Speaker 1: Hey guys, it's Andrea Gunning and if you haven't heard yet,
Speaker 1: a lot has been happening with the Trial. First, we'll
Speaker 1: be back with season two of Betriyals starting May eighteenth.
Speaker 1: We even have a sneak peek at the end of
Speaker 1: this episode. Second Trial Season one is being turned into
Speaker 1: a documentary. More details on when and where it will launch,
Speaker 1: so stay tuned on the feed for updates.
Speaker 2: Looking back now, I was thinking I was way too
Speaker 2: young for us to have a friendship, and as a
Speaker 2: married man and me being a single young woman, we
Speaker 2: should not have had any kind of relationship or regular relationship.
Speaker 1: Jennifer recently had a chance to talk with a woman
Speaker 1: from Spencer's past, and she offers an interesting perspective.
Speaker 3: So why did you decide to speak with me today?
Speaker 2: I have to say that even till today, I did
Speaker 2: have some reservations. Part of me feels as though I'm
Speaker 2: betraying somebody I've known for twenty something years. But I
Speaker 2: did want to speak to you, and I feel I
Speaker 2: need to speak to you because I think as females
Speaker 2: we are kind of told not to speak up. And
Speaker 2: I've had my experiences with sexual assault and never spoke up,
Speaker 2: and I feel it is important to be part of
Speaker 2: this in some way. I guess that historical piece another
Speaker 2: person who may have known him for quite some time.
Speaker 2: I just feel like there should be as many people
Speaker 2: that can speak to you as possible.
Speaker 3: Well. I completely understand that you guys have known each
Speaker 3: other since when.
Speaker 2: Gosh, it's been about twenty five years, so quite some time.
Speaker 3: How did you meet?
Speaker 2: We met while I was interning for a radio state
Speaker 2: at the time.
Speaker 3: Were you guys kind of seeing each other or dating?
Speaker 3: How would you describe that in the beginning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, in the beginning, absolutely not. He was a married man,
Speaker 2: had little children. But something did change once he did
Speaker 2: get a divorce, you know, it became a sexual relationship.
Speaker 2: We always maintained a friendship and it kind of was
Speaker 2: off and on.
Speaker 3: How was he back then?
Speaker 2: He was always extremely friendly, extremely giving of his time,
Speaker 2: very very positive, and always giving compliments. You really felt
Speaker 2: like he was with you no matter when, whether we
Speaker 2: were just strictly friends or more than friends, extremely complimentary
Speaker 2: and he made you feel so special all the time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that behavior is so similar with everyone across
Speaker 3: the board.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And you know, listening to the podcast, there was a
Speaker 2: lot of what I heard that I didn't experience. I guess,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm fortunate that I didn't experience some of
Speaker 2: those negative things. I didn't see those sides of him,
Speaker 2: and it makes me really feel for those who were traumatized.
Speaker 3: And he didn't to me either.
Speaker 4: Yeah. Yeah, for me.
Speaker 3: I think it's because he knew me enough to know
Speaker 3: how to speak with me or treat me things like that.
Speaker 3: I feel like maybe it was similar with you. He
Speaker 3: knew he might not be able to get away with
Speaker 3: some of this stuff. Hmm, that he could get away with.
Speaker 2: I think you're You're pretty spot on right there, because
Speaker 2: we didn't have the type of relationship where we were
Speaker 2: so called committed, so if anything were to go wrong,
Speaker 2: just by and I think he realized that.
Speaker 3: So, you guys were kind of seeing each other just whenever,
Speaker 3: on and off. Do you remember him talking about getting
Speaker 3: married again.
Speaker 2: I do, And he was excited. He was really happy
Speaker 2: to reconnect it with you. I do recall that being
Speaker 2: a joyous time for him. He just really felt that
Speaker 2: you were his person. And I think there was a
Speaker 2: period where maybe he felt and I certainly can't speak
Speaker 2: for him, but perhaps he felt like, okay, this is
Speaker 2: this is it all? This is going to stop now,
Speaker 2: I'm going to focus on this person.
Speaker 3: But it didn't stop, right. I know he did some
Speaker 3: work for you, and you guys would see each other,
Speaker 3: but how did he justify having this affair? After he
Speaker 3: and I were married.
Speaker 2: We would check in periodically, I'm like, how are things going.
Speaker 4: He would tell me about the wine.
Speaker 2: Bar that you guys open, and was really excited and
Speaker 2: would tell me, you know, oh, she's traveling a lot.
Speaker 2: But then I would hear sort of things to justify
Speaker 2: why we could have a relationship beyond a friendship. Again,
Speaker 2: he would say things like we're not happy. I don't
Speaker 2: know if he needed to have that in his mind
Speaker 2: as well, but he certainly sold it as though you
Speaker 2: guys were really on the out right and I.
Speaker 4: Know that you're not asking this to shame me.
Speaker 2: However, it happened, and I obviously do feel shameful. I
Speaker 2: would not want that to be done to me. Sure,
Speaker 2: but you know, he's like, well, my wife is going
Speaker 2: to be out of town. Why don't you come check
Speaker 2: out the wine.
Speaker 4: Bar on a Saturday. I thought, Okay, why not.
Speaker 2: It's going to be harmless and you know, it wasn't
Speaker 2: just a harmless, friendly visit. It was an intimate visit.
Speaker 2: But he certainly sold it as though you were still
Speaker 2: living together. You were still on paper married, but emotionally
Speaker 2: you guys were not together. Anything after that was kind
Speaker 2: of off and on. Every so often we would check
Speaker 2: in and it'd been a long time.
Speaker 4: And I don't know why.
Speaker 2: I was like, I need to google, and I don't
Speaker 2: google people.
Speaker 4: I don't ever google myself. I never google.
Speaker 2: And I googled and I saw his mugshot pop up,
Speaker 2: and I was floored, floored.
Speaker 4: I thought, what.
Speaker 2: Could this man have possibly done? I would never ever
Speaker 2: think that he would be arrested for anything. And even
Speaker 2: when I read the stories and I read the reports,
Speaker 2: there was part of me that thought, this has got
Speaker 2: to be a mistake.
Speaker 4: This has to be a mistake.
Speaker 3: Because you know Spence, he had all these accolades and
Speaker 3: all of you know, everybody loved him. Who would believe it?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: Everybody has that persona that they present when they want
Speaker 2: to to the masses. I mean, how many times do
Speaker 2: you hear people saying I don't believe it.
Speaker 4: They were so nice, right, right?
Speaker 3: What did you think about the fact that it was
Speaker 3: a student of his.
Speaker 2: I immediately thought he has kids that age.
Speaker 4: Would he want that to happen to his children?
Speaker 2: I was floored and hearing her story was I mean,
Speaker 2: how she was extremely brave to stand up.
Speaker 3: Right. I'm hoping by us talking about these things, it
Speaker 3: will encourage people to speak up and to feel safe
Speaker 3: in doing that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and first and foremost victims have to feel safe
Speaker 2: enough to say something.
Speaker 5: Yeah, did you.
Speaker 3: Hear that last conversation with us?
Speaker 4: I did?
Speaker 2: I did, And I commend you for doing that. I
Speaker 2: don't know if I could. That had to have been
Speaker 2: the most difficult conversation of your life, one of them.
Speaker 2: He was not remorseful. He certainly sounded as though he
Speaker 2: was the victim because he was incarcerated, right, And it's
Speaker 2: unfortunate because this pattern will just continue. He won't be
Speaker 2: able to break this cycle. So it really was upsetting
Speaker 2: to hear him.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 3: I mean, that's my fear now that he's out.
Speaker 4: It's so unfortunate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you saw Spence, what do you think you
Speaker 3: would say to him or do?
Speaker 2: Wow, that's a great question. The first thing comes to
Speaker 2: mind is how dare you? Who are you you're certainly
Speaker 2: not the person I knew all these years.
Speaker 4: Yeah, after hearing.
Speaker 2: These stories, I really really really feel for these women
Speaker 2: who've experienced that manipulation, and especially those who.
Speaker 4: Who were assaulted. And we're too young.
Speaker 3: They were too young, yes, to be lied to and
Speaker 3: manipulated and groomed in all of those horrible things.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, their lives are forever changed.
Speaker 3: Forever changed. And I don't know that he's capable of remorse.
Speaker 2: I absolutely agree with you, And you're obviously doing this
Speaker 2: for the masses, you know, for those that are listening
Speaker 2: to feel that they can have a voice, But you're
Speaker 2: also doing a lot for those who have been victims
Speaker 2: and feel like they have a safe space to speak.
Speaker 2: So I hope that you understand that as well.
Speaker 3: Thank you very much for saying that. I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thank you, it's true.
Speaker 3: Well, I know this wasn't easy for you. I am
Speaker 3: grateful though, that you're willing to speak out, because I think,
Speaker 3: especially as women, to be honest, to have these kind
Speaker 3: of conversations and get past kind of the yuckiness of
Speaker 3: it and you know that part, but then talk about
Speaker 3: the real underlying issue. Yeah, hopefully we'll just kind of
Speaker 3: keep doing this work, you know. I mean, if we
Speaker 3: can have more open and honest conversations, maybe we can
Speaker 3: make a difference.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's my pleasure. Jen. I'm glad that we could
Speaker 4: speak today.
Speaker 1: And thanks to you guys, our Betrayal community, and get ready,
Speaker 1: we'll be back with season two of Betrayal starting May eighteenth.
Speaker 1: It's about a new betrayal that rarely ever is spoken about,
Speaker 1: but we'll confront it head on. Here's a sneak peek.
Speaker 6: My husband and I were opening a business. His first
Speaker 6: job was that very next day. One of the clients
Speaker 6: had asked if they could bendmo him, so he'd called
Speaker 6: me that morning September twenty ninth, twenty twenty one. He
Speaker 6: was like, I need you to set up my business Venmo,
Speaker 6: and I was like, all right, use your name and
Speaker 6: password for whatever email is connected to your Venmo. So
Speaker 6: he sent me the log in for his eCloud and
Speaker 6: as I'm signing in, he frantically calls me back. He
Speaker 6: was like, Oh, don't worry about it, we'll do it
Speaker 6: together when we get home. Like, I'm sorry, it's going
Speaker 6: to be too much, Like, don't do it. I knew
Speaker 6: by the tenor of his voice that he was trying
Speaker 6: to hide something. I thought maybe he bought something they
Speaker 6: didn't want me to know about. There was nothing in
Speaker 6: his photos, and then I scrolled down, and that's when
Speaker 6: I saw a hidden folder and I opened it. You know,
Speaker 6: when you open your photos, it's going to show you
Speaker 6: like a whole bunch of them at once. I slammed
Speaker 6: my computer shot, what the hell did I just see.
Speaker 3: That?
Speaker 1: Season two of Betrayal