1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,640 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to Cool Peoplehooded Cool Stuff, 2 00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 1: your weekly reminder that when there's bad things happening, there's 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,840 Speaker 1: people trying to do good things, often succeeding at doing 4 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: good things. And really it's the trying that is the succeeding. 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,640 Speaker 1: That's the subtext of the show. I'm your host, Margaret Kiljoy, 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,120 Speaker 1: and every week I talk about cool people, hoohed cool stuff. 7 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: It's right there in the title of the show. And 8 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:32,560 Speaker 1: why am I vamping instead of introducing a guest, Well, 9 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: it's because there's no guest. It's just me. I like 10 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,280 Speaker 1: to do these episodes every now and then. It gives 11 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: myself a little bit of a break. I have to 12 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: do just as much prep work actually, so it's not 13 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:45,160 Speaker 1: really much of a break. It's just a different way 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: of working. And I crave variety, so I like working 15 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:53,240 Speaker 1: in different ways at different times. So that's why I 16 00:00:53,360 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: like to do episodes without a guest sometimes. And this 17 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: week we are going to be talking about suicide hotlines 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:09,839 Speaker 1: to quote the Mighty Trent Resnor, how are you doing tonight? 19 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 1: Having a good time? Ready to party, have fun? Yeah, 20 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:17,320 Speaker 1: well that was the last guys. Wrong fucking band we're 21 00:01:17,360 --> 00:01:22,120 Speaker 1: here to have a bad time because I don't know. 22 00:01:22,640 --> 00:01:24,880 Speaker 1: I mean, it's actually hopefully still going to be fun. 23 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:28,039 Speaker 1: But also I would enjoy going to Trent Resnor tonight 24 00:01:28,080 --> 00:01:31,080 Speaker 1: in Chanelle's playing a show, so clearly it's not actually 25 00:01:31,120 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: a bad time. Sometimes talking about super serious stuff or 26 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: dark stuff is what we like to do, and it's 27 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: important to be upfront right at the top. This is 28 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 1: not an episode about how to help yourself or others 29 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 1: deal with suicidal ideation or any of that stuff. It 30 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: is the history episode about people who've created structures to 31 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,600 Speaker 1: help people, and I don't know, I find that stuff 32 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: fascinating and I wanted to read about it this week. 33 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:04,480 Speaker 1: I'm actually doing all right. By the way, this is 34 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 1: a thing that a lot of my friends struggle with 35 00:02:07,440 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 1: and always have, and so I care about those friends, 36 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,320 Speaker 1: and I don't know, it was on my mind, so 37 00:02:13,400 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to read about it this week, And unfortunately 38 00:02:16,520 --> 00:02:20,640 Speaker 1: it's also on my mind because the political situation is 39 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: making it harder for hotlines for lifelines, and it's fucked 40 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 1: up and we should be you know, a lot of 41 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,960 Speaker 1: the subtext of a lot of the episodes this year 42 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:36,880 Speaker 1: has been like stuff that we take kind of for 43 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:39,400 Speaker 1: granted that the government is trying to take away from 44 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:41,799 Speaker 1: us now that it's fascist. So this is kind of 45 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 1: another episode in that vein crisis hotlines. You are going 46 00:02:47,639 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 1: to be shocked, absolutely shocked. You're not going to be 47 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:53,480 Speaker 1: shocked at all to know that crisis hotlines in the 48 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: United States come out of gay culture. Like a lot 49 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 1: of our stories, this one's arts in San Francisco. In fact, 50 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: it starts tied deeply into another one of our recent stories. 51 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: A few weeks or months back, What is Time these Days? 52 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 1: I did a series of episodes about the founding of 53 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 1: public radio and how it started in the US and 54 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 1: the Bay with PACIFICA Radio. I didn't actually carry that 55 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: story forward into time into NPR, but we're going to 56 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: do that a little bit this week because the first 57 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,480 Speaker 1: suicide hotline was started in the early nineteen sixties by 58 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: a gay British priest named Bernard Mays, who was also 59 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: the first chairman of National Public Radio. He he's such 60 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: a quintessential cool people who did cool stuff. I found 61 00:03:45,400 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: nothing negative about him in all of the shit that 62 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 1: I spent researching him, and to be fair, I didn't 63 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: read he did write an autobiography later in his life, 64 00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,520 Speaker 1: and I haven't read that. I've read like people talking 65 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: about it, and a lot of people talking about his life. 66 00:03:59,320 --> 00:04:01,920 Speaker 1: But yeah, I'm not finding the dirt on this guy. 67 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: He just actually seems really genuinely cool and interested in 68 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: a ton of different things in helping people. Now, of 69 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: course he did say British. Bernard Mays was British, but 70 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,120 Speaker 1: we can't hold that against him. No one controls how 71 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 1: they were born, which in this case was in nineteen 72 00:04:19,240 --> 00:04:23,720 Speaker 1: twenty nine in the aforementioned country of England. He went 73 00:04:23,720 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: to school at Cambridge studying ancient languages and history, and 74 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:31,159 Speaker 1: worked as a high school teacher teaching those same things. 75 00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: And this also means he was a teen young teen 76 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:39,280 Speaker 1: during World War Two, and I haven't read much about that, 77 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 1: but that obviously is going to impact your life. Then, 78 00:04:43,880 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 1: you know, he's working as a high school teacher and 79 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: he falls in love with this other boy who was like, yeah, 80 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:52,240 Speaker 1: but what if you joined the church? Though, Bernard went 81 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,239 Speaker 1: and became an Anglican priest. Bernard moved to the US, 82 00:04:56,360 --> 00:05:00,200 Speaker 1: and Bernard himself basically says he got seduced into the church, 83 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's really funny because later he's going 84 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,880 Speaker 1: to do a lot of the work to help the 85 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 1: Anglican Church understand LGBT stuff. He moves to the US 86 00:05:10,360 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 1: in nineteen fifty eight, first to Greenwich Village in Manhattan, 87 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: and then he gets himself transferred by the church to 88 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: San Francisco in nineteen sixty. He has been doing radio 89 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,160 Speaker 1: stuff as soon as he gets the US, maybe before then. 90 00:05:23,960 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: He's the BBC's West Coast correspondent, and he kept filing 91 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 1: story after story of people dying by suicide. In fact, 92 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,359 Speaker 1: at the time, it was the suicide capital of the 93 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 1: Western world. The suicide rate there at the time was 94 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 1: I think roughly into like thirty out of one hundred 95 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:49,120 Speaker 1: thousand people, which is like twice even what higher numbers 96 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: later are going to be. There's a place with a 97 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:53,719 Speaker 1: lot of risk of suicide, and I think that that 98 00:05:53,839 --> 00:05:57,960 Speaker 1: has to do a lot with homophobia and things like that. 99 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 1: So he gets there and he has an idea. It's 100 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,599 Speaker 1: also possible he went to San Francisco specifically to do 101 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,440 Speaker 1: this idea. I've read so many contradictory things because people 102 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: do a lot of myth making around this man, and 103 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 1: he participates in some of the myth making himself. As 104 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 1: far as I can tell either way, he's in San Francisco. 105 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:21,080 Speaker 1: He's like, I want to do something about this. I 106 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:24,120 Speaker 1: want to start to talk to people who are feeling suicidal. 107 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: He was like, I should use an alias and start 108 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:32,080 Speaker 1: a hotline. Now, the idea of using hot lines to 109 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: organize like these days, crisis lines are actually some of 110 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: the only like hotlines we really have left. But in 111 00:06:39,080 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 1: other parts of the world and in the recent memory 112 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,359 Speaker 1: of the past, you would do things like if you 113 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 1: wanted to say, for example, like have a radical events calendar, 114 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:51,599 Speaker 1: you get an answering machine and you'd put, hey, everyone, 115 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:53,440 Speaker 1: this week, these are the events, and you put that 116 00:06:53,520 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 1: on the answering machine and then you publicize the number. 117 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: Or you know, there have been all kinds of hot 118 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 1: lines throughout time. There was even while reading about radio 119 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 1: in Britain a couple of weeks ago, months ago, something 120 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: like that there was like a hotline that was a 121 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: call an anarchist hot line where you had questions about anarchism, 122 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: you could call this hotline. And also specifically, queer culture 123 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:20,960 Speaker 1: has used hotlines for a very long time because one 124 00:07:20,960 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 1: of the things is that like queerness when it's not 125 00:07:25,040 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 1: accepted is a very isolating experience, and so people have 126 00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: been using whatever technology is available to break that isolation. 127 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: And it's just so interesting because you know, those uses 128 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:41,760 Speaker 1: tend to predate crisis hotlines, but crisis hotlines are sort 129 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,320 Speaker 1: of what's left now that there's the Internet and all 130 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:48,160 Speaker 1: these other things. Anyway, he's like, I should use an 131 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,800 Speaker 1: alias start a hotline. So we starts shopping around for 132 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:54,040 Speaker 1: a room to rent to run the service out of. 133 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 1: And there's a couple stories about how this went down, 134 00:07:58,480 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 1: and both of them are sort of interesting. One of them, 135 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: the story that he tells himself, is that landlord after 136 00:08:05,120 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: landlord would turn him down when he told them his plans. 137 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:11,720 Speaker 1: But then when he told his plans to one manager 138 00:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,520 Speaker 1: at an apartment place, he was like, Hey, I want 139 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: to start talking to people who are considering suicide. And 140 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:22,200 Speaker 1: the manager said, you mean like this, and he put 141 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,800 Speaker 1: out his arms and he showed the slash marks on 142 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: his own wrists, and that manager rented Bernard the room 143 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:32,560 Speaker 1: for half price. Now, the organization that he goes on 144 00:08:32,559 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 1: to start San Francisco Suicide Prevention, they actually tell a 145 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,559 Speaker 1: different version of the story than he tells his organization 146 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 1: tells the story that the first office was in the 147 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 1: basement of an apartment building and the manager assumed they 148 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: were an escort service. And I've also read that it 149 00:08:48,280 --> 00:08:50,319 Speaker 1: started in nineteen sixty one, and I've read that it 150 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 1: started in nineteen sixty two, which is I think why 151 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,079 Speaker 1: most articles just say in the early nineteen sixties is 152 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: they probably ran across the same thing I did. Either way, 153 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 1: he got a room and he needed to advertise. But 154 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:09,280 Speaker 1: do you know who else needs to advertise? Advertisers? It's 155 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 1: literally their job description. And you know who needs to 156 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:19,360 Speaker 1: sell space to advertisers? Me, because that's the way that 157 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:23,800 Speaker 1: the economics of podcast work, besides setting up like crowdfunding, 158 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: and I don't want to do that and I'm uncle 159 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: zoned medium, and so what we do is advertise, except 160 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:32,920 Speaker 1: actually you can sign up for Cooler Zone Media and 161 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,800 Speaker 1: then you don't have to listen to ads. Instead, you 162 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:37,760 Speaker 1: just get to listen to me do long strange ad 163 00:09:37,760 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 1: transitions twice a day a day an episode, here's ads, 164 00:09:47,840 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 1: and we're back. So our man. He goes, and he 165 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:56,960 Speaker 1: sets up ads on buses that say, thinking of ending 166 00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:01,600 Speaker 1: it all, call Bruce with a phone number. He also 167 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 1: would go to bars in the Tenderloin, which is at 168 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,880 Speaker 1: the time it's the nightlife, crime and gay district of 169 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 1: the city, and starts passing out match books with the 170 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: hotline's number on them. I've also read that he just 171 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: made flyers. He goes around and he starts telling people 172 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:17,720 Speaker 1: about this, like, Hey, there's this number you can call 173 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:21,840 Speaker 1: the number. He got one caller on the very first 174 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: night the hotline was open. He got ten callers in 175 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: the first week. These days, operators have a lot of 176 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: training on what to say and what not to say, 177 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 1: about how to listen. Bernard learned on the job by 178 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:45,000 Speaker 1: listening by offering an anonymous person to talk to and look, 179 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,080 Speaker 1: I hate the British as much as the next white 180 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:51,280 Speaker 1: American girl who's pinned most of her personality on being 181 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 1: like a third generation Irish diaspora person. But my god, 182 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:00,680 Speaker 1: are British accents easy on the ears When you're down. 183 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 1: There might be nothing nicer than picking up the phone 184 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:06,080 Speaker 1: and talking to a nice gay priest with a British 185 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:10,960 Speaker 1: accent and a radio announcer's voice. And so it worked. 186 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:13,320 Speaker 1: I mean, he actually held to the end of his 187 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,400 Speaker 1: life that he did not. Because everything was anonymous. He 188 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 1: could not tell you that he saved a single life. 189 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 1: And that is not false humility, but it's humility. And 190 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:27,240 Speaker 1: because he absolutely saved a ton of people's lives. And 191 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 1: I'm sure people told him that he wasn't specifically anti suicide. 192 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,679 Speaker 1: He said later, quote, you want to kill yourself, kill yourself. 193 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,679 Speaker 1: You have every right to do so. But not in 194 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 1: like a flippant, like ahe go out and do this 195 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:45,559 Speaker 1: thing way, but rather like you know, believing in people's 196 00:11:45,600 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 1: agency kind of way. What he wanted to do and 197 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:51,720 Speaker 1: what he did is he wanted to help people who 198 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 1: wanted a way forward, a way to escape those thoughts, 199 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,960 Speaker 1: which is what people who call hotlines are doing. Right. 200 00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:02,360 Speaker 1: And over the first fifty years that that hotline was 201 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: in place in San Francisco, it's now been sixty years, 202 00:12:05,679 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: we're coming on probably sixty five years. Over the first 203 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:10,240 Speaker 1: fifty years that the hot line was in place, the 204 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 1: suicide rate in San Francisco dropped to half of what 205 00:12:13,679 --> 00:12:19,400 Speaker 1: it had been. And it you know, there's no proof 206 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,080 Speaker 1: of causality there, right, but there's no reason to doubt 207 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 1: that it was a significant part of that. I suspect 208 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: that also, like gay liberation movements and acceptance and things 209 00:12:30,679 --> 00:12:33,560 Speaker 1: like that are a very big part of that as well. 210 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: But those are all tied in together. We all just 211 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,360 Speaker 1: do the work. We can't always measure the work we do, 212 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: and sometimes getting lost and trying to measure the work 213 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,000 Speaker 1: we do is a distraction. I think sometimes it's best 214 00:12:46,040 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: to just do the work we do. Bernard stuck around 215 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: with the hot line for ten years and then he 216 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: left because founder syndrome is a real thing. Founders are 217 00:12:58,040 --> 00:13:03,079 Speaker 1: often bad at continuing projects indefinitely because once they scale up, 218 00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: they demand too much control and authority just instinctually, or 219 00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: as Bernard put it, quote, the people who start things 220 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: mustn't stay too long because if you do stay too long, 221 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,960 Speaker 1: you will kill it by your own oppression. I just 222 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: really like how blunt that is as someone who sometimes 223 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: struggles with that. Shout out to my collective mates, thanks 224 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,680 Speaker 1: for putting up with me at meetings. By the time 225 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: that Bernard left, San Francisco's Suicide Prevention was fielding two 226 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 1: hundred calls a day and they had ten people on 227 00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:38,640 Speaker 1: staff and one hundred volunteers. San Francisco's Suicide Prevention as 228 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:42,880 Speaker 1: a model was spreading across the country. He also then, 229 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:46,360 Speaker 1: like in the late sixties, founded the publicly funded radio 230 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:50,360 Speaker 1: station KQED, partly with influence from the BBC. It was 231 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:52,520 Speaker 1: like kind of a like, how do we bring BBC 232 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,920 Speaker 1: shows to the United States? The United States radio landscape 233 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: is entirely not entirely as pacifica, but it is by 234 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: and large not public radio, is largely commercial radio. And 235 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: so they're like, well, how do we do it, And like, oh, 236 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,080 Speaker 1: why don't we set up a publicly funded radio station, KQED, 237 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:13,319 Speaker 1: And soon KQED became the most listened to radio station 238 00:14:13,360 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: in the country. So then they went on to help 239 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:20,000 Speaker 1: found the National Public Radio Entre Bernard was part of 240 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy and he was the first chairman of NPR. 241 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: And I almost fell down this whole rabbit hole, and 242 00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:29,000 Speaker 1: I didn't put it in the script, but basically there 243 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: was this whole thing where it was actually very hard 244 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:32,840 Speaker 1: to start NPR because you have all these independent radio 245 00:14:32,840 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 1: stations and they very much like being independent, and so 246 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: actually trying to say like, no, we're all going to 247 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,400 Speaker 1: be part of this national thing with this national branding. 248 00:14:41,960 --> 00:14:44,080 Speaker 1: There was a lot of pushback and kind of understandably, 249 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:45,920 Speaker 1: we're actually, as we're going to as we talk about 250 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: suicide prevention hotlines, we're going to talk about the complicated 251 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 1: nature of creating some of these larger structures without being 252 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: against it at all. And I know what you're thinking, 253 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,680 Speaker 1: this is isn't an ad break. I know what you're thinking. 254 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: You're thinking, but Margaret, how this week are you going 255 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: to tie suicide prevention hotlines into JRR Tolkien. Well, I'm 256 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:18,720 Speaker 1: proud to tell you that Bernard Mays, one of the 257 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,680 Speaker 1: founders of NPR and the founder of suicide Hotlines, not 258 00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 1: only adapted Lord of the Rings to radio in nineteen 259 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,400 Speaker 1: seventy nine for NPR, but he also voiced Gandolf and 260 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: Tom Bombadil for that production. So if you want to 261 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: hear this man, you can go find the nineteen seventy 262 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: nine production of Lord of the Rings. He became a 263 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 1: college professor in the nineties. I think he started an 264 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: LGBT campus group while he was there, and he left 265 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: the church, the Anglican Church in nineteen ninety two. I've 266 00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:51,040 Speaker 1: seen it said that he became an atheist, but I 267 00:15:51,040 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: don't know if that's quite right, because he actually became 268 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,480 Speaker 1: something that I think is more interesting. He became a soupist. 269 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:03,000 Speaker 1: He became the only super He wrote a book called 270 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,520 Speaker 1: Escaping God's Closet, The Revelations of a Queer Priest and 271 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: his Friends. Quoted by NPR said quote, Bernard revealed why 272 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:19,040 Speaker 1: he ultimately renounced the priesthood and religion and described the interdependence, interaction, 273 00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:25,360 Speaker 1: and endless exchange within the universe as the soup. For Bernard, 274 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,400 Speaker 1: the inter relationship of all things necessitated a particular efic 275 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:35,120 Speaker 1: that he whimsically dubbed supism. For Bernard, supism was derived 276 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:40,040 Speaker 1: from the belief that love for others, egalitarian government, universal education, 277 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:42,760 Speaker 1: and respect for the planet and all that live upon 278 00:16:42,800 --> 00:16:46,880 Speaker 1: it are critical for the continued health, well being, and 279 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: survival of the human species. And I like that. I 280 00:16:51,480 --> 00:16:55,400 Speaker 1: think it's called Carsonization or something where like every evolution 281 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,000 Speaker 1: moves towards crab, if like all plants eventually evolve towards 282 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: tree like independently, and all of these things evolve towards 283 00:17:03,080 --> 00:17:06,439 Speaker 1: crab independently. Right. You can also see this in the 284 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:10,000 Speaker 1: suv world, where you know, all cars are slowly becoming 285 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:13,760 Speaker 1: smallish SUVs, which is why I call them crabs, and 286 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:15,600 Speaker 1: I'm trying to spread that we should all call the 287 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: little four door hatchback SUVs crabs. But I feel like 288 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 1: soupism is kind of the crab of cool people who 289 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:29,119 Speaker 1: did cool stuff religion. This sort of like not a 290 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,960 Speaker 1: denial of divinity, but a sort of pantheism because it 291 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: maybe I'm just thinking this because it just did the 292 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:39,040 Speaker 1: episode on secret societies and Masons and Illuminati and all 293 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:42,000 Speaker 1: that stuff, and they basically are teaching pantheism but coming 294 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 1: out of a Christian framework, And I feel like seekers 295 00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,720 Speaker 1: religious seekers usually come up with like, oh, everything is divine. 296 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:57,320 Speaker 1: That's the crab of religion. For good reason. Anyway, our 297 00:17:57,359 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: soupist returned to the rest of the year universe when 298 00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:03,920 Speaker 1: he died at eighty five years old in twenty fourteen 299 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:09,359 Speaker 1: from complications from Parkinson's disease. When he died, his close 300 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:14,240 Speaker 1: friends were with him reading him Shakespeare specifically, he died 301 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:17,520 Speaker 1: while they were reading him Sonnet one hundred and sixteen. 302 00:18:18,240 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: And this isn't from a play. It was a separate 303 00:18:20,320 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: poem that Shakespeare wrote, And I'm just going to read 304 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,480 Speaker 1: it to you because I'm a sucker and I like 305 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:28,560 Speaker 1: this guy. And this is what people were reading him 306 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:33,399 Speaker 1: as he returned to the soup. Let me not to 307 00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:38,200 Speaker 1: the marriage of true minds, admit impediments. Love is not love, 308 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: which alters when it alteration, finds or bends with the 309 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:46,240 Speaker 1: remover to remove. Oh No, it is an ever fixed 310 00:18:46,280 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: mark that looks on tempests and is never shaken. It 311 00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,280 Speaker 1: is the star to every wandering bark, whose worth so unknown. 312 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,720 Speaker 1: Although his height be taken, Love's not time's fool, though 313 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,720 Speaker 1: wrote lips and cheeks within his bending sickles compass come. 314 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,320 Speaker 1: Love alters not with his brief hours and weeks, but 315 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: bears it out even to the edge of doom. If 316 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: this be air upon me proved, I never write, nor 317 00:19:16,080 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: no man ever loved. Yeah, I just love alters not, 318 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,840 Speaker 1: you know, but bears out even to the edge of doom, 319 00:19:26,040 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: thick and fucking thin. So it's not surprising at all 320 00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 1: to me that the first suicide prevention hotline in the 321 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:35,439 Speaker 1: US was started by a gay man. Queers have always 322 00:19:35,440 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: been on top of caring for one another because we've 323 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,959 Speaker 1: always needed mutual aid and solidarity literally in order to survive. 324 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:45,280 Speaker 1: To tie in another recent series of episodes, when we 325 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:47,880 Speaker 1: talked about mutual aid in the Animal Kingdom. We talked 326 00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:50,879 Speaker 1: about how in the nineteenth century the geologist, biologist and 327 00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: anarchist communist Peter Kropok can prove that cooperation is at 328 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:58,240 Speaker 1: least as important of a factor in evolutionist competition, and 329 00:19:58,280 --> 00:20:01,880 Speaker 1: that specifically, the harsh the environment, the more animals work 330 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:07,280 Speaker 1: together to survive that environment. So yeah, queers invented this shit. 331 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:12,199 Speaker 1: It's also, though not surprising to me, that he was 332 00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 1: a priest. Before there was philosophy, there was theology, before 333 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: there was therapy, there was confession. The confession booth isn't historically, 334 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,200 Speaker 1: as far as I understand it, a place for punishment 335 00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,399 Speaker 1: or self flagellation per se, but rather one where you 336 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,080 Speaker 1: could talk to someone about how you've been feeling and 337 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 1: acting and how you wish you were feeling and acting instead. 338 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:39,800 Speaker 1: The confession system is not above critique, but that was 339 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 1: and is an important part of its social role. And 340 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: I don't know a ton about the Anglican Church to 341 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 1: see the aforementioned built my entire identity around opposition to 342 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: everything English, because why would I bother understanding nuance when 343 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: I can pick an identity that is vaguely related to 344 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,280 Speaker 1: me and carry it too far. I don't know a 345 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:04,000 Speaker 1: ton about the Anglicans, but I do know that they 346 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: do confession as well, and San Francisco's suicide prevention is 347 00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:15,439 Speaker 1: still around. By nineteen eighty nine, they started an HIV 348 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,080 Speaker 1: nightline so that HIV patients who couldn't sleep because the 349 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: pain had someone to talk to. And I actually want 350 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,280 Speaker 1: to focus on this part of it for a second, 351 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:35,600 Speaker 1: because the modern landscape of suicide prevention hotlines is fairly professionalized, medicalized, 352 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: and tied into the emergency response system and therefore police 353 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: and things like that. We're going to get a lot 354 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,480 Speaker 1: into that, I think, especially in part two of this episode, 355 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: but its roots are just I need to be listened to. 356 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: I'm in pain, and I want to talk to someone, 357 00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,520 Speaker 1: ideally someone who can understand, someone who's been in the 358 00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,560 Speaker 1: same situation or a comparable situation, or has been around 359 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: people in this situation before. But I just need to 360 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,920 Speaker 1: talk to someone. I can't sleep because I'm hurting, because 361 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 1: I'm dying. When I first read about HIV nightline for 362 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:17,240 Speaker 1: HIV patients wouldn't sleep because of pain, I was like, 363 00:22:17,640 --> 00:22:20,680 Speaker 1: that seems related, but not directly related. But the more 364 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: I think about it, the more just directly related those 365 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,159 Speaker 1: two things are I need someone to listen to me. 366 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: I feel like I'm dying and I'm in pain. And 367 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:40,359 Speaker 1: here's to everyone whoever staffed that line. Here's to everyone 368 00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: who's ever staffed any suicide hotline and just been there 369 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:52,120 Speaker 1: to listen to people, much like you can listen to dads. No, 370 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,080 Speaker 1: I feel terrible. I don't like that dad transition. I'm 371 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,960 Speaker 1: stuck with it. So are you. I'm sorry I have 372 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 1: failed you, and we're back as far as I can tell. 373 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,480 Speaker 1: The San Francisco hotline was the first. It's usually attributed 374 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,960 Speaker 1: as the first, but there was one that started roughly 375 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:17,880 Speaker 1: around the same time, probably shortly thereafter. Before the San 376 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,159 Speaker 1: Francisco Hotline, some psychologists in Los Angeles partnered with the 377 00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:25,640 Speaker 1: National Institute of Mental Health to start the Los Angeles 378 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: Suicide Prevention Center. And this is a very different background, right. 379 00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: This is a research and outreach center and it is 380 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: the first one of its kind in the country. They 381 00:23:37,640 --> 00:23:41,360 Speaker 1: also started a hotline in nineteen sixty two. This hotline, 382 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,399 Speaker 1: they're much more scientific about the whole thing. They collect 383 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:48,720 Speaker 1: anonymous data about the callers, and that has advantages and disadvantages. 384 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,679 Speaker 1: I'm actually not trying to come for that model versus 385 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:56,040 Speaker 1: a different model, right, I understand why we use data 386 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,880 Speaker 1: to try and make decisions as a society. This led 387 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 1: to the American Association of Suicideology in nineteen sixty eight, 388 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,920 Speaker 1: which researched all this stuff, and they started an a 389 00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,400 Speaker 1: credittion program for crisis centers by nineteen seventy six, which 390 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:17,160 Speaker 1: was necessary because the LA and San Francisco programs kind 391 00:24:17,160 --> 00:24:21,920 Speaker 1: of proved how important they were. Although actually we'll get 392 00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: into it. They didn't necessarily, like statistically prove that, but 393 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,080 Speaker 1: they were ideas that people were into. There was no 394 00:24:27,119 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: evidence against them either. It's still very hard to measure 395 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,920 Speaker 1: the success of these sorts of things. By nineteen seventy one, 396 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,440 Speaker 1: there's two hundred different centers around the US, but while 397 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: a lot of them ran hotlines, they tended not to 398 00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:45,840 Speaker 1: focus on these hotlines at all. The point of the 399 00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,240 Speaker 1: phone calls were to screen people for in person consultations, 400 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: because I think they're coming from more of the scientific model, 401 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 1: and or they thought that in person consultations were like 402 00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:57,920 Speaker 1: you know, oh, you have a medical problem, go see 403 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,359 Speaker 1: the doctor, versus like I just fucking need someone to 404 00:25:01,400 --> 00:25:07,080 Speaker 1: talk to. It's such a fascinating dichotomy. And like all dichotomies, 405 00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 1: it's false and there's like things to be advantages and 406 00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: disadvantages and oh, I don't want to get as dialectics, 407 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:15,879 Speaker 1: but sometimes two things that seem really opposite. If you 408 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:17,639 Speaker 1: take the things that are good about each other and 409 00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:19,359 Speaker 1: the ways that are in conflict, you can come up 410 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:23,119 Speaker 1: with something really beautiful synthesis, as it were for you 411 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: theory nerds out there. And then the government, for better 412 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,919 Speaker 1: or worse, started to get involved in this stuff. In 413 00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties, the Substance Abuse in Mental Health Services 414 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:40,400 Speaker 1: Administration SAMSUH SAM SAMPSA. I'm gonna call it SAMSAI even 415 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,720 Speaker 1: the it's an h in there. They started a new 416 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: center for Mental Health Services and started surveying what the 417 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 1: various clinics and crisis centers were up to to try 418 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:56,080 Speaker 1: and come up with a plan. And the federal government 419 00:25:56,080 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 1: starts getting more involved and things get messy. Don't get 420 00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 1: me wrong, I think every volunteer and staffer who works 421 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,119 Speaker 1: these lines is a hero, a bonafide cool person who 422 00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,880 Speaker 1: did cool stuff. But the more these services started getting 423 00:26:10,920 --> 00:26:14,360 Speaker 1: tied into governmental framework. The more they started working with 424 00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: other emergency services, including less savory emergency services aka the police. 425 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,159 Speaker 1: If you haven't, you should go back and listen to 426 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:28,000 Speaker 1: Robert Evans and prop doing a very long series called 427 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:31,200 Speaker 1: Behind the Police. It's a subsection of Behind the Bastards, 428 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,320 Speaker 1: and it traces the fact that the United States police 429 00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:38,840 Speaker 1: come from slave patrols in the US South and then 430 00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: like bad shit and I can't remember exactly the details 431 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,240 Speaker 1: of it, but like different bad shit in the North, 432 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: and the police have never gotten better. They are an 433 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,439 Speaker 1: instrument of white supremacy. People have attempted various ways of 434 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: making them not be that way. I don't think that 435 00:26:55,000 --> 00:27:02,440 Speaker 1: they're currently succeeding anyway. So even when they first started 436 00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: interacting with the state, these emergency services like mental health 437 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: as emergency service, it's then tied into other emergency services 438 00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: like the cops. To say nothing about how things have 439 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:17,159 Speaker 1: gone this year twenty twenty five with the whole fascism thing, well, 440 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:19,440 Speaker 1: actually we're going to say a decent bit about that part. 441 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:25,560 Speaker 1: But later, So in two thousand and one, Congress was like, sure, 442 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,200 Speaker 1: we'll give some money to a national hotline to stop suicide. 443 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:32,760 Speaker 1: The idea was and is a single number that people 444 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,119 Speaker 1: can call that will direct them to a more local, 445 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:38,320 Speaker 1: specialized organization for help. This is not a bad idea. 446 00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: And you know, one of these local organizations is San 447 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: Francisco's Suicide Prevention. They've been part of this framework for 448 00:27:46,359 --> 00:27:49,119 Speaker 1: a long time now. It took a couple of years, 449 00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 1: but by two thousand and five, the National Suicide Prevention 450 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,480 Speaker 1: Hotline opened and it got forty six thousand calls in 451 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:59,960 Speaker 1: the first year it was open. Soon enough, they start 452 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,919 Speaker 1: doing sub sections for people who are like specifically at 453 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: risk and or need kind of specific kinds of care 454 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:10,080 Speaker 1: and help. So they partnered with a Department of Veterans 455 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:15,159 Speaker 1: Affairs to add a Press one option for veterans specific counseling, 456 00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: and then a Press two option for Spanish language help. Eventually, 457 00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:24,960 Speaker 1: like decades later, they're going to add a Press three 458 00:28:25,000 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: option for LGBTQ plus specific folks who need help and 459 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:30,440 Speaker 1: want to be able to talk to someone who has 460 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,760 Speaker 1: dealt with a similar situation. I can't actually tell you 461 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,600 Speaker 1: about the efficacy of this hotline because suicide rates in 462 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: the US have been steadily on the rise since the 463 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 1: year two thousand, which is the furthest back. I found 464 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:49,360 Speaker 1: data on the CDC website. There's one exception one year 465 00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: in the past twenty five years where suicide rates fell 466 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:57,520 Speaker 1: markedly before returning to normal the next year, and that 467 00:28:57,600 --> 00:28:59,760 Speaker 1: was the year of Our Lord twenty twenty, which is 468 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,640 Speaker 1: not what I would have expected. There have been studies 469 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:06,240 Speaker 1: and studies of studies to determine the efficacy of these hotlines. 470 00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:10,160 Speaker 1: Literally the study of study I read has studied hundreds 471 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: of studies, but the data isn't conclusive yet. It does 472 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: seem to indicate that they help, especially in the short 473 00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,520 Speaker 1: term and the near long term. It's not that they 474 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 1: don't help long term, it's that it is incredibly hard 475 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 1: to effectively study right. People who call suicide hotlines are 476 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:34,080 Speaker 1: more likely than other people to die by suicide, much 477 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: as the same as if you have I don't know Parkinson's, 478 00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 1: you're more likely to call a Parkinson's Help hotline than 479 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:47,080 Speaker 1: someone who doesn't, And it doesn't mean that the hotline 480 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:53,200 Speaker 1: is why you die to Parkinson's anyway. That study of 481 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:57,120 Speaker 1: study does show, however, that counselors who've taken the training 482 00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: course Applied Suicide Intervention Skills train Assist did a better 483 00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:05,240 Speaker 1: job than counselors who did not. So there is evidence 484 00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 1: that some level of formalization has had positive impacts. I 485 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 1: want to be clear about that because I'm kind of 486 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,000 Speaker 1: coming out strong for the like you just want to 487 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 1: talk to a gay Anglican priest a model, but like, 488 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 1: well not just that, I'm just using him as an example. 489 00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: But there's a lot of different ways to try and 490 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,400 Speaker 1: do this. But suicide rates were going up throughout the 491 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,320 Speaker 1: twenty first century and have been, and by twenty eighteen 492 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:35,400 Speaker 1: the government was like, all right, we should probably make 493 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,760 Speaker 1: this a three digit number instead of a ten digit number. 494 00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,440 Speaker 1: And by twenty twenty two it happened. Nine eight eight 495 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,560 Speaker 1: is the national crisis number. And as soon as it 496 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: was a number you could actually remember, nine eight eight, 497 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: call volume went up nationally by forty percent. And these 498 00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: calls are routed to a national network of more than 499 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,520 Speaker 1: two hundred crisis centers, many of which started off as 500 00:30:56,600 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 1: independent hotlines. However, many of them are in life literally 501 00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: the same building as nine to one one operators and 502 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:07,280 Speaker 1: are very deeply tied into that system. And these independent 503 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: hotlines immediately get access to one point five billion dollars 504 00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:14,680 Speaker 1: set aside to fund the program. In the first two 505 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: years of nine eight eight, it fielded ten million calls 506 00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:21,360 Speaker 1: and texts and chats. And yeah, you've still got the 507 00:31:21,400 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: Press one option, which saw just for numbers, for the 508 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: fact that these are useful, these separate ones Press one 509 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,600 Speaker 1: option and twenty twenty four the Press one option for 510 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:35,440 Speaker 1: Veterans Help saw sixty five thousand calls, the Press two 511 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,800 Speaker 1: option for Spanish saw ten thousand calls, and that the 512 00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,600 Speaker 1: Press three option for LGBTQ plus folks saw thirty seven 513 00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:47,280 Speaker 1: thousand calls. But it's tied into that first responder network. 514 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 1: Ostensibly part of nine eight eight's goal and like why 515 00:31:51,120 --> 00:31:54,320 Speaker 1: it was set up is to move emergency mental health 516 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: away from the police focused nine to one to one 517 00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: so that fewer cops need to be involved in christ 518 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: this intervention. But it's part of the government, so it's 519 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 1: not exactly coming out acab. In exchange for access to 520 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,959 Speaker 1: federal funding, these local crisis centers have to agree to 521 00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 1: what you could call non consensual intervention. So this thing 522 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,920 Speaker 1: that was supposed to mean the police wouldn't get involved 523 00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:25,400 Speaker 1: in your crisis gets the police involved, not just ambulances, 524 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:29,760 Speaker 1: although even that's contentious and it brands itself that is 525 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: private and confidential if you call it, but it's not. 526 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:37,000 Speaker 1: It talks to the police. I'm going to get into 527 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 1: alternatives in a little bit, but the trans Lifeline, which 528 00:32:40,480 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 1: is not part of the nine eight eight network, spent 529 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: years trying to get transparency out of the nine eight 530 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:48,239 Speaker 1: eight network about how often the police were called and 531 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 1: how often non consensual intervention was done. Most of the 532 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 1: higher up organizations involved in nine eight eight, it's very 533 00:32:54,880 --> 00:33:01,560 Speaker 1: complicated SAMSA like basically pay is a grant to another organization, 534 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:03,960 Speaker 1: and then all of these smaller organizations like take part 535 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:08,080 Speaker 1: of it whatever. Most of the higher up organizations involved 536 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: in nine eight eight blocked the requests for data from 537 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,440 Speaker 1: the people studying it at every turn, including people like 538 00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: putting in Freedom of Information Act requests. Some of the 539 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,959 Speaker 1: local organizations involved in nine eight eight, like the Trevor 540 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:26,600 Speaker 1: Project which supports especially LGBTUTH, were open and forthcoming about 541 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:30,120 Speaker 1: their data and as for what they found the trans 542 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: Lifeline researchers. I hate breaking this episode here, but this 543 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:35,760 Speaker 1: is where I'm gonna break it because it's halfway through 544 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: my script. As for what they found and what the 545 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,080 Speaker 1: trans Lifeline is all about you have to wait until 546 00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:44,600 Speaker 1: Wednesday unless you can't wait. I feel this is just 547 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,880 Speaker 1: not an OK place to break it. Translfeline does not 548 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,560 Speaker 1: do non consensual intervention, and their number in the US 549 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: is eight seven seven five six five eight eight six zero. 550 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,360 Speaker 1: In Canada it's eight seven seven three three zero six 551 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,360 Speaker 1: three sixty six and their hours are every day from 552 00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:07,720 Speaker 1: one pm to nine pm Eastern. But again, this is 553 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: not an episode about how to get help. This is 554 00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:12,000 Speaker 1: not an episode about how to help your friends. This 555 00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:14,879 Speaker 1: is an episode about some of the cool people who 556 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,000 Speaker 1: try to help people, whether they do it in the 557 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,960 Speaker 1: formal structure like nine to eight eight, or whether they 558 00:34:20,040 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: do it in a actually still formal structure, just not 559 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:28,320 Speaker 1: tied into you know, governmental stuff like the trans Lifeline. Anyway, 560 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: I hope you all are doing as well as you can, 561 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:34,919 Speaker 1: and I hope y'all are taking care of each other 562 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 1: and telling your friends that you love each other and 563 00:34:38,960 --> 00:34:44,640 Speaker 1: doing all those things because you should. Because it's better 564 00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,560 Speaker 1: to just be earnest and be about what you're about 565 00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 1: and care for each other. Right see in a couple days, 566 00:34:54,680 --> 00:34:57,200 Speaker 1: Cool People Who Did Cool Stop is a production of 567 00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media. The more podcasts Normal Zone Media. Visit 568 00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:04,000 Speaker 1: our website folezonemedia dot com, or check us out on 569 00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. 570 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:12,279 Speaker 1: M