Speaker 1: This episode is also available as video on YouTube. You
Speaker 1: can visit Norah Jones channel and be sure to subscribe
Speaker 1: while you're there. Hey, I'm Norah Jones and today I'm
Speaker 1: playing along with Jason Isbel. I'm just playing lousy, I'm
Speaker 1: just playing in lone uzy. Hey, I'm Nora Jones with
Speaker 1: me as always a Sarah Oda.
Speaker 2: Hello, welcome to the show, Jinks.
Speaker 1: I like your jacket.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: It's fresh from Japan. It's lovely. We have an incredible
Speaker 2: episode today.
Speaker 4: We're joined by Jason Isbel, the Grammy winning singer songwriter
Speaker 4: who you may know from his time with the Drive
Speaker 4: By Truckers or from Jason Isbel in the four hundred Unit.
Speaker 4: His latest album just came out this year. It's a
Speaker 4: new solo album called Foxes in the Snow, which is
Speaker 4: a stripped down acoustic album that really features his raw vocals.
Speaker 4: It's very intimate and heartfelt, very beautiful album. It's a
Speaker 4: very beautiful album. We had fun playing songs from it,
Speaker 4: and yeah, I just I just loved hanging with him
Speaker 4: and playing music. We've met before, but we never got
Speaker 4: a chance to really interact much, so.
Speaker 2: It was very fun in this episode.
Speaker 4: You're going to hear about his on screen film debut,
Speaker 4: about navigating how to write a love song, and what
Speaker 4: kind of manicure he likes to get.
Speaker 1: Oh, I forgot about that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And as always, we have great music coming up,
Speaker 4: including a really great surprise of a cover that you
Speaker 4: do cover surprise, So stay tuned.
Speaker 1: Here she is our episode with Jason isbo Enjoy. Hey,
Speaker 1: you want to play song?
Speaker 2: Let's do a song?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Let me?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 2: You want to count it? To just start playing? Okay?
Speaker 6: Started out like it always start.
Speaker 2: Try to hold the hunger bad.
Speaker 6: You don't anticipate a broken heart. I can't see nothing
Speaker 6: but to try a diamond earring in a bowery bead.
Speaker 2: You kicked your shoes across the floor.
Speaker 6: You regret the things that went on the set? Have
Speaker 6: you heard it all?
Speaker 2: For Ily? You should have seen this coming soon? Right
Speaker 2: me to be along for all my.
Speaker 8: Ily thought the truth was just a room that show.
Speaker 6: And it ended like it always ends, somebody crying the phone.
Speaker 6: Tell each other you could still beet friends. You both
Speaker 6: know you're all on your own. My own behavior was
Speaker 6: a shock to me. I never thought I'd have a nerd.
Speaker 2: I hope you're sleeping through the night alley.
Speaker 3: I hope they're grading all the curve.
Speaker 8: Ily, you should have seen this coming soon?
Speaker 3: Why me me alone?
Speaker 8: For all mind Ily, you thought the truth.
Speaker 3: Was just a rumor.
Speaker 6: That's sure. Somebody broke my heart. Was I was useless
Speaker 6: for a week.
Speaker 2: I didn't leave my apartment, I.
Speaker 9: Didn't need I didn't sleep.
Speaker 6: Then I found the letter show against the wall behind
Speaker 6: the bed said forever as a dead man's show. That's
Speaker 6: the only thing that said.
Speaker 8: I should have seen this come in simple.
Speaker 2: Right, me me alone?
Speaker 3: For all mydy I thought the truth was just a rumor.
Speaker 2: That shore way, that's it sounded good.
Speaker 1: That was so pretty. It was really good. Yeah. It's
Speaker 1: interesting because I you know your songs. I'm dying to
Speaker 1: sing harmony all over the place. But there's there's so
Speaker 1: intimate on this record. It's all solo, right, the whole thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and also I think there's something about certain lyrics that
Speaker 1: can be hard to have two people.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 6: Sometimes it feels weird to have a second voice in there.
Speaker 1: It does, But I just had to do it.
Speaker 2: How do you? Yeah, I want you to do it.
Speaker 3: I had to do it.
Speaker 6: They heard the version that just has me on her,
Speaker 6: they can find it easily. Yeah, we're going to do something.
Speaker 1: I had to do it. But yeah, it was like
Speaker 1: there's such a tender song and such a you know,
Speaker 1: seems like a lonesome lyric, you.
Speaker 6: Know, Yeah, I think so, it's where do you where
Speaker 6: do you put the line? Because it's tough for me
Speaker 6: to choose, Like, I want to put harmonies on everything.
Speaker 1: Me too.
Speaker 6: I grew up listening to harmony vocals and like studying
Speaker 6: like David Crosby and Mike Mills and you know, Everley's
Speaker 6: and all this stuff, and I want it. I want
Speaker 6: to put it on everything. And then I hear it
Speaker 6: and I think that's way that's way too much harmony.
Speaker 6: That's like putting too much seasoning on a dish, too
Speaker 6: many ingredients, Yeah, exactly, Yeah, yeah, And I don't know,
Speaker 6: it's it's it's a tough line.
Speaker 1: I think you can usually tell after you do it,
Speaker 1: if it's you know, overdubbed or you know, you rehearse it,
Speaker 1: you can tell where to leave it eventually, and then
Speaker 1: once you put it in, it's like the magic bloss.
Speaker 6: It's so perfect, right, Yeah, it's so perfect. I remember
Speaker 6: like for some reason. That was one of the things
Speaker 6: I think maybe when I was a kid, I just
Speaker 6: thought that I was going to sing harmony and play guitar. Really,
Speaker 6: I didn't realize I was going to be singing lead
Speaker 6: vocals on anything.
Speaker 2: And so that's what I listened to.
Speaker 6: Super closely, and I remember certain moments like like on
Speaker 6: like time after time, that harmony vocal is one of
Speaker 6: the best harmony.
Speaker 2: Kind of angular it is.
Speaker 6: It sounds like Elvis Costello, but it sounds like you know.
Speaker 6: But then it's like I remember also like you're so vain,
Speaker 6: like Mick On, You're so vain. It's basically just unison.
Speaker 6: He's not even really singing harmony, but it's so perfect,
Speaker 6: you know.
Speaker 2: I remember trying to figure.
Speaker 6: Out why, what is it that makes one harmony part better?
Speaker 1: Well, it's like the whole Gillian Welsh David Rawlings thing.
Speaker 1: I'm always singing along a third part when I'm listening
Speaker 1: to them. But the truth is, it's much cooler when
Speaker 1: it's just two of them, It's true, and they find
Speaker 1: these weird sevens and like they don't pick you know,
Speaker 1: Dave doesn't always do a typical harmony.
Speaker 2: No, he never does a typical harmony.
Speaker 1: He'll do like a weird line and then I'll go
Speaker 1: lower than her and then higher than her, and it's
Speaker 1: like it's just more special.
Speaker 2: Yeah it is.
Speaker 6: And it's like I feel like it's rewarding for those
Speaker 6: of us who you know, build music for a living
Speaker 6: or take it that seit, but also for people who
Speaker 6: don't and just listen. They think this is weird in
Speaker 6: a good way.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they don't. He told me a really cool story
Speaker 1: once about I think Time the Revelator. He said that
Speaker 1: somebody sent a comment online about how his guitar was
Speaker 1: out of tune because it was dissonant, and he was
Speaker 1: playing this weird like yeah, using that, and he just
Speaker 1: got such a kick out of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: They didn't understand that the difference was actually correct but
Speaker 1: supposed to be weird. They just thought it was out
Speaker 1: of tune.
Speaker 6: Yeah yeah, and I mean it probably being that old Olympic,
Speaker 6: it probably was also out of tune.
Speaker 2: Probably that's not what they were here. Yeah, yeah, he does.
Speaker 6: He came and sat in with me on some solo
Speaker 6: shows in Nashville. You know, I feel like sometimes like
Speaker 6: he's arts from a point of like this is not good.
Speaker 6: I don't want this to make perfect sense, and I'm
Speaker 6: going to figure out how to get back down the
Speaker 6: lamb into the tree.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it makes me so happy. Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 1: I can kind of picture.
Speaker 6: It's like it's like I'm going back for the tree,
Speaker 6: but you know, I'm not going to start from a
Speaker 6: typical spot.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: It's so nice because it never sounds superfluous that way.
Speaker 6: It's it's always like, Okay, this is here for a reason,
Speaker 6: and it doesn't always land, Like when I try to
Speaker 6: do that, it does not land half the time.
Speaker 2: But he's just really good at it.
Speaker 6: He's really good at doing like chromatic oh yeah, falls
Speaker 6: and walks and landing on that third or landing somewhere
Speaker 6: where it's like, oh now I'm comfortable.
Speaker 1: It's like a cat on the list exactly.
Speaker 5: It is.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, he's so good.
Speaker 1: Tell me about your guitar.
Speaker 6: This guitar is is a Martin. When I was in
Speaker 6: Oklahoma filming Killers of the Flower Moon, very coolat either way,
Speaker 6: that was very thank you. That was really weird, like
Speaker 6: I just don't do that. And we were in the
Speaker 6: pandemic and I was like, well, I can't tour, and
Speaker 6: so I asked my agent if I could get like
Speaker 6: auditions or something.
Speaker 1: Really Okay, Yeah, so you were proactive about it.
Speaker 6: Yeah. I wanted to, like if somebody's got a set
Speaker 6: where they're testing and filming a show where a movie,
Speaker 6: now might be the time. And you know, I got
Speaker 6: an audition, I got called back, and I'm like in
Speaker 6: my house, you know, in the in the bedroom with
Speaker 6: my laptop, you know, just like with Marty and and DiCaprio,
Speaker 6: like on the Zoom, and I'm terrified.
Speaker 1: It's hilarious.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I finally wound up getting it and getting
Speaker 6: out there and no clue what I was doing, just
Speaker 6: you know, but I just told everybody, I don't know
Speaker 6: how to do this, so tell me how to do it,
Speaker 6: and I will do my best. And they're like, oh, okay,
Speaker 6: that's refreshing.
Speaker 7: You know.
Speaker 6: Delayed proceeding some days, but most of the time it
Speaker 6: was fine. But Martin experience, it was nuts. But Martin
Speaker 6: sent me this because I needed a little acoustic to
Speaker 6: bang around on.
Speaker 1: Oh, because it's.
Speaker 6: Small and travelable, Okay, I see, Yeah, And I was
Speaker 6: having to go back and forth between Oklahoma and shows
Speaker 6: because they the scheduling was a massive event around that.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's not your time.
Speaker 2: No, not in any way.
Speaker 1: That's what's hard for me the few times have done things. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just I'm so used to being in control of
Speaker 1: my time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, me too.
Speaker 6: And yeah it's not You're going to get dressed up
Speaker 6: and sit there for nine hours make up.
Speaker 1: It's an uncomfortable outfit, very uncomfortable.
Speaker 6: And you know, we were outdoors in Oklahoma, and so
Speaker 6: it was like the weather brutal. Yeah, it was either
Speaker 6: really really hot or like de Niro hurd himself and
Speaker 6: had to go get surgery. So it kind of pushed
Speaker 6: everything back a few weeks, and then we wound up
Speaker 6: in storm season. So I was just in the trailer,
Speaker 6: oh wow, waiting, you know, dressed up in suspenders and
Speaker 6: old riding boots and my hair slicked back and sitting
Speaker 6: there playing this guitar. But I did write most of
Speaker 6: an album that way, the new album, the one before Weatherbag.
Speaker 2: I wrote almost that whole record. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 6: I just when I said that, realized that the weather
Speaker 6: was a big reason. Yeah, but yeah, I wrote most
Speaker 6: of that record out there in that trailer, dressed up
Speaker 6: like a horse repair man.
Speaker 1: It's amazing but this isn't what you used on the
Speaker 1: new record.
Speaker 6: No, on the new record, I used an old guitar
Speaker 6: that is currently in New York, that's been in New
Speaker 6: York since I got it.
Speaker 2: I got it at Retro here in Brooklyn.
Speaker 6: I just called sheer and I was like, I need
Speaker 6: a little tiny Martin for the apartment here, and uh,
Speaker 6: and I wound up writing and recording Foxes a new
Speaker 6: record all on that good, the whole thing. I just
Speaker 6: went into Electric Lady and.
Speaker 1: You did it here, yeah, and uh, just you and
Speaker 1: the guitar.
Speaker 6: And a guitar Gina Johnson who engineered and co produced
Speaker 6: it with me, and a bunch of microphones. And my
Speaker 6: best friend Will Welch Uh. He came in and filmed
Speaker 6: and hung out. And you know, there's a few people
Speaker 6: that I can handle just having in the studio all
Speaker 6: the time.
Speaker 2: And he's definitely great for that.
Speaker 1: Yeah. You know, I've still never let this is weird
Speaker 1: for me having cameras.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah, but do you normally just have like
Speaker 2: somebody hitting engineering.
Speaker 1: And oh I need an engineer for.
Speaker 2: Sure, engineer too. That makes me feel better doing that.
Speaker 1: But like the filming thing, now everybody wants to film everything,
Speaker 1: and I get it. I just yeah, to get a
Speaker 1: little stiff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, me too. Yeah, but that's cool. Yeah, it was,
Speaker 2: it was. It was great.
Speaker 6: And he was like, why are you doing this electric lady?
Speaker 6: Is it's like an acoustic.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could do it in a barn somewhere.
Speaker 6: Yeah, But I was like, well, where are the rest
Speaker 6: of the studios in the village where you can make
Speaker 6: a good sounding record and everything works and you're not
Speaker 6: waiting all day?
Speaker 2: I wanted to go into.
Speaker 6: A studio in the village with a guitar and a
Speaker 6: notebook and make a record.
Speaker 1: That was the point that was kind of romantic? Was
Speaker 1: it like a romantic idea?
Speaker 6: I think as I think, I think I put those
Speaker 6: That's about the only time I'll allow myself to go
Speaker 6: buy those rules, those sort of romanticized rules.
Speaker 1: I think that's good.
Speaker 6: I think that's the whole point of having studios because
Speaker 6: if not, you know, I could just do it at
Speaker 6: home or in somebody's basement or something. And to me,
Speaker 6: if I'm going to go into a studio, I want
Speaker 6: to feel the pressure of what's happening.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you do feel a little bit more heightened
Speaker 1: with the Yeah you're paying for.
Speaker 2: It, yeah, which helps the budget.
Speaker 6: It really, that's the only reason I put pressure on
Speaker 6: myself so the bank does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, but there is something to be said
Speaker 1: for having a deadline. I mean a lot of people
Speaker 1: work better that way. It's almost like having a deadline
Speaker 1: going to the studio.
Speaker 2: That is kind of have to make your own you know.
Speaker 6: Luckily, I have to make my own restrictions, you know,
Speaker 6: because I don't have a lay like I have my
Speaker 6: own label. So I kind of say, Okay, I want
Speaker 6: to go make a record this month, and that's great,
Speaker 6: put it out that month and that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's nice. It's really nice unless something goes wrong
Speaker 6: and then I can't turn around and yell at anybody responsible.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but I like it.
Speaker 6: I started it with Southeastern, which was like my first
Speaker 6: big sort of record, and so that all lined up
Speaker 6: really really nicely.
Speaker 1: That's very lucky, very lucky because the timing of it,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it was very lucky.
Speaker 1: Big labels are not where you want to be anymore, no.
Speaker 6: And it's uh, yeah, I don't know. I don't even
Speaker 6: know what the formula is, what the plan is now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not sure. I mean, I'm still on a label.
Speaker 1: I love my label, but you know, sometimes I'm not
Speaker 1: sure what the better way would be. Because I have
Speaker 1: an experienced going out on my own. I think for
Speaker 1: you and your level of how you operate, it's probably perfect.
Speaker 2: I think it's great.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's great because I don't even like I'm not
Speaker 6: always looking to grow things.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm feeling pretty good. I'm fine. Yeah, like
Speaker 2: I'm fine.
Speaker 6: I like to be able to hear myself and have
Speaker 6: good gear and travel as comfortably as possible. And outside
Speaker 6: of that, it's like, you know, I don't I don't
Speaker 6: need more and more and more. I'm not going to
Speaker 6: retire and no stop.
Speaker 1: Do you imagine?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what would that be? What would that even mean?
Speaker 1: It would be really hard.
Speaker 6: It would be so I'd be worse than Elton, Like
Speaker 6: he's retired half a dozen times in the last two years,
Speaker 6: and I would be worse than that.
Speaker 2: I would just I'm back. Yeah, I'm it's all reunion tour.
Speaker 6: I'm reuniting myself, my own molecules are reuniting for another tour.
Speaker 1: Well, I think that's the great part about this job
Speaker 1: is you don't have to retire.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you don't have to.
Speaker 1: Tour anymore, but you can still play and record or
Speaker 1: do local stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And we were never silly rock stars, so it's not
Speaker 6: gonna look dumb.
Speaker 1: Speak for yourself six yeah, No, I think we're good like.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm not talking about like like level like yeah,
Speaker 6: like we like you have a big deal. No, I
Speaker 6: was joking, but you didn't have your foot up on
Speaker 6: the monitor wearing like spandex and definitely not.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that means at some point you're gonna have.
Speaker 6: To have hang upire yeah, yeah, or just yeah, or
Speaker 6: just just just spain.
Speaker 1: Maybe a larger size.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's either a just the size or you're just
Speaker 6: going to be adjusting the whole time your own steady.
Speaker 2: All right, what should we do nowt.
Speaker 1: You want to do Foxes in the Snow?
Speaker 2: Yeah, let's do that. Let's do that.
Speaker 1: This is the title song on the record.
Speaker 6: It is, Yeah, this is the title Track's a strange
Speaker 6: song from me because it is it's just different, you know,
Speaker 6: it's really different.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: It's a little bouncy.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And also I kind of had to let go of.
Speaker 6: The idea of just being metaphorical and songwriterly and just
Speaker 6: say things that I wanted to say and play the
Speaker 6: guitar and sing with them and think, let's take all
Speaker 6: the context out, Let's take the ego out, Let's take
Speaker 6: the preconceived idea of what I'm supposed to do as
Speaker 6: a songwriter and just make.
Speaker 2: A song happen.
Speaker 1: Is that not you? Is that hard for you to
Speaker 1: let all that go?
Speaker 6: I don't think it will be now because I've done
Speaker 6: it in the past. But in the past, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 6: there was this kind of like, well, if I can't
Speaker 6: provide reachable insight with these lyrics, and I'm not doing
Speaker 6: my job, and it may have been true at one.
Speaker 1: Point, Okay, can you explain reachable insight Like does that
Speaker 1: mean like relatability or it's more the story you're telling
Speaker 1: is true.
Speaker 6: Oh well, it reveals something okay in the lyric about
Speaker 6: the process, and by reachable I mean not necessarily obvious,
Speaker 6: but also able to be found by the average listener.
Speaker 1: You're not hitting them over the head with it, but
Speaker 1: it's pretty much all there.
Speaker 6: For the Yeah, yeah, there are the clue. The mystery
Speaker 6: can be solved with the information, and you're not.
Speaker 1: Being overly cryptic, right, and you're not like trying to
Speaker 1: hide every every detail, yes.
Speaker 2: Or being vague or like running from anything.
Speaker 1: That's something I had to learn because in the beginning,
Speaker 1: I I didn't know how to write songs at all.
Speaker 1: And then I started and I tried to take all
Speaker 1: the eyes out of the song. I was tried to
Speaker 1: be very you know, vague, and then I was like,
Speaker 1: that's not very.
Speaker 2: Soulful, right, No, it's not, Yeah, it's not. Yeah.
Speaker 6: The soulful stuff to me is the like the details
Speaker 6: that are for whatever reason, you're reluctant to include them,
Speaker 6: either because they're too much or too revealing or makes
Speaker 6: you cringe, or because you think this is not going
Speaker 6: to apply to everybody. That's where I really hit something.
Speaker 1: I think it doesn't matter if it applies to everybody.
Speaker 1: You have to let that go. Is that what you're
Speaker 1: talking about?
Speaker 6: Well, over time, I started valuing the strength of the
Speaker 6: connection more than the width of the connection. Okay, so
Speaker 6: it was like this may not hit you know, a
Speaker 6: thousand people, but the ten people it hits are going
Speaker 6: to think I know a.
Speaker 2: Secret about it, and that's more fun for me.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, because that's what I latched onto about songs.
Speaker 6: It's like, oh, how does this apply so accurately to
Speaker 6: my life? And sometimes that would be a detail or
Speaker 6: a lyric, but sometimes it would just be a moment
Speaker 6: like I remember listening to songs and you know, because
Speaker 6: I'm not going to relate to book A White or
Speaker 6: Robert Johnson, but I was a ten year old kid
Speaker 6: in Alabama listening to this, But there would be a
Speaker 6: feeling created and just a little section of that song
Speaker 6: that I would think, Oh, this is very specific to me.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 1: That's the beauty of it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, and that's it. That's the real thing.
Speaker 6: And I've never you know, like big, bombastic like pop
Speaker 6: ballads that are aimed at every living human being never
Speaker 6: hit me in that way.
Speaker 1: They're too broad.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And I admire the craft of it, and I
Speaker 6: think some of them are fantastic, you know, even some
Speaker 6: of the big commercial Like when I listen to Faithfully
Speaker 6: the Journey song faith on the Road, yes, I'm like, well,
Speaker 6: this is but this is specific, very specific. Now, there
Speaker 6: was a window in time where you could write a
Speaker 6: like I'm Sad on the Road as a rock star
Speaker 6: song and everybody would be like, yeah, that's my life too,
Speaker 6: Like nowadays.
Speaker 1: You couldn't get away with that. I don't think that's funny.
Speaker 1: I had a bus, my first bus. I was twenty three,
Speaker 1: very first bus. It kept breaking down, but the driver
Speaker 1: was real sweet. He asked me at the end of
Speaker 1: the run to record that song for his wife.
Speaker 2: Really, how sweet is it.
Speaker 1: Was really sweet? Oh, I love that he was just
Speaker 1: talking about it. I don't think it ever happened.
Speaker 2: I bet it never happened.
Speaker 1: No, I didn't get a chance, but it was like
Speaker 1: it did not happened. I should have done it, but
Speaker 1: it was like he was asking us. We were taking
Speaker 1: our suitcase off the bus literally, and it was just
Speaker 1: a crazy time. But I thought it was sweet.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's very sweet. It's a very sweet idea. Yeah,
Speaker 6: that's I think that's maybe like the first song I
Speaker 6: learned to play on Vienna.
Speaker 2: Really it's a jam. We ready. I love my love,
Speaker 2: I love her mouth, I love the.
Speaker 3: Way she turns so in her house.
Speaker 2: I love my love her he bilder bed.
Speaker 3: Where she's heard.
Speaker 2: Me sing words it can't be set.
Speaker 9: And all the dreams dian Sen, all the dive and
Speaker 9: hiding me.
Speaker 2: To put my soul asleep now it's easy. I love
Speaker 2: my love, her golden hair.
Speaker 9: I like to picture her alone when I'm got there.
Speaker 3: I like her friend.
Speaker 2: The ones I know.
Speaker 9: They leave drops the flood, like boxes in the storm,
Speaker 9: and all the beast beneath her ben she defeeds and
Speaker 9: knees for dad, falls asleep inside.
Speaker 2: Night seems so easy. I love my love. I love
Speaker 2: her bike.
Speaker 9: I like the way she dissembles me at night.
Speaker 3: I love her well, and I love her person. I
Speaker 3: like the cart, but I really like the steak.
Speaker 2: For all the boys.
Speaker 9: I could have.
Speaker 2: Been a fine siding wind.
Speaker 8: Push me here against her skin, she'd see me.
Speaker 2: I love my love. I love her hands.
Speaker 9: I love the way she sees a child child maid.
Speaker 3: I love my love, I love I love.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was fun that. It was really good. Yeah,
Speaker 2: it was really good. I don't know that I've ever
Speaker 2: played that song with anybody else.
Speaker 1: Well, I would assume not, because you just put this
Speaker 1: album out right.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's pretty recent and it's all so low. Yeah,
Speaker 6: and I've been working some of the songs up with
Speaker 6: my band.
Speaker 1: You have Okay, I was wondering about that, but.
Speaker 2: That one I haven't. We haven't done that one yet.
Speaker 1: It's a little different.
Speaker 2: It is different, saucier. It's very saucy. Yeah, you get
Speaker 2: too many people, it's too sauce. It's too much sauce.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that got the kind of groove where you
Speaker 1: add too many people, it gets a little kitchy. Yes,
Speaker 1: but it's not like that.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 6: If it's by yourself, you can get away with a
Speaker 6: lot by yourself. You start adding funky drums and you
Speaker 6: can get a little This is not hot at all, exactly.
Speaker 1: It is a hot song's sexy. It's kind of a
Speaker 1: hot song.
Speaker 6: It's you know, honesty, I think can be really hot,
Speaker 6: but it's it's t.
Speaker 2: There's a risk.
Speaker 6: You've got a risk to be hot in a song
Speaker 6: or in any you've got to risk something.
Speaker 1: You got to not be trying to be hot.
Speaker 2: No, you can't be trying to be hot.
Speaker 6: You've got to be trying not to fall on your
Speaker 6: face and embarrass yourself and then it just kind of happens.
Speaker 6: But that's the tough par it It's like, there's all
Speaker 6: these little micro fears when I'm writing these songs, and
Speaker 6: I just kind of learned to welcome them and say, oh,
Speaker 6: this is the chance to make something good.
Speaker 2: Happen.
Speaker 1: That's good because I you know, I've been reading up
Speaker 1: and listening to interviews, and I feel like people really
Speaker 1: have this ownership over lyrics these days, and for some
Speaker 1: people more than others, and for you, I feel like
Speaker 1: it's a lot. I feel like people really take what
Speaker 1: you're singing about and make it the word, you know,
Speaker 1: get the truth, the gospel of truth. When it's like
Speaker 1: songwriting is this whole push and pull of all that stuff.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and you can pick from anywhere, yeah, you know,
Speaker 6: and it's it's it's such a like almost a mixed
Speaker 6: media kind of thing. It's like, well, this happened to me,
Speaker 6: but this happened in a bar. I heard somebody behind
Speaker 6: me say it, and it has and the piece.
Speaker 1: Of people think it's all you all the time?
Speaker 2: Yeah they do.
Speaker 1: That must be I mean I would get in my
Speaker 1: head if it was like that. I don't feel like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody holds me quite to the fire
Speaker 1: like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, maybe not.
Speaker 6: I mean, it's you know, it's it started with that
Speaker 6: damn confessional songwriting in the seventies and.
Speaker 2: Which the people who made it hated.
Speaker 6: That term, and everybody was like, oh, she's a confessional songwriter,
Speaker 6: and she's like, I'm not confessingating to you. I'm making
Speaker 6: stuff rhyme, you know, And.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't.
Speaker 6: I think that also really limits some people's ability to
Speaker 6: become songwriters because they don't realize, you know, Like I
Speaker 6: remember hearing when I was little, my mom loved John Prime,
Speaker 6: and so she would play John Prime records for me,
Speaker 6: and I got later on, you know, after I started
Speaker 6: doing this, I got to be friends with John and
Speaker 6: we played a bunch of shows together, and it's just, oh,
Speaker 6: it was unbelievable. I mean, really, nothing better about this
Speaker 6: job than getting to meet somebody like John and spend
Speaker 6: time with him. But I remember when I was a
Speaker 6: kid hearing Angel from Montgomery, my mom listening to it,
Speaker 6: and she was listening to his version, and I remember
Speaker 6: thinking like, oh, he's not an old woman that first line.
Speaker 6: You know, I'm an old woman. He's not an old woman.
Speaker 6: And then the light bulb hit and it's like, oh,
Speaker 6: it can come from anywhere, and you can use any
Speaker 6: version of yourself or any just pick and choose anything.
Speaker 6: And like movies and books are not arranged that way.
Speaker 6: They're all like, is this documentary or not is this
Speaker 6: picture on fiction and for us, for songs and for
Speaker 6: visual art. It can be any combination, and I love that.
Speaker 6: But people don't accept. People think that it's all straightforward about.
Speaker 1: You, and that would drive me nuts. But I'm glad
Speaker 1: you can get out of it and just be able
Speaker 1: to do it the way it's meant to be done,
Speaker 1: which is wild card.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, and it's not going to matter if
Speaker 6: the if the songs live five minutes longer than I do,
Speaker 6: it won't matter, Yeah, because nobody's looking back and saying,
Speaker 6: you know, what was going on in this person's life
Speaker 6: when they wrote this? You know what what exactly was
Speaker 6: happening to Zvin when he wrote Desperadoes under the Eves?
Speaker 2: Like you don't want to know the answer to that story,
Speaker 2: first of all.
Speaker 1: I know that's kind of what I think sometimes, Like
Speaker 1: I don't think anybody wants to know.
Speaker 6: Some of this, But most of mine is, you know,
Speaker 6: very simple and straightforward story wise. If I just sat
Speaker 6: and wrote about my life all the time, I would
Speaker 6: have run out of stuff a long time ago. Yeah,
Speaker 6: you know, because most of my life is pretty boring nowadays,
Speaker 6: and I like it that way.
Speaker 2: I like to keep it that way.
Speaker 1: Simplicity is good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think so.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well that's like I was. I was diving in
Speaker 1: and we were texting, and I told you I got
Speaker 1: inspired to write this line. What I'm saying here is
Speaker 1: between me and this song. Yeah, and I thought that
Speaker 1: was so funny.
Speaker 6: Yes, yeah, and it's good because that is the character.
Speaker 6: That's who the characters are.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And and and it's also between you and the song.
Speaker 1: But it might not be. It's not a triangle.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and how what was the next line? It was
Speaker 1: the however you take it can never be wrong. It's
Speaker 1: like when you're listening to music, you take it how
Speaker 1: you want, and you believe what you want, and you
Speaker 1: personalize it, and everybody internalizes the songs as them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1: And the best is when they it's about them.
Speaker 6: Yes, yes, and when they really truly feel it.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: It's like kids love the Beatles, but they don't know
Speaker 6: you know what I want.
Speaker 2: To hold your hand meant to them when they wrote that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, kids these days love Pink Pony Club.
Speaker 2: Yes, right, my kid doesn't know what that's about.
Speaker 6: No, yeah, I don't know if mine's caught on that
Speaker 6: when yet or not, but she has listened to.
Speaker 2: It a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I love it too.
Speaker 2: What a beautiful bunch of songs.
Speaker 1: I love her. Yeah, amazing, I'm really in.
Speaker 2: I'm so good.
Speaker 6: And I saw her at bonn U last year and
Speaker 6: just nailed every note just like the vocals were just
Speaker 6: beautiful and perfect and the band was so.
Speaker 2: Good and it was great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I would take my kids this year if it
Speaker 1: comes through.
Speaker 6: I mean, I think that that no matter how rible
Speaker 6: to that message is, it's a very very positive one.
Speaker 2: I agree.
Speaker 1: I agree the line.
Speaker 6: In is it Hot to Go where she says you
Speaker 6: like magic, I've got a rabbit and a wand and
Speaker 6: my daughter is singing along with that, and I'm like,
Speaker 6: she thinks this is just about pulling a rabbit out
Speaker 6: of your hat and having a magic one. And I
Speaker 6: was like, I'm glad she doesn't know how good that
Speaker 6: line is yet, you know, but it still works for
Speaker 6: if you're just visualizing pulling a rabbit out of hat,
Speaker 6: or you know, you get a little older, you're like, oh,
Speaker 6: that's a very good line. That's hilarious.
Speaker 1: Pulling it anywhere I.
Speaker 6: Keep it in a hat that would be really weird funny.
Speaker 1: Well, it's like The Double Meaning and all those children's
Speaker 1: movies that are the best ones that that have something
Speaker 1: for the grown ups too.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, she's great, she Silverstein.
Speaker 1: Course, you know it's the best.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I still I sit and cry reading this book
Speaker 2: to my kid. Yeah.
Speaker 6: Everybody talks about the Giving Tree, but the Missing Piece
Speaker 6: just whoops my ass.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Missing Pieces is a good one.
Speaker 6: It's so heavy when it's like the piece fits and
Speaker 6: then decides it doesn't want to be the piece. I'm like,
Speaker 6: Mercy's like, what is wrong with your Dad's like I'm
Speaker 6: having feelings.
Speaker 1: Yeah you'll know someday.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, no, kid, and you will. Yeah. This is
Speaker 2: the old song huh vampires? Yeah? How old is this
Speaker 2: it was?
Speaker 6: I guess it's getting close to ten years maybe, Okay
Speaker 6: for me, that's pretty old. And it was like I
Speaker 6: was going to the studio on Monday and I had,
Speaker 6: you know, record done in my mind.
Speaker 2: So it was like watching Hoarders. Do you remember that
Speaker 2: show Hoarders? Yes, that I went through a little face
Speaker 2: where I watched that made me feel so much better.
Speaker 6: Well, it's my desk disaster and Amanda my at the
Speaker 6: time she said, you need to be writing a song,
Speaker 6: and I was like, I've got the I got the
Speaker 6: record done. She was like, just get off your ass
Speaker 6: and work and I was like, okay, so this So
Speaker 6: I started out from the perspective of like, what is
Speaker 6: it about love songs that I don't like? And it's
Speaker 6: so hard, I think to write a love song until
Speaker 6: you just find an angle and uh, because there's just
Speaker 6: so many of them. But I was like, what is
Speaker 6: it I don't like? So I started off with it's
Speaker 6: not it's not, it's not and it's like, no, it's
Speaker 6: actually not the way that you look in that dress.
Speaker 2: It's not the you know.
Speaker 6: By the time I got to the chorus, it's like, oh,
Speaker 6: it's because I'm going to die.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's why I love you. Because if I was not.
Speaker 6: Going to die, I would say, well, we'll get around
Speaker 6: to this, like there would be no risk. The time
Speaker 6: is such a huge risk. And and then I had
Speaker 6: I had a song.
Speaker 1: You know, that's great.
Speaker 6: But it started I got really lucky with it because
Speaker 6: it just started out like kind of grumpy, like.
Speaker 2: I don't want to write a songeah yeah.
Speaker 6: And then I was like, well, what is it about
Speaker 6: songs that I hate, let's see. And then I got
Speaker 6: to the chorus and I was like, oh, it's because
Speaker 6: we're limited.
Speaker 1: I like that way of thinking about writing a song.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, you can go anywhere. Yeah, you can start
Speaker 6: from any point. And sometimes it's just so literal. It's like,
Speaker 6: I really what I wanted to write was I don't
Speaker 6: want to write a song right now.
Speaker 2: But you know anyway, all right?
Speaker 9: Not the long, fluent rest that you're in, poor, the
Speaker 9: lie coming all through your skin, fragile harm you've protected for.
Speaker 2: Sure, long.
Speaker 9: For the mercy and your sense of riding. It's not
Speaker 9: your hands search and slow in the God, or your
Speaker 9: nails leaving love water mark. It's not the way you
Speaker 9: talk me after your questions, like directions to the truth
Speaker 9: snowing at this tangle rightly one of us.
Speaker 2: You'll have to spend some days alone.
Speaker 9: Maybe we'll get forty used again.
Speaker 3: But one day I'll be gone, one day'll be.
Speaker 2: We were made person.
Speaker 3: Death was a joke. We'd go out on sidewalk and smoke.
Speaker 9: And laughing, all the lovers and their plan.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't feel the need to.
Speaker 3: Hold your hand. But maybe time running out is a gift.
Speaker 8: So I work hard till the end of my ship.
Speaker 3: To give you every second I could mind.
Speaker 2: And hold meies and me who's left behind, knowing that
Speaker 2: this can go.
Speaker 9: It's likely one of us will have to spend some
Speaker 9: days along.
Speaker 2: Maybe we'll get forty.
Speaker 9: Just get home one day, U, one day, be alright,
Speaker 9: no going at this tample. It's likely one of us
Speaker 9: will have to.
Speaker 3: Spend some days alone.
Speaker 2: Maybe you will get forty again.
Speaker 10: One day, one dayby.
Speaker 1: That's a great song, thank you, that's so great.
Speaker 6: That's better than hoarders, I guess that day.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's such a sweet sentiment.
Speaker 2: It's it's it's like dark.
Speaker 1: It's really sweet at first, and then when you dive
Speaker 1: into the lyrics more, it's like, oh, it's kind of dark.
Speaker 2: It's about death, but it's also really sweet.
Speaker 6: It's it's people will go just far enough into that
Speaker 6: song to get the opposite of the meaning sometimes, you know,
Speaker 6: and it's funny. But yeah, it's sort of like like
Speaker 6: it's not I'm not being sad that we're going to die.
Speaker 6: I mean, I am sad that we're going to die,
Speaker 6: but not in that song, and that song I'm celebrating
Speaker 6: it because it's like, this is the only reason that
Speaker 6: we bother to do all this stuff. You know, if not,
Speaker 6: we would smoke cigarettes and just that's true, you know,
Speaker 6: not ever reveal any part of ourself.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we'd be so lonely to be a vampire. I
Speaker 6: guess that Anne Rice read a bunch of books about that,
Speaker 6: how lonely vampires are.
Speaker 1: That's right. I forgot that. That's kind of the crux
Speaker 1: of what this.
Speaker 2: That's yeah.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I read those when I was a teenager. Maybe
Speaker 6: that's why I wound up writing the song in the studio.
Speaker 6: Dave Cobb did not want to cut that because it's
Speaker 6: just like he well, he just had like the titles
Speaker 6: of everything, and so we didn't. I didn't do demos.
Speaker 6: I hate to do demos because then everybody that hears
Speaker 6: it falls in love.
Speaker 2: With a version of it.
Speaker 1: I get demoitis real bad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't like it.
Speaker 1: I'd rather just use the demo.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 6: And so I'll go in if I'm recording with the
Speaker 6: whole band, I'm just going to sit down and play
Speaker 6: the song for everybody, and then we'll all go to
Speaker 6: our station and start recording. So that's the first time
Speaker 6: they've heard it. And that's a luxury because we can
Speaker 6: afford to be in the studio and they can all
Speaker 6: play well. And you know, some people have to practice
Speaker 6: things before they go start spending money on recording them.
Speaker 6: But I like to kind of spring it on them
Speaker 6: because I like to find that spot right before they
Speaker 6: are performing it, when they're still sort of creating it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well that's the best.
Speaker 2: That's the trick. Yeah. And that song. Dave was like, ah, well,
Speaker 2: we'll do that.
Speaker 6: Eventually because he just saw the word vampires and he
Speaker 6: thought it was like the monster mash or something.
Speaker 1: It was like a good heartfelt son, the most heartfelt.
Speaker 2: I thought it was gonna be like one, two, three.
Speaker 1: Four, it's funny.
Speaker 6: Finally, like a couple of days before the end of
Speaker 6: the session, I was like, let's we're doing that song, Dabe,
Speaker 6: and you know, he was crying at the console like, oh,
Speaker 6: never mind.
Speaker 2: And that was fun. That one was really fun.
Speaker 1: That's a good one. You have all these songs from
Speaker 1: that era from earlier than that. Do songs change for
Speaker 1: you the meanings when you perform them. I get asked
Speaker 1: this a lot, and I never really know how to
Speaker 1: answer it, so I'm not sure why I'm asking it,
Speaker 1: but you know, when you're performing a song that you
Speaker 1: wrote many many years ago, maybe about something specific, maybe not,
Speaker 1: do you feel like songs are alive and they changed meaning?
Speaker 2: I don't know that they.
Speaker 1: Or do this bring it back to you to a place.
Speaker 6: You know, I feel like the context of my life
Speaker 6: since then changes meaning, But the song itself doesn't necessary.
Speaker 6: It's that's a good question, because I kind of wonder
Speaker 6: about that too.
Speaker 2: I think maybe it depends on the song.
Speaker 6: It depends on the song. Yeah, yeah, just like everything else,
Speaker 6: it depends on the song. Yeah, some of them do
Speaker 6: some of them. Some of them go from maybe not
Speaker 6: meaning but being you know what they exist as in
Speaker 6: my mind. You know, they go from existing as.
Speaker 2: This sort of like red hot.
Speaker 6: Profession of something either love or lust or regret or
Speaker 6: you know, growth or something. They go from that to
Speaker 6: being you know, just sort of a document. But the
Speaker 6: good thing about it is like we get to live
Speaker 6: with them.
Speaker 2: And that's really kind of.
Speaker 6: What I take away from all of it is how
Speaker 6: lucky we are to get to pull these things back
Speaker 6: out of the coffin every night.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, because a memory book it is but
Speaker 2: painters don't get to do that.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 6: You know, if you're if you're a paint, you paint,
Speaker 6: you paint. You know, either you keep it or if
Speaker 6: you're if you sell paintings, you're probably not gonna see
Speaker 6: it again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's also true.
Speaker 6: And to spend that much time and that much of
Speaker 6: yourself on something and then it goes to somebody else's
Speaker 6: house forever, it's kind of heartbreaking to me. It's also
Speaker 6: kind I think one of the reasons why.
Speaker 2: That is fine.
Speaker 6: Art and songwriting is not you know, it's done, it's done.
Speaker 6: It's only decorative. Yeah, it serves no other true purpose
Speaker 6: like songs. You know, sometimes I think we're we're we're
Speaker 6: singing to motivate somebody to feel somewhere, or to get
Speaker 6: somebody to make out with us, sort of, you know what.
Speaker 6: But but but art at its root is useless. And
Speaker 6: you know, I think we're so lucky that we get
Speaker 6: to take these songs back out every night and bring
Speaker 6: them to life for a purpose.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And looking out at people in the audience crying
Speaker 1: yeah for singing along. It just it like revives it all.
Speaker 2: It does, It makes it.
Speaker 1: Almost makes it beyond you know, without a doubt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, without a doubt.
Speaker 6: I mean you, I mean you've had big hit songs
Speaker 6: that feeling is weird, Like I've had one that sort
Speaker 6: of went on that trip completely separately of me and just.
Speaker 1: On its own life.
Speaker 6: It does, and it's just a whole different situation for people.
Speaker 6: And you think I was in my bedroom, you know,
Speaker 6: sitting cross like it on the bed, just trying to
Speaker 6: figure out what word rhyme, and now all of a sudden,
Speaker 6: it's just this big, huge thing that doesn't even really
Speaker 6: feel it's still mine, but it's not mine anymore.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree with that. It doesn't feel like it's
Speaker 1: yours anymore, but it.
Speaker 2: Is, it's still yours. Yeah. Try to change a lyric though,
Speaker 2: and sees think about that.
Speaker 1: We'll get mad about that. I'll get mad you her
Speaker 1: change lyrics kind of like I do how you're feeling.
Speaker 6: But not like significant ones. I'll change like a connector
Speaker 6: you know, I'll go from four to butt from and
Speaker 6: to butt sometimes present.
Speaker 2: Yeah, just fix it, like fix the grammar in my song.
Speaker 1: Make it better.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but not in any.
Speaker 6: Way that's like a big like I won't take a
Speaker 6: name and change it, or you know, but I'll take
Speaker 6: like a like an ad and make it a butt
Speaker 6: if it's supposed to be.
Speaker 1: Isn't Didn't Dylan do that a bunch?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, changed stuff. We would change it. He'd have
Speaker 2: so many versions.
Speaker 1: That's cool too.
Speaker 2: I think that's really I think it's cool.
Speaker 6: I saw him play at Brooklyn Bowl in Nashville a
Speaker 6: couple of summers ago, and he was doing this version
Speaker 6: of When I Paint My Masterpiece. It was like almost
Speaker 6: like somba, so really or something. And I was talking
Speaker 6: to his tour manager afterward about it, and he said
Speaker 6: somebody had asked him during a show. Somebody had yelled
Speaker 6: up at Dylan, play something we know and he started
Speaker 6: playing like the girl from MPANMA, which I think that's
Speaker 6: the funniest thing. They didn't say, play of Bob Dylan
Speaker 6: and it's so good. And the band started following in
Speaker 6: and he started singing when I Paint My Masterpiece, and
Speaker 6: it became the version they were touring.
Speaker 1: That's cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, still he's still quick.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's great.
Speaker 2: Yep. But those were good shows at the Bowling Alley.
Speaker 6: They were he was talking to the audience and like
Speaker 6: coming out from behind the mic and smiling and stuff.
Speaker 2: It was was cool.
Speaker 1: That's great. He still got it.
Speaker 6: He still got it all right, let me check my
Speaker 6: tune in here. Oh thank you. I need to get
Speaker 6: it done again. It's chipping and I look pretty ratchet.
Speaker 6: My fingernails started splitting, h know, a couple of years
Speaker 6: ago from I guess from playing the guitar so much and.
Speaker 2: Just pulling the nail bed away from the nail.
Speaker 1: You play with your nails.
Speaker 2: I do some, but not.
Speaker 6: I think it's more about like when the fat on
Speaker 6: my finger pulls away from the fingernail, it doesn't so.
Speaker 1: On that hand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so this hand splits down the middle.
Speaker 6: And so I started getting uh, powder dip or dip powder?
Speaker 2: Is it dip powdered powder dip?
Speaker 11: I don't know.
Speaker 2: It's hard.
Speaker 1: I've never heard of it.
Speaker 2: It's a nail thing.
Speaker 6: It's a nail thing, and it takes them like they
Speaker 6: have to put it on like four different layers.
Speaker 2: It's like it is, but it's really hard.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 6: And I started using that and I loved it, but
Speaker 6: the problem is it was really thick, and so I
Speaker 6: would accidentally hit strings that I didn't mean to hit,
Speaker 6: and so I had to stop using that.
Speaker 1: So now I'm on jail.
Speaker 2: I'm just doing jail.
Speaker 6: Yeah, but it comes off so easily, and I get
Speaker 6: so sad when I look at my fingers and my
Speaker 6: nails are chip.
Speaker 1: Said, So I didn't know this song?
Speaker 2: Oh really?
Speaker 1: Yeah I might have, but I feel okay, So we're
Speaker 1: going to do this Neil Young song. With a lot
Speaker 1: of artists, it's like this, but with Neil more than anyone.
Speaker 1: There's always some pocket that I don't know that when
Speaker 1: somebody opens the door to it, I get so excited.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, me too.
Speaker 6: He's got so many records and so many, so many
Speaker 6: different kinds of songs, and this this record Freedom I
Speaker 6: think it was was it eighty eighty eight, eighty nine maybe,
Speaker 6: And it hit me just like a ton of bricks,
Speaker 6: Like still the one of his that probably affected me
Speaker 6: the most, really when in nineteen ninety.
Speaker 1: Okay, so around the time it came.
Speaker 2: Out, Yeah, I was about ten years old.
Speaker 1: Cool ten year old.
Speaker 6: I was a pretty cool ten year old, not if
Speaker 6: you ask the other ten year olds, but.
Speaker 2: In hindsight, in hindsight, but I remember it.
Speaker 6: Having two versions of rocking in the Free World on
Speaker 6: this record, one with crazy horse and then one just
Speaker 6: him acoustic.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 6: And so now you can just trace that basically to
Speaker 6: everything that I have done in my career. It's like
Speaker 6: I just made my whole life out of those two
Speaker 6: songs on that round.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: But this one is so beautiful and.
Speaker 1: Linda, Linda Ronstad is one of my favorites.
Speaker 2: So great. Oh, I love I love Linda. I don't
Speaker 2: know Linda, but I worship Linda.
Speaker 1: I got to meet her onz Yeah, super sweet. Yeah.
Speaker 6: I got a really good story from patterson hood because
Speaker 6: I used to be in his band, Drive By Truckers,
Speaker 6: and his dad was the bass player in the Muscle
Speaker 6: Shol's rhythm section in the sixties, seventies, mostly the seventies
Speaker 6: and eighties and nineties, and Linda would come into town
Speaker 6: and record at Muscle Sholes Sound and she would stay
Speaker 6: at Patterson's house hang out with Patterson's mom. And this
Speaker 6: is Patterson's story, but it's a good one. Apparently one
Speaker 6: day she wanted Patterson was like five, six, seven years old,
Speaker 6: and Linda wanted a cheeseburger, and She's like, where can
Speaker 6: I go get a cheeseburger and a beer? And his
Speaker 6: mom said, well, the smokehouse, but women don't go in
Speaker 6: the smokehouse, and like yes, and of course, so she
Speaker 6: tied the shirt up and put the short song, Oh man,
Speaker 6: and the first woman to go get a cheeseburger at
Speaker 6: the smokehouse Lawrence, Alabama is Linda Ronstead.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's a good cheeseburger.
Speaker 1: That's amazing.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think Patterson was a little bit in love with
Speaker 6: Linda Ronstadt one six or seven.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, I think I was in love
Speaker 1: with her when.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it's impossible not to be.
Speaker 1: I mean, she's just so ballsy and also gorgeous.
Speaker 2: And just cool and good. Those songs were.
Speaker 1: So good best singer.
Speaker 6: It's just the harmony stuff, Like I still hear things.
Speaker 6: I'm like, oh, that's beautiful, and then I look at
Speaker 6: the liner notes, like of course it is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, she's the best. I'm gonna play worly Is
Speaker 1: that cool?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very cool?
Speaker 1: Is it too loud for?
Speaker 2: It's good for me? I think I maintained thinks so ready.
Speaker 3: Road the river.
Speaker 9: Flow Janney to the sea.
Speaker 3: He was on the shore, ruded like a tree.
Speaker 6: She was seeing me.
Speaker 9: Riding on a way through all She heard his call
Speaker 9: and baby all she gave.
Speaker 7: And was hanging on a limb.
Speaker 9: She told him out a day and start again.
Speaker 1: And Noel.
Speaker 3: Was hanging on alim.
Speaker 2: She told him out a day.
Speaker 11: She told that day.
Speaker 5: And window Moldy who through the window call in a
Speaker 5: Cordier recordon and was scooted the haws he played.
Speaker 1: She knew he had to go.
Speaker 9: There was something about Freda.
Speaker 1: He thought he.
Speaker 7: Didn't go, And Nolla was hanging on alim.
Speaker 3: She told him mad day and started again, and Noil.
Speaker 10: Was hanging on alimb.
Speaker 11: She told him maud day She taught about a day.
Speaker 6: Do you ever flow.
Speaker 9: Gently to the scene And he was on the shore, roaded.
Speaker 3: Like a tree.
Speaker 6: She was here and there.
Speaker 9: Riding on the way through it all.
Speaker 7: She heard his call and gave it all she gave
Speaker 7: and was hanging on the live.
Speaker 11: She told him out of day, She told him out
Speaker 11: a day.
Speaker 2: So that sounds good to me. Yeah, that was so good,
Speaker 2: That was so fun.
Speaker 1: That's a pretty song.
Speaker 2: What a beautiful songs trance? Oh totally.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's so droning and so but the line there
Speaker 6: was something about freedom he thought he didn't know.
Speaker 2: Just kills me.
Speaker 1: That's a line.
Speaker 6: It's a line and at first you think it's like
Speaker 6: space kneels like this, Like there are people who, like
Speaker 6: I have so much respect for who are songwriters who
Speaker 6: just don't buy it, who are like Kneel's like a
Speaker 6: broken clock, he's write twice a day. But I don't
Speaker 6: think that's the case all because I think this line
Speaker 6: could appear to that. But I've been in that experience
Speaker 6: where I thought that that I thought there was more,
Speaker 6: you know, and I may have made a decision because
Speaker 6: I thought there was more for me, and then later
Speaker 6: on I think that's a line about regret. There's something
Speaker 6: about freedom. He thought he didn't know.
Speaker 2: But he did.
Speaker 6: I like that he was right the first time around.
Speaker 6: I just love that one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think Neil does that. It sounds like
Speaker 2: he's stumbling, but he's not. He's not.
Speaker 1: I think for me, I feel like Neil just says
Speaker 1: what it is, yeah a lot. Yeah, And sometimes that
Speaker 1: can sound clunky to people. Yeah, but it's always right
Speaker 1: here in the heart.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know what I mean. Yeah, And sometimes
Speaker 2: it's clunky.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like when he's singing about Apple music, you know,
Speaker 1: he's about it, something like that he sounds a little
Speaker 1: clunky sometimes in the moment because it's current. In hindsight,
Speaker 1: all that current stuff that he wrote about back in
Speaker 1: the day.
Speaker 2: Neil was right exactly, it was right we need Neil
Speaker 2: was right right. Yeah, And even like the clunkiness.
Speaker 6: One of my favorite things about him is that his
Speaker 6: music is that I get the sense that he not
Speaker 6: only does he not care if we like it not,
Speaker 6: but sometimes he would rather we didn't.
Speaker 1: He could not care less.
Speaker 2: It's just this is what it is.
Speaker 1: Well, he wants to he wants to make you think
Speaker 1: about it. I think, yeah, well this has been a delight.
Speaker 2: I have really enjoyed it. Thank you so much.
Speaker 6: Thank you for having so great really nice to make
Speaker 6: music with you. Yeah more please, Yeah, let's do more.
Speaker 1: Always I always leave these wanting more.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, this is this is really a cool setup though.
Speaker 6: It's a cool way to do things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's fun for people who are down to be loose.
Speaker 2: Some people get too nervous.
Speaker 1: I mean, nobody who's done it?
Speaker 2: But yeah, tell me tell me who is.
Speaker 1: No, No, it was great. I just feel like it's
Speaker 1: a lot to ask if somebody who's not comfortable in
Speaker 1: this scenario yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: Did you did you start out like, uh, like playing
Speaker 6: with your friends and in rooms and parties and circles
Speaker 6: and things like that.
Speaker 1: You Yeah, No, I didn't have anything.
Speaker 2: I didn't have a lot. I didn't have a lot.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 1: I I mostly played in school and stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think sometimes for people who started out like playing
Speaker 6: in bigger groups of people at house parties and sitting
Speaker 6: around oak trees and things, that it might be a
Speaker 6: little bit more comfortable.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I will say the sort of country more country
Speaker 1: leaning artists have been all completely down. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 1: it's a little easier. I think, so is that sort
Speaker 1: of just sitting in a room and playing thing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but I think I came from jazz, where we were
Speaker 1: always just chamming and sort of doing gigs.
Speaker 6: And actually listening to each other, which is that's another
Speaker 6: level exactly music. We we have learned not to listen
Speaker 6: to the banjo player very early on.
Speaker 1: It's so loud you have no choice.
Speaker 2: That's why acoustic guitars got so good. They were trying
Speaker 2: to drown out those bandos.
Speaker 1: Awesome, Well, thanks.
Speaker 2: Thank you, it's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: Oh that was fun.
Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. Great.
Speaker 1: I love him, me too. He's just amazing. If you
Speaker 1: want to know what songs we played in this episode,
Speaker 1: the first song was Eileen from Foxes in the Snow,
Speaker 1: released in twenty twenty five. Second song was a title
Speaker 1: track from that same album, Foxes in the Snow. The
Speaker 1: third song was If We Were Vampires by Jason Asbel
Speaker 1: in the four hundred Unit from the Nashville Sound album
Speaker 1: in twenty seventeen, and the fourth song was Hanging on
Speaker 1: a Limb by Neil Young from his album Freedom, which
Speaker 1: was released in nineteen eighty nine. I love that song
Speaker 1: so much. I'm so glad he suggested it. A special
Speaker 1: thanks to Jason Isbel for joining us today, and we'll
Speaker 1: be back next week with Maria Zardoya. Nora Jones is
Speaker 1: playing along as a production of iHeart Podcasts. Visit Nora
Speaker 1: Jones channel and be sure to subscribe while you're there.
Speaker 1: I'm your host, Nora Jones. This episode was recorded by
Speaker 1: Matt Marinelli. Video by heck More Media. Additional video by
Speaker 1: Kay Loggins, mixed by Jamie Landry, Video edit by Marcus Rutledge,
Speaker 1: Audio post production and mastering by Greg Tobler. Artwork by
Speaker 1: Eliza Frye. Photography by Shervin Linez, Produced by Nora Jones
Speaker 1: and Sarah Oda. Executive producers Aaron wang Kaufman and Jordan Runtog.
Speaker 1: Marketing lead Queen Anake, Thank you.
Speaker 2: You're welcome. Thanks listening,