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Speaker 1: Warning, this podcast contains so many freaking spoilers about Matt

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Speaker 1: reeves adaptation of The Batman starring Robert Pattinson and Zoe Kravitz.

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Speaker 1: We are gonna spoil a lot of stuff. Not only that,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about a bunch of Batman comics and

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Speaker 1: Batman video games and other Batman movies, and we're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about details from all of those things. We give

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Speaker 1: a lot of comics recommendations, but we try not to

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Speaker 1: spoil the stuff. But listen, there's gonna be details in there,

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Speaker 1: so just be warned, and especially if you have not

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Speaker 1: seen The Batman in theaters, now watch it first, then

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Speaker 1: come back.

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Speaker 2: My name is.

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Speaker 1: I did again.

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Speaker 3: Hello, my name is Jason get Zepsi O the Jason Man.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to x ray Vision The Crooked Podcast where we

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Speaker 3: dive deep it's your favorite shows, movies, comics and pop culture.

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Speaker 3: In today's episode on previously on, we'll be covering news

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Speaker 3: in the comic pop culture world, including Marveley's.

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Speaker 1: All Right, including including news from Marvel Sony first.

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Speaker 2: Jason Wayne and he is.

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Speaker 1: In Netflix's Marvel Shows, landing on Disney, Hollywood's reaction to

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Speaker 1: the war in Ukraine what Funkel Pop might tell us

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Speaker 1: about Doctor Stranger in the Multiverse of Mans. In the Airlock,

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Speaker 1: we will be discussing what else Matt Reeves is the

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Speaker 1: Batman in the omuous discussion of war and its influence

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Speaker 1: on science fiction and vice versa. In the Hive Mind,

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Speaker 1: we will be discussing Batman stuff with famed Batman a

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Speaker 1: Tour Pete Holmes and in the Endgame Batman Villains. Joining

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Speaker 1: me today.

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Speaker 3: Joining me today is writer and comics Encyclopedia all around

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Speaker 3: brilliant person, Rosie Knight.

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Speaker 1: Rosie, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm good. I'm glad that we got I'm glad we

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Speaker 2: got both sides of you. Today we had Jason Batman

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Speaker 2: and Jason Bruce Wayne.

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Speaker 1: That's right? Who? All right? First up, some news. First

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Speaker 1: bit of news. Deadline is reporting that Arianna Deboe's has

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Speaker 1: been cast in Craven the Hunter as Calypso. Debos is

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Speaker 1: nominated for Best Sporting Actress for her portrayal of a

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Speaker 1: Nie and Steven Spielberg's adaptation of West Side Story. She

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Speaker 1: recently won the SAG Award for Best Supporting Actress, making

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Speaker 1: her the first Latina to win a film award. From

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Speaker 1: the Guild as well as the first queer woman of

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Speaker 1: colored win an individual SAG Award. This is exciting. Man

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Speaker 1: Craven is not even so secretly one of the weirder

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Speaker 1: Spider Man characters. I'm excited to see what comes of this.

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Speaker 1: What do you think? What direction do you think the

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Speaker 1: Craven movie will go in.

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Speaker 2: They are stacking up character actors, they are stacking up

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Speaker 2: award winners, they are stacking up unexpected people. And I

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Speaker 2: think that casting Ariana depos as Calypso is very interesting

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Speaker 2: because that is like a character who will need a reimagining. Allah.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, that panther So. I think this could be

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Speaker 2: It's gonna be weird, but I think it's gonna be

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Speaker 2: a little bit serious.

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Speaker 1: Oo exciting. Next up, Marvel recently tweeted that their Netflix

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Speaker 1: shows Plus Asian of Shield formerly from the ABC network.

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Speaker 1: We'll all be coming to Disney Plus on March sixteenth.

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Speaker 1: So that's Daredevil, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Iron Fist, The Defenders,

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Speaker 1: The Punisher, and Agents of Shield all coming to the

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Speaker 1: Disney Plus platform. And you know what that means, folks,

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Speaker 1: hardcore sex and actual blood splattering violence coming to Disney

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Speaker 1: Plus that television near you. This is gonna be interesting.

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Speaker 1: I we'll see, obviously how Disney ends up bifurcating and

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Speaker 1: you know, like password kid proofing essentially their platform. I

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Speaker 1: didn't think this would be the way that we get

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Speaker 1: nudity on Disney Plus.

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Speaker 2: I mean, think about I think it was like Splash,

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Speaker 2: where when they put a version of it out they

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Speaker 2: see ged hair over the butt of the women standing

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Speaker 2: by the beach. So this seems unexpected, especially as we

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Speaker 2: have assumed this would probably have gone to Hulu. But

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Speaker 2: Disney Plus does have a precedent for this outside of America,

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Speaker 2: in Canada, in Europe, in pretty much every other territory.

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Speaker 2: Disney Plus is split into multiple different things, including Star

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Speaker 2: which contains most of the Hulu projects, and things that

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Speaker 2: are adult. So I'm assuming, like you said, some kind

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Speaker 2: of tab system. I think they announced with this that

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Speaker 2: the first time you open Disney Plus, when the shows

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Speaker 2: have been put on there, you will be encouraged to

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Speaker 2: set parental controls. So they don't want to. They want

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Speaker 2: to make it so no kid is watching that first

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Speaker 2: episode of Jessica Jones or Luke Cage, whichever one is

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Speaker 2: with the sex, lots of sex.

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Speaker 1: Last week, Luke Cage showrunner chew Hadari Cocher tweeted a

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Speaker 1: thread about working on Luke Cage, his experience doing such

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Speaker 1: including the original opening credits, and he discussed essentially parts

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Speaker 1: of the show that he hopes remain in the show

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Speaker 1: when the show goes up on Disney Plus quote rewatching

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Speaker 1: Luke Cage while I can Netflix, They're going to do

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Speaker 1: what they do. It's theirs. I just hope they don't

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Speaker 1: sit on it for years to allow for an easy

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Speaker 1: reboot or re air with a different mix or the

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Speaker 1: N word muted. I'd love to do commentary tracks or

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Speaker 1: the original credits, so that will be interesting. I will

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Speaker 1: say that The Defenders is like underrated. I enjoyed The

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Speaker 1: Defenders except for iron Fist being in The Defenders, but

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Speaker 1: I Jessica Jones season one in particular, I thought was great.

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Speaker 1: Daredevil was mostly great, although it was mostly very good.

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Speaker 1: I liked Luke Cage. Iron Fist is what it was.

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Speaker 1: The Punisher is impossible now for me to disconnect from

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Speaker 1: the cops among Us and the Blue Lives Matter crowd,

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Speaker 1: which is unfortunate. And Agents of Shield was great. This

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Speaker 1: is a great moment for Agents of Shield stands out

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Speaker 1: there especially.

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Speaker 2: It makes a lot of sense because we know Figy

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Speaker 2: is not shy about bringing things from the Dad Evil

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Speaker 2: Netflix You' and of us. We saw Charlie Coxon Spider

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Speaker 2: Man No Way Hope. We know that the Dark Hold

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Speaker 2: was in Wondervision that had already been an Agents of

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Speaker 2: Shield a major part, So it will be really interesting

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Speaker 2: to see where this goes. I think the thing I'm

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Speaker 2: most interested in is like, if they make a kind

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Speaker 2: of more adult section or a different tab, could Moonnight

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Speaker 2: live there?

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Speaker 1: Ooh and it comes.

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Speaker 2: I think that the timing of this makes me wonder

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Speaker 2: if this is a if they're setting up something for Moonnight.

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Speaker 1: Kevin Feigey has stated that Moonnight is a quote brutal,

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Speaker 1: which is was notable. I've never heard him describe a

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Speaker 1: Disney Marvel project in those terms before, so that'll be

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Speaker 1: interesting to see. Next up, Deadline is reporting that several

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Speaker 1: films are pausing film releases in Russia in light of

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Speaker 1: the country's aggressive and unlawful invasion of Ukraine. Those include

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Speaker 1: The Last City, Sonic Two, Morbius Turning Red, and The Batman.

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Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin will soon be on his knees because he

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Speaker 1: can't watch the three hour cut of Matt Reeves's Batman.

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Speaker 2: He can't watch morebs. That's what will break him.

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Speaker 1: And then finally, Marvel has unveiled a new line of

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Speaker 1: Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness Funko Pops. Now buyer beware.

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Speaker 1: It took six months for me to get my Kid

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Speaker 1: Loki and the Alligator Loki Funko Pop, So if you're

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Speaker 1: ordering your Funko Pop, just know that it can take

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Speaker 1: a while. But a bunch of fun stuff in there.

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Speaker 1: Let's start with the first very interesting one, Supreme Strange.

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Speaker 1: So this is a Doctor Strange.

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Speaker 2: Dude, no mustache, no mustache, and he's got the white

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Speaker 2: yes the side of his head kind of like defend

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Speaker 2: a Strange, but he doesn't have a ponytail, and he's

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Speaker 2: wearing a costume that looks more like it's a commutage

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Speaker 2: kind of costume. Also, I love that we now have

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Speaker 2: Doctor Strange, Strange, Supreme from What If, and Supreme Strange.

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Speaker 1: So we know we're gonna get like a corrupted Strange,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna get obviously the who we will refer

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Speaker 1: to as six one six Strange, and now it seems

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Speaker 1: we may get this other Strange. You had a really

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Speaker 1: great theory on who this is and troufro.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So I so we know that we're gonna have

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Speaker 2: corrupt Strange, defender Strange, which is gonna be Benedict Ya

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Speaker 2: six one six Strange, like you pointed out normal Strange.

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Speaker 2: So I think no mustache, different hairstyle. I think this

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Speaker 2: could be the one, the only Bruce Campbell because rumor

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Speaker 2: has it, and I believe this is on the record

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Speaker 2: Sam Raimi saying this. He was originally meant to be

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Speaker 2: playing doctor Strange if Sam Raimi continued his Spider Man universe.

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Speaker 2: And I think there's even a reference kind of name

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Speaker 2: check to Dr Stephen Strange in those movies. And we

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Speaker 2: know this is a Sam Raimi movie.

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Speaker 1: Like Bruce be in it, right, I would bet everything

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Speaker 1: that I own and that I hold dear that Bruce came.

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Speaker 1: There's no way he is not in this movie.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say this for people looking for evidence

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Speaker 1: or looking to make a decision on Rosie's prediction right now,

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Speaker 1: will pause a podcast for you. Go to Bruce Campbell's

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Speaker 1: Wikipedia the very very first picture look at that picture

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Speaker 1: and then look at the Supreme Strange Funko Pop and

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you, I think you're right.

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Speaker 2: I also think that like the fact that it's the

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Speaker 2: blue costume. Yeah, there's this old movie that was going

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Speaker 2: to be a Doctor Strange movie that ended up they

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Speaker 2: lost the licensing before it could come out. It's called

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Speaker 2: The Dr Mordred instead, and it doesn't have anything to

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Speaker 2: do with Sam Raimi, but it's like an ultimate B movie.

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Speaker 2: It came out from Full Moon. It seems like something

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Speaker 2: him and Campbell would probably have had interest in. It

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Speaker 2: has the guy from Reanimator in it, and in that

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Speaker 2: the version of Doctor Strange wears a blue costume. So

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Speaker 2: all of it is just seeming very B movie and

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Speaker 2: magical to me. And also who doesn't want to Bruce

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Speaker 2: Campbell Doctor Strange Funko Pop. Oh.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely up for the Funker releases is a character simply

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Speaker 1: called Sarah wearing what looks to be a commer Tage

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Speaker 1: esque kind of outfit, single earring. There is some speculation

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Speaker 1: this could be Sarah Wolfe's a very a minor character

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Speaker 1: in the Strange Firmament. But this raises a question, you know,

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Speaker 1: whether it's Jericho Drum or a character like Jericho Drum

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Speaker 1: or the Hood or whoever, when are we going to

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Speaker 1: see other members of the magical community Marvel's Magical Community

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Speaker 1: pop up in the MCU, and you would expect when

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Speaker 1: it happens, it would happen in a Doctor Strange movie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this movie seems like the space for that magical exploration.

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Speaker 2: We know that in the first Doctor Strange movie there

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Speaker 2: was a Drum who did die. Yes, so it and

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Speaker 2: the whole thing that is most key to the character

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Speaker 2: known as Doctor Voodoo is that his brother died and

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Speaker 2: he's haunted by the ghost of his brother. So that

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Speaker 2: could happen to anyone who has a sibling. I love

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Speaker 2: the idea that this is Sarva Drum and that's why

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Speaker 2: they didn't necessarily give her a name, And that's their reimagining.

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Speaker 2: But like you said, it could be any number of

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Speaker 2: magical characters, or it could just be Disney inventing a

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Speaker 2: new character to bring into the movies. That's always an option.

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Speaker 2: But this is the fun of this stuff, and a

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Speaker 2: funko pop usually that means you're a relatively important character

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Speaker 2: in the movie.

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Speaker 1: Agreed, Well, I am super super excited for Multiverse amanais

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Speaker 1: that is going to tell us a lot about the

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Speaker 1: direction that Marvel is taking, which movies are the team

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Speaker 1: up movies, and what exactly the arc of this particular

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Speaker 1: phase is gonna look like, because it is a lot

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Speaker 1: you know, Phase one, I think obviously it was a

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Speaker 1: different stage and scale of the MCU at the time,

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Speaker 1: but it was pretty clear we're heading towards the Avengers

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Speaker 1: and there's gonna be a team up and they're gonna

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Speaker 1: fight a big bad and it's you know, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be low key here. Kang hasn't showed up yet. Ostensibly

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Speaker 1: the big bad of this particular phase the multiverse is

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Speaker 1: in a tumult, and it's unclear when a new Avengers

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Speaker 1: team will cheer back on the horizon. So I feel

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Speaker 1: like we're gonna get a lot of answers to those

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Speaker 1: questions in Multiverse of Madness. Up next, let's get into

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Speaker 1: the airlock and talk about some Batman. What do you say?

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Speaker 2: Let's do it.

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Speaker 3: We're stepping out of the airlock and it's the raid

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Speaker 3: Soak Streets of Gossip City, Rosie.

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Speaker 1: We saw the Batman last week. It's a three hour extravaganza,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna recap it for you right now. There

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Speaker 1: was a disclaimer up top in which we talked about spoiler.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna say it again. If you have not seen

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Speaker 1: Matt Reeves The Batman, starring Robert Pattinson as Bruce Wayne

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Speaker 1: slash Batman, Zoe Kravitz a Selena Kyle slash Catwoman. Paul

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Speaker 1: Dano is the Riddler, and unrecognizable Colin Farrell as Oswald

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Speaker 1: Cobblepot and Jeffrey Wright as Lieutenant James Gordon. YadA, YadA, YadA.

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Speaker 1: Then please don't listen to this. What are you doing now?

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Speaker 1: I'll say this, The movie's unspoilable. It's about vibes, and

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Speaker 1: the vibes are excellent. But still, if you haven't seen it,

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Speaker 1: stop now, go watch the movie. Come back, We'll be

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Speaker 1: here for you. Here comes the recap. We all been

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Speaker 1: on Gotham City. It is Halloween, early in the career

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Speaker 1: of a young Batman, second year of the appearance of

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Speaker 1: Batman on the scene of Gotham City, and of course

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Speaker 1: Batman is secretly the playboy billionaire Bruce Wayne. Gothams criminals

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Speaker 1: shiver and fear when the bat signal run by up

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Speaker 1: and coming Lieutenant James Gordon, the only clean and honest

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Speaker 1: cop in Gotham, shines above the skyline. A series of audacious,

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Speaker 1: mystifying it and intricately planned murders of notable Gothamites is

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Speaker 1: being carried out by a masked maniac named the Riddler.

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Speaker 1: Of these crimes are absolutely shocking, and no one knows

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Speaker 1: what to do who First the mayor falls, then it's

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Speaker 1: the district attorney, then it's others. Gotham's cops are like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, we're on the tape. We're a completely

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Speaker 1: corrupt organization. We don't actually solve crimes. We commit them

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Speaker 1: on a vast scale all the time, all the time,

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Speaker 1: all the time, and so we have no idea what

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Speaker 1: to do. So Lieutenant Gordon says, you know what, why

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Speaker 1: don't we just like have Batman come in and actually

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Speaker 1: do it, Because you guys suck, You're terrible at solving crimes.

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Speaker 1: So Batman comes in, he gathers clues. Meanwhile, the Riddler

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Speaker 1: is releasing his videos all over the Internet. He's basically

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Speaker 1: like an eight chan slash four chan troll. Meanwhile, Carmine

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Speaker 1: Falcone runs his organized crime syndicate out of his night clubs,

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Speaker 1: surrounded by his captains and various tough guys, including his

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Speaker 1: lieutenant Oswald Copplepot the Penguin. One of the employees of

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Speaker 1: the club is a cocktail waitress named Selina Kyle, secretly

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Speaker 1: the acrobatic jewel thief no as Catwoman, Selena's friend and

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Speaker 1: lover Anika. She was last seen with the Mayor and

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Speaker 1: members of Falcone's gang. She has mysteriously vanished from the scene,

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Speaker 1: and Selena, heartsick, missing her friend, terrified for her well being, investigates.

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Speaker 1: Batman's investigation intersects with Selena's search for Edika, and an

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Speaker 1: alliance of sorts is formed. An alliance, I guess that's

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Speaker 1: what you call it when there's a lot of sexual

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Speaker 1: tension between two characters who definitely want to get together,

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Speaker 1: but there's a lot of things keeping them from each other.

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Speaker 1: The Riddler also feels like he's an alliance with Batman,

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Speaker 1: but from afar. His murders and his horrifying videos are

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Speaker 1: in the Riddler's twisted mind. Kind of a conversation with

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Speaker 1: the Batman, who clearly has inspired the Riddler and is

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Speaker 1: inspiring currently inspiring a new wave of diabolical and violent

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Speaker 1: criminal in the Gotham underworld. The clues draw Batman to

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Speaker 1: his past, some long hidden trauma involving his parents. Not

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Speaker 1: the thing you think, folks, Guess what spoiler, no murder scene.

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Speaker 1: You don't get it. Bruce's parents, Thomas and Martha. Martha

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Speaker 1: was troubled, we learned in this movie, and spent some

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Speaker 1: time at at Arkham having had a breakdown. Thomas at

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Speaker 1: that time was in the midst of a run for mayor,

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Speaker 1: and he covered up his wife's mental health struggles with

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Speaker 1: the help of Bum Bum Bum Carmine Falcone. Now you

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Speaker 1: could argue that Thomas didn't know that Carmine Falcone was

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Speaker 1: going to murder the reporter who was reporting on Martha's troubles.

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Speaker 1: I would argue that that's crazy. If you ask Carmine

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Speaker 1: Falcone to help you with something, guess what the fuck

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Speaker 1: is going to happen?

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Speaker 2: Naivety, come on at any rate.

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Speaker 1: Thomas is implicated in that the Riddler we discover was

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Speaker 1: a orphan whose life was impacted by the death of

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Speaker 1: Thomas Wayne, whose foundation funded various charitable programs throughout Coffin City,

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Speaker 1: and it is heavily suggested in this movie by numerous characters,

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Speaker 1: various characters, that Carmine Falcone had something to do with

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Speaker 1: the murders of Thomas and Martha. Where do you fall

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Speaker 1: on that particular question, Rosie.

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Speaker 2: I think that this movie lays out a lot of

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Speaker 2: really good stuff about Bruce's past, and this way they

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Speaker 2: deal with the Thomas and Martha stuff is like some

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Speaker 2: of my favorite agreed. I love it because, like I

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Speaker 2: like the idea, like, of course, this guy who's a

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Speaker 2: billionaire philanthropist probably knows the mob. Like they set up

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Speaker 2: a reasonable reason for it here, which is he saved

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Speaker 2: Carmine's life, you know, and that's actually that's actually in

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Speaker 2: the Long Halloween comics, so it's taken directly from the comics.

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Speaker 2: But like, I believe that John to Torro, who is

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Speaker 2: unbelievable is Carmen Falcon. He is so good that Carmine

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Speaker 2: when I see him on the screen, I believe he

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Speaker 2: organized it. I one hundred percent believe that he organized

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Speaker 2: it because Thomas in the end was still a good

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Speaker 2: enough guiy to want to go to the police and

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Speaker 2: be honest about what happened, because he was mortified, you know,

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Speaker 2: But something I really loved is there's this moment, you know,

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Speaker 2: Alfred and Bruce look together. Alfred is played by circus

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Speaker 2: Andy Serkis's. He's not in the movie very much, but

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Speaker 2: one of the big scenes is he says, you know,

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Speaker 2: I've spent every day trying to work out if it

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Speaker 2: was like Morony, who obviously is a big batman villain

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Speaker 2: from comics past and other stuff, or Falcone, and then

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Speaker 2: he goes, but it could also just be some hungry

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Speaker 2: kid who got scared when he was doing a robbery

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Speaker 2: and shot them. And I kind of love the ambiguity

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Speaker 2: there because it doesn't really matter. It's just the fact

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Speaker 2: they died is what drives Bruce, and even when he

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Speaker 2: has an idea of who it might have been, he

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Speaker 2: realizes the most important thing is like vengeance is actually

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Speaker 2: incredibly a dangerous motive that inspired are the dangerous people.

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Speaker 2: And I just thought it was very I love this movie.

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Speaker 1: I love the Thomas and Martha Wayne stuff too. I

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Speaker 1: think that the comics for a while have long had

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Speaker 1: a more nuanced view of Bruce's parents, particularly Thomas, whereas

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Speaker 1: in the movies, you know, Thomas and Martha always these

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Speaker 1: saintly figures who like are so loving cared about the

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Speaker 1: underclasses of Gotham City. We're trying to make everything better.

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Speaker 1: It just simply tracks someone who is that rich, that powerful,

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Speaker 1: and is also running for mayor and also knows how

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Speaker 1: to get in contact with the biggest mobster in Gotham

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Speaker 1: City would have some skeletons in the closet. Now, I

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Speaker 1: think they did a really cool job of like walking

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Speaker 1: that tightrope where Thomas is dirty but it's still kind

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Speaker 1: of deniable, and also like the more financial type crimes

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Speaker 1: were probably not his fault. I thought this was done

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Speaker 1: really well. I'll say here's my theory, based on nothing

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Speaker 1: but watching the movie and reading Batman comic books. I

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Speaker 1: think Falcone probably wanted to kill Thomas. I think that

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Speaker 1: whether it's Joe Cool or whoever it is that killed

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Speaker 1: Thomas and Martha in Crime Alley, I think that was

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Speaker 1: just happenstance, random, and I think Carmine was relieved, like, ooh,

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Speaker 1: that's great that I don't have to do that murder

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Speaker 1: of a very very very very famous person in Gotham

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Speaker 1: and nationally even and internationally when you think about like

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Speaker 1: Wayne Industries. But I am very happy to let people

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Speaker 1: think that I did it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I also think like you. I think you absolutely

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Speaker 2: sum up something that's so good about this Carmine as well.

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Speaker 2: Gotham is such a shithole, like corrupt, terrible that he's

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Speaker 2: just an opportunist. He doesn't this this kind of whole

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Speaker 2: puppet master aspect that he has is not really something

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Speaker 2: that it seems like he planned. He just took advantage

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Speaker 2: of the corruption and the awful greed that existed there.

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Speaker 2: So in the same way that would actually make so

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Speaker 2: much sense where it's like someone else killed you know,

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Speaker 2: Joe Chill killed the parents, or someone mugged them or

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Speaker 2: whatever you want to do, Jack Napier, I mean.

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Speaker 1: You don't know, we don't know what because no, no,

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Speaker 1: you know what.

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Speaker 2: I actually have a joke call Joe Chill mash up tato.

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Speaker 2: So I take full blame for anyone getting anyone getting

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Speaker 2: them mixed up. But yeah, no, I love that it

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Speaker 2: makes so much sense that it would just he's a

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Speaker 2: lucky motherfucker. Like when you watch this movie, everything is

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Speaker 2: just like everything has worked out for him until this young,

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Speaker 2: vulnerable woman who is essentially like an escort or a

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Speaker 2: sex worker in Anika is harmed, and then these two

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Speaker 2: really broken people, Selena and Bruce, come to this place

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Speaker 2: and he's just taken down by them because they don't

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Speaker 2: just put up with it, and it's it's there's a

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Speaker 2: lot I love about this movie, but I love that

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Speaker 2: he's kind of derailed by just two people caring well

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Speaker 2: three because Jim Gordon is a big ally in this movie.

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Speaker 2: But that's such a good point. It's like he would

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Speaker 2: just be like, that was lucky.

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Speaker 1: Everything else my life. Yeah, I don't have to. I

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Speaker 1: don't have to get involved in it. That's like, you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm a lucky guy. That's why I'm in the position

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Speaker 1: that i'm And we should add in this movie, it

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Speaker 1: is revealed that Selena is Carmine Falcone's illegitimate daughter. Now

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Speaker 1: this has been hinted at, most notably in The Long Halloween.

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Speaker 1: It's it's heavily alluded to, but this is the first

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Speaker 1: time I can remember where it is explicitly stated that

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Speaker 1: she is his daughter.

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Speaker 2: So this is like a really interesting complex bit of

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Speaker 2: comic book history because, like you said, it's alluded to,

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Speaker 2: Selena suggests it in a canon way in the sequel

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Speaker 2: to the Long Halloween, which is called Dark Victory by

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Speaker 2: the same creative team, and then the one place that we.

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Speaker 1: Saw slow because you don't want to say, I'll tim

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Speaker 1: sales up.

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Speaker 2: Beautiful in the in the sequel, it's it's stated that

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Speaker 2: Selena thinks that. And then what I found out while

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Speaker 2: I was getting ready for this podcast getting ready for Batman.

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Speaker 2: In the Long Halloween adaptation of the movie, they actually

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Speaker 2: in the animated version, they actually do also suggest it.

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Speaker 2: But here is the first time we've seen it, being

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Speaker 2: like this is this is this is this is true.

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Speaker 2: And I think that's really an interesting point about the

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Speaker 2: animated movies because like those a lot of us know

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Speaker 2: the d c AU as we call it DC Animated

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Speaker 2: Universe with the kind of more original movies that they

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Speaker 2: they create. But the adaptations have actually played a lot,

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Speaker 2: a lot into this movie. Because the animated adaptation of Hush,

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Speaker 2: which is obviously a big influence on this movie, in

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Speaker 2: that version, they decided instead of it being Thomas Elliot

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Speaker 2: who it is in the comics, who's Bruce's old best friend,

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Speaker 2: they revealed that Hush is the Riddler. And I think

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Speaker 2: that's like, oh yes, boy, this movie. But like that,

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Speaker 2: and then the fact that Selena is revealed as Carmene's

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Speaker 2: story here, I'm like Matt Reeve's secret animation fan, Like

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Speaker 2: did he watch those movies? Like, I think that's really cool.

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Speaker 3: Oh.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing that we kind of should probably

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Speaker 2: mention in regards to Thomas and Martha is in this version,

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Speaker 2: they say that Martha Wayne was an Arkham, right, she

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00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 2: was actually an Arkham, one of the two founding families

430
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 2: of Gotham, the Waynes and the Arkhams. And that does

431
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 2: have like a comic book presidence. In the Geoff Johns

432
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 2: Gary Frank Batman Earth One in that version she is

433
00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 2: Martha Arkham Wayne. So but it's not very common. And

434
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,280
Speaker 2: I think that was a moment where, like when I

435
00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: was in the cinema, a lot of people like whoa,

436
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:50,360
Speaker 2: and then they get their notebooks out because it's like, oh,

437
00:25:50,359 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: we haven't. That's that's kind of wild. So I think

438
00:25:52,640 --> 00:25:54,840
Speaker 2: that that's another cool aspect.

439
00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,879
Speaker 1: Sprinkling of earthwe stuff in this movie. This movie culminate

440
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,440
Speaker 1: in the Riddler's plot to blow the dams surrounding Gotham,

441
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:10,680
Speaker 1: flooding the city and trapping many of the most notable

442
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:15,720
Speaker 1: citizens of the city along with various other thousands of

443
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 1: people at Gotham's version of Madison Square Garden, the name

444
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,600
Speaker 1: of which I forget. I think it's a Gotham Square Garden.

445
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,080
Speaker 2: Which just like Gotham squag Goddity, Yeah.

446
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 1: Something like that. Those who survived the waters would then

447
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: be gunned down by the Riddler's eighth Chen army, some

448
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:37,680
Speaker 1: five hundred strong followers of the riddlers online content who

449
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:40,439
Speaker 1: were just big fans of his and showed up like

450
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:43,080
Speaker 1: with shotguns and masks that looked just like the Riddler.

451
00:26:43,359 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: Batman and the Catwoman save the citizens, including Gotham's Rookie Mayer,

452
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,600
Speaker 1: and with the help of an injection of a green

453
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:58,240
Speaker 1: substance which was a very notable Bruce manages to fight

454
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: off the Riddler's thugs, not all five hundred. We only

455
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,520
Speaker 1: see him beat up like maybe eight, so there's still

456
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:09,640
Speaker 1: like four hundred and forty two Riddler thugs out there somewhere.

457
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 1: In the end, the Riddler finds himself in a cell

458
00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:15,919
Speaker 1: next to a mysterious, criminally insane person who is the Joker.

459
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: Confirmed it's a joke.

460
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:19,679
Speaker 2: It's a joker.

461
00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 1: The Joker says, this city has a way of turning

462
00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,480
Speaker 1: people into clowns. I don't cry, you did so good.

463
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 1: I have a riddle for you, what do you value

464
00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,240
Speaker 1: more when you have fewer of them? A friend? Boom

465
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 1: gets it on the first try. And then at the

466
00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 1: end of the movie, we watch Selena and Bruce ride

467
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,200
Speaker 1: out through the countryside on the outskirts of Gotham together

468
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:46,840
Speaker 1: and then he goes right, she goes left towards Bloodhaven,

469
00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: and he returns to Wayne manor that's our movie, folks.

470
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: Let me ask you quickly. The green liquid that Bruce

471
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:59,040
Speaker 1: injects like into his thigh, I.

472
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: Think I see that because of the era of comic

473
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 2: book fan I am. I think it's some kind of

474
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:09,639
Speaker 2: Baine venoman and clinically, you know something that I think

475
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 2: a lot of us kind of laugh about is even

476
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: if it's not Baine, which seems very unreevesy in this world, though,

477
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:16,679
Speaker 2: I think there's a great way you could do it.

478
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,679
Speaker 2: But like Batman has a lot of fucking venom stories,

479
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,600
Speaker 2: Like there's a lot like venoms. There's always like some venom,

480
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 2: some organic venoms, some chemical. But yeah, I mean Matt

481
00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,720
Speaker 2: went the exact right amount of over the top it's

482
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 2: bright green, that could have been any color, but he went.

483
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:38,920
Speaker 1: And the effect it had on him, like he immediately

484
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: like he like.

485
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:44,080
Speaker 2: He got to really have like a big Robert Pattinson

486
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: like wild good time moment there where he's like yeah,

487
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: it's like it's just a close up on his face.

488
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 2: I was like, Oh, Rob, I'm so happy for you

489
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 2: that you really got to go all out.

490
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,200
Speaker 1: Final question before we get into the discussion, is Solomon

491
00:28:56,240 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 1: Grundy just like drowned now? Is he dead? Ah?

492
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 2: Dude, I wonder about that, you know, because like this

493
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:07,080
Speaker 2: movie took so much from the Arkham Games that the

494
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:10,400
Speaker 2: idea of having of a version of him, whether he's

495
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,239
Speaker 2: there's so many ways you could do it in this

496
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: kind of really stick world. I wonder if there's a

497
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: version of him that's floundering somewhere under the iceberg lounge.

498
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 1: Rosie, what are your thoughts on the Batman matt Reeves's

499
00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,720
Speaker 1: take an iconic pop cultural character.

500
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:29,479
Speaker 2: I love this movie.

501
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: I do.

502
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 2: I just can't get over. I did not think I

503
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 2: was gonna like this movie that much. Like I love

504
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,160
Speaker 2: Robert Patterson, I love Zoe Kravitz, I really like matt

505
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 2: Reeves's work. I've spoken to him a bunch of times.

506
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 2: I think he's really thoughtful guy. But the trailers just

507
00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 2: they didn't look like the movie in my opinion, like

508
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 2: the group it's it's it's a dark movie, but the

509
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:55,600
Speaker 2: cinematography by Greek Freezier is like unreal, and it's so

510
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 2: beautiful and there's so much romance. And I think the

511
00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 2: thing I love the it when I've been thinking about

512
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 2: it a lot, is like I love the stories that

513
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:09,640
Speaker 2: Matt chooses to tell in this world. Like it's essentially

514
00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 2: a seven day long detective story. Yes, and it's intimate,

515
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 2: and it's noari and it's inspired by It starts because

516
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,880
Speaker 2: a young woman who's vulnerable goes missing and her friend

517
00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,560
Speaker 2: and this weird guy dresses about decide to look for her.

518
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,320
Speaker 2: Like that's such an intimate there's no you know, And

519
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 2: I love the mcu I love Thanos, but there's no Gems.

520
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 2: There's not particularly like a mcguffin. Like this is just

521
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:37,880
Speaker 2: a really intimate, weird story. And it's three hours long.

522
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,160
Speaker 2: And I'm usually like a proponent of like I'm like

523
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 2: every movie could be ninety minutes, but I've thought so

524
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,080
Speaker 2: much and I actually would not cut any of this movie.

525
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 2: Like everything works, everything leads to something else, whether it's

526
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: an emotional thing, a vibes thing, whether it's like that

527
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:56,760
Speaker 2: big kind of gut punch reveal with the twist at

528
00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 2: the end with the Riddler. I just thought this movie

529
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,320
Speaker 2: is so good. I'm so happy I.

530
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 1: Loved it as well. Listen, if I had one nitpick,

531
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: and this is like a nitpick, it's not even a

532
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 1: real critique. Is that we could have got to the

533
00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: Ruler faster, That's all. But I loved it too. I

534
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 1: think it just captured a lot of the things that

535
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:18,680
Speaker 1: I think that I love about Batman, and I think

536
00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: a lot of people have loved about Batman, and it

537
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:25,040
Speaker 1: is truly it's the first Batman as a detective. Yes,

538
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 1: as the world's greatest detective movie ever. And it's crazy

539
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: that we've gotten We've went this far before getting this movie.

540
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:38,920
Speaker 1: It really is all about Bruce slash Batman, looking for evidence,

541
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: thinking about the clues, trying to figure out what's going on,

542
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: unraveling a mystery. There. Yes, he beats people up, but

543
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: he does a lot of grappling with grappling with the evidence,

544
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:59,240
Speaker 1: drawing out charts, like really using that incredible brain for

545
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 1: investigation that we get so much of in the comics

546
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,040
Speaker 1: and really haven't gotten that much of in the movies.

547
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: And the other thing I loved about it is, like,

548
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,200
Speaker 1: I guess because of the push to create like an

549
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,720
Speaker 1: interconnected DC EU with the Justice League and tying in

550
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 1: you know, all the existing members of the Justice League

551
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: into a single single movie property Superman, cyber Working, Aquaman,

552
00:32:28,480 --> 00:32:33,920
Speaker 1: et cetera, wonder Woman. There's it's we I've felt like

553
00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:40,720
Speaker 1: we got away from Batman as this crime fighter who

554
00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:46,160
Speaker 1: for the most part fights criminals and whose best most

555
00:32:46,400 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: iconic criminals are not like you know, being aside, are

556
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:54,800
Speaker 1: not like super powered mania like with you can fly

557
00:32:55,040 --> 00:32:57,960
Speaker 1: and can destroy things with their eyes or with ray

558
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 1: beams stuff like that. They're just like brilliant criminals, like

559
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: truly genius level criminals. Carme and Falcone just like a

560
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:14,040
Speaker 1: gangster mafia member, mafia boss par excellence, the Penguin a

561
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 1: very psychotic, violent gang member. The Riddler just a psycho

562
00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: like a psychopath like could not is not going to

563
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: beat anybody in a straight up fight, but has this

564
00:33:27,640 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 1: diabolical ability as a villainous super genius. To twist vulnerable

565
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 1: people's minds and to make into them becoming henchmen for him,

566
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:43,720
Speaker 1: and has a unique talent for just weaving these unbelievably

567
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:48,560
Speaker 1: intricate crime scenes. That kind of stuff. Where that frames

568
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 1: Bruce Batman as this street level protector of Gotham is

569
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 1: just for me. It's like the essence of who Batman is.

570
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: And I just I love that aspect of it. And

571
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: then I love that it draws on some of the

572
00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: most influential and iconic Batman stories that haven't been haven't

573
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: been touched yet long Halloween, Hush you said it that

574
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 1: essentially the Riddler is Hush in this in this version

575
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: of a Batman story.

576
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,600
Speaker 2: You know, they do the dark. The thing that especially

577
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 2: comes from Hush that I think so interesting is like

578
00:34:29,200 --> 00:34:32,480
Speaker 2: the Riddler is this like dark reflection of Bruce, like

579
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 2: he is what it's like if you're an orphan with

580
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 2: no money, with no support, with no Alfred, you know.

581
00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 2: I thought the relationship between Bruce and Alfred is so

582
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,319
Speaker 2: interesting because Bruce just does not respect the role that

583
00:34:44,360 --> 00:34:47,359
Speaker 2: Alfred has played in his life until he's gonna lose him,

584
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,480
Speaker 2: you know. And there's I think there's so much interesting

585
00:34:49,520 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 2: stuff there and it takes so directly from these comics,

586
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,040
Speaker 2: Like the Selena Kyle we see in this movie is

587
00:34:56,120 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 2: David Mazakelli's Selena Kyle from Year One. I was rereading

588
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:03,040
Speaker 2: and I was just like blown away by the way

589
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: that Matt translated, Oh yeah, there are And you know,

590
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:10,280
Speaker 2: I went to a Q and A with Matt and Robin,

591
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,200
Speaker 2: Zoe and a producer at a Warner Brothers and so,

592
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:16,279
Speaker 2: you know, Matt actually said that Zoe was so integral.

593
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:19,440
Speaker 2: She was bringing in comics and bringing in things and saying,

594
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 2: let's bring this panel to life. And I feel like

595
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:25,520
Speaker 2: you can really feel that love and kind of reverence

596
00:35:25,560 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: for that aspect of Batman that you're talking about, which

597
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:31,320
Speaker 2: is like, as soon as you put any character human,

598
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 2: whoever superpowered or not, next to Superman, you have to

599
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 2: change the scope of what they can do because Superman

600
00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 2: is a god, you know. So to have Batman in

601
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:46,240
Speaker 2: this space of being a detective, being somebody who actually

602
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: and this is something I think is so cool about

603
00:35:48,640 --> 00:35:51,959
Speaker 2: this movie is like you talked about these ground level

604
00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 2: hero like ground level villains, you know, who he can

605
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 2: fight against, which makes sense because he doesn't have any powers.

606
00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:00,640
Speaker 2: But something this movie does, Is it reckons the idea

607
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 2: that they wouldn't exist if Batman didn't exist.

608
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:05,799
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm glad that they did that because that is

609
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: a thing I mean, that's directly from Long Halloween. That

610
00:36:08,680 --> 00:36:14,799
Speaker 1: is one of the themes of that story. Is uh,

611
00:36:15,160 --> 00:36:18,160
Speaker 1: was it the appearance of Batman on the scene that

612
00:36:18,880 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 1: caused all of these diabolical criminals to up their game?

613
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:28,520
Speaker 1: They raised their level of viciousness and criminality and violence

614
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 1: in order to meet the challenge of Batman. Is isn't

615
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,720
Speaker 1: there some kind of symbiotic relationship between the crime fighter

616
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,839
Speaker 1: and the criminal? And I love that they went there.

617
00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, they went there so deep as well. And that's

618
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,520
Speaker 2: the Mobius you know the mobiust strip of Batman and

619
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,640
Speaker 2: the Joker who came first? Who is the fault? Like

620
00:36:49,000 --> 00:36:51,640
Speaker 2: could the Joker exist without Batman? Could Batman exist without

621
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:53,680
Speaker 2: the Joker? And they do that here so well. Like

622
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 2: the really famous scene from the trailer that I think

623
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,359
Speaker 2: got a lot of people excited is when he's he's

624
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 2: fighting gang who kind of look like a Joker gang

625
00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 2: or a mutant gang or a little bit like warriors,

626
00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:07,040
Speaker 2: which is a great scene. And the kid in that

627
00:37:07,080 --> 00:37:09,120
Speaker 2: who kind of cries. He ended up getting cast as

628
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,279
Speaker 2: Tim Draken Titans because people were just so stoked for

629
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 2: his emotional range that he showed in that moment. But

630
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 2: Batman says, I'm vengeance when they ask who he is,

631
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 2: you know, And the kind of final, big ending part

632
00:37:22,360 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 2: of the movie, he's fighting these ridd Lagoons and Jim

633
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 2: Gordon pulls the mask off one of the ridd Lagoons

634
00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 2: who literally is like about to mass shoot like women

635
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,200
Speaker 2: and children in an emergency situation. It's it's quite horrifying,

636
00:37:35,239 --> 00:37:39,879
Speaker 2: but very timely and feels quite raw that Matt chose

637
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 2: to go that way. And he looks at Jim Gordon

638
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 2: and he says, I'm vengeance. And that is just like

639
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 2: such a brutal wake up call for Bruce, Like it

640
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:54,279
Speaker 2: doesn't matter, it's intention versus impact. Yeah, you brought up

641
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:57,439
Speaker 2: the Punisher earlier, right, I was thinking a lot about

642
00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,279
Speaker 2: how this movie is in conversation with superhero stuff that's

643
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 2: come before, because the Punisher was not created. I think,

644
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 2: you know, Jerry Conway didn't create the Punisher so that

645
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 2: he would become a right wing ion. But the notion

646
00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:12,000
Speaker 2: of the Punisher in the stories that have been told,

647
00:38:12,120 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 2: and the idea of this lone wolf vigilante and his

648
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:18,080
Speaker 2: symbol of the skull that has been appropriated, and the

649
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:20,960
Speaker 2: impact versus the intention. The impact is what we think

650
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 2: of now, we think about the skull on people's cars,

651
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 2: we think about the way that it's been utilized by

652
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 2: the far right. And I kind of love that this

653
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,400
Speaker 2: is like a Batman story and it's like intention versus impact.

654
00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:34,719
Speaker 2: Like Batman wants to do something good. I guess he

655
00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 2: wants to do something to make God them better, but

656
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 2: his impact has been horrific.

657
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,799
Speaker 1: You make a good point, because one of the things

658
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,160
Speaker 1: I've been thinking about a lot with this movie is

659
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,839
Speaker 1: that I think there's a world in which you could

660
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:49,920
Speaker 1: argue this is like the best Bruce Wayne like character

661
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 1: evolutionary arc in a Batman, in a Batman movie, certainly

662
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,120
Speaker 1: in the Christopher Nolan The Post Christopher Nolan. Here a

663
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,240
Speaker 1: Batman begins, Okay, Bruce Wayne.

664
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 2: And we see Johnny.

665
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 1: He journeys right, but he doesn't like fundamentally evolve. I

666
00:39:06,239 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 1: think in the Dark Knight there's some evolution there, and

667
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: then you know, in the Dark Knight returns. I think

668
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: he's basically the same guy In this movie, Bruce Wayne

669
00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:18,359
Speaker 1: starts off saying, I am vengeance. I am I am

670
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: avenging the murder of my parents every time I crunch

671
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,680
Speaker 1: my knuckles into the face of some thug, every single time,

672
00:39:29,760 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: I am avenging that murder. Through that process, we get

673
00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:36,600
Speaker 1: to a place with Bruce where, towards the end of

674
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:40,960
Speaker 1: the movie, he one realizes that, wait a second, maybe

675
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: what I'm doing running around in a black bat costume,

676
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:52,640
Speaker 1: driving the streets in this souped up supercharger batmobile, maybe

677
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:58,200
Speaker 1: it is causing the criminals to become more violent and

678
00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 1: more intense. Maybe that is happening. And if I'm going

679
00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 1: to do this, I've got to be more than vengeance

680
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:08,160
Speaker 1: because I can't do it without the city. I need

681
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:13,880
Speaker 1: to I need to inspire Gotham, the people of Gotham,

682
00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: to try and reach a higher level, to hopefully transcend

683
00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:23,920
Speaker 1: all this violence, all this criminality, all this corruption, so

684
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:26,360
Speaker 1: that they realize that they can do something better. And

685
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,799
Speaker 1: the only way that we can achieve that is one.

686
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:30,840
Speaker 1: I can't be this lone wolf figure. I have to

687
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,440
Speaker 1: try and do it with the city of Gotham, with

688
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 1: the people, and the only way I can do that

689
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:38,799
Speaker 1: is to try and inspire them somehow to be a

690
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: more hopeful figure than this just sulking shadow of vengeance

691
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,319
Speaker 1: that I've been. And that's the place we arrive at

692
00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:48,319
Speaker 1: at the end of this movie. And I thought that

693
00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: that was, like, that is the spirit of Babman, that

694
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: is Batman to me, and it captured it in a

695
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,680
Speaker 1: way that felt like really essential to the character. And listen,

696
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,120
Speaker 1: I love batmanigans, I love Dark Knight. I'm not so

697
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,040
Speaker 1: hot on the third movie, but I think that this

698
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:09,759
Speaker 1: captures an essential piece of Batman Bruce Wayne DNA that

699
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:12,359
Speaker 1: hasn't been shown before in this particular way.

700
00:41:12,719 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: I totally agree. It was like such an unbelievable surprise,

701
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: and I think it kind of cemented how much I

702
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 2: love I was really I really enjoyed the movie, like

703
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 2: I love the dark noise, I love the detective. But

704
00:41:22,280 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 2: to have that arc from kind of like brutal, you know,

705
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 2: the guy who he's saving in that opening sequences like

706
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 2: please don't hurt me, like he is this figure of

707
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:33,880
Speaker 2: fear right and that's always why he chose the Batta,

708
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:35,840
Speaker 2: et cetera. Though they don't get into that in this movie.

709
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,240
Speaker 2: But to have that ending the moment where he decides

710
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 2: he's gonna help and he leads the the you know,

711
00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 2: the new mayor and all these citizens, the kid of

712
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,200
Speaker 2: the mayor who was the previous mayor who was killed,

713
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,319
Speaker 2: and he leads him out with this flair and he

714
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 2: sort of has this realization that the first thing he

715
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,399
Speaker 2: has to do is actually like help people. I found

716
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: that to be such a like great moving, surprisingly like

717
00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:02,239
Speaker 2: hopeful ending. Just I was so I thought that was

718
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:04,759
Speaker 2: so great. I just I really that added a lad

719
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 2: to me that we haven't had in anything.

720
00:42:06,680 --> 00:42:09,319
Speaker 1: I agree it. I really felt like, oh, they get it,

721
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,680
Speaker 1: they get who this character is, and I didn't. I mean,

722
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 1: I certainly didn't see it in Dawn of Justice or

723
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:20,799
Speaker 1: you know, any of the Affleck Batman properties. Back to

724
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,440
Speaker 1: what you were talking about, with the influence of Batman,

725
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: ye're one by Frank Miller and the great David mass Ukelly.

726
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:33,719
Speaker 1: On this movie, particularly the look of it, there's a

727
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: panel that is just like etched in my mind. And

728
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: it's so Bruce hasn't settled on the Batman costume, right,

729
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,759
Speaker 1: but he is doing some like ground level work to

730
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,200
Speaker 1: try and figure out, Okay, what is it like on

731
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:50,600
Speaker 1: the streets. If I'm just gonna walk around, I need

732
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:52,319
Speaker 1: to get the energy of it. So he's walking through

733
00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:55,000
Speaker 1: like Gotham's version of Times Square, addressed as like this

734
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: guy with a fake he's got a fake scar on

735
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,759
Speaker 1: his face and he's got this beanie and he's just

736
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,520
Speaker 1: walked around and he ends up tussling with a pimp.

737
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: And this is his first meeting with Selena Kyle. And

738
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:10,120
Speaker 1: the way that panel is drawn, with the seediness of it,

739
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: the lights of the of the signs of the various

740
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:16,520
Speaker 1: storefronts in this particular area of Gotham City, the way

741
00:43:16,520 --> 00:43:19,560
Speaker 1: they shine, and the rain and the grittiness and all

742
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:24,480
Speaker 1: the different like characters skulking about on the street. That

743
00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:29,560
Speaker 1: is what has been translated in every scene of this movie.

744
00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,120
Speaker 1: It's really fantastic. They did an amazing job with that.

745
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,279
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask about the Joker. Does this mean

746
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 1: that at some point in the first year of Batman's

747
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:44,880
Speaker 1: career that he had captured the Joker? Or is this

748
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 1: like a pre pre chemicals, pre red hood a Joker?

749
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:54,560
Speaker 1: What do we think is happening here?

750
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,680
Speaker 2: Okay, so what we see in the in the little

751
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:01,520
Speaker 2: glimpse that we get, oh, Yeah, it's the unseen Arkham inmate,

752
00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 2: as he has credited, is played by Barry Kohn, which

753
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: a lot of people thought it was going to be.

754
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 2: You might have most recently seen him in my favorite movie,

755
00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:11,759
Speaker 2: Eternal Druig, but now he obviously took one of the

756
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: most like this is like the hottest roll you could

757
00:44:14,239 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 2: for the last fifty years in Hollywood, is like to

758
00:44:16,719 --> 00:44:19,080
Speaker 2: play the Joker, so that what we do see is

759
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 2: actually this really horrific like gnarly like bubbled kind of

760
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,320
Speaker 2: scre next to his mouth, and he has the little

761
00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:29,920
Speaker 2: curly hair. It looks actually quite like this brilliant frank

762
00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 2: quietly cover he did for Joker number one, and I

763
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,560
Speaker 2: think it was from last year. It was very monstrous,

764
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,600
Speaker 2: you know, which which I thought was really great. I

765
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 2: think because of Matt Reeves, because of the way this

766
00:44:41,360 --> 00:44:43,200
Speaker 2: movie is and the things that we love about it.

767
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:46,720
Speaker 2: I think you're absolutely spot on that this is someone

768
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 2: that Batman has tussled with before. Maybe in his earlier

769
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,360
Speaker 2: years when he was more violent, he wasn't thinking about

770
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 2: these things. Especially. I could imagine you mentioned, you know,

771
00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:59,959
Speaker 2: red Hood. I could imagine Matt taking from that ass

772
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 2: spect of the killing joke, which is obviously like very

773
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:04,680
Speaker 2: controversial but also like one of the most iconic Batman

774
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,960
Speaker 2: stories of all time by Alan Moore and Brian Boland.

775
00:45:08,239 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 2: And the origin that they kind of reconfigure there from

776
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:15,040
Speaker 2: different parts of Batman history is he's this sad comedian

777
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:17,879
Speaker 2: and he wants to support his family, gets lured into

778
00:45:17,960 --> 00:45:22,480
Speaker 2: this terrible thing gets you know, he gets terribly disfigured,

779
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,840
Speaker 2: and he becomes a Joker. I could imagine a version

780
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 2: of that where like there is a tragic origin to

781
00:45:27,719 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 2: the Joker that ties Bruce and the Joker together, and

782
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,719
Speaker 2: I think it's it's funny because it's like, obviously this

783
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 2: is like there's going to be another movie and that's cool,

784
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,280
Speaker 2: But like this actually, to me had much more impact

785
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 2: than that, because I think, like we talked a lot

786
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,080
Speaker 2: about the hopefulness of this movie, and I think that

787
00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: ending with a Bruce who wants to do better and

788
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,719
Speaker 2: then setting up a collision with like the most chaotic,

789
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:55,800
Speaker 2: nihilistic like evil character is just so heartbreaking and could

790
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,960
Speaker 2: be like so cool. So I think you're onto it.

791
00:45:59,000 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: I think this means that in his first year, this

792
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 2: was someone who an action that Bruce committed impacted. It

793
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:07,880
Speaker 2: might not have been direct. Maybe he did something.

794
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: I think that's probably right.

795
00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:11,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe he did something that affected his life. Maybe

796
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 2: he you know, crashed the Batmobile and killed his family

797
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 2: like some kind of tragic He is the reason the

798
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,800
Speaker 2: Joker exists. I think that is very likely.

799
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,440
Speaker 1: Another thing I wanted to mention is this is a

800
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,399
Speaker 1: thing I did not see coming. Basically, the place where

801
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:32,960
Speaker 1: this movie ends is a version of the beginning of

802
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: the Batman No Man's Land arc, in which an earthquake

803
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:43,600
Speaker 1: in that particular instance, you know, destroys vast pieces of

804
00:46:43,640 --> 00:46:45,800
Speaker 1: Gotham City, which is then like cut off from everybody

805
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: else and it's isolated, and then Batman is it has

806
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:53,280
Speaker 1: to like bring structure and rule of law and order

807
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: to this isolated Gotham city that has been half destroyed

808
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,920
Speaker 1: to cut off from the rest of the world. I

809
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 1: did that think that we were gonna end up in

810
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: that place at the end of this movie. Like that

811
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:08,120
Speaker 1: was really a surprise for me.

812
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:11,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, the third act in this movie just it's the

813
00:47:11,680 --> 00:47:14,640
Speaker 2: one thing that I would understand. I think you can

814
00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:17,399
Speaker 2: objectively say it's like a jarring choice, but I think

815
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 2: that it works because of the nature of who the

816
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:23,359
Speaker 2: Riddler is. We've all basically been underestimating him the entire time,

817
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: just like Batman, and this is how this happens. But yeah,

818
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,040
Speaker 2: it's really funny, like immediately that's what I thought of

819
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:33,200
Speaker 2: No Man's Land, iconic stuff like just and yeah, and

820
00:47:33,239 --> 00:47:35,719
Speaker 2: it comes off to cataclysm where there's this earthquake and

821
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:38,719
Speaker 2: essentially what happens is the reason that I think this

822
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 2: is actually will I think that No Man's Land will

823
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,600
Speaker 2: be a big influence on if we get a second

824
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 2: one of these movies. I agree because Matt Reeves really

825
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:49,920
Speaker 2: loves like a political story, and one of the big

826
00:47:49,960 --> 00:47:53,720
Speaker 2: parts of that story is like the US basically kicks

827
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 2: Gotham out, and also that could fit into the notion

828
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,560
Speaker 2: where when we leave Gotham there is essentially no government,

829
00:47:59,760 --> 00:48:02,520
Speaker 2: there is no police. It is a space that Bella

830
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,839
Speaker 2: Reale and Jim Gordon and Batman are going to try

831
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 2: and reimagine to be better. And if it's isolated from

832
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 2: the rest of the country the rest of the world,

833
00:48:12,360 --> 00:48:14,759
Speaker 2: that gives them more kind of space to imagine a

834
00:48:14,800 --> 00:48:17,840
Speaker 2: different way of living, but it also obviously makes it

835
00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:20,799
Speaker 2: much harder for them to get help when inevitably, you

836
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:24,080
Speaker 2: know the Penguin, Yes, the Riddler and the Joker, who

837
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 2: are apparently going to team up. You know, they could

838
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,760
Speaker 2: all come out. And there's been precedent in Batman stuff,

839
00:48:28,760 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 2: And if you've seen the Harlequin animated series, they did

840
00:48:31,160 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 2: a really funny version of it. But like Gotham could

841
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:36,360
Speaker 2: end up in a situation where there's multiple different areas

842
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 2: run by different famous Batman.

843
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 1: Bill Here's what I love about if that is the

844
00:48:41,560 --> 00:48:46,440
Speaker 1: case for our sequel to The Batman. It's a perfect

845
00:48:46,640 --> 00:48:52,760
Speaker 1: on ramp for the arrival of Huntress, for the arrival

846
00:48:53,040 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 1: of Robin or night Wing or both. It's the perfect

847
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:03,680
Speaker 1: on ramp kind of store worry for the arrival of Oracle.

848
00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:07,200
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, Jim Gordon Yep is doing a great

849
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: job by himself as the only clean cop from the

850
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 1: Gotham City Police Department, but he's he would need help help.

851
00:49:15,760 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: What better help than the the Hacker par excellence Oracle.

852
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: This it's a it would be a great way to

853
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: introduce in a very natural, very grounded, very like early

854
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,040
Speaker 1: in their careers type of way, all of these characters

855
00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:33,480
Speaker 1: from from Batman's pantheon.

856
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, Matt Reeves has actually said, like, this is not

857
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:38,919
Speaker 2: an origin story for Bruce. We don't see the death,

858
00:49:38,920 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 2: we don't see anything else. But what it is is

859
00:49:40,719 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 2: it's an origin story for every rogue that we see,

860
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,640
Speaker 2: the version of the Joker we see in the unseen

861
00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:48,840
Speaker 2: okhom inmate. You know, Matt said, it's the character you

862
00:49:48,840 --> 00:49:51,520
Speaker 2: think it is, but it's not he He isn't the

863
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 2: Joker yet, He's not that version. So I think that's

864
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 2: such a brilliant idea. And you know what Matt has

865
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: done here as well that we haven't really given him

866
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:00,680
Speaker 2: a lot of credit for, but like he is. Also

867
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:05,600
Speaker 2: he has broken the contemporary curse of too many villains. Yes,

868
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 2: we all know that that can be a problem. Now, Look,

869
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 2: Noay Home did a great job, but you could argue

870
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:13,160
Speaker 2: about the villainous nature. It was a lot more ambiguous

871
00:50:13,200 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: than some kind of a fun kind of nostalgia trip.

872
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 2: But he had multiple villains here. I mean, Colin Farrell,

873
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:22,600
Speaker 2: I'll give him ten out of ten. I loved he

874
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,120
Speaker 2: was so good. I loved this sweetheart. I loved how

875
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:28,120
Speaker 2: he was kind of this dick tracy almost. Also, like

876
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,799
Speaker 2: there was this aspect of the fantastical Batman smashes his

877
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,200
Speaker 2: head against the window, he doesn't bleed, He's fine. It's

878
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:37,080
Speaker 2: like Kingpin almost, Like yeah, so I'd love to see

879
00:50:37,640 --> 00:50:40,719
Speaker 2: where does the line if you introduce all these different characters,

880
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 2: Like where does that line drawn? Like who has these

881
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:47,320
Speaker 2: edges of superpowers? And also, just like you mentioned Oracle.

882
00:50:47,360 --> 00:50:49,960
Speaker 2: One of my favorite things about this movie is when

883
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,239
Speaker 2: so Bruce and Selena team up and Selena puts in

884
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:56,640
Speaker 2: his little retrofuturistic contact lenses and she goes into the

885
00:50:56,640 --> 00:50:59,879
Speaker 2: club and Batman is Oracle. Batman is the man behind

886
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:03,040
Speaker 2: the screed that made me he's talking to Selena. It's

887
00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: so well done and it's such a good understanding of

888
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 2: the things that people want to see in these movies,

889
00:51:08,520 --> 00:51:10,320
Speaker 2: but Matt just does them a little bit differently.

890
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: There was another moment just like that that was very

891
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: small that made me just like grin and it's they've

892
00:51:17,440 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 1: they've gone into the club. They've arrested Oswald Copplepot the penguin,

893
00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 1: and his hands are in the cuffs. He's like, does

894
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:30,400
Speaker 1: this little penguin waddle because he's like tied up, And

895
00:51:30,760 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: it was just a really really small moment that was

896
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 1: really really good. That just is one of those things

897
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:40,200
Speaker 1: that is a signal like, don't worry, we understand what

898
00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,799
Speaker 1: we're doing here, which was just really great. As we

899
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,200
Speaker 1: start talking about just our Batman reading list, stuff that

900
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:51,000
Speaker 1: both influenced this movie and that we just really like,

901
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,080
Speaker 1: I realized that we should bring in a producer, Chris,

902
00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,000
Speaker 1: who is a huge Batman fan, to get his take. Chris,

903
00:51:58,440 --> 00:51:59,400
Speaker 1: come into the pod.

904
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:01,919
Speaker 4: I moved to the Podcrist.

905
00:52:03,719 --> 00:52:04,560
Speaker 2: Welcome to Golfer.

906
00:52:04,680 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, welcome to Gossip.

907
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:07,680
Speaker 1: Chris.

908
00:52:09,120 --> 00:52:12,600
Speaker 5: What did you think of this movie? I, like Rosie,

909
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 5: I was very skeptical, Yeah about this going in, very

910
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:19,200
Speaker 5: very skeptical, and Rosie was kind of to not dissuade

911
00:52:19,200 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 5: me of those notions beforehand, which I appreciated because I

912
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,760
Speaker 5: was like, it looks I'm so tired of everything being gritty,

913
00:52:24,800 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 5: Like can we not have another director out grit to

914
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:28,200
Speaker 5: previous ones?

915
00:52:28,239 --> 00:52:30,839
Speaker 6: It's like that's it was like this constant contest, and

916
00:52:30,880 --> 00:52:33,680
Speaker 6: then what you were talking about earlier with it ending

917
00:52:33,719 --> 00:52:35,960
Speaker 6: on a hopeful note. It's like I was one of

918
00:52:36,000 --> 00:52:37,960
Speaker 6: the few people that didn't like The Dark Knight when

919
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:39,960
Speaker 6: it came out, specifically because I thought the ending was

920
00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,520
Speaker 6: very not a Batman choice. Yep, and this is the

921
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:47,000
Speaker 6: exact opposite ending. It's a hopeful Batman. It's one that

922
00:52:47,040 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 6: I thought we would never see, to be honest, especially

923
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 6: not coming out of this movie, and I was blown

924
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:52,920
Speaker 6: away by it.

925
00:52:52,920 --> 00:52:54,520
Speaker 7: I think it's the Batman movie. I've been winning a

926
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,880
Speaker 7: whole life to see. Ye Like, I can't say if

927
00:52:57,880 --> 00:52:59,840
Speaker 7: it's the best one. I think any of the re

928
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:01,959
Speaker 7: is it one more time, but.

929
00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 6: Certainly I am so impressed with everything everyone did on it,

930
00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 6: and being the huge animated series fan that I am,

931
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 6: this is like.

932
00:53:11,160 --> 00:53:14,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's like that the animated series DNA is all

933
00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: of the voiceover stuff, It's it's great.

934
00:53:17,960 --> 00:53:21,560
Speaker 6: I never thought we'd get an animated series inspired movie

935
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:23,520
Speaker 6: and it was this one. I was like, it's felt

936
00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:24,759
Speaker 6: like it was gonna be the opposite.

937
00:53:25,040 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 7: I was blown away. It's so it's so incredibly fun.

938
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 1: Favorite moment from the movie.

939
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,640
Speaker 6: I think it's probably the car chase. I mean, I'm

940
00:53:31,719 --> 00:53:34,040
Speaker 6: I'm a huge.

941
00:53:34,640 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 1: We didn't even talk about these set pieces so good.

942
00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:40,239
Speaker 7: I mean, I'm I'm a huge huge.

943
00:53:40,280 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 6: Like if it's weird as it is, like a battlebile

944
00:53:42,680 --> 00:53:44,919
Speaker 6: stand like I have my my little collection of Lego

945
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,440
Speaker 6: battle Biles kind off camera over here, and then when

946
00:53:47,440 --> 00:53:49,560
Speaker 6: I first saw the car, I'm like, ah, I'm kind

947
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 6: of where's like the comic book style version? And then

948
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 6: I watched it like, oh, this makes perfect sense. He

949
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:56,200
Speaker 6: builds it himself. It's this monster. I guess it's like

950
00:53:56,280 --> 00:53:57,359
Speaker 6: Christine inspired Matt.

951
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:02,520
Speaker 2: When you see it first light up, You're like, is

952
00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:05,319
Speaker 2: he even in there? Like is this car possessed?

953
00:54:05,560 --> 00:54:06,319
Speaker 6: You know it?

954
00:54:06,600 --> 00:54:08,520
Speaker 2: And I think, like I was just we should shout

955
00:54:08,520 --> 00:54:12,960
Speaker 2: out Francesco Francavilla, who did these Batman seventy two concept

956
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,719
Speaker 2: arts that were definitely a huge influence on not only

957
00:54:15,719 --> 00:54:18,359
Speaker 2: the Batmobile, but like his Batman has a caller, like

958
00:54:18,440 --> 00:54:21,359
Speaker 2: they would definitely look into that. So I just so good.

959
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:25,480
Speaker 1: I should add that. That's the other thing, Uh you

960
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:31,000
Speaker 1: mentioned it. There's no Lucius Fox, you know, genius engineer

961
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:37,280
Speaker 1: who has been overseeing like various military progress, secret military

962
00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:41,880
Speaker 1: programs and routing that hardware to Bruce Wayne. This is

963
00:54:42,160 --> 00:54:45,560
Speaker 1: a young Batman who's like, I got to do all

964
00:54:45,560 --> 00:54:47,920
Speaker 1: this shit myself, Like I have to build my own car,

965
00:54:48,320 --> 00:54:51,320
Speaker 1: I have to I have to source my own electronics,

966
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 1: I have to create nine suit all of this it

967
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 1: all works, it's all functional, but it's also like, there's

968
00:54:58,160 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 1: a rough edge to a lot of this stuff. It's

969
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 1: a little janky, it's a little blockie, it's a little like, Okay,

970
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,759
Speaker 1: let's just bolt this thing on to this other thing

971
00:55:07,239 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 1: and see if it works. And I love that aspect

972
00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:12,360
Speaker 1: of it because it again just a different take on

973
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:17,560
Speaker 1: Batman that is different from the film perspective, but also

974
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:21,520
Speaker 1: feels part and parcel to what is essential about the character.

975
00:55:21,560 --> 00:55:22,760
Speaker 1: I'm glad you enjoyed it, Chris.

976
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:25,360
Speaker 7: Yeah, thanks for letting me come on and sure my thoughts.

977
00:55:25,640 --> 00:55:26,560
Speaker 7: It's you can talk about this.

978
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:31,960
Speaker 1: So okay, Rosie, let's talk about our our reading slash

979
00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,359
Speaker 1: watching list. Why don't you get us started with if

980
00:55:35,400 --> 00:55:38,719
Speaker 1: you like this movie or if you just are like

981
00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:40,960
Speaker 1: I like this and I want more Batman stuff. I

982
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,439
Speaker 1: just want to know what else to dive into. Where

983
00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:45,359
Speaker 1: would you point people to start with?

984
00:55:45,560 --> 00:55:48,960
Speaker 2: Look in my life where I'm at now, it's rather

985
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:51,840
Speaker 2: you're gonna hear me recommend to Frank Miller. Comeck, but

986
00:55:51,880 --> 00:55:56,360
Speaker 2: I will say Frank Miller's number one talent.

987
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:58,920
Speaker 1: Frank had a great nineteen eighty seven. Let's just know

988
00:55:59,000 --> 00:56:00,399
Speaker 1: what it well, let's be real.

989
00:56:00,960 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 2: And also like the other thing is his great talent

990
00:56:03,239 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 2: is his collaborators Lynn Varley's colors on the Dark Night.

991
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:10,400
Speaker 2: You would never remember that book if it wasn't for

992
00:56:10,480 --> 00:56:14,320
Speaker 2: Klaus Jansen and Lin Vallely. So like Batman, ya one,

993
00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,280
Speaker 2: I think that is the book you have to read

994
00:56:18,360 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 2: after this, Like it blew my mind. I've read it

995
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:25,160
Speaker 2: like so many times since I saw the movie, and

996
00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,840
Speaker 2: I'm one it's it because the way that Mazakelli brings

997
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,760
Speaker 2: the world together and creates it and the absolute streamlined,

998
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 2: stripped back nature means it's like I read this comic

999
00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 2: with no qualms or worries. There was nothing in it

1000
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:43,279
Speaker 2: that had some of the worst tendencies of Miller's work.

1001
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 2: And like the representation of Selena as this badass sex

1002
00:56:47,360 --> 00:56:50,080
Speaker 2: worker who just absolutely loves her friend and will do

1003
00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:54,160
Speaker 2: anything to help her, whose costume design is like these

1004
00:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,600
Speaker 2: latex pants and this corset with a shaved head. It

1005
00:56:57,680 --> 00:57:01,759
Speaker 2: looks like Zoe Kravitz. I mean, it's unbelievable, the collar work.

1006
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:04,920
Speaker 2: There's actually a panel of Selena in her window that

1007
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 2: they took directly for the movie that I'm so tempted

1008
00:57:08,000 --> 00:57:10,200
Speaker 2: to get tattooed because I'm just obsessed with the way

1009
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:13,120
Speaker 2: Maza Kelly drew this book. It's a Batman detective story.

1010
00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:15,239
Speaker 2: It's the early years of his life. It's seen through

1011
00:57:15,239 --> 00:57:17,720
Speaker 2: the eyes of Jim Gordon, Jeffrey Wright. We didn't even

1012
00:57:17,760 --> 00:57:20,720
Speaker 2: say how brilliant he is my favorite Jim Gordon.

1013
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 1: He is great. I mean, Jeffrey Wright is one of

1014
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:27,000
Speaker 1: those for me, is like the late Philip Seymour Hoffman

1015
00:57:27,320 --> 00:57:30,200
Speaker 1: has never has been in bad movies, but has never

1016
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: been bad, Yeah, in anything ever. I love Jeffrey Right.

1017
00:57:33,880 --> 00:57:35,680
Speaker 1: I think he's been great and everything he's ever done.

1018
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,680
Speaker 2: It's a great Jim Gordon story. It's a great Batman story.

1019
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,040
Speaker 2: It's a great Selena story. I think if you read this,

1020
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,600
Speaker 2: you're going to be like, Wow, You're gonna feel like

1021
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 2: you're seeing a little bit of something special from what

1022
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:49,720
Speaker 2: kind of went into making this comic. So that's my

1023
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:50,720
Speaker 2: first one. What about you?

1024
00:57:50,840 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: I couldn't agree more. Batman You're One is a comic book.

1025
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:57,720
Speaker 1: I got it as a trade. It's a comic was

1026
00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:00,560
Speaker 1: that really changed? It really changed the way I read

1027
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,120
Speaker 1: comics like it is. First of all, it sets in

1028
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:09,760
Speaker 1: stone what I think of as Batman, as Batman's origin,

1029
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: the way Gotham looks like to this day, if I

1030
00:58:13,840 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: pick up a bronze age Batman, Neil Adams Batman, it

1031
00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,000
Speaker 1: looks like Batman. But what I think of as Gotham

1032
00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:26,520
Speaker 1: is what David Mazuchelli drew. Yeah, that's what I think about,

1033
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,800
Speaker 1: and it is iconic. It's so so good. It tells

1034
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 1: this incredible story of Bruce Wayne returning to the city

1035
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:41,080
Speaker 1: after years away, deciding that he has to do something.

1036
00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:45,560
Speaker 1: He has to do something about this, the crime that

1037
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,760
Speaker 1: is taking over the streets of the city he loves,

1038
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 1: and he doesn't really know what to do, but he

1039
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:55,200
Speaker 1: settles on somehow making criminals afraid that justice is finally

1040
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:57,800
Speaker 1: coming for them, and he settles on the iconography of

1041
00:58:57,800 --> 00:59:02,040
Speaker 1: the Batman. Everything about the way the panel's look about again,

1042
00:59:02,120 --> 00:59:05,439
Speaker 1: Frank Miller, I feel the same way, Frank Miller. There's

1043
00:59:05,520 --> 00:59:08,520
Speaker 1: a fascist streak to Frank Miller. That's a turnoff for

1044
00:59:08,600 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: me that set, and it's very evident. In the dark.

1045
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,520
Speaker 1: Knight returns his.

1046
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,760
Speaker 2: Other vigilantes as well, Like it's easy to lean into it.

1047
00:59:18,760 --> 00:59:23,760
Speaker 1: But his work in this is fantastic and I've never

1048
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:27,439
Speaker 1: felt more like I understood what Bruce Wayne was going

1049
00:59:27,440 --> 00:59:29,240
Speaker 1: through than Batman. You're one. I just love it. I

1050
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:32,120
Speaker 1: think it's one of the greatest comic book stories ever

1051
00:59:32,240 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 1: told in a perfect wedding of words and artists.

1052
00:59:38,680 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you know, I love the comic book

1053
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:44,000
Speaker 2: shop experience. We both do. I will say, if you

1054
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:47,280
Speaker 2: can find a copy of these it's four issues long. Yeah,

1055
00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,120
Speaker 2: you can find them in comic shops. There used to

1056
00:59:49,160 --> 00:59:51,160
Speaker 2: be a dollar. Now they're around ten to fifteen to

1057
00:59:51,160 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 2: twenty depending on where you go. But if you can

1058
00:59:53,040 --> 00:59:56,400
Speaker 2: find one, it's worth getting, even just that first issue.

1059
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:59,439
Speaker 2: The original colors on the news print, it doesn't look

1060
00:59:59,480 --> 01:00:02,120
Speaker 2: like anything else. That doesn't look else.

1061
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:05,360
Speaker 1: That's a great point. Thank you for saying that, because

1062
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people out here are probably

1063
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:14,960
Speaker 1: reading comics on Marvel Unlimited or DC's similar app or

1064
01:00:15,080 --> 01:00:18,880
Speaker 1: through formally through Comicology, or however you're reading it. The

1065
01:00:19,000 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: colors and the way it looks are so different than

1066
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:24,520
Speaker 1: on the page when you get the printed book, especially

1067
01:00:24,560 --> 01:00:27,480
Speaker 1: stuff from that era, that it is a really different

1068
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:32,400
Speaker 1: and strangely textural and visceral experience when you read it

1069
01:00:32,440 --> 01:00:35,040
Speaker 1: in the comic that's a great point. So if you

1070
01:00:35,080 --> 01:00:37,040
Speaker 1: can find that, eBay is another way you can do it,

1071
01:00:37,080 --> 01:00:40,080
Speaker 1: But go to your comic shop you can probably find it. Next,

1072
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,000
Speaker 1: I'm going to pick, and I think you'd probably agree

1073
01:00:43,640 --> 01:00:49,160
Speaker 1: Jeff Lobe and Tim Sales the thirteen issue limited series

1074
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: The Long Halloween. It just looks fantastic. It's a great story.

1075
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:59,240
Speaker 1: If you liked the energy and the tone and the

1076
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: vibe of Matt Reeves the Batman. Guess what, The Long

1077
01:01:02,680 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 1: Halloween is probably the story that most influences that movie,

1078
01:01:08,280 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 1: and just get it because it is incredible, like whiffs

1079
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:17,120
Speaker 1: of The Godfather, whiffs of Taxi Driver, whiffs of every

1080
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: great like Batman story that had ever been told up

1081
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:23,160
Speaker 1: to that point. One of the most devilish jokers. The

1082
01:01:23,200 --> 01:01:26,960
Speaker 1: way Tim Sayle like renders the Joker is like almost

1083
01:01:27,040 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 1: like a stick figure with these bizarre angles to his

1084
01:01:30,000 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 1: elbows and bees. It's great.

1085
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:35,920
Speaker 2: Ten out of ten agree. Also, I think, like if

1086
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,240
Speaker 2: you're getting if you love this stuff like I like

1087
01:01:39,320 --> 01:01:41,680
Speaker 2: we do, which you know we obviously do, and you

1088
01:01:41,680 --> 01:01:44,080
Speaker 2: do because you're listening. Yeah, but like, The Long Halloween

1089
01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:47,360
Speaker 2: is a great place if you read that comic and

1090
01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,400
Speaker 2: you go and see this movie you're gonna be able

1091
01:01:49,440 --> 01:01:52,680
Speaker 2: to get the absolute joy of like seeing where they

1092
01:01:52,720 --> 01:01:55,000
Speaker 2: took things from. You can call them me strikes, you

1093
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:57,440
Speaker 2: can call them hidden details, you can call them references.

1094
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:00,160
Speaker 2: But The Long Halloween is a great comic book where

1095
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:01,880
Speaker 2: you'll be able to go, oh, that's where that's from,

1096
01:02:02,000 --> 01:02:03,520
Speaker 2: and you'll be able to share that with people. You'll

1097
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:05,000
Speaker 2: be able to be like, oh, yeah, this is where

1098
01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:08,200
Speaker 2: you know the whole thing about Carmen and Bruce's dad

1099
01:02:08,280 --> 01:02:11,560
Speaker 2: being being friends. You know, there's a reason that the

1100
01:02:11,600 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 2: first thing we really hear Bruce say is the date,

1101
01:02:15,200 --> 01:02:17,600
Speaker 2: which is the thirty first of October. Like Matt Reeves

1102
01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:19,880
Speaker 2: wants you to know this, read The Long Halloween.

1103
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,760
Speaker 1: The Carmine Falcone in The Long Halloween is the Carmine

1104
01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:27,800
Speaker 1: Falcone in the h Okay, what do you have next?

1105
01:02:28,160 --> 01:02:29,760
Speaker 2: Okay, you know, I'm just gonna this is going to

1106
01:02:29,760 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 2: be addition to the last one if you see it.

1107
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 2: The Dark Victory follow up too Long Halloween. That's got

1108
01:02:35,320 --> 01:02:38,040
Speaker 2: a lot of stuff with Selena and Falcone that seems relevant.

1109
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:39,600
Speaker 2: But the one I'm actually going to say you should

1110
01:02:39,800 --> 01:02:42,160
Speaker 2: definitely read this is by Icon, who I know we

1111
01:02:42,240 --> 01:02:45,360
Speaker 2: both love and this was the first book I believe

1112
01:02:45,400 --> 01:02:47,800
Speaker 2: that Matt said was one of his biggest inspirations on

1113
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:50,720
Speaker 2: the DC fandom. Introduction of the Trailer A Long Time Ago,

1114
01:02:51,120 --> 01:02:55,040
Speaker 2: which is Ego and other Tales, And it's the iconic

1115
01:02:55,160 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 2: Darwin Cook, the stunning art of Darwin Cook, one of

1116
01:02:57,640 --> 01:03:01,360
Speaker 2: the most iconic, absolutely iconic catwoman artists of all time,

1117
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,400
Speaker 2: and Paul Grist. And this is really interesting because when

1118
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: Matt said this was an inspiration, I was like, Ego.

1119
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:10,360
Speaker 2: I was like this, But when you read it, not

1120
01:03:10,440 --> 01:03:13,760
Speaker 2: only is it stunning, but like it's a story about

1121
01:03:13,800 --> 01:03:17,720
Speaker 2: Bruce versus Batman. It's a story about Bruce living with

1122
01:03:17,840 --> 01:03:20,640
Speaker 2: the guilt of being Batman, and he thinks that he's

1123
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:24,000
Speaker 2: committed this horrendous crime, and he's trying to live with

1124
01:03:24,120 --> 01:03:27,400
Speaker 2: the guilt of the pros and cons of being Batman,

1125
01:03:27,640 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 2: the greater good versus the small sacrifice, the idea of

1126
01:03:31,240 --> 01:03:33,320
Speaker 2: Batman as a figure of hope rather than a figure

1127
01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:37,000
Speaker 2: of fear, and so much of the emotional DNA of

1128
01:03:37,040 --> 01:03:41,320
Speaker 2: that story obviously influenced Matt and Robb's kind of vision

1129
01:03:41,360 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 2: for the Batman.

1130
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:44,760
Speaker 1: I love Darwin Cook's art as well. There's like a

1131
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 1: how would you describe it, it's like almost like a

1132
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:52,640
Speaker 1: Norman Rockwell, like a real a classic, almost like nineteen

1133
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:57,120
Speaker 1: fifties and early sixties advertising style.

1134
01:03:57,840 --> 01:04:01,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like Batman the animated series meets Norman Rockwall,

1135
01:04:01,280 --> 01:04:03,400
Speaker 2: Like you know, the opening of one division that everyone

1136
01:04:03,520 --> 01:04:06,120
Speaker 2: really loved. I think it was episode three, those kind

1137
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:11,280
Speaker 2: of Bewitched esque cartooning that's just so evocative and fun

1138
01:04:11,320 --> 01:04:15,520
Speaker 2: and honestly one of the most respected kind of cartoonist

1139
01:04:16,040 --> 01:04:19,600
Speaker 2: style cartoonists in comics. Like he makes stuff that looks

1140
01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 2: like cartoons, but it still has this emotional heft that

1141
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:23,600
Speaker 2: people really respect.

1142
01:04:23,920 --> 01:04:26,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it. Okay, next, I guess I will

1143
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:31,280
Speaker 1: pick my next one would be Hush by Jeff Looba

1144
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: Jim Lee. Jefflobe really had a run here in the

1145
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:35,960
Speaker 1: nineties with Batman and Hush.

1146
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:36,800
Speaker 2: Is uh.

1147
01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:43,400
Speaker 1: The Riddler's arc from the Batman is very influenced by Hush,

1148
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:51,400
Speaker 1: the mysterious bandage faced criminal who, through guile, through intellect,

1149
01:04:51,720 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: through a mischievousness, through a certain kind of criminal genius,

1150
01:04:56,520 --> 01:05:02,000
Speaker 1: manages to manipulate various members of bat Man's rogues gallery

1151
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 1: into conflict with Batman in a way that obscures Hush's identity,

1152
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:13,960
Speaker 1: which is eventually unveiled, not necessarily in the Hush story,

1153
01:05:14,000 --> 01:05:17,160
Speaker 1: although Batman does guess who it is, but later on

1154
01:05:17,240 --> 01:05:20,439
Speaker 1: in the sequel to the story. It's great. Hush is great.

1155
01:05:20,520 --> 01:05:22,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, Hush is like the thing that I love a

1156
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 2: lot about. It is like it's this kind of absolute

1157
01:05:26,800 --> 01:05:29,720
Speaker 2: unbelievable mix of this really intimate story about Batman and

1158
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:32,400
Speaker 2: his best friend who spoiler alert may or may not

1159
01:05:32,440 --> 01:05:35,000
Speaker 2: be Hush, and you. That's kind of the big arc

1160
01:05:35,120 --> 01:05:37,000
Speaker 2: is like, wow, Batman had a friend who went through

1161
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,520
Speaker 2: a similar situation. But every issue is also like an

1162
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:42,720
Speaker 2: outrageous villain of the week. And jim Lee, who's like

1163
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:45,440
Speaker 2: ten out of ten Icon love him so much, just

1164
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,600
Speaker 2: like killing it at DC Image Founder. I am like

1165
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:50,960
Speaker 2: his number one fan. He has so much fun in

1166
01:05:51,000 --> 01:05:53,040
Speaker 2: this book. I was rereading it and the h.

1167
01:05:53,120 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: Is just bonkers.

1168
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:57,440
Speaker 2: Like him and Tom mcfallan are like probably my another

1169
01:05:57,480 --> 01:06:01,960
Speaker 2: Image founder, probably one of my am I warring Batman

1170
01:06:02,120 --> 01:06:05,000
Speaker 2: faves because like I love a good cape and those

1171
01:06:05,000 --> 01:06:05,720
Speaker 2: two love a cap.

1172
01:06:05,840 --> 01:06:10,120
Speaker 1: He's got listen there is Jimily loves a cape and

1173
01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 1: he loves like Batman full on punching someone in the

1174
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:19,040
Speaker 1: face and putting Batman's entire body in the panel with

1175
01:06:19,120 --> 01:06:23,120
Speaker 1: the cape like flapping in the background, or classic Jimily

1176
01:06:23,240 --> 01:06:28,640
Speaker 1: pose Batman like jump kicking somebody in the face. Yeah,

1177
01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,920
Speaker 1: with the with the legs kind of splayed out and

1178
01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:35,000
Speaker 1: the cape billowing in the background. If you love that

1179
01:06:35,520 --> 01:06:38,400
Speaker 1: Jimily shit, it is all over. Hush.

1180
01:06:38,800 --> 01:06:41,440
Speaker 2: You mentioned Huntress earlier and before we move on to

1181
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:44,920
Speaker 2: the next rend, Like there is just there's this like

1182
01:06:45,160 --> 01:06:48,680
Speaker 2: Huntress splash page where she's wearing this costume with like

1183
01:06:48,720 --> 01:06:50,760
Speaker 2: the upside down cross and it's like a c out

1184
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:53,800
Speaker 2: window boob and she's like wearing these chunky boots. That

1185
01:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,960
Speaker 2: shit is so badass. Like I saw that when I

1186
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:57,640
Speaker 2: was rereading it for this and I was like, maybe

1187
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:00,080
Speaker 2: I need like a Huntress back piece. I'm like, this

1188
01:07:00,240 --> 01:07:03,040
Speaker 2: is like the most heavy metal shit just.

1189
01:07:02,880 --> 01:07:05,760
Speaker 1: Fucking goes fucking crazy and hush, to the point that

1190
01:07:05,800 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 1: Batman's like, Huntress needs to relax, Like Huntress, you're doing too,

1191
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 1: Like as he's laying there half stunned, He's like, Huntress,

1192
01:07:13,280 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 1: You're gonna have to chill. Okay up next, what is

1193
01:07:16,320 --> 01:07:17,320
Speaker 1: uh what else?

1194
01:07:17,760 --> 01:07:17,840
Speaker 5: Oh?

1195
01:07:17,880 --> 01:07:21,040
Speaker 2: Kay, I'm gonna go for we talked about Batman Animated series,

1196
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:23,000
Speaker 2: which I think is like such a huge influence on this.

1197
01:07:23,040 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 2: You should definitely watch it. I believe it's all on

1198
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,160
Speaker 2: HBO Max now, which is incredible because it was like

1199
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:29,840
Speaker 2: impossible to watch unless you had the DVDs for a

1200
01:07:29,840 --> 01:07:33,360
Speaker 2: really long time. But I'm actually gonna say, I'm gonna

1201
01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 2: say Mask of the Phantasm as we know that is

1202
01:07:37,920 --> 01:07:41,320
Speaker 2: like absolutely for a long time, a lot of people

1203
01:07:41,360 --> 01:07:43,080
Speaker 2: said that was the best Batman movie.

1204
01:07:43,080 --> 01:07:44,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, for a while, you know, And.

1205
01:07:44,640 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 2: I understand it because, like it's truly brilliant. It's one

1206
01:07:47,600 --> 01:07:50,600
Speaker 2: of the few DC movies that had a big scale

1207
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:54,400
Speaker 2: cinematic release in ninety nine three. It was such a

1208
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 2: formative movie, and I think that so there's elements that

1209
01:07:57,800 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 2: are similar in this Narratively, it's about Bruce facing down

1210
01:08:00,680 --> 01:08:03,080
Speaker 2: with this strange new foe and they have some kind

1211
01:08:03,120 --> 01:08:05,800
Speaker 2: of deep connection. I won't spoil it because like, legitimately

1212
01:08:05,800 --> 01:08:07,720
Speaker 2: you should watch this movie if you haven't seen it.

1213
01:08:08,040 --> 01:08:12,080
Speaker 2: But I one hundred percent think that this is like

1214
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:17,640
Speaker 2: the most influential Bruce Wayne On Robin Matt's Bruce in

1215
01:08:17,720 --> 01:08:20,599
Speaker 2: this movie, Like this is a Bruce who feels the burden,

1216
01:08:21,000 --> 01:08:24,240
Speaker 2: and I think Roberts actually talked about this being an

1217
01:08:24,280 --> 01:08:26,639
Speaker 2: influence because it's like, this is a Bruce who feels

1218
01:08:26,640 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 2: the burden of being Batman, Like he's not really the

1219
01:08:29,360 --> 01:08:33,439
Speaker 2: billionaire playboy. Just like in The Batman, Bruce's Bruce is

1220
01:08:33,479 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 2: like a weirdo. He lives in a train station and

1221
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,520
Speaker 2: like a weird Hogwarts kind of castle with the Alfredge

1222
01:08:39,560 --> 01:08:42,040
Speaker 2: like which I love. But like Mask of the Phantasm,

1223
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:44,559
Speaker 2: not only is it brilliant and I watched it already

1224
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:47,200
Speaker 2: way too many times, but like, I think that's a

1225
01:08:47,400 --> 01:08:52,439
Speaker 2: key exploration and early exploration of Bruce that was very

1226
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,800
Speaker 2: influential on this movie. Unexpectedly so because it's such a

1227
01:08:55,880 --> 01:08:57,680
Speaker 2: dark movie. But I definitely think there's a lot of

1228
01:08:57,760 --> 01:08:59,080
Speaker 2: animation influence.

1229
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: I agree with you. I think that here's the thing

1230
01:09:01,360 --> 01:09:04,080
Speaker 1: that's interesting about a character like Batman has existed now

1231
01:09:04,120 --> 01:09:07,080
Speaker 1: for what eighty years or something like that, like ninety,

1232
01:09:07,920 --> 01:09:12,200
Speaker 1: is that first of all the early Batman stuff, the formation,

1233
01:09:12,600 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 1: like the kind of solidifying of what we think as

1234
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:21,040
Speaker 1: Batman's origin story Cannon and Rise happened much more recently

1235
01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,600
Speaker 1: than you think for a character that has existed for

1236
01:09:23,640 --> 01:09:26,439
Speaker 1: eighty years, again, like Year one really went a long

1237
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,000
Speaker 1: way to codifying the way we think about Batman, the

1238
01:09:29,080 --> 01:09:31,320
Speaker 1: way we think about his rise and what motivated him

1239
01:09:31,320 --> 01:09:35,479
Speaker 1: to put on the cape and cowl. And similarly, I

1240
01:09:35,520 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 1: think Mask of the Phantasm and by extension, Batman the

1241
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:46,679
Speaker 1: animated series really defined Batman for a whole new generation

1242
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:50,280
Speaker 1: that came of age watching television in the nineties, and

1243
01:09:50,400 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: further on, there's a whole generation of people out there

1244
01:09:54,479 --> 01:09:58,240
Speaker 1: who Mark Hamill is the iconic Joker.

1245
01:09:58,520 --> 01:10:02,240
Speaker 2: Is the iconic Joke, Kevin Komri is Batman is.

1246
01:10:02,120 --> 01:10:06,800
Speaker 1: The iconic Batman. So I agree with you, these are huge, Okay?

1247
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:08,960
Speaker 1: Is it my turn? I think it is. Okay. I'm

1248
01:10:08,960 --> 01:10:12,240
Speaker 1: gonna say the Arkham Games, the Arkham video games, developed

1249
01:10:12,240 --> 01:10:16,639
Speaker 1: by rock Steady Studios and Warner Brothers Montreal, obviously strong

1250
01:10:16,680 --> 01:10:20,120
Speaker 1: aesthetic inspiration for the movie. I think in terms of

1251
01:10:20,200 --> 01:10:24,240
Speaker 1: defining and creating the image and audience's mind of what

1252
01:10:24,360 --> 01:10:29,559
Speaker 1: Batman action looks like. I think the Arkham Games absolutely like,

1253
01:10:29,960 --> 01:10:32,840
Speaker 1: at least for me, define what it means to watch

1254
01:10:32,920 --> 01:10:38,040
Speaker 1: Batman fight people, and that aesthetic that really brutal, like

1255
01:10:38,600 --> 01:10:41,559
Speaker 1: you know, dodge a punch, bash somebody in the face

1256
01:10:41,600 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: and take their head and like smash it into r

1257
01:10:45,439 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: kind of thing. That's the kind of action that you

1258
01:10:47,439 --> 01:10:51,799
Speaker 1: see in the Batman, and it's so addictive to play

1259
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:54,519
Speaker 1: and to be a part of. In the Arkham games,

1260
01:10:54,800 --> 01:10:57,720
Speaker 1: they're just I mean Arkham Asylum, I think is one

1261
01:10:57,720 --> 01:11:00,240
Speaker 1: of my favorite games of all time. It is an

1262
01:11:00,240 --> 01:11:03,800
Speaker 1: incredibly addictive game. It is a game that I have

1263
01:11:03,960 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: right now downloaded on both my PlayStation and my Xbox,

1264
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,639
Speaker 1: and it is a game that, like I would pay

1265
01:11:10,800 --> 01:11:14,479
Speaker 1: right if anybody from WB Montreal A. Roxaday is listening,

1266
01:11:15,640 --> 01:11:17,800
Speaker 1: I've played your game so many times, but now I

1267
01:11:17,840 --> 01:11:19,800
Speaker 1: have a new Now I have a new version of it,

1268
01:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,439
Speaker 1: right because I have the new consoles, I will pay

1269
01:11:23,520 --> 01:11:26,320
Speaker 1: somebody upwards of one hundred dollars to just unlock the

1270
01:11:26,520 --> 01:11:28,600
Speaker 1: entire games so that I can go in and just

1271
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,040
Speaker 1: play the fight levels and just that's it. I don't

1272
01:11:32,080 --> 01:11:34,000
Speaker 1: want to go through the missions anymore. I don't want

1273
01:11:34,000 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 1: to do that. I just want to go directly to

1274
01:11:37,040 --> 01:11:40,599
Speaker 1: the minigame where I fight like fifty different dudes all

1275
01:11:40,640 --> 01:11:43,639
Speaker 1: at once, and I need that unlocked. So if anybody

1276
01:11:43,720 --> 01:11:46,439
Speaker 1: from from Rock City is out there listening and can

1277
01:11:46,439 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: do that for me, please get a hold of me.

1278
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:49,960
Speaker 1: The Arkham Games two thousand and nine to present.

1279
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:53,360
Speaker 2: I totally agree. Like it kind of blew my mind

1280
01:11:53,880 --> 01:11:57,519
Speaker 2: when I saw the opening fight and it's just the

1281
01:11:57,520 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 2: Malle fight. I mean, he's picking things up off the floor.

1282
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:03,360
Speaker 2: It feels like I got so addicted to those those

1283
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,559
Speaker 2: Arkham Games. Like I'm really a I'm a platform person

1284
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,040
Speaker 2: and a fighting game person and like his elder person,

1285
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:11,240
Speaker 2: and I like in the games, but like I got

1286
01:12:11,240 --> 01:12:14,360
Speaker 2: addicted to those games because the fight mechanism is so good,

1287
01:12:14,840 --> 01:12:16,600
Speaker 2: and to see that brought to life here, I just

1288
01:12:16,640 --> 01:12:19,920
Speaker 2: think it's so influential. And also, like another great thing

1289
01:12:19,920 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 2: about the Arkham Games. Maybe you don't want to dig

1290
01:12:21,880 --> 01:12:23,760
Speaker 2: into all these comics you don't know, maybe your pull

1291
01:12:23,760 --> 01:12:26,960
Speaker 2: list is really high, maybe you don't have the access

1292
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:28,960
Speaker 2: to them right now, but you do have the Arkham Games.

1293
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:31,920
Speaker 2: Guess what, so many things that are mentioned in this movie,

1294
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:36,160
Speaker 2: the Iceberg Lounge, Blackgate, all these different criminals that you see,

1295
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:39,439
Speaker 2: the Joker gangs who influence those opening gangs, the fights.

1296
01:12:39,720 --> 01:12:43,040
Speaker 2: You can play the Arkham Games again now through the

1297
01:12:43,160 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 2: lens of this movie, and you're gonna discover a load

1298
01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:48,360
Speaker 2: of stuff and be like, oh yeah, yeah, that's from there.

1299
01:12:48,439 --> 01:12:51,400
Speaker 2: That's from there. And like the the fight director, the

1300
01:12:51,479 --> 01:12:54,880
Speaker 2: stunt coordinator, Robert Alonso, he just did such a good job.

1301
01:12:54,960 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 2: Like the fights in this movie, they have this crushing impact.

1302
01:12:58,520 --> 01:13:00,960
Speaker 2: You know, A lot's been made about this film about

1303
01:13:00,960 --> 01:13:03,240
Speaker 2: how this is a Batman who doesn't kill, and I'm like,

1304
01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 2: he might think that, but like, I'm pretty sure he

1305
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,320
Speaker 2: killed at least one guy in that fast fight because

1306
01:13:08,560 --> 01:13:14,160
Speaker 2: these fights feel so visceral and real and brutal, but

1307
01:13:14,240 --> 01:13:16,920
Speaker 2: in a way that feels very grounded. It doesn't it

1308
01:13:16,960 --> 01:13:19,479
Speaker 2: almost doesn't sound like this Foley. You know that there is,

1309
01:13:19,520 --> 01:13:22,439
Speaker 2: but you feel the fights and I think the inspiration

1310
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:24,880
Speaker 2: from the Okham games is really key to that.

1311
01:13:25,600 --> 01:13:28,439
Speaker 1: And let me say that a Batman Arkham Asylum, I

1312
01:13:28,479 --> 01:13:34,360
Speaker 1: think deals with the toxic relationship that is the Batman

1313
01:13:34,479 --> 01:13:38,799
Speaker 1: Joker relationship in a way that is I think maybe

1314
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 1: my favorite exploration of that symbiotic, that extremely toxic symbiotic relationship.

1315
01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:51,000
Speaker 1: It's maybe my favorite exploration of that relationship in any comic,

1316
01:13:51,240 --> 01:13:55,599
Speaker 1: in any Batman movie, in anything, because the interactivity, the

1317
01:13:55,640 --> 01:13:58,160
Speaker 1: interactive nature of games just makes you a part of it,

1318
01:13:58,200 --> 01:14:02,080
Speaker 1: and it really does not shirk from this idea that

1319
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:07,360
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, Batman can't end the Joker threat. And

1320
01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:10,400
Speaker 1: it makes you wonder and it makes you grapple with

1321
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:15,200
Speaker 1: the question of does he on some level like it,

1322
01:14:15,280 --> 01:14:17,080
Speaker 1: does he need the Joker in some way?

1323
01:14:17,439 --> 01:14:17,519
Speaker 2: Uh?

1324
01:14:17,680 --> 01:14:20,280
Speaker 1: And that is really cool and a really cool question

1325
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:22,280
Speaker 1: to grapple with in the in the context of a

1326
01:14:22,320 --> 01:14:23,040
Speaker 1: Batman story.

1327
01:14:23,560 --> 01:14:27,559
Speaker 2: I think it's also very key if we're looking at

1328
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:31,160
Speaker 2: what could influence the next movie, that relationship and that

1329
01:14:31,240 --> 01:14:33,719
Speaker 2: vision of it, especially after Venom, all these different things.

1330
01:14:34,120 --> 01:14:36,160
Speaker 2: I think that, yeah, I think that could be there'd

1331
01:14:36,160 --> 01:14:39,679
Speaker 2: be a smart way to go, Okay, you next Okay,

1332
01:14:39,840 --> 01:14:42,559
Speaker 2: So we can't we mentioned it, but I do think

1333
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:46,559
Speaker 2: that if you are going to if you want to

1334
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:49,080
Speaker 2: really know where it could go next, you got to

1335
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,040
Speaker 2: read that. So there's I'm going to tell you there's

1336
01:14:51,080 --> 01:14:54,439
Speaker 2: three comics, one that I think Reeves were influenced by,

1337
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 2: and then two that we've kind of mentioned. I'll mention

1338
01:14:57,520 --> 01:15:01,599
Speaker 2: that in there is a comic quite recent comics Scott Snyder,

1339
01:15:02,120 --> 01:15:05,719
Speaker 2: who had a massively popular run on Batman, and it's years.

1340
01:15:05,880 --> 01:15:09,599
Speaker 2: It's called Zero Year, and it is three different parts

1341
01:15:09,600 --> 01:15:13,360
Speaker 2: of a story, and one of the parts is the

1342
01:15:13,479 --> 01:15:17,880
Speaker 2: Riddler flooding Gotham, so obviously I think Matt Reeves read that.

1343
01:15:18,160 --> 01:15:20,920
Speaker 2: It's really interesting. It's Scott Snyder. It has three different parts.

1344
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:22,960
Speaker 2: It also explores the idea of a ruined Gotham and

1345
01:15:22,960 --> 01:15:25,120
Speaker 2: how Batman deals with it, So I think that's worth

1346
01:15:25,200 --> 01:15:29,120
Speaker 2: checking out. And I will say though Zero Year and

1347
01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:32,800
Speaker 2: Batman's I mean Cataclysm and Batman No Man's Land, those

1348
01:15:32,840 --> 01:15:36,680
Speaker 2: are just so fun. They're so good. There's loads of

1349
01:15:36,680 --> 01:15:40,879
Speaker 2: great characters in there that I love, Leslie Tompkins, multiple

1350
01:15:40,880 --> 01:15:44,760
Speaker 2: different Batman rogues. You know, you have just so much

1351
01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:47,559
Speaker 2: there to kind of explore. Like when I worked in

1352
01:15:47,640 --> 01:15:50,160
Speaker 2: the comic shop in London, that was one of the

1353
01:15:50,160 --> 01:15:52,639
Speaker 2: ones where they had a big collection of No Man's Land,

1354
01:15:52,680 --> 01:15:54,280
Speaker 2: and I just read that in like a day. I

1355
01:15:54,320 --> 01:15:56,720
Speaker 2: was just like, yes, yes, yes, Like every page turn,

1356
01:15:56,760 --> 01:15:59,959
Speaker 2: I just wanted to read it. It's that fun, brilliant

1357
01:16:00,160 --> 01:16:03,639
Speaker 2: kind of comic stuff. Hilariously, I would never have guessed

1358
01:16:04,040 --> 01:16:06,120
Speaker 2: is almost certainly going to be a huge part of

1359
01:16:06,160 --> 01:16:07,080
Speaker 2: where we go from here.

1360
01:16:07,200 --> 01:16:11,400
Speaker 1: I think so too. Okay, the Telltale games. That's the

1361
01:16:11,520 --> 01:16:15,480
Speaker 1: Telltale Games. So for those of you who are not gamers,

1362
01:16:16,360 --> 01:16:22,479
Speaker 1: Telltale Games was a publishing company now defunct that licensed

1363
01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:28,800
Speaker 1: properties like The Walking Dead, like Batman, and told interactive

1364
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:33,920
Speaker 1: video game like they're not exactly action video game stories,

1365
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:36,599
Speaker 1: but they're more like choose your own adventure, pointing clip

1366
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:42,720
Speaker 1: type stories type video game stories that really hung their

1367
01:16:42,840 --> 01:16:48,880
Speaker 1: hat on strong writing and great storytelling, and they also

1368
01:16:48,920 --> 01:16:54,720
Speaker 1: did Game of Thrones adaptation story based on a previously

1369
01:16:55,600 --> 01:16:59,880
Speaker 1: unknown house from the Northern Kingdom, and the Telltale Games

1370
01:17:00,320 --> 01:17:03,680
Speaker 1: Batman's storytelling is just really good. It's great. It's a

1371
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:08,400
Speaker 1: great story. You are part of it. The storytelling choices

1372
01:17:08,439 --> 01:17:12,639
Speaker 1: are really strong, and the vibe, the energy, the tone

1373
01:17:12,840 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 1: is very similar to the Batman. It's just great. If

1374
01:17:16,880 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 1: you can find a way to play it in the

1375
01:17:18,560 --> 01:17:20,280
Speaker 1: year twenty twenty two, please play it.

1376
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:22,360
Speaker 2: I'm really glad you brought that up because I think

1377
01:17:22,400 --> 01:17:25,839
Speaker 2: that's actually a huge influence, not only because it's detective based,

1378
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:29,439
Speaker 2: it's all about vibes, it's that slow tale, but also

1379
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:33,840
Speaker 2: there was an entry Batman the Enemy Within, which is

1380
01:17:34,320 --> 01:17:36,360
Speaker 2: it introduced a version of the Riddler, who is like

1381
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 2: a sore trap killer. He's a serial killer and he

1382
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:42,680
Speaker 2: has these death traps they call them, and him and

1383
01:17:42,720 --> 01:17:45,799
Speaker 2: Batman get into this kind of battle of the wits

1384
01:17:45,880 --> 01:17:48,439
Speaker 2: for Batman to save the people that he's going to

1385
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:51,000
Speaker 2: kill in these death traps. And I'm sure that you know,

1386
01:17:51,200 --> 01:17:53,599
Speaker 2: the idea of the Riddler being a serial killer, especially

1387
01:17:53,640 --> 01:17:58,840
Speaker 2: modeled after the Zodiac, is very that's very natural experience

1388
01:17:58,920 --> 01:18:00,800
Speaker 2: like kind of thing that you have to go down.

1389
01:18:00,880 --> 01:18:03,840
Speaker 2: But I believe that Matt Reeves probably also knew about

1390
01:18:03,880 --> 01:18:07,000
Speaker 2: these games and had an understanding. I mean, this is

1391
01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:11,799
Speaker 2: a person who built his career making stories about heavily

1392
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:14,439
Speaker 2: cged stories that still like struck a heart with the

1393
01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 2: Apes movies, you know, so I would think he's probably

1394
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:20,800
Speaker 2: a game he's aware of games, or a gamer, because

1395
01:18:20,840 --> 01:18:22,240
Speaker 2: that feels very on point.

1396
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:25,920
Speaker 1: I agree with you, Rosie. You've, of course are writing

1397
01:18:25,960 --> 01:18:29,800
Speaker 1: a lot about this at different places. If people want

1398
01:18:29,800 --> 01:18:33,600
Speaker 1: to read more stuff about the Batman, what have you

1399
01:18:33,720 --> 01:18:34,919
Speaker 1: written for them?

1400
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:40,360
Speaker 2: Oh baby? Well so okay, Actually it is officially this

1401
01:18:40,479 --> 01:18:42,720
Speaker 2: week at NEDICT has been Batman week. So if you

1402
01:18:42,760 --> 01:18:45,080
Speaker 2: want a more broad scope of like I did, eleven

1403
01:18:45,160 --> 01:18:48,639
Speaker 2: movies to watch before Batman that are not DC movies, Clute,

1404
01:18:48,680 --> 01:18:52,000
Speaker 2: All Presents, Men, Chinatown, Boom, all these different kinds show girls,

1405
01:18:52,000 --> 01:18:55,200
Speaker 2: I love that movie. It's brilliant. I see those wigs

1406
01:18:55,200 --> 01:18:57,639
Speaker 2: that Zoe's wearing, I say, it's an influence. I did

1407
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:00,639
Speaker 2: a history of every origin that cat Woman has had

1408
01:19:00,680 --> 01:19:02,599
Speaker 2: in the comics and the movies and kind of looked

1409
01:19:02,640 --> 01:19:05,040
Speaker 2: at what that could say about Zoe. But if you've

1410
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 2: seen The Batman, then by the time this podcast is out,

1411
01:19:08,280 --> 01:19:10,320
Speaker 2: you will be able to read my Easter Eggs piece,

1412
01:19:10,400 --> 01:19:14,720
Speaker 2: which is three thousand words. We touched on some of them.

1413
01:19:14,960 --> 01:19:17,280
Speaker 2: It's actually such a joy to write about this movie

1414
01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:22,320
Speaker 2: because this is a movie with a lot of concrete references, nods, details.

1415
01:19:22,720 --> 01:19:27,240
Speaker 2: This is much less of my wild Charlie dyesque theorizing

1416
01:19:27,520 --> 01:19:31,240
Speaker 2: because the movie is just made. This is made of comics.

1417
01:19:31,400 --> 01:19:33,800
Speaker 2: You're gonna you will find more comics to read. You

1418
01:19:33,880 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 2: will explore different character aspects and where they came from.

1419
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,240
Speaker 2: So I did that. I did a big, ending, explained

1420
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:43,479
Speaker 2: piece about the character that we mentioned before, the joke

1421
01:19:43,479 --> 01:19:46,360
Speaker 2: here and kind of what that means for the comics.

1422
01:19:47,080 --> 01:19:49,599
Speaker 2: And yeah, just and also the Batman Week stuff. There's

1423
01:19:49,600 --> 01:19:52,080
Speaker 2: a ton of other amazing Batman pieces by all different

1424
01:19:52,160 --> 01:19:56,439
Speaker 2: kinds of writers. So that is all. It's Batman Batman's happening.

1425
01:19:56,479 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 2: I mean, I even wrote I got to write a

1426
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:00,519
Speaker 2: lot of fun stuff about Batman sixty six. We didn't

1427
01:20:00,520 --> 01:20:03,839
Speaker 2: really talk about this, but I truly believe the Batman

1428
01:20:03,920 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 2: doesn't exist without Batman sixty absolutely. Matt Reeves was five

1429
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:10,479
Speaker 2: when that movie came out. When the show came out,

1430
01:20:10,520 --> 01:20:12,800
Speaker 2: I think he said, and he loved it. He just

1431
01:20:12,840 --> 01:20:15,080
Speaker 2: thought it was really cool. He didn't see a campiness

1432
01:20:15,080 --> 01:20:17,439
Speaker 2: in it. So I've written a lot about that. I

1433
01:20:17,479 --> 01:20:19,920
Speaker 2: also have a piece coming up about how there's a

1434
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:23,439
Speaker 2: really cool Batman sixty six character nod in this movie,

1435
01:20:23,560 --> 01:20:27,040
Speaker 2: so all kinds of deep dives that you guys can enjoy.

1436
01:20:27,600 --> 01:20:31,600
Speaker 1: Well, Rosie, I am going to head directly turns to

1437
01:20:31,600 --> 01:20:34,880
Speaker 1: read those pieces right now. It's been so delightful to

1438
01:20:34,960 --> 01:20:56,080
Speaker 1: talk Batman with you. Up next the Omnibus. Welcome to

1439
01:20:56,120 --> 01:20:59,680
Speaker 1: another chapter in the Omnibus, where lore, analysis, and understanding

1440
01:20:59,680 --> 01:21:03,080
Speaker 1: come to together. This week sci fi and future war,

1441
01:21:03,160 --> 01:21:06,519
Speaker 1: real life conflicts, and science fiction. Science fiction and fantasy

1442
01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:11,240
Speaker 1: stories are about worlds, about created worlds, which means they

1443
01:21:11,240 --> 01:21:14,599
Speaker 1: are about rules, which is another way of saying sci

1444
01:21:14,640 --> 01:21:20,200
Speaker 1: fi stories. Fantasy stories are about structure. Very often, most

1445
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:27,400
Speaker 1: often These stories are about politics. They are about political maneuvering.

1446
01:21:27,560 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 1: They are often about war, very often about war between

1447
01:21:31,760 --> 01:21:36,680
Speaker 1: two species, two nations, planets, internasing, civil war, threat a

1448
01:21:36,800 --> 01:21:41,280
Speaker 1: galaxy you know from the unique vantage point provided by

1449
01:21:41,360 --> 01:21:47,839
Speaker 1: say Aracus, a desert planet teeming with the rare spice milange,

1450
01:21:47,960 --> 01:21:52,400
Speaker 1: or a magical school as in Harry Potter hopes anxieties

1451
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:56,320
Speaker 1: fears about the way people govern themselves, about the way

1452
01:21:56,840 --> 01:22:01,719
Speaker 1: governments relate to their citizens in these stories and really

1453
01:22:01,760 --> 01:22:05,479
Speaker 1: revealing in interesting ways. The mid nineteenth century was a

1454
01:22:05,520 --> 01:22:09,919
Speaker 1: revolutionary period. The rise of capitalism, fueled by the Industrial Revolution,

1455
01:22:10,160 --> 01:22:15,160
Speaker 1: was changing ways of life that existed for centuries, and nationalism,

1456
01:22:15,640 --> 01:22:18,320
Speaker 1: then pretty new, aided by a nascent news media, was

1457
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:22,160
Speaker 1: emerging from the death rattle of empires. In eighteen forty

1458
01:22:22,160 --> 01:22:26,960
Speaker 1: eight alone, political upheaval, ranging from street battles to actual

1459
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 1: full blown revolutions, racked France, the independent states of Italy

1460
01:22:31,560 --> 01:22:36,439
Speaker 1: and Germany, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Poland, Ireland, Romania, and the

1461
01:22:36,479 --> 01:22:41,680
Speaker 1: Austro Hungarian Empire, among many others. A generation later, the

1462
01:22:41,680 --> 01:22:44,680
Speaker 1: American Civil War, which stretched from eighteen sixty one to

1463
01:22:44,680 --> 01:22:48,439
Speaker 1: sixty five, and the Franco Prussian War shocked observers of

1464
01:22:48,479 --> 01:22:52,960
Speaker 1: the day with the modernity with which those conflicts were

1465
01:22:53,040 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 1: carried out. The war between the States saw the first

1466
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 1: clash of iron hulled chips, which was extremely alarming to

1467
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:03,280
Speaker 1: European observers. Saw the use of hot air balloons for reconnaissance.

1468
01:23:03,320 --> 01:23:05,880
Speaker 1: This had happened before, but still a fairly new thing.

1469
01:23:06,560 --> 01:23:11,160
Speaker 1: The instantaneous communication over long distances via telegraph, the first

1470
01:23:11,200 --> 01:23:16,360
Speaker 1: successful deployment of automatic weapons in Richard Jordan Gatling's Gatling Gun,

1471
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:22,559
Speaker 1: and casualty counts of a scale previously unimaginable. The Gatling

1472
01:23:22,560 --> 01:23:25,280
Speaker 1: gun also so used during the Franco Prussian War, and

1473
01:23:25,320 --> 01:23:30,600
Speaker 1: in both conflicts, marshaling the railroad system to transport personnel

1474
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 1: and equipment was a decisive factor in victory. The spectacle

1475
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:41,440
Speaker 1: of masses of people energized by issues of ethnicity, nationalism,

1476
01:23:41,760 --> 01:23:48,000
Speaker 1: class toppling h and governments freeing enslaved peoples fighting with

1477
01:23:48,080 --> 01:23:51,680
Speaker 1: industrial methods of warfare was fearful to behold, and it

1478
01:23:51,720 --> 01:23:54,719
Speaker 1: gave rise to a particular kind of military themed future fiction,

1479
01:23:55,280 --> 01:23:59,439
Speaker 1: best exemplified by Sir George Tompkin Chesney's eighteen seventy one

1480
01:23:59,479 --> 01:24:03,760
Speaker 1: novella A Battle of Dorking. The Battle of Dorking set

1481
01:24:03,800 --> 01:24:06,320
Speaker 1: the template for a genre that spread across North America

1482
01:24:06,360 --> 01:24:09,439
Speaker 1: and Europe, which used the specter of defeat in a

1483
01:24:09,479 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 1: future war to warn the address populace that action in

1484
01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:17,519
Speaker 1: the present is required to avoid national humiliation. Writes Paul

1485
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:21,240
Speaker 1: Williams in Race, Ethnicity and Nuclear War. The story goes

1486
01:24:21,280 --> 01:24:24,360
Speaker 1: like this, Around nineteen twenty, an observer is looking back

1487
01:24:24,400 --> 01:24:28,800
Speaker 1: on events from fifty years earlier. Europe erupts in war.

1488
01:24:29,280 --> 01:24:32,120
Speaker 1: Germany wipes out the Mighty Royal Navy with a top

1489
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:36,560
Speaker 1: secret super weapon. A motley body of citizens turned soldiers

1490
01:24:37,120 --> 01:24:40,679
Speaker 1: hustled to meet the enemy outside a market town named

1491
01:24:40,720 --> 01:24:44,280
Speaker 1: Dorking in the southeast of England, and they are then

1492
01:24:44,600 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 1: decisively beaten there. The English Empire is cut up and

1493
01:24:49,439 --> 01:24:55,320
Speaker 1: sold for parts, basically, and Britain is left in ruined poverty.

1494
01:24:56,000 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 1: Sir George Chesney's story was meant to warn a drought

1495
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:03,200
Speaker 1: in Britain that rougher foreign powers threatened to usurp them

1496
01:25:03,280 --> 01:25:06,640
Speaker 1: if they happened to lose their edge, and it was.

1497
01:25:07,000 --> 01:25:09,320
Speaker 1: It was a hit, selling over one hundred thousand copies,

1498
01:25:09,360 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 1: spawning a series of imitators in Indian A whole genre

1499
01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:15,639
Speaker 1: of invasion fiction, reaching a climax with HG. Wells's War

1500
01:25:15,720 --> 01:25:18,960
Speaker 1: of the Worlds in eighteenth ninety seven that then flipped

1501
01:25:19,000 --> 01:25:22,280
Speaker 1: the genre on its head and made the invaders not

1502
01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:27,360
Speaker 1: foreigners from another nation, but indeed aliens. In late nineteenth

1503
01:25:27,400 --> 01:25:31,879
Speaker 1: century America, invasion fiction reflected, among other themes, the racist

1504
01:25:31,960 --> 01:25:36,760
Speaker 1: fear of Chinese immigrants. Peerton W. Dunier's eighteen seventy nine

1505
01:25:36,840 --> 01:25:40,559
Speaker 1: The Last Days of the Republic imagined America poisoned from

1506
01:25:40,600 --> 01:25:45,080
Speaker 1: within by hordes of Chinese immigrants. Shortly thereafter, Congress passed

1507
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:48,479
Speaker 1: the Chinese Exclusion Act, barring Chinese workers from immigrating to

1508
01:25:48,479 --> 01:25:53,000
Speaker 1: the United States in eighteen eighty two. Though Japan's victory

1509
01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:55,880
Speaker 1: over Russia in the nineteen oh four nineteen oh five

1510
01:25:56,000 --> 01:26:01,440
Speaker 1: Russo Japanese War was mostly celebrated in English language fiction, Russia,

1511
01:26:02,080 --> 01:26:06,320
Speaker 1: then at that time an antagonist of the English speaking world,

1512
01:26:06,920 --> 01:26:10,599
Speaker 1: it threw a shadow over American imaginations. In eighteen fifty three,

1513
01:26:10,880 --> 01:26:15,559
Speaker 1: the United States Admiral Perry's warship Heavy Provocations through Uraga

1514
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:21,960
Speaker 1: Harga revealed the inferiority of Japanese military forces to those

1515
01:26:22,000 --> 01:26:24,479
Speaker 1: of the West, and indeed the Japanese themselves, who were

1516
01:26:24,720 --> 01:26:28,880
Speaker 1: alarmed at their inability to do anything about this fleet

1517
01:26:29,200 --> 01:26:33,360
Speaker 1: invading their waters. Barely fifty years after Perry, a lightning

1518
01:26:33,400 --> 01:26:38,160
Speaker 1: modernization program called the Meiji Restoration lifted Japan from a

1519
01:26:38,200 --> 01:26:41,720
Speaker 1: fractured feudal nation unprepared to defend its own shores to

1520
01:26:41,800 --> 01:26:45,880
Speaker 1: an industrialized power with strong central control capable of beating

1521
01:26:45,920 --> 01:26:50,160
Speaker 1: a great European power. Jack London's nineteen ten story The

1522
01:26:50,280 --> 01:26:54,719
Speaker 1: Unparalleled Invasion wondered what might happen if Japan's reforms spread

1523
01:26:54,720 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 1: to China. The vast and fertile Chinese population in the

1524
01:26:59,000 --> 01:27:03,439
Speaker 1: story was now awakened and spilling over the borders into

1525
01:27:03,520 --> 01:27:08,599
Speaker 1: other countries. Western nations are powerless to constrain Chinese military

1526
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:11,520
Speaker 1: forces either by land or see, and finally, the Americans

1527
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: and other Western powers launch a biological warfare campaign that

1528
01:27:15,479 --> 01:27:20,960
Speaker 1: defeats China in a genocidal fashion that leaves a basically

1529
01:27:21,080 --> 01:27:25,439
Speaker 1: complete destruction. Roy Norton's nineteen oh seventh story The Vanishing

1530
01:27:25,479 --> 01:27:29,000
Speaker 1: Fleets traces a similar arc of paranoia from Japanese modernization

1531
01:27:29,120 --> 01:27:34,559
Speaker 1: to Chinese ascendency. In nineteen fifteen's offers country Japan, using

1532
01:27:34,600 --> 01:27:38,040
Speaker 1: a new aerial warfare techniques, destroys the American military with

1533
01:27:38,080 --> 01:27:41,879
Speaker 1: a sneak attack while it is distracted by conflict in Mexico.

1534
01:27:42,240 --> 01:27:44,880
Speaker 1: Quote very timely in connection with the claims that this

1535
01:27:44,920 --> 01:27:47,320
Speaker 1: country is poorly equipped to withstand and invasion by a

1536
01:27:47,400 --> 01:27:51,760
Speaker 1: foreign foe in the May fifteenth, nineteen fifteen edition of

1537
01:27:51,800 --> 01:27:55,400
Speaker 1: the Boston Globe. The importance of artillery fire was on

1538
01:27:55,520 --> 01:27:58,839
Speaker 1: terrible display during the trench bounce slog of World War One.

1539
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:02,080
Speaker 1: The development of more, more accurate, long range artillery and

1540
01:28:02,120 --> 01:28:06,599
Speaker 1: anti aircraft guns necessitated new techniques for plotting where shots

1541
01:28:07,040 --> 01:28:12,639
Speaker 1: would land that factored in such details as distance, speed

1542
01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:15,639
Speaker 1: of the projectile, speed of the thing you're shooting at,

1543
01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:21,240
Speaker 1: explosive power, and even as these guns increased in their range,

1544
01:28:21,600 --> 01:28:26,160
Speaker 1: the rotation of the Earth, the changing density of the

1545
01:28:26,280 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 1: atmosphere as a projectile moved through it, etc. These calculations

1546
01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:35,920
Speaker 1: were performed by hand in those days, painstakingly by teams

1547
01:28:35,960 --> 01:28:39,200
Speaker 1: of essentially human computers of people that would just fill

1548
01:28:39,200 --> 01:28:42,640
Speaker 1: out these tables to try and figure out, Okay, what

1549
01:28:42,760 --> 01:28:44,240
Speaker 1: is the range of this gun? How do we hit

1550
01:28:44,320 --> 01:28:47,240
Speaker 1: something that we're trying to shoot? At This was slow

1551
01:28:47,720 --> 01:28:52,559
Speaker 1: but workable until the atomic weapons race. The forces unleashed

1552
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 1: by atomic weapons, you know, just think about it. With

1553
01:28:55,880 --> 01:28:58,120
Speaker 1: a regular artillery shell, you can shoot it, you can

1554
01:28:58,160 --> 01:29:01,280
Speaker 1: test it. With atomic weapons, you really can't. The explosive

1555
01:29:01,360 --> 01:29:04,519
Speaker 1: power is so great that it's essentially theoretical, and so

1556
01:29:04,600 --> 01:29:08,160
Speaker 1: you needed a new way to simulate and predict what

1557
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:12,920
Speaker 1: might happen. Mechanized methods of crunching numbers were just going

1558
01:29:13,000 --> 01:29:15,240
Speaker 1: to be needed for this because you would just need

1559
01:29:15,280 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 1: too many human computers and it would take them too

1560
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:22,240
Speaker 1: long to try and simulate what would happen with an

1561
01:29:22,280 --> 01:29:25,519
Speaker 1: atomic explosion. And this led directly to the development of

1562
01:29:25,560 --> 01:29:28,519
Speaker 1: the digital computer. In the summer of nineteen fifty one,

1563
01:29:28,600 --> 01:29:32,000
Speaker 1: with the Cold War taking shape, MANIAC, which stands for

1564
01:29:32,160 --> 01:29:38,599
Speaker 1: Mathematical Analyzer, Numerical Integrator and Automatic Computer Model and early computer,

1565
01:29:38,680 --> 01:29:41,160
Speaker 1: designed under the guidance of the brilliant Jon von Neumann,

1566
01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:45,439
Speaker 1: became operational using vacuum tubes and punch cards for random

1567
01:29:45,439 --> 01:29:49,200
Speaker 1: access memory and program storage, respectively. The machine's first test

1568
01:29:49,360 --> 01:29:54,639
Speaker 1: was to simulate the results of a therminocular detonation. MANIAC

1569
01:29:54,640 --> 01:29:59,240
Speaker 1: crunched the numbers for sixty days straight. The results, writes

1570
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:02,120
Speaker 1: George Dyson and Touring's Cathedral. The origins of the digital

1571
01:30:02,200 --> 01:30:05,559
Speaker 1: universe were confirmed by two huge explosions in the South

1572
01:30:05,600 --> 01:30:08,760
Speaker 1: Pacific ivy Mic yielding the equivalent of ten point four

1573
01:30:08,840 --> 01:30:11,680
Speaker 1: million tons of TNT and November one, nineteen fifty two,

1574
01:30:12,080 --> 01:30:15,960
Speaker 1: and Castle Bravo yielding fifteen megatons on February twenty eighth,

1575
01:30:16,160 --> 01:30:19,519
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty four end quote. At the same time, and

1576
01:30:19,600 --> 01:30:23,719
Speaker 1: of course, the introduction of the computer into our lives

1577
01:30:24,320 --> 01:30:29,880
Speaker 1: has done as much as nearly any piece of human

1578
01:30:30,000 --> 01:30:35,760
Speaker 1: material for generating and inspiring science fiction stories, from the

1579
01:30:35,800 --> 01:30:40,200
Speaker 1: Matrix to Tron to the Foundation series, on and on

1580
01:30:40,200 --> 01:30:43,400
Speaker 1: and on. At the same time, Japan, emerging from the

1581
01:30:43,479 --> 01:30:47,040
Speaker 1: ruination of its participation in World War Two, which ended

1582
01:30:47,080 --> 01:30:50,920
Speaker 1: with the only battlefield use of nuclear weapons detonated over

1583
01:30:51,000 --> 01:30:55,240
Speaker 1: the cities of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, respectively, looked on the

1584
01:30:55,439 --> 01:30:59,160
Speaker 1: post World War two nukes race with a very specific alarm.

1585
01:30:59,600 --> 01:31:02,760
Speaker 1: Japanese fears about nuclear weapons synthesized with an interest in

1586
01:31:02,800 --> 01:31:08,080
Speaker 1: Hollywood monster movies and Bingo bango. Godzilla is Born Gojira,

1587
01:31:08,400 --> 01:31:11,639
Speaker 1: directed by Ishiro Honda and released in July nineteen fifty

1588
01:31:11,680 --> 01:31:15,080
Speaker 1: four told the story of the massive titular sea dwelling

1589
01:31:15,080 --> 01:31:17,800
Speaker 1: dinosaur that spews nuclear fire from its screeching mouth and

1590
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:21,640
Speaker 1: flattens entire cities under its gigantic claw like feet. The

1591
01:31:21,680 --> 01:31:25,120
Speaker 1: film was a success, so much so that, as you

1592
01:31:25,160 --> 01:31:29,320
Speaker 1: probably well know, it launched the kaiju genre meaning strange beast,

1593
01:31:29,640 --> 01:31:33,360
Speaker 1: which remains vibrant to this day in the form of movies,

1594
01:31:33,600 --> 01:31:38,679
Speaker 1: comic books, manga, etc. Star Wars is likely the most

1595
01:31:38,680 --> 01:31:41,559
Speaker 1: successful version of this kind of sci fi war tale,

1596
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:45,759
Speaker 1: and its aesthetic and storytelling choices reverberate with the echoes

1597
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:49,719
Speaker 1: and concerns of conflict. George Lucas, who is a baby boomer,

1598
01:31:49,800 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 1: was steeped in post war pop culture, used World War

1599
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:55,679
Speaker 1: two dog fight footage to create the scenes of swooping

1600
01:31:55,800 --> 01:31:59,160
Speaker 1: X wings and tie fighters as they dog fought across

1601
01:31:59,400 --> 01:32:03,840
Speaker 1: the surface of the Death Star. But more indirectly, but

1602
01:32:04,120 --> 01:32:09,679
Speaker 1: perhaps more essentially, a New Hope pits scrappy rebels, mostly

1603
01:32:09,720 --> 01:32:14,680
Speaker 1: white Eurocentric rebels, fighting a guerrilla war for freedom against

1604
01:32:14,720 --> 01:32:19,360
Speaker 1: a hegemonic empire with weapons of mass destruction. In this way,

1605
01:32:19,680 --> 01:32:23,759
Speaker 1: Lucas's mega hit in the universe it created allowed American

1606
01:32:23,840 --> 01:32:27,799
Speaker 1: audiences to experience through a fictional space war, the moral

1607
01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:31,280
Speaker 1: clarity of the freedom fighter that was a rate against them.

1608
01:32:31,360 --> 01:32:34,680
Speaker 1: During the Vietnam War, A New Hope is basically a

1609
01:32:34,920 --> 01:32:38,600
Speaker 1: Vietnam through a funhouse mirror. Roe One, released in twenty sixteen,

1610
01:32:39,280 --> 01:32:42,680
Speaker 1: is an even more fascinating version of this. Imperial troops

1611
01:32:43,040 --> 01:32:47,799
Speaker 1: occupy a holy city named Jetta. There they extract natural

1612
01:32:47,840 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 1: resources at gunpoint, and they are confronted by defenders of

1613
01:32:52,280 --> 01:32:55,400
Speaker 1: an ancient religion. You don't have to scratch too hard

1614
01:32:55,439 --> 01:32:58,800
Speaker 1: to find the barely hidden layers of meaning there and

1615
01:32:59,280 --> 01:33:03,240
Speaker 1: to see why these kind of stories allow us entree

1616
01:33:03,280 --> 01:33:08,080
Speaker 1: to a different kind of emotional relationship with conflict and war.

1617
01:33:08,479 --> 01:33:21,000
Speaker 1: Up next, The Hive Mine with Pete Holmes, Adam West,

1618
01:33:21,960 --> 01:33:28,840
Speaker 1: Kevin Conroy, Christian Bale, Val Kilmer, George Clooney, Robert Pattinson.

1619
01:33:29,000 --> 01:33:32,519
Speaker 1: But there's someone that we're not mentioning in that group

1620
01:33:32,560 --> 01:33:35,120
Speaker 1: of illustrious actors who have taken on one of the

1621
01:33:35,160 --> 01:33:38,840
Speaker 1: most iconic roles in pop culture, the batman, and that

1622
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:46,160
Speaker 1: is our next guest, the comedian Ben Pete Holmes, No

1623
01:33:47,280 --> 01:33:50,600
Speaker 1: and Bennett Bene Affleck. It's Pete Holmes.

1624
01:33:50,200 --> 01:33:53,240
Speaker 4: And Ben is here and Ben is here. What a disappointment.

1625
01:33:53,560 --> 01:33:56,880
Speaker 4: You noticeably left out, Ben Affleck And then you're like

1626
01:33:56,960 --> 01:34:01,400
Speaker 4: ladies and gentlemen, somewhat famous media and Pete Holmes is here,

1627
01:34:01,400 --> 01:34:04,200
Speaker 4: people just turning it off. Wonderful to be here. I

1628
01:34:04,240 --> 01:34:06,439
Speaker 4: appreciate that. What a great company to be in.

1629
01:34:07,120 --> 01:34:09,400
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when we were putting this together, we

1630
01:34:09,400 --> 01:34:12,400
Speaker 1: were like, who can we talk to about Batman and

1631
01:34:12,439 --> 01:34:15,160
Speaker 1: their love of Batman and how they feel about Batman.

1632
01:34:15,200 --> 01:34:19,439
Speaker 1: And you know, all of us are such huge fans

1633
01:34:19,600 --> 01:34:23,800
Speaker 1: of your Badman sketches, which you can see in a

1634
01:34:23,880 --> 01:34:26,880
Speaker 1: super cut that's like almost an hour long. Now there's

1635
01:34:26,920 --> 01:34:31,800
Speaker 1: some really great laughs in it. And we decided who

1636
01:34:31,840 --> 01:34:36,080
Speaker 1: better than the Batman himself, Pete Holmes. Pete, you have

1637
01:34:36,200 --> 01:34:40,280
Speaker 1: seen Matt Reeves The Batman. Tell us your experiences seeing

1638
01:34:40,280 --> 01:34:41,840
Speaker 1: that movie and what you feel about it.

1639
01:34:41,880 --> 01:34:46,120
Speaker 4: To be fair, I loved the first fifteen minutes of

1640
01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:51,400
Speaker 4: this movie. I was like, so in the first time

1641
01:34:51,439 --> 01:34:53,519
Speaker 4: you see the Riddler in the house, no spoilers, but

1642
01:34:53,760 --> 01:34:57,080
Speaker 4: when he's revealed, people gasped and I was like, Oh,

1643
01:34:57,160 --> 01:35:00,760
Speaker 4: that's so hard to do. And and then when the

1644
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:03,519
Speaker 4: first time you see Batman, I'm going to dork out

1645
01:35:03,560 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 4: right now. I literally was like, this is what when

1646
01:35:06,880 --> 01:35:10,320
Speaker 4: I am falling asleep at night and I'm pretending I'm Batman,

1647
01:35:10,760 --> 01:35:14,800
Speaker 4: it's precisely this, because you know that that cozy you're

1648
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:17,000
Speaker 4: wrapped up in bed and you're like, what would be

1649
01:35:17,080 --> 01:35:20,240
Speaker 4: awesome to dream about? It would be Batman, you know it.

1650
01:35:20,360 --> 01:35:24,640
Speaker 4: Gotham was pitch perfect. The color, the shot, the cinematography

1651
01:35:24,680 --> 01:35:27,519
Speaker 4: of the movie was was one hundred percent perfect. I

1652
01:35:27,560 --> 01:35:30,880
Speaker 4: love the costume. I you know, I think people were like, oh,

1653
01:35:30,960 --> 01:35:33,360
Speaker 4: Robert Pattinson, what do you think? And I was like,

1654
01:35:33,479 --> 01:35:35,280
Speaker 4: I thought he was a great Batman. There's not much

1655
01:35:35,280 --> 01:35:36,880
Speaker 4: Bruce Wayne in it, but I thought he was a

1656
01:35:36,880 --> 01:35:40,000
Speaker 4: great Batman. And when he comes in, but they showed

1657
01:35:40,000 --> 01:35:44,479
Speaker 4: this in the trailer, when he whips Rip's ass into

1658
01:35:44,520 --> 01:35:47,360
Speaker 4: that guy, like really, he like punches him way too

1659
01:35:47,360 --> 01:35:50,839
Speaker 4: many times. That's they we already saw that in the trailer.

1660
01:35:50,880 --> 01:35:52,880
Speaker 4: But I thought I was like, oh, we're going to

1661
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:55,240
Speaker 4: see sort of like an end of his rope. I'm

1662
01:35:55,280 --> 01:35:57,320
Speaker 4: tired of this. I'm getting too old for this shit,

1663
01:35:57,800 --> 01:36:01,240
Speaker 4: so I'm going to break faces. He never does that

1664
01:36:01,320 --> 01:36:04,360
Speaker 4: again in the movie, except on the on the balcony

1665
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:07,800
Speaker 4: at the end. He sort of does it again decidedly,

1666
01:36:07,840 --> 01:36:09,920
Speaker 4: though the goon does not have any blood on him.

1667
01:36:09,920 --> 01:36:12,759
Speaker 4: It's very very tame baby.

1668
01:36:13,040 --> 01:36:15,600
Speaker 1: It felt, it felt very much. It's funny watching that

1669
01:36:15,680 --> 01:36:18,919
Speaker 1: sit whenever I watch a Batman movie now where Batman

1670
01:36:19,360 --> 01:36:24,920
Speaker 1: rips ass on on, thank you. Yes, I can't help,

1671
01:36:24,920 --> 01:36:28,479
Speaker 1: but flash back to the bad Man. The real reason

1672
01:36:28,520 --> 01:36:33,439
Speaker 1: Batman doesn't kill Sketch, which is just scratches at that

1673
01:36:33,640 --> 01:36:38,080
Speaker 1: funny incongruity of Batman doesn't kill but also causes like

1674
01:36:38,720 --> 01:36:42,280
Speaker 1: multiple serious subdural hematomas kill.

1675
01:36:42,400 --> 01:36:44,440
Speaker 2: You know pros drops.

1676
01:36:44,160 --> 01:36:46,960
Speaker 1: Dude on their heads from fifty of the Air. How

1677
01:36:47,040 --> 01:36:51,320
Speaker 1: did how did you develop the idea to do Batman

1678
01:36:51,439 --> 01:36:53,200
Speaker 1: in that way? To tackle Batman?

1679
01:36:53,720 --> 01:36:58,760
Speaker 4: Well, it's because the we love the Nolan movies so much,

1680
01:37:00,000 --> 01:37:02,920
Speaker 4: except for the third one, you can tell. The most

1681
01:37:02,920 --> 01:37:05,479
Speaker 4: popular one we did was is called Batman Can't Stop

1682
01:37:05,520 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 4: Thinking About Sex, And that one was written from because

1683
01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:12,559
Speaker 4: I realized I went and saw it with Oron who

1684
01:37:12,720 --> 01:37:16,000
Speaker 4: directed all of them, Orn Brimmer, and we realized that

1685
01:37:16,080 --> 01:37:18,519
Speaker 4: him and Talia al Ghool had sex like it sort

1686
01:37:18,520 --> 01:37:21,960
Speaker 4: of brushed over, but we were like, but wait, she

1687
01:37:22,120 --> 01:37:24,400
Speaker 4: slept with him like he should be rubbing that in

1688
01:37:24,439 --> 01:37:29,280
Speaker 4: her face because he's an idiot. So that is the

1689
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 4: only one we wrote from a place of like fuck

1690
01:37:32,439 --> 01:37:35,599
Speaker 4: this movie. Like the other All of the other ones

1691
01:37:35,680 --> 01:37:38,080
Speaker 4: were either written from a fictional place like there was

1692
01:37:38,160 --> 01:37:41,880
Speaker 4: no Riddler in the Nolan universe, or were written from

1693
01:37:42,200 --> 01:37:45,639
Speaker 4: a place of like deep love for the movies. So

1694
01:37:45,920 --> 01:37:50,519
Speaker 4: the movies were so serious in tone. The world is

1695
01:37:50,600 --> 01:37:56,760
Speaker 4: so tense and dark, and there's very little humor. In fact,

1696
01:37:56,760 --> 01:37:58,439
Speaker 4: the third one is the only one that has humor

1697
01:37:58,439 --> 01:38:01,880
Speaker 4: in it, and I hated it And he's like, oh,

1698
01:38:02,040 --> 01:38:04,520
Speaker 4: is that what that feels like? Like when someone disappears

1699
01:38:04,560 --> 01:38:06,200
Speaker 4: on him and he goes, is that what that feels like?

1700
01:38:06,240 --> 01:38:10,040
Speaker 4: I'm like, what the fuck is this? Don't well? Also,

1701
01:38:10,120 --> 01:38:12,200
Speaker 4: if you're alone, why are you still doing the voice?

1702
01:38:12,320 --> 01:38:13,760
Speaker 4: That's so like I hate this?

1703
01:38:14,000 --> 01:38:15,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, the big question.

1704
01:38:15,960 --> 01:38:19,760
Speaker 4: The big questions. The first two were so serious that

1705
01:38:19,840 --> 01:38:23,320
Speaker 4: it begged loving parody, and that's where that came from.

1706
01:38:23,400 --> 01:38:27,720
Speaker 4: So we're like, he's so serious about his virtue, you know.

1707
01:38:27,720 --> 01:38:29,080
Speaker 4: In the new one, they don't make as big of

1708
01:38:29,080 --> 01:38:31,320
Speaker 4: a deal out of it that he doesn't kill or that,

1709
01:38:31,560 --> 01:38:33,920
Speaker 4: like there's a couple mentions to like put away your

1710
01:38:33,920 --> 01:38:35,760
Speaker 4: gun or whatever, yeah, but it feels like in the

1711
01:38:35,760 --> 01:38:39,719
Speaker 4: first ones he's much more invested in his family's legacy

1712
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:42,439
Speaker 4: and his values, so it was funnier to make fun

1713
01:38:42,439 --> 01:38:45,000
Speaker 4: of him. I didn't really see anything much to make

1714
01:38:45,040 --> 01:38:46,360
Speaker 4: fun of. Like, if I was going to do a

1715
01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:49,960
Speaker 4: sketch about this movie, the only one I was like,

1716
01:38:50,120 --> 01:38:52,720
Speaker 4: the Riddler asked the barrista to put a question mark

1717
01:38:52,760 --> 01:38:57,599
Speaker 4: in his latte, Like that struck me as as worthy

1718
01:38:57,640 --> 01:39:00,000
Speaker 4: of seeing that in a sketch and being like, no,

1719
01:39:00,640 --> 01:39:05,320
Speaker 4: Like how many times did he have to do it?

1720
01:39:05,320 --> 01:39:05,680
Speaker 4: It's like.

1721
01:39:07,479 --> 01:39:09,760
Speaker 1: It's like the leaf. It's like, imagine you're doing. It's

1722
01:39:09,760 --> 01:39:11,840
Speaker 1: actually simpler than the leaf. If you're going to do

1723
01:39:11,880 --> 01:39:15,360
Speaker 1: the leaf, just do the do a lot. Yeah.

1724
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,519
Speaker 4: But also the fact that he's like, this will be awesome.

1725
01:39:17,520 --> 01:39:20,360
Speaker 4: They're good to arrest me and then they'll find my coffee.

1726
01:39:21,280 --> 01:39:22,599
Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about this because I'm

1727
01:39:22,600 --> 01:39:25,160
Speaker 2: actually hilariously I kind of liked I like the fact

1728
01:39:25,200 --> 01:39:26,880
Speaker 2: that this because it's so early on, this is a

1729
01:39:26,880 --> 01:39:29,320
Speaker 2: batman who isn't the smartest person in the room, because

1730
01:39:29,320 --> 01:39:31,320
Speaker 2: I I kind of he always is, and I think

1731
01:39:31,320 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 2: it's kind of funny and good in this that he isn't.

1732
01:39:34,040 --> 01:39:36,160
Speaker 2: But you mentioned something that I thought was really interesting

1733
01:39:36,240 --> 01:39:39,040
Speaker 2: where you said that, you know, you thought Robert Pattinson

1734
01:39:39,040 --> 01:39:40,880
Speaker 2: made like a great Batman. You know, we don't really

1735
01:39:40,920 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 2: see Bruce, you've played Batman. You know what, what do

1736
01:39:43,960 --> 01:39:46,559
Speaker 2: you think makes a great Batman? Like? What is that

1737
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:49,920
Speaker 2: thing that these characters who we see this as iconic? Like,

1738
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:51,479
Speaker 2: what is it that makes a great Batman?

1739
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:52,360
Speaker 5: Well?

1740
01:39:52,439 --> 01:39:56,000
Speaker 4: I think it's gravitas, you know. And the one thing

1741
01:39:56,040 --> 01:39:58,160
Speaker 4: that I I mean was also sort of funny was

1742
01:39:58,160 --> 01:40:00,320
Speaker 4: that he didn't change his voice. And I think that's

1743
01:40:00,360 --> 01:40:03,720
Speaker 4: because Bail got so much was teased, including by me,

1744
01:40:03,880 --> 01:40:06,720
Speaker 4: for changing his voice, not teased, just we we we

1745
01:40:06,760 --> 01:40:11,920
Speaker 4: took the comment on it. Yeah, we noticed. And then

1746
01:40:11,920 --> 01:40:14,680
Speaker 4: with Affleck they had the voice modified modifier, which I

1747
01:40:14,680 --> 01:40:16,840
Speaker 4: thought was really cool. I was like, that's a great way.

1748
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:20,719
Speaker 4: And then Robert's just talking like Bruce Wayne, the most

1749
01:40:20,720 --> 01:40:24,320
Speaker 4: famous person in Gotham. I thought that's another sketchy area

1750
01:40:24,439 --> 01:40:28,599
Speaker 4: was every time he talks, someone should go Bruce, Like,

1751
01:40:28,680 --> 01:40:32,400
Speaker 4: every every time he talks, someone should go that's that's

1752
01:40:32,400 --> 01:40:35,360
Speaker 4: Bruce Wayne. Hey, Bruce, this does you know?

1753
01:40:35,560 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 2: This is I will say, though, this is very interesting

1754
01:40:38,000 --> 01:40:41,240
Speaker 2: conversation for me because I will say that something that

1755
01:40:41,280 --> 01:40:43,600
Speaker 2: I felt like I saw about this movie that a

1756
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:45,479
Speaker 2: lot of other people had not commented on our fell

1757
01:40:45,880 --> 01:40:48,160
Speaker 2: I feel like this is quite polar opposite to the

1758
01:40:48,200 --> 01:40:50,360
Speaker 2: Nolan movies. So I can understand that if you have

1759
01:40:50,439 --> 01:40:52,360
Speaker 2: a real love of those movies and the version of

1760
01:40:52,360 --> 01:40:54,240
Speaker 2: Batman there, that this doesn't do it for you. So

1761
01:40:54,240 --> 01:40:56,080
Speaker 2: that actually makes a lot of sense. And I'm that's

1762
01:40:56,200 --> 01:40:58,559
Speaker 2: very enlightening to me because I felt like that there

1763
01:40:58,680 --> 01:41:03,439
Speaker 2: was something there that was very different and weird. And

1764
01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:05,560
Speaker 2: it's all subjective, of course, but that makes it that

1765
01:41:05,720 --> 01:41:07,240
Speaker 2: it makes a lot of sense to me because like,

1766
01:41:07,320 --> 01:41:10,000
Speaker 2: those are such formative movies and this is like so

1767
01:41:10,280 --> 01:41:13,080
Speaker 2: weird and long like, and I say that has compliments

1768
01:41:13,080 --> 01:41:14,240
Speaker 2: for me, but like I.

1769
01:41:16,000 --> 01:41:19,479
Speaker 4: Would have forgiven it. I really you're helping me appreciate

1770
01:41:19,520 --> 01:41:22,120
Speaker 4: it more. I really think this is the headline for me.

1771
01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:24,840
Speaker 4: I didn't like it, but I don't think they made

1772
01:41:24,880 --> 01:41:26,840
Speaker 4: it for me, you know what I'm saying. Like it's

1773
01:41:26,840 --> 01:41:30,240
Speaker 4: been what ten years since the last tie those those

1774
01:41:30,240 --> 01:41:32,720
Speaker 4: were they made for me? And I came home and

1775
01:41:32,760 --> 01:41:34,800
Speaker 4: I said to vow my wife, I was just like

1776
01:41:35,640 --> 01:41:39,400
Speaker 4: I just wanted to see light fighting dark.

1777
01:41:39,360 --> 01:41:41,000
Speaker 1: So I get what you're saying. You want to see

1778
01:41:41,000 --> 01:41:43,200
Speaker 1: the light versus dark conflict, which I think is a

1779
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:47,760
Speaker 1: real strength of the Nolan films. That's for me. There's

1780
01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:51,360
Speaker 1: another level to Batman, which is this idea that, like

1781
01:41:51,800 --> 01:41:55,760
Speaker 1: Batman could have ended this all of this shit years ago,

1782
01:41:55,880 --> 01:41:58,439
Speaker 1: if you just like put two in the Joker's head,

1783
01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:00,679
Speaker 1: put two in the Riddler's head, why do you keep

1784
01:42:00,720 --> 01:42:03,160
Speaker 1: capturing these guys, putting them into a system that's not

1785
01:42:03,200 --> 01:42:05,040
Speaker 1: going to lock them away in any kind of way

1786
01:42:05,040 --> 01:42:07,920
Speaker 1: that's going to be permanent and perpetuating this. And I

1787
01:42:07,960 --> 01:42:10,519
Speaker 1: think for me, what I liked about this movie is

1788
01:42:11,040 --> 01:42:15,600
Speaker 1: it explored Batman, Bruce Wayne coming to Grips in a

1789
01:42:15,720 --> 01:42:19,360
Speaker 1: very basic and early way, with the idea that, like,

1790
01:42:20,120 --> 01:42:24,000
Speaker 1: am I causing this in any kind of way? Are

1791
01:42:24,000 --> 01:42:26,280
Speaker 1: the things that I'm doing in any kind of way

1792
01:42:26,400 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 1: perpetuating crime and chaos in Gotham? And that kind of

1793
01:42:32,720 --> 01:42:35,240
Speaker 1: exploration with the weirdness of Bruce Wayne is the thing

1794
01:42:35,280 --> 01:42:37,120
Speaker 1: that I liked about it, because, like Listen, I loved

1795
01:42:37,280 --> 01:42:39,320
Speaker 1: I think that I think The Dark Knight in particular

1796
01:42:39,439 --> 01:42:45,000
Speaker 1: is like an iconic work of incredible almost like genius

1797
01:42:45,080 --> 01:42:48,840
Speaker 1: level pop culture storytelling. That said Christian Bale as Bruce

1798
01:42:48,880 --> 01:42:51,360
Speaker 1: Wayne is a kind of a dork. Not a lot

1799
01:42:51,400 --> 01:42:54,000
Speaker 1: of interiority to that guy. He's just kind of like,

1800
01:42:54,320 --> 01:42:58,719
Speaker 1: my parents were murdered and now I beat up bad people.

1801
01:42:59,040 --> 01:43:01,120
Speaker 1: And that's kind of it, you know, like I don't

1802
01:43:01,120 --> 01:43:04,120
Speaker 1: have a lot of there's there's not like a sense

1803
01:43:04,160 --> 01:43:05,840
Speaker 1: of obsession in what he does.

1804
01:43:06,400 --> 01:43:08,519
Speaker 4: I agree they went back to sort of the keat

1805
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:10,559
Speaker 4: and flavor, which is like, if someone's going to dress

1806
01:43:10,600 --> 01:43:12,559
Speaker 4: up like a bat they should seem unstable. That's what

1807
01:43:12,600 --> 01:43:15,240
Speaker 4: I thought was really great about it, and then you

1808
01:43:15,280 --> 01:43:16,920
Speaker 4: do have what was good about it was also what

1809
01:43:17,000 --> 01:43:19,000
Speaker 4: was bad about it, I think was the walk around Batman.

1810
01:43:19,960 --> 01:43:21,960
Speaker 4: When you have Batman walking around like he does in

1811
01:43:22,000 --> 01:43:24,160
Speaker 4: the video games and the comic books, and you know,

1812
01:43:24,200 --> 01:43:27,280
Speaker 4: walking around a crime scene. You know, I liked it.

1813
01:43:27,560 --> 01:43:29,960
Speaker 4: I liked it, and it just is going to change it.

1814
01:43:30,160 --> 01:43:33,719
Speaker 4: Here's what it's not Batman on a clock tower, swooping

1815
01:43:33,800 --> 01:43:36,360
Speaker 4: down and kicking ass. And I'm a little embarrassed to

1816
01:43:36,400 --> 01:43:37,840
Speaker 4: admit that that's what I really wanted.

1817
01:43:38,000 --> 01:43:40,200
Speaker 2: Pete, you said something that really I think, because I

1818
01:43:40,200 --> 01:43:42,760
Speaker 2: don't think there's anything embarrassing about. I mean, I love

1819
01:43:42,800 --> 01:43:45,120
Speaker 2: Tom mcfarl and Batman, right, I love a cap. I

1820
01:43:45,160 --> 01:43:48,960
Speaker 2: love standing on a you know, Gotham gargoyle with the

1821
01:43:49,080 --> 01:43:51,760
Speaker 2: huge cap wrapped around you. So like, something I think

1822
01:43:51,840 --> 01:43:54,720
Speaker 2: is really cool about Batman in general is like it's

1823
01:43:54,760 --> 01:43:56,439
Speaker 2: kind of like James Bond. We can all have the

1824
01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:59,000
Speaker 2: versions that we like. And I think in that way,

1825
01:44:00,120 --> 01:44:03,360
Speaker 2: your headline is like really legit and kind of very

1826
01:44:03,520 --> 01:44:05,800
Speaker 2: true to the nature of Batman, which is like, there

1827
01:44:05,880 --> 01:44:07,640
Speaker 2: is gonna be versions of it that we like and

1828
01:44:07,680 --> 01:44:09,599
Speaker 2: that really speak to us, and there's gonna be versions

1829
01:44:09,640 --> 01:44:12,360
Speaker 2: of it that are absolutely for other people. And that's

1830
01:44:12,439 --> 01:44:15,120
Speaker 2: kind of the power of a character like this, of

1831
01:44:15,160 --> 01:44:18,120
Speaker 2: an archetypal character. You can have the down and dirty,

1832
01:44:18,680 --> 01:44:22,160
Speaker 2: neo noir, talking slow Batman who doesn't know everything, and

1833
01:44:22,200 --> 01:44:24,760
Speaker 2: you can have the Jim Lee like kicking someone through

1834
01:44:24,800 --> 01:44:28,040
Speaker 2: the air kind of like badass Batman. And you can

1835
01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:32,720
Speaker 2: have the clean, militarized like realistic Nolan. And then you

1836
01:44:32,720 --> 01:44:36,000
Speaker 2: can have like the wild Timber and Batman or even

1837
01:44:36,040 --> 01:44:39,080
Speaker 2: the Schumacher stuff. You know, these all exist alongside each other.

1838
01:44:39,320 --> 01:44:41,479
Speaker 2: And I think something DC is kind of aiming for

1839
01:44:42,080 --> 01:44:45,439
Speaker 2: now and Warner brothers. Is this notion of like, if

1840
01:44:45,439 --> 01:44:48,759
Speaker 2: you didn't like Batman, maybe you're gonna like the flash

1841
01:44:49,120 --> 01:44:51,840
Speaker 2: where we're gonna have a bunch of different Batman's and

1842
01:44:51,880 --> 01:44:53,760
Speaker 2: you're gonna be able to see maybe more of that

1843
01:44:53,840 --> 01:44:56,320
Speaker 2: light versus dark, even if it's in a different esthetic way.

1844
01:44:56,360 --> 01:44:57,839
Speaker 2: So I think that's really interesting.

1845
01:44:57,880 --> 01:44:59,840
Speaker 4: Actually, I thought you were gonna say maybe you're like

1846
01:45:00,120 --> 01:45:02,280
Speaker 4: Batman and that, and that's exactly what I was picking

1847
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:05,040
Speaker 4: up on. I was like, this is a Batman I

1848
01:45:05,040 --> 01:45:07,679
Speaker 4: think for slightly younger than I'm forty two. Like I said,

1849
01:45:07,800 --> 01:45:09,519
Speaker 4: I think this is for younger people. I think it's

1850
01:45:09,560 --> 01:45:14,080
Speaker 4: addressing sort of those conundrums of like we see both sides,

1851
01:45:14,560 --> 01:45:17,000
Speaker 4: like you you're giving, but your virtue signaling or you

1852
01:45:17,040 --> 01:45:19,360
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying, Like nothing is as simple as

1853
01:45:19,400 --> 01:45:22,320
Speaker 4: it seems. But where did we start? Remember I told

1854
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:23,920
Speaker 4: you as I fall asleep at night, I like to

1855
01:45:23,920 --> 01:45:27,160
Speaker 4: pretend I'm Batman like, and a lot of people have

1856
01:45:27,360 --> 01:45:32,439
Speaker 4: that real mythic. It's a it's a symbol like and

1857
01:45:32,479 --> 01:45:35,920
Speaker 4: Carl Jung says symbols transform us way more than people

1858
01:45:36,040 --> 01:45:38,320
Speaker 4: or learning or like symbols. So it's something that I

1859
01:45:38,360 --> 01:45:43,519
Speaker 4: carry in my heart, and I really I keep thinking

1860
01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:46,719
Speaker 4: of Arkham City, where the whole the Gotham is flooded

1861
01:45:46,720 --> 01:45:49,759
Speaker 4: in the fear gas, and and he's and he's losing

1862
01:45:49,800 --> 01:45:52,680
Speaker 4: his mind and he's being tempted by the joker that

1863
01:45:52,760 --> 01:45:55,800
Speaker 4: lives inside of him. I was like, that's my meat

1864
01:45:55,840 --> 01:45:58,759
Speaker 4: and potatoes. Like he's trying to do the right thing,

1865
01:45:59,200 --> 01:46:02,640
Speaker 4: but he's torment did by his own evil and his

1866
01:46:02,640 --> 01:46:06,040
Speaker 4: own participation in it. But they help us swallow that

1867
01:46:06,479 --> 01:46:09,519
Speaker 4: by just having a little bit more of what you

1868
01:46:09,560 --> 01:46:13,200
Speaker 4: had in the first fifteen minutes, which was a perfect Gotham,

1869
01:46:13,640 --> 01:46:18,320
Speaker 4: dark and rainy, beautifully shot. So I don't know, I

1870
01:46:18,360 --> 01:46:20,240
Speaker 4: wish he had kicked the shit out of some more people.

1871
01:46:20,360 --> 01:46:24,560
Speaker 4: That's really that's you couldn't you could have keptain.

1872
01:46:24,320 --> 01:46:26,280
Speaker 2: Broken perfect one line review.

1873
01:46:27,040 --> 01:46:30,400
Speaker 1: So as it's tonight, as you lay down to go

1874
01:46:30,439 --> 01:46:32,920
Speaker 1: to sleep, lay your head on your pillow. It's the

1875
01:46:32,960 --> 01:46:36,759
Speaker 1: temperature is perfect, the sheets feel wonderful on your skin.

1876
01:46:36,840 --> 01:46:39,800
Speaker 1: It's it's a nice high thread count, but nothing too

1877
01:46:39,840 --> 01:46:46,400
Speaker 1: crazy and drifting away. And what tell us about the

1878
01:46:46,479 --> 01:46:50,200
Speaker 1: Batman dream that lulls you off into smaller land?

1879
01:46:50,640 --> 01:46:53,519
Speaker 4: Absolutely, First of all, it's an impossible Gotham. Sometimes they

1880
01:46:53,600 --> 01:46:58,600
Speaker 4: do this in some Gothams where the subway is really high.

1881
01:46:59,000 --> 01:47:01,559
Speaker 4: That is I just find that to be. If there

1882
01:47:01,640 --> 01:47:05,759
Speaker 4: was one thing that makes Gotham City Gotham City is rain, certainly,

1883
01:47:06,400 --> 01:47:11,400
Speaker 4: and also a too high subway an elevated trail. But

1884
01:47:11,479 --> 01:47:15,240
Speaker 4: it's like, why is it so high? That being said

1885
01:47:15,479 --> 01:47:22,280
Speaker 4: too high subway rain, I'm usually you know, my sheets

1886
01:47:22,280 --> 01:47:28,880
Speaker 4: are like the cow because if you think about Batman's life,

1887
01:47:28,920 --> 01:47:32,160
Speaker 4: he's waiting a lot of the time. Like there's that

1888
01:47:32,240 --> 01:47:34,400
Speaker 4: scene where where Gordon comes up in the New One

1889
01:47:34,760 --> 01:47:36,759
Speaker 4: and turns off the bat signal and he just walks

1890
01:47:36,800 --> 01:47:39,720
Speaker 4: out and he's like, what's up, But really he had

1891
01:47:39,720 --> 01:47:42,400
Speaker 4: probably been waiting there two three hours, you know what

1892
01:47:42,439 --> 01:47:45,879
Speaker 4: I mean. So that is the cozy scenario that I imagine.

1893
01:47:45,920 --> 01:47:52,479
Speaker 4: There's no crime happening, but you're elevated, you're armored, and

1894
01:47:52,520 --> 01:47:55,880
Speaker 4: you're capable, so you're deeply safe. It speaks to your

1895
01:47:55,880 --> 01:47:59,960
Speaker 4: mammal brain like I am safe, I am high up.

1896
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:02,240
Speaker 4: No one's going to get me, and even if they did,

1897
01:48:02,280 --> 01:48:04,679
Speaker 4: I could handle it. That is the Batman that helps

1898
01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:09,640
Speaker 4: me fall asleep. This Batman takes the elevator and you

1899
01:48:09,680 --> 01:48:13,559
Speaker 4: know sort of walks down holloways and stuff, which, by

1900
01:48:13,560 --> 01:48:15,880
Speaker 4: the way, that's actually one of the things I thought

1901
01:48:15,960 --> 01:48:16,680
Speaker 4: was cool about it.

1902
01:48:16,800 --> 01:48:19,120
Speaker 1: Pete Holmes, thank you so much for joining us. Do

1903
01:48:19,120 --> 01:48:20,040
Speaker 1: you have anything to plug?

1904
01:48:20,280 --> 01:48:24,040
Speaker 4: Yeah, I do on it's unrelated to Batman. But March

1905
01:48:24,080 --> 01:48:25,960
Speaker 4: thirty first, I have a new show on CBS called

1906
01:48:25,960 --> 01:48:28,559
Speaker 4: How We Roll. Please check it out, premieres on March third.

1907
01:48:28,640 --> 01:48:28,920
Speaker 7: First.

1908
01:48:29,200 --> 01:48:31,040
Speaker 1: Pete Holmes, thanks a lot for joining us.

1909
01:48:31,080 --> 01:48:32,759
Speaker 4: This is really cool, my pleasure.

1910
01:48:33,120 --> 01:48:45,240
Speaker 1: Thanks Pete for joining us. Up next to the Endgame. Okay, Rosie,

1911
01:48:45,439 --> 01:48:48,280
Speaker 1: we're in the end Game now, and today we ponder

1912
01:48:48,400 --> 01:48:52,839
Speaker 1: the question brought to you and me by super producer

1913
01:48:52,960 --> 01:49:01,360
Speaker 1: Saul Rubin. The question is what's the busiest Batman villain

1914
01:49:01,439 --> 01:49:04,559
Speaker 1: you'd want to see in a sequel to Matt Reeves

1915
01:49:04,760 --> 01:49:07,519
Speaker 1: The Batman? Rosie, would you like to go first?

1916
01:49:08,040 --> 01:49:10,640
Speaker 2: I love this so much because, like it's such a

1917
01:49:11,720 --> 01:49:15,240
Speaker 2: grounded world, but I feel like there's still so many funny,

1918
01:49:15,240 --> 01:49:18,760
Speaker 2: fantastical things. Okay, who would I want to see? If

1919
01:49:18,800 --> 01:49:25,160
Speaker 2: I'm thinking, like seriously, I bet I bet that Matt

1920
01:49:25,200 --> 01:49:28,760
Speaker 2: Reeves could do like a terrifying professor pig, you know,

1921
01:49:28,920 --> 01:49:33,560
Speaker 2: continue the like murderish.

1922
01:49:32,280 --> 01:49:36,559
Speaker 1: Shouster Grant Morrison shoutster guy, Like just.

1923
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:42,480
Speaker 2: This kind of terrifying but surreal. You have the aspects

1924
01:49:42,520 --> 01:49:46,200
Speaker 2: of like who is it really, the dueling ideas of

1925
01:49:46,280 --> 01:49:49,160
Speaker 2: like react the real person versus the person that you

1926
01:49:49,200 --> 01:49:51,840
Speaker 2: present to the world, which is very Batman. I think

1927
01:49:51,880 --> 01:49:56,679
Speaker 2: that could be really good and I can legitimately work.

1928
01:49:56,880 --> 01:49:58,640
Speaker 2: But I would also love to see Matt Reeves try

1929
01:49:58,680 --> 01:50:03,280
Speaker 2: and take on something totally ridic like condiment King.

1930
01:50:03,840 --> 01:50:06,880
Speaker 1: We're talking about Condomic Kig. We were talking about Condomic

1931
01:50:06,920 --> 01:50:10,960
Speaker 1: Kig in Free Uh producer Chris apparently as a conomic

1932
01:50:11,040 --> 01:50:15,960
Speaker 1: King action figure. Condiment Please describe for those who are

1933
01:50:15,960 --> 01:50:18,559
Speaker 1: not versed in the world of Batman or the world

1934
01:50:18,600 --> 01:50:21,320
Speaker 1: of comics, who condiment Kig is.

1935
01:50:22,640 --> 01:50:25,960
Speaker 2: Well, well, well, so this is a classic Bruce Tim

1936
01:50:26,040 --> 01:50:29,560
Speaker 2: Paul Deini creation, another brilliant thing that came from the

1937
01:50:29,600 --> 01:50:34,519
Speaker 2: Batman animated series and became canon. Just like Hallaquin, he

1938
01:50:34,720 --> 01:50:39,920
Speaker 2: is like so one of the weirdest condiments. Like I

1939
01:50:39,960 --> 01:50:42,519
Speaker 2: think that's that's really it. Like I think that there's

1940
01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:46,919
Speaker 2: versions where he's like using them in a scary way. Yeah,

1941
01:50:46,960 --> 01:50:50,479
Speaker 2: he's doing other He's like he's like giving people allergic

1942
01:50:50,560 --> 01:50:53,839
Speaker 2: reactions with them or something kind of nefarious. But usually

1943
01:50:54,320 --> 01:50:57,599
Speaker 2: the most classic version you'll see is like one hand

1944
01:50:57,800 --> 01:51:00,760
Speaker 2: is like shooting mustard in one hand is shoing, So

1945
01:51:00,880 --> 01:51:06,439
Speaker 2: like how Matt Reeves would like make that kind of serious. Also,

1946
01:51:06,479 --> 01:51:09,160
Speaker 2: one of the funniest things is like that's a character

1947
01:51:09,200 --> 01:51:12,920
Speaker 2: who's just always getting beaten by anyone that ever, So

1948
01:51:13,040 --> 01:51:14,840
Speaker 2: in that way, it's kind of like, you know, we've

1949
01:51:14,880 --> 01:51:18,559
Speaker 2: seen the Harlequins show bought kite Man, and I mean

1950
01:51:18,560 --> 01:51:20,880
Speaker 2: he's a joke, but he's in it. So like you know,

1951
01:51:20,920 --> 01:51:23,400
Speaker 2: there's this precedent for weird villain condiment.

1952
01:51:23,560 --> 01:51:28,280
Speaker 1: Condiment King uh and kite Man similarly are they are

1953
01:51:28,320 --> 01:51:31,719
Speaker 1: the villains who get beat up in the first three

1954
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:34,439
Speaker 1: pages of a comic book to set up the story.

1955
01:51:34,479 --> 01:51:37,880
Speaker 1: Like when you open up the story, oh, Batman is

1956
01:51:38,040 --> 01:51:41,000
Speaker 1: breaking up a jewel heist, and that will be a

1957
01:51:41,439 --> 01:51:44,320
Speaker 1: condiment King getting his ass kicked by Batman and then

1958
01:51:44,360 --> 01:51:49,760
Speaker 1: taken up like, yeah, that's a great work, condiment King is.

1959
01:51:49,800 --> 01:51:53,599
Speaker 1: So if we ever see King on the screen, even

1960
01:51:53,680 --> 01:51:56,720
Speaker 1: just as an Easter egg character, I will lose it.

1961
01:51:56,840 --> 01:51:58,599
Speaker 2: I feel like if somebody was gonna do that, it's

1962
01:51:58,600 --> 01:52:00,880
Speaker 2: probably like James Gunn. I'm pretty sure he put. I

1963
01:52:00,880 --> 01:52:02,920
Speaker 2: think it was like he had like calendar Man and

1964
01:52:03,000 --> 01:52:06,400
Speaker 2: Collie discuss and all these kind of funny things. Is

1965
01:52:06,439 --> 01:52:07,880
Speaker 2: back Easter eggs, So I believe it.

1966
01:52:07,920 --> 01:52:10,599
Speaker 1: Who would you be, Oh, well, I would be who

1967
01:52:10,680 --> 01:52:12,840
Speaker 1: you just mentioned. I'll bring it back to the og

1968
01:52:13,120 --> 01:52:18,360
Speaker 1: Bill Finger. This is one of the oldest characters in

1969
01:52:18,400 --> 01:52:22,720
Speaker 1: the Batman pantheon. It is calendar Man, you know, one

1970
01:52:22,760 --> 01:52:26,519
Speaker 1: of the best representations of OCD in the comic spere.

1971
01:52:26,520 --> 01:52:31,760
Speaker 1: He just loves dates. He loves knowing about dates. He

1972
01:52:31,800 --> 01:52:35,920
Speaker 1: loves birthdays of famous people, of politicians, and he just

1973
01:52:36,040 --> 01:52:41,280
Speaker 1: loves talking about dates and what they mean. This guy,

1974
01:52:41,640 --> 01:52:44,960
Speaker 1: I mean, just keep him in Arkham without any access

1975
01:52:45,080 --> 01:52:48,320
Speaker 1: to like a pencil to keep track of time and

1976
01:52:48,360 --> 01:52:51,200
Speaker 1: a calendar. And that is how you truly punish the

1977
01:52:51,240 --> 01:52:55,760
Speaker 1: calendar Man, a nefarious villain who just loves being on

1978
01:52:55,840 --> 01:52:58,080
Speaker 1: time and he loves schedules and stuff. I think we

1979
01:52:58,160 --> 01:53:02,599
Speaker 1: actually we could actually see. I think I could see

1980
01:53:02,640 --> 01:53:06,400
Speaker 1: like a tattered up memento esque you know, where he

1981
01:53:06,479 --> 01:53:09,320
Speaker 1: keeps track of everything on his body kind of calendar.

1982
01:53:09,560 --> 01:53:11,320
Speaker 2: I think you could. I think Matt Reeves could actually

1983
01:53:11,360 --> 01:53:13,960
Speaker 2: do a really terrifying calendar Man, because the idea of

1984
01:53:14,000 --> 01:53:17,320
Speaker 2: this Batman is all about obsessions, So obsession with finding

1985
01:53:17,439 --> 01:53:21,000
Speaker 2: justice for her friend, with taking vengeance on Falcony, Batman's

1986
01:53:21,040 --> 01:53:24,200
Speaker 2: obsession with Gotham and his parents. So actually, like the

1987
01:53:24,400 --> 01:53:27,479
Speaker 2: notion of somebody who is obsessed with dates and the

1988
01:53:27,520 --> 01:53:30,080
Speaker 2: relevance of dates, especially in a world of Gotham where

1989
01:53:30,080 --> 01:53:33,400
Speaker 2: there's so many secrets. Could the Riddler has a calendar

1990
01:53:33,439 --> 01:53:37,679
Speaker 2: Man aspect to him anyway, which makes so much sense

1991
01:53:37,760 --> 01:53:40,200
Speaker 2: because of Matt's kind of influences. And you mentioned the

1992
01:53:40,240 --> 01:53:42,200
Speaker 2: Long Halloween a lot. I mean, we all know, like

1993
01:53:43,120 --> 01:53:47,040
Speaker 2: the ending may surprise you, but calendar Man is definitely

1994
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:50,479
Speaker 2: a suspect because of the notion of the date based killings.

1995
01:53:50,800 --> 01:53:53,320
Speaker 2: So I think I think that's like, it could be

1996
01:53:53,360 --> 01:53:55,320
Speaker 2: a really funny one, but I think there's a version

1997
01:53:55,320 --> 01:53:58,440
Speaker 2: where that's actually like really realistic because he doesn't have superpowers.

1998
01:53:58,720 --> 01:54:02,639
Speaker 1: And also I love the idea of a Batman story

1999
01:54:02,720 --> 01:54:06,679
Speaker 1: in a movie that uses calendar Man like is as

2000
01:54:06,720 --> 01:54:09,439
Speaker 1: a secondary villain, but also like as the key to

2001
01:54:09,479 --> 01:54:12,800
Speaker 1: the mystery, as like somebody who the Riddler or the

2002
01:54:12,920 --> 01:54:17,439
Speaker 1: Joker has to keep like hostage because the way his

2003
01:54:17,600 --> 01:54:20,120
Speaker 1: mind works would unlock whatever the mystery is.

2004
01:54:20,280 --> 01:54:22,200
Speaker 2: Right that pilot write that script.

2005
01:54:22,320 --> 01:54:24,080
Speaker 1: I think we have a chance to see calendar Man

2006
01:54:24,479 --> 01:54:26,960
Speaker 1: in a movie and or TV show going forward. Okay,

2007
01:54:27,400 --> 01:54:29,559
Speaker 1: that's it for the endgame. Let us know your thoughts

2008
01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:35,440
Speaker 1: and use hashtag xrvndgame to give us your pick. A

2009
01:54:35,600 --> 01:54:39,200
Speaker 1: big thank you to the great Pete Holmes and of

2010
01:54:39,200 --> 01:54:42,720
Speaker 1: course the even greater Rosie Knight for joining to say

2011
01:54:42,760 --> 01:54:45,800
Speaker 1: on xtra Vision, Rosie, please plug more stuff? Do you

2012
01:54:45,840 --> 01:54:46,880
Speaker 1: have anything else to plug?

2013
01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:48,320
Speaker 2: Just my usual stuff?

2014
01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:48,680
Speaker 1: You know what?

2015
01:54:49,040 --> 01:54:51,960
Speaker 2: On You can find me on Instagram, Rosie Marx, I'm

2016
01:54:52,000 --> 01:54:55,280
Speaker 2: on this podcast, I'm on letterbox. If you want to

2017
01:54:55,320 --> 01:54:56,920
Speaker 2: read some of my comics, I have a bunch of

2018
01:54:56,920 --> 01:54:58,960
Speaker 2: them up for free so you can read all kinds.

2019
01:54:59,000 --> 01:55:02,640
Speaker 2: Actually is a comic I wrote five issues of backups

2020
01:55:02,680 --> 01:55:07,200
Speaker 2: for called Cougaring Coup, which is Batman and Robin parody

2021
01:55:07,440 --> 01:55:11,360
Speaker 2: about the kind of sexual relationship between a super and

2022
01:55:11,400 --> 01:55:15,320
Speaker 2: their sidekick. But my backups were all inspired by different

2023
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:18,840
Speaker 2: comic book eras, so there's everything from the Golden Age

2024
01:55:18,840 --> 01:55:21,880
Speaker 2: all the way to like a kind of Dan Kloud's

2025
01:55:21,920 --> 01:55:25,520
Speaker 2: indie comic style, and my collaborator Daniel Ruder Massa did

2026
01:55:25,520 --> 01:55:27,760
Speaker 2: a brilliant job at bringing those to life. So those

2027
01:55:27,760 --> 01:55:29,320
Speaker 2: are really fun and you can read them for free

2028
01:55:29,880 --> 01:55:34,040
Speaker 2: on my website because I also loved making comics as

2029
01:55:34,040 --> 01:55:36,800
Speaker 2: well as talk me about them well.

2030
01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:40,080
Speaker 1: We are looking forward to an announcement about a comic

2031
01:55:40,120 --> 01:55:49,000
Speaker 1: book primary soon next week. We are doing a cinematic

2032
01:55:49,120 --> 01:55:52,920
Speaker 1: Batman retrospective, a retrospective on the Batman movies with some

2033
01:55:53,000 --> 01:55:57,640
Speaker 1: really really, really cool creator guests. Can't wait to drop

2034
01:55:57,680 --> 01:56:00,000
Speaker 1: that one on you. Don't forget. Send you and your

2035
01:56:00,160 --> 01:56:03,680
Speaker 1: out submissions to x ray at cricket dot com. Instructions

2036
01:56:03,720 --> 01:56:06,440
Speaker 1: are in the show notes and don't forget like a

2037
01:56:06,480 --> 01:56:09,640
Speaker 1: bat signal in the sky telling you if we want

2038
01:56:09,640 --> 01:56:14,400
Speaker 1: those five star ratings, who are we on five star ratings?

2039
01:56:14,520 --> 01:56:17,160
Speaker 1: That's what we want. X ray Vision is a Cricket

2040
01:56:17,160 --> 01:56:19,760
Speaker 1: Media production. The show is produced by Chris Lord at

2041
01:56:19,800 --> 01:56:22,160
Speaker 1: sol Rub. The show is executive produced by myself, Jason

2042
01:56:22,200 --> 01:56:25,840
Speaker 1: Conceptio and Sandy Gerard. Caroline Reston and Carlton Gillespie are

2043
01:56:26,040 --> 01:56:29,160
Speaker 1: consulting producers, and our editing and sound design is by

2044
01:56:29,200 --> 01:56:33,200
Speaker 1: Facilis Phythopolis. Thanks to Brian Vasquez for our theme music.

2045
01:56:33,440 --> 01:56:34,240
Speaker 1: See you next time,