WEBVTT - Loving HER Was Red (feat. Bowen Yang) 0:00:03.080 --> 0:00:08.240 Do you know what my favorite sound is? Emma Emma. 0:00:08.720 --> 0:00:12.760 That is so our friendship exactly. It's you saying Emma 0:00:12.840 --> 0:00:15.640 to me. It's also kind of you saying Emma to me. 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:18.160 But when I'm saying Emma to you, it's like, please 0:00:18.200 --> 0:00:20.920 see me as a human being, and yours is like 0:00:21.480 --> 0:00:25.239 stop being being, I see you as a whole. Oh, 0:00:25.239 --> 0:00:34.880 thank you, Fran. Yes, what's your favorite color? It's probably 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:39.080 an Eves Climb blue. What about yours? I would also 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.440 say blue. I don't have a specific kind of blue though. 0:00:42.600 --> 0:00:47.200 Oh really, you just like all blues, like just like blue, 0:00:47.320 --> 0:00:51.200 even like a like a like a hideous like navy blue. See. 0:00:51.240 --> 0:00:53.120 I think this is one of the differences between us 0:00:53.200 --> 0:00:56.760 is you have to know exactly what kind of blue 0:00:56.800 --> 0:00:59.760 you like. I just like the color blue. Okay, okay, 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:02.560 so why did you ask me? That? Color? Is going 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:06.240 to be very important today because we will be talking 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:09.640 about an album that has the name of a color, 0:01:09.760 --> 0:01:11.840 and what color would that be? Rose? It would be 0:01:11.880 --> 0:01:14.800 read Today we'll be talking about Red by Taylor Swift, 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.520 maybe my second favorite color, maybe my second favorite Taylor 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:20.560 Swift album. I guess we'll get into it. Welcome back 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:22.800 to Like a Virgin, the podcast where we talk about 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:26.399 yesterday's pop culture but give it today's takes. I'm Rose, 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:31.360 damn you, I'm Fran Toronto, and today, as stated, we 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.399 will be diving into Taylor Swift's iconic album Red, with 0:01:35.440 --> 0:01:38.680 the help of bow and Yang of Saturday Night Live 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:42.280 and the podcast Lost Culture Stas. I'm so excited to 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:47.000 really get into Red with Bowen. But before that, let's 0:01:47.000 --> 0:01:49.160 talk about what's going on in you know, the news 0:01:49.160 --> 0:01:56.440 and pop culture right now. This week is in many 0:01:56.480 --> 0:02:01.880 ways all about one woman and the emotional chokehold she 0:02:02.000 --> 0:02:07.680 has on us, our community, our community, and on the world. 0:02:07.880 --> 0:02:11.200 And that woman is Taylor Swift, of course, Taylor Allison Swift. 0:02:11.600 --> 0:02:16.840 Last week, Taylor Swift released Red, Taylor's Version, the latest 0:02:17.000 --> 0:02:23.320 in her effort to re record all of her albums. Fran, 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.720 what did you think? First of all, it's like seventeen 0:02:26.880 --> 0:02:31.280 hours long, um, which is such a gift, such a 0:02:31.320 --> 0:02:34.600 gift in my opinion. I mean, even though a lot 0:02:34.639 --> 0:02:39.880 of the songs are just carbon copies of the originals, 0:02:39.919 --> 0:02:43.280 I did love what she did change, Like this song 0:02:43.600 --> 0:02:46.600 Girl at Home to Me is like maybe the most 0:02:46.639 --> 0:02:51.120 significantly different, And I did not like that song on 0:02:51.440 --> 0:02:54.880 the original Red and Taylor's version to me was like 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.880 so grown and a little more poppy, and what did 0:02:58.880 --> 0:03:01.440 you think? I have to agree. I really liked the 0:03:01.560 --> 0:03:05.880 new production on Girl at Home, but really, for me, 0:03:06.080 --> 0:03:09.760 it was all about the from the Vault tracks. I 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:13.520 obviously love the song with Phoebe Bridgers. It was my 0:03:13.560 --> 0:03:16.720 favorite song. I also really love the song Message in 0:03:16.760 --> 0:03:20.079 a Bottle, which I saw someone on TikTok say is 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.960 like a song from the Trolls World War three credits 0:03:24.720 --> 0:03:27.520 and what I didn't love it, but I love it 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.919 so much. I have been listening to it kind of NonStop. 0:03:31.240 --> 0:03:34.000 But we have to talk about the film Rose. I 0:03:34.160 --> 0:03:37.400 had fun watching it. I think it's silly, but it's 0:03:37.680 --> 0:03:43.120 and and like very literal, but I'm I'm happy it happened. 0:03:43.240 --> 0:03:47.600 It was another moment in this very aggressive, like a 0:03:47.680 --> 0:03:51.160 week long album release cycle, because I think she understands 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:56.640 that she has until Adele thirty comes out to do 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:00.440 promo for Red Tailor's version, and so she's amming it 0:04:00.480 --> 0:04:02.920 all into one week. I thought it was a little 0:04:02.960 --> 0:04:06.200 on the nose that it played behind her during the 0:04:06.360 --> 0:04:09.559 SNL performance, but I loved her in The Red Wig. 0:04:09.760 --> 0:04:11.560 What did you think of it? Like that was your 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:14.080 main takeaway? I loved her in The Red Wig. It 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.400 was my main takeaway. It was similar to my main 0:04:16.440 --> 0:04:19.039 takeaway from the Bad Blood video. Loved her in The 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.960 Red Wig. Loved her in The Red Wig. I okay. 0:04:22.160 --> 0:04:27.560 I My first reaction was like, this is messy Boots, 0:04:27.720 --> 0:04:32.080 Like it is. It is quintessential Taylor to write and 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:35.239 direct a ten minute film about a breakup that happened 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:39.240 a decade ago, opening with a Pablo Naruta quote about 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:42.400 how he'll never forgive Jake Jillen Hall. Because like, when 0:04:42.440 --> 0:04:44.480 I listened to the ten minute version without the film, 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:47.840 I was like, oh, you know, maybe she's actually not 0:04:47.920 --> 0:04:50.600 that mad at Jake, and she's just writing it for 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:54.400 the marketing, very shrewdly and wisely, like go off, Taylor, um, 0:04:54.440 --> 0:04:55.960 and like she doesn't actually feel a type of way 0:04:55.960 --> 0:04:58.440 about it was just fun to write because allegedly, according 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.640 to like Redditt threads and fan listeners or whatever, she 0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:04.640 was like, you know, in the studio for whatever reason, 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:07.719 and they were recording all too well, and she just 0:05:07.760 --> 0:05:12.160 started riffing versus and I think, actually, I think they 0:05:12.160 --> 0:05:16.120 were rehearsing for a tour and she and she like 0:05:16.440 --> 0:05:19.719 was in feeling a certain type of way, sat down 0:05:19.720 --> 0:05:22.919 at the piano and just started playing and like and 0:05:23.040 --> 0:05:26.120 all too well is kind of like an improvised ten 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.240 minute song, but they cut down and this is now 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.560 the this is not the original version. And after she 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:34.800 was riffing this, I guess it was ages ago, the 0:05:34.839 --> 0:05:36.720 producer walked up to her after almost like and by 0:05:36.760 --> 0:05:38.760 the way, like I recorded that if if you want 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:41.480 it for later, and so this is later, mama, and 0:05:41.560 --> 0:05:44.680 we now. Actually what happened is that her mom walked 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.320 up to love the live fact that you just let 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:50.640 your you're letting me spew conspiracy theories when you have 0:05:50.720 --> 0:05:53.000 all the facts. You're in the reddit threads. It comes. 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:55.160 I'm not in the reddit threads. She talked about this 0:05:55.240 --> 0:05:58.520 like on Steth Myers or Jimmy Fallon or something that 0:05:58.560 --> 0:06:02.680 she was like at rehearsal in her feelings started playing 0:06:02.720 --> 0:06:05.359 this and then afterwards her mom went up to like 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:09.200 the sound engineer and was like did you record that? 0:06:09.320 --> 0:06:12.359 And they had so key how it is now it 0:06:12.440 --> 0:06:15.280 is what it is, Fran did you order a funk 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:18.360 the Patriarchy key chain from Taylor Swift dot com. I 0:06:18.720 --> 0:06:21.360 mean no, I didn't. I don't love the typeface, but 0:06:21.480 --> 0:06:24.600 I actually would if it was maybe to have the 0:06:24.680 --> 0:06:29.720 asterisk and can't you just say funck? I understand that 0:06:29.800 --> 0:06:32.760 she has a lot of young fans, but like if 0:06:32.800 --> 0:06:36.120 they have if they're carrying around a key chain that 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:40.400 says the patriarchy, like they know what it is. I 0:06:40.480 --> 0:06:43.880 did buy some merch. I bought the All Too Well 0:06:44.120 --> 0:06:48.480 t shirt and the red Taylor's version. Now, Jean Bottle, 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:51.680 are you going to wear it with your cardigan? Your 0:06:51.680 --> 0:06:54.680 Taylor Swift again? I will be. I now at this 0:06:54.800 --> 0:06:58.120 point own too much Taylor Swift merch, so I will 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:03.000 be layering it to um stay warm during this uh 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:06.760 Los Angeles winter. I guess my only question for you 0:07:06.920 --> 0:07:10.720 is what to you is the most unhinged lyric and 0:07:10.920 --> 0:07:13.200 or moment from the All two Well ten minute version 0:07:13.560 --> 0:07:16.120 or the film Oh well, I mean not unhinged, but 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:19.640 my favorite lyric is you kept me like a secret, 0:07:19.640 --> 0:07:22.160 but I kept you like an oath. You know. Don't 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:26.360 don't hate that I'm being sincere, but that is pure 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:31.200 Taylor Gold songwriting. It is so evocative, it is definitely peaked. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:34.680 Taylor is is her magnum opus. I don't say that 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.600 even in a facetious way. I think it's emblematic of 0:07:37.640 --> 0:07:40.960 like everything she does. My main takeaway was that Taylor 0:07:41.000 --> 0:07:46.480 Swift will direct a Marvel movie. She what that? I 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:48.680 don't know about that. Is she going to direct the 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.400 next Eternals? Is that? What's going to happen? Journals too? 0:07:52.640 --> 0:07:55.080 And she will be one of the Eternals as well? 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:57.760 Oh no, there are already too many Eternals. We simply 0:07:57.800 --> 0:07:59.880 do not have room for more. And her power will 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:04.040 be something song based. Yeah yeah, well yeah, okay, okay, 0:08:04.080 --> 0:08:07.480 maybe she'll have ten rings for each minute of um 0:08:07.640 --> 0:08:12.000 all too well. Uh, speaking of rings, I haven't watched 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:16.920 the Adele one Night Only whatever, but I did see 0:08:17.000 --> 0:08:20.760 the clip of the proposal that happened at it. Your take, 0:08:21.080 --> 0:08:24.080 there are only two takes from you. Either you hated 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.600 it and you found it foul and disgusting, or you 0:08:26.640 --> 0:08:30.240 loved animated you cry, well, which one do you think 0:08:30.240 --> 0:08:36.559 it was? I am gonna guess cry no, oh damn it. Okay, 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:38.439 so I thought it was. I thought it was disgusting. 0:08:38.760 --> 0:08:43.000 I hate I hate a surprise proposals in front of 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:47.760 a lot of people, and especially in front of celebrities. 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:50.280 And it's funny that we're talking about Taylor Swift because 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:53.439 this used to happen to her a lot at her 0:08:53.520 --> 0:08:57.480 meet and greets. I remember when we were both writing 0:08:57.640 --> 0:09:01.240 together as journalists. Um, there was something that happened where 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.040 she went to a gay bar to surprise a gay 0:09:04.080 --> 0:09:06.920 couple and like played something on the guitar while they 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:10.480 got engaged. Um, I'm just not into that thing and 0:09:10.520 --> 0:09:14.960 this Adele thing. Like I guess I'm happy for them, 0:09:15.240 --> 0:09:17.640 but even though I don't believe in marriage, I don't 0:09:17.640 --> 0:09:20.120 want anyone to propose to me. But even if I did, 0:09:20.559 --> 0:09:23.400 that is not how I would want to be proposed to. 0:09:23.640 --> 0:09:27.959 The gist is congrats to this lucky couple. I hope 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.440 you are very happy together and have many long years 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.520 of listening to Adele's music. And after those long years, 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.760 I'm sure you'll probably cry about this in therapy because 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:42.439 it'll be maybe an issue in your marriage a decade down. Fran, 0:09:43.559 --> 0:09:47.440 you know, it's rare that you are caught up on 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:52.480 something in pop culture that I am not, but it 0:09:52.600 --> 0:09:56.680 is not unprecedented. Case in point, you are watching the 0:09:56.720 --> 0:09:58.960 current season of Real hospives of Salt Lake City, and 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:03.440 I am not so as our Salt Lake City correspondent. 0:10:04.120 --> 0:10:07.199 Can you give me the download on what's going on 0:10:07.240 --> 0:10:11.319 because I know the past two weeks have been insane, 0:10:11.800 --> 0:10:14.320 so Rose, I don't want to get too into the 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.360 into the thick of it, as they say, um into 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:19.640 the thick of it, exactly into the thick of it 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.520 Ocean Kelly Remix, Yes, because you know, we don't want 0:10:22.520 --> 0:10:26.520 to become a Real Housewives recap podcast. However, Andy did 0:10:26.559 --> 0:10:29.640 say this was a top five episode for him out 0:10:29.640 --> 0:10:32.480 of any franchise. You know the gist of the characters. 0:10:32.559 --> 0:10:34.880 You watched a little bit of the first season crapt 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:38.439 and I watched the first episode of this season. Okay, 0:10:38.480 --> 0:10:40.040 so you're caught up on a little bit, and you 0:10:40.080 --> 0:10:42.440 also watched you've seen clips online, you watched the previews. 0:10:42.720 --> 0:10:47.400 The gist is the show has become a C. S 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:52.760 I level crime thriller that could potentially even supersed what 0:10:52.880 --> 0:10:55.839 we were given by Erica Jane in Real Housewives of 0:10:55.920 --> 0:10:59.400 Beverly Hills. Of course, this is at the federal level, 0:10:59.559 --> 0:11:04.120 similar to Erica Jane, but the Department of Homeland Security 0:11:04.120 --> 0:11:09.240 showed up with a swat team to the production and 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:13.400 to get gen Shaw, who had fled the scene basically 0:11:13.520 --> 0:11:16.560 minutes before they arrived. Why did they need a swat 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:19.720 team which she armed? So here's the thing is that 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:24.040 they did. There was a lot of theories and hypothesizations 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:27.960 completely made up word um spewed in the bus as 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:31.680 they had basically a six hour bus ride right after 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:33.480 the swat team shows up to their bus. Can you 0:11:33.520 --> 0:11:38.080 imagine that like the gaggiest thing that ever happened, and 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.320 then you have six hours in a moving vehicle to 0:11:41.559 --> 0:11:45.199 talk about it. That's that's the dream. That is honestly 0:11:45.400 --> 0:11:49.959 what made the episode so brilliant because these housewives were 0:11:50.000 --> 0:11:52.679 breaking it down in real time, almost as if they 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:55.320 were doing it with the audience, like trying to figure 0:11:55.360 --> 0:11:59.560 out what the funk went down. Clearly production was involved 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:02.960 in some way. They were like, she's on the bus. Yeah, 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:06.400 the production probably tipped off the FBI. I mean, I 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.000 think it's pretty clear the production tipped off. However, I 0:12:09.400 --> 0:12:12.040 think what the narrative is is that Meredith Marks did it, 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:17.840 thus securing her place as my number one housewife in 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:22.439 this franchise and in My Housewives All Stars cast point 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:25.520 blank period. The only thing I did see from this 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:29.640 episode on Twitter was the clip of Meredith um in 0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:34.040 the bathtub. Can you please explain what was going on? There? 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.280 A crucial dichotomy as the women are on this bus, 0:12:37.760 --> 0:12:40.120 all of them sobbing. I should say, you know, it 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.800 is very funny, but all of their immediate reactions, with 0:12:42.840 --> 0:12:45.240 the exception of Jenny, who is iconic and stone face, 0:12:45.320 --> 0:12:48.280 the whole time they're all crying. They have a friend 0:12:48.360 --> 0:12:51.559 who has basically lied to them at the federal level, 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:56.480 and it's revealed that their friends. Yeah, all one day 0:12:56.520 --> 0:13:01.000 one day as the SWAT team breaks down my apartment door, um, 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:05.000 and uh, they're all like very emotional with this experience, um, 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:07.280 and trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.400 Lisa calls all six of her lawyers in an iconic 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:13.520 montage that is like in House Lives history, And meanwhile 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:18.760 Meredith Mars is drunk toasted in the bath like a 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:23.400 huge bubble bath serving honestly me, Um, I think she 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:25.480 has like a glass of champagne, or she doesn't, she 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.719 should and she waits in that bath for hours so 0:13:28.760 --> 0:13:31.400 that it is the way that she greets the women 0:13:31.480 --> 0:13:34.040 as they arrived to the vacation home that this six 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:37.080 hour bus is going to fully naked. She is definitely 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:39.320 fully naked. She might be wearing like a nude panty 0:13:39.440 --> 0:13:45.320 or something like for production, but the garden venus Mary 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:47.680 Cosby was not in the bus. She arrives ahead of 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:50.560 time as Meredith Mars has like drawn this long bath 0:13:50.600 --> 0:13:54.360 obviously just for production purposes, and they sit and gossip 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:57.840 about jen Shaw for so long that all the bubbles disintegrate, 0:13:57.840 --> 0:14:00.560 and so Meredith is like clutched in the corner of 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.120 the bath, nude, still trying to conceal herself in gossip 0:14:03.200 --> 0:14:06.120 about federal cases. Okay, what I want to know is 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:11.000 in the pantheon of iconic unhinged Housewives moments, Um, where 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:15.000 does this stuck up against? Like, but now we've said it, 0:14:15.760 --> 0:14:20.920 Beverly Hills Charay pulling Kim Zolesiac's wig off on Atlanta 0:14:21.600 --> 0:14:25.560 and Scary Island from New York. You know what I 0:14:25.680 --> 0:14:29.080 thought about Scary Island and but now we've said it. 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:33.200 When I watched this episode, it has definitely one upped. 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:38.240 The Charay pulling off of the wig is definitely more 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:42.920 enthralling and engaging than that episode. Compared to Scary Island. 0:14:43.320 --> 0:14:46.480 Nothing compares to Scary Nothing contars to Scary Island. However, 0:14:46.640 --> 0:14:50.080 it is definitely in that canon, definitely in top five. 0:14:50.400 --> 0:14:52.040 I don't know if you plan on watching it, but 0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:54.280 I do feel like you will be. I will. I 0:14:54.320 --> 0:14:58.080 will definitely go watch these two episodes where this happened. 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:01.280 But I think that's as much I need to see. Okay, 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:03.960 t b D, tb D. I hope you enjoy the 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:07.680 ride and then that you text me under penalty of death. 0:15:08.560 --> 0:15:12.880 I absolutely will. Now that we have covered this week's 0:15:13.360 --> 0:15:17.360 pop culture happenings, let's talk about Red with Bow and Yang. 0:15:17.360 --> 0:15:19.520 I'm so excited now that we've talked about Taylor's version 0:15:19.560 --> 0:15:24.440 to really dig into how it has radicalized us as 0:15:24.440 --> 0:15:43.440 the swifties we are today. Don't don't don't Fran. You 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:47.240 have named your stands the fran base. I have not. 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:50.440 I have a person, really, and you have named yours 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:54.640 the Rosebuds. Well, they actually named themselves the Rosebuds. And 0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:58.600 I'm wondering if our guest has our guest bow and Yang. 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:01.360 Do your stands have name? I don't think they do. 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:06.080 I don't wish. I I celebrate fan names I just 0:16:06.160 --> 0:16:11.160 don't if I think about people who like identify as 0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:13.960 liking me, then that that really freaks me out. Well, 0:16:14.000 --> 0:16:17.080 it must be different from for you because you're actually favored. 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:20.240 No no, no, no, no no no. I already get 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:23.560 too many d ms or tags where people will hashtag 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.080 like yang yang me, and I'm like, that's not for me. 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:28.440 You guys know that I don't know what you're talking about. 0:16:28.520 --> 0:16:32.000 Yangang sounds perfect, stop and it just rolls off the tongue. 0:16:32.680 --> 0:16:35.520 And it's honestly a very good hashtag. It's a very 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:39.120 good like base name. We love a rhyme, we love 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:42.400 a rhyme, but like it just there's there. There's there's 0:16:42.440 --> 0:16:44.360 a lot of baggage that has nothing to do with me, 0:16:44.520 --> 0:16:46.680 and so therefore I don't I don't want it. You know, well, 0:16:46.720 --> 0:16:50.040 today we want you to unpack that baggage. Also, if 0:16:50.080 --> 0:16:53.520 you couldn't tell today we're talking about Red Red, what 0:16:53.640 --> 0:16:58.400 year was Red? October twelve came out and today is 0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:02.960 October two to twenty two. The magic of recording this 0:17:03.040 --> 0:17:05.719 episode is coming to you from the past. Yes, um, 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.960 it is not actually live and happening as you listen 0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:11.400 to it, and we are recording it on the anniversary 0:17:11.440 --> 0:17:13.679 of Red's release. Did you mean for that to happen? 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:19.560 I don't know. We did not. And Taylor Swift, as 0:17:19.600 --> 0:17:24.040 we know, is a numerologist famously puzzles Da Vinci code. 0:17:24.440 --> 0:17:27.000 And we may not have known that this is happening, 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:29.919 but she knew. And all of us are Robert Langdon 0:17:30.800 --> 0:17:33.040 the main character in the da Vinci code. Well, I 0:17:33.160 --> 0:17:35.840 might be who's the villain in the da Vinci code? 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:40.840 There's um is it Leonardo da Vinci? It's Mary Magdalench. 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.520 You are Mary Magdalene? You really are? You really are? Bowen? Yeah? 0:17:47.600 --> 0:17:50.840 Tell us about Red? Okay, so Red it is one 0:17:50.840 --> 0:17:53.160 of the top albums, and this album is the top. 0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:57.640 I think this album is. I think this album is 0:17:57.680 --> 0:18:02.720 like full true true verse. I would say the lead 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:06.240 singles are all tops, except for maybe begin Again, which 0:18:06.280 --> 0:18:08.840 seems like a bottom anthem, not an anthem, just to 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:13.879 bottom sort of acoustic plucky song. Anyway. Red is Taylor 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:19.000 Swift's fourth studio album. It marked the inflection of her 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:23.280 country roots quote unquote into this pop sound that many 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.879 would say that she had always sort of tipped her 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.520 way into. Played with it. She played with it well, 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:32.720 this was the first like declarative. I guess you could 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:35.439 say that was like the first like she build it 0:18:35.480 --> 0:18:38.000 as like her first true pop album. But Red was 0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.480 like an album of many first This is when it started, 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:43.879 This is when it started ended. You know. She comes 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:46.959 out with We're Never Getting Back Together, which becomes her 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:52.840 first number one single. Yeah, she it's her first album 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:56.840 with Max Martin songs and hear that and you can 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.480 hear that the maximal is the maximum. I was talking 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:02.399 to Roles about how this came in the era of 0:19:02.480 --> 0:19:05.800 music where every song sounded like a pit Bull song. Yes, 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:09.120 it's like Gangham style. And this was also the era 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:11.600 of dub step, as you can hear on I Knew 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:15.360 You Were Trouble and it's I think it's your longest 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:17.680 Oh no, I think it was eventually beat by folklore. 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:20.560 It was her longest album with the most tracks. It 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:25.080 is a long album, a lot of tracks. It's another 0:19:25.320 --> 0:19:28.879 another kind of maximalism. There's the maximalism of Max Martin 0:19:29.040 --> 0:19:31.159 being involved, and there's a maximalism of like just the 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.680 volume and the breadth of the of the song. It 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:38.520 was also we could say an emotional maximalism. Sure, wait, 0:19:39.040 --> 0:19:44.440 go into this time because this is a very well, 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:46.840 this is a breakup album. You know, it's a breakup 0:19:46.840 --> 0:19:50.119 album and it has I think some of her most 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.800 emotive songs on it. Yes, absolutely. I think it's also 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:59.120 the first time where people started to kind of notice 0:19:59.200 --> 0:20:03.320 this concept of the track five and Taylor Swift albums 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.200 and now it's like, I guess sort of people vaguely 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:10.800 know it maybe, but like typically her track fives on 0:20:10.840 --> 0:20:14.719 her albums are the most emotionally raw song. What are 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:16.919 some of the other track five? Um, all you have 0:20:17.000 --> 0:20:22.359 to do with stay? Track five on Reputation was delicate? Um. 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:26.439 Track five on speak Now is I think Dear John 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:31.440 like and white Horse was on Fearless. I can't believe 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:34.760 how you are summoning this swifty out of me. Look, 0:20:34.880 --> 0:20:37.600 so else would we call into the studio? We picked 0:20:37.680 --> 0:20:42.440 up our Swift follows and it was a red phone. 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.280 It was a red phone, And then I said, a crisis. 0:20:46.200 --> 0:20:50.119 Can we what was the red thing? With? Ta okay, 0:20:50.200 --> 0:20:52.240 here we go. This is the red thing. This is 0:20:52.280 --> 0:20:55.880 my theory on the Red Thing. Around this time, there 0:20:55.920 --> 0:20:59.359 was an announcement that they were making a biopic about 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.640 Joni Mitch Carly Simon and Carol King and I think 0:21:02.640 --> 0:21:05.600 it's called Girls Like Us or something, And the rumor 0:21:05.800 --> 0:21:10.720 was and Taylor Swift was vying for the Joni Mitchell role, 0:21:11.760 --> 0:21:14.080 and Joni Mitchell years later would say, I put a 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.640 stop to that myself. I don't like her. I don't 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:19.360 like Taylor. ID just sown Taylor. But I think Taylor 0:21:19.400 --> 0:21:24.240 has always held this musical torch for Jonie for obviously. 0:21:24.280 --> 0:21:25.960 I mean, we all love Joni Mitchell, like everyone loves 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:28.800 Johny Mitchell. And I think, honestly, I think Taylor probably 0:21:28.880 --> 0:21:31.000 was like I want to like transition out of this 0:21:31.080 --> 0:21:37.760 like teen adjacent country pop style sound into something more 0:21:37.840 --> 0:21:41.640 quote unquote adult or mature. And she probably saw Blue 0:21:41.720 --> 0:21:45.520 by Joni Mitchell as this like north Star, Like this 0:21:45.600 --> 0:21:47.400 is like I want to create an album that has 0:21:47.480 --> 0:21:50.960 this kind of like not monument I wouldn't say Blue 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:53.640 was like monumental, but like there's this like I'm sure 0:21:53.680 --> 0:21:57.000 she wanted some like big legacy thing like she was 0:21:57.040 --> 0:22:00.600 going after like a future classic like Blue. And then 0:22:00.640 --> 0:22:03.800 Read is a very literal song about like synesthesia whatever. 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:07.920 But why do all of these artists of synesthesia. I'm 0:22:08.000 --> 0:22:12.800 so jealous. I don't think it's real. But Taylor doesn't 0:22:12.800 --> 0:22:15.280 have synesthesia. Well, Lord is going to call the studio 0:22:15.400 --> 0:22:22.480 right now, and how dare you invisibilize me and my keyboard? Anyways, 0:22:22.680 --> 0:22:24.679 I feel like the big thing about Taylor and I 0:22:24.680 --> 0:22:26.280 think that Joni Mitchell of it all is like her 0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.240 mode of like storytelling, and like I think that like 0:22:29.280 --> 0:22:31.280 the way she kind of like put herself into a 0:22:31.600 --> 0:22:35.320 into a song and like I guess reveled in her contradictions, 0:22:35.760 --> 0:22:38.560 especially with this album, was really nice. I feel like 0:22:38.640 --> 0:22:42.800 before it's like quintessential girl next door. Just what how 0:22:42.800 --> 0:22:44.480 old was she when she started fifty? She was like 0:22:44.760 --> 0:22:48.440 she was technically sixteen like when the album released, but 0:22:48.520 --> 0:22:50.800 she was like she started when she was like fourteen, right, 0:22:50.960 --> 0:22:52.280 and so in that it's like it was a lot 0:22:52.280 --> 0:22:54.840 of innocence. She was a little sassy, she had a 0:22:54.880 --> 0:22:56.680 funny sense of humor. But this was the album where 0:22:56.720 --> 0:22:59.320 she was just like I came to fuck and these 0:22:59.320 --> 0:23:02.840 are all of contradictions. It almost like was like a 0:23:02.840 --> 0:23:05.639 prequel to I was going to say a prequel to 0:23:05.680 --> 0:23:07.840 a reputation, but I'm not like no no no, no 0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:10.040 no no no, don't keep going next Yes, followed because 0:23:10.080 --> 0:23:13.080 so much of it was like the anger of Red 0:23:13.320 --> 0:23:15.359 and like the kind of that that it was. It 0:23:15.440 --> 0:23:17.679 was not like a sad breakup album. It wasn't like 0:23:17.720 --> 0:23:22.520 it was angry. It was receipts, receipts. Well. It is 0:23:22.560 --> 0:23:25.280 her first album where she acknowledges her fame, like who's 0:23:25.280 --> 0:23:29.880 Taylor Swift anyway? Like You're much records, much cooler than mine. 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:32.520 Like this is like her finally coming into some self awareness, 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:34.719 being like I know who I am, how I who 0:23:34.800 --> 0:23:36.600 I am in this world, who I am to people? 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:39.879 And like I think, yes, that is a very astute observation. 0:23:40.160 --> 0:23:42.359 Also just before I forget, like one, I think the 0:23:42.359 --> 0:23:45.720 first time she like sings through another person's perspective, I 0:23:45.720 --> 0:23:47.960 think in Um, I think in Starlight, where she's like 0:23:48.000 --> 0:23:50.520