WEBVTT - Barefoot Running: The Best Podcast Episode in History 0:00:01.120 --> 0:00:03.400 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:12.600 Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:12.640 --> 0:00:15.680 I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w. Chuck, Brian over there, 0:00:15.680 --> 0:00:18.680 and there's Jerry over there, and this is Stuff you 0:00:18.680 --> 0:00:25.440 should know about barefoot running. Colin, don't do it, Colin, 0:00:26.760 --> 0:00:32.839 says Chuck Colan, Josh says, do it if you want. Oh, 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:34.400 it's just because it's running, has nothing to do with 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.400 being barefoot. Uh oh really, I got you. Yeah, man, 0:00:38.440 --> 0:00:40.680 I don't know. I'm not a fan of running. I 0:00:40.840 --> 0:00:43.720 love it. I love walking, but I don't think. I 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:46.199 don't know. Have you just tried to walk faster? Oh? 0:00:46.240 --> 0:00:49.440 I walk exercise walk super fast? I'm kidding, By the way, 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.960 walking fast and running are not the same thing. No, No, 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:56.040 I don't know, man, it's just a lot of wear 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:58.720 on your body. I don't think humans we're meant to 0:00:58.800 --> 0:01:01.360 run like this. Well, and Chuck, you would be running 0:01:01.360 --> 0:01:05.440 a foul of an entire subgroup of people who believe 0:01:05.520 --> 0:01:09.120 that not only humans should be running barefoot, but that 0:01:09.160 --> 0:01:13.800 we're actually designed to run long distances. Yeah. I think 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:17.200 the idea was that we evolved and this sounds crazy 0:01:17.240 --> 0:01:20.280 to me. We evolved to run long distances so we 0:01:20.319 --> 0:01:25.360 could eventually just outrun animals who got tired before we did. Yeah, 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:28.480 that's crazy. Yeah, so animal just gonna run after this 0:01:28.520 --> 0:01:32.840 animal boar until it gets tired. Sure, that doesn't make 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:38.600 sense to you. Sure if that's true. Well that's the thing. 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:41.760 It's like they could also spears and bows and arrows, 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.200 which they did, which probably means they didn't like running 0:01:44.200 --> 0:01:47.080 after animals. Right, But if you speared an animal, it 0:01:47.120 --> 0:01:49.480 doesn't mean it's gonna drop dead where you speared it. 0:01:49.600 --> 0:01:51.640 You might have to chase after it. Well, that's when 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:56.240 you do the fast walk. Can you imagine like took 0:01:56.240 --> 0:01:59.440 Took doing like the sport walking over the tundra kind 0:01:59.440 --> 0:02:02.800 of because the nice it would be. Um, okay, so 0:02:03.440 --> 0:02:05.760 we should probably tell everybody what the heck we're talking 0:02:05.800 --> 0:02:08.919 about in general, So I'm out running without shoes yea, 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:12.320 or with those minimal There are different versions of how 0:02:12.360 --> 0:02:16.799 minimal those shoes get. Yeah, so this this the whole thing, 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:21.240 Like started this idea of like, hey man, you know 0:02:21.280 --> 0:02:23.880 those running shoes, you got chuck them off and just 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:28.000 start running barefoot and you'll be glad that you did that. 0:02:28.080 --> 0:02:33.640 All started around two yeah yeah, um, and it is 0:02:33.840 --> 0:02:36.520 definitely hit its high water market, got a lot of press. 0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:38.840 It was a huge trend in running, and then it 0:02:38.960 --> 0:02:42.399 seems to have kind of crested and waned and now 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:46.080 it's back. But the running world has changed forever because 0:02:46.080 --> 0:02:49.040 of it. But from what I understand, there's not like 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.799 a lot of people who are barefoot running these days. 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:53.840 I don't. I mean, I don't think it's has swept 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:56.400 the nation. It did for a minute, but there are 0:02:56.400 --> 0:03:01.600 definitely people who adhere to the philosophy of your body 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:06.040 will adjust because we were meant to. We ran barefoot 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.880 for you know, eighty million years, right, Well, that's one 0:03:09.880 --> 0:03:13.240 of the implications of that is that and some people 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:16.160 suspect not only are you supposed to run barefoot, but 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:23.120 that running with shoes, including very expensive, highly designed running shoes, 0:03:23.800 --> 0:03:26.840 are actually going to increase your your chances of injury 0:03:27.080 --> 0:03:29.200 or that wear and tear on your joints. Now you're 0:03:29.240 --> 0:03:32.560 better off running barefoot. But sounds totally countertuitive until you 0:03:32.600 --> 0:03:35.560 stop and think, they say, hey, man, how long have 0:03:35.640 --> 0:03:38.480 we been running in running shoes? For shoes of any kind, 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:41.360 I think the oldest shoes that um have been found 0:03:41.760 --> 0:03:44.640 were actually found in Oregon. Uh, and they're like ten 0:03:44.680 --> 0:03:47.920 thousand four years old. They're called Fort Rock sandals. They 0:03:47.920 --> 0:03:52.040 were called prefontaines. Right. Should we talk a little bit 0:03:52.040 --> 0:03:54.680 about the history of the running shoe? Obviously not as 0:03:54.680 --> 0:03:59.720 long as that pretty exhaustive lists from mental itch. Um 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:03.080 it it's supposedly the running shoe goes back a couple 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:07.040 of hundred years. Yeah, something like that. The sneaker at 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.600 least goes back a couple of hundred years. Um. I 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:14.040 think in eighty two, a guy named Wait Webster. It's 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.159 either wait or Wyatt, but it's spelled like weight W 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:22.680 A n T. Anyway, we'll call him Senior Webster. He 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:25.919 came up with a way of attaching a rubber soul 0:04:26.560 --> 0:04:31.960 to upper a shoe, um, which really kind of changed 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:34.240 shoes in general. Like people were like, hey, these shoes 0:04:34.240 --> 0:04:36.719 are actually going to last, whereas before it was like 0:04:36.800 --> 0:04:39.720 all leather and they fell apart in the rain really quickly. 0:04:40.240 --> 0:04:43.320 These rubber souls could really kind of you know, take 0:04:43.360 --> 0:04:45.760 the take the impact that you put on your body 0:04:45.800 --> 0:04:48.479 when your foot hits the ground, and they weren't going 0:04:48.520 --> 0:04:50.560 to come apart because you could really attach him to 0:04:50.640 --> 0:04:53.800 an upper Yeah, and um, the word sneakers comes from 0:04:53.839 --> 0:04:55.719 the fact that they were quiet. They were the first 0:04:55.839 --> 0:05:01.360 shoes that didn't clip clap around like Jerry's elementary school 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.200 principal shoes she had on last week. Uh. So they 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:06.760 were sneaks or sneakers because you could sneak around. And 0:05:06.800 --> 0:05:09.719 I saw that that was invented by the British. But 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:13.880 then the British went back to calling their sneakers. I 0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.240 think plim souls. That's what they call them today, is 0:05:17.279 --> 0:05:19.720 palm souls, which were like kids shoes back then, right, 0:05:19.760 --> 0:05:21.839 But we call them sneakers here, and then what we 0:05:21.920 --> 0:05:25.240 call running shoes they call trainers. Right. I think they 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.080 still say trainers, don't they Yes, So I feel like yeah, 0:05:28.160 --> 0:05:29.960 and I think they still say plim souls and they 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:33.800 still say garage lift and flat sure and lou and 0:05:33.880 --> 0:05:38.000 Lorie and all that, and aluminium and in herbs. Right. 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.159 The only one I really take issue with is aluminium. Really, 0:05:41.279 --> 0:05:45.880 it's just wrong. I'm sorry, u K, but it's wrong. 0:05:45.920 --> 0:05:49.800 Even when like David Attenborough says it, or Richard Attenburgh 0:05:49.880 --> 0:05:52.400 or any Edinburgh I'm not saying it doesn't sound pleasant. 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:55.760 I'm just saying it's wrong. Okay, okay, this was interesting too. 0:05:55.880 --> 0:05:58.280 The first I didn't know that Reebok went back so far. 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:03.359 They were the Bolton Company initially Joseph William Foster was 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:06.880 the founder. In eighteen fifty two he developed the first 0:06:06.960 --> 0:06:10.160 running spikes. And it sounds like in the eighteen sixties, 0:06:10.200 --> 0:06:13.680 for like the next decade, running spikes were just sort 0:06:13.720 --> 0:06:17.640 of shoes with spikes, like regular shoes with spikes on them. Yeah, 0:06:17.680 --> 0:06:19.480 and you would hope that they'd flatten out the end 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:21.720 that pressed against your feet, but I suspect that they 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:25.480 didn't always, not to your satisfaction. Right. And then of 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:29.640 course other developments in the seventies air cushion shoes, uh. 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:34.000 And then eventually the the gel insert or not insert, 0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:38.000 but the gel cushion heel, and that was from a 0:06:38.160 --> 0:06:41.919 sex in the nineteen eighties. And I always thought that 0:06:41.960 --> 0:06:45.599 was kind of a scam, but apparently close to more 0:06:45.680 --> 0:06:48.880 displacement of impact than the air technology. Yeah. And the 0:06:48.920 --> 0:06:52.279 air technology had been invented I think a decade or 0:06:52.360 --> 0:06:56.200 so before NASA, right may by a guy named Frank 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:00.480 Rudy and um he worked with Nike to add air 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:04.880 to the souls so that this compressed gas would distribute 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:07.640 the force that you were putting on your shoe and 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.840 make it easier on your joints back up stream. Yeah, 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:12.960 but if you if you ask the shoe companies, they're 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.360 saying that they have developed this technology over the years 0:07:15.360 --> 0:07:19.040 to help runners. If you asked a skeptic and a 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.880 barefoot enthusiasts, they'll say, man, this running shoe thing is 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.320 just a big marketing, money making scam, because they what 0:07:27.440 --> 0:07:30.840 they point to is, okay, the modern running shoe. Actually 0:07:30.880 --> 0:07:32.640 it was New Balance that came up with the modern 0:07:32.680 --> 0:07:35.080 running shoe in nineteen sixty that with their track Ster. 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:39.640 But most people point to the seventies and Nikes waffles 0:07:39.680 --> 0:07:43.600 shoe is like the birth of the running shoe. Yeah, 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:46.520 because isn't that when running for exercise kind of really 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.920 started as a mainstream thing. That's what I learned. That's 0:07:49.920 --> 0:07:53.560 what I learned from Forrest coump. Oh really is that 0:07:53.640 --> 0:07:56.480 in for cup Oh? Yeah? I remember he means running 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.160 and he inadvertently starts the leisure running trend. Oh. I 0:08:00.160 --> 0:08:02.120 I didn't realize he was starting the trend. I just 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:05.400 thought he was running, right, And then people started being like, 0:08:05.480 --> 0:08:07.640 what is that guy doing I'm gonna run alongside him, 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.120 and he ended up starting the running jogging trend. And 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.040 then movie goers sat in an audience and thought, why 0:08:13.120 --> 0:08:15.600 is this even in this dumb long movie. I like 0:08:15.720 --> 0:08:18.360 that movie. I don't know what you're talking about. You 0:08:18.400 --> 0:08:20.560 said something bad about it before. I have yet to 0:08:20.560 --> 0:08:23.400 see it since then, Oh since it came out. No, no, 0:08:23.480 --> 0:08:27.160 since you since you put it down weeks, you haven't 0:08:27.200 --> 0:08:31.040 seen it alright, which is rare. Maybe don't then, so, 0:08:31.120 --> 0:08:34.480 but they point to this, they say, Okay, from the seventies, um, 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:38.760 when we started this running shoe thing, we uh we 0:08:39.480 --> 0:08:43.360 like injuries. Running injuries haven't gone down. In some cases, 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:48.400 they've increased. And in fact, um things like uh, shin 0:08:48.520 --> 0:08:54.600 splints I believe, um planitis, knee injuries, and a couple 0:08:54.679 --> 0:08:57.960 other things have actually increased. So people are like, well, 0:08:57.960 --> 0:08:59.680 wait a minute, what is going on here? If you 0:08:59.679 --> 0:09:01.640 stop and think about it. No one was really paying 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:04.720 attention to it until two thousand and ten when a 0:09:04.760 --> 0:09:09.080 guy named Christopher McDougall came up with a book called 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:13.600 Born to Run, and it's basically it makes the makes 0:09:13.600 --> 0:09:18.040 the case that like paleo does for dieting, that like, 0:09:18.120 --> 0:09:21.320 we have evolved to be a certain way to to 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:26.040 behave under certain conditions, and our modern world has kind 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:28.760 of taken that and co opted it and made, you know, 0:09:28.840 --> 0:09:31.400 messed everything up, and as a result, we're suffering from 0:09:31.400 --> 0:09:34.600 all these maladies. But rather than eating ultra process food 0:09:34.640 --> 0:09:37.280 is a paleo diet. Whole thing is based on this 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.079 was that these modern running shoes were running in are 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:43.240 actually causing injuries. We need to throw our shoes away 0:09:43.240 --> 0:09:45.680 and just run barefoot and we'll be better off. Yeah, 0:09:45.720 --> 0:09:48.680 because we have adapted our running to these shoes and 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.720 we're not even supposed to run. And we'll get into 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:55.240 the hole. I don't want to spoil anything by saying 0:09:55.320 --> 0:09:59.120 he'll first, but we'll get into that a little bit later. 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:00.520 But he's saying we have a have to to run 0:10:00.559 --> 0:10:03.360 a certain way because of running shoes. And this is 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:07.520 not how humans or not how the uh specifically the 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:10.960 Tara Humara Indians. He's like, they don't get injured. They've 0:10:11.000 --> 0:10:15.160 been running barefoot for eons across long distances on all 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:19.120 sorts of terrain. Yeah, they m the Taramara Indians. They 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:24.000 are Huma. They live in northwestern Mexico. I believe, And 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:27.640 they're known for running around barefoot or in like sandals 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:31.400 that they make from old tires. And they they showed 0:10:31.480 --> 0:10:35.880 up at the Leadville Trail one hundred an ultra thon 0:10:36.480 --> 0:10:39.400 up a mountain peak and back down. They were like 0:10:39.520 --> 0:10:42.680 middle aged smoking before and I think during the race, 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.200 maybe possibly drunk on corn or like some sort of 0:10:46.200 --> 0:10:50.679 moonshine at the time. Um, and we're just passing everybody 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:53.400 without like seeing They didn't stretch, they didn't do anything, 0:10:53.400 --> 0:10:55.920 and they're passing some of the world's like most finely 0:10:56.000 --> 0:11:00.600 tuned old ultra marathon ors like it was nothing, and 0:11:00.679 --> 0:11:02.760 people are like, what is going on with these guys. 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:05.640 They're not even wearing shoes, What's what's the deal here? 0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.280 They really kind of kick things off. They actually McDougall 0:11:09.400 --> 0:11:12.000 went and visited them, wrote an article about him and 0:11:12.080 --> 0:11:15.280 ended up writing a book on barefoot running based on 0:11:15.520 --> 0:11:18.839 his his experiences with them. That's awesome. Yeah, should we 0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:23.120 take a break? All right, we're taking a break. Yes, 0:11:23.200 --> 0:11:45.280 we'll be right back. Okay, So this guy, Christopher mcdood 0:11:45.280 --> 0:11:47.800 comes around Born to Run. I've seen it referred to 0:11:47.880 --> 0:11:50.880 as the most influential running book of all time. And 0:11:51.040 --> 0:11:54.720 greatest Springsteen album. That's more than I wonder if they're 0:11:54.720 --> 0:11:57.480 related in any way. Let me say this, if ever 0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.160 in his book he finishes a chapter with baby we 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:03.000 Were Born to Run, then he should be he should 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.560 have the pants suit off of him. Oh you don't 0:12:05.559 --> 0:12:09.280 think he should be maybe kissed lightly on the cheek 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:15.240 for a witty Springsteen reference. He's already still in his title. Huh, 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:21.439 how come on as the Boss? How's he stealing? Is? 0:12:21.720 --> 0:12:24.480 Ohas I thought he meant, like like his title, like 0:12:24.880 --> 0:12:28.800 his status title still still pretty recent after the new 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:33.480 year of McDougall, the Boss, Like, what are you talking about? 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:35.440 I've not seen him referred to. There's only one boss, 0:12:35.520 --> 0:12:38.480 But think about it. Jim Fix wrote, um, oh that 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:40.760 I can't remember what it was the actual title was, 0:12:40.800 --> 0:12:43.040 but it was like he wrote the book on running. 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:45.800 Yeah I remember that. Okay, so the Art of Running 0:12:45.800 --> 0:12:48.560 the Joy of Running one of those two. And um, 0:12:48.640 --> 0:12:51.760 they're saying that this book was more influential. It just 0:12:51.880 --> 0:12:53.920 hit it just the right time. But not only did 0:12:53.960 --> 0:12:55.880 this book hit it just the right time, it came 0:12:55.920 --> 0:12:59.560 either right before or right after a study came out 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.640 that basically said the same thing. That this other guy 0:13:02.679 --> 0:13:05.520 who's like one of the luminaries of the barefoot running world. 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:09.080 Oh yeah, Daniel Lieberman. Yeah, he's a paleo anthropologist at Harvard, 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:11.960 which means that he gets listened to when he talks. 0:13:12.280 --> 0:13:14.800 But he released the study with some co authors, I 0:13:14.800 --> 0:13:16.640 think in two thousand nine or the beginning of two 0:13:16.679 --> 0:13:20.319 thousand and ten that basically said, hey, man, um, if 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:24.319 you run barefoot, your body is going to suffer far 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:27.720 less than if you run in modern running shoes. And 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:31.640 it was just a perfect timing with this book Born 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:34.719 to Run, and the two together caught the attention of 0:13:34.920 --> 0:13:37.600 anybody who is into running at a time, and people 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.400 started literally taking their shoes off and going and running 0:13:40.600 --> 0:13:43.440 and then hurting themselves pretty quickly. Yeah. And he would 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:47.200 point to things like, uh, look, we've got Achilles tendons, 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:50.520 we got these big knee joints, we have a big 0:13:50.559 --> 0:13:56.160 gluetyus Maximus, especially me, and he's like, we were kind 0:13:56.160 --> 0:13:59.120 of made to run these distances. Other people say, hey, 0:13:59.160 --> 0:14:02.319 we have those glutes because um, they're great for squatting 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:07.280 and for foraging and pooping, let's be honest, and um, 0:14:08.240 --> 0:14:11.520 but you're right sure, And so there are competing theories 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:14.720 out there because we don't know exactly for sure. But 0:14:14.760 --> 0:14:16.840 he basically says, the way the human body is put together, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:19.720 we don't need these shoes, and we were built to 0:14:20.360 --> 0:14:24.520 built to run, not born to run. Right. But the 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.880 the other idea of this is is, and this is 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.760 really why he uses to get people to to buy 0:14:29.800 --> 0:14:33.560 into it, is like we were we evolved to run 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:37.600 this way. Running with shoes is unnatural. Yeah, And it 0:14:37.640 --> 0:14:40.360 doesn't matter who you are, even if you're super fit, 0:14:41.040 --> 0:14:45.720 if you're running with running shoes on and you're a runner, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:48.920 you have an eight chance of getting injured at some 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:51.880 point eight out of ten people every year, he said, Yep, 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:55.280 get injured every single year. And even if you're in 0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.320 like I said, super great shape and you run all 0:14:58.360 --> 0:15:00.360 the time. In fact, if you run all the time, 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:03.480 you're probably more likely to get injured. Right, because again, 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:08.840 we didn't evolve to wear super cushion e gel um 0:15:09.560 --> 0:15:13.200 shoes when we run. We were we evolved to run 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.840 barefoot or maybe in some very thin's handles or something 0:15:16.920 --> 0:15:20.280 like that, minimalist shoe wear. Um. And he also said, well, 0:15:20.320 --> 0:15:22.240 some of the other modern problems that we have are 0:15:22.280 --> 0:15:24.760 some of the other problems that that just come along 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:28.880 with walking around in these shoes, things like supernation pro nation, 0:15:29.000 --> 0:15:32.920 which I do. It's where you're where if you're when 0:15:32.960 --> 0:15:35.840 you're walking or running right, you're the inside of your 0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:40.120 heel is curved downward. So your shoes eventually when you 0:15:40.160 --> 0:15:43.320 look at the soul and the cushioning, they're worn on 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.360 one side or the other. Yeah more, Yeah, I think 0:15:46.400 --> 0:15:48.000 I do that a little bit, Like I walk like 0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:51.640 verbal kint at the end of the usual suspects, basically 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.120 from the looks of my shoes and the wear and 0:15:54.160 --> 0:15:56.680 tear on them. Yeah, might might actually wear a little bit, 0:15:56.800 --> 0:16:01.480 I think on the outside more than the inside. Okay, 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:05.720 so that'd be supernation. That's supernation. They're there are two 0:16:05.800 --> 0:16:09.440 sides of the same problem, which is that your your feet, 0:16:09.720 --> 0:16:13.360 your heel is not landing in line in the same 0:16:13.400 --> 0:16:16.600 axis with the front. It's it's tilted. I think there's 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:20.880 like three different things going on biomechanically. But what people 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:25.120 like um Christopher McDougall and proponents of barefoot running say is, buddy, 0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:30.040 that's because you're walking on these padded um souls of 0:16:30.120 --> 0:16:33.040 shoes that like they're they're new. They haven't been around 0:16:33.120 --> 0:16:35.200 for more than for even half of a century. Yet 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:39.280 we are feet are not designed to walk like this, um, 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.640 and so that's why you're doing this. If you will 0:16:41.680 --> 0:16:44.760 stop running and shoes, your your pro nation or your 0:16:44.800 --> 0:16:48.200 supernation will actually fix itself. And there is some data 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.520 that that is actually true, that that that those things 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:56.680 biomechanical disorders can be fixed by running or walking barefoot. 0:16:56.720 --> 0:17:00.280 Other people say no, if you have a biomechanical order 0:17:00.360 --> 0:17:03.720 like supernation or pro nation, you have no business going barefoot. 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.600 The barefoot proponents they do not listen to that guy. 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.520 He's a dork. Uh. And then they say, you know, 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:12.479 you really don't need to bring the name calling into this. 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:15.320 They said, whatever, dork, Yeah, what did you say, dork? 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:19.600 Remember in Police Academy where they wrote dorc on Mauser's 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:25.040 chest with um suntan lotion. All right, you got a 0:17:25.119 --> 0:17:29.760 real red burn. Just realized I was reminiscing about Police Academy. 0:17:30.160 --> 0:17:32.639 I was just watching I'm watching the TV show Party 0:17:32.680 --> 0:17:35.439 Down for the third time now, and there's the grade up. 0:17:35.480 --> 0:17:37.399 Did you ever see that at all? And still have not? 0:17:37.600 --> 0:17:39.680 You know, it's a catering company in each episode is 0:17:39.680 --> 0:17:42.119 a different party, and there's one party where they go 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:46.440 to Steve Guttenberg's house for his birthday party, and he 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:49.239 he's like, oh man, I forgot, Like we actually had 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.560 a surprise party my friends through for me, so there 0:17:52.600 --> 0:17:54.600 is no birthday party. But he's like, I don't want 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:55.960 this to go to waste. Why don't you guys just 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:57.600 come in and call your friends. We'll have a party. 0:17:58.000 --> 0:17:59.920 So it becomes like a party at the Goots house. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.880 That's awesome. It's a really good one. I'll bet that's 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:04.359 that's probably how it would go down in real life. 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:06.560 He at least seemed like a good guy on this 0:18:06.640 --> 0:18:11.159 fictional TV show. Who got their start on that show? Uh? 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.840 I don't know about getting their start, I mean who's on. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:19.640 It starred Adam Scott and Kim Marino and Jane Jane Lynch. 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.080 She didn't get her start on it, but she got 0:18:22.119 --> 0:18:24.640 it pre Glee and then had to leave the show 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:29.760 when she got Glee. Megan Malali, Yeah, I think it 0:18:29.800 --> 0:18:31.720 was like seven or eight years ago. I saw her 0:18:31.760 --> 0:18:34.920 on an episode of UM, maybe Law and Order or 0:18:35.000 --> 0:18:38.560 something like that old one, and she's like playing serious 0:18:38.680 --> 0:18:43.640 like pathologists showing I think Lenny Briscoe something in somebody's 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:46.720 tissue or something like that. I was like, oh, that's 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:49.000 Chane Lynched. It was. It was like a where she 0:18:49.080 --> 0:18:51.119 was like, am I a serious actress and my comedic 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.119 actress both? Yeah? She was good. Christ and our buddy 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:57.080 Christin Bell was on it. Martin Starr, Okay, maybe it 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.080 was Kristin Bell. I was like, she didn't get her 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:02.440 start though. Was that after Ronica Mars? Oh yeah, okay, yeah, 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:04.400 she sort of did a guest I guess starring thing, 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.320 but it's Ken Marino at his best, and he's like 0:19:07.320 --> 0:19:10.240 one of my heroes Martin stars I'm freaking geeks. And 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:13.000 then later on Silicon Valley, right, yes, okay, I love 0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:16.919 that guy. Yeah, he's great. He Actually, since we're already sidetracked, 0:19:17.280 --> 0:19:19.520 you should at some point try and bring yourself to 0:19:19.560 --> 0:19:22.520 listen to the Mark Maren episode with Martin Starr. Why 0:19:22.560 --> 0:19:25.040 would I have any trouble listening to Mark Maron? I 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:30.160 don't know, Uh, really interesting guy, Martin Starr, I can 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:33.359 only imagine and different than you might think. Oh really, 0:19:33.600 --> 0:19:36.360 is he really like twee and whimsical? No, he's very 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:42.920 intense and uh hetty spiritual and hetty. Oh yeah, super smart. Yeah, 0:19:43.000 --> 0:19:45.440 not that I thought he was dumb, but he can 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:49.720 he can play that. I got all right, Where were we? 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:53.200 We're talking about barefoot running and how some the people 0:19:53.200 --> 0:19:55.600 who are proponents say if you throw your shoes away, 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:58.359 you will fix all these modern problems. Yeah. So the 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:01.400 idea is that you know, your your feet have these 0:20:01.440 --> 0:20:05.040 nerve endings that will give you feedback when you're making 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.040 contact with the ground that you don't get when you're 0:20:07.080 --> 0:20:11.000 wearing these shoes, and they will tell you how to 0:20:11.119 --> 0:20:14.400 walk basically depending on what kind of terrain you're on, 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:18.200 and your body adjust accordingly and had for many, many years. 0:20:18.840 --> 0:20:22.840 The other thing that they say is with um without shoes, 0:20:23.480 --> 0:20:27.679 you actually run differently than you do with shoes. And 0:20:27.720 --> 0:20:31.639 this seems to be the genuine article argument for or 0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.359 against barefoot running, and it seems to kind of land 0:20:35.400 --> 0:20:37.919 in favor of barefoot running to tell you the truth. 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.720 So should we talk about the the old heel first thing? Yeah, 0:20:40.760 --> 0:20:44.800 he'll striking, Yeah, he'lls you know, when you run if 0:20:44.800 --> 0:20:47.000 someone cause I don't run, but if someone were to, 0:20:47.240 --> 0:20:50.520 you know, steal something from me on the street and 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.120 I had to run you would see me take off 0:20:53.200 --> 0:20:55.520 down the road, and you would notice that my heels 0:20:55.520 --> 0:20:59.399 are striking the ground first and with a pretty great impact, 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.359 and pool like me would see you and be like 0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.040 that's terrible form, yeah, and say you're never going to 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.119 catch that guy. Just don't even bother. So when you 0:21:07.240 --> 0:21:11.480 run like that, it actually hurts pretty quickly, and you're 0:21:11.520 --> 0:21:17.040 actually propelling yourself in a weird way backwards, Like when 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:19.760 you bring your heel down, your foot is up and 0:21:19.800 --> 0:21:23.320 your heel is actually hitting the ground at a direction 0:21:23.800 --> 0:21:27.560 opposite the direction that you're trying to go. If you 0:21:27.720 --> 0:21:30.480 like freeze frame that for it's a kind of a 0:21:30.520 --> 0:21:32.520 long running stride. That's what it would look like. So 0:21:32.680 --> 0:21:34.840 just as far as like running form goes, it's not 0:21:34.880 --> 0:21:37.000 a good way to run. Anybody who runs can tell 0:21:37.000 --> 0:21:39.080 you that you're not supposed to heal strike, although it 0:21:39.119 --> 0:21:42.320 feels very natural when you're in shoes, if you take 0:21:42.400 --> 0:21:44.879 off your shoes and you heel strike, you'll take about 0:21:44.880 --> 0:21:47.399 two steps and just your head will just explode with 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:50.359 pain at your heel. Yeah, because your heel is not 0:21:50.560 --> 0:21:53.560 made to be run on. Now, if you lean forward 0:21:54.160 --> 0:21:57.840 and run on the mid the midfoot or the ball 0:21:57.880 --> 0:22:01.760 of your feet. You'll find run barefoot is much more comfortable. 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:04.200 And that's what a lot of people who are proponents 0:22:04.200 --> 0:22:07.040 of barefoot running say is this is how you're supposed 0:22:07.040 --> 0:22:10.240 to run, and this is how barefoot running makes you run. 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.320 When you wear shoes, it's much easier to heal strike. 0:22:14.400 --> 0:22:16.520 You have to remember not to do that right like 0:22:16.560 --> 0:22:19.280 a sprinter. When you see these Olympic sprinters, they're not 0:22:19.359 --> 0:22:22.359 heal striking right, They're they're pitched forward a bit and 0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:24.800 they're running up on the front or at least the 0:22:24.800 --> 0:22:27.239 mid of their foot. You see how fast they go. 0:22:27.840 --> 0:22:31.520 I took a running class once. No, No, it's like 0:22:32.240 --> 0:22:34.560 just to learn how to run better, just like out 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:37.520 in the shop, out in the world. What's it called 0:22:37.720 --> 0:22:43.040 continuing education adult? It nights school, I think, um. And 0:22:43.320 --> 0:22:48.199 what I was taught was that running is falling forward 0:22:48.240 --> 0:22:51.080