Speaker 1: Welcome a trillions. I'm Joel Webber and.
Speaker 2: I'm Eric Belchunis.
Speaker 1: Okay, Eric, A lot of things have happened so far
Speaker 1: this year or didn't happen. I should say that now
Speaker 1: that we're in the second half of the year, it
Speaker 1: felt like I wanted to huddle with you and get
Speaker 1: a better sense of what could happen in the second
Speaker 1: half of the year, because look like there's a nineteen
Speaker 1: percent up year to date in the S and P
Speaker 1: five hundred. That's crazy. Nobody expected that We're supposed to
Speaker 1: be like mired in a recession that has yet to happen, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's been a wild year.
Speaker 3: And you know, a few episodes back, we had Athanasios
Speaker 3: on my team on to talk about the Fomo drought.
Speaker 3: You know, all these the cues and spy were up
Speaker 3: a lot, but nobody.
Speaker 2: Was buying, and that that kind of ended.
Speaker 3: The flows are back, so that's one sort of baby
Speaker 3: that's been put to bed. Is the flows now matched
Speaker 3: the performance. But yeah, there's you know a lot of
Speaker 3: excess return right now. I'm always nervous when when the
Speaker 3: ques are of thirty six percent in like the first
Speaker 3: half of the year, I'm like, all right, when's when's
Speaker 3: the shoe gonna drop?
Speaker 2: What's gonna happen to pull us back?
Speaker 3: Maybe there'll be an inflation print, although there hasn't been,
Speaker 3: but yeah, it's unexpected and all of a sudden, growth
Speaker 3: and tech are back, and that's the sort of thing
Speaker 3: just like seven stocks leading everything, and it kind of
Speaker 3: feels like twenty and twenty one again, like twenty twenty
Speaker 3: two never happens.
Speaker 2: So that's the macro scene.
Speaker 3: But certainly there's other things in the ETF world I
Speaker 3: think that are really interesting that I don't know, get
Speaker 3: me out of bed in the morning, jowl. There's a
Speaker 3: lot of interesting stuff that we're looking for in the
Speaker 3: second half that really could make news.
Speaker 1: Okay, So for your summer listening, we're gonna go back
Speaker 1: to Athanasio, Sarah Vegas of Bloomberg Intelligence and Analysts with
Speaker 1: Eric and talk through a few of the things to
Speaker 1: look out for between now and the end. This time,
Speaker 1: I'm trying five things to watch in the second half
Speaker 1: at the Nacios. Welcome back to trillions.
Speaker 4: Yeah, glad to be back.
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the number one thing that you guys are
Speaker 1: like as the analyst the ETF analyst at Bloomberger Intelligence.
Speaker 1: You're like rolling out of bed, fired up to watch
Speaker 1: in the second half.
Speaker 4: Should I pass this one to Eric on bitcoin? Do
Speaker 4: we want to start there? I don't want to start there,
Speaker 4: but he already did. I let's go.
Speaker 2: We have to.
Speaker 3: Now this is a it's an interesting dynamic on our team.
Speaker 3: James and I are like losing our minds about the
Speaker 3: bitcoin ETF race, along with nature Racy at ETF store.
Speaker 3: Every every like ten minutes on Twitter, there's some new
Speaker 3: document or amendment and we're we're analyzing it. I feel
Speaker 3: like Jim Garrison in the movie JFK, just basically all
Speaker 3: this circumstantial evidence coming at me left and right that
Speaker 3: Lee Harvey Oswell did not act alone, right.
Speaker 2: And that's a lot what it feels like.
Speaker 3: I'm not sure what is going to in retrospect be
Speaker 3: the right clue whether the SEC will approve the first
Speaker 3: ever spot BITCOINYTF. But where we stand now is that
Speaker 3: the SEC has really recently acknowledged all the filings.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 3: Now, in a couple of days they'll hit the public
Speaker 3: Registry and from there a clock starts, and so we're
Speaker 3: going to have the next deadline date be August thirteenth
Speaker 3: for ARC and then sometime in September for the rest,
Speaker 3: but the SEC could punt, so the first final final
Speaker 3: deadline will be January next year. So the question is, well,
Speaker 3: the SEC approven before then, will they deny them again
Speaker 3: just as usual? This everything has been changed because Blackrock
Speaker 3: filed and the black rocks Blackrock, and so that's really
Speaker 3: changed the game. And there's been other things that have
Speaker 3: happened in terms of coinbase, you know, maturing, and maybe
Speaker 3: maybe they're the kind of company that would have a
Speaker 3: surveillance sharing agreement with NASDAC and the SEC would be
Speaker 3: okay with that, even though they weren't in the past. Again,
Speaker 3: there's a lot of very but this is a story
Speaker 3: that's massive.
Speaker 2: Why if they approve.
Speaker 3: One, there's thirty trillion dollars plus that is just more
Speaker 3: comfortable using an ETF and those would be advisors, and
Speaker 3: so you kind of unlock at least a portion of
Speaker 3: that money to be in play for this ETF. They
Speaker 3: love ETF, They trust ETFs, especially once from like Blackrock,
Speaker 3: and so this would be like a bridge from the
Speaker 3: boomer advisor all the wealth in America world to the
Speaker 3: sort of crypto underworld. And that's why this is a
Speaker 3: massive story. It involves the biggest asset manager, the highest
Speaker 3: rugs of government.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's all the.
Speaker 1: Airtrol okay, Athanasios. If you're the SEC, why wouldn't you
Speaker 1: just let the shot clock run out on this calendar year?
Speaker 4: Uh? Yeah, I mean and maybe they might. I think
Speaker 4: we're going to get right to I think with a
Speaker 4: timeline it might actually push it into next year. And
Speaker 4: I don't know if it's just a game of waiting
Speaker 4: out Gensler or whatnot, But well, I don't share Eric's
Speaker 4: enthusiasm for it. I think it's time. I think the
Speaker 4: market can handle it, right, the black Rock is now involved,
Speaker 4: these products exists in other markets in Canada and Europe.
Speaker 4: Like the market can handle it. I think it's about
Speaker 4: time that actually just approved like a two x bitcoin
Speaker 4: future is etf too, like ahead of this, so that
Speaker 4: kind of seemed a little odd, but I think it's
Speaker 4: I think it's about time move forward with this.
Speaker 2: Eric.
Speaker 1: Are you confident it happens this year or do you
Speaker 1: think it happens next year or or just you know,
Speaker 1: we don't know and it just punts keeps punting.
Speaker 3: So James and I are collectively giving our team's odds,
Speaker 3: and we've come up with fifty percent, which we're getting
Speaker 3: like getting like mocked on Twitter because like, oh, fifty percent.
Speaker 2: Whoa way to.
Speaker 3: Take a stand there, But I'm like, listen, stop. Forty percent.
Speaker 3: That's the cop out number. That's what the sell side
Speaker 3: always does. There's a forty percent chance of it raining,
Speaker 3: there's a forty percent chance of the.
Speaker 2: Market going up.
Speaker 3: That's the cop out. Fifty percent is actually aggressive, and
Speaker 3: it's relative to our etf peers. You look at Vetify,
Speaker 3: morning Star and others, I think we're mostly aggressive. Fifty
Speaker 3: percent would be higher, I think than they would do.
Speaker 3: And I even have another steak dinner bet on this
Speaker 3: with Todd Rosenblooth of Edify, one of our friends. I'm
Speaker 3: still three and two on these and so I don't
Speaker 3: want to go five hundred. So I'm really hoping if
Speaker 3: anybody from the SEC is listening, just to prove the
Speaker 3: damn thing it's time.
Speaker 2: As Ethan said, let me have my steak dinner. I will.
Speaker 3: It'll be glorious because he's so such a downer about it,
Speaker 3: and I just think that Blackrock would not have done
Speaker 3: this if they didn't think they had somewhat of a
Speaker 3: winning hand.
Speaker 2: I kind of knew.
Speaker 1: I had a hunch that you were going to say
Speaker 1: bitcoin was the number one thing I was going to
Speaker 1: be watching for by the end of the air. So
Speaker 1: it surprised me with number two.
Speaker 4: Okay, So now let's let's get into some of the
Speaker 4: ETF weeds and a big thing the share is going
Speaker 4: to be the Vanguard ETF share class patent and actually
Speaker 4: what okay, so what yeah, let's talk about what that is. Actually,
Speaker 4: So Vanguard has this unique advantage that no one else
Speaker 4: has here that their ETFs are share class of their
Speaker 4: mutual fund. And they had a patent on this actually
Speaker 4: and it expired this year, and now this is up
Speaker 4: for review and other issuers might try to copy this
Speaker 4: patent or you know, get access to it. And one
Speaker 4: thing that also happened last year is all these different
Speaker 4: estimatgers are coming to the market. So deciding how do
Speaker 4: we want to do this. Do we want to just
Speaker 4: launch ETFs, do we want to convert ETFs, or do
Speaker 4: we wait for the share class patent to come up.
Speaker 4: So now with this being available to them, we're trying
Speaker 4: to figure out can they actually get this done. Everyone's
Speaker 4: trying to petition for it. We've heard mixed results. The
Speaker 4: SEC is saying, well, we're not very comfortable with letting
Speaker 4: everyone else use this. Other issuers are pretty bullish on it.
Speaker 4: I'm on the team. We're pretty split. I'm very bullish
Speaker 4: on this. I like the ETF share class. I think
Speaker 4: it makes a lot of sense compared to some of
Speaker 4: the other routes that issuers are taking. Eric is very
Speaker 4: bullish on conversions, and the reason why I feel more
Speaker 4: confident into this, you know, talking about this last week DFA,
Speaker 4: who was like really came in really strong with conversions.
Speaker 4: They actually now file that they want to adopt the
Speaker 4: share class, which I thought was really interesting that, you know,
Speaker 4: sort of like the babies of conversions are like when
Speaker 4: I wouldn't want to do conversions anymore, we want to
Speaker 4: start pursuing the share class. So I think this is
Speaker 4: going to be I think if they do approve it,
Speaker 4: we're going to see I think we can see a
Speaker 4: lot of issuers or other asset managers start to convert
Speaker 4: their et or tack the sounds of their mutual funds.
Speaker 1: Eric how big of a game, ginger would this be
Speaker 1: if Vanguard is no longer the only one.
Speaker 3: This is this is very huge. Again, if for anybody
Speaker 3: who's still awake after hearing Vanguard's share class structure, I
Speaker 3: know that's very boring, but it's major because there's twenty
Speaker 3: six trillion dollars in mutual funds, not all of it,
Speaker 3: but a good chunk of that for a variety of reasons,
Speaker 3: is having trouble getting into the ETF world. This would
Speaker 3: actually give them a bridge over. They would just launch
Speaker 3: an ETF share class with their mutual fund. And they're
Speaker 3: really gnawing to do this because the ETF access something
Speaker 3: of a dialysis machine for taxes. It's a way to
Speaker 3: get rid of capital gains in your mutual fund and
Speaker 3: make the mutual fund more tax efficient. This is what
Speaker 3: Vanguard has done with their index mutual funds and their
Speaker 3: share class. So now, to be sure, it's not a
Speaker 3: home it's not like a slam dunk because even if
Speaker 3: the sec allows it, which is a big if, if
Speaker 3: your mutual funds the outflows, it can be harder to
Speaker 3: do this correctly because if you have to sell securities
Speaker 3: to meet the outflows it's possible the ETF takes a
Speaker 3: capital gains hit that ETF investors are not used to getting.
Speaker 3: Because of that, Ben Jonson calls it tax contagion, and
Speaker 3: I think that's a great term.
Speaker 2: So, and we know most mutual funds have outflows.
Speaker 3: That's the big kind of marketplace problem with that. And
Speaker 3: then there's a regulatory hurdle too. That's why I'm still
Speaker 3: more bullish on versions. A conversion, you come over to
Speaker 3: the ETF world, You leave the mutual fund world behind,
Speaker 3: bye bye. You come over with your share class. I
Speaker 3: mean your performance record, your assets, and your dignity.
Speaker 2: You all of a sudden a player. And I think
Speaker 2: this is what most people should just do.
Speaker 3: It might be a little cannibalization, but in the long run,
Speaker 3: it's worth it. And so I'm more bullish conversions. James
Speaker 3: and Ethan are a little more bullish on the share class.
Speaker 3: And this is, you know, one of the things that
Speaker 3: we fight about our debate rather on our persistent chat
Speaker 3: every day.
Speaker 1: Well, you went with the weeds there, Athanasias, and I'm
Speaker 1: curious you're going to go more weedy or less weedy
Speaker 1: with number three. Thing to watch between now and the
Speaker 1: end of the year.
Speaker 4: So this is a little bit more market related. And
Speaker 4: it was something that Eric alluded to in the beginning
Speaker 4: about the ending of the fomo drought, right, and what
Speaker 4: was causing the fomo drout, and one was that you
Speaker 4: were making decent yield on cash and money market funds.
Speaker 4: I actually think that we might have peaked there a
Speaker 4: little bit, and I think this is what has caused
Speaker 4: the fomo drought to end. And I didn't really realize
Speaker 4: this until recently. For the most part, over the last year,
Speaker 4: cash was beating pretty much everything. It was beating stocks,
Speaker 4: it was beating bonds. Now all of a sudden, because
Speaker 4: I think we were mentioning the cues are up like
Speaker 4: almost forty percent this year. Yeah, and now you're like, well,
Speaker 4: cash is great, but you know it's even better, like
Speaker 4: forty percent in the queues, and everyone's starting to tilt
Speaker 4: over to that now. So now we're seeing that most
Speaker 4: strategies are beating cash over the last year, and I
Speaker 4: think that's been enough to start enticing people back into
Speaker 4: the market. Right.
Speaker 1: So that makes me think that we could see inflows
Speaker 1: go dramatically up between now and the end of the year,
Speaker 1: just because everybody probably still has a tidy amount still.
Speaker 4: In cash, right, uh. Yeah, And you know there's still
Speaker 4: five trillion or so still money market funds, and I
Speaker 4: think if it's probably enough to say, you know what,
Speaker 4: I can leave some in cash, but I'm comfortable enough
Speaker 4: to be putting some money back to work in the
Speaker 4: market or not, it's too late, Like forty six months
Speaker 4: is a lot. It's an aggressive move. So I don't
Speaker 4: know what, you know, what the second half of the
Speaker 4: year is going to look like, but I think to
Speaker 4: your point, flows should pick up. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, just to add, flows into ETFs overall are two
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty three billion.
Speaker 2: That's not a lot.
Speaker 3: That's normally what ETFs do in like I don't know,
Speaker 3: four months and we're into July, so it's been a
Speaker 3: little but they've really picked up over the last I
Speaker 3: don't know, six weeks, the two months. They're having a
Speaker 3: good summer, let's just say. And equity is almost like
Speaker 3: eighty ninety percent of all the.
Speaker 2: Flows coming in.
Speaker 3: So equity is like, you know, like the player that
Speaker 3: you know is having a bad first half, like Tom
Speaker 3: Brady here, like he's not going to have a bad game,
Speaker 3: Like at some point equity is going to go full equity.
Speaker 3: It's the king of the hill, and especially US equity,
Speaker 3: and it has really turned the tide here and we're
Speaker 3: seeing the flows and I think we'll see a lot
Speaker 3: more at the end of the year. But to our
Speaker 3: point at the beginning, how much more can the queues
Speaker 3: run if you're up that much?
Speaker 2: So it could be.
Speaker 3: Interesting if the flows follow. If the mare it turns
Speaker 3: it downward, and I guess we'll say. And one other
Speaker 3: related chart that Athanasios has that I love is percent
Speaker 3: of active beating the market, and that has plummeted because
Speaker 3: when the six growth stocks are crushing everything, it's bad
Speaker 3: for active because they tend to be fundamentally weighted and
Speaker 3: value weighted and they just are like, there's no way
Speaker 3: I'm buying a stock with a P that hi, I
Speaker 3: don't care what company it is.
Speaker 2: So last year they really did well. So this has
Speaker 2: been bad for active.
Speaker 3: So even no money's coming back into the equity market,
Speaker 3: it's it's I think a lot of it is, you know,
Speaker 3: not great for active performance. But active ETF flows have
Speaker 3: been pretty good, which brings me to number four, which
Speaker 3: is the active ETF flows. So this would be the
Speaker 3: fourth thing on our list, and right now they've taken
Speaker 3: it about one quarter of the flows despite only thirty
Speaker 3: one percent of active discretion or ETFs outperforming the S
Speaker 3: and P why they got cheap. So the fact that
Speaker 3: active can taking money despite having a bad year is
Speaker 3: a very good sign. And it shows that once you
Speaker 3: get dirt cheap, your less performance sensitive advisors have a
Speaker 3: little more patience. If you're cheap, they have like they
Speaker 3: feel like they're gonna a better deal. They're not chasing performance,
Speaker 3: they're they're just looking for a good value and they
Speaker 3: want active price correctly. So active ETFs having a good
Speaker 3: year this year, I think is a great sign long
Speaker 3: term for them.
Speaker 2: Ethan probably agrees.
Speaker 1: So are you Are you surprised by that that they
Speaker 1: were willing to get dirt cheap or was that just
Speaker 1: the thunderdome which you have to do to survive.
Speaker 4: I'm not surprised. And this is a line that's Eric Sigin,
Speaker 4: but I think he nailed it. Is that you have
Speaker 4: to come onto the terms of the ETF industry. Right,
Speaker 4: you can come in and do you could come in
Speaker 4: and charge whatever you want, but ultimately the ETF industry
Speaker 4: will decide, and going cheap just seems like where it's going.
Speaker 4: But it's interesting because people are not anti active, right.
Speaker 4: Even Eric mentioned the rates are way down, but the
Speaker 4: flows are still there. And I think even in the
Speaker 4: second half of the year, if we think that the
Speaker 4: market has run up too much, you might want to
Speaker 4: go active here, right, you might not want to be overweight.
Speaker 4: Dan videos in these really high flying names in the cues,
Speaker 4: so it actually might make sense for the back half
Speaker 4: of the year for active.
Speaker 3: Interesting, let me build upon that, because active ETFs cheap
Speaker 3: ones in particular. What's interesting about that is Vanguard and
Speaker 3: Blackrock don't really have anything there. They don't really have
Speaker 3: an answer yet to cheap active. This is dfatis, JP Morgan.
Speaker 3: Those are the ones that are doing well. And this
Speaker 3: has made Blackrock and Vanguard taken much less. The big
Speaker 3: two is taken in much less than.
Speaker 2: They normally do.
Speaker 3: They are punching below their weight for the first time
Speaker 3: in a long time, and I think it's because they
Speaker 3: don't really have an answer for cheap active. I think
Speaker 3: they'll roll stuff out. I wrote a note saying Vanguard
Speaker 3: has really cheap active mutual funds already. They should just
Speaker 3: bring them over and Blackrock is I think of a
Speaker 3: little more opportunistic on that front, and I think they'll
Speaker 3: just see the flows and respond accordingly. But I think
Speaker 3: cheap active is going to be, you know, a really
Speaker 3: big area in the future. And the reason is because
Speaker 3: beta is free, so people just want to get charged
Speaker 3: for the active. So if you don't have a lot
Speaker 3: of high active share, you kind of have to adjust
Speaker 3: your fees accordingly so that you're just paying for that active.
Speaker 3: And so this is such a big trend. It's actually
Speaker 3: possibly not only going to curb the Big two's growth,
Speaker 3: but it's going to swing the pendulum a little bit.
Speaker 3: Because you know wory about the passive bubble, Well, if
Speaker 3: active finally starts getting flows, it should naturally stop those
Speaker 3: worries that passive is like eating the whole market up.
Speaker 3: And I think that's good. And again I call this
Speaker 3: all the great cost migration. Eventually, everybody's just got to
Speaker 3: get with the program here, and I think Active was
Speaker 3: just a little late to do it, but better late
Speaker 3: than never.
Speaker 1: This actually, to me speaks to maybe the influence of Kathy.
Speaker 1: Would like Kathy could come into ETFs prove that active
Speaker 1: could could work and get attention and like, you know,
Speaker 1: become a thing really And so this is everybody else
Speaker 1: realizing that they have to They could have a version
Speaker 1: of what Kathy can do, right, only they're going to
Speaker 1: be cheaper than her.
Speaker 3: So I think Kathy deserves a lot of credit for
Speaker 3: kicking down the doors that you can. Actually in some
Speaker 3: ways she became a little bit of a rock star manager.
Speaker 3: I thought that those days were over. She kind of
Speaker 3: proved me wrong. But her Active is a different brand.
Speaker 3: Her Active is shiny object active. It's hot sauce active,
Speaker 3: and so she charges over seventy basis points. So that
Speaker 3: is one thing I think Kathy showed that thematic and
Speaker 3: hot sauce can work. What happened recently though, is JP
Speaker 3: Morgan dfa capital group. They all came out with cheap active,
Speaker 3: in particular JEPI, the JP Morgan Equity Income ETF that
Speaker 3: I believe is thirty five basis points around there, and
Speaker 3: that has been the best selling active ETF of all time.
Speaker 3: So what we try to tell people again is it
Speaker 3: comes down if you're active or passive, you kind of
Speaker 3: need to be cheap or shiny. So I think Kathy
Speaker 3: broke down the shiny door. I think JP Morgan broke
Speaker 3: down the cheap active door.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's do the last thing that we're all
Speaker 1: supposed to be watching for between now and the end
Speaker 1: of the year or else, Eric Buysi's all steak dinners.
Speaker 2: This one also involves a bet.
Speaker 3: This is a sushi bet between me and Athan and
Speaker 3: I made a call on a note that JP Morgan
Speaker 3: will pass First Trust in assets by the end of
Speaker 3: the year and overtake the sixth spot, which is kind
Speaker 3: of crazy because JP Morgan was out of the top
Speaker 3: ten just recently. I mean, they have made a actual
Speaker 3: parabolic move up the middle of the charts. So as
Speaker 3: we stand, and this is where my bet on Athanasio's
Speaker 3: hinges is, JP Morgan has one hundred and fifteen billion
Speaker 3: in assets. First Trust has one hundred and forty billion.
Speaker 3: That's a twenty five billion dollar gap.
Speaker 1: That seems pretty that seems pretty wide.
Speaker 3: It is, but JP Morgan has taken in twenty three
Speaker 3: billion and flows this year. First Trust is basically flat,
Speaker 3: so you get a little market help another twenty three billion,
Speaker 3: and JP Morgan is the ETF line is led by
Speaker 3: a very aggressive guy named Brian Lake. We've had on
Speaker 3: the show, and First Trust they're you know, I'm not there.
Speaker 3: They're a good company, solid, they've carved out their niche,
Speaker 3: but I think that they do expensive active so they
Speaker 3: rely more in the relationships, whereas JP Morgan is tapping
Speaker 3: into the cheap active lane, which has been just a
Speaker 3: gusher of opportunity. So I just think JP Morgan is
Speaker 3: going to pass them by the end of the year.
Speaker 3: It's going to be close. The trajectory wise has him
Speaker 3: rate at the bout January first, passing them, but again,
Speaker 3: anything could happen. That's why these bets are fun. But
Speaker 3: Athanasios is a little less bullish on JP Morgan than
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 4: Yeah, props to JP Morgan. They it's not easy to
Speaker 4: come in and make a big splash like they have.
Speaker 4: I think when you start to pull back their lineup,
Speaker 4: it's a little weak, meaning you know, it's it's it's
Speaker 4: contingent on one two products. The only thing I respect
Speaker 4: about First Trust is they've been around a long time.
Speaker 4: Being able to sell ETFs that cost sixty five seventy
Speaker 4: basis points is not easy, so I think they've they've
Speaker 4: been able to weather a lot of different storms. And
Speaker 4: something you mentioned too, like the gap is pretty wide.
Speaker 4: I think they can continue to have that lead for
Speaker 4: a while. I think eventually Eric will be right. I
Speaker 4: don't think they're going to get it done by the
Speaker 4: end of the year, but I always have. You know,
Speaker 4: any firm that can sell against Vanguard and have success
Speaker 4: is pretty meaningful.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't know about just a couple of products.
Speaker 3: I mean they have ready for this nineteen funds that
Speaker 3: have seen inflows over one hundred million this year. There's
Speaker 3: just there's there's a good role players in their lineup.
Speaker 3: It's not just JEFPY, although JEFPY is like the king
Speaker 3: of jp Morgan, but bb EU is four billion, jef
Speaker 3: Q is two point eight billion.
Speaker 4: I don't count those ones. It's JPST and JEFPY. The
Speaker 4: other ones are if I want to.
Speaker 1: All right, we'll come back to this at the end
Speaker 1: of the year. We'll figure out who's got steak dinners,
Speaker 1: who's getting sushi? And you know, Eric, you and I
Speaker 1: might need to come up with something else too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I think you know. I like bets
Speaker 3: because they just keep things interesting. I've been doing this
Speaker 3: for like, I don't know, seventeen years, at this point,
Speaker 3: and it's fun when they come up organically. When you
Speaker 3: get into like a little bit of a debate with somebody,
Speaker 3: it's like, all right, do you really think this or
Speaker 3: you're just sort of debating to debate, Well, debate's sake,
Speaker 3: let's see what you really think.
Speaker 1: We'll see if anybody has any suggestions for.
Speaker 4: Us, and we'll.
Speaker 1: Lay it down all right at the nasios. Thanks for
Speaker 1: joining us on Trillions.
Speaker 4: Yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to Trillions until next time. You can
Speaker 1: find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, Bloomberg dot com, Apple Podcasts, Spotify,
Speaker 1: or wherever else you'd like to listen. We'd love to
Speaker 1: hear from you. We're on Twitter. I'm at Joel Webber Show.
Speaker 1: He's at Eric Faultness. This episode of Trillions was produced
Speaker 1: by magne Is Hendrickson.
Speaker 2: M h m hm
Speaker 4: H m hm