Speaker 1: Earlier this year, there were tons of stories about businesses
Speaker 1: handing out big bonuses to retain talent, massive pay rises
Speaker 1: for people willing to switch firms, and people leaving work
Speaker 1: all together. In fact, that last bit even got its
Speaker 1: own nickname, the Great Resignation. But with all the economic
Speaker 1: headwinds the country is facing surging cost of living rising inflation.
Speaker 1: A top British CEO recently told me he felt that
Speaker 1: the Great Resignation was now going to actually turn into
Speaker 1: the Great Sacking. We've been hearing earnings from the banks,
Speaker 1: some reporting lower profits than they have done for many years,
Speaker 1: Golden Sacks saying that they were going to slow their
Speaker 1: hiring spree. They're also reintroducing their annual performance reviews where
Speaker 1: they culled the under performers, and that got us thinking,
Speaker 1: I mean, are the employees about to actually lose their vantage.
Speaker 1: I'm David Merritt in the London studio and this is
Speaker 1: in the City Bloomberg's podcast, connecting you to the stories
Speaker 1: at the heart of the City of London, and so
Speaker 1: to give a broader sense of the jobs market across
Speaker 1: the UK, I spoke to James Read, the CEO and
Speaker 1: chairman of Red UK that's Britain's largest jobs recruitment company. First,
Speaker 1: I'm joined here by Bloomberg's Tom Metcalf, who heads up
Speaker 1: all of our City of London coverage, to zoom into
Speaker 1: what's happening on the ground with the jobs market in
Speaker 1: the City of London. Tom, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: talking to in the city. We're exploring what the health
Speaker 1: is of the job market in the City of London.
Speaker 1: You track finance in the UK capital. How's it looking. Well,
Speaker 1: it's been interesting because since the pandemic, you know, things
Speaker 1: are going gangbash, so there's more and more jobs are available.
Speaker 1: We're getting figures from various people. That's the best time
Speaker 1: ever you could possibly choose to move. What's particularly interesting
Speaker 1: for me right now is just sort of the situation
Speaker 1: is starting to maybe muddy slightly. You've got some areas
Speaker 1: which still seem to be doing very well and others
Speaker 1: which are starting to struggle. And I think that's what's
Speaker 1: going to be really telling over the coming months, you know,
Speaker 1: as the economic outlook starts to clarify a bit, I
Speaker 1: think we might have a bit less of a positive
Speaker 1: sense from the job market. So which are those areas
Speaker 1: which are starting to look shaky, where people starting to
Speaker 1: worry for their job security. Yeah. For me, that the
Speaker 1: big one is investment banking, So that is the sort
Speaker 1: of part of the city that might be advising on
Speaker 1: you know, I p O s on M and A.
Speaker 1: So the traditional kind of suited bankers, you know, going
Speaker 1: out glad handing clients and that at least in terms
Speaker 1: when we see listings that is way down. The deals
Speaker 1: are dried up, right, So these guys are sitting on
Speaker 1: their hands over the summer. Well yeah, basically, and obviously
Speaker 1: you've had a big sort of horror in boost previously.
Speaker 1: It was a very busy year last year, and now
Speaker 1: they're suddenly finding hey, maybe we have too many people.
Speaker 1: So what we're hearing from people in the space is
Speaker 1: certainly there's very few jobs out there going forward, and
Speaker 1: when people do leave, perhaps they're not looking to sort
Speaker 1: of actively replace them, just because if you're if you're
Speaker 1: at least and banker in London, there's there's very little
Speaker 1: to be done right now, and the pipeline for the
Speaker 1: I p. A market's not looking great either as it
Speaker 1: for I mean, there's the arm deal which is obviously
Speaker 1: in doubt whether or not that our count to London.
Speaker 1: I know there's lots of lobbying on that and that
Speaker 1: would be a mega, a blockbuster deal, but there's not
Speaker 1: much else. Is there anything else coming? And no, nothing,
Speaker 1: nothing significant, So you know, big change from last year.
Speaker 1: And that's the thing. It's a very sort of what
Speaker 1: you kill type industry, right and if if the deals
Speaker 1: aren't coming, then there's as you say, banker is probably
Speaker 1: sitting on their hands or lots of pitching. But right now,
Speaker 1: and this is true of a lot of listening markets,
Speaker 1: there's just just not much activity. And what about M
Speaker 1: and A Similarly, I think that's a bit more sort
Speaker 1: of defensive in that you know that will continue to
Speaker 1: sustain itself no matter you know what the economic outlook is.
Speaker 1: And some some people say, hey, look in tough times,
Speaker 1: it's a great time to do M and A, But
Speaker 1: again in terms of those big standout deals, is very
Speaker 1: few right now, and that's just so much uncertainty right
Speaker 1: there's a lot of wait and see in that markets
Speaker 1: are not as drastic as the listings. But again I
Speaker 1: wouldn't say the sort of job market in M and
Speaker 1: A banking is sort of going to be flying in
Speaker 1: the next few months. Okay, so you don't want to
Speaker 1: be in e CM, you don't want to be in
Speaker 1: M and A. What are the areas which are still
Speaker 1: doing well, what people are still getting these pay rises
Speaker 1: to switch firms, and where the job market really looks
Speaker 1: booming still well? I think trading doing very well. It's
Speaker 1: kind of feeding off that market volatility. And you know,
Speaker 1: the interesting about trading is whether it's quite or busy,
Speaker 1: you kind of need the same number of people. So
Speaker 1: if someone does leave a position, they tend to get
Speaker 1: replaced fairly fairly quickly, so that's a positive place. And
Speaker 1: then of course stuff like compliance and of course we've
Speaker 1: been hearing from CEO is a lot about this. Anyone
Speaker 1: with sort of tech capabilities. So if you know, you
Speaker 1: know your finance, but you're also able to code, those
Speaker 1: jobs are still like gold dust and and that's a
Speaker 1: fantastic place to be as a employee. We're seeing people
Speaker 1: in those parts of the industry switch roles for big
Speaker 1: pay rises and people's salaries getting bit up. There's been
Speaker 1: headlines around some of the big bonuses that are coming
Speaker 1: or the big total conversation packages people are getting in
Speaker 1: the city is that is that still happening over the summer,
Speaker 1: certainly in the right areas. And I mean I'm looking
Speaker 1: at a stat here from Morgan Kenley, a recruiter, and
Speaker 1: they're saying, like the average salary change in the second
Speaker 1: quarter was basically so that's kind of spread across not
Speaker 1: just the super hot areas as well. It gives you
Speaker 1: a sense of if you're really sought after, how how
Speaker 1: well you can do at this point. So you know,
Speaker 1: there are some eye popping things, and when people move,
Speaker 1: you know, we hear tales of sort of guaranteed conversation
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. But again, it's in those certain areas,
Speaker 1: and I think the broader picture is a much more
Speaker 1: sort of mixed one. And you know, I would say,
Speaker 1: also the heat is done, come out of the market
Speaker 1: a bit. What about the economic headwinds that we're facing
Speaker 1: you mentioned them about earlier. A lot of uncertainty as
Speaker 1: we head into the end of the year all around
Speaker 1: the world. Obviously, fears of recession in many markets, including here.
Speaker 1: We know all about the high inflation problem that needs
Speaker 1: to happen, and we don't know what sort of government
Speaker 1: we're going to have here after September the five with
Speaker 1: the new Prime Minister is announced. What impact does that
Speaker 1: have on the ability for city firms to hire to
Speaker 1: plan for the rest of the year. Yeah, it's it
Speaker 1: was interesting mentioned house was was this month and basically
Speaker 1: we're here in you know, the government forward yet another
Speaker 1: plan about how it's going to take advantage of this
Speaker 1: Brexit dividend. You know. Again, it's sort of well, that's
Speaker 1: the thing. It's all very rhetorical at the moment, right,
Speaker 1: and I think when you talk to people in the city,
Speaker 1: they have sort of effectively given up on any kind
Speaker 1: of obvious reward from that, and they're just sort of
Speaker 1: planning on kind of being stuck in this sort of
Speaker 1: limbo really in terms of you know, we're not in
Speaker 1: the EU, but we're not massively pivoting away from pre
Speaker 1: existing regulation or anything like that. And you know, I
Speaker 1: think that's sort of the challenges as that lack of
Speaker 1: clarity means, you know, these really big decisions are probably
Speaker 1: just being kicked down the path a bit um and
Speaker 1: instead you sort of you know, manage watched in front
Speaker 1: of you. Yeah, because who's going to be the chancellor,
Speaker 1: who's going to be the Chief Secretary to the Treasury.
Speaker 1: Who's going to be in charge of the city regulation.
Speaker 1: What does that regulation of premier even look like. No
Speaker 1: one knows today at this point. No, And and that's
Speaker 1: going to be very interesting thing about September. So the
Speaker 1: current Chancellor sort of push this decision on something called
Speaker 1: cooling power down the road, but it became very clear
Speaker 1: that whoever does take over the Conservative leadership and the
Speaker 1: Prime ministership, then they'll have to make that cool in
Speaker 1: terms of do we start to see more government intervention
Speaker 1: in regulatory matters. Thank you, Tom metcalf as always. So
Speaker 1: now let zoom out and look at the picture across
Speaker 1: the whole of Britain. And I'm joined in the studio
Speaker 1: by James Reid. He's the chief executive officer and chairman
Speaker 1: of Read UK and they are the largest jobs recruitment
Speaker 1: company in Britain. James, thank you so much for joining
Speaker 1: us on in the city. I just wanted to start
Speaker 1: with this question about where we are at now at
Speaker 1: this moment in time. Back in the spring, the story
Speaker 1: was that the job market was red hot here in
Speaker 1: the City of London. We were writing that city firms
Speaker 1: are desperate to hire this really tight job market it
Speaker 1: feels that something has changed. We had common Sacks coming
Speaker 1: out just recently saying they're going to slow hiring. Now,
Speaker 1: is that what you're seeing? Well, we're still seeing very
Speaker 1: large numbers of vacancies, but I'd say the race at
Speaker 1: which those vacancies have been increasing has really slowed down.
Speaker 1: So a year ago a job's boom began in Britain
Speaker 1: and particularly in the city, the level of demand is
Speaker 1: still very high and there are fewer people available to
Speaker 1: do these jobs than there are vacancies, so it's a
Speaker 1: very tight labor market. I would say it hasn't hasn't
Speaker 1: overheated completely, which was looking perilously possible earlier in the year,
Speaker 1: so it has has cooled a bit, but it's still
Speaker 1: very tight. So does that mean we're still seeing cases
Speaker 1: of these inflated salaries people are having to bid up
Speaker 1: the amount of money to poach people from different firms.
Speaker 1: Is it? Is it still that hot? Well? The data
Speaker 1: that was published from the o NS is very interesting
Speaker 1: because it showed that pay was not keeping pace with inflation.
Speaker 1: So overall pay in the private sector was up about
Speaker 1: seven p and inflation is obviously now about nine and rising,
Speaker 1: so inflation is galloping ahead of pay. But interestingly, in
Speaker 1: finance and insurance roles pay the media increase in pay
Speaker 1: was reported as above ten percent, so those areas are
Speaker 1: doing well, especially when you compare them with say arts
Speaker 1: and entertainment, where the medium increase was one point four percent.
Speaker 1: So there are still there's still a lot of movement
Speaker 1: on pay, particularly where skills are in tight demand. And
Speaker 1: in the past, you know on read dot co dot UK,
Speaker 1: when we saw companies advertising for roles, they were typically
Speaker 1: advertise a premium of say ten percent above the market
Speaker 1: rate to get people to move. Now we're seeing above
Speaker 1: the market rate to get people to move if those
Speaker 1: people have particular skills, and that's particular finance out in front.
Speaker 1: Do you think they're increases because there's such a shortage
Speaker 1: still for for finances, Well, yeah, for for particular skills,
Speaker 1: that's exactly what's happening, and we're seeing it in a
Speaker 1: number of sectors, but finance and technology in particular, and
Speaker 1: you know, skills like digital marketing in such demand. You know,
Speaker 1: we're seeing up to increases for people moving. But that's
Speaker 1: what's interesting about this market because the cost of living
Speaker 1: is going up on a daily basis now and and
Speaker 1: it's accelerating. More people are looking around thinking well where
Speaker 1: can I go to earn more money? And so we're
Speaker 1: going to see a lot of people on the move
Speaker 1: I think later this year. But in those top end jobs,
Speaker 1: you know, the cost of living, as we all know,
Speaker 1: impacts people at the lower end of the placecout doesn't
Speaker 1: it much more, you know, when it's about food inflation
Speaker 1: or transport. Doesn't really touch the size, does it for
Speaker 1: a city trader. And yet they're still using that as
Speaker 1: an argument they need to shift jobs and get fit.
Speaker 1: I was I suppose I was referring to the whole market.
Speaker 1: But if if you can see a job very similar
Speaker 1: to your own and it's paying fifty more, it's going
Speaker 1: to get your attention, isn't it. And and that's why
Speaker 1: employers are doing this because a lot of people are
Speaker 1: sitting quite comfortably in their in their current jobs. They
Speaker 1: might have got a deal where they can work more
Speaker 1: flexibly than they were before. They're well set up at
Speaker 1: home and in the office. They probably enjoy their job
Speaker 1: and they enjoy the people they work with. So to
Speaker 1: get someone like that to move, employers are having to
Speaker 1: pay a premium to get their attention, and the two
Speaker 1: things that we were told from applicants that they particularly
Speaker 1: look for more money and if it's significant, they're very
Speaker 1: much more likely to move, and more flexibility. Right. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask about the flexibility question because we
Speaker 1: all thought companies are going to have to reinvent their
Speaker 1: approach to this. We've been on a bit of a
Speaker 1: journey at Bloomberg on this as well, about how often
Speaker 1: we expect people to be in the office. But actually
Speaker 1: some of the banks have been pretty clear that they
Speaker 1: expect people back at their desks. Are they having to
Speaker 1: soften their tone in order to get people to make
Speaker 1: those switches? Well, it depends who they are. I think
Speaker 1: employers that I would describe as destination employers where people
Speaker 1: really want to work and when they get very good packages,
Speaker 1: they can call the shots still. But there are a
Speaker 1: lot of other people who aren't in that position, and
Speaker 1: we have a lot of applicants who are declining opportunities
Speaker 1: because they're not offered with flexible working as a possibility.
Speaker 1: Technology one of those places. Yeah, I mean, we've got
Speaker 1: some great clients in the technology space who say we
Speaker 1: want people in attendance every day, and really good applicants
Speaker 1: are saying that doesn't work for me anymore, and they're
Speaker 1: they're looking for other opportunities and turning it down, and
Speaker 1: that is quite surprising. It's very different to three years ago.
Speaker 1: Just looking forward then to the rest of the year,
Speaker 1: we've had this hot jobs market. You're saying it's still there.
Speaker 1: There's still a shortage. We're hearing from some of the banks.
Speaker 1: They're starting to forecast a slowdown as the year goes on.
Speaker 1: And if they're having to bid up salaries some of
Speaker 1: these top jobs, that's not sustainable as it so towards
Speaker 1: the end of the year. Are we going to see
Speaker 1: firms having to cut back? The question is what's going
Speaker 1: to give. It depends on the financial circumstances of the bank.
Speaker 1: You know, are they prepared to forego profit in the
Speaker 1: short run to keep the team together and have a
Speaker 1: very strong team for when things resume in a more
Speaker 1: buoyant way, or are they keener to sort of cut
Speaker 1: back costs at the same time. So it might be
Speaker 1: that they allocate a certain amount of money for bonuses
Speaker 1: and increases. That's it. If some people are going to
Speaker 1: get more than others than other people will have to leave,
Speaker 1: so it could be a sort of reckoning for for
Speaker 1: a number of reckoning. I mean, I actually heard a
Speaker 1: pretty shocking phrase from his chief executive told me yesterday
Speaker 1: that the great resignation that we had earlier this year
Speaker 1: when people switch jobs, is going to turn into the
Speaker 1: great sacking towards the end of the year. Do you
Speaker 1: think's overplaying it? Well, that's pretty bleak. And interestingly, our data,
Speaker 1: which has been a very reliable indicator of recessions for
Speaker 1: over a quarter of a century, because we have a
Speaker 1: lot of jobs advertised on our website, our data is
Speaker 1: not currently showing a recession in prospect and it's been
Speaker 1: very reliably doing so every time until now. And so
Speaker 1: either there's not a recession coming, this is something else,
Speaker 1: or if it is a recession, it's not going to
Speaker 1: be a recession where lots of jobs are lost according
Speaker 1: to our data, because we're just seeing such big volumes
Speaker 1: of jobs, so many people are hiring, and the big
Speaker 1: and most harmful consequence of many recessions is so many
Speaker 1: people losing work and demand plummeting, so there's less demanding
Speaker 1: the column. It becomes a sort of downward spiral. I
Speaker 1: can't see that happening from our data. That's fascinating. Can
Speaker 1: you tell us a bit more about that data? Is
Speaker 1: that sort of weekly you're getting the you're you're looking
Speaker 1: at a snapshot of open roles and the kind of
Speaker 1: we have. We have over a quarter of a million
Speaker 1: jobs advertised on red dot co dot uk any one time,
Speaker 1: and we see on a daily basis how many jobs
Speaker 1: are coming in and how many jobs are being filled,
Speaker 1: and how many people are applying. And we've seen since
Speaker 1: a year and a half ago, rapidly increasing numbers of jobs,
Speaker 1: and it's now sustained at a very high level, so
Speaker 1: there are still many jobs. We saw a downturn long
Speaker 1: before the pandemic in June. We could see that the
Speaker 1: market was going off before COVID made it even worse.
Speaker 1: We can't see that now. Now. It might be that
Speaker 1: it's a different type of recession, but from my experience,
Speaker 1: it doesn't look like a recession. It's something else that
Speaker 1: is fascinating. I would love to I think we should
Speaker 1: be starting to track the read index here like as
Speaker 1: the kind of recession indicator. Right, it's been pretty reliable
Speaker 1: so far. I mean, I look at it with b
Speaker 1: D eyes, because our businesses are very cyclical. Business recruitment
Speaker 1: companies are very cyclical. It's a leading edge because the
Speaker 1: first thing someone does when they're thinking of hiring is
Speaker 1: advertised the role. You know, the government data comes up
Speaker 1: when they've been hired or when they start paying taxes,
Speaker 1: so it's always a bit later. So no recession according
Speaker 1: to your data. And again that's a bit of an
Speaker 1: outlier called increasing now, isn't it. You know, we tracked
Speaker 1: the kind of amount of time that word is used,
Speaker 1: and it's definitely going up. But casting our minds forward
Speaker 1: into the autumn again, we've got a kind of big
Speaker 1: divergent path here, haven't we. We've got two competing visions
Speaker 1: for the economy and the tour relaveship contests. As we
Speaker 1: record this, this trust has a pretty sizeable lead over
Speaker 1: Richie Sonac. She's talking about a very radical new direction,
Speaker 1: isn't she for the economy? Is that something that you
Speaker 1: think would be a positive as we try to skirt
Speaker 1: this recession. I've been looking at this, I mean, is
Speaker 1: it a radical new direction or is it just a
Speaker 1: return to where we were a couple of years ago?
Speaker 1: Because you know, these decisions to increase taxes and put
Speaker 1: up corporation tax have all been relatively recent, and there's
Speaker 1: a lot of debate around whether that timing was good
Speaker 1: or correct, And as a policy direction, it seems to
Speaker 1: be a bit of an outlier compared to other world
Speaker 1: leading economies to be increasing taxes at a time when
Speaker 1: the cost of living is also going up so fast.
Speaker 1: So I think as a business person, I'm not a
Speaker 1: I'm not a party member, I don't have a vote
Speaker 1: in this election, but as a business person, I won't
Speaker 1: be unhappy to see corporation tax come back to where
Speaker 1: it was or even better if that's the plan. I
Speaker 1: don't know, because tax of that sort of cost to
Speaker 1: our business, and you know, it's money that we might
Speaker 1: reinvest in our business if we still had a trust anomics.
Speaker 1: I think we're calling it what it might mean. I
Speaker 1: guess we'll learn a bit more in the coming weeks.
Speaker 1: But tax is clearly a big central plank of that,
Speaker 1: isn't it, both on the corporation front and on the
Speaker 1: personal level as well as a way to support the
Speaker 1: economy and get things growing again. And and Company is
Speaker 1: going to respond to actually think, yeah, well, One interesting
Speaker 1: observation I would make is, you know, we've heard about
Speaker 1: the Great Resignation. It became known as the Big Lie
Speaker 1: Down in China. Lots of people leaving the workforce because
Speaker 1: the pandemic led them to have reflections and thoughts about
Speaker 1: how they want to live their lives, and it didn't
Speaker 1: involve doing so much work. Tax and increasing tax on
Speaker 1: working obviously fuels that because you know, if you if
Speaker 1: you're getting paid less ultimately when you go home because
Speaker 1: your national insurance has gone up, or relatively speak, your
Speaker 1: income tax has gone up, that's a disincentive to going
Speaker 1: to work. So I think is a legitimate argument for
Speaker 1: saying a lower tax economy will encourage more people to
Speaker 1: go to work, more companies to interest and help the
Speaker 1: economy grow. But but you know, I understand that you know,
Speaker 1: public finances aren't where they should be, right. That's the
Speaker 1: richest snak angle on this, isn't it. You know that
Speaker 1: a true conservative approach is balancing the books. But can
Speaker 1: I just talk a bit more about the city as well,
Speaker 1: because the government published their recommendations for ripping up some
Speaker 1: of the eu legacy ways of running the City of
Speaker 1: London in particular, I optimistic going forward that that's going
Speaker 1: to manage to bolster the city as Europe's financial capital.
Speaker 1: I don't want to mention the B word necessarily Brexit,
Speaker 1: probably I guess I had to touch on that, like
Speaker 1: the effects of that stobbing foult aren't they? Well you
Speaker 1: just did. And you know, if if Brexit is to
Speaker 1: be a success in the long run, that the opportunity
Speaker 1: it offers to do things a bit differently need to
Speaker 1: be seized. I mean, what what where can we improve regulation?
Speaker 1: Where can we changed the way businesses are run and
Speaker 1: managed to make our country and our economy more successful.
Speaker 1: I mean I look at particular the sort of labor market,
Speaker 1: and you know there needs to be there needs to
Speaker 1: be a workforce strategy to help deal with these big problems. Um.
Speaker 1: You know, every business we're talking to at the moment
Speaker 1: seems to be struggling to hire people and that could
Speaker 1: be uniquely UK initiative. It doesn't you know, they might
Speaker 1: be able to do things now that they weren't able
Speaker 1: to do before because of the parameters and the rules.
Speaker 1: So you know, I think there should be a real
Speaker 1: investment in vocational education, real investment in apprenticeships, and there's
Speaker 1: been a lot of talk about lifelong learning accounts. Well
Speaker 1: that should be delivered. So you know, they say, as
Speaker 1: a consequence of Brexit, it's policy we want to give
Speaker 1: opportunities to people in the UK for two British workers. Great,
Speaker 1: that's great, but you need to prioritize education if you're
Speaker 1: going to make that happen, and if you're going to
Speaker 1: create high growth, low tax, high wage economy, you need
Speaker 1: to really have us attitude to deliver it. I mean,
Speaker 1: just just cutting the taxes on its own won't be sufficient. Obviously,
Speaker 1: the big flood of jobs leaving the city after Brexit
Speaker 1: didn't happen, right There has been a drip direct trip,
Speaker 1: hasn't there of jobs going to Paris, going to Frankfurt.
Speaker 1: There's not been a flood, but some people say that
Speaker 1: that's going to just continue. And there's a kind of
Speaker 1: long slow bleeding of the city of London in terms
Speaker 1: of roles because of the way that Brussels is putting
Speaker 1: up barriers for transactions between London and the rest of
Speaker 1: the continent. Do you see that in in your work, uh, Lundley, No,
Speaker 1: London feels incredibly busy and dynamic, to me just looking
Speaker 1: at it as a whole and compared to other cities
Speaker 1: across the continent. So I think I'm speaking as a
Speaker 1: biased person because I am in London, but I think
Speaker 1: London's got a great future. But it is the duty
Speaker 1: of our political leaders and regulators to ensure that the
Speaker 1: regulations are well thought through. And you know, there's been
Speaker 1: a lot of distractions, hasn't there recently in terms of
Speaker 1: the pandemic and what's going on in politics. I'm hoping that,
Speaker 1: you know, we can put that behind us and really
Speaker 1: focus on making the city of London and the wider
Speaker 1: UK economy really successful. And do you think the government
Speaker 1: doing enough to keep those jobs here? I mean things
Speaker 1: like the banker bonus cap M a legacy of the
Speaker 1: financial crisis. Is that one thing that who have the
Speaker 1: new Chancellor and Prime Minister in the alternationship should tackle well.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's going to get many votes outside
Speaker 1: not a massive but I think light touch regulation. You
Speaker 1: know what people have paid is I think it should
Speaker 1: be contractual between them and their employer, not not something
Speaker 1: I don't see that. I think this idea that government
Speaker 1: needs to get involved in every aspect of commercial life
Speaker 1: is it's probably not right. And I think if there
Speaker 1: has been a drip drip drip over the last twenty
Speaker 1: or thirty years, it's been a sort of accumulation of
Speaker 1: things that businesses are expected to do beyond business that
Speaker 1: that has increased costs. And you know how much of
Speaker 1: that we really care about and how much of it
Speaker 1: could we look at in the cold light of day
Speaker 1: and say, let's scrap that and do something else. I'm
Speaker 1: loving your optimism about the city of London and about
Speaker 1: the British economy overall. That you're very bullished by the
Speaker 1: sounds of things on everything. But what is worrying you
Speaker 1: at the moment? There are so many headwinds on there
Speaker 1: coming coming our way. One thing that's worrying enough is
Speaker 1: I'm fully invested in Britain. I mean, I run a
Speaker 1: UK company, our businesses in the UK, so yeah, I
Speaker 1: do want Britain to succeed. I mean there are a
Speaker 1: number of things that that are concerning, aren't there. I mean,
Speaker 1: inflation is not under control and every time the number
Speaker 1: is published it's higher than the one before. And that's
Speaker 1: not just here. I do business in Turkey, for instance,
Speaker 1: and you know, they've got huge inflation now, So you
Speaker 1: know that's a that's a problem around the world. You
Speaker 1: see that are basing here later in the year, or
Speaker 1: it's abou unpredictable. It's very unpredictable, and you know, no
Speaker 1: one saw it coming to those that perhaps should have
Speaker 1: seen it coming in terms of economists and bank con
Speaker 1: central bank in the way that it has. So that's
Speaker 1: that's an on going problem. But also fixing it is
Speaker 1: often difficult. But the jobs market is key to getting
Speaker 1: it under control, isn't it, Because if if the wages
Speaker 1: are being bit up, as you say it, inflation becomes
Speaker 1: completely entrenched, doesn't it. Well, I want to stick up
Speaker 1: for workers here a bit, because pay settlements have not
Speaker 1: been the cause of inflation, and pay settlements behind inflation.
Speaker 1: You know, overall private sector pay increases seven percent inflations
Speaker 1: now north of nine. I think it's a tough ask
Speaker 1: to ask people who are already relatively low paid. Many
Speaker 1: people in particularly sort of service jobs, public service jobs,
Speaker 1: the people that were described as key workers during the
Speaker 1: pandemic and being applauded for their efforts and now on
Speaker 1: getting one to three increases are getting Yeah, And it's
Speaker 1: that fair. No, it's not, and I think, you know,
Speaker 1: we should reflect on that. Maybe this inflation is being
Speaker 1: caused by woeful energy strategy across the continents of Europe.
Speaker 1: Maybe it's being caused by lack of resolve in the Ukraine.
Speaker 1: I don't know, but there are lots of other places
Speaker 1: that this is coming from that are not on our
Speaker 1: door set. I think each to their own in a way.
Speaker 1: If you've got to do the best you can, haven't
Speaker 1: you If you're in if you're a working person, you
Speaker 1: want to try so. If you can't get a pay
Speaker 1: rise where you are, a lot of people are now
Speaker 1: looking to go somewhere else. Can I ask about the
Speaker 1: top tier here executive pay in a climate where there
Speaker 1: is a cost of living crisis. You say public sector
Speaker 1: pay is lagging inflation. It's not a great look, is
Speaker 1: it to be awarding the c suite big pay increases?
Speaker 1: But when the labor market is tight, when talent is tight,
Speaker 1: are the top companies having to offer increasing the massive
Speaker 1: packages to get the top people? That's an interesting dilemma.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's a definite trade off. You are seeing
Speaker 1: situations where people are being paid more to move and
Speaker 1: you know the best talent in management very valuable because
Speaker 1: you know, really good leaders can make a huge difference
Speaker 1: to the performance of organizations. So you can see why
Speaker 1: boards would pay a premium for that. But I suppose
Speaker 1: I would urge those leaders to reflect a bit on
Speaker 1: their own sort of position and how much money do
Speaker 1: you actually need and do you really want to be
Speaker 1: earning so much more than your neighbors and the people
Speaker 1: who work in your organization. Can you really look yourself
Speaker 1: in the mirror and say, yeah, I'm happy with that.
Speaker 1: If you can, then fair enough. But if not, have
Speaker 1: a think about it, because you know, I'm a well
Speaker 1: paid person, but I don't. I wouldn't move for double
Speaker 1: my salary. I feel I'm really engaged in the job
Speaker 1: I'm doing. I like what I do, and I feel
Speaker 1: fairly remunerated. So if you feel fairly remunerated, what's the problem.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much James Reid for joining us on
Speaker 1: in the City. Thank you David, thanks for listening to
Speaker 1: this week's In the City. We will be back next week,
Speaker 1: but in the meantime, if you like our show, please
Speaker 1: head on over to Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen
Speaker 1: to podcasts and rate review and subscribe. This episode was
Speaker 1: hosted by me David Merritt and produced by Summer Sadi
Speaker 1: and Eleen Agnatra. Special thanks to Tom Metcalf and James
Speaker 1: red h