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Speaker 1: Also media.

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Speaker 2: Anybody mind if I riker with the chair here a

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Speaker 2: little bit. Welcome to Behind the Bastards Live, our first

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Speaker 2: live show.

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Speaker 3: This is our first.

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Speaker 2: Live show in a little while, because I don't like

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Speaker 2: leaving the house and I am a deranged shut in

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Speaker 2: who's increasingly losing his connection to the world in reality,

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Speaker 2: like a lot of people presidents for example. Before we

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Speaker 2: get into the show today, I have a couple of

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Speaker 2: very special people to introduce. First off, my producer and

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Speaker 2: business partner, the inimitable Sophie Luctma, and then, of course

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Speaker 2: our guest for tonight, the host of Hood Politics, and

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Speaker 2: my good friend Jason Petty aka prop.

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Speaker 1: A.

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Speaker 4: I go, yeah, what's clack a massive? You know what

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Speaker 4: I'm saying, y'all feeling I've been.

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Speaker 3: Playing that well all day? Yeah, I say I was

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Speaker 3: clack a massive. We workshopped that.

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Speaker 2: That was like forty thousand dollars in develop meant Yeah,

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Speaker 2: Jay Leno's writers don't come cheap, but worth it obviously clearly.

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Speaker 2: So welcome everybody. Thank you for dealing with you know,

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Speaker 2: the line, the security measures and stuff. I think, for

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Speaker 2: obvious reasons, we're all a little bit extra careful these days.

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Speaker 5: Why did something happen?

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Speaker 3: No, not that I'm aware of.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, so we've got a special night planned for everybody. First,

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Speaker 2: I want to thank all of you for coming out

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Speaker 2: and supporting the Portland Defense Fund. It's a really good

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Speaker 2: cause and y'all have raised north of thirty thousand dollars

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Speaker 2: so far for them. Yeah, that goes a long way,

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Speaker 2: and especially considering most of the people who need help

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Speaker 2: with that. We're talking about like houseless folks. We're talking

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Speaker 2: about people who have absolutely no access to resources, and

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Speaker 2: this is the only lifeline they're going to get and

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Speaker 2: the only help they're going to get. So thank you

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Speaker 2: all for helping to keep that lifeline alive.

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Speaker 5: Brownd of applause for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, random applause for everybody in the audience

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Speaker 2: except one of you.

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Speaker 3: Motherfuckers. They know who they are, not you, mom.

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Speaker 4: Also, uh, just a just a quick show of hands

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Speaker 4: because it's a gang of white people in here.

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Speaker 3: H it is Portland. It is Portland.

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Speaker 4: If you got like a drip of melanin in you

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Speaker 4: can you make some noise real quick?

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Speaker 3: I just want to see, Okay.

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Speaker 4: You've got more than a drip, make some noise. You

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Speaker 4: got a lot of it makes some noise. Okay, that's

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Speaker 4: my section right there. Okay, mak a sure. I was like,

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Speaker 4: he's gotta be uh, it's got to be at least five.

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Speaker 2: Well, here, prop, it's good that you introduced that because

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Speaker 2: our subject for these episodes.

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Speaker 3: Hey, look, it's not a bit. We never know, like

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Speaker 3: you never know before we start.

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Speaker 5: Should we give them the drinking game rules?

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Speaker 2: We do have a drinking game, Yes, there are, let

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Speaker 2: me let me yeah, we'll do so. The drinking game

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Speaker 2: rules are as follows. First off, be responsible, don't drive, okay,

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Speaker 2: don't operate heavy machinery unless it seems like it would

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Speaker 2: be really funny. So first off, take a drink. If

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Speaker 2: the subject of the podcast directly or indirectly kill somebody.

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Speaker 5: Second of all, if goes you know what I'm saying.

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Speaker 2: No, no, no, Sophie, we can't legally that'll the people

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Speaker 2: will die.

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Speaker 5: I'm doing it.

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Speaker 4: Alcohol the boyson, I'm trying to get y'll twisted. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I'm saying that's what I'm saying.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if Robert says right, take a shot. Second of all,

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Speaker 3: oh no, that I'm doing that one. Oh god, now

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Speaker 3: that counted.

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Speaker 5: Third third is war crimes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when there's a war crime committed, take a drink.

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Speaker 5: And this one might really hurt everyone. But if I

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Speaker 5: have to go Robert no.

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Speaker 2: So, when I was a young man in about two

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Speaker 2: thousand and five or two thousand and six, I came

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Speaker 2: across a bunch of torrents from a documentary TV series

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Speaker 2: called Weird Weekends made by a British fella named Louis Theroux. Now,

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Speaker 2: one of the episodes, released in nineteen ninety eight, was

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Speaker 2: about survivalists. In it, Louis met a bunch of weirdo

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Speaker 2: libertarian far right and some outright Nazi weirdos who were

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Speaker 2: living off grid in rural Idaho.

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Speaker 3: This was probably what about that doesn't scan rural Idaho? Okay?

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Speaker 4: When you were a young boy, yeah, I was like

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Speaker 4: eighteen nineteen. Yeah, when I was a young boy, my

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Speaker 4: father took me into the city to.

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Speaker 3: See a marching band.

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Speaker 6: Yeah wow, but uh.

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Speaker 3: Rural Idaho Okay?

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Speaker 4: Uh yea, I think I know where we're going with that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So this is probably my first journalistic introduction to content

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Speaker 2: on the militia movement and the at that point still

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Speaker 2: nascent post Oklahoma City bombing. White supremacist movement. Much of

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Speaker 2: the episode took place in an intentional community for these

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Speaker 2: people named Almost Heaven, which was founded and operated by

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Speaker 2: the subject of our episodes today, a famous figure in

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Speaker 2: the right wing underground named Bo Grits.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we know, we got some Bowers. We got some

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Speaker 3: Bo some Bowers. Yeah.

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Speaker 6: Uh.

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Speaker 3: Now the spot was called almost Heaven, Almost Heaven. Almost.

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Speaker 3: We'll get to there at the end.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they were really close, Okay, just like all those

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Speaker 2: people who nearly got raptured, right.

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Speaker 3: I mean, look almost so.

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Speaker 2: And by the way, Bo Grits, the name is spelled Gritz,

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Speaker 2: but it's pronounced Grits.

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Speaker 3: It is.

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Speaker 2: It's You can tell a lot about the journalists reporting

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Speaker 2: on him because they'll either say that his name rhymes

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Speaker 2: when they're writing about him, that his name rhymes with

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Speaker 2: sights as in rifle sights, or bites, which I think

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Speaker 2: was a subtle way of expressing bias, because Bo rites

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Speaker 2: definitely bites in like the.

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Speaker 3: Late nineties sense of the word wind to them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, like bit me right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 2: So the main claim to fame that you'll find if

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Speaker 2: you read anything on Bo is that he was the

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Speaker 2: guy whose real life inspired the character John Rambo. He's

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Speaker 2: the real Rambo. Rambo was based on him. Whoa cool right?

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Speaker 2: That can't be tru Absolutely not true. It's it's a

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Speaker 2: partial true, right. If you've seen Rambo First Blood, the

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Speaker 2: first Rambo movie, pretty good movie. It's about like a

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Speaker 2: traumatized Vietnam veteran who gets abused by small town sheriffs,

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Speaker 2: like an hour and a half north of here. It's

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Speaker 2: about like PTSD, he's got severe. It's like not jingoistic

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Speaker 2: at all. It's not a very pro America movie. The

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Speaker 2: sequel to Rambo First Blood Rambo First Blood Part Two,

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Speaker 2: because we used to know how to name things in.

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Speaker 3: This fucking country.

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Speaker 4: It's also a very great Nintendo games.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, a banger. Yes.

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Speaker 2: The sequel, Rambo First Blood Part Two was a very

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Speaker 2: different movie. Instead of a traumatized veteran getting like abused

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Speaker 2: by police and kind of losing his mind, John Rambo

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Speaker 2: has to go fight the refight the Vietnam War. To

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Speaker 2: go rescue a bunch of POW's is part of a

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Speaker 2: secret black ops operation. And this is the thing that's

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Speaker 2: based on bow grits. Okay, right, So that's where we're.

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Speaker 3: Building towards.

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Speaker 2: So James bow grits. I don't know where the bow

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Speaker 2: came from. Don't ask me. I can't answer that for you.

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Speaker 3: A what was that?

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Speaker 4: She's white people, y'all.

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Speaker 2: They don't get wider because our man. Bo was born

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Speaker 2: January eighteenth, nineteen thirty nine, and Enid, Oklahoma.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this dude is just hidden all the notes.

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Speaker 2: As a white kid from Oklahoma. That Oklahoma white people different.

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Speaker 4: I will say this about Oklahoma white people. Now we

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Speaker 4: don't have much time, but I will.

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Speaker 3: Say it is where is this going?

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Speaker 4: No, listen ya like Oklahoma white people know their way

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Speaker 4: around a grill.

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Speaker 3: That's that. That is true.

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Speaker 4: Ya can make some barbecue, yeah, baby, season in a food.

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Speaker 3: Don't get in a car with them, though. Don't get

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Speaker 3: in a Carlo.

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Speaker 2: So He was born January eighteenth, nineteen thirty nine, the

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Speaker 2: only child to a family who was about to be

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Speaker 2: deeply rocked by war. His father was an Army Air

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Speaker 2: Corps pilot, and once the US entered the Big Dub

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Speaker 2: Dub Dose, he flew B seventeen's and was shot down

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Speaker 2: over France in November of nineteen forty four.

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Speaker 3: Bo was five.

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Speaker 2: An article by Art Harris in The Washington Post describes

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Speaker 2: Bo as feeling as if his father died fighting the

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Speaker 2: right war, Bo's gonna be in Vietnam. So this is

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Speaker 2: pretty easy to understand, right, Oh, okay, I missed.

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Speaker 3: The Good War by two wars. Just two wars. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: this craz so.

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Speaker 2: As a child, Bo worshiped his dad and seems to

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Speaker 2: have never considered anything but a military career. And while

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Speaker 2: his father had died over Europe, Bo fantasized for whatever

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Speaker 2: reason about well, I think there's one very clear reason

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Speaker 2: about fighting Japanese soldiers. Right, his dad dies fighting the Nazis,

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Speaker 2: Bo's always going to be real interested in fighting the Japanese.

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Speaker 3: Here's a quote from Bo.

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Speaker 2: We had a big wheat field in front of my

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Speaker 2: house and I had hide in there. I always saw

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Speaker 2: myself in a jungle environment. There was a dirt runway,

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Speaker 2: and I had a P fifty one Mustang and lived

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Speaker 2: in a grass hut with a brown woman.

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Speaker 3: Every morning I put on.

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Speaker 2: My leather jacket, get into my aircraft and fly off

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Speaker 2: to do combat against the enemy all day long.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. He just said that upro six, like.

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Speaker 4: Littit of crass, would a brow woman first of all,

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Speaker 4: hard agree.

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Speaker 3: But also.

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Speaker 5: It's the hut.

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Speaker 3: For me, it's the hut, the hut issue.

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Speaker 2: Issue. Okay, so Bo spent a lot of time hiding

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Speaker 2: in cover in his front porch with a bb gun,

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Speaker 2: shooting at toys that he'd set up in the yard.

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Speaker 2: One day he shot a toy truck. The BBI ricocheted

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Speaker 2: and hit Bow in the eye. It was a bad

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Speaker 2: enough injury. There's a weird right wing militia guy. Think

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Speaker 2: of shooting yourself in the eye if you remember the

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Speaker 2: oath Keeper's founder Stuart Rhodes, who really blasted the eye

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Speaker 2: out there with a straight up real gun. But anyway,

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Speaker 2: Bo doesn't lose his eye, otherwise this would be a

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Speaker 2: very different story. But he has to explain to the

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Speaker 2: doctor what happens, and he just tells the doctor the and.

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Speaker 3: He uses a slur for Japanese soldiers here.

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Speaker 4: Shot back, right, so hey, but that's not what happened,

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Speaker 4: all right. You just said he shot himself. Well he

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Speaker 4: ricochet ricochet. I don't know if you want to count

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Speaker 4: that as shooting himself.

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Speaker 3: I do. It's bad gun safety, right, can we say that? Yeah? Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it called me low key, like he kind of shot

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Speaker 3: himself it's not a pattern yet, but it's weird that

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Speaker 3: it happened twice with right wing militia leaders.

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Speaker 2: Right, we're just waiting for one more of these guys

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Speaker 2: to get their own eye and then we uh, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, no predicting like.

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Speaker 3: A free coffee. Okay, free coffee, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Bo was raised by his maternal grandparents, primarily, a fact

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Speaker 2: which most of the articles I read about him, like

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Speaker 2: in the Washington Post and stuff just said he was

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Speaker 2: raised by his grandparents.

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Speaker 3: And I was like, but he had a mom, Where'd

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Speaker 3: she go? So I had to go digging and I

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Speaker 3: found an.

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Speaker 2: Old Parade magazine article from nineteen eighty three by Ovid Demaris,

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Speaker 2: And this is what that article says. His mother, a

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Speaker 2: pilot with the Women's Air Force Service Pilots, would later

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Speaker 2: marry a master sergeant and remain with the occupation forces

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Speaker 2: in Germany after the war.

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Speaker 3: That's all they say she has left.

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Speaker 2: She has just like I'm starting a new family. I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: your dad's dead. This is kind of a wash. Graham's

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Speaker 2: and grandma got to take care of you.

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Speaker 3: I'm gone.

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Speaker 4: They'll do a better job than me, kid, Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, trust me.

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Speaker 2: I intend to make that true. So yeah, aside from

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Speaker 2: being abandoned, Bo had what you might call a normal

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Speaker 2: life for a white boy in Oklahoma in the post

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Speaker 2: war period. He was in the Boy Scouts, he was

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Speaker 2: in the Explorer Scouts. He did all the different scouting

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Speaker 2: things you can do. But he also had significant behavioral issues.

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Speaker 2: We don't know exactly why, but Bo was expelled from

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Speaker 2: high school. It may have had something to do with

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Speaker 2: what we might classify as compulsive law breaking. The Post

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Speaker 2: called him a self styled juvenile prankster, which is a

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Speaker 2: term that people who grow up to be law and

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Speaker 2: order conservatives used to describe the crimes they committed as kids,

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Speaker 2: so that they're different from hoodlums. Right, you're at a

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Speaker 2: hooklim you're yeah, you're precociously stealing people's.

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Speaker 3: Cars or whatever. Right, yeah. Nice. He also claims to.

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Speaker 4: It must be nice to be to get to be precocious.

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Speaker 2: Hey lucky, Yeah, so Bos toole cars and motorcycles. Precociousious. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's just an excitable boy. Since you were listening to

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Speaker 2: some war and Zevon on the way in, there we go.

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Speaker 2: He threw fireworks in school to disrupt evincent assemblies that

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Speaker 2: one does sound fun.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: He describes himself from this time as right out of

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Speaker 2: American graffiti and a tough guy. He also claims to

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Speaker 2: have run with gangs, although as best as I can

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Speaker 2: tell from the context, he means gangs in the sense

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Speaker 2: that like he and his friends committed petty crimes, not

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Speaker 2: that he was in like an organized criminal organization.

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Speaker 3: Bruh, No, you didn't know. You and your friends drunkenly

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Speaker 3: stolen motorcycles.

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Speaker 4: Yea eat in Oklahoma, sir? Tell me what turf you Yeah?

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Speaker 3: You ran the one stop sign? Yes. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So once he was kicked out of high school, his

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Speaker 2: caregiver sent him to Fork Union Military Academy in Virginia. Hilariously,

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Speaker 2: in early interviews like the one with Parade Magazine, he

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Speaker 2: told reporters that he chose to attend military school instead

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Speaker 2: of going to high school.

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Speaker 3: This is not true.

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Speaker 4: I don't know why you would do that, because I'm like,

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Speaker 4: I feel like it fits the mystique of like, you know.

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Speaker 3: Like a militia guy. I got kicked out sent to military.

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Speaker 4: Like a little more hardcore, and I chose I wanted

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Speaker 4: to go to military.

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Speaker 3: No, it was like, na, bro, like get kicked out.

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Speaker 3: I thought you ran with a gang.

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Speaker 2: A gang you feel me like, So the academy does

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Speaker 2: kind of turn bow around. He ends his time there

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Speaker 2: as the core Commander during his senior year, which is

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Speaker 2: the child who's in charge of the other children. Basically, yeah, awesome,

289
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Speaker 2: good idea. Depending on the interview, Bo claims he was

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Speaker 2: either invited to attend West Point or he passed an

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Speaker 2: entrance exam and was offered admission. I don't think either

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Speaker 2: of these stories are true because West Point doesn't work

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Speaker 2: that way. Applying to West Point isn't at all like

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Speaker 2: applying to a normal university back then, and I think

295
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Speaker 2: things are a little bit different today, but they're mostly

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Speaker 2: that work the same way. You get in because you

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Speaker 2: have to get a nomination from a member of Congress.

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Speaker 2: Right now, you can also be appointed by the president

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Speaker 2: or vice president, but basically everyone who gets into West

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Speaker 2: Point gets nominated by a member of Congress. So for

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Speaker 2: Bou's story to be true, he would have had to

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Speaker 2: write a member of Congress and convince them of his

303
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Speaker 2: worth and then get accepted and then say, nah, actually

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Speaker 2: I don't want free admission to the most prestigious military

305
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Speaker 2: university and a guaranteed fast track in my career as

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Speaker 2: an officer.

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Speaker 3: No, thank you. I think he's just lying about this.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, At any rate, Bo doesn't bum around long after graduation.

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Speaker 2: This is also why I'm sure he's lying, because he

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Speaker 2: immediately joins the military. In nineteen five fifty seven, he

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Speaker 2: walks into an army recruiter's office. He is eighteen. He

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Speaker 2: claims that when he's in there, he sees a poster

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Speaker 2: of a Green Beret on the wall, and the poster read,

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Speaker 2: the Green Berets Special Forces are the world's toughest troopers.

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Speaker 2: Now that doesn't sound true none, it cannot in no way, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: it can't be true. So the Green Berets were founded

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Speaker 2: in nineteen fifty two is US Army Special Forces. By

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Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven, some of these guys had started wearing

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Speaker 2: green berets in order to differentiate themselves from normal soldiers.

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Speaker 2: But they weren't actually supposed to do that, and sometimes

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Speaker 2: they got in trouble for it, and no official Army

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Speaker 2: recruitment ad would have called the unit the Green Berets

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Speaker 2: because they weren't called that yet.

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Speaker 5: Now it's a good thing we didn't make lying part

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Speaker 5: of the drinking.

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Speaker 3: No, no, no again.

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Speaker 2: Legally, we can't kill the audience yet again, to give

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Speaker 2: two more years of legislation.

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Speaker 3: I think we'll have that right.

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Speaker 2: But so, US Army Special Forces were founded as part

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Speaker 2: of a general recognition brought on by certain events in

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Speaker 2: World War Two that the nature of conflict was changing.

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Speaker 2: Military history has always had elite units who carried out

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Speaker 2: special operations behind the lines, or you could look at

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Speaker 2: like the Greek soldiers in the Trojan Horses like an

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Speaker 2: early reference to special forces kind of activity. And World

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Speaker 2: War II featured commando units on both sides that carried

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Speaker 2: out high profile clandestine operations. So the US Special Forces

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Speaker 2: began as an attempt to systematize the training and deployment

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Speaker 2: of such commando teams for the first time. The idea

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Speaker 2: initially with these guys was that they would They're not

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Speaker 2: like Navy seals are today, right. The idea with the

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Speaker 2: special Forces that become Green Berets is that they would

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Speaker 2: be stay behind guerrilla units and the event of a

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Speaker 2: hot war with the Soviet Union. At that point in time,

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Speaker 2: the discrepancy conventional forces in Europe. The Soviets had a

347
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Speaker 2: shitload of tanks. Yeah, NATO had somewhat less tanks, meant

348
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Speaker 2: that everyone's best assumption was that Soviet forces would steamroll

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Speaker 2: through large portions of Western Europe before there could be

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Speaker 2: any hope of NATO stopping them, And thus you wanted

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Speaker 2: to have a bunch of Special Forces guys behind the

352
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Speaker 2: line to train resistance cells, organize and execute attacks to

353
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Speaker 2: just rough the enemy's rear.

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Speaker 3: Right, that's the idea with which.

355
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Speaker 4: These were found mixes post World War Two.

356
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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, we're talking the fifties fifty seven as well. Yeah,

357
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Speaker 3: I don't know.

358
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Speaker 4: Yeah, unless you're like a history nerd, I don't I

359
00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 4: don't think we and in our era appreciate just how

360
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Speaker 4: badass like Russia was. Oh yes, I mean like they

361
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:42,600
Speaker 4: was a mass kick.

362
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Speaker 3: They had a lot of tanks at the end in

363
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Speaker 3: that war. There was some mass kickers. Yeah.

364
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Speaker 2: So in nineteen fifty seven, when bo first claims to

365
00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,399
Speaker 2: have seen that poster, he definitely didn't see. That was

366
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Speaker 2: the first year that Green Berets were deployed to Vietnam.

367
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Speaker 2: So again there wasn't like anything to brag about them

368
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,200
Speaker 2: doing yet, Like they have a reputation now for doing

369
00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:04,880
Speaker 2: all sorts of crazy shit. But they had just started

370
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,960
Speaker 2: going to Vietnam, which I think was their first official

371
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:10,920
Speaker 2: combat deployment. If you've ever heard that US involvement in

372
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Speaker 2: Vietnam started with US advisors going over to train the

373
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Speaker 2: South Vietnamese Army. That's at least like a big chunk

374
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Speaker 2: of what they're talking about are what becomes the Green Berets.

375
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Speaker 2: So Bow's version of the story, which definitely isn't true,

376
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Speaker 2: is that he asks the army recruiter.

377
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Speaker 3: What did the Green Berets do, and that guy answers.

378
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,240
Speaker 2: They go out in the woods, live off bark and lizards,

379
00:20:30,359 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 2: snoop around, blow up bridges and garrett people. They live

380
00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:40,720
Speaker 2: in huts, and bo immediately responds, that's for me again,

381
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:46,280
Speaker 2: They've only ever been deployed before Vietnam to Europe. They're

382
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:50,920
Speaker 2: not eating lizards in fucking Italy. Like, I'm sorry, that's

383
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:53,399
Speaker 2: not what They weren't famous for anything at this point

384
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,960
Speaker 2: of time, certainly not this. I kind of out he

385
00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,640
Speaker 2: was thinking at all about the Green Berets when he enlisted.

386
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,600
Speaker 2: The unit didn't even officially start wearing Green Berets until

387
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 2: nineteen sixty one, when President Kennedy made it a part

388
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 2: of their uniform in nineteen fifty seven, US Special Forces

389
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:12,560
Speaker 2: hadn't really done anything special yet their first Oh yeah,

390
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,280
Speaker 2: I already said that. Anyway, That interview with Parade goes

391
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:18,679
Speaker 2: on quote. Although they only accepted sergeants and above, Bo

392
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:22,200
Speaker 2: was admitted contingent on his passing all the schools. These

393
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:26,800
Speaker 2: included regular basic training, Advanced individual training, parachute and special

394
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,399
Speaker 2: Forces courses that teach unconventional warfare. And again, I mean

395
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 2: that's true about the things you have to do to

396
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,040
Speaker 2: be a Green Beret. But I don't think Bow entered

397
00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 2: with any special deal because he doesn't. He has a

398
00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:41,159
Speaker 2: normal military career for years before he gets into the

399
00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,520
Speaker 2: Green Berets, and in fact he gets this is wild

400
00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,199
Speaker 2: court martialed twice in basic training.

401
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 4: See yeah, I was going to say twice twice. I

402
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,640
Speaker 4: was going to say he was thinking what most recruits think,

403
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 4: which is poverty.

404
00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,919
Speaker 2: Like I want some money or all pay for school.

405
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,760
Speaker 4: You gonna give me somewhere to live. Basically, you're gonna

406
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:04,760
Speaker 4: give me socialism.

407
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:05,080
Speaker 3: I don't.

408
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:08,160
Speaker 4: I'm gonna go into the army. You're gonna give me socialism.

409
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:13,639
Speaker 2: Yeah, I certainly don't think he was planning on eating lizards. Yeah,

410
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,960
Speaker 2: so uh yeah, he doesn't. He gets court martial twice

411
00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:20,000
Speaker 2: in basic training. I wish I knew what for. I

412
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: just don't have that information.

413
00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 5: After because he was trying to start a gang, because

414
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,040
Speaker 5: he's just like he might have.

415
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:33,800
Speaker 3: Been horse stealing, stealing chick start a gang after what

416
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 3: I mean?

417
00:22:35,320 --> 00:22:40,240
Speaker 2: Ironically, US special Forces today off and operate exactly like

418
00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:43,840
Speaker 2: running illegal drugs and murdering other Special Forces guys who

419
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 2: find them running illegal drugs. Who knew that, Actually, a

420
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,920
Speaker 2: Green Beret got murdered buy some Navy seals a couple

421
00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,720
Speaker 2: of years ago as a result of a bunch of

422
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:53,200
Speaker 2: drug shit.

423
00:22:53,760 --> 00:22:56,760
Speaker 3: Fun story anyway, merrit, we'll talk about that.

424
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:01,800
Speaker 2: After basic training, bo is recommended to go to Officer

425
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 2: Candidate school, and this is interesting.

426
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 3: I don't know why he got picked out.

427
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:08,960
Speaker 2: It's fairly rare for that to happen because he didn't

428
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:10,320
Speaker 2: have any college experience.

429
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 3: But he passes.

430
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,960
Speaker 2: He gets commissioned as a second lieutenant, and somewhere around

431
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,679
Speaker 2: this time, also in nineteen fifty seven, he marries his

432
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 2: first wife, Dolores Benediti, and while he was starting his

433
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,320
Speaker 2: military career, the couple has two children. They're not really

434
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 2: that important to talk about because he is going to

435
00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:29,919
Speaker 2: abandon them at the first possible is that this is

436
00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,440
Speaker 2: a last family abandoner. I'm sorry you hear a man's

437
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:35,720
Speaker 2: name is Bogue Rights. The first thing you know is

438
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,919
Speaker 2: that that man has abandoned at least one family.

439
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,639
Speaker 5: Yeah, like his mom, like his mom.

440
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, generational day.

441
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,919
Speaker 3: I learned it from you, Ma, you.

442
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:51,600
Speaker 5: Generational Trump.

443
00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: That's his smoking pot is abandoning his family.

444
00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:58,960
Speaker 5: Exactly past down from general.

445
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,840
Speaker 4: I'll get that reference though, from watching No, No, Yeah, yeah,

446
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:02,479
Speaker 4: I don't get there.

447
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: Oh those were anti drug ads from back in the day.

448
00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:10,280
Speaker 2: So after OCS, Bow goes to Ranger School and he

449
00:24:10,320 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 2: does well enough in Ranger School that he gets promoted

450
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,119
Speaker 2: steadily throughout the early nineteen sixties, reaching the rank of

451
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:20,040
Speaker 2: captain by nineteen sixty three. In nineteen sixty five, he

452
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,480
Speaker 2: joins the Green Berets. So again he claims in fifty seven,

453
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 2: I knew what I wanted to be. I think the

454
00:24:25,119 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: reality is his career just went along and eventually this

455
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:30,000
Speaker 2: became an option for him, and whatever whatever reason he

456
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,200
Speaker 2: decided to lie about that later he gets deployed to

457
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,600
Speaker 2: Vietnam in nineteen sixty five, and he recalls being excited

458
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:40,360
Speaker 2: for the opportunity to quote go out and hit something.

459
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,920
Speaker 4: Other than his own eye, right, other than his.

460
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 2: Own eye with a bb Yeah, hit is interesting, like

461
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,600
Speaker 2: not shoot like so you and he actually he does

462
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:53,040
Speaker 2: hit people to death, so I know he knew what

463
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:56,720
Speaker 2: he wanted. Bo was not among the very first Green

464
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:58,840
Speaker 2: Berets deployed to the country, but by the time he

465
00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:01,439
Speaker 2: got over there, the mission that the US was involved

466
00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: in had expanded beyond training the South Vietnamese Army to

467
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:06,880
Speaker 2: I mean a bunch of shit. But the Green Berets

468
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:10,720
Speaker 2: were operating mobile gorilla forces of different local fighters in

469
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: dark zones of Vietnam and the surrounding countries where US

470
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 2: forces were not.

471
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:16,119
Speaker 3: Supposed to be.

472
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 2: Right, A lot of these guys wind up in Lao.

473
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 2: They're not supposed to be in Lao, but they they're there.

474
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,760
Speaker 2: So he splits up with his wife somewhere around this point,

475
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: and he hooks up with a woman that he describes

476
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 2: most often in interviews as quote an ethnic Chinese former prostitute.

477
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:36,479
Speaker 3: Those words.

478
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 4: This man I figured out as soon as you say

479
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 4: a first wife. I was like, uh huh. That man

480
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 4: went down to the Jung. Yeah, and he was like, yo,

481
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,919
Speaker 4: they come like this, like yeah.

482
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: He's always really specific about the ethnic Chinese part. I

483
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 2: think just because he didn't want anyone to think he

484
00:25:53,359 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 2: had married a Vietnamese woman like that was very important

485
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,600
Speaker 2: to Bow for reasons that I probably don't need to

486
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:02,040
Speaker 2: get into. Also, I'm guessing she wasn't a former prostitute

487
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 2: when they met. That's just my theory here, But given

488
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:10,800
Speaker 2: that he's a soldier in Vietnam in nineteen sixty five.

489
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 5: But at least he was supporting sex workers.

490
00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 3: He was yeah, oh yeah, we stand, we stand stand. Yeah.

491
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 4: Listen, man, there's always some sort of redeeming qualities there.

492
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,480
Speaker 3: You go. There, you go, low bar for this one. O,

493
00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 3: we are low bar, low bar for Bo. Yeah, this

494
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:29,119
Speaker 3: will be Yeah.

495
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 2: So one thing you got to give Bo other than

496
00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 2: that is that he was very good at being a

497
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 2: Green Beret.

498
00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 3: He's, in fact, one of the best to ever do it.

499
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,320
Speaker 2: He claims to be the most highly decorated Green Beret

500
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,640
Speaker 2: commander of the entire war, and this is probably true.

501
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 2: He ultimately received more than sixty citations for valor, including

502
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 2: both Silver and Bronze stars. Bose descriptions of his time

503
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 2: in Vietnam are harrowing reading. At one point, a Vietcong

504
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,040
Speaker 2: fighter rises up out of a tunnel and tries to

505
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 2: shoot him at point blank, reigns and Greis only survives

506
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:04,560
Speaker 2: because the ammunition in the man's weapon was bad and

507
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 2: failed to fire. One of the stories we get of

508
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 2: Bo comes from General William west Moreland's memoirs, And if

509
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 2: you know west Moreland, he was like, he's if you've

510
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,200
Speaker 2: gotta blame Vietnam on a military leader in the US,

511
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 2: wes Moreland's the guy you blame, right. I think there's

512
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 2: a couple of guys ahead of him, like LBJ and whatnot.

513
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,200
Speaker 2: But west Moreland is responsible for a lot of why

514
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 2: Vietnam is the fucking nightmare that it is, right, and

515
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: it says a lot about both Bo and west Moreland

516
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 2: that west Moreland like signaled like singles bow out as

517
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 2: like an example of this guy was one of our best.

518
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,640
Speaker 2: This is like one of the absolute like the dudes

519
00:27:40,680 --> 00:27:42,120
Speaker 2: who was really doing it right.

520
00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 3: And again maybe that's why we lost the war. I

521
00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:45,399
Speaker 3: don't know.

522
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,880
Speaker 2: So west Moreland writes in detail about one of Bo's missions,

523
00:27:51,880 --> 00:27:54,320
Speaker 2: which is this US spy plane has crashed in the

524
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 2: Cambodian jungle right now. Writing for the Washington Post, Art

525
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,280
Speaker 2: Harris summarizes Washington was desperate to retrieve the black box,

526
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,800
Speaker 2: containing top secret codes. It had failed to self destruct.

527
00:28:05,920 --> 00:28:08,639
Speaker 2: If it got into VC hands, Moscow might be the

528
00:28:08,680 --> 00:28:11,800
Speaker 2: next step. There was only one hang up. Nobody knew

529
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:15,080
Speaker 2: exactly where the plane was. Choppers dropped off Grits and

530
00:28:15,119 --> 00:28:17,479
Speaker 2: his team, and they fanned out on foot, hacking their

531
00:28:17,520 --> 00:28:20,720
Speaker 2: way through vines, snaking along elephant trails, setting booby traps

532
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: to protect their rear, ambushing and getting ambushed. On the

533
00:28:23,840 --> 00:28:26,919
Speaker 2: fourth day out, around Christmas of nineteen sixty six, they

534
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,200
Speaker 2: stumbled on the utube wreckage. The black box was gone.

535
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 2: VC sandal tracks led off into the bush. He set

536
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: up an ambush, kill every man except the first two.

537
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,960
Speaker 2: He ordered Grits in another sergeant would take care of

538
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 2: them and hand to hand with zappers. Or CIA issue

539
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: spring steel billy clubs.

540
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 4: Now, how that actually would kind of sounds epic.

541
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,960
Speaker 2: Look, it's a good scene in a movie that I

542
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 2: have some questions. First off, why did the CIA have

543
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 2: to issue them billy clubs? Why did the CIA need

544
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 2: to make clubs to hit people with? I mean, I'm

545
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,560
Speaker 2: not questioning, like, why would the CIA what people beaten

546
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:09,760
Speaker 2: to death? I'm questioning why did they have to make

547
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 2: the Like I feel like I could make a steal.

548
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 3: You can.

549
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 4: You're in the jungle, you can make whatever you want.

550
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,000
Speaker 5: I have question, why is your chair backwards?

551
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,320
Speaker 3: I'm rikering, Sophie, thank you.

552
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's give it up, Commander William Rager. Come on,

553
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: there we go, There we go.

554
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:30,840
Speaker 3: You're really.

555
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 4: So, you're really quick with that answer. I get super impressive.

556
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 5: We've been doing this a long time.

557
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like my back tattoo says a br baby,

558
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 2: always be riker around.

559
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:50,480
Speaker 5: So Jesus Christ.

560
00:29:49,720 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 3: Trying to get out.

561
00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, okay, mmm.

562
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 2: So other questions I have why were they called sappers?

563
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: They're just clubs to hit people with. Also, so did

564
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 2: the Special Forces need the CIA to give him the

565
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,440
Speaker 2: idea to beat men with metal clubs? These are the

566
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:09,960
Speaker 2: questions that keep me up at night. Anyway, that patrol

567
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 2: shows up and Bo's men shoot them to pieces. Grits

568
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 2: rushes his target and hits him, but he kills him immediately.

569
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,040
Speaker 3: He just kills the guy with a club.

570
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: There is a prisoner that they've taken, but he's defiant,

571
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: and so he had to be executed. And here's where

572
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 2: you can drink your first war crime drink, because you

573
00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 2: are not supposed to execute prisoners.

574
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:30,959
Speaker 3: Because they're defiant.

575
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:35,239
Speaker 2: Defiant, yes, pissed that you killed his friends and captured him.

576
00:30:35,360 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 3: That's pretty natural.

577
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 4: You all.

578
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:42,840
Speaker 2: Now get ready for another war crimes drink. Because Grits

579
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 2: was forced that they both the guys they tried to take.

580
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 3: A live they have now killed.

581
00:30:48,040 --> 00:30:51,160
Speaker 2: But one of the wounded Vieticle, one of the Viet

582
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: Cong fighters that they had thought they'd killed, was just wounded, right,

583
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 2: And so they decided to convince this guy to help them.

584
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,320
Speaker 2: And they do that by they show him. They use

585
00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:01,480
Speaker 2: a mirror to show him the shrapnel embedded in the

586
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 2: back of his skull, and they're like, hey, man, you

587
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:06,160
Speaker 2: need medical attention right away, and we can't give it

588
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:07,400
Speaker 2: to you unless you help us out.

589
00:31:07,560 --> 00:31:09,400
Speaker 3: So if you don't help us, you're dead, right.

590
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:12,560
Speaker 2: So this guy agrees to lead them to the base

591
00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:14,960
Speaker 2: where the black Box had been taken, and to make

592
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,600
Speaker 2: sure that he abided by the terms of the deal,

593
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,840
Speaker 2: bo attaches C four to the prisoner's neck and uses

594
00:31:20,880 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 2: a detonation and uses a detonation cord as a leash

595
00:31:25,160 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: to walk him around.

596
00:31:26,680 --> 00:31:28,240
Speaker 3: Let's have another war crime drinking.

597
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 2: Yeah that's your Wow again, you're not supposed to do this.

598
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 3: One of my questions.

599
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 4: As soon as he said kill everybody but two of them,

600
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 4: I was like, okay, so how do you know which two?

601
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 4: Because you might have killed the one that was ready

602
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 4: to snitch, you know what I'm saying. But you don't

603
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:48,840
Speaker 4: know that if you just walk just to be like,

604
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:50,760
Speaker 4: I'm just gonna pick the two, you know what I'm saying.

605
00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 2: Part of Green Beret training is learning like what guy

606
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,280
Speaker 2: looks like he's best talking, don't shoot him as much?

607
00:31:56,320 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 4: Which one of y'all looked like snitches?

608
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:00,840
Speaker 2: Just cret made that guy alone a little bit. He

609
00:32:00,880 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: looks like he's got a talking mouth.

610
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, so.

611
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:09,360
Speaker 4: Helme. You got somebody back home you love? Okay, cool,

612
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 4: keep him alive.

613
00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 3: Looks like he's got a family. You got a family.

614
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 4: You finished snitch, You don't know nobody you can kill him.

615
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,600
Speaker 2: So again, several war crimes down here. But the mission

616
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 2: is successful.

617
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 4: I'm sorry, I know stuff like that.

618
00:32:27,600 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 3: I'm sorry anyway.

619
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,080
Speaker 2: Go ahead, So the mission succeeds, which is why West

620
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: Moreland writes proudly about it in his memoir. Even though

621
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,479
Speaker 2: I might be like, maybe maybe you don't highlight all

622
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:37,520
Speaker 2: the war crimes. I don't know if i'm if I'm

623
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:40,840
Speaker 2: if I'm given notes, right, which I'm not. So the

624
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 2: whole thing highlights an important fact, right, which is that

625
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 2: modern American worship of Special Forces operators.

626
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 3: Begins as a distraction. Right.

627
00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:51,720
Speaker 2: That's why west Moreland is talking about this to vote

628
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: so much time to it, and that's why Bo is

629
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:56,040
Speaker 2: going to get That's why the Rambo movies are such

630
00:32:56,040 --> 00:33:00,800
Speaker 2: a big deal, right, is because after Vietnam, the US

631
00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:02,840
Speaker 2: Americans are pretty clear, oh, we're not getting into good

632
00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 2: wars anymore, like that one time, like that was that

633
00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: was pretty fun, and it seems like a lot less

634
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:09,320
Speaker 2: fun these days.

635
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 3: But we have these.

636
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,160
Speaker 2: Guys who are really well trained to do all this

637
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,560
Speaker 2: cool stuff, and they look awesome and like they can

638
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 2: do really impressive things. They're not winning US wars like

639
00:33:19,280 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: him finding this black box in Vietnam, Like the war

640
00:33:22,640 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 2: still didn't go very well.

641
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 3: It was, it was also very pretty.

642
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 4: The last one we had was a pretty clear, like

643
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 4: good versus evil type vibe.

644
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,920
Speaker 3: Right, The whole world War two, you're not doing that

645
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,360
Speaker 3: anymore this one. You like, why why is we Derek yet?

646
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 3: So the wars.

647
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:43,320
Speaker 2: And we're not winning, so people are like so that

648
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: it becomes a lot easier, like, well, let's celebrate how

649
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,160
Speaker 2: cool these guys are, right in lieu of celebrating, you know,

650
00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,240
Speaker 2: the good cause that we're doing, or like the fact

651
00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,160
Speaker 2: that the war has gone very well, you know. And

652
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:55,840
Speaker 2: so BO was kind of at the very first wave

653
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,840
Speaker 2: of special forces obsession in the United States, which is

654
00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 2: something that has really like come to a head during

655
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,400
Speaker 2: the Global War on Terror. Right, if you look at

656
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,400
Speaker 2: like movies set in that period of time, they're a

657
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 2: lot likely to focus on like a special Forces unit

658
00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:11,960
Speaker 2: because you can have them do some kind of rad,

659
00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:15,160
Speaker 2: cool looking mission and sort of ignore that like, well

660
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 2: everything else was a lot messier, it didn't work quite

661
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: as well.

662
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 3: Also Zero Dark thirty.

663
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:24,239
Speaker 4: Hey, yeah, there's also like a I don't want to

664
00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:26,120
Speaker 4: belabor this point too too long, but I think that

665
00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 4: there's a good way as like as far as like

666
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,440
Speaker 4: some of the science I use for like social commentary

667
00:34:30,640 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 4: or or even you know, when I did teach high

668
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 4: school was like you always know what's going on if

669
00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:38,160
Speaker 4: you want to understand what was going on in a

670
00:34:38,200 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 4: time period, just look at who the villain was in

671
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:40,760
Speaker 4: a movie.

672
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:41,799
Speaker 3: You know what I'm saying.

673
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:44,600
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, and like this and so right now, like

674
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,200
Speaker 4: every show streaming show, every action movie. Right now, what's

675
00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,880
Speaker 4: the villain a tech billionaire?

676
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 1: Yah?

677
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, you know what I'm saying, right right, you

678
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 4: know what I'm saying. But before that, you know, during

679
00:34:55,880 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 4: during YEA, it was like some terror some sort of

680
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 4: Middle Eastern terrorists, you know what I'm saying. So, like

681
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 4: you always know what's going on in the world.

682
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 2: You had a lot of late nineties right before nine

683
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:08,240
Speaker 2: to eleven, a lot of like militia guys. Yeah after Okay,

684
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:17,640
Speaker 2: So anyway, I'm bringing up the Special Forces stuff just

685
00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 2: to just kind of set the zeitgeist right, which is

686
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 2: that a merit Bo is going to really benefit personally

687
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,359
Speaker 2: in his celebrity from the idea that Americans have kind

688
00:35:25,360 --> 00:35:27,440
Speaker 2: of switched gears to, like, so what if we don't

689
00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 2: win wars anymore?

690
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,800
Speaker 3: We look really cool while we're losing, you know. Ah hah.

691
00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:37,000
Speaker 2: So Bo himself later stated of his time in Vietnam,

692
00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:39,600
Speaker 2: we got paid for bringing him back dead or alive.

693
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:43,800
Speaker 2: We laid minds like sowing seeds. Among my greatest satisfactions

694
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 2: in life other than sex, was hearing the boom in

695
00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 2: the night I turn over in my hands after a

696
00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: home and chuckle got another one.

697
00:35:52,120 --> 00:35:56,200
Speaker 3: Bully, I'm glad you let us know that. You know

698
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,680
Speaker 3: that's a bar bow. Thanks bo.

699
00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:03,560
Speaker 5: So when I make the joke that men used to

700
00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 5: go to war, I didn't mean this.

701
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:11,839
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, unfortunately, Sophie, we've always been this.

702
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 3: That's oh yeah, I'm sorry. I mean.

703
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 2: Look, would I set land mines if I had land

704
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:19,719
Speaker 2: mines and the legal bit?

705
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 3: Sure of course. Who wouldn't want a couple of landmines?

706
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,520
Speaker 2: You know, listen, keep the raccoons out of your yard, right, oh,

707
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 2: keep the chickens out.

708
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:32,120
Speaker 3: Of your yard. Keep the dogs, keep yourself out of

709
00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:32,600
Speaker 3: your yard.

710
00:36:32,719 --> 00:36:35,360
Speaker 5: You know, I draw the line at the dogs.

711
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,480
Speaker 3: Look. The great thing about land minds is they don't discriminate.

712
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,759
Speaker 4: And the thing is what you would only need just

713
00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 4: one dog after that, the rest of dogs are smart.

714
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,760
Speaker 3: The rest of them would know see yeah. Yeah.

715
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,400
Speaker 2: This has been a paid sponsorship for the Coalition for

716
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: Civilian Landmine Ownership. You can find a donation bent up

717
00:36:57,440 --> 00:36:59,720
Speaker 2: at the front also stayed and new of your dogs,

718
00:37:00,160 --> 00:37:02,280
Speaker 2: span new to your ducks, or let the landmine?

719
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:06,600
Speaker 7: Do you know? So?

720
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,560
Speaker 4: We got so many more pages, you're going.

721
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,439
Speaker 2: The US pulls out of Vietnam in nineteen seventy three,

722
00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:27,600
Speaker 2: and Bo transitions to commanding.

723
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 3: All US sporses all US sporsches. Bo transitions to commanding

724
00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 3: all US.

725
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:35,319
Speaker 2: Special Forces in Latin America, a job he held from

726
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five to nineteen seventy seven. And that's not

727
00:37:38,719 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: like quite the peak of US War crimes in Latin America,

728
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 2: but it's not at like the low point, like it's

729
00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 2: like the upper third of the US War crimes in

730
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:48,880
Speaker 2: Latin America periods.

731
00:37:48,920 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 3: I think we can say, so maybe take a drink there.

732
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 4: We'll just assume, right, this is also classic some fuckery

733
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 4: in Costa Rica salor On.

734
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: Yeah, he retired.

735
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,759
Speaker 2: He retires in nineteen seventy nine, although that was not

736
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:09,320
Speaker 2: quite the end of his time working for the US government.

737
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 2: And this is a rare case where BO is telling

738
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,160
Speaker 2: the truth and someone else is lying because the US

739
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 2: government says that was the end of him working for US,

740
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:19,200
Speaker 2: and BO says, no.

741
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:19,680
Speaker 3: It wasn't.

742
00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,840
Speaker 2: Because after the USSR invaded Afghanistan. At the end of

743
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy nine, the State Department hired Bo to help

744
00:38:27,239 --> 00:38:31,520
Speaker 2: train the muja Hadeen. They flew Afghan fighters to Sandy Is.

745
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:35,720
Speaker 4: Too close, man Like, it's too close.

746
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,879
Speaker 2: They flew Afghan fighters to Sandy Valley, Nevada, well, where

747
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 2: Bo taught them to use armor piercing ammunition against Soviet

748
00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 2: vehicles carrying VIPs.

749
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 3: Wait wait, wait, wait wait wait wait.

750
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 4: If I'm getting if I'm from Afghanistan, you better not

751
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:59,279
Speaker 4: fly me to Nevada.

752
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,440
Speaker 2: Oh, there has to have been one night where Bo

753
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 2: and the Mujahideen all hit Fremont Street right one night

754
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:08,000
Speaker 2: where they're.

755
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:14,400
Speaker 3: At the fire. Let it be like this, lull like home.

756
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 5: This.

757
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

758
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 2: So the US government denies that this happened, but Bo

759
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: has footage of himself training a bunch of Afghan guys.

760
00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: They're setting off explosives in the desert. So I'm gonna

761
00:39:29,160 --> 00:39:31,160
Speaker 2: go with the governments lying here.

762
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,760
Speaker 5: Like would never lie.

763
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, Oh, Sophie, I have some bad news.

764
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,320
Speaker 3: We'll talk about that behind stage.

765
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 2: So decades later, for a twenty twenty one Mystery Wire interview,

766
00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 2: Bo would insist that the specific men he trained were

767
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:53,360
Speaker 2: among the very last holdouts resisting Taliban control after the

768
00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,080
Speaker 2: Taliban you know one and stuff. Uh, And there's no

769
00:39:57,120 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 2: way for me to know if that's true. I don't

770
00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:01,320
Speaker 2: think he knows. I'm I think he kept tracking names.

771
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,839
Speaker 2: I don't you certainly not emailing with hey, you still

772
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:06,279
Speaker 2: doing okay up there? I think he just needed to

773
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,400
Speaker 2: tell himself that, or wanted to tell the news that

774
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 2: to sound cool.

775
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:09,520
Speaker 3: Anyway.

776
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,520
Speaker 2: Another thing Bow needed to tell himself was that the

777
00:40:12,719 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 2: US government had left behind a huge number of his

778
00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,720
Speaker 2: comrades in Vietnam. He would later claim, without any evidence

779
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,600
Speaker 2: that I've seen that he was tasked by the DA,

780
00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 2: the Defense Intelligence Agency, with searching for POW's left behind

781
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 2: after the withdrawal of US forces. Now, if you've driven

782
00:40:31,120 --> 00:40:33,839
Speaker 2: past a VA hall or a post office or some

783
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 2: other government building, or just a shitload of rural homes,

784
00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: you've probably seen at some point under a US flag,

785
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,320
Speaker 2: a weird black flag with a silhouette of a dude's

786
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 2: face in front of a guard tower and the words

787
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: Pow slash mi Ia.

788
00:40:46,920 --> 00:40:50,600
Speaker 3: You are not forgotten on it, right, most people you see,

789
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 3: you're aware of these stuff. We're about to talk about.

790
00:40:52,200 --> 00:40:54,920
Speaker 2: Where this fucking flag comes from right, because this is

791
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 2: our most conspiratorial flag in the United States.

792
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: If that is a silhouette of bow it is on

793
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 3: his table over, there's a funny story for who that is.

794
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:07,120
Speaker 4: I'm not getting all your drinks out of your hand.

795
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 3: If it's bone. No.

796
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,960
Speaker 2: So the idea behind this flag is that there's a

797
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,080
Speaker 2: and to this day, the people who fly it tend

798
00:41:18,080 --> 00:41:20,839
Speaker 2: to believe that there's a shitload of US servicemen still

799
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 2: being held captive somewhere right where is less.

800
00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:26,040
Speaker 3: They'd be like eighty now if.

801
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:30,440
Speaker 2: They were from the Vietnam War. Right, This is not true,

802
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,600
Speaker 2: and it wasn't true by the late nineteen seventies. Right,

803
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,239
Speaker 2: But belief in this conspiracy theory thought we'd left a

804
00:41:37,239 --> 00:41:39,440
Speaker 2: bunch of guys behind and they were still in camps

805
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:42,400
Speaker 2: in Vietnam, and we gotta go rescue him. That became

806
00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 2: a widespread conspiratorial belief, largely due to Bogue rights.

807
00:41:46,719 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 3: He is a hue.

808
00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,640
Speaker 2: He's not the only one, but he is a major

809
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,880
Speaker 2: major reason for that. Now, the flag itself that I

810
00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:55,960
Speaker 2: just described was designed by a guy named Jeff Heisley

811
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,840
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy. And when Jeff designs the flag. To

812
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: be fair to Jeff, were a bunch of US POWs

813
00:42:01,440 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 2: in North Vietnam. We were still fighting a war, right,

814
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 2: of course there were bows. That's how war works. The

815
00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: silhouette was based on a real guy, his son, who

816
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 2: was twenty two years old at the time and not

817
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:13,280
Speaker 2: a soldier.

818
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:19,320
Speaker 3: Dude. Now, he had tried to be a soldier, Jerry, Jeff,

819
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 3: this is very funny.

820
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:24,000
Speaker 2: Jeff's son had been an officer candidate school for the

821
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 2: Marine Corps, but he'd had to drop out because he

822
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:33,920
Speaker 2: caught hepatitis. So he was like sick and he lost

823
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:39,240
Speaker 2: like forty pounds, so he was starting was like, hey, buddy,

824
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,720
Speaker 2: get on over here. I think your silouette looks perfect

825
00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:42,200
Speaker 2: for something.

826
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 4: It's big, like, it's pretty, like Michaelangelo, like Jesus statute energy,

827
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:53,840
Speaker 4: it's giving.

828
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 5: Like, and that's all over our country.

829
00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,399
Speaker 2: It's all over now time you see one of those

830
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,120
Speaker 2: flags where they came from.

831
00:43:01,920 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 3: So fucking hepatitis awareness.

832
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: So so Nixon's got elected. We didn't use the terms

833
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,720
Speaker 2: pow slash m I a right. I mean, the pow

834
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: existed as a term, but that was not what the

835
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 2: military used officially. The terms used were KIA, slash B

836
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: and R, which meant killed an action body.

837
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:23,839
Speaker 3: Not recovered, right.

838
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,120
Speaker 2: And this was the term for this is not the

839
00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 2: term for if we knew someone was a pow, you'd

840
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,720
Speaker 2: call them a pow. This was the term for guys

841
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,520
Speaker 2: who disappeared and we don't know that they died, We

842
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,319
Speaker 2: don't know what happened. And most of these guys had

843
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,239
Speaker 2: they'd just been you know, they've been blown up or something.

844
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:40,480
Speaker 2: There was not enough left to do a positive identity.

845
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:43,480
Speaker 2: Some small number probably just like when a wall, like

846
00:43:44,440 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 2: you get a couple of weirdos who like just like,

847
00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:48,440
Speaker 2: there were a couple of guys in Korea who just

848
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 2: like went to North Korea like that kind of stuff

849
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 2: happened every now and then, right, And then some number

850
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:54,360
Speaker 2: of them you assumed were captured and were and this

851
00:43:54,440 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 2: was happening at points in the Vietnam War and were

852
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,080
Speaker 2: being held, right, and the government just was not away

853
00:44:00,160 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 2: of their specific name.

854
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,480
Speaker 3: Right. So that's what we used to call it.

855
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 2: And it's worth emphasizing that prior to nineteen sixty nine,

856
00:44:08,480 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 2: the US government, and specifically the Department of Defense, wanted

857
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,520
Speaker 2: to discourage any talk about US servicemen being imprisoned by

858
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,799
Speaker 2: the enemy. This was not just a Vietnam thing. This

859
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 2: existed beforehand, but it really became heightened in Vietnam. And

860
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:27,719
Speaker 2: so when like the military would tell someone that, like, hey,

861
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 2: your kid or whatever is missing, they would also tell

862
00:44:31,280 --> 00:44:33,600
Speaker 2: them keep quiet about it. They might still be alive.

863
00:44:33,719 --> 00:44:35,720
Speaker 2: Don't tell anybody, right.

864
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 3: Which is kind of a fucked up thing about, like.

865
00:44:39,480 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: What, that's really fucking crazy. Per an article in Time

866
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: by Heath Lee quote, if the women dared to discuss it,

867
00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,960
Speaker 2: their government warned them the men might be badly treated

868
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 2: or even executed. With this heavy burden to Barrat, the

869
00:44:53,200 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 2: women were supposed to go about their daily existence telling

870
00:44:56,200 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 2: no one what they were up against. Supposedly this would

871
00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 2: help bring the men back home safely.

872
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,600
Speaker 3: The policy, yeah, what is the how?

873
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,760
Speaker 2: This policy had been applied to prisoners and missing troops

874
00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 2: in previous wars, and was one President Lyndon B. Johnson

875
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 2: would adhere to. During the Vietnam War, the US government

876
00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:16,120
Speaker 2: tried to use its well worn templative quiet diplomacy to

877
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:20,279
Speaker 2: reason with the North Vietnamese. Now, this is very fucked up,

878
00:45:20,760 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 2: and you might think that it's a good thing that

879
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,560
Speaker 2: the Nixon administration changed course, and like, well, at least

880
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 2: now we're admitting, like these guys are captured or missing, right,

881
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 2: Like that's an improvement over telling their families to lie.

882
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 3: Right. But this is Dick Nixon we're talking about.

883
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:38,680
Speaker 2: And yeah, this change was not made out of compassion.

884
00:45:38,719 --> 00:45:41,000
Speaker 2: It was made for it even more fucked up reason.

885
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 3: As H.

886
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:45,400
Speaker 2: Bruce Franklin outlines in his book Mia myth Making in America,

887
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,279
Speaker 2: which is a great book about this exact subject, the

888
00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:51,880
Speaker 2: Knixon administration changed courses because this was they wanted to

889
00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:55,440
Speaker 2: get Americans to back a disastrous war, right, they wanted

890
00:45:55,640 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 2: to build support for Vietnam, which was fading. And in

891
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 2: May teen sixty nine, Defense Secretary Melvin Laird admitted for

892
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: the first time that some thirteen hundred Americans were MIA,

893
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,040
Speaker 2: and as many as half might be POW's. And this

894
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 2: is when the use of the term really changed. As

895
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:14,399
Speaker 2: Nathan Smith summarized in an article for The Outline, this

896
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,280
Speaker 2: transformed the war from a political issue into a humanitarian one,

897
00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: trading public support for sympathy. It didn't matter why we

898
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:24,040
Speaker 2: were there in the first place. Our boys were there,

899
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:26,200
Speaker 2: and by God, we were going to do anything to

900
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,479
Speaker 2: get our boys home, right, so people, why we're there?

901
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 4: I feel like, Okay, far be it for me to

902
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 4: try to tell the US government how to do their

903
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,960
Speaker 4: branded in marketing cases. I just feel like for you

904
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 4: to tell me in a war I already didn't want

905
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 4: to be in. Now you admitting what we already knew,

906
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:51,640
Speaker 4: which is Earl's son ain't came home yet. Why everybody

907
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 4: else's son came So now you want to admit it,

908
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 4: and you're telling me that's a justification for your I

909
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 4: would be like, my g has sound to me like

910
00:46:58,920 --> 00:46:59,800
Speaker 4: we shouldn't have never.

911
00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 3: Fucked been there. No, no, well be home. I'm sorry.

912
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 3: I know you're angry.

913
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:07,320
Speaker 2: I know you're angry that all these people are dying

914
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: and that we're fighting this war.

915
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 3: But look, we have to keep fighting the war.

916
00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:13,719
Speaker 2: Otherwise the guys that we sent to the war might

917
00:47:13,760 --> 00:47:14,919
Speaker 2: not come home from the war.

918
00:47:17,239 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 3: No damn sinse, there's a lot of logic there.

919
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 4: Don't make no damn sense. I'm just saying, maybe you

920
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 4: should stop fighting the war.

921
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:26,080
Speaker 3: We shouldn't be.

922
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 4: A prisoner of a ward. It ain't happening, sir.

923
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,480
Speaker 3: I bet if we left, they'd give the guys.

924
00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 4: But I bet you if we left anyway, because.

925
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 3: They probably don't want to keep them, look and winning

926
00:47:38,080 --> 00:47:42,200
Speaker 3: them at this point. Yeah.

927
00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:46,319
Speaker 2: So the first group to prove how much money there

928
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,520
Speaker 2: is in this newly created conspiracy theory was a student

929
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 2: organization VIVA or Voices in vital America. One of the

930
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 2: worst acronyms I remember encounter just as a heads up,

931
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:57,200
Speaker 2: just fucking dog show.

932
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:57,960
Speaker 3: Now.

933
00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: VIVA started out selling whole bracelets in the early nineteen

934
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:04,919
Speaker 2: seventies with the names of missing servicemen engraved in them.

935
00:48:05,239 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: Celebrities would buy one to be spotted supporting the troops

936
00:48:08,440 --> 00:48:09,839
Speaker 2: and giving something back.

937
00:48:10,840 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 3: Strong.

938
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,640
Speaker 4: Yes, this strong, right, yes, this strong only pro war?

939
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:16,960
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.

940
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,920
Speaker 2: Now, then the war ended, right, and Vietnam returned the

941
00:48:20,960 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 2: prisoners they had, because you know, why wouldn't why would

942
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:27,520
Speaker 2: they keep these guys past a certain point. You know,

943
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:29,800
Speaker 2: there were negotiations, there were things they wanted. It doesn't

944
00:48:29,800 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 2: happen immediately, but there's a congressional inquiry in nineteen seventy

945
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,680
Speaker 2: six to try and make sure did we.

946
00:48:34,640 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 3: Get everybody there? There's some guys left or not right, So.

947
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,560
Speaker 5: This is nice of them to check, right.

948
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 2: You should double check that did we leave a guy

949
00:48:41,680 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 2: or two behind. It's like looking for your keys after

950
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 2: you set up at the bar, you know. But like

951
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,200
Speaker 2: with seven hundred guys who got shot down for bombing Hanoi.

952
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 4: You know, I'm pretty sure Vietnam would know though. It

953
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,440
Speaker 4: was like, y'all see any white people.

954
00:48:55,160 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 2: Look, do my friends always notice if I lose my

955
00:48:57,360 --> 00:48:58,280
Speaker 2: wallet in their couch?

956
00:48:58,719 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, pilots are a lot like that. Listen.

957
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,840
Speaker 4: I'm just saying, go back into the prison and be like, hello, hey,

958
00:49:07,960 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 4: anybody here I here, ain't nobody here?

959
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:13,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think we're good. I think we're good.

960
00:49:13,560 --> 00:49:16,240
Speaker 4: I don't know after they left here. I'm just saying,

961
00:49:16,280 --> 00:49:16,959
Speaker 4: they not here.

962
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:17,359
Speaker 3: Right.

963
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 2: So there's this inquiry in nineteen seventy six and Congress

964
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 2: concludes we they're all there's not any guys still over there, right,

965
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 2: there's no more US POWs in Southeast Asia. But a

966
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 2: certain number of Americans could not get over their rage

967
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,319
Speaker 2: at losing a war and refuse to accept that the

968
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 2: hundreds of men who were still missing in action were

969
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:38,760
Speaker 2: just dead, right and not being kept in a secret

970
00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,239
Speaker 2: prison camp. And when it comes to like the families, obviously,

971
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:43,960
Speaker 2: I don't blame like someone for like not wanting to

972
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 2: believe their dad's dead or whatever.

973
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,800
Speaker 3: But on a societal level, this is just a delusion.

974
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 3: You know.

975
00:49:50,080 --> 00:49:52,319
Speaker 2: It's an open question as to whether or not bog

976
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:56,239
Speaker 2: Rights ever believed there were hundreds, some said thousands of

977
00:49:56,280 --> 00:49:59,279
Speaker 2: Americans still being held prisoner in Vietnam, or if he

978
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 2: just saw it as fertile soil for a grift. Now

979
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:06,160
Speaker 2: I am inclined to believe the latter explains some of

980
00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,799
Speaker 2: his logic that it's a grift, right, because in the

981
00:50:08,840 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 2: early nineteen eighties he starts traveling around and giving speeches

982
00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:15,120
Speaker 2: about how there's all these guys left over there. We

983
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:18,280
Speaker 2: are my brothers are still behind the line being held

984
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,439
Speaker 2: by the North Vietnamese, and we've got to free them,

985
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 2: right and you know, since the government's not gonna do it,

986
00:50:24,920 --> 00:50:26,640
Speaker 2: you know, they're they're corrupt, they're laid, you know. And

987
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:29,560
Speaker 2: then the cowardly media is convinced everybody keeping troops in

988
00:50:29,640 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 2: Vietnam is a bad idea.

989
00:50:31,239 --> 00:50:32,439
Speaker 3: I'm gonna bring them back.

990
00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,600
Speaker 2: I'm gonna put together a squad, a hard nosed, badass.

991
00:50:38,280 --> 00:50:39,360
Speaker 3: You might say.

992
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:44,919
Speaker 4: So that's the rambo, right, Please connect these dots.

993
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 3: So got it? If you just give me some money.

994
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,200
Speaker 2: I'm totally gonna put together a volunteer force of American

995
00:50:51,400 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 2: veteran commandos and we're going to return to Southeast Asia

996
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:57,879
Speaker 2: and we'll find proof that Americans are still being held

997
00:50:57,920 --> 00:51:00,480
Speaker 2: captive there and that'll force the government to I guess

998
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:01,560
Speaker 2: reinvade Vietnam.

999
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 5: Right, he just wants to commit more worker.

1000
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,880
Speaker 3: He just he just didn't get enough Vietnam.

1001
00:51:08,160 --> 00:51:11,480
Speaker 2: You know, It's it's the again like sometimes you know,

1002
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,480
Speaker 2: you go to the buffet, you don't get enough plates,

1003
00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:14,399
Speaker 2: you know, it's like that.

1004
00:51:14,480 --> 00:51:17,640
Speaker 5: But with I've been with you, you get enough plates, get.

1005
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:20,840
Speaker 2: Enough plates, right, And I would argue the United States

1006
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 2: had more than enough Vietnam.

1007
00:51:22,080 --> 00:51:24,600
Speaker 3: And plenty of plates. Should have cut them off a.

1008
00:51:24,560 --> 00:51:27,080
Speaker 2: While Ben shouldn't shouldn't have even gone into that buffet.

1009
00:51:28,920 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 3: Gold mo, right, don't both starts to Rick gold here?

1010
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 2: Are there?

1011
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,720
Speaker 3: No? No, no, no, no couple.

1012
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:43,839
Speaker 2: Although if you ever want to, I did this when

1013
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 2: I was like twenty two years old and fucking coming

1014
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:50,080
Speaker 2: down from a shitload of acid like you and your

1015
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,680
Speaker 2: equally young equally coming down on acid friends coming into

1016
00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,560
Speaker 2: a Golden Crawl at six in the morning because you

1017
00:51:55,600 --> 00:51:58,839
Speaker 2: haven't slept the night before the looks you get from

1018
00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:03,640
Speaker 2: the Golden Corral, right, Guiler's beautiful, beautiful experience.

1019
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:05,320
Speaker 3: I recommend it to everyone.

1020
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:08,520
Speaker 5: The show is not sponsored by Golden Corral, but maybe

1021
00:52:08,560 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 5: it should be.

1022
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1023
00:52:11,360 --> 00:52:14,520
Speaker 2: So Bo starts touring the country. He starts guesting on

1024
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 2: different TV shows. He starts speaking at churches and at

1025
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:18,759
Speaker 2: veterans organizations.

1026
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:19,800
Speaker 3: He starts taking donators.

1027
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 5: Wh should we let them do this?

1028
00:52:21,400 --> 00:52:22,839
Speaker 3: How did he stop him?

1029
00:52:24,680 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 7: Thoughous He's a famous, he's one of he's a great

1030
00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 7: parade and it's it sells right on TV, the like

1031
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:36,440
Speaker 7: there's a bunch of men trapped.

1032
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 2: You know, you're fellow citizens trapped, you know. And he's

1033
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:40,279
Speaker 2: Bo is charismatic?

1034
00:52:41,640 --> 00:52:42,440
Speaker 5: Was he handsome?

1035
00:52:42,960 --> 00:52:46,440
Speaker 2: I would not say so, But that's an opinion that

1036
00:52:46,520 --> 00:52:48,719
Speaker 2: people can have or not have on their own.

1037
00:52:48,800 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 3: You know.

1038
00:52:49,239 --> 00:52:51,800
Speaker 2: It's not my job to tell you which war criminals

1039
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:52,280
Speaker 2: are hot.

1040
00:52:52,480 --> 00:52:55,280
Speaker 5: Yes, it is, well, I beg to different.

1041
00:52:56,320 --> 00:53:00,160
Speaker 3: Literally, do have a short list of really hot work

1042
00:53:00,200 --> 00:53:00,880
Speaker 3: from listen.

1043
00:53:00,760 --> 00:53:04,120
Speaker 4: At this point, were we at home, you would have

1044
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:06,919
Speaker 4: pulled up some sort of picture, you.

1045
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,040
Speaker 5: Know that we would try.

1046
00:53:08,440 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 3: You cut that.

1047
00:53:10,080 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 2: You you forced me to cut that twenty eight minute

1048
00:53:12,360 --> 00:53:14,400
Speaker 2: digression out of the polepot episodes.

1049
00:53:14,520 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 3: So I don't know what to do. I'm sorry. I

1050
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,719
Speaker 3: should have called a pole hot am I right? That's

1051
00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 3: all folks, Thank you so much.

1052
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:26,439
Speaker 1: Man.

1053
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 3: Wow, so such low hanging fruit, Like how I never.

1054
00:53:37,080 --> 00:53:37,560
Speaker 4: Thought of that?

1055
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:40,880
Speaker 2: Yeah again I did they cut it around?

1056
00:53:41,680 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 5: Why? I don't know. It's been bothering the.

1057
00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 2: Sorry some of us remember again the troops just one?

1058
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:52,880
Speaker 2: Well because one part one one version of Riker was

1059
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,680
Speaker 2: left behind after a transporter accident, which is how his

1060
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:57,120
Speaker 2: transporter clone came to be.

1061
00:53:57,840 --> 00:54:00,360
Speaker 3: Yes, some people know they're history.

1062
00:54:00,640 --> 00:54:01,120
Speaker 4: Thank you.

1063
00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:04,959
Speaker 5: Flat for him.

1064
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:06,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, let's give it.

1065
00:54:06,760 --> 00:54:08,960
Speaker 2: Let's give a real big round of applause for the

1066
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 2: Riker that joined the McKee. There we go, yeah, big rife.

1067
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:21,280
Speaker 2: Oh okay, all right, sel Madness both starts touring.

1068
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:22,600
Speaker 3: He goes all around.

1069
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,000
Speaker 2: He's taken donations, he's given lots of interviews, he's getting

1070
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:28,160
Speaker 2: on TV all the time, and he's telling stories about

1071
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,040
Speaker 2: his time in Vietnam to get like the saddest stories

1072
00:54:31,040 --> 00:54:33,200
Speaker 2: he has, right, because the more emotional people are, the

1073
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 2: more willing they are to give him money for this

1074
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 2: stupid shit. And his favorite go to story is the

1075
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,400
Speaker 2: tale of a real guy Sergeant George Hogland. George was

1076
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:44,799
Speaker 2: a Green Beret, a comrade who Grits said had been

1077
00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,400
Speaker 2: wounded during an ambush. And so grit says, you know,

1078
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 2: Hogland gets wounded, and me and some other guys we

1079
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:52,799
Speaker 2: have to run back, and we're trying to rescue him, right,

1080
00:54:52,920 --> 00:54:56,520
Speaker 2: And Hogland, being such a hero, realizes that his teammates

1081
00:54:56,520 --> 00:54:58,560
Speaker 2: are going to die in this ambush if they try

1082
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:02,160
Speaker 2: to save him, and so, in an act of utter selflessness,

1083
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 2: Hogland puts his own AR fifteen to his head and

1084
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:07,840
Speaker 2: quote pulled the trigger, eliminating the need for us to

1085
00:55:07,840 --> 00:55:08,200
Speaker 2: be there.

1086
00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 3: That's what Bo says.

1087
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:13,520
Speaker 2: Now, this would happened certainly be a shocking and sobering

1088
00:55:13,560 --> 00:55:18,320
Speaker 2: story of sacrifice if any of it were even slightly true. Now,

1089
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:20,680
Speaker 2: the problem is Bo has chosen to lie about a

1090
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:24,120
Speaker 2: real dude who really died and who he had not

1091
00:55:24,280 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 2: served with, but other guys had most of the press

1092
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 2: when for a long time he gets away with this

1093
00:55:30,480 --> 00:55:32,200
Speaker 2: because most journals are like, well, he's a Green Bray,

1094
00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:33,919
Speaker 2: I must be telling the truth. He wouldn't lie about

1095
00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:40,320
Speaker 2: another Green Beret. That'd be fucked up. Thankfully, the Washington

1096
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:42,680
Speaker 2: Post was still the real newspaper back in the eighties,

1097
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: and Art Harris. Art Harris reached out to Chuck Heiner,

1098
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:49,239
Speaker 2: who was one of two members of Hogland's squad who

1099
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:54,320
Speaker 2: survived the actual ambush that killed Hogland, and Heiner claimed, quote,

1100
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,359
Speaker 2: Grits wasn't even on that goddamn team. I was with

1101
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:00,319
Speaker 2: George when he died. He just got blown away. Must

1102
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 2: have taken one hundred and fifty rounds.

1103
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:04,400
Speaker 3: Very dead, damn.

1104
00:56:04,680 --> 00:56:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a lot of dead. They were not they

1105
00:56:08,440 --> 00:56:11,120
Speaker 2: were not taking chance. Yeah, right, that's pretty pretty bad.

1106
00:56:11,680 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 3: Now.

1107
00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 2: This is the kind of lie that shouldn't have even

1108
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 2: taken an interview to bus. My first thing would have

1109
00:56:16,239 --> 00:56:18,560
Speaker 2: been like, wait, so this guy got wounded and then

1110
00:56:18,600 --> 00:56:21,719
Speaker 2: he shot himself in the head with an AR fifteen,

1111
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:23,720
Speaker 2: like for one thing.

1112
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:28,239
Speaker 3: They usually have like pistols. Right, just so seems a

1113
00:56:28,239 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 3: little over, you know.

1114
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,239
Speaker 2: It's just it's just weird that he'd lie about this specifically, right,

1115
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:35,680
Speaker 2: And I think the weirdest.

1116
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:42,120
Speaker 6: I think why you have such staun well Yeah, and

1117
00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:45,960
Speaker 6: bo and Bo is a compulsive liar, right, Like he's

1118
00:56:46,000 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 6: someone who absolutely cannot control it.

1119
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:50,480
Speaker 3: And what matters most of him isn't the truth. It's

1120
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:52,320
Speaker 3: continuing to live as if he were.

1121
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,239
Speaker 2: A movie protagonist, long after he'd gotten too old and

1122
00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:59,400
Speaker 2: slow to continue shooting people for the government. Now, folks,

1123
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,640
Speaker 2: we're going to continue this story, don't you worry. And

1124
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:04,880
Speaker 2: we're going to continue and conclude with a Q and

1125
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:07,400
Speaker 2: a to let you guys ask some questions and whatnot.

1126
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 2: But we're going to take an intermission because that's a thing.

1127
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:11,560
Speaker 3: That we do here.

1128
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,960
Speaker 2: So go get yourself a drink, use the restaurant, buy

1129
00:57:15,160 --> 00:57:15,960
Speaker 2: some T shirts.

1130
00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:18,400
Speaker 3: There's merch t shirts, stickers, merch.

1131
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:21,400
Speaker 2: To support the Portland Defense Fund, and then in a

1132
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,400
Speaker 2: couple of minutes we will come back and we will

1133
00:57:23,480 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 2: learn more about bo right, who I think is going

1134
00:57:25,760 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: to become a good guy by the end of this.

1135
00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:30,840
Speaker 3: I don't remember the remainings five pages.

1136
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:44,560
Speaker 8: Of the script, but Christmas episode Yeah Yeah.

1137
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,480
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards is a production of cool Zone Media.

1138
00:57:48,600 --> 00:57:51,200
Speaker 1: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool

1139
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

1140
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1141
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:02,040
Speaker 5: Behind the Bastards is now available on new episodes every

1142
00:58:02,040 --> 00:58:05,880
Speaker 5: Wednesday and Friday. Subscribe to our channel YouTube dot com.

1143
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,000
Speaker 5: Slash at behind the bastards