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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should know, a production of iHeartRadio. Hey,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck

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Speaker 1: and here's Jerry too, and this is stuff you shouldette know.

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Speaker 1: You know it's true. Girl. Oo ooh ooh.

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Speaker 2: I love that you had this idea to do one

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Speaker 2: on the Milli Vanilly story. Sure, I love that we're

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Speaker 2: doing it. Yeah, And I was surprised about how much

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Speaker 2: the US Army played in the story of Milli Vanilly.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, technically you could say that the US Army produced

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Speaker 1: Millie Vanilli.

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Speaker 2: Initially, Yes, we'll point it out. Early on, there were

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Speaker 2: just quite a few references. I was like, there's the

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Speaker 2: army again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, and even still today, but this was

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Speaker 1: a full three decades later. Millie Vanilli is still generally

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Speaker 1: looked down upon as frauds and a sham and just

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Speaker 1: a joke. But when it's one of those stories, just

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Speaker 1: like everything else, when you really dig into it's way

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Speaker 1: more complex, way more complicated. And even when it's apparent

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Speaker 1: and clear that you got okay, here's the villain, if

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Speaker 1: you read interviews with the villain at the time, you're like,

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Speaker 1: kind of make some great points here, too. It's just complicated.

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Speaker 1: But one thing that I hope you guys get out

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Speaker 1: of this is that Rob and Fab were kids at

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Speaker 1: the time we're in over their head. Were certainly not

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Speaker 1: responsible for orchestrating the fraud that was perpetrated through Millie Vanilli.

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Speaker 2: Now, they did as they were told, and like you said,

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Speaker 2: they were in the early twenties. I have a lot

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Speaker 2: of I got a lot of sympathy for these.

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Speaker 1: Guys, for sure, I do too, and I have even

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Speaker 1: more now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, so you mentioned the what'd you call

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Speaker 2: him a villain or the orchestrator?

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Speaker 1: Would I call them both? Technically?

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Speaker 2: All right? Well, we're talking about a man named Frank Farrian.

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Speaker 2: He was born as Frank's I'm sorry, Franz Ruther nineteen

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Speaker 2: forty one. Grew up in Germany. Big fan of music,

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Speaker 2: big fan of soul music, American soul music, yes, and

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Speaker 2: was a singer himself, apparently a pretty decent singer, and

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Speaker 2: sang in clubs where United States Army soldiers would.

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Speaker 1: Go, yeah, and he's sang what you'd call today blue

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Speaker 1: eyed soul. But this was before blue eyed soul was acceptable,

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Speaker 1: at least in Germany. So he wanted to sing like

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Speaker 1: the songs of his heroes, but they were like, you're no,

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Speaker 1: you shouldn't be doing that. Stop doing that. So he

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Speaker 1: was thwarted as an actual artist from the get go,

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Speaker 1: and he moved into producing in the early seventies. And

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Speaker 1: there's a quote from him in the early nineties in

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Speaker 1: the midst of all this, and he said, you know

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Speaker 1: the I know an other people are figuring out that

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Speaker 1: the producer is now the most important person in the band,

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Speaker 1: not the artists. And if that didn't reflect the future,

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Speaker 1: then I don't know what does. Yeah, But he became

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Speaker 1: a producer, and he became a pretty successful producer almost

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Speaker 1: out of the gate.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, in Europe and then eventually, obviously thanks to Milli

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Speaker 2: Vanilly worldwide. But in Europe he was super successful with

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Speaker 2: a group called Bonie M b O N Y capital M.

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Speaker 2: I don't know if they had an exclamation pointer in

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Speaker 2: Tero bang or something, that would have been kind of cool, sure,

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Speaker 2: but in Tero Bang would have been perfect, actually yes,

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Speaker 2: because you're like, what is a bonie M? But Boniem

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Speaker 2: was a group disco funk. Olivia described them as europop.

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Speaker 2: They were all these things. When this album came out,

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Speaker 2: and this is I mean pretty obvious that this laid

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Speaker 2: the groundwork for Milli Vanilly because Farian Frank Farrian sang

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Speaker 2: the songs himself and hired four model singers from Caribbean

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Speaker 2: as the touring band, and between seventy six and eighty five,

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Speaker 2: over a nine year period, they had eight studio albums

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Speaker 2: and we're pretty big in Europe. They weren't the hugest

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Speaker 2: thing ever, but they were big over there, not here.

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Speaker 2: But he had laid this groundwork of this model of

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Speaker 2: him or someone else singing, and other people that had

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Speaker 2: a prettier face would be on the cover as the.

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Speaker 1: Group, yeah, or touring as the group too, all of it,

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Speaker 1: and you just wouldn't disclose that. You just you know,

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Speaker 1: not mentioned that kind of thing. Yeah, and bony m

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Speaker 1: became popular enough that a guy named Bobby Farrell, who

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Speaker 1: was one of the i think one of the models

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Speaker 1: who was hired, became the group's actual lead singer. But

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Speaker 1: he when he went to go into the studio and

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Speaker 1: record tracks after he left and the album came out,

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Speaker 1: he'd find that his tracks have been re recorded over

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Speaker 1: with Farian singing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So that was just how it was Farian was in charge.

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Speaker 1: You just had to go along with it, probably because

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Speaker 1: they signed a not so great contract with them.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Now, we turned to the beginnings of the

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Speaker 2: Millie Vanilli story when Frank Farrion stole a song basically

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Speaker 2: called Girl you Know It's True.

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Speaker 1: It was written by a group of people.

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Speaker 2: There was a Baltimore hip hop group named New Mars

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Speaker 2: in um RX collaborated with a singer from a group

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Speaker 2: called StarPoint name I Guess Kai or key at a Yemo,

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Speaker 2: and then a man named Bill Peedaway Junior who became

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Speaker 2: a really big person in the music business like work

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Speaker 2: with Jay Z and Missy Elliott and all kinds of people,

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Speaker 2: but at the time was working at a gas station

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Speaker 2: and got together with them, which included as part of

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Speaker 2: Newmark's a guy named Kevin Lyles who is now the

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Speaker 2: CEO three hundred Entertainment, which is a huge rap record label.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you go back and listen to Girl

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Speaker 1: you Know It's True by New Marks, you will recognize

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Speaker 1: it immediately because not only did Frank Ferrian steal the song,

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Speaker 1: when he remade it, he remade it really faithfully. He

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Speaker 1: just basically gussied it up a little bit more than

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Speaker 1: New Marks was capable of, because again he was a

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Speaker 1: really talented producer, but he didn't. It wasn't an interpretation

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Speaker 1: or a rearrangement of Girl. You know, it's true. He

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Speaker 1: just redid it exactly how New Marks had done it right. So,

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Speaker 1: just just to put this in perspective, the fraud that

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Speaker 1: was Millie Vanilli started out with the theft of a song,

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Speaker 1: their biggest their second biggest hit.

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Speaker 2: Actually yeah, and this song he was able to steal

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Speaker 2: it because it was never a big hit. I think

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Speaker 2: it's sold about eight thousand records and in some regions

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Speaker 2: of the US, I think Atlanta and Philly and Chicago

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Speaker 2: is what Livia found a little bit of airplay, but

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Speaker 2: it was not a big song in the United States.

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Speaker 2: But very Key Studio Records, who was the indie label

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Speaker 2: to put it out. They also put it out in

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Speaker 2: Europe and this is where this is where Frank heard

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Speaker 2: it in Germany and was like, I can steal this thing.

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Speaker 2: It's not a problem.

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Speaker 1: Exactly, only eight thousand records, no problem. Yeah, So I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I didn't see if he ever saw the permission. There's

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Speaker 1: like a legend that supposedly he wanted to go collaborate

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Speaker 1: with New Marks and was either ignored or was told no,

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Speaker 1: that's not necessarily true. There's a lot of stuff here

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Speaker 1: that you just have to take with a grain of salt,

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Speaker 1: because there are a lot of different people with a

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Speaker 1: lot of different self interests that gave their own version

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Speaker 1: of events. So just about everything we say you should

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Speaker 1: probably take with a grain of salt, including that. It's

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Speaker 1: entirely possible from what I've read about Frank Farrion that

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Speaker 1: he didn't try to get in touch with them at all.

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Speaker 1: He just decided he was going to take that song yeah,

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Speaker 1: and deal with it later, deal with to fall out later.

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Speaker 2: They didn't New Marks didn't know that that happened until

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Speaker 2: they heard Millie Vanilli singing it on the radio.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine how mad man you would be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they got they got paid later, and they got

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Speaker 2: credit later because they followed a bunch of lawsuits. But

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Speaker 2: it took that to get that credit and money.

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Speaker 1: So when Frank Ferrian put together his own version of girl,

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Speaker 1: you know it's true. Fabrice Morvin and Rob Palladis or Polaitis,

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Speaker 1: they weren't even around yet. They were not part of

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Speaker 1: the group. They hadn't even met Frank Farrian at that point.

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Speaker 1: They were well known around the Munich club scene as

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Speaker 1: being like a couple of hot dudes, yeah who knew

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Speaker 1: how to dance. Sure, and I believe that's kind of

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Speaker 1: where Farian caught on to them. For sure, we'll see

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Speaker 1: he invited them to come over. But before that, we

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Speaker 1: should talk a little bit about Rob and fab.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so fab like you said, his name is Fabrice.

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Speaker 2: Morvin was born on Guadaloupe, is a Caribbean island, raised

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Speaker 2: in Paris. Evidently was a pretty promising gymnast until a

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Speaker 2: vertebrae injury from a trampoline accident in nineteen eighty three.

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Speaker 2: And how it just hurts to think about.

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Speaker 1: I know, trampolines are so dangerous. They are so dangerous. Everybody.

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Speaker 1: If you have a trampoline, you haven't heard our Trampoline episode,

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Speaker 1: go listen to it and then sell your trampoline.

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Speaker 2: Ruby asked for one. I was like, no way, So

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Speaker 2: couldn't participate in gymnastics anymore, turned to dancing.

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Speaker 1: So.

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Speaker 2: Rob Polaitis was born in New York City and the

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Speaker 2: son of a German woman and a US soldier. Here

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Speaker 2: we go again, an African American US soldier, but was

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Speaker 2: ended up in an orphanage in Bavaria and was adopted

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Speaker 2: at the age of four by a German couple. And

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Speaker 2: so he and for Briests have something in common. There

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Speaker 2: are two black men in the nineteen seventies growing up

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Speaker 2: in these not completely white cultures but kind of devoid

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Speaker 2: of lot of black culture at least, facing racism from

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Speaker 2: classmates and stuff like that. And they bonded over this.

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Speaker 2: I think it was Rob who talked about finally in

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Speaker 2: his teenage years, Michael Jackson became such a big deal

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Speaker 2: that all all of a sudden, like you know, even

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Speaker 2: where he was in Germany, it became kind of trendy

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Speaker 2: to be black, and he wasn't like it's picked on,

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Speaker 2: I guess. But super handsome guy was a model obviously

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Speaker 2: very early on in a DJ and a breakdancer, and

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Speaker 2: a good enough breakdancer that in nineteen eighty four he

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Speaker 2: went to New York for a breakdancing competition, which is

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Speaker 2: where he met fab who was there for a dance seminar.

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Speaker 1: Very fortuitous, yeah, even more like they didn't meet in

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Speaker 1: New York. Rob decided to fly to LA as part

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Speaker 1: of that trip to New York. While he was over

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Speaker 1: on the across the Pond, and that's where he met Fabrice.

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Speaker 2: All right, in New York.

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Speaker 1: Well, he was in New York. They just didn't meet

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Speaker 1: in New York. Well, so it was a very fortuitous

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Speaker 1: chance meeting. And apparently, you know, they they got along

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Speaker 1: and everything. And I saw that they ran into each

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Speaker 1: other again in Munich. I don't know if they, you know,

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Speaker 1: kept in touch or anything like that, but either way,

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Speaker 1: once they were both back in Munich living in the

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Speaker 1: same town together, they basically said, let's join forces and

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Speaker 1: really knock the socks off of the people at the

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Speaker 1: clubs around here.

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Speaker 2: I'll tell you where they didn't meet. Kansas City, It's true.

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Speaker 1: It's like, was it New York or LA? Where else

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Speaker 1: could it be? It was not Kansas City, It's true.

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Speaker 2: No, or I don't know, what's another place they wouldn't

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Speaker 2: have met.

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Speaker 1: Arlington, Virginia, Topeka. Sure they could have met in Arlington,

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Speaker 1: just outside of d C. Yeah, all right, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's just right across the river. So what are they

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Speaker 1: doing in DC meeting the president? I would guess model

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Speaker 1: model you in Yeah, they were doing break dancing for

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Speaker 1: Ronald Reagan. All right, model you was a fun little

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Speaker 1: impro exercise.

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Speaker 2: Sure, So, like you said, they met back in Munich.

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Speaker 2: They would eventually get the attention of Frank Farrion, who

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Speaker 2: was obviously kind of I'm sure you like to think

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Speaker 2: he knew everybody in that scene in Germany and got

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Speaker 2: in touch with them on New Year's Day nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 2: came together very quickly, brought him to his studio in Frankfurt,

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Speaker 2: played them girl. You know it's true. They signed a

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Speaker 2: record contract that day, where in which Frank Farrion said,

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Speaker 2: I will put out at least ten songs a year

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Speaker 2: by you guys. And as far as Robin fab were concerned,

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Speaker 2: and I totally believe him, they thought that meant we

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Speaker 2: are going to sing these songs, even though they weren't

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Speaker 2: great singers.

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Speaker 1: They also later said that they didn't read the contract,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that they met and signed a contract

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Speaker 1: on New Year's Day in nineteen eighty eight certainly supports that.

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Speaker 1: At the very least, they didn't bring any legal counsel

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Speaker 1: in to look at it. Yeah, so they just trusted

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Speaker 1: Frank Feryon. They had been looking for singing parts. So

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Speaker 1: they just assumed that that's what he was saying, We're

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Speaker 1: going to make records with you guys. That is not

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Speaker 1: what had happened. And by this time Farian already knew

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Speaker 1: he didn't want Rob or Fab to sing. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: like he had them over heard them sing. It was like,

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Speaker 1: I've got to figure something else out. Yeah, he was like,

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Speaker 1: I love your look, and you guys are going to

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Speaker 1: be the lip syncing frontman of Millie Vanilli And I'm

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Speaker 1: just not going to tell you that at first.

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Speaker 2: That's right. What he had really done was, as everybody knows,

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Speaker 2: I think probably by now, but he hired professional singers

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Speaker 2: to record Girl. You know it's true. Some gentlemen by

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Speaker 2: the name of Brad Howell and John Davis, former US

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Speaker 2: soldiers once again. He met them in Germany when Farian

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Speaker 2: was working there. And then another former US soldier, Charles Shaw,

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Speaker 2: is a guy who did the rap portion of that song.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was puzzled. I'm like, are they talking about

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Speaker 1: They're not talking about them. They have to be speaking

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Speaker 1: about that one part where he just suddenly goes like,

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Speaker 1: I'm in love with you, girl, you on my mind.

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Speaker 1: That Yeah, that's what they're calling rap.

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Speaker 2: Sure, what else is it?

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Speaker 1: Like? Rhythmic singing, that's what rap is. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: know about that one.

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Speaker 2: Yeah that was the rap part.

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Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, Charles, you take issue. I guess I did. Definitely,

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Speaker 1: I definitely did. Even today, like I'm not looking down

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Speaker 1: on Milli Vanilli, like, sure that was not rap? All right,

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Speaker 1: Well that Blondie song was more rap than than raping girl,

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Speaker 1: you know it's true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So at any rate, those three guys did with

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Speaker 2: it whatever they did on tape as the real singers,

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Speaker 2: slash rappers, slash How did you describe it? Rhythmic talkers,

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Speaker 2: rhythmic singers, rhythmic singers. But from the get go, it

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Speaker 2: wasn't like, Hey, we're going to be this new band,

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Speaker 2: We're going to go out on tour. I think Howell

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Speaker 2: was in his forties and he was like, I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to tour farians was It was just Fairian's deal

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Speaker 2: from the beginning, as I'm going to have these two

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Speaker 2: super handsome model guys in there, you guys are going

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Speaker 2: to sing and they I think they ended up listing

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Speaker 2: them as backup singers on the record. The guys who

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Speaker 2: really sang it right, and that was just that was

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Speaker 2: the arrangement from the beginning to everybody but Robin Fab.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I'm not sure exactly when they figured out that

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Speaker 1: that was that they were not going to be singing.

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Speaker 1: I don't know, because when he played them the song Girl,

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Speaker 1: you know it's true the demo allegedly it was instrumental

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Speaker 1: at that point.

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Speaker 2: Oh really interesting, Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So that it wasn't like he was playing this for

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Speaker 1: them and saying like, you guys are just going to

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Speaker 1: pretend you're doing you're singing this like. I don't know

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Speaker 1: when they figured it out, but it didn't take very long.

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Speaker 1: And just as like a little side note before we

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Speaker 1: go take a break. Where did the name Millie Vanilli

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Speaker 1: come from? What does it mean?

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Speaker 2: Chuck Well, who knows. There's a bunch of stories. Robin

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Speaker 2: Fab said that it meant pop, positive energy, and Turkish,

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Speaker 2: which just isn't true. Sounds like something you would say for,

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Speaker 2: you know, when you're trying to sell records or whatever.

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Speaker 1: But also does the words Millie Vanilli sound Turkish in

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Speaker 1: any way, shape or form.

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Speaker 2: I don't know Turkish, but it doesn't sound particularly Turkish

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Speaker 2: to my.

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Speaker 1: Ninears definitely does not.

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Speaker 2: Some people said it was a discotheque in Berlin by

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Speaker 2: that name. Some people said Frank Ferring's assistant, Ingrid Siegith

301
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Speaker 2: was her nickname was Milli, And then other people said

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Speaker 2: it might have been and I'm not sure about this

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Speaker 2: at all, but it might have been inspired by Scritty Piliiti,

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Speaker 2: the great pop English pop band who is very underrated.

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Speaker 1: I think, yeah, they sing that song perfect way. I've

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Speaker 1: got a perfect way to make the girls go crazy.

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Speaker 1: It's gritty, pility is great, it is, and that's a

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Speaker 1: good song. But I just wanted to take this moment

309
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Speaker 1: because there's so few opportunities to express my opinion of

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Speaker 1: the greatest song of the eighties, The entire eighties, the

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Speaker 1: entire decade is owner of a lonely heart.

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Speaker 2: Yes, oh, I just heard that song.

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Speaker 1: I can. It's one of those ones that like, I'll

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Speaker 1: hear it on the radio or in the mall or something,

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Speaker 1: because you know there's still malls and I will never

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Speaker 1: be like, oh this song. I can listen to that

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Speaker 1: song every single time it comes on. Yeah, it is

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Speaker 1: so well done. It's so complex, but it's so catchy.

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Speaker 1: It's so well played. It's just the perfect song from

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Speaker 1: the eighties.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, movie Yourself, A great start, Yeah, great end, Greade.

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Speaker 1: Middle, Yeah, the whole shebang. I love it.

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Speaker 2: I liked the whole album. What was it was a

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Speaker 2: series of numbers. I wanted to say nine to two

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Speaker 2: and O, but that can't be.

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Speaker 1: Oh you ate one two, I can't remember. I liked

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Speaker 1: it though. They had that great song.

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Speaker 2: I'll leave it from that record too.

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Speaker 1: That's literally the only song I've heard off of that record.

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Speaker 1: That might be the only Yes song I've ever heard.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. It's still the greatest song of the eighties.

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Speaker 2: You've heard roundabout probably does it go round about?

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Speaker 1: You've got to lose control on the round about.

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Speaker 2: All Right, we're gonna take a break and we'll talk

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Speaker 2: about the deception right after this.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Chuck, So in April nineteen eighty eight, you said

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Speaker 1: that this all happened very quick. It's worth pointing out

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Speaker 1: this entire shebang, especially starting from when they reached the

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Speaker 1: United States till their downfall was less than two years.

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Speaker 1: This was all compressed in just a couple of years.

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Speaker 1: And the whole thing started in April nineteen eighty eight,

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Speaker 1: and after Frank Farrion had his completed recording of Girl

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Speaker 1: Robin Fab started touring Spain in France, so they were

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Speaker 1: promoting it. They were singing this right, so they by

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Speaker 1: this point Farian had said, Hey, you guys, just go

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Speaker 1: go out and just, you know, lip sync to this one,

347
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Speaker 1: and then when we do the next album, you guys

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Speaker 1: can actually sing, and that was one of the big

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Speaker 1: reasons that they bought into it. So by this time,

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Speaker 1: by April nineteen eighty eight, they were well aware what

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Speaker 1: was going on.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, dear listener, if you hear

353
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Speaker 2: a gentle thudding in the background, I don't know if

354
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 2: it's coming through, but it's not me banging the desk.

355
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:36,200
Speaker 2: There are some construction going on next door, and I

356
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Speaker 2: can't control these people. They basically said, I'm sorry.

357
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Speaker 1: They have minds of their own.

358
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Speaker 2: They have minds and they have a job to do,

359
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,600
Speaker 2: so they're doing it. But you may hear like a

360
00:19:44,600 --> 00:19:46,879
Speaker 2: low level bump every now and then, so I can't

361
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Speaker 2: hear anything all right, So maybe it's not coming through.

362
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 2: I don't know. But anyway, back to the story, this

363
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:58,159
Speaker 2: song was big in Germany. Like you said, did you

364
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Speaker 2: say that I didn't know. Okay, it was big in Germany,

365
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,879
Speaker 2: became a number one hit in Germany, and you know,

366
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Speaker 2: was like sort of a thing in Europe early on

367
00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 2: before it got to America, and right out of the bat,

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Speaker 2: right off the bat, out of the gate in Europe

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Speaker 2: when this song became a hit, Shaw, the original rapper

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Speaker 2: guy who Josh doesn't think raps no, basically came out

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Speaker 2: to the media in Europe and was like, by the way,

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Speaker 2: that's me And then that got shut down really really quickly.

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Speaker 2: He says it's because he was threatened by Frank Farrion.

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Speaker 2: Frank Farrian says, no, I paid him like mid you know,

375
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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty grand to keep his mouth shut.

376
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Speaker 2: But at any rate, this is the first time that

377
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Speaker 2: like the cat was out of the bag a little bit,

378
00:20:43,560 --> 00:20:47,080
Speaker 2: and rumors were kind of going around to the point

379
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Speaker 2: basically where on a radio station in Europe they had

380
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Speaker 2: a DJ that was like, hey, like, you guys, are

381
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Speaker 2: you really singing this? Like sing on the air to

382
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Speaker 2: prove that you're really good singers?

383
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Speaker 1: Right? I saw this described as by the time you know,

384
00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:04,600
Speaker 1: it finally came out, very poorly kept secret in the

385
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,880
Speaker 1: music industry. Yeah, but that is definitely where it would

386
00:21:07,920 --> 00:21:12,159
Speaker 1: have started for sure. Also, people who met them and

387
00:21:12,280 --> 00:21:14,760
Speaker 1: were in the music industry where like, these guys did

388
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Speaker 1: not sing that they were talked about as Hans and Franz.

389
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Speaker 1: They sounded like Hans and Franz, is how one interviewer

390
00:21:23,920 --> 00:21:27,720
Speaker 1: put it. Because they have very thick European accents, and

391
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Speaker 1: apparently Rob no Fab. His English was so shaky that

392
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Speaker 1: he just usually didn't talk very much. He'd interject a

393
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Speaker 1: word here or there, but Rob spoke for them most

394
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Speaker 1: of the time.

395
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean in their favor, Like the way someone

396
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,080
Speaker 2: sings is not often not the way that they talk, right.

397
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Speaker 2: But it was a fairly thinly veiled scheme, you know.

398
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Speaker 2: It's just like a lot of people early on were like,

399
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,960
Speaker 2: something's not adding up here when you interview.

400
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:01,840
Speaker 1: These guys, right, exactly, all right.

401
00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 2: So Rob and Fab are still beating this drum, and

402
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,360
Speaker 2: this is something that you'll see as a team through

403
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:10,040
Speaker 2: this whole thing. They never ever stopped asking to sing

404
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,320
Speaker 2: their own stuff. Very important pleading with Frank Ferry and

405
00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,760
Speaker 2: to let them sing their stuff. They really wanted to

406
00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:18,440
Speaker 2: do it. I get the sense that they didn't feel

407
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: great about the arrangement at all, and that they wanted

408
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,520
Speaker 2: to sing. They wanted to they thought they were good

409
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: singers and they wanted to sing.

410
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: They also felt like they were trapped in I think

411
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:32,480
Speaker 1: Rob Pudder fab put it as a golden prison. Oh yeah,

412
00:22:32,520 --> 00:22:37,720
Speaker 1: they've been having twenty thousand dollars advances, fuzzy handcuffs from

413
00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,200
Speaker 1: Frank Ferry and very early on, and these guys like

414
00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:45,560
Speaker 1: to party. There's no two ways around that. So these

415
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 1: two twenty five year old good looking honks who were

416
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,240
Speaker 1: suddenly kind of they started out on the club scene

417
00:22:51,240 --> 00:22:53,399
Speaker 1: and now they were the most popular dudes at the

418
00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:57,840
Speaker 1: clubs in Munich with money twenty grand each. Yeah, it

419
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:01,639
Speaker 1: didn't stick around for very long. So they would have

420
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,639
Speaker 1: owed that back to Frank Ferran and they were like, well,

421
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,560
Speaker 1: now we're really stuck, Like we're not only kind of

422
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:13,280
Speaker 1: looped into this lie, we're financially like obligate.

423
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Speaker 2: Into this yea, yeah, absolutely, I think as again, like

424
00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:19,240
Speaker 2: you get a lot of stories from the people involved.

425
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Speaker 2: Rob said later on that while this was happening in

426
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Speaker 2: the early days, he got in touch with people from

427
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,480
Speaker 2: Boni m and they said, by the way, this Frank

428
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 2: Farring guy's a rat and he wouldn't let us sing,

429
00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: and he sang the songs and it was all a

430
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Speaker 2: big scam. And so I think early on Rob sort

431
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,960
Speaker 2: of saw the writing on the walls, like we're in

432
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 2: this deal where we're probably not going to get to sing.

433
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 2: But their star was rising. In early nineteen eighty nine

434
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,359
Speaker 2: is when they hit the United States when they signed

435
00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 2: with Arista Records division of BMG. Who was the president

436
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:58,840
Speaker 2: of BMG at the time was Clive Davis, legendary producer.

437
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: There's a really a.

438
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,400
Speaker 2: Documentary on him, by the way, that I highly recommend.

439
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,520
Speaker 1: I think he was the president of Arista.

440
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,560
Speaker 2: Oh, I thought he was a president of BMG.

441
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I got the I thought he

442
00:24:10,160 --> 00:24:11,680
Speaker 1: was Arista, but yeah, you might be right.

443
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:14,760
Speaker 2: Well either way, Clive Davis is a legend no matter

444
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,360
Speaker 2: who he works for. Yeah, and great documentary on him.

445
00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:21,119
Speaker 2: And they signed them on the strength of Girl you

446
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,879
Speaker 2: Know It's True, released it as a single at the

447
00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 2: end of January nineteen eighty nine, and then repackaged the

448
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,000
Speaker 2: European version of the album for the United States as

449
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:35,359
Speaker 2: the album title Girl you Know It's True. Did some remixes,

450
00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,080
Speaker 2: took some songs off, put some on, and then released

451
00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 2: the full album. And the dates are important here because

452
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:45,280
Speaker 2: of how quickly it was in March of nineteen eighty nine.

453
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: Okay, so they the singles released at the end of

454
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,440
Speaker 1: January nineteen eighty nine. The album comes out in March

455
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: of nineteen eighty nine. And I referred earlier to Girl

456
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:57,439
Speaker 1: you Know It's True as their one of their second

457
00:24:57,600 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: biggest hits. It only reached number two on the Billboard charts.

458
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 1: I say only, but it's kind of surprising because that's

459
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,720
Speaker 1: the one that everybody thinks of with Milli Vanilli. Maybe

460
00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,399
Speaker 1: it's because that was everyone's introduction to it. But it

461
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: hit number two in April. So the following month overall,

462
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: that album worldwide sold eleven million copies. Mm hm. It

463
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:23,720
Speaker 1: is so hard to sell eleven million copies of a record,

464
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 1: It's astounding. And seven million of those copies were sold

465
00:25:27,119 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: in the United States alone.

466
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:31,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, so they had a number two hit in April.

467
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 2: They had a number one with baby Don't Forget My

468
00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 2: Number in July, had another number one with Girl I'm

469
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,320
Speaker 2: Gonna Miss You in September.

470
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,360
Speaker 1: You may maybe watch that video. I watched it too,

471
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: just like an hour ago. She's like, look, when you

472
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:50,480
Speaker 1: watch the part where he goes, oh, I'll think of

473
00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: it later, but there's a there's like a refrain that

474
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,000
Speaker 1: he keeps hitting throughout the video, and he does not

475
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 1: lip sync it correctly one time in the whole video.

476
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, well music videos too, though a lot of that lipsing.

477
00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 1: He wasn't great, to be fair, true, but this was

478
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,159
Speaker 1: the point. Yeah, And I guess in hindsight, you're looking

479
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:10,199
Speaker 1: for it, so you could see it. But yeah, she

480
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:13,359
Speaker 1: seemed to have noticed it pretty early on and then

481
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: blame it on.

482
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,560
Speaker 2: The rain was their final number one in November, and

483
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,160
Speaker 2: then All or Nothing was a number four in February

484
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,920
Speaker 2: of ninety So they had number one hits in I'm Sorry,

485
00:26:24,000 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 2: number two hit in April, then number one hits in July, September, November,

486
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 2: and then a number four in February of the next year. Right,

487
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:34,280
Speaker 2: that's as hot as any band in the history of music.

488
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: Yes, dude. Five singles released, all five in the top

489
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: five Billboard charts, three number ones. It's astounding. Like I

490
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 1: knew Milli Vanilli was big, but when you see it

491
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: on paper like that, uh huh, Like you said, like

492
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:49,800
Speaker 1: there's very few people that have ever matched that kind

493
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,040
Speaker 1: of thing. And they were just man the definition of

494
00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,399
Speaker 1: a flash in the pan. They just came on and

495
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:58,560
Speaker 1: blew up and blew out in no time at all.

496
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 1: Tune in, turn out, turnout, tune in. What is it? Okay?

497
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, So they figured that they would be better served

498
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: and probably a little more protected and have more leverage

499
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 2: if they weren't in Germany anymore under the literal thumb

500
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:17,919
Speaker 2: of Frank Ferian. So they relocated to Beverly Hills just

501
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 2: a few months later in June of that year. They

502
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:22,680
Speaker 2: this is my senior of high school, by the way,

503
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:24,280
Speaker 2: just to put that perspective.

504
00:27:23,960 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: Right, I was thirteen going into I was this eighth.

505
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 2: Grade, okay, And by this time I was listening to

506
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 2: The Cure and Ram and the Smiths and Excess and

507
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:35,240
Speaker 2: all that stuff. Like this is when I was like

508
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: starting in like eighty six, eighty seven on, I started

509
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 2: getting into like my little alternative thing. Cool, but I,

510
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: like everyone knew this stuff. You couldn't escape. But I

511
00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 2: was an MTV kid, so I knew all these songs.

512
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:49,880
Speaker 2: It wasn't my thing, but like I can sing them

513
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 2: all still.

514
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:53,240
Speaker 1: The whole world was singing Millie Vanilli at the time,

515
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 1: but baby, are you kidding me? Yeah?

516
00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: So they sign and this is a pretty key detail too,

517
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: with a very big manager, a music manager named Sandy

518
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: Gallon of Gallen Morey Associates and.

519
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 1: You remember him right?

520
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:08,920
Speaker 2: Oh wait, where was that from?

521
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 1: Is Dolly Parton's manager who truss over?

522
00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:14,120
Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I knew that sounded familiar.

523
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: He managed Milli Vanilli and Dolly Parton.

524
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:17,920
Speaker 2: Who else do you need?

525
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:18,760
Speaker 1: Yeah? Really?

526
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:25,120
Speaker 2: All right? So nineteen eighty nine they have blown up.

527
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 2: They became part of the first Club MTV tour alongside

528
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:34,440
Speaker 2: was not Was Information Society, Tone Loake and Paula Abdul.

529
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 2: It's a good tour, good tour. But like the suspicion

530
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 2: that started in Europe followed them here, and like we

531
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,800
Speaker 2: mentioned with the interviews and their accents and broken English, like,

532
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,600
Speaker 2: things started to go a little south here as well,

533
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,560
Speaker 2: to the point where, like just a few months after

534
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,320
Speaker 2: they came here, they stopped doing radio and TV interviews.

535
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, they would only do print. But ironically they were

536
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,000
Speaker 1: allowed to use their voices for an appearance on a

537
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: Super Mario three cartoon where they they play themselves. But

538
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: they're kidnapped by Bowser's daughter and turned into accountants because

539
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 1: they won't performed for her. And if you go watch

540
00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: that clips of that that cartoon, you're like, wow, those

541
00:29:12,480 --> 00:29:15,520
Speaker 1: guys really did not sound anything like they sounded on

542
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: the record.

543
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:20,640
Speaker 2: I saw a clip. I'm sure we both watched like

544
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,240
Speaker 2: tons of clips, but there was one clip where they

545
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,400
Speaker 2: were trying to prove they could sing and they did

546
00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 2: this little a cappella harmony bit and they were just flat.

547
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: It was.

548
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 2: It wasn't like they were completely tone deaf or anything,

549
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: and fab actually can sing a little bit. I think

550
00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,040
Speaker 2: Rob couldn't sing that great, huh, But they you know,

551
00:29:40,120 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 2: they were quote unquote harmonizing and sort of were like

552
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: did you get a load of that? But it was

553
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:46,720
Speaker 2: super flat.

554
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 1: It was. It was not great.

555
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:52,880
Speaker 2: But I think like producers have done more with less

556
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:54,920
Speaker 2: with auto tune and all that stuff. For sure.

557
00:29:55,080 --> 00:29:57,680
Speaker 1: That is a big thing. That's that's something to kind

558
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: of like put it into context, like this is this

559
00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:04,320
Speaker 1: is maybe the world's entrade to what producers exactly did

560
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: and in a way kind of established it is okay

561
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: to start messing with the talent's abilities. Yeah, it made it.

562
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: It was the inflection point where it went from an

563
00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 1: emphasis on talent and creativity to an ability to package

564
00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:23,960
Speaker 1: an artists and sell them. And a lot of people

565
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:29,080
Speaker 1: blame MTV for this happening in MTV says, that's absurd, right, So.

566
00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,040
Speaker 2: We have to talk about what happened in July, and

567
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:35,280
Speaker 2: again this is they had four of their hits after

568
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,239
Speaker 2: July of that year, despite the fact that at a

569
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: concert in Bristol, Connecticut, there were lip syncing very famously.

570
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: It skipped or it got hung up or whatever. Girl,

571
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:49,960
Speaker 2: you know it's true. There's a very brief clip on

572
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: it from a VH one special I Think Behind the

573
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 2: Music where although Livia says that Variety said it wasn't

574
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 2: as dramatic as go you know it's, girl, you know

575
00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:04,320
Speaker 2: it's but that's what it showed in the video, and

576
00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 2: they they didn't know how to handle it. They if

577
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 2: they would have ridden it out, they probably would have

578
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:12,960
Speaker 2: been okay because a lot of like big dancing performers

579
00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: lip sync and everyone kind of knows this at least

580
00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:19,000
Speaker 2: parts of their shows. If they would have stayed up there,

581
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,239
Speaker 2: they might have been okay. But they freaked out and

582
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: Rob ran off stage. In a panic, basically.

583
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:29,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. And it was Downtown Julie Brown, who I

584
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 1: guess was touring with the club MTV tour, oh yeah,

585
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: who talked him into going back out. And I was

586
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 1: reading a Variety article written in twenty twenty about this

587
00:31:38,520 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: and they referred to her as Julie Downtown Brown. And

588
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,040
Speaker 1: I suspect that article was written by a millennial.

589
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, who probably doesn't even know whabbah blabblah blabbah.

590
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: Julie down dumb. Do you remember that? Yeah? Totally.

591
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,240
Speaker 2: I forgot all about that and it just popped into

592
00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:55,760
Speaker 2: my head. Downtown Julie Brown.

593
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. And what's funny is one of the reasons why

594
00:31:57,760 --> 00:31:59,600
Speaker 1: she went by Downtown Julie Brown is because there was

595
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 1: another are equally famous Julie Brown on MTV at the

596
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:07,240
Speaker 1: same time. Remember the redhead of Julie Brown or kind

597
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: of a weird I feel like Phoebe Hermann adjacent type character.

598
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:14,640
Speaker 2: You're not thinking of Judy Tanuda, are you?

599
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,800
Speaker 1: No? I'm not, okay, look up Julie Brown. All right, okay,

600
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:22,520
Speaker 1: I will fine. You have with you right now. Yeah,

601
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:24,000
Speaker 1: I'll keep talking if you want to.

602
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, go ahead, take this next bit so that was

603
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 2: like a big deal.

604
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: That Bristol, Connecticut show to them. They felt like that

605
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of the end, and even still

606
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,280
Speaker 1: in later interviews they would point to that as like

607
00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: that was the beginning of the end of Millie Vanilli.

608
00:32:38,320 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 1: They knew that this this act that they've been carrying

609
00:32:42,320 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: on was unraveling, basically, and they later said that they

610
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 1: were unhappy, nervous, scared, stressed the entire time, and they

611
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: kept partying. A lot of people say that they kept

612
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,479
Speaker 1: partying because they were so stressed. I don't know if

613
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,440
Speaker 1: that's true not, but they it's understandable that they would

614
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,320
Speaker 1: have been kind of stressed.

615
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 2: By the way Julie Brown. I totally recognize her now, sure,

616
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,000
Speaker 2: and that's who I was thinking of. And I might

617
00:33:12,040 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: have said Julie t Nuda. It was Judy Tanuda, the comedian.

618
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: Yeah you said Judy.

619
00:33:15,480 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 2: I think I did. Okay, I think I thought that

620
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: was Judy Tananuda. But I totally remember Julie Brown now.

621
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 1: But she's similar in character, not quite as like over

622
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: the top as Judy Tanuda, but similar in.

623
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,320
Speaker 2: A flamboyant Yeah, yeah, for sure, she was great. I

624
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 2: wasn't listening to you Where Were You?

625
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,800
Speaker 1: I was talking about how they were stressed and nervous

626
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:37,479
Speaker 1: all the time and now they felt like this thing

627
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: was really unraveling, and that they called the Bristol, Connecticut

628
00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: show the beginning of the end.

629
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. So while this is going on, like

630
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: Millie Vanilli is having all this chart success, but they

631
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:52,560
Speaker 2: were never a critical darling. No, in fact, they were

632
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,479
Speaker 2: and I think people for sure piled on a lot

633
00:33:55,600 --> 00:33:59,520
Speaker 2: more after the Secret came out, but even before that,

634
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 2: they became a little bit of a symbol of what

635
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:08,440
Speaker 2: serious music critics kind of thought was the unraveling of

636
00:34:08,560 --> 00:34:11,279
Speaker 2: pop music and how shallow it was and how like

637
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 2: overproduced and arranged everything was and kind of the worst

638
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:20,399
Speaker 2: version of what pop music ultimately became before it kind

639
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:21,240
Speaker 2: of course corrected.

640
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, And a lot of that came from the usual

641
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,239
Speaker 1: suspects the rock community, who yeah, arranged themselves as like

642
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: the arbiters of what was music and what was not. Yeah.

643
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 1: And now that we're at this part, I really regret

644
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 1: talking about whether that was rap or not and the

645
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:39,120
Speaker 1: girl you know it's true song because it's essentially the

646
00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: same thing. But yes, Milli Vanilli was an easy target,

647
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,800
Speaker 1: even before they were outed as frauds, right, Yeah, so

648
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:49,120
Speaker 1: I think that made it all the more sweet for

649
00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 1: the people who were rooting against them to have their

650
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:56,720
Speaker 1: wildest dreams come true and Milli Vanilli be outed as frauds,

651
00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: Like there are people rooting against them again though, like

652
00:35:00,840 --> 00:35:03,439
Speaker 1: this is a this is a really complicating factor, Chuck,

653
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,879
Speaker 1: how much of Millie Vanilli's popularity then, if the music

654
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:10,440
Speaker 1: wasn't that good, or you know, if you were a

655
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 1: music critic, how much of Milli Vanilli's like success came

656
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:17,520
Speaker 1: from Robin Fab and the work that they were doing.

657
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: They definitely did some work. At the very peak, they

658
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 1: did one hundred and seven cities in an eight month tour.

659
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: That's a lot of work. And also people loved to

660
00:35:29,360 --> 00:35:31,359
Speaker 1: let like their look, They thought they were hot. They

661
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:35,200
Speaker 1: loved their dances, that that little dance move where they

662
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: faced one another and just like kind of ran in

663
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:42,839
Speaker 1: place in front of everyone was doing that. Everyone did

664
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: that dance move, whether they were serious or not, everyone

665
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,520
Speaker 1: was doing that dance bood. So, how much of their

666
00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 1: popularity can you you know, ascribe to Rob and Fab

667
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: And I would say quite a bit.

668
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, I mean one hundred and seven shows. I'm

669
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:58,440
Speaker 2: fairly tired from our big three show swing that we

670
00:35:58,600 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: just did.

671
00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, way, thank you DC Boston in

672
00:36:01,640 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 1: Toronto for fun times.

673
00:36:03,719 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was great shows. These guys also didn't do

674
00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:10,319
Speaker 2: themselves a lot of favors. I think, in particular Rob,

675
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: who was a little bit more vocal, just because I

676
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,959
Speaker 2: think he felt more comfortable speaking English in front of microphones,

677
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 2: and I you know, looking back though, like the guy

678
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,200
Speaker 2: was probably scared and defensive. But he would say some

679
00:36:24,320 --> 00:36:26,400
Speaker 2: kind of dumb stuff sometimes like in an article or

680
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,239
Speaker 2: a lest stuff that wouldn't do him any favors. I

681
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 2: can't remember which magazine, but when I think it's time,

682
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 2: there's a quote here where he says, musically, we're more

683
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,920
Speaker 2: talented than any Bob Dylan. Musically, we're more talented than

684
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 2: Paul McCartney, Mick Jagger. His lines are not clear. He

685
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:46,800
Speaker 2: don't know how he should produce a sound. I'm the

686
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 2: new modern rock and roll, I'm the new Elvis.

687
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:54,600
Speaker 1: So Rob said that that was wildly taking out of context,

688
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: that he didn't say anything like that. The clothes direct quote, right,

689
00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: I know, But the closest that he says he said

690
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 1: was that, you know, Elvis was huge in his generation

691
00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:09,360
Speaker 1: and they're huge in their generation. Whether he was misquoted

692
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 1: or not, this is a potential pr disaster for this

693
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:22,240
Speaker 1: obviously short lived group. So everybody involved, the record label,

694
00:37:22,520 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: Ferry and their managers all decided that they needed to

695
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 1: go on a press tour to basically, you know, explain

696
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:31,879
Speaker 1: this away. And then somebody else decided that they needed

697
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:36,040
Speaker 1: to work a medley of The Beatles, the Rolling Stones

698
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: and Bob Dylan into their show and they were going

699
00:37:41,120 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 1: to go forward on it, and Robin fab or the

700
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: two that had the sense to be like, that's a

701
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: terrible idea, We're not going to do that, So they

702
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 1: dropped that. But that was how they were going to

703
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: show that they didn't think they were bigger than The Stones,

704
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: the Beatles and Bob Dylan by doing a medley of

705
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:02,560
Speaker 1: their songs at their lives. Great idea, I think so too.

706
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:06,320
Speaker 2: All right, let's take our second break and we're gonna

707
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 2: come back and talk about the rest right after this.

708
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,760
Speaker 2: All right, So here's the question, which is and Lvia

709
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:41,160
Speaker 2: titles this section that who knew what when, because that's

710
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:44,920
Speaker 2: sort of the big question. So Rob and Fab, their manager,

711
00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 2: Sandy Gallon, Clive Davis, and it seems like a lot

712
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:52,319
Speaker 2: of people on the inside in the music scene knew

713
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: this was going on in the summer of nineteen eighty nine,

714
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 2: like while they were putting out these songs and having

715
00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 2: these big hits. There's a guy named Todd Headley who

716
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:05,719
Speaker 2: used to work for Milli Vanilly. I believe he ended

717
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 2: up being their manager at a certain point afterward when

718
00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: they were just Robin Fab. But he said, you know,

719
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 2: everyone that was connected to this knew this. I don't

720
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: know like necessarily when, but everybody knew this. As far

721
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,320
Speaker 2: as Arista goes. They said, well, we didn't know it.

722
00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:26,320
Speaker 2: Frank Ferrian I guess I bet you there was some

723
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 2: handshake deal or something going on. Yeah, because he took

724
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:32,080
Speaker 2: He basically came out very vehemently saying that like, no,

725
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:36,520
Speaker 2: I Rista didn't know anything about this, right, But everyone

726
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 2: knew basically on the inside.

727
00:39:38,719 --> 00:39:41,279
Speaker 1: Yes, But all of those people publicly said that they

728
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: did not know. I mean, can you imagine the record

729
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,319
Speaker 1: company being like, we had no idea. These guys didn't

730
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,279
Speaker 1: sing on the on the tracks. Yeah, but that's what

731
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,480
Speaker 1: they said. So and the whole time. Remember, just bear

732
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: in mind they kept trying to fight to sing, like

733
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,799
Speaker 1: their whole sideline was trying to convince Frank Ferry unto

734
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,719
Speaker 1: let them sing on the next album. Right, And so

735
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: finally I believe that the whole thing came to a head.

736
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was evidence. I'm sorry. There was evidence

737
00:40:11,239 --> 00:40:15,279
Speaker 1: that shows that at least Clive Davis from Arista knew

738
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: that this was going on, because they seed him on

739
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:21,319
Speaker 1: letters from their lawyers demanding that Frank Ferry and let

740
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,520
Speaker 1: them sing on the next album. So if Clive Davis

741
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: wasn't like, what do you mean on the next album?

742
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,040
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't you let him sing? If he didn't look

743
00:40:29,080 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: into it, that's so bad. The implication is that he

744
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 1: wouldn't have looked into it because he knew exactly what

745
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:34,759
Speaker 1: that meant.

746
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:35,319
Speaker 2: Right.

747
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,360
Speaker 1: So the whole thing came to a head with the

748
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,479
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety Grammy ceremony, right.

749
00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:43,440
Speaker 2: That's right. They were, you know, obviously going to be

750
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:47,839
Speaker 2: a strong contender for Best New Artists. As the story goes,

751
00:40:48,239 --> 00:40:50,680
Speaker 2: Clive Davis did not want to submit them because he

752
00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:54,400
Speaker 2: knew it was a fraud, but Sandy Gallon and the

753
00:40:54,480 --> 00:40:57,759
Speaker 2: management company said nope, We're going to submit him. They

754
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: won Best of course, they won Best New Art Artists

755
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,360
Speaker 2: at the Grammy who else would and they performed at

756
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:06,000
Speaker 2: the ceremony, lip synced at the ceremony.

757
00:41:06,120 --> 00:41:08,920
Speaker 1: They owned the Grammys that year, they did, and.

758
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,200
Speaker 2: The producer the Grammys was basically later on, just like,

759
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:13,560
Speaker 2: you know, everybody really sings. Is one of the few

760
00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 2: times in forty years of doing this that I've let

761
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 2: someone lip sync. But that is where things kind of

762
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:24,319
Speaker 2: went downhill. I think the Grammys later said, like, all

763
00:41:24,400 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 2: you had to do was put somewhere on the record,

764
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,160
Speaker 2: even in the smallest print, like Millie Vanilli is unless

765
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,120
Speaker 2: the original singers, But like, we can't let you keep

766
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:36,560
Speaker 2: these Grammys, So we got to take them back.

767
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: Right, And they actually fully intended to. Apparently the day

768
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 1: after the Grammys said we want our Grammys back, Michael Green,

769
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,839
Speaker 1: the president of it, said we want our Grammys back,

770
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,040
Speaker 1: something along those lines. They had already had a press

771
00:41:51,080 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 1: comfort schedule where they intended to give them back.

772
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 2: They'll not give them back, give them to those singers, right.

773
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,239
Speaker 1: Initially they had wanted to, and apparently the Grammys were like,

774
00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: do not give those to anybody. It's not up to

775
00:42:00,640 --> 00:42:02,800
Speaker 1: you to give them the anyone. And the question is

776
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:04,440
Speaker 1: whether or not they were going to give the Grammy

777
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,239
Speaker 1: to the next runner up. I can't remember. I think

778
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: Tone Loke, Information Society, I can't remember who else, But

779
00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:17,040
Speaker 1: they didn't. There was no Grammy for Best New Artists

780
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: given out for nineteen ninety because Millie Vanilli's was taken back.

781
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,080
Speaker 1: And at that press conference, they had their voice coach

782
00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: stand up and say, yeah, these guys can sing. I

783
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:33,800
Speaker 1: totally attest to that, And yeah, that was where you

784
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that they kind of like wrapped and sang

785
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: just these little snippets to show that they could, and

786
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,320
Speaker 1: it wasn't very good. Yeah, but that was It was

787
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:48,880
Speaker 1: a very fateful press conference. But if you watch it,

788
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: they don't seem at all nervous. They seem like they're

789
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:56,080
Speaker 1: soaking in the love still. And I read that during

790
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: this time they expected the music industry to take them

791
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,279
Speaker 1: back with arms, because they'd done so much to make

792
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,959
Speaker 1: Millie Vanilla huge. That just did not happen, all.

793
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:10,320
Speaker 2: Right, So that the Grammy snapo was on November nineteenth,

794
00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety. This happened because five days earlier, Frank Farrion

795
00:43:15,080 --> 00:43:18,440
Speaker 2: finally came out because these guys would not stop asking

796
00:43:18,520 --> 00:43:21,759
Speaker 2: him to sing, and it was not only annoying to

797
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: Frank Farrian, but he was in between a rock and

798
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: a hard places, like can this thing even go on anymore?

799
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,440
Speaker 2: So he figured it can't go on. I'm going to

800
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: hold a press conference. I'm going to expose everything. He

801
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:36,480
Speaker 2: disclosed it all and he said, you know, still Arista

802
00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: didn't know anything about this, and Arista they were this.

803
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 2: This guy, the VP of Operations, Roy Lott, had a

804
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 2: quote where he was like, seven million albums embarrassing? Am

805
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:49,399
Speaker 2: I embarrassed? You know, I don't mean the njustified the means,

806
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 2: but we sold seven million albums And I'm like, dude,

807
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 2: that's the very definition of the end justified thing exactly.

808
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 2: I don't think you know what that means.

809
00:43:57,400 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. So there was a very wide ranging impact from this,

810
00:44:02,719 --> 00:44:04,600
Speaker 1: like we've kind of talked about, like a lot of

811
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,880
Speaker 1: people pointed to this and said, see, see, like this

812
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 1: isn't about the actual music or the creativity or the

813
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,359
Speaker 1: talent anymore. It's about packaging people as artists so much

814
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:17,120
Speaker 1: so that they didn't even sing on the album. That

815
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 1: was the big thing. If it didn't come out that

816
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: they were lip syncing in concerts, they could have pointed

817
00:44:21,160 --> 00:44:24,160
Speaker 1: to everybody from Janet Jackson to Paul Abduel and said,

818
00:44:24,520 --> 00:44:27,600
Speaker 1: they lip SYNCD too. You can't really sing well when

819
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:31,279
Speaker 1: you're doing these incredible choreographed dances throughout a whole show.

820
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: So of course their lip syncing. It wasn't that it

821
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 1: was that they didn't even sing on the album, that

822
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 1: they had nothing to do with the music aside from

823
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,400
Speaker 1: the visuals. That that's what really kind of got everybody.

824
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: But one of the things that it definitely exposes that

825
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,240
Speaker 1: this is not a standalone incident.

826
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 2: No, And it was well known in the music industry

827
00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:55,320
Speaker 2: that this happened. Martha Wall she was part of the

828
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,640
Speaker 2: Weather Girls who had the great song It's Raining Men.

829
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 2: She was the one who sang that part on the

830
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,840
Speaker 2: and See Music Factory hit. They again, they hired a

831
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 2: model slash singer to sort of pretend like she had

832
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 2: done it.

833
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,799
Speaker 1: Without her knowledge. Oh yeah.

834
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 2: The Village People had always been rumored to have not

835
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,320
Speaker 2: been the actual singers like that first version of the

836
00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,759
Speaker 2: Village People. And I tried to find out if that

837
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 2: was true, and I really couldn't see anything definite, but

838
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 2: a lot of people were doing this kind of thing

839
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 2: here and there. Lawsuits started to be people I think

840
00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,160
Speaker 2: were just sort of fed up, though, And it was

841
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 2: the end of the eighties, and I think people, I

842
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: think styles were changing and tastes were changing, and they're like,

843
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:37,680
Speaker 2: we don't want fake music, Like you should start putting

844
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,520
Speaker 2: like truth on labels, like this wasn't recorded by this,

845
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:46,880
Speaker 2: like truth and music labeling. Fans filed class action lawsuits

846
00:45:47,320 --> 00:45:50,560
Speaker 2: about Millie Vanilly and it was settled by getting up

847
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 2: to three dollars from BMG and Arista if you could say,

848
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 2: like here's my concert ticket or here's the album that

849
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,800
Speaker 2: I bought fairy and and you kind of alluded to

850
00:45:59,840 --> 00:46:03,880
Speaker 2: this early on, and I sort of agree, like it

851
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,759
Speaker 2: was a fraud, but he was also like this is

852
00:46:06,920 --> 00:46:10,440
Speaker 2: pop music, and like who cares in Europe? Like no

853
00:46:10,520 --> 00:46:13,240
Speaker 2: one cares, It's no big deal. Like everyone in America

854
00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,800
Speaker 2: got so riled up about this, and like, you know,

855
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,760
Speaker 2: these guys made a couple of million bucks.

856
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:18,959
Speaker 1: I made money.

857
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 2: The guys who really sang it ended up making money,

858
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 2: Like who cares?

859
00:46:23,360 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: Right?

860
00:46:24,200 --> 00:46:26,280
Speaker 2: And I sort of get that a little bit because

861
00:46:27,400 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: there's a lot more things to be getting a huff about,

862
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 2: but I also get it in a way.

863
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:35,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think now we do. But we do

864
00:46:35,600 --> 00:46:39,279
Speaker 1: now because of the rough transition that we went through

865
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: by being so so let down by Miller Vanilli, I

866
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 1: wasn't let down flyar so Robin Fab again. They were

867
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:51,200
Speaker 1: expecting to just basically be welcome back into the fold

868
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:53,439
Speaker 1: pretty quickly. That this was basically just a speed bump,

869
00:46:53,480 --> 00:46:55,920
Speaker 1: and now, more than anything, they were released from this

870
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,200
Speaker 1: golden prison they were in. They didn't have to be

871
00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,240
Speaker 1: stressed out about people finding out their secret any longer.

872
00:47:01,640 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: And now finally they could do their own music, and

873
00:47:05,120 --> 00:47:08,359
Speaker 1: they actually released an album called Robin Fab using their

874
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 1: real voices. They showed up on the Arsenio Hall Show

875
00:47:11,920 --> 00:47:14,239
Speaker 1: to sing live, which they had turned down before because

876
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,880
Speaker 1: the Arsenio Hall Show required performers to perform live, no

877
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:20,000
Speaker 1: lip syncing. So now this is kind of like a

878
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,960
Speaker 1: triumphant appearance on the Arsenio Hall Show. Their album sold

879
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 1: two thousand copies in the US and that was it.

880
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was a big flop. I did not know

881
00:47:30,200 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 2: until today that they did a cover version on that

882
00:47:33,640 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 2: album of Cheap Tricks I want you to want me.

883
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:37,439
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn't know that either.

884
00:47:38,520 --> 00:47:39,040
Speaker 2: Listen to it.

885
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:42,480
Speaker 1: I definitely will. But so a lot of people are like, yeah,

886
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 1: of course it was a flop. They were frauds. I

887
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,279
Speaker 1: think that one of the reasons, probably the biggest reason

888
00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: it was a flop, is that they released it in

889
00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:53,200
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety three, and nineteen ninety and nineteen ninety three

890
00:47:53,520 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: were situated into totally different worlds because Nevermind had come

891
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 1: out in September nineteen ninety one, and no one cared

892
00:48:01,239 --> 00:48:04,160
Speaker 1: a lick about anything that seens THEE Music Factory or

893
00:48:04,239 --> 00:48:07,960
Speaker 1: Black Fox or Millie Vanilly was putting out. All they

894
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: wanted was more and more Nirvana and grunge, and give

895
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:12,200
Speaker 1: it to us, give us Pearl Jam, give us all

896
00:48:12,320 --> 00:48:14,520
Speaker 1: that stuff. That's all we care about. So I think

897
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 1: that that at least accounts for a significant reason why

898
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:18,120
Speaker 1: it was such a flop.

899
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, bad timing for sure, and for I mean that

900
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 2: changed all of music. That's when the metal bands were all,

901
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:26,759
Speaker 2: I go, what are we supposed to do now? It

902
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:31,040
Speaker 2: was a big transition. As far as Robin fab If

903
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: you haven't seen the behind the music, some pretty sad

904
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 2: stuff happened afterward. Rob had a pretty rough life after that.

905
00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:42,400
Speaker 2: He had a suicide attempt in ninety one. He was

906
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,719
Speaker 2: in rehab quite a few times. He was arrested a

907
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,800
Speaker 2: few times. They eventually were going to get back together

908
00:48:48,880 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 2: in nineteen ninety eight to work on something, but on

909
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 2: April seventh of that year, he was found dead in

910
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,480
Speaker 2: a hotel room. And everyone basically agrees that it was

911
00:48:58,520 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 2: an accidental overdose of alcohol and pills, and Fab, you know,

912
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,960
Speaker 2: was heartbroken and put out a pretty app statement I

913
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 2: think was Millie Vanilli was not a disgrace. The only

914
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:15,400
Speaker 2: disgrace is how Rob died all alone. Where were the

915
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:17,680
Speaker 2: ones that pushed us to the top, who made millions?

916
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:21,120
Speaker 2: And it's just that familiar story of sort of getting

917
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 2: used and then kicked to the curb and forgotten about,

918
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:27,959
Speaker 2: you know, chewed up by a bit more powerful people.

919
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, so Fab. Actually they were both really like

920
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:36,880
Speaker 1: into drugs and drinking, and Fab made it out. I

921
00:49:37,000 --> 00:49:40,360
Speaker 1: read that he paid for one of Rob's stints in rehab,

922
00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: so he made it out. He still sings today. In

923
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:47,880
Speaker 1: twenty fifteen, he joined up with John Davis, one of

924
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:51,320
Speaker 1: the original singers of Millie Vanilli, and they toured I

925
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: think as face meets Voice. Yeah. So they performed some

926
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: of Milli Vanilli's songs on tour. And one thing that

927
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:02,160
Speaker 1: I am so looking forward to I can't even stand

928
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:05,759
Speaker 1: it is apparently, finally, at long last, we're going to

929
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: get a Milli Vanilli biopic. Yeah. Did you see these

930
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:11,560
Speaker 1: guys that are playing them? No? Is it dead on?

931
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,200
Speaker 2: Oh? I'm texting you right now.

932
00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,720
Speaker 1: Dude, better than ice Cube son playing ice Cube.

933
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:18,720
Speaker 2: Oh, I didn't know that was happening.

934
00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,480
Speaker 1: No, that was in Uh what was the NWA biopic?

935
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:23,799
Speaker 2: Oh?

936
00:50:23,960 --> 00:50:25,840
Speaker 1: Was he in that? Yeah? He played ice Cube. That

937
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: was ice Cube's kid.

938
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,239
Speaker 2: Straight out of con Oh no, ice Cube. I thought

939
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: I thought you said Vanilla Ice.

940
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:32,480
Speaker 1: No.

941
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:36,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I can't remember his name. The he was

942
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:38,440
Speaker 2: in Cocaine Beer Too, the movie you hated it?

943
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 1: I know. Vanilla Ice biopic, by the way, is called

944
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:42,879
Speaker 1: cool as Ice.

945
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:44,640
Speaker 2: Is that a real thing too?

946
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:46,839
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's not really a biopic, but it kind

947
00:50:46,880 --> 00:50:48,479
Speaker 1: of is. Did you see the picture?

948
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: Do you have your phone?

949
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: I do?

950
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 2: Sorry, look at these guys, two unknowns. I think they

951
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,120
Speaker 2: spent years trying to find the right people. But it's

952
00:50:56,160 --> 00:51:03,360
Speaker 2: a guy named Ilan Bin Ali is fab name tijon Niji.

953
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:05,320
Speaker 2: I'm not sure to pronounce that. I go as the

954
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,840
Speaker 2: best as I can do. And they look these guys up.

955
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 2: They are in costume as Millie Vanilli, and it's uncanny

956
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:13,359
Speaker 2: how much they look like those guys.

957
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,360
Speaker 1: It definitely is. It's pretty pretty well, that's really something.

958
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:17,319
Speaker 1: I can't wait to see it.

959
00:51:17,520 --> 00:51:18,839
Speaker 2: So I hope it's going to be good.

960
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:21,160
Speaker 1: And supposedly a lot of people who are involved in

961
00:51:21,239 --> 00:51:25,480
Speaker 1: the actual band, like or their relatives, are associate or

962
00:51:25,560 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: executive producers on this movie too, so it should be

963
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 1: pretty authentic.

964
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,120
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think the icing on top is the executive

965
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:36,360
Speaker 2: producer was the was that guy who runs three hundred

966
00:51:36,480 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 2: Entertainment now who was the original lyricist for Girl You Know?

967
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:40,479
Speaker 1: It's true?

968
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:42,279
Speaker 2: Pretty amazing, isn't that cool?

969
00:51:42,920 --> 00:51:45,160
Speaker 1: Very cool? And if you want to see something really cute.

970
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:47,360
Speaker 1: When you me and I were doing our Milli Vanilli

971
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,680
Speaker 1: research on YouTube last night, we ran across a channel

972
00:51:50,719 --> 00:51:54,839
Speaker 1: called Africa React and it's this super cute girl who

973
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 1: listens to songs that she'd never heard for the first

974
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: time and it's just reaction videos. But one of the

975
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,560
Speaker 1: ones she did was Girl you Know it's true, and

976
00:52:02,040 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 1: she gave an official thumbs up to it. It's really cute. Cool. Yeah,

977
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,600
Speaker 1: those were fun. You got anything else? Nothing else? All right, everybody?

978
00:52:08,640 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: That means it's time for listener mail.

979
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna call this. My husband fell asleep at your

980
00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:21,200
Speaker 2: show in Boston. Hey, guys, got tickets to the Medford

981
00:52:21,239 --> 00:52:23,120
Speaker 2: show and was excited to see folks live for the

982
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,319
Speaker 2: first time. My husband agreed to join me and met

983
00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:28,279
Speaker 2: me in Medford after a few days at a work

984
00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:30,560
Speaker 2: conference in New York. We took our seats, and just

985
00:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: as the lights went down and you all appeared on stage,

986
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,680
Speaker 2: we laughed at your jokes, we owed at the topic,

987
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,400
Speaker 2: and settled in to be educated. Much to my surprise,

988
00:52:38,480 --> 00:52:40,919
Speaker 2: I noticed my husband next to me doing the head

989
00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: bob and bouncing, beginning to nod off. About ten minutes

990
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 2: in Wow, he dozed off all I did my best

991
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:50,239
Speaker 2: to keep from leaning over onto the guy next to us.

992
00:52:50,719 --> 00:52:52,919
Speaker 2: He finally did wake up after the second commercial break

993
00:52:53,480 --> 00:52:55,800
Speaker 2: and enjoyed the ending. He claims that I've been conditioning

994
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:58,160
Speaker 2: him to fall asleep when stuff he should know starts,

995
00:52:58,160 --> 00:53:01,000
Speaker 2: but I believe it may have been and the let

996
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: down from the excitement of the conference and the work trip,

997
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,320
Speaker 2: but we both had a great time. Wouldn't hesitate to

998
00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:08,160
Speaker 2: see you live again someday, and thanks so much for

999
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,200
Speaker 2: taking a trip up north. I'm not gonna read Maggie's

1000
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,920
Speaker 2: last name because her husband may be embarrassed, so that

1001
00:53:14,080 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 2: is just from Maggie in the Northeast.

1002
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,040
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot, Maggie, that's hilarious. The idea of your

1003
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:24,480
Speaker 1: husband I'm falling asleep to us normally and then having

1004
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:26,959
Speaker 1: it half an in person too because he's so easy.

1005
00:53:27,000 --> 00:53:28,719
Speaker 1: I love it. I love it too well. If you

1006
00:53:28,760 --> 00:53:30,560
Speaker 1: want to be like Maggie and get in touch with us,

1007
00:53:30,719 --> 00:53:33,279
Speaker 1: we love it when people do that, you can send

1008
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:36,480
Speaker 1: us an email to Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot com.

1009
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1010
00:53:42,719 --> 00:53:46,840
Speaker 1: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1011
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,840
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.