1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:03,200 Speaker 1: The more we learn about COVID nineteen, the more questions 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: and worries we have. Cal Hope can help with free 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,959 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen emotional support. Call eight three three three one 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,440 Speaker 1: seven four, six seven three or live chat at cal 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: hope dot org Today. The more we learn about COVID nineteen, 6 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: the more questions we have. The biggest question now, what's next? 7 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:30,120 Speaker 1: What will COVID bring in six months a year? If 8 00:00:30,160 --> 00:00:33,680 Speaker 1: you're feeling anxious about the future, You're not alone. Cal 9 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,240 Speaker 1: Hope offers free COVID nineteen emotional support. Call eight three 10 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: three three one seven four six seven three or live 11 00:00:42,760 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: chat at cal hope dot org today. Advertising is online 12 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 1: and delivered where you are. Just like this radio ad. 13 00:00:51,080 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 1: I want to know what else is delivered where you are. 14 00:00:53,560 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 1: We'll give you a hint. It's shiny as a honk 15 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:59,000 Speaker 1: and comes with special features that you get to personally 16 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,959 Speaker 1: pick out, like other or cloth. It's unroof or moonroof, 17 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: or four wheel drivers, all wheel drive. Yeah, a car, 18 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:08,520 Speaker 1: A CarMax car, buy online, get it delivered to you. 19 00:01:08,840 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 1: It's car buying reimagined Carmacks available within a sixty mile 20 00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,200 Speaker 1: radius of select doors. See carmacks dot com for details. 21 00:01:15,240 --> 00:01:19,480 Speaker 1: Some restrictions apply. When you go into a gallery, you 22 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:21,120 Speaker 1: go into a museum, and you look at a painting, 23 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,120 Speaker 1: you don't know what the story is behind the painting. 24 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: It's like seeing somebody in the street who's an old man. 25 00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,160 Speaker 1: You don't know all the adventures he's had, and all 26 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 1: the marriages he's had, and all the divorces he's had. 27 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: My name is Aaron Richard Gollub. I'm an attorney licensed 28 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: to practice law in the state of New York, and 29 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 1: my concentration is art world issues. I had a case 30 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 1: years ago involving a portrait of Coloma Picasso by Picasso, 31 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 1: and there were two precisely the same portraits of Picasso's daughter, 32 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 1: one owned by a dealer in Spain and one owned 33 00:01:57,040 --> 00:02:01,520 Speaker 1: by a collector in Switzerland. They were idea entacle. Claude 34 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: Picasso came over to the gallery and unpacked the painting 35 00:02:07,040 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: that Cogozian was about to show in a Picasso show, 36 00:02:09,919 --> 00:02:13,519 Speaker 1: and Claude said, well, the nails are rusted that attacked 37 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 1: the canvas to the stretcher on this painting, and on 38 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 1: the other painting the nails are not rusted, and that 39 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: was his basis of saying that one picture was a 40 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,760 Speaker 1: counterfeit and the other picture was not. I don't think 41 00:02:24,760 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: that's a basis to determine authenticity. Authenticity can fall under 42 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 1: the general rubric of fraud, but authenticity is a world 43 00:02:34,160 --> 00:02:38,280 Speaker 1: in and of itself where painting has been counterfeited. Somebody 44 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: has made a painting and claims it's by a certain 45 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:46,040 Speaker 1: artist in that style of the artist, and in fact 46 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,520 Speaker 1: that artist never made that painting. Now if somebody sells 47 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,399 Speaker 1: you that painting and claims that that painting is by 48 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:57,960 Speaker 1: a Matisse or it's by Warhole, and it's not, that's fraud, 49 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: but it's actually really counterfeit. It is what you're going 50 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,320 Speaker 1: to have to prove. People are always fooling everybody in 51 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 1: the art world. It's a place where that game is 52 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: played by everybody. And Friedman would never have imagined growing 53 00:03:13,040 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 1: up to be the most notorious dealer of the New 54 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:20,480 Speaker 1: York art market. She might have been an art professor, perhaps, 55 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: but as her career blossomed and she came to see 56 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:27,520 Speaker 1: just how good she was at selling art, being a 57 00:03:27,560 --> 00:03:31,839 Speaker 1: dealer suited her quite well, and not just a run 58 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,680 Speaker 1: of the mill dealer to be sure, but one of distinction, 59 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: helping artists and collectors she loved. She was born and 60 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: Louise Fertig in the early nineteen fifties in Scarsdale, a 61 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:49,800 Speaker 1: wealthy bedroom community north of New York City. Her father 62 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 1: was a vice president of a commercial real estate company 63 00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 1: called Williams and Company, perhaps not by chance, and would 64 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,600 Speaker 1: marry a commercial real estate executive herself, Robert Lawrence Freedman 65 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: real Men and told one of her staffers worked in commercial, 66 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: not residential real estate. Two people in Anne Friedman's life 67 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: would play an instrumental role in inspiring her art career. 68 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:20,880 Speaker 1: The first was her mother, Hilda Fertig, who first brought 69 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:24,040 Speaker 1: Anne to New York City's art museums as a child. 70 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: The other was H. W. Jansen, the legendary author of 71 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: the History of Art, the standard text for millions of 72 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:37,760 Speaker 1: students around the world. Jansen was a Russian emigre. Through 73 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 1: the nineteen forties, he taught at Washington University in St. 74 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 1: Louis and helped expand the breadth of these school's art collection. 75 00:04:47,480 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: He left a legacy for generations of students to admire, 76 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:54,880 Speaker 1: though not without controversy. Not a single female artist was 77 00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 1: described in his epic tone. Anne Freedman would become one 78 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: of those captivated new students upon her own arrival at 79 00:05:04,440 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 1: Washington University in the late nineteen sixties, earning a Bachelor 80 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: of Fine Arts degree in the summer of nineteen seventy one. 81 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 1: When Anne graduated, finding gainful employment wasn't easy. New York 82 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:22,240 Speaker 1: was on the verge of a nasty recession. Somehow, Anne 83 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 1: managed to reach Robert Miller, a senior director of the 84 00:05:25,600 --> 00:05:29,039 Speaker 1: American Gallery on fifty seventh Street, and talked him into 85 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:32,640 Speaker 1: granting her a job interview. Whatever she said at the meeting, 86 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 1: it worked. Friedman began working as a receptionist at the 87 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:40,760 Speaker 1: Emeric and immersed herself in the color field painters for 88 00:05:40,839 --> 00:05:44,960 Speaker 1: which it was known abstract expressionists of a softer school 89 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: like Maurice Lewis and Helen Frankenthaler, with their broad washes 90 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: of color, as opposed to the bold, almost brutal strokes 91 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,480 Speaker 1: of the action painters like Jackson Pollock and William Dacooning. 92 00:05:58,480 --> 00:06:03,040 Speaker 1: Here's writer Michael shne Yerson, and starting salary was five 93 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,400 Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year or a hundred dollars a week. 94 00:06:05,839 --> 00:06:08,720 Speaker 1: It was typical pay for newcomers in the world where 95 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 1: wealthy parents who were expected to do their part. Eager 96 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: and perhaps somewhat desperate and began overstepping her lowly tasks 97 00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 1: and started actually selling art. And she was successful, so 98 00:06:21,080 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: much so that her boss was thunderstruck. As Anne said 99 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: herself in one of my interviews with her for Vanity Fair, 100 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:30,240 Speaker 1: she said, Andre started seeing more and more invoices on 101 00:06:30,320 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: his desk than he ever could have imagined. There was 102 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,040 Speaker 1: a sense of some disbelief, if not resentment. No one 103 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: paved the way for me to sell, but I sought 104 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: out the opportunity and I never looked back. Her personal 105 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:49,360 Speaker 1: life was bossoming as well. Anne would marry her fiancee, 106 00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: Robert Friedman, on Christmas Day. A Long Island Rabbi Jack 107 00:06:54,680 --> 00:06:58,880 Speaker 1: Stern performed the ceremony at Manhattan's Regency Hotel. Anne and 108 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:01,360 Speaker 1: Robert would have a daughter, Jessica, and moved to an 109 00:07:01,360 --> 00:07:10,040 Speaker 1: apartment on East Street, where they still live. Despite her 110 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: early successes both personally and professionally, it would be fair 111 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: to say that Anne wasn't embraced by her colleagues at 112 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:23,280 Speaker 1: the Emeric Gallery. She glowed with ambition and showed little 113 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:27,920 Speaker 1: interest in making new friends. Rumor had it that one 114 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: of Anne's colleagues threw a typewriter at her. Another time, 115 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:35,640 Speaker 1: the owner of the gallery, andre Emrick, returned to New 116 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: York from a trip to London with little gifts for 117 00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,040 Speaker 1: his staffers. Emeric announced that his gift to Anne was 118 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: a Rose Royce. Supposedly, she raced to the window to 119 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 1: see if there was a real one parked on the street. 120 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: Those were the kinds of expectations she had, The staffer said, 121 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:57,560 Speaker 1: it was, of course a little toy. She was very ambitious. 122 00:07:57,720 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: People at the gallery hated her. Emeric widow, Suzanne, said 123 00:08:02,200 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 1: the galleries registrar once wrote to owner andre Emrick about 124 00:08:06,360 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 1: Anne and how she behaved when he was gone. She 125 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: was vicious, the registrar fumed. While Anne was rising at Emeric, 126 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,640 Speaker 1: another young ambitious staffer was a step ahead of her 127 00:08:21,960 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: at the Knoedler Gallery. Leslie Feeley came to Ndler in 128 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: one with the legendary dealer Larry Ruben when the armand 129 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: hammer era of Ndler ownership began. By this time, the 130 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:40,160 Speaker 1: Knodler was no longer the most venerable gallery in New 131 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 1: York those days, were long gone. By one the gallery 132 00:08:45,280 --> 00:08:49,280 Speaker 1: had slumped to a third rate institution, with artists like 133 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: Leroy Nieman, who was most well known for depicting bright, 134 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 1: splashy sports scenes with crowd pleasing speed. The longtime dealer 135 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,960 Speaker 1: Richard Fagen famously said that armand Hammer bought a cadaver 136 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:07,520 Speaker 1: when he bought the Knodler. As Leslie Feely recalled, the 137 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,080 Speaker 1: Knoedler had no contemporary art at that point in the 138 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,880 Speaker 1: early nineteen seventies. I never thought of Nodler. I don't 139 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:18,680 Speaker 1: think it was active. Armand Hammer needed a dealer who 140 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:22,960 Speaker 1: could help bring prestige and clients back to Knoedler. In 141 00:09:23,080 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 1: Larry Reuben. He'd found his man. Starting with the brilliant 142 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: Frank Stella and Kenneth Noland. Reuben was proving his value 143 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:34,920 Speaker 1: to Nodler and armand Hammer right away. He also brought 144 00:09:35,000 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 1: in Richard Debencorne, the great abstract landscape painter. That's why 145 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: he signed up Larry. For the artists, Leslie Feely and 146 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: Larry came in together. That's Joe Stevens. Joe was the 147 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: Nodler's art handler. My main job was I was the 148 00:09:53,120 --> 00:09:57,600 Speaker 1: shipping manager and the head preparator of all the artwork 149 00:09:58,000 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 1: and hanging shows. Leslie was Larry's partner assistant. She was 150 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:08,200 Speaker 1: on a higher level. She sold at work. Leslie worked 151 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,199 Speaker 1: at Adler for nearly half a decade until she left 152 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:15,959 Speaker 1: abruptly in n As. Leslie said armand Hammer didn't keep 153 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: his word with her. He'd offered up her compensation for 154 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: artwork sold. She said yes on a Friday. On Monday 155 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: he came back and said, I'm sorry, I can't give 156 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 1: you that deal. With that, Leslie left to become an 157 00:10:27,720 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 1: independent dealer on her own. I opened to gallery when 158 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:35,120 Speaker 1: Frank Gary built gallery for me. I mean he was 159 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 1: my architect. He's terrivic friend. I think, a great architect. 160 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 1: And it was a very beautiful gallery on sixty eight 161 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:46,559 Speaker 1: and Madison. That was when Anne became Larry Rubin's right hand, 162 00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: taking Leslie's place, and then Ann Freedman came in and 163 00:10:54,760 --> 00:11:01,320 Speaker 1: the changes were happening. She was the receptionist, very knowledgeable woman. 164 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 1: You know, she knew her stuff and she had that 165 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: I always called it the gifted gap. She was incredible talker. 166 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: What change did you observe? Well, she didn't move up, 167 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: you know, she went move right up, she get out, 168 00:11:15,280 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 1: and she wand up at getting her own office. Since 169 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 1: she started selling artwork, often vying for paintings with her 170 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: from outside the gallery, Leslie would come to know an 171 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: Freedman style of business all too well. Almost from the beginning, 172 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 1: it sounds like you've got a sense of this woman 173 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:38,160 Speaker 1: not only as abrasive and difficult and unpleasant, but someone 174 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: who was, you know, willing to do anything to make 175 00:11:41,640 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 1: a profit. Absolutely, it was in the fall of nineteen 176 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,240 Speaker 1: seventy seven when Leslie left the Notler, with an eager 177 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:55,719 Speaker 1: and Friedman stepping in to take her place. After her departure, 178 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:59,280 Speaker 1: Leslie's dealings with Larry Reuben on works by the artist 179 00:11:59,360 --> 00:12:02,200 Speaker 1: which are deep in corn came from outside the gallery. 180 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 1: The work was beautiful, anyone could see that, but the 181 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 1: heat of deep in Corns market was also due to 182 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:15,040 Speaker 1: the way he worked. He would produce a dozens of 183 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: ocean park paintings and drawings, then send them in one 184 00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:22,679 Speaker 1: great clump to Knoedler dealer. Larry Reuben would earmark new 185 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 1: paintings for his favorite clients, many of them dealers themselves. 186 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: Leslie Feely was lucky enough to be on that list 187 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,120 Speaker 1: to Anne's intense irritation. There was nothing she could do 188 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 1: to keep Larry from allocating a Deep in Corn to 189 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 1: Leslie when one of those batches of new work came in. 190 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,760 Speaker 1: I think I bought a Deep and Corn in every 191 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,760 Speaker 1: Deep in Corn show. I was still friendly with Larry, 192 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: which was good, and I was friendly with the deepon Corns, 193 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: and I loved his work, and it was so exciting 194 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:58,240 Speaker 1: for me to buy one. One staffer at Ndler said 195 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:00,880 Speaker 1: that opening those Deep in Corn and shipments was like 196 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:05,080 Speaker 1: opening presents on Christmas morning. The paintings would be all 197 00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,480 Speaker 1: lined up. These were the days when an ocean park 198 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:13,679 Speaker 1: crossed maybe eighteen to dollars. Larry would let Ann Friedman 199 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 1: have first pick. The staffer later said to Larry, why 200 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:21,360 Speaker 1: let Anne have first choice? Because Ruben said, with a laugh, 201 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: I know she'll pick the worst one. Would she be 202 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 1: buying Deep in Corns as well? Well? She must have. 203 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:32,280 Speaker 1: I don't think she had a particularly good relationship with 204 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:38,240 Speaker 1: the artist, or the wife or the children. Who were 205 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: you know who ended up managing these days soon enough, 206 00:13:43,679 --> 00:13:47,200 Speaker 1: to the shock of the gallery staff, and acquired the 207 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,480 Speaker 1: title of head of Contemporary Art Sales. She felt she'd 208 00:13:51,520 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: paid her dues as the front receptionist and demanded a 209 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: position of greater distinction. The title was quite a leap, perhaps, 210 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: but her sales skills were being noticed. She was known 211 00:14:03,559 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 1: as the rainmaker. That's artist Michael David. Michael came to 212 00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: Ndler as a client of the gallery in a collector 213 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: introduced my work to end and then and and Larry 214 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 1: came to the studio. There was this desire to find 215 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 1: young artists at that point, and I think that Larry 216 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: liked me, not so much for the work at that point, 217 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:26,880 Speaker 1: but because of the way I spoke, in the speed 218 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 1: of my speaking reminds him of Frank Stella. I know 219 00:14:30,760 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 1: that there was a hierarchy of floors. You go past 220 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,800 Speaker 1: that red velvet rope and then there'll be one floor, 221 00:14:36,840 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: and then it would be Ant's officer in Larry's office, 222 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:43,280 Speaker 1: and Larry would focus more on the higher end blue 223 00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 1: chip and Ann would do more of the volume selling. 224 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: That was my impression. Joe Stevens remembers what it was 225 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 1: like handling art for private meetings with Ann's clients. Atle 226 00:14:57,000 --> 00:15:00,440 Speaker 1: she had a huge supply of artwork in her office 227 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 1: was always painted and taken care of and you know 228 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: she had six French windows overlooking seventy Street. He had 229 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: a big, huge office. You know, she had a couch 230 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: in front of it, sat down with the clients. Very 231 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: convenient and well done. You know. It was always a 232 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: very clean and immaculate and we used to come up 233 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 1: and you know, you have the two people have to 234 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: pull out one of these big motherwells, you know, so 235 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 1: you know, put it right back and pull out at 236 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,720 Speaker 1: all this It was kind of really cool to do 237 00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: that because I'm listening to how what they're paying for 238 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 1: these things, and I'm going, you know, it was an 239 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:41,280 Speaker 1: incredible a mans of money that these people paid for him. 240 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,880 Speaker 1: Here's artist Michael David. Again. There was also a thing 241 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:46,720 Speaker 1: that you know, there was always you know, we don't 242 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 1: sell work. We place work, and you know we'll always 243 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: take the work back. Was it true? Could you decide 244 00:15:54,520 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: you didn't like a stella and bring it back and 245 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: get your money back. I don't think that you get 246 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: your money back. I think they would make efforts to 247 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,520 Speaker 1: sell it for you. Interestingly, in my Vanity Fair story, 248 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:10,760 Speaker 1: Michael David had described Anne rather more sharply. He said 249 00:16:10,800 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: she wasn't someone you wanted to play poker with, or 250 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: someone you wanted to cross. She's a complicated person. She 251 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: was great at what she did. I never saw evidence 252 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:22,880 Speaker 1: of her being unethical. She had an edge, she took 253 00:16:22,880 --> 00:16:26,240 Speaker 1: no prisoners, and she could be vindictive. I think for 254 00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:29,240 Speaker 1: her it was always about making it rain. I think 255 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,040 Speaker 1: that was how she defined herself. That may have been 256 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,520 Speaker 1: a fatal flaw that led her not to be as 257 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:38,640 Speaker 1: mindful as she should have been. But at some point 258 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,920 Speaker 1: after the Vanity Fair story appeared, Anne had taken Michael 259 00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: David to lunch more than once and conveyed how hurt 260 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: she had been to be called vindictive, and so David's 261 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: portrait of her had softened over the years. For Noodler's artists, 262 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 1: like Michael David, art was never anything less than a business. 263 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:02,120 Speaker 1: But how did the money change hands between the buyer, 264 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: the seller and the artist. That's after the break. What's up, guys? 265 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: I'm a Shop Bloud and I am Troy Millions and 266 00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:17,160 Speaker 1: we are the host of the Earn Your Leisure podcast 267 00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: where we break down business models and examine the latest 268 00:17:20,240 --> 00:17:23,080 Speaker 1: trends and finance. We hold court and have exclusive interviews 269 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:24,800 Speaker 1: with some of the biggest names of business, sport, and 270 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,879 Speaker 1: entertainment from DJ Khaled to Mark Cuban, Rick Ross, and 271 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:30,880 Speaker 1: Shaquille O'Neil. I mean our alumni list is expansive. Listen 272 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: in as our guests reveal their business models, hardships and 273 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,760 Speaker 1: triumphs and their respective fields. The knowledge is in death 274 00:17:35,760 --> 00:17:38,639 Speaker 1: and the questions are always delivered from your standpoint. We 275 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,639 Speaker 1: want to know what you want to know. We talked 276 00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: to the legends of business, sports, and entertainment about how 277 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:46,119 Speaker 1: they got their start and most importantly, how they make 278 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:48,680 Speaker 1: their money. Earn your Leisia is a college business class 279 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:50,520 Speaker 1: mixed with pop culture. I want to learn about the 280 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:53,359 Speaker 1: real estate game, unclears, how the stock market works. We 281 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: got you interested in starting a truck and company or 282 00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 1: vendor machine business. Not really sure about how taxes or 283 00:17:58,720 --> 00:18:01,439 Speaker 1: credit work. We got it all covered. The Arnie Leisure 284 00:18:01,440 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: podcast is available now. Listen to Ernie Leisure on the 285 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:08,360 Speaker 1: Black Effect podcast Network. I hear radio, app, Apple podcast 286 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:17,359 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Emilia on this podcast. 287 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm taking you on a search, a search for love. 288 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: Hard working Latina seeks cool, down to earth guy. Swipe 289 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: swipe slide. It's hard out there. For a girl to 290 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:33,159 Speaker 1: find Mr Wright, I have to meet a lot of 291 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 1: Mr Wrong's. He'd invite me over to have dinner with 292 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 1: his family. I knew he didn't tell them that it 293 00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,720 Speaker 1: was transgender. Dating as a trans woman can be complicated, 294 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:46,440 Speaker 1: but there were other reasons. I felt like I couldn't 295 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 1: always beat myself. And he's asking me things about my family, 296 00:18:49,680 --> 00:18:53,119 Speaker 1: like my mom's in prison, my grandmother was arrested for 297 00:18:53,200 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: working with the Mexican drug cartel. This scrumbs my love story. 298 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: It's to show about the things we set up for 299 00:19:01,880 --> 00:19:04,280 Speaker 1: and the bits of ourselves that make us who we are. 300 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: Listen to Crumbs as part of the Michael la podcast network, 301 00:19:09,240 --> 00:19:12,480 Speaker 1: available on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 302 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:19,200 Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts. The Gangster Chronicles podcast is 303 00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,960 Speaker 1: a weekly conversation that revolves around the underworld and criminals 304 00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,320 Speaker 1: and entertainers to victims, crime and law enforcement. We cover 305 00:19:26,359 --> 00:19:30,120 Speaker 1: all facets of the game. Gainst Chronicles podcast doesn't glorify 306 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:34,399 Speaker 1: promotilstit activities. We just discussed the ramifications and repercussions of 307 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: these activities. Because after all, she played gamester games. You 308 00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:41,360 Speaker 1: are ultimately rewarded with Gangster prizes our Heart Radios number 309 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,000 Speaker 1: one for podcasts, but don't take our award for it. 310 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: Find Against the Chronicles podcast and I Heart Radio app 311 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:53,959 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcast. The financial arrangement between 312 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: Nodler and its artists seemed simple enough on the surface. 313 00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:03,240 Speaker 1: Everything was on paper before computers. Recalled one staffer, if 314 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,160 Speaker 1: the price for a painting just sold was say one 315 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,760 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars, then the standards split on painting sold 316 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:13,160 Speaker 1: was fifty fifty fifty for the artist and fifty percent 317 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: for the gallery. But at Nadler there was a category 318 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 1: called report to Artists. Instead of being recorded as a 319 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: sale for one hundred thousand dollars, the report to artist 320 00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,000 Speaker 1: would show the sale as, say, ninety six thousand dollars. 321 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 1: When the fifty fifty split was made, the artist got 322 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:37,720 Speaker 1: fifty percent of ninety six thousand dollars, not of one 323 00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,080 Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars. It wasn't a big reduction for the artist. 324 00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,439 Speaker 1: In fact, it was so small that most of the 325 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: artists were probably perfectly happy pocketing their fifty of the 326 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,919 Speaker 1: report to artists that they failed to question the galleries 327 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:58,520 Speaker 1: accounting methods. The staffer a new arrival at the time, 328 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:02,320 Speaker 1: questioned one or two book about the practice. To her, 329 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:05,639 Speaker 1: it seemed unsavory, a red flag, as she put it, 330 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 1: but she felt if she pushed too far, she'd put 331 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: her job in jeopardy. Donald Sultan, one of the Knodler 332 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:18,240 Speaker 1: galleries younger artists at the time, confirmed that Anne kept 333 00:21:18,359 --> 00:21:23,280 Speaker 1: two separate sets of books. Sultan said she told people 334 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: she sold an artwork for X, but she actually sold 335 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,359 Speaker 1: it for X plus y. Either she or the gallery 336 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:36,240 Speaker 1: kept the difference. Another delicate matter at Ndler was the 337 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 1: upstairs presence of an accountant, Dr. Maury Leebovitz, who ran 338 00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:45,120 Speaker 1: a much larger operation. He oversaw not just the Kndler, 339 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:49,919 Speaker 1: but also the very commercial Hammer Gallery situated on Park Avenue, 340 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 1: just above Street, which the Hammer family had bought some 341 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: time before. He was a shadowy figure. The staffers set 342 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,159 Speaker 1: of Maury You were not allowed to even mention his 343 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: presence because they didn't want anyone to know the two 344 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 1: galleries were run together. Why because while the Noodlers sold 345 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: art of impeccable quality to wealthy collectors, the Hammer Gallery 346 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,560 Speaker 1: over on Park Avenue sold tacky artists like Leroy Nieman 347 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 1: with his highly commercial sports scenes to Larry, Reuben and 348 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: the rest of Knoedler, Niemen was an embarrassment. In spite 349 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: of this, Niemen was the biggest earner for the two 350 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: galleries combined, and his profits helped prop up the galleries 351 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: bottom line. There was nothing illegal about this, It was 352 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: just a way of disguising the galleries finances. The k 353 00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,840 Speaker 1: Nodler would disguise its finances later on too, in a 354 00:22:45,960 --> 00:22:52,800 Speaker 1: much different and very illegal way. By the nineteen eighties, 355 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: Anna had become a fixture at Knodler, selling far more 356 00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:59,160 Speaker 1: than anyone else at the gallery, and thus accruing more 357 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,160 Speaker 1: power as she did it. One former staffer recalls Anne saying, 358 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:06,440 Speaker 1: I could have sold catalogs, but I chose to sell art. 359 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,440 Speaker 1: Perhaps she was being facetious, but to the staffer that 360 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:16,199 Speaker 1: sort of rang true. When I used to go to 361 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: the Nolar Gallery, which I did every trip to New York, 362 00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:22,639 Speaker 1: to see Larry, perhaps to buy something, or you know, 363 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:27,119 Speaker 1: just have Blanche whatever. Ann Friedman's office was not in office. 364 00:23:27,119 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: It was a desk in the showroom where they had 365 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:35,400 Speaker 1: their paintings in racks. She would be right there. That's 366 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 1: John Burgruin, who San Francisco gallery remains a bastion of 367 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,679 Speaker 1: the art business more than half a century since he 368 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:46,919 Speaker 1: opened it on Grant Avenue, and Friedman was always, as 369 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: far as I'm concerned, controversial person, you know, I don't. 370 00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: I often wondered how Larry dealt with her on a 371 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 1: day to day basis. What was striking about her presence, 372 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,680 Speaker 1: the fact that factly she was even there in a way. 373 00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:06,200 Speaker 1: But what was her style? Well, she was aggressive. Another 374 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,959 Speaker 1: former staffer took a slightly softer view. She was demanding, 375 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,760 Speaker 1: but not totally unfair. She was like that type in 376 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,080 Speaker 1: the devil Wares product That was Anne. He never felt 377 00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,640 Speaker 1: close to her, the staffer added, there's an almost masculine quality, 378 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:22,440 Speaker 1: hard to read. She was tough and a lot of 379 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:27,800 Speaker 1: people ended up not liking her. The note was a 380 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,399 Speaker 1: long time manager and art handler, Joe Stephens, once stopped 381 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,959 Speaker 1: at her desk in the late nineteen eighties after hours. 382 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 1: When she was gone, his eyes widened. There was Anne's 383 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,919 Speaker 1: latest paycheck. I was juned and she was already made 384 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: seventies thousand dollars. It was June and she had already 385 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: made three seventy five for the year. So far, so far, 386 00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 1: that's a lot of money in the late eighties. That's 387 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:59,560 Speaker 1: what I found out. These were the go go years 388 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:04,320 Speaker 1: in the contemporary art market. Dealers like Leo Castelli and 389 00:25:04,359 --> 00:25:08,600 Speaker 1: Mary Boone were selling big, bold canvases of artists like 390 00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:12,919 Speaker 1: Julian Schnabel and Eric Fischel, along with David Sally and 391 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:17,880 Speaker 1: Ross Bleckner. Abstract art was out along with minimalist art. 392 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: Figurative art was back in with a vengeance. The Knoedler 393 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: wasn't quite at the heart of all this. Once again, 394 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,440 Speaker 1: it was selling the art no longer quite of its 395 00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:39,720 Speaker 1: day under Larry Reuben. However, it did well enough when 396 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: Larry was the head of the gallery. Were we weren't 397 00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,880 Speaker 1: in trouble for money? It was? It was a name 398 00:25:46,520 --> 00:25:51,479 Speaker 1: armand Hammer died in nineteen ninety, leaving his grandson Michael 399 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: as chairman of Knoedler as well as head of the 400 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:59,199 Speaker 1: Tacky Hammer Gallery on Park Avenue. Michael Hammer was an 401 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: elusive are known mostly for his born again evangelical zeal, 402 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: his deep affinity for tanning machines, and later for his 403 00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:13,040 Speaker 1: two dozen or so vintage automobiles. But he was smart 404 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: enough to let Larry Reuben keep running the Notler Gallery, 405 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 1: and though the whole art market suffered a major recession 406 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: in the early nineteen nineties, with the galleries closing right 407 00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:28,880 Speaker 1: and left, Nler survived due in combination to the revenues 408 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:32,320 Speaker 1: from the Hammer Gallery and blue chip artists who stayed 409 00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:36,640 Speaker 1: loyal to Larry Reuben. What Michael Hammer failed to sense, however, 410 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,320 Speaker 1: was that Anne was no longer a docile salesperson for Nler. 411 00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:44,800 Speaker 1: She felt she was the one keeping the gallery afloat. 412 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: The major sales were hers, and yet the gallery wasn't 413 00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:53,399 Speaker 1: giving her the credit she felt she deserved. The more 414 00:26:53,560 --> 00:27:00,080 Speaker 1: underappreciated she felt, the more resentment she radiated. It was 415 00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 1: about that time in the early nineties, said Larry Reuben 416 00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:08,520 Speaker 1: started planning his exit. I didn't understand him leaving the gallery, 417 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,359 Speaker 1: but he missed Europe. He had a house in the 418 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 1: south of France, and then he had the house in Italy. 419 00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:19,640 Speaker 1: He wanted a semi retire. Joe Stevens recalls Larry's departure. 420 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: I knew something was wrong now. I didn't know if 421 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: it was because the galery was taken over by Michael 422 00:27:29,359 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: I couldn't figure it out. Reuben wanted a life of 423 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: European travel. Yet he still wanted to retain control of 424 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:44,200 Speaker 1: the gallery. He would manage to do just that by 425 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:49,960 Speaker 1: bringing in a successor, one who reported directly to him. 426 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:55,439 Speaker 1: This was an expert in multiples named Donald Staff. Multiples 427 00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,520 Speaker 1: mean any art made in more than one copy. Usually 428 00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:02,360 Speaker 1: it's a numbered and signed edition. Lithographs are multiples, for example, 429 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: so were engravings, which were part of the origins of Nodler. 430 00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:10,000 Speaker 1: Back in the eighteen forties. Donald Staff had done multiples 431 00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:13,040 Speaker 1: for the great pop artist Roy Lichtenstein, and the two 432 00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,080 Speaker 1: had grown close. It was a good chance that Staff 433 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:20,119 Speaker 1: might get Lichtenstein to join the Notar Gallery. Larry Ruben 434 00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,000 Speaker 1: thought he had talked Michael Hammer into adopting this plan. 435 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,399 Speaker 1: Larry would direct the gallery from Italy, where he had 436 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,440 Speaker 1: a country home, and Larry and Donald Staff would run 437 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 1: it together, and Friedman would be the hard driving salesperson. 438 00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: I'm sure at that point she was saying, I'm making 439 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: all the sales. He's not doing anything. You don't need him, 440 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:45,480 Speaker 1: You'll do just as many sales, which was probably true 441 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: in a sense. No, no, but she had no connections 442 00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: to get Liechtenstein or Rauschenberg. The other guy had better 443 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:58,120 Speaker 1: connections Donald Saft, Yeah, yeah, and so even though not 444 00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:04,800 Speaker 1: didn't yet have Ralchenberg or there was a hope of it, 445 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: whereas there was no hope if if Anne was the 446 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:10,840 Speaker 1: head of the gallery she didn't know any of these artists. 447 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 1: I mean, what what sort of self delusion you've called it? 448 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,720 Speaker 1: The news of Larry's retirement and Staff's imminent arrival in 449 00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 1: the fall of infuriated Anne. Later she said she just 450 00:29:26,320 --> 00:29:29,800 Speaker 1: wanted to know what don sass Roll would be that 451 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,640 Speaker 1: seemed to cause a problems and put it dryly to me, 452 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:35,760 Speaker 1: she wanted more than that, She wanted to know why 453 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:38,920 Speaker 1: she shouldn't be made director of the gallery after seventeen years, 454 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 1: when she was the one who sold the art and 455 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:47,160 Speaker 1: shored up the company's bottom line Like a heat seeking 456 00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: missile and shot into Michael Hammer's office on a mid 457 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: November day in and took him on directly. She could 458 00:29:56,840 --> 00:29:59,640 Speaker 1: do everything Ruben and saff could do, she pointed out 459 00:29:59,640 --> 00:30:03,440 Speaker 1: to have. She could cultivate new artists, organized their shows, 460 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:07,120 Speaker 1: and run the business at the same time. She would 461 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: sell a lot more art than Reuben or Staff put together. 462 00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,920 Speaker 1: Why not let her run the gallery with Michael Hammer's help, 463 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:19,200 Speaker 1: of course, and send the old men packing, and must 464 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: have been persuasive because Michael Hammer changed his mind on 465 00:30:22,760 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: the spot and gave her the job. He did that 466 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: even though Sav had just been formerly hired as co 467 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 1: director and was sent a letter detailing the terms of 468 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:37,719 Speaker 1: his employment. According to Staff's lawyer, the letter was signed 469 00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:40,880 Speaker 1: by Staff and sent back to Ndler to be countersigned. 470 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:44,120 Speaker 1: It was sitting in an inbox at the Knoedler when 471 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 1: Hammer changed his mind and seized it. Staff's lawyers accused 472 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:53,520 Speaker 1: Hammer of preaching an oral agreement, but the charge went nowhere. 473 00:30:54,320 --> 00:30:56,640 Speaker 1: There would be no more talk of Sav and Reuben 474 00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,160 Speaker 1: as co directors. There would be just one direct her 475 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: and Friedman. We'll be back in a minute. And we're 476 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,200 Speaker 1: live here outside the Perez family home, just waiting for 477 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,320 Speaker 1: the And there they go, almost on time. This morning, 478 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,800 Speaker 1: Mom is coming out the front door, strong with a 479 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,680 Speaker 1: double arm kid carry. Looks like Dad has the bags 480 00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,040 Speaker 1: daughter he's bringing up the rear. Oh but the diaper 481 00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:32,400 Speaker 1: bag wasn't closed. Diapers and toys are everywhere. Oh but 482 00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,640 Speaker 1: mom has just nailed the perfect car seat buckle for 483 00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,680 Speaker 1: the toddler. And now the eldest daughter, who looks to 484 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: be about nine or ten, has secured herself in the 485 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 1: booster seat. Dad zips the bag clothes and they're off, 486 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,200 Speaker 1: but looks like Mom doesn't realize her coffee cup is 487 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,360 Speaker 1: still on the roof of the car and there it goes. Ah, 488 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: that's a shame that mug was a fan favorite. Don't 489 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,360 Speaker 1: sweat the small stuff, just nailed the big stuff, like 490 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,239 Speaker 1: making sure your kids are buckled correctly in the right 491 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:02,400 Speaker 1: seat for their agent's eye. Learn more n h t 492 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,920 Speaker 1: s A dot go Slash the Right Seat visits n 493 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,000 Speaker 1: h s A dot gov Slash the Right Seat. Brought 494 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,920 Speaker 1: to you by NITZA and the Ad Council. Hi, I'm 495 00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:15,160 Speaker 1: Arden Marine from Shameless and Statiable, Chelsea Lately and the 496 00:32:15,200 --> 00:32:17,959 Speaker 1: I Heart Radio podcast Will You Accept This Rose? And 497 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: I'm Julianne Robinson and Emmy and bafta nominated director most 498 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,960 Speaker 1: recently of Bridgetain. And we are the hosts of Lady 499 00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,840 Speaker 1: of the Road, a funny and inspiring podcast where we 500 00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: have conversations with influential women about their lives and we 501 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,360 Speaker 1: get self help advice. We're always looking to improve ourselves 502 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,800 Speaker 1: and we figure there's no better source for learning how 503 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:40,080 Speaker 1: to be brave, take risks and advocate for yourself in 504 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 1: life than speaking with motivating, uplifting women. Some of them 505 00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:45,920 Speaker 1: we've met throughout our careers and some of them were 506 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: just meeting now. We talk about money, health, relationships, parenthood, 507 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,760 Speaker 1: running a business you name it from inspiring women like 508 00:32:52,920 --> 00:32:58,280 Speaker 1: Joan Jet, Nicole Buyer, Lauren lobkis Htta, Ricky Lindholm, Kate mccouchee, 509 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,800 Speaker 1: Kate Walsh, shondaland per You, Sir, Betsy bears Adu and 510 00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: o Jen Kirkman and more. Listen and subscribe to Lady 511 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 1: of the Road on the I Heart Radio app Apple 512 00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:12,160 Speaker 1: podcasts over if would you get your podcasts? The Black 513 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:16,400 Speaker 1: Effect presents I didn't know, maybe you didn't either, but 514 00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: the history of black people ain't rooted in slavery. Oh, 515 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:24,120 Speaker 1: no is royalty, not despair. Beat out here and every 516 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,920 Speaker 1: day in February, I will give you a black history 517 00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: fact that I didn't know, and maybe you didn't either. 518 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:33,760 Speaker 1: It's a rugged, ratchet, realistic look at history. Listen, so 519 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 1: I didn't know, maybe you didn't either. On the Black 520 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,240 Speaker 1: Effect podcast Network, our Heart Radio app, Apple podcast or 521 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:46,760 Speaker 1: just wherever you get your podcast from. Ann's new title 522 00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: seemed to assure her great success, but Leslie Feeley since 523 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:52,880 Speaker 1: the story would turn out badly if only because of 524 00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:58,440 Speaker 1: Anne's temperament. She was not a people person. She would 525 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,160 Speaker 1: try to you know, sway people gush over people, but 526 00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: a lot of people didn't go for her. One collecting 527 00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:11,040 Speaker 1: couple who resisted her charms was the Mayer Hoffs. Wonderful, 528 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:15,200 Speaker 1: fabulous collect According to one person in Baltimore, they would 529 00:34:15,239 --> 00:34:17,880 Speaker 1: have nothing to do with Anne. A lot of people 530 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:22,400 Speaker 1: had that reaction, like me, yea, whether collectors or dealers 531 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: anything so interesting that she should alienated them all and 532 00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,920 Speaker 1: yet still get this job. So thanks to Michael Hammer, 533 00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:35,800 Speaker 1: I guess right. So the amazing thing to me about 534 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:39,560 Speaker 1: this story at this point is that you know, Anne 535 00:34:39,760 --> 00:34:42,680 Speaker 1: gets her wish, and be careful what you wish for, 536 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: because now there's no one to guide her and to 537 00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:54,440 Speaker 1: keep her from making truly calamitous decisions. Making a calamitous 538 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:58,120 Speaker 1: I don't I think she wanted to make more money 539 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:01,160 Speaker 1: so she didn't care how she did it. I mean, 540 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:05,480 Speaker 1: don't you think it was in her blood? She wasn't 541 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,799 Speaker 1: making enough money to carry the gallery And now that 542 00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 1: she had gotten this job and this power, and pushed 543 00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 1: aside any chance of these other artists coming in also 544 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: having artists leave because of her. Stephen Corn gone, wow, 545 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,840 Speaker 1: when did that happen? I think redwayd I think she 546 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,120 Speaker 1: was pushed out of Stephen Corn right away because they 547 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 1: never liked her. Joe Stevens got an earful of Larry 548 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,960 Speaker 1: Reuben's fury as Stevens drove Larry across town that day. 549 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,400 Speaker 1: We're coming back from Frank Stella's studio and you got 550 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 1: a call. It might have been a treasury spoke to 551 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:59,400 Speaker 1: me and he goes, dad fucking and now he's boiling 552 00:36:00,080 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 1: stick kill up. He says, what the are you fucking 553 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:08,240 Speaker 1: fitting me? And he just rent and raved. So he says, 554 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 1: I says, Larry, what's going on? You know? He says 555 00:36:13,719 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 1: that bitch, and but he didn't get into it. He 556 00:36:17,520 --> 00:36:20,239 Speaker 1: just says that you'll you'll hear about it soon enough. 557 00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,560 Speaker 1: So I had said to him, Mrs Larry, do I 558 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: have to get another job? He says, I don't know, Joe. 559 00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 1: He says things are happening right now. I don't know. 560 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:37,239 Speaker 1: He didn't specified like say, if you get along with 561 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:40,839 Speaker 1: and you'll be around for a while, you know. But 562 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 1: he was absolutely furious, and within a month he was 563 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: gone and had seized power in the last ticking moments 564 00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:59,600 Speaker 1: she had while that letter from Donald Save lay in 565 00:36:59,719 --> 00:37:04,040 Speaker 1: Mike Hammer's inbox. With that move, she changed the course 566 00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,480 Speaker 1: of her life and ultimately the Knodler Galleries too, But 567 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: it came with a drawback. The problem was that the 568 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,799 Speaker 1: art market of the early to mid nine nineties was 569 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:21,399 Speaker 1: terrible like all her rivals, and needed top quality art 570 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:25,160 Speaker 1: to sell. It wasn't so easy to find, especially for 571 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:29,440 Speaker 1: a dealer who lacked a lifetime of friendships with famous artists. 572 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:37,240 Speaker 1: Anne's predicament was actually worse than it seemed. Her harsh 573 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,480 Speaker 1: personality and the swiftness with which she had grabbed her 574 00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,960 Speaker 1: prize had alienated many of the galleries living artists, along 575 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:49,239 Speaker 1: with the estates that represented deceased ones. The Adolph Gottlieb 576 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 1: Foundation was alarmed, so was the David Smith Foundation, the 577 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:58,760 Speaker 1: Robert Motherwell Foundation, and the Richard Deepencorn Foundation. Upon Anne's coup, 578 00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,360 Speaker 1: they all left the gallery. Joe Stevens recalls Anne's rise 579 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:10,040 Speaker 1: to leadership with mixed feelings. She became an officer of 580 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:13,280 Speaker 1: the company. You know, she became like a vice president, 581 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:18,879 Speaker 1: so she changed. She had authority to me, she just 582 00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,200 Speaker 1: became bitchy because she knew who she was. She sold 583 00:38:22,239 --> 00:38:24,959 Speaker 1: a lot of artwork. She was a big time salesperson. 584 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,280 Speaker 1: I had really good working with her in the very beginning, 585 00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:34,320 Speaker 1: and then she became the boss. She never really said 586 00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,439 Speaker 1: nothing much to me in the beginning because she knew 587 00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:39,760 Speaker 1: I knew my job I do. I took care of everything. 588 00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:41,839 Speaker 1: I took care of everything that had to be taken 589 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,000 Speaker 1: care of. I was the top sergeant in that place, 590 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: and it's in physical I took care of it, the 591 00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:50,720 Speaker 1: building everything. If a window cracked, I had have it fixed, 592 00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,799 Speaker 1: the air conditioning. I did it all. But my main 593 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 1: job was I was the shipping manager and the head 594 00:38:57,320 --> 00:39:01,680 Speaker 1: preparative of all the artwork. I don't care if you'd 595 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,440 Speaker 1: the precedent to company. I deserve respect. I take care 596 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 1: of this whole gallery from the minute it opens to 597 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:12,399 Speaker 1: the minute it closes, and I handle all the art work, 598 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:22,719 Speaker 1: every bit of it. In that capacity, there was a 599 00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: lot that Joe would see as the gallery began to 600 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: sink and money became an issue. Even as Anne began 601 00:39:30,200 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: wielding her new power. As noted as director, sales were plummeting, 602 00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:38,120 Speaker 1: and aggressive and ruthless tactics had pushed away the gallery's 603 00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:42,840 Speaker 1: best clients and the staff were turning against her, and 604 00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 1: Friedman was now totally on her own to decide which 605 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:52,600 Speaker 1: artists to promote and sell. Her standards became the galleries standards. 606 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:58,280 Speaker 1: Her eagerness to close these deals conveyed a clear message, sell, sell, sell, 607 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 1: no matter what. This guy, I think his name was 608 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,520 Speaker 1: Buddy Yorkin, he used to be a directive of like Bewitched. 609 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,200 Speaker 1: He bought this Pollock. Now, if you remember Michael's you 610 00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:14,200 Speaker 1: go back when Cardier was sending out empty packages so 611 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,440 Speaker 1: people don't have to pay taxes. Absolutely. Okay, here's the 612 00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: scam that Joe is referring to. In five Cardier, the 613 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:26,800 Speaker 1: world famous jewelry brand, was helping its customers evade sales tax. 614 00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,759 Speaker 1: At the time, those taxes in New York City were 615 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:33,680 Speaker 1: eight point to five. Out of state buyers were exempt 616 00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:37,240 Speaker 1: from those taxes. So the scam was when a customer 617 00:40:37,320 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: came in and purchased an expensive item, Cardier would ship 618 00:40:41,120 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: an empty box to a bogus address and the customer 619 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,400 Speaker 1: would walk out of the store with their merchandise, and 620 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,919 Speaker 1: it worked for a while. Time Magazine reported in April 621 00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:55,120 Speaker 1: five that at least two hundred and sixty thousand dollars 622 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,399 Speaker 1: in taxes when unpaid on a hundred and twenty five 623 00:40:58,480 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: sales over three years. Similar scams at the time were 624 00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 1: estimated to have cost New York State and local governments 625 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:10,920 Speaker 1: more than a hundred million and tax revenue annually. Well, 626 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: this guy here had to go and delivered his painting 627 00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:20,279 Speaker 1: to Kauai, Hawaii. I did. I jumped on a plane 628 00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:24,240 Speaker 1: in North flew nonstopped to Hunold, got in another plane 629 00:41:24,239 --> 00:41:28,440 Speaker 1: and flew to Kauai and delivered. It took me seventeen hours, 630 00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:33,000 Speaker 1: seven million dollars. You know why because she say four 631 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:39,040 Speaker 1: thousand dollars in taxes by me delivering It was your 632 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:43,759 Speaker 1: sense that that was common place at er No. I 633 00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:46,240 Speaker 1: did it once, and I said I'll never do it again. 634 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:51,120 Speaker 1: In the aftermath of Larry Reuben's departure, the changes at 635 00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:56,960 Speaker 1: Knodler were profound, with the gallery still struggling through tough times, 636 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: and became more demanding and sharp tongue, even imperious. Even 637 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,680 Speaker 1: Michael Hammer, the gallery's owner seemed to defer to Anne 638 00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:10,560 Speaker 1: more often than not. Anne was always screaming at everybody. 639 00:42:10,719 --> 00:42:15,120 Speaker 1: One staffer recalled, always screaming for himI Andratti, her assistant. 640 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,080 Speaker 1: If she didn't have the right pen, she would call 641 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,399 Speaker 1: to himaid to get her more. Anne's personal assistance came 642 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:26,960 Speaker 1: and went in dizzying succession. If you unwrapped her sandwich, 643 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,880 Speaker 1: she wouldn't eat it, says one former assistant. If you 644 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,400 Speaker 1: answered the phone in the wrong way, she would pounce 645 00:42:33,440 --> 00:42:37,560 Speaker 1: on you. One woman was fired after three days for 646 00:42:37,680 --> 00:42:41,840 Speaker 1: having too strong an Eastern European accent, a staffer recalled. 647 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,440 Speaker 1: Another lasted two weeks for being too young and inexperienced. 648 00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,760 Speaker 1: So the next assistant they hired was older, in her forties. 649 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,680 Speaker 1: She was fired after a few months because Anne seemed 650 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:59,160 Speaker 1: threatened by her. One staffer recalled that she and her 651 00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:02,319 Speaker 1: colleagues kept a list of all the assistants who came 652 00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:05,760 Speaker 1: and went during the years she was there. As she said, 653 00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,360 Speaker 1: if you made it past the hazing rituals, you became 654 00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:15,480 Speaker 1: part of this dysfunctional family. The most memorable of that 655 00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:20,080 Speaker 1: long line of the demoralized was a fragile Southerner straight 656 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,319 Speaker 1: out of a Tennessee Williams play and would call her 657 00:43:23,520 --> 00:43:26,600 Speaker 1: five or six times a day. One Stafford recalled, they 658 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:36,239 Speaker 1: would be crying and screaming, and Friedman's Nodler gallery was 659 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,760 Speaker 1: in free fall. Help would come not long after Anne's 660 00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:44,560 Speaker 1: ascension at a Soho art gallery opening, surprisingly in the 661 00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:47,719 Speaker 1: form of a demure Mexican art dealer in her mid 662 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:57,239 Speaker 1: forties named La Rosalis. Anne had never met Rosales, and 663 00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,880 Speaker 1: upon learning that she had something to do with the 664 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,799 Speaker 1: gallery and Great Neck Long Island, she might have given 665 00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:06,360 Speaker 1: the woman a pain to smile and moved on. But 666 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,200 Speaker 1: Rosalves had sailed up to Anne on the arm of 667 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:13,200 Speaker 1: the Noodler's own himI Andrade, and so Anne was intrigued. 668 00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:17,719 Speaker 1: From such a casual meeting, the whole art market would 669 00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:23,880 Speaker 1: be seismically altered, leaving the Knodler itself devastated and ultimately doomed. 670 00:44:26,800 --> 00:44:30,440 Speaker 1: Depending on who you asked him, Andrade was either a 671 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:35,000 Speaker 1: long trusted employee of the gallery, harmless and endearing, or 672 00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:38,759 Speaker 1: an agent provocateur who saw a way to put Ann 673 00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:42,560 Speaker 1: Freedman together with Gia Rosalees, ensuring that all three of 674 00:44:42,600 --> 00:44:46,840 Speaker 1: them would profit from their endeavors. Oh please that's not 675 00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:49,520 Speaker 1: a connection. I mean, that's just trying to push the 676 00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:55,920 Speaker 1: guilt onto this poor, uneducated sweet man. It has nothing 677 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 1: to do with I mean, Anne would say that, of course, 678 00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: but I take your point. I mean, as as she 679 00:45:00,320 --> 00:45:05,600 Speaker 1: was just just naming someone else besides her. Okay, he 680 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:10,080 Speaker 1: introduced her. So what she made the judgment? She that's right, 681 00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:14,080 Speaker 1: She just nothing else. I mean it was totally her call. 682 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 1: Next time on art Fraud, she swears that she didn't know, 683 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:31,440 Speaker 1: which seems hard to believe. Should she have known? Yeah, 684 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,320 Speaker 1: I believe from the beginning she knew these were fakes. 685 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: They had no provenances. She made up provenances. Every Day, 686 00:45:42,719 --> 00:45:45,160 Speaker 1: Art Fraud is brought to you by I Heart Radio 687 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:50,080 Speaker 1: and Cavalry Audio. Our executive producers are Matt del Piano, 688 00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:55,320 Speaker 1: Keegan Rosenberger, myself, and Michael Shnayerson. We're produced by Brandon 689 00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: Morgan and Zach McNeice. Zach also edited and mixed this episode. 690 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 1: Lindsay Huffman is our managing producer. Our writer is Michael Shnayerson. 691 00:46:36,719 --> 00:46:40,040 Speaker 1: The Gangster Chronicles podcast is a weekly conversation that involves 692 00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:43,839 Speaker 1: around the underworld the criminals and entertainers to victims crime 693 00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,680 Speaker 1: and law enforcement. We cover all facets of the game. 694 00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:51,480 Speaker 1: Gainst the Chronicles podcast doesn't glorify promotilised activities. We just 695 00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,160 Speaker 1: discussed the ramifications and repercussions of these activities. Because after Wall, 696 00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,880 Speaker 1: if you played gamester games, you are ultimately rewarded with 697 00:46:57,960 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 1: Gagster prizes. Our heart ready you dosmember one for podcasts, 698 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,160 Speaker 1: but don't take our word for it. Find against the 699 00:47:04,200 --> 00:47:07,120 Speaker 1: Chronicles podcast, my Heart radio app or wherever you get 700 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:12,000 Speaker 1: your podcast. Give us silver attention. We need everything you've 701 00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:15,680 Speaker 1: got Fast Waiting on Reparations. We beat the podcast two 702 00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:18,759 Speaker 1: it in every Thursday politics and wordplay. We fight for 703 00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:20,879 Speaker 1: the people because they got us in the worst way, 704 00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,120 Speaker 1: from the Hill Cooper, the Bombay to Kunta, from the 705 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:28,839 Speaker 1: left on Clay to what the neo kan said every conversation. 706 00:47:28,880 --> 00:47:30,879 Speaker 1: And to break us off with some break because we're waiting. 707 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,839 Speaker 1: Listen to Waiting on Reparations and I Heart radio app, 708 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,640 Speaker 1: Apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. The Black 709 00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:44,880 Speaker 1: Effect presents I didn't know, maybe you didn't either, but 710 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:48,480 Speaker 1: the history of black people ain't rooted in slavery. Oh no, 711 00:47:48,920 --> 00:47:52,879 Speaker 1: it's royalty, not despair. Beat out here and every day. 712 00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:55,680 Speaker 1: In February, I will give you a Black history fact 713 00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:58,279 Speaker 1: that I didn't know and maybe you didn't either. It's 714 00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:02,239 Speaker 1: a rugged, ratchet, real baistic look at history. Listen so 715 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:04,680 Speaker 1: I didn't know, maybe you didn't either. On the Black 716 00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:08,719 Speaker 1: Effect Podcast Network, our Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or 717 00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:13,160 Speaker 1: just wherever you get your podcasts from.