1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to another episode of It Could Happen 2 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: Here with me Andrew of the YouTube channel Andrewism. Today, 3 00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,159 Speaker 1: I'm joined by Mia, and today we're going to be 4 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:20,080 Speaker 1: discussing another leading figure in the black radical tradition. If 5 00:00:20,079 --> 00:00:23,160 Speaker 1: you've heard the episodes on Quasiba Lagoon, you know exactly 6 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:26,000 Speaker 1: what's up today. I've got the first part in a 7 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:30,880 Speaker 1: two parter about Lorenzo Combo Irvin and his vision for revolution. 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 1: Irvin's life has been one of resistance, resilience and radicalism. 9 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: These contributions the anarchist movement, especially his work on black anarchism, 10 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:47,279 Speaker 1: even to this day with his ongoing podcast, continues to 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: inspire activists around the world, myself included. So Mia, what 12 00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: are your what has your experience been with Lorenzo Combo 13 00:00:58,080 --> 00:00:59,080 Speaker 1: Irvin and his work? 14 00:00:59,600 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I've read Anarchists in the Black Revolution, which 15 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: I really enjoy. I've listened to not all of, but 16 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: like a pretty good amount of the Black Autonomy podcasts 17 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,720 Speaker 2: that he runs, which is great, and so yeah, I'm 18 00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:14,760 Speaker 2: excited to talk about him. 19 00:01:15,360 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: Awesome. Yeah, he really is a fantastic and necessary figure 20 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:26,200 Speaker 1: in this you know, broader movement, especially now for those 21 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: who don't know. The Ranco Combo even was one of 22 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 1: the earliest founders of the black anarchist movement, which was 23 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: a distinct tradition born out of the history of black 24 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:40,280 Speaker 1: radical politics in nineteen seventies. Like, black anarchism is not 25 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: just oh, we are throwing on an adjective onto anarchism. 26 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: There's a history behind it, and there's a distinct tradition 27 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:54,279 Speaker 1: that accompanies it. There were anarchists historically who were black 28 00:01:54,920 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 1: who were not part of this black anarchist tradition, and well, 29 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:06,040 Speaker 1: of course black anarchists who weren't part of those earlier movements. 30 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:10,720 Speaker 1: I think one of the most notable sort of go 31 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: to examples is Lucy Parsons was a very important anarchist 32 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 1: figure in the sort of the peak of the movement, 33 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:25,920 Speaker 1: at least in the US in the twentieth century. But 34 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 1: although she was Black, her contributions don't necessarily contribute to 35 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: that sort of black anarchist lineage. So let's get into 36 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,760 Speaker 1: Irvin right born in nineteen forty seven. By the time 37 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 1: he was twelve, loranzukobert Uvin had joined the NAACP youth 38 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:50,120 Speaker 1: group and participated in sit in protests that helped end 39 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:55,239 Speaker 1: racial segregation in Chattanooga, Tennessee. He was later drafted during 40 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 1: the Vietnam War and served in the army for two years, 41 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: where he eventually became an anti war activists, and in 42 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty seven, when he was twenty years old, after 43 00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,840 Speaker 1: his involvement with the Student Non Violent Coordinating Committee, Lorentzok 44 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,760 Speaker 1: Irvin joined the Black Panther Party as a rank and 45 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,640 Speaker 1: file member. Two years later, he hijacked a plane and 46 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 1: fled to Cuba. While he was on the run for 47 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: attempting to kill a Ku Klux Klan member, but instead 48 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:27,200 Speaker 1: of receiving support as some black radicals had received when 49 00:03:27,880 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 1: fleeing to Cuba, cute authorities had jailed him, deported him, 50 00:03:32,840 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: deported him to Czechoslovakia, and eventually he escaped from Czechoslovakia 51 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:43,000 Speaker 1: to East Germany before eventually being caught, tortured, and brought 52 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: back to the United States and then after being drugged 53 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,880 Speaker 1: during his trial, he was handled two life sentences by 54 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:54,960 Speaker 1: an all white jury in a redneck town tough brick 55 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:01,240 Speaker 1: as you can imagine, Irvin had very quickly become disillusioned 56 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:04,120 Speaker 1: with the dictatorship he had experienced in Cuba and the 57 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 1: socialist countries he visited, and during his time in prison, 58 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:12,000 Speaker 1: he reflected on his life and found an alternative method 59 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:15,120 Speaker 1: for black revolution, distinct from the form he found the 60 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,359 Speaker 1: Panther Party. Now, even wasn't the first pous Son to 61 00:04:18,440 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: criticize the Black Panther Party's style of organization. One of 62 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:25,479 Speaker 1: the splits between the East Coast and West Coast Panthers 63 00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: was on what form of organization they would take. I 64 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,919 Speaker 1: discussed that a bit in the KUWASI Battagoon episodes. And 65 00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: then of course there were other figures who came out 66 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: to the Black Panther Party with their own criticisms, including 67 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:45,120 Speaker 1: if I remember correctly, Asata Shakur and also donal Cox. 68 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 1: While in prison, Uvin had begun receiving anarchist literature, and 69 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:55,240 Speaker 1: he also signed to pick up what another Black anarchist 70 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: who he was briefly imprisoned with at the time, Martin Sostra, 71 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,000 Speaker 1: was put in down. Martin so Ostra is what I 72 00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:06,000 Speaker 1: believe one of the first major black anarchist figures in 73 00:05:06,080 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 1: that sort of nineteen sixties nineteen seventies period, and so 74 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:14,240 Speaker 1: him being in prison with Sostra at the same time 75 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 1: sort of really helped even to understand exactly what anarchism 76 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:21,000 Speaker 1: meant and how it would applied to a specifically black 77 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:26,880 Speaker 1: experience in black context. Irvin was also inspired by Peter Kropotkin, 78 00:05:27,240 --> 00:05:33,240 Speaker 1: Everyone's favorite Russian former prince, and ultimately Irven adopted the 79 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,480 Speaker 1: ideology of anarchist. His case was soon taken up by 80 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 1: the Anarchist Black Cross and the Helper Prisoner Opposed Torture 81 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:45,200 Speaker 1: Organizing Committee, which led to an international campaign the petition 82 00:05:45,320 --> 00:05:50,040 Speaker 1: for his release. Evan's writings on Anarchism the Black Revolution, 83 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: which was written in prison, gained immense popularity, and so 84 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: he was released in nineteen eighty three after serving nearly 85 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:03,479 Speaker 1: fifteen years. In his book, he emphasized that anarchism is 86 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,839 Speaker 1: the most democratic, effective and radical way to obtain freedom 87 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 1: for the black community, but the black people must be 88 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 1: free to design their movements without the approval of North 89 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 1: American anarchists. Do you believe that black people and other 90 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: people of color would be the backbone of the American 91 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:25,280 Speaker 1: anarchist movement of the future. The first edition of Anarchism 92 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: the Black Revolution was published quite a while ago. It's 93 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:30,719 Speaker 1: still the edition that is available on the Anarchist Library 94 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:34,920 Speaker 1: you can check out, but it is I would consider 95 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:36,919 Speaker 1: it to be a sort of a rough early edition. 96 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: There are certainly some typos and editorial mistakes and stuff 97 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: that were addressed in the most recent edition that was 98 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: published and I believe twenty twenty one and edited with 99 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:58,400 Speaker 1: some help from William C. Anderson, who also is another 100 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,599 Speaker 1: leading figure in the modern Black can movement, having written 101 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 1: works like Nation or No Map. Irvin took and still 102 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: takes a principal stance against capitalism, white supremacy, imperialism, colonial oppression, patriarchy, queerphobia, 103 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 1: and the state, recognizing that government is one of the 104 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: worst forms of modern oppression. His emphasis on intersectionality has 105 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: played a crucial role in the shift away from class 106 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,960 Speaker 1: exclusive analysis in the American anarchist movement, and today he 107 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:35,040 Speaker 1: remains active, as I said, recording a podcast called Black 108 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: Autonomy with his wife and fellow former panther Jonina. So 109 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,400 Speaker 1: today he drawn from Evan's book Anarchism on the Black 110 00:07:43,440 --> 00:07:48,400 Speaker 1: Revolution to delve into his picture of revolution in North 111 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: America and beyond. I think one of the strongest strategies 112 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: for the development of the Black Revolution would be a 113 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:02,160 Speaker 1: black labor Federation, as If discussers in his book, black 114 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 1: labor has been a critical economic fact in America since 115 00:08:05,520 --> 00:08:07,680 Speaker 1: the country's inception, and it was through the toil of 116 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: black labor, beginning with slave labor in the Old South 117 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: and extending to share cropping, farm labor and migration to 118 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,880 Speaker 1: the North for factory jobs, that the foundations of the 119 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: American nation were built. However, as is obvious, black workers 120 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 1: have been routinely excluded from that share of the wealth 121 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: of the American nation and routinely excluded from the trade 122 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:35,760 Speaker 1: unions that struggled to regain some of that wealth, like, 123 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,560 Speaker 1: for example, the American Federation of Labor, the National Colored 124 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:42,680 Speaker 1: Labor Union, the National Colored Farmers Alliance, and the Brotherhood 125 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 1: of Sleeping car Porters, as well as the League of 126 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: Black Revolutionary Workers, and other unions and associations of black 127 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:53,040 Speaker 1: workers were then formed to represent these interests were being 128 00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: left out and not at all brought to the table. 129 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:02,800 Speaker 1: Black workers were very much instrumental in the Congress of 130 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 1: Industrial Organizations, campaign of strikes and sit downs and other 131 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: protests to organize unskilled industrial workers, but they didn't get 132 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: to enjoy the benefits of their pivotal rule. Most of 133 00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 1: the Black population is working class, and black industrial and 134 00:09:21,040 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 1: clerical workers still holds significant potential power and the struggle 135 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,960 Speaker 1: for black liberation. A lot of these workers have already 136 00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: been organized and to defend their righted work and activate 137 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,959 Speaker 1: for their interests, even if unian leadership is conservative, even 138 00:09:35,960 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: if they weren't challenge management, even if they're not even unionized, 139 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 1: we see as well in modern times a lot of 140 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: black figures stepping up to organize these unions. The first 141 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: union to be organized in Amazon was spearheaded by a 142 00:09:51,520 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: black worker, Chris Smaws, and workers black workers across history 143 00:09:58,480 --> 00:10:02,680 Speaker 1: have already been creating the union caucuses and creating independently 144 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:06,839 Speaker 1: of unions where necessary to push for their specific interests, because, 145 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,520 Speaker 1: I mean, the unity of black workers and the rest 146 00:10:10,559 --> 00:10:15,120 Speaker 1: of the working class is essential to combat and overthrow capitalism. 147 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,880 Speaker 1: But there needs to be a recognition within that unity 148 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,400 Speaker 1: of distinctly black interests and a distinctly black history, which 149 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 1: is why black caucuses within unions are able to take 150 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:29,920 Speaker 1: up demand to the struggles that unions have turned the 151 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 1: blind eye to, such as discriminatory hiring, firing and promotion practices, 152 00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: and you know, lack of equal treatment. I think these 153 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:44,439 Speaker 1: caucuses could even go further, as Even also argues to 154 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: democratize their unions, to eliminate some of these discriminatory practices 155 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 1: and to really push for the radical fighting spirit that 156 00:10:54,920 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: has been lost in some of these sort of reformist 157 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: union structures. The Black caucuses and so the workers more 158 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:05,400 Speaker 1: generally should be stepping up to demand democratic control the union, 159 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: to demand equal treatments, demand of firmative action, demand full employment, 160 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:13,600 Speaker 1: demand shorter work weeks, to demand the right to strike, 161 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: the demand to social security and an employment compensation, demand 162 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:24,479 Speaker 1: for liverable minimum wages. Of course, all of these accomplishments 163 00:11:24,559 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: or demands already sort of short term benefits that would 164 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:37,959 Speaker 1: still retain a copitless structure, but they're necessarily nonetheless, especially 165 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,840 Speaker 1: when unionizations are an all the time low. Historically, one 166 00:11:42,880 --> 00:11:45,120 Speaker 1: of the things that Even also advocates for, which I'll 167 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:49,120 Speaker 1: get into more in the future, is this idea of 168 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: unions advocating for companies two put aside funds specifically for 169 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 1: programs to rebuild in a city cammunities and provide work 170 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:06,280 Speaker 1: for black workers. And your stalks about worker self management 171 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:11,720 Speaker 1: of industry by factory committees and workers councils and elections 172 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:17,400 Speaker 1: by workers themselves. But the main idea that he's pushing for, 173 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:20,760 Speaker 1: at least in terms of the black working class and 174 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:24,440 Speaker 1: black labor, is, as I mentioned, a black labor federation, 175 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 1: both in a national level and on an international level. 176 00:12:29,520 --> 00:12:34,080 Speaker 1: A national workers association would serve as both a revolutionary 177 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,720 Speaker 1: union movement for workplace organizing and a mass social movement 178 00:12:37,720 --> 00:12:41,160 Speaker 1: for community organizing, combining tactics from both the labor and 179 00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: the black liberation movements to multiply their numbers and build 180 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 1: their strength and turn the unions into these militant class 181 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: struggle instruments. An example that we can see in history 182 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: during the late nineteen sixties was the League of Revolutionary 183 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: Black Workers, which is organizing black auto workers out of 184 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 1: the out of the Dodge Revolutionary Movement. Sorry to me, 185 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 1: let me rephrase that. One example of that type of 186 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:19,200 Speaker 1: organization could be found in the League of Revolutionary Black Workers, 187 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: which organized black auto workers during the late nineteen sixties. 188 00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,439 Speaker 1: The League had grown out of a major affiliate of 189 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 1: it out of a major affiliate, the Dodge Revolutionary Movement, 190 00:13:30,559 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: and it was a black labor federation that existed as 191 00:13:33,240 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 1: an organized alternative to the United Auto Workers, which had 192 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:39,800 Speaker 1: been excluding black workers. The League was also a very 193 00:13:39,840 --> 00:13:43,760 Speaker 1: major force on the streets, as it was, in addition 194 00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:47,400 Speaker 1: to organizing its workplaces organized in college campuses and black 195 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: inner city areas. But its potential was stifled, unfortunately, by 196 00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: political faction fights among leadership. There was a division between 197 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:04,600 Speaker 1: those who wanted to take a more Marxist Leninist approach 198 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,080 Speaker 1: to the organization compared to those who want to take 199 00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,240 Speaker 1: more democratic approach the organization. There was a lack of 200 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: a solid enough organized base in the factories, there was 201 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 1: significant company and United Auto Workers, and state repression. Of course, 202 00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:25,160 Speaker 1: organized racism, a lack of cooperation among white workers, and 203 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:27,960 Speaker 1: other reasons that eventually led to the League split it 204 00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:31,960 Speaker 1: into mutually hostile factions that would die after less than 205 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 1: five years of existence. Classic organized and history story. I 206 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: don't think that we should look at these failures and 207 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: use them as an opportunity to give up. I think 208 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: we look at these failures and we use them as 209 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,480 Speaker 1: learning opportunities, use them as opportunities to recognize, Oh, we 210 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: can do some then like this, but not exactly like this. 211 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, and make sure that Bob Avankian is never involved 212 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:07,760 Speaker 2: in any point in the process. 213 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,360 Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, I mean, we still need these sorts of 214 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: labor organizations and associations and unions. We still need black 215 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,560 Speaker 1: workers pay aheading these sort of organizations to organize other 216 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 1: black workers in their communities to support the strike sim 217 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:30,040 Speaker 1: workplace organized, it will be necessary for significant changes. And 218 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: of course we need the groups to be established to 219 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 1: avoid the pitfalls and ideological scruples of Marxism le and 220 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: this up. But you're just the sort of American approach 221 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,120 Speaker 1: because in case those of you who don't know, I'm 222 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 1: not living in America, I'm not an American, which is 223 00:15:47,880 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: why even also addresses and advocates for an international Black 224 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 1: Labor Federation to wield the collective power of black workers 225 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 1: globally that have been universally oppressed and exploited around the world. 226 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 1: As a racial group, Black workers have been oppressed as 227 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: workers and as people, and this dual form for pressure 228 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,840 Speaker 1: is really what emphasizes that need to organize for old 229 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 1: rights and our own liberation. In African and Caribbean countries, 230 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:30,560 Speaker 1: including trant Tobigle, there are labor federations and labor unions, 231 00:16:31,080 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: but a lot of them are reformists. Of a lot of 232 00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: them are government control and there's a lack of militancy. 233 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: There's a lot of collaboration with the government and with 234 00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: companies they're supposed to be organizing against. So it's necessary 235 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,920 Speaker 1: to have an organization with an internationalist scope that is 236 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: pushing for solidarity, that is pushing for radical change. And 237 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: so I think that's the that's the real strength of 238 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: an international Black Labor Federation. You know, that idea of 239 00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:01,880 Speaker 1: increased solidarity across several countries, the idea of strengthening our 240 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: collective bargaining power and ability to organize back to work 241 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:07,679 Speaker 1: and conditions. Of course, we'd also have the benefit of 242 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,200 Speaker 1: shared resources and the benefit of greater visibility to these 243 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: issues that we are facing in the workplace and in society. 244 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: And then of course there will also be the ability 245 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 1: to exert using that visibility and resources and solidarity to 246 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:28,920 Speaker 1: exert greater political influence. However, you know, an international Black federation, 247 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:32,879 Speaker 1: we still struggle with political barriers, particularly in countries that 248 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: are actively hostile to that sort of organizing. Of course, 249 00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: the power would be will do everything in their power 250 00:17:39,359 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 1: to keep such a struggle from being able to attain 251 00:17:42,440 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 1: and maintain any kind of momentum or power. The constraints 252 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:54,159 Speaker 1: of time and energy and resources and engagement, we also 253 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,760 Speaker 1: prevent such a federation from gaining crown. But I still 254 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:02,399 Speaker 1: think think of all those issues that we should keep 255 00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:06,160 Speaker 1: in mind. If well developed, I think that national, regional, 256 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: and international caucuses can do a lot to implement significant changes. 257 00:18:13,359 --> 00:18:18,679 Speaker 1: In fact, one strategy that even advocates for is something 258 00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:23,920 Speaker 1: that I believe an international Black Labor Federation or any 259 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:28,040 Speaker 1: kind of international labor federation will be necessary to help 260 00:18:28,119 --> 00:18:34,240 Speaker 1: to organize, and that would be a general strike. Because 261 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,600 Speaker 1: the vast majority the Black community consists of working class 262 00:18:36,600 --> 00:18:39,560 Speaker 1: people in the US, because many of them are engaged 263 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:45,360 Speaker 1: in manufacturing and medical service and communications and food production 264 00:18:45,520 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: and retail, a lot of blue collar work that really 265 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:56,000 Speaker 1: makes the country go around, really makes them an essential 266 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: component to the capitalist economy and of the American economy. 267 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:06,320 Speaker 1: I think it positions them as really really key players 268 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: in any sort of protest campaign that would involve first 269 00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: racism and class oppression. And I could go even further 270 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: into beyond just stepping up and striking for demands in 271 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: the workplace, control over the workplace. You could also go 272 00:19:26,119 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: step further accomplish it, and accomplish in even more revolutionary goals. 273 00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: And I would of course involve using tactics like industrial 274 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 1: sabotage and factory occupations and sit ins and slowdowns and 275 00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:42,800 Speaker 1: wildcat strikes and other work stoppages that would help to 276 00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:50,920 Speaker 1: reassuit our collective power. Of course, as I'm always really 277 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,280 Speaker 1: careful to emphasize when I bring up general strikes, they're 278 00:19:54,320 --> 00:19:59,239 Speaker 1: not easy to organize. A friend of mine Alky, he 279 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:02,639 Speaker 1: has a vide you want, his YouTube channel about general 280 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: strikes and how they work, and some of the history 281 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,280 Speaker 1: is some past general strikes. So that's I think that's 282 00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: required reading quote quote reading to definitely check out. But yeah, 283 00:20:13,080 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: general strikes are not easy to organize. They're not something 284 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,439 Speaker 1: that you could just call for on Reddit or Twitter 285 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:22,760 Speaker 1: or Facebook or whatever. You know. It takes serious community 286 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:27,119 Speaker 1: and workplace mobilization. It takes significant planning, It takes strike 287 00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: committees and support committees because and even defense committees when 288 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:37,480 Speaker 1: employ employers maybe trying to retaliate against strike co workers 289 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: or blacklist or fire workers. 290 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I would also say, like something that I think 291 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:49,000 Speaker 2: people okay, there's not a delegate way to say this like, look, 292 00:20:49,160 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 2: if you're going to be engaged in like a long term, 293 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,160 Speaker 2: serious general strike, you're gonna have to do things like 294 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 2: you're gonna have to start seizing stuff, Like you're going 295 00:20:58,880 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 2: to have to start committing left in order to make 296 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,240 Speaker 2: sure that people can. 297 00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:04,800 Speaker 1: Like eat, Yeah exactly, Like you're. 298 00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 2: Can have to start appropriating stuff. 299 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. It's not just standing around in a picket line. 300 00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:16,360 Speaker 1: You know, like a general strike is an extra extremely 301 00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: involved and invested you don't get usually you don't get 302 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 1: two chances to do a general strike, you know, like 303 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:35,400 Speaker 1: you have that chance, and after that they're usually if 304 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: you feel you usually introduce legislation or put things in 305 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,840 Speaker 1: place to ensure that something like that never happens again. 306 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, or you get like there was a thing that 307 00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,760 Speaker 2: used to happen back when, you know, back in like 308 00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:49,600 Speaker 2: the early nineteen hundred when these happens, a lot was 309 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:54,080 Speaker 2: you would get these general strikes, but you know they 310 00:21:54,119 --> 00:21:57,440 Speaker 2: would kind of they would be like like two days long. 311 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 2: And there's this great melotest to quote from nineteen nineteen 312 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 2: twenty four, I think, where he's talking about how he's 313 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 2: talking about the factory occupations that started in Italy in 314 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:15,960 Speaker 2: the like during the two Red Years. And here's this 315 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,719 Speaker 2: line that goes general strikes A protests no longer upset anyone, 316 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 2: neither those who take part in them nor those against 317 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 2: whom they are directed. If only the police had the 318 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 2: intelligence to avoid being provocative, they would pass off as 319 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 2: a public as any public holiday. One must seek something else. 320 00:22:32,280 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 2: We put forward an idea the takeover of. 321 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:39,159 Speaker 1: Factories exactly exactly, like I have to step beyond or 322 00:22:39,359 --> 00:22:43,000 Speaker 1: is this legal? It's just legal and look into oh 323 00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 1: what can we make possible? You know, yeah, I mean 324 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: I don't mean to be flippant, you know, like it's difficult. 325 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:55,800 Speaker 1: It takes so much organization of a lot and coordination 326 00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:58,840 Speaker 1: of a large group of people. There's always put the 327 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: SEO scabs. You know. It could have significant consequences for 328 00:23:03,720 --> 00:23:06,439 Speaker 1: workers who depend on their wages to survive and to 329 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: support their families. It can have a lot of ripple effects, 330 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:16,639 Speaker 1: and it could also involve, you know, workers end up 331 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,040 Speaker 1: going to jail or just losing their jobs. But still 332 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:26,680 Speaker 1: it's it's a powerful tool that if we can recognize, 333 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:30,040 Speaker 1: if we could start working towards if when people were 334 00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:33,160 Speaker 1: calling for strikes back in twenty sixteen and twenty seventeen 335 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,119 Speaker 1: and twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen and twenty twenty one and 336 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 1: twenty two. If all those years so we spent calling 337 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: for general strikes, actually more effort was being put in 338 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: to actually put the foundation in place for general strike 339 00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:50,120 Speaker 1: to occur, then twenty twenty three we would be prepared 340 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,400 Speaker 1: to support a general strike in a long term way, 341 00:23:55,280 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: in a way that would actually signify you know, revolutionary 342 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:06,240 Speaker 1: change in our lifetimes. I mean, they'll be discertened, dear listener. 343 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:12,240 Speaker 1: They're still potential for such a thing to occur. It 344 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:18,080 Speaker 1: just takes preparation and organization. Speaking of things that take preparation, organization, 345 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,000 Speaker 1: and the one of Iven's tactics is a mass tax boycott. 346 00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:24,600 Speaker 1: You know, people should refuse to pay any form of 347 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 1: taxes to the government, be it federal, income, estate, or 348 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,440 Speaker 1: state taxes while they continue to be exploited. Because, as 349 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: he would argue, you know, wealthy and their corporations paying 350 00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,919 Speaker 1: next to no taxes, while the poor and workers with 351 00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,560 Speaker 1: the brunt of taxation and do not receive any benefits 352 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: in return. You know, all these taxes on income and 353 00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,120 Speaker 1: goods and services, but communities are still suffering, and that 354 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: money ends up going to fund the Pentagon and defense 355 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: contractors and consultants who get to you know, loot the 356 00:24:54,800 --> 00:25:00,400 Speaker 1: government for their own game. So part of a black 357 00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 1: radical movement, the Black revolutions, if an arguseful, is a 358 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 1: mass tax resistance movement to boycott taxes, similar to the 359 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: peace movements, war tax resistance, taking people all the taxes 360 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,880 Speaker 1: that would have gone into personal property, all the taxes 361 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:21,600 Speaker 1: that have been reaped from personal property and income tax 362 00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: and stocks and bonds, and funneling that towards community development, 363 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:32,119 Speaker 1: find that towards coming to projects and organizations. As with 364 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,959 Speaker 1: any evolution reaction, significant legal consequences would be involved in that. 365 00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 1: Of course, you know, I think such a tactic needs 366 00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: some serious mass support and back end behind it to succeed. 367 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,560 Speaker 1: And even then, I don't believe it should be the 368 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,000 Speaker 1: backbone of any movement. I think it's more so like 369 00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,040 Speaker 1: an accessory in the event of a major rupture, a 370 00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,880 Speaker 1: single tool in a broader arsenal. Like I don't think 371 00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:58,960 Speaker 1: the entire movement should be built off of tax avoidance. 372 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:01,440 Speaker 1: Is going to get a bunch of people throw into person, 373 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:03,760 Speaker 1: they ask a lot more to it than that, I 374 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,960 Speaker 1: look at the sort of cost of benefit analysis, like, yeah, 375 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: it'll get a lot of federal attention, but if it's 376 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: not properly implemented, I don't really see any immediate benefits 377 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: for the long term goals of the movement. I mean, 378 00:26:17,080 --> 00:26:19,679 Speaker 1: I could be wrong, but it's not a tactic that 379 00:26:19,720 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 1: I would personally fearful unless such a struggle is already 380 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,919 Speaker 1: in existence and in its later stages. Another type of 381 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 1: boycott that's even references is, of course the regular conventional, 382 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,600 Speaker 1: unconventional sort of boycotts used during the Civil rights movement. 383 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,800 Speaker 1: A lot of black consumers with boycott particular movechents public 384 00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,639 Speaker 1: services refusing to treat with mouchents who would allow for 385 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:50,240 Speaker 1: reach of discrimination and use that loss of revenue to 386 00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: force them to make concessions. Today, black consumers in the 387 00:26:54,640 --> 00:26:58,160 Speaker 1: US spend hundreds of billions a year in the capital's economy. 388 00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:05,240 Speaker 1: Of course, not all of those consumers are workers, and 389 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:11,800 Speaker 1: all those workers are able to boycott. But I think 390 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,439 Speaker 1: boycott are still a potential to the arsenal again to 391 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:22,040 Speaker 1: wage you know, warfare, economic warfare against the corporate structures. 392 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 1: I mean, it could be expanded from anything. It can 393 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,920 Speaker 1: be expanded to cover everything from specific products to entire industries. Right. 394 00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 1: Dr Martin Luther King Junior himself recognized the potential of 395 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: the national black boycott. Dr Martin Luther King Junior himself 396 00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,879 Speaker 1: recognized the potential of a national black boycott for America's 397 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:53,040 Speaker 1: major corporations. Shortly after he was assassinated, he established such 398 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,000 Speaker 1: an initiative called Operation bread Basket, which aimed, among other things, 399 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: to force corporations to poor money into national Black community 400 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:07,440 Speaker 1: development projects for poor communities. I think, you know, podcasts 401 00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:15,959 Speaker 1: have a way to put economic pressure, but they, I 402 00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:22,760 Speaker 1: also believe a little bit less effective in our modern 403 00:28:22,920 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: globalized world due to the fact that you know, a 404 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,879 Speaker 1: lot of these companies are owned by the same like 405 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 1: three corporations. They usually have ways to mitigate economic losses 406 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:40,600 Speaker 1: in one market by targeting other alternative markets. Or even 407 00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:45,040 Speaker 1: if they experience a dip in demand in one sector, 408 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,120 Speaker 1: they may still enjoy demand in another sector and another 409 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 1: part of the world. And on top of that company is 410 00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: kind of also use that as an opportunity to sort 411 00:28:58,040 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 1: of get people off the movement. For example, a boycott 412 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:04,000 Speaker 1: is taking place, they could say, oh, you're trying to boycott. Well, 413 00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:08,120 Speaker 1: we just put a sale out fifty sixty percent of 414 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: wild stocks last. And then you have people sort of 415 00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:15,320 Speaker 1: you know, breaking off of the movement. And and I mean, 416 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 1: of course not everybody will do that, some people are principled. 417 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,160 Speaker 1: But that is still a tactic that you see some 418 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: companies using when they're starting to experience that's sort of 419 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:27,959 Speaker 1: economic pressure, they try to fragment the movement quote unquote 420 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: votes in with your wallet. Even mass coordinated, in my opinion, 421 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: is limited in its ability to challenge the courses of 422 00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: oppression in equality. I would think it brings us any 423 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 1: closer to anarchist I think it only recuns the current world. 424 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,560 Speaker 1: So I think it's another tactic that really cannot act alone. 425 00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,360 Speaker 1: And then we got another tool in Yes, now be 426 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,160 Speaker 1: could call it a rent boycott, call it a rent strike. 427 00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 1: It's a way to achieve certain legislative changes. Al so 428 00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:06,160 Speaker 1: we to achieve certain more radical changes if you get 429 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,800 Speaker 1: into sort of occupation and squatting and that kind of thing. 430 00:30:10,480 --> 00:30:13,600 Speaker 1: In Harlem and New York City, rent boycotts were so 431 00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: successful the the creation of rent control legislation, which prevented 432 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,840 Speaker 1: evictions unjustified price increases and required reasonable upkeep by property 433 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:26,960 Speaker 1: owners and management companies. There is a track record of 434 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:31,200 Speaker 1: Rench strikes providing some benefits, you know, allowing tenants to 435 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,920 Speaker 1: negotiate with landlords and to bring some issues to light. 436 00:30:35,680 --> 00:30:37,840 Speaker 1: An I could also bring about, of course, certain policy 437 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:43,960 Speaker 1: changes and push for or highlight further the need for 438 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: affordable and accessible housing. But again, French strikes are legally risky. 439 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:54,080 Speaker 1: They can also be difficult to coordinate, especially for those 440 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: who are really kind of risk eviction. I mean, nobody 441 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: can really risk eviction, right, But that's where the risks 442 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:06,000 Speaker 1: sort of comes in. And then if there's a lack 443 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 1: of support, if the land world has significant resources behind them, 444 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:12,720 Speaker 1: there are also you know, ways that it could go wrong. 445 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,160 Speaker 1: I don't want to mislead, like, I want people to 446 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: be aware of the reality of how difficult this sort 447 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,440 Speaker 1: of organizing effort is. All these organizing efforts are. It's 448 00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 1: not a walk in the park. It's not you know, 449 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 1: like acts the end of Act three and some revolution 450 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,640 Speaker 1: story movie where the good guys are able to win 451 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:39,640 Speaker 1: with the power of friendship, with that kind of thing. 452 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:43,360 Speaker 1: It's tough work and we have to be aware of 453 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 1: the risks even as we engage in such actions, even 454 00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,320 Speaker 1: also advocates for you know, squatting and tandem with rend strikes. So, 455 00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,600 Speaker 1: in addition to withholding rent payments from exploits of landlords 456 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: and banks, also movements to engage in urban squat and 457 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,640 Speaker 1: to seize how it is, and to seize empty plots 458 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: of land, to seize unoccupied and abandoned buildings, and to 459 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,160 Speaker 1: redirect payments that would have gone towards rent towards necessary repairs, 460 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:18,040 Speaker 1: to improve living conditions, and to claim our cities for ourselves. 461 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:22,880 Speaker 1: But again, will squating does provided immediate housing solution for 462 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 1: those in need, while it draws attentions the issue of 463 00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 1: horsting inequality, while it creates a sense of collective ownership, 464 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:32,440 Speaker 1: and while it can help to improve all these neglected 465 00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:40,040 Speaker 1: areas and urban environments, it's also legal cross involved in 466 00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:45,440 Speaker 1: effection and the rest A lot of squatting conditions can 467 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:49,440 Speaker 1: be fairly unsafe, will unsanitary, particularly if a property is 468 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: not up to a particular standard. And then, of course 469 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 1: squatting is also sort of temporary as a solution. It 470 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 1: doesn't really address the root courses of housing. It is 471 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 1: really a precarious position to keep people in. And it's 472 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: another case where without mass defense and support, we've got 473 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,760 Speaker 1: a mass movement backing it up, it's going to be 474 00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 1: very easy to dislodge any games that might be made 475 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:28,520 Speaker 1: in the short term. Family even also argues for the 476 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:34,080 Speaker 1: establishment of the commune as a staging ground for black 477 00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,400 Speaker 1: revolutionary struggle. The concept of the community is basically like 478 00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:45,240 Speaker 1: a dual power structure, an institution meant to compete with 479 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,000 Speaker 1: government power to preserve as a community to government power 480 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:57,280 Speaker 1: in order to assert collective community power foreman and unifying 481 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: various organizations, a struggle to con troll of existing communities 482 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: and institutions and work at a fight against economic and 483 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: political and cultural discrimination, expertiation, and servitude in this capitalist society. 484 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:17,759 Speaker 1: And he goes in to talk about inner city communes 485 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,680 Speaker 1: as centers of black counterpower and social of nurtionary culture 486 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: to say, as sort of a living example of what 487 00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,399 Speaker 1: revolution could look like. I think this is a case 488 00:34:29,440 --> 00:34:33,600 Speaker 1: where at the time he didn't have the word for it, 489 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: but we do now, and that would be prefigurative politics. 490 00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,719 Speaker 1: The idea of you know, establishing these sort of institutions 491 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:45,839 Speaker 1: and here and now that would be able to prefigure 492 00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:49,160 Speaker 1: the world that we want to see in the future. 493 00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: Another component of these sort of communes is to provide 494 00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: a count narrative to sort of black capitalism and responsibility 495 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:03,800 Speaker 1: politics gets pushed out does a dominant narrative within Black 496 00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,320 Speaker 1: communities in the US. The commune and the Black commune specifically, 497 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,400 Speaker 1: you can say there's a place for a new society 498 00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:16,840 Speaker 1: and a new culture to emerge. The rejects the internalization 499 00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,920 Speaker 1: of oppression under this system. And so when you want 500 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:23,800 Speaker 1: to get into sort of how the sort of community 501 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:29,839 Speaker 1: be established, even talks about establishing community councils the world 502 00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:37,040 Speaker 1: govern and even talks about establishing community councils to allow 503 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: for collective governance and be composed of workers from various 504 00:35:44,719 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: industries and neighborhoods and delegates to organize communities on a 505 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:59,320 Speaker 1: block by block basis. He also emphasizes the need to 506 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:05,080 Speaker 1: reject black politicians, bureaucrats, and mayors from sort of co 507 00:36:05,239 --> 00:36:10,440 Speaker 1: opting these efforts and ensuring that the community on the 508 00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:15,560 Speaker 1: ground actually retains control over the institutions that they establish 509 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,920 Speaker 1: and develop and take control over to ensure that the 510 00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 1: community's needs and desires are met. One example that he 511 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 1: uses is in the case of schools right where the 512 00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:38,960 Speaker 1: community would organize parents, students, teachers, and community like to 513 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 1: cooperatively administer the schools. I think we see a lot 514 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,160 Speaker 1: of efforts by right wing parents right now organize and 515 00:36:54,560 --> 00:36:56,840 Speaker 1: sort of run things in a lot of public schools. 516 00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:02,960 Speaker 1: But that does mean that similar efforts can't be but 517 00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 1: take and by radicals to push for the same. Of course, 518 00:37:06,320 --> 00:37:09,399 Speaker 1: it wouldn't be as easy because they aim to see 519 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 1: the status school, whereas we aim to change things. 520 00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 2: I think it is sort of important to note too 521 00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 2: that it's like, it's not like the sort of like 522 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 2: right wing school stuff came out of nowhere. Like part 523 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,759 Speaker 2: of the reason this was happening was that like there 524 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,840 Speaker 2: had been movements inside the like inside sorry let me 525 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:31,200 Speaker 2: if I say it, there have been movements from teachers 526 00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,919 Speaker 2: and from like inside the education system trying to sort 527 00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:38,319 Speaker 2: of like you know, we do things I teach black history, right, 528 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 2: and you know, like part like these are these are 529 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,600 Speaker 2: things that like these are kinds of movements that people 530 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:48,040 Speaker 2: really tend to ignore and really tend to sort of 531 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,279 Speaker 2: not think about the significance of. But yeah, I mean 532 00:37:53,320 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 2: it's it's it's not like these sort of like right 533 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,640 Speaker 2: wing versions of this came out of nowhere. They were 534 00:37:57,719 --> 00:38:01,200 Speaker 2: reacting to people, you know, doing a sort of more 535 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:02,680 Speaker 2: moderate version of the strategy. 536 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:07,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, that is true, And so now we 537 00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:13,520 Speaker 1: have to push even harder to counter their counter efforts 538 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:20,720 Speaker 1: and really assuite that sort of transformation in the education 539 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: space and beyond just the education space. What Even talks 540 00:38:25,880 --> 00:38:33,360 Speaker 1: about is ensuring that these councils encompass a variety of organizations, 541 00:38:34,320 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: not just blocking neighborhood communities, but also labor union, student groups, 542 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: social activist groups, and even specialists you or single issue 543 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:47,799 Speaker 1: campaigns and issues. The idea is, of course, to continuously 544 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 1: promote self rule, to continuously develop people's powers and drives 545 00:38:54,920 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 1: and consciousness towards liberation, and to continuously offer an alternative 546 00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: to this pervasive sense that all this is is all 547 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: they can ever be its. It's necessary to sort of 548 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: incubate this sort of embryo of a revolutionary society, this 549 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:22,520 Speaker 1: micro cause of a new lifestyle, and to highlight the 550 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:27,279 Speaker 1: necessity of struggle against you know, these systems. And when 551 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:33,040 Speaker 1: I speak of consciousness, I'm also speaking of specifically black consciousness. 552 00:39:33,719 --> 00:39:38,360 Speaker 1: Speaking of consciousness rais and sessions, to ensure that black history, 553 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:43,880 Speaker 1: black culture is accessible and available and understood by the 554 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:48,120 Speaker 1: black community. To ensure that newly liberates and like social 555 00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: ideas and values are distributed within the community. To ensure 556 00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:58,080 Speaker 1: that con slinin therapy are available, rooted, and of course 557 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: a black revolutionary perspective tell people to realize that this 558 00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:15,520 Speaker 1: disunity and distrust and violence and oppression that because due 559 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:18,640 Speaker 1: to this legacy end of this system does not have 560 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:25,640 Speaker 1: to continue to be so. But that's it for me 561 00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:29,120 Speaker 1: and for Uven for now. You can join us for 562 00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: part two where we can dive into the day to 563 00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:35,719 Speaker 1: day aspects. So there's Viber programs that Uven describes to 564 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:40,239 Speaker 1: build black resilience in the air. And now, if you're 565 00:40:40,239 --> 00:40:42,279 Speaker 1: looking for me on the internet, you can find me 566 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:45,720 Speaker 1: on YouTube dot com slash Androism, and you can support 567 00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:49,160 Speaker 1: on patreon dot com slash Say Peace. 568 00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:56,360 Speaker 2: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media. 569 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,280 Speaker 2: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 570 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 2: cool zone media Com, or check us out on the 571 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,960 Speaker 2: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. 572 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:07,720 Speaker 2: You can find sources for It Could happen here, updated 573 00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,800 Speaker 2: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com, Slash sources, Thanks for listening.