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Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is

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Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or

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Speaker 1: learn this stuff they don't want you to know. A

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Speaker 1: production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is Noel.

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Speaker 3: They call me Ben.

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Speaker 4: We are joined as always with our super producer Andrew

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Speaker 4: Treforce Howard. Most importantly, you are you. You are here.

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Speaker 4: That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Folks,

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Speaker 4: we are at the end of the calendar year of

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty four. A lot of people are dealing with

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Speaker 4: love hard won, love heard lost, and it's often said

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Speaker 4: the course at true love never did run smooth? Make

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Speaker 4: that up?

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Speaker 3: That shakes man.

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Speaker 5: He's no slouch. Sorry, maybe he didn't make it up either.

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Speaker 5: Isn't there a whole thing that maybe he didn't write

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Speaker 5: any of his own stuff.

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Speaker 3: I think that's been pretty well debunked though.

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Speaker 4: Right we have an episode on that as well. But

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Speaker 4: it's something everybody can agree with, Noel. It's one of

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Speaker 4: the few consistent patterns across all of humanity's strange experiment.

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Speaker 4: You know, most of us tuning in tonight have at

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Speaker 4: one point or another sadly encountered heartbreak. And it's it's

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Speaker 4: weird to think about how privileged we are here in

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Speaker 4: the modern age because back in the day, romance, like

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Speaker 4: the person you would spend your life with, it was

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Speaker 4: primarily decided by your physical and socioeconomic proximity.

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Speaker 3: Oh, things have changed.

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Speaker 2: Not not well in your family, right, They just say, wow,

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Speaker 2: that's this other family. It's going to be strategic for us,

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Speaker 2: So you're going to take one for the team.

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Speaker 5: It's interesting though, like you know, in terms of things

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Speaker 5: one might google like how to make a million dollars

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Speaker 5: and how to fall in love or probably on equal

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Speaker 5: footings in terms of things that there is no magic

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Speaker 5: answer for.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And to Matt's earlier point, that was still an

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Speaker 4: improvement based on the previous stuff, which was, Hey, I

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Speaker 4: know this is technically your cousin, and I know there

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Speaker 4: are some recessive traits, but the Habsburg Empire must continue.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and there's some land acquisitions that are tied to

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Speaker 2: the soul nuptial thing.

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Speaker 3: So huge tracks of land, yes, huge tracks of land.

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Speaker 4: That's what I think is amazing about him or her.

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Speaker 4: They're huge tracts of lands. So nowadays across the world.

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Speaker 4: As you know, fellow conspiracy realist, more and more people

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Speaker 4: are turning to technology in the eternal search for affection

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Speaker 4: for love. In a very short span of time, dating

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Speaker 4: apps and services have exploded. Some people hate it, some

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Speaker 4: people love it. Tonight is not about dating advice, but

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Speaker 4: if we could, you guys, in case this ends up

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Speaker 4: being a two parter, could we recommend some dating applications

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Speaker 4: for people well.

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Speaker 3: In terms of hating it or loving it.

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Speaker 5: It really just has kind of become an inevitable reality.

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Speaker 5: It's kind of the way a lot of people, mean,

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Speaker 5: young people coming up. It just seems like this is

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Speaker 5: just how it's done. I met some people in the

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Speaker 5: past through Bumble. In the early days, I used Tender,

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Speaker 5: but then, like you know, different apps start to get

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Speaker 5: different reputations. Tenders become like something more of like a

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Speaker 5: hookup kind of market show, and Bumble is maybe more

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Speaker 5: for like older folks or middle aged folks.

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Speaker 3: And I think the big one is Hinge these days.

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Speaker 2: I've heard tell of Hinge. I've seen that's the only

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Speaker 2: one I've seen actually looked at. I've never seen anybody

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Speaker 2: open Tinder on their phone and like look through it.

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Speaker 2: Or have downloaded it or any of those. It's weird.

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Speaker 2: I need to need to get on that. The only

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Speaker 2: one I know of is Lumberjack Dating dot Com, which

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Speaker 2: uh sure, I haven't actually used it. I just went

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Speaker 2: to their website and it says ready to meet a

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Speaker 2: genuine lumberjack who knows how to treat a woman.

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Speaker 4: Hey this baby or year, Matt.

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Speaker 5: I mean you got to have a certain circumference of

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Speaker 5: bicap to even qualify though.

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Speaker 4: If I'm not, that's the right shout out to Paul

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Speaker 4: Bunyan xx six x X. Also, I'd like to highly

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Speaker 4: recommend Night Walk. It does not have any of the vowels.

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Speaker 4: You'll find it if you need it.

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Speaker 3: Is that your your app Ben, that your that you've piloted.

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Speaker 4: No comments.

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Speaker 5: That sounds so safe, guys. Can I just say though,

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Speaker 5: that Paul Bunyan bit of a babe.

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Speaker 4: You're thinking a bit of Babe the Blue walks.

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Speaker 3: That's right, That's right. It was. It's an online dating joke.

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Speaker 4: So do check out Babe the Blue Ox available now

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Speaker 4: wherever you find your favorite applications. Listen, what we're telling

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Speaker 4: you is there is a conspiracy afoot with all this

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Speaker 4: dating Shenanigan, Rea online.

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Speaker 2: And we're going to tell you all about it after

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Speaker 2: a word from our sponsors.

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Speaker 4: Here are the facts. First, let's define online dating. It's

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Speaker 4: an umbrella term for, as you can tell, folks a

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Speaker 4: wide range of services. They specialize in any number of preferences, demographics, ages, incomes,

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Speaker 4: personal situations, occupations. One thing that's interesting I would say

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Speaker 4: about dating apps in the modern era is that it

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Speaker 4: is can completely okay on a dating app to say

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Speaker 4: I only prefer a certain demographic of people.

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Speaker 5: Sort of the whole point, right, It's like a feature,

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Speaker 5: not a bug. It's kind of the thing that differentiates

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Speaker 5: some of the apps from one another.

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Speaker 4: You're not a lumberjack GTFO. Oh you're not a farmer.

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Speaker 4: This is farmer's only.

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Speaker 3: Well, yeah, it is weird too, pulling up the rude

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Speaker 3: begas get out of town.

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Speaker 2: And as we're going to discuss in the episode, that

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Speaker 2: kind of set of circumstances, using an algorithm to match

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Speaker 2: the user with their preferences ends up getting spun and

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Speaker 2: turned around and flipped. So now it's just who are you?

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Speaker 2: Who are you? And what will people like about you?

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Speaker 2: And then it just it gets tangled up in itself

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Speaker 2: really quickly.

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Speaker 4: Guys, it's everything you hate about dating in real life

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Speaker 4: and everything you hate about auditioning in real life, and

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Speaker 4: so now you can have them together, and it's everything

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Speaker 4: you hate about social media. Whatever specializations these services may

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Speaker 4: focus on, they have one thing in common. They require

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Speaker 4: the Internet to function. Fifty years ago, this sounded bonkers, right,

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Speaker 4: this sounded absolutely nuts. Can you imagine you, guys have ancestors.

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Speaker 4: Can you imagine going back in time to your ancestors

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Speaker 4: and attempting to explain tender what would you say?

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Speaker 5: They'd probably kill you, kill me dead on site, at least,

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Speaker 5: you know, once I, once I started speaking, I think

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Speaker 5: it was witchcraft.

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Speaker 2: You'd have to start by explaining, like what a classified

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Speaker 2: ad is, because they might understand a newspaper or you know,

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Speaker 2: something like that. Maybe not, maybe you'd have to explain

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Speaker 2: the newspaper then classified ad. Then Now imagine if you

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Speaker 2: did this on.

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Speaker 5: Mass how far back I guess I'm picturing I guess

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Speaker 5: so I'm saying, I guess I'm picturing ancients. Very difficult conversation,

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Speaker 5: but you know your results may vary depending on how

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Speaker 5: far back you go.

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Speaker 4: To Ben's point, well, like how far back do you go?

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Speaker 4: You know, you go far enough back, and you're saying, hey,

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Speaker 4: did you ever wonder if those Neanderthals over in the

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Speaker 4: next horizon are cool? Did you ever think about, you know,

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Speaker 4: cuddling up. We're gonna leave that there.

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Speaker 5: But also, I mean the question also then kind of

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Speaker 5: begins to surround the nature of partnership and the nature

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Speaker 5: of like what is someone looking for? In the olden days,

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Speaker 5: it would have been, to your earlier points that both

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Speaker 5: of you fellas much more about acquisition, about land, about family,

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Speaker 5: about tying into a dynasty your wife and child, oh well,

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Speaker 5: of course. And then further back than that it would

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Speaker 5: have been more about protection, you know, and about this

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Speaker 5: kind of almost tribalism as opposed to you know, who

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Speaker 5: was going to be the big spoon?

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Speaker 4: Mm hmm, yeah. Yeah. As we said in previous evenings,

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Speaker 4: the escalation of human society is best portrayed as this.

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Speaker 4: One you have the family, right, everybody's related. Two you

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Speaker 4: have the tribe, everybody has this common interest. Three you

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Speaker 4: have the religion. Four you have the state, Five you

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Speaker 4: have the company right, and maybe six you have the

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Speaker 4: galaxy or the solar system dream galaxy brand yeah, so

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Speaker 4: you're absolutely right. No, in terms of the modern day,

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Speaker 4: right now, people seem to be in the West, I

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Speaker 4: wouldn't say rejecting, but perhaps interrogating traditional social norms, romantic norms.

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Speaker 4: The US Census Bureau found in twenty twenty three that

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Speaker 4: in their estimation, nearly fifty percent of the US population

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Speaker 4: forty seven percent, they said, considers itself single. The data

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Speaker 4: doesn't always agree. It makes me think there were a

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Speaker 4: couple folks maybe putting themselves as single with someone at

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Speaker 4: home who would have a problem with that. It's complicated, Yeah,

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Speaker 4: shout out Facebook.

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Speaker 3: Oh gosh, must we The.

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Speaker 4: Few research centers says that three and ten Americans are

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Speaker 4: single either way you slice it historically, that's a lot

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Speaker 4: of people, right.

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Speaker 3: Right, Well, I believe that forty seven percent consists of

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Speaker 3: just over one hundred and seventeen million people in the

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Speaker 3: United States that consider themselves single. Slash.

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Speaker 4: It's complicated, Yeah, single slash. It's complicated. Working it out.

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Speaker 4: Here's the sad truth that we have to admit a

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Speaker 4: lot of folks right now who are listening this evening

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Speaker 4: are single and perhaps maybe not happy with that.

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Speaker 3: They may want to.

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Speaker 4: Be booed up or cuffed. As hip Hop says. This

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Speaker 4: is where the statistics show us the popularity of dating apps.

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Speaker 4: In the United States alone, nearly again three and ten

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Speaker 4: US adults used a dating site or app, and more

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Speaker 4: than forty percent of people interviewed. They state that online

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Speaker 4: dating has made dating easier. Now you don't just have

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Speaker 4: to rock up at an art show, you know what

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Speaker 4: I mean. Now you don't just have to pretend that

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Speaker 4: you're at that tree planting or soup kitchen or museum

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Speaker 4: every day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you just say, hey, you're cool, we matched be

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Speaker 2: at my house at ten.

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Speaker 4: Flighte whoa super.

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Speaker 2: Lightt mess I get. Look this, I have no experience

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Speaker 2: with it. That's what I've been hearing through several of

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Speaker 2: the sources we were looking at today that it just

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Speaker 2: becomes at times because there are so many human beings

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Speaker 2: out there, it's like you gotta just meet who you

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Speaker 2: can and see if.

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Speaker 3: And you know, being a dude as well.

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Speaker 5: Like I've navigated through multiple of these and I've met

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Speaker 5: some people that were great and some people that were awful.

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Speaker 5: But there is some comfort in knowing that if you're

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Speaker 5: there for the same reason, you're not gonna accidentally put

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Speaker 5: your foot in your mouth, or you know, even worse,

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Speaker 5: get the wrong idea and have someone think you're being

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Speaker 5: a creep because you know what the stakes are, you

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Speaker 5: know what the score is.

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Speaker 3: You're both there for the same reason.

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Speaker 5: Not to say that there aren't tons of creeps on

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Speaker 5: these online dating sites, but that was sort of a

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Speaker 5: selling point for me, was that it took some of

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Speaker 5: that that's unknown out of the equation because I am just,

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Speaker 5: you know, extra concerned about anyone thinking that I have

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Speaker 5: any intention other than you.

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Speaker 2: Know, normal wace is that the I guess it. We'll

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Speaker 2: talk about it varies by the app, like what the

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Speaker 2: app sells itself as what you will be selling yourself

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Speaker 2: as when you use the app, right, but I guess

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Speaker 2: yeah there, and they call those the hookup apps versus

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Speaker 2: some of the other ones that we'll get into.

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Speaker 5: Well, I just mean like, if you're matching with somebody,

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Speaker 5: you know that you're in an early kind of getting

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Speaker 5: to know you phase, as opposed to having to rock

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Speaker 5: up to Ben's point, to somebody at an art show

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Speaker 5: or a bar and feel like you're, you know, peeing

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Speaker 5: in the wind for lack of a better term.

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Speaker 4: Well, what we're really talking about there, gentlemen, is the

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Speaker 4: concept of information asymmetry. To your point, Noel, knowing what

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Speaker 4: is expected by both parties, what is informed consent? Yes,

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Speaker 4: that can be a huge win, and there are quite

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Speaker 4: a few deep economic structures at play. We do know

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Speaker 4: that it appears the Western world for a while for

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Speaker 4: super dug they superl liked dating apps. They swiped right

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Speaker 4: on that stuff because in twenty twenty three in the

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Speaker 4: United States alone, for people in the dating market in

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Speaker 4: twenty twenty three in the United States, when asked their

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Speaker 4: preferential milieu or medium for meeting a partner, thirty two

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Speaker 4: percent said I'm going to meet them at a concert

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Speaker 4: or a festival, which I take to mean some sort

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Speaker 4: of social event. Thirty three percent said I want to

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Speaker 4: be connected via a friend, a known trusted entity. To

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Speaker 4: your earlier point, let's grade down on that information asymmetry

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Speaker 4: if we can. Here's number one with a bullet. Forty

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Speaker 4: two percent said online dating apps. That's where I get

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Speaker 4: my kicks.

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Speaker 2: Oh boy, And with that, we're going to take a

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Speaker 2: quick break. Hear a word from our sponsors and we'll

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Speaker 2: be right back with more. And we've returned.

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Speaker 3: So where did this all begin.

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Speaker 5: I mean, we certainly know, you know, things like the

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Speaker 5: personals ads and sort of more historical predecessors to online dating. Right,

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Speaker 5: these actually date pretty far back, but not maybe as

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Speaker 5: far back as I might have thought. To the late

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Speaker 5: fifties and early sixties. Stanford students Jim Harvey and Phil

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Speaker 5: Filer used a questionnaire and an very whole school probably

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Speaker 5: incredibly large IBM six fifty computer to match up forty

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Speaker 5: nine men and forty nine women.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, picture the transistors, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 4: And they they hit a good Vin diagram on forty

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Speaker 4: nine C and forty nine B or whatever, and then

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Speaker 4: all of a sudden, the transistors burst like like you're

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Speaker 4: creating Frankens. We've gone to match.

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Speaker 3: It's a love I can never forget guys.

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Speaker 5: When we all went to Vegas together and we were

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Speaker 5: just obsessed with that Frankenstein slot machine.

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Speaker 3: That that voice rings in my head constantly. It's alive,

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Speaker 3: It's alive. Sorry, unrelated, but you triggered me there.

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Speaker 2: Ben lost a lot of money on that thing, do

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Speaker 2: you guys remember? Greater great expectations or greater expectations is

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Speaker 2: the VHS dating SNL spoof? Right, Lle was that Chappelle.

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Speaker 5: I don't know exactly where it came from, but I

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Speaker 5: definitely remember the little theme tune for sure.

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Speaker 2: The real thing was called Great Expectations, and it was

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Speaker 2: like VHS dating very eighties sign up. But because like

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Speaker 2: how I kept trying to imagine, like how the heck

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Speaker 2: would you actually get a hold of the VHS tapes

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Speaker 2: of all the people that are going on aagistics.

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Speaker 4: Also, it's self selecting at that point for people with

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Speaker 4: access to certain kinds of technology, which we'll see as

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Speaker 4: even crooked, which is a word I made up. It's

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Speaker 4: American emlash. I'm still learning it.

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Speaker 5: Tuned into an upcoming episode of Ridiculous History to find

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Speaker 5: out more on the history of.

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Speaker 4: American My gosh, who buddy, So, I would say, our

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Speaker 4: collective favorite example of early technology or you know, computer

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Speaker 4: technology beating the Long Road to love is a guy

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Speaker 4: named Ed Lewis back in nineteen sixty three. This guy

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Speaker 4: also got a pretty old IBM computer. It was new

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Speaker 4: at his time, and he made a questionnaire and it

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Speaker 4: was entirely so that he could quote optimize the meeting

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Speaker 4: potential at dances for himself.

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Speaker 5: That's fun, nothing weird, you know, what's funny about that,

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Speaker 5: Ben is I was just recently thinking about the old

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Speaker 5: expression I don't have room on my dance card, to

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Speaker 5: which I kind of looked that up, and that was

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Speaker 5: a thing man there was like, you know, women dances,

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Speaker 5: social gatherings or whatever, would have this thing that has

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Speaker 5: resembled like the little ticket you'd find at the inside

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Speaker 5: of a library book, and you would kind of schedule

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Speaker 5: the boys that you were gonna cut a rug with,

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Speaker 5: and that you could say if you didn't want to

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Speaker 5: do something or didn't want to dance, you say, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 5: I don't have room on my dance card, which is

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Speaker 5: where that expression comes from, for like not having time

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Speaker 5: to do something with somebody.

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Speaker 4: Wow, amazing, And it's weird because we don't have dance cards.

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Speaker 4: Now we should get them.

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Speaker 5: We don't have dances, we should dance, so we should

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Speaker 5: we should take take Maud's advice.

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Speaker 2: From Harold and Maud, it's a really interesting point. I

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Speaker 2: don't want to jump ahead with it, but it reminds

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Speaker 2: me of the Atlantic article that I think we all

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Speaker 2: read for this that was talking about the difficulty of

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Speaker 2: getting women to use these apps. Again, we're gonna have

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Speaker 2: to talk about it in a moment, but thinking about

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Speaker 2: the dance card as a thing where and maybe I'm

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Speaker 2: wrong here, correct me, guys, But in my mind, the

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Speaker 2: historically it's often been, often not always been males chasing

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Speaker 2: after a female is in like, I'm going to pursue

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Speaker 2: that pretty lady and I will attempt to date.

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Speaker 3: That she will be mine, oh yes, or it will

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Speaker 3: be mine.

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Speaker 2: Or in this case, I will dance with her. I

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Speaker 2: want to dance with her. But oh, and then it

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Speaker 2: is in the woman's position to say no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: But also the stakes were so much higher back then.

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Speaker 5: If you got on that dance card, you might have

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Speaker 5: a one out of ten shot of marrying that gal.

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Speaker 3: You know what I mean?

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Speaker 4: I mean, well, sure courtship. What we used to say

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Speaker 4: back in I guess we call it the eighteen hundreds

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Speaker 4: is a man pursues a woman until she catches him

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Speaker 4: fair enough. This is obviously not a thing that has

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Speaker 4: aged well. But I think what you're proposing here, Matt,

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Speaker 4: is a sort of Newtonian association right of chaser and chase. Right,

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Speaker 4: one must be one or the other. And we see

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Speaker 4: that this is to your point, Noll a function of

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Speaker 4: the economic and survival realities, the situation, the environment at

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Speaker 4: the time. Over, if we go back to ED in

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Speaker 4: nineteen sixty three, spoiler worked out, but not the way

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Speaker 4: he wanted. Over the next few decades, we see this

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Speaker 4: continuing trend of computer assisted questionnaires. Now you don't have

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Speaker 4: to just publish a classified advertisement. Now you don't have

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Speaker 4: to just say, you know, mail eight hundred and seventy

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Speaker 4: three years old in tonight walks looking for interesting company.

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Speaker 4: Now you can just say you tell me, you can

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Speaker 4: put the onus on the person that you want to meet.

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Speaker 4: You can say, give give me your answers for this

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Speaker 4: sort of stuff. And at the same time we see

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Speaker 4: the rise of things like mail order brides to your

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Speaker 4: earlier point, we see video dating services. In the nineteen eighties,

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Speaker 4: we see the rise of dating what are they called BBS's.

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Speaker 5: Well message boards right or well yeah, but like physical right,

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Speaker 5: they would have been actual.

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Speaker 3: There was no Internet yet, right, this is not online.

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Speaker 4: No, they got out there. There were early.

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Speaker 5: Early versions of subscription based kind of almost like newsgroup

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Speaker 5: kind of situations, very early Internet, that makes sense.

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Speaker 4: And then you get the first modern dating site, by

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Speaker 4: which we mean a website built entirely to get people together.

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Speaker 4: It's called kiss dot com. In a burst of creativity,

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Speaker 4: it hits the net in nineteen ninety four.

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Speaker 3: Surprised Kiss the Band didn't have that lockdown already.

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Speaker 4: Where were you.

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Speaker 5: G he's a vase, very litigious too. I don't know

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Speaker 5: if you he's usually on the top of that I

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Speaker 5: would have thought. I mean, I'm surprised we haven't read

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Speaker 5: some sort of lawsuit kerfuffle with kiss dot com against

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Speaker 5: the Kiss or the Kiss organization.

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Speaker 4: You guys, let's check it out right now. Kiss dot

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Speaker 4: com just says kiss dot com see photos of singles

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Speaker 4: near you. Oh, and there's a button that says match and.

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Speaker 3: Then it takes you to match.

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Speaker 5: Maybe you got the vintage landing page with nothing on

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Speaker 5: it other than a link out to the modern version.

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Speaker 4: So fast forward a little bit.

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Speaker 2: Uh.

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Speaker 4: We know that yid y id dot com launched in

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Speaker 4: South Africa just shortly after Kiss dot com, and yid

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Speaker 4: dot com was a specifically Jewish dating site. Other countries,

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Speaker 4: other demographics followed.

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Speaker 3: Suit.

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Speaker 4: The world knew there was this crazy horizon ahead. Investors

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Speaker 4: knew there was a crazy horizon ahead, and dating platforms

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Speaker 4: only grew more and more and more popular. The real

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Speaker 4: thing that changed the game.

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Speaker 2: Aim was a message sorry sorry. That's what changed the

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Speaker 2: game for me. That's how I've ended up meeting a

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Speaker 2: bunch of people.

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Speaker 5: Online in flirtation machine and random chat rooms.

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Speaker 4: What's your asl bro?

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Speaker 2: Uh oh that People ask me that all the time,

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Speaker 2: and I pretend like I was a twenty year old.

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Speaker 2: And then I remember just being like feeling, I like,

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Speaker 2: I was so cool because I could talk to people.

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Speaker 5: So you were like in your teens, but you were pretending, liked,

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Speaker 5: pretend to be older.

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Speaker 2: Everybody my age, our age, was in middle school just

401
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Speaker 2: acting on the internet like they're everybody and anybody, just

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Speaker 2: to be weird with it, I think, and we were

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out stuff.

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Speaker 3: It was full school.

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Speaker 4: It was so much fun and weird, the humans gregarious.

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Speaker 4: It's neat to talk to strangers.

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Speaker 2: It didn't feel scary at all until we realized it

408
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Speaker 2: was terrifying.

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Speaker 5: What you're describing is pretty, you know, charming and naive

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Speaker 5: pretend to being at middle school.

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Speaker 3: I pretending to be older.

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Speaker 5: But what of course ended up happening was old people

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Speaker 5: pretending to be middle schoolers.

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Speaker 3: And that's where it kids gross exact.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and that continues today. So the seeds of the

416
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:09,800
Speaker 4: evil trees were planted long ago. If we go past

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Speaker 4: aim Messenger to the early two thousand's twenty ten's, the

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Speaker 4: revolution is the smartphone. We have a thing called Grinder,

419
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:25,359
Speaker 4: which was very forward facing for its time, not just

420
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Speaker 4: because it was designed for the LGBTQ plus community, but

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Speaker 4: also because they took the E out of the word

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Speaker 4: you know, So now it's they kind of set the

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Speaker 4: tread on that one.

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Speaker 5: One hundred percent, I mean, and again, like you know,

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Speaker 5: it's not something that I've experienced directly, but that's another

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Speaker 5: app that part of its selling point is almost like

427
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Speaker 5: very quick geolocation of people who just want to hook up.

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Speaker 5: It is largely looked at, by my understanding, to be

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Speaker 5: less of a long term meeting my soulmate kind of

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Speaker 5: app and more of like a casual kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. And one of the major I would say revolutions

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Speaker 2: moving away from a laptop or desktop back in the

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Speaker 2: day largely to the phone, like that is that you're

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Speaker 2: mobile using this thing, so you're not at home talking

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00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 2: to somebody. You're now at the club or you are

436
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,480
Speaker 2: you know, at a restaurant and you can open your

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Speaker 2: app and see who's nearness.

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Speaker 4: Yeah to the earlier statement there, you know, dating pre

439
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:45,040
Speaker 4: technology or technological innovation was requisite on socioeconomic or physical proximity.

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Speaker 4: And to your point, Matt, now with your proximity visible

441
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,680
Speaker 4: and approachable, now you can see whomever is near you

442
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:56,159
Speaker 4: wherever you may go.

443
00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:58,320
Speaker 5: And to me, that, to my understanding, that is a

444
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 5: pretty I'm sure there are others you know that have

445
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 5: this feature, but that's a pretty Grinder specific kind of thing.

446
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 5: Whereas you know, if you have an app like Tender

447
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,600
Speaker 5: or Bumble or Hinge or whatever you might put in,

448
00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:10,840
Speaker 5: I only want matches with people that live within thirty

449
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:12,959
Speaker 5: miles of me, you know, but you're not going to

450
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 5: see them as a blip on a map where you

451
00:27:15,160 --> 00:27:16,040
Speaker 5: can walk right.

452
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:16,360
Speaker 3: Up to them.

453
00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,280
Speaker 5: That would be considered privileged information and you do not

454
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 5: want to give that kind of information out unless you

455
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 5: are ready to meet somebody in person, and usually then

456
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,399
Speaker 5: you meet it like I mutually agreed upon kind of

457
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 5: public place. But Grinder is very specifically I think geo centric.

458
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:34,040
Speaker 5: That's very real time data driven.

459
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 4: Which requires yeah, as you said, Noll, the data and

460
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:41,280
Speaker 4: you know folks, it may be a bummer to say

461
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,719
Speaker 4: the love of my life is in me and mar

462
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 4: I will never meet them because I don't have my

463
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:53,119
Speaker 4: settings correct. We have to understand that the appearance of

464
00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:59,080
Speaker 4: Tender in twenty twelve reshape the landscape because a gamified

465
00:27:59,280 --> 00:28:04,120
Speaker 4: sex and love you swipe right to like you, swipe

466
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 4: left to pass. For a while, this was a free action.

467
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 4: I'm sure it continues now. I have never dated online.

468
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 4: I meet you know, I mean, my lover's the old

469
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 4: school way getting deported suddenly finding finding finding a date

470
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:28,400
Speaker 4: becomes more like playing a game or taking a survey.

471
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 4: Then it becomes like meeting someone and knowing them. It's

472
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 4: a weird, weird audition process to put.

473
00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 5: People in and it really does kind of in many ways,

474
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 5: cheapen the experience. You know, it can sort of like

475
00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 5: make you a little bit jaded when everything is just

476
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,200
Speaker 5: a picture that you are swiping. It is a pretty

477
00:28:47,320 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 5: surface level kind of exercise, you know, for the most part.

478
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: And with the advent of Tinder, what you also begin

479
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: to see. And again only with hindsight do we realize this,

480
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 2: but we all anyone who is using Tender, who began

481
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 2: that process started to see that there is an endless

482
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 2: stream of individuals out there. So you now get you

483
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,240
Speaker 2: start to get into the problem of well, if I

484
00:29:16,400 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 2: swipe right on that person, I might be missing the next,

485
00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: you know, person that I really want to date, or

486
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 2: I really would match with her I think would be

487
00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 2: super sexy. Yeah, if I'd swipe right on that, maybe

488
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,360
Speaker 2: I'm I'm screwing up. I should just swipe left until

489
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: I find the perfect one.

490
00:29:34,760 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 4: I only got so many swipes. What am I gonna do?

491
00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 4: Pay this app?

492
00:29:39,080 --> 00:29:42,720
Speaker 5: The app says, Yeah, that's gamified as well, because like

493
00:29:42,760 --> 00:29:45,800
Speaker 5: a lot of like quote unquote free games, you know,

494
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,760
Speaker 5: phone apps, there are in app purchases you can you

495
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 5: gotta buy more hearts or in game currency or whatever,

496
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 5: and like in tender, you can get buy the super

497
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:58,920
Speaker 5: swipe again the things that things that obviously changed. I'm

498
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 5: sure I have since I'm that's with it. But all

499
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 5: you do run up against you know, you've run out

500
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 5: of swipes and you have to wait, or you could

501
00:30:06,040 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 5: pay X number of dollars an upgrade to the premium version.

502
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,920
Speaker 4: The freemium model, yes, which we'll get to. The thing

503
00:30:13,080 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 4: is there is little to no stigma attached to online

504
00:30:17,080 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 4: dating today. You know, not too long ago it was

505
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 4: considered somehow inappropriate to meet someone through a classified advertisement

506
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,880
Speaker 4: in print, and some of us in the audience tonight

507
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:39,240
Speaker 4: realize how recent that was. Dating online is a normalized

508
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 4: tool nowadays a lot of people have met for casual

509
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:48,720
Speaker 4: flings or they've found themselves in lifelong, committed, happy relationships

510
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 4: having issue I mean by which I mean creating children.

511
00:30:53,520 --> 00:30:57,360
Speaker 4: Last year, the boffins at Pew Research found get this,

512
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 4: I think this is an amazing statistic. One inten partnered

513
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,800
Speaker 4: adults people are married, living with a partner, or in

514
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 4: a committed romantic relationship. One in ten of those folks

515
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,880
Speaker 4: met their current partner through a dating site or through

516
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:21,040
Speaker 4: an app. So those are good results.

517
00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:23,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean I met my current partner through a

518
00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 5: dating app, no question about it. And the previous couple

519
00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:29,560
Speaker 5: that I've had before that again varying degrees of success.

520
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:31,719
Speaker 5: Obviously I'm not with them anymore, but some of them

521
00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:34,600
Speaker 5: were fine relationships I met through those apps as well,

522
00:31:34,680 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 5: So I'm very much part of that demographic.

523
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 4: And obviously, folks, when we are saying something is normalized,

524
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:49,400
Speaker 4: we do not mean it is above criticism. This new

525
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 4: genre of romance has garnered tons of controversy, plenty of complaints,

526
00:31:56,280 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 4: a couple of heinous crimes, and countless broken hearts along

527
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,160
Speaker 4: the way. But the deal is, the need is too great.

528
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,240
Speaker 4: Some people would pay anything for the promise of true

529
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 4: love and the money, oh, the money, you guys. The

530
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:17,280
Speaker 4: profit potential that is likewise too great for the companies

531
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:23,560
Speaker 4: to ignore. Every dating app is swiping right on profit potential.

532
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:28,959
Speaker 4: Morgan Stanley found dating app users who go to what

533
00:32:29,000 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 4: you're saying, no, they cross the rubicon of freemium to pay.

534
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:38,880
Speaker 4: They end up spending between eighteen and nineteen US dollars

535
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 4: per month on subscriptions or one off purchases.

536
00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is very odd to imagine that every one

537
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: of these dating sites, dating apps, whatever they are, start

538
00:32:51,960 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 2: as free, and especially Tinder if you think about its origins,

539
00:32:56,080 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 2: fully free for years until company realized, oh, we actually

540
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:05,120
Speaker 2: need to be profitable. At some point, we're moving out

541
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: of a venture capital stage and into the we're going

542
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: to go public, so now we need to have a revenue.

543
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 5: Because I know a lot of those things that you

544
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 5: know when they pop like that too, they're just all

545
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,680
Speaker 5: about developing a user base. And they're not always thinking

546
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 5: about the profit motive up front. We'll get to that,

547
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 5: but first we have to get to a place where

548
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,760
Speaker 5: we have this unimpeachably massive user base.

549
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:30,000
Speaker 4: And this is what we are investigating this evening, folks,

550
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:35,400
Speaker 4: dating as a business romance, as a digital empire. We

551
00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 4: kid the not fellow conspiracy realist, there is a conspiracy afoot.

552
00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 5: Okay, let's take a quick pause in this chat about

553
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:47,600
Speaker 5: online dating. Here a word from our sponsors, and then

554
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 5: come back with more.

555
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:58,480
Speaker 3: And we've returned.

556
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 4: Here's where it gets crazy. What are we talking about?

557
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 4: All right, let's just name guys. Let's name every dating

558
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 4: app we know, just so we can all hear how

559
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 4: very they appear to be. Maybe take a deep breath together,

560
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:19,359
Speaker 4: because I'm sure we got a lot to go through.

561
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 3: Her hymns.

562
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 2: No, that's that's that's yeah, Ashley mad O, Tender Tinder.

563
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,759
Speaker 3: We mentioned a lot of these already, Hinge, Okay, the.

564
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:41,600
Speaker 4: League Yeah, a's are b LK Hakuna pairs, et cetera,

565
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 4: et cetera. Which is a thing I made up, but

566
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 4: I think it's a good idea for a very lazy

567
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 4: dating app. Just et cetera, et cetera. What are you into?

568
00:34:51,840 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 4: What's your profile now?

569
00:34:53,160 --> 00:34:53,359
Speaker 2: No?

570
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 3: Coffee meets Bagel is one that I like the name of.

571
00:34:57,239 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 5: And then you have like things like Jday, which has

572
00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:00,919
Speaker 5: been around for a very long time that is again

573
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,719
Speaker 5: specifically for you know, people of the Jewish faith.

574
00:35:04,400 --> 00:35:05,360
Speaker 3: Mm. Yeah.

575
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,800
Speaker 4: And then you have Christian mingle is that one.

576
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,040
Speaker 3: Plenty of Fish, which I think is a Christian thing

577
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:14,320
Speaker 3: too because of the fish symbol or is it not? No,

578
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:15,920
Speaker 3: it's not oka. I always assume that it was.

579
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 4: It's like plenty of fish, yes, but I guess I.

580
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 3: Always assumed that. I don't know why I thought that

581
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:22,160
Speaker 3: the fish thing just just threw me interesting.

582
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:26,840
Speaker 4: Can you can you date citations of plenty of fish?

583
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:27,640
Speaker 4: That's unfair.

584
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:29,640
Speaker 3: They're mammals, I mean, and it's you know.

585
00:35:29,719 --> 00:35:32,719
Speaker 5: I think the point of this list, including some made

586
00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,520
Speaker 5: up ones, are to show just how specialized, uh and

587
00:35:36,719 --> 00:35:42,719
Speaker 5: varied and seemingly completely different the apps in this massive

588
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 5: world that is online dating can be.

589
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 4: Right specialized across any number of variables, some more specialized

590
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,279
Speaker 4: than to others, each with their own unique reputation. You

591
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,479
Speaker 4: have a love of your life and mind, you will

592
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:04,479
Speaker 4: find that demographic on insert site here, welcome to et cetera,

593
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 4: et cetera dot org. We're not. Ok yeah, right, well,

594
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,400
Speaker 4: that's why we can't get investors because of the profit.

595
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 4: Most dating apps are ultimately owned by a single company.

596
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,880
Speaker 4: That's right, fellow conspiracy realist. There is one dating app

597
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 4: to rule them, moll an Illuminati of online romance, a

598
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:36,799
Speaker 4: cable of digital dating. Can we get a drum roll?

599
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:38,000
Speaker 4: Tri force.

600
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,920
Speaker 5: Match dot Com Incorporate LLC.

601
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:53,160
Speaker 3: Incredibly Corporation.

602
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 4: Yes, they're a bill litigious.

603
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,360
Speaker 2: And when we say most, let's let's give that listens

604
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 2: tender hinge. Okay, but plenty of fish. The League metic

605
00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: asar or As are Chispa b LK, Hakuna Pears. There's uh,

606
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 2: there's more. Well, no, I think that's it. I was

607
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:13,319
Speaker 2: on their website just a moment ago looking at all

608
00:37:13,360 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: of the the different.

609
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,040
Speaker 4: ICI forty five plus. Those are the ones they brag

610
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:19,719
Speaker 4: about there.

611
00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're they're like topped here, and if you go

612
00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 2: on their website you may think, oh, that's all they've got.

613
00:37:24,880 --> 00:37:25,720
Speaker 3: No no, no, no no no.

614
00:37:25,560 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 4: No no no no no no. Officially known as Match

615
00:37:29,880 --> 00:37:34,560
Speaker 4: Group Incorporated, this company is based in Dallas, Texas. For

616
00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,760
Speaker 4: anybody not from the United States, Dallas is a pretty

617
00:37:38,760 --> 00:37:42,319
Speaker 4: big deal here. President got shot there back in the day.

618
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,839
Speaker 3: I think I read something about them, Yeah right, we did.

619
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,080
Speaker 4: Au We looked into it as the our buddies, Rob

620
00:37:49,160 --> 00:37:55,320
Speaker 4: Reiner and Solidad O'Brien. The idea of match dot com

621
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 4: or what becomes match dot com is pretty fascinating. It's

622
00:37:59,200 --> 00:38:02,600
Speaker 4: created way back in nineteen ninety three by a guy

623
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:09,240
Speaker 4: named Gary Craven, Simon Glenski, and pangte Oong in San Francisco.

624
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,320
Speaker 4: And at the beginning to the earlier point about classified ads,

625
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 4: that's all they were trying to do. They were taking

626
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 4: the personal classified ads to the Internet and they were

627
00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:27,719
Speaker 4: calling it. You love this electric classifieds incorporate breaking to

628
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:29,960
Speaker 4: electric bugaloo.

629
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. And there's a there's one individual dude that

630
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 2: ended up buying up a ton of different domains. They

631
00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:44,360
Speaker 2: were like match dot com, super simple URLs that you

632
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,799
Speaker 2: could get to and he didn't have anything on him yet,

633
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: but he's one of the you know, there's that time

634
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 2: on the Internet where that was a that was a

635
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,120
Speaker 2: viable business plan.

636
00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:55,160
Speaker 4: Just by sting dot com.

637
00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,719
Speaker 5: It still is still is, my friends, I mean, I

638
00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 5: think of the show Matt riddle aboutty money.

639
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:03,160
Speaker 3: That's he does this forget for laughs.

640
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:08,800
Speaker 5: He bought the URLDJ COVID nineteen just when COVID nineteen

641
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,240
Speaker 5: was kicking. Justis in case they're like, you know, when

642
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 5: it's like not too soon anymore that somebody comes out

643
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 5: and wants that artist. There is a story on NPR

644
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:18,600
Speaker 5: not terribly long ago about a dude who truly made

645
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 5: good by just buying up combinations of different political figures

646
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:25,520
Speaker 5: in the hopes or you know, in the case in

647
00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:28,560
Speaker 5: the event that they ended up running mates and he

648
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,160
Speaker 5: made good and sold some of those to some serious tickets.

649
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, And in this case, this person bought a bunch

650
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 2: of these and then put them together, and all of

651
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 2: them had classified ads essentially for different things. Someone were

652
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 2: for autos, for cars, someone were for this type of thing.

653
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 2: And it is just amazing that somebody had that idea,

654
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:52,440
Speaker 2: created this thing, and then almost immediately it reminded me

655
00:39:52,480 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 2: a lot of Marshall Brain actually, the founder of houset

656
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,400
Speaker 2: works dot com. Where you start this huge thing and

657
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 2: you have an idea for it, and then as soon

658
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,720
Speaker 2: as it starts to blossom, it doesn't get taken away.

659
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,759
Speaker 2: But there are now investors and board members and they

660
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,520
Speaker 2: can make decisions in metastasizes.

661
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 4: Yeah, would be a way to look at it, an

662
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 4: all priest, dude to Marshall brain, Let's go to David

663
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:22,359
Speaker 4: Kusher who puts it this way writing for The Atlantic.

664
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,080
Speaker 4: We got we've got a great origin story for our

665
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:31,960
Speaker 4: buddy Gary, and it will introduce the director of marketing

666
00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:37,000
Speaker 4: that we were talking about later who really really changes

667
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 4: the game. This is a field of dreams. If you

668
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,439
Speaker 4: build it, they will come kind of moment. This will

669
00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:48,080
Speaker 4: also ultimately be familiar to anybody who's tried to throw

670
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,719
Speaker 4: a house party and get their ratio right.

671
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 2: Okay, and here is that quote about Gary kremin and

672
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 2: again is from the Atlantic, David Kusher quote. There was

673
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:02,799
Speaker 2: a no four letter word for love he knew, and

674
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:07,840
Speaker 2: it was data, the stuff he would use to match people.

675
00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:14,520
Speaker 2: He could gather data about each client, attributes, assling interests,

676
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,960
Speaker 2: desires for mates, and then compare them with other clients

677
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,120
Speaker 2: data to make matches. With a computer and the Internet,

678
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 2: he could eliminate the inefficiencies of thousands of years of

679
00:41:24,800 --> 00:41:29,680
Speaker 2: analog dating, the shyness, the mist cues, the posturing. He

680
00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 2: would provide customers with a questionnaire, generate a series of answers,

681
00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:37,040
Speaker 2: and then pair up daters based on how well their

682
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:38,240
Speaker 2: preferences aligned.

683
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:43,400
Speaker 4: It's perfect perfect, It's a littleical. I don't know. I

684
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,439
Speaker 4: you know there there might be a diminishing return at

685
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:53,520
Speaker 4: sub point, Like we've all been in situations where someone

686
00:41:54,360 --> 00:42:00,480
Speaker 4: feels like they're predeciding and interaction, you know what I mean.

687
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:03,840
Speaker 4: Have you guys ever had that moment where you're dating

688
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,839
Speaker 4: someone and I'll be a little personal here, and in

689
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,120
Speaker 4: the first or second date they described to you the

690
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:12,520
Speaker 4: marriage you're going to have.

691
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:20,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe you know what not yet, Yeah, you got better.

692
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 3: You got better luck in love than me and.

693
00:42:21,920 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 4: Mad Hey guys, spoiler didn't work out.

694
00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 2: Oh dang, come on man, Well, I want to talk

695
00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 2: about a personal thing towards the conclusions of these episodes

696
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:38,360
Speaker 2: or this episode. But uh, it was something an insight

697
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:42,080
Speaker 2: that I've discovered through learning about all this stuff. But

698
00:42:42,920 --> 00:42:45,520
Speaker 2: I do not I do not have that experience. I

699
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,680
Speaker 2: do think this is one of those beautiful dreams. Right,

700
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:53,720
Speaker 2: you see a problem I can imagine in this person's world,

701
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 2: Gary's world, and then you can see, well, I know

702
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,920
Speaker 2: how to do X, Y and Z. Maybe if I

703
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 2: apply that to this big problem, I can save the world.

704
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 4: Maybe by Excel spreadsheet was the answer all along.

705
00:43:08,160 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 5: And the thing is I mean, and you know, again

706
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:12,319
Speaker 5: I mentioned earlier the idea of like you know, there's

707
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 5: no magic bullets to finding love, but the closest thing

708
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,640
Speaker 5: that you can sell as that is something like this.

709
00:43:19,680 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 3: And the reason that people are buying it is because

710
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:26,640
Speaker 3: it does have a relative success rate to some degree.

711
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:30,160
Speaker 5: Remember the you remember those E Harmony of course, the

712
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 5: real testimonials, right sure, the guy.

713
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 2: That would come on, I can hear his voice, I

714
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:38,799
Speaker 2: can't see his face right now in this moment, but

715
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 2: the guy who would say compatibility compatiity, not compatibility. Compatibility

716
00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,920
Speaker 2: is the number one thing that's gonna find you true love.

717
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,279
Speaker 2: And that's why E Harmony.

718
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:53,480
Speaker 3: Only we can sust that out for you with all

719
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:53,960
Speaker 3: of the day.

720
00:43:54,120 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 4: Also, also let us let us admire from the from

721
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 4: the higher elevation. Let us admire the absolute aspiration of this,

722
00:44:08,080 --> 00:44:13,560
Speaker 4: the idea that you could one could quantify the unquantifiable

723
00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,680
Speaker 4: things like love for anybody. Right now, if you are

724
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 4: listening to this show and you are head over heels

725
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:25,040
Speaker 4: in love, and that love is reciprocated. You can't really

726
00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 4: put numbers on it. Come on, man, that's a different

727
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:30,960
Speaker 4: part of the brain. So there is this idea. It's

728
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 4: again like the like the concept of how science answers

729
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:40,799
Speaker 4: how and spirituality answers why. Love is a ven diagram

730
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 4: between those two things. So is it not a bit

731
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:48,239
Speaker 4: cold to say if you answered X to the following

732
00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,799
Speaker 4: Z questions, then we are why compatible?

733
00:44:51,920 --> 00:44:53,319
Speaker 3: Sure? Touch, Sure.

734
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:55,520
Speaker 5: But also it's like if you think about people kind

735
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,359
Speaker 5: of romanticizing the idea of like finding your soulmates. If

736
00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,440
Speaker 5: you think about logistically, which is the absolute you know,

737
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:06,239
Speaker 5: massive amount of possible soulmates that are out there, what

738
00:45:06,320 --> 00:45:09,920
Speaker 5: are the chances that you found the one best person

739
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,879
Speaker 5: for you? Yes, they might be great, You guys might

740
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 5: be completely compatible. But what systems like this do is

741
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,680
Speaker 5: widen that net in a way where maybe I could

742
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,200
Speaker 5: actually find that person statistically.

743
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,800
Speaker 4: But I would say also to take it a step

744
00:45:26,040 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 4: three steps further. First, that reduces people to quantifiable aspects,

745
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:35,360
Speaker 4: which is an unholy thing to attempt. Second, uh, the

746
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 4: idea of a soulmate naturally includes the concept of people

747
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 4: who were born and died before you were here and

748
00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:49,000
Speaker 4: are going to be alive and die after you have passed,

749
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,640
Speaker 4: such that you know, cloud Atlas becomes an awesome job.

750
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:55,680
Speaker 4: People believe in reading.

751
00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:57,560
Speaker 5: But that's because if you think about it, though, I mean,

752
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:59,440
Speaker 5: I understand what you're saying, Ben, But the idea of

753
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,239
Speaker 5: a soulmate is about compatibility, is about a match of

754
00:46:04,480 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 5: various characteristics. The question is to what percentage, to what

755
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,080
Speaker 5: degree are you nailing those matches? And is there a

756
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 5: better version out there you know of the one that

757
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 5: you've already found.

758
00:46:16,000 --> 00:46:19,920
Speaker 4: Right, that's the third point, the idea to keep people

759
00:46:20,040 --> 00:46:27,239
Speaker 4: eternally chasing the better possibility. When human beings were largely

760
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,520
Speaker 4: living and dying within about thirty miles of where they

761
00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 4: were born, their choices were limited, right, as were their resources.

762
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:42,280
Speaker 4: Your questionnaire became something like, can you create children? Can

763
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 4: we have child labor on the farm? Do you agree

764
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 4: with my idea about God? Because I certainly cannot disagree

765
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:57,120
Speaker 4: with it, So we cannot have a discourse about this.

766
00:46:57,120 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 4: This is what our buddy Gary's dealing with. He starts

767
00:47:00,680 --> 00:47:03,960
Speaker 4: off the same way we are. He's beginning from his

768
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:09,960
Speaker 4: own lived experiences, his own preferences, and he builds his questionnaire.

769
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:15,520
Speaker 4: He tries to sum the human heart up in a spreadsheet,

770
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:21,279
Speaker 4: right in quantifiable terms, and he realizes all of a sudden, hey,

771
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,080
Speaker 4: I'm not the golden goose. And then thank god he

772
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,960
Speaker 4: doesn't have an ego, because he says, wait, no dudes,

773
00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,960
Speaker 4: no straight dudes here are going to be the golden goose.

774
00:47:34,800 --> 00:47:37,920
Speaker 4: I can get guys to pay for this service, this

775
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 4: online dating thing, but my real goal is going to

776
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:47,440
Speaker 4: have is going to be to get women there somehow. Otherwise,

777
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:51,480
Speaker 4: why will these straight dudes bother paying for this in

778
00:47:51,560 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 4: the first place? And we have to remember context. It's

779
00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 4: the mid nineteen nineties. People who identify as women are

780
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:04,320
Speaker 4: about ten percent of the folks online. The typical computer

781
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 4: user is one male, two unmarried three at a computer

782
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,680
Speaker 4: for hours on end every week.

783
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,240
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, imagine the as we're talking about the history

784
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:22,279
Speaker 2: of I don't know, companionship or whatever this stuff is,

785
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:28,360
Speaker 2: the amount of unwanted male attention man woman experiences and

786
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:32,640
Speaker 2: then asking them to go on and sign up and

787
00:48:32,760 --> 00:48:35,399
Speaker 2: put all this information about yourself so that you can

788
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: get a crap ton of male attention.

789
00:48:38,320 --> 00:48:41,319
Speaker 4: Right, which still continues to do there.

790
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,560
Speaker 5: But there is a feature built into this that makes

791
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 5: it appealing, which is the idea that you're not going

792
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:47,520
Speaker 5: I mean, I forget again. Some of these apps are different,

793
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,279
Speaker 5: but there are certain ones where you're not going to

794
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,640
Speaker 5: open up a chat unless the woman consents, which.

795
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:54,360
Speaker 4: Yeah, but Gary has that.

796
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:56,919
Speaker 5: I'm just saying, and I understand what I'm just saying,

797
00:48:56,960 --> 00:48:59,160
Speaker 5: Like there is a version that we're going to get

798
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:02,680
Speaker 5: to that does benefit women, but even that then kind

799
00:49:02,680 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 5: of gets bastardized and becomes its own sort of monstrosity.

800
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 3: So sorry to jump ahead too much, but yeah, where's

801
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:09,680
Speaker 3: Gary going with this?

802
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 2: But also in the mid nineteen nineties, most of us

803
00:49:13,680 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 2: were just playing Ultima online and on Aim pretending to

804
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:18,560
Speaker 2: be we're twenty Oh yeah them.

805
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:21,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, sorry, it's hilarious, dude, I love it.

806
00:49:23,400 --> 00:49:26,040
Speaker 4: I mean, and that's a that's a big part of it,

807
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:32,480
Speaker 4: because people are just like Gary, basing the world on themselves. Right,

808
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 4: this is me, so this must be logically everybody. Gary

809
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:39,680
Speaker 4: is doing a really smart thing. And he says, look,

810
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,440
Speaker 4: I gotta go figure out people who are not me.

811
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,600
Speaker 4: I gotta if we want women on my weird thing

812
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:49,799
Speaker 4: then and he didn't call this weird thing, then I

813
00:49:49,920 --> 00:49:52,920
Speaker 4: have to talk to actual women. I have to figure

814
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:56,880
Speaker 4: out what people's worlds who are not like me, like,

815
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,560
Speaker 4: what's going on with them? What do they care about?

816
00:50:00,080 --> 00:50:03,319
Speaker 4: And when he had these conversations, the lore of the

817
00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:06,680
Speaker 4: story goes that he talked to all of his female

818
00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:12,239
Speaker 4: relationships or familial members. He talked to people he just

819
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 4: found on the street, his friends, and they said, your

820
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:21,719
Speaker 4: questionnaire needs a lot of work, because your questionnaire is

821
00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 4: about you, and they said in particular, I think it

822
00:50:25,640 --> 00:50:32,560
Speaker 4: was a big cold shower for him when unanimously women said, hey, Bud,

823
00:50:32,920 --> 00:50:36,840
Speaker 4: your explicit sexual questions are kind of a non starter.

824
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,799
Speaker 4: That's a turn off. And then they hit him with

825
00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 4: another one and they said, why on earth would I

826
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:48,280
Speaker 4: want random guys to your earlier point, Matt? Why would

827
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,360
Speaker 4: I want random guys to see my real name and

828
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 4: my photo online? Because that would mean they could find me.

829
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 2: I was listening to that podcast it look Deep into

830
00:51:01,600 --> 00:51:04,040
Speaker 2: this Land of the Giants. It was like season six

831
00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:05,560
Speaker 2: or seven, I think maybe.

832
00:51:05,360 --> 00:51:07,040
Speaker 4: Episode two Dating Games.

833
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, the entire series it's all about dating apps

834
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 2: and they go into in depth. There a bunch of

835
00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:19,480
Speaker 2: the stuff that was online that people were doing who

836
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:22,040
Speaker 2: were actually developing these things, but hot or not do

837
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 2: you guys remember that that was a big one of

838
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 2: the big pushes there trying to figure out why would

839
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 2: to this specific problem, Why would a woman or a

840
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:36,120
Speaker 2: female put a picture of themselves online for it to

841
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:38,160
Speaker 2: be judged essentially by other people?

842
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:40,560
Speaker 5: Was it hot or not like the early Facebook model,

843
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:43,160
Speaker 5: or is it that or is it something like.

844
00:51:43,160 --> 00:51:44,880
Speaker 2: Things like that. That wasn't the only one, but that

845
00:51:44,920 --> 00:51:46,840
Speaker 2: was the big one where it was like, how do

846
00:51:46,920 --> 00:51:49,000
Speaker 2: you what is the thing that causes someone to put

847
00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:51,799
Speaker 2: their picture on there for it to be judged to

848
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:55,760
Speaker 2: see if people like me? Essentially? Right? That the primary motivation?

849
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 3: Why would you open yourself up to ridicule?

850
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,200
Speaker 5: Why would you open yourself up to that kind of

851
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:01,080
Speaker 5: judgment and or harassment?

852
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,920
Speaker 2: Ginger Well, yeah, exactly, But what is that thing that spark?

853
00:52:05,160 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 2: And trying to capture what that is and then somehow

854
00:52:08,040 --> 00:52:10,560
Speaker 2: incorporate it into this thing he's building.

855
00:52:11,280 --> 00:52:13,920
Speaker 3: And incorporate a sense of safety, incorporate a sense.

856
00:52:13,760 --> 00:52:16,560
Speaker 5: Of like, yeah, exactly, what's what's the buy in for

857
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 5: someone to be willing to give this kind of information up?

858
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:22,680
Speaker 2: I I don't mean to say that there's negative motivation

859
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,280
Speaker 2: for any of these things that are being created especially

860
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:27,680
Speaker 2: at this time with Gary. It's it is that thing

861
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 2: of how do I get people to use this thing?

862
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:30,680
Speaker 3: Right?

863
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:35,160
Speaker 4: It's Field the dreams, Right, it's Field the Dreams. He's

864
00:52:35,200 --> 00:52:39,480
Speaker 4: a Kevin Costner, you know, is or whomever Kevin Costner

865
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,040
Speaker 4: was acting as in that He's like, how do I

866
00:52:42,160 --> 00:52:45,640
Speaker 4: get these people to show up to the ballgame. Eventually

867
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:50,480
Speaker 4: he understands the best way to find out what women

868
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 4: really want the age old quest. He needs get this

869
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 4: you guys, real life women on the team. So he

870
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:03,120
Speaker 4: contacts his former classmate fran Meyer from his time at

871
00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:07,400
Speaker 4: Stanford and he hires her as the director of marketing,

872
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:12,480
Speaker 4: and to her credit, she immediately clocks a secondary issue

873
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:16,279
Speaker 4: and she says, Gary, women aren't going to join up

874
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:21,000
Speaker 4: for your internet thing unless they know there are already

875
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:27,920
Speaker 4: other women in the sandbox, unless they're already participating. Hold

876
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:32,440
Speaker 4: the phone, folks, amid all this discourse ed exploration of

877
00:53:32,719 --> 00:53:36,879
Speaker 4: monopolization and conspiracy, we hope that you will swipe right

878
00:53:37,239 --> 00:53:40,840
Speaker 4: on part two of the Illuminati of Online Dating. We

879
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,359
Speaker 4: can't wait to hear your thoughts. Join us later this

880
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:46,839
Speaker 4: week for wait did I say Part two? We'll keep

881
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 4: it in We've got a two part episode. We want

882
00:53:50,760 --> 00:53:54,040
Speaker 4: to hang out with you. Please let us know what's

883
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,080
Speaker 4: on your mind. We try to be easy to find online.

884
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:57,680
Speaker 3: That's right.

885
00:53:57,719 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 5: You can find us in the handle Conspiracy Stuff where

886
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 5: we exist on Facebook with our Facebook group Here's where

887
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:06,080
Speaker 5: it gets crazy, on x FKA, Twitter, and on YouTube.

888
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,280
Speaker 5: You can also find us at the handle conspiracy Stuff

889
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:09,480
Speaker 5: on Instagram and TikTok.

890
00:54:09,760 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 2: We've got a phone number. It's one eight three three

891
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 2: std WYTK. When you call in and say something like that,

892
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 2: E harmony guy was Neil Clark Warren, Doctor Neil Clark Warren,

893
00:54:21,520 --> 00:54:25,439
Speaker 2: the American clinical psychologist and Christian theologian that was coming

894
00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:29,120
Speaker 2: on TV and said, E harmony. You could say things

895
00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,200
Speaker 2: like that, or just give us a little insight into

896
00:54:31,239 --> 00:54:34,239
Speaker 2: your world, or is something we missed anything? Give us

897
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:37,120
Speaker 2: a call, give yourself a cool nickname, and you've got

898
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:39,560
Speaker 2: three minutes say whatever you'd like. If you got more

899
00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:41,840
Speaker 2: to say than could fit into a three minute voicemail,

900
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,160
Speaker 2: why not instead send us a good old fashioned email.

901
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:48,440
Speaker 4: We are the entities that read every piece of correspondence

902
00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:52,040
Speaker 4: we receive. It's one of the best ways to contact us.

903
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:55,280
Speaker 4: Everything you heard before the end applies to our email

904
00:54:55,320 --> 00:54:59,000
Speaker 4: address as well. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the

905
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:02,040
Speaker 4: void writes back, and it could be any of us

906
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,920
Speaker 4: that you're hearing this evening. Join us out here in

907
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 4: the dark conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

908
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:29,640
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't want you to Know is a production

909
00:55:29,760 --> 00:55:34,279
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

910
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,600
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.