Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning and if you haven't heard yet,
Speaker 1: a lot has been happening with the Trial. First, we'll
Speaker 1: be back with season two of Betriyals starting May eighteenth.
Speaker 1: We even have a sneak peek at the end of
Speaker 1: this episode. Second Trial Season one is being turned into
Speaker 1: a documentary. More details on when and where it will launch,
Speaker 1: so stay tuned on the feed for updates.
Speaker 2: Looking back now, I was thinking I was way too
Speaker 2: young for us to have a friendship, and as a
Speaker 2: married man and me being a single young woman, we
Speaker 2: should not have had any kind of relationship or regular relationship.
Speaker 1: Jennifer recently had a chance to talk with a woman
Speaker 1: from Spencer's past, and she offers an interesting perspective.
Speaker 3: So why did you decide to speak with me today?
Speaker 2: I have to say that even till today, I did
Speaker 2: have some reservations. Part of me feels as though I'm
Speaker 2: betraying somebody I've known for twenty something years. But I
Speaker 2: did want to speak to you, and I feel I
Speaker 2: need to speak to you because I think as females
Speaker 2: we are kind of told not to speak up. And
Speaker 2: I've had my experiences with sexual assault and never spoke up,
Speaker 2: and I feel it is important to be part of
Speaker 2: this in some way. I guess that historical piece another
Speaker 2: person who may have known him for quite some time.
Speaker 2: I just feel like there should be as many people
Speaker 2: that can speak to you as possible.
Speaker 3: Well. I completely understand that you guys have known each
Speaker 3: other since when.
Speaker 2: Gosh, it's been about twenty five years, so quite some time.
Speaker 3: How did you meet?
Speaker 2: We met while I was interning for a radio state
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 3: Were you guys kind of seeing each other or dating?
Speaker 3: How would you describe that in the beginning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the beginning, absolutely not. He was a married man,
Speaker 2: had little children. But something did change once he did
Speaker 2: get a divorce, you know, it became a sexual relationship.
Speaker 2: We always maintained a friendship and it kind of was
Speaker 2: off and on.
Speaker 3: How was he back then?
Speaker 2: He was always extremely friendly, extremely giving of his time,
Speaker 2: very very positive, and always giving compliments. You really felt
Speaker 2: like he was with you no matter when, whether we
Speaker 2: were just strictly friends or more than friends, extremely complimentary
Speaker 2: and he made you feel so special all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that behavior is so similar with everyone across
Speaker 3: the board.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, listening to the podcast, there was
Speaker 2: a lot of what I heard that I didn't experience.
Speaker 2: I guess, you know, I'm fortunate that I didn't experience
Speaker 2: some of those negative things. I didn't see those sides
Speaker 2: of him, and it makes me really feel for those
Speaker 2: who were traumatized.
Speaker 3: And he didn't to me either.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, for me.
Speaker 3: I think it's because he knew me enough to know
Speaker 3: how to speak with me or treat me things like that.
Speaker 3: I feel like maybe it was similar with you. He
Speaker 3: knew he might not be able to get away with
Speaker 3: some of this stuff. Hmm, that he could get away with.
Speaker 2: I think you're You're pretty spot on right there, because
Speaker 2: we didn't have the type of relationship where we were
Speaker 2: so called committed, so if anything were to go wrong,
Speaker 2: just by and I think he realized that.
Speaker 3: So, you guys were kind of seeing each other just whenever,
Speaker 3: on and off. Do you remember him talking about getting
Speaker 3: married again.
Speaker 2: I do, And he was excited. He was really happy
Speaker 2: to reconnect it with you. I do recall that being
Speaker 2: a joyous time for him. He just really felt that
Speaker 2: you were his person. And I think there was a
Speaker 2: period where maybe he felt and I certainly can't speak
Speaker 2: for him, but perhaps he felt like, okay, this is
Speaker 2: this is it all? This is going to stop now,
Speaker 2: I'm going to focus on this person.
Speaker 3: But it didn't stop, right. I know he did some
Speaker 3: work for you, and you guys would see each other,
Speaker 3: but how did he justify having this affair? After he
Speaker 3: and I were married.
Speaker 2: We would check in periodically, I'm like, how are things going.
Speaker 2: He would tell me about the wine bar that you
Speaker 2: guys open, and was really excited and would tell me,
Speaker 2: you know, oh, she's traveling a lot. But then I
Speaker 2: would hear sort of things to justify why we could
Speaker 2: have a relationship beyond a friendship. Again, he would say
Speaker 2: things like we're not happy. I don't know if he
Speaker 2: needed to have that in his mind as well, but
Speaker 2: he certainly sold it as though you guys were really
Speaker 2: on the out right and I know that you're not
Speaker 2: asking this to shame me. However, it happened, and I
Speaker 2: obviously do feel shameful. I would not want that to
Speaker 2: be done to me. Sure, but you know, he's like, well,
Speaker 2: my wife is going to be out of town. Why
Speaker 2: don't you come check out the wine bar on a Saturday.
Speaker 2: I thought, Okay, why not. It's going to be harmless
Speaker 2: and you know, it wasn't just a harmless, friendly visit.
Speaker 2: It was an intimate visit. But he certainly sold it
Speaker 2: as though you were still living together. You were still
Speaker 2: on paper married, but emotionally you guys were not together.
Speaker 2: Anything after that was kind of off and on. Every
Speaker 2: so often we would check in and it'd been a
Speaker 2: long time, and I don't know why. I was like,
Speaker 2: I need to google, and I don't google people. I
Speaker 2: don't ever google myself. I never google. And I googled
Speaker 2: and I saw his mugshot pop up, and I was floored, floored.
Speaker 2: I thought, what could this man have possibly done? I
Speaker 2: would never ever think that he would be arrested for anything.
Speaker 2: And even when I read the stories and I read
Speaker 2: the reports, there was part of me that thought, this
Speaker 2: has got to be a mistake. This has to be
Speaker 2: a mistake.
Speaker 3: Because you know Spence, he had all these accolades and
Speaker 3: all of you know, everybody loved him. Who would believe it?
Speaker 2: Right? Everybody has that persona that they present when they
Speaker 2: want to to the masses. I mean, how many times
Speaker 2: do you hear people saying I don't believe it. They
Speaker 2: were so nice, right, right?
Speaker 3: What did you think about the fact that it was
Speaker 3: a student of his.
Speaker 2: I immediately thought he has kids that age. Would he want
Speaker 2: that to happen to his children? I was floored and
Speaker 2: hearing her story was I mean, how she was extremely
Speaker 2: brave to stand up.
Speaker 3: Right. I'm hoping by us talking about these things, it
Speaker 3: will encourage people to speak up and to feel safe
Speaker 3: in doing that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and first and foremost victims have to feel safe
Speaker 2: enough to say something.
Speaker 3: Yeah, did you hear that last conversation with us?
Speaker 2: I did? I did, And I commend you for doing that.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I could. That had to have
Speaker 2: been the most difficult conversation of your life, one of them.
Speaker 2: He was not remorseful. He certainly sounded as though he
Speaker 2: was the victim because he was incarcerated, right, And it's
Speaker 2: unfortunate because this pattern will just continue. He won't be
Speaker 2: able to break this cycle. So it really was upsetting
Speaker 2: to hear him.
Speaker 3: I know. I mean, that's my fear now that he's out.
Speaker 2: It's so unfortunate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you saw Spence, what do you think you
Speaker 3: would say to him or do?
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a great question. The first thing comes to
Speaker 2: mind is how dare you? Who are you you're certainly
Speaker 2: not the person I knew all these years. Yeah, after
Speaker 2: hearing these stories, I really really really feel for these
Speaker 2: women who've experienced that manipulation, and especially those who who
Speaker 2: were assaulted. And we're too young.
Speaker 3: They were too young, yes, to be lied to and
Speaker 3: manipulated and groomed in all of those horrible things.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, their lives are forever changed.
Speaker 3: Forever changed. And I don't know that he's capable of remorse.
Speaker 2: I absolutely agree with you, And you're obviously doing this
Speaker 2: for the masses, you know, for those that are listening
Speaker 2: to feel that they can have a voice, But you're
Speaker 2: also doing a lot for those who have been victims
Speaker 2: and feel like they have a safe space to speak.
Speaker 2: So I hope that you understand that as well.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for saying that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, it's true.
Speaker 3: Well, I know this wasn't easy for you. I am
Speaker 3: grateful though, that you're willing to speak out, because I think,
Speaker 3: especially as women, to be honest, to have these kind
Speaker 3: of conversations and get past kind of the yuckiness of
Speaker 3: it and you know that part, but then talk about
Speaker 3: the real underlying issue. Yeah, hopefully we'll just kind of
Speaker 3: keep doing this work, you know. I mean, if we
Speaker 3: can have more open and honest conversations, maybe we can
Speaker 3: make a difference.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's my pleasure. Jen. I'm glad that we could
Speaker 2: speak today.
Speaker 1: And thanks to you guys, our Betrayal community, and get ready,
Speaker 1: we'll be back with season two of Betrayal starting May eighteenth.
Speaker 1: It's about a new betrayal that rarely ever is spoken about,
Speaker 1: but we'll confront it head on. Here's a sneak peek.
Speaker 4: My husband and I were opening a business. His first
Speaker 4: job was that very next day. One of the clients
Speaker 4: had asked if they could bendmo him, so he'd called
Speaker 4: me that morning September twenty ninth, twenty twenty one. He
Speaker 4: was like, I need you to set up my business Venmo,
Speaker 4: and I was like, all right, use your name and
Speaker 4: password for whatever email is connected to your Venmo. So
Speaker 4: he sent me the log in for his eCloud and
Speaker 4: as I'm signing in, he frantically calls me back. He
Speaker 4: was like, Oh, don't worry about it, we'll do it
Speaker 4: together when we get home. Like, I'm sorry, it's going
Speaker 4: to be too much, Like, don't do it. I knew
Speaker 4: by the tenor of his voice that he was trying
Speaker 4: to hide something. I thought maybe he bought something they
Speaker 4: didn't want me to know about. There was nothing in
Speaker 4: his photos, and then I scrolled down, and that's when
Speaker 4: I saw a hidden folder and I opened it. You know,
Speaker 4: when you open your photos, it's going to show you
Speaker 4: like a whole bunch of them at once. I slammed
Speaker 4: my computer shot, what the hell did I just see.
Speaker 2: That?
Speaker 1: Season two of Betrayal