WEBVTT - Reddit's CEO on Fake News and Free Speech 0:00:05.640 --> 0:00:08.640 Hi Brian, Hi Katie Brian. The top website in the 0:00:08.680 --> 0:00:10.840 US is Google. Number two is YouTube. Do you know 0:00:10.880 --> 0:00:13.119 what number three is? Well, if you'd asked me up 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:16.120 until recently, I would have said maybe Facebook or Amazon. 0:00:17.079 --> 0:00:19.200 You know, you would have been wrong, because it turns out, 0:00:19.239 --> 0:00:22.760 according to the most recent data, the number three website 0:00:22.760 --> 0:00:25.880 in America is actually read It, which I think we 0:00:25.920 --> 0:00:28.600 were both pretty surprised to hear. Yeah, and that brings 0:00:28.680 --> 0:00:31.000 us to our guest today, Reddit CEO and one of 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.559 its co founders, Steve Huffman. We taped this podcast in 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:38.440 front of a live audience at the wonderful Aspen Ideas Festival. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.519 I love this festival. I've come every year, I think 0:00:41.520 --> 0:00:44.919 for the past decades, so clearly it's one of my favorites. 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:47.400 Now many, if not most, of the people who use 0:00:47.479 --> 0:00:50.720 Reddit are in their teens and twenties. So for my 0:00:50.840 --> 0:00:53.520 peers and others who may not be that familiar with it, 0:00:53.800 --> 0:00:55.720 let me get you up to speed. Reddit is a 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.880 site that's made up of lots of different communities called 0:00:59.080 --> 0:01:03.120 sub reddits, where people can post articles, videos, thoughts. The 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.399 sky's the limit really, and there are actually over a 0:01:05.480 --> 0:01:09.280 million subreddits devoted to everything from world news to crafts 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.120 to life hacks like how do you get abs? Like 0:01:12.160 --> 0:01:17.680 Brian Goldsmith answers it's very hard, very funny. The site 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:22.240 actually has remarkably simple interface, almost dated really, And I 0:01:22.319 --> 0:01:25.200 was very excited to talk to Steve Reddit CEO because 0:01:25.200 --> 0:01:28.399 the site has found itself in the crosshairs of some 0:01:28.680 --> 0:01:31.880 very thorny issues these days. So we spoke with Steve 0:01:31.920 --> 0:01:34.800 about everything from fake news to Russian bods, to pizza 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.640 gate to hate speech, and we started by asking how 0:01:37.680 --> 0:01:43.800 would he describe Reddit? Even at Reddit, this is something 0:01:43.880 --> 0:01:46.520 we debate a lot of what redd it is and 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.520 how to explain Reddit to folks, but effectively read it 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.880 as a network of communities. And so we have communities 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:56.920 that cover pretty much any topic imaginable. So things that 0:01:56.920 --> 0:02:02.320 that are very recognizable, so news, sports, politics, um, pretty 0:02:02.400 --> 0:02:07.760 much any interest and passion. And birds with arms is 0:02:08.680 --> 0:02:11.320 would be up there. Um birds with arms as a 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:16.560 community where one photoshops arms on the birds. Um. No, 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.080 it's this is important stuff. I'm glad you're here. Um. 0:02:21.919 --> 0:02:25.240 And then we also have communities. Um uh, excuse me, 0:02:25.320 --> 0:02:27.640 I cleaned myself this morning. I have a hairball. Um. 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:35.240 Communities uh dedicated to UH support in helping each other out. 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:38.080 Some communities for new parents who are maybe struggling with that, 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.800 our communities for people are struggling with addiction or other 0:02:40.840 --> 0:02:44.400 difficult times in their life. And so really any topic 0:02:44.480 --> 0:02:48.040 around UH, you know, the things that humans will gather 0:02:48.120 --> 0:02:50.960 around a communicate around, is represented on Reddit somewhere. And 0:02:51.000 --> 0:02:55.160 so our mission Reddit is to bring UH community in 0:02:55.200 --> 0:02:57.560 a sense of belonging to everybody on the planet. So 0:02:57.600 --> 0:03:00.600 since people in this room no offense to you, all 0:03:01.040 --> 0:03:04.919 may not be read it's demographic. Who is Rennet's demographic? 0:03:05.160 --> 0:03:08.520 And why do you think it caught fire so quickly 0:03:08.680 --> 0:03:12.800 at the outset? Sure, so uh you all are are 0:03:12.880 --> 0:03:18.880 maybe not our primary demographic, but um we read it 0:03:19.000 --> 0:03:21.640 is broad enough now that that pretty much everybody has 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:24.640 represented on Reddit somewhere. So I guarantee all of you 0:03:24.680 --> 0:03:27.600 have a home on Reddit somewhere the way Redd has 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.720 grown our origin. So we're thirteen years old. We started 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:33.040 in two thousand five. My college roommate and I started 0:03:33.080 --> 0:03:36.400 read it immediately after we graduated, and at the time 0:03:36.400 --> 0:03:40.320 read it was just a pile of links, no categorization, 0:03:40.800 --> 0:03:44.760 no communities, no no commenting even and what what made 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:47.680 redd at work. Then it was very, very serendipitous. And 0:03:47.720 --> 0:03:50.880 the reason we grew is because both those that serendipity, 0:03:50.880 --> 0:03:52.640 you never knew what you're gonna find. You're gonna find 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:55.040 some politics, Are you're gonna find an Internet meme? Are 0:03:55.040 --> 0:03:58.680 you going to find commentary critical of Reddit or something else? 0:03:59.360 --> 0:04:03.560 And it was very genuine and authentic, and we resonated 0:04:03.640 --> 0:04:06.120 with I think I think a generation of people who 0:04:06.680 --> 0:04:10.560 had just become kind of skeptical and jaded of of everything, right, 0:04:10.600 --> 0:04:14.080 of all media, of news, of Anything's just this feeling 0:04:14.120 --> 0:04:16.320 of like everything is bullshit, I'm always being lied to, 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.200 And so we still have that aspect to read it, 0:04:19.240 --> 0:04:22.440 and so we still um pick up users in high 0:04:22.480 --> 0:04:24.960 school and college. I think when when when young adults 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:27.560 are turning into adults and they're starting to develop kind 0:04:27.600 --> 0:04:31.360 of worldviews and skepticism and critical thinking, read it is 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:33.680 a great place for them. But then we tend to 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.080 keep them, you know, and and and so we're thirteen 0:04:36.120 --> 0:04:38.479 years old now, so I would say our our media 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:42.359 age is probably you know, let's call it three, but 0:04:42.400 --> 0:04:44.839 our average age is increasing over time. So people who 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.120 want kind of an outlet to express their views and 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:50.760 to share it with other people are attracted to read it. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.039 But like all of their social platforms, you all have 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:57.480 been going through your fair share of controversy, and we're 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.080 gonna talk about some of the challenges that you all 0:05:00.080 --> 0:05:02.040 had faced as a platform in a moment. But first 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:04.640 we want to talk about how this whole thing began. 0:05:05.080 --> 0:05:08.240 You started Reddit. You and your college roommate founded the 0:05:08.240 --> 0:05:11.719 company just a few weeks after graduating from the University 0:05:11.720 --> 0:05:14.400 of Virginia back in two thousand five. So how did 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:18.640 you come up with the idea? Well, almost accidentally, my 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:22.360 roommate Alexis Hanion and I we we have been roommates 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:24.760 and housemates all through college, and on our last year 0:05:24.760 --> 0:05:27.520 of college, we started talking about companies that we might 0:05:27.560 --> 0:05:32.360 start together. And at the same time an idol of mine, 0:05:32.400 --> 0:05:35.840 this fellow Paul Graham, who he started a company of 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:37.799 his own that sold during the bubble, and he would 0:05:37.800 --> 0:05:43.200 write online evangelizing startups and and his whole journey, and 0:05:43.200 --> 0:05:46.120 he eventually founded why comminat So he started by Combinator, 0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:49.080 which at the time was a kind of a rag 0:05:49.160 --> 0:05:53.719 tag group of investors and is now the largest siege 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:55.640 stage investment firm in the world. They do about four 0:05:56.000 --> 0:05:59.560 companies a year. Back in two thousand five, we applied 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.480 to y C with a completely different idea. I had 0:06:02.520 --> 0:06:05.119 to do with ordering food from from your cell phone. 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:10.800 We were wisely rejected this first one. Yes, yeah, it 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:16.160 was an idea actually ahead of its time. Um uh. 0:06:16.640 --> 0:06:19.920 But but Paul and his partner Jessica basically reached out 0:06:19.960 --> 0:06:22.520 to us and said, we really like you too. If 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:24.960 you want to be in this program, let's find something 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:26.920 else for you to do. So we had a brainstorming 0:06:26.960 --> 0:06:30.000 session and in that session we basically decided we were 0:06:30.000 --> 0:06:32.160 going to build I have this on my first page 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:33.560 and notes, We're going to build a front page of 0:06:33.560 --> 0:06:35.880 the Internet. And that's something we used to say tongue 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:39.240 in cheek back then um, and I always say it um, 0:06:39.320 --> 0:06:42.320 I think somewhat somewhat proudly now. But that was really 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:44.960 the genesis of the idea and our motivation in those 0:06:45.200 --> 0:06:48.320 those first months was I didn't want to look stupid 0:06:48.320 --> 0:06:50.440 in front of Paul Graham, and I didn't want my 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:53.600 mom to be right because she wanted me to get 0:06:53.600 --> 0:06:56.479 a real job. And I was going up to Boston 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:58.480 to work with this weirdo Paul on this on this 0:06:58.560 --> 0:07:00.840 Reddit thing. Fun fact, by the way, we like to 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:03.800 sprinkle our podcast with these. Your co founder, Alexis you 0:07:03.880 --> 0:07:07.520 just mentioned, is now married to Serena Williams. That's pretty cool. 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.160 That is a fun fact. Do you and your wife 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:13.720 ever double date with them? I am no longer married. 0:07:14.520 --> 0:07:17.040 Well that do you ever go out as a threesome? 0:07:19.600 --> 0:07:23.239 Let's not misinterpret that question. Okay, do you ever tagal 0:07:23.360 --> 0:07:28.360 on ever the third Wheel? Uh? No, very very seldomly 0:07:28.720 --> 0:07:31.640 Alexis and Serna, I have honestly no idea where in 0:07:31.640 --> 0:07:33.840 the world they are at any point in time. But 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.040 you're still good friends with Alexis. We've been friends a 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:39.360 long time. Yeah. Well, let's talk about after you launched 0:07:39.360 --> 0:07:41.720 the company, because it was seventeen months later and you 0:07:41.800 --> 0:07:45.360 sold it to Conde Nast of all places. You have 0:07:45.440 --> 0:07:48.360 said that you regretted that decision. Why, well, I have 0:07:48.480 --> 0:07:50.920 said that, and I've also backtracked off of that. I've 0:07:51.520 --> 0:07:53.600 in fact changed my story on this a lot over 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:59.800 the years, you know, as it serves me, and really 0:07:59.800 --> 0:08:05.360 in gendering trust there, mostly with perspective. So the context 0:08:05.400 --> 0:08:07.680 in which we sold the company, this was in two 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.640 thousand six. As I mentioned, when we started the company, 0:08:10.680 --> 0:08:14.160 we didn't have a vision or a mission. We were 0:08:14.200 --> 0:08:16.160 a little dysfunctional. We didn't know where we were going. 0:08:16.200 --> 0:08:20.320 The economy wasn't looking pretty on the horizon. And along 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:22.680 came Conde and asked offering to give us a bunch 0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.720 of money for this thing, and so we said, well, 0:08:24.720 --> 0:08:27.320 this seems like a pretty good idea, and and it's funny. 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:31.440 I went into that acquisition with the mentality of I 0:08:31.440 --> 0:08:35.240 thought I was going to have the stereotypical Silicon Valley 0:08:35.280 --> 0:08:39.000 startup journey, which is founder starts, company, founder sales, company, 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:42.560 founder leaves two weeks later. I end up staying for 0:08:42.600 --> 0:08:45.520 another three years. I really really enjoyed working on Reddit, 0:08:45.800 --> 0:08:50.640 and I left in two thousand nine because for a 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:54.400 couple of reasons. One, I felt stagnant um. I felt 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:56.199 like as a person I wasn't learning and growing, and 0:08:56.240 --> 0:08:58.640 I felt like I was too young to have that 0:08:58.679 --> 0:09:00.600 feeling at work. And it's any when I look back 0:09:00.600 --> 0:09:03.480 in that time, I think that's like just absolutely insane, right, 0:09:03.480 --> 0:09:05.320 because now I just feel like I have so much 0:09:05.320 --> 0:09:07.280 to learn and I'm like so far behind. But at 0:09:07.280 --> 0:09:10.640 the time that's how I felt. I also, uh, I 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.880 liked perspective. I didn't realize I didn't appreciate how special 0:09:13.880 --> 0:09:15.240 red it was. It was the only thing we had 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:18.160 ever done, and and and so I had this perspective 0:09:18.160 --> 0:09:21.880 that if you put something online, it'll just grow and 0:09:21.880 --> 0:09:23.199 and and that was my experience with thout it. So 0:09:23.240 --> 0:09:24.560 I was like, well, I want to do something else 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:26.960 that just grows, but this time actually makes money. So 0:09:27.040 --> 0:09:29.760 I started a company with another buddy called hip Monk, 0:09:29.840 --> 0:09:33.120 which did travel search and hip Monk was interesting because 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:41.360 we were not burdened with growth um and and so 0:09:41.440 --> 0:09:45.440 that was a really good set of lessons I learned 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:47.079 there in that time, and actually as as as a 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:48.840 as a business person, learned a lot of really important 0:09:48.880 --> 0:09:51.520 lessons about how to be discipline, about customers and product 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:55.000 development and growing a team and shrinking a team at 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:56.600 the same time. Right, it continued to grow and grow 0:09:56.640 --> 0:09:59.040 and grow, and during this period when you were off 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:02.320 working on hip Monk, credit was still growing. It hired 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.600 Ellen Powell to be the CEO, and she was famous, 0:10:05.640 --> 0:10:10.439 of course pursuing Kleiner Perkins, the venture firm for gender discrimination, 0:10:10.880 --> 0:10:12.599 and when Pal got to read it, she took a 0:10:12.679 --> 0:10:16.760 number of tough, tough steps. She banned revenge porn. For example, 0:10:17.240 --> 0:10:20.680 she banned five sub credits that engaged in various forms 0:10:20.679 --> 0:10:24.760 of harassment. About two users signed a petition asking her 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:29.559 to leave, which ultimately she did with the benefit of hindsight. 0:10:30.160 --> 0:10:32.840 Do you think that she was treated unfairly at Reddit? 0:10:33.240 --> 0:10:37.440 Do I? I? You know, I think Ellen had a 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:40.040 rough go at a readit um, some within her control 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:43.680 and some knots. And but I think that the general 0:10:44.640 --> 0:10:47.880 criticisms of of of Ellen, both from the Reddit community 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.680 and from the kind of just greater community, we're really unfair. UM. 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:54.200 Having been on the receiving end of that myself as well, 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:56.920 I I know what that feels like. Um. Do you 0:10:56.960 --> 0:11:00.280 think the criticisms were motivated by gender? I think there 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:02.400 was that dimension to it, And certainly I think when 0:11:02.440 --> 0:11:04.319 you also look at it through the lens of her 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:08.760 very public lawsuit against Kleiner, that that only served to 0:11:08.800 --> 0:11:11.160 amplify that that narrative, and I think that was really 0:11:11.200 --> 0:11:13.640 unfortunate in light of a me too movement. Do you 0:11:13.679 --> 0:11:16.880 look at what happened to her any differently? Have you 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.400 had an epiphany or did you always feel that this 0:11:19.600 --> 0:11:22.200 was unfair. No. I always felt that way, you know, 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.439 and study because when when she was going through that, 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:28.840 I was not at Reddit. I was I was a civilian. 0:11:28.880 --> 0:11:32.520 I was a user watching this, and it was very 0:11:32.559 --> 0:11:34.920 frustrating to watch from a couple of dimensions. Right one 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.640 as somebody who knows Reddit really well. I was like, 0:11:38.080 --> 0:11:40.560 oh my gosh, there are things you just need to 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.520 do that I think you can get ahead of this 0:11:43.120 --> 0:11:45.640 because one of the things we we saw is or 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:48.480 always I observed from the outside, and I think Ellen 0:11:48.600 --> 0:11:51.520 was starting to get there. It's the the volume of 0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:55.199 the the vitriol was not in proportion to the number 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:58.360 of people behind it, and that, to me is a 0:11:58.360 --> 0:12:00.839 technology problem, and that's something I read it. We've always 0:12:00.840 --> 0:12:02.120 thought a lot about, and this is something that I've 0:12:02.120 --> 0:12:04.280 always thought a lot about. So watching that was particularly 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:06.920 frustrating cause I was like, there are some solutions here. 0:12:07.559 --> 0:12:10.720 At the same time, it was the that whole conversation 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:13.800 was just I think, very unproductive and toxic and and 0:12:13.880 --> 0:12:15.360 I don't I don't know if we really got anywhere 0:12:15.360 --> 0:12:17.640 with it, to be honest, either, Silicon Valley is you know, 0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.400 has an abysmal record on gender and racial equality. So 0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.200 you know, having done this company, what what kinds of 0:12:25.240 --> 0:12:27.880 things can be put in place that will change that 0:12:28.400 --> 0:12:32.320 or improve it? Yeah, I would say you're you're not wrong, 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.400 and I think on the history of Silicon Valley on 0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:39.480 the the silver lining, however, is that it is impossible 0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.320 to have a conversation in Silicon Value where this topic 0:12:42.400 --> 0:12:46.160 does not come up. Um, And I think, uh, we 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:48.520 and I say we, as somebody you know from from 0:12:48.559 --> 0:12:51.160 that area, are very aware of this issue, and I 0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:55.160 think that's probably one of the most important steps to take. 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.480 And so, um, I think we're trending in the right direction, 0:12:58.520 --> 0:13:00.120 but I think we also have a long way to go. 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.120 So do you think real policy initiatives will follow that 0:13:03.200 --> 0:13:07.239 greater awareness? Now, it depends what you mean by policy initiatives. 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:10.440 And if we're talking about I think a massive problem 0:13:10.679 --> 0:13:15.840 like gender equality is going to take probably policy changes, 0:13:15.960 --> 0:13:19.560 just awareness changes, cultural changes. There's a generational aspect to 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:21.400 it as well. There's a lot of things that have 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.600 to happen, and you know, regulation is one part of that. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:29.120 So in two thousand fifteen, six years after you left, 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:31.800 you came back to read it as the CEO, and 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.080 you were soon confronted by a number of controversies, and 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:36.560 I want to talk about a couple of them. The 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.840 first was pizza Gate, and I don't know whether you 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:42.679 all are familiar with this crazy and false story, but 0:13:43.120 --> 0:13:48.439 it started on Facebook and Twitter in October of UM. 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:51.400 The allegation basically was that Hillary and some people close 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:55.160 to her operated a child sex trafficking ring out of 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:59.080 a pizza parlor called Comet Pizza in d C. Which 0:13:59.080 --> 0:14:03.280 would be laughable, um, except that the sort of fake 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:07.240 news had real consequences when a man named Edgar Welch 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:11.200 from North Carolina showed up at Comet with an a 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:15.200 R fifteen to rescue the kids, the sex slaves who 0:14:15.240 --> 0:14:17.840 were trapped in the basement, only to find that there 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:21.360 were no kids and no basement. Um. And this was 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:25.120 on Reddit to both before and after the election. So 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.160 the bottom line is it could have been a real tragedy. 0:14:28.320 --> 0:14:30.880 Do you ever feel like, as the founder of this platform, 0:14:30.920 --> 0:14:33.440 it's the CEO of this platform, Oh my god, I 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.120 created a monster. No, not quite in that dimention. You know. 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:40.720 Pizza Gate was the community that that we saw develop 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:42.920 on Reddit, and we banned it after about two weeks, 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:47.080 long before the the incident with the the gentleman in 0:14:47.120 --> 0:14:49.840 the pizza parlor. Um. And we do watch these things 0:14:49.960 --> 0:14:53.800 very closely because while I don't think we want to 0:14:53.800 --> 0:14:56.880 be in a position where we say conspiracy theories are 0:14:56.920 --> 0:14:59.800 not allowed, right, because sometimes conspiracy theories end up be 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:03.160 being something um, But we do watch, especially in these 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.560 fringe communities, um, where is the where is the conversation going, 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.680 what direction is it heading? And with that one in particular, 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:10.920 we saw it going in a bad place, and it 0:15:10.960 --> 0:15:14.000 was also easily disproven, and so that's why we got 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:15.360 rid of them as quickly as we did, and I 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:16.520 think we were one of the first to do so. 0:15:16.720 --> 0:15:19.320 But could something like this happen again on Reddit? You know, 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:24.000 obviously the human awareness of this is not infallible. So 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.280 do you worry that this kind of situation, this kind 0:15:27.280 --> 0:15:31.160 of inform misinformation can get out of control and lead 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:34.480 to something that may have far worse consequences. I do 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:37.280 think this sort of thing can happen in any place 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:42.720 where people congregate and misinformation is uh, you know, it's 0:15:42.760 --> 0:15:44.760 it's a real threat and it's a it's a real 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.880 thing that we all face on Reddit and and anywhere 0:15:47.880 --> 0:15:51.480 else online or offline for that matter. And you know, 0:15:51.520 --> 0:15:53.880 I think one of the you know, we will do 0:15:53.920 --> 0:15:55.960 our our our best to do our partner, but I 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.120 also think there is a collective burden we all have 0:15:59.480 --> 0:16:01.960 as a as a people to be skeptical and to 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:06.520 push back on these stories, UM because you know, as 0:16:06.600 --> 0:16:09.240 a as a private company or even an individual, we're 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.840 not always going to know all of the facts or 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:13.480 be able to see everything. So we will do our 0:16:13.520 --> 0:16:15.720 best on our platform. And and in fact, we have 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.920 a number of teams dedicated to this, you know, in 0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.000 our Trust and Safety Team and our Anti Evil Team, 0:16:21.000 --> 0:16:22.920 which is our Trust and Safety team, is a team 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:28.040 of people that enforce our content policies UM and and 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:30.520 and in these communities, whether the conspiracy theory or generally 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.280 badly behaving, they generally violate all of our policies. And 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.960 so so our policies, for context are no harassing or bullying, 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:42.640 no involuntary sexualization of miners or or adults, uh, no spam, 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.960 no inciting or glorifying violence. And so we look at 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.400 these things very closely and and pretty pretty consistently. And 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:52.280 then we also have another team called the Anti Evil Team, 0:16:52.280 --> 0:16:55.000 which is a team of engineers that supports the former 0:16:55.000 --> 0:16:56.760 team at scale and tries to do this in an 0:16:56.760 --> 0:17:00.480 automated fashion. Um, but the operative word being tried. I mean, 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:04.600 how can you really police all the things that are 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:06.960 part of Reddit when I how many posts are put 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:08.840 up there a day, Steve, I have no idea how 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:13.160 many millions, millions and millions, So can you really patrol 0:17:13.320 --> 0:17:18.520 and keep this kind of misinformation even worse off the platform? Well, 0:17:18.600 --> 0:17:20.879 so another thing that's that's really important to us, and 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.760 I think that separates Reddit from our peers is our 0:17:23.840 --> 0:17:27.240 structure of community moderation. So all of our communities are 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.880 created by moderators, and those are those are not employees 0:17:30.920 --> 0:17:33.040 have read it there, just users like anybody else, and 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:35.800 their job is to set the rules and standards for 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.840 their community and enforce those standards. And of course the 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:42.040 communities themselves are submitting all of the content and curating 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.320 the content. So every the structure of Reddit is basically 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:50.440 there are over a hundred thousand communities. Within those communities, uh, 0:17:50.560 --> 0:17:53.880 community members, users, you know, me and you anybody can 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:56.760 submit content and then every piece of content can be 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:58.840 voted up or down. And so what you see is 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:01.080 what is the most popular at any point in time. 0:18:01.240 --> 0:18:03.760 But the download is also important. Right in there, that's 0:18:03.760 --> 0:18:07.240 where the community sets the tone, removes content that's inappropriate. 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.280 And one of one of our beliefs is that the 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:15.320 only thing that scales with users is users. And so 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:17.479 one of the things we spent a lot a lot 0:18:17.520 --> 0:18:20.040 of time thinking about is how do we push this 0:18:20.160 --> 0:18:23.160 burden of enforcement into our user base so that they 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:27.199 have control over this, because there's no way that a 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:30.800 company of our size, which is around four people, or 0:18:30.840 --> 0:18:35.240 any size for that matter, can police the entire internet. Um. However, 0:18:35.280 --> 0:18:37.199 I do think as a as a as a people, 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:39.760 whether we're talking about our community or if we were 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:42.320 to kind of take this these challenges up a notch 0:18:42.359 --> 0:18:44.879 and just talk about our society in general as a people, 0:18:45.040 --> 0:18:47.159 we can do that, and and and and as I 0:18:47.160 --> 0:18:49.960 think all of our burden to to police ourselves in 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:52.040 that matter. In fact, you you wrote, you wrote a 0:18:52.119 --> 0:18:54.480 letter to users, and you say it, I believe the 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.320 biggest risk we face is our own ability to discern 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:00.720 reality from nonsense. And this is a burden we all bear. 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:03.919 But isn't that a bit of a cop out basically 0:19:03.960 --> 0:19:10.479 saying this is the user's responsibility primarily. I think if 0:19:10.480 --> 0:19:13.080 you were to interpret that as this is only the 0:19:13.119 --> 0:19:15.560 user's responsibility, that would be a cop out. Um. I 0:19:15.600 --> 0:19:18.080 think we all have rules to play here. I read. 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.280 The thing that I think we are the most effective 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.159 at is building the tools and providing the framework for 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.679 doing these things at scale. And of course, something that 0:19:25.720 --> 0:19:28.159 we were talking about earlier, which is very much a 0:19:28.200 --> 0:19:31.480 technology problem, which is ensuring that the the volume of 0:19:31.480 --> 0:19:34.800 any particular viewpoint on Reddit, whether it's positive or negative, 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:37.240 true or false, is in proportion to the number of 0:19:37.240 --> 0:19:39.879 people who are saying it. Um. You know, to not 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:43.320 let our our systems be abused by bots or what 0:19:43.359 --> 0:19:45.800 we call vote manipulation people, you know, trying to steal 0:19:45.800 --> 0:19:48.040 the conversation in the wrong way. That's something that we 0:19:48.359 --> 0:19:51.240 spend quite a bit of time thinking about, because I 0:19:51.280 --> 0:19:55.119 think we should keep in mind the this this the 0:19:55.200 --> 0:19:57.840 scale at what we're talking about, which is um. If 0:19:57.840 --> 0:19:59.920 I were to paint with a broad brush, I would 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:05.000 say about Reddit mirrors humanity and about of our communities 0:20:05.000 --> 0:20:10.000 and users are wonderful, creative, collaborative, you know, interesting people. 0:20:10.240 --> 0:20:12.000 And I would say the same thing about this people 0:20:12.040 --> 0:20:15.960 in general, and one percent are are nasty and they're 0:20:16.000 --> 0:20:19.240 up to no good. And that means if we do 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:22.679 our job on the technology side and and and enforcing 0:20:22.720 --> 0:20:27.280 that that can set appropriate standards and has visibility into 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.000 what's going on, we can we can drown out the negative, 0:20:30.560 --> 0:20:32.880 you know, marginalize the negative, and do it that way 0:20:33.000 --> 0:20:35.960 when it comes to dealing with that nasty one percent, 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:38.639 I'm trying to understand how much of that content is 0:20:38.720 --> 0:20:42.760 dealt with by non Reddit employees, community managers who are 0:20:42.800 --> 0:20:45.879 enforcing the standards, and how much of it really is 0:20:45.920 --> 0:20:48.320 on you and how much But do you have to 0:20:48.359 --> 0:20:51.320 actively go and take down So for example, the year 0:20:51.440 --> 0:20:54.679 you came back, I read that you had to remove 0:20:54.760 --> 0:20:58.679 two sub reddits. One was called fat People Hate, the 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.760 other was called coon Town, which were by the way, 0:21:01.800 --> 0:21:04.959 as repugnant as they sound. And then the hate speech, 0:21:05.119 --> 0:21:09.879 you know, sub communities went down, and overall hate speech 0:21:09.920 --> 0:21:14.000 went down on the platform because participants in those communities 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:17.560 either left the site or they changed their language. But 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:22.320 it wasn't the moderators or the non employees who did it. 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:24.480 It was you guys who had to do it. Yes 0:21:24.520 --> 0:21:28.000 and no, So those communities were repugnant and and and 0:21:28.280 --> 0:21:31.200