1 00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:08,240 Speaker 1: Do you know what my favorite sound is? Emma Emma. 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:12,760 Speaker 1: That is so our friendship exactly. It's you saying Emma 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: to me. It's also kind of you saying Emma to me. 4 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 1: But when I'm saying Emma to you, it's like, please 5 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: see me as a human being, and yours is like 6 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:25,239 Speaker 1: stop being being, I see you as a whole. Oh, 7 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 1: thank you, Fran. Yes, what's your favorite color? It's probably 8 00:00:35,320 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: an Eves Climb blue. What about yours? I would also 9 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: say blue. I don't have a specific kind of blue though. 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 1: Oh really, you just like all blues, like just like blue, 11 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:51,200 Speaker 1: even like a like a like a hideous like navy blue. See. 12 00:00:51,240 --> 00:00:53,120 Speaker 1: I think this is one of the differences between us 13 00:00:53,200 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 1: is you have to know exactly what kind of blue 14 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,760 Speaker 1: you like. I just like the color blue. Okay, okay, 15 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 1: so why did you ask me? That? Color? Is going 16 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 1: to be very important today because we will be talking 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 1: about an album that has the name of a color, 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 1: and what color would that be? Rose? It would be 19 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: read Today we'll be talking about Red by Taylor Swift, 20 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 1: maybe my second favorite color, maybe my second favorite Taylor 21 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,560 Speaker 1: Swift album. I guess we'll get into it. Welcome back 22 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: to Like a Virgin, the podcast where we talk about 23 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 1: yesterday's pop culture but give it today's takes. I'm Rose, 24 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 1: damn you, I'm Fran Toronto, and today, as stated, we 25 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:35,399 Speaker 1: will be diving into Taylor Swift's iconic album Red, with 26 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: the help of bow and Yang of Saturday Night Live 27 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 1: and the podcast Lost Culture Stas. I'm so excited to 28 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: really get into Red with Bowen. But before that, let's 29 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,160 Speaker 1: talk about what's going on in you know, the news 30 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:56,440 Speaker 1: and pop culture right now. This week is in many 31 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 1: ways all about one woman and the emotional chokehold she 32 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: has on us, our community, our community, and on the world. 33 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,200 Speaker 1: And that woman is Taylor Swift, of course, Taylor Allison Swift. 34 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,840 Speaker 1: Last week, Taylor Swift released Red, Taylor's Version, the latest 35 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:23,320 Speaker 1: in her effort to re record all of her albums. Fran, 36 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:26,720 Speaker 1: what did you think? First of all, it's like seventeen 37 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: hours long, um, which is such a gift, such a 38 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: gift in my opinion. I mean, even though a lot 39 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: of the songs are just carbon copies of the originals, 40 00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:43,280 Speaker 1: I did love what she did change, Like this song 41 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 1: Girl at Home to Me is like maybe the most 42 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: significantly different, And I did not like that song on 43 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: the original Red and Taylor's version to me was like 44 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: so grown and a little more poppy, and what did 45 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: you think? I have to agree. I really liked the 46 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 1: new production on Girl at Home, but really, for me, 47 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,760 Speaker 1: it was all about the from the Vault tracks. I 48 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,520 Speaker 1: obviously love the song with Phoebe Bridgers. It was my 49 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,720 Speaker 1: favorite song. I also really love the song Message in 50 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:20,079 Speaker 1: a Bottle, which I saw someone on TikTok say is 51 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: like a song from the Trolls World War three credits 52 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: and what I didn't love it, but I love it 53 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,919 Speaker 1: so much. I have been listening to it kind of NonStop. 54 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: But we have to talk about the film Rose. I 55 00:03:34,160 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: had fun watching it. I think it's silly, but it's 56 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 1: and and like very literal, but I'm I'm happy it happened. 57 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:47,600 Speaker 1: It was another moment in this very aggressive, like a 58 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 1: week long album release cycle, because I think she understands 59 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: that she has until Adele thirty comes out to do 60 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 1: promo for Red Tailor's version, and so she's amming it 61 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:02,920 Speaker 1: all into one week. I thought it was a little 62 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:06,200 Speaker 1: on the nose that it played behind her during the 63 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:09,559 Speaker 1: SNL performance, but I loved her in The Red Wig. 64 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 1: What did you think of it? Like that was your 65 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 1: main takeaway? I loved her in The Red Wig. It 66 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: was my main takeaway. It was similar to my main 67 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:19,039 Speaker 1: takeaway from the Bad Blood video. Loved her in The 68 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: Red Wig. Loved her in The Red Wig. I okay. 69 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: I My first reaction was like, this is messy Boots, 70 00:04:27,720 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 1: Like it is. It is quintessential Taylor to write and 71 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,239 Speaker 1: direct a ten minute film about a breakup that happened 72 00:04:35,640 --> 00:04:39,240 Speaker 1: a decade ago, opening with a Pablo Naruta quote about 73 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: how he'll never forgive Jake Jillen Hall. Because like, when 74 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 1: I listened to the ten minute version without the film, 75 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:47,840 Speaker 1: I was like, oh, you know, maybe she's actually not 76 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,600 Speaker 1: that mad at Jake, and she's just writing it for 77 00:04:50,680 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: the marketing, very shrewdly and wisely, like go off, Taylor, um, 78 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: and like she doesn't actually feel a type of way 79 00:04:55,960 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 1: about it was just fun to write because allegedly, according 80 00:04:58,480 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: to like Redditt threads and fan listeners or whatever, she 81 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,640 Speaker 1: was like, you know, in the studio for whatever reason, 82 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: and they were recording all too well, and she just 83 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:12,160 Speaker 1: started riffing versus and I think, actually, I think they 84 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: were rehearsing for a tour and she and she like 85 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:19,719 Speaker 1: was in feeling a certain type of way, sat down 86 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,919 Speaker 1: at the piano and just started playing and like and 87 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: all too well is kind of like an improvised ten 88 00:05:26,160 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: minute song, but they cut down and this is now 89 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 1: the this is not the original version. And after she 90 00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: was riffing this, I guess it was ages ago, the 91 00:05:34,839 --> 00:05:36,720 Speaker 1: producer walked up to her after almost like and by 92 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: the way, like I recorded that if if you want 93 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,480 Speaker 1: it for later, and so this is later, mama, and 94 00:05:41,560 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: we now. Actually what happened is that her mom walked 95 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 1: up to love the live fact that you just let 96 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: your you're letting me spew conspiracy theories when you have 97 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 1: all the facts. You're in the reddit threads. It comes. 98 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 1: I'm not in the reddit threads. She talked about this 99 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: like on Steth Myers or Jimmy Fallon or something that 100 00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 1: she was like at rehearsal in her feelings started playing 101 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:05,359 Speaker 1: this and then afterwards her mom went up to like 102 00:06:05,400 --> 00:06:09,200 Speaker 1: the sound engineer and was like did you record that? 103 00:06:09,320 --> 00:06:12,359 Speaker 1: And they had so key how it is now it 104 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,280 Speaker 1: is what it is, Fran did you order a funk 105 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 1: the Patriarchy key chain from Taylor Swift dot com. I 106 00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:21,360 Speaker 1: mean no, I didn't. I don't love the typeface, but 107 00:06:21,480 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: I actually would if it was maybe to have the 108 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 1: asterisk and can't you just say funck? I understand that 109 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 1: she has a lot of young fans, but like if 110 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 1: they have if they're carrying around a key chain that 111 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 1: says the patriarchy, like they know what it is. I 112 00:06:40,480 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: did buy some merch. I bought the All Too Well 113 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:48,480 Speaker 1: t shirt and the red Taylor's version. Now, Jean Bottle, 114 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:51,680 Speaker 1: are you going to wear it with your cardigan? Your 115 00:06:51,680 --> 00:06:54,680 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift again? I will be. I now at this 116 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:58,120 Speaker 1: point own too much Taylor Swift merch, so I will 117 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:03,000 Speaker 1: be layering it to um stay warm during this uh 118 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,760 Speaker 1: Los Angeles winter. I guess my only question for you 119 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: is what to you is the most unhinged lyric and 120 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: or moment from the All two Well ten minute version 121 00:07:13,560 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: or the film Oh well, I mean not unhinged, but 122 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 1: my favorite lyric is you kept me like a secret, 123 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: but I kept you like an oath. You know. Don't 124 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: don't hate that I'm being sincere, but that is pure 125 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:31,200 Speaker 1: Taylor Gold songwriting. It is so evocative, it is definitely peaked. 126 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 1: Taylor is is her magnum opus. I don't say that 127 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,600 Speaker 1: even in a facetious way. I think it's emblematic of 128 00:07:37,640 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: like everything she does. My main takeaway was that Taylor 129 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:46,480 Speaker 1: Swift will direct a Marvel movie. She what that? I 130 00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 1: don't know about that. Is she going to direct the 131 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:52,400 Speaker 1: next Eternals? Is that? What's going to happen? Journals too? 132 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 1: And she will be one of the Eternals as well? 133 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:57,760 Speaker 1: Oh no, there are already too many Eternals. We simply 134 00:07:57,800 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: do not have room for more. And her power will 135 00:08:00,040 --> 00:08:04,040 Speaker 1: be something song based. Yeah yeah, well yeah, okay, okay, 136 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: maybe she'll have ten rings for each minute of um 137 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: all too well. Uh, speaking of rings, I haven't watched 138 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: the Adele one Night Only whatever, but I did see 139 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,760 Speaker 1: the clip of the proposal that happened at it. Your take, 140 00:08:21,080 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: there are only two takes from you. Either you hated 141 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,600 Speaker 1: it and you found it foul and disgusting, or you 142 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:30,240 Speaker 1: loved animated you cry, well, which one do you think 143 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:36,559 Speaker 1: it was? I am gonna guess cry no, oh damn it. Okay, 144 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:38,439 Speaker 1: so I thought it was. I thought it was disgusting. 145 00:08:38,760 --> 00:08:43,000 Speaker 1: I hate I hate a surprise proposals in front of 146 00:08:43,000 --> 00:08:47,760 Speaker 1: a lot of people, and especially in front of celebrities. 147 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 1: And it's funny that we're talking about Taylor Swift because 148 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,439 Speaker 1: this used to happen to her a lot at her 149 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 1: meet and greets. I remember when we were both writing 150 00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 1: together as journalists. Um, there was something that happened where 151 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: she went to a gay bar to surprise a gay 152 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 1: couple and like played something on the guitar while they 153 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: got engaged. Um, I'm just not into that thing and 154 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,960 Speaker 1: this Adele thing. Like I guess I'm happy for them, 155 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:17,640 Speaker 1: but even though I don't believe in marriage, I don't 156 00:09:17,640 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 1: want anyone to propose to me. But even if I did, 157 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: that is not how I would want to be proposed to. 158 00:09:23,640 --> 00:09:27,959 Speaker 1: The gist is congrats to this lucky couple. I hope 159 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 1: you are very happy together and have many long years 160 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,520 Speaker 1: of listening to Adele's music. And after those long years, 161 00:09:35,520 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 1: I'm sure you'll probably cry about this in therapy because 162 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,439 Speaker 1: it'll be maybe an issue in your marriage a decade down. Fran, 163 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, it's rare that you are caught up on 164 00:09:47,640 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: something in pop culture that I am not, but it 165 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: is not unprecedented. Case in point, you are watching the 166 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: current season of Real hospives of Salt Lake City, and 167 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,440 Speaker 1: I am not so as our Salt Lake City correspondent. 168 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 1: Can you give me the download on what's going on 169 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:11,319 Speaker 1: because I know the past two weeks have been insane, 170 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: so Rose, I don't want to get too into the 171 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:17,360 Speaker 1: into the thick of it, as they say, um into 172 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:19,640 Speaker 1: the thick of it, exactly into the thick of it 173 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:22,520 Speaker 1: Ocean Kelly Remix, Yes, because you know, we don't want 174 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: to become a Real Housewives recap podcast. However, Andy did 175 00:10:26,559 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 1: say this was a top five episode for him out 176 00:10:29,640 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: of any franchise. You know the gist of the characters. 177 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: You watched a little bit of the first season crapt 178 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:38,439 Speaker 1: and I watched the first episode of this season. Okay, 179 00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,040 Speaker 1: so you're caught up on a little bit, and you 180 00:10:40,080 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: also watched you've seen clips online, you watched the previews. 181 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: The gist is the show has become a C. S 182 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,760 Speaker 1: I level crime thriller that could potentially even supersed what 183 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,839 Speaker 1: we were given by Erica Jane in Real Housewives of 184 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:59,400 Speaker 1: Beverly Hills. Of course, this is at the federal level, 185 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:04,120 Speaker 1: similar to Erica Jane, but the Department of Homeland Security 186 00:11:04,120 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: showed up with a swat team to the production and 187 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,400 Speaker 1: to get gen Shaw, who had fled the scene basically 188 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:16,560 Speaker 1: minutes before they arrived. Why did they need a swat 189 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: team which she armed? So here's the thing is that 190 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:24,040 Speaker 1: they did. There was a lot of theories and hypothesizations 191 00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: completely made up word um spewed in the bus as 192 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: they had basically a six hour bus ride right after 193 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:33,480 Speaker 1: the swat team shows up to their bus. Can you 194 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,080 Speaker 1: imagine that like the gaggiest thing that ever happened, and 195 00:11:38,120 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: then you have six hours in a moving vehicle to 196 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,199 Speaker 1: talk about it. That's that's the dream. That is honestly 197 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: what made the episode so brilliant because these housewives were 198 00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:52,679 Speaker 1: breaking it down in real time, almost as if they 199 00:11:52,679 --> 00:11:55,320 Speaker 1: were doing it with the audience, like trying to figure 200 00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 1: out what the funk went down. Clearly production was involved 201 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 1: in some way. They were like, she's on the bus. Yeah, 202 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: the production probably tipped off the FBI. I mean, I 203 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: think it's pretty clear the production tipped off. However, I 204 00:12:09,400 --> 00:12:12,040 Speaker 1: think what the narrative is is that Meredith Marks did it, 205 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:17,840 Speaker 1: thus securing her place as my number one housewife in 206 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:22,439 Speaker 1: this franchise and in My Housewives All Stars cast point 207 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,520 Speaker 1: blank period. The only thing I did see from this 208 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: episode on Twitter was the clip of Meredith um in 209 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: the bathtub. Can you please explain what was going on? There? 210 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: A crucial dichotomy as the women are on this bus, 211 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 1: all of them sobbing. I should say, you know, it 212 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: is very funny, but all of their immediate reactions, with 213 00:12:42,840 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: the exception of Jenny, who is iconic and stone face, 214 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: the whole time they're all crying. They have a friend 215 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,559 Speaker 1: who has basically lied to them at the federal level, 216 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,480 Speaker 1: and it's revealed that their friends. Yeah, all one day 217 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: one day as the SWAT team breaks down my apartment door, um, 218 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:05,000 Speaker 1: and uh, they're all like very emotional with this experience, um, 219 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:07,280 Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what the fuck is going on. 220 00:13:07,559 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: Lisa calls all six of her lawyers in an iconic 221 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: montage that is like in House Lives history, And meanwhile 222 00:13:13,640 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: Meredith Mars is drunk toasted in the bath like a 223 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:23,400 Speaker 1: huge bubble bath serving honestly me, Um, I think she 224 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:25,480 Speaker 1: has like a glass of champagne, or she doesn't, she 225 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:28,719 Speaker 1: should and she waits in that bath for hours so 226 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: that it is the way that she greets the women 227 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,040 Speaker 1: as they arrived to the vacation home that this six 228 00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 1: hour bus is going to fully naked. She is definitely 229 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: fully naked. She might be wearing like a nude panty 230 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: or something like for production, but the garden venus Mary 231 00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:47,680 Speaker 1: Cosby was not in the bus. She arrives ahead of 232 00:13:47,720 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: time as Meredith Mars has like drawn this long bath 233 00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 1: obviously just for production purposes, and they sit and gossip 234 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:57,840 Speaker 1: about jen Shaw for so long that all the bubbles disintegrate, 235 00:13:57,840 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: and so Meredith is like clutched in the corner of 236 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: the bath, nude, still trying to conceal herself in gossip 237 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,120 Speaker 1: about federal cases. Okay, what I want to know is 238 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,000 Speaker 1: in the pantheon of iconic unhinged Housewives moments, Um, where 239 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 1: does this stuck up against? Like, but now we've said it, 240 00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:20,920 Speaker 1: Beverly Hills Charay pulling Kim Zolesiac's wig off on Atlanta 241 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: and Scary Island from New York. You know what I 242 00:14:25,680 --> 00:14:29,080 Speaker 1: thought about Scary Island and but now we've said it. 243 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: When I watched this episode, it has definitely one upped. 244 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: The Charay pulling off of the wig is definitely more 245 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,920 Speaker 1: enthralling and engaging than that episode. Compared to Scary Island. 246 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: Nothing compares to Scary Nothing contars to Scary Island. However, 247 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 1: it is definitely in that canon, definitely in top five. 248 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 1: I don't know if you plan on watching it, but 249 00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:54,280 Speaker 1: I do feel like you will be. I will. I 250 00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: will definitely go watch these two episodes where this happened. 251 00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:01,280 Speaker 1: But I think that's as much I need to see. Okay, 252 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,960 Speaker 1: t b D, tb D. I hope you enjoy the 253 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 1: ride and then that you text me under penalty of death. 254 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:12,880 Speaker 1: I absolutely will. Now that we have covered this week's 255 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: pop culture happenings, let's talk about Red with Bow and Yang. 256 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,520 Speaker 1: I'm so excited now that we've talked about Taylor's version 257 00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: to really dig into how it has radicalized us as 258 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:43,440 Speaker 1: the swifties we are today. Don't don't don't Fran. You 259 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: have named your stands the fran base. I have not. 260 00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,440 Speaker 1: I have a person, really, and you have named yours 261 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 1: the Rosebuds. Well, they actually named themselves the Rosebuds. And 262 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: I'm wondering if our guest has our guest bow and Yang. 263 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:01,360 Speaker 1: Do your stands have name? I don't think they do. 264 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,080 Speaker 1: I don't wish. I I celebrate fan names I just 265 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:11,160 Speaker 1: don't if I think about people who like identify as 266 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: liking me, then that that really freaks me out. Well, 267 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,080 Speaker 1: it must be different from for you because you're actually favored. 268 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,240 Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no no no. I already get 269 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: too many d ms or tags where people will hashtag 270 00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,080 Speaker 1: like yang yang me, and I'm like, that's not for me. 271 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: You guys know that I don't know what you're talking about. 272 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: Yangang sounds perfect, stop and it just rolls off the tongue. 273 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:35,520 Speaker 1: And it's honestly a very good hashtag. It's a very 274 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,120 Speaker 1: good like base name. We love a rhyme, we love 275 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: a rhyme, but like it just there's there. There's there's 276 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,360 Speaker 1: a lot of baggage that has nothing to do with me, 277 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:46,680 Speaker 1: and so therefore I don't I don't want it. You know, well, 278 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,040 Speaker 1: today we want you to unpack that baggage. Also, if 279 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,520 Speaker 1: you couldn't tell today we're talking about Red Red, what 280 00:16:53,640 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: year was Red? October twelve came out and today is 281 00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:02,960 Speaker 1: October two to twenty two. The magic of recording this 282 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 1: episode is coming to you from the past. Yes, um, 283 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: it is not actually live and happening as you listen 284 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,400 Speaker 1: to it, and we are recording it on the anniversary 285 00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:13,679 Speaker 1: of Red's release. Did you mean for that to happen? 286 00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 1: I don't know. We did not. And Taylor Swift, as 287 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:24,040 Speaker 1: we know, is a numerologist famously puzzles Da Vinci code. 288 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: And we may not have known that this is happening, 289 00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,919 Speaker 1: but she knew. And all of us are Robert Langdon 290 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: the main character in the da Vinci code. Well, I 291 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 1: might be who's the villain in the da Vinci code? 292 00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: There's um is it Leonardo da Vinci? It's Mary Magdalench. 293 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:47,520 Speaker 1: You are Mary Magdalene? You really are? You really are? Bowen? Yeah? 294 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 1: Tell us about Red? Okay, so Red it is one 295 00:17:50,840 --> 00:17:53,160 Speaker 1: of the top albums, and this album is the top. 296 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: I think this album is. I think this album is 297 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:02,720 Speaker 1: like full true true verse. I would say the lead 298 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 1: singles are all tops, except for maybe begin Again, which 299 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 1: seems like a bottom anthem, not an anthem, just to 300 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,879 Speaker 1: bottom sort of acoustic plucky song. Anyway. Red is Taylor 301 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:19,000 Speaker 1: Swift's fourth studio album. It marked the inflection of her 302 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: country roots quote unquote into this pop sound that many 303 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: would say that she had always sort of tipped her 304 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,520 Speaker 1: way into. Played with it. She played with it well, 305 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: this was the first like declarative. I guess you could 306 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,439 Speaker 1: say that was like the first like she build it 307 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 1: as like her first true pop album. But Red was 308 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,480 Speaker 1: like an album of many first This is when it started, 309 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 1: This is when it started ended. You know. She comes 310 00:18:43,880 --> 00:18:46,959 Speaker 1: out with We're Never Getting Back Together, which becomes her 311 00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:52,840 Speaker 1: first number one single. Yeah, she it's her first album 312 00:18:52,840 --> 00:18:56,840 Speaker 1: with Max Martin songs and hear that and you can 313 00:18:57,000 --> 00:19:00,480 Speaker 1: hear that the maximal is the maximum. I was talking 314 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,399 Speaker 1: to Roles about how this came in the era of 315 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: music where every song sounded like a pit Bull song. Yes, 316 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 1: it's like Gangham style. And this was also the era 317 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:11,600 Speaker 1: of dub step, as you can hear on I Knew 318 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:15,360 Speaker 1: You Were Trouble and it's I think it's your longest 319 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: Oh no, I think it was eventually beat by folklore. 320 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: It was her longest album with the most tracks. It 321 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:25,080 Speaker 1: is a long album, a lot of tracks. It's another 322 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:28,879 Speaker 1: another kind of maximalism. There's the maximalism of Max Martin 323 00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 1: being involved, and there's a maximalism of like just the 324 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 1: volume and the breadth of the of the song. It 325 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:38,520 Speaker 1: was also we could say an emotional maximalism. Sure, wait, 326 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: go into this time because this is a very well, 327 00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,840 Speaker 1: this is a breakup album. You know, it's a breakup 328 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,119 Speaker 1: album and it has I think some of her most 329 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 1: emotive songs on it. Yes, absolutely. I think it's also 330 00:19:54,880 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 1: the first time where people started to kind of notice 331 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:03,320 Speaker 1: this concept of the track five and Taylor Swift albums 332 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: and now it's like, I guess sort of people vaguely 333 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 1: know it maybe, but like typically her track fives on 334 00:20:10,840 --> 00:20:14,719 Speaker 1: her albums are the most emotionally raw song. What are 335 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:16,919 Speaker 1: some of the other track five? Um, all you have 336 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:22,359 Speaker 1: to do with stay? Track five on Reputation was delicate? Um. 337 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: Track five on speak Now is I think Dear John 338 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:31,440 Speaker 1: like and white Horse was on Fearless. I can't believe 339 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:34,760 Speaker 1: how you are summoning this swifty out of me. Look, 340 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,600 Speaker 1: so else would we call into the studio? We picked 341 00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:42,440 Speaker 1: up our Swift follows and it was a red phone. 342 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: It was a red phone, And then I said, a crisis. 343 00:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,119 Speaker 1: Can we what was the red thing? With? Ta okay, 344 00:20:50,200 --> 00:20:52,240 Speaker 1: here we go. This is the red thing. This is 345 00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,880 Speaker 1: my theory on the Red Thing. Around this time, there 346 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: was an announcement that they were making a biopic about 347 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,640 Speaker 1: Joni Mitch Carly Simon and Carol King and I think 348 00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: it's called Girls Like Us or something, And the rumor 349 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: was and Taylor Swift was vying for the Joni Mitchell role, 350 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,080 Speaker 1: and Joni Mitchell years later would say, I put a 351 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:16,640 Speaker 1: stop to that myself. I don't like her. I don't 352 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,360 Speaker 1: like Taylor. ID just sown Taylor. But I think Taylor 353 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:24,240 Speaker 1: has always held this musical torch for Jonie for obviously. 354 00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:25,960 Speaker 1: I mean, we all love Joni Mitchell, like everyone loves 355 00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,800 Speaker 1: Johny Mitchell. And I think, honestly, I think Taylor probably 356 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,000 Speaker 1: was like I want to like transition out of this 357 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 1: like teen adjacent country pop style sound into something more 358 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,640 Speaker 1: quote unquote adult or mature. And she probably saw Blue 359 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 1: by Joni Mitchell as this like north Star, Like this 360 00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 1: is like I want to create an album that has 361 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: this kind of like not monument I wouldn't say Blue 362 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,640 Speaker 1: was like monumental, but like there's this like I'm sure 363 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:57,000 Speaker 1: she wanted some like big legacy thing like she was 364 00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: going after like a future classic like Blue. And then 365 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,800 Speaker 1: Read is a very literal song about like synesthesia whatever. 366 00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:07,920 Speaker 1: But why do all of these artists of synesthesia. I'm 367 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: so jealous. I don't think it's real. But Taylor doesn't 368 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:15,280 Speaker 1: have synesthesia. Well, Lord is going to call the studio 369 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: right now, and how dare you invisibilize me and my keyboard? Anyways, 370 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:24,679 Speaker 1: I feel like the big thing about Taylor and I 371 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,280 Speaker 1: think that Joni Mitchell of it all is like her 372 00:22:26,280 --> 00:22:29,240 Speaker 1: mode of like storytelling, and like I think that like 373 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 1: the way she kind of like put herself into a 374 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: into a song and like I guess reveled in her contradictions, 375 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: especially with this album, was really nice. I feel like 376 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: before it's like quintessential girl next door. Just what how 377 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:44,480 Speaker 1: old was she when she started fifty? She was like 378 00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:48,440 Speaker 1: she was technically sixteen like when the album released, but 379 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,800 Speaker 1: she was like she started when she was like fourteen, right, 380 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: and so in that it's like it was a lot 381 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: of innocence. She was a little sassy, she had a 382 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: funny sense of humor. But this was the album where 383 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: she was just like I came to fuck and these 384 00:22:59,320 --> 00:23:02,840 Speaker 1: are all of contradictions. It almost like was like a 385 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: prequel to I was going to say a prequel to 386 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:07,840 Speaker 1: a reputation, but I'm not like no no no, no 387 00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: no no no, don't keep going next Yes, followed because 388 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:13,080 Speaker 1: so much of it was like the anger of Red 389 00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: and like the kind of that that it was. It 390 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,679 Speaker 1: was not like a sad breakup album. It wasn't like 391 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:22,520 Speaker 1: it was angry. It was receipts, receipts. Well. It is 392 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,280 Speaker 1: her first album where she acknowledges her fame, like who's 393 00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:29,880 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift anyway? Like You're much records, much cooler than mine. 394 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,520 Speaker 1: Like this is like her finally coming into some self awareness, 395 00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 1: being like I know who I am, how I who 396 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,600 Speaker 1: I am in this world, who I am to people? 397 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,879 Speaker 1: And like I think, yes, that is a very astute observation. 398 00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:42,359 Speaker 1: Also just before I forget, like one, I think the 399 00:23:42,359 --> 00:23:45,720 Speaker 1: first time she like sings through another person's perspective, I 400 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,960 Speaker 1: think in Um, I think in Starlight, where she's like 401 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,520 Speaker 1: basically like singing about like being with like Kennedy and 402 00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:53,600 Speaker 1: like the sixties or something like she's like traveling through 403 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,480 Speaker 1: time and like I think, and then like that ends 404 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,399 Speaker 1: up like being this the this thing that recurs in 405 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,239 Speaker 1: folklore where she's like different points of view, like when 406 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,240 Speaker 1: we last Great American Dynasty. There you go like period 407 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 1: down my favorite hate, like one of my favorite songs 408 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: on folklore is last great American dynasty. Like I can 409 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,040 Speaker 1: be in my car like going hard to it. I would, 410 00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:20,880 Speaker 1: I would snore the line of Kennemy into American Dynasty. Yeah, 411 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:24,040 Speaker 1: I gotta, I gotta. I have snorted a lot of 412 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 1: Wait where we were we were in Big Bear. Oh yeah, 413 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:32,280 Speaker 1: when we were in Big Bear, we did and listened 414 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:42,159 Speaker 1: to folk. I'm so jealous we're getting a cabin. What 415 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:44,600 Speaker 1: I want to know is when did your relationship with 416 00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:48,480 Speaker 1: Taylor Swift begin? Yea, it began with Red because I 417 00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:51,200 Speaker 1: did not care for her until this album because loving 418 00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: her was red. Hev her was product Red was product right. 419 00:24:56,359 --> 00:24:58,560 Speaker 1: That was like a decade before did I had that? 420 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 1: I had at the Flipbone, did of the Motor product right. 421 00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:04,520 Speaker 1: I guess I'm I'm pro AIDS because I never bought 422 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,879 Speaker 1: a productress. You are you? You hate YouTube? Who was 423 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 1: the least thing bo right? And there's there's another there's 424 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: a YouTube connection to Red. Oh my god? Is it really? 425 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: I just I just feel like State of Grace the 426 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 1: opening track, my god, it is my favorite. It's my favorite. 427 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:26,080 Speaker 1: It's my favorite Taylor Swift song ever. And sisters told me, sister, 428 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:28,400 Speaker 1: I feel so held by it is when Okay, when 429 00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,639 Speaker 1: Spotify earlier this year did a thing where it was 430 00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 1: like gave you the like time. It was like, you're 431 00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:38,159 Speaker 1: your most listened to artists, and like the songs of 432 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,800 Speaker 1: theirs that you listened to the most. My list was 433 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 1: number one All Too Well, number two State of Grace, 434 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:50,959 Speaker 1: and then number three was Macavity from the Taylor Connection. 435 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:55,760 Speaker 1: She was in cats Her It was no was Taylor's Taylor. 436 00:25:57,119 --> 00:26:01,200 Speaker 1: Oh my god? Okay, so play going back to placing 437 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: Bowen in time and when the Red album came out, 438 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 1: what was going on with you? I can so amazing. 439 00:26:08,560 --> 00:26:14,080 Speaker 1: We're recording in midtown. I was working beautiful midtown, beautiful 440 00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:16,720 Speaker 1: exotic midtown. Well, this was this was where I was 441 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 1: at in my life. I just graduated college. I didn't 442 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,800 Speaker 1: know what to do, like I like basically through my 443 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: degree in the trash, my science degree in the trash. 444 00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: Didn't want to go to med school. This was a 445 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:32,239 Speaker 1: period of tumult in my life, and I was like, 446 00:26:32,440 --> 00:26:34,600 Speaker 1: I'll figure it out in the city somehow. I'll just 447 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,920 Speaker 1: work temp jobs. I was working in a temp job 448 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 1: on like fifty seven and Lexington, like so many girls 449 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:44,360 Speaker 1: have done before. You truly in a legacy, but truly 450 00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:48,000 Speaker 1: like lunch breaks you'd walk to like Sutton Place or whatever, 451 00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,640 Speaker 1: go to Essen and like just window shop at Bloomingdale's 452 00:26:52,720 --> 00:26:54,639 Speaker 1: or something like that was like such a I was 453 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,439 Speaker 1: like true, like I was. I didn't know back then, 454 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,960 Speaker 1: but I definitely was depressed at like was going through 455 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,560 Speaker 1: such a rough patch in my life, like really didn't 456 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:05,919 Speaker 1: know what the hell I was gonna do. And like 457 00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:10,720 Speaker 1: something happened around August when we are never getting back 458 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 1: together came out and I was just like, oh my god, 459 00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: this is this is an incredible moment in my life 460 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: that I am listening to this song and loving like 461 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,639 Speaker 1: there's something about there was something finally exciting to me 462 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:25,800 Speaker 1: about Taylor Swift working with Max Martin because I knew 463 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:27,760 Speaker 1: who Max Martin was, and I was just like, I 464 00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 1: think by by that time, people like had an awareness 465 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:31,960 Speaker 1: of who he was, like on a greater on a 466 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:34,480 Speaker 1: larger scale. It's when we kind of started to understand 467 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:40,280 Speaker 1: the producers who were behind exactly exactly, and like it 468 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 1: was just so thrilling to me and we're never something 469 00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,439 Speaker 1: really I don't know why I like confected myself to 470 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 1: this song but I was like, I love this singer now. 471 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: And then in the anticipation for the red release, like 472 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: I would just go back and listen to her old 473 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,160 Speaker 1: stuff and I found it like had an appreciation for that. 474 00:27:57,359 --> 00:28:00,520 Speaker 1: But then literally it was she did almost on Good 475 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:03,800 Speaker 1: Morning America. She released a promotional single like the three 476 00:28:03,840 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 1: weeks before the album came out in October and September, 477 00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,119 Speaker 1: and I think State of Grace was like the second 478 00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:11,439 Speaker 1: one she released. And I listened to the snip of 479 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,600 Speaker 1: snippet of it on the broadcast of Good Morning America, 480 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,719 Speaker 1: and I heard the soaring chorus and I was like, 481 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:21,600 Speaker 1: what this is? What is she doing? This is going 482 00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,800 Speaker 1: to be incredible. And then the song comes out at 483 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,159 Speaker 1: midnight and I listened to it and I go, this 484 00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: is one of the best songs in the last like 485 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:35,560 Speaker 1: five ever and that is still today. It's a transcendent song. 486 00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 1: It hits me when I start listening to it. It 487 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: like starts in my gut, s's way up in my 488 00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 1: chest and explodes out of me. There are car rides 489 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,040 Speaker 1: in Los Angeles where I will just listen to State 490 00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:50,120 Speaker 1: of Grace on repeated sister, and and this morning when 491 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,640 Speaker 1: I was coming to the studio. There is nothing like 492 00:28:52,760 --> 00:28:56,040 Speaker 1: walking to the subway and autumnal New York listening to 493 00:28:56,120 --> 00:29:00,520 Speaker 1: State very it's it's such an autumnal album and then 494 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 1: the song and like I was, and then I have 495 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 1: like a gustatory association with this album too, because it 496 00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:09,160 Speaker 1: was like me walking on my lunch break around Midtown 497 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 1: clutching a pumpkin spice latte listening to I knew you 498 00:29:11,880 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: were trouble, being like, this is fall, this is following 499 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 1: New York, My just salad. She now owns Fault. You know. 500 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 1: I had a sort of similar experience of Taylor, but 501 00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:26,920 Speaker 1: like slightly different because I, like, before Red, I really 502 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,760 Speaker 1: liked individual Taylor songs, Like I was very into our 503 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:34,840 Speaker 1: song yes, um maybe like the rhythm of it or something. 504 00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,560 Speaker 1: So did you start with those albums or did you 505 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,640 Speaker 1: start with Red ASUM know, I started with those albums 506 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:42,800 Speaker 1: when she was first breaking out, but really it was 507 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 1: song based and I was like, not a Taylor Swift fan. 508 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: And then when Red came out, that's when I was like, oh, 509 00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: I like Taylor Swift as an artist. And then nine 510 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,560 Speaker 1: is what radicalized me as a Swifty was what radicalized 511 00:29:58,680 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 1: me as a swift e. UM. I had moved to 512 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,040 Speaker 1: New York in after so I actually didn't listen to 513 00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: the album in real time, surprising no one. UM, I 514 00:30:06,880 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: respect it, thank you. It wasn't not there eventually. I 515 00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,960 Speaker 1: just you know, it's a gap. It it's a gapic 516 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:18,080 Speaker 1: playing catch up culturally. Um. And I turned twenty two 517 00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: and there is a song on this album. Yes, that 518 00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:25,720 Speaker 1: is very good, and I was like, oh my god, 519 00:30:25,840 --> 00:30:30,480 Speaker 1: I'm happy you've reconfused as well. I think her as 520 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,479 Speaker 1: a thirty three year old, thirty two year old singing 521 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: twenty two to us people in our thirties, I think 522 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 1: we will connect, we will, we will reconnect to it. 523 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 1: There's going to be a new I think the same 524 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: way with the Taylor's version fifteen. Yeah, there is that. 525 00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:54,320 Speaker 1: There was this nostalgic aspect like grafted onto it because 526 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:57,800 Speaker 1: of the new lens she's singing through yep, yep. And 527 00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:01,479 Speaker 1: I think I think that is like twenty two is 528 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:05,400 Speaker 1: like a really it does manage to capture something about 529 00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 1: that time in your life. Even for her is just 530 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,520 Speaker 1: like at that point she was some like millionaire like 531 00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:15,160 Speaker 1: recording artist still able to like know, Okay, how can 532 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: I make this somewhat relatable and that's like the store. 533 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,200 Speaker 1: That's the unifying theory of Taylor Swift is that she 534 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,840 Speaker 1: is like constantly trying to shift the folk rum on 535 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: how to make herself relatable but also keep her distance 536 00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: very calibrated. Like I think twenty two is a perfect 537 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,760 Speaker 1: example of that. And I do think, yes, like there 538 00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 1: will be a nostalgiographed onto it when it comes out. 539 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:40,000 Speaker 1: I I think that's very true, and especially like what 540 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 1: you were saying before about how this was the first 541 00:31:41,800 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: time she grappled with her fame, because you know, this 542 00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: album was released um during like the pinnacle of hipster 543 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:54,840 Speaker 1: and and like irony culture, and so I think I 544 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:59,520 Speaker 1: think part of this album was her being like, I 545 00:31:59,520 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 1: know I'm not cool, um and that's fine. I'm gonna 546 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,440 Speaker 1: just like do this anyway. And it's like a very 547 00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: interesting acknowledgement of like try hardness, Like there's like that 548 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:16,600 Speaker 1: Anne Hathaway quality. I mean, but I mean, you know, 549 00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,960 Speaker 1: I was watching I watched The Witches on my flight 550 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: list rewatch multiple rewatches. That's so true, though, And I like, 551 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,680 Speaker 1: I think that's something about like Taylor's ethos that has 552 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,080 Speaker 1: always resonated with me and the thing that I always 553 00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:34,880 Speaker 1: like latch onto and I say this to Rouse all 554 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 1: the time, but like it's like my best and also 555 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: like my worst quality that I try so hard, you know, 556 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: like I think that's in a lot of and you've 557 00:32:42,480 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 1: got so far and in the it doesn't really matter. 558 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,000 Speaker 1: I feel like people our age and I love that 559 00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 1: there's this gen z Swift e like oh my group 560 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,280 Speaker 1: that like truly loves her, and they do make the 561 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: discourse kind of fun, like very funny. This TikTok is 562 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,760 Speaker 1: exclusively Taylor Swift conspiracy theories. Yeah, it's it's Taylor Swift 563 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:27,200 Speaker 1: conspiracy theories about you know, when she's releasing certain things, 564 00:33:27,720 --> 00:33:29,920 Speaker 1: and it's always so funny to see them like the 565 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: next day and they were like, well, we're wrong, but 566 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:37,720 Speaker 1: but also but then they're like, here's how we might 567 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,479 Speaker 1: still not be wrong. Sometimes they're right, sometimes they're right, 568 00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:45,000 Speaker 1: and then they're follow up TikTok and then there's you know, 569 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,680 Speaker 1: like Taylor Swift lesbian conspiracyies UM, and then there's also 570 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:55,000 Speaker 1: the conspiracy theories about um, like the Taylor's version of 571 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,400 Speaker 1: it all. Like a friend was telling me about this 572 00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: theory about the re records and why like sort of 573 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: the way that they're being staggered out and why we're 574 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: getting certain things before other things. And the theory is 575 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:13,960 Speaker 1: that she's releasing the album's that has the songs that 576 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,040 Speaker 1: gets licensed the most first. That's who devalue the catalog 577 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,600 Speaker 1: enough that she can just buy it back and not 578 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,520 Speaker 1: have to rerecord everything. Like that's why she started with Fearless, 579 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,279 Speaker 1: which has you know, like love story, you Belong with 580 00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:32,320 Speaker 1: Me read, you know, has like we're never ever getting 581 00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,640 Speaker 1: back together. She did Wildest Dreams when it was trending 582 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,200 Speaker 1: on TikTok, so she released the Love Story rereleased when 583 00:34:39,200 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: it was on that when it was in an Ami 584 00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,520 Speaker 1: Bryan Reynolds company because their friends are oh yeah yeah yeah, 585 00:34:44,640 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: and even and Wildest Dreams, like first it was in 586 00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,800 Speaker 1: that horse movie movie um, and then it was a 587 00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:56,359 Speaker 1: TikTok sound so um. So I do see a lot 588 00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,640 Speaker 1: of people on TikTok were like, Okay, let's get this 589 00:34:58,719 --> 00:35:02,239 Speaker 1: song trending, so she has to release it. That's so funny. 590 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,560 Speaker 1: Speaking of Kennemy, I feel like a lot of I 591 00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: feel like when I was listening to this and I 592 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,200 Speaker 1: was listening to like aggressiveness and anger. I do feel 593 00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:13,400 Speaker 1: like a lot of this was um a foray into like, 594 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: you know, bad Taylor, like she wants to be Bad Taylor, 595 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: and like I was, I was, you know, looking through 596 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,920 Speaker 1: her you know, history and career ahead of this podcast. 597 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: I was reading that when she was on the she 598 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,000 Speaker 1: was the opening set for like Rascal Flats, which is 599 00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:32,320 Speaker 1: one of her big breaks or whatever, because the person 600 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:35,760 Speaker 1: that they already had scheduled for the opening act played 601 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,000 Speaker 1: too loud and too long on his first set and 602 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:41,440 Speaker 1: they fired him and hired Taylor Swift. And someone from 603 00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: Rascal Flats made a joke to Taylor, and I think 604 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 1: she was like fourteen fifteen or whatever made a joke 605 00:35:46,080 --> 00:35:49,160 Speaker 1: to Taylor and said, you should send him a thank 606 00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:53,160 Speaker 1: you for like your gold record because it's because he 607 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:58,320 Speaker 1: got fired that you whatever. But she did she and 608 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: thank you. Let her to this guy that was fired. 609 00:36:02,360 --> 00:36:05,160 Speaker 1: I bring that up because bad Taylor has always been 610 00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,799 Speaker 1: there and this is this was the first glimmers of 611 00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: reputation Taylor. Yes, so what did you think about because 612 00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:14,480 Speaker 1: like this is for me in cultural memory, this is 613 00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:16,799 Speaker 1: when she did the Harry Styles impression on what was 614 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:19,360 Speaker 1: it the v m A s or the MTV move Right, 615 00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:23,160 Speaker 1: because they dated briefly during the recording of this. I 616 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,839 Speaker 1: do think this is when I became more interested in 617 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: the persona of Taylor because maybe because I was seeing 618 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 1: a lot of people like this was the time of 619 00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: my life where I was like really involved in the 620 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,680 Speaker 1: like underground queer art scene in Brooklyn. I was seeing 621 00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: a lot of people who were mining this for like 622 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: performance art, like earnestly. Earnestly but also psychotically, of course, 623 00:36:47,239 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 1: but it lends itself to that psycho psychosis. Absolutely. Oh yeah, 624 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: that's why swifties are a thing. Yes, are crazy. I'm 625 00:36:56,040 --> 00:36:58,840 Speaker 1: among you. I were crazy. It's the one group I 626 00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:02,440 Speaker 1: will never piss off. I make sure to to tweet 627 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,319 Speaker 1: about being swifty, like at least once a month so 628 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: that when I need them they will be there. And girl, 629 00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:13,160 Speaker 1: I have crossed the swift Wait really yeah, I would 630 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,200 Speaker 1: let to talk about it. Do you want to want 631 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:17,960 Speaker 1: to go first? Mine's like so embarrassing, minds mind stupid 632 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,000 Speaker 1: to mine. I was working with Rows at the time 633 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,480 Speaker 1: out magazine and I it was the year that Casey one, 634 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,560 Speaker 1: you know, Record of the Year, all his awards, and 635 00:37:26,960 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: I was just so in love with her. And at 636 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,239 Speaker 1: the time I was really angry with Taylor, I think 637 00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: for you know, like the reasons that everyone else was, 638 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,319 Speaker 1: but also like maybe there there's some unfoundedness just being 639 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:38,920 Speaker 1: angry because there are a lot of celebrities that don't 640 00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:40,560 Speaker 1: talk about Donald Trump. But she was one of the 641 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: ones where I was just like, come on, girl, like 642 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,120 Speaker 1: what are you doing? And anyways, we don't have to 643 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:46,880 Speaker 1: get into like the documentary of at all and how 644 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 1: she reconciled that. But like, I was very annoyed with Taylor, 645 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:53,839 Speaker 1: and so I posted a meme of of I feel 646 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:58,080 Speaker 1: very innocent and funny meme of um, Kasey must Gray 647 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 1: is pushing Taylor Swift off a building. Um, and I 648 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,280 Speaker 1: remember when you did that, and it did go viral, 649 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,759 Speaker 1: but like in a in it, I think and in 650 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,799 Speaker 1: a mixed review, in a mixed reviews way and Swift ease, 651 00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:13,759 Speaker 1: they I mean, they found me and they found my 652 00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:15,920 Speaker 1: d M. There was blood in the water, they found 653 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: my friends d M, they found my thought. How did 654 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 1: they get They didn't find Social Security? That I know. 655 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: I'm I'm grateful that I've survived. This is the bad 656 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:26,920 Speaker 1: art friend thing where it's like they can subpoena my 657 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:31,640 Speaker 1: mean text, but it was. It was a terrifying moment. 658 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:33,439 Speaker 1: I never deleted the tweets, so you can go ahead 659 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: and retweet and yeah, reinvigorate this, per I mean, that's 660 00:38:37,760 --> 00:38:40,880 Speaker 1: the thing. I'm a tweet deleter. Yeah, I don't know, 661 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:42,799 Speaker 1: want to keep it, not above it. But you know, 662 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:44,680 Speaker 1: it was a part of like just that, that the 663 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 1: fury because at the time, I still I still was 664 00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:49,960 Speaker 1: a Taylor Swift Like. I think that's why the disappointment 665 00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: was so strong and care if you yeah, yeah, I 666 00:38:52,200 --> 00:38:54,719 Speaker 1: remember hearing Matt talk about that, Matt Rogers talking about 667 00:38:54,760 --> 00:38:57,040 Speaker 1: this even like you can be the most visceral Swifty 668 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:00,359 Speaker 1: and still be so disappointed of course. But anyways, longs short, 669 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,840 Speaker 1: I survived. The Swifties did try to get me fired 670 00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: um on on many accounts, the email from out from 671 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 1: all as if they could find we're gonna fire you 672 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 1: from being a bit about a pop star, like excuse 673 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:19,800 Speaker 1: all my podcast network. Anyways, So what was your swift? 674 00:39:20,080 --> 00:39:23,160 Speaker 1: My swifty story is similar. It was election day sixteen 675 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:25,200 Speaker 1: and we're I don't know if you remember, she was 676 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,680 Speaker 1: silent the whole the whole election cycle, but she was 677 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,239 Speaker 1: busy at trying out celebrities on her tour, and then 678 00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:33,080 Speaker 1: on election day she posted a photo on Instagram of 679 00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:36,360 Speaker 1: her winning in line at the polls. And then I 680 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,480 Speaker 1: think I tweeted, yeah, I quote tweeted or I replied, 681 00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: I was like toot too little, too fucking late, or 682 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,400 Speaker 1: something like that, something so stupid um. And then of 683 00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:48,920 Speaker 1: course the Swifties saw it and then like tore into me. 684 00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: They didn't fucking go through my ship though, ducks you. 685 00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:54,800 Speaker 1: But I like made the mistake of replying to a 686 00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:56,880 Speaker 1: lot of them and being like you're literally twelve, you 687 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:02,200 Speaker 1: do not step to this out a ever ever. I 688 00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,920 Speaker 1: know it's such a miscalculation. I mean, I like I 689 00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:07,759 Speaker 1: didn't know then, we did not know. I mean I 690 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 1: will say that, like, I think the Swifties need to 691 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:13,960 Speaker 1: own this actually, because if she is acknowledging it in 692 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,960 Speaker 1: like her interviews and her press that like, yeah, I 693 00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,120 Speaker 1: should have spoken up more during the election cycle than 694 00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,640 Speaker 1: like that's it, Like you have to, like Swifties have to, 695 00:40:21,719 --> 00:40:23,920 Speaker 1: like we all have to like own that. And I 696 00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: feel somewhat vindicated, And I'm sure I don't know if 697 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,799 Speaker 1: you do too. I felt very vindicated because she kind 698 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:32,160 Speaker 1: of just proved herself like wrong over and over again. 699 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:37,000 Speaker 1: And then she she finally disavowed Trump hours before she 700 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,480 Speaker 1: released her Lover Her Right, and I was like, yeah, 701 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:43,279 Speaker 1: right under the wire. But like, I don't know, I 702 00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:47,240 Speaker 1: feel differently about it now, but but like I feel like, um, 703 00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:51,719 Speaker 1: I remember when um the what was like the worst song, 704 00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: the me song me, and like so I had to 705 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,120 Speaker 1: block it on Spotify so it wouldn't come up when 706 00:40:59,160 --> 00:41:02,000 Speaker 1: I listened to I do miss hey kids spelling and 707 00:41:02,040 --> 00:41:05,960 Speaker 1: stunt anyway, it's spelling, It's fun. Yeah. But then when 708 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:08,080 Speaker 1: she did like the whole the Pride video that like 709 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:14,479 Speaker 1: kind of like it's like Google, lgbt Q celebrities filled 710 00:41:14,480 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 1: it whatever, and uum I remember tweeting about that and 711 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,239 Speaker 1: trying to nuance it and being like, what is this 712 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,719 Speaker 1: like opportunistic bullshit? I said it in a much more 713 00:41:23,760 --> 00:41:27,080 Speaker 1: salient and incisive way, of course, but like Taylor Swift 714 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:31,480 Speaker 1: fans would like they literally tweeted like like fact, fucking 715 00:41:31,560 --> 00:41:34,960 Speaker 1: faggot whatever, And then I would go to their like, um, 716 00:41:35,400 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 1: go to their bio, and the link in their bio 717 00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:42,360 Speaker 1: would be like the equality Like um, it was the 718 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:46,760 Speaker 1: Equality Act of linked to their like in their bio 719 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:48,600 Speaker 1: calling me a fagot, and I was like, this is 720 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:52,160 Speaker 1: this there's just no self there's no self awareness. I 721 00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: think it is swift um. And also this does radiate 722 00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:58,839 Speaker 1: out to all of the stand um stands do the 723 00:41:58,920 --> 00:42:04,400 Speaker 1: same thing as It's just like they they have to 724 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:09,319 Speaker 1: love their faith in a way that is destructive, that 725 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:12,759 Speaker 1: is destructive and does not allow for nuance. Because and 726 00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,000 Speaker 1: I used to find this a lot as a gaga 727 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,200 Speaker 1: Stan and you and I have talked about this before. Um, 728 00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:20,880 Speaker 1: you know, like part of part of my like loving 729 00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,279 Speaker 1: an artist is being critical of them. And it's unfortunate 730 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,160 Speaker 1: that especially a lot of these young stands, I feel 731 00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:30,960 Speaker 1: like they have to love these pop stars who will 732 00:42:31,000 --> 00:42:34,160 Speaker 1: never be perfect in a way in which they are 733 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: always right about everything and they can never be critical 734 00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:42,320 Speaker 1: about them at all, and anyone who is must literally die. Yeah, okay, 735 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 1: that's so funny that you said that. I unfortunately searched 736 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 1: Taylor on like my Twitter and I found this. Yes, 737 00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:53,400 Speaker 1: this is this is the This is a classic swiftymeme. 738 00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:58,040 Speaker 1: Someone who's handles at Taylor ts so an underscore, I 739 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,000 Speaker 1: want to kill myself. They tweeted, and then and then 740 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:04,120 Speaker 1: the person replying, wait to lover drops please, we can't 741 00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,320 Speaker 1: lose sales. That's a nice Yeah, well as is the 742 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:12,080 Speaker 1: Swifty who went to prison because she because she refused 743 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:17,839 Speaker 1: to join the Israeli army. Oh my god. Well then 744 00:43:17,880 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: we obviously are on hurt. We were, yeah, yeah, because 745 00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: we I mean, this podcast supports BDS. Yes, comrade, Swift, Comrade, 746 00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:32,440 Speaker 1: there is an overlap between like just a hardcore radical 747 00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:37,520 Speaker 1: socialists and swifties. Well, I mean Red Red Red the 748 00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,719 Speaker 1: communist and she was letting us know along with a 749 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:47,360 Speaker 1: little wink or or it's like the log having Republican anthelm, 750 00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:54,080 Speaker 1: maybe being facetious, but you could be right. You could 751 00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,640 Speaker 1: be right about it. So how do you think Taylor 752 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,919 Speaker 1: changed after Red? I think she changed in every way, 753 00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,000 Speaker 1: Like this is what I'm saying, Like there was I 754 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,000 Speaker 1: think there was this line and the people will will 755 00:44:05,040 --> 00:44:10,799 Speaker 1: say that it's I think like it read. And so 756 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:12,920 Speaker 1: much has been said about how Taylor Swift is a 757 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,400 Speaker 1: very good quote unquote business person as far as like 758 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:19,840 Speaker 1: laying out a strategy. But I do think this was 759 00:44:19,840 --> 00:44:22,120 Speaker 1: a conscious choice for her to be like, let me 760 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,600 Speaker 1: do a transitional album. I mean, let me not fully crossover, 761 00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:33,239 Speaker 1: yet let me like persuasively let everybody know that I 762 00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,680 Speaker 1: can do the pop thing by releasing this album that 763 00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 1: is like a very carefully calibrated blend between like country 764 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: and pop and some almost like country. Paris will site, Well, 765 00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:44,480 Speaker 1: she was always pop, but I feel like this was 766 00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:47,239 Speaker 1: like the album that she needed to put out in 767 00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:50,520 Speaker 1: order to like get to version of Taylor Swift. But 768 00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,320 Speaker 1: she didn't sell out this, like she didn't like half 769 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,640 Speaker 1: asked the fact that this was a transitional album. She 770 00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,400 Speaker 1: like really poured everything into it. And I think I 771 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,720 Speaker 1: think it's I really think it's one of the best albums. 772 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:06,279 Speaker 1: And where does it fall for you? Okay on the 773 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 1: on your ranking of Taylor Swift album this is Wild, 774 00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:19,840 Speaker 1: I would I will say it's number two after after 775 00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:29,680 Speaker 1: being edged out by Reputation. No, I was not. I know, 776 00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:34,520 Speaker 1: I know people a second everybody everybody hold on I 777 00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,080 Speaker 1: think reputation. I listened back to and I go, this 778 00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,239 Speaker 1: is the only album where I think she's making like 779 00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:44,200 Speaker 1: an observation about society or about the world or about herself, 780 00:45:44,239 --> 00:45:48,480 Speaker 1: Like I just it is it isn't there's an observation 781 00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: that's like ingrained in the entire thing. Red is like 782 00:45:53,000 --> 00:45:56,600 Speaker 1: this like beautiful maximalist thing of like let me try 783 00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,640 Speaker 1: all of these things at once and you're and it 784 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:03,520 Speaker 1: will work. Um. And so that's why I like read 785 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:06,719 Speaker 1: we we don't have to get too much into reputation 786 00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:08,879 Speaker 1: and why I love it. But I do fucking love 787 00:46:08,880 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: that album despite hating it when it first came out, 788 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:13,960 Speaker 1: being like this is crazy. This is for me, of 789 00:46:14,000 --> 00:46:18,680 Speaker 1: all the Taylor albums, like, besides Folklore, Reputation feels like 790 00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,200 Speaker 1: the one that I is the most lived in for me. Yes, 791 00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:25,719 Speaker 1: like it was such I spent so much time with 792 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:28,399 Speaker 1: it when it came out. It does not quite make 793 00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:32,040 Speaker 1: it to the top of the list for me. And 794 00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,279 Speaker 1: I want to know, do you think has Folklore? Have 795 00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,560 Speaker 1: Folklore and Evermore been out long enough for you to 796 00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:40,479 Speaker 1: place them? I think so because I think I've gotten 797 00:46:40,520 --> 00:46:44,040 Speaker 1: to that point as well, only just recently. Yeah, and 798 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:45,680 Speaker 1: but we talked about this, so you're more of an 799 00:46:45,719 --> 00:46:48,120 Speaker 1: Evermore girl. No, I'm more of a Folklore girl. God 800 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 1: blessed and Folklore is my favorite Taylor Swift album. Folklore 801 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,080 Speaker 1: is up there. It's it's it's the three our reputation, 802 00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,520 Speaker 1: Read and Folklore just like very closely orbiting each other. 803 00:46:59,719 --> 00:47:04,080 Speaker 1: For me, it's Folklore red and very good. I love 804 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:10,440 Speaker 1: so much, excellent album. I think Read and stuff for 805 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:12,160 Speaker 1: this thing where they dip in the second half a 806 00:47:12,239 --> 00:47:16,200 Speaker 1: little bit too much. Sure Folklore is like virtuosic and 807 00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:20,080 Speaker 1: likes such. It was so like she really stuck the 808 00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:23,359 Speaker 1: landing on it, and like what an incredible album reputation 809 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:27,120 Speaker 1: is Like I'll killer no filler to me, every no 810 00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:30,960 Speaker 1: truly no skips and it's about like fifteen tracks, like 811 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:34,520 Speaker 1: and it says something about like wow, like the only 812 00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,440 Speaker 1: thing you have at the end of the day is yourself, 813 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:38,520 Speaker 1: even when you're someone like Taylor Swift and you have 814 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,399 Speaker 1: all like in you know you or like when when 815 00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,960 Speaker 1: people are fucking like trying to tear you down, like 816 00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:50,239 Speaker 1: you have to have this like solid, solid sense of 817 00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:55,480 Speaker 1: self in order to survive something that seems completely unprocessable. 818 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:58,720 Speaker 1: Like I think, I don't know, this is so gross, 819 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:00,359 Speaker 1: but I listened to that album now and I think 820 00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:05,640 Speaker 1: this is like the this is the most astute meditation 821 00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:08,040 Speaker 1: on fame that I've ever like really encountered, and like 822 00:48:08,120 --> 00:48:11,320 Speaker 1: I'll relate to it in that way a little bit um, 823 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,959 Speaker 1: but anyway that those are my three. I also feel 824 00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:17,200 Speaker 1: like her like, um, the kind of thing that she 825 00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,440 Speaker 1: was drawing into question with the album about like fame 826 00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:23,680 Speaker 1: and like how um we consume celebrity. I think that 827 00:48:23,760 --> 00:48:26,680 Speaker 1: the critical response to reputation and how people are kind 828 00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:29,399 Speaker 1: of immediately flop. Yeah, they kind of proved her right 829 00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:35,399 Speaker 1: exactly exactly. I mean, because like I feel like when 830 00:48:35,400 --> 00:48:38,800 Speaker 1: I listened to some was like my gateway drug and 831 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,680 Speaker 1: too Taylor. I guess technically twenty two, if I were 832 00:48:41,719 --> 00:48:44,560 Speaker 1: to like metaphorize this, okay, twenty two is like me 833 00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:48,000 Speaker 1: having a little bit of weed part of somebody's like 834 00:48:48,080 --> 00:48:51,359 Speaker 1: high school party. And then in nineteen in nineteen nine 835 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:52,960 Speaker 1: is like in the boom boom room and I'm like 836 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 1: I'm doing coked. Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah. 837 00:48:55,719 --> 00:49:00,520 Speaker 1: And so when love that metaphor yeah, thank you, thank you, 838 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:05,239 Speaker 1: um blank space was like I don't know, goodbye. Have 839 00:49:05,360 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 1: I ever listened to a song that many times in 840 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,640 Speaker 1: a row. I remember when the second the song came out, 841 00:49:11,920 --> 00:49:17,040 Speaker 1: I was late to something and I stood outside already 842 00:49:17,080 --> 00:49:20,640 Speaker 1: like fifteen, stood outside to watch the video on my phone. 843 00:49:20,760 --> 00:49:23,680 Speaker 1: It was it really was. And the thing about that 844 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,960 Speaker 1: video was the way she drew so much even more 845 00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:30,719 Speaker 1: She's always been like drawn self awareness into her work, 846 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,359 Speaker 1: but that was a moment where she was like, this 847 00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:34,279 Speaker 1: is the caricature of me, and I know you think 848 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:36,359 Speaker 1: it's funny and I think it's funny too, and that 849 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,520 Speaker 1: grew into like reputation, you know. I think Blank Spaces 850 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,320 Speaker 1: when she reached the singularity, when it was like, oh, 851 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:47,319 Speaker 1: everyone has heard this song on this video and do 852 00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:50,880 Speaker 1: you remember the there was like a Grammy performance she did. 853 00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 1: I was just about to bring this up and it's 854 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:55,960 Speaker 1: such a good fucking performance. Yeah, I was, okay, So 855 00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:58,680 Speaker 1: I was actually talking about one of the earlier performances 856 00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:01,960 Speaker 1: of Blank Space she did where she was like levitating 857 00:50:01,960 --> 00:50:06,200 Speaker 1: and there was like fire. Yeah, wait, what performance are 858 00:50:06,200 --> 00:50:08,200 Speaker 1: you talking about, though, I'm talking about Grammy Museum where 859 00:50:08,200 --> 00:50:13,640 Speaker 1: she's on the acoustic guitar. Well that's also I'm sorry, yeah, 860 00:50:13,680 --> 00:50:15,960 Speaker 1: but but let's talk about that because that performance of 861 00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:21,040 Speaker 1: Wildest Dreams on the electric guitar, and she she she 862 00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:24,400 Speaker 1: had never sounded better, and I think that that's none 863 00:50:24,440 --> 00:50:28,080 Speaker 1: of her top vocal performances. She's the vocalist, she is 864 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: without a doubt and like truly, like I also just 865 00:50:32,120 --> 00:50:35,080 Speaker 1: love the last full minute of twenty two. Sorry I'm 866 00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:36,600 Speaker 1: jumping all over the place, but the last fumnute of 867 00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:39,600 Speaker 1: twenty two is just her belting her fucking tits off, 868 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,160 Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, yeah, like just like it's like any 869 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:46,080 Speaker 1: like just going crazy for a full minute, like like, 870 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,319 Speaker 1: go back and listen to it. The last minute of 871 00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:50,520 Speaker 1: this four minute long song. A quarter of this song, 872 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:54,440 Speaker 1: the last quarter of this song was heard just fat wailing. Anyway. 873 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,799 Speaker 1: What do we think? Grammy performance? Amazing? I don't know 874 00:50:57,840 --> 00:50:59,359 Speaker 1: how much more I can say about it. It's just 875 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,799 Speaker 1: like so it's so cathartic to watch, and um, it 876 00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:07,080 Speaker 1: feels like a triumphant moment for her, such a triumph 877 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,640 Speaker 1: and her in that like black turtleneck with the guitar 878 00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:14,000 Speaker 1: and she her her hair was so good, speaking of 879 00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:17,319 Speaker 1: her hair was red when she got bangs. Red was 880 00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:19,759 Speaker 1: when she got was red, was when she si yes, 881 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,640 Speaker 1: red was when she straightened her hair and then got bangs. Yes, 882 00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:28,880 Speaker 1: god wait that is oh my gosh, yeah, the ramification 883 00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:33,239 Speaker 1: truly getting bangs and straightening her hair and she has 884 00:51:33,280 --> 00:51:38,200 Speaker 1: had bangs ever since. In the same timespan where Joni 885 00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:43,160 Speaker 1: Mitchell said you should fucking die. Um, that was really hard. 886 00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:45,080 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm kind of Joonie is like one of 887 00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:47,080 Speaker 1: my be all end alls, and I'm really disappointed at her. 888 00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:50,880 Speaker 1: Well it's like, but I think, but you can't be 889 00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:55,880 Speaker 1: like that girl. But I think she but like it 890 00:51:55,920 --> 00:51:58,879 Speaker 1: does like play into the narrative of Taylor Swift, which 891 00:51:58,920 --> 00:52:00,799 Speaker 1: is that even though she didn't get that like co 892 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:05,279 Speaker 1: sign from Joni Mitchell, Red is still her blue, and 893 00:52:05,480 --> 00:52:07,640 Speaker 1: it is still her It is still her blue, and 894 00:52:07,680 --> 00:52:10,919 Speaker 1: it is as I think impactful for people of our 895 00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:15,200 Speaker 1: generation as Blue probably was for people of that generation. 896 00:52:16,239 --> 00:52:18,319 Speaker 1: I think, so, I really think so. I mean it's 897 00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:20,840 Speaker 1: like Blue. I would I would honestly say that like 898 00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,879 Speaker 1: control by scissors, like our generations Blue. That's real, that's 899 00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,239 Speaker 1: really true. That's really true. But like Red is just 900 00:52:28,320 --> 00:52:31,680 Speaker 1: this like Red is like epic. I don't think Blue 901 00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:37,719 Speaker 1: is like epic. Red is very restrained. Red is like expansive. Yeah, 902 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,319 Speaker 1: but but also like what Red does is like her 903 00:52:42,200 --> 00:52:46,840 Speaker 1: songwriting has never been better. Besides maybe like folks, I 904 00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:50,040 Speaker 1: do think some of the songwriting on folklore is truly 905 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:54,000 Speaker 1: still like poetic. But some of my favorite. I think 906 00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,840 Speaker 1: the way that she talked about herself and her relationships 907 00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,480 Speaker 1: in the lyricism of it is incredible. And she was literally, 908 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:06,719 Speaker 1: like even before she turned years old, writing these songs, 909 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,000 Speaker 1: like writing a song like Treacherous where the structure is 910 00:53:10,280 --> 00:53:15,800 Speaker 1: verse mini chorus, verse, mini chorus, full like post chorus, slash, 911 00:53:15,920 --> 00:53:20,520 Speaker 1: like bridge ish into like another mini course into like 912 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,359 Speaker 1: an even bigger post course, like I love Differ so 913 00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:26,600 Speaker 1: much did I say this already? It's an important album 914 00:53:26,640 --> 00:53:30,520 Speaker 1: because it was important for Taylor in that it made 915 00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:34,239 Speaker 1: Taylor like who she is now. It's when she crystallized 916 00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:40,320 Speaker 1: the final form final form. Sorry I'm being self referential awful, 917 00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,719 Speaker 1: but like I again, I did not care for I 918 00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:46,840 Speaker 1: was ambivalent about Taylor Swift until read and then something 919 00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:48,640 Speaker 1: just clipped where I was like, I'm going to be 920 00:53:48,680 --> 00:54:10,719 Speaker 1: obsessed with you for the rest of my life. Well, 921 00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:14,200 Speaker 1: you know, we've talked a lot today about how formative 922 00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:18,319 Speaker 1: the album Red was UM, and we thought it would 923 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,840 Speaker 1: be fun to talk, you know, like we talk a 924 00:54:20,880 --> 00:54:23,760 Speaker 1: lot on this podcast about things that were really important 925 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:26,719 Speaker 1: to us in our childhoods UM and how we like 926 00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:28,759 Speaker 1: became the people we are, So we thought it would 927 00:54:28,800 --> 00:54:32,479 Speaker 1: be fun to have you tell us about the Bow 928 00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:36,400 Speaker 1: and Yang starter pack? What are the items the things 929 00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,400 Speaker 1: in your arsenal as a kid that you know you 930 00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:41,719 Speaker 1: either always need to have a round or define who 931 00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:45,600 Speaker 1: you were. This is this is a really perfect framework 932 00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:51,360 Speaker 1: of a question of a prompt. Um, I will say 933 00:54:51,719 --> 00:54:55,279 Speaker 1: random like a sampling. It's like, let's talk about love 934 00:54:55,320 --> 00:55:02,680 Speaker 1: by Celine dion Um, It's m a game Boy with 935 00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:08,799 Speaker 1: like Kirby Tilton, Tumble and Pokemon Blue, Pokemon Crystal, and 936 00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:13,320 Speaker 1: then like Bagel bites from Costco. You're a Costco girl, yeah, 937 00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:18,319 Speaker 1: Costco girl, and then a girl oh yes, yes, yes 938 00:55:18,360 --> 00:55:21,800 Speaker 1: of course, and then um, how many how many items 939 00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:25,800 Speaker 1: do people typically bottle off? You're the first one, okay, 940 00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,480 Speaker 1: as they want? Those are three? Those are those are 941 00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:31,920 Speaker 1: the three pillars Bagel Bites, game Boy and and and Selene. 942 00:55:32,040 --> 00:55:35,279 Speaker 1: But then like it's it's honestly like it was. It 943 00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,160 Speaker 1: was a lot of like me trying to like draw 944 00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,080 Speaker 1: my own and original anime characters and like having no 945 00:55:42,120 --> 00:55:43,920 Speaker 1: one to show them too, because it was like I 946 00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:46,839 Speaker 1: knew it was a little too embarrassing, like having some 947 00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:50,640 Speaker 1: shame already built into like my work and my output 948 00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:53,960 Speaker 1: is like truly, like it is like since day one, 949 00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:57,319 Speaker 1: like a part of like since day one, you had 950 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,000 Speaker 1: to have learned at some point drawing. Yeah, I love 951 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,520 Speaker 1: to draw. No, no no, no, I mean the shame, the shame. 952 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,840 Speaker 1: Oh sure, sure were cultured into shame. But like I 953 00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:10,000 Speaker 1: would like draw stuff and then show it to people 954 00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:11,480 Speaker 1: at school, and for a period of time it was 955 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,759 Speaker 1: like cool that I could do this, and then it 956 00:56:13,920 --> 00:56:15,680 Speaker 1: was like and then it was just it would just 957 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:19,600 Speaker 1: literally be me like getting lost for hours just at 958 00:56:19,640 --> 00:56:22,000 Speaker 1: my desk with like reams of paper that my dad 959 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:26,279 Speaker 1: would bring home from his office, um, and I would 960 00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:29,239 Speaker 1: just draw characters, cut them out, put them in like 961 00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:32,360 Speaker 1: a photo album with like a plastic film, and I 962 00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,840 Speaker 1: would just flipped through it and like beat out a 963 00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:37,759 Speaker 1: whole season of like some anime that would never get 964 00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:39,680 Speaker 1: made in my head. But that was like that was 965 00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:41,919 Speaker 1: like a writer early thing where it was like, oh, 966 00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:47,040 Speaker 1: I'm like your story, story telling, world building, yeah exactly. Okay, 967 00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:49,520 Speaker 1: sorry to expose us, but did you know that Rose 968 00:56:49,520 --> 00:56:54,160 Speaker 1: and I were also closeted childhood drawers. We were so 969 00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:59,279 Speaker 1: much anime stuff mythology. Huh, Like you know who else? 970 00:56:59,280 --> 00:57:00,960 Speaker 1: Patty Harrison and I think there's like there's like we 971 00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,200 Speaker 1: all need to come out of the shadows with this 972 00:57:06,239 --> 00:57:10,759 Speaker 1: and make an adult cartoon series, which no one's ever done. 973 00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:13,200 Speaker 1: But but fran is still a pretty good artist. He 974 00:57:13,239 --> 00:57:16,040 Speaker 1: actually drew the mock up for our like our photo 975 00:57:16,080 --> 00:57:21,560 Speaker 1: shoot like cover art that we're doing. So I my 976 00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:28,720 Speaker 1: starter pack would be like Jagged Little Pill. The album. Um, 977 00:57:28,720 --> 00:57:31,880 Speaker 1: it would be some book and I'm going to say 978 00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:35,720 Speaker 1: right now, since it's spooky season, it would be Curses Incorporated, 979 00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,120 Speaker 1: which is an anthology series of like modern of like 980 00:57:40,280 --> 00:57:44,720 Speaker 1: modern spooky stories about a boy who like buys hexes online. 981 00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:49,919 Speaker 1: I'm cool and um oh, and then it would be 982 00:57:50,120 --> 00:57:53,520 Speaker 1: the afghan that my grandma nit me that I used 983 00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,120 Speaker 1: to wrap around myself as a dress. Was like I'm 984 00:57:57,160 --> 00:57:59,320 Speaker 1: a girl and I used to be Dorothy from the 985 00:57:59,360 --> 00:58:04,000 Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz. There you go. Wow, I love that. Okay. 986 00:58:04,160 --> 00:58:09,240 Speaker 1: Mine was definitely um Hotel Paper by Michelle Brand checked 987 00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:11,760 Speaker 1: out from the library. I didn't even own it. Oh 988 00:58:11,840 --> 00:58:13,720 Speaker 1: my god, We're going to have to do a Michelle 989 00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:15,920 Speaker 1: Branch episode. Oh yeah, without a doubt that she was 990 00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:18,640 Speaker 1: a big part of my secular awakening when I was 991 00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,760 Speaker 1: like I discovered that everyone else wasn't listening to like 992 00:58:21,840 --> 00:58:25,320 Speaker 1: Christian Christian reliant kay and it actually people also listen 993 00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:27,880 Speaker 1: to Michelle Branch. Oh my god, it's so important. I 994 00:58:27,920 --> 00:58:30,280 Speaker 1: didn't know you were a Christian rock person for a second. 995 00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:35,000 Speaker 1: I know the words to almost every single, every single 996 00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,960 Speaker 1: Relying Case song in their first five albums. I've never 997 00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,520 Speaker 1: talked to you about my switch foot phase in like 998 00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:44,160 Speaker 1: middle school, high school, I had a switch with it 999 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,200 Speaker 1: was it was just that it was the it was 1000 00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,400 Speaker 1: right after a watch to remember when like they really 1001 00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:52,680 Speaker 1: were like big a cross overstream. It was there red. 1002 00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:55,960 Speaker 1: It was there red, Remember there Red? But then you 1003 00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,960 Speaker 1: know what I like, I was obsessed. I thought, you know, 1004 00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:00,960 Speaker 1: I thought the song to any four, which is the 1005 00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,280 Speaker 1: last song off of that album, that was like the 1006 00:59:03,320 --> 00:59:06,640 Speaker 1: best song of all time. I would and we were 1007 00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:09,760 Speaker 1: like twelve, Well one day I'll be twenty four and 1008 00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:11,400 Speaker 1: this is going to be so meaningful. And then you 1009 00:59:11,400 --> 00:59:14,440 Speaker 1: turned twenty four and you were like Switch, which I 1010 00:59:14,440 --> 00:59:16,080 Speaker 1: mean like the fact that like we're like shipping on 1011 00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:19,720 Speaker 1: twenty four by Switch, but we're still like beautiful revering Taylor. 1012 00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:23,640 Speaker 1: That is the power of Taylor Taylor. Yeah, I mean, 1013 00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:28,000 Speaker 1: like twenty one. Yes, is there? I don't know If 1014 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,000 Speaker 1: there an, I don't know. I'm trying to do numerology 1015 00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,360 Speaker 1: with no with no landing point. Anyways. Also, in my 1016 00:59:33,440 --> 00:59:37,800 Speaker 1: started back Um Harvest moon On, Oh my gosh, I 1017 00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:41,520 Speaker 1: loved like um games without any conflict at yes, farming 1018 00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:43,960 Speaker 1: game if you don't know it, Um. I was an 1019 00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:47,880 Speaker 1: oregonmy kid. Instead of having friends, I did Oregon. I 1020 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,360 Speaker 1: wanted to do Oregon. I could make paper cranes really well, 1021 00:59:52,080 --> 00:59:53,760 Speaker 1: so could on. I can make a lot of things. 1022 00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,800 Speaker 1: I could still make a paper crane. Today had stacks 1023 00:59:56,920 --> 00:59:59,840 Speaker 1: of Oregony books and I had an oregonmy party, which 1024 00:59:59,840 --> 01:00:02,080 Speaker 1: is it was really sad. I invited three of my 1025 01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:04,680 Speaker 1: crushes and they all came. That's cute. So you you 1026 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:09,080 Speaker 1: were into video games, Yeah, I don't. I don't like 1027 01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:12,680 Speaker 1: games of any kind. I respect. That's kind of surprising 1028 01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,240 Speaker 1: to me because you were so into like fantasy and 1029 01:00:15,280 --> 01:00:17,360 Speaker 1: sci fi and so many things that come with the 1030 01:00:17,400 --> 01:00:21,320 Speaker 1: culture of gaming. Yeah, but I'm I like the actual story. 1031 01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:24,600 Speaker 1: I don't want to have to like play I would 1032 01:00:24,800 --> 01:00:27,120 Speaker 1: I would rather read a book than play a game. Sure, 1033 01:00:27,280 --> 01:00:30,080 Speaker 1: but now what now? What? Now? What I know some 1034 01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:33,160 Speaker 1: people do is they'll just watch a playthrough on like YouTube, 1035 01:00:33,360 --> 01:00:35,040 Speaker 1: or they'll just watch the cut scenes of a game. 1036 01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:37,080 Speaker 1: So I might just start doing this now with like, 1037 01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:39,240 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I haven't played the Last of Us, and 1038 01:00:39,280 --> 01:00:42,000 Speaker 1: I'm like, I need to know what this game is 1039 01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:43,680 Speaker 1: and I need to like I might just like sit 1040 01:00:43,680 --> 01:00:46,320 Speaker 1: down and watch like an eight hour play through anyway, Sorry, 1041 01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:50,840 Speaker 1: why not when it sounds fun? Do you think Taylor games? No, okay, 1042 01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:55,080 Speaker 1: and that's okay, she's too disciplined. Like Taylor is the 1043 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:58,120 Speaker 1: girl that watches her boyfriend play video games. You know, 1044 01:00:58,160 --> 01:01:01,760 Speaker 1: that's like a whole I think. I think Joe is 1045 01:01:01,800 --> 01:01:05,280 Speaker 1: like in his dog crate with the with the Nintendo switch, 1046 01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:08,720 Speaker 1: and Taylor is somewhere else. Oh I see, yeah, to 1047 01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:11,320 Speaker 1: get the kid that the thing. Yeah. The only other 1048 01:01:11,320 --> 01:01:13,120 Speaker 1: thing I could think of, maybe that Rose and I 1049 01:01:13,200 --> 01:01:16,160 Speaker 1: have in common is um Delaire's Big Book of Greekness. 1050 01:01:16,920 --> 01:01:21,320 Speaker 1: That's definitely one of the past things that I started drawing. 1051 01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:24,040 Speaker 1: It's one of my first like sexual awakenings. Remember being 1052 01:01:24,080 --> 01:01:27,320 Speaker 1: horny for my own drawings. Yes, oh my god. I 1053 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,480 Speaker 1: would draw like naked dude, yeah, and I'd be like, oh, 1054 01:01:30,520 --> 01:01:33,000 Speaker 1: oh no, is this this is going to be a problem, 1055 01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,080 Speaker 1: like I remember wow. Also when my starter pack would 1056 01:01:37,080 --> 01:01:43,000 Speaker 1: be Muppet Treasure Island the movie um and and um 1057 01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:47,000 Speaker 1: a um. And this is not like a specific action figure, 1058 01:01:47,120 --> 01:01:48,800 Speaker 1: but this is something that I used to do with 1059 01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:51,240 Speaker 1: my action figures. I might have told you this before. 1060 01:01:51,560 --> 01:01:53,920 Speaker 1: When I would get like an action figure as a 1061 01:01:53,960 --> 01:01:57,000 Speaker 1: gift for my birthday or for Hanukah, I would open 1062 01:01:57,040 --> 01:01:59,720 Speaker 1: it up, you know, and be like yeah. And then 1063 01:01:59,760 --> 01:02:02,960 Speaker 1: that night I would um put it back in the packaging, 1064 01:02:03,040 --> 01:02:05,000 Speaker 1: tape it back up, and wrap it again so that 1065 01:02:05,080 --> 01:02:10,280 Speaker 1: I could open it again. But that's sick, that's erotic, 1066 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,440 Speaker 1: because for me, it wasn't about the thing itself. It 1067 01:02:14,520 --> 01:02:17,640 Speaker 1: was about the experience of like opening it and the 1068 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,080 Speaker 1: thrill of that. But honestly, like very developed of you 1069 01:02:21,360 --> 01:02:24,000 Speaker 1: to like pinpoint that as like the moment, like the 1070 01:02:24,360 --> 01:02:27,720 Speaker 1: thrilling moment, the moment of pleasure or whatever, and then 1071 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,200 Speaker 1: you recreate that and restage that like that is. But 1072 01:02:30,200 --> 01:02:34,280 Speaker 1: it was never the same. It was never the wow. 1073 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,160 Speaker 1: I Love Love and I'm I'm sitting with two Henson 1074 01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:42,280 Speaker 1: heads YouTube YouTube. Both loved them Apo Love, Miss Piggy 1075 01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,720 Speaker 1: Love Kermit. I had a Kermit stuffed animal that like 1076 01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:52,960 Speaker 1: I ran ragged. Kermit's hot, Kermit's hot, Kermit is hot. Yeah, Kermit, 1077 01:02:53,760 --> 01:03:00,920 Speaker 1: I'm doing the Kermit Arms. Listeners, you can tweet us 1078 01:03:00,920 --> 01:03:03,360 Speaker 1: your takes on this week's episode. I'm actually really excited 1079 01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,080 Speaker 1: to know what y'all think of the podcast. Rose. Are 1080 01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,640 Speaker 1: you excited? Rose? Yes? But only if it's positive? Okay, 1081 01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:12,080 Speaker 1: no critiquet. I'm your co host fran Toronto. You can 1082 01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:14,720 Speaker 1: find me at Franz Squish co on any social media 1083 01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:16,840 Speaker 1: you want. I'm Rose damn You. You can find me 1084 01:03:16,880 --> 01:03:19,600 Speaker 1: out Rose Damn you on Twitter and Instagram. You can 1085 01:03:19,640 --> 01:03:22,240 Speaker 1: subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere you listen to podcasts, 1086 01:03:22,280 --> 01:03:25,120 Speaker 1: and definitely leave us a review because it helps brand 1087 01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,720 Speaker 1: new podcast quite a lot. Like a Virgin is an 1088 01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,400 Speaker 1: i Heeart Radio production. Our producer is Phoebe Unter, with 1089 01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:34,200 Speaker 1: support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Jess Crane Chitch and 1090 01:03:34,520 --> 01:03:39,320 Speaker 1: Nikki Utour. Until next week, See You Later Visions Chow. 1091 01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,960 Speaker 1: Our producer Phoebe has told us that our podcast is 1092 01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:51,560 Speaker 1: a Scorpio Sun Aquarius moon leave ro rising. So do 1093 01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:53,720 Speaker 1: with that? Why you will do that? Why you will 1094 01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,040 Speaker 1: leave a comment? If you have an opinion about it, 1095 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:06,720 Speaker 1: Diam