WEBVTT - Jeff Hanna 0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:12.440 Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast. 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:17.320 My guest today is Jeff Kenna, the Nitty Nitty Dirt band. Jeff, 0:00:17.360 --> 0:00:19.959 good to have you on the podcast. Thanks Bob, happy 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:24.279 to be here. Man. So the band just released a 0:00:24.280 --> 0:00:29.240 new album, Dirt. Does Dylan tell me the backstory? Why Dylan? 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:33.199 Why now? Well? Um, we we wanted to get into 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:37.080 the studio with this latest version, this latest lineup from 0:00:37.080 --> 0:00:40.680 the band, and uh, we had not done any recording. 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.680 We thought, you know, we know, we talked about doing 0:00:43.720 --> 0:00:48.720 a single source songwriter sort of you know, one source, 0:00:48.800 --> 0:00:50.959 Bob Dylan in this case, and he was the name 0:00:51.000 --> 0:00:54.240 that kept coming up. It just seemed a real natural, 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:58.280 uh spot, because he has a zillion songs and you 0:00:58.320 --> 0:01:02.720 can go anywhere musically with his material. Um, so there 0:01:02.760 --> 0:01:05.440 you go. That was kind of it. And we've we've 0:01:05.440 --> 0:01:07.959 recorded some of us. We recorded you Ain't Going Nowhere 0:01:08.000 --> 0:01:10.679 several years ago, which is one of our favorite Darling tunes. 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:14.640 Yeah that listen from the opening track on Sweetheart of 0:01:14.640 --> 0:01:17.039 the Rodeo. Not enough people knew that back then, but 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:21.720 one of the great tracks. When are the great tracks? Absolutely? Okay, 0:01:21.920 --> 0:01:24.800 So when you go to make a record today because 0:01:24.920 --> 0:01:27.200 you've been in the business and excess of fifty years. 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:29.840 The old days, pre internet, you had to get a label. 0:01:30.319 --> 0:01:32.000 They gave you the money. How did you do with 0:01:32.040 --> 0:01:35.800 this time? This time? Actually, when we went into the studio, 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:37.920 we did not have the label. We just went and 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:41.759 took out a loan, you know, basically, and started recording. 0:01:41.800 --> 0:01:44.399 We started recording this album. Wait wait, wait, what what 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.200 one sect? Did you literally take out a loan? No? 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:52.640 But okay, you'd ever know with people's finances, well, you know, Uh, no, 0:01:52.840 --> 0:01:54.920 you don't. And we were lucky enough to have a 0:01:54.960 --> 0:01:58.560 few bucks saved up from twenty nineteen. We actually started 0:01:58.600 --> 0:02:05.680 recording this album uh in early March of and recorded 0:02:06.160 --> 0:02:11.160 eight tracks. Jumped down the bus on marchall on March 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:15.919 eleven and played uh story. We jumped on the bus 0:02:15.919 --> 0:02:19.000 on March tenth and played our first and last shows 0:02:19.000 --> 0:02:22.560 of March eleventh. In March twelfth, that was it. Curtain 0:02:22.639 --> 0:02:25.799 came down, end of story. We got guys that live 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:28.320 all over the country. There four of us live in Nashville, 0:02:28.680 --> 0:02:31.720 but uh two of the two of the longtime guys, 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:35.600 Jimmy Fadden and Bob Carpenter. Bob lives in Los Angeles 0:02:35.680 --> 0:02:40.040 and Jimmy lives in Sarasota, Florida. So then lockdown came 0:02:40.080 --> 0:02:41.959 and that was it. We just sat for a while. 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:46.240 Ray Ray Kennedy, who's our producer, um and I'm sitting 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:51.320 in his studio right now. Uh he uh basically locked 0:02:51.320 --> 0:02:54.600 the studio up as well. There was no activity. You know, 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:59.119 everybody kind of hunkered down, as they say, Okay, when 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:02.639 things started to loosen up, very specifically, when did you 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.000 get back in the studio. You know, I think I 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.560 think the first time I even came by the studio 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:13.240 was probably in you know, early summer of uh, you know, 0:03:13.280 --> 0:03:15.920 we were all getting out and about, but it was, 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:18.200 you know, we were I don't know, we were pretty 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.520 careful about where we went. And Ray Ray had been 0:03:21.520 --> 0:03:25.440 doing some work with Lucinda Williams he produces Lucinda and 0:03:25.440 --> 0:03:29.680 and Steve Earle as well, and uh as as as 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:33.320 the summer started coming to a close, we started talking about, 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:35.400 you know, let's get back in there and listen to 0:03:35.440 --> 0:03:37.960 these let's listen to him and we had the rough 0:03:38.000 --> 0:03:41.720 mixes that we had done in early March, but we 0:03:41.720 --> 0:03:43.920 we weren't sure if this album was ever again. We man, 0:03:43.960 --> 0:03:46.000 we didn't know what was going on at all. Nobody 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:48.200 knew if they're ever gonna tour again, Nobody ever knew 0:03:48.200 --> 0:03:50.760 if they were going to finish records that were you know, 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:55.560 in the process and the progress, and uh, we finally 0:03:55.640 --> 0:03:58.360 got back in in I think guess it was fall 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:02.120 of and we started talking about The Times They Are Changing, 0:04:02.520 --> 0:04:05.440 which we which was the last track we recorded in 0:04:05.480 --> 0:04:08.200 the first batch of sessions, and it was like, well, 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:13.640 you know, let's finish that. It's all it's always timely, 0:04:14.360 --> 0:04:16.760 it's it's one of Dylan's you know, best known, but 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:21.440 also just it's on point, always that tune, you know. 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.159 And that's when we started calling up our friends and 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:27.120 see if they wanted to come in and sang on 0:04:27.160 --> 0:04:31.520 the song. So specifically who sang on I mean, I know, 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:33.480 but from my audience, who's sang on The Times They 0:04:33.480 --> 0:04:38.360 Are Changing? Jason isbel Uh, the War Entreaty, Michael Trotter, 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:45.400 Jor and Tania Trotter, Um, Roseanne Cash, Steve Earle Uh 0:04:45.520 --> 0:04:48.320 and my wife Matresa actually came in. Matraca Burd came 0:04:48.360 --> 0:04:51.200 in and sang harmony with the track that we do 0:04:51.320 --> 0:04:55.800 with Roseanne Okay, do you have ongoing relationships with all 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.520 those people or was that through Ray? How did those 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:01.440 people ultimately get on the record. It was it was 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:04.320 mostly just because I've known these folks. You know, I've 0:05:04.360 --> 0:05:07.800 known Steve since the eighties when we got we both 0:05:08.080 --> 0:05:10.359 we both kind of got to Nashville the same time 0:05:10.680 --> 0:05:14.000 hit music Row in the early eighties. Steve roll Uh, 0:05:14.200 --> 0:05:16.560 Roseanne I've known for a very long time. We've done 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:21.520 recording in the past. Um Uh, we're entreaty. Actually met 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:26.080 them um at Tell your RDE Bluegrass festival back in 0:05:26.960 --> 0:05:29.680 Emmy Lou Harris introduced us and we hit it off 0:05:29.680 --> 0:05:33.039 and we've been friends ever since. Jason Isabel I've known 0:05:33.080 --> 0:05:35.640 for I guess I've known Jason for on ten years, 0:05:35.640 --> 0:05:42.240 I think. So it was, you know, I I figured 0:05:42.320 --> 0:05:47.560 that the appeal of the song would be enough, I 0:05:47.600 --> 0:05:51.040 think to get them in the door. And they're they're 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:57.360 really generous, wonderful folks. Everybody that took part in the recording, Well, 0:05:57.360 --> 0:06:00.640 that begs a question. But living in Nashville a long time, 0:06:00.720 --> 0:06:05.120 you started in southern California. What's different about Nashville than 0:06:05.160 --> 0:06:07.599 all these other music places. You make it sound like 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.120 everybody's living, you know, in the same little village and 0:06:10.120 --> 0:06:13.039 they all come over. What's it really like, you know 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:16.800 before before COVID let's let's give that coffee up. Now 0:06:16.800 --> 0:06:20.000 that's a good point. Um, well, i'll tell you. You know, 0:06:20.680 --> 0:06:22.239 you and I have talked about this in the past. 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:24.800 But we started in southern California. We can go into 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:26.760 the sort of history of that later if you want. 0:06:26.800 --> 0:06:31.040 But um, when we came up in the folk clubs 0:06:31.080 --> 0:06:36.000 in the late sixties, there was a real community going on. 0:06:36.240 --> 0:06:38.120 You know, all the folks that hung out at the 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:41.000 Ash Grove and the Troubuta or we would go to 0:06:41.040 --> 0:06:44.960 each other's houses or apartments or back porches or whatever, 0:06:45.279 --> 0:06:48.799 get out the guitars and start singing, you know, and 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.040 and you know, my my songwriter friends, we swapped songs 0:06:52.880 --> 0:06:56.600 as as time went on and as people started becoming famous. 0:06:56.880 --> 0:07:00.280 You know, uh, they've hit the road. We never see 0:07:00.320 --> 0:07:03.320 each other. And Los Angeles says, you know, is a 0:07:03.440 --> 0:07:07.520 much more you know, geographically spread out kind of scene. 0:07:07.800 --> 0:07:11.080 So the little pockets of living up in the Hollywood Hills, 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.080 you know, Laurel Canyon, great example, gets used a lot better, 0:07:15.200 --> 0:07:18.560 was a real deal. Um, that kind of change and 0:07:18.640 --> 0:07:20.920 people started moving out to the valley or to the 0:07:20.920 --> 0:07:24.720 beach or whatever, or they're just on a Jettera tour 0:07:24.800 --> 0:07:32.680 bus somewhere. When I moved to Nashville in immediately it 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:37.160 was like, holy cow, this community thing really reminds me 0:07:37.520 --> 0:07:39.960 of what it was like in l A in the 0:07:40.040 --> 0:07:43.760 late sixties and early seventies. Um so, and I love 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:47.080 that and I still I still believe that that exists 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:50.600 to a large degree. You know, Okay, let's go back 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.040 to the record. So he decided to do Dylan, you 0:07:53.080 --> 0:07:55.640 had certain trucks cut, you were finishing times. They are 0:07:55.680 --> 0:07:58.440 a change, and did you have to do more recording? 0:07:58.600 --> 0:08:01.120 And how did you ultimately choose is what songs to do? 0:08:02.640 --> 0:08:06.120 The sonctuous is an interesting one. You know, his catalog 0:08:06.200 --> 0:08:10.120 has hundreds of songs in it, and they're all great. Uh. 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:14.280 The the sort of acid test for us was if 0:08:14.320 --> 0:08:17.520 we sounded good singing and playing them, you know, we started. 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.560 You know, there's so many of Dylan. So many of 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:25.280 Dylan's tunes to me sound great with an individual singing 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:29.480 them in terms of like cover land, um. And then 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:32.320 there are others that you know have maybe bigger, wider 0:08:32.559 --> 0:08:37.520 chorus is more anthemic. Uh so we we know, we 0:08:37.600 --> 0:08:39.920 just started breaking it down and we weren't you know, 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:42.960 we ended up with a period that really kind of 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:45.800 starts in the sixties and ends in like the mid 0:08:45.920 --> 0:08:51.120 late seventies in his catalog. That wasn't by design. Those 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.360 were just the tunes that landed the best with us. 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.200 So we got in with you know, we got we 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.280 started with about eighties songs and by the time we 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.400 got to the studio, we whittled it down to about 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:05.360 thirty or forty. Then we started playing them and the 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:10.000 stuff again that that really you know, stuck to the 0:09:10.040 --> 0:09:15.040 wall were the ones we stayed with. And so what 0:09:15.160 --> 0:09:18.640 are some of your favorites on the album? Oh? Man, 0:09:18.720 --> 0:09:23.680 my favorites. I mean it's really I love the times 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:26.160 they're changing. I gotta start with that. I mean that 0:09:26.160 --> 0:09:30.240 that came out so great, and I love I love 0:09:30.320 --> 0:09:35.080 the generational and and just you know that the just 0:09:35.400 --> 0:09:38.439 you know, different voices coming from different different rooms and 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.480 it was just, I don't know, kill me. I'm very 0:09:41.520 --> 0:09:45.480 fond of that. Uh. I shall be released with our 0:09:45.520 --> 0:09:50.600 friends Larkin Poe, Rebecca and Megan Level. Those sisters are 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:53.679 just they're incredible and they came in and sang and 0:09:53.760 --> 0:09:57.920 make and Megan also played lap steel guitar. Beautiful Job 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.160 Girl from the North Country, which features actually my son Jamie, 0:10:03.320 --> 0:10:06.720 who's been in the band for you know, we got 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:10.439 the last year, but he started playing with us in Uh. 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.520 He sang lead on that, so you know, the father 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.080 son thing is deep. You know, we got the blood 0:10:16.080 --> 0:10:19.960 harmony going. And I love that track. Ross Holmes, our 0:10:20.040 --> 0:10:24.840 field player and Bob Carpenter, uh, who played accordion on 0:10:24.920 --> 0:10:32.880 that track, just created this kind of Celtic cinematic landscape. Uh. 0:10:33.559 --> 0:10:36.080 And I just I just love it for that reason. 0:10:36.160 --> 0:10:38.920 And plus it's a great song. I love the tune 0:10:38.960 --> 0:10:42.720 Country Pie, which is when I was surprised you did that, 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:46.000 because you know, nothing's really obscure, but that's not something 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:48.319 that comes to mind of the average person. No, it 0:10:48.400 --> 0:10:51.360 does not. And but actually Bob Carpenter brought that up. 0:10:51.440 --> 0:10:55.199 You know, I remembered it in passing from Nashville Skyline. 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:57.480 But it was one of those tunes like Randy Day 0:10:57.480 --> 0:10:59.920 Women twelve and thirty five where they're just having a blast. 0:11:00.600 --> 0:11:02.280 And he said, well, you know, if what if we 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:05.200 cut it, I don't know try to harken back to 0:11:05.240 --> 0:11:09.280 the jug band days, which totally landed well with me 0:11:09.320 --> 0:11:11.360 and Jimmy because we were the jug Me and Fat 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:14.280 and we were the drug band guys. And we ended 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:16.960 up recording it live in the studio. We sat around 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.600 one microphone and kind of moved in for our solos, 0:11:19.640 --> 0:11:23.160 and it just was so much fun. It was. It 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.079 was really cool and I love it because it does 0:11:26.160 --> 0:11:28.520 it sounds like jug band music with a little gypsy 0:11:28.679 --> 0:11:32.640 jazz thrown in on the fiddle, the violin um, and 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:37.679 it's just it's a Dylan rob you know. He has 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:41.120 a great sense of humor, clearly, that's for sure. So 0:11:41.520 --> 0:11:44.560 the album is done, how do you get a label involved? 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.760 That was? This is beyond, This is behind the scenes. 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:51.640 This is where guys like our manager, Brian Panics, and 0:11:51.760 --> 0:11:54.439 our other manager. We've got three of them, Jason Hanky, 0:11:54.480 --> 0:11:57.760 who's great, and Ken Levitan, who is that you know, 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:01.480 the head honcho over there at Victor Management. They put 0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:03.560 their heads together and they sent around, They sent some 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.920 tunes around. We had a little amount a handful of 0:12:06.960 --> 0:12:10.280 stuff that we had finished up, and uh, we ended 0:12:10.360 --> 0:12:12.839 up with these folks up in New York called m 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:15.640 R I, which is interesting. We all went m A right, 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:19.079 that's perfect for a bunch of old Now is that 0:12:19.240 --> 0:12:23.160 the m R I that's part of Megaphors? It is yep. Well, 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.960 Megaphord has got a long history of show of hard 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:30.000 rock stuff. I know, they did put out Sammy Kershaw Records, etcetera. 0:12:30.600 --> 0:12:33.880 So so you make a deal with the m R I. 0:12:34.600 --> 0:12:37.960 Needless to say, the landscape is completely different. There are 0:12:37.960 --> 0:12:44.199 so many people playing. What are your expectations. Well, first off, 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:46.880 it's a partnership with our little imprint which is m 0:12:46.920 --> 0:12:50.559 g dB Records. Um, we just you know, the fact 0:12:50.559 --> 0:12:53.320 that they love the record really helped, you know, and 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.880 they want they pointed up Pony depth with some you 0:12:55.920 --> 0:13:00.679 know promotion money and publicity money that really helped you know. Uh, 0:13:00.720 --> 0:13:05.160 and they have a great distribution, uh team, So we're 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.640 really happy to be over there. It's funny my son Jamie, 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:10.720 who's like, you know, he and Ross Holmes are the 0:13:11.040 --> 0:13:14.880 kids in our band. Um relative to all of us 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:18.520 especially they're uh, you know, Jamie is like m R. 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.839 I love that, you know, because they did the early 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:25.520 Metallica records, if I believe think you know, and it's 0:13:25.600 --> 0:13:30.880 like this is so cool Dad, So yeah, I love that. 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.680 But they you know, they've they've done a bunch of stuff. 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:35.720 They I think they got there. You know, they got 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.559 their toes in the jam band world as well, and 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:41.319 all of it made sense. That's like, as you know, 0:13:41.480 --> 0:13:44.040 anything goes in the world we live in. As far 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:47.600 as records, now, we've done it up and down every 0:13:47.600 --> 0:13:50.600 which away, you know. So but it's it's just fun 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.920 to be putting out a record. Okay, let's go back 0:13:53.960 --> 0:13:57.920 to the beginning. So you're born in Detroit, you end 0:13:58.000 --> 0:14:02.199 up in Long Beach filling those details, Well, my dad 0:14:02.640 --> 0:14:04.280 when I was eight years old, my dad was in 0:14:04.600 --> 0:14:07.320 he started in the building car he was you know 0:14:07.360 --> 0:14:11.280 that dad was several generations of Detroit guys. So he 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:15.240 was in a car business building them. Actually he was 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:19.480 an engineer and he was also an aeronautical engineer, so 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:21.760 he was like, you know, knew how to build an 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:26.880 airplane basically. So he got into the aircraft business. And 0:14:26.960 --> 0:14:29.680 we moved to Phoenix in nineteen fifty when I was 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.320 eight years old and fifty five, and that was a 0:14:32.400 --> 0:14:35.800 great place to grow up. I mean it was you know, 0:14:35.880 --> 0:14:39.640 we were all like, you know, all the cowboys in 0:14:39.680 --> 0:14:43.440 the movies and TV, and like there's all this desert 0:14:43.760 --> 0:14:50.360 and sawaro cacti and cactuses and it was it was 0:14:50.520 --> 0:14:53.240 really fun and you know, but it was kind of 0:14:53.280 --> 0:14:55.120 like that period of my life was kind of like 0:14:55.160 --> 0:14:57.920 being an army brat because but then my dad got 0:14:57.920 --> 0:15:02.200 a job offer about six years later in uh In, Colorado, 0:15:02.280 --> 0:15:06.840 So we moved to Littleton, Colorado, and uh he worked 0:15:06.840 --> 0:15:10.360 for Martin Marietta back then, and then a couple of 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:14.000 years later he got offered a job with North American 0:15:14.040 --> 0:15:20.960 Aircraft in uh. I believe they were based out of Downy, Um, California, 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:24.520 so home of the carpenters. And that's right exactly. And 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:26.680 I got some carpenter stories, but you don't need him. 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:31.160 Uh great folks, Uh, but he uh yes, So we 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.600 moved up. We picked up and left Colorado and moved 0:15:33.600 --> 0:15:38.400 to kind of inland because I love the beach. But 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:41.320 we you know, the first morning I woke up in 0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:45.080 Downy it was like, oh man, look at that fog, 0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:47.840 look at that concrete. Where's the beach, where's the trees? 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.960 Because I just left Colorado, by the way, so I 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.480 was a little bummed out. Then we moved across town. 0:15:53.480 --> 0:15:55.200 We were renting a house when we moved across town 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:59.400 to North Long Beach, and uh, I went to Jordan 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:04.000 High School, North Long Beach, California. Okay, filling in some details. 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.360 How many kids in the family. I had three brothers. Yeah, 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:10.120 well I had two more brothers. Sorry, And where were 0:16:10.160 --> 0:16:14.200 you in the hierarchy? I was a middle kid, Okay. 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:17.840 With all that traveling, you know, either you end up 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:21.120 isolated as a kid, or you feel that you you 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:25.440 get the skill to fit in. And did you get 0:16:25.480 --> 0:16:30.440 that skill? Did that help you ultimately in the music world? Well, 0:16:30.480 --> 0:16:33.600 you know, first day of any new school for any 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:38.800 kid anywhere, I don't, you know, regardless of their social 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:43.600 skill set, it's tough, you know. Uh, But I think 0:16:43.840 --> 0:16:46.920 I think the first day that I went to Jordan's 0:16:47.160 --> 0:16:50.560 I met this kid named Bruce Kunkle, who ended up 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:52.880 being one of the founding members of the Dirt Band, 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:58.960 and we hit it off. In North Jordan High was 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:02.920 kind of sounds like a movie. I mean, it's it's 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:05.600 like Rebel without a cause. I think I think of 0:17:05.680 --> 0:17:08.560 the I can't remember what was this lad? Was a 0:17:08.680 --> 0:17:11.520 Jim Stark? Was that the name of the James Dean character. 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.439 I think it was. I want to say, I don't remember, yeah, 0:17:15.520 --> 0:17:19.480 you know, and sorry, i'd look it up, but you know, anyways, 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.080 but I remember James Dean's character just come into that 0:17:23.200 --> 0:17:26.359 new school, you know, and he's the outsider, and you 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.840 got kind of the you know, we'd call him the socias. 0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:33.919 You know that the absolutely remember that you got. Okay, 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:37.199 now we're speaking the same language, Bob, the socials and 0:17:37.240 --> 0:17:42.000 the greasers. And also throw in the surfers also, so 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:44.960 even though I'd never surfed, I became one. I became 0:17:45.000 --> 0:17:47.520 a surfer, you know U And Bruce was one of 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.120 those kids. So we bonded. We started talking. It's like, hey, man, 0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:52.800 you got a guitar, and yeah, I got a guitar. 0:17:52.840 --> 0:17:54.159 I don't really know how to play it. This is 0:17:54.200 --> 0:17:55.800 me talking to Bruce and he said, well I do. 0:17:56.640 --> 0:18:01.159 So we were like also folkies. We love acoustic music. 0:18:01.280 --> 0:18:04.199 So he showed me some chords and he showed me 0:18:04.320 --> 0:18:07.399 where the chords went to, what part of a song, 0:18:07.720 --> 0:18:10.679 and it was like the clouds parted. Man, it was 0:18:10.800 --> 0:18:14.000 such a it was a huge moment for me. It 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:17.719 was an epiphany. And we you know, we became great pals. 0:18:17.840 --> 0:18:22.680 Right then give us a year. This is nineteen sixty. 0:18:24.560 --> 0:18:28.280 I think it started in the fall of sixty one, Okay, 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.760 and this is when the folk boom is really starting 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:36.560 to rage. Oh yeah, ultimately hooting Nanny on TV, etcetera. Okay, 0:18:36.640 --> 0:18:39.879 so you start playing guitars with Bruce tell us the 0:18:39.920 --> 0:18:42.879 next step in your musical evolution. We were like and 0:18:43.000 --> 0:18:45.600 we were in the musical evolution. It was it was 0:18:45.640 --> 0:18:47.359 kind of sample. I can't remember. Also, I had an 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:51.159 older brother, my brother Mike, and he would bring he 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.160 brought home at Kingston Trio Record and he brought home 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:57.440 he might have done that while we're still living in Littleton, Colorado, 0:18:57.760 --> 0:19:02.040 kingson Tira Trio record, Uh, Peter, Paul and Mary. I 0:19:02.359 --> 0:19:06.000 loved both of those groups. I mean they were then. 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:10.200 Joan Bayaz and Joan Bayez was like my gateway drug 0:19:10.440 --> 0:19:15.680 because she was on Vanguard Records, and Vanguard Records always 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:19.760 advertised their other artists and their other releases on the 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:24.040 inner sleeve of the vinyl. So number one is I 0:19:24.160 --> 0:19:27.600 love Jones voice, still love her voice. But she recorded 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.880 with a band called the Green Bar Boys, a great 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:34.360 bluegrass band. UH appeared on several several tracks on her records, 0:19:34.720 --> 0:19:37.080 and that was like, man, I liked that music. That's 0:19:37.119 --> 0:19:40.000 kind of cool. I've never really heard blue grass, so 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:42.080 she got me into that. But then I started looking 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.919 at these pictures and there's this guy Doc Watson on 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.480 the back of the record. Yeah, and there's Mississippi John 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:51.120 Hurt on the back of the record. And I'm like, oh, 0:19:51.200 --> 0:19:54.600 both this is interesting, Claire, I think Clarence. Actually, I'm 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.200 trying to remember. There was another label called folk Ways, 0:19:57.280 --> 0:20:01.560 which was another huge deal for us as folk puppies, 0:20:01.640 --> 0:20:06.600 you know. Uh. That created kind of a deeper dive. 0:20:07.280 --> 0:20:09.320 And then also Bruce and I weren't afraid to like 0:20:09.359 --> 0:20:11.640 hit we neither of us had a driver's license at 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:15.320 this point, like fifteen. We weren't afraid like hitchhike down 0:20:15.400 --> 0:20:18.359 to the Golden Bear in Huntington Beach was which was 0:20:18.400 --> 0:20:22.720 a huge club in the sort of fledgling folk rock 0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:27.479 and uh folk music, uh circuit, so we could see folks, 0:20:27.600 --> 0:20:29.359 you know, or go all the way up to l 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:31.840 A and go to the Ash Grove, which was really 0:20:31.840 --> 0:20:34.879 our hang as well. This is you can see people 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.919 like I got to sit ten ft away from Mississippi 0:20:38.000 --> 0:20:40.320 John Hurt, you know, and watch that guy play when 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:44.800 I was sixteen, uh, and that was life changing for me. 0:20:45.000 --> 0:20:47.920 Same deal with Doc Watson, same deal with Bill Monroe, 0:20:48.000 --> 0:20:51.680 the New Law City Ramblers, you know down in long 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.480 A lot of those folks, oh Man, Sunny Terry and 0:20:54.480 --> 0:20:58.199 Brownie McGhee two of my absolute favorites. A lot of 0:20:58.200 --> 0:21:00.639 those folks would you know, play the ash Grove and 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:03.040 getting the car and drive down to Huntington's Beach and 0:21:03.080 --> 0:21:05.320 play the Golden Bear as well. So you can see 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:07.840 him twice in the course of two or three weeks. 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:13.960 Lightning Hopkins, Merle Travis, it was it was man kid 0:21:13.960 --> 0:21:17.040 in the candy store, and the irony was I mean, 0:21:17.080 --> 0:21:19.520 I shouldn't say the irony, but that the interesting thing 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.480 for me as a kid, how fortunate we were, as 0:21:23.560 --> 0:21:28.679 these surfer kids from l A getting to hear, getting 0:21:28.680 --> 0:21:32.600 to have this experience that we didn't grow up in 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:37.520 Kentucky or in the Mississippi Delta or in the you know, 0:21:37.560 --> 0:21:42.360 the hills in North Carolina and have those back porch experiences. 0:21:42.560 --> 0:21:45.880 And yet there we were getting to see our heroes 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:56.080 up close. It was really great. Okay, so you're immersed 0:21:56.119 --> 0:21:59.800 in the Sceme tell me more about your particular playing 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:04.280 and the Mason element of your career. Well, you know, 0:22:04.400 --> 0:22:09.080 we at the tail end of my high school. Uh, 0:22:09.160 --> 0:22:10.919 when I was a senior in high school, me and 0:22:10.960 --> 0:22:13.600 my buddy Bruce in another couple of pals of mine 0:22:14.280 --> 0:22:17.200 start had a jug band called the Illegitimate Jug Band 0:22:17.440 --> 0:22:20.879 because we thought that was a cute name. Plus we 0:22:20.920 --> 0:22:25.479 didn't have a joke. So okay. But for those of 0:22:25.600 --> 0:22:29.560 us who were around back then, jug bands were a thing. 0:22:29.600 --> 0:22:31.200 Of course on the East Coast you had the gym 0:22:31.280 --> 0:22:36.440 Queskin jug Band and School Loving School Queskin was like 0:22:36.520 --> 0:22:40.800 the Beatles. Okay, So explain for people who missed that 0:22:40.840 --> 0:22:46.520 scene what a jug band was. Well, you know, musically, 0:22:47.320 --> 0:22:52.040 you take a lot of the mountaineer roots, country blues 0:22:52.400 --> 0:22:56.520 I'm talking about acoustic blues and ragtime music, and you 0:22:56.600 --> 0:22:59.679 throw them all into a cattle kettle, you know, and 0:22:59.720 --> 0:23:03.440 you at this gumbo. Uh. That's what jug band music 0:23:03.440 --> 0:23:06.240 list us. And it was again the question jug band 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:11.080 were like they were so their imaginations were broad and wide, 0:23:11.160 --> 0:23:14.840 and their talent was deep. I mean questing himself, great 0:23:14.840 --> 0:23:21.719 guitar player, singer, Uh, Jeffrey Mulder, his future wife Maria 0:23:22.119 --> 0:23:24.600 Dematto I believe her name was when she before they 0:23:24.640 --> 0:23:28.960 got married yet Maria Mulder, Oh my gosh, Fritz Frisch, Richmond, 0:23:29.000 --> 0:23:32.160 the guy that played upright, I mean sorry Washtub Base 0:23:32.240 --> 0:23:36.840 and jugg Gregor jug player, uh mel Lyman on harmonica. 0:23:37.200 --> 0:23:40.560 I mean, they were they were so good, just killed us. 0:23:40.720 --> 0:23:43.040 So we learned a bunch of their tunes right away. 0:23:43.520 --> 0:23:46.520 And then the Love and Spoonful came along, you know, 0:23:46.600 --> 0:23:49.280 and there here here, these guys were writing their own 0:23:49.400 --> 0:23:53.280 music and kind of you know, I mean, to me, 0:23:53.400 --> 0:23:56.000 the two bands that I love the best in the 0:23:56.040 --> 0:23:59.480 mid sixties American bands were the Birds on the West 0:23:59.520 --> 0:24:03.000 Coast in the Spoonful on the East coast. They brought 0:24:03.040 --> 0:24:05.960 it off from me and again me and Kunkle, you know, 0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:10.320 we stuck out our thumbs and hitchhicked up to Hollywood 0:24:10.440 --> 0:24:13.520 to see both the Birds and the Spoonful play at 0:24:13.560 --> 0:24:17.320 this club called The Trip. That was an amazing experience 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:20.119 as well. You know, here's these kids, you know. A 0:24:20.240 --> 0:24:22.520 year later, the Dirt Band were opening at the Golden 0:24:22.560 --> 0:24:27.720 Bear for the Love of Spoonful, which is pretty cool, okay, 0:24:27.840 --> 0:24:30.919 but you u you get together with two friends and 0:24:31.000 --> 0:24:34.800 you form a band under what the impossible drug being, 0:24:34.880 --> 0:24:37.480 if I remember correctly, and take it up from there 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:40.879 as the old legitimate jug band. But then, you know, 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:43.040 and a couple of months later, I'm going to college, 0:24:43.080 --> 0:24:48.000 which was really brief Long Beach Community Community College, which 0:24:48.040 --> 0:24:50.720 we call a long was Long Beach City College. We 0:24:50.760 --> 0:24:53.359 all call it Long Beach Shitty College because you know 0:24:53.359 --> 0:24:58.280 it made sense. Uh. And first semester, you know, I 0:24:58.320 --> 0:25:02.679 spent more time sitting on the common with my acoustic guitar, 0:25:02.880 --> 0:25:07.240 hanging out with these folks that are really just meeting there. 0:25:07.240 --> 0:25:10.960 You know. Uh, it was so you know, it was 0:25:11.000 --> 0:25:14.720 like a snapshot of of young folkies sitting on the 0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:18.959 lawn ditching school. And I met this guy named Ralph 0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:21.440 Barr And I met a kid named Les Thompson. I 0:25:21.520 --> 0:25:24.480 met a kid named Jimmy Fadden Bruce Kunkle. By the way, 0:25:24.480 --> 0:25:27.160 it was going to another school because he got better 0:25:27.200 --> 0:25:30.080 grades than me. He went to Long Beach State College. Um, 0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:37.760 and uh, so here's Bruce Bruce across town. But Ralph 0:25:37.800 --> 0:25:41.560 and Les and Jimmy and I'm leaving somebody out jeus h, 0:25:42.520 --> 0:25:46.920 it'll come to me. Uh anyway, so we're sitting around 0:25:46.920 --> 0:25:49.080 and we're talking about where do you guys hang out. Well, 0:25:49.080 --> 0:25:52.720 there's this guitar store in Lung Beach called McCabe's, and 0:25:52.720 --> 0:25:54.480 there were two of them, the famous one that you're 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:56.880 you know, which is of the San Monica But yeah, 0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:58.639 and there were there were two. At one point there 0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:00.760 were three of them. There was one that was in 0:26:00.800 --> 0:26:02.680 the Ash Grove and I think they lived they lived 0:26:02.680 --> 0:26:04.560 in the True Bodover for a little while, and the 0:26:04.600 --> 0:26:07.880 one that's been in Santa Monica forever. And there's Long 0:26:07.920 --> 0:26:11.399 Beach McCabe. So we started hanging out after school or 0:26:11.480 --> 0:26:15.159 ditching school and hanging out at McCabe's. And you know, 0:26:15.400 --> 0:26:18.399 they were the guys. The proprietors were really kind to 0:26:18.480 --> 0:26:20.760 us and let us drink their coffee and sit around 0:26:20.760 --> 0:26:23.320 and pull guitars off the wall, and we all learned 0:26:23.359 --> 0:26:27.840 a few skills as guitar repairman as well. So we're 0:26:27.880 --> 0:26:30.040 sitting around and we're going, well, we got a bunch 0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:33.240 of guys, why don't we have a band? Why not 0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:36.080 start a band? Was like, well, none of us really 0:26:36.119 --> 0:26:38.920 wanted to dive into like allectric guitars based and drums. 0:26:39.000 --> 0:26:42.840 We love the Beatles like everybody, but you know, we 0:26:42.840 --> 0:26:47.920 we were that was we were really acoustic snobs. So well, 0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:49.760 and I said, hey, how about a joke band? You 0:26:49.760 --> 0:26:51.680 guys ever played jug band music? And then yeah, we 0:26:51.760 --> 0:26:54.520 like question. I said, Ah, so fun, it's really great. 0:26:54.640 --> 0:26:57.560 I'll call my buddy Bruce up. So me and Bruce 0:26:57.600 --> 0:27:02.960 and Less and Jimmy and rap uh got together and 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:06.360 you know, oh and eventually this guy, Jackson Brown joined 0:27:06.400 --> 0:27:08.840 the band. I should point out that was the sixth guy. 0:27:09.520 --> 0:27:14.640 Uh we uh so we just went to my mom's 0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:19.040 garage and started, uh you know, practicing for nothing. By 0:27:19.040 --> 0:27:21.879 the way, because we weren't playing any gigs. There's a 0:27:21.880 --> 0:27:26.240 little club in southern California called the Paradox, which if 0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:29.440 you know the song the Barricades of Heaven Jackson song 0:27:29.800 --> 0:27:33.159 he name checks it, and a bunch of us you 0:27:33.200 --> 0:27:35.399 know kids hung out in that club. Is a really 0:27:35.440 --> 0:27:38.359 tiny place, but they had a talent contest going on. 0:27:38.680 --> 0:27:41.960 So the jug Our jug Band, which we a long 0:27:42.040 --> 0:27:44.359 story about the name, but if you want to hear it, 0:27:44.400 --> 0:27:46.760 I'll tell you in a minute. We jumped up there 0:27:46.760 --> 0:27:48.959 and kind of made up a name and jumped up 0:27:48.960 --> 0:27:51.520 and started playing these talent contests, and when they kept 0:27:51.600 --> 0:27:55.320 carrying us over a week, one week two, you know, Uh, 0:27:55.480 --> 0:27:58.640 there was no one number, by the way, it was 0:28:00.119 --> 0:28:05.360 it was yeah, anyways, it wasn't the voice. Um, well 0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:08.280 what just because I can't remember where was the paradox. 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:12.800 The paradox was in the city of Orange, California, right 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:17.240 next to Tustin, California. So uh, as we jokingly said, 0:28:17.280 --> 0:28:21.399 it was behind the Orange Curtain, right of course, you know. 0:28:21.800 --> 0:28:25.000 So we were hanging out there and and uh there 0:28:25.080 --> 0:28:27.200 was a guy that met named Steve Noonan that hung 0:28:27.200 --> 0:28:30.520 out there who was among the first guys I knew 0:28:30.640 --> 0:28:35.320 that actually wrote his own songs, Uh Jackson who I 0:28:35.680 --> 0:28:39.520 met Jackson when he was fifteen years old. I was sixteen. Um. 0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:43.760 And uh, the guy Greg Copeland, who was a great 0:28:43.800 --> 0:28:47.400 poet and it was a fine lyricist, and he, you know, 0:28:47.520 --> 0:28:50.560 has shown up on a lot of Steve's Steve Steve 0:28:50.720 --> 0:28:55.400 uh sorry Noonan's records. Uh and I Jack Jackson and 0:28:55.400 --> 0:28:58.000 he wrote them together as well. And Tim Buckley, the 0:28:58.040 --> 0:29:01.520 great Tim Buckley. Those guys are hanging out and there's 0:29:01.800 --> 0:29:07.120 you know, Mary McCaslin and Jennifer Warrens and uh a 0:29:07.200 --> 0:29:10.000 lot of cool acts came and played there. It was. 0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:12.200 It was a good comedy room too. You see, people 0:29:12.240 --> 0:29:15.840 like Pat Paulson, this kid named Steve Martin showed up 0:29:15.840 --> 0:29:19.360 there once in a while. But uh uh so we 0:29:19.480 --> 0:29:21.760 kind of, you know, that's kind of where we honed 0:29:21.760 --> 0:29:24.840 our skills. Was was the paradox. It is also the 0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:27.800 first place that they actually paid us to play, which 0:29:28.120 --> 0:29:33.560 which was May nineteen sixty six. Okay, at this point, 0:29:33.640 --> 0:29:35.920 is it the nitty Gwitty Dirt Band? Yeah, it is, 0:29:36.120 --> 0:29:39.200 it is, So tell us the story of the name. Well, 0:29:39.280 --> 0:29:41.320 you know, we're sitting around trying to come up with 0:29:41.320 --> 0:29:43.880 a name that didn't sound like everybody else's, you know, 0:29:43.920 --> 0:29:48.000 I mean, you know, the Grateful Dead, We're Mother Something's 0:29:48.200 --> 0:29:52.200 mother and Warlocks whatnot. But before the Warlocks there there 0:29:52.320 --> 0:29:56.280 was a jug band name too. There there's something yeah 0:29:56.320 --> 0:30:00.560 I can't either, but it's there on the Google or 0:30:00.560 --> 0:30:04.560 the wiki. Yeah, you know, and the jug band thing 0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:08.400 was it was a deal. Um, so we didn't want 0:30:08.440 --> 0:30:10.800 to call ourselves a jug band. That maybe that carried 0:30:10.880 --> 0:30:13.440 over from illegitimate, but it was like one of the 0:30:13.480 --> 0:30:15.360 guys the thing was Ralph Barr said, how about the 0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:19.120 dirt band, because dirt really made sense to us. You know. 0:30:19.680 --> 0:30:23.640 We all had these dusty cowboy boots and uh, it 0:30:23.880 --> 0:30:28.360 just kind of, I don't know, it's like depression era tunes. 0:30:28.920 --> 0:30:32.400 You're seeing these the sort of Woody Guthrie era black 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:35.160 and white photos in your head, and a lot of 0:30:35.200 --> 0:30:38.840 that music came up from that era, the thirties. So 0:30:39.280 --> 0:30:41.160 that was great. So we're the dirt band for about 0:30:41.160 --> 0:30:45.080 a week once again in my mom's garage. Um, and 0:30:45.120 --> 0:30:48.680 I was going the tail end of my college career. 0:30:48.880 --> 0:30:52.800 I was in a political science class and my professor 0:30:52.920 --> 0:30:55.840 said something about let's just get right down to the 0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:58.720 real nitty gritty, and I'm like, I don't. I didn't 0:30:58.720 --> 0:31:02.200 hear another word he said. And I came into the 0:31:02.200 --> 0:31:04.880 next rehearsal I went, I got it, you know, because 0:31:04.920 --> 0:31:07.120 the nitty gritty just sounded like the sound of a 0:31:07.200 --> 0:31:09.880 washboard to me. Plus they had this great sort of 0:31:10.640 --> 0:31:13.080 getting right down to it, you know, and in terms 0:31:13.120 --> 0:31:16.160 of nitty gritty, dirt band kind of worked. I can't 0:31:16.200 --> 0:31:21.560 say it real fast or after midnight, you know, but it's, uh, 0:31:21.640 --> 0:31:24.480 it's stuck. So there you go, Naty goody dirt band. 0:31:24.520 --> 0:31:26.960 Love it or hate it there it is okay, so 0:31:27.000 --> 0:31:32.520 you're getting paid at the paradox. What's the next step. Well, um, 0:31:32.600 --> 0:31:34.320 we had a couple of different guys that were this 0:31:34.400 --> 0:31:37.240 started sniffing around to be managers. There was a guy 0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:41.200 named Billy James that was Jackson Brown's friend. Who was 0:31:41.360 --> 0:31:44.040 you know Billy's I think he probably have heard of Billy. 0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:48.360 Billy was in an our man at Columbia Records, and 0:31:49.240 --> 0:31:51.800 he he has some ends in the record biz and 0:31:51.840 --> 0:31:54.440 he was starting to manage folks. I think he was 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:58.480 kind of managing Jackson on the side. And then, uh, 0:31:58.640 --> 0:32:02.920 Jackson was out to leave the band and this mutual 0:32:02.920 --> 0:32:06.640 friend of all of ours, John McEwen, uh, started playing 0:32:06.680 --> 0:32:10.200 with us. And John's brother was a fleet Bill McEwen 0:32:10.360 --> 0:32:13.480 was a fledgling manager at that point. He had a 0:32:13.520 --> 0:32:15.320 couple of acts, a couple of folk acts he was 0:32:15.360 --> 0:32:18.360 working with. You know, he hadn't really busted into the 0:32:18.360 --> 0:32:21.960 big time, but he he was enthusiastic, a really hard 0:32:22.000 --> 0:32:27.320 working guy. So we went with Bill um and he uh, 0:32:27.480 --> 0:32:29.760 you know, we made a little demo at gold Star 0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:34.200 Studios up in Hollywood, I know, right, and uh, we 0:32:34.240 --> 0:32:37.040 started going around. We would actually remember we went to 0:32:37.280 --> 0:32:40.280 Capitol Records in I think the guy's name was al 0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:44.080 Do Lory, who's an a and our guy. Uh, we 0:32:44.120 --> 0:32:45.959 did a little demo for them, a little kind of 0:32:45.960 --> 0:32:51.600 audition in the studio. The Dirt Band were really popular 0:32:51.640 --> 0:32:54.120 at this point, I mean in southern California, lines around 0:32:54.120 --> 0:32:57.360 the block. We're doing three sets to night Fridays and 0:32:57.400 --> 0:33:00.320 Saturdays at the Paradox. Then we started playing down at 0:33:00.320 --> 0:33:03.040 the Golden Bear song. We had not yet made it 0:33:03.120 --> 0:33:06.480 up to Hollywood. But and what what was the material? 0:33:06.560 --> 0:33:09.160 Originals were covers, Oh, it is all covers we wrote. 0:33:09.160 --> 0:33:11.680 We wrote a couple of kind of jug bandison. Well, 0:33:12.240 --> 0:33:15.360 this guy, the former member of our band, Jackson Brown, 0:33:15.960 --> 0:33:18.240 has some great He wrote a song called Melissa that 0:33:18.360 --> 0:33:21.400 was a great jug band tune. He had another one 0:33:21.440 --> 0:33:24.280 called It's been Reigning here in Long Beach, great jug 0:33:24.320 --> 0:33:28.200 band tune. So we started cutting Jackson stuff, but not cutting, 0:33:28.240 --> 0:33:31.000 but learning because at this point we're not really recording. 0:33:32.320 --> 0:33:35.800 So the repertoire a lot of Jim Quest and stuff, 0:33:35.840 --> 0:33:37.760 a lot of you know, we got into some of 0:33:37.800 --> 0:33:42.360 the like original stuff like the Memphis Jug Band, and 0:33:42.760 --> 0:33:45.440 you know, we found a way to sort of uh, 0:33:46.280 --> 0:33:49.040 you know, assimilate some sort of you know, skiffle band 0:33:49.120 --> 0:33:52.120 songs and string band songs from the twenties and thirties 0:33:52.440 --> 0:33:55.320 and incorporate them into our style now with John McEwan 0:33:55.400 --> 0:33:57.600 on the five string banjo. We even did a couple 0:33:57.680 --> 0:34:00.480 of bluegrass members but with a wash board in the 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:04.160 Washington base as a rhythm section. So these kids, again, 0:34:04.280 --> 0:34:07.240 the kids are really god man. We got when Jackson 0:34:07.320 --> 0:34:10.799 was still in the band, our friend and Moses who 0:34:10.840 --> 0:34:14.680 was the editor at Tiger Beat magazine, which was Tiger 0:34:14.719 --> 0:34:19.880 Beat was there was no Rolling Stone. So I remember, right, 0:34:20.360 --> 0:34:23.440 my mom cut out this couple of pages from Tiger 0:34:23.480 --> 0:34:25.920 Beat because there's a picture of us with Jackson and 0:34:26.000 --> 0:34:28.839 the band, and they're writing about the doors as well, 0:34:28.880 --> 0:34:31.120 and they're writing about the Buffalo sprankfields, just to give 0:34:31.120 --> 0:34:35.680 you context. All there were we're team magazines and sing 0:34:35.680 --> 0:34:38.400 Out magazine for the folkies of course, you know. But 0:34:38.719 --> 0:34:42.640 h so we're getting this, there's this like buzz about 0:34:42.640 --> 0:34:47.360 our band. So finally, after being courted by not a 0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:50.879 half a dozen record companies, we uh, we ended up 0:34:50.920 --> 0:34:55.960 at Liberty Records. Now Liberty was already part of them. 0:34:55.960 --> 0:35:00.279 My Capital are still independent with Simon Waronker. I think 0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:04.560 that they were I think it was Liberty Imperial. We're going, 0:35:04.640 --> 0:35:08.160 of course we are Imperial records. Fats Domino were like, 0:35:08.200 --> 0:35:12.040 I mean, we all had Liberty and Imperial Records in 0:35:12.120 --> 0:35:15.920 our collections as kids, so we're pretty impressed, you know. 0:35:16.000 --> 0:35:18.520 So they signed us. The first thing they did welcome 0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:21.520 to the music business, was you guys are great, Let's 0:35:21.600 --> 0:35:28.600 change everything. So the one one of the things that 0:35:28.600 --> 0:35:31.120 that we got with a producer named Dallas Smith more 0:35:31.160 --> 0:35:35.719 on Dallas in a minute. But they wanted us. They 0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:38.680 didn't like they didn't think no anybody would buy the 0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:41.279 jug band music. And we're going, wait a minute, have 0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:44.040 you heard the Love and Spoonful? And they're yeah, but 0:35:44.920 --> 0:35:50.279 they're they're electric. So how about some folk rock? You know, 0:35:50.400 --> 0:35:52.640 folk rock was a big deal. You had the Birds, 0:35:53.160 --> 0:35:55.440 and you had you know, and you had the Springfield 0:35:56.360 --> 0:35:59.640 and you had the Turtles at the Association doing a 0:35:59.680 --> 0:36:02.080 little of that as well. There's this this thing, right 0:36:02.640 --> 0:36:06.480 and we're like, okay, we can sing those songs, but 0:36:06.640 --> 0:36:09.120 we're a jug band. Can we do both? There? Like sure? 0:36:09.680 --> 0:36:11.759 So we went in the studio. First day we walked in. 0:36:11.800 --> 0:36:14.279 There's about a half a dozen session guys there. We're 0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:18.200 all freaking out going what you know, what what if 0:36:18.239 --> 0:36:21.919 we do? We're all still cocky teenagers, I might add. 0:36:22.560 --> 0:36:24.759 And and some of these session guys were amazing and 0:36:24.800 --> 0:36:27.239 we became friends over the years. These are guys like 0:36:27.320 --> 0:36:30.880 the Wrecking Crew. Those guys are there. It's amazing. And 0:36:30.960 --> 0:36:34.440 we met Leon Russell through that, we met our buddy 0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:39.680 what's his name, sorry, from Bred David Gates. David Gates. 0:36:39.920 --> 0:36:44.440 David Gates arranged this, arranged His first string arranging job 0:36:44.920 --> 0:36:47.239 was on Buy for Me the Rain, So we'll get 0:36:47.280 --> 0:36:49.080 to that in a in a second. So our first 0:36:49.120 --> 0:36:52.919 album totally schizophrenic half of his jug band, the other 0:36:52.960 --> 0:36:56.960 half is folk rock songs. Steve Noonan our buddy from 0:36:57.000 --> 0:37:02.080 the Paradox, Jackson Brown. Both of them attributed songs um 0:37:02.640 --> 0:37:04.600 and well. I think we actually did a couple of 0:37:05.000 --> 0:37:09.160 uh Bruce kunkle Uh. There was a song called song 0:37:09.280 --> 0:37:11.840 to Utah, who was his girlfriend who would become his 0:37:11.880 --> 0:37:14.759 first wife as well. We did that and it was 0:37:15.440 --> 0:37:17.080 it was fun. I mean, none of the music. I'm 0:37:17.120 --> 0:37:19.439 not embarrassed by any of the music, although we sound 0:37:19.520 --> 0:37:22.800 so like like we're ten when I hear it. I 0:37:22.880 --> 0:37:25.680 was saying, we are singing. So did they let you 0:37:25.760 --> 0:37:29.240 play on the album? Or we played on every track? 0:37:29.400 --> 0:37:31.160 We played on every track, but it would be like 0:37:31.200 --> 0:37:33.880 the six of us and a bass player and a drummer, 0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:36.920 and you know, we're wailing away and all of a sudden, 0:37:36.920 --> 0:37:39.200 it's like here play an electric twelve string Ralph or 0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:44.360 Buddy Ralph bar Um John played banjo. You know, we 0:37:44.640 --> 0:37:46.640 kind of process that he put a mute on it. 0:37:46.719 --> 0:37:49.600 That made it some a little different kind of I 0:37:49.600 --> 0:37:52.560 don't a little more psychedelic. So also there was that 0:37:52.680 --> 0:37:56.360 everything was psychedelic. So the Dirt Band, all of a sudden, 0:37:56.520 --> 0:38:00.319 that didn't hurt our popularity at all. The is that 0:38:00.400 --> 0:38:03.640 loved us for our jug band music loved by From 0:38:03.680 --> 0:38:07.640 Me the Rain as well. So our record was a 0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:10.360 top ten single up and down the West Coast and 0:38:10.520 --> 0:38:12.480 up and down the East Coast. I remember because he 0:38:12.640 --> 0:38:17.360 cousin Brucey Morraw, Bruce Morrow, you know, uh played our records. 0:38:17.400 --> 0:38:19.000 You know a lot of my friends that grew up 0:38:19.040 --> 0:38:21.400 on the East coast, like you heard by From Me 0:38:21.480 --> 0:38:24.000 the Rain on the radio or the West coast. There's 0:38:24.000 --> 0:38:27.400 another story. The record actually got banned, so that killed 0:38:27.440 --> 0:38:31.239 it at another if you want to hear the story, yeah, yeah, 0:38:32.480 --> 0:38:36.120 well uh. The B side of the song was a 0:38:36.160 --> 0:38:39.160 song called candy Man, which was written by the late 0:38:39.160 --> 0:38:43.400 great Reverend Gary Davis. In the In the song it 0:38:43.520 --> 0:38:46.000 said I'd do anything in this god almighty world to 0:38:46.040 --> 0:38:48.600 have my candy Man home. So set that aside for 0:38:48.640 --> 0:38:50.800 a second. Had nothing to do with Buy from Me 0:38:50.840 --> 0:38:54.239 the Rain. The A side, Uh, there's a guy that 0:38:55.600 --> 0:38:58.560 There was a program director somewhere in the either the 0:38:58.600 --> 0:39:02.520 southern US or the Midwest, the work for a station 0:39:02.560 --> 0:39:05.760 that was part of a big chain of stations owned 0:39:05.800 --> 0:39:08.520 by a guy, Mr McClendon. I believe his name was 0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:13.640 Gordon McClendon. Let's get this. Program director comes home one 0:39:13.760 --> 0:39:17.520 night and his daughters in her bedroom with her little, 0:39:17.640 --> 0:39:23.359 you know, miniature fort rpm record player, and through the 0:39:23.400 --> 0:39:28.040 door he sings these long haired British guys singing, let's 0:39:28.080 --> 0:39:31.520 spend the night together. You know, flings opened the door. 0:39:31.680 --> 0:39:36.359 What the you know? What? How? What who is this? 0:39:36.880 --> 0:39:40.080 You know? He comes into the station the next day, 0:39:40.600 --> 0:39:45.320 gets on the horn and it's like there's this terrible 0:39:45.400 --> 0:39:49.359 disease going through our you know, coming at us. From 0:39:49.400 --> 0:39:54.360 the airways. You know, these this horrible you know, breaking 0:39:54.440 --> 0:39:58.680 down the Moray's of America. The Rolling Stones were at 0:39:58.719 --> 0:40:02.080 the front of it. So he calls his boss, Mr. 0:40:02.160 --> 0:40:05.560 McClinton and says, we gotta do something about this. So 0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:11.600 they they banned Let's Spend the Night Together. They banned 0:40:11.640 --> 0:40:17.000 Strawberry Fields slash Penny Lane. They banned Devil with a 0:40:17.040 --> 0:40:20.000 Blue Dress by Mitch Rider in the Detroit Wheels, and 0:40:20.040 --> 0:40:23.680 they banned by from Me the Rain slash Candy Man 0:40:24.280 --> 0:40:27.400 by the Dirt Band because we were blaspheming saying we 0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:35.239 got almighty World, which you know, okay, and just well, 0:40:35.320 --> 0:40:38.560 Newsweek magazine and Time both wrote about it, and we 0:40:38.600 --> 0:40:42.960 thought pretty cool company Beatles Stones, Mitch Rider and us, 0:40:43.120 --> 0:40:46.479 you know. But unfortunately, in terms of the business side 0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:50.759 of things, the A side of the record didn't do 0:40:50.840 --> 0:40:53.759 it there, you know, it was an innocent victim here. 0:40:53.880 --> 0:40:56.120 So our record at that point, I think is around 0:40:57.040 --> 0:40:59.759 forty it's in the mid forties. With a bullet, we'll 0:40:59.760 --> 0:41:02.640 get ads were climbing the charts. Like I said, the 0:41:02.680 --> 0:41:07.400 popularity is growing from the coast inward. The next you know, 0:41:07.520 --> 0:41:11.920 forty five with a bullet one week with a parachute. 0:41:11.960 --> 0:41:15.640 The next week dropped like a rock, done Gone. So 0:41:15.920 --> 0:41:18.279 that was kind of depressing, but again, welcome to the 0:41:18.360 --> 0:41:22.439 music business. And as we know, here we go. This 0:41:22.480 --> 0:41:26.120 is how radio can work. And censorship. Okay, before we 0:41:26.200 --> 0:41:28.880 continue the story of the band, what did your parents 0:41:29.000 --> 0:41:33.120 say about you dropping out of community college and pursuing 0:41:33.160 --> 0:41:37.080 this career. They really they were incredibly supportive. And I 0:41:37.080 --> 0:41:40.239 should point out my dad was the fourth and four 0:41:40.280 --> 0:41:46.080 generations of West Point graduates, so whoa, whoa whoa. Okay, yeah, yeah, 0:41:46.320 --> 0:41:49.120 and also a peace nick I might add. My dad 0:41:49.280 --> 0:41:51.640 was you know, he went to World War two and 0:41:51.719 --> 0:41:55.440 came home with shell shock PTSD and A and A 0:41:55.640 --> 0:41:58.720 and a shirt full of metals, including a purple heart. 0:41:59.400 --> 0:42:03.160 But you know, when we got into Vietnam, he was like, 0:42:03.239 --> 0:42:05.279 I started talking about it right away. I was like, 0:42:05.360 --> 0:42:07.680 I don't want to go, you know, blah blah blah. 0:42:07.719 --> 0:42:10.359 So none of us did. How did you get out? 0:42:10.840 --> 0:42:14.080 I got because I flunked my physical uh you know, 0:42:14.719 --> 0:42:16.640 and like the rest of the guys in the band, 0:42:16.760 --> 0:42:19.719 we were lucky enough to to be able to get 0:42:19.760 --> 0:42:23.200 around it, you know, hooker Crook. We didn't want to go. 0:42:23.640 --> 0:42:25.759 I had friends that were two years older than me 0:42:25.800 --> 0:42:29.239 in high school that never came home, and I was 0:42:29.280 --> 0:42:33.080 like this, and then of course it wasn't World War two, 0:42:33.560 --> 0:42:35.600 it wasn't signed up here as like what is this 0:42:35.600 --> 0:42:42.520 war about? And that was just you know, unbelievable, you know, 0:42:42.719 --> 0:42:45.160 and that's a that's a you know, you're conflicted. We're 0:42:45.160 --> 0:42:48.640 all conflicted being from that generation about our buddies who 0:42:48.640 --> 0:42:52.600 went off there and fought in Vietnam and why we 0:42:52.600 --> 0:43:02.120 were so lucky to not have to go. Okay, So 0:43:02.160 --> 0:43:04.920 the first record is all of a sudden installed. What 0:43:05.040 --> 0:43:09.239 happens after that? Uh? First record installed? Then we did 0:43:09.280 --> 0:43:11.799 it that, We did a second record. The first river 0:43:12.000 --> 0:43:16.160 was eponymous, you know, dirt band on a sitting on 0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:20.800 a steam shovel, get it, dirt band um. The second 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:25.680 record was called Ricochet, kind of using the same formula again. 0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:30.160 We put out a single called Truly Right that was 0:43:30.239 --> 0:43:34.400 written by uh, this group called Maston and Brewer, and 0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:37.560 the brewer was Mike Brewer who came to fame later 0:43:37.600 --> 0:43:40.719 as part of Brewer and Shipley. Really cool song. They 0:43:40.760 --> 0:43:43.759 had the same vibe as they would later. You know, 0:43:43.800 --> 0:43:46.560 we're just barely denting the charts. I think we gotta 0:43:46.600 --> 0:43:50.560 pass because we'd have some popularity. Bruce Kunkle left at 0:43:50.560 --> 0:43:52.759 the in the middle of that record. He wanted to 0:43:52.800 --> 0:43:56.680 go electric. He he become a a real fan and 0:43:56.760 --> 0:43:59.600 devote of the mothers of invention. He want. He was 0:43:59.680 --> 0:44:04.640 a really imaginative cat still is really great guy, but uh, 0:44:04.920 --> 0:44:07.560 he moved on and Chris Darrow at the after that 0:44:07.640 --> 0:44:11.839 album came out, Chris Darrow joined up. This is late sixties, um, 0:44:12.800 --> 0:44:14.440 And if you want to talk about Christophers I got 0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:17.319 I'm happy to but well, yeah, you know, he's sort 0:44:17.360 --> 0:44:19.719 of the unsungen here. We're sort of zel Us in 0:44:19.760 --> 0:44:21.680 a million acts. How did you know Chris just from 0:44:21.680 --> 0:44:25.000 hanging out? So we were fans of the Mad Mountain 0:44:25.080 --> 0:44:27.800 Ramblers and the Dry City Scat Band, which is another 0:44:28.280 --> 0:44:30.879 band that Chris was in, and then he and Dave 0:44:31.560 --> 0:44:34.520 and and uh Solomon Feldhouse started a band, a guy 0:44:34.560 --> 0:44:38.480 named Max Buddha started this great band called the Kaleidoscope, 0:44:38.560 --> 0:44:43.560 who are legendary early world music. Played all kinds of stuff. 0:44:43.560 --> 0:44:46.560 They are electric and acoustic, and you used like East 0:44:46.640 --> 0:44:51.239 Indian instruments like the d and the size and but 0:44:51.400 --> 0:44:55.120 also like you know, altric guitars and banjo and electric 0:44:55.160 --> 0:44:58.600 fiddle and crazy god, what a great band. So Chris 0:44:58.640 --> 0:45:02.600 had just left the Kaleidoscope and we bumped into him 0:45:02.600 --> 0:45:04.879 somewhere and he said, man, you guys looking for another guy. 0:45:04.920 --> 0:45:08.279 We're like yeah, and he said, I'd love to play 0:45:08.320 --> 0:45:11.080 with you guys. He was kind of into jumping back 0:45:11.120 --> 0:45:13.640 into the acoustic world again. As soon as he got 0:45:13.640 --> 0:45:17.080 in the band. You know, he started playing fiddle and 0:45:17.120 --> 0:45:20.000 that's kind of where the Cajun thing that influence in 0:45:20.000 --> 0:45:23.000 our band came up. He has some really good original 0:45:23.040 --> 0:45:26.920 tunes and I remember and we did we did an 0:45:26.920 --> 0:45:32.120 album called Rare Junk, uh that you know about this time, 0:45:32.160 --> 0:45:34.480 I should point out, you know, we're still having no 0:45:34.640 --> 0:45:37.279 luck in the studio, although on on Rare Junk they 0:45:37.280 --> 0:45:41.480 finally let us record our jug band songs by ourselves, 0:45:42.200 --> 0:45:44.480 you know, with the caveat that we had to do 0:45:44.560 --> 0:45:47.840 like three songs that had a room full of musicians, 0:45:47.880 --> 0:45:51.440 sometimes a horn section or a string section. So we said, okay, 0:45:51.600 --> 0:45:54.320 we'll do that, but just kind of leave us alone, please, 0:45:54.480 --> 0:45:56.560 and they were like, we don't care. You're not selling records. 0:45:58.640 --> 0:46:01.360 So we you know, we made a little foray into 0:46:01.400 --> 0:46:03.680 what we might call a country rock. We recorded a 0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:06.439 cover of Reason to Believe, the great Tim Harden song. 0:46:07.080 --> 0:46:10.320 Our buddy Bernie Leaden came in and played acoustic guitar 0:46:10.480 --> 0:46:15.360 on that. That's how that was our association with Bernie started. 0:46:15.840 --> 0:46:18.440 You know, I'm glad that we sort of you know, 0:46:18.719 --> 0:46:21.120 I look at those records now as our kind of 0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:27.600 farm team training earn while you learn experience with our band. Um, okay, 0:46:27.640 --> 0:46:31.120 let's stay with the earn. Will you learn? Needless to say, 0:46:31.160 --> 0:46:33.759 in that era, having a record deal put you in 0:46:33.800 --> 0:46:38.960 a completely different class from everybody else. So how did 0:46:38.960 --> 0:46:43.600 you feel about yourself? How was the band surviving monetarily? 0:46:44.200 --> 0:46:47.400 How often were you playing live? What kind of money? 0:46:47.520 --> 0:46:50.520 What was going on? I couldn't even tell you about 0:46:50.520 --> 0:46:52.400 the kind of money. I really don't have a concept now, 0:46:52.440 --> 0:46:57.920 I can't. I just remember, Uh. At one point we 0:46:57.920 --> 0:46:59.880 were this is by from and the Reins a hit, right, 0:47:00.560 --> 0:47:05.760 So we had a really uh we had a booking 0:47:05.800 --> 0:47:09.279 agent that had a really great imagination and they decided 0:47:10.239 --> 0:47:12.200 I think it was a p A at the time. Gosh, 0:47:12.200 --> 0:47:14.200 I can't even remember. I believe it was. We've been 0:47:14.239 --> 0:47:16.279 with all of them at some point in another, some 0:47:16.480 --> 0:47:20.880 settled letters um and they sent us up to San Francisco. 0:47:20.960 --> 0:47:23.160 We played the film More by the Way a couple 0:47:23.160 --> 0:47:25.640 of times. The first time was with a band called 0:47:25.719 --> 0:47:29.319 Clear Light and also Blue Cheer, who were built as 0:47:29.360 --> 0:47:32.560 the world's loudest rock and roll and they were, I 0:47:32.600 --> 0:47:35.319 mean they were, they were amazing, So I understand we 0:47:35.400 --> 0:47:37.400 had probably the quietest band they had ever played the 0:47:37.400 --> 0:47:43.200 film More Us jug Band, Nobody's Plugged In and Blue Cheer, 0:47:44.880 --> 0:47:47.680 you know which was It was fun. Man. We went 0:47:47.719 --> 0:47:50.040 to San Francisco. I still got a film More poster. 0:47:50.160 --> 0:47:54.560 We headlined that gig and it was really cool. And 0:47:54.560 --> 0:47:59.120 then a few weeks later are Are The aforementioned agent 0:47:59.320 --> 0:48:02.480 said want you guys to play at the Basin Street West, 0:48:02.520 --> 0:48:07.840 which is a jazz club in San Francisco and opening 0:48:07.960 --> 0:48:13.680 for the great legendary organist, Mr Jimmy Smith. Okay, that 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:16.560 made no sense at all, but they were doing they had. 0:48:16.719 --> 0:48:19.600 They also represented Jefferson Airplane and and I think the 0:48:19.640 --> 0:48:23.440 Airplane played on a bill with Gosh, I can't remember, 0:48:23.640 --> 0:48:26.760 you know, maybe it was Miles Davis. It was also 0:48:26.920 --> 0:48:30.040 just kind of wacky. The one thing that came out 0:48:30.040 --> 0:48:32.440 of the Basin Street West gig that I really dug. 0:48:33.880 --> 0:48:36.239 There was a band called the Blues Project that was 0:48:36.280 --> 0:48:39.759 playing the film War that week, and that included a 0:48:39.760 --> 0:48:43.840 guy named Steve Katz. Uh, Danny was what was Danny's 0:48:43.920 --> 0:48:49.000 name the guitar player, sorry, uh, Jenny Calb and Al Cooper. 0:48:49.600 --> 0:48:53.439 So Alan, Danny and Steve came in probably to see 0:48:53.520 --> 0:48:57.080 Jimmy Smith play, but being ex Folky's all of them 0:48:57.080 --> 0:49:00.520 as well, they dug the jug band music and Al 0:49:00.800 --> 0:49:03.960 we really we became fast friends with Al. That still 0:49:04.280 --> 0:49:08.880 remains to this day. So you know, that would that 0:49:08.920 --> 0:49:11.279 would be that just became an ongoing thing and it 0:49:11.400 --> 0:49:13.400 was great. That was the coolest thing about it, getting 0:49:13.440 --> 0:49:16.600 to meet Al big fans of everything he ever did, 0:49:17.360 --> 0:49:20.480 and uh, you know, and then we live and learn. 0:49:20.600 --> 0:49:23.279 So we're by the way, we couldn't afford to stay 0:49:23.320 --> 0:49:26.680 in San Francisco while we're playing the Basin Street. We 0:49:26.760 --> 0:49:30.160 lived across the bridge in Mill Valley at this in 0:49:30.239 --> 0:49:35.799 this little fucking motel called the Fireside In. It's the 0:49:35.840 --> 0:49:39.960 first place I ever heard gunfire, actual real gun fire 0:49:40.280 --> 0:49:44.839 outside motel room. One night. We were so I mean, 0:49:45.440 --> 0:49:48.520 at this point, we really were like down to season stamps, 0:49:48.719 --> 0:49:53.080 literally and we had no money because it was I 0:49:53.120 --> 0:49:57.400 can't remember why. I just remember Jimmy Fadden, Jimmy Fadden's 0:49:57.440 --> 0:50:01.880 little brother, Terry, God bless him. Jimmy calls Terry and 0:50:01.880 --> 0:50:04.160 we said, you gotta get Terry up here. We need 0:50:04.200 --> 0:50:09.000 a roadie. So Terry came up and the first thing 0:50:09.040 --> 0:50:15.080 we said to him was do you have any cash? 0:50:15.080 --> 0:50:18.719 And Terry he was this, he's still around. He's just 0:50:18.800 --> 0:50:22.560 the best guy, really great kid. So yes, he loaned 0:50:22.640 --> 0:50:25.160 us the twenty bucks that he had and we bought 0:50:25.160 --> 0:50:27.520 some groceries, you know, a lot of peanut butter sandwiches. 0:50:27.719 --> 0:50:31.000 We actually got into fried cheerios, which were pretty good. 0:50:31.040 --> 0:50:34.000 You know. It was, you know, anything, we're scrambling. But 0:50:34.440 --> 0:50:38.200 cool thing about hanging out in in Mill Valley was 0:50:38.280 --> 0:50:42.360 right next to Saucelito. There was a club. I believe 0:50:42.440 --> 0:50:44.960 the club was called the Arc. It wasn't like a 0:50:45.080 --> 0:50:47.319 river boat or a house, and it was the art. 0:50:47.400 --> 0:50:50.160 It was like a I think they bought one of 0:50:50.160 --> 0:50:53.320 those old you know what do you call those wheels, 0:50:53.400 --> 0:50:59.160 paddle wheel steamships, and it was docked so you walked 0:50:59.200 --> 0:51:01.799 onto this, you across the little plank and that you're 0:51:01.840 --> 0:51:04.680 in this club. Well, we saw a Moby Gray play 0:51:04.719 --> 0:51:08.879 there a bunch because we were you know, we were 0:51:08.880 --> 0:51:11.640 only playing weeks, so we'd have like Moby Grapes playing 0:51:11.680 --> 0:51:14.359 for three nights and we're like, that's the best band 0:51:14.360 --> 0:51:17.359 we've ever heard, and this electric thing is pretty cool 0:51:17.480 --> 0:51:21.160 by the way, you know. So they were they were 0:51:21.200 --> 0:51:24.440 a perfect example of like taking a bunch of guys 0:51:25.400 --> 0:51:28.960 most of them started in folk music and really took 0:51:30.320 --> 0:51:33.320 I don't know, maybe the song sense. There was something 0:51:33.360 --> 0:51:35.759 about it that was just different. And they what a 0:51:35.760 --> 0:51:42.480 great band, you know, mysterious, legendary, cool, cool group. You know. 0:51:42.520 --> 0:51:44.839 At the same time we're we're doing these festivals, were 0:51:44.840 --> 0:51:47.279 playing with the Jefferson Airplane again and playing with the 0:51:47.360 --> 0:51:52.840 Doors a bunch uh the Buffalo Springfield. I remember playing 0:51:52.880 --> 0:51:57.719 with an early version of Stepping Wolf. Um. It was 0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:00.120 really cool, you know. In our jug band day, I 0:52:00.200 --> 0:52:02.680 might add, when we were playing places like the Ash Grove, 0:52:02.760 --> 0:52:09.080 we opened for Lightning Hopkins, Memphis, Slim Good, Lord uh 0:52:09.360 --> 0:52:13.680 Man's lipscumb Sonny Terry, and Brownie McGhee again. So we're 0:52:13.800 --> 0:52:16.600 learning a lot. This is like school for us. A 0:52:16.600 --> 0:52:20.240 lot of the great bluegrass acts again, New Lost City Ramblers, 0:52:20.239 --> 0:52:22.280 whom I loved, and they were an old timey group 0:52:22.600 --> 0:52:26.279 that included uh what what was his name? John Cohen? 0:52:26.360 --> 0:52:32.560 I love John Cohen and uh Pece Seeger's brother Mike Seegar. Ridiculous. 0:52:32.760 --> 0:52:36.360 I mean that the as sponges. We were so lucky. 0:52:36.520 --> 0:52:39.480 You know, we're absorbing all this stuff. But also, you know, 0:52:39.560 --> 0:52:42.480 we're hearing these kids are these guys that used to 0:52:42.520 --> 0:52:44.919 hang around and play folk music in the back room 0:52:45.120 --> 0:52:48.319 became this band called the Rising Suns, which was Ray 0:52:48.400 --> 0:52:52.360 Cooter and Taj Mahal. So we're like, oh yeah again, 0:52:52.960 --> 0:52:58.279 they're taking this influence in this gift um and turn 0:52:58.360 --> 0:53:01.920 it into their electrifying So we started. You know, we 0:53:02.040 --> 0:53:04.759 bought a bass and and a half. I bought a 0:53:04.840 --> 0:53:07.880 drum kit. I should point out real quickly that we 0:53:08.000 --> 0:53:11.080 made this movie. We were in this film for three minutes, 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:14.000 but it took us three months to do it in 0:53:14.120 --> 0:53:17.719 the woods and the wilds of Oregon. The film was 0:53:17.760 --> 0:53:22.000 called Painter Wagon Major motion picture, actually the most expensive 0:53:22.040 --> 0:53:24.600 film up to that point that had ever been made 0:53:24.600 --> 0:53:32.120 by Hollywood. Saw it. Oh yeah, you know what, it's 0:53:32.160 --> 0:53:33.960 a lot of fun to watch now, But it was 0:53:34.080 --> 0:53:37.640 Lee Marvin, this guy that had been making these spaghetti 0:53:37.680 --> 0:53:44.719 westerns named Clint Eastwood, and this great actress, uh, the 0:53:44.760 --> 0:53:48.600 great late grade Jeane Sieberg. There was this crazy part 0:53:48.680 --> 0:53:51.360 for her because she'd done all these amazing sort of 0:53:51.520 --> 0:53:56.480 artie films, you know. Uh, she was a serious, serious actor. 0:53:57.680 --> 0:54:01.880 So there we are. We're playing a drug band. Basically 0:54:02.120 --> 0:54:04.080 we were, you know, it was all these mining was 0:54:04.120 --> 0:54:07.080 the gold rushing California. That was the premise. So it's 0:54:07.120 --> 0:54:11.120 all these uh you know, these miners up you know, 0:54:11.239 --> 0:54:15.560 and we're slogging through these mining gold mining, you know, 0:54:15.640 --> 0:54:18.840 trying to pan for gold or dig these tunnels. And 0:54:19.880 --> 0:54:22.600 it's a comedy, a musical. And we did this song 0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:27.840 called hand Me Down that Cannabians. And we were up 0:54:27.840 --> 0:54:29.600 there for three months. There's a bunch of guys from 0:54:29.640 --> 0:54:33.279 southern California. Three months in a town the population was 0:54:33.320 --> 0:54:36.560 about I think, I don't know me, I'm exaggerating just 0:54:36.600 --> 0:54:40.160 because I can. And we had nothing to do. We 0:54:40.160 --> 0:54:44.239 were so bored, and we started kind of getting at 0:54:44.280 --> 0:54:46.920 each other and you know, picking on each other things 0:54:46.920 --> 0:54:49.799 that we didn't care about. We started caring about that 0:54:49.880 --> 0:54:52.640 we didn't like, and there was this tug and pull 0:54:52.640 --> 0:54:57.920 about musical direction. Well, I remember Chris and I that summer, 0:54:59.120 --> 0:55:01.360 and I might you a little off on my timeline, 0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:07.480 but Sweetheart of the Rodeo was out and music from 0:55:07.520 --> 0:55:10.839 Big Pink was out, and I heard music from Big 0:55:10.880 --> 0:55:13.399 Pink and I didn't want to play guitar ever again. 0:55:13.440 --> 0:55:16.920 I wanted to play drums. I wanted to play drums 0:55:17.000 --> 0:55:20.319 like Leo on Hell you know, and and Ringo was 0:55:20.360 --> 0:55:22.719 really getting into that Tom Phil thing that he did, 0:55:22.760 --> 0:55:26.520 so well, uh you know. I I've learned how to 0:55:26.520 --> 0:55:28.480 play drums from one of the guys that played in 0:55:28.520 --> 0:55:30.960 the Mothers of Invention, a guy named Denny Bruce, who 0:55:31.000 --> 0:55:33.319 was kind enough to show me how to play along 0:55:33.360 --> 0:55:37.840 to first record Ruby Tuesday. Um, good Bye Ruby Tuesday 0:55:37.880 --> 0:55:41.080 by Da Dad Da dadda Dada, that Snare Phil and 0:55:41.120 --> 0:55:42.960 that was it. Man. I wanted to learn drums, and 0:55:43.040 --> 0:55:46.520 Chris is going, hey, man, we need to take the 0:55:46.520 --> 0:55:50.440 band in a country rock direction. This thing is so happening, 0:55:50.920 --> 0:55:53.160 you know, he says, my buddies, like Chris HILLMTT was 0:55:53.200 --> 0:55:56.520 one of Chris Chris Darrow's buddies. So these guys are 0:55:56.560 --> 0:55:59.080 doing this thing. It's so cool. And the birds and 0:55:59.120 --> 0:56:02.480 like they hire Clarence White now, who's playing this great 0:56:02.560 --> 0:56:06.880 b bender guitar, telecaster and everything shifting the place are 0:56:06.920 --> 0:56:09.799 shift in here musically, and it made sense because we 0:56:09.840 --> 0:56:12.319 all love country music, we love blue grass, and we 0:56:12.320 --> 0:56:16.120 were just getting a little tired of making records for 0:56:16.400 --> 0:56:19.200 a company that didn't really care about Joe band music anyways, 0:56:19.280 --> 0:56:21.320 and we were kind of ready to move on in general. 0:56:22.360 --> 0:56:26.040 So we got back to l a after after three 0:56:26.040 --> 0:56:29.000 months in Oregon, which was lovely, by the way, except 0:56:29.000 --> 0:56:31.520 for the part that we were so just bored stiff, 0:56:32.640 --> 0:56:36.839 and we got our record companies like, you know, you guys, 0:56:36.840 --> 0:56:38.719 have one more record on your deal, Let's do a 0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:42.360 live album. We're like whatever, Sure, So we played the 0:56:42.360 --> 0:56:46.279 Tributor for a week. Well, our opening act was this 0:56:46.320 --> 0:56:52.000 band called Pogo, and Poco was Poco before you know, 0:56:52.120 --> 0:56:55.439 Walt Kelly the Cartoonists, decided that he's going to sue 0:56:55.480 --> 0:56:59.800 them if they didn't change their name Poco original lineup. 0:57:00.760 --> 0:57:03.400 For me, honestly, I never saw the Beatles play, but 0:57:03.440 --> 0:57:05.400 I felt like I was in the Cavern Club watching 0:57:05.440 --> 0:57:09.799 the Beatles play. They were so damn good. I mean, 0:57:09.800 --> 0:57:13.680 the harmonies were ridiculous and I was a fan already 0:57:13.719 --> 0:57:16.720 of Richie Furres from the Buffalo Springfields. You got Ritchie, 0:57:17.160 --> 0:57:19.920 you got Jim Messina on guitar, you had the great 0:57:20.040 --> 0:57:23.920 Randy Meisner on bass and high high harmony, and George 0:57:23.960 --> 0:57:27.400 Grantham singing drummer. I'm like, yep, George Grantham singing drummer, 0:57:28.040 --> 0:57:31.760 Levin Helm singing drummer. That's the thing I filed that away. 0:57:31.840 --> 0:57:35.320 So we're opening for Poco Dirt Band. Honestly at this 0:57:35.360 --> 0:57:37.840 point we're on our last legs and the opening act 0:57:38.880 --> 0:57:42.760 is the Beatles. So they would come off stage every 0:57:42.840 --> 0:57:45.640 night and they're high five in each other and they're 0:57:45.680 --> 0:57:48.440 just whoop, whoop, whoop, and the nicest guys I might add, 0:57:48.600 --> 0:57:52.520 you know, and we're just like, we're struggling to try 0:57:52.600 --> 0:57:57.040 to play some kind of sort of country rock, folk 0:57:57.160 --> 0:58:00.320 rock stuff. The one thing that worked was working really 0:58:00.360 --> 0:58:04.680 well was a Cajun song called Alligator Man. I played drums, 0:58:04.800 --> 0:58:07.760 Chris Darrow played uh fiddle on it, and it was 0:58:07.800 --> 0:58:11.240 really a Cajun rock tune. That thing would end up 0:58:11.280 --> 0:58:14.880 mattering a few months later. So at the end of 0:58:14.920 --> 0:58:18.320 that run, super depressed, we're like, what are we going 0:58:18.400 --> 0:58:20.240 to do with the band. The band's tugging and pulling 0:58:20.280 --> 0:58:23.480 in different directions. Uh, you know, some of the guys 0:58:23.520 --> 0:58:26.440 wanted to sort of do the country rock thing. You know, 0:58:26.760 --> 0:58:28.960 Chris and I are talking to each other going, we 0:58:29.000 --> 0:58:32.280 can't really pull this off, you know, we it's not 0:58:33.320 --> 0:58:36.720 And then our buddy Ralph bar and his wife Holly 0:58:36.960 --> 0:58:39.880 wanted to do like a folk duo thing, and their 0:58:40.000 --> 0:58:42.640 friend Dwayne Almand was going to produce a record on him. 0:58:43.400 --> 0:58:47.920 So they're drifting over here. There was some you know, 0:58:48.040 --> 0:58:51.720 business arguments about whether or not we're with the right 0:58:51.800 --> 0:58:55.720 manager or not, as it just got toxic, and Chris 0:58:55.760 --> 0:58:57.880 and I are gone, man, let's just start. Let's just 0:58:58.000 --> 0:59:01.040 let's walk away from this thing. So we did, you know, 0:59:01.680 --> 0:59:04.040 not a lot of arguments somebody had. Everybody was just 0:59:04.120 --> 0:59:06.640 tired and burned out, as burnout as you can be 0:59:06.680 --> 0:59:11.160 at twenty one. Um, So Chris and I started this 0:59:11.240 --> 0:59:14.280 band and it was me and him and uh, this 0:59:14.440 --> 0:59:17.920 great drummer named John Ware who would go on to 0:59:18.040 --> 0:59:21.720 be the drummer for the first National Band and Emmy 0:59:21.760 --> 0:59:26.480 Lou Harris's Hot band. Johnny Ware terrific drummer, great guy. 0:59:26.520 --> 0:59:31.960 Another art student from Claremont where Chris lived, uh and 0:59:32.120 --> 0:59:35.080 John London on base and John London whose real name 0:59:35.080 --> 0:59:37.720 was John Keeney. He grew up his best friend was 0:59:37.760 --> 0:59:40.880 Michael Nesmith. So John had been working on the set 0:59:40.880 --> 0:59:44.800 of The Monkeys as as Michael stand in, and he'd 0:59:44.800 --> 0:59:47.440 been playing in a band called the Lewis and Clark Expedition, 0:59:47.520 --> 0:59:52.000 which was Michael one of Michael Murphy's Martin Murphy's first bands. 0:59:52.000 --> 0:59:54.320 So these guys are cool, man. We we started working 0:59:54.360 --> 0:59:56.040 up tunes and it's fun, and Chris and I are 0:59:56.080 --> 0:59:58.200 writing a bunch of songs. Johnny Ware wrote a couple 0:59:58.760 --> 1:00:01.320 and it was like we're often running. It was like 1:00:01.400 --> 1:00:03.800 country rock cool, and I'm trying to come up with 1:00:03.840 --> 1:00:07.280 a country rock band I name, and it's like, how 1:00:07.320 --> 1:00:10.720 about buck Wheat buckwheats a cool, cool sound meaning buck 1:00:10.720 --> 1:00:15.800 Wheat not the Little Rascal's character, uh or wheat straw, 1:00:16.200 --> 1:00:19.040 or like, how about I don't know, Southern Pacific. That's 1:00:19.040 --> 1:00:24.480 a pretty good name. Nobody liked that, so uh So 1:00:24.680 --> 1:00:28.480 Chris and John, being way hipper than I were, said, 1:00:28.600 --> 1:00:32.200 how about the Corvettes? Totally ironic? That does not sound 1:00:32.360 --> 1:00:34.960 nothing can sound further from a country rock band name, 1:00:35.160 --> 1:00:37.640 and I'm like, okay, these guys are a couple of 1:00:37.680 --> 1:00:41.200 years a couple of years older, far far hipper than 1:00:41.240 --> 1:00:44.120 I was. I went cool, what are the corvettes? And 1:00:44.120 --> 1:00:50.160 then John London he brought Chris Derrek. I sorry. John 1:00:50.240 --> 1:00:54.160 London brought Michael Nasmith into one of our rehearsals, and 1:00:54.240 --> 1:00:56.840 Michael has been hired as a producer. He got a 1:00:56.840 --> 1:01:00.720 production deal with Dot Records. He says, I want to 1:01:00.760 --> 1:01:03.520 sign you guys to a deal, a singles deal. So 1:01:03.560 --> 1:01:06.640 we cut some sides with Michael, which was really fun. 1:01:07.280 --> 1:01:10.000 Got to know him really well, really great cat, one 1:01:10.040 --> 1:01:13.960 of my favorite people ever. We're starving. They put out 1:01:13.960 --> 1:01:16.520 a single I think, and it didn't really stick, and 1:01:16.520 --> 1:01:18.520 they put they started to put out another one, and 1:01:18.640 --> 1:01:22.920 out of the blue, our dear friend Linda ron Stat 1:01:23.160 --> 1:01:26.880 calls us up. She's you know, the Stone Ponies are 1:01:26.880 --> 1:01:30.360 broken up. She's now a solo act. She said, I 1:01:30.440 --> 1:01:32.520 need a band. Would you guys be my band? She 1:01:32.640 --> 1:01:34.920 loved the way Chris, she loved the way John and 1:01:35.040 --> 1:01:38.360 John the rhythm section was great. We were friends. She 1:01:38.480 --> 1:01:41.040 was kind to me. Bee. I'm like, I wasn't bringing 1:01:41.040 --> 1:01:42.680 a whole lot, but I was a good harmony singer. 1:01:43.040 --> 1:01:45.840 And then Chris's fiddle. She loved that Cajun fiddle thing. 1:01:46.040 --> 1:01:48.840 And Chris Blay lead guitar really well. So it's Linda 1:01:48.920 --> 1:01:53.040 Ronstat and the Corvetts. We hit the road and man, wow, 1:01:53.880 --> 1:01:56.520 it was amazing for a thousand reasons, one being we 1:01:56.560 --> 1:01:59.360 all had giant crushes on Linda, of course because he's 1:01:59.440 --> 1:02:02.520 Lenda Ron's that and one of the greatest singers that 1:02:02.680 --> 1:02:07.440 ever lived. And so I'm learning to sing harmony with 1:02:07.520 --> 1:02:11.440 Linda and this is really cool. And we're doing songs 1:02:11.520 --> 1:02:16.160 like silver Threads and gold Needles and oh, different drum 1:02:16.280 --> 1:02:19.400 every night. She had a song called some of Shelley's 1:02:19.400 --> 1:02:22.960 Blues that Michael wrote that I just loved. We're saying 1:02:23.000 --> 1:02:26.400 a long long time. You know, she's god. She took 1:02:26.440 --> 1:02:30.000 the only Daddy that Will walk the line great whale 1:02:30.000 --> 1:02:32.360 and Jennings song turned it into only Mama that will 1:02:32.360 --> 1:02:35.320 walk the line, and she mean it was just killer. 1:02:35.360 --> 1:02:37.720 We The only time I ever played with the whiskey 1:02:37.920 --> 1:02:43.160 was in Linda's band, So this is really fun. And uh, 1:02:43.320 --> 1:02:45.400 several months go by, I think, you know, I think 1:02:45.400 --> 1:02:48.320 it's around six months. We're doing the corvettes, and Linda 1:02:49.120 --> 1:02:53.600 and I ran into John McEwen at a Poco show 1:02:53.800 --> 1:02:58.240 ironically at the Golden Bear, and we looked at each 1:02:58.280 --> 1:03:01.600 other and said we could do this. Let's give it 1:03:01.640 --> 1:03:06.440 another shot. So we called up Les Thompson who was 1:03:06.480 --> 1:03:08.480 in immediately he just as long as I get to 1:03:08.480 --> 1:03:11.160 play electric bass, yes, less you can play electric bass. 1:03:11.360 --> 1:03:13.840 Turned into a really good bass player, great bass player 1:03:13.840 --> 1:03:16.840 by then, and Jimmy Fadden who was also picking up 1:03:16.880 --> 1:03:19.200 the drums. So Jimmy and I are both playing drums, 1:03:19.520 --> 1:03:22.400 and Jimmy was becoming a really great allectric guitar player 1:03:22.720 --> 1:03:26.760 along as his legendary harp skills as well great harmonica player. 1:03:27.400 --> 1:03:29.240 But we're like, we need to singing drummer. We all 1:03:29.280 --> 1:03:31.800 agree we need to leve on or we needed George 1:03:31.800 --> 1:03:35.919 Grantham and uh a friend of ours and Mitral friend 1:03:35.920 --> 1:03:38.560 of ours knew this guy Jimmy Ibson who had just 1:03:38.760 --> 1:03:43.880 moved out to California. He was from Philadelphia, went to 1:03:43.920 --> 1:03:47.160 school in Newcastle, Indiana, and moved out to l A 1:03:47.280 --> 1:03:50.240 to become a star. And he was having the kind 1:03:50.240 --> 1:03:53.600 of experience that the rest of us were. You know, 1:03:54.320 --> 1:03:57.520 so if he's been playing you know, these pick up gigs. 1:03:57.600 --> 1:04:00.760 His his roommate was this guy named Kevin Kelly, one 1:04:00.800 --> 1:04:03.440 of his roommates who was playing with that version of 1:04:03.480 --> 1:04:07.200 the Birds. And then he had another roommate later on 1:04:07.360 --> 1:04:11.439 named Danny Danny Lotomoser, who was a folk rock kind 1:04:11.440 --> 1:04:16.400 of guy. So mutual friends. We got introduced to Ibby. 1:04:16.560 --> 1:04:18.720 We called him maybe because we had two Jimmy's at 1:04:18.720 --> 1:04:23.600 this point. Uh, and he comes over, we play drums 1:04:23.640 --> 1:04:26.640 with us. Were like, this is really great, and he's like, well, 1:04:26.720 --> 1:04:30.240 let's stick around after class. We're already impressed by his drumming. 1:04:30.760 --> 1:04:33.600 Everybody splits. Me and Jimmy are sitting there with a 1:04:33.600 --> 1:04:36.280 couple of acoustic guitars and he's a really good guitar player, 1:04:36.320 --> 1:04:38.520 I come to find out. And we already knew he 1:04:38.560 --> 1:04:42.880 could sing, but we started singing Everly Brothers songs and 1:04:42.880 --> 1:04:46.120 it's like, oh man, we got It's like I gotta fill, 1:04:46.280 --> 1:04:48.800 I gotta don However, you know, we would switched back 1:04:48.840 --> 1:04:51.840 and forth and I was in heaven. Man, this is 1:04:51.880 --> 1:04:56.280 like become my favorite singer, well next to Linda that 1:04:56.400 --> 1:04:59.120 I'd ever sung with. And we had this thing. We 1:04:59.160 --> 1:05:02.880 had this bland that was like like brothers singing together. 1:05:03.720 --> 1:05:05.720 Turned out if he could play the bass, he could 1:05:05.720 --> 1:05:07.720 play a lectric guitar, he could play a little bit 1:05:07.760 --> 1:05:10.760 of clarinet, a little bit of pianos like man, and 1:05:10.880 --> 1:05:15.160 he writes songs. So he'sa Meanwhile, what's happened to Chris 1:05:15.240 --> 1:05:20.320 Daryl Chris darrells? He Chris stayed with Linda the Corvettes. 1:05:20.360 --> 1:05:23.040 Bernie Letton came in and took my place in the Corvettes. 1:05:23.400 --> 1:05:26.520 So this is the first time Bernie who eventually you 1:05:26.560 --> 1:05:29.800 know the deal. Bernie stays in the band, played with 1:05:29.840 --> 1:05:32.600 the Corvette for a while, then he went off and 1:05:32.720 --> 1:05:35.680 played with the Burrito Brothers for a while. Chris continued 1:05:35.960 --> 1:05:38.200 playing in that group, and then he got us. He 1:05:38.320 --> 1:05:42.200 got signed I believe again either to you A or 1:05:43.160 --> 1:05:47.120 Liberty EO By Perhaps I'm sorry I have a little 1:05:47.160 --> 1:05:50.680 brain fire here. But he had a solo deal and 1:05:50.800 --> 1:05:54.400 made some really really great records, among them artist Proof, 1:05:54.480 --> 1:05:57.800 which is my favorite. I think he became friends. He 1:05:57.840 --> 1:06:00.520 and Peter Asher became friends. Chris ended up and fiddle 1:06:00.560 --> 1:06:04.360 on Sweet Baby. James uh Our buddy John London from 1:06:04.400 --> 1:06:08.280 the Corvets played bass on Shoot. He played bass on 1:06:08.280 --> 1:06:12.640 on the song Sweet Baby James on that record. Meanwhile, 1:06:13.120 --> 1:06:16.200 John Lennon and John Ware started a Bama John with 1:06:16.280 --> 1:06:19.800 Michael Nesmuth. So so you got the two Johnnies and 1:06:19.880 --> 1:06:22.439 Mike Nesmuth. They got the first national band going, which 1:06:22.440 --> 1:06:25.680 it was another one of the great underrated country rock 1:06:25.720 --> 1:06:29.880 bands of all time. I think, uh so, yeah, so 1:06:29.920 --> 1:06:35.000 the Dirt band re kind of re uh imagined as 1:06:35.040 --> 1:06:38.680 this country rock band. And then how do you wind? 1:06:40.000 --> 1:06:43.600 You rehearse? Now your deal is done with Liberty? So 1:06:43.720 --> 1:06:46.640 what happens? Well, my deal I was done with Liberty 1:06:46.680 --> 1:06:48.360 because I had to get out of my record deal. 1:06:48.480 --> 1:06:51.360 They still had me under contract, and I pulled a 1:06:51.400 --> 1:06:56.560 trick on them and got out of that. I called 1:06:56.640 --> 1:06:59.680 up the president of Liberty Records and I kept calling 1:06:59.720 --> 1:07:01.800 him and call him. There's no email back then. I 1:07:01.800 --> 1:07:04.760 couldn't slide a note under his door because security wouldn't 1:07:04.800 --> 1:07:07.200 let me through. And I'm like, because I wanted to 1:07:07.240 --> 1:07:10.360 sign this deal with Dot Records with Mike Nesmuth and 1:07:10.560 --> 1:07:15.280 his I believe it was Bud Dane, and I kept 1:07:15.280 --> 1:07:18.040 calling and They're like, Nat, who who's this calling? He'll 1:07:18.040 --> 1:07:20.400 call you back. Never called. So finally I got on 1:07:20.440 --> 1:07:23.720 there and they said who's calling and I said, um, 1:07:23.720 --> 1:07:28.720 Tommy Boys. Tommy Boys and Bobby Hart wrote Last Train 1:07:28.800 --> 1:07:32.440 to Clarksville. They were huge hit singers, his huge his 1:07:32.640 --> 1:07:37.440 songwriters in l A. At the point, but gets on 1:07:37.480 --> 1:07:40.120 the phone Tommy, how are you, babe? And I'm like, 1:07:40.160 --> 1:07:42.560 I'm great, And then I listened for a couple of 1:07:42.600 --> 1:07:45.080 more minutes of small talk. I said, actually, this is 1:07:45.160 --> 1:07:47.919 Jeff Hannah and he goes, oh, Jeff, how are you doing? 1:07:47.960 --> 1:07:50.360 What are you up to? Long time no speak. He says, 1:07:50.400 --> 1:07:52.040 I'm actually kind of trying to get out of my 1:07:52.080 --> 1:07:55.560 record deal, and he goes, no problem, come by tomorrow. 1:07:56.200 --> 1:07:59.560 You know, he signed a paper let let me go. Yeah, 1:07:59.560 --> 1:08:01.800 I was was worth anything to him, but it was 1:08:01.840 --> 1:08:05.439 a sweet thing to do. I appreciated that. So Bill 1:08:05.520 --> 1:08:11.160 McEwen again, we go play the Troubadour and uh, people 1:08:11.280 --> 1:08:14.280 like this, they liked this band. We Meanwhile, we rehearsed 1:08:14.320 --> 1:08:17.479 for like three months. Les Thompson's dad had was at 1:08:17.600 --> 1:08:22.680 Sea Bring jukebox distributor, and we rehearsed in his in 1:08:22.760 --> 1:08:26.360 his warehouse in Long Beach. So we were a wood 1:08:26.400 --> 1:08:27.760 shed and it was like I think it was the 1:08:27.800 --> 1:08:30.360 first time since my mom's garage that we really would 1:08:30.439 --> 1:08:33.920 shed it and it was fun. Man Jimmy Everson's bringing 1:08:33.960 --> 1:08:36.559 in songs by this kid that he met at a 1:08:36.600 --> 1:08:40.840 party named Kenny Loggins. We recorded four Kenny songs and 1:08:40.880 --> 1:08:42.880 nobody had ever heard by the way or heard of 1:08:43.200 --> 1:08:46.080 at that point. Did a couple of you know, originals. 1:08:46.080 --> 1:08:48.000 I there was a song that I used to sing 1:08:48.000 --> 1:08:50.760 with the Corvettes called The Cure that ended up on 1:08:50.800 --> 1:08:54.360 the record. But a lot of covers Randy Newman living 1:08:54.360 --> 1:09:00.639 Without You, Um, shoot, who else do we cover? Michael 1:09:00.720 --> 1:09:03.759 Nesmuth So Michelle's Blues. That's one of the first songs 1:09:04.120 --> 1:09:06.760 I learned to sing with Linda and I worked it 1:09:06.840 --> 1:09:09.879 up with Jimmy Ibbotson and him singing lead, me singing harmony, 1:09:09.920 --> 1:09:14.479 and that fit really well. Um, you know, and I 1:09:14.880 --> 1:09:16.639 whatever we did, Buddy, how we did, we were huge 1:09:16.640 --> 1:09:19.200 Buddy Holly fans. We did Ray Van on that record, 1:09:19.520 --> 1:09:23.880 an old blues tune called travel and Mood some bluegrass. 1:09:23.960 --> 1:09:26.760 We did the Great Earl Scrugs instrumental called Randy Lynn 1:09:26.840 --> 1:09:31.880 Rag Clinch Mountain Backstep, Ralph Stanley tune. You know, it 1:09:32.000 --> 1:09:35.280 was a it was a a mash up you know, 1:09:35.320 --> 1:09:45.599 the dirt band was always instill our eclectic. Okay, So 1:09:45.640 --> 1:09:47.800 how did you end up pack on Liberty and how 1:09:47.840 --> 1:09:51.760 did Bill mceuwan end up being the producer? Well, that 1:09:51.880 --> 1:09:54.200 was one of the deals. When Bill came back into 1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:57.960 the picture. He had matured as a manager and as 1:09:57.960 --> 1:10:00.720 a producer and he just kind us. He went to 1:10:00.800 --> 1:10:03.600 these guys that said, look, come see these guys at 1:10:03.680 --> 1:10:06.519 Drew Badur and we you know, they still hired us 1:10:06.560 --> 1:10:08.400 because they liked us when we were a drug band. 1:10:09.040 --> 1:10:12.519 He came in and love the band, and Bill said, 1:10:12.560 --> 1:10:14.920 here's the deal. I want to produce him and they 1:10:14.920 --> 1:10:19.160 were like, well, okay, fine, cut a couple of sides. 1:10:19.360 --> 1:10:21.920 We cut a couple of sides. They loved it. So 1:10:21.960 --> 1:10:24.720 he stayed on and Bill remained our producer through I 1:10:24.760 --> 1:10:27.600 don't know four albums I think uh. And he was 1:10:27.640 --> 1:10:34.679 a great managed, superman and incredibly and a visionary musically, 1:10:34.800 --> 1:10:37.439 you know, and he knew his stuff. He knew to 1:10:37.560 --> 1:10:40.479 use good mix. He got a great engineer, engineer Mr 1:10:40.560 --> 1:10:44.400 Dino Lapis, who was a staff engineer at World Pacific 1:10:44.439 --> 1:10:46.240 and Liberty and a couple of these studios where we 1:10:46.280 --> 1:10:49.840 started out. But he knew how he wanted the band 1:10:49.880 --> 1:10:52.560 to sound. He wanted to record this stuff. Well, he 1:10:52.640 --> 1:10:56.439 wanted the drums and bass and the alleged guitar and 1:10:56.760 --> 1:11:02.040 you know, the acoustic instruments. Great vintage gear wasn't vantaged 1:11:02.080 --> 1:11:05.519 back then, but really great analog gear. And that record 1:11:05.560 --> 1:11:09.759 signed awesome, I thought, you know, so we were proud 1:11:09.800 --> 1:11:12.040 of what we were doing. And at the tail end 1:11:12.080 --> 1:11:14.880 of the sessions, you know, we found this other song, 1:11:16.520 --> 1:11:20.120 Mr bo Jangles. Okay, but how did you how did 1:11:20.120 --> 1:11:24.400 he make a deal with Liberty which you've just gotten off. Uh, 1:11:25.000 --> 1:11:28.519 he just said we're gonna start from scratch. It started 1:11:28.560 --> 1:11:30.720 because Bud Dane loved the band. He loved this new 1:11:30.760 --> 1:11:33.920 incarnation of the band. So they wanted to sign us. 1:11:33.960 --> 1:11:38.799 Because just as folk rock and and sort of whatever 1:11:38.880 --> 1:11:42.320 jug band music were popular in sixty seven, now it's 1:11:42.400 --> 1:11:46.720 nineteen seventy and like country rocks, the thing, baby, you know, 1:11:46.800 --> 1:11:50.360 the Palomino Club is jumping in North Hollywood. The Trouger 1:11:50.400 --> 1:11:53.679 is now home to you know this band, Long Branch, 1:11:53.760 --> 1:11:58.880 Penny Whistle, uh and Poke Poco. Now the Burrito Brothers 1:11:58.880 --> 1:12:01.960 would come by now and again play and it was 1:12:02.400 --> 1:12:05.120 it was a thing uh, you know, even even the 1:12:05.720 --> 1:12:10.519 singer songwriter stuff, Lynda's stuff, Jackson Brown had just gotten signed, 1:12:11.439 --> 1:12:17.559 uh Dan Fogelberg. This new vibe was very much in 1:12:17.720 --> 1:12:21.080 line with the country rock stuff. So they wanted to 1:12:21.160 --> 1:12:23.479 jump on that bat that bandwagon, and they we played 1:12:23.520 --> 1:12:26.240 him a couple of tracks, played them Ravan and Shelley's Blues, 1:12:26.280 --> 1:12:29.360 I think, and they loved them both. So so you 1:12:29.479 --> 1:12:34.599 find Mr. Bo Jangles, Yeah, uh, never heard the song 1:12:34.760 --> 1:12:38.040 in my life. Didn't know who Jerry Jeff was. We were. 1:12:38.160 --> 1:12:40.479 I was coming home from rehearsal one night and I 1:12:40.600 --> 1:12:44.160 heard I'm driving I lived, and I think I lived 1:12:44.160 --> 1:12:46.800 in Seal Beach, driving a few miles from Long Beach 1:12:46.840 --> 1:12:49.400 to Seal Beach, got my radio on his FM radio, 1:12:49.560 --> 1:12:53.800 old school, no back, announcing they'd play fifteen songs without 1:12:53.880 --> 1:12:58.479 telling you who it was, and I heard, probably flipping 1:12:58.520 --> 1:13:01.600 the dial, I heard probably the last two verses in 1:13:01.640 --> 1:13:05.519 the last chorus of Mr. Bo Jangles. But as soon 1:13:05.560 --> 1:13:07.560 as I heard it, I pulled the car off the 1:13:07.640 --> 1:13:10.640 road and you know, shut shut the engine off so 1:13:10.680 --> 1:13:13.280 I could really hear it great, And I was really 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:15.439 got this lump in my throat hearing this story about 1:13:15.439 --> 1:13:17.920 this old guy and his dog, and the melody was 1:13:18.040 --> 1:13:22.439 beautiful and a great I mean, a compelling story. So 1:13:22.800 --> 1:13:27.799 next day I came running into the warehouse and I'm like, guys, 1:13:28.800 --> 1:13:30.880 you know, basically, I'm like, I got the final piece 1:13:30.960 --> 1:13:33.320 to the puzzle here, Guys. I heard this great song. 1:13:34.360 --> 1:13:38.000 And we have started using an accordion and mandolin as 1:13:38.040 --> 1:13:42.400 well together on our records. And we started talking about 1:13:42.439 --> 1:13:44.200 we were big fans of the band, and the band 1:13:44.240 --> 1:13:47.360 had done that on the song Old Rocking Chair on 1:13:47.439 --> 1:13:50.080 the on their uh, their second album, the Brown album, 1:13:50.800 --> 1:13:54.120 and I like, we started talking about that would really 1:13:54.120 --> 1:13:57.240 be the way to do this acoustic guitars. We brought 1:13:57.280 --> 1:13:59.720 in this kid named Russ Kunkle to to sort of 1:13:59.760 --> 1:14:03.920 set about the drums, and uh, Jimmy Fadden had a 1:14:03.960 --> 1:14:06.320 really great drum arrangement, but you know he was he 1:14:06.360 --> 1:14:09.200 was mad enough to like hand the sticks to Russ 1:14:09.280 --> 1:14:11.760 for that one. We all did that, you know, we did. 1:14:11.800 --> 1:14:15.680 We We occasionally have session guys come in because they 1:14:15.720 --> 1:14:21.879 played better in the studio. So we cut the song. Uh, 1:14:22.000 --> 1:14:24.679 Jimmy Everson, I didn't finish my story, so Jimmy Everson 1:14:24.720 --> 1:14:28.000 immediately went that's Mr Bo Jangles When I said, what's 1:14:28.040 --> 1:14:31.000 this song called? He had a forty five rpm in 1:14:31.040 --> 1:14:35.320 the trunk of his car under the spare tire, scratched 1:14:35.439 --> 1:14:40.160 all the hell, and so we we stacked We stacked 1:14:40.200 --> 1:14:42.760 pennies on the needle of the record player to get 1:14:42.760 --> 1:14:46.960 it to track better. Actually misheard a couple of the lyrics, 1:14:47.400 --> 1:14:50.720 which we recorded it that way, you know, later on 1:14:50.800 --> 1:14:52.640 became a huge hit with the wrong words in a 1:14:52.680 --> 1:14:55.519 couple of places. But Jerry Jeff, whom we met later 1:14:56.080 --> 1:14:58.280 forgave us because the sold a million copies. He was 1:14:58.320 --> 1:15:04.400 a happy camper, you know. So um yeah, So we 1:15:04.400 --> 1:15:06.880 we put the whole album together. Bill McEwen had this 1:15:07.080 --> 1:15:10.519 cool idea where he left a lot of the in 1:15:10.680 --> 1:15:14.200 studio chatter and count offs and laughter and just the 1:15:14.280 --> 1:15:17.080 fun stuff. He left a lot of that on the record, 1:15:17.160 --> 1:15:21.200 which we really dug you know. It was like, uh, 1:15:21.320 --> 1:15:24.679 the curtain being pulled back a little bit. And later 1:15:24.680 --> 1:15:27.200 on our fans really dug it as well. And he 1:15:27.280 --> 1:15:29.800 actually had this recording of this old guy, this guy 1:15:30.280 --> 1:15:33.600 who was his wife's uncle, Charlie, that he had recorded 1:15:34.520 --> 1:15:39.080 on a portable two track recorder years before in in 1:15:39.479 --> 1:15:44.240 Up in northern California, Uncle Charlie talking and playing the guitar, 1:15:45.520 --> 1:15:48.120 and he brought us to his house and he said, 1:15:48.120 --> 1:15:50.040 I want to play you guys something, and we little 1:15:50.160 --> 1:15:53.200 joint pass it around, lowered the lights, and Bill had 1:15:53.240 --> 1:15:57.640 this amazing you know. He had a great stereo and 1:15:57.680 --> 1:16:00.240 I know you're a lover of this stuff, the ack 1:16:00.320 --> 1:16:05.000 Apps voice of the theater speakers, and we're just like 1:16:05.120 --> 1:16:07.880 leaning back in the chair like the old jbl ad, 1:16:07.960 --> 1:16:12.000 you know. And he played he played Uncle Charlie into Mr. 1:16:12.120 --> 1:16:15.639 Bo Jangles, this guy talking and then a dog starts 1:16:15.640 --> 1:16:18.519 singing and then he cuts right to that boom ba 1:16:18.560 --> 1:16:22.559 dabba dabba guitar figure and we're like in tears. This 1:16:22.640 --> 1:16:25.599 is like I don't know how he came up with it, 1:16:25.640 --> 1:16:28.519 but it was a genius move. So we love it, 1:16:28.520 --> 1:16:30.599 and we're like thinking, we're thinking, but yeah, that's not 1:16:30.680 --> 1:16:32.960 the hit. It's gonna be some in Jelly's Blues, or 1:16:33.000 --> 1:16:35.559 it's gonna be house A Through Corner, or it's gonna 1:16:35.600 --> 1:16:38.360 be Ray Van. So we put our single out. We 1:16:38.400 --> 1:16:40.400 put out Shelley's Blues. I think it was the first single, 1:16:42.080 --> 1:16:45.200 and it's going up the charts. That's doing pretty pretty good. 1:16:45.200 --> 1:16:47.920 And now we started touring. We're touring on We're playing 1:16:47.960 --> 1:16:52.519 college campuses. Man, I just watched that Carlin documented I 1:16:52.600 --> 1:16:55.240 hadn't know if you saw it or not. Oh man, 1:16:55.479 --> 1:16:58.439 huge fan of George's, but in that moment that came, 1:16:58.479 --> 1:17:00.320 you know, when he's like, I don't want us saying 1:17:01.200 --> 1:17:06.120 to a bunch of disinterested people eat eating their dinners 1:17:06.320 --> 1:17:09.760 and drinking cocktails in these buttoned up, you know kind 1:17:09.760 --> 1:17:14.680 of casinos or dinner theaters. I want to play two 1:17:14.720 --> 1:17:16.559 kids going. I want to play the kids that are 1:17:16.600 --> 1:17:19.880 like us, you know, they were the same sensibility. So 1:17:19.920 --> 1:17:25.640 we started playing college campuses and these folks are loving us, 1:17:25.640 --> 1:17:28.839 and we're like, we found this audience. The record starts selling, 1:17:29.400 --> 1:17:31.800 but the single starting to lose its legs a little bit. 1:17:32.320 --> 1:17:36.160 All of a sudden, the station in Shreveport, Louisiana, late 1:17:36.240 --> 1:17:40.040 night Chuck starts playing Mr. Bo Jangles and the phones 1:17:40.120 --> 1:17:43.040 light up. These people want to hear this song. They're 1:17:43.080 --> 1:17:48.360 just like, you're regardless of the fact that's a four 1:17:48.439 --> 1:17:52.599 minute waltz, can't dance to it about an old guy 1:17:52.640 --> 1:17:57.320 and a dog. It's it's landing, it's resonating with people. 1:17:57.720 --> 1:18:01.240 Super compelling, and we get this call. Then it starts 1:18:01.280 --> 1:18:04.200 spreading in these other FM stations again late night where 1:18:04.200 --> 1:18:07.719 it's free form radio, they start playing it. Record Comany 1:18:07.800 --> 1:18:11.320 calls us, we're gonna pull Shelley's Blues and you're We're 1:18:11.360 --> 1:18:13.720 like what, and yeah, we're gonna put out Mr. Bo 1:18:13.840 --> 1:18:18.439 Jangles and we're going, oh geez, we're screwed. They're never 1:18:18.479 --> 1:18:21.759 gonna and we will love the song, make no mistake 1:18:21.840 --> 1:18:24.799 about that. Well, we'll figure our careers over their planning. 1:18:25.520 --> 1:18:31.000 They're they're gonna go with this, you know, this slow 1:18:31.520 --> 1:18:35.760 song and story song. People have to pay attention. We 1:18:35.760 --> 1:18:38.280 were so wrong, you know, as my wife likes to say, 1:18:38.560 --> 1:18:42.759 we had our elbows on the pulse of America. Totally 1:18:42.800 --> 1:18:47.160 missed it. So they put it out. Things stayed on 1:18:47.200 --> 1:18:50.200 the charts for several months, had slow burned, but a 1:18:50.320 --> 1:18:53.040 good in the best kind of way, you know, slowly 1:18:53.080 --> 1:18:56.160 going up the charts. Got up to number nine, stayed 1:18:56.200 --> 1:18:58.800 there for a couple of weeks. Really actually, I mean 1:18:58.880 --> 1:19:02.320 really the biggest single ever, had sold a million copies. 1:19:03.160 --> 1:19:05.880 Finally got to talk to Jerry Jeff on the telephone 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:09.400 one night. You know, we're all drunk and you know, 1:19:09.680 --> 1:19:14.360 backslapping on the phone. He decided to move to Austin, Texas. 1:19:14.520 --> 1:19:17.840 I think he felt like this kind of this gave 1:19:17.960 --> 1:19:22.559 him another It really turned up his self confidence and 1:19:22.640 --> 1:19:25.360 it was happening, you know. I think he was on 1:19:25.360 --> 1:19:26.800 his way to l A. And he made a left 1:19:26.840 --> 1:19:29.400 turn and went to Austin. And the rest is Austin 1:19:29.560 --> 1:19:32.600 history for sure. And we became buddies. We played a 1:19:32.640 --> 1:19:37.080 bunch over the years. Love playing with Jerry Jeff. But yeah, there, 1:19:37.120 --> 1:19:39.599 it was there. It was that album and you know, 1:19:39.800 --> 1:19:42.320 and that led to other stuff down the road for us. 1:19:43.000 --> 1:19:45.400 Um So how do you ultimately put together? Will the 1:19:45.439 --> 1:19:49.920 circle be unbroken? Direct link to Mr bo Jangles. We're 1:19:49.960 --> 1:19:53.320 playing these tours and uh, we start playing in the 1:19:53.360 --> 1:19:55.320 South and we're all kind of kids, you know, long 1:19:55.400 --> 1:19:58.280 haired kids from l A. We're going are They're gonna 1:19:58.320 --> 1:20:00.200 beat the ship out of us? Down there is like 1:20:00.320 --> 1:20:04.519 easy Rider. I was like, no, there was some of 1:20:04.520 --> 1:20:09.519 that going on, and make no mistake, but uh, we're 1:20:09.520 --> 1:20:13.439 playing these college campuses and it was so cool. So 1:20:13.479 --> 1:20:19.520 we're playing Vanderbilt University and there's this kid named Gary Scruggs. 1:20:19.520 --> 1:20:23.800 Gary Scruggs was Earl Scruggs as oldest son. He and 1:20:23.880 --> 1:20:27.920 his his brother Stephen Randy, they're hearing Mr. Bo Jangles 1:20:27.960 --> 1:20:30.240 on the radio and there they become fans of the band. 1:20:30.760 --> 1:20:33.040 Sees the Uncle Charlie album, pulls it out of the 1:20:33.040 --> 1:20:36.439 bend and he's looking at the back of the record 1:20:36.479 --> 1:20:41.960 and he goes, WHOA, there's Randy Lynn Rag that my 1:20:42.040 --> 1:20:46.639 dad wrote about my little brother Randy. This instrumental takes 1:20:46.680 --> 1:20:49.880 it home. They love the album. So to get his 1:20:50.040 --> 1:20:53.320 dad interested, he plays Randy Lynn Ragg for for Earl. 1:20:54.439 --> 1:20:57.479 Earl hears it and it's like that boy can play 1:20:57.520 --> 1:21:00.360 that five string and that band's sounds pretty good. Never 1:21:00.400 --> 1:21:05.360 heard a washboard on it, Glad Scruggs record. So with 1:21:05.479 --> 1:21:10.120 that as the hook, Gary, who knew the dean at Vanderbilt, 1:21:10.840 --> 1:21:12.439 set up a meet and greet for us and the 1:21:12.439 --> 1:21:17.760 Scruggs family and John McEwen, especially as just shaken in 1:21:17.840 --> 1:21:20.920 his boots so stoked that he's gonna meet Earl Scruggs, 1:21:21.000 --> 1:21:24.720 but also his hero is gonna be watching, so we 1:21:24.800 --> 1:21:27.799 knew they were there. We played our set. We actually 1:21:28.439 --> 1:21:31.600 killed it. It was a really good set, went backstage, 1:21:31.760 --> 1:21:34.080 toweled off a little bit and in comes to Scruggs 1:21:34.080 --> 1:21:39.639 family and we're hanging out and immediately this is like 1:21:40.240 --> 1:21:44.960 long lost family these folks. The bond the friendships became 1:21:45.040 --> 1:21:49.000 lifelong friendships. From that moment, we you know, finally talked 1:21:49.040 --> 1:21:51.200 to Earl into playing a song on the five string. 1:21:51.280 --> 1:21:55.519 And it was a great night, you know, and Louise 1:21:55.680 --> 1:21:59.400 Louise Scruggs, one of the great figures in the music business, 1:21:59.680 --> 1:22:04.080 went the pioneering women in the music business, and who 1:22:04.160 --> 1:22:07.800 was Earl's manager as well. You know, we just had 1:22:07.840 --> 1:22:10.439 a great time. And when we bonded on music and 1:22:10.720 --> 1:22:13.400 Earl had just started the Earl Scruggs review had left 1:22:13.479 --> 1:22:17.479 Lester Flat Flat Scruggs had broken up, and Earls wants 1:22:17.520 --> 1:22:19.560 to play country rock kind of you know, with the 1:22:19.600 --> 1:22:24.639 blue gass sensibility as well. So he's on his way 1:22:24.640 --> 1:22:26.680 out the door after a couple hours of hanging out 1:22:26.680 --> 1:22:28.600 and he says, well, if you boys would ever like 1:22:28.720 --> 1:22:30.600 to do some recording, I'd love to get in the 1:22:30.640 --> 1:22:34.760 studio with you. He closes the door and we're what 1:22:34.960 --> 1:22:40.160 just happened. Earl Scruggs invited us to record. You know. 1:22:40.160 --> 1:22:42.520 It turned out that he was friends with the birds already, 1:22:42.520 --> 1:22:47.160 and you know, the music community in Nashville was not 1:22:47.840 --> 1:22:52.479 his conservative and if you're painting in broad strokes, sure, 1:22:52.840 --> 1:22:55.120 it seemed like everything was Roy Acuff and the grand 1:22:55.120 --> 1:22:57.280 old opry, you know, and it was kind of the 1:22:57.280 --> 1:23:00.599 country polity and thing. As far as country music mainstream 1:23:00.680 --> 1:23:03.720 was going on, it was pretty commercial, not a lot 1:23:03.760 --> 1:23:09.760 of acoustic based stuff. A few months later, um Bill 1:23:09.840 --> 1:23:11.599 McKuen called each of us and he said, I got 1:23:11.680 --> 1:23:17.120 an idea. He said, what if we take Earl's idea 1:23:17.160 --> 1:23:20.200 of you guys recording with him and expand the concept 1:23:20.800 --> 1:23:25.040 to where it's you guys and your influences get in 1:23:25.080 --> 1:23:28.960 the studio, we're the band, and we're playing with guys 1:23:29.000 --> 1:23:33.320 like Girl. We started talking about the wet if Stock, Watson, Merle, Travis, 1:23:33.360 --> 1:23:36.439 who we already knew because of our jug band days. 1:23:36.479 --> 1:23:38.680 We opened from Merle at the Ash Grove in l A. 1:23:39.800 --> 1:23:44.080 And uh, you know, these different ideas. We wanted to 1:23:44.080 --> 1:23:46.120 get Bill Monroe he did not want to play on 1:23:46.160 --> 1:23:49.639 the record, and Bill McEwen and John, both of them 1:23:49.640 --> 1:23:53.000 were fans of the great Lucrass singer Jimmy Martin. So 1:23:53.040 --> 1:23:55.000 he said, well, let's let's try to get Jimmy Martin. 1:23:56.560 --> 1:24:00.320 So me and John were we read our bands moved 1:24:00.320 --> 1:24:03.400 from l A to Colorado. Now this is early seventy one, 1:24:03.600 --> 1:24:06.719 Spring of seventy one. The Earl Scruggs review is playing 1:24:06.760 --> 1:24:11.160 a club called to Lagi in uh In Bowlder, Colorado. 1:24:12.000 --> 1:24:16.640 And I was gonna say, your buddy Chuck Moore as 1:24:16.680 --> 1:24:19.040 your friend, and I love Chucky, one of my one 1:24:19.040 --> 1:24:21.680 of my favorite people in the world. First time we 1:24:21.720 --> 1:24:25.080 met Chuck, he's running in the place Earl Scruggs reviews 1:24:25.120 --> 1:24:27.880 playing there. We'd already played there some so we were pals. 1:24:28.000 --> 1:24:29.760 We could walk in for free. In the back door. 1:24:30.400 --> 1:24:32.599 Earl's playing there. We watched the said it was great. 1:24:33.080 --> 1:24:35.519 John offers to drive Earl back to the hotel. I'm 1:24:35.520 --> 1:24:38.040 in the back seat of the car. John turns to 1:24:38.080 --> 1:24:41.840 Earl and said, says haltingly because he's so nervous. He's like, 1:24:42.080 --> 1:24:47.360 would you would you consider actually playing on our record? 1:24:48.560 --> 1:24:51.720 And Earle took a second and said I'd be proud to. 1:24:52.640 --> 1:24:57.519 And we're like dumb struck. Go back to the hotel, 1:24:57.600 --> 1:24:59.360 hang out with Earl and the kids against some more 1:25:00.000 --> 1:25:03.120 picked till the wee hours I went home, John stuck 1:25:03.160 --> 1:25:07.519 around for a while longer. I think over the course, now, 1:25:07.640 --> 1:25:09.280 this is what Gary told me, and this is what 1:25:09.360 --> 1:25:11.360 Earle actually wrote in his book. He said, over the 1:25:11.360 --> 1:25:15.280 course of the evening, Earl mentioned why not can get 1:25:15.360 --> 1:25:17.920 some of the other old timers. This is before Bill 1:25:17.960 --> 1:25:20.200 had called us, by the way, so I don't know 1:25:20.720 --> 1:25:23.559 who had the idea. It doesn't really matter at this point, 1:25:23.600 --> 1:25:26.920 does it. But what does matter is that Earl agreed 1:25:26.960 --> 1:25:29.800 to do it. And he was so cool and so 1:25:29.880 --> 1:25:35.760 gracious and so forward thinking in terms of music. So 1:25:36.000 --> 1:25:39.599 with Earl Scruggs, we had Earl in our pocket. Now. 1:25:39.880 --> 1:25:42.759 Next week John went to see Doc and Merle Watson 1:25:42.800 --> 1:25:47.160 at the same club in Boulder, Too Loggy. John asked 1:25:47.200 --> 1:25:50.960 Doc if he'd be interested. He said, hey, Doc, we're 1:25:50.960 --> 1:25:54.720 doing a record with Earl Scruggs, which how would you feel? 1:25:54.760 --> 1:25:58.080 And Doc was like, yeah, anything if Earl's on and 1:25:58.120 --> 1:26:01.320 I'm in. And to his credit, Murrell Watson, the late 1:26:01.320 --> 1:26:05.600 Great Murrell Watson, doc son great guitarist, said you know, 1:26:06.160 --> 1:26:08.320 he said, you know, Daddy, I played some of their 1:26:08.360 --> 1:26:11.360 stuff and you really like their singing as well. So 1:26:11.520 --> 1:26:14.920 again the second generation the same as it was with 1:26:15.000 --> 1:26:17.880 Earl and his family. His kids loved the band, brought 1:26:18.000 --> 1:26:22.000 him in. Doc's kid loved the band, so you got 1:26:22.040 --> 1:26:25.120 already it's we're setting kind of a tone for the record, 1:26:25.120 --> 1:26:31.040 which is this multi generational thing. After that, we got 1:26:31.080 --> 1:26:33.639 on the horn with Louise Scruggs and she and Earl 1:26:33.760 --> 1:26:38.080 authored to you know, um opened some doors for us 1:26:38.120 --> 1:26:42.080 when we came to Nashville. Meanwhile, Bill mcwhen with John 1:26:42.120 --> 1:26:44.879 and Toe went and had a meeting with our president 1:26:44.920 --> 1:26:48.200 of Liberty Records, who was a guy at that point 1:26:48.320 --> 1:26:52.120 named Mike Stewart. We got this top tanks top ten 1:26:52.240 --> 1:26:55.679 single Mr. Bo Jangles on the chart. Bill and John 1:26:55.760 --> 1:26:57.080 came in there and said, we want to cut a 1:26:57.080 --> 1:27:02.360 bluegrass record, and my set, uh okay, let me get 1:27:02.400 --> 1:27:04.960 this right. You got you don't want to follow up 1:27:05.160 --> 1:27:09.240 Uncle Charlie with a another country rock record. We do, 1:27:09.760 --> 1:27:12.080 but first we want to do this bluegrass record. And 1:27:12.120 --> 1:27:16.920 he said, well, I think the budget was like seventeen 1:27:17.000 --> 1:27:20.240 grands something and it was under twenty tho dollars. I'll 1:27:20.240 --> 1:27:24.799 give you, you you know, seventeen thousand to make the record. 1:27:25.439 --> 1:27:30.200 Odd figure and Bill and John are like done, great, 1:27:30.560 --> 1:27:33.760 So we go to Nashville. He said, I think you 1:27:33.760 --> 1:27:36.280 guys are crazy, but I trust your instincts because boj 1:27:36.320 --> 1:27:38.679 Angles is a big hit, you know, and Shelley's Blues 1:27:38.680 --> 1:27:41.920 did pretty good, and how Supo Corner did pretty good. 1:27:41.920 --> 1:27:44.479 We saw some albums and we kind of got you know, 1:27:44.680 --> 1:27:47.719 we have our foot in the door at radio now. 1:27:48.840 --> 1:27:51.800 So we went to Nashville. We we hung out with 1:27:51.800 --> 1:27:55.960 the Scruggs family. We're meeting all these great folks. Jody Mafis, 1:27:55.960 --> 1:27:59.559 who was the drummer from the Scruggs Review, his dad. 1:27:59.800 --> 1:28:03.160 His parents were Joe and Rosalie Mathis, who were legendary 1:28:03.200 --> 1:28:06.880 pickers from the Grand Old Opry and the UH and 1:28:06.920 --> 1:28:09.920 the Louisiana Hayride as well. And it was like, man, 1:28:11.200 --> 1:28:13.760 this is so cool. We're meeting all these folks who 1:28:13.760 --> 1:28:17.000 are not what we're thinking. By the way, next generation 1:28:17.040 --> 1:28:22.360 folks that pretty much invented the genre. Got to point out, 1:28:22.400 --> 1:28:26.320 this is like fifties and sixties, and they like us 1:28:26.320 --> 1:28:28.679 and they want to hang out with us. We're spending 1:28:28.800 --> 1:28:32.479 all day at the Scrugs family's house, just picking and 1:28:32.560 --> 1:28:36.679 hanging out. Meanwhile, Earls brought in the great Vassar clements 1:28:36.680 --> 1:28:39.559 on fiddle and the great Junior Husky on electric bass. 1:28:40.360 --> 1:28:45.080 Remember John Sanda too early says, who's this fiddle player? 1:28:45.200 --> 1:28:49.479 Vassar kind of name is well and he goes. Earl said, well, 1:28:49.479 --> 1:28:52.760 that's his name is Vassar Clemens. And John said was 1:28:52.800 --> 1:28:58.880 he any good? And Earl said he'll do great story 1:28:59.160 --> 1:29:01.880 and that was classic us, by the way, never lost 1:29:01.920 --> 1:29:07.960 that teenage cockiness about like so and and uh. We 1:29:08.040 --> 1:29:11.759 wanted to get the great Flatt and scrugs doboro player 1:29:12.080 --> 1:29:14.640 Josh Graves, but he was playing with Lester Flatt and 1:29:14.720 --> 1:29:17.960 Lester wouldn't let him play on the record. Unfortunately, later 1:29:18.000 --> 1:29:20.080 on we finally got to record song with Josh and 1:29:20.080 --> 1:29:25.880 went amazing. But we got uh, legendary country picker Mr 1:29:26.080 --> 1:29:28.280 Norman Blake agreed to come in and play do bro. 1:29:28.439 --> 1:29:33.639 So we got this band that includes you know, Junior 1:29:33.760 --> 1:29:38.680 on upright basse uh and Vasser on fiddle. And by 1:29:38.720 --> 1:29:41.800 the way, these guys were like again, instant pals, the 1:29:41.840 --> 1:29:45.400 coolest cats, and they they didn't you know, they thought 1:29:45.439 --> 1:29:47.160 nothing to hang in a bunch with a bunch of 1:29:47.240 --> 1:29:51.000 hippies from l A or the mountains of Colorado, and 1:29:51.080 --> 1:29:53.360 we just bonded with the music, and they were also 1:29:53.479 --> 1:29:56.360 like wise cracking guys, and most of the session guys 1:29:56.360 --> 1:29:59.479 I've ever met in life have been the funniest people 1:29:59.479 --> 1:30:04.160 I've ever met, you know. Uh, So we rehearsed for 1:30:04.200 --> 1:30:06.240 about a week. I think, you know, maybe it's I 1:30:06.400 --> 1:30:07.840 don't know, maybe it's a little shorter. We went to 1:30:07.920 --> 1:30:11.479 Jimmy Martin's house. Louis Louise Scruggs helped us get Jimmy 1:30:11.520 --> 1:30:15.240 on board, and uh we went to his house and 1:30:15.320 --> 1:30:17.800 learned how to sink some proper bluegrass harmony for the 1:30:17.840 --> 1:30:20.680 sessions that we were going to do with him. And 1:30:21.560 --> 1:30:24.120 here comes Monday, and we got in the studio and 1:30:24.160 --> 1:30:26.960 we recorded. I guess I think for five days. I 1:30:27.200 --> 1:30:31.160 believe it was all you know for audio files. We 1:30:31.280 --> 1:30:36.880 recorded quarter inch thirty ips live analog tape and it 1:30:37.040 --> 1:30:39.720 sounded like a million it was so good. But you 1:30:39.920 --> 1:30:42.680 burned through tape quickly that way, and tape wasn't cheap 1:30:42.720 --> 1:30:45.600 even back then. We're at Woodland Sounds Studios, one of 1:30:45.600 --> 1:30:49.960 the great studios, legendary, still there today, thank goodness, because 1:30:50.560 --> 1:30:53.679 Gillian Welsh and David Rawlings saved the place. They bought 1:30:53.680 --> 1:30:55.280 it when it looked like it was going to get 1:30:55.400 --> 1:30:57.880 hit by the wreck and ball. God bless them and 1:30:57.960 --> 1:31:01.920 I love them so much. Um So we walked into 1:31:01.960 --> 1:31:05.559 Woodlands set up and man, we set up set us 1:31:05.600 --> 1:31:08.240 up in a circle so there weren't a bunch of 1:31:09.320 --> 1:31:13.120 baffles separating the musicians. You know, typically you don't want 1:31:13.160 --> 1:31:15.240 that bleed. You don't want to hear the banjo in 1:31:15.280 --> 1:31:18.639 the bass players Mike, or the washboard and the guitar 1:31:18.680 --> 1:31:21.120 players Mike. But we would just go, okay, Jeff face 1:31:21.200 --> 1:31:24.479 the wall when you play the washboard. You know. We 1:31:24.600 --> 1:31:27.160 figured it all out and it sounded so good. The 1:31:27.200 --> 1:31:32.600 little the cross talk between instruments actually added to the 1:31:32.600 --> 1:31:35.120 the musical integrity of the record. Plus we could see 1:31:35.120 --> 1:31:39.479 each other, so this is like backporch stuff and it 1:31:39.600 --> 1:31:42.640 was so much fun and visual accues. We're mixing the 1:31:42.680 --> 1:31:47.240 record as as musicians, not as you know, the mixed 1:31:47.240 --> 1:31:51.400 down later and Bill McEwen ran a separate tape machine 1:31:51.720 --> 1:31:56.240 that caught all captured all those conversations, all those you know, 1:31:56.400 --> 1:32:00.720 starts and stops, and you know, we we recorded all 1:32:00.760 --> 1:32:03.080 this music and jump back on the bus a few 1:32:03.160 --> 1:32:14.080 days later and left it to build all those tapes Okay, 1:32:14.120 --> 1:32:17.400 it ends up coming out as a triple records set. 1:32:18.120 --> 1:32:20.800 Trying to think would even have that many records? All 1:32:21.240 --> 1:32:25.000 all things must pass? How did the record company agree 1:32:25.040 --> 1:32:28.600 to have three records? And then the record started to 1:32:28.640 --> 1:32:31.680 do this slow burn? What was the perspective from the inside. 1:32:32.200 --> 1:32:36.040 From the inside, they were still you know, they and 1:32:36.120 --> 1:32:38.640 we did manage I might add to get Roy a 1:32:38.720 --> 1:32:41.040 coff on board, by the way, after he heard some 1:32:41.080 --> 1:32:43.320 of the music he was in, so like, yeah, we 1:32:43.439 --> 1:32:46.679 got the king of country music and mother Mabel Carter 1:32:46.760 --> 1:32:51.280 who came in with Earl scrugs that that connection. So 1:32:51.360 --> 1:32:54.559 the record companies like, yeah, okay, it's a bluegrass album. 1:32:54.600 --> 1:32:59.880 They asked, got three five songs as pretty long, live 1:33:00.000 --> 1:33:03.760 out of talking, a lot of blue grass, a lot 1:33:03.760 --> 1:33:09.439 of where's the hit, no hits? Well, so Bill did. 1:33:09.560 --> 1:33:18.000 They allowed him the latitude to go get a ah, 1:33:18.479 --> 1:33:20.759 to go do some mock that you get to show 1:33:20.800 --> 1:33:23.439 them some of the artwork that he was doing with Dean, 1:33:23.520 --> 1:33:26.240 our friend Dean Torrance, who know Dean from Dana Jeane 1:33:26.280 --> 1:33:29.719 Beach Boys, all that great guy, amazing graphic artists as well. 1:33:30.160 --> 1:33:32.479 So Dean and Bill got in there and started designing 1:33:32.479 --> 1:33:35.559 this stuff, and it was like, I think he showed 1:33:35.600 --> 1:33:38.360 them kind of a rough. He played him the record, 1:33:38.360 --> 1:33:40.880 but showed him a rough of the visuals for the record. 1:33:41.880 --> 1:33:45.680 And they said, okay again because we're burning it up. 1:33:45.720 --> 1:33:48.599 We're selling tickets in concert. You know, our our rep 1:33:48.680 --> 1:33:52.840 is still pretty good. And they said, fine, as long 1:33:52.880 --> 1:33:56.559 as you deliver another studio record within the next six months. 1:33:56.640 --> 1:34:01.280 And we did. But this, you know, meantime several months 1:34:01.320 --> 1:34:03.920 go by. This is like we've gone from summer into 1:34:03.960 --> 1:34:07.200 the summer of seventy one to the spring of seventy two, 1:34:07.240 --> 1:34:11.439 and Bill after months of you know, putting together the 1:34:11.479 --> 1:34:16.120 package and do all that editing, of conversations that went 1:34:16.280 --> 1:34:21.240 like beautifully you know, gosh, I mean seamlessly into the 1:34:21.280 --> 1:34:25.880 tracks on the record. Uh, it finally comes out and 1:34:26.720 --> 1:34:30.160 like you said, slow Burn, that's a record literally that 1:34:31.160 --> 1:34:34.040 I think we took out an adder two and billboard 1:34:34.120 --> 1:34:36.560 or you know what a cash box Back then, I 1:34:36.600 --> 1:34:39.479 don't think radio and Records was even up and running yet. 1:34:39.600 --> 1:34:45.120 Who's cash cash box and Billboard? And the f M 1:34:45.240 --> 1:34:49.559 DJ's college stations especially who had nobody's telling him what 1:34:49.640 --> 1:34:53.320 to play? They started playing Doc Watson doing Tennessee stud. 1:34:53.400 --> 1:34:56.559 You know, that's my favorite you know what, I knew 1:34:56.600 --> 1:34:59.080 that and it's one of my favorite songs of the record. 1:34:59.280 --> 1:35:01.680 And if you can imagine, I mean, I gotta just 1:35:01.720 --> 1:35:05.080 say I told you earlier. You know. I'm I'm fifteen, 1:35:05.160 --> 1:35:08.280 sixteen years old listening to Doc Watson play the guitar 1:35:08.320 --> 1:35:13.120 and sing lifetime hero of Mine and I'm leaning visual 1:35:13.160 --> 1:35:16.439 literally we didn't have a separate Mike. I'm leaning over 1:35:16.560 --> 1:35:22.160 Doc's shoulder singing harmony on Tennessee stud. He's like, where's 1:35:22.200 --> 1:35:26.880 that harmony? Man? You know now, I'm like over here, ah, 1:35:26.920 --> 1:35:29.280 you know, and that's I got that. Such a great track. 1:35:29.360 --> 1:35:34.640 Jimmy Fadden invassor Clemence at fiddle. That's amazing what they 1:35:34.640 --> 1:35:38.360 played on that. So college picks up on it. Yeah, 1:35:38.400 --> 1:35:40.240 they pick up on that, and they're playing you know, 1:35:40.439 --> 1:35:44.800 Lost Highway that was feature Jimmy it Wasson and and 1:35:44.800 --> 1:35:48.320 and Honky talking with Fadden and they're playing all these 1:35:48.360 --> 1:35:52.160 great scrub stuff Nashville Blues, you know, of course, the 1:35:52.160 --> 1:35:54.640 title track Will the Circle Be Unbroken? I saw the 1:35:54.760 --> 1:35:59.400 Light with Roy Acuff and people are listen, man, if 1:35:59.400 --> 1:36:02.000 I had a any for every and people from the 1:36:02.120 --> 1:36:07.639 rock and roll side years later. I didn't like country music, 1:36:08.040 --> 1:36:11.280 you know, the southern kids, that was their parents music. 1:36:11.800 --> 1:36:15.439 So they just, you know, they just didn't want to know. 1:36:15.520 --> 1:36:19.360 You a little rebellion, rock and roll, that's ours. Country music, 1:36:19.640 --> 1:36:24.400 bluegrass that's yours. Right here come these long Hairs all 1:36:24.400 --> 1:36:28.640 of a sudden. The music looks like the Buffalo Springfield, 1:36:29.320 --> 1:36:31.960 but it sounds like this other stuff. And here's these 1:36:32.000 --> 1:36:36.280 young guys singing and playing along. Somehow, whatever influence we 1:36:36.400 --> 1:36:41.640 might have had to help sort of expose those artists. Look, 1:36:41.240 --> 1:36:45.639 I'm not stupider. Yeah, I'm humbled enough to know that 1:36:46.160 --> 1:36:49.920 mother maybe ill Carter kids, it's Earl scruggskis is roy Aka. 1:36:51.240 --> 1:36:54.240 But you know they a lot of the younger generation 1:36:54.360 --> 1:36:58.879 weren't into that music. Doc Watson's folk boom career had 1:36:58.680 --> 1:37:03.519 had cooled off a little it. But man, I'm so 1:37:03.600 --> 1:37:06.599 proud after the fact that that that might have had 1:37:06.640 --> 1:37:10.520 a hand in that and also expanded the world of bluegrass. 1:37:10.800 --> 1:37:13.439 Those festivals changed, and we can talk about that later 1:37:13.479 --> 1:37:17.400 if you want, But back then bluegrass festivals were strictly traditional. 1:37:18.360 --> 1:37:21.200 Then acts like the Earl Scruggs Review, the Dirt Band, 1:37:21.280 --> 1:37:25.679 John Hartford New Grass Revival. They start showing up. It's 1:37:25.720 --> 1:37:29.280 like the dope smokers showed up, you know, or at 1:37:29.360 --> 1:37:33.800 least started smoking dope in front of people. There's some 1:37:33.840 --> 1:37:38.960 blue grass bands that okay, let's jump forward. You ultimately 1:37:39.000 --> 1:37:43.080 do two more of those, uh will the circle be unbroken? Records? 1:37:43.479 --> 1:37:46.840 You then start to have soft rock success at the 1:37:46.960 --> 1:37:51.240 end of the seventies. My favorite of your recorded songs, 1:37:51.280 --> 1:37:54.280 you have Harmony, which I really love your a co 1:37:54.439 --> 1:37:58.320 writer on. Then how do you decide to have go 1:37:58.479 --> 1:38:03.320 to Nashville, cracked the country market, have a string of 1:38:03.439 --> 1:38:07.360 hit and then ultimately go to Russia. That's a lot, 1:38:07.479 --> 1:38:10.559 that's unpacking a lot, but quickly I should I should 1:38:10.800 --> 1:38:12.960 give a shout out to Bob Carpenter. But yeah, my 1:38:13.000 --> 1:38:15.720 co writer on Harmony, and I think it's that's the 1:38:15.760 --> 1:38:18.559 first time you ever wrote about us. My buddy George 1:38:18.560 --> 1:38:22.040 Massenberg came into the studio and said, do you read 1:38:22.040 --> 1:38:24.400 the Leftist Letter? And I said, what's that? And he 1:38:24.479 --> 1:38:26.840 showed it to me and I subscribed, And you know, 1:38:27.560 --> 1:38:29.679 and you were so kind. That wasn't even a single 1:38:29.680 --> 1:38:32.960 lot I don't think should have been. And I wrote that, Yeah, 1:38:33.280 --> 1:38:35.800 very proud of that song Nicolette Larson bless her Heart. 1:38:36.000 --> 1:38:38.800 She sang on that as well. But yeah, so that 1:38:38.880 --> 1:38:40.920 was on the Make a Little Magic album. We did that, 1:38:41.000 --> 1:38:43.880 and Nikki sang on that, and we we'd had that 1:38:43.960 --> 1:38:48.799 hit American Dream with Linda. Well, both those songs. This matters, 1:38:49.000 --> 1:38:51.200 this part of it. They became pop is both of them. 1:38:51.240 --> 1:38:54.000 It was like our first big hits since bo j Angles. 1:38:55.240 --> 1:38:58.240 They also charted on the country charts without any real 1:38:58.320 --> 1:39:01.240 effort on our part, but they I guess, you know, 1:39:01.960 --> 1:39:04.880 the country radio was now opening up a bit. There 1:39:04.880 --> 1:39:10.519 were bands like Alabama. They were making a big splasher radio. 1:39:10.600 --> 1:39:13.640 And I remember somebody playing me an Alabama record and 1:39:13.640 --> 1:39:16.560 I'm like, yeah, I get that. It's got sort of 1:39:16.600 --> 1:39:19.880 an Eagles vibe or a dirt band vibe or Burrito's vibe. 1:39:20.120 --> 1:39:23.800 It's the California. It's the California country rock that we 1:39:23.880 --> 1:39:27.040 were playing in the seventies. Only now they're making these 1:39:27.040 --> 1:39:31.439 records on music Row. So we went, we went to Nashville. 1:39:31.560 --> 1:39:36.160 We made a record with a great producer, Mr Norbert Putnam, 1:39:36.439 --> 1:39:39.960 who had done you know who was a legendary session 1:39:40.040 --> 1:39:42.479 guy here for years. He was part of that you 1:39:42.479 --> 1:39:46.320 know the Nashville Cats, the early six one five guys, 1:39:46.400 --> 1:39:49.960 you know. And he had produced our buddy Jimmy Buffett 1:39:50.040 --> 1:39:52.280 and and our friend Dan Vogelberg as well, made great 1:39:52.320 --> 1:39:55.880 records with them. So we cut that. We cut the 1:39:55.960 --> 1:39:58.400 song Dance Little Gene that was written by my buddy 1:39:58.479 --> 1:40:03.840 Jimmy Ivison. Then we went in the studio also with 1:40:04.360 --> 1:40:07.679 Richard Landis to cut some more tracks. Three more tracks 1:40:07.720 --> 1:40:10.799 cut in l A. So we got in the studio 1:40:10.840 --> 1:40:12.880 cut some stuff and he had just had this big 1:40:12.960 --> 1:40:17.440 hit of what was the song, Oh Angel of the Morning, 1:40:17.479 --> 1:40:19.559 Oh yeah, God, And that's a great record, by the way, 1:40:19.560 --> 1:40:23.000 I love Juice Newton Killer made a brilliant record on it, 1:40:23.479 --> 1:40:25.600 and he kind of using that formula with us. And 1:40:25.640 --> 1:40:27.400 we did the song called Shot full of Love that 1:40:27.479 --> 1:40:31.360 you said recorded. We did Andrew Gold song called Heartaches 1:40:31.400 --> 1:40:34.680 and Heartaches. We did a again. This is where we're 1:40:34.680 --> 1:40:37.320 getting at least have an opinion about the cover songs. 1:40:37.560 --> 1:40:41.760 Um Marshall Crenshaw song called Mary Anne. We cut those 1:40:41.800 --> 1:40:45.599 three songs, went back to Nashville. And this is, by 1:40:45.640 --> 1:40:47.919 the way, this is now we're still on Liberty Records, 1:40:48.000 --> 1:40:49.880 so we're not we're getting we got the guys in 1:40:50.040 --> 1:40:51.800 l A that are kind of calling the shots for 1:40:51.840 --> 1:40:54.439 their country music career. So they want to put out 1:40:54.439 --> 1:40:58.520 the Richard Landis stuff, you know, sort of in partnership 1:40:58.600 --> 1:41:04.400 with the the that which is now Liberty Nashville. Uh. 1:41:04.520 --> 1:41:06.720 And we didn't really know those folks. Great folks, Jim 1:41:06.760 --> 1:41:10.599 Fogel song, great record guy. So they put out Shot 1:41:10.640 --> 1:41:12.800 full of Love. Then it becomes the top fifteen hit 1:41:12.880 --> 1:41:14.799 for the band, and we're like, this is pretty cool. 1:41:15.520 --> 1:41:19.160 But then same thing happened, like Mr. Bo Jangles Station 1:41:19.240 --> 1:41:22.559 starts spinning Dance Little Jeane, which was a song that 1:41:23.400 --> 1:41:25.880 was kind of like buried in the record. So they 1:41:25.920 --> 1:41:29.479 started playing Dance Little Gene. But they thought, well, maybe 1:41:29.520 --> 1:41:31.759 we need to remix it and put a steel guitar 1:41:31.920 --> 1:41:35.040 on it, which we loved. And our friend Larry Sasser, 1:41:36.040 --> 1:41:38.639 who was a great session guy, came in and put 1:41:38.720 --> 1:41:41.839 and put steel on it, and we did a remix 1:41:41.920 --> 1:41:45.040 with these two young producers, Paul Whorley and Marshall Morgan. 1:41:46.320 --> 1:41:48.920 They put they took that version of Dance Little Gene, 1:41:49.000 --> 1:41:51.439 went to radio with it and became the Dirt Band's 1:41:51.479 --> 1:41:56.760 first top ten country single, and at that point Chuck Morris, 1:41:57.160 --> 1:42:02.240 uh had become our manager, and he's he become buddies 1:42:02.280 --> 1:42:05.000 with Jim Ed Norman who was running Warner Brothers. And 1:42:05.040 --> 1:42:10.000 we're like, oh my gosh, finally because we were the 1:42:10.680 --> 1:42:14.160 bunny was the we idolized the bunny. You know all 1:42:14.160 --> 1:42:17.920 those you know, all those acts on Warner Brothers that 1:42:17.960 --> 1:42:21.639 we were crazy about, including Ray Cooter and your Bonny 1:42:21.800 --> 1:42:25.559 Rate and Jah in the early days, uh, you know, 1:42:25.600 --> 1:42:29.280 in the offshoots everything, everything that was on Electra and 1:42:29.640 --> 1:42:34.200 you know later on uh Asylum. So and here's Jim 1:42:34.320 --> 1:42:38.120 Ed Doorman, who I met through my new friend Don 1:42:38.160 --> 1:42:41.760 Handily years ago. And so Jim Ed been you know, 1:42:41.840 --> 1:42:44.559 he'd been arranging strings with those guys and he came 1:42:44.600 --> 1:42:48.560 from Texas when they were called Shiloh, that band California. 1:42:49.240 --> 1:42:52.400 So Jim as the record company prisoner, Like how cool? 1:42:53.240 --> 1:42:55.720 What could be cooler? And then our new buddies, Caul 1:42:55.760 --> 1:42:58.960 Warley and Marshall Morgan, we're going to produce us. We 1:42:59.080 --> 1:43:02.200 got in the studio and had a man an awesome 1:43:02.240 --> 1:43:05.640 string of top ten singles with those guys. It was 1:43:05.680 --> 1:43:09.240 like one after the other, you know. Unfortunately, Warner Brothers 1:43:09.280 --> 1:43:12.439 never wanted to go deeper than three singles, which was 1:43:12.760 --> 1:43:15.759 I think kind of stupid. You know. Joe Glani changed 1:43:15.800 --> 1:43:18.160 that later with our c A and they went five deep, 1:43:18.439 --> 1:43:20.000 because you make an album and they want you to 1:43:20.040 --> 1:43:24.479 record five singles and then the rest is yours. So 1:43:25.280 --> 1:43:28.120 the other two songs that didn't get recorded, we're typically 1:43:28.160 --> 1:43:32.160 stuff that those are radio songs, you know, again the 1:43:32.200 --> 1:43:34.639 record bills. But I love those albums that we made 1:43:34.680 --> 1:43:37.320 with with Marshall and Paul and there, you know, we're 1:43:37.360 --> 1:43:42.080 recording our own stuff and having you know, we're rolling 1:43:42.160 --> 1:43:45.800 in it. We'd never had this consistency at radio ever 1:43:46.360 --> 1:43:49.439 because rock and roll that's a that's a fish, that's 1:43:49.479 --> 1:43:53.200 a fickle mistress there. You know, like Chris Rock said, 1:43:53.400 --> 1:43:58.440 here today, gone today. You're having all the success in Nashville, 1:43:58.640 --> 1:44:01.439 how do you end up going to Rush show? Well, 1:44:01.520 --> 1:44:06.800 Russia happened just before Nashville. We were a man, this 1:44:06.880 --> 1:44:09.320 is so strange. We were we were in the middle 1:44:09.360 --> 1:44:11.800 of that sort of you'll call it yacht rock now 1:44:11.840 --> 1:44:14.120 if you choose to period where we had to make 1:44:14.160 --> 1:44:17.760 a little magic and American dream and you know, we 1:44:17.880 --> 1:44:21.200 all had sun tans and Hawaiian shirts on our records 1:44:21.200 --> 1:44:25.479 and we were pretty swave trying to emulate Don Johnson, 1:44:25.560 --> 1:44:29.800 I think more than you know anybody else as far 1:44:29.840 --> 1:44:33.400 as the visuals went. We uh, so we're making these 1:44:33.400 --> 1:44:36.680 records and but we're still playing the same circuit. You know. 1:44:36.720 --> 1:44:39.400 People were fans of the Dirt Band from you know, 1:44:39.439 --> 1:44:41.560 not only American Dream and make a Little Magic, but 1:44:41.720 --> 1:44:47.240 also from uh uh, the country rock stuff. So we're playing. 1:44:47.920 --> 1:44:54.439 We were playing in Washington, d c h. And we 1:44:54.560 --> 1:44:56.800 get it. We play there and a couple of days 1:44:56.920 --> 1:44:59.360 later we got this. Our manager Bill got a phone 1:44:59.360 --> 1:45:02.280 call from somebody said they were from the State Department 1:45:03.400 --> 1:45:06.599 and he just laughed and hung up on him because 1:45:06.640 --> 1:45:10.080 we're right, you got a wrong number or you're pranking us. 1:45:11.280 --> 1:45:14.479 So they keep doing it. He keeps hanging out. Finally 1:45:14.800 --> 1:45:17.080 accept the phone and said what do you want? And 1:45:17.120 --> 1:45:20.880 they said, we represent the State Department and we are 1:45:21.000 --> 1:45:26.360 part of a cultural cultural exchange program and we're interested 1:45:26.400 --> 1:45:29.400 in the Dirt Band doing a tour of the Soviet Union. 1:45:29.400 --> 1:45:34.240 This is sevent and we kind of said why us 1:45:34.240 --> 1:45:36.280 because they looked at a bunch of acts that Beach 1:45:36.280 --> 1:45:38.680 Boys wanted to go there, and they were like that 1:45:38.800 --> 1:45:40.559 we could think of a lot of examples that might 1:45:40.600 --> 1:45:42.479 have made more sense. But what they liked about our 1:45:42.520 --> 1:45:45.840 band was we covered a lot of music. There was 1:45:45.920 --> 1:45:48.320 rock and roll, but there was also some country music, 1:45:48.439 --> 1:45:52.080 you know, multi culturists. We had an African American in 1:45:52.080 --> 1:45:55.880 our band, the great Jackie Clark Uh, which is you know, 1:45:55.960 --> 1:45:58.519 I'm trying to figure this out from the Soviet game. 1:45:58.640 --> 1:46:03.880 Doesn't matter, great musician, great cat at. They said, do 1:46:03.880 --> 1:46:05.800 you have a female singer in your baby? So we 1:46:05.840 --> 1:46:07.880 do not. But so we asked a friend of ours 1:46:07.880 --> 1:46:11.040 from mass and Jan Garrett to come take part, you know, 1:46:11.200 --> 1:46:14.120 so she tore over us as well, and we didn't. 1:46:14.240 --> 1:46:16.920 We went and did this tour of the Soviet Union 1:46:17.400 --> 1:46:22.920 um and we got there first of May. May day. 1:46:22.960 --> 1:46:27.160 Literally look out the window overlooking Red Square and there's 1:46:27.200 --> 1:46:31.759 all this, you know WHOA We're seeing missiles going through 1:46:31.880 --> 1:46:35.479 Red Square and a lot of marching going on, and 1:46:35.520 --> 1:46:38.680 a lot of guys in overcoats, you know who are 1:46:38.720 --> 1:46:43.040 following us. This is the KGB followed us everywhere we went. 1:46:43.600 --> 1:46:45.880 It was kind of crazy because there was no communication. 1:46:46.000 --> 1:46:49.920 We had no there's no internet, so the only way 1:46:49.960 --> 1:46:53.000 we could make calls back home was by ordering literally 1:46:53.160 --> 1:46:57.479 ordering a phone call at x one hours like three 1:46:57.560 --> 1:47:02.080 days ahead, and we're having to send a telegram man 1:47:02.200 --> 1:47:05.679 old school say, I mean a carrier pigeon back home 1:47:06.479 --> 1:47:09.720 so our friends, your family could get the message that 1:47:09.760 --> 1:47:13.160 we're gonna be make sure you pick up the phone. Also, 1:47:13.240 --> 1:47:17.200 no answering machines, so we can talk for like three 1:47:17.240 --> 1:47:22.360 minutes meantime. Though this is pretty fascinating to us, you know, 1:47:22.439 --> 1:47:25.400 we're like, this is myself and Jimmy Fadden and John 1:47:25.439 --> 1:47:27.840 McEwen and our buddy Jackie Clark, who, by the way, 1:47:27.880 --> 1:47:31.599 came from the icon Tina Tina the Icon Tina Turner review, 1:47:32.200 --> 1:47:36.920 great musician and Jackie played his ass off gud. He 1:47:37.000 --> 1:47:40.679 was a great guitar player, singer, bass player, played piano 1:47:40.720 --> 1:47:45.719 as well. Came from a church gospel background amazing, loved 1:47:45.800 --> 1:47:49.519 wearing a cowboy hat and dressing in nudis suits and 1:47:49.600 --> 1:47:52.600 like Manuel cluing, which I got a giant kick out of, 1:47:52.680 --> 1:47:54.960 we all did. We all bought a bunch of suits 1:47:54.960 --> 1:47:57.960 from Manuel's our buddy John Cable, who was a friend 1:47:58.000 --> 1:48:00.760 of ours from Colorado. They were on board for I 1:48:00.800 --> 1:48:02.400 don't know about a year and a half. Jackie and 1:48:02.479 --> 1:48:08.840 John so we started this tour and we went to 1:48:08.920 --> 1:48:14.479 Soviet Georgia, drank moonshine with the kind of this guy's 1:48:14.600 --> 1:48:18.800 like kind of a godfather figure in and he was 1:48:18.880 --> 1:48:23.160 the mayor of this time. What was the name of it, 1:48:23.479 --> 1:48:29.639 shoot Deblisi, I think anyway, Uh, if I got that wrong, sorry, folks, 1:48:29.680 --> 1:48:33.040 I'm not looking at my history book. So drank moonshine 1:48:33.080 --> 1:48:35.640 with him, which was fun. We've got Yeah. So we 1:48:35.680 --> 1:48:38.240 had a couple of days off, played in Georgia. That 1:48:38.320 --> 1:48:40.880 was really great, just getting hot, by the way, hot 1:48:40.920 --> 1:48:44.519 and muggy nowhere conditioning in the Soviet Union. So we're like, yeah, 1:48:44.520 --> 1:48:47.840 we're torn in the south again. Here's Georgia. Here's Georgia. 1:48:48.520 --> 1:48:53.720 Next thing we play in uh yet a van. I 1:48:53.760 --> 1:49:00.240 believe it was in uh in Armenia soccer stadium. Five 1:49:00.240 --> 1:49:04.720 thousand people inside, ten thousand people outside trying to get in. 1:49:05.240 --> 1:49:07.759 There was a riot. I don't there was a riot. 1:49:07.800 --> 1:49:11.640 I don't think anybody got hurt. But we're gone. And 1:49:11.720 --> 1:49:13.519 by the way, we had heard from the jump that 1:49:14.160 --> 1:49:16.960 these folks aren't gonna respond to your music if they 1:49:16.960 --> 1:49:21.240 don't clap loudly. Understand, these people are rushing the stage, 1:49:21.320 --> 1:49:25.160 standing on their seats, going nuts. Crazy bunch of folks 1:49:25.160 --> 1:49:27.120 in our media. We were loving it because it felt 1:49:27.160 --> 1:49:30.680 like rock and roll us. We're playing as loud as 1:49:30.840 --> 1:49:33.120 that our little p a that we brought with us 1:49:33.160 --> 1:49:38.839 it could stand. Uh. We played Latvia, which was great, 1:49:39.160 --> 1:49:41.720 and that was the one place that was kind of 1:49:41.760 --> 1:49:46.400 the least Soviet of the Soviet Union. I mean everywhere 1:49:46.479 --> 1:49:51.599 so far Georgia and you're and Armenia is pretty shut down. 1:49:51.960 --> 1:49:55.160 You know. The the authorities did not want us talking 1:49:55.200 --> 1:50:00.160 to fans. They didn't want folks hearing about America, honestly know, 1:50:00.479 --> 1:50:03.200 and they would detain them. They'd throw them in jail, 1:50:03.640 --> 1:50:06.200 you know, if you know, for a couple of days. 1:50:06.240 --> 1:50:08.680 If they were lucky. Some of them were beaten. We 1:50:08.800 --> 1:50:14.040 find out later, which awful. We go to Latvia all 1:50:14.040 --> 1:50:20.080 of a sudden, you know, people are dressing hipper, the 1:50:20.160 --> 1:50:23.200 women are wearing makeup, and it was like it looked 1:50:23.240 --> 1:50:26.320 like Europe to us. It didn't because the Soviet Union 1:50:26.479 --> 1:50:29.800 was really great. That that country was in black and 1:50:29.840 --> 1:50:34.479 white literally, um, and Armenia was kind of crazy, but 1:50:34.520 --> 1:50:39.479 again still you know, feeling that kind of Eastern European 1:50:39.560 --> 1:50:43.240 oppression at that point. But Latvia, we come to find out, 1:50:43.320 --> 1:50:47.479 fought back hard. You know, they were like Ukraine during 1:50:47.520 --> 1:50:51.240 World War two, is right now. And then they pull 1:50:51.320 --> 1:50:54.880 us aside and we toast. We'd you know say, basically 1:50:55.640 --> 1:50:59.360 screw bres Well. We drank a little laka. Uh. We 1:50:59.400 --> 1:51:02.120 had a great time with them, they were wonderful. Then 1:51:02.160 --> 1:51:04.040 we went to the Soviet Union and again you know, 1:51:04.120 --> 1:51:08.440 our our our guides are emissaries who really sweet interpreters, 1:51:08.720 --> 1:51:11.519 really really fine folks because you know, they were used 1:51:11.560 --> 1:51:15.559 to dealing with with creatives, with artsy FARTSI people because 1:51:15.560 --> 1:51:17.800 they had they were doing ballet and different you know, 1:51:18.240 --> 1:51:23.759 different tours with a cultural exchange. There again pulling us aside. 1:51:23.800 --> 1:51:26.000 They're not gonna really you know, they're not going to 1:51:26.120 --> 1:51:28.640 be that excited. You know, don't be offended if they 1:51:28.920 --> 1:51:33.879 do the golf clap, you know. So they're rushing the stage, 1:51:33.960 --> 1:51:36.880 you know, they're coming up and throwing bouquets of flowers 1:51:36.880 --> 1:51:42.120 on the stage, and we're smirking because we were used 1:51:42.160 --> 1:51:45.120 to entertaining people and you know, kind of getting a 1:51:45.240 --> 1:51:48.160 rise out of them. So we love that. So we 1:51:48.240 --> 1:51:53.280 played in uh, I guess it was Leningrad went back 1:51:53.280 --> 1:51:55.559 to my we closed it out of Moscow. We did it. 1:51:55.960 --> 1:52:01.680 We did it. Uh a TV broadcast to hundreds of 1:52:01.800 --> 1:52:07.040 millions of people, one station, one TV, one channel. So 1:52:07.080 --> 1:52:10.360 that was pretty great. That was fun. Um. And then 1:52:10.400 --> 1:52:12.280 we got back on a plane and went back home. 1:52:12.320 --> 1:52:16.120 And this is after a month there. And I remember 1:52:16.160 --> 1:52:19.640 we had a layover in in Belgium and Brussels and 1:52:19.720 --> 1:52:23.760 just remember walking off that plane just like, oh my gosh, 1:52:23.880 --> 1:52:27.200 everything's in technicolor. Again. I felt like latvia, you know, 1:52:28.120 --> 1:52:31.639 it's like you want to coke with ice, Yeah, because 1:52:31.680 --> 1:52:36.360 again we're sweating to the hits. It was a long tour. 1:52:36.439 --> 1:52:40.559 We were all really homesick, and uh, it was. It 1:52:40.680 --> 1:52:43.880 was pretty remarkable. It had a huge impact on us, 1:52:44.560 --> 1:52:49.080 you know, as people. Okay, looking back at this amazing career, 1:52:49.160 --> 1:52:54.320 how have you done financially? You know, we kinda I 1:52:54.320 --> 1:52:57.240 mean honestly through the early years, ay, I should say 1:52:57.320 --> 1:52:59.920 part of it, we didn't give a crap but make 1:53:00.040 --> 1:53:02.880 and money. So if we had, if we had, if 1:53:02.920 --> 1:53:06.640 we had enough dough to buy some groovy clothes, you know, 1:53:06.840 --> 1:53:11.559 maybe a jacket from North Beach leather in l a 1:53:11.920 --> 1:53:16.360 or a cool pair of cowboy boothe you know, everybody 1:53:16.400 --> 1:53:19.679 got their favorite jeans and they didn't cost thirty bucks 1:53:19.760 --> 1:53:25.040 back then much less. Um, keep us in some cool 1:53:25.160 --> 1:53:29.439 shirts long as the families were fed, you know, and 1:53:29.439 --> 1:53:31.920 and stuff didn't cost very much. I didn't. I didn't 1:53:31.920 --> 1:53:35.120 buy my first new car until I was almost thirty. 1:53:35.200 --> 1:53:38.200 I think, so we're poking along. As long as we 1:53:38.240 --> 1:53:41.679 get to play, we're cool. We didn't start. I didn't 1:53:41.720 --> 1:53:45.479 notice till Bob Carpenter and I and our friend Richard Hathaway, 1:53:45.479 --> 1:53:47.920 who was playing in our band in nineteen eight as well. 1:53:48.640 --> 1:53:53.200 We co wrote Make a Little Magic, and those checks 1:53:53.240 --> 1:53:57.240 were big, and this is pop music, and I was like, man, 1:53:57.800 --> 1:54:01.760 we all loved writing songs. But I didn't realize like 1:54:01.880 --> 1:54:06.400 our friends, you know, from the Drubadour, who are seeing 1:54:06.439 --> 1:54:10.760 some substantial coin from you know, Jackson's records and the 1:54:10.800 --> 1:54:18.120 Eagles records. JD. Souther. Uh oh, yeah, that's kind of 1:54:18.640 --> 1:54:22.160 kind of cool. So we got lucky and we wrote 1:54:22.200 --> 1:54:25.200 this hit song and we got signed to Ask Gap 1:54:25.200 --> 1:54:29.559 and they actually had signing bonuses unrecoupable, So yeah, it 1:54:29.680 --> 1:54:31.599 was kind of kind of up. The Anny a little bit, 1:54:31.720 --> 1:54:33.200 had a little money in the bank, has so much 1:54:33.240 --> 1:54:36.440 money that I didn't know anything about you know, it's 1:54:36.440 --> 1:54:38.920 ten ninety nine cash, so I didn't put anything aside 1:54:38.920 --> 1:54:43.600 for taxes to pay my taxes. I'm like, what what taxes? 1:54:45.000 --> 1:54:47.040 Got a huge bill. Actually had to take a loan 1:54:47.080 --> 1:54:48.840 out with my folks at the end of that year. 1:54:48.960 --> 1:54:52.880 That never happened again, God bless them. But I was like, yeah, 1:54:52.960 --> 1:54:55.680 you make you can make money writing songs, because again, 1:54:55.880 --> 1:54:58.400 we're making why don't we were? I think we're paying 1:54:58.400 --> 1:55:02.640 ourselves a salary. I guess enough to enough to live on. 1:55:03.040 --> 1:55:06.400 But it wasn't a huge amount of money. And uh, 1:55:06.440 --> 1:55:10.560 you know when we got um, the records were all 1:55:11.440 --> 1:55:14.720 cross collateralized, so we have a hit record that would 1:55:14.760 --> 1:55:16.839 go into the next record that might be a stiff 1:55:17.240 --> 1:55:19.040 So all the money kind of evened out, and like 1:55:19.120 --> 1:55:21.360 the average was, you know, hey, here's a here's a 1:55:21.360 --> 1:55:24.800 couple hundred, here's a couple of grand maybe. So we 1:55:24.880 --> 1:55:28.440 did honestly, man, you know, we got paid for doing this. 1:55:28.840 --> 1:55:32.920 That was our attitude. How lucky are we? But as 1:55:32.960 --> 1:55:37.160 we got you know, as we started raising families, um, 1:55:37.280 --> 1:55:39.800 we you know, and then started making some of this 1:55:39.960 --> 1:55:43.520 right songwriting income, it became a little different game. We 1:55:43.600 --> 1:55:47.520 did not live in palaces. Uh. I mean, I'd like 1:55:47.600 --> 1:55:51.400 to say that the peaks and the valleys were less 1:55:51.400 --> 1:55:54.160 extreme in our band, and I think I'm grateful for that, 1:55:54.280 --> 1:55:58.600 because we didn't fall off of Everest, you know, and 1:55:58.680 --> 1:56:01.680 land way down into f Valley. It was always it 1:56:01.720 --> 1:56:04.320 was always a little hill and then the car cruises 1:56:04.320 --> 1:56:08.720 down the backside. So I think we were you know, 1:56:08.800 --> 1:56:10.760 we were pretty seasoned by the time we were in 1:56:10.800 --> 1:56:14.160 our mid thirties and came to Nashville. And then again 1:56:14.200 --> 1:56:16.280 we're right in half the hits, two thirds of the 1:56:16.320 --> 1:56:19.640 hits it country your radio, so they're starting to pass 1:56:19.680 --> 1:56:22.840 that mailbox money again. It's pretty cool, and we got 1:56:22.960 --> 1:56:27.200 and we got this. The career made sense now. And 1:56:27.480 --> 1:56:30.200 you know, Bob, you came up in a time where 1:56:31.200 --> 1:56:36.720 nothing was genre specific, you know, and I those those 1:56:36.480 --> 1:56:39.400 those FM stations. I love the bit that you wrote 1:56:39.400 --> 1:56:43.280 about the Raspberries. The other day. Hearing your songs on 1:56:43.320 --> 1:56:45.720 AM was like, that's pretty cool. FM was where the 1:56:45.760 --> 1:56:49.480 fun was. Flatt and Scruggs. Literally I heard Earl Scruggs 1:56:49.480 --> 1:56:54.839 and Lester Flat segueing into Foxy Lady by Jimmie Hendricks 1:56:54.840 --> 1:57:00.440 on FM radio, especially college radios so cool. But now 1:57:01.680 --> 1:57:04.800 country music sign FM and rock and roll and you 1:57:04.920 --> 1:57:08.440 got the A O R charts and we found this 1:57:08.480 --> 1:57:11.000 home and country music. They were so welcoming, and I 1:57:11.080 --> 1:57:15.480 tell you they liked They liked us because twelve years 1:57:15.480 --> 1:57:19.120 earlier we had done Will the Circle Be Unbroken? So 1:57:19.160 --> 1:57:21.360 they thought these guys are legit. They don't have to 1:57:21.440 --> 1:57:24.320 prove to us that they love country music, because we 1:57:24.400 --> 1:57:27.520 know they did because they made a record with Roy 1:57:27.520 --> 1:57:31.520 Acuff and Mother Maybell Carter and Roy I'm Sorry and 1:57:31.640 --> 1:57:35.840 and Earl Scruggs. So uh, we had our foot in 1:57:35.880 --> 1:57:38.040 the door. And they and again they had placed some 1:57:38.080 --> 1:57:43.760 of the popists, you know, Magic and American Dream. So 1:57:43.800 --> 1:57:46.760 we're lucky we got he had great producers. We always 1:57:47.120 --> 1:57:50.200 had an ear towards outside material because as much as 1:57:50.200 --> 1:57:52.640 we loved writing songs and we were all good at it, 1:57:52.920 --> 1:57:57.280 I'm proud of the songwriters in our band. Um, if 1:57:57.280 --> 1:57:59.320 we heard a song like stand a Little Rain that 1:57:59.400 --> 1:58:02.840 was written by our buddies Don Schlitz and Donney Lowry, 1:58:02.960 --> 1:58:07.360 we weren't going to not cut that great song. Rodney Krawll, 1:58:07.480 --> 1:58:10.520 who had written American Dream, he comes with in with 1:58:10.560 --> 1:58:14.640 a song called Long Hard Road the share Propper's dream, 1:58:15.000 --> 1:58:18.200 great tune, and you could hear that song on Americana 1:58:18.320 --> 1:58:25.520 Radio now very easily. Rodney's skills are profound. So that 1:58:25.600 --> 1:58:27.600 was the first number one our band ever had. We 1:58:27.680 --> 1:58:29.640 never had a number one record until we put out 1:58:29.640 --> 1:58:32.840 A Long Hard Road Country Radio. But we had this 1:58:32.960 --> 1:58:35.560 run and we got you know, like all of us, 1:58:35.640 --> 1:58:37.840 we got a little spoiled with it. It's like we're 1:58:37.840 --> 1:58:39.760 gonna put out a single, it's gonna go to number 1:58:39.800 --> 1:58:43.800 one or top ten or top five. That started falling 1:58:43.840 --> 1:58:46.080 off a little bit towards the end of the country career, 1:58:46.160 --> 1:58:49.880 the radio career, i should say. But man, country music 1:58:49.920 --> 1:58:53.760 fans are loyal. And when you combine the country music 1:58:53.800 --> 1:58:59.720 fans from the eighties into the nineties with um our, 1:59:00.120 --> 1:59:02.560 you know, the country rock fans and the bluegrass fans 1:59:02.560 --> 1:59:05.560 from the seventies, that makes for a really, really great 1:59:05.600 --> 1:59:08.160 fan fan base and a really loyal one. And we 1:59:08.240 --> 1:59:13.360 love those folks. They've stuck with us. Okay, So you're 1:59:13.400 --> 1:59:16.200 one of the few bands who sustained in excess of 1:59:16.240 --> 1:59:21.080 fifty years and had hits and success in different genres 1:59:21.120 --> 1:59:23.840 at different times. There are bands on the road that 1:59:23.920 --> 1:59:25.640 you know, had huge hits at the end of the 1:59:25.680 --> 1:59:28.600 sixties and seven. He's never had any other action and 1:59:28.640 --> 1:59:32.200 they're touring on that. Whereas you've had these multi successes 1:59:32.560 --> 1:59:35.920 in as I say, in different areas. Do you feel 1:59:36.560 --> 1:59:40.760 that the Nati Guitty Dirt Band gets enough respect? Would 1:59:40.760 --> 1:59:44.000 you like a victory lap to impress people on success 1:59:44.520 --> 1:59:47.680 or you're just chugging along, little engine that could. As 1:59:47.720 --> 1:59:50.640 long as you can play and the fans come, you're happy. Honestly, 1:59:51.480 --> 1:59:54.880 We're so grateful to be the little engine that could 1:59:55.200 --> 1:59:58.480 and keep making records and have fans that allow us 1:59:58.520 --> 2:00:00.720 to do anything. And listen, man, we made some we've 2:00:00.760 --> 2:00:02.960 recorded some tunes or tracks, and I'm not going to 2:00:03.080 --> 2:00:06.360 mention that. I was just like, what were we thinking 2:00:08.360 --> 2:00:11.040 back way back when? Some of them during the jug 2:00:11.040 --> 2:00:13.480 band era, some of them during the yacht rock era. 2:00:14.080 --> 2:00:18.240 But I'm really proud of everything, especially that we've done 2:00:18.280 --> 2:00:21.680 since you know, the early eighties till now um and 2:00:21.720 --> 2:00:25.440 the and the seventies records kind of leap frog and backwards. 2:00:26.520 --> 2:00:31.480 I I you know, our fans allow us the latitude 2:00:31.480 --> 2:00:35.360 to try anything, and I'm so grateful for that. Well, Jeff, 2:00:35.440 --> 2:00:37.800 this has been amazing. You know, as I say, we 2:00:37.880 --> 2:00:40.000 really could have gone on for a couple more hours, 2:00:40.360 --> 2:00:44.520 going into detail about the second and third will the 2:00:44.560 --> 2:00:50.000 Circle be unbroken, records, the yacht rock era, and of 2:00:50.040 --> 2:00:54.480 course the temporary change of the name and the changing 2:00:54.560 --> 2:00:57.600 cast of characters. But I think we've come to the 2:00:57.720 --> 2:01:01.200 end of the feeling we've known for today. All right, man, 2:01:01.280 --> 2:01:04.080 thank you, Thank you so much. I want to thank 2:01:04.120 --> 2:01:06.600 you so much. And you really illuminated stuff, even for me. 2:01:06.640 --> 2:01:10.320 You really made the southern California scene come alive. And 2:01:10.760 --> 2:01:13.680 I wasn't here until the seventies, and I've read about 2:01:13.720 --> 2:01:15.839 this stuff, but to talk to someone who was actually 2:01:15.920 --> 2:01:19.360 there and go to the paradox, etcetera. You really, you 2:01:19.400 --> 2:01:23.360 know these stories I've heard and haven't heard, you really illuminated. 2:01:23.400 --> 2:01:25.400 So in any event, I want to thank you so much. 2:01:25.520 --> 2:01:29.360 Thank you. Bob Gays talking about until next time. This 2:01:29.440 --> 2:01:30.520 is Bob left Sins