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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff

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Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey are you welcome to Stuff to

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Speaker 1: Blow your Mind? My name is Robert Lamb and I'm

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Speaker 1: Joe McCormick and Robert. Are you going to make us

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Speaker 1: tread into some unsolved mysteries today? Oh yeah, We're gonna

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Speaker 1: get into some classic Unsolved Mysteries territory at least to

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Speaker 1: kick off this episode. Oh boy, do dick a dick

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Speaker 1: a do do do dick a dick a duty? There

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Speaker 1: you go. That takes me back back to the eighties

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Speaker 1: and nineties, especially around nineteen itself, because that is the

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Speaker 1: year that an episode of Unsolved Mysteries aired that touched

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Speaker 1: on crop circles Kingdom. Yeah, I remember there because they

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Speaker 1: weren't always just unsolved murderers and disappearances and Matthew McConaughey

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Speaker 1: screaming in a like a driveway somewhere. They got increasingly

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Speaker 1: into these, um, these paranormal things. It's right, these paranormal topics.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if it was just like the TV

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Speaker 1: I watched when I was a kid, like for for

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Speaker 1: whatever reason, whatever happened to be on in my house,

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Speaker 1: or if this is what TV was like in the nineties.

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Speaker 1: I remember nineties TV was just wall to wall paranormal cryptids, conspiracies,

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. Was that like what every show was about?

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Speaker 1: Or is that just what my parents were watching? Or

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Speaker 1: I mean for me, a lot of it was just

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Speaker 1: it was what was on, and then it was what

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Speaker 1: you gravitated towards. There are only so many channels, and

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Speaker 1: you watch TV at it's uh, you know, at its pace,

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Speaker 1: and so I would for whatever reason tune in and

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Speaker 1: watch and solve mysteries or in search of or whatever

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Speaker 1: kind of you know, cryptid pseudo scientific show happened to

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Speaker 1: be on. But yeah, I remember one of the things

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Speaker 1: that I was really convinced of from television when I

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Speaker 1: was a child. I must have been in second grade

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Speaker 1: or something, and I was like, oh, definitely aliens are real,

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Speaker 1: and that's abs salutely one of my issues. And those

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Speaker 1: crop circles, those are awesome and they were definitely aliens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the crop circles definitely were part of this the overall

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Speaker 1: sort of unsolved mysteries argument for the existence of aliens, right,

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Speaker 1: you had it was almost like a holy trinity of

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Speaker 1: UFO sightings, alien abduction experiences, and then those crop circles. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you had the physical proof, the the experience, and just

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Speaker 1: the sighting of things in the sky. It just it

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Speaker 1: just felt like, here's the complete argument. Yeah, exactly. So

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Speaker 1: the crop circles were the one part of it where

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Speaker 1: you didn't have to rely on somebody's eyewitness testimony. It

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Speaker 1: was just like, here's the evidence. What else could have

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Speaker 1: made these circles. It turns out maybe a lot of

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Speaker 1: things could have, especially like people. But um, but some

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Speaker 1: of you look at some of the circles and you

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Speaker 1: can see why people were convinced, Because I am quite

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Speaker 1: impressed by the artistry of a good mini crop circles.

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Speaker 1: You go and like google these images. In some cases

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Speaker 1: I'm like, why aren't these hoaxters just like artists? Some

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Speaker 1: of them are quite beautiful. Oh yeah. I mean for

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Speaker 1: anyone who hasn't seen photos of crop circles, which I'll

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Speaker 1: be surprised if you haven't do a search see these things,

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Speaker 1: they are impressive in many cases. Uh. They begin popping

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Speaker 1: up in the nineteen seventies, mostly in the UK, and

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Speaker 1: they had these just increasingly elaborate patterns. You know, they

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Speaker 1: started off kind of simple and they just got more

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Speaker 1: and more elaborate, to the point where it becomes it

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Speaker 1: becomes kind of difficult at times. So look at it

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Speaker 1: and think of just a few human hoaxters running around

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Speaker 1: in the night. Now, to be perfectly clear, we should

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Speaker 1: explain the exact physical reality of what a crop circle is. Generally,

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Speaker 1: it's in a field, often like a cereal, you know,

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Speaker 1: like a grain like wheat field or something like that,

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Speaker 1: where there would be tall stalks of something, of plants,

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Speaker 1: and that they get flattened in a pattern that's usually

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Speaker 1: circular in nature and often increasingly complex as the years

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Speaker 1: go on. Yeah, I have to also throw and even

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Speaker 1: though I don't recall if I if if you had

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Speaker 1: crop circles showing up in corn fields, I think maybe, yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe so. But I feel like there's also the fact

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Speaker 1: that that you had children of the corn and it's

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Speaker 1: it's infinite sequels popping up around the same time. So

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Speaker 1: there was this idea in especially like the Zeitgeist to

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Speaker 1: the VHS store going Child, that large scale agriculture is

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Speaker 1: is just inherently creepy. Yes, well, there's it showed up

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Speaker 1: in the X Files a lot. There would be like

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Speaker 1: X Files episodes where they stumble onto a big, scary

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Speaker 1: farm and something's happening there. There's like the farm where

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Speaker 1: they had the bees, these genetically engineered bees or something. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so you got genetically engineered bees, you've got what he

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Speaker 1: who walks between the rows I think was the love

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Speaker 1: crafty and entity and the original children of the corn.

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Speaker 1: And then you have these complex, at times geometric patterns

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Speaker 1: that are just carefully lined up out there in the

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Speaker 1: middle of a field. Now, I think the obvious implication

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Speaker 1: if you haven't delved into this literal nature, is that,

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Speaker 1: like space ships are landing, and for some reason, they

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Speaker 1: always land where there is tall vegetation near civilization to

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Speaker 1: be photographed. And another thing is that crop circles often

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Speaker 1: don't look all that impressive if you're standing on the ground,

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Speaker 1: but if you take a picture from up above, they

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Speaker 1: look really cool. But the idea is like a ship

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Speaker 1: lands and it makes these patterns. Yeah, I just got

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Speaker 1: like the cookie cutter pattern of the ship. But but

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Speaker 1: then there were other explanations as well. Well, it's maybe

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Speaker 1: not the ship just landing, but it's some sort of

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Speaker 1: alien communication, or it's some sort of mystic earth energy

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Speaker 1: such as orgone energy, oh boy, um or everything else

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Speaker 1: under the sun, including big big Foot a whole or boot.

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Speaker 1: He just occasionally morphs to have a big circular foot. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, every night big Foot goes out there and

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Speaker 1: just starts pushing down the wheat until he forms his

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Speaker 1: complex geometric pattern. I don't know, we'll come back to

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Speaker 1: that theory later and just have to say, um, but

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Speaker 1: you had a whole whole organization's whole publications popping up.

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Speaker 1: I'd just go even so far as to say, you

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Speaker 1: have sort of a system of paranormal paranormal belief springing

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Speaker 1: up around these patterns. Now, as Carl Sagan points out

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Speaker 1: in the Demon Haunted World, he spends a little time

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Speaker 1: talking about crop circles. He says that at least some

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Speaker 1: scientifically minded folks or folks with some degree of scientific training,

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Speaker 1: did present some theories that were still a little fringy,

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Speaker 1: but at least based more in in observable reality. There

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Speaker 1: were theories that there was some sort of strange whirlwind,

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Speaker 1: like a columnar vortex or a ring vortex. Uh. There

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Speaker 1: were also those who said, okay, but it's gotta be

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Speaker 1: ball lightning, ball lightning, it is probably involved. I mean, obviously,

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Speaker 1: I don't think crop circles are caused by aliens, but

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Speaker 1: I think a lot of these other explanations are also

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Speaker 1: not maybe not as unlikely as aliens, but pretty unlikely.

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Speaker 1: But again, these were impressive patterns, and you know, they

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Speaker 1: were elaborate, they were beautiful, and they sometimes seem to

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Speaker 1: have been created in like near two to three hour

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Speaker 1: windows in the dark. And there would be additional accounts

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Speaker 1: of of how say, oh, well, there were no footsteps scene,

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Speaker 1: there were no flashlight scene, all of this adding to

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Speaker 1: the mystery and and making it seem, you know, increasingly

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Speaker 1: unlikely that humans had anything to do with this at all.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, I've already alluded to my theory,

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Speaker 1: which I think is pretty much the common theory that

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Speaker 1: people would have, is that these things are made by

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Speaker 1: people who are creating them on purpose as hoaxes or

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Speaker 1: art or whatever. I've never seen any crop circle as

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Speaker 1: impressive and even beautiful as some of them are. That

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Speaker 1: doesn't look like something that could have been created by

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Speaker 1: some people with a plan and some rope and a

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Speaker 1: board exactly. Now. I'll come back to Bigfoot at the

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Speaker 1: very end of this episode. But no indeed, Um, every

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Speaker 1: crop circle that has ever been reported is entirely consistent

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Speaker 1: with human activity, with human causation and human hoax making.

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Speaker 1: There's not a single crop circle that has ever been

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Speaker 1: observed where where experts will have weighed in and said, Yep,

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Speaker 1: there's no way humans could have done that. And in

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Speaker 1: every case humans could have done it, done it, and

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Speaker 1: humans did do it. Um is delightful and fun. As

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Speaker 1: most of the fringe explanations are, they're completely unnecessary when

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Speaker 1: we the human hoaxters are right here. In particular to

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Speaker 1: human hoaxters who made the headlines in Doug Bauer and

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Speaker 1: Dave Chorley announced that they had been making crop circles

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Speaker 1: for fifteen years. Who these were two Southampton residents in

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Speaker 1: the UK, And they said that they used first a

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Speaker 1: heavy steel security bar that you would like, you know,

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Speaker 1: far adoor with UH. They used that. Then they moved

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Speaker 1: on to planks and ropes and they were and then

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Speaker 1: they would use these to just push down the uh,

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Speaker 1: the wheat pushed down whatever the cereal crop happened to be.

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Speaker 1: And they were inspired by UFO stories and they started

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Speaker 1: doing it just for fun and it became progressively better

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Speaker 1: at it this time went on more daring in their execution,

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Speaker 1: and as people begin to follow their their were their works,

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Speaker 1: their exploits. They followed the literature as well, and would

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Speaker 1: even mess with them by intentionally throwing off interpretations, like

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Speaker 1: somebody might be commenting on, oh, well, there's this clockwise pattern,

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Speaker 1: and then so the next one they would do a

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Speaker 1: counterclockwise pattern, just to mess with them. Like they really

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Speaker 1: got into the spirit of the thing. And then you

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Speaker 1: have copycat crop circles popping up in the UK and

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Speaker 1: beyond the UK. It begins to take on a life

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Speaker 1: of its own. But then eventually they grew they grew

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Speaker 1: tired of the hoax. They were getting older. I think

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Speaker 1: they were in their sixties at this point. They realized

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Speaker 1: they couldn't carry it on forever UM and there was

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Speaker 1: just just less satisfying to do. So they were having

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Speaker 1: There was also some some difficulties in UM in dealing

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Speaker 1: with copycats, because there were some there's some pretty shoddy

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Speaker 1: work out there, and they apparently started trying to incorporate

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Speaker 1: like a d D because they were, you know, Doug

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Speaker 1: and Dave making sure that they kind of signed their work.

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Speaker 1: And this was of course interpreted by by by some

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Speaker 1: of the quote unquote experts as being some other kind

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Speaker 1: of alien glyph. Yeah dooms day um, but so yeah,

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Speaker 1: they came clean. Less elaborate crop circles continued, of course,

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Speaker 1: and as Sagan pointed out in the demon Haunted World quote,

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Speaker 1: as always, the confession of the hoax is greatly overshadowed

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Speaker 1: by the sustained initial excitement. Many have heard of the

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Speaker 1: pictograms in Serial Grains and their alleged UFO connection, but

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Speaker 1: draw a blink when the names of Bower and Chorley,

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Speaker 1: or the very idea that the whole business may maybe

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Speaker 1: a hoax are raised. I mean, this is a problem

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Speaker 1: that goes beyond just hoaxes, right, This is a problem

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Speaker 1: of any time there's an interesting story that turns out

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Speaker 1: to be untrue, and I would say unfortunately, as interesting

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Speaker 1: as the real world is, you do have to consider

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Speaker 1: the fact that, like, the more shocking or more attention

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Speaker 1: grabbing a story is probably the more suspicious you should

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Speaker 1: be of it, right, because that you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: natural selection effect on what kinds of stories get picked

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Speaker 1: up and repeated and shared on media and on the

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Speaker 1: internet these days, and all that that they just kind

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Speaker 1: of naturally, things that are very attention catching bubble to

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Speaker 1: the surface, and they have a better shot at getting

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Speaker 1: that kind of reach as a story than something that

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Speaker 1: is maybe more likely to be true but less attention grabbing.

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Speaker 1: And this is true of like scientific studies. I feel

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Speaker 1: like the ones that are most likely to later get

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Speaker 1: retracted are the ones that are like, wow, that's a

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Speaker 1: really weird result. And then the retraction doesn't usually get

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Speaker 1: noticed nearly as much, right, because that's just not that interesting,

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Speaker 1: and it will be like either the initial flawed study

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Speaker 1: or you know, or it'll be some story about a

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Speaker 1: flawed study that will continue to make the rounds on

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Speaker 1: social media, and then somebody else has to say, actually,

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Speaker 1: you know that this was retracted later on or this

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Speaker 1: was disproven. Well, then you always got to worry if

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Speaker 1: by bringing up the story again to mention the fact

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Speaker 1: that it's not actually true, you're just spreading the original

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Speaker 1: false story, even if you make clear that it's not true. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm engaging with the post, right, and that's

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Speaker 1: probably it's probably being rewarded. In the Almighty Algorithm and

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Speaker 1: the Illusory Truth Effect, which we did a couple of

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Speaker 1: episodes about if people have been exposed to an idea,

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Speaker 1: even in the context of it being explained as being untrue,

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Speaker 1: they're more likely to believe it later. Right. And if

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Speaker 1: you really invested in the idea of crop circles being

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Speaker 1: you know, the communications from essentially the gods, right, uh,

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Speaker 1: then you probably have some spin on it. Right. Well,

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Speaker 1: these two guys came forward and claimed responsibility for some

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Speaker 1: of them, or maybe you know, some shadowy organization the

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Speaker 1: Illuminati paid these guys to come forward to Friday off

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Speaker 1: of everybody. But so the aliens, they were fall guys. Well.

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Speaker 1: As fascinating as crop circles are, they are not the

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Speaker 1: only case in the world where we can find strange

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Speaker 1: geometrical designs out in nature and wonder what caused it.

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Speaker 1: So with that little tease, maybe we should take a

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Speaker 1: quick break and then come back to discuss another realm

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Speaker 1: of strange geometric patterns out there to be found. And

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Speaker 1: we're back, all right. So today we're not talking about

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Speaker 1: mysterious circles here in the surface realm. We're talking about

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Speaker 1: circles in the deep, where humans enjoy far less freedom

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Speaker 1: to rework the landscape with their their hoaxes and their

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Speaker 1: ingenuity and also far less uh ability to observe these

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Speaker 1: strange patterns circles in the deep bone DUCKA DUCKA DUCKA

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Speaker 1: duty Unsolved mysteries, ladies and gentlemen, Yes so, but in

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Speaker 1: for a while this was an unsolved mystery. But here's

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Speaker 1: the thing. Sometimes a mystery presents itself and the answer

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Speaker 1: is even more amazing than anything we could possibly dream

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Speaker 1: up about underwater aliens or what have you. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think that can be true because often, even when we

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Speaker 1: discovered that the answer to something isn't actually aliens, which

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Speaker 1: of course discovering aliens would be fascinating, discovering that the

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Speaker 1: answer is something else is more likely to tell us

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Speaker 1: something about the nature of earth life, which is very

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Speaker 1: relevant to us. It matters on this planet. Uh so yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I love a good deep seam history, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: of course, like a mysterious shipwreck, that's that's great, But

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Speaker 1: you know where the ships came from, right, that's not

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Speaker 1: a mystery. What about other things that mysterious sort of

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Speaker 1: just shapely anomalies in the deep? Oh yeah, I mean

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Speaker 1: they're a number of different mysteries that have popped up. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they're they're a bit vague, you know, like it's

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Speaker 1: just we're not sure to what extent the physical reality

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Speaker 1: on the seafloor matches our readings or you know, sonar readings,

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Speaker 1: what what would have you. But but but sometimes those

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Speaker 1: mysteries are related to what seemed to be unnatural patterns

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Speaker 1: of formations. For instance, there's Japan's uh Yonagoony Monument, where

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Speaker 1: there's the Gulf of Combat Discovery, and there a whole

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Speaker 1: list of others out there with varying degrees of verification.

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Speaker 1: Though of course in the in the extreme interpretation, they're

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Speaker 1: all potentially Atlantic. They're all atlantis. That's you know, there

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Speaker 1: were there was more than one atlantis, and they all

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Speaker 1: got swallowed by the sea. That's how it works. But

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Speaker 1: but a lot of these, uh you know that I'm

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Speaker 1: alluding to, and we could certainly come back at some

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Speaker 1: point to a more in depth look at them. But

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Speaker 1: a lot of times it's something like, oh, well, this

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Speaker 1: is these are some curious right angles appearing on the

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Speaker 1: sea floor. Or look at these strange spherical formations, these circles,

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Speaker 1: something that maybe looks a little stone in jask or

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Speaker 1: looks like it could be the remains of an ancient

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Speaker 1: city or the remnants of something that might have been

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Speaker 1: man made. Yeah, there's nothing more enticing than coming across

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Speaker 1: geometric patterns that seem out of shape in the place

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Speaker 1: you find them. That's why some like ice formations, you know,

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Speaker 1: sometimes ice crystals can form in ways that look as

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Speaker 1: if they've been designed artificially, things like snow rollers and

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Speaker 1: the like. You know, that's always cool and you wonder

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Speaker 1: like did something make this? How did this come about?

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Speaker 1: And so today we're going to be focusing on an

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Speaker 1: underwater geometric anomaly like this. So to get geographically oriented,

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Speaker 1: we're going to travel to Japan. Okay, So we're going

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Speaker 1: to an island called a mommy Shima off the southern

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Speaker 1: coast of mainland Japan, north of Okinawa. It's a volcanic

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Speaker 1: island with a humid subtropical climates, surrounded by coral reefs,

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Speaker 1: and home to plenty of interesting marine life. I know

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Speaker 1: there's some like whale watching stuff around there. I think

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Speaker 1: I've also read that it's like the northernmost point of

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Speaker 1: the Dugong Territory around there. And also for some reason,

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Speaker 1: it seems like a lot of famous singers come from

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Speaker 1: this island, or at least they're listed on its Wikipedia page.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure why why all the singers, but maybe

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Speaker 1: somebody has a clue there. But back in divers off

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Speaker 1: the coast of this island, found a strange anomaly in

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Speaker 1: the sea bed. So to picture it, imagine you're swimming

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Speaker 1: along over the surface of the sea floor and you've

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Speaker 1: got your scuba tank and all that, and you come

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Speaker 1: across a strange pattern of dunes in the sandy sea bottom.

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Speaker 1: Now they're not just random drifts of sand like you

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Speaker 1: might expect to see created by the patterns of moving water.

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Speaker 1: These elevations and depressions in the sand actually form a complex,

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Speaker 1: striking geometric shape. They're arranged in a giant circle about

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Speaker 1: two meters in diameter, so it's like six or seven

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Speaker 1: feet wide. And it's not just a circle, it's circles

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Speaker 1: within circles, with radial trenches, usually in different layers, dug

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Speaker 1: into the seabed, and evenly space trenches for these outer rings,

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Speaker 1: with radial trenches that extend out and then towards the center,

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Speaker 1: with this complex maze like pattern of shallow trenches and

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Speaker 1: veins inside an innermost disc and if I may voice

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Speaker 1: my opinion, it is creepy looking. It's a it's a

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Speaker 1: real suggestion of like forbidden geometries and coded messages from

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Speaker 1: the Hadian angels of the deep, isn't it? I mean,

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Speaker 1: absolutely it. Yeah. It has the look of saying an

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Speaker 1: eye opening on the sea floor. Yeah, but with like

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Speaker 1: a maze in the pupil of the eye and bone

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Speaker 1: is in the iris of the eye. Yeah. If we

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Speaker 1: if we were to do yet another stuff to blow

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Speaker 1: your mind spinoff, just for underwater stuff, I would say,

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Speaker 1: let's do that. This is the logo. Oh, it should

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Speaker 1: absolutely be Oh yeah, there's no plans to do that,

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Speaker 1: by the way, but if we did that, this would

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Speaker 1: totally be it. I just say that would be a

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Speaker 1: good choice. Now. The circular patterns in the ocean floor

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Speaker 1: have been known by several names. Sometimes they're called mystery circles.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes they've been called underwater crop circles. I guess that

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Speaker 1: makes sense if your crop is sand. Uh. Though funny enough,

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Speaker 1: I think there are actually like sand harvesting operations all

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Speaker 1: around the world that I think can sometimes be quite destructive.

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Speaker 1: But these are not great names. We can do better, Okay.

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Speaker 1: I propose What about poseidograms? That's nice, that's nice. It

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Speaker 1: could it? It conveys a sense of communication. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: of course, see God, and this thing really does in

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Speaker 1: many ways look like a symbol or deliberate work of

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Speaker 1: art or communication. I've got a couple here. How about

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Speaker 1: protean oscillations of the Tritonian sand. Okay, that's if you're

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Speaker 1: if you're not into the whole brevity thing, but that's

348
00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:06,440
Speaker 1: a good one. Or another one I have is Sirenian

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Speaker 1: spiro graphs. Yes, I feel you on that one. Oh

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Speaker 1: my god. It is like a spirograph, like those uh things,

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Speaker 1: what is that toy called? It called a spirograph, But

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Speaker 1: we don't have one in our households, so I'm not

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Speaker 1: completely sure. I never had one as a kid either.

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Speaker 1: The inner disc especially really, because you've got these like

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Speaker 1: radial trenches going out towards the outer edges. But this

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Speaker 1: inner disc, especially with the more the weird or more

357
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Speaker 1: maze like structure, it reminds me of a spirograph sort of,

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Speaker 1: or kind of like you know those Celtic not designs

359
00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:39,720
Speaker 1: I see, people. I don't really know anything about what

360
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:42,440
Speaker 1: those are. I think they have some kind of cultural significance.

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Speaker 1: I don't know anything about him, but it looks kind

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Speaker 1: of like that Millhouse would have loved this. Millhouse, Yeah

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Speaker 1: I did. It wasn't Millhouse spirograph enthusiasts. Oh, I don't know.

364
00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,520
Speaker 1: It seemed to recall that he was, Well, if he

365
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Speaker 1: goes down scuba diving off the coast of this island,

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Speaker 1: everything maybe coming up Millhouse because he might be likely

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Speaker 1: to come across one of these. But the question is

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Speaker 1: what causes them now they're sighting in nineteen wasn't the

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Speaker 1: only time they've ever appeared. Other divers have apparently spotted

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Speaker 1: them across the years, no doubt, always making people wonder

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Speaker 1: about the messages from the alien deep or elaborate unannounced

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Speaker 1: like underwater art projects. And to go back to some

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Speaker 1: of those crop circle theories, it's easy to imagine that

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Speaker 1: someone might have seen these and contemplated some sort of

375
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Speaker 1: strange vortices in the deep being behind it. You know,

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Speaker 1: some sort of uh, you know, vortex swirling up the

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Speaker 1: sand and leaving this pattern. You can maybe imagine something

378
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Speaker 1: like that. It feels almost too deliberate or designed to

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Speaker 1: be that way, but you know, some sometimes things in

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Speaker 1: nature can be deceiving, like we were just talking about,

381
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Speaker 1: like some formations of ice look really like they were designed,

382
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Speaker 1: but they're not. They just grow that way. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you look at a snowflake, right, I mean, it's we're

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Speaker 1: all kind of over it. We've all seen snowflakes. We

385
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Speaker 1: know the complexity and beauty of of the crystals. But

386
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:00,320
Speaker 1: if you if you take a step back, can you

387
00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:02,439
Speaker 1: sort of you know, clean the slate and look at it?

388
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 1: And this is absolutely amazing to behold. It looks like

389
00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,399
Speaker 1: something that has been designed, and all that just tells

390
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,639
Speaker 1: you that our intuitions about what looks natural and what

391
00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:14,560
Speaker 1: looks designed or sometimes sort of on track, but they

392
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:16,919
Speaker 1: can be way off base too. Right now, if we

393
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Speaker 1: consider the idea of design for these things, like if

394
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Speaker 1: they were some sort of underwater art project like the

395
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Speaker 1: crop circles, if they've been made by hoaxters or or artists,

396
00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,399
Speaker 1: people who wanted others to come see what they had done,

397
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:32,600
Speaker 1: I would have wondered, how would a human expect them

398
00:21:32,640 --> 00:21:35,480
Speaker 1: to be discovered? With them being down on the seabed,

399
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:37,639
Speaker 1: and with them being so ephemeral in nature. I mean,

400
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,240
Speaker 1: these are not monuments made of bronze. They're not even

401
00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:44,400
Speaker 1: crop circles with flattened grass and plants. Their their patterns

402
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,640
Speaker 1: carved in underwater sand. So they're liable to be washed

403
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,040
Speaker 1: away by the whimsical you know, mechanics of water and

404
00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 1: marine life in almost no time and probably a matter

405
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:56,240
Speaker 1: of days. Who would make such a thing, Well, you

406
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,879
Speaker 1: might say Dug and Dave from earlier. I mean in

407
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,239
Speaker 1: a weird way that the time frame would match up

408
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 1: ninety one they're done with crop circles ninety Suddenly their

409
00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:09,280
Speaker 1: circles on the bottom of the sea. Maybe they learned,

410
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:11,840
Speaker 1: they got their scuba licenses and they set out for Japan.

411
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Speaker 1: Uh No, that's not what happened. But but you know,

412
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Speaker 1: if we were to compare this to human art, I

413
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Speaker 1: would say the nearest examples I can think of sand

414
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Speaker 1: castles or the mandalas of colored sand and Tibetan customs.

415
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Speaker 1: Except you know, as we alluded to earlier, they're they're

416
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Speaker 1: not only fleeting, but they're in places of extremely limited

417
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:35,720
Speaker 1: human traffic. Yeah, you would only expect to like scuba

418
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: divers to find these, right, and then you know, there

419
00:22:39,119 --> 00:22:40,879
Speaker 1: there there, there may be in areas where they just

420
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: aren't that many. Well, there aren't that many scuba divers

421
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Speaker 1: just period, compared to the rest of the human population.

422
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Speaker 1: Uh I certainly compared to other creatures living in the sea,

423
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Speaker 1: and so that most of them might just go unobserved.

424
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Speaker 1: It would be like if I decided to build a

425
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Speaker 1: tiny stone hinge out of barbecue pork ribs in the

426
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 1: middle of a rain forest. You know, like nobody's gonna

427
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 1: see it, and it's beginna gonna be gone. You know,

428
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,040
Speaker 1: probably almost immediately. Some ambitious artists out there is taking note, though, Robert,

429
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:12,440
Speaker 1: you know, actually I can see that being a great

430
00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 1: art project if you just leave a camera filming it,

431
00:23:15,040 --> 00:23:18,479
Speaker 1: like put put food out in the rainforest of various kinds,

432
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 1: and just time laps watch what happens to it. That

433
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,119
Speaker 1: is art. Well there we were going into this a

434
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: little bit in our old episode Unfinished on various unfinished

435
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,159
Speaker 1: pieces of art and art that is intentionally unfinished, and

436
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: I think we've talked a little bit about art that

437
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 1: is intentionally fleeting to I mean, various sculptures that have

438
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: been made out of something that will decay um or

439
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:41,720
Speaker 1: if certainly the self shredding piece of art that banks

440
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:46,360
Speaker 1: see uh, debut. You know that's sort of pretty good.

441
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,120
Speaker 1: That was pretty good. I did like that. So it's

442
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,600
Speaker 1: not to say that these patterns are like beyond the

443
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,959
Speaker 1: pale when it comes to human art, Like, yeah, humans

444
00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,920
Speaker 1: could conceivably do this. We are weird creatures, but the

445
00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,880
Speaker 1: actual explanation is even weirder. So we're gonna take one

446
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,199
Speaker 1: more break and when we come back, we'll see if

447
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: you managed to guess. So you have one more ad

448
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 1: break to try and guess what is causing the pattern.

449
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: Thank thank alright, we're back. Okay, So now we're going

450
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:21,880
Speaker 1: to get to the real explanation for the underwater crop circles.

451
00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:25,800
Speaker 1: So around two thousand eleven two thousand twelve, a team

452
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: of researchers named Hiroshi Kawase yoji Okata who also I

453
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: think is an underwater photographer who documented these these patterns,

454
00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:38,959
Speaker 1: and Kimiyaki Ito. They finally performed research to confirm the

455
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: origin and function of these underwater mystery circles. The results

456
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:47,919
Speaker 1: were published in Nature Scientific Reports. And here's what we

457
00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: found out. The real culprit is fish sex. Fish sex

458
00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,840
Speaker 1: always weirder than aliens. You're right, and we're never going

459
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,040
Speaker 1: to run out of amazement for fish sex. We talked

460
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,160
Speaker 1: about this with Mara Hart, like the marine marine reproduction

461
00:25:01,359 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 1: is just like it's the what's what's the magical thing?

462
00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:07,160
Speaker 1: The endless bag you just reach in and the bag

463
00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 1: of holding I guess or the magic well, yeah, you

464
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:13,879
Speaker 1: just never run out. There's always more interesting weird mating

465
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: and reproduction practices under the waves. Now certainly finished listening

466
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,680
Speaker 1: to this episode before you go in search of footage,

467
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 1: but there is some fabulous footage of what we're gonna

468
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 1: be talking about here in our devoted Attenborough viewers probably

469
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: guest from the very beginning because the fifth episode of

470
00:25:29,359 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: the six part TV series Life Stories from a couple

471
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,960
Speaker 1: of years back has some amazing footage of the circles

472
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: and then the fish sex responsible for it. If you're

473
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,159
Speaker 1: a Netflix viewer in the United States, then you have

474
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:45,919
Speaker 1: access to this show as of this recording. Did that

475
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,080
Speaker 1: come out? Yes? I believe you did. Yeah. I actually

476
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:51,639
Speaker 1: went and watched this, especially after you recommended it, and

477
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,680
Speaker 1: it is wonderful to watch. It's also kind of funny,

478
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: but be just beautifully filmed too, and they do a

479
00:25:57,000 --> 00:26:00,760
Speaker 1: great job revealing what has been created the sand. It's

480
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: a BBC Nature documentary. You know, they know how to

481
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:07,640
Speaker 1: do it. So specifically, these forbidden geometries were caused by

482
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 1: the mating rituals of a genus of puffer fishes called

483
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,639
Speaker 1: torqua jenner, which in Latin I believe means something about

484
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: making circles. I think like the Latin word torquise can

485
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,960
Speaker 1: be translated as necklace, but I'm not fully sure about

486
00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 1: that translation. I think there's something going on there anyway. Specifically,

487
00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: the species in question is now called Torqua jenner album maculosis,

488
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: or the white spotted puffer fish, and Robert IV included

489
00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 1: an image for us to look at here. I'm sorry

490
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:38,399
Speaker 1: you at home can't see it, but we'll do our

491
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,400
Speaker 1: best to describe it. He's a small but magnificent little specimen. Yeah,

492
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,280
Speaker 1: if you're looking up this episode at Stuff to Blow

493
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,840
Speaker 1: your Mind dot com, I will include uh an image

494
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,160
Speaker 1: of these fish below the fold. You know, so it's

495
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 1: not to spoil it for anybody, but you might look

496
00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:57,239
Speaker 1: at them and you're you're gonna instantly recognize that this

497
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 1: is some kind of of puffer fish. You know, they

498
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 1: the distinctive kind of head shape and face, and sometimes

499
00:27:03,920 --> 00:27:05,520
Speaker 1: it is very much like a face. If you've ever

500
00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,320
Speaker 1: been doing aquarium and you've got to take a picture

501
00:27:08,359 --> 00:27:10,800
Speaker 1: of them with your smartphone, sometimes it will do the

502
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:15,280
Speaker 1: like the little facial identification square over their little face. Yeah,

503
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,000
Speaker 1: or if you and then if it's yeah, they were like, oh,

504
00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:20,399
Speaker 1: I see the face. Let's let's frame this up. And

505
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 1: then when you go to put that photo on social media,

506
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: it may say, hey, don't you wanna tag the toadfish

507
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 1: here or auto tag isn't this your friend Jeffrey? Yeah,

508
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:32,880
Speaker 1: this is this is probably Jeffrey or harn or one

509
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: of these other people. Um. Now, one of the things

510
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:38,240
Speaker 1: THO is when you look at this particular puffer fish,

511
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: you might think, well, this this guy is not that flashy. Uh. Now,

512
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: to be fair, he's still a beautiful fish. All the

513
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 1: members of the family uh Tetrio Dante de Rio are beautiful.

514
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,560
Speaker 1: Because we're talking about puffer fish, puffers, balloon fish, blowfish,

515
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,600
Speaker 1: blow ease, bubble fish, globefish, swell fish, toadfish, toady's, honey toads,

516
00:27:59,680 --> 00:28:04,000
Speaker 1: sugar toads, and the mighty sea squab um. Now they

517
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: are related to porcupine fish, but they're not. But the

518
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,320
Speaker 1: porcupine fish are not actually part of this family. Still,

519
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:12,160
Speaker 1: they're they're all amazing creatures. So many of them are toxic.

520
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:16,200
Speaker 1: They can move their eyes independently, some can actually alter

521
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: their patterns for camouflage purposes, and puffers can of course

522
00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:23,320
Speaker 1: inflate their bodies with water or even air if they're

523
00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:26,560
Speaker 1: out of the water to form an imposing people to

524
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: take on the form of an imposing spiked sphere, you know,

525
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:32,359
Speaker 1: kind of like the head of a medieval mace. And

526
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:34,679
Speaker 1: is this the reason that they often look kind of

527
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: strangely shaped to begin with? Yeah, sometimes they have a

528
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,640
Speaker 1: very boxy appearance. But anyway, back back to t albu maculosis.

529
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 1: Here he's beautiful, but unlike the rest of the family,

530
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:49,320
Speaker 1: he's he's not that flashy. He doesn't have amazing glittering colorization,

531
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,800
Speaker 1: he doesn't have a bunch of cool spines. So when

532
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:53,920
Speaker 1: it comes to catching the eyes of the potential mate,

533
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: he has other tools up his sleeve, exactly right, And

534
00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:01,080
Speaker 1: that's where this underwater sign in the sand comes in.

535
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: If the male wants to mate, he carves the sacred sign.

536
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: It's like a like like a like a hoboglyph for

537
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: for breeding. Yeah, it's not except instead of like good

538
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: beans here or whatever, it's like good mating here. Uh

539
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,200
Speaker 1: So we've heard of males in the animal kingdom before

540
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 1: who advertise mating fitness with big tails or loud songs

541
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: or bright colors. But this, this building of what looks

542
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: like geometric hard in the sand of the seabed is

543
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,880
Speaker 1: a strange and fascinating form of mate attraction. Now, of course,

544
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: these puffer fish would not be the only animals that

545
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,880
Speaker 1: build a physical structure to attract mates. One example to

546
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 1: immediately comes to mind that we've talked about on the

547
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 1: show before is bower birds, where males build these elaborate

548
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 1: nests to attract females for mating. Yeah. And if you

549
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: want to talk about nature documentary superstars, that bower birds

550
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 1: have definitely enjoyed a lot of screen time. Yeah. They

551
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,120
Speaker 1: craft these these structures that entail form and color. Is

552
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,840
Speaker 1: that you know there are purely statements of fitness. They're

553
00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: not building structures to live in. It's all about communicating

554
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: with a potential mate. Another interesting thing about bower birds though,

555
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: that that sometimes I forget if I'm watching like one

556
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:17,960
Speaker 1: documentary covering one species and not another species is that

557
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: some species of bower bird are rather plain looking, kind

558
00:30:21,400 --> 00:30:24,720
Speaker 1: of fitting the uh you know, the the the form

559
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: we've been talking about here, a creature that is not

560
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,680
Speaker 1: flashy but does something flashy and yet at the same

561
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:32,960
Speaker 1: time you have creatures like the flame bower bird, which

562
00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 1: has has kind of the same color scheme as those

563
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:40,600
Speaker 1: bright orange dismemberment prone fieries and Jim Hanson's labyrinth. Do

564
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,920
Speaker 1: you remember those creatures. He looks to me like a

565
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:46,160
Speaker 1: Days of Thunder sunset. He does. Yeah, he looks. He's

566
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: actually's brighter than the fier He's he's brighter, just about

567
00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: brighter than any sunset I've seen. He looks as bright

568
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 1: as like the most obnoxious slushy you might purchase at

569
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 1: roadside slushy stand. He's something from that flipbook that to

570
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 1: the tables at Chili's. Yeah, exactly. So he's he's this

571
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: is already a really bright specimen. So it's almost kind

572
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 1: of amazing to realize that that he's going he's going

573
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 1: to step beyond, he's going to create this this impressive

574
00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:14,959
Speaker 1: bower to bring in a mate. Now, one interesting thing

575
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:17,360
Speaker 1: about bower birds is that, you know, you see this

576
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:20,360
Speaker 1: contrast between like flashy colors that they would show off,

577
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:22,800
Speaker 1: which are often a sign of like mate fitness that

578
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,640
Speaker 1: males can use to signal attractiveness to females, but also

579
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 1: building these nests is that I I have read that

580
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,240
Speaker 1: there is sometimes a trade off there, like the flashier

581
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 1: looking bower birds build less elaborate nests and the ones

582
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:40,120
Speaker 1: that look, let you know, more drab and have less

583
00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:44,120
Speaker 1: colors and stuff build more elaborate nests, presumably as like

584
00:31:44,120 --> 00:31:46,880
Speaker 1: a compensation mechanism. It's like, hey, I don't have all

585
00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: the you know, the flashy outfits, but I can build

586
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 1: a really good house. Well that's reassuring. It feels like

587
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 1: there's still some balance to the universe. Now. Another bird

588
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 1: that I really love for for its nest building capabilities

589
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,160
Speaker 1: as an advertisement of mate fitness is known as the

590
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:07,640
Speaker 1: brush turkey Alectura lethomi. And these these are pretty funny.

591
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,640
Speaker 1: I think they're one of my favorites. Um So, there

592
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: are species of megapode, which is the type of bird.

593
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,320
Speaker 1: Of course, megapode means huge foot, and the males of

594
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:21,640
Speaker 1: this species build these gigantic mounds of rotting compost, often

595
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 1: as big as a car like one to one point

596
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:27,840
Speaker 1: five meters high and four meters wide out of soil

597
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,440
Speaker 1: and dead plant matter and just rotting stuff. And these

598
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,480
Speaker 1: are nests they used to attract females, and they're not

599
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:37,640
Speaker 1: merely an esthetic statement, like, you know, why wouldn't you

600
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,000
Speaker 1: like to come hang out on my gigantic pile of

601
00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: rot The decomposition of dead stuff that's taking place in

602
00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: the mound actually generates a lot of heat which helps

603
00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 1: keep the females eggs warm when she lays them on

604
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,560
Speaker 1: the mound. She's chosen and they apparently the brush turkeys

605
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: even reportedly regulate the temperature of the mound by adding

606
00:32:57,560 --> 00:33:00,240
Speaker 1: a removing plant matter if the temperature isn't just right,

607
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:03,320
Speaker 1: it's brilliant. But as you can imagine, building like a

608
00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:07,120
Speaker 1: car sized amount of rotting plant matter is not an

609
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: easy task, you know. So a turkey does this, it

610
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,040
Speaker 1: might take him a month to do it, and it

611
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,960
Speaker 1: can basically like wear him to death to do this thing.

612
00:33:14,280 --> 00:33:16,440
Speaker 1: So you've got to think about the real stakes that

613
00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: are taking place in nature here. Just building this big

614
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,120
Speaker 1: compost heap to mate in. This is a This is

615
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,160
Speaker 1: a serious investment that could be thought of as like

616
00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 1: a life or death proposition. And this brings us back

617
00:33:27,760 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: to the white spotted puffer fish. What what are its reasons? Right?

618
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 1: Like what it's it's it's making an investment here of

619
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 1: what sort of investment? Yeah, exactly when you look at

620
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 1: these strange, ephemeral carvings in the loose sentiment of the

621
00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:44,760
Speaker 1: sea floor, what is the male puffer fish doing? And

622
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: why is the female attracted? And also, I mean consider

623
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: the amazing disparity in scale with the amount of work

624
00:33:52,320 --> 00:33:54,920
Speaker 1: we're talking about here, because these patterns that are carved

625
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,320
Speaker 1: in the sand are up to two meters across, which

626
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: is like six or seven feet. Meanwhile, this fish that

627
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:03,560
Speaker 1: makes them is only like ten to twelve centimeters long,

628
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 1: maybe about five inches. So to get a sense of

629
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,480
Speaker 1: the scale of this and the work involved, I want

630
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:12,120
Speaker 1: to quote our friend and recent guests on the show,

631
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 1: the marine biologist Mara Hart, from her book Sex in

632
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,560
Speaker 1: the Sea. She writes, quote, next time you visit a beach,

633
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:22,600
Speaker 1: imagine building a giant sand wheel with radiating spokes and

634
00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: troughs that stretch over one feet across. Now, imagine carving

635
00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 1: the whole thing by scooting around on your bottom, which

636
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: is basically what this male fish does. This tiny fish

637
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 1: that could fit in the palm of your hand, builds

638
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,240
Speaker 1: this giant elaborate artwork by rubbing its body and fins

639
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: along on the sand, vibrating its pectoral fins, anal fin,

640
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 1: and tail fin, and pushing its ventral surface which means

641
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:50,920
Speaker 1: it's underbelly, into the sand to sort of push it

642
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 1: down and forward. And after he's carved these peaks and

643
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:58,480
Speaker 1: valleys into the sand, he also further decorates the carving

644
00:34:58,520 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 1: with bits of material he lines, like coral and pieces

645
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: of seashell that go up on the along these radial lines. Apparently,

646
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:08,920
Speaker 1: this usually takes about a week of constant work to

647
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:11,839
Speaker 1: make the design like this. And as we've been saying,

648
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 1: it's like it's totally ephemeral. This nest that it builds

649
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,080
Speaker 1: in the sand will soon be churned away by the sea.

650
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: So why all this work now? One idea is that

651
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 1: this elaborate design helps the female find the male puffer fish, right,

652
00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:28,760
Speaker 1: because when you make a design like this, it creates

653
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:32,760
Speaker 1: an unnatural pattern of contrast and bright and dark patches

654
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,320
Speaker 1: along the seafloor and the sand attracts the female's eye

655
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,480
Speaker 1: on the otherwise monotonous bottom of the ocean. Right, It's

656
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,560
Speaker 1: it's like it's a roadside billboard advertising Hey here, I

657
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,160
Speaker 1: am right now. This might be part of the explanation.

658
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: It probably does help her see him, but it's clearly

659
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:51,799
Speaker 1: not all of it. So I want to refer to

660
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 1: a study by the authors I mentioned earlier, by uh Kawasi,

661
00:35:55,680 --> 00:36:00,239
Speaker 1: Okada and Itto. And this is their study from in

662
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 1: Scientific Reports, roll of huge geometric circular structures in the

663
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:09,439
Speaker 1: reproduction of a marine pufferfish. So the researchers here hypothesized,

664
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 1: based on their observations that something about the quality of

665
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:15,440
Speaker 1: the nest plays a role in mate choice, like you

666
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 1: build a better nest and you get a better chance

667
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:21,200
Speaker 1: at mating. But they had not identified what all of

668
00:36:21,239 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: those qualities of an attractive nest were. Though here's one

669
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,600
Speaker 1: possible element that comes out of their research. They found

670
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 1: that the creation of the structure is probably not just aesthetic.

671
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,600
Speaker 1: It's not just that the female likes the way it looks.

672
00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,400
Speaker 1: It actually does something. And what they found is that

673
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:41,799
Speaker 1: the process of digging the radial trenches, when the mail

674
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,399
Speaker 1: goes through and digs these radial lines that go out

675
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,200
Speaker 1: to make the outer circle of the pattern. It tends

676
00:36:48,239 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 1: to stir up fine grained particles of sand and helps

677
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: push them towards the center of the circle, so that

678
00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:59,439
Speaker 1: the finished product of this symbol, nest should contain very

679
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,320
Speaker 1: fine sediment at its hub. Now, if a female begins

680
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:06,480
Speaker 1: to approach the nest, the male will usually fan the

681
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:09,880
Speaker 1: central disk of this fine sediment to churn up a

682
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,960
Speaker 1: cloud in the water, and then he'll swim back and

683
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: forth through the cloud that he's churned up. And if

684
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,239
Speaker 1: the female likes what she sees, she will enter the

685
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:20,760
Speaker 1: nest area and travel to the center where these shallow

686
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:23,520
Speaker 1: designs and the finest sand particles are. And if she

687
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: does this, the male will usually dart back and forth

688
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 1: a few times around the nest in a display of

689
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 1: some kind. I remember in in the section in her book,

690
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: Maura Heart mentions that it's hard not to think of

691
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:36,880
Speaker 1: him being like, did you see this part? I made

692
00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:40,439
Speaker 1: this and this too? I mean he looks kind of proud. Yeah,

693
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 1: I mean that they're they're cute little fish. Yeah, I

694
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: mean they're they're cute little fish. It's very difficult not

695
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:48,080
Speaker 1: to anthropomorphizes them. Again. You're coming back to that that

696
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: their distinctive sort of head and face shape. Yeah, if

697
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:54,399
Speaker 1: the facial recognition algorithm in the computer has a hard

698
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,560
Speaker 1: time telling them from human, who knows what you know,

699
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,799
Speaker 1: we are very quick to look at an animal and

700
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: and see its behavior and think of it as human behavior.

701
00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 1: But anyway, if if she is enticed, she she goes

702
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: to the center with the fine sand and they spawn.

703
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: She lays her eggs among this fine grained sediment, and

704
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: then she leaves, and then the male stays behind with

705
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: the nest to guard the fertilized eggs. You know, a

706
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:19,320
Speaker 1: kind of beautiful twist here. He stays there to guard

707
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:23,960
Speaker 1: the eggs. As the nest essentially dissolves and deteriorates around him.

708
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,759
Speaker 1: All the art he has created is is steadily eroded.

709
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:31,840
Speaker 1: Now I should point out about the spawning that they'll

710
00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:34,319
Speaker 1: they'll do this thing where the male will will will

711
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 1: bite the female's cheek. I've seen some some pictures of this.

712
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 1: In fact, I'll probably include a picture of this at

713
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,560
Speaker 1: the bottom of the page and at stuff to bow

714
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:46,120
Speaker 1: your mind dot com. But it's kind of endearing because

715
00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:47,759
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, he's given her a love nibble. It's

716
00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: like a little kiss on the cheek. Now, another point

717
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,040
Speaker 1: in all of this is that some scientists think the

718
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:57,200
Speaker 1: ridges and grooves of the circle serve to minimize ocean

719
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,359
Speaker 1: current at the center of the nest, and us would

720
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:03,920
Speaker 1: protect the actual nest site from turbulence that might disturb

721
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,480
Speaker 1: the eggs and expose them to predators. So the turbulent,

722
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:10,839
Speaker 1: very turbulence that's eroding and destroying the circular artwork, it's

723
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: kind of taken a bullet for that central nesting area.

724
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: And I think also, if I understand correctly, that that

725
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: that protection from the ocean currents in the center also

726
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: helps keep the fine grain sand particles there that would

727
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:26,840
Speaker 1: normally be more easily washed away by the water currents.

728
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:30,640
Speaker 1: Now here's really interesting thing about these puffer fish. After

729
00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 1: they hatch and and the young disappear, the male does

730
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: not reuse the nest. Instead, he goes on to build

731
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,919
Speaker 1: a totally new nest for the next mating cycle, which

732
00:39:41,960 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: is a tremendous amount of work. Remember again, like trying

733
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,319
Speaker 1: to think about building a like hundred foot wide uh

734
00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:51,240
Speaker 1: symbol in the beach sand by dragging your butt along

735
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,080
Speaker 1: like that. It's just like, why go through all that

736
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,600
Speaker 1: work while the old nest just continually gets washed away

737
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: into nothing Like we we don't I think often appreciate

738
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 1: how much of a risky investment building big nests is

739
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: for some animals in the wild. Like humans, you know,

740
00:40:07,520 --> 00:40:10,600
Speaker 1: we go to the gym to intentionally burn calories in

741
00:40:10,680 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 1: productless labor. Uh. For a fish living on the edge

742
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: of a wild energy economy, the amount of work it

743
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,520
Speaker 1: takes to build an elaborate nest could potentially kill you.

744
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: It's kind of it's kind of like if what if

745
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,799
Speaker 1: humans in order to mate each of his head to

746
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: make a concept album, like it was just required, Like

747
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,560
Speaker 1: you weren't even gonna have a shot unless you you

748
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 1: fully rode and produce and like brought in sessions musicians

749
00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 1: and and commission artwork and just had the full package.

750
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:42,320
Speaker 1: And that was your communication to potential mates in the world.

751
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,200
Speaker 1: You might go bankrupt during the process. You might get

752
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:49,800
Speaker 1: terrible reviews. Friendship. This is my prog rock concept album

753
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:53,680
Speaker 1: about the sill Marillion exactly, truly, it is the only

754
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: way to stand out. That's right. Reproductive fitness h exemplified there.

755
00:40:58,760 --> 00:41:01,960
Speaker 1: But anyway, Yeah, so with this question for the puffer fish,

756
00:41:02,000 --> 00:41:05,640
Speaker 1: like why make the rock opera album about the Silmarillion

757
00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 1: new each time. Why not just like sort of like

758
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:12,279
Speaker 1: touch up the last concept album you made. Yeah, we do,

759
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 1: like everybody most acts do, right, just do slightly retweaking

760
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:19,560
Speaker 1: of what came before. Just do the sequel. And the

761
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: authors suggests that what's going on here is probably that

762
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: the process of mating. And then what's happening while you

763
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: know the eggs are they're waiting to hatch. It depletes

764
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,520
Speaker 1: the nest of these fine grained sand particles, which are

765
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: somehow crucial for the female's eggs. That would make sense.

766
00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: He has engineered this local environment and uh and and

767
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 1: now he needs to re engineer another. It's kind of

768
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,720
Speaker 1: it's like he's cut down the forest, built the love hut.

769
00:41:46,000 --> 00:41:47,919
Speaker 1: The love hut is gone. Now he needs to find

770
00:41:47,960 --> 00:41:51,919
Speaker 1: a new virgin forest to uh to to to recreate

771
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,759
Speaker 1: in his image. Yeah. Now, another study I just looked

772
00:41:54,800 --> 00:41:57,240
Speaker 1: at very quickly that I thought was kind of interesting

773
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,360
Speaker 1: was also in scientific reports. It was us here in

774
00:42:00,760 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: eighteen by Missuchi, Kawasa, shin Away and Condo. And this

775
00:42:06,440 --> 00:42:09,359
Speaker 1: was called simple Rules for construction of a geometric nest

776
00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,280
Speaker 1: structure by puffer Fish. This answer is the question, Okay,

777
00:42:12,360 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 1: something must be happening in the fish's brain to tell

778
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,960
Speaker 1: it how to build this underwater. You know posidogram, right,

779
00:42:18,239 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: So what's happening? And the study observed and formalized rules

780
00:42:21,560 --> 00:42:23,920
Speaker 1: for the creation of the nest sites, which it turned

781
00:42:23,920 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 1: out are actually a pretty simple algorithm that they were

782
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,840
Speaker 1: able to recreate with a computer program. This kind of

783
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,280
Speaker 1: reminds me of how we discussed in our episode about

784
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:37,000
Speaker 1: spiders building webs how I really relatively simple list of

785
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,560
Speaker 1: rules can lead to beautiful and haunting designs in nature,

786
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:43,880
Speaker 1: Like the algorithm itself for the creation of a structure

787
00:42:43,880 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: by an animal doesn't have to be complex to create

788
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:51,080
Speaker 1: an emergently complex final structure that that looks very impressive

789
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: to us. I mean, I imagine a lot of it

790
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 1: comes down to repetition. I mean, that's what we're seeing.

791
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,960
Speaker 1: We're seeing patterns. We're seeing pattern patterns in the sand,

792
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,000
Speaker 1: in the crops, what have you. But when you think

793
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: about the attractiveness of patterns like this, say, what does

794
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,200
Speaker 1: the female see when she makes the choice? You know,

795
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,239
Speaker 1: she's she looks at one nest versus another nest and

796
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 1: goes to one instead of the other, or simply goes

797
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,920
Speaker 1: toward one but is not attracted enough to go to

798
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:18,919
Speaker 1: you know, another one she comes across. I think about

799
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: these questions, like humans show broad preferences for certain kinds

800
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,080
Speaker 1: of abstract geometrical shapes and figures over others. For example,

801
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:32,720
Speaker 1: studies show that we broadly prefer curved and symmetrical shapes

802
00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,520
Speaker 1: over sharp, angled and asymmetrical shapes. And sometimes I wonder, like,

803
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:39,360
Speaker 1: I don't know the answer to this, but I wonder

804
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: how deep do these preferences go. Is it possible that

805
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 1: animals with even you know, much simpler nervous systems like fish,

806
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 1: for instance, also have similar preferences in in abstract geometric shapes.

807
00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: Not just that I, you know, have an avoidance behavior

808
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,840
Speaker 1: when I see something that resembles a predator versus I

809
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: have an approach behavior when I see something that resembles

810
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,920
Speaker 1: a mating opportunity or food. Do they have more generalized

811
00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:10,120
Speaker 1: like just geometric preference is rooted in the same kind

812
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 1: of deep elements that we have, like in our shared

813
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: evolutionary history. Yeah, I mean, I can't come, we can't help,

814
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:17,440
Speaker 1: but come back to the fact that when we look

815
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:20,400
Speaker 1: at these designs, that these puffer fish have created like

816
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:24,520
Speaker 1: they are alluring to us. They captivate our imagination. Is

817
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 1: that a coincidence? Well, now that that's always a tricky

818
00:44:27,360 --> 00:44:31,359
Speaker 1: question when you start dealing with weird circles. You know,

819
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:36,200
Speaker 1: you know, you know, maybe it is a coincidence. You

820
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: don't want to go too far down the road of saying, oh,

821
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: it's not a coincidence. It is intended. It is part

822
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: of the grand design that these are the aliens speaking

823
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 1: to me. You're misinterpreting, Robert. I. I do not mean

824
00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 1: like that. I don't mean designed. I mean like is

825
00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:56,120
Speaker 1: is some deep trigger in our brain that makes us

826
00:44:56,239 --> 00:44:59,080
Speaker 1: like these rounded shapes with the maze like patterns and

827
00:44:59,120 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: the radial design, and that's highly symmetrical. Do we basically

828
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,360
Speaker 1: have uh an approach type reaction in the brain? You know,

829
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,960
Speaker 1: it's the basis of our general favorability ideas and approach

830
00:45:10,000 --> 00:45:13,239
Speaker 1: type reaction in the brain the same way that a

831
00:45:13,440 --> 00:45:17,120
Speaker 1: female puffer fish would. Is there a similar mechanism underlying

832
00:45:17,160 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: it in the two brains that could even have something

833
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,239
Speaker 1: to do with shared ancestry or is it just a

834
00:45:21,239 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: coincidence that you know a pufferfish likes this design? And

835
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:27,040
Speaker 1: we also like this design. I'm sure it could be

836
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: a coincidence. I just wonder. Yeah, I mean, well, you know,

837
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,600
Speaker 1: undoubtedly they've been studies that have shown that humans have

838
00:45:32,719 --> 00:45:37,799
Speaker 1: a preference for, say, our architectural designs that appear more

839
00:45:37,840 --> 00:45:40,520
Speaker 1: like nature, that have more natural shapes and you don't

840
00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:43,600
Speaker 1: look like giant boxes that have fallen out of the sky. Yeah,

841
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: that's true. I mean I feel like you just always

842
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: have to wonder about the what what's causing these types

843
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: of attractions and other animals, you know. Thomas Nagel famously

844
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:54,600
Speaker 1: wrote about, you know, you can't understand what it's like

845
00:45:54,680 --> 00:45:58,400
Speaker 1: to be about um, but I wonder or maybe in

846
00:45:58,440 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 1: some ways you can understand what it's like to be

847
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:02,640
Speaker 1: a puffer fish. You can't fully understand it, but you

848
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 1: might have some of the same drives that exist for

849
00:46:05,880 --> 00:46:08,239
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of millions of years. Well, then others

850
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:09,920
Speaker 1: would say that there is no what it is to

851
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,400
Speaker 1: be a puffer fish, right, I mean, it's just that

852
00:46:12,440 --> 00:46:15,480
Speaker 1: the puffer fish is as a state, is something that

853
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:18,040
Speaker 1: we can try and put our minds into. But it's

854
00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:21,680
Speaker 1: it's ultimately and it's it's it's it's kind of like

855
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,640
Speaker 1: trying to to grab the sand pattern. Right. Oh, you're

856
00:46:24,640 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: backing me into a corner of making me believe that

857
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: you are just producing words that pretend they came from

858
00:46:30,239 --> 00:46:35,120
Speaker 1: a mind. Well, you know, there's that that old philosophical argument. Uh,

859
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 1: if if you've never wondered what it's like to be

860
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,480
Speaker 1: a puffer fish, and congratulations you are a puffer fiit

861
00:46:41,239 --> 00:46:43,800
Speaker 1: I just made that one up. And if you've never

862
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,880
Speaker 1: wondered what it's like to be a radial trench and

863
00:46:45,880 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: a puffer fish nest, you know what it's like is

864
00:46:48,680 --> 00:46:52,959
Speaker 1: just anal fin all over you. Alright, Well we're gonna

865
00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:55,080
Speaker 1: close it out right there. We've we've solved the mystery,

866
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: or we didn't solve the mystery. Um Marine biologists solved

867
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,680
Speaker 1: the mystery, but we have a present into the mystery

868
00:47:00,719 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 1: and presented the solution in this podcast. Now with our

869
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,600
Speaker 1: question for everyone out there is, hey, would you like

870
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: more episodes about undersea mysteries? We could do that. There's

871
00:47:10,160 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 1: there are plenty out there. Maybe we could come back

872
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: and talk about some of these uh alleged underwater ruins

873
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:19,400
Speaker 1: or strange structures and forms that have been detected and

874
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:22,560
Speaker 1: what some of the more plausible explanations are uh that

875
00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,839
Speaker 1: don't involve Atlantis. Oh, Robert, you just made me think

876
00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:28,399
Speaker 1: that even though Atlantis is a false trail, the whole

877
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 1: phenomenon of supposedly disappearing islands is something interesting we can

878
00:47:32,719 --> 00:47:34,880
Speaker 1: visit in the future. Oh yeah, I'm always up for

879
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: some sunken uh cities and and and lost islands for sure. Um,

880
00:47:40,400 --> 00:47:43,720
Speaker 1: speaking of of underwater mysteries and uh and and so forth.

881
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 1: Some of you might be thinking, Hey, Robert, you what

882
00:47:46,200 --> 00:47:50,319
Speaker 1: happened about that show Transgenesis you were talking about. We

883
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: did a bunch of ocean stuff to get ready for that. Yeah. Well,

884
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: the thing is that the show uh was and is

885
00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:59,480
Speaker 1: ready to go, but we were asked to hold off

886
00:47:59,480 --> 00:48:02,960
Speaker 1: on publish sing it for purely marketing reasons. So and

887
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:06,759
Speaker 1: I apologize for anyone um who encountered some confusion over that.

888
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,000
Speaker 1: But the show is still coming. I'm so excited to

889
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,839
Speaker 1: hear it, and you should be to keep an eye

890
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:14,640
Speaker 1: out also if you want to listen to something else.

891
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,800
Speaker 1: So besides stuff to blow your mind, check out Invention.

892
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 1: That is the other show that Joe and I put

893
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:23,480
Speaker 1: together every week. It is a journey through techno history

894
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: it's a look at the various inventions, big and small,

895
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: elaborate and simple or seemingly simple or seemingly elaborate, spending

896
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,000
Speaker 1: on which one you know. We're looking at all these

897
00:48:34,120 --> 00:48:37,440
Speaker 1: inventions that have changed the course of history and change

898
00:48:37,880 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: the shape of human experience. Definitely check it out. If

899
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:43,279
Speaker 1: you like this show, we think you'll like that show too,

900
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: so go over to Invention, subscribe, check out our episodes,

901
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,320
Speaker 1: and in the meantime, head on over to stuff to

902
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,040
Speaker 1: Blow your Mind dot com. That's the mothership. That's where

903
00:48:51,040 --> 00:48:53,520
Speaker 1: we'll find all of Stuff to Blow your minds episodes,

904
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: you'll find links out to social media accounts. Hey, on Facebook,

905
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,920
Speaker 1: you'll find our group. It is called the Stuff to

906
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,000
Speaker 1: Blow Your Mind Discussion Module. It's a great place to

907
00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 1: talk about Stuff to Blow your Mind episodes, Invention episodes,

908
00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:09,879
Speaker 1: ask us questions, suggest episodes for the future. That's where

909
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:13,480
Speaker 1: all of that goes down, and again, rate and review

910
00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:16,000
Speaker 1: wherever you have a chance to do so. That is

911
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:18,319
Speaker 1: the best way to support our shows. Big thanks as

912
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:22,360
Speaker 1: always to our excellent audio producers Alex Williams and Tory Harrison.

913
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: If you would like to get in touch with us

914
00:49:24,239 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: directly with feedback about this episode or any other, to

915
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:29,520
Speaker 1: suggest a topic for the future, or just to say hello.

916
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 1: You can email us at blow the Mind at how

917
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands

918
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:56,160
Speaker 1: of other topics. Is it how stuff works dot com.

919
00:49:56,239 --> 00:50:12,600
Speaker 1: Bl oh Man, you know, Joe, I realized we closed

920
00:50:12,600 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: out the episode and I never got back around a

921
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,319
Speaker 1: big Foot, you monster, I know, knowing what we know

922
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:22,719
Speaker 1: now about about these these mysterious ce circles and the

923
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: culprit behind them. Could crop circles? Couldn't? Could An alternative

924
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:31,960
Speaker 1: explanation couldn't have been that Bigfoot monster sasquatches and their

925
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:35,480
Speaker 1: their their kin. We're going out into fields and creating

926
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:40,120
Speaker 1: mating circles to draw in other cryptids to mate with

927
00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:42,920
Speaker 1: right there at the center of the of the crop circle.

928
00:50:43,320 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 1: That's how you get those squatch a cobras. Yes, anyway,

929
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: I'll leave everybody else out there to uh to to

930
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,520
Speaker 1: to think about and visualize all of this. But I

931
00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,480
Speaker 1: said I was going to bring it back to big

932
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 1: big Foot later on in the episode. I just wanted

933
00:50:56,400 --> 00:50:58,400
Speaker 1: to make sure we close that out for you. If

934
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:02,440
Speaker 1: you're the person who makes the Sharknado movies, squat Chicabra

935
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:05,400
Speaker 1: comes next. If you disappoint me, I'm going to shame

936
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:07,560
Speaker 1: you on this podcast to the end of time.