WEBVTT - Intimate Visit — Bonus | Jenifer's Story

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<v Speaker 1>Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning and if you haven't heard yet,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot has been happening with the Trial. First, we'll

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<v Speaker 1>be back with season two of Betriyals starting May eighteenth.

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<v Speaker 1>We even have a sneak peek at the end of

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<v Speaker 1>this episode. Second Trial Season one is being turned into

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<v Speaker 1>a documentary. More details on when and where it will launch,

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<v Speaker 1>so stay tuned on the feed for updates.

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<v Speaker 2>Looking back now, I was thinking I was way too

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<v Speaker 2>young for us to have a friendship, and as a

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<v Speaker 2>married man and me being a single young woman, we

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<v Speaker 2>should not have had any kind of relationship or regular relationship.

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<v Speaker 1>Jennifer recently had a chance to talk with a woman

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<v Speaker 1>from Spencer's past, and she offers an interesting perspective.

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<v Speaker 3>So why did you decide to speak with me today?

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<v Speaker 2>I have to say that even till today, I did

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<v Speaker 2>have some reservations. Part of me feels as though I'm

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<v Speaker 2>betraying somebody I've known for twenty something years. But I

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<v Speaker 2>did want to speak to you, and I feel I

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<v Speaker 2>need to speak to you because I think as females

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<v Speaker 2>we are kind of told not to speak up. And

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<v Speaker 2>I've had my experiences with sexual assault and never spoke up,

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<v Speaker 2>and I feel it is important to be part of

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<v Speaker 2>this in some way. I guess that historical piece another

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<v Speaker 2>person who may have known him for quite some time.

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<v Speaker 2>I just feel like there should be as many people

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<v Speaker 2>that can speak to you as possible.

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<v Speaker 3>Well. I completely understand that you guys have known each

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<v Speaker 3>other since when.

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<v Speaker 2>Gosh, it's been about twenty five years, so quite some time.

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<v Speaker 3>How did you meet?

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<v Speaker 2>We met while I was interning for a radio state

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<v Speaker 2>at the time.

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<v Speaker 3>Were you guys kind of seeing each other or dating?

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<v Speaker 3>How would you describe that in the beginning.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, in the beginning, absolutely not. He was a married man,

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<v Speaker 2>had little children. But something did change once he did

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<v Speaker 2>get a divorce, you know, it became a sexual relationship.

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<v Speaker 2>We always maintained a friendship and it kind of was

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<v Speaker 2>off and on.

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<v Speaker 3>How was he back then?

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<v Speaker 2>He was always extremely friendly, extremely giving of his time,

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<v Speaker 2>very very positive, and always giving compliments. You really felt

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<v Speaker 2>like he was with you no matter when, whether we

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<v Speaker 2>were just strictly friends or more than friends, extremely complimentary

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<v Speaker 2>and he made you feel so special all the time.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and that behavior is so similar with everyone across

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<v Speaker 3>the board.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. And you know, listening to the podcast, there was

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of what I heard that I didn't experience.

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, you know, I'm fortunate that I didn't experience

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<v Speaker 2>some of those negative things. I didn't see those sides

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<v Speaker 2>of him, and it makes me really feel for those

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<v Speaker 2>who were traumatized.

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<v Speaker 3>And he didn't to me either.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, for me.

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<v Speaker 3>I think it's because he knew me enough to know

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<v Speaker 3>how to speak with me or treat me things like that.

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<v Speaker 3>I feel like maybe it was similar with you. He

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<v Speaker 3>knew he might not be able to get away with

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<v Speaker 3>some of this stuff. Hmm, that he could get away with.

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<v Speaker 2>I think you're You're pretty spot on right there, because

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<v Speaker 2>we didn't have the type of relationship where we were

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<v Speaker 2>so called committed, so if anything were to go wrong,

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<v Speaker 2>just by and I think he realized that.

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<v Speaker 3>So, you guys were kind of seeing each other just whenever,

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<v Speaker 3>on and off. Do you remember him talking about getting

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<v Speaker 3>married again.

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<v Speaker 2>I do, And he was excited. He was really happy

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<v Speaker 2>to reconnect it with you. I do recall that being

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<v Speaker 2>a joyous time for him. He just really felt that

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<v Speaker 2>you were his person. And I think there was a

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<v Speaker 2>period where maybe he felt and I certainly can't speak

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<v Speaker 2>for him, but perhaps he felt like, okay, this is

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<v Speaker 2>this is it all? This is going to stop now,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm going to focus on this person.

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<v Speaker 3>But it didn't stop, right. I know he did some

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<v Speaker 3>work for you, and you guys would see each other,

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<v Speaker 3>but how did he justify having this affair? After he

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<v Speaker 3>and I were married.

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<v Speaker 2>We would check in periodically, I'm like, how are things going.

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<v Speaker 2>He would tell me about the wine bar that you

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<v Speaker 2>guys open, and was really excited and would tell me,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, oh, she's traveling a lot. But then I

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<v Speaker 2>would hear sort of things to justify why we could

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<v Speaker 2>have a relationship beyond a friendship. Again, he would say

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<v Speaker 2>things like we're not happy. I don't know if he

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<v Speaker 2>needed to have that in his mind as well, but

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<v Speaker 2>he certainly sold it as though you guys were really

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<v Speaker 2>on the out right and I know that you're not

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<v Speaker 2>asking this to shame me. However, it happened, and I

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<v Speaker 2>obviously do feel shameful. I would not want that to

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<v Speaker 2>be done to me. Sure, but you know, he's like, well,

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<v Speaker 2>my wife is going to be out of town. Why

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<v Speaker 2>don't you come check out the wine bar on a Saturday.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought, Okay, why not. It's going to be harmless

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<v Speaker 2>and you know, it wasn't just a harmless, friendly visit.

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<v Speaker 2>It was an intimate visit. But he certainly sold it

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<v Speaker 2>as though you were still living together. You were still

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<v Speaker 2>on paper married, but emotionally you guys were not together.

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<v Speaker 2>Anything after that was kind of off and on. Every

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<v Speaker 2>so often we would check in and it'd been a

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<v Speaker 2>long time, and I don't know why. I was like,

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<v Speaker 2>I need to google, and I don't google people. I

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<v Speaker 2>don't ever google myself. I never google. And I googled

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<v Speaker 2>and I saw his mugshot pop up, and I was floored, floored.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought, what could this man have possibly done? I

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<v Speaker 2>would never ever think that he would be arrested for anything.

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<v Speaker 2>And even when I read the stories and I read

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<v Speaker 2>the reports, there was part of me that thought, this

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<v Speaker 2>has got to be a mistake. This has to be

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<v Speaker 2>a mistake.

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<v Speaker 3>Because you know Spence, he had all these accolades and

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<v Speaker 3>all of you know, everybody loved him. Who would believe it?

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<v Speaker 2>Right? Everybody has that persona that they present when they

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<v Speaker 2>want to to the masses. I mean, how many times

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<v Speaker 2>do you hear people saying I don't believe it. They

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<v Speaker 2>were so nice, right, right?

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<v Speaker 3>What did you think about the fact that it was

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<v Speaker 3>a student of his.

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<v Speaker 2>I immediately thought he has kids that age. Would he want

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<v Speaker 2>that to happen to his children? I was floored and

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<v Speaker 2>hearing her story was I mean, how she was extremely

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<v Speaker 2>brave to stand up.

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<v Speaker 3>Right. I'm hoping by us talking about these things, it

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<v Speaker 3>will encourage people to speak up and to feel safe

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<v Speaker 3>in doing that.

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<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, and first and foremost victims have to feel safe

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<v Speaker 2>enough to say something.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, did you hear that last conversation with us?

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<v Speaker 2>I did? I did, And I commend you for doing that.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't know if I could. That had to have

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<v Speaker 2>been the most difficult conversation of your life, one of them.

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<v Speaker 2>He was not remorseful. He certainly sounded as though he

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<v Speaker 2>was the victim because he was incarcerated, right, And it's

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<v Speaker 2>unfortunate because this pattern will just continue. He won't be

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<v Speaker 2>able to break this cycle. So it really was upsetting

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<v Speaker 2>to hear him.

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<v Speaker 3>I know. I mean, that's my fear now that he's out.

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<v Speaker 2>It's so unfortunate.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, if you saw Spence, what do you think you

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<v Speaker 3>would say to him or do?

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<v Speaker 2>Wow, that's a great question. The first thing comes to

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<v Speaker 2>mind is how dare you? Who are you you're certainly

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<v Speaker 2>not the person I knew all these years. Yeah, after

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<v Speaker 2>hearing these stories, I really really really feel for these

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<v Speaker 2>women who've experienced that manipulation, and especially those who who

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<v Speaker 2>were assaulted. And we're too young.

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<v Speaker 3>They were too young, yes, to be lied to and

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<v Speaker 3>manipulated and groomed in all of those horrible things.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, their lives are forever changed.

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<v Speaker 3>Forever changed. And I don't know that he's capable of remorse.

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<v Speaker 2>I absolutely agree with you, And you're obviously doing this

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<v Speaker 2>for the masses, you know, for those that are listening

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<v Speaker 2>to feel that they can have a voice, But you're

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<v Speaker 2>also doing a lot for those who have been victims

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<v Speaker 2>and feel like they have a safe space to speak.

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<v Speaker 2>So I hope that you understand that as well.

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<v Speaker 3>Thank you very much for saying that. I appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, thank you, it's true.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, I know this wasn't easy for you. I am

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<v Speaker 3>grateful though, that you're willing to speak out, because I think,

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<v Speaker 3>especially as women, to be honest, to have these kind

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<v Speaker 3>of conversations and get past kind of the yuckiness of

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<v Speaker 3>it and you know that part, but then talk about

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<v Speaker 3>the real underlying issue. Yeah, hopefully we'll just kind of

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<v Speaker 3>keep doing this work, you know. I mean, if we

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<v Speaker 3>can have more open and honest conversations, maybe we can

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<v Speaker 3>make a difference.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's my pleasure. Jen. I'm glad that we could

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<v Speaker 2>speak today.

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<v Speaker 1>And thanks to you guys, our Betrayal community, and get ready,

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<v Speaker 1>we'll be back with season two of Betrayal starting May eighteenth.

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<v Speaker 1>It's about a new betrayal that rarely ever is spoken about,

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<v Speaker 1>but we'll confront it head on. Here's a sneak peek.

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<v Speaker 4>My husband and I were opening a business. His first

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<v Speaker 4>job was that very next day. One of the clients

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<v Speaker 4>had asked if they could bendmo him, so he'd called

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<v Speaker 4>me that morning September twenty ninth, twenty twenty one. He

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<v Speaker 4>was like, I need you to set up my business Venmo,

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<v Speaker 4>and I was like, all right, use your name and

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<v Speaker 4>password for whatever email is connected to your Venmo. So

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<v Speaker 4>he sent me the log in for his eCloud and

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<v Speaker 4>as I'm signing in, he frantically calls me back. He

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<v Speaker 4>was like, Oh, don't worry about it, we'll do it

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<v Speaker 4>together when we get home. Like, I'm sorry, it's going

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<v Speaker 4>to be too much, Like, don't do it. I knew

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<v Speaker 4>by the tenor of his voice that he was trying

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<v Speaker 4>to hide something. I thought maybe he bought something they

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<v Speaker 4>didn't want me to know about. There was nothing in

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<v Speaker 4>his photos, and then I scrolled down, and that's when

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<v Speaker 4>I saw a hidden folder and I opened it. You know,

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<v Speaker 4>when you open your photos, it's going to show you

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<v Speaker 4>like a whole bunch of them at once. I slammed

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<v Speaker 4>my computer shot, what the hell did I just see.

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<v Speaker 2>That?

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<v Speaker 1>Season two of Betrayal