1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of My 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 3 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles w. Chuck, Brian over there, 4 00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: and there's Jerry over there, and this is Stuff you 5 00:00:18,680 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 1: should know about barefoot running. Colin, don't do it, Colin, 6 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: says Chuck Colan, Josh says, do it if you want. Oh, 7 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:34,400 Speaker 1: it's just because it's running, has nothing to do with 8 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 1: being barefoot. Uh oh really, I got you. Yeah, man, 9 00:00:38,440 --> 00:00:40,680 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm not a fan of running. I 10 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: love it. I love walking, but I don't think. I 11 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: don't know. Have you just tried to walk faster? Oh? 12 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,440 Speaker 1: I walk exercise walk super fast? I'm kidding, By the way, 13 00:00:49,640 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 1: walking fast and running are not the same thing. No, No, 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:56,040 Speaker 1: I don't know, man, it's just a lot of wear 15 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:58,720 Speaker 1: on your body. I don't think humans we're meant to 16 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: run like this. Well, and Chuck, you would be running 17 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: a foul of an entire subgroup of people who believe 18 00:01:05,520 --> 00:01:09,120 Speaker 1: that not only humans should be running barefoot, but that 19 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 1: we're actually designed to run long distances. Yeah. I think 20 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: the idea was that we evolved and this sounds crazy 21 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,280 Speaker 1: to me. We evolved to run long distances so we 22 00:01:20,319 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 1: could eventually just outrun animals who got tired before we did. Yeah, 23 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: that's crazy. Yeah, so animal just gonna run after this 24 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: animal boar until it gets tired. Sure, that doesn't make 25 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: sense to you. Sure if that's true. Well that's the thing. 26 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,760 Speaker 1: It's like they could also spears and bows and arrows, 27 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,200 Speaker 1: which they did, which probably means they didn't like running 28 00:01:44,200 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: after animals. Right, But if you speared an animal, it 29 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 1: doesn't mean it's gonna drop dead where you speared it. 30 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: You might have to chase after it. Well, that's when 31 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 1: you do the fast walk. Can you imagine like took 32 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: Took doing like the sport walking over the tundra kind 33 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 1: of because the nice it would be. Um, okay, so 34 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: we should probably tell everybody what the heck we're talking 35 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: about in general, So I'm out running without shoes yea, 36 00:02:09,160 --> 00:02:12,320 Speaker 1: or with those minimal There are different versions of how 37 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: minimal those shoes get. Yeah, so this this the whole thing, 38 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,240 Speaker 1: Like started this idea of like, hey man, you know 39 00:02:21,280 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 1: those running shoes, you got chuck them off and just 40 00:02:23,919 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 1: start running barefoot and you'll be glad that you did that. 41 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:33,640 Speaker 1: All started around two yeah yeah, um, and it is 42 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:36,520 Speaker 1: definitely hit its high water market, got a lot of press. 43 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,840 Speaker 1: It was a huge trend in running, and then it 44 00:02:38,960 --> 00:02:42,399 Speaker 1: seems to have kind of crested and waned and now 45 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,080 Speaker 1: it's back. But the running world has changed forever because 46 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 1: of it. But from what I understand, there's not like 47 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:51,799 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are barefoot running these days. 48 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: I don't. I mean, I don't think it's has swept 49 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: the nation. It did for a minute, but there are 50 00:02:56,400 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: definitely people who adhere to the philosophy of your body 51 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: will adjust because we were meant to. We ran barefoot 52 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,880 Speaker 1: for you know, eighty million years, right, Well, that's one 53 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: of the implications of that is that and some people 54 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 1: suspect not only are you supposed to run barefoot, but 55 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: that running with shoes, including very expensive, highly designed running shoes, 56 00:03:23,800 --> 00:03:26,840 Speaker 1: are actually going to increase your your chances of injury 57 00:03:27,080 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 1: or that wear and tear on your joints. Now you're 58 00:03:29,240 --> 00:03:32,560 Speaker 1: better off running barefoot. But sounds totally countertuitive until you 59 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,560 Speaker 1: stop and think, they say, hey, man, how long have 60 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: we been running in running shoes? For shoes of any kind, 61 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,360 Speaker 1: I think the oldest shoes that um have been found 62 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,640 Speaker 1: were actually found in Oregon. Uh, and they're like ten 63 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: thousand four years old. They're called Fort Rock sandals. They 64 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 1: were called prefontaines. Right. Should we talk a little bit 65 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: about the history of the running shoe? Obviously not as 66 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: long as that pretty exhaustive lists from mental itch. Um 67 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 1: it it's supposedly the running shoe goes back a couple 68 00:04:03,040 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: of hundred years. Yeah, something like that. The sneaker at 69 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: least goes back a couple of hundred years. Um. I 70 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 1: think in eighty two, a guy named Wait Webster. It's 71 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,159 Speaker 1: either wait or Wyatt, but it's spelled like weight W 72 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:22,680 Speaker 1: A n T. Anyway, we'll call him Senior Webster. He 73 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,919 Speaker 1: came up with a way of attaching a rubber soul 74 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: to upper a shoe, um, which really kind of changed 75 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:34,240 Speaker 1: shoes in general. Like people were like, hey, these shoes 76 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 1: are actually going to last, whereas before it was like 77 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:39,720 Speaker 1: all leather and they fell apart in the rain really quickly. 78 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 1: These rubber souls could really kind of you know, take 79 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: the take the impact that you put on your body 80 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,479 Speaker 1: when your foot hits the ground, and they weren't going 81 00:04:48,520 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: to come apart because you could really attach him to 82 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: an upper Yeah, and um, the word sneakers comes from 83 00:04:53,839 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 1: the fact that they were quiet. They were the first 84 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:01,360 Speaker 1: shoes that didn't clip clap around like Jerry's elementary school 85 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:04,200 Speaker 1: principal shoes she had on last week. Uh. So they 86 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: were sneaks or sneakers because you could sneak around. And 87 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 1: I saw that that was invented by the British. But 88 00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:13,880 Speaker 1: then the British went back to calling their sneakers. I 89 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 1: think plim souls. That's what they call them today, is 90 00:05:17,279 --> 00:05:19,720 Speaker 1: palm souls, which were like kids shoes back then, right, 91 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 1: But we call them sneakers here, and then what we 92 00:05:21,920 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: call running shoes they call trainers. Right. I think they 93 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,080 Speaker 1: still say trainers, don't they Yes, So I feel like yeah, 94 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:29,960 Speaker 1: and I think they still say plim souls and they 95 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 1: still say garage lift and flat sure and lou and 96 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,000 Speaker 1: Lorie and all that, and aluminium and in herbs. Right. 97 00:05:38,080 --> 00:05:41,159 Speaker 1: The only one I really take issue with is aluminium. Really, 98 00:05:41,279 --> 00:05:45,880 Speaker 1: it's just wrong. I'm sorry, u K, but it's wrong. 99 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 1: Even when like David Attenborough says it, or Richard Attenburgh 100 00:05:49,880 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: or any Edinburgh I'm not saying it doesn't sound pleasant. 101 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: I'm just saying it's wrong. Okay, okay, this was interesting too. 102 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,280 Speaker 1: The first I didn't know that Reebok went back so far. 103 00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:03,359 Speaker 1: They were the Bolton Company initially Joseph William Foster was 104 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: the founder. In eighteen fifty two he developed the first 105 00:06:06,960 --> 00:06:10,160 Speaker 1: running spikes. And it sounds like in the eighteen sixties, 106 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,680 Speaker 1: for like the next decade, running spikes were just sort 107 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:17,640 Speaker 1: of shoes with spikes, like regular shoes with spikes on them. Yeah, 108 00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:19,480 Speaker 1: and you would hope that they'd flatten out the end 109 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:21,720 Speaker 1: that pressed against your feet, but I suspect that they 110 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: didn't always, not to your satisfaction. Right. And then of 111 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:29,640 Speaker 1: course other developments in the seventies air cushion shoes, uh. 112 00:06:29,680 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: And then eventually the the gel insert or not insert, 113 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: but the gel cushion heel, and that was from a 114 00:06:38,160 --> 00:06:41,919 Speaker 1: sex in the nineteen eighties. And I always thought that 115 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 1: was kind of a scam, but apparently close to more 116 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 1: displacement of impact than the air technology. Yeah. And the 117 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 1: air technology had been invented I think a decade or 118 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,200 Speaker 1: so before NASA, right may by a guy named Frank 119 00:06:56,279 --> 00:07:00,480 Speaker 1: Rudy and um he worked with Nike to add air 120 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:04,880 Speaker 1: to the souls so that this compressed gas would distribute 121 00:07:04,880 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: the force that you were putting on your shoe and 122 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: make it easier on your joints back up stream. Yeah, 123 00:07:10,840 --> 00:07:12,960 Speaker 1: but if you if you ask the shoe companies, they're 124 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:15,360 Speaker 1: saying that they have developed this technology over the years 125 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,040 Speaker 1: to help runners. If you asked a skeptic and a 126 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,880 Speaker 1: barefoot enthusiasts, they'll say, man, this running shoe thing is 127 00:07:23,080 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: just a big marketing, money making scam, because they what 128 00:07:27,440 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 1: they point to is, okay, the modern running shoe. Actually 129 00:07:30,880 --> 00:07:32,640 Speaker 1: it was New Balance that came up with the modern 130 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,080 Speaker 1: running shoe in nineteen sixty that with their track Ster. 131 00:07:35,600 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: But most people point to the seventies and Nikes waffles 132 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: shoe is like the birth of the running shoe. Yeah, 133 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: because isn't that when running for exercise kind of really 134 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,920 Speaker 1: started as a mainstream thing. That's what I learned. That's 135 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,560 Speaker 1: what I learned from Forrest coump. Oh really is that 136 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,480 Speaker 1: in for cup Oh? Yeah? I remember he means running 137 00:07:56,520 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 1: and he inadvertently starts the leisure running trend. Oh. I 138 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:02,120 Speaker 1: I didn't realize he was starting the trend. I just 139 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:05,400 Speaker 1: thought he was running, right, And then people started being like, 140 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: what is that guy doing I'm gonna run alongside him, 141 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,120 Speaker 1: and he ended up starting the running jogging trend. And 142 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: then movie goers sat in an audience and thought, why 143 00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 1: is this even in this dumb long movie. I like 144 00:08:15,720 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: that movie. I don't know what you're talking about. You 145 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: said something bad about it before. I have yet to 146 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: see it since then, Oh since it came out. No, no, 147 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 1: since you since you put it down weeks, you haven't 148 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 1: seen it alright, which is rare. Maybe don't then, so, 149 00:08:31,120 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 1: but they point to this, they say, Okay, from the seventies, um, 150 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: when we started this running shoe thing, we uh we 151 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:43,360 Speaker 1: like injuries. Running injuries haven't gone down. In some cases, 152 00:08:43,400 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: they've increased. And in fact, um things like uh, shin 153 00:08:48,520 --> 00:08:54,600 Speaker 1: splints I believe, um planitis, knee injuries, and a couple 154 00:08:54,679 --> 00:08:57,960 Speaker 1: other things have actually increased. So people are like, well, 155 00:08:57,960 --> 00:08:59,680 Speaker 1: wait a minute, what is going on here? If you 156 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: stop and think about it. No one was really paying 157 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 1: attention to it until two thousand and ten when a 158 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: guy named Christopher McDougall came up with a book called 159 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 1: Born to Run, and it's basically it makes the makes 160 00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:18,040 Speaker 1: the case that like paleo does for dieting, that like, 161 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: we have evolved to be a certain way to to 162 00:09:21,960 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 1: behave under certain conditions, and our modern world has kind 163 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,760 Speaker 1: of taken that and co opted it and made, you know, 164 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: messed everything up, and as a result, we're suffering from 165 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: all these maladies. But rather than eating ultra process food 166 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:37,280 Speaker 1: is a paleo diet. Whole thing is based on this 167 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,079 Speaker 1: was that these modern running shoes were running in are 168 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:43,240 Speaker 1: actually causing injuries. We need to throw our shoes away 169 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:45,680 Speaker 1: and just run barefoot and we'll be better off. Yeah, 170 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:48,680 Speaker 1: because we have adapted our running to these shoes and 171 00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 1: we're not even supposed to run. And we'll get into 172 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:55,240 Speaker 1: the hole. I don't want to spoil anything by saying 173 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: he'll first, but we'll get into that a little bit later. 174 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: But he's saying we have a have to to run 175 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 1: a certain way because of running shoes. And this is 176 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: not how humans or not how the uh specifically the 177 00:10:07,559 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 1: Tara Humara Indians. He's like, they don't get injured. They've 178 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: been running barefoot for eons across long distances on all 179 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 1: sorts of terrain. Yeah, they m the Taramara Indians. They 180 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: are Huma. They live in northwestern Mexico. I believe, And 181 00:10:24,040 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: they're known for running around barefoot or in like sandals 182 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: that they make from old tires. And they they showed 183 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:35,880 Speaker 1: up at the Leadville Trail one hundred an ultra thon 184 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,400 Speaker 1: up a mountain peak and back down. They were like 185 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 1: middle aged smoking before and I think during the race, 186 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 1: maybe possibly drunk on corn or like some sort of 187 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: moonshine at the time. Um, and we're just passing everybody 188 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:53,400 Speaker 1: without like seeing They didn't stretch, they didn't do anything, 189 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,920 Speaker 1: and they're passing some of the world's like most finely 190 00:10:56,000 --> 00:11:00,600 Speaker 1: tuned old ultra marathon ors like it was nothing, and 191 00:11:00,679 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 1: people are like, what is going on with these guys. 192 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,640 Speaker 1: They're not even wearing shoes, What's what's the deal here? 193 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:09,280 Speaker 1: They really kind of kick things off. They actually McDougall 194 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,000 Speaker 1: went and visited them, wrote an article about him and 195 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: ended up writing a book on barefoot running based on 196 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,839 Speaker 1: his his experiences with them. That's awesome. Yeah, should we 197 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:23,120 Speaker 1: take a break? All right, we're taking a break. Yes, 198 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: we'll be right back. Okay, So this guy, Christopher mcdood 199 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 1: comes around Born to Run. I've seen it referred to 200 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: as the most influential running book of all time. And 201 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: greatest Springsteen album. That's more than I wonder if they're 202 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: related in any way. Let me say this, if ever 203 00:11:57,559 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: in his book he finishes a chapter with baby we 204 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,000 Speaker 1: Were Born to Run, then he should be he should 205 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,560 Speaker 1: have the pants suit off of him. Oh you don't 206 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:09,280 Speaker 1: think he should be maybe kissed lightly on the cheek 207 00:12:09,559 --> 00:12:15,240 Speaker 1: for a witty Springsteen reference. He's already still in his title. Huh, 208 00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:21,439 Speaker 1: how come on as the Boss? How's he stealing? Is? 209 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 1: Ohas I thought he meant, like like his title, like 210 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,800 Speaker 1: his status title still still pretty recent after the new 211 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 1: year of McDougall, the Boss, Like, what are you talking about? 212 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 1: I've not seen him referred to. There's only one boss, 213 00:12:35,520 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: But think about it. Jim Fix wrote, um, oh that 214 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: I can't remember what it was the actual title was, 215 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: but it was like he wrote the book on running. 216 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,800 Speaker 1: Yeah I remember that. Okay, so the Art of Running 217 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: the Joy of Running one of those two. And um, 218 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: they're saying that this book was more influential. It just 219 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:53,920 Speaker 1: hit it just the right time. But not only did 220 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 1: this book hit it just the right time, it came 221 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,560 Speaker 1: either right before or right after a study came out 222 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: that basically said the same thing. That this other guy 223 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:05,520 Speaker 1: who's like one of the luminaries of the barefoot running world. 224 00:13:05,559 --> 00:13:09,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Daniel Lieberman. Yeah, he's a paleo anthropologist at Harvard, 225 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 1: which means that he gets listened to when he talks. 226 00:13:12,280 --> 00:13:14,800 Speaker 1: But he released the study with some co authors, I 227 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:16,640 Speaker 1: think in two thousand nine or the beginning of two 228 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,319 Speaker 1: thousand and ten that basically said, hey, man, um, if 229 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: you run barefoot, your body is going to suffer far 230 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: less than if you run in modern running shoes. And 231 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 1: it was just a perfect timing with this book Born 232 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:34,719 Speaker 1: to Run, and the two together caught the attention of 233 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: anybody who is into running at a time, and people 234 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,400 Speaker 1: started literally taking their shoes off and going and running 235 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:43,440 Speaker 1: and then hurting themselves pretty quickly. Yeah. And he would 236 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: point to things like, uh, look, we've got Achilles tendons, 237 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,520 Speaker 1: we got these big knee joints, we have a big 238 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 1: gluetyus Maximus, especially me, and he's like, we were kind 239 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 1: of made to run these distances. Other people say, hey, 240 00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:02,319 Speaker 1: we have those glutes because um, they're great for squatting 241 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: and for foraging and pooping, let's be honest, and um, 242 00:14:08,240 --> 00:14:11,520 Speaker 1: but you're right sure, And so there are competing theories 243 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: out there because we don't know exactly for sure. But 244 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: he basically says, the way the human body is put together, 245 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: we don't need these shoes, and we were built to 246 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:24,520 Speaker 1: built to run, not born to run. Right. But the 247 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: the other idea of this is is, and this is 248 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 1: really why he uses to get people to to buy 249 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 1: into it, is like we were we evolved to run 250 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: this way. Running with shoes is unnatural. Yeah, And it 251 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: doesn't matter who you are, even if you're super fit, 252 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 1: if you're running with running shoes on and you're a runner, 253 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:48,920 Speaker 1: you have an eight chance of getting injured at some 254 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 1: point eight out of ten people every year, he said, Yep, 255 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: get injured every single year. And even if you're in 256 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,320 Speaker 1: like I said, super great shape and you run all 257 00:14:58,360 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: the time. In fact, if you run all the time, 258 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,480 Speaker 1: you're probably more likely to get injured. Right, because again, 259 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 1: we didn't evolve to wear super cushion e gel um 260 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,200 Speaker 1: shoes when we run. We were we evolved to run 261 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 1: barefoot or maybe in some very thin's handles or something 262 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: like that, minimalist shoe wear. Um. And he also said, well, 263 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:22,240 Speaker 1: some of the other modern problems that we have are 264 00:15:22,280 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: some of the other problems that that just come along 265 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,880 Speaker 1: with walking around in these shoes, things like supernation pro nation, 266 00:15:29,000 --> 00:15:32,920 Speaker 1: which I do. It's where you're where if you're when 267 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,840 Speaker 1: you're walking or running right, you're the inside of your 268 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,120 Speaker 1: heel is curved downward. So your shoes eventually when you 269 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:43,320 Speaker 1: look at the soul and the cushioning, they're worn on 270 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:46,360 Speaker 1: one side or the other. Yeah more, Yeah, I think 271 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,000 Speaker 1: I do that a little bit, Like I walk like 272 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,640 Speaker 1: verbal kint at the end of the usual suspects, basically 273 00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,120 Speaker 1: from the looks of my shoes and the wear and 274 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: tear on them. Yeah, might might actually wear a little bit, 275 00:15:56,800 --> 00:16:01,480 Speaker 1: I think on the outside more than the inside. Okay, 276 00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 1: so that'd be supernation. That's supernation. They're there are two 277 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:09,440 Speaker 1: sides of the same problem, which is that your your feet, 278 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,360 Speaker 1: your heel is not landing in line in the same 279 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 1: axis with the front. It's it's tilted. I think there's 280 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: like three different things going on biomechanically. But what people 281 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 1: like um Christopher McDougall and proponents of barefoot running say is, buddy, 282 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,040 Speaker 1: that's because you're walking on these padded um souls of 283 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:33,040 Speaker 1: shoes that like they're they're new. They haven't been around 284 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:35,200 Speaker 1: for more than for even half of a century. Yet 285 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 1: we are feet are not designed to walk like this, um, 286 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,640 Speaker 1: and so that's why you're doing this. If you will 287 00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,760 Speaker 1: stop running and shoes, your your pro nation or your 288 00:16:44,800 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: supernation will actually fix itself. And there is some data 289 00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: that that is actually true, that that that those things 290 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 1: biomechanical disorders can be fixed by running or walking barefoot. 291 00:16:56,720 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: Other people say no, if you have a biomechanical order 292 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,720 Speaker 1: like supernation or pro nation, you have no business going barefoot. 293 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: The barefoot proponents they do not listen to that guy. 294 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,520 Speaker 1: He's a dork. Uh. And then they say, you know, 295 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,479 Speaker 1: you really don't need to bring the name calling into this. 296 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: They said, whatever, dork, Yeah, what did you say, dork? 297 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,600 Speaker 1: Remember in Police Academy where they wrote dorc on Mauser's 298 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: chest with um suntan lotion. All right, you got a 299 00:17:25,119 --> 00:17:29,760 Speaker 1: real red burn. Just realized I was reminiscing about Police Academy. 300 00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:32,639 Speaker 1: I was just watching I'm watching the TV show Party 301 00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:35,439 Speaker 1: Down for the third time now, and there's the grade up. 302 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 1: Did you ever see that at all? And still have not? 303 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:39,680 Speaker 1: You know, it's a catering company in each episode is 304 00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:42,119 Speaker 1: a different party, and there's one party where they go 305 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:46,440 Speaker 1: to Steve Guttenberg's house for his birthday party, and he 306 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,239 Speaker 1: he's like, oh man, I forgot, Like we actually had 307 00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: a surprise party my friends through for me, so there 308 00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: is no birthday party. But he's like, I don't want 309 00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: this to go to waste. Why don't you guys just 310 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,600 Speaker 1: come in and call your friends. We'll have a party. 311 00:17:58,000 --> 00:17:59,920 Speaker 1: So it becomes like a party at the Goots house. 312 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: That's awesome. It's a really good one. I'll bet that's 313 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,359 Speaker 1: that's probably how it would go down in real life. 314 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,560 Speaker 1: He at least seemed like a good guy on this 315 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:11,159 Speaker 1: fictional TV show. Who got their start on that show? Uh? 316 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: I don't know about getting their start, I mean who's on. 317 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,640 Speaker 1: It starred Adam Scott and Kim Marino and Jane Jane Lynch. 318 00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 1: She didn't get her start on it, but she got 319 00:18:22,119 --> 00:18:24,640 Speaker 1: it pre Glee and then had to leave the show 320 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: when she got Glee. Megan Malali, Yeah, I think it 321 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,720 Speaker 1: was like seven or eight years ago. I saw her 322 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,920 Speaker 1: on an episode of UM, maybe Law and Order or 323 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 1: something like that old one, and she's like playing serious 324 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:43,640 Speaker 1: like pathologists showing I think Lenny Briscoe something in somebody's 325 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,720 Speaker 1: tissue or something like that. I was like, oh, that's 326 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 1: Chane Lynched. It was. It was like a where she 327 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:51,119 Speaker 1: was like, am I a serious actress and my comedic 328 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:54,119 Speaker 1: actress both? Yeah? She was good. Christ and our buddy 329 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:57,080 Speaker 1: Christin Bell was on it. Martin Starr, Okay, maybe it 330 00:18:57,160 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: was Kristin Bell. I was like, she didn't get her 331 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: start though. Was that after Ronica Mars? Oh yeah, okay, yeah, 332 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:04,400 Speaker 1: she sort of did a guest I guess starring thing, 333 00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: but it's Ken Marino at his best, and he's like 334 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,240 Speaker 1: one of my heroes Martin stars I'm freaking geeks. And 335 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:13,000 Speaker 1: then later on Silicon Valley, right, yes, okay, I love 336 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,919 Speaker 1: that guy. Yeah, he's great. He Actually, since we're already sidetracked, 337 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: you should at some point try and bring yourself to 338 00:19:19,560 --> 00:19:22,520 Speaker 1: listen to the Mark Maren episode with Martin Starr. Why 339 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: would I have any trouble listening to Mark Maron? I 340 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:30,160 Speaker 1: don't know, Uh, really interesting guy, Martin Starr, I can 341 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: only imagine and different than you might think. Oh really, 342 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,360 Speaker 1: is he really like twee and whimsical? No, he's very 343 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:42,920 Speaker 1: intense and uh hetty spiritual and hetty. Oh yeah, super smart. Yeah, 344 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 1: not that I thought he was dumb, but he can 345 00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:49,720 Speaker 1: he can play that. I got all right, Where were we? 346 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,200 Speaker 1: We're talking about barefoot running and how some the people 347 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,600 Speaker 1: who are proponents say if you throw your shoes away, 348 00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:58,359 Speaker 1: you will fix all these modern problems. Yeah. So the 349 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:01,400 Speaker 1: idea is that you know, your your feet have these 350 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: nerve endings that will give you feedback when you're making 351 00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: contact with the ground that you don't get when you're 352 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: wearing these shoes, and they will tell you how to 353 00:20:11,119 --> 00:20:14,400 Speaker 1: walk basically depending on what kind of terrain you're on, 354 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,200 Speaker 1: and your body adjust accordingly and had for many, many years. 355 00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 1: The other thing that they say is with um without shoes, 356 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: you actually run differently than you do with shoes. And 357 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,639 Speaker 1: this seems to be the genuine article argument for or 358 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,359 Speaker 1: against barefoot running, and it seems to kind of land 359 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 1: in favor of barefoot running to tell you the truth. 360 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:40,720 Speaker 1: So should we talk about the the old heel first thing? Yeah, 361 00:20:40,760 --> 00:20:44,800 Speaker 1: he'll striking, Yeah, he'lls you know, when you run if 362 00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 1: someone cause I don't run, but if someone were to, 363 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: you know, steal something from me on the street and 364 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,120 Speaker 1: I had to run you would see me take off 365 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,520 Speaker 1: down the road, and you would notice that my heels 366 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:59,399 Speaker 1: are striking the ground first and with a pretty great impact, 367 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:01,359 Speaker 1: and pool like me would see you and be like 368 00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: that's terrible form, yeah, and say you're never going to 369 00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:07,119 Speaker 1: catch that guy. Just don't even bother. So when you 370 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: run like that, it actually hurts pretty quickly, and you're 371 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:17,040 Speaker 1: actually propelling yourself in a weird way backwards, Like when 372 00:21:17,040 --> 00:21:19,760 Speaker 1: you bring your heel down, your foot is up and 373 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: your heel is actually hitting the ground at a direction 374 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: opposite the direction that you're trying to go. If you 375 00:21:27,720 --> 00:21:30,480 Speaker 1: like freeze frame that for it's a kind of a 376 00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:32,520 Speaker 1: long running stride. That's what it would look like. So 377 00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: just as far as like running form goes, it's not 378 00:21:34,880 --> 00:21:37,000 Speaker 1: a good way to run. Anybody who runs can tell 379 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 1: you that you're not supposed to heal strike, although it 380 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:42,320 Speaker 1: feels very natural when you're in shoes, if you take 381 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: off your shoes and you heel strike, you'll take about 382 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:47,399 Speaker 1: two steps and just your head will just explode with 383 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 1: pain at your heel. Yeah, because your heel is not 384 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: made to be run on. Now, if you lean forward 385 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: and run on the mid the midfoot or the ball 386 00:21:57,880 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 1: of your feet. You'll find run barefoot is much more comfortable. 387 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,200 Speaker 1: And that's what a lot of people who are proponents 388 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,040 Speaker 1: of barefoot running say is this is how you're supposed 389 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:10,240 Speaker 1: to run, and this is how barefoot running makes you run. 390 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: When you wear shoes, it's much easier to heal strike. 391 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,520 Speaker 1: You have to remember not to do that right like 392 00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,280 Speaker 1: a sprinter. When you see these Olympic sprinters, they're not 393 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:22,359 Speaker 1: heal striking right, They're they're pitched forward a bit and 394 00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: they're running up on the front or at least the 395 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,239 Speaker 1: mid of their foot. You see how fast they go. 396 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:31,520 Speaker 1: I took a running class once. No, No, it's like 397 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 1: just to learn how to run better, just like out 398 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,520 Speaker 1: in the shop, out in the world. What's it called 399 00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:43,040 Speaker 1: continuing education adult? It nights school, I think, um. And 400 00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:48,199 Speaker 1: what I was taught was that running is falling forward 401 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,080 Speaker 1: and catching yourself over and over again. So the whole 402 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: time you have to go right, will flail your arm basically. Um. 403 00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 1: But you do that in a controlled manner obviously. UM. 404 00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: But that's when when you when you learn that and 405 00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 1: you try it, it forces you to run on the 406 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,359 Speaker 1: balls or the midfoot. Midfoot's what I learned is the 407 00:23:10,359 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 1: best way to do it. So you did this to 408 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,919 Speaker 1: learn like proper technique and stuff. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, 409 00:23:15,000 --> 00:23:17,440 Speaker 1: and once you once you try it, remind yourself that 410 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,719 Speaker 1: you you can actually feel yourself doing it and you 411 00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: realize you're in the right form when you feel like 412 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 1: there's this slight falling forward sensation. Yeah. You know, the 413 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,359 Speaker 1: last time I was did any kind of running was 414 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,439 Speaker 1: when I was playing softball, which is all sprinting. And 415 00:23:34,359 --> 00:23:36,399 Speaker 1: even for a guy with extra pounds I was. I 416 00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:38,960 Speaker 1: was always pretty quick, believe it or not, birth to speed, 417 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: burst of speed, and I would uh, I would just 418 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: naturally Jerry's laughing over there. I would naturally run, um, 419 00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: not on my tippy toes, but kind of pretty far forward. Yeah. 420 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:54,359 Speaker 1: I would mince toward that first base bag. Yeah, And 421 00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:56,679 Speaker 1: people would be like, do you get that tinking sound? 422 00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: And look how fast that dude is. Is that a 423 00:23:59,400 --> 00:24:01,480 Speaker 1: rainbow tree behind him in his wake? Yeah, he looks 424 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 1: like he's about to fall over. And sometimes I did, 425 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,800 Speaker 1: oh really no, But I saw other other dudes. You know, 426 00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,600 Speaker 1: this is an old bar guy league. So um, let's 427 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,600 Speaker 1: see some pretty funny running and some weird balance issues. 428 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: Guys kind of falling down and tripping and clumsy because 429 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: of all the drunkenness. And now we didn't drink before games. 430 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: But yeah, well what about during? No, I didn't what 431 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,879 Speaker 1: about Okay, now they would go afterward, but I didn't 432 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,760 Speaker 1: socialize with this crowd much. You hated them so much. 433 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 1: I was just the ace pitcher who would come in 434 00:24:34,480 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: and then go home and like ice my elbow. Oh 435 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: that's pretty cool. You were like the closer. Huh. No, 436 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:40,879 Speaker 1: I pitched the whole game. Oh really, but I was 437 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: a specialist. I got you specialisted just winning? Yeah, that 438 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,400 Speaker 1: was it. All you do? Is that's it. Well, let's 439 00:24:49,440 --> 00:24:52,439 Speaker 1: take a break, Chuck, because I feel like this is 440 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: so far off the rails. I don't even remember what 441 00:24:54,640 --> 00:25:15,199 Speaker 1: the topic is. All right, let's do it. So what 442 00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: is the topic? Barefoot running? And we should say that 443 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:23,600 Speaker 1: when we say barefoot, that there's a range of how 444 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,960 Speaker 1: bare your foot is. It can be completely bare some 445 00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 1: but some people just go completely foot naked. Um. Then 446 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:36,240 Speaker 1: there are these uh, I don't know what you call them. 447 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,719 Speaker 1: They're they're about as minimal as you can get. It's 448 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: almost like a little tire flat, like you were saying 449 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: it's called minimalist shoes. Yeah. It's just a really thin 450 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 1: rubber sandal essentially, and I've seen that for running. But 451 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 1: what I've mainly seen those four is just people saying 452 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: just go out and be in the world and these things. 453 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 1: Oh okay, so are you talking about the sandal ones 454 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: that like going between your your big toe in the 455 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:02,920 Speaker 1: next toes little webbing. Yeah, it's just like a shoe 456 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,520 Speaker 1: string and a piece of rubber. They also came up 457 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,600 Speaker 1: with shoes shoes that are are called minimal issues. There's 458 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,040 Speaker 1: much more to them than what you just described that. 459 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:13,919 Speaker 1: You know, they wrap around your the top of your 460 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,520 Speaker 1: foot but have a similar footbed. That shoe you you 461 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 1: just mentioned is like the Tarma Tara Tara Maara Indian. Yeah, 462 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,399 Speaker 1: but they make theirs out of old tires, which is 463 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,080 Speaker 1: even Googler, you know, totally um So, so there is 464 00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:33,480 Speaker 1: like different degrees of it. And the reason that people 465 00:26:33,520 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: started wearing things that I think the company Vibrum made 466 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:41,240 Speaker 1: a sock with some tread on the bottom. Remember I 467 00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: got in trouble for bagging on those years ago five 468 00:26:43,520 --> 00:26:45,560 Speaker 1: toad sock. Yeah, I made fun of those and people 469 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: wrote in had their feelings hurt. Yes, I'll bet those. 470 00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:52,720 Speaker 1: Some people do not wear those. Um. I remember going 471 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: to a Cyndey Lauper concert with you me and there 472 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,240 Speaker 1: was a couple there and they were wearing matching vibrum shoes, 473 00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 1: sock shoes whatever, minimalist shoes, and where you guys like, hey, 474 00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: we should do that. I will never forget them. They 475 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: looked like they could like they were going to it 476 00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: any minute, just just kind of go from walking on 477 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:13,040 Speaker 1: their feet to just walking on their hands and then 478 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: back on their feet and then back on the head. 479 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:17,600 Speaker 1: That's just what they looked like for some reason, because 480 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:19,919 Speaker 1: they weren't wearing workout gear anything. This is like just 481 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: the shoes they were wearing out there in the world 482 00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,359 Speaker 1: because a lot of people say like, no, don't just 483 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: do this for running, like do this for life basically? Yeah, 484 00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I love I've always been a barefoot person. 485 00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 1: When I was a kid, I would play a lot 486 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 1: in bare feet and always had really tough foot beds, 487 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,720 Speaker 1: natural foot beds. What do you call those soles of 488 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:43,600 Speaker 1: your feet? Yeah, they're always pretty tough and still are. Yeah. Well, 489 00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:47,240 Speaker 1: Daniel Lieberman the paleo anthropologists did another study recently, I 490 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,800 Speaker 1: think in two nine, and he found that Um, I 491 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:54,520 Speaker 1: guess by the way, he won an ignoble prize for 492 00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:58,560 Speaker 1: figuring out why pregnant women don't tip over back in 493 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,920 Speaker 1: like two nine. Yeah, what was the answer? The way 494 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:06,800 Speaker 1: that they leaned backward and there's additional lumbar support in 495 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,639 Speaker 1: their lower back, and I think maybe the way the 496 00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,320 Speaker 1: fetus lays. It's all like just kind of that's how 497 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: we've evolved to not fall over basically. But this more 498 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,120 Speaker 1: recent UM work, he went to Kenya and he studied 499 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,119 Speaker 1: uh native Kenyans, who basically lived their lives without wearing shoes. 500 00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:29,520 Speaker 1: He studied Americans who have worn shoes their whole life, 501 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 1: and then he studied Americans who wore shoes and then 502 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 1: made the transition over to barefoot running. And he found 503 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: that the Kenyan UM subjects all had deep callouses on 504 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,280 Speaker 1: their feet, so he thought that they would not be 505 00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:44,960 Speaker 1: as sensitive, and he found that that's actually not the case. 506 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 1: That they're much better off because they have these callouses, 507 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 1: so their feet are naturally prevented from things like cuts 508 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: and punctures and things like that because they're just tougher 509 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: on the bottom. But the callouses don't cover up their 510 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: nerve endings, so they're still feed coming from the ground. 511 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,440 Speaker 1: But the feet are also protected by the calluses, which 512 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: is kind of surprising from what I understand. Right, and 513 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: his buddy, the anthropologist Brian Richmond, who he worked with, 514 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,960 Speaker 1: I think he was from GW University. He's he was 515 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: talking about the arch of the foot and those ligaments 516 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: and he says, this thing stretch and contract every time 517 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: you hit the ground, and that allows the calf muscle 518 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 1: to act as a spring. Yes, so that's what I've 519 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: seen barefoot running. Um. One of the reasons why they say, 520 00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,320 Speaker 1: like no, it's just healthier and less injury prone is 521 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 1: because of that the arch of your foot acting is 522 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:38,680 Speaker 1: a spring, and then your achilles heel and your calf 523 00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 1: muscle acting as a shock absorber. But that these are 524 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 1: the things that come into play when you run on 525 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: the ball of your foot or midfoot. When you heal strike, 526 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 1: you are offloading that same force, maybe even more force, 527 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: but the full weight of your body coming down on 528 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: your heel, that doesn't utilize the calf or the Achilles tendon. 529 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,720 Speaker 1: It sends this shock wave of force back upward to 530 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: your knees in your hips, and that that is why um, 531 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:12,240 Speaker 1: heel striking is so bad for you, whereas um, running 532 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: on the ball of your feet is probably better, or 533 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 1: is your midfoot is probably much better because that that 534 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:22,400 Speaker 1: force is distributed to the right places. In other words, Yeah, 535 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,760 Speaker 1: and the skeptics will say, you know, you start you 536 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:28,960 Speaker 1: other than start running barefoot, you're gonna get hurt. And 537 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:32,040 Speaker 1: then adherents will say, that's because you just throw your 538 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: shoes in the trash and go out into your workout routine. 539 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: It's like, if you want to do this, you gotta 540 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:41,720 Speaker 1: really wade into this water very slowly. And they recommend 541 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,360 Speaker 1: even which sounds kind of silly, but they recommend doing 542 00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: something you probably do every day anyway, which is walking 543 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 1: around your house with no shoes on if you're a 544 00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: normal human being. Yes, and then um, then start walking 545 00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:58,120 Speaker 1: outside on different terrains, just walking without shoes on soft 546 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,760 Speaker 1: terrains first, yeah, you know, like dirt grass or something. 547 00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:02,960 Speaker 1: Then working your way up to pavement and asphalt and 548 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,120 Speaker 1: stuff like that. Then broken flaming glass. That's right, that's 549 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,200 Speaker 1: the final But they say you really got to work 550 00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 1: into it otherwise, like any radical new thing, you're gonna 551 00:31:12,640 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 1: do to your body. You can't just shock it. Yeah, 552 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: and not just because of your feet in the bottoms 553 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 1: of your feet either. Um, you be tried the new 554 00:31:21,640 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 1: balanced minimalists years and years maybe two thousand and eleven, 555 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 1: something like that, And she had read like I think 556 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,880 Speaker 1: the people who solder the shoes even totally like opposite. 557 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,240 Speaker 1: They're like, do not do your normal run? Like do 558 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: a third of it, I think, is what they said. 559 00:31:38,400 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 1: And human's like nuts to that, and did her normal 560 00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: run maybe even then some And I thought she may 561 00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 1: have been crippled for life after, yes, because she was 562 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,600 Speaker 1: used to heal striking, because she's been running like everybody 563 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:52,960 Speaker 1: else this whole time, and all of a sudden she's 564 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,200 Speaker 1: running on the balls of her feet, not even her midfoot, 565 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: the balls of her feet, so all that stuff is 566 00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: getting moved into the calf muscles, which just get overloaded 567 00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: with this workout and just later up for seriously, like 568 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: about five days, she could not run. She was so sore. 569 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: Could she walk or was she barely barely? Like the 570 00:32:11,160 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: kind where you know, have have your muscle has ever 571 00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:16,320 Speaker 1: been so sore that you feel like flu like almost 572 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: like that? Yeah, like it was bad news, and she's like, 573 00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 1: you should try this, and I'm like, not on your life. 574 00:32:25,440 --> 00:32:27,960 Speaker 1: That's very Uni like, like, yeah, they can't tell me 575 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:29,840 Speaker 1: what to do, right, Yeah, they don't know me. They 576 00:32:29,880 --> 00:32:32,560 Speaker 1: must have been talking about themselves. That's great. And there 577 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:34,960 Speaker 1: is another study I think this was even from kind 578 00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,840 Speaker 1: of late last year, that we found an outside magazine 579 00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: from a study that was in the Journal of Applied 580 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:47,400 Speaker 1: Physiology from Peter Wehend and his biomechanics group at s 581 00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: m U. That's Southern Methodist. I think there's some kind 582 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 1: of a horse mascot the Stallions I just remember, I 583 00:32:57,200 --> 00:33:00,280 Speaker 1: mean they were they didn't never mind the only do 584 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,720 Speaker 1: we really want to talk college football? The well, I 585 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,040 Speaker 1: mean you could everybody like volleyball or high a lie, 586 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:07,360 Speaker 1: it doesn't just have to be football. Well, that's true, 587 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: that was some kind of a horse. You were so 588 00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:13,640 Speaker 1: sec I am so uh. We should point out that 589 00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: when you're doing these kind of studies, there are a 590 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:18,080 Speaker 1: couple of ways to go about it. There's a something 591 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,480 Speaker 1: called a force measuring treadmill or a force plate that's 592 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: kind of installed on the ground and you run on 593 00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:26,960 Speaker 1: it and it really measures and can show a you know, 594 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:28,960 Speaker 1: a graph on a curve or a curve on a 595 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 1: graph on where your foot is exactly striking. And what 596 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:36,880 Speaker 1: that means, right, It shows the force not not just 597 00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:39,959 Speaker 1: like where like in space, it's more like it tracks 598 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: the force over time. I think, Yeah, so this is 599 00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:45,360 Speaker 1: how they're doing all this. They're not just kind of 600 00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,680 Speaker 1: guessing by watching people. Right, this is Lieberman specifically, I 601 00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:52,360 Speaker 1: think too. That's right. And by the way, there's somebody 602 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,680 Speaker 1: knocking somewhere in this building. We're trying to get to 603 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: the bottom of it. Jerry's walking around with a machete, right, 604 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: but blood We're hoping we can get it out in 605 00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,000 Speaker 1: the edit. But if you hear some knocking, we're really sorry. 606 00:34:05,240 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: But I think you'll agree with us in this episode, 607 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,360 Speaker 1: it sincerely doesn't matter. It's probably like half of the 608 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,319 Speaker 1: normal amount of people listening at this point. So back 609 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: to this study they're using, uh, they use this treadmill 610 00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:24,160 Speaker 1: and these force plates, and what they are determined determining 611 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 1: is something called the loading rate, which is how quickly 612 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: that forces applied. Yeah, and what they found is that 613 00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:33,279 Speaker 1: when your heel or the ball of your foot or 614 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:38,239 Speaker 1: wherever your foot strikes, there's like this initial force that 615 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,799 Speaker 1: is transferred through your body from the ground hitting from 616 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,560 Speaker 1: your foot hitting the ground right, which will show up 617 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 1: as a spike on this graph right, depending on how 618 00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,439 Speaker 1: quick that force is transferred. That's that loading rate, right, 619 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,040 Speaker 1: And then what follows is the rest of your body 620 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 1: weight and it's reaching its lowest point in your stride, 621 00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:56,560 Speaker 1: and then you go back up and push off the 622 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 1: ground and you start all over again. That's like one 623 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,319 Speaker 1: stride and that's what these force plates measure. Yeah, but 624 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,760 Speaker 1: what they found is when you run on the ball 625 00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:10,800 Speaker 1: or midfoot, when that's what touches the ground, that actually 626 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:17,160 Speaker 1: distributes and kind of prolongs that force long enough that 627 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: it actually merges with that second that second introduction of 628 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,000 Speaker 1: force the rest of your body weight into basically one 629 00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:28,800 Speaker 1: force curve. Yeah. I think for a while they looked 630 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:31,920 Speaker 1: at the spike and when they ran on the midfoot, 631 00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,920 Speaker 1: that spike was gone. But what they determined was it's 632 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,440 Speaker 1: not gone at all. It is, like you said, just 633 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:39,560 Speaker 1: kind of covered up and merged with the other. But 634 00:35:39,640 --> 00:35:42,400 Speaker 1: that was that early evidence from two ten that Lieberman 635 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,800 Speaker 1: came out with that supported Christopher McDougal's born to Run hypothesis. 636 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 1: The spike wasn't there when you run barefoot, it is 637 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: there when you run in shoes because you're heel striking. 638 00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:56,600 Speaker 1: This leaves a really important question, though, Chuck, because so 639 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: this new this new research is basically saying, like, all 640 00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 1: that off, that's not the case anymore. We just change 641 00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:06,600 Speaker 1: our loading rate depending but it's ultimately the same amount 642 00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,319 Speaker 1: of force getting transferred through the body, depending on what 643 00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:12,240 Speaker 1: kind of shoe protection you're wearing. But I think, what 644 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 1: what's weird to me and what I didn't understand with 645 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: this new new research is if it's going to different places, 646 00:36:19,239 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: If that shock is being absorbed by your achilles tendon 647 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,799 Speaker 1: and your calf rather than your knees and hips, who 648 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:29,160 Speaker 1: cares If the loading rate is the same, Um, it's 649 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,480 Speaker 1: going to different parts of your body in some parts 650 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,320 Speaker 1: are designed to handle um that shocked better than others. 651 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,360 Speaker 1: Is that what they're saying, like, Uh, you may be 652 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,239 Speaker 1: less likely to get injured because the parts of your 653 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,920 Speaker 1: legs that are affected are more capable of handling it. Yeah, 654 00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:46,319 Speaker 1: that when you run barefoot, because you're running on your 655 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,400 Speaker 1: fore foot or your midfoot and you're distributing that force 656 00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,240 Speaker 1: to your calf and your Achilles tendant. That that, yeah, 657 00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:55,759 Speaker 1: that you're less likely to get injured because of that, 658 00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: because you're taking that stress off of your knees and hips. 659 00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:02,080 Speaker 1: My question is this, wouldn't you be better off than 660 00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:07,040 Speaker 1: running in shoes but hitting your fore ft or midfoot 661 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:11,800 Speaker 1: best of both worlds in other words, which is probably? 662 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: I mean that's what I do. So, I mean, of 663 00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,919 Speaker 1: course it's there right doing great, But I think that 664 00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:19,880 Speaker 1: that must be the case. But I didn't see anything 665 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: where it's like this is definitive. Still after ten years 666 00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: of us being a huge trend, of a lot of 667 00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,759 Speaker 1: studies being done, a lot of people who are very 668 00:37:28,840 --> 00:37:32,120 Speaker 1: smart have thought about this, it's still not definitive what 669 00:37:32,239 --> 00:37:35,200 Speaker 1: the best way to run is. And I think we 670 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: go back to me, which is to not run right 671 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:40,839 Speaker 1: and just walk right. But I think the last thing 672 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,359 Speaker 1: thing that I saw from this is that, so if 673 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,319 Speaker 1: you like our track coach, they frequently now prescribe um 674 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:51,160 Speaker 1: running barefoot in the grass as a cool down after 675 00:37:51,239 --> 00:37:53,399 Speaker 1: the race. Yeah. And then the other thing you'll see 676 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,560 Speaker 1: too is the era of the very chunky heel running 677 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,520 Speaker 1: shoe has kind of on because of this. Yeah, it 678 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,279 Speaker 1: feels like they've gotten a little leaner, haven't they. They 679 00:38:04,320 --> 00:38:07,319 Speaker 1: have because when you have a chunky heel, what's called 680 00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:10,760 Speaker 1: your shoe drop, which is the ratio of um where 681 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:14,600 Speaker 1: your heel lands in relation to the front of your foot. 682 00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:18,360 Speaker 1: So like in the higher the shoe drop, the thicker 683 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: the chunkier your heel is, it's impossible not to heal strike. 684 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 1: So what they figured out is if you kind of 685 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,279 Speaker 1: drop that heel down more in line with the front 686 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:27,920 Speaker 1: of your foot, you can run on the front of 687 00:38:27,920 --> 00:38:30,840 Speaker 1: your foot a lot more easily and not heal strike 688 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,440 Speaker 1: in your shoes. Yeah, those big, tall heeled running shoes too, 689 00:38:34,480 --> 00:38:37,760 Speaker 1: are always made me more susceptible to an ankle turn 690 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: as well. You know that just your you're kind of 691 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: up there you are. It's kind of like walking in 692 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,640 Speaker 1: high heels or something. I wouldn't know about that, but 693 00:38:45,719 --> 00:38:49,280 Speaker 1: you can imagine. Sure, okay, you got anything else. Nothing, 694 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:52,440 Speaker 1: So that's barefoot running. It sounds like the jury is 695 00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,920 Speaker 1: still out everybody. But if you do get into barefoot running, 696 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,240 Speaker 1: do it slowly. Learn learn the lesson from you. Mar 697 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 1: And since I said that, it's time for listener man, Hey, guys. 698 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:07,480 Speaker 1: On the safe Cracking episode, I was reminded of a 699 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,320 Speaker 1: track by Bristol based music producer in the UK Tricky 700 00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,120 Speaker 1: We know Tricky, Sure, I think you gotta explain that 701 00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:17,320 Speaker 1: to us. Come on, everybody knows Trickies from Bristol based 702 00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: which featured on an album he released called Product of 703 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: the Environment. It was a series of interviews with old 704 00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: school London gangsters from the Create Twins era, telling their 705 00:39:26,480 --> 00:39:29,360 Speaker 1: stories of lives of crime over trip hop beats. That 706 00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:32,720 Speaker 1: sounds awesome. One of these was Bernie Lee, who learned 707 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: his safe cracking trade while in prison. His favorite technique 708 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:38,520 Speaker 1: was to blow the doors off with nitroglycerin, which you 709 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: touched on the episode, but not in that context. Check 710 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: it out here insert hyperlink also MGE three seventy. At 711 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:51,359 Speaker 1: the end of the episode, the second one, Josh question 712 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,400 Speaker 1: the ability to tag all pieces of a plane with 713 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: its call sign. Speculating on the existence of such tech, 714 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,880 Speaker 1: Chuck said that was the future. Well, it's actually the present. 715 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: What smart water not the bottle Drinking water is a 716 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,840 Speaker 1: technology that encodes detailed info of a thing within water 717 00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 1: and then is applied to said thing, allowing that info 718 00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:16,080 Speaker 1: to be read later on if necessary. The only problem 719 00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,400 Speaker 1: it evaporates. It's apparently quite robust, so it doesn't simply 720 00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,400 Speaker 1: wash off or whatever. But I don't have firstand experience, 721 00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: so it can't be exactly sure how it works or 722 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,880 Speaker 1: how it's read. BT Open Reach, the UK's main telecom 723 00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:34,080 Speaker 1: network provider, uses it to tag the copper wires that 724 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,600 Speaker 1: make up the network, is a deterrent following a spade 725 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: of copper theft about seven years ago. Interesting, I feel 726 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,840 Speaker 1: like I'm losing my mind right now. That's from Liam. 727 00:40:42,880 --> 00:40:45,640 Speaker 1: He says, big up. Thanks Liam. Here in the States 728 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:51,360 Speaker 1: we say big ups. That's right. They dropped the s there? Aluminum? 729 00:40:51,560 --> 00:40:54,360 Speaker 1: Was that in this episode? Now? Can't you believe that 730 00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:59,000 Speaker 1: this might be the longest episode we've ever done on nothing? Well, 731 00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:00,400 Speaker 1: if you want to get in touch of this, like 732 00:41:00,520 --> 00:41:03,160 Speaker 1: Liam did, you can go on to stuff you Should 733 00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:07,280 Speaker 1: Know dot com uh and who knows what's there these days? Instead, 734 00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:09,759 Speaker 1: why don't you just send us an email, wrap it up, 735 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:11,440 Speaker 1: spank it on the bottom, and send it off to 736 00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:17,560 Speaker 1: stuff podcast at iHeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should 737 00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: Know is a production of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. 738 00:41:20,080 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the iHeart 739 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:24,920 Speaker 1: Radio app Apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your 740 00:41:24,920 --> 00:41:25,600 Speaker 1: favorite shows.