WEBVTT - The Saga of Milli Vanilli 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:11.479 Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey, 0:00:11.520 --> 0:00:14.200 and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:18.279 and here's Jerry too, and this is stuff you shouldette know. 0:00:19.640 --> 0:00:25.560 You know it's true. Girl. Oo ooh ooh. 0:00:26.600 --> 0:00:30.200 I love that you had this idea to do one 0:00:30.240 --> 0:00:33.960 on the Milli Vanilly story. Sure, I love that we're 0:00:33.960 --> 0:00:37.640 doing it. Yeah, And I was surprised about how much 0:00:38.040 --> 0:00:40.720 the US Army played in the story of Milli Vanilly. 0:00:41.240 --> 0:00:45.360 Yeah, technically you could say that the US Army produced 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:46.199 Millie Vanilli. 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.479 Initially, Yes, we'll point it out. Early on, there were 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:51.440 just quite a few references. I was like, there's the 0:00:51.560 --> 0:00:52.040 army again. 0:00:52.360 --> 0:00:55.240 Yeah, for sure, and even still today, but this was 0:00:55.840 --> 0:01:01.800 a full three decades later. Millie Vanilli is still generally 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.920 looked down upon as frauds and a sham and just 0:01:06.160 --> 0:01:09.280 a joke. But when it's one of those stories, just 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:11.559 like everything else, when you really dig into it's way 0:01:11.560 --> 0:01:15.040 more complex, way more complicated. And even when it's apparent 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:18.800 and clear that you got okay, here's the villain, if 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:21.080 you read interviews with the villain at the time, you're like, 0:01:22.200 --> 0:01:25.560 kind of make some great points here, too. It's just complicated. 0:01:25.600 --> 0:01:27.600 But one thing that I hope you guys get out 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:31.520 of this is that Rob and Fab were kids at 0:01:31.520 --> 0:01:35.760 the time we're in over their head. Were certainly not 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:42.840 responsible for orchestrating the fraud that was perpetrated through Millie Vanilli. 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.120 Now, they did as they were told, and like you said, 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.160 they were in the early twenties. I have a lot 0:01:48.200 --> 0:01:50.120 of I got a lot of sympathy for these. 0:01:50.040 --> 0:01:52.280 Guys, for sure, I do too, and I have even 0:01:52.320 --> 0:01:52.800 more now. 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:58.760 Yeah, all right, so you mentioned the what'd you call 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:00.520 him a villain or the orchestrator? 0:02:00.560 --> 0:02:03.000 Would I call them both? Technically? 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.720 All right? Well, we're talking about a man named Frank Farrian. 0:02:06.880 --> 0:02:11.720 He was born as Frank's I'm sorry, Franz Ruther nineteen 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:14.799 forty one. Grew up in Germany. Big fan of music, 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:18.400 big fan of soul music, American soul music, yes, and 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.799 was a singer himself, apparently a pretty decent singer, and 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:29.000 sang in clubs where United States Army soldiers would. 0:02:28.800 --> 0:02:31.440 Go, yeah, and he's sang what you'd call today blue 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:36.440 eyed soul. But this was before blue eyed soul was acceptable, 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:39.360 at least in Germany. So he wanted to sing like 0:02:39.440 --> 0:02:43.600 the songs of his heroes, but they were like, you're no, 0:02:43.880 --> 0:02:46.720 you shouldn't be doing that. Stop doing that. So he 0:02:46.800 --> 0:02:49.480 was thwarted as an actual artist from the get go, 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:53.400 and he moved into producing in the early seventies. And 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:56.359 there's a quote from him in the early nineties in 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.320 the midst of all this, and he said, you know 0:02:58.440 --> 0:03:01.240 the I know an other people are figuring out that 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:04.320 the producer is now the most important person in the band, 0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:07.960 not the artists. And if that didn't reflect the future, 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:11.079 then I don't know what does. Yeah, But he became 0:03:11.120 --> 0:03:13.840 a producer, and he became a pretty successful producer almost 0:03:13.840 --> 0:03:14.480 out of the gate. 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:18.880 Yeah, in Europe and then eventually, obviously thanks to Milli 0:03:18.960 --> 0:03:22.320 Vanilly worldwide. But in Europe he was super successful with 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:27.360 a group called Bonie M b O N Y capital M. 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.680 I don't know if they had an exclamation pointer in 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.120 Tero bang or something, that would have been kind of cool, sure, 0:03:33.320 --> 0:03:36.080 but in Tero Bang would have been perfect, actually yes, 0:03:36.360 --> 0:03:40.000 because you're like, what is a bonie M? But Boniem 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:45.000 was a group disco funk. Olivia described them as europop. 0:03:45.120 --> 0:03:48.720 They were all these things. When this album came out, 0:03:48.760 --> 0:03:52.160 and this is I mean pretty obvious that this laid 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:56.000 the groundwork for Milli Vanilly because Farian Frank Farrian sang 0:03:56.040 --> 0:04:00.600 the songs himself and hired four model singers from Caribbean 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:05.119 as the touring band, and between seventy six and eighty five, 0:04:05.160 --> 0:04:08.200 over a nine year period, they had eight studio albums 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:11.080 and we're pretty big in Europe. They weren't the hugest 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.040 thing ever, but they were big over there, not here. 0:04:14.560 --> 0:04:17.719 But he had laid this groundwork of this model of 0:04:18.720 --> 0:04:22.040 him or someone else singing, and other people that had 0:04:22.040 --> 0:04:24.800 a prettier face would be on the cover as the. 0:04:24.760 --> 0:04:28.120 Group, yeah, or touring as the group too, all of it, 0:04:28.360 --> 0:04:31.000 and you just wouldn't disclose that. You just you know, 0:04:31.360 --> 0:04:34.280 not mentioned that kind of thing. Yeah, and bony m 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:37.679 became popular enough that a guy named Bobby Farrell, who 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.440 was one of the i think one of the models 0:04:40.480 --> 0:04:44.440 who was hired, became the group's actual lead singer. But 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.400 he when he went to go into the studio and 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:51.240 record tracks after he left and the album came out, 0:04:51.480 --> 0:04:54.320 he'd find that his tracks have been re recorded over 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:55.480 with Farian singing. 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:56.160 Yeah. 0:04:56.400 --> 0:04:59.799 So that was just how it was Farian was in charge. 0:05:00.120 --> 0:05:02.360 You just had to go along with it, probably because 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:04.600 they signed a not so great contract with them. 0:05:04.920 --> 0:05:09.000 That's right. Now, we turned to the beginnings of the 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:14.240 Millie Vanilli story when Frank Farrion stole a song basically 0:05:14.680 --> 0:05:16.119 called Girl you Know It's True. 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.360 It was written by a group of people. 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.880 There was a Baltimore hip hop group named New Mars 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:29.400 in um RX collaborated with a singer from a group 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:34.359 called StarPoint name I Guess Kai or key at a Yemo, 0:05:35.400 --> 0:05:39.560 and then a man named Bill Peedaway Junior who became 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:44.320 a really big person in the music business like work 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.200 with Jay Z and Missy Elliott and all kinds of people, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:49.839 but at the time was working at a gas station 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:54.400 and got together with them, which included as part of 0:05:54.440 --> 0:05:58.159 Newmark's a guy named Kevin Lyles who is now the 0:05:58.200 --> 0:06:02.080 CEO three hundred Entertainment, which is a huge rap record label. 0:06:02.880 --> 0:06:05.039 Yeah, and if you go back and listen to Girl 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:09.719 you Know It's True by New Marks, you will recognize 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.120 it immediately because not only did Frank Ferrian steal the song, 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:18.800 when he remade it, he remade it really faithfully. He 0:06:18.960 --> 0:06:21.280 just basically gussied it up a little bit more than 0:06:21.320 --> 0:06:23.400 New Marks was capable of, because again he was a 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:27.200 really talented producer, but he didn't. It wasn't an interpretation 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.719 or a rearrangement of Girl. You know, it's true. He 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:33.640 just redid it exactly how New Marks had done it right. So, 0:06:34.160 --> 0:06:38.120 just just to put this in perspective, the fraud that 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.640 was Millie Vanilli started out with the theft of a song, 0:06:41.880 --> 0:06:43.720 their biggest their second biggest hit. 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.039 Actually yeah, and this song he was able to steal 0:06:47.040 --> 0:06:48.920 it because it was never a big hit. I think 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:51.960 it's sold about eight thousand records and in some regions 0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:54.279 of the US, I think Atlanta and Philly and Chicago 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:56.640 is what Livia found a little bit of airplay, but 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.200 it was not a big song in the United States. 0:07:01.279 --> 0:07:04.680 But very Key Studio Records, who was the indie label 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:06.560 to put it out. They also put it out in 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:10.400 Europe and this is where this is where Frank heard 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.760 it in Germany and was like, I can steal this thing. 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:13.960 It's not a problem. 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:18.600 Exactly, only eight thousand records, no problem. Yeah, So I'm not. 0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:21.600 I didn't see if he ever saw the permission. There's 0:07:21.680 --> 0:07:24.440 like a legend that supposedly he wanted to go collaborate 0:07:24.440 --> 0:07:27.760 with New Marks and was either ignored or was told no, 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:31.000 that's not necessarily true. There's a lot of stuff here 0:07:31.040 --> 0:07:32.920 that you just have to take with a grain of salt, 0:07:32.920 --> 0:07:35.040 because there are a lot of different people with a 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:39.040 lot of different self interests that gave their own version 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:42.480 of events. So just about everything we say you should 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.120 probably take with a grain of salt, including that. It's 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:49.040 entirely possible from what I've read about Frank Farrion that 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.000 he didn't try to get in touch with them at all. 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:53.760 He just decided he was going to take that song yeah, 0:07:53.800 --> 0:07:56.080 and deal with it later, deal with to fall out later. 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.840 They didn't New Marks didn't know that that happened until 0:07:58.880 --> 0:08:02.040 they heard Millie Vanilli singing it on the radio. 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:05.640 Can you imagine how mad man you would be. 0:08:06.080 --> 0:08:07.800 Yeah, they got they got paid later, and they got 0:08:07.800 --> 0:08:10.880 credit later because they followed a bunch of lawsuits. But 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:12.920 it took that to get that credit and money. 0:08:13.320 --> 0:08:17.600 So when Frank Ferrian put together his own version of girl, 0:08:17.680 --> 0:08:23.200 you know it's true. Fabrice Morvin and Rob Palladis or Polaitis, 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:26.920 they weren't even around yet. They were not part of 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:30.440 the group. They hadn't even met Frank Farrian at that point. 0:08:30.960 --> 0:08:34.320 They were well known around the Munich club scene as 0:08:34.320 --> 0:08:38.040 being like a couple of hot dudes, yeah who knew 0:08:38.040 --> 0:08:41.960 how to dance. Sure, and I believe that's kind of 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:44.920 where Farian caught on to them. For sure, we'll see 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:47.320 he invited them to come over. But before that, we 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:49.679 should talk a little bit about Rob and fab. 0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.360 Yeah, so fab like you said, his name is Fabrice. 0:08:52.440 --> 0:08:57.240 Morvin was born on Guadaloupe, is a Caribbean island, raised 0:08:57.240 --> 0:09:02.120 in Paris. Evidently was a pretty promising gymnast until a 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:06.199 vertebrae injury from a trampoline accident in nineteen eighty three. 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:08.200 And how it just hurts to think about. 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:12.400 I know, trampolines are so dangerous. They are so dangerous. Everybody. 0:09:12.440 --> 0:09:15.200 If you have a trampoline, you haven't heard our Trampoline episode, 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.960 go listen to it and then sell your trampoline. 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:20.240 Ruby asked for one. I was like, no way, So 0:09:22.440 --> 0:09:25.880 couldn't participate in gymnastics anymore, turned to dancing. 0:09:26.559 --> 0:09:26.719 So. 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:31.240 Rob Polaitis was born in New York City and the 0:09:31.240 --> 0:09:34.600 son of a German woman and a US soldier. Here 0:09:34.679 --> 0:09:39.040 we go again, an African American US soldier, but was 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.640 ended up in an orphanage in Bavaria and was adopted 0:09:42.640 --> 0:09:45.440 at the age of four by a German couple. And 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:50.160 so he and for Briests have something in common. There 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:55.400 are two black men in the nineteen seventies growing up 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:59.840 in these not completely white cultures but kind of devoid 0:09:59.840 --> 0:10:03.280 of lot of black culture at least, facing racism from 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:07.480 classmates and stuff like that. And they bonded over this. 0:10:07.960 --> 0:10:10.560 I think it was Rob who talked about finally in 0:10:10.600 --> 0:10:14.240 his teenage years, Michael Jackson became such a big deal 0:10:14.679 --> 0:10:17.120 that all all of a sudden, like you know, even 0:10:17.160 --> 0:10:19.120 where he was in Germany, it became kind of trendy 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:21.760 to be black, and he wasn't like it's picked on, 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:27.640 I guess. But super handsome guy was a model obviously 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:31.440 very early on in a DJ and a breakdancer, and 0:10:31.559 --> 0:10:34.760 a good enough breakdancer that in nineteen eighty four he 0:10:34.800 --> 0:10:37.920 went to New York for a breakdancing competition, which is 0:10:37.960 --> 0:10:41.480 where he met fab who was there for a dance seminar. 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:45.240 Very fortuitous, yeah, even more like they didn't meet in 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:49.800 New York. Rob decided to fly to LA as part 0:10:49.840 --> 0:10:51.720 of that trip to New York. While he was over 0:10:51.800 --> 0:10:56.400 on the across the Pond, and that's where he met Fabrice. 0:10:56.360 --> 0:10:57.760 All right, in New York. 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.280 Well, he was in New York. They just didn't meet 0:11:00.320 --> 0:11:03.319 in New York. Well, so it was a very fortuitous 0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:06.640 chance meeting. And apparently, you know, they they got along 0:11:06.640 --> 0:11:09.880 and everything. And I saw that they ran into each 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:13.520 other again in Munich. I don't know if they, you know, 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:15.960 kept in touch or anything like that, but either way, 0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:17.920 once they were both back in Munich living in the 0:11:17.920 --> 0:11:21.080 same town together, they basically said, let's join forces and 0:11:21.160 --> 0:11:23.440 really knock the socks off of the people at the 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:24.400 clubs around here. 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:30.120 I'll tell you where they didn't meet. Kansas City, It's true. 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.280 It's like, was it New York or LA? Where else 0:11:33.320 --> 0:11:36.000 could it be? It was not Kansas City, It's true. 0:11:36.240 --> 0:11:39.480 No, or I don't know, what's another place they wouldn't 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:40.119 have met. 0:11:41.040 --> 0:11:44.520 Arlington, Virginia, Topeka. Sure they could have met in Arlington, 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.880 just outside of d C. Yeah, all right, I mean 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.080 it's just right across the river. So what are they 0:11:50.120 --> 0:11:54.560 doing in DC meeting the president? I would guess model 0:11:54.600 --> 0:11:57.040 model you in Yeah, they were doing break dancing for 0:11:57.160 --> 0:12:00.760 Ronald Reagan. All right, model you was a fun little 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:01.880 impro exercise. 0:12:02.040 --> 0:12:07.280 Sure, So, like you said, they met back in Munich. 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:11.040 They would eventually get the attention of Frank Farrion, who 0:12:11.080 --> 0:12:13.320 was obviously kind of I'm sure you like to think 0:12:13.360 --> 0:12:16.880 he knew everybody in that scene in Germany and got 0:12:16.920 --> 0:12:18.959 in touch with them on New Year's Day nineteen eighty eight, 0:12:19.080 --> 0:12:23.760 came together very quickly, brought him to his studio in Frankfurt, 0:12:24.800 --> 0:12:28.120 played them girl. You know it's true. They signed a 0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:31.960 record contract that day, where in which Frank Farrion said, 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:34.640 I will put out at least ten songs a year 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:38.280 by you guys. And as far as Robin fab were concerned, 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:41.280 and I totally believe him, they thought that meant we 0:12:41.320 --> 0:12:44.480 are going to sing these songs, even though they weren't 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:45.240 great singers. 0:12:45.679 --> 0:12:48.079 They also later said that they didn't read the contract, 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.520 and the fact that they met and signed a contract 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:53.120 on New Year's Day in nineteen eighty eight certainly supports that. 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.760 At the very least, they didn't bring any legal counsel 0:12:55.800 --> 0:12:58.640 in to look at it. Yeah, so they just trusted 0:12:58.679 --> 0:13:01.720 Frank Feryon. They had been looking for singing parts. So 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.280 they just assumed that that's what he was saying, We're 0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:07.080 going to make records with you guys. That is not 0:13:07.200 --> 0:13:10.360 what had happened. And by this time Farian already knew 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:12.840 he didn't want Rob or Fab to sing. It wasn't 0:13:12.880 --> 0:13:15.080 like he had them over heard them sing. It was like, 0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:17.600 I've got to figure something else out. Yeah, he was like, 0:13:17.880 --> 0:13:19.960 I love your look, and you guys are going to 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:24.000 be the lip syncing frontman of Millie Vanilli And I'm 0:13:24.040 --> 0:13:25.720 just not going to tell you that at first. 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:30.280 That's right. What he had really done was, as everybody knows, 0:13:30.679 --> 0:13:33.560 I think probably by now, but he hired professional singers 0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:37.240 to record Girl. You know it's true. Some gentlemen by 0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:41.160 the name of Brad Howell and John Davis, former US 0:13:41.160 --> 0:13:44.960 soldiers once again. He met them in Germany when Farian 0:13:45.080 --> 0:13:49.040 was working there. And then another former US soldier, Charles Shaw, 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.600 is a guy who did the rap portion of that song. 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:56.760 Yeah, I was puzzled. I'm like, are they talking about 0:13:57.240 --> 0:13:59.760 They're not talking about them. They have to be speaking 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.560 about that one part where he just suddenly goes like, 0:14:02.800 --> 0:14:04.880 I'm in love with you, girl, you on my mind. 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:07.320 That Yeah, that's what they're calling rap. 0:14:07.840 --> 0:14:10.080 Sure, what else is it? 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:14.320 Like? Rhythmic singing, that's what rap is. Yeah, I don't 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:15.080 know about that one. 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:17.160 Yeah that was the rap part. 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:22.560 Okay, sorry, Charles, you take issue. I guess I did. Definitely, 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.560 I definitely did. Even today, like I'm not looking down 0:14:25.600 --> 0:14:28.760 on Milli Vanilli, like, sure that was not rap? All right, 0:14:28.840 --> 0:14:33.120 Well that Blondie song was more rap than than raping girl, 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:33.800 you know it's true. 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:37.520 Yeah, So at any rate, those three guys did with 0:14:37.600 --> 0:14:41.080 it whatever they did on tape as the real singers, 0:14:41.160 --> 0:14:45.200 slash rappers, slash How did you describe it? Rhythmic talkers, 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:50.280 rhythmic singers, rhythmic singers. But from the get go, it 0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.360 wasn't like, Hey, we're going to be this new band, 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:54.680 We're going to go out on tour. I think Howell 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:56.880 was in his forties and he was like, I'm not 0:14:56.920 --> 0:15:01.880 going to tour farians was It was just Fairian's deal 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:03.880 from the beginning, as I'm going to have these two 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:07.200 super handsome model guys in there, you guys are going 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.760 to sing and they I think they ended up listing 0:15:10.800 --> 0:15:13.000 them as backup singers on the record. The guys who 0:15:13.040 --> 0:15:15.560 really sang it right, and that was just that was 0:15:15.560 --> 0:15:19.280 the arrangement from the beginning to everybody but Robin Fab. 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:24.840 Yes, I'm not sure exactly when they figured out that 0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:27.040 that was that they were not going to be singing. 0:15:28.840 --> 0:15:31.400 I don't know, because when he played them the song Girl, 0:15:31.440 --> 0:15:34.040 you know it's true the demo allegedly it was instrumental 0:15:34.080 --> 0:15:34.720 at that point. 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:36.479 Oh really interesting, Yeah. 0:15:36.240 --> 0:15:38.280 So that it wasn't like he was playing this for 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:39.840 them and saying like, you guys are just going to 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.440 pretend you're doing you're singing this like. I don't know 0:15:42.520 --> 0:15:45.560 when they figured it out, but it didn't take very long. 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:48.880 And just as like a little side note before we 0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:52.440 go take a break. Where did the name Millie Vanilli 0:15:52.480 --> 0:15:53.360 come from? What does it mean? 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:57.200 Chuck Well, who knows. There's a bunch of stories. Robin 0:15:57.240 --> 0:16:01.640 Fab said that it meant pop, positive energy, and Turkish, 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.960 which just isn't true. Sounds like something you would say for, 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:07.320 you know, when you're trying to sell records or whatever. 0:16:07.600 --> 0:16:11.200 But also does the words Millie Vanilli sound Turkish in 0:16:11.240 --> 0:16:12.360 any way, shape or form. 0:16:12.800 --> 0:16:16.040 I don't know Turkish, but it doesn't sound particularly Turkish 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:16.280 to my. 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:17.800 Ninears definitely does not. 0:16:19.160 --> 0:16:22.200 Some people said it was a discotheque in Berlin by 0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:26.920 that name. Some people said Frank Ferring's assistant, Ingrid Siegith 0:16:28.040 --> 0:16:31.320 was her nickname was Milli, And then other people said 0:16:31.360 --> 0:16:33.240 it might have been and I'm not sure about this 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:35.920 at all, but it might have been inspired by Scritty Piliiti, 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.840 the great pop English pop band who is very underrated. 0:16:39.880 --> 0:16:42.640 I think, yeah, they sing that song perfect way. I've 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:45.400 got a perfect way to make the girls go crazy. 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:47.920 It's gritty, pility is great, it is, and that's a 0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:49.960 good song. But I just wanted to take this moment 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:54.200 because there's so few opportunities to express my opinion of 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.200 the greatest song of the eighties, The entire eighties, the 0:16:57.320 --> 0:16:59.880 entire decade is owner of a lonely heart. 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:02.800 Yes, oh, I just heard that song. 0:17:03.480 --> 0:17:05.120 I can. It's one of those ones that like, I'll 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.399 hear it on the radio or in the mall or something, 0:17:07.440 --> 0:17:10.040 because you know there's still malls and I will never 0:17:10.080 --> 0:17:12.040 be like, oh this song. I can listen to that 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:15.040 song every single time it comes on. Yeah, it is 0:17:15.119 --> 0:17:18.440 so well done. It's so complex, but it's so catchy. 0:17:18.720 --> 0:17:22.560 It's so well played. It's just the perfect song from 0:17:22.560 --> 0:17:23.080 the eighties. 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:27.800 Yeah, movie Yourself, A great start, Yeah, great end, Greade. 0:17:27.560 --> 0:17:29.960 Middle, Yeah, the whole shebang. I love it. 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:32.720 I liked the whole album. What was it was a 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:34.320 series of numbers. I wanted to say nine to two 0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:35.080 and O, but that can't be. 0:17:35.200 --> 0:17:39.320 Oh you ate one two, I can't remember. I liked 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:40.440 it though. They had that great song. 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:42.000 I'll leave it from that record too. 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.160 That's literally the only song I've heard off of that record. 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:48.440 That might be the only Yes song I've ever heard. 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:51.240 It doesn't matter. It's still the greatest song of the eighties. 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:55.080 You've heard roundabout probably does it go round about? 0:17:56.119 --> 0:17:59.360 You've got to lose control on the round about. 0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:03.520 All Right, we're gonna take a break and we'll talk 0:18:03.560 --> 0:18:06.439 about the deception right after this. 0:18:32.040 --> 0:18:36.000 Okay, Chuck, So in April nineteen eighty eight, you said 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:38.840 that this all happened very quick. It's worth pointing out 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:44.199 this entire shebang, especially starting from when they reached the 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.160 United States till their downfall was less than two years. 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:49.959 This was all compressed in just a couple of years. 0:18:50.520 --> 0:18:53.080 And the whole thing started in April nineteen eighty eight, 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:58.760 and after Frank Farrion had his completed recording of Girl 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.520 Robin Fab started touring Spain in France, so they were 0:19:04.560 --> 0:19:07.760 promoting it. They were singing this right, so they by 0:19:07.800 --> 0:19:11.800 this point Farian had said, Hey, you guys, just go 0:19:11.800 --> 0:19:14.640 go out and just, you know, lip sync to this one, 0:19:14.960 --> 0:19:17.040 and then when we do the next album, you guys 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:19.680 can actually sing, and that was one of the big 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:21.720 reasons that they bought into it. So by this time, 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:23.679 by April nineteen eighty eight, they were well aware what 0:19:23.760 --> 0:19:24.239 was going on. 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.120 Yeah, and by the way, dear listener, if you hear 0:19:27.160 --> 0:19:30.000 a gentle thudding in the background, I don't know if 0:19:30.040 --> 0:19:32.359 it's coming through, but it's not me banging the desk. 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.200 There are some construction going on next door, and I 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.240 can't control these people. They basically said, I'm sorry. 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:40.520 They have minds of their own. 0:19:40.800 --> 0:19:42.359 They have minds and they have a job to do, 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:44.600 so they're doing it. But you may hear like a 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:46.879 low level bump every now and then, so I can't 0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:48.719 hear anything all right, So maybe it's not coming through. 0:19:48.760 --> 0:19:53.040 I don't know. But anyway, back to the story, this 0:19:53.160 --> 0:19:58.159 song was big in Germany. Like you said, did you 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.119 say that I didn't know. Okay, it was big in Germany, 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.879 became a number one hit in Germany, and you know, 0:20:04.119 --> 0:20:06.520 was like sort of a thing in Europe early on 0:20:06.760 --> 0:20:09.840 before it got to America, and right out of the bat, 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:12.960 right off the bat, out of the gate in Europe 0:20:13.040 --> 0:20:17.439 when this song became a hit, Shaw, the original rapper 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:21.080 guy who Josh doesn't think raps no, basically came out 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:23.480 to the media in Europe and was like, by the way, 0:20:23.640 --> 0:20:28.240 that's me And then that got shut down really really quickly. 0:20:28.560 --> 0:20:31.240 He says it's because he was threatened by Frank Farrion. 0:20:31.320 --> 0:20:35.239 Frank Farrian says, no, I paid him like mid you know, 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:37.720 one hundred and fifty grand to keep his mouth shut. 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:40.439 But at any rate, this is the first time that 0:20:40.560 --> 0:20:43.200 like the cat was out of the bag a little bit, 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:47.080 and rumors were kind of going around to the point 0:20:47.119 --> 0:20:49.920 basically where on a radio station in Europe they had 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:52.760 a DJ that was like, hey, like, you guys, are 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:55.399 you really singing this? Like sing on the air to 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.320 prove that you're really good singers? 0:20:57.520 --> 0:21:01.119 Right? I saw this described as by the time you know, 0:21:01.160 --> 0:21:04.600 it finally came out, very poorly kept secret in the 0:21:04.680 --> 0:21:07.880 music industry. Yeah, but that is definitely where it would 0:21:07.920 --> 0:21:12.159 have started for sure. Also, people who met them and 0:21:12.280 --> 0:21:14.760 were in the music industry where like, these guys did 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:20.720 not sing that they were talked about as Hans and Franz. 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.879 They sounded like Hans and Franz, is how one interviewer 0:21:23.920 --> 0:21:27.720 put it. Because they have very thick European accents, and 0:21:27.800 --> 0:21:34.040 apparently Rob no Fab. His English was so shaky that 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:36.639 he just usually didn't talk very much. He'd interject a 0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:39.680 word here or there, but Rob spoke for them most 0:21:39.680 --> 0:21:40.240 of the time. 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:45.320 Yeah, I mean in their favor, Like the way someone 0:21:45.400 --> 0:21:49.080 sings is not often not the way that they talk, right. 0:21:49.880 --> 0:21:54.840 But it was a fairly thinly veiled scheme, you know. 0:21:54.920 --> 0:21:57.239 It's just like a lot of people early on were like, 0:21:57.600 --> 0:21:59.960 something's not adding up here when you interview. 0:21:59.640 --> 0:22:01.840 These guys, right, exactly, all right. 0:22:01.920 --> 0:22:04.199 So Rob and Fab are still beating this drum, and 0:22:04.240 --> 0:22:06.360 this is something that you'll see as a team through 0:22:06.359 --> 0:22:10.040 this whole thing. They never ever stopped asking to sing 0:22:10.080 --> 0:22:13.320 their own stuff. Very important pleading with Frank Ferry and 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:15.760 to let them sing their stuff. They really wanted to 0:22:15.800 --> 0:22:18.440 do it. I get the sense that they didn't feel 0:22:18.480 --> 0:22:21.720 great about the arrangement at all, and that they wanted 0:22:21.760 --> 0:22:23.520 to sing. They wanted to they thought they were good 0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:24.600 singers and they wanted to sing. 0:22:24.840 --> 0:22:28.280 They also felt like they were trapped in I think 0:22:28.440 --> 0:22:32.480 Rob Pudder fab put it as a golden prison. Oh yeah, 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:37.720 they've been having twenty thousand dollars advances, fuzzy handcuffs from 0:22:37.840 --> 0:22:41.200 Frank Ferry and very early on, and these guys like 0:22:41.280 --> 0:22:45.560 to party. There's no two ways around that. So these 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:48.199 two twenty five year old good looking honks who were 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:51.240 suddenly kind of they started out on the club scene 0:22:51.240 --> 0:22:53.399 and now they were the most popular dudes at the 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.840 clubs in Munich with money twenty grand each. Yeah, it 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.639 didn't stick around for very long. So they would have 0:23:01.720 --> 0:23:05.639 owed that back to Frank Ferran and they were like, well, 0:23:05.920 --> 0:23:08.560 now we're really stuck, Like we're not only kind of 0:23:08.600 --> 0:23:13.280 looped into this lie, we're financially like obligate. 0:23:12.880 --> 0:23:17.199 Into this yea, yeah, absolutely, I think as again, like 0:23:17.240 --> 0:23:19.240 you get a lot of stories from the people involved. 0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:24.480 Rob said later on that while this was happening in 0:23:24.520 --> 0:23:26.560 the early days, he got in touch with people from 0:23:26.600 --> 0:23:29.480 Boni m and they said, by the way, this Frank 0:23:29.480 --> 0:23:32.760 Farring guy's a rat and he wouldn't let us sing, 0:23:33.119 --> 0:23:34.840 and he sang the songs and it was all a 0:23:34.880 --> 0:23:38.400 big scam. And so I think early on Rob sort 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:40.960 of saw the writing on the walls, like we're in 0:23:41.000 --> 0:23:43.320 this deal where we're probably not going to get to sing. 0:23:44.280 --> 0:23:47.720 But their star was rising. In early nineteen eighty nine 0:23:48.240 --> 0:23:50.359 is when they hit the United States when they signed 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:55.600 with Arista Records division of BMG. Who was the president 0:23:55.640 --> 0:23:58.840 of BMG at the time was Clive Davis, legendary producer. 0:23:59.440 --> 0:24:00.119 There's a really a. 0:24:00.160 --> 0:24:02.400 Documentary on him, by the way, that I highly recommend. 0:24:02.720 --> 0:24:05.520 I think he was the president of Arista. 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:07.560 Oh, I thought he was a president of BMG. 0:24:07.880 --> 0:24:10.119 I don't think so. I got the I thought he 0:24:10.160 --> 0:24:11.680 was Arista, but yeah, you might be right. 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:14.760 Well either way, Clive Davis is a legend no matter 0:24:14.800 --> 0:24:18.360 who he works for. Yeah, and great documentary on him. 0:24:18.480 --> 0:24:21.119 And they signed them on the strength of Girl you 0:24:21.160 --> 0:24:23.879 Know It's True, released it as a single at the 0:24:23.960 --> 0:24:29.000 end of January nineteen eighty nine, and then repackaged the 0:24:29.080 --> 0:24:32.000 European version of the album for the United States as 0:24:32.359 --> 0:24:35.359 the album title Girl you Know It's True. Did some remixes, 0:24:35.440 --> 0:24:38.080 took some songs off, put some on, and then released 0:24:38.080 --> 0:24:42.240 the full album. And the dates are important here because 0:24:42.240 --> 0:24:45.280 of how quickly it was in March of nineteen eighty nine. 0:24:45.840 --> 0:24:48.960 Okay, so they the singles released at the end of 0:24:49.040 --> 0:24:51.440 January nineteen eighty nine. The album comes out in March 0:24:51.440 --> 0:24:54.520 of nineteen eighty nine. And I referred earlier to Girl 0:24:54.560 --> 0:24:57.439 you Know It's True as their one of their second 0:24:57.600 --> 0:25:01.840 biggest hits. It only reached number two on the Billboard charts. 0:25:01.960 --> 0:25:05.040 I say only, but it's kind of surprising because that's 0:25:05.080 --> 0:25:07.720 the one that everybody thinks of with Milli Vanilli. Maybe 0:25:07.720 --> 0:25:10.399 it's because that was everyone's introduction to it. But it 0:25:10.480 --> 0:25:14.119 hit number two in April. So the following month overall, 0:25:14.200 --> 0:25:19.760 that album worldwide sold eleven million copies. Mm hm. It 0:25:19.840 --> 0:25:23.720 is so hard to sell eleven million copies of a record, 0:25:24.240 --> 0:25:27.120 It's astounding. And seven million of those copies were sold 0:25:27.119 --> 0:25:28.520 in the United States alone. 0:25:28.960 --> 0:25:31.640 Yeah, so they had a number two hit in April. 0:25:31.960 --> 0:25:34.240 They had a number one with baby Don't Forget My 0:25:34.320 --> 0:25:37.800 Number in July, had another number one with Girl I'm 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:39.320 Gonna Miss You in September. 0:25:39.840 --> 0:25:43.360 You may maybe watch that video. I watched it too, 0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:46.000 just like an hour ago. She's like, look, when you 0:25:46.040 --> 0:25:50.480 watch the part where he goes, oh, I'll think of 0:25:50.520 --> 0:25:53.439 it later, but there's a there's like a refrain that 0:25:53.520 --> 0:25:56.000 he keeps hitting throughout the video, and he does not 0:25:56.280 --> 0:25:58.879 lip sync it correctly one time in the whole video. 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:02.600 Yeah, well music videos too, though a lot of that lipsing. 0:26:02.640 --> 0:26:05.119 He wasn't great, to be fair, true, but this was 0:26:05.359 --> 0:26:08.159 the point. Yeah, And I guess in hindsight, you're looking 0:26:08.240 --> 0:26:10.199 for it, so you could see it. But yeah, she 0:26:10.280 --> 0:26:13.359 seemed to have noticed it pretty early on and then 0:26:13.359 --> 0:26:13.840 blame it on. 0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:17.560 The rain was their final number one in November, and 0:26:17.600 --> 0:26:20.160 then All or Nothing was a number four in February 0:26:20.200 --> 0:26:23.920 of ninety So they had number one hits in I'm Sorry, 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:27.960 number two hit in April, then number one hits in July, September, November, 0:26:28.000 --> 0:26:30.560 and then a number four in February of the next year. Right, 0:26:31.160 --> 0:26:34.280 that's as hot as any band in the history of music. 0:26:34.560 --> 0:26:37.840 Yes, dude. Five singles released, all five in the top 0:26:37.960 --> 0:26:41.840 five Billboard charts, three number ones. It's astounding. Like I 0:26:41.920 --> 0:26:43.879 knew Milli Vanilli was big, but when you see it 0:26:43.920 --> 0:26:46.560 on paper like that, uh huh, Like you said, like 0:26:47.240 --> 0:26:49.800 there's very few people that have ever matched that kind 0:26:49.800 --> 0:26:53.040 of thing. And they were just man the definition of 0:26:53.080 --> 0:26:55.399 a flash in the pan. They just came on and 0:26:55.440 --> 0:26:58.560 blew up and blew out in no time at all. 0:26:59.080 --> 0:27:04.120 Tune in, turn out, turnout, tune in. What is it? Okay? 0:27:04.240 --> 0:27:08.240 Yeah, So they figured that they would be better served 0:27:08.280 --> 0:27:11.320 and probably a little more protected and have more leverage 0:27:11.320 --> 0:27:14.119 if they weren't in Germany anymore under the literal thumb 0:27:14.119 --> 0:27:17.919 of Frank Ferian. So they relocated to Beverly Hills just 0:27:17.960 --> 0:27:21.080 a few months later in June of that year. They 0:27:21.200 --> 0:27:22.680 this is my senior of high school, by the way, 0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:24.280 just to put that perspective. 0:27:23.960 --> 0:27:27.920 Right, I was thirteen going into I was this eighth. 0:27:27.680 --> 0:27:30.280 Grade, okay, And by this time I was listening to 0:27:30.880 --> 0:27:33.320 The Cure and Ram and the Smiths and Excess and 0:27:33.359 --> 0:27:35.240 all that stuff. Like this is when I was like 0:27:35.640 --> 0:27:38.280 starting in like eighty six, eighty seven on, I started 0:27:38.280 --> 0:27:41.920 getting into like my little alternative thing. Cool, but I, 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:45.040 like everyone knew this stuff. You couldn't escape. But I 0:27:45.040 --> 0:27:47.760 was an MTV kid, so I knew all these songs. 0:27:47.800 --> 0:27:49.880 It wasn't my thing, but like I can sing them 0:27:49.880 --> 0:27:50.399 all still. 0:27:50.720 --> 0:27:53.240 The whole world was singing Millie Vanilli at the time, 0:27:53.760 --> 0:27:56.399 but baby, are you kidding me? Yeah? 0:27:56.480 --> 0:27:58.760 So they sign and this is a pretty key detail too, 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:02.560 with a very big manager, a music manager named Sandy 0:28:02.600 --> 0:28:05.960 Gallon of Gallen Morey Associates and. 0:28:06.000 --> 0:28:06.960 You remember him right? 0:28:07.960 --> 0:28:08.920 Oh wait, where was that from? 0:28:09.440 --> 0:28:11.720 Is Dolly Parton's manager who truss over? 0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:14.120 Yeah? Yeah, I knew that sounded familiar. 0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:16.080 He managed Milli Vanilli and Dolly Parton. 0:28:17.160 --> 0:28:17.920 Who else do you need? 0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:18.760 Yeah? Really? 0:28:19.680 --> 0:28:25.120 All right? So nineteen eighty nine they have blown up. 0:28:25.160 --> 0:28:30.280 They became part of the first Club MTV tour alongside 0:28:30.880 --> 0:28:34.440 was not Was Information Society, Tone Loake and Paula Abdul. 0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:38.320 It's a good tour, good tour. But like the suspicion 0:28:38.400 --> 0:28:40.960 that started in Europe followed them here, and like we 0:28:41.040 --> 0:28:44.800 mentioned with the interviews and their accents and broken English, like, 0:28:45.240 --> 0:28:47.600 things started to go a little south here as well, 0:28:47.920 --> 0:28:50.560 to the point where, like just a few months after 0:28:50.600 --> 0:28:53.320 they came here, they stopped doing radio and TV interviews. 0:28:53.400 --> 0:28:56.440 Yeah, they would only do print. But ironically they were 0:28:56.480 --> 0:28:59.000 allowed to use their voices for an appearance on a 0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:03.200 Super Mario three cartoon where they they play themselves. But 0:29:03.200 --> 0:29:06.520 they're kidnapped by Bowser's daughter and turned into accountants because 0:29:06.520 --> 0:29:09.800 they won't performed for her. And if you go watch 0:29:09.880 --> 0:29:12.440 that clips of that that cartoon, you're like, wow, those 0:29:12.480 --> 0:29:15.520 guys really did not sound anything like they sounded on 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:16.160 the record. 0:29:17.040 --> 0:29:20.640 I saw a clip. I'm sure we both watched like 0:29:20.680 --> 0:29:22.240 tons of clips, but there was one clip where they 0:29:22.280 --> 0:29:24.400 were trying to prove they could sing and they did 0:29:24.400 --> 0:29:30.080 this little a cappella harmony bit and they were just flat. 0:29:30.280 --> 0:29:30.600 It was. 0:29:30.760 --> 0:29:34.240 It wasn't like they were completely tone deaf or anything, 0:29:34.800 --> 0:29:37.440 and fab actually can sing a little bit. I think 0:29:37.520 --> 0:29:40.040 Rob couldn't sing that great, huh, But they you know, 0:29:40.120 --> 0:29:43.800 they were quote unquote harmonizing and sort of were like 0:29:44.040 --> 0:29:45.760 did you get a load of that? But it was 0:29:45.880 --> 0:29:46.720 super flat. 0:29:47.200 --> 0:29:48.520 It was. It was not great. 0:29:48.920 --> 0:29:52.880 But I think like producers have done more with less 0:29:53.080 --> 0:29:54.920 with auto tune and all that stuff. For sure. 0:29:55.080 --> 0:29:57.680 That is a big thing. That's that's something to kind 0:29:57.720 --> 0:30:00.480 of like put it into context, like this is this 0:30:00.560 --> 0:30:04.320 is maybe the world's entrade to what producers exactly did 0:30:04.360 --> 0:30:07.800 and in a way kind of established it is okay 0:30:07.840 --> 0:30:13.640 to start messing with the talent's abilities. Yeah, it made it. 0:30:13.400 --> 0:30:16.800 It was the inflection point where it went from an 0:30:16.840 --> 0:30:21.600 emphasis on talent and creativity to an ability to package 0:30:21.640 --> 0:30:23.960 an artists and sell them. And a lot of people 0:30:23.960 --> 0:30:29.080 blame MTV for this happening in MTV says, that's absurd, right, So. 0:30:29.000 --> 0:30:32.040 We have to talk about what happened in July, and 0:30:32.080 --> 0:30:35.280 again this is they had four of their hits after 0:30:35.400 --> 0:30:38.239 July of that year, despite the fact that at a 0:30:38.320 --> 0:30:43.160 concert in Bristol, Connecticut, there were lip syncing very famously. 0:30:43.360 --> 0:30:47.280 It skipped or it got hung up or whatever. Girl, 0:30:47.320 --> 0:30:49.960 you know it's true. There's a very brief clip on 0:30:50.000 --> 0:30:53.400 it from a VH one special I Think Behind the 0:30:53.480 --> 0:30:58.200 Music where although Livia says that Variety said it wasn't 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:01.680 as dramatic as go you know it's, girl, you know 0:31:01.800 --> 0:31:04.320 it's but that's what it showed in the video, and 0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.280 they they didn't know how to handle it. They if 0:31:07.280 --> 0:31:09.480 they would have ridden it out, they probably would have 0:31:09.480 --> 0:31:12.960 been okay because a lot of like big dancing performers 0:31:12.960 --> 0:31:16.120 lip sync and everyone kind of knows this at least 0:31:16.160 --> 0:31:19.000 parts of their shows. If they would have stayed up there, 0:31:19.360 --> 0:31:22.239 they might have been okay. But they freaked out and 0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:25.760 Rob ran off stage. In a panic, basically. 0:31:25.480 --> 0:31:29.600 Yeah, totally. And it was Downtown Julie Brown, who I 0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:32.640 guess was touring with the club MTV tour, oh yeah, 0:31:32.640 --> 0:31:34.960 who talked him into going back out. And I was 0:31:35.000 --> 0:31:38.080 reading a Variety article written in twenty twenty about this 0:31:38.520 --> 0:31:42.360 and they referred to her as Julie Downtown Brown. And 0:31:42.400 --> 0:31:45.040 I suspect that article was written by a millennial. 0:31:45.640 --> 0:31:49.320 Yeah, who probably doesn't even know whabbah blabblah blabbah. 0:31:49.160 --> 0:31:52.320 Julie down dumb. Do you remember that? Yeah? Totally. 0:31:52.520 --> 0:31:54.240 I forgot all about that and it just popped into 0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:55.760 my head. Downtown Julie Brown. 0:31:55.960 --> 0:31:57.640 Yeah. And what's funny is one of the reasons why 0:31:57.760 --> 0:31:59.600 she went by Downtown Julie Brown is because there was 0:31:59.640 --> 0:32:02.640 another are equally famous Julie Brown on MTV at the 0:32:02.680 --> 0:32:07.240 same time. Remember the redhead of Julie Brown or kind 0:32:07.280 --> 0:32:12.400 of a weird I feel like Phoebe Hermann adjacent type character. 0:32:13.120 --> 0:32:14.640 You're not thinking of Judy Tanuda, are you? 0:32:14.920 --> 0:32:18.800 No? I'm not, okay, look up Julie Brown. All right, okay, 0:32:19.240 --> 0:32:22.520 I will fine. You have with you right now. Yeah, 0:32:22.680 --> 0:32:24.000 I'll keep talking if you want to. 0:32:24.320 --> 0:32:26.960 Yeah, go ahead, take this next bit so that was 0:32:27.000 --> 0:32:28.040 like a big deal. 0:32:27.920 --> 0:32:31.640 That Bristol, Connecticut show to them. They felt like that 0:32:31.760 --> 0:32:34.080 that was the beginning of the end, and even still 0:32:34.120 --> 0:32:36.280 in later interviews they would point to that as like 0:32:36.360 --> 0:32:38.280 that was the beginning of the end of Millie Vanilli. 0:32:38.320 --> 0:32:42.200 They knew that this this act that they've been carrying 0:32:42.320 --> 0:32:47.520 on was unraveling, basically, and they later said that they 0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:54.320 were unhappy, nervous, scared, stressed the entire time, and they 0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:56.960 kept partying. A lot of people say that they kept 0:32:57.000 --> 0:32:59.479 partying because they were so stressed. I don't know if 0:32:59.520 --> 0:33:03.440 that's true not, but they it's understandable that they would 0:33:03.480 --> 0:33:05.320 have been kind of stressed. 0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:09.400 By the way Julie Brown. I totally recognize her now, sure, 0:33:09.760 --> 0:33:12.000 and that's who I was thinking of. And I might 0:33:12.040 --> 0:33:14.400 have said Julie t Nuda. It was Judy Tanuda, the comedian. 0:33:14.560 --> 0:33:15.400 Yeah you said Judy. 0:33:15.480 --> 0:33:18.440 I think I did. Okay, I think I thought that 0:33:18.640 --> 0:33:21.920 was Judy Tananuda. But I totally remember Julie Brown now. 0:33:22.080 --> 0:33:25.200 But she's similar in character, not quite as like over 0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:27.440 the top as Judy Tanuda, but similar in. 0:33:27.480 --> 0:33:31.320 A flamboyant Yeah, yeah, for sure, she was great. I 0:33:31.480 --> 0:33:32.920 wasn't listening to you Where Were You? 0:33:33.680 --> 0:33:35.800 I was talking about how they were stressed and nervous 0:33:35.840 --> 0:33:37.479 all the time and now they felt like this thing 0:33:37.600 --> 0:33:40.240 was really unraveling, and that they called the Bristol, Connecticut 0:33:40.280 --> 0:33:41.400 show the beginning of the end. 0:33:42.160 --> 0:33:45.280 Yeah, for sure. So while this is going on, like 0:33:45.480 --> 0:33:48.440 Millie Vanilli is having all this chart success, but they 0:33:48.480 --> 0:33:52.560 were never a critical darling. No, in fact, they were 0:33:53.440 --> 0:33:55.479 and I think people for sure piled on a lot 0:33:55.600 --> 0:33:59.520 more after the Secret came out, but even before that, 0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:02.240 they became a little bit of a symbol of what 0:34:02.680 --> 0:34:08.440 serious music critics kind of thought was the unraveling of 0:34:08.560 --> 0:34:11.279 pop music and how shallow it was and how like 0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:15.800 overproduced and arranged everything was and kind of the worst 0:34:16.840 --> 0:34:20.399 version of what pop music ultimately became before it kind 0:34:20.400 --> 0:34:21.240 of course corrected. 0:34:21.440 --> 0:34:23.760 Yeah, And a lot of that came from the usual 0:34:23.880 --> 0:34:28.239 suspects the rock community, who yeah, arranged themselves as like 0:34:28.280 --> 0:34:31.120 the arbiters of what was music and what was not. Yeah. 0:34:31.600 --> 0:34:33.760 And now that we're at this part, I really regret 0:34:34.040 --> 0:34:35.960 talking about whether that was rap or not and the 0:34:36.000 --> 0:34:39.120 girl you know it's true song because it's essentially the 0:34:39.200 --> 0:34:42.400 same thing. But yes, Milli Vanilli was an easy target, 0:34:42.480 --> 0:34:46.800 even before they were outed as frauds, right, Yeah, so 0:34:47.000 --> 0:34:49.120 I think that made it all the more sweet for 0:34:49.239 --> 0:34:52.200 the people who were rooting against them to have their 0:34:52.360 --> 0:34:56.720 wildest dreams come true and Milli Vanilli be outed as frauds, 0:34:56.840 --> 0:35:00.160 Like there are people rooting against them again though, like 0:35:00.840 --> 0:35:03.439 this is a this is a really complicating factor, Chuck, 0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:07.879 how much of Millie Vanilli's popularity then, if the music 0:35:08.000 --> 0:35:10.440 wasn't that good, or you know, if you were a 0:35:10.560 --> 0:35:14.680 music critic, how much of Milli Vanilli's like success came 0:35:14.800 --> 0:35:17.520 from Robin Fab and the work that they were doing. 0:35:17.840 --> 0:35:21.560 They definitely did some work. At the very peak, they 0:35:21.640 --> 0:35:25.319 did one hundred and seven cities in an eight month tour. 0:35:25.680 --> 0:35:29.080 That's a lot of work. And also people loved to 0:35:29.360 --> 0:35:31.359 let like their look, They thought they were hot. They 0:35:31.400 --> 0:35:35.200 loved their dances, that that little dance move where they 0:35:35.320 --> 0:35:38.719 faced one another and just like kind of ran in 0:35:38.840 --> 0:35:42.839 place in front of everyone was doing that. Everyone did 0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:45.680 that dance move, whether they were serious or not, everyone 0:35:45.840 --> 0:35:47.520 was doing that dance bood. So, how much of their 0:35:47.560 --> 0:35:50.759 popularity can you you know, ascribe to Rob and Fab 0:35:50.800 --> 0:35:52.000 And I would say quite a bit. 0:35:52.280 --> 0:35:55.520 Oh absolutely, I mean one hundred and seven shows. I'm 0:35:56.040 --> 0:35:58.440 fairly tired from our big three show swing that we 0:35:58.600 --> 0:35:58.960 just did. 0:35:59.400 --> 0:36:01.560 Yeah, by the way, way, thank you DC Boston in 0:36:01.640 --> 0:36:03.440 Toronto for fun times. 0:36:03.719 --> 0:36:06.759 Yeah, it was great shows. These guys also didn't do 0:36:06.920 --> 0:36:10.319 themselves a lot of favors. I think, in particular Rob, 0:36:10.920 --> 0:36:13.560 who was a little bit more vocal, just because I 0:36:13.600 --> 0:36:16.959 think he felt more comfortable speaking English in front of microphones, 0:36:18.440 --> 0:36:20.680 and I you know, looking back though, like the guy 0:36:20.800 --> 0:36:24.200 was probably scared and defensive. But he would say some 0:36:24.320 --> 0:36:26.400 kind of dumb stuff sometimes like in an article or 0:36:26.440 --> 0:36:29.239 a lest stuff that wouldn't do him any favors. I 0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:31.560 can't remember which magazine, but when I think it's time, 0:36:32.160 --> 0:36:35.239 there's a quote here where he says, musically, we're more 0:36:35.320 --> 0:36:39.920 talented than any Bob Dylan. Musically, we're more talented than 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:43.640 Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger. His lines are not clear. He 0:36:43.760 --> 0:36:46.800 don't know how he should produce a sound. I'm the 0:36:46.920 --> 0:36:49.520 new modern rock and roll, I'm the new Elvis. 0:36:50.280 --> 0:36:54.600 So Rob said that that was wildly taking out of context, 0:36:54.680 --> 0:36:59.600 that he didn't say anything like that. The clothes direct quote, right, 0:36:59.680 --> 0:37:02.200 I know, But the closest that he says he said 0:37:02.440 --> 0:37:04.920 was that, you know, Elvis was huge in his generation 0:37:05.120 --> 0:37:09.360 and they're huge in their generation. Whether he was misquoted 0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:15.080 or not, this is a potential pr disaster for this 0:37:15.960 --> 0:37:22.240 obviously short lived group. So everybody involved, the record label, 0:37:22.520 --> 0:37:26.000 Ferry and their managers all decided that they needed to 0:37:26.480 --> 0:37:29.000 go on a press tour to basically, you know, explain 0:37:29.080 --> 0:37:31.879 this away. And then somebody else decided that they needed 0:37:31.920 --> 0:37:36.040 to work a medley of The Beatles, the Rolling Stones 0:37:36.080 --> 0:37:41.040 and Bob Dylan into their show and they were going 0:37:41.120 --> 0:37:43.200 to go forward on it, and Robin fab or the 0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:45.080 two that had the sense to be like, that's a 0:37:45.239 --> 0:37:47.319 terrible idea, We're not going to do that, So they 0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:49.600 dropped that. But that was how they were going to 0:37:50.719 --> 0:37:53.880 show that they didn't think they were bigger than The Stones, 0:37:55.360 --> 0:37:58.440 the Beatles and Bob Dylan by doing a medley of 0:37:58.520 --> 0:38:02.560 their songs at their lives. Great idea, I think so too. 0:38:03.000 --> 0:38:06.320 All right, let's take our second break and we're gonna 0:38:06.360 --> 0:38:08.640 come back and talk about the rest right after this. 0:38:34.400 --> 0:38:38.760 All right, So here's the question, which is and Lvia 0:38:38.840 --> 0:38:41.160 titles this section that who knew what when, because that's 0:38:41.200 --> 0:38:44.920 sort of the big question. So Rob and Fab, their manager, 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:49.239 Sandy Gallon, Clive Davis, and it seems like a lot 0:38:49.400 --> 0:38:52.319 of people on the inside in the music scene knew 0:38:52.440 --> 0:38:56.120 this was going on in the summer of nineteen eighty nine, 0:38:56.280 --> 0:38:58.960 like while they were putting out these songs and having 0:38:59.000 --> 0:39:02.799 these big hits. There's a guy named Todd Headley who 0:39:03.440 --> 0:39:05.719 used to work for Milli Vanilly. I believe he ended 0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:09.120 up being their manager at a certain point afterward when 0:39:09.120 --> 0:39:12.160 they were just Robin Fab. But he said, you know, 0:39:12.600 --> 0:39:16.799 everyone that was connected to this knew this. I don't 0:39:16.880 --> 0:39:21.080 know like necessarily when, but everybody knew this. As far 0:39:21.160 --> 0:39:23.320 as Arista goes. They said, well, we didn't know it. 0:39:23.719 --> 0:39:26.320 Frank Ferrian I guess I bet you there was some 0:39:26.600 --> 0:39:29.239 handshake deal or something going on. Yeah, because he took 0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:32.080 He basically came out very vehemently saying that like, no, 0:39:32.120 --> 0:39:36.520 I Rista didn't know anything about this, right, But everyone 0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:38.520 knew basically on the inside. 0:39:38.719 --> 0:39:41.279 Yes, But all of those people publicly said that they 0:39:41.400 --> 0:39:43.640 did not know. I mean, can you imagine the record 0:39:43.680 --> 0:39:46.319 company being like, we had no idea. These guys didn't 0:39:46.360 --> 0:39:49.279 sing on the on the tracks. Yeah, but that's what 0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:53.480 they said. So and the whole time. Remember, just bear 0:39:53.520 --> 0:39:56.480 in mind they kept trying to fight to sing, like 0:39:56.680 --> 0:39:59.799 their whole sideline was trying to convince Frank Ferry unto 0:39:59.840 --> 0:40:02.719 let them sing on the next album. Right, And so 0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:07.680 finally I believe that the whole thing came to a head. 0:40:09.080 --> 0:40:11.200 Oh yeah, that was evidence. I'm sorry. There was evidence 0:40:11.239 --> 0:40:15.279 that shows that at least Clive Davis from Arista knew 0:40:15.840 --> 0:40:18.200 that this was going on, because they seed him on 0:40:18.520 --> 0:40:21.319 letters from their lawyers demanding that Frank Ferry and let 0:40:21.400 --> 0:40:25.520 them sing on the next album. So if Clive Davis 0:40:25.600 --> 0:40:27.279 wasn't like, what do you mean on the next album? 0:40:27.320 --> 0:40:29.040 Why wouldn't you let him sing? If he didn't look 0:40:29.080 --> 0:40:32.200 into it, that's so bad. The implication is that he 0:40:32.200 --> 0:40:34.160 wouldn't have looked into it because he knew exactly what 0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:34.759 that meant. 0:40:35.200 --> 0:40:35.319 Right. 0:40:35.760 --> 0:40:37.360 So the whole thing came to a head with the 0:40:37.520 --> 0:40:39.479 nineteen ninety Grammy ceremony, right. 0:40:39.960 --> 0:40:43.440 That's right. They were, you know, obviously going to be 0:40:43.520 --> 0:40:47.839 a strong contender for Best New Artists. As the story goes, 0:40:48.239 --> 0:40:50.680 Clive Davis did not want to submit them because he 0:40:50.719 --> 0:40:54.400 knew it was a fraud, but Sandy Gallon and the 0:40:54.480 --> 0:40:57.759 management company said nope, We're going to submit him. They 0:40:57.880 --> 0:41:00.279 won Best of course, they won Best New Art Artists 0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:03.360 at the Grammy who else would and they performed at 0:41:03.400 --> 0:41:06.000 the ceremony, lip synced at the ceremony. 0:41:06.120 --> 0:41:08.920 They owned the Grammys that year, they did, and. 0:41:08.960 --> 0:41:11.200 The producer the Grammys was basically later on, just like, 0:41:11.280 --> 0:41:13.560 you know, everybody really sings. Is one of the few 0:41:13.600 --> 0:41:16.040 times in forty years of doing this that I've let 0:41:16.080 --> 0:41:19.160 someone lip sync. But that is where things kind of 0:41:19.880 --> 0:41:24.319 went downhill. I think the Grammys later said, like, all 0:41:24.400 --> 0:41:26.640 you had to do was put somewhere on the record, 0:41:26.800 --> 0:41:31.160 even in the smallest print, like Millie Vanilli is unless 0:41:31.200 --> 0:41:34.120 the original singers, But like, we can't let you keep 0:41:34.160 --> 0:41:36.560 these Grammys, So we got to take them back. 0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:39.879 Right, And they actually fully intended to. Apparently the day 0:41:40.040 --> 0:41:45.359 after the Grammys said we want our Grammys back, Michael Green, 0:41:45.600 --> 0:41:47.839 the president of it, said we want our Grammys back, 0:41:47.920 --> 0:41:51.040 something along those lines. They had already had a press 0:41:51.080 --> 0:41:53.160 comfort schedule where they intended to give them back. 0:41:53.440 --> 0:41:55.680 They'll not give them back, give them to those singers, right. 0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:58.239 Initially they had wanted to, and apparently the Grammys were like, 0:41:58.360 --> 0:42:00.560 do not give those to anybody. It's not up to 0:42:00.640 --> 0:42:02.800 you to give them the anyone. And the question is 0:42:02.800 --> 0:42:04.440 whether or not they were going to give the Grammy 0:42:04.520 --> 0:42:08.239 to the next runner up. I can't remember. I think 0:42:08.360 --> 0:42:13.920 Tone Loke, Information Society, I can't remember who else, But 0:42:14.239 --> 0:42:17.040 they didn't. There was no Grammy for Best New Artists 0:42:17.080 --> 0:42:21.040 given out for nineteen ninety because Millie Vanilli's was taken back. 0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:25.080 And at that press conference, they had their voice coach 0:42:26.120 --> 0:42:29.200 stand up and say, yeah, these guys can sing. I 0:42:29.640 --> 0:42:33.800 totally attest to that, And yeah, that was where you 0:42:34.480 --> 0:42:36.880 mentioned earlier that they kind of like wrapped and sang 0:42:37.280 --> 0:42:39.680 just these little snippets to show that they could, and 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:43.320 it wasn't very good. Yeah, but that was It was 0:42:43.400 --> 0:42:48.880 a very fateful press conference. But if you watch it, 0:42:49.600 --> 0:42:52.239 they don't seem at all nervous. They seem like they're 0:42:52.280 --> 0:42:56.080 soaking in the love still. And I read that during 0:42:56.160 --> 0:42:59.560 this time they expected the music industry to take them 0:42:59.600 --> 0:43:02.279 back with arms, because they'd done so much to make 0:43:02.360 --> 0:43:05.959 Millie Vanilla huge. That just did not happen, all. 0:43:05.920 --> 0:43:10.320 Right, So that the Grammy snapo was on November nineteenth, 0:43:10.480 --> 0:43:14.960 nineteen ninety. This happened because five days earlier, Frank Farrion 0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:18.440 finally came out because these guys would not stop asking 0:43:18.520 --> 0:43:21.759 him to sing, and it was not only annoying to 0:43:21.800 --> 0:43:24.200 Frank Farrian, but he was in between a rock and 0:43:24.280 --> 0:43:26.600 a hard places, like can this thing even go on anymore? 0:43:27.120 --> 0:43:29.440 So he figured it can't go on. I'm going to 0:43:29.480 --> 0:43:33.520 hold a press conference. I'm going to expose everything. He 0:43:33.680 --> 0:43:36.480 disclosed it all and he said, you know, still Arista 0:43:36.520 --> 0:43:40.160 didn't know anything about this, and Arista they were this. 0:43:40.400 --> 0:43:43.000 This guy, the VP of Operations, Roy Lott, had a 0:43:43.120 --> 0:43:46.440 quote where he was like, seven million albums embarrassing? Am 0:43:46.440 --> 0:43:49.399 I embarrassed? You know, I don't mean the njustified the means, 0:43:49.440 --> 0:43:52.279 but we sold seven million albums And I'm like, dude, 0:43:52.400 --> 0:43:55.719 that's the very definition of the end justified thing exactly. 0:43:56.120 --> 0:43:57.239 I don't think you know what that means. 0:43:57.400 --> 0:44:02.560 Yeah. So there was a very wide ranging impact from this, 0:44:02.719 --> 0:44:04.600 like we've kind of talked about, like a lot of 0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:06.880 people pointed to this and said, see, see, like this 0:44:07.040 --> 0:44:10.920 isn't about the actual music or the creativity or the 0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:14.359 talent anymore. It's about packaging people as artists so much 0:44:14.440 --> 0:44:17.120 so that they didn't even sing on the album. That 0:44:17.239 --> 0:44:19.000 was the big thing. If it didn't come out that 0:44:19.040 --> 0:44:21.080 they were lip syncing in concerts, they could have pointed 0:44:21.160 --> 0:44:24.160 to everybody from Janet Jackson to Paul Abduel and said, 0:44:24.520 --> 0:44:27.600 they lip SYNCD too. You can't really sing well when 0:44:27.600 --> 0:44:31.279 you're doing these incredible choreographed dances throughout a whole show. 0:44:31.400 --> 0:44:35.040 So of course their lip syncing. It wasn't that it 0:44:35.239 --> 0:44:37.640 was that they didn't even sing on the album, that 0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:40.160 they had nothing to do with the music aside from 0:44:40.239 --> 0:44:43.400 the visuals. That that's what really kind of got everybody. 0:44:43.840 --> 0:44:46.120 But one of the things that it definitely exposes that 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:49.240 this is not a standalone incident. 0:44:49.960 --> 0:44:52.080 No, And it was well known in the music industry 0:44:52.120 --> 0:44:55.320 that this happened. Martha Wall she was part of the 0:44:55.360 --> 0:44:57.640 Weather Girls who had the great song It's Raining Men. 0:44:58.160 --> 0:44:59.840 She was the one who sang that part on the 0:45:00.200 --> 0:45:03.840 and See Music Factory hit. They again, they hired a 0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:06.440 model slash singer to sort of pretend like she had 0:45:06.480 --> 0:45:06.719 done it. 0:45:06.880 --> 0:45:08.799 Without her knowledge. Oh yeah. 0:45:09.360 --> 0:45:11.440 The Village People had always been rumored to have not 0:45:11.840 --> 0:45:14.320 been the actual singers like that first version of the 0:45:14.400 --> 0:45:16.759 Village People. And I tried to find out if that 0:45:16.840 --> 0:45:20.279 was true, and I really couldn't see anything definite, but 0:45:20.440 --> 0:45:22.279 a lot of people were doing this kind of thing 0:45:22.360 --> 0:45:26.040 here and there. Lawsuits started to be people I think 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:28.160 were just sort of fed up, though, And it was 0:45:28.239 --> 0:45:30.680 the end of the eighties, and I think people, I 0:45:30.719 --> 0:45:33.480 think styles were changing and tastes were changing, and they're like, 0:45:33.560 --> 0:45:37.680 we don't want fake music, Like you should start putting 0:45:37.800 --> 0:45:41.520 like truth on labels, like this wasn't recorded by this, 0:45:41.760 --> 0:45:46.880 like truth and music labeling. Fans filed class action lawsuits 0:45:47.320 --> 0:45:50.560 about Millie Vanilly and it was settled by getting up 0:45:50.600 --> 0:45:54.080 to three dollars from BMG and Arista if you could say, 0:45:54.200 --> 0:45:56.600 like here's my concert ticket or here's the album that 0:45:56.719 --> 0:45:59.800 I bought fairy and and you kind of alluded to 0:45:59.840 --> 0:46:03.880 this early on, and I sort of agree, like it 0:46:04.000 --> 0:46:06.759 was a fraud, but he was also like this is 0:46:06.920 --> 0:46:10.440 pop music, and like who cares in Europe? Like no 0:46:10.520 --> 0:46:13.240 one cares, It's no big deal. Like everyone in America 0:46:13.320 --> 0:46:15.800 got so riled up about this, and like, you know, 0:46:15.920 --> 0:46:17.760 these guys made a couple of million bucks. 0:46:18.200 --> 0:46:18.959 I made money. 0:46:19.080 --> 0:46:21.239 The guys who really sang it ended up making money, 0:46:21.680 --> 0:46:22.800 Like who cares? 0:46:23.360 --> 0:46:23.520 Right? 0:46:24.200 --> 0:46:26.280 And I sort of get that a little bit because 0:46:27.400 --> 0:46:30.120 there's a lot more things to be getting a huff about, 0:46:30.239 --> 0:46:31.920 but I also get it in a way. 0:46:32.400 --> 0:46:35.200 Yeah, and I think now we do. But we do 0:46:35.600 --> 0:46:39.279 now because of the rough transition that we went through 0:46:39.640 --> 0:46:43.239 by being so so let down by Miller Vanilli, I 0:46:43.440 --> 0:46:48.200 wasn't let down flyar so Robin Fab again. They were 0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:51.200 expecting to just basically be welcome back into the fold 0:46:51.239 --> 0:46:53.439 pretty quickly. That this was basically just a speed bump, 0:46:53.480 --> 0:46:55.920 and now, more than anything, they were released from this 0:46:56.040 --> 0:46:58.200 golden prison they were in. They didn't have to be 0:46:58.280 --> 0:47:01.240 stressed out about people finding out their secret any longer. 0:47:01.640 --> 0:47:05.040 And now finally they could do their own music, and 0:47:05.120 --> 0:47:08.359 they actually released an album called Robin Fab using their 0:47:08.400 --> 0:47:11.719 real voices. They showed up on the Arsenio Hall Show 0:47:11.920 --> 0:47:14.239 to sing live, which they had turned down before because 0:47:14.280 --> 0:47:17.880 the Arsenio Hall Show required performers to perform live, no 0:47:18.000 --> 0:47:20.000 lip syncing. So now this is kind of like a 0:47:20.080 --> 0:47:23.960 triumphant appearance on the Arsenio Hall Show. Their album sold 0:47:24.080 --> 0:47:26.440 two thousand copies in the US and that was it. 0:47:27.200 --> 0:47:29.840 Yeah, it was a big flop. I did not know 0:47:30.200 --> 0:47:33.520 until today that they did a cover version on that 0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:35.920 album of Cheap Tricks I want you to want me. 0:47:36.360 --> 0:47:37.439 Oh, I didn't know that either. 0:47:38.520 --> 0:47:39.040 Listen to it. 0:47:39.160 --> 0:47:42.480 I definitely will. But so a lot of people are like, yeah, 0:47:42.480 --> 0:47:45.160 of course it was a flop. They were frauds. I 0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:48.279 think that one of the reasons, probably the biggest reason 0:47:48.360 --> 0:47:49.680 it was a flop, is that they released it in 0:47:49.800 --> 0:47:53.200 nineteen ninety three, and nineteen ninety and nineteen ninety three 0:47:53.520 --> 0:47:58.560 were situated into totally different worlds because Nevermind had come 0:47:58.600 --> 0:48:01.160 out in September nineteen ninety one, and no one cared 0:48:01.239 --> 0:48:04.160 a lick about anything that seens THEE Music Factory or 0:48:04.239 --> 0:48:07.960 Black Fox or Millie Vanilly was putting out. All they 0:48:08.000 --> 0:48:10.080 wanted was more and more Nirvana and grunge, and give 0:48:10.120 --> 0:48:12.200 it to us, give us Pearl Jam, give us all 0:48:12.320 --> 0:48:14.520 that stuff. That's all we care about. So I think 0:48:14.560 --> 0:48:17.120 that that at least accounts for a significant reason why 0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:18.120 it was such a flop. 0:48:18.640 --> 0:48:21.680 Yeah, bad timing for sure, and for I mean that 0:48:21.840 --> 0:48:24.000 changed all of music. That's when the metal bands were all, 0:48:24.080 --> 0:48:26.759 I go, what are we supposed to do now? It 0:48:26.920 --> 0:48:31.040 was a big transition. As far as Robin fab If 0:48:31.080 --> 0:48:33.719 you haven't seen the behind the music, some pretty sad 0:48:33.760 --> 0:48:39.120 stuff happened afterward. Rob had a pretty rough life after that. 0:48:39.280 --> 0:48:42.400 He had a suicide attempt in ninety one. He was 0:48:42.480 --> 0:48:44.719 in rehab quite a few times. He was arrested a 0:48:44.800 --> 0:48:48.800 few times. They eventually were going to get back together 0:48:48.880 --> 0:48:51.520 in nineteen ninety eight to work on something, but on 0:48:51.600 --> 0:48:54.759 April seventh of that year, he was found dead in 0:48:54.840 --> 0:48:58.480 a hotel room. And everyone basically agrees that it was 0:48:58.520 --> 0:49:05.440 an accidental overdose of alcohol and pills, and Fab, you know, 0:49:05.680 --> 0:49:08.960 was heartbroken and put out a pretty app statement I 0:49:09.040 --> 0:49:12.560 think was Millie Vanilli was not a disgrace. The only 0:49:12.600 --> 0:49:15.400 disgrace is how Rob died all alone. Where were the 0:49:15.440 --> 0:49:17.680 ones that pushed us to the top, who made millions? 0:49:18.120 --> 0:49:21.120 And it's just that familiar story of sort of getting 0:49:21.320 --> 0:49:25.320 used and then kicked to the curb and forgotten about, 0:49:25.800 --> 0:49:27.959 you know, chewed up by a bit more powerful people. 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:32.680 Yeah, exactly, so Fab. Actually they were both really like 0:49:32.800 --> 0:49:36.880 into drugs and drinking, and Fab made it out. I 0:49:37.000 --> 0:49:40.360 read that he paid for one of Rob's stints in rehab, 0:49:41.640 --> 0:49:44.840 so he made it out. He still sings today. In 0:49:44.920 --> 0:49:47.880 twenty fifteen, he joined up with John Davis, one of 0:49:47.920 --> 0:49:51.320 the original singers of Millie Vanilli, and they toured I 0:49:51.400 --> 0:49:54.640 think as face meets Voice. Yeah. So they performed some 0:49:54.760 --> 0:49:58.960 of Milli Vanilli's songs on tour. And one thing that 0:49:59.080 --> 0:50:02.160 I am so looking forward to I can't even stand 0:50:02.239 --> 0:50:05.759 it is apparently, finally, at long last, we're going to 0:50:05.840 --> 0:50:09.719 get a Milli Vanilli biopic. Yeah. Did you see these 0:50:09.760 --> 0:50:11.560 guys that are playing them? No? Is it dead on? 0:50:12.400 --> 0:50:14.200 Oh? I'm texting you right now. 0:50:14.160 --> 0:50:16.720 Dude, better than ice Cube son playing ice Cube. 0:50:17.440 --> 0:50:18.720 Oh, I didn't know that was happening. 0:50:18.920 --> 0:50:22.480 No, that was in Uh what was the NWA biopic? 0:50:23.640 --> 0:50:23.799 Oh? 0:50:23.960 --> 0:50:25.840 Was he in that? Yeah? He played ice Cube. That 0:50:25.960 --> 0:50:26.920 was ice Cube's kid. 0:50:27.239 --> 0:50:29.239 Straight out of con Oh no, ice Cube. I thought 0:50:29.719 --> 0:50:32.080 I thought you said Vanilla Ice. 0:50:32.440 --> 0:50:32.480 No. 0:50:34.520 --> 0:50:36.880 Yeah, yeah, I can't remember his name. The he was 0:50:36.920 --> 0:50:38.440 in Cocaine Beer Too, the movie you hated it? 0:50:39.040 --> 0:50:42.200 I know. Vanilla Ice biopic, by the way, is called 0:50:42.280 --> 0:50:42.879 cool as Ice. 0:50:43.880 --> 0:50:44.640 Is that a real thing too? 0:50:44.920 --> 0:50:46.839 Yeah, but it's not really a biopic, but it kind 0:50:46.880 --> 0:50:48.479 of is. Did you see the picture? 0:50:48.560 --> 0:50:49.160 Do you have your phone? 0:50:49.719 --> 0:50:49.920 I do? 0:50:50.480 --> 0:50:53.440 Sorry, look at these guys, two unknowns. I think they 0:50:53.480 --> 0:50:56.120 spent years trying to find the right people. But it's 0:50:56.160 --> 0:51:03.360 a guy named Ilan Bin Ali is fab name tijon Niji. 0:51:03.520 --> 0:51:05.320 I'm not sure to pronounce that. I go as the 0:51:05.400 --> 0:51:07.840 best as I can do. And they look these guys up. 0:51:07.920 --> 0:51:12.120 They are in costume as Millie Vanilli, and it's uncanny 0:51:12.200 --> 0:51:13.359 how much they look like those guys. 0:51:13.440 --> 0:51:16.360 It definitely is. It's pretty pretty well, that's really something. 0:51:16.440 --> 0:51:17.319 I can't wait to see it. 0:51:17.520 --> 0:51:18.839 So I hope it's going to be good. 0:51:19.000 --> 0:51:21.160 And supposedly a lot of people who are involved in 0:51:21.239 --> 0:51:25.480 the actual band, like or their relatives, are associate or 0:51:25.560 --> 0:51:27.960 executive producers on this movie too, so it should be 0:51:28.000 --> 0:51:28.800 pretty authentic. 0:51:29.400 --> 0:51:32.120 Yeah. I think the icing on top is the executive 0:51:32.120 --> 0:51:36.360 producer was the was that guy who runs three hundred 0:51:36.480 --> 0:51:40.000 Entertainment now who was the original lyricist for Girl You Know? 0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:40.479 It's true? 0:51:41.080 --> 0:51:42.279 Pretty amazing, isn't that cool? 0:51:42.920 --> 0:51:45.160 Very cool? And if you want to see something really cute. 0:51:45.520 --> 0:51:47.360 When you me and I were doing our Milli Vanilli 0:51:47.400 --> 0:51:50.680 research on YouTube last night, we ran across a channel 0:51:50.719 --> 0:51:54.839 called Africa React and it's this super cute girl who 0:51:55.280 --> 0:51:57.399 listens to songs that she'd never heard for the first 0:51:57.440 --> 0:51:59.719 time and it's just reaction videos. But one of the 0:51:59.760 --> 0:52:01.560 ones she did was Girl you Know it's true, and 0:52:02.040 --> 0:52:05.080 she gave an official thumbs up to it. It's really cute. Cool. Yeah, 0:52:05.120 --> 0:52:08.600 those were fun. You got anything else? Nothing else? All right, everybody? 0:52:08.640 --> 0:52:10.000 That means it's time for listener mail. 0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:17.080 I'm gonna call this. My husband fell asleep at your 0:52:17.120 --> 0:52:21.200 show in Boston. Hey, guys, got tickets to the Medford 0:52:21.239 --> 0:52:23.120 show and was excited to see folks live for the 0:52:23.160 --> 0:52:25.319 first time. My husband agreed to join me and met 0:52:25.360 --> 0:52:28.279 me in Medford after a few days at a work 0:52:28.320 --> 0:52:30.560 conference in New York. We took our seats, and just 0:52:30.600 --> 0:52:33.000 as the lights went down and you all appeared on stage, 0:52:33.040 --> 0:52:35.680 we laughed at your jokes, we owed at the topic, 0:52:35.760 --> 0:52:38.400 and settled in to be educated. Much to my surprise, 0:52:38.480 --> 0:52:40.919 I noticed my husband next to me doing the head 0:52:41.000 --> 0:52:44.680 bob and bouncing, beginning to nod off. About ten minutes 0:52:44.719 --> 0:52:47.080 in Wow, he dozed off all I did my best 0:52:47.120 --> 0:52:50.239 to keep from leaning over onto the guy next to us. 0:52:50.719 --> 0:52:52.919 He finally did wake up after the second commercial break 0:52:53.480 --> 0:52:55.800 and enjoyed the ending. He claims that I've been conditioning 0:52:55.880 --> 0:52:58.160 him to fall asleep when stuff he should know starts, 0:52:58.160 --> 0:53:01.000 but I believe it may have been and the let 0:53:01.120 --> 0:53:03.520 down from the excitement of the conference and the work trip, 0:53:04.080 --> 0:53:06.320 but we both had a great time. Wouldn't hesitate to 0:53:06.360 --> 0:53:08.160 see you live again someday, and thanks so much for 0:53:08.239 --> 0:53:11.200 taking a trip up north. I'm not gonna read Maggie's 0:53:11.280 --> 0:53:13.920 last name because her husband may be embarrassed, so that 0:53:14.080 --> 0:53:16.759 is just from Maggie in the Northeast. 0:53:17.120 --> 0:53:20.040 Thanks a lot, Maggie, that's hilarious. The idea of your 0:53:20.120 --> 0:53:24.480 husband I'm falling asleep to us normally and then having 0:53:24.520 --> 0:53:26.959 it half an in person too because he's so easy. 0:53:27.000 --> 0:53:28.719 I love it. I love it too well. If you 0:53:28.760 --> 0:53:30.560 want to be like Maggie and get in touch with us, 0:53:30.719 --> 0:53:33.279 we love it when people do that, you can send 0:53:33.360 --> 0:53:36.480 us an email to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com. 0:53:39.760 --> 0:53:42.600 Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 0:53:42.719 --> 0:53:46.840 more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 0:53:47.000 --> 0:53:48.840 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.