:02:59,636 Speaker 1: flying those trips, those flights Flight one hundred from Lax 41 00:02:59,676 --> 00:03:02,516 Speaker 1: to Chicago and flight one eleven from Chicago back to 42 00:03:02,636 --> 00:03:09,116 Speaker 1: Lax were always packed. It was mostly businessmen at that time. 43 00:03:09,556 --> 00:03:14,556 Speaker 1: You know, it was before computers, so every you know, 44 00:03:14,676 --> 00:03:18,036 Speaker 1: there was a lot of business travel. In fact, in 45 00:03:18,076 --> 00:03:22,276 Speaker 1: the sixties we had trips that were just primarily men 46 00:03:22,796 --> 00:03:26,476 Speaker 1: from Chicago to Newark and they were all men trips, 47 00:03:26,876 --> 00:03:30,196 Speaker 1: and United catered to them. They'd have all these little 48 00:03:30,796 --> 00:03:34,836 Speaker 1: gifts that they'd give all these men and stuff, but 49 00:03:34,996 --> 00:03:39,396 Speaker 1: it was basically a businessman that traveled back and forth 50 00:03:39,516 --> 00:03:44,276 Speaker 1: all the time in first class. Karen remembers that the 51 00:03:44,316 --> 00:03:47,956 Speaker 1: Sunday before Jean drown, Jean was working in coach. It 52 00:03:48,036 --> 00:03:50,116 Speaker 1: was the first time they'd met, and they started to 53 00:03:50,196 --> 00:03:53,396 Speaker 1: chat and Karen got a little window into Jean's world. 54 00:03:54,516 --> 00:03:56,996 Speaker 1: She was working the lower deck galley on A seven 55 00:03:57,196 --> 00:04:00,116 Speaker 1: forty seven and I went down and the first time 56 00:04:00,156 --> 00:04:02,196 Speaker 1: I had ever talked to her, and I went down 57 00:04:02,236 --> 00:04:05,076 Speaker 1: for a break and we were just talking about our kids. 58 00:04:06,396 --> 00:04:09,356 Speaker 1: At the time, Jean and Fred's older daughter, Heidi was 59 00:04:09,396 --> 00:04:12,756 Speaker 1: six and Kirsten was two. The family was living on 60 00:04:12,836 --> 00:04:16,356 Speaker 1: Colpine Drive in Malibu, and there was a lot going on. 61 00:04:17,276 --> 00:04:19,956 Speaker 1: Jean was telling friends she was madly in love with 62 00:04:20,076 --> 00:04:24,156 Speaker 1: Fred's friend Dick fell though In, and that she was 63 00:04:24,236 --> 00:04:27,836 Speaker 1: miserable with Fred, and that Fred had threatened to kill 64 00:04:27,916 --> 00:04:32,356 Speaker 1: her if he ever caught her cheating. Jean was stretched thin, 65 00:04:33,036 --> 00:04:36,956 Speaker 1: falling headlong into a radical self improvement group called Life Spring, 66 00:04:37,556 --> 00:04:42,796 Speaker 1: rapidly losing weight, manically planning her future without Fred, working 67 00:04:42,836 --> 00:04:46,036 Speaker 1: twelve hour days for United Airlines, and in the gaps 68 00:04:47,076 --> 00:04:51,836 Speaker 1: being mom to two young girls. She didn't say any 69 00:04:51,836 --> 00:04:54,596 Speaker 1: of this to Karen, but she did ask her for 70 00:04:54,636 --> 00:04:59,516 Speaker 1: some advice, and she said that Heidi was going to 71 00:04:59,516 --> 00:05:02,836 Speaker 1: have her tonsils taken out the following Friday, And she said, 72 00:05:02,876 --> 00:05:04,956 Speaker 1: do you think I should take the day off? And 73 00:05:04,996 --> 00:05:07,156 Speaker 1: I said, well, if it were my daughter, I would. 74 00:05:08,596 --> 00:05:12,676 Speaker 1: But Ge didn't take Karen's advice. On Friday, she showed 75 00:05:12,716 --> 00:05:16,156 Speaker 1: up for work to fly the Chicago Turn again. And 76 00:05:16,396 --> 00:05:19,356 Speaker 1: Friday came and she was there and I said, I 77 00:05:19,396 --> 00:05:23,796 Speaker 1: thought Heidi was getting her tonsils out. This time, Jean 78 00:05:23,996 --> 00:05:26,996 Speaker 1: was working in the first class galley, preparing multi course 79 00:05:27,036 --> 00:05:30,716 Speaker 1: meals for a couple dozen passengers. She was acting normal, 80 00:05:30,796 --> 00:05:33,876 Speaker 1: According to testimony later given by her supervisor on the flight, 81 00:05:34,516 --> 00:05:36,636 Speaker 1: but the fact that Jean was there at all struck 82 00:05:36,756 --> 00:05:40,316 Speaker 1: Karen as strange to be a mom of a six 83 00:05:40,396 --> 00:05:42,956 Speaker 1: year old in a hospital. I think that I would 84 00:05:42,956 --> 00:05:48,356 Speaker 1: have been more active, you know, or concerned, and she 85 00:05:48,396 --> 00:05:51,516 Speaker 1: didn't seem to be that now that I think of it. 86 00:05:52,996 --> 00:05:57,276 Speaker 1: She was kind of distant, and she said, well, Fred 87 00:05:57,396 --> 00:06:02,036 Speaker 1: was taking care of it. Fred was taking care of it. 88 00:06:02,956 --> 00:06:09,516 Speaker 1: He had it handled. That was his style, organized, meticulous rolling. 89 00:06:11,116 --> 00:06:14,636 Speaker 1: Later on, Jean's fellow stortises and many of her friends 90 00:06:14,876 --> 00:06:19,036 Speaker 1: would question what Fred was taking care of and what 91 00:06:19,156 --> 00:06:38,436 Speaker 1: his motives were. Picture Jean. When she met Fred, she 92 00:06:38,556 --> 00:06:41,836 Speaker 1: was in her late twenties unmarried. According to one of 93 00:06:41,836 --> 00:06:43,996 Speaker 1: her friends, she was starting to wonder if she would 94 00:06:44,036 --> 00:06:49,236 Speaker 1: get married. She was a knockout, dark hair, slim, athletic frame, 95 00:06:49,876 --> 00:06:54,076 Speaker 1: fun loving, if a bit high strung. She would probably 96 00:06:54,116 --> 00:06:56,996 Speaker 1: have been wearing a blue flower patterned mumu when she 97 00:06:57,036 --> 00:06:59,796 Speaker 1: met her future husband on his way back from Hawaii. 98 00:07:00,636 --> 00:07:03,996 Speaker 1: That was the uniform for United's Honolulu route, which Jean 99 00:07:04,116 --> 00:07:08,316 Speaker 1: was working at the time. Back then, the airlines nakedly 100 00:07:08,396 --> 00:07:12,436 Speaker 1: catered to mail business travelers, selling the attentive women on 101 00:07:12,476 --> 00:07:14,836 Speaker 1: the flight as one of the attractions of air travel. 102 00:07:15,836 --> 00:07:19,396 Speaker 1: On Southwest the storedis uniform was hot pants and go 103 00:07:19,396 --> 00:07:23,236 Speaker 1: go boots, and pretty much across the industry, the rules 104 00:07:23,236 --> 00:07:28,676 Speaker 1: stipulated no wedding rings. Here's Karen McLean again. When we 105 00:07:28,716 --> 00:07:31,316 Speaker 1: first started flying, we couldn't be married, and we couldn't 106 00:07:31,356 --> 00:07:34,996 Speaker 1: have kids. While you could have kids, they would put 107 00:07:34,996 --> 00:07:38,276 Speaker 1: them up for adoption, but you couldn't be married and 108 00:07:38,636 --> 00:07:42,396 Speaker 1: you had to quit when you were thirty two. Ironically, 109 00:07:42,556 --> 00:07:46,036 Speaker 1: the profession was full of ambitious young women who found 110 00:07:46,116 --> 00:07:50,356 Speaker 1: freedom and independence, financial and otherwise through working for the airlines. 111 00:07:53,396 --> 00:07:56,596 Speaker 1: This is Becky Sprecker. She started working for PanAm in 112 00:07:56,676 --> 00:08:00,756 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, two weeks after graduating from UNC Chapel Hill. 113 00:08:01,716 --> 00:08:08,716 Speaker 1: Back then, women were just starting to delay marriage and 114 00:08:09,276 --> 00:08:12,796 Speaker 1: they were thinking about maybe going to medical school or 115 00:08:12,916 --> 00:08:16,956 Speaker 1: law school. The major careers that existed during those days, 116 00:08:17,036 --> 00:08:21,996 Speaker 1: of course, were being a secretary, or being a nurse, 117 00:08:22,276 --> 00:08:26,516 Speaker 1: or a teacher or a stewardess. We lived kind of 118 00:08:26,516 --> 00:08:32,756 Speaker 1: like little rich girls without the trust fund. We stayed 119 00:08:32,836 --> 00:08:39,276 Speaker 1: in intercontinental hotels, which were wonderful upscale hotels because PanAm 120 00:08:39,276 --> 00:08:45,116 Speaker 1: owned intercontinental hotels. We were young we were high spirited. 121 00:08:46,116 --> 00:08:54,156 Speaker 1: We had I would say, the ideal prescription for a 122 00:08:54,196 --> 00:08:59,916 Speaker 1: pretty freewheeling lifestyle in the seventies. I mean, we had educations, 123 00:09:00,636 --> 00:09:03,516 Speaker 1: we had a job, we were making some money, We 124 00:09:03,556 --> 00:09:05,636 Speaker 1: could fly anywhere in the world. We wanted to go 125 00:09:05,676 --> 00:09:09,916 Speaker 1: on a discount, and we had birth control. Flying for 126 00:09:09,956 --> 00:09:17,156 Speaker 1: the airlines was glamorous. Well back then, in the nineteen seventies, 127 00:09:18,836 --> 00:09:24,276 Speaker 1: famous people did fly commercially. That's a big difference between 128 00:09:24,556 --> 00:09:28,316 Speaker 1: then and now because now they have their own private aircraft. 129 00:09:29,876 --> 00:09:31,756 Speaker 1: Becky said, a friend of hers on the La to 130 00:09:31,836 --> 00:09:36,396 Speaker 1: Tahiti route had an unforgettable star sighting. She reported for 131 00:09:36,436 --> 00:09:39,116 Speaker 1: briefing and poppierte to come back to Los Angeles and 132 00:09:39,156 --> 00:09:42,756 Speaker 1: they said, well, you have Marlon Brando in first class, 133 00:09:43,796 --> 00:09:50,036 Speaker 1: and he was married to a Tahitian actress and I 134 00:09:50,076 --> 00:09:52,996 Speaker 1: think they had a child. He had filmed Mutiny on 135 00:09:53,036 --> 00:09:55,956 Speaker 1: the Bounty down there and had met her. She was 136 00:09:56,036 --> 00:09:59,716 Speaker 1: his love interest in the movie, and he flew frequently 137 00:09:59,796 --> 00:10:05,156 Speaker 1: on pan Am to La. So she only had four 138 00:10:05,196 --> 00:10:08,836 Speaker 1: people in the front. So when they took off, she 139 00:10:09,196 --> 00:10:12,356 Speaker 1: sent the other stewardess to the back to help out 140 00:10:12,436 --> 00:10:14,636 Speaker 1: back there because they were they had a heavier load 141 00:10:14,676 --> 00:10:18,956 Speaker 1: back there, and she was getting ready to do eggs 142 00:10:18,996 --> 00:10:23,276 Speaker 1: to order for the passengers, and the next thing she knows, 143 00:10:23,636 --> 00:10:25,956 Speaker 1: mister Brando comes into the galley and said, well, I 144 00:10:25,996 --> 00:10:30,236 Speaker 1: know how to scramble eggs. I'll help with that, which 145 00:10:30,236 --> 00:10:33,556 Speaker 1: he did, and of course the passengers were delighted. And 146 00:10:33,836 --> 00:10:37,356 Speaker 1: after the service was complete, he said, well, why don't 147 00:10:37,356 --> 00:10:39,676 Speaker 1: you sit down and chat. So she sits down beside him. 148 00:10:39,716 --> 00:10:41,916 Speaker 1: All of our famous people were always in one egg 149 00:10:42,756 --> 00:10:45,516 Speaker 1: And she sits down beside him, and he gives her 150 00:10:45,556 --> 00:10:49,516 Speaker 1: a shell leat that he had on and she still hasn't, 151 00:10:49,596 --> 00:10:53,916 Speaker 1: by the way, and he lit her cigarette. Now this 152 00:10:53,996 --> 00:10:56,116 Speaker 1: was in the days when you could smoke on the plane, 153 00:10:56,476 --> 00:10:58,796 Speaker 1: and somebody took a picture of him, and it's absolutely 154 00:10:58,836 --> 00:11:01,076 Speaker 1: the cutest thing in the world. But that kind of 155 00:11:01,116 --> 00:11:04,556 Speaker 1: thing happened a lot. Then there was the time Becky 156 00:11:04,596 --> 00:11:08,236 Speaker 1: found herself on a movie set. I was flying with 157 00:11:08,276 --> 00:11:14,036 Speaker 1: my ring mate and we had some movie producers on 158 00:11:14,076 --> 00:11:17,756 Speaker 1: the flight out of Los Angeles. They'd come through Honolulu, 159 00:11:17,796 --> 00:11:21,796 Speaker 1: they had to connect and they I said, well, you know, 160 00:11:21,836 --> 00:11:24,796 Speaker 1: what are you guys doing. Well, we're making a movie 161 00:11:26,156 --> 00:11:31,996 Speaker 1: that's being directed by Francis Ford Coppola, and I said, oh, okay, 162 00:11:32,036 --> 00:11:33,876 Speaker 1: you know, well what is it? And they said, well, 163 00:11:33,876 --> 00:11:39,236 Speaker 1: it's based on Joseph Conrad's novel Heart of Darkness, and 164 00:11:39,276 --> 00:11:43,236 Speaker 1: it was it was apocalypse Now, and they invited us 165 00:11:43,316 --> 00:11:46,356 Speaker 1: up to the set. If you can imagine, it was 166 00:11:46,396 --> 00:11:56,116 Speaker 1: supposed to be Neutraang and this young actor who had 167 00:11:56,116 --> 00:11:58,876 Speaker 1: just arrived it was his first day on the set. 168 00:11:58,996 --> 00:12:02,876 Speaker 1: We flew up there with him and it was Martin 169 00:12:02,956 --> 00:12:11,116 Speaker 1: Sheen and I've never been on a movie set before 170 00:12:11,316 --> 00:12:17,636 Speaker 1: or since, but that was an incredibly educational experience. Let's 171 00:12:17,636 --> 00:12:24,276 Speaker 1: say it was a crazy kind of environment. And of 172 00:12:24,276 --> 00:12:27,076 Speaker 1: course we all know that in the seventies there was 173 00:12:27,116 --> 00:12:29,596 Speaker 1: a lot of cocaine and a lot of drugs on 174 00:12:29,676 --> 00:12:35,716 Speaker 1: movie sets, and this was no exception. According to Becky, 175 00:12:35,956 --> 00:12:39,356 Speaker 1: even though the airline industry trafficked in stereotypes about women 176 00:12:39,516 --> 00:12:42,796 Speaker 1: and catered to mail clientele, it was also a hotbed 177 00:12:42,836 --> 00:12:46,036 Speaker 1: of second wave feminism. It used to be that you 178 00:12:46,116 --> 00:12:51,116 Speaker 1: could you could not be married and fly, and they sued, 179 00:12:51,276 --> 00:12:55,436 Speaker 1: and they got that changed. You couldn't have children and fly, 180 00:12:55,756 --> 00:12:59,396 Speaker 1: so they sued and that was changed. So I think 181 00:12:59,476 --> 00:13:02,316 Speaker 1: that they were really sort of trailblazing and in a 182 00:13:02,876 --> 00:13:06,436 Speaker 1: profession where you had to be put on the scales 183 00:13:06,556 --> 00:13:08,836 Speaker 1: and you were hired for how you looked, and you 184 00:13:08,916 --> 00:13:12,156 Speaker 1: had to wear makeup and all of that. It was 185 00:13:12,196 --> 00:13:16,436 Speaker 1: a very It was a big contradiction, and we were 186 00:13:16,476 --> 00:13:20,276 Speaker 1: the most independent of women because we could go anywhere 187 00:13:20,276 --> 00:13:23,116 Speaker 1: in the world that we wanted to go. So wait 188 00:13:23,116 --> 00:13:27,036 Speaker 1: a minute, you guys had to get weight in. We did. 189 00:13:27,396 --> 00:13:30,516 Speaker 1: That did go by the wayside later on, but they 190 00:13:30,876 --> 00:13:32,956 Speaker 1: put you on the scales every now and then to 191 00:13:33,076 --> 00:13:36,836 Speaker 1: make sure you weren't getting too heavy. I was five 192 00:13:37,156 --> 00:13:40,956 Speaker 1: three and the weight maximum I think was one hundred 193 00:13:40,996 --> 00:13:47,876 Speaker 1: and fifteen with your clothes on. So we would starve 194 00:13:47,916 --> 00:13:50,916 Speaker 1: for a few days when we knew we were meeting 195 00:13:50,916 --> 00:13:57,076 Speaker 1: with our supervisors. To make sure that we, you know, 196 00:13:57,196 --> 00:13:59,396 Speaker 1: weren't over the maximum. They put would put you on 197 00:13:59,436 --> 00:14:01,956 Speaker 1: weight check and you had to go in and weigh 198 00:14:02,036 --> 00:14:06,116 Speaker 1: every two weeks. Jean, who gave birth to Heidi in 199 00:14:06,156 --> 00:14:08,996 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy, was a pioneer of the new policy that 200 00:14:09,156 --> 00:14:13,316 Speaker 1: allowed women to resume flying after they'd had kids. I 201 00:14:13,396 --> 00:14:18,676 Speaker 1: remember they were called the returning mothers, and I the 202 00:14:18,756 --> 00:14:22,516 Speaker 1: first ones maybe I saw were in seventy two seventy three, 203 00:14:22,636 --> 00:14:27,276 Speaker 1: right around in there. That turned the job into a 204 00:14:27,396 --> 00:14:34,236 Speaker 1: career because people could combine having families with flying. Before 205 00:14:34,316 --> 00:14:36,596 Speaker 1: it had been sort of a lark for a year 206 00:14:36,676 --> 00:14:40,756 Speaker 1: or two to find a husband and get married and leave, 207 00:14:40,876 --> 00:14:45,436 Speaker 1: you know, and quit. But now they were combining it 208 00:14:45,516 --> 00:14:50,236 Speaker 1: with raising their families, having a decent paying job with 209 00:14:50,276 --> 00:14:53,156 Speaker 1: good benefits. That would have been a source of stability 210 00:14:53,196 --> 00:14:56,876 Speaker 1: for Geene as she contemplated leaving Fred. She had a 211 00:14:56,876 --> 00:15:02,516 Speaker 1: career and some financial wherewithal through United. Jean also had 212 00:15:02,556 --> 00:15:05,996 Speaker 1: a twenty four thousand dollars life insurance policy, which five 213 00:15:06,036 --> 00:15:08,516 Speaker 1: months before her death had been changed to make Fred 214 00:15:08,556 --> 00:15:12,516 Speaker 1: the beneficial and if he predeceased, her named Heidi and 215 00:15:12,636 --> 00:15:17,156 Speaker 1: Kirsten co beneficiaries. When Jean died, there were a number 216 00:15:17,156 --> 00:15:19,996 Speaker 1: of women who knew how troubled her marriage was and 217 00:15:20,076 --> 00:15:23,716 Speaker 1: how scared she was it. Fred. Jean was a sharer, 218 00:15:24,236 --> 00:15:26,596 Speaker 1: and back then being a flight attendant, you were part 219 00:15:26,636 --> 00:15:30,956 Speaker 1: of a sisterhood. We called it jump seat therapy, you know, 220 00:15:31,076 --> 00:15:34,196 Speaker 1: when everybody was asleep and you finally sat down with 221 00:15:34,236 --> 00:15:37,116 Speaker 1: a cup of coffee on the jump seat and started 222 00:15:37,156 --> 00:15:39,196 Speaker 1: talking to a friend of yours. That you hadn't flown 223 00:15:39,236 --> 00:15:41,796 Speaker 1: with for a long time, and you got caught up 224 00:15:41,796 --> 00:15:43,916 Speaker 1: on their families and how things were going or who 225 00:15:43,916 --> 00:15:48,596 Speaker 1: they were dating. Jean's flight attendant friends were saddened and 226 00:15:48,716 --> 00:15:52,556 Speaker 1: confused by her death, and more than that, they were 227 00:15:52,596 --> 00:15:56,716 Speaker 1: alarmed had Fred done this to her and made it 228 00:15:56,756 --> 00:16:07,996 Speaker 1: seem like an accident. When homicide detectives went to interview 229 00:16:07,996 --> 00:16:10,796 Speaker 1: Fred about the deaths of his second wife, Verna and 230 00:16:10,916 --> 00:16:14,076 Speaker 1: his stepson Doug in nineteen eighty one, one of the 231 00:16:14,156 --> 00:16:17,156 Speaker 1: many things they found strange was that Fred wanted them 232 00:16:17,156 --> 00:16:20,236 Speaker 1: to read a document he'd typed up about the death 233 00:16:20,276 --> 00:16:24,196 Speaker 1: of his first wife, Jean. I'm going to read a 234 00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:28,356 Speaker 1: little bit of it because it's so deliberate, so oddly specific. 235 00:16:29,196 --> 00:16:32,436 Speaker 1: It uses military time, like Fred is writing out a 236 00:16:32,476 --> 00:16:34,836 Speaker 1: report for his day job at the naval base at 237 00:16:34,876 --> 00:16:42,156 Speaker 1: Point Magoo. The document is titled Accident Narrative. October fifteenth, 238 00:16:42,276 --> 00:16:45,916 Speaker 1: seventy six, zero four hundred hours, Jean and I woke 239 00:16:45,996 --> 00:16:48,436 Speaker 1: up to the alarm clock. She got dressed and started 240 00:16:48,436 --> 00:16:50,916 Speaker 1: her makeup. I put coffee on and sat in her 241 00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:54,956 Speaker 1: bathroom talking as she put her makeup on. Zero five 242 00:16:55,116 --> 00:16:58,356 Speaker 1: thirty Jean left for a Los Angeles International Airport for 243 00:16:58,396 --> 00:17:01,756 Speaker 1: a turnaround flight to Chicago. I showered, feed dogs, and 244 00:17:01,796 --> 00:17:06,036 Speaker 1: prepared a bag for Kirsten to take to babysitters. Zero 245 00:17:06,076 --> 00:17:08,916 Speaker 1: seven thirty. Took Kirsten to babysitters and went on to 246 00:17:09,356 --> 00:17:11,596 Speaker 1: Rogue Lays Hospital in Thousand Oaks to be with Heidi 247 00:17:11,636 --> 00:17:16,556 Speaker 1: while she had her tonsils and adenoids removed. Seventeen hundred hours, 248 00:17:16,996 --> 00:17:20,596 Speaker 1: feed Heidi popsicle, jello and more fruit juice, read to her, 249 00:17:20,636 --> 00:17:24,996 Speaker 1: then put her back to bed. Nineteen thirty in process 250 00:17:25,036 --> 00:17:27,756 Speaker 1: of changing Kirsten into pajamas when Jean got in from 251 00:17:27,756 --> 00:17:32,556 Speaker 1: her trip twenty hundred Jean played with Kirsten and finished 252 00:17:32,556 --> 00:17:34,956 Speaker 1: putting her to bed. Jeane and I sat in kitchen 253 00:17:34,996 --> 00:17:37,676 Speaker 1: and I gave her my report on Heidi discussed her 254 00:17:37,676 --> 00:17:40,556 Speaker 1: trip while I fixed myself some soup. While the soup 255 00:17:40,636 --> 00:17:42,916 Speaker 1: was heating, I went out and turned on the tub heater. 256 00:17:44,796 --> 00:17:48,396 Speaker 1: And then Fred's clipped matter of fact description of parenting 257 00:17:48,436 --> 00:17:54,036 Speaker 1: and spousing shifts into a more expansive register. Twenty two 258 00:17:54,156 --> 00:17:57,796 Speaker 1: hundred hours. Jean shut off the house lights and came out. 259 00:17:58,396 --> 00:18:01,116 Speaker 1: We sat in the There's a word missing here, and 260 00:18:01,156 --> 00:18:04,276 Speaker 1: I assume he forgot to write hot tub, discussing the 261 00:18:04,316 --> 00:18:07,956 Speaker 1: phone call and Heidi for about fifteen minutes. Jean sat 262 00:18:08,036 --> 00:18:09,716 Speaker 1: up on the edge of the tub and said she 263 00:18:09,836 --> 00:18:13,036 Speaker 1: was hot, then asked what I was drinking. I said 264 00:18:13,076 --> 00:18:15,476 Speaker 1: I had a swallow of beer left, and she drank it. 265 00:18:16,036 --> 00:18:18,676 Speaker 1: She then said she would really like a glass of wine. 266 00:18:19,516 --> 00:18:22,436 Speaker 1: I said okay and got out of the tub. She said, 267 00:18:22,596 --> 00:18:24,796 Speaker 1: would you mind checking Kirston as she does not have 268 00:18:24,996 --> 00:18:28,796 Speaker 1: her usual three diapers on? I said okay, and she 269 00:18:28,876 --> 00:18:33,076 Speaker 1: kissed me and said thank you, honey. Jean was still 270 00:18:33,116 --> 00:18:35,396 Speaker 1: sitting on the edge of the tub when I walked away. 271 00:18:36,356 --> 00:18:39,196 Speaker 1: Walked up to the house and into Kirston's room. She 272 00:18:39,276 --> 00:18:41,156 Speaker 1: was soaked, so I changed her and put her back 273 00:18:41,156 --> 00:18:43,756 Speaker 1: to bed. Went into the kitchen and pulled a new 274 00:18:43,796 --> 00:18:46,276 Speaker 1: bottle of wine, used a cork puller to open it, 275 00:18:46,556 --> 00:18:49,996 Speaker 1: grabbed two glasses and some ice, turned off the kitchen light, 276 00:18:50,236 --> 00:18:56,036 Speaker 1: and went outside. At this point Fred's style becomes almost novelistic. 277 00:18:57,716 --> 00:18:59,916 Speaker 1: My eyes were not used to the darkness, and I 278 00:18:59,996 --> 00:19:03,796 Speaker 1: slowly scuffed along the walk towards the tub. I called 279 00:19:03,836 --> 00:19:07,076 Speaker 1: out softly Jean for no real reason. When I was 280 00:19:07,156 --> 00:19:10,676 Speaker 1: halfway there. I was not surprised when I heard no answer, 281 00:19:10,796 --> 00:19:14,396 Speaker 1: as the low bubbling of the tub usually masked low conversation. 282 00:19:15,716 --> 00:19:17,636 Speaker 1: Then I went over to the tub, saw she was 283 00:19:17,716 --> 00:19:20,116 Speaker 1: not there, and saw the German shepherd and jean at 284 00:19:20,116 --> 00:19:23,156 Speaker 1: the same time. Jeanne was faced down in the pool 285 00:19:23,196 --> 00:19:26,436 Speaker 1: with her arms outstretched hands a few feet away from 286 00:19:26,436 --> 00:19:29,516 Speaker 1: the wide built in steps of the pool. The dog 287 00:19:29,636 --> 00:19:33,116 Speaker 1: was crouched down, just looking at her, not making a sound. 288 00:19:35,716 --> 00:19:38,636 Speaker 1: After pulling jean out of the pool, Fred started mouth 289 00:19:38,676 --> 00:19:42,196 Speaker 1: to mouth. The paramedics arrived and took her to Westlake Hospital. 290 00:19:43,916 --> 00:19:53,196 Speaker 1: She was brain dead. Fred's friends and supporters would call 291 00:19:53,236 --> 00:19:57,356 Speaker 1: it the United Airline's rumor mill, this engine of disquiet 292 00:19:57,476 --> 00:20:01,796 Speaker 1: that started to hum. Saturday morning, Karen mcclean's phone rang. 293 00:20:02,316 --> 00:20:05,236 Speaker 1: She'd flown with jean the day before, and she happened 294 00:20:05,276 --> 00:20:07,716 Speaker 1: to live near the hospital where Jeanne was being treated 295 00:20:07,756 --> 00:20:11,596 Speaker 1: in the ICU. I was living in Westlake Village and 296 00:20:11,636 --> 00:20:15,276 Speaker 1: a friend of mine called and she said, have you 297 00:20:15,316 --> 00:20:17,996 Speaker 1: heard about jean And I said no. She said she 298 00:20:18,196 --> 00:20:21,516 Speaker 1: drowned last night, and she said she's supposed to be 299 00:20:21,596 --> 00:20:24,716 Speaker 1: it's Westlake Hospital. Can you go over and see if 300 00:20:24,716 --> 00:20:28,836 Speaker 1: you can find something out Karen was shocked, but things 301 00:20:28,836 --> 00:20:31,676 Speaker 1: only got more confusing once she got to the hospital. 302 00:20:32,476 --> 00:20:35,076 Speaker 1: So I went over to the hospital and I ended 303 00:20:35,156 --> 00:20:37,956 Speaker 1: up talking to a nurse and I just said, you know, 304 00:20:38,236 --> 00:20:41,236 Speaker 1: could you tell me what room Jean Roller is in? 305 00:20:42,516 --> 00:20:44,716 Speaker 1: But she couldn't get in to see Jean, who was 306 00:20:44,756 --> 00:20:47,596 Speaker 1: being kept alive on a respirator, And she couldn't find 307 00:20:47,676 --> 00:20:51,956 Speaker 1: any of Jean's family. And Jean's dad was a pilot, 308 00:20:52,196 --> 00:20:55,836 Speaker 1: and I think her sister, Linda was a flight attendant. 309 00:20:56,356 --> 00:20:59,036 Speaker 1: So I went over to the hospital thinking that somebody 310 00:20:59,116 --> 00:21:04,076 Speaker 1: would be there, and nobody was there. Jean's sisters later 311 00:21:04,116 --> 00:21:07,276 Speaker 1: told detectives that Fred was running point, making the medical 312 00:21:07,316 --> 00:21:10,756 Speaker 1: decisions and keeping them out of the loop. So Karen 313 00:21:10,836 --> 00:21:13,996 Speaker 1: came back from the hospital empty handed, no information to 314 00:21:13,996 --> 00:21:17,316 Speaker 1: share with the other flight attendants, and then nothing was 315 00:21:17,796 --> 00:21:22,436 Speaker 1: ever said. It was very hushed up. Barbara Warner, a 316 00:21:22,476 --> 00:21:25,916 Speaker 1: fellow flight attendant, feared the worst. She had been roommates 317 00:21:25,956 --> 00:21:29,556 Speaker 1: with Jean before Jean's marriage, and they were still extremely close. 318 00:21:30,676 --> 00:21:33,676 Speaker 1: She told investigators in nineteen eighty one that Jean's death 319 00:21:33,956 --> 00:21:37,156 Speaker 1: five years earlier still didn't sit right with her. She 320 00:21:37,276 --> 00:21:40,436 Speaker 1: knew too much to take Fred's story at face value. 321 00:21:41,516 --> 00:21:44,676 Speaker 1: Here's Barbara talking to an investigator about the morning after 322 00:21:44,796 --> 00:21:47,996 Speaker 1: Jean's drowning. I got home for a trip on Saturday 323 00:21:48,196 --> 00:21:54,276 Speaker 1: after the Friday incident drowning, and my first question to 324 00:21:54,316 --> 00:21:59,996 Speaker 1: whether was mother with Red Spans and Marma at the point, 325 00:21:59,996 --> 00:22:01,676 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm at the airport, I had attat 326 00:22:02,476 --> 00:22:07,116 Speaker 1: I don't know anything. Jean had told Barbara and others 327 00:22:07,196 --> 00:22:10,476 Speaker 1: that Fred was threatening her, saying if she cheated on him, 328 00:22:10,676 --> 00:22:14,676 Speaker 1: he'd kill her, and she was cheating on him. She 329 00:22:14,796 --> 00:22:20,276 Speaker 1: was in love with his friend Dick. Well, if excuse me, 330 00:22:20,316 --> 00:22:23,596 Speaker 1: I said he was going to kill her favorite Carter 331 00:22:23,676 --> 00:22:28,756 Speaker 1: fooling around. You don't think he had an idea that 332 00:22:28,796 --> 00:22:32,316 Speaker 1: she was fooling around. He may have been, I would say, 333 00:22:32,316 --> 00:22:35,596 Speaker 1: touring the end before her death. I would say that 334 00:22:35,756 --> 00:22:40,156 Speaker 1: he was beginning to feel helpless because he knew at 335 00:22:40,196 --> 00:22:44,196 Speaker 1: that point that the marriage was so bad. Then Fred 336 00:22:44,276 --> 00:22:46,956 Speaker 1: left for Hawaii on a long work trip. And I 337 00:22:46,996 --> 00:22:49,636 Speaker 1: think that when Fred went to Ka, I knew. I 338 00:22:49,796 --> 00:22:53,596 Speaker 1: think he really knew to think her in desperate strings. 339 00:22:56,196 --> 00:22:58,916 Speaker 1: Barbara told the investigator that Jean had visited her the 340 00:22:58,956 --> 00:23:01,196 Speaker 1: month before she died and had told her she was 341 00:23:01,236 --> 00:23:03,996 Speaker 1: going to leave Fred when he got back. I do 342 00:23:04,156 --> 00:23:06,956 Speaker 1: think that they had talked about separate before Fred with 343 00:23:07,156 --> 00:23:11,236 Speaker 1: haiming did you do with it? Was it possible that 344 00:23:11,316 --> 00:23:14,436 Speaker 1: on the night of October fifteenth, before she drowned, Jean 345 00:23:14,556 --> 00:23:18,636 Speaker 1: had raised the subject with Fred again, this time saying 346 00:23:18,636 --> 00:23:22,356 Speaker 1: her decision was final. Yeah. She's the kind of person 347 00:23:22,396 --> 00:23:25,716 Speaker 1: that once she sat down to talk to Fred that 348 00:23:25,956 --> 00:23:29,636 Speaker 1: she would tell him that she had been having an 349 00:23:29,716 --> 00:23:34,716 Speaker 1: affair and everything, or I to be honest with you guys, 350 00:23:34,756 --> 00:23:39,196 Speaker 1: often wondered that myself is that fatal night She was 351 00:23:39,236 --> 00:23:42,596 Speaker 1: so tired she flung that Chicago turnoound on a Friday, 352 00:23:42,596 --> 00:23:44,116 Speaker 1: which I can't tell you whether it does your body 353 00:23:44,116 --> 00:23:49,396 Speaker 1: in your mind, she could see how Jean, in exasperation, 354 00:23:49,796 --> 00:23:52,036 Speaker 1: might have just blurted out the truth about her feelings 355 00:23:52,036 --> 00:23:59,156 Speaker 1: for Deck with horrifying consequences. But no one will ever 356 00:23:59,236 --> 00:24:05,756 Speaker 1: know that any morning. Fred was never charged with killing Jean. 357 00:24:06,356 --> 00:24:09,156 Speaker 1: He maintains his innocence, and he continues to serve a 358 00:24:09,236 --> 00:24:12,276 Speaker 1: life sentence without the possibility of parole. For the murders 359 00:24:12,316 --> 00:24:20,716 Speaker 1: of Verna and Doug. Lost Hills is written and reported 360 00:24:20,716 --> 00:24:23,956 Speaker 1: by me Dana Goodyear It's created by me and Ben 361 00:24:23,956 --> 00:24:27,436 Speaker 1: Adair and is a production of Western Sound and Pushkin industries.