1 00:00:00,800 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: This story contains adult content and language, along with references 2 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 1: to sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised. 3 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 2: It starts praying that God take care of us, fix 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 2: this for me, and after a period of time, God 5 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: has it fixed it. So you said, well, if God's 6 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:23,400 Speaker 2: not going to help me, I'm going to reach out 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 2: to say. 8 00:00:29,240 --> 00:00:33,239 Speaker 1: I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 9 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 1: in Austin, Texas. I'm also the host of the historical 10 00:00:36,280 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: true crime podcast tenfold More Wicked and the co host 11 00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 1: of the podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right. I've traveled 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 1: around the world interviewing people for the show and they 13 00:00:46,600 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: are all excellent writers. They've had so many great true 14 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:52,720 Speaker 1: crime stories, and now we want to tell you those 15 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: stories with details that have never been published. Tenfold More 16 00:00:56,360 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: Wicked presents Wicked Words is about the choices that writers make, 17 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,039 Speaker 1: good and bad. It's a deep dive into the stories 18 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: behind the stories. Best Selling author and my buddy Brian 19 00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:13,399 Speaker 1: Burrow returns to his small town, Texas roots in the 20 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: podcast by Texas Monthly called Stephenville. This season, he explores 21 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: a murder case that went cold for nearly two decades 22 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 1: to tell this amazing story. Brian is armed with the 23 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: newly discovered diary of the killer himself. A trigger warning 24 00:01:30,120 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 1: here we do talk about a serial rapist and killer. 25 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 1: Let's dip into how you came across with the story, 26 00:01:39,440 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: and then we can move from there. 27 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,600 Speaker 2: I had all but retired from any type of magazine journalism. 28 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 2: The economics of it aren't as compelling as they used 29 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 2: to be. I'm sixty one and not looking for as 30 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 2: much work outside books as I used to be. But 31 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: I got an email from a TV producer on Forensic File. 32 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:04,440 Speaker 2: We did a show on a cold case killing in Stephenville, 33 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: Texas a few years back, and the lead detective found 34 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,080 Speaker 2: something new. Found that the bad guy left behind a 35 00:02:11,120 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 2: two hundred page autobiographical essay that for the first time, 36 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 2: told the story of fairly well known events from his 37 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 2: point of view. He had spent his entire life denying 38 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 2: it all, and this was a fairly run of the 39 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: mill bad guy who wrote kind of an extraordinary document 40 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:36,919 Speaker 2: that traced the development of his internal angers, passions, sexual 41 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 2: proclivities from the age of eight through early teen, through 42 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 2: his twenties into adulthood, as well as dealing with the 43 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: stories of the crimes that he committed. So I thought, gosh, 44 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 2: we've got a very different take on the story. 45 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:55,720 Speaker 1: So set the scene. Where are we when this story starts. 46 00:02:55,639 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: Well, it starts with a murder, and that's kind of 47 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: the best way to introduce the cat characters. In July 48 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,520 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty seven, in Stephenville, Texas, which is southwest seventy 49 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:09,799 Speaker 2: miles southwest of Fort Worth, supervisor at a sandpaper called 50 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,080 Speaker 2: a man in town and says, your daughter has not 51 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,080 Speaker 2: showed up for work two days in a row. And 52 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,440 Speaker 2: his name was Joe Atkins. And Joe went on over 53 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 2: to his daughter's little white bungalow, a little rendered white 54 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:23,800 Speaker 2: bungalow there in the Old Air area of Stephenville, walked 55 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: up to the front door, found at a jar, went 56 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:30,040 Speaker 2: in and found his daughter, Susan Woods, naked on the 57 00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,840 Speaker 2: floor of the bathroom with her upper body plunged into 58 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: a tub full of black water. 59 00:03:34,760 --> 00:03:36,280 Speaker 1: How long had she been in the bathtub? 60 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 2: Two days? Last scene on Sunday night. They found on 61 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 2: a Tuesday night, Susan Woods in the summer of nineteen 62 00:03:43,440 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 2: eighty seven was a very quiet young woman, a factory 63 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:49,680 Speaker 2: worker who had grown up in Stephenville. Quiet as a child, 64 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 2: didn't date close to her parents. Everybody said, you know, 65 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: she was just the sweetest thing, just nice to everybody, 66 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,000 Speaker 2: a little trusting, a little naive. Graduated from Stephenville High 67 00:04:00,120 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: with honors, and within a year or two, having at 68 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 2: that point going to work for a nursing home, she 69 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 2: met a young man, a newcomer to town named Michael Woods. 70 00:04:09,960 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: And Michael came from El Paso. This was the late seventies. 71 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 2: You know, Susan was five to seven, long brown hair. 72 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:22,080 Speaker 2: Michael was a little shorter, but very attractive, certainly to Susan. 73 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:24,520 Speaker 2: And the most notable thing about Michael was at a 74 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 2: time when rural Texas was not only as conservative as 75 00:04:29,120 --> 00:04:32,080 Speaker 2: it may be today, but it was kind of pushing 76 00:04:32,120 --> 00:04:35,320 Speaker 2: back against the excesses of the sixties. Michael had long hair, 77 00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 2: and he was a musician. He stood out in town Stephenville. 78 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,039 Speaker 2: Keep in mind, is bills itself as the cowboy capital 79 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 2: of the world. It is a town then and now 80 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,120 Speaker 2: where you know cowboy hats, ffa jackets, close crop hair 81 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: are most common, and Michael Woods stood out. Michael was 82 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 2: actually just visiting, kind of hanging around unemployed as he 83 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:59,800 Speaker 2: tended to be most of the time, wanted to be 84 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,600 Speaker 2: a position, but nobody in Stevenville wanted to hear rock 85 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: and roll. Let me tell you, they might listen to 86 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 2: Johnny Cash back in the days. And Michael stayed to 87 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: be with Susan, and he hated. He had a bit 88 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:14,880 Speaker 2: of an attitude because, especially when he grew a beard, 89 00:05:15,279 --> 00:05:16,920 Speaker 2: you know, he got picked on. People would call him 90 00:05:16,960 --> 00:05:19,440 Speaker 2: fur face and stuff. And Michael did not look like 91 00:05:19,480 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: anybody else in town. He wore a leather jacket, engineer boots, 92 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,479 Speaker 2: and he drove Harley. Michael was also not one to 93 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:29,120 Speaker 2: suffer any type of abuse. If you said something insulting 94 00:05:29,160 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 2: to Michael, he would pop in the mouth. He was 95 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 2: repeatedly in fights, rarely in a job. He worked at 96 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 2: a sonic, he worked in a cornfield, I mean all 97 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,400 Speaker 2: sorts of jobs that just never really took. And after 98 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,839 Speaker 2: about a year or two of this, around nineteen eighty, 99 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 2: he said, I can't take it anymore. I've got a 100 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: job offered from an uncle. I think he ran an 101 00:05:48,839 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 2: auto repara shot back in l Passo. Come with me 102 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,440 Speaker 2: to l Passol, was trying to make a go up there. 103 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 2: Susan had never been outside Stephenville, but she thought it 104 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 2: sounded like a grand adventure, right, So they go to Steveville, 105 00:06:00,760 --> 00:06:04,359 Speaker 2: and for whatever reason, the job fell through, and within 106 00:06:04,440 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: a matter of weeks they are living in what Susan 107 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,560 Speaker 2: famously said in wonder her letters home on bacon bit sandwiches. 108 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 2: They're not quite living out of the car, as one 109 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:17,359 Speaker 2: report had it, but Michael said they were living in 110 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: an apartment with no furniture. When they couldn't make that happen, 111 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 2: they moved in with his mother and that didn't go 112 00:06:23,920 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: real well either, and they ended up coming back. So 113 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,320 Speaker 2: by let's say early eighty one, they're back in Stephenville. 114 00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,800 Speaker 2: Michael continues to act out. I've got police reports of 115 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 2: fights he got into. He was not happy there. He 116 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:41,440 Speaker 2: had family in Indianapolis, brother, and at least once, and 117 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,680 Speaker 2: it sounds like twice, he moved up to Indianapolis and 118 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 2: she came with him. And then Susan was just never 119 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,320 Speaker 2: happy away from Stephenville for whatever reason, maybe being far 120 00:06:51,400 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 2: away from family or just smalltown Texas. It has it's 121 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 2: a lure. She went up to Indianapolis, stayed with him 122 00:06:57,360 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: a time or two, and came back and Michael says, 123 00:06:59,760 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 2: you know, during their about roughly five years of marriage, 124 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:05,920 Speaker 2: he was gone about half the time. By the summer 125 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,559 Speaker 2: of eighty six, they had moved into this little white 126 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,000 Speaker 2: bungalow by downtown and they were trying to make a 127 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 2: last go of it. As Michael tells that, the final 128 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:20,400 Speaker 2: straw was he had had some success flipping cars, buying 129 00:07:20,400 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: a used car, fixing it up and reselling it. He 130 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: wanted to do this with Holmes. Apparently his brother was 131 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,840 Speaker 2: doing that in Napolis, and he thought he could do 132 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:30,160 Speaker 2: it too. Unfortunately, Michael had no money, and Susan, who 133 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:33,880 Speaker 2: is by now working in sandpaper factory, didn't really want 134 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:38,360 Speaker 2: to invest her money in Michael's new venture. Michael accused 135 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 2: her of emasculating him and taking away his only livelihood, 136 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 2: and so he left. There was a series of letters 137 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,640 Speaker 2: between them. It was heartbreaking because they were not angry 138 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 2: at each other. They loved each other. They both said 139 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: they want to be with each other, but she couldn't 140 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,360 Speaker 2: live outside at Stephenville and Michael couldn't make it work 141 00:07:56,440 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 2: in Stephenville. He came back one last time in February 142 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: of eighty seven, and this would be now four months 143 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,560 Speaker 2: before her murder, and it didn't take and he didn't stay. 144 00:08:05,920 --> 00:08:08,760 Speaker 2: There's a letter in the DA's files in which one 145 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 2: of her co workers said, basically, he gave her an ultimatum, 146 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 2: me or Texas. She chose Texas. 147 00:08:15,160 --> 00:08:19,240 Speaker 1: Did you get a sense that Michael was physically abusive 148 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:20,440 Speaker 1: emotionally abusive? 149 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 2: I talked extensively with Susan's three closest friend, her best girlfriend, 150 00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: the girlfriend's husband, and another young woman. Who were the 151 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:30,400 Speaker 2: three people who went through all this with him, And 152 00:08:30,440 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 2: they said no, Michael was always kind to her. Did 153 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 2: they have arguments, yes, but no, nothing unpleasant until the end, 154 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:42,559 Speaker 2: until February eighty seven. In februaryy seven, when Michael came 155 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,520 Speaker 2: back for their final attempt at or Approchemont, he left. 156 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:47,840 Speaker 2: He took a bunch of her things, and most important 157 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 2: thing was he took their yellow Mustang. And so for 158 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: the next four months after he left, she worked six 159 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,560 Speaker 2: days a week to trying to raise money to get 160 00:08:54,559 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 2: a new car. She was having to have friends take 161 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:58,960 Speaker 2: her to work. But when Michael left, he left behind 162 00:08:58,960 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 2: two things. He left behind a series of folded up 163 00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:06,040 Speaker 2: little paper notes that he put in cabinets. He put 164 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 2: in shirt pockets you put in her underwear drawer, and 165 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 2: they were just all about what a sea word she was, 166 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 2: what an awful person, how this was all her fault. 167 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: Her parents hated him from the word go. Michael tells 168 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,040 Speaker 2: these stories of the father threatening with a gun and 169 00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,200 Speaker 2: things like this. But even worse, Michael left behind a 170 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: thirty minute cassette tape in which he excoriated Susan in 171 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: the most unpleasant way for breaking up the marriage, for 172 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,319 Speaker 2: not allowing him to be a man. And at one 173 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 2: point Susan was so shaken she called in the three friends, Roy, 174 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:41,240 Speaker 2: Cindy her best friend, and Gloria. It said, I've got 175 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:42,600 Speaker 2: to go to work. Can y'all listen to this and 176 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 2: just tell me if I'm crazy because that this scares me? 177 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,680 Speaker 2: And they were all deeply shaken. And by that night 178 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:51,640 Speaker 2: Roy Hayes wonderful guys still alive, came over, nailed all 179 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 2: her windows shut, gave her a gun, and Cindy for 180 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 2: about the next month slept on her couch. Look. Nobody 181 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 2: knew Michael to be violent. The fights that he would 182 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,360 Speaker 2: get in always seemed to be some guy would insult 183 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 2: in me. It was like Michael was out picking fights 184 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:11,400 Speaker 2: with people. So despite the fist fights he'd gotten, and 185 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,440 Speaker 2: nobody really thought of him as a violent guy. But 186 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:16,199 Speaker 2: the fact, does they anyone to find out if he 187 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 2: had that in it? 188 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:21,120 Speaker 1: Was there contact between the two of them between February 189 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: when this escalates in July when her father finds her dead. 190 00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:27,840 Speaker 2: No physical contact. We believed that there might have been 191 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,360 Speaker 2: a phone call or too. I think Michael dimly remembers 192 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 2: a phone call in the letter, but nothing really of significance. 193 00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 2: Once Michael left, she went to a divorce attorney and 194 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 2: filed the horse papers and so between Februar of eighty 195 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:41,520 Speaker 2: seven when he left, over the next three or four months, 196 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 2: it was a pretty dark time for Susan. Initially, she's 197 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 2: working six days a week, trying to get a car. 198 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:49,280 Speaker 2: I mean, this is just basic stuff. She's thirty years old, 199 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,200 Speaker 2: she's never really lived on her own. She either lived 200 00:10:52,200 --> 00:10:54,080 Speaker 2: with her parents or then with Michael, off and on, 201 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:56,959 Speaker 2: and it's a tough time for her. She doesn't really 202 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: have time to socialize. And then after about out three months, 203 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:04,920 Speaker 2: say in the maytime frame, things begin to light. She 204 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: realizes her life is probably not at risk from Michael. 205 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,200 Speaker 2: He hasn't showed up to Killer. She goes out one 206 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 2: night with a group of work friends to the nearby 207 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,679 Speaker 2: town of Granbury. Stephenville was dry at the time and 208 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,439 Speaker 2: flirted with a bartender, and he started coming over a 209 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 2: couple of three Friday nights, watched TV on the couch. 210 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,079 Speaker 2: On the fourth one they had sex, and the next 211 00:11:26,160 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 2: day or so, after a day, Susan calls up another 212 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:30,880 Speaker 2: girlfriend and said, oh my god, you've got to come 213 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,599 Speaker 2: down here. She was hysterical, and she came down and 214 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 2: Susan had dark marks all over her neck. JC apparently 215 00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:40,080 Speaker 2: had gotten a little carried away and given her a 216 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:43,199 Speaker 2: series of hickeys. And it's a measure of Susan's modesty 217 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 2: and Stephenville's modesty. She was paralyzed with fear of going 218 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 2: out in town and having people see this and think 219 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,760 Speaker 2: she was that type of girl. By the end of May, 220 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 2: you know, she was able to get a new car. 221 00:11:54,679 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 2: Roy and Cindy, who are now married all these years later, 222 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,319 Speaker 2: thirty five years later, noticed that she was brightening a little. 223 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:05,360 Speaker 2: There came a night in late July when they said, hey, 224 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: we're going We're taking one of Cindy's young cousins over 225 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:11,880 Speaker 2: to a carnival in a nearby town called Hiko. Why 226 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,320 Speaker 2: don't you come on with us, it'd be good for 227 00:12:13,360 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 2: you to get out, And so she went on over 228 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:18,360 Speaker 2: there and they didn't have much fun for whatever reason. 229 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 2: So they came on back and Roy said, tay, what, 230 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,760 Speaker 2: I'll make it better. Let's all go to Dairy Queen. 231 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 2: So they went to Dairy Queen and Susan, who was demure, 232 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 2: careful about her physical appearance, had a hot fudge Sunday 233 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,280 Speaker 2: and then she did something Cindy said she'd never seen 234 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:35,079 Speaker 2: or done in her entire life, and these kids had 235 00:12:35,080 --> 00:12:38,680 Speaker 2: been best friends from like twelve thirteen. She had another 236 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:43,280 Speaker 2: hot fish Sunday and smiled, and Cindy doesn't remember the 237 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,880 Speaker 2: exact words, but it was very clear that she was 238 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 2: turning a corner. She could see a path forward for 239 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:52,520 Speaker 2: herself and her life, and four nights later she was 240 00:12:52,520 --> 00:12:53,000 Speaker 2: found dead. 241 00:12:53,679 --> 00:12:58,559 Speaker 1: So her father finds her submerged partially in this bathtub. 242 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 1: She's been sexually assaulted. It's summer of eighty seven. He 243 00:13:02,320 --> 00:13:04,319 Speaker 1: calls the police. I have to assume is that the 244 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: first thing that happens. 245 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:07,520 Speaker 2: He steps into the living room, calls him on the 246 00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:10,160 Speaker 2: house phone and then steps out into the yard which 247 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,720 Speaker 2: is pitch dark, and pretty much the whole Stephenville Police 248 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,839 Speaker 2: force shows up. You know. There was clearly pretty nasty 249 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,480 Speaker 2: struggle in the bedroom. The bedroom was topsy turvy. The 250 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:22,720 Speaker 2: mattress was off the box springs and the pillows were 251 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 2: strown everywhere, and the beding was strown everywhere, and there 252 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 2: was an electrical cord that it was laying across the 253 00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 2: bed with the plug in on the floor. When they 254 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,679 Speaker 2: squatted down the side her and lifted her head, they 255 00:13:33,720 --> 00:13:36,720 Speaker 2: saw a red ligature mark. He was suspected that perhaps 256 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:39,440 Speaker 2: the cord had been used on her. As they studied 257 00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:42,320 Speaker 2: the crime scene, the one thing that stood out was 258 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 2: there's no sign of forced entry in a house with 259 00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:47,520 Speaker 2: a you know, everything nailed shut. It looked from all 260 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 2: angles as if Susan had invited her murder into the house. 261 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,199 Speaker 2: And on the living room table there were six cigarette 262 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,680 Speaker 2: buts in an ash tray and an open cann of coke, 263 00:14:00,120 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 2: suggesting that perhaps she had sat and had some cigarettes 264 00:14:04,640 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 2: with whoever it was. But that was it. You know. 265 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:10,439 Speaker 2: They canvassed the neighborhood. They went up and down the street, 266 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 2: nobody had seen anything strange. It was Sunday night. It 267 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,520 Speaker 2: was a quiet Sunday night in Stephenville, Texas. 268 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:19,760 Speaker 1: So what happens next? The investigators, we would assume, would 269 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: look at her inner circle first and find out she 270 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:23,440 Speaker 1: has an ex husband. 271 00:14:23,720 --> 00:14:26,320 Speaker 2: Funny thing happened the next morning. There was a lieutenant 272 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 2: on the force who announced to the gathering the next 273 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 2: morning in the police department that nobody else needed to 274 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:32,720 Speaker 2: work the case. He was going to take it on himself. 275 00:14:33,000 --> 00:14:35,320 Speaker 2: And I talked with an officer who was in the 276 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,240 Speaker 2: room that day, I said, what was that about? He said, 277 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 2: the guy just wanted to be a hero. He knew 278 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 2: we don't have a lot of cases like that, and 279 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:43,120 Speaker 2: he was looking to move up. This guy's name was 280 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:46,000 Speaker 2: Ken Maltby, and I'm sure he was otherwise a terribly 281 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,760 Speaker 2: effective policeman. Early on, from all indications, Lieutenant Maltby focused 282 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,320 Speaker 2: on Michael Woods. The Atkins family, Susan's maiden name was Atkins. 283 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,520 Speaker 2: Was absolutely I mean, it was just obvious Michael Woods 284 00:14:57,520 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: has done this. I mean she was living with the 285 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:04,080 Speaker 2: guy in town, right obviously. Hello. He somehow came back 286 00:15:04,360 --> 00:15:08,760 Speaker 2: and Maltby and a Texas Ranger went up to Indianapolis. 287 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:11,880 Speaker 2: Within forty eight hours of the killing. They had reached 288 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 2: out to Indianapolis PD to interview him, and they had 289 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 2: there had been some interviewing, but he denied everything and 290 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,800 Speaker 2: didn't seem to want to be cooperative. They confronted him 291 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 2: in his front yard and he declined to go back 292 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 2: to Texas, and so Lieutenant Wontby and the Ranger came 293 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:33,440 Speaker 2: back to Texas and about a month later, Lieutenant Maltby 294 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: was transferred onto a narcotic squad to supervisor narcotic squad. 295 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 2: And you know, by the first week of October, and 296 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:41,920 Speaker 2: this is two and a half months after the killing, 297 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,360 Speaker 2: it's orphaned. There's nobody assigned to take this over. So 298 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:48,360 Speaker 2: what happened is one of the original officers, the guy 299 00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:51,520 Speaker 2: who canvassed the bedroom, Donny Hensley, said well, I'll take 300 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:53,440 Speaker 2: it on in a spare time, and he went to 301 00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 2: look for Maltby's notes or to debrief, and he couldn't 302 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:57,640 Speaker 2: get Maltby to talk with him, and he couldn't find 303 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 2: any notes, and Donny said, I don't know what's tell you. 304 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: I'd start over from scratch, and he pretty much did. 305 00:16:03,320 --> 00:16:05,280 Speaker 2: For the next couple of months, you know. He does 306 00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 2: his best to widen the focus of the investigation. He 307 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 2: discovers the bartender in Granberry. By the way, I didn't 308 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,840 Speaker 2: mention they've got prince in the bathroom and on the 309 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 2: coke can. He goes and fingerprints and gives light of 310 00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 2: detector tests to the bartender. He passes. He then brings 311 00:16:22,280 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 2: in Roy Hayes, the best girlfriend's husband, the guy who 312 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,640 Speaker 2: nailed the windows shut. And Roy was a little iffy 313 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,480 Speaker 2: in the eyes of Stephenville because he played dungeons and dragon, 314 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 2: which back in those days carried the faint whiff of 315 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:40,280 Speaker 2: the Satanic. Now Roy's a big old boy, nice kid. 316 00:16:40,680 --> 00:16:43,160 Speaker 2: Roy says, okay, I'll take your light detector test. Sure, 317 00:16:43,280 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 2: So they take him down to Waco to a ranger 318 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 2: station for a light detector test. Does that for about 319 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,320 Speaker 2: an hour, walks out and Donnie says, you did it. 320 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:53,040 Speaker 2: You did not pass, And Roy's like, I did not 321 00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: I did anything to do this. He said, These machines 322 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,360 Speaker 2: do not make a mistake. Roy, I know you did it. 323 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 2: This is just the way it is. About that moment, 324 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 2: the door opens behind him and the ranger who took 325 00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:07,160 Speaker 2: the test comes out. And says, congratulations, mister Hayes, you passed. 326 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 2: To this day, nobody knows what the mix up was. 327 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:13,280 Speaker 2: At that point, Donny Hensley doesn't have a bunch of suspects, 328 00:17:13,520 --> 00:17:15,960 Speaker 2: and you know, everybody in town is saying Roy Hayes, 329 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:20,600 Speaker 2: what he nuts? Everybody knows. Everybody knows it's Michael Woods. 330 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 2: And so Donnie rededicates himself to hounding Michael Woods, who 331 00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 2: remains out of state outside in Indianapolis. He shows his 332 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:32,520 Speaker 2: picture picture of the yellow Mustang to every service station 333 00:17:32,560 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 2: in the county that rings no belts with anyone. Finally 334 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 2: he realizes he's got to take the case to Indianapolis, 335 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,400 Speaker 2: so he goes up there and the Indianapolis PD gives 336 00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:44,199 Speaker 2: him a fancy surveillance van that actually has one of 337 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,199 Speaker 2: these like a submarine periscope out the top, so you 338 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,040 Speaker 2: can sit in the back of this van. And after 339 00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:52,119 Speaker 2: a week or two of surveilling, they see Michael and 340 00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 2: his brother set out a bunch of stuff for garage sale, 341 00:17:54,840 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 2: and they see some items that they believe they can 342 00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: argue we're stolen from Susan. A figure, a fur coat, 343 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:03,800 Speaker 2: this type of thing. So they swoop in the next 344 00:18:03,880 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 2: day with an arrest warm and arrest them all because 345 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:09,320 Speaker 2: they found a roach, a marijuana roach, right you know. 346 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 2: It led to no charges, but it gotten the one 347 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,960 Speaker 2: thing that Donny didn't have, which was Michael's fingerprints. They 348 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:17,879 Speaker 2: needed Michael's fingerprints. Now to this day, Michael will tell 349 00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:20,399 Speaker 2: you he volunteered to give him the Prince and anything 350 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:23,320 Speaker 2: else they wanted on the proviso that it'd be done in. 351 00:18:23,520 --> 00:18:26,160 Speaker 2: In the end, he wasn't going. He didn't trust Texas Comms, 352 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,840 Speaker 2: was not going back to rural Texas where an entire 353 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,120 Speaker 2: town was convinced he was the murder. He just wasn't going. 354 00:18:31,840 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 2: For whatever reason. The Texas police wouldn't go up there 355 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:36,160 Speaker 2: and do it with him, so they felt they had 356 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,560 Speaker 2: to go up and get the fingerprints, which they did. 357 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 2: They came back. Donnie on the flight back from Indianapolis 358 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:45,120 Speaker 2: with the fingerprints, he is filling out the extradition papers 359 00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:48,320 Speaker 2: to bring Michael back. He's so sure that the Prince 360 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 2: will match. Now of course I've given away they don't match, 361 00:18:51,160 --> 00:18:54,359 Speaker 2: and Don's like, there's no way Michael Woods did this. 362 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,720 Speaker 2: How is this happening? Pretty much by the summer of 363 00:18:57,760 --> 00:19:01,639 Speaker 2: eighty eight, by the time Donnie came back from Indianapolis 364 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,040 Speaker 2: with those prints. The investigation was over. 365 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,919 Speaker 1: What happens next? This case goes cold. 366 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,000 Speaker 2: Well, actually, what did happen was the family sued Michael Woods. 367 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,480 Speaker 2: He was the beneficiary on Susan's life inschurch. He was 368 00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,240 Speaker 2: doing something like eleven thousand dollars. I think they sued him, 369 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:19,040 Speaker 2: and Michael would not go back. A judge hit him 370 00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 2: with a judgment finding hum responsible for his death and 371 00:19:22,880 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 2: saying that he had to pay get this seven hundred 372 00:19:25,920 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: thousand dollars anyway, It was never paid, obviously in part 373 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:31,200 Speaker 2: because Michael didn't come back anywhere near where they could 374 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 2: serve him, and then the case was slowly forgotten, not 375 00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,399 Speaker 2: by the family, not by our friends Roy and Cindy, 376 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,240 Speaker 2: but by the rest of the town. Stephen Villain's important 377 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: note just in terms of context, it is not your 378 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 2: classic conservative small town. It's actually a college town in 379 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 2: the middle of farm country. Charlton State is there, and 380 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 2: during those years following the murder, during the nineties, it 381 00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 2: saw an influx of people, but nothing happened in Susan's case. 382 00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 2: Years went by, and finally in two thousand and five, 383 00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,520 Speaker 2: eighteen years later, Michael Woods kind of came to a 384 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,680 Speaker 2: breaking point. Michael never got over this. He wanted to 385 00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:10,880 Speaker 2: be a musician, and he tried to His lawyer says, 386 00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 2: you can't leave this town. They'll get you. They'll get 387 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 2: you if you leave Indianapolis. So he and his brother 388 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,920 Speaker 2: start doing Skinnered and Charlie Daniels around town for thirty 389 00:20:18,920 --> 00:20:21,080 Speaker 2: five dollars a pop. But even that became hard after 390 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 2: the Indianapolis newspaper ran two articles saying that he was 391 00:20:24,760 --> 00:20:28,879 Speaker 2: the focus of murder investigation from Stephenville Well. Michael tried 392 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,560 Speaker 2: to install home alarms. He tried to do this. He 393 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 2: tried to do that. He didn't keep a lot of jobs. 394 00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 2: What he was good at was drinking and taking every 395 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,160 Speaker 2: drug that anybody ever handed it. And he slowly went 396 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 2: to a spiral. He tried therapy that didn't work. Finally, 397 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 2: he says, by the early two thousands, after about fourteen 398 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,200 Speaker 2: or fifteen years, he tried to kill himself. He said 399 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:53,400 Speaker 2: he took three handfuls of tranquilizers and in a rare 400 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 2: bit of levity from Michael's side of the story, he said, 401 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,960 Speaker 2: all it did was put me to sleep for three days, 402 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 2: and I woke up still depressed. In two thousand and five, 403 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 2: he was playing a birthday party, a friend's birthday party 404 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,160 Speaker 2: with his brother, and afterwards it was just about the 405 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,600 Speaker 2: anniversary of Susan's death, and he walked out in the backyard. 406 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:13,280 Speaker 2: He was crying, and the host, who was just an acquaintance, 407 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:15,760 Speaker 2: walked out and said, Michael, what's wrong. And he explained 408 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,159 Speaker 2: that it was the anniversary of his wife's death and 409 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 2: he can't go back to a graver and thin because 410 00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,040 Speaker 2: the whole town thinks he did it. And this woman 411 00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 2: whose name was Barbara Gary, who has the briefest of 412 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:28,640 Speaker 2: cameos in this, says, well, that's just awful. And she 413 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:30,600 Speaker 2: she goes in the next morning and gets on her 414 00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:34,520 Speaker 2: computer and she fires off an email to the Stephenville 415 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,760 Speaker 2: Police saying, I really wish you'd figure out this for 416 00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 2: cocta case, because this poor man is falling, falling apart 417 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,560 Speaker 2: because you have it solved and found the actual killer. 418 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,240 Speaker 2: What had happened by then was a new sergeant named 419 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 2: Don Miller had taken over looking at a handful of 420 00:21:51,119 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 2: cold cases that they had in Stephenville, and he knew 421 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:57,720 Speaker 2: that the fingerprints didn't matage Michael had never been told. 422 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,000 Speaker 2: He never understood what happened. Once they took his fingerprints. 423 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:02,520 Speaker 2: Don looked at that and said, this God didn't do it. 424 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 2: And I bet you if I'm ever going to solve it, 425 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:07,840 Speaker 2: I need him to help me solve it. Don Miller 426 00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,439 Speaker 2: calls and Michael said, I don't want to talk to you. 427 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,280 Speaker 2: Don says, I understand that, but I'm your only hope 428 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 2: of ever ending this. And so Michael says, okay, what 429 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 2: do you want? He said, I need to come up 430 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,000 Speaker 2: and there's this new thing called DNA, and I need 431 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:21,840 Speaker 2: to come up and get some DNA from you. And 432 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:24,440 Speaker 2: if you didn't do it, Michael, I can clear you. 433 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:26,040 Speaker 2: You'll be able to get on with your life. 434 00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:29,639 Speaker 1: What had they collected sperm samples? I'm assuming saliva. 435 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,000 Speaker 2: There was DNA off the coke can. 436 00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: And cigarettes, right, Yeah, so they had done a good job. 437 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,960 Speaker 2: Yes, that's one thing you can point. They did a 438 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:39,679 Speaker 2: good job. And Don said, well, I want to come 439 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 2: up there, and Michael said yes, and then Michael said no. 440 00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 2: Don had already gotten plane tickets, so he and his 441 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,520 Speaker 2: buddy just went on. Anyway, they get up there and 442 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 2: it's like January or February. You know, it's twenty five 443 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 2: degrees in Indianapolis, and they're wearing these texts lightweight Texas 444 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,360 Speaker 2: sports jackets. They're freezing. When they finally found their way 445 00:22:55,400 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 2: to a fairly modest home where Michael and his brother 446 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:00,159 Speaker 2: were living, and they get up there on the on 447 00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 2: the front porch and knock knock, and Michael actually opens 448 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 2: the door, and Don says who he is? And Michael's like, 449 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 2: I told you I Michael talked to you. Why are 450 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,399 Speaker 2: you here? Don just keeps talking. It's just the load 451 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 2: of just Michael. We need your DNA. This is your 452 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 2: only hopelah blah blah blah blah bah blah. And after 453 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,920 Speaker 2: I don't know ten fifteen minutes its Michael's like, okay, fine, 454 00:23:16,240 --> 00:23:19,000 Speaker 2: take the DNA and get off the caddian porch. And 455 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 2: Dona turns to his partner and says, okay, let's do 456 00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:24,399 Speaker 2: the DNA. The problem was neither one of them had 457 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:27,520 Speaker 2: ever used DNA kit before, and the partner says, I 458 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 2: don't really know how to do this, and Don says, 459 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: are their instructions. So they read the instructions and took 460 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,199 Speaker 2: a cheap swab send it down to Ranger station in Waco, 461 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,160 Speaker 2: and it came back clear the DNA and the fingerprints 462 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,520 Speaker 2: didn't match. DNA didn't match, and Don was able to 463 00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:45,359 Speaker 2: call Michael and say, Michael, and you're cleared, and Michael 464 00:23:45,400 --> 00:24:02,240 Speaker 2: began to cry and hung up. Great news for Michael, right, 465 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 2: Not so great news for Donald Miller. He now has 466 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:08,159 Speaker 2: no suspects. However, what he has that they didn't have 467 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 2: in nineteen eighty seven is the FBI now has a 468 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,679 Speaker 2: fingerprint database. Don wanted to go to take their fingerprint 469 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 2: card to Washington. His chief said, uh, uh, I'm not 470 00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 2: paying for you to go to Washington. Then he found 471 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,919 Speaker 2: out that the Rangers had access to it, so he 472 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:25,919 Speaker 2: just took the fingerprints down to Austin and gave gave 473 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 2: him the original card and a few days later he 474 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 2: gets a call back and he says, you got to 475 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 2: you know, you got a penning pencil on. Don says, uh, sure. 476 00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:37,040 Speaker 2: The fingerprints come back to Joseph Scott Hatley. Don writes 477 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,240 Speaker 2: his name down and Don asked the guy who's that 478 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,399 Speaker 2: and the guy says, I don't know, but it's from 479 00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 2: an arm robbery in Las Vegas, Nevada in nineteen eighty eight. 480 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 2: This is three states away. If this Joseph Scott Hatley 481 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 2: has any tide Stephenville. He calls the DA and says, 482 00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,280 Speaker 2: do we know a Joseph Scott Hatley? And the DA says, 483 00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 2: you bet we do, and then Don says what he says, 484 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,480 Speaker 2: great case. In eighty eight he went for a grand 485 00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 2: jury and nobilly and he was long gone. No, we 486 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,639 Speaker 2: didn't know who he was, but his mother and I 487 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:10,280 Speaker 2: believe sister still lived in town. I wouldn't say a prominent, 488 00:25:10,280 --> 00:25:12,720 Speaker 2: but they are a well known Stephenville family. His late 489 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:16,920 Speaker 2: father had owned several businesses, including a Texico station. Several 490 00:25:16,920 --> 00:25:19,280 Speaker 2: of them had worked, including a sister had worked for 491 00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 2: the city. And so now Don realized I have a suspect. 492 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:24,520 Speaker 1: What is nobil? 493 00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 2: Nobil means that they took the case to a grand 494 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 2: jury and the grand jury declined to indict. 495 00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: So what's the next step with Joseph Scott Hatley? What 496 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 1: do we know about what he's doing when this is 497 00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 1: all happening. 498 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:40,560 Speaker 2: You know, he was everybody considered him just a normal kid. 499 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,879 Speaker 2: Beaver Cleaver born in nineteen sixty five, so it was 500 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,400 Speaker 2: four years younger than me. I grew up a few 501 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 2: counties away was possessed of a burning anger incite him 502 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: that he was never able to explain. He says that 503 00:25:51,200 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 2: as early as the age of ten or eleven, he 504 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:57,359 Speaker 2: was planning a school, a Columbine style school massacre. You know, 505 00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,960 Speaker 2: he developed thoughts of sexual and other types of vible. 506 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 2: What really changed for him was when he was twelve thirteen, fourteen, 507 00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:06,760 Speaker 2: he discovered two things that kind of became the great 508 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,119 Speaker 2: loves of his life. Beer, which soon became vodka. He 509 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:12,920 Speaker 2: became the type of drinker that, at least on weekends 510 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,600 Speaker 2: when he wasn't working, would start drinking vodka when he 511 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,200 Speaker 2: woke up in the morning and would still be drinking 512 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,320 Speaker 2: at night. In pornography. He had a stashup born in. 513 00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:23,359 Speaker 2: I talked to a couple of experts and who just said, 514 00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:27,720 Speaker 2: this is really really typical of somebody who acts out 515 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 2: sexual violence. You know, nobody really saw him as anything 516 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,560 Speaker 2: other than a pretty normal kid. By senior year of 517 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,320 Speaker 2: high school, Scott had lost some of his baby fit 518 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 2: at least learn how to talk to girls, and decided 519 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 2: for a career he was going to go for the 520 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,760 Speaker 2: Air Force, a weapon specialist at basis around Texas. Then 521 00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:49,080 Speaker 2: upon a high school graduation, he goes off to an 522 00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: Air Force training base of some type at Fort Lewis. 523 00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 2: I think it is outside Denver, And what matters for 524 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:56,919 Speaker 2: our story is that it's there that he meets his 525 00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,320 Speaker 2: first girl. She's a quiet, serious, dark haired young woman 526 00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,159 Speaker 2: that we never named. They both drank heavily, and Scott 527 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,520 Speaker 2: said it was love at first sight. And they're very young, 528 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 2: they're very inexperienced, and on a whim they got married, 529 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 2: and their parents and their commanding officers were pretty horrified, 530 00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,800 Speaker 2: but they were married. She decides to join up full time. 531 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 2: He decides not to, but they agree he'll follow her. 532 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 2: So she gets assigned to the island of the Pacific 533 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 2: Ocean island of Guam, and so he follows her out 534 00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,760 Speaker 2: to Guam, and you know, they're apart full It's set 535 00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 2: couple of months. The moment they reunited, he realized the 536 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 2: fire was, if not out, it was flickering. He says, 537 00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,680 Speaker 2: there was a story in her eyes I couldn't read. 538 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:46,679 Speaker 2: He begins drinking even more heavily. The drinking turns to fights. 539 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 2: She starts going out by herself, and the turning point 540 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,919 Speaker 2: comes one night when she came back after partying. She 541 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 2: came back alone, and he had very strong sense, based 542 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:58,359 Speaker 2: on his read of the situation, that she'd been unfaithful 543 00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 2: and to him, it was as if his entire life 544 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,959 Speaker 2: had exploded and she betrayed him. In his mind, he 545 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 2: had been raised very religious, the at least with the 546 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 2: type of family that debated scripture at the dinner table, 547 00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:12,440 Speaker 2: and so he starts praying that God take care of this, 548 00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:14,840 Speaker 2: fix this for me. And after a period of time, 549 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,320 Speaker 2: God hasn't fixed it. So he said, well, if God's 550 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 2: not gonna help me, I'm going to reach out to Satan. 551 00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,280 Speaker 2: Problem was, she didn't exactly know how to reach out 552 00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:27,440 Speaker 2: to Satan. He remembers that from every movie he's ever seen, 553 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 2: it seems to always involve a lot of candles. So 554 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 2: he gets up every candle in the house and lights 555 00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:34,439 Speaker 2: them all over the living room one night while his 556 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: wife is out, and prays to Satan that he will 557 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:40,880 Speaker 2: take his wife's life so that he will get her 558 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,720 Speaker 2: life insurance policy and he can go back to Texas. Well, 559 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,960 Speaker 2: that doesn't really much work. The praying to Satan seems 560 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,040 Speaker 2: to be pretty much a one off thing. But I 561 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,320 Speaker 2: will say that in the manifesto. It's something he loops 562 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 2: back to several times, wondering if the pact that he 563 00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,680 Speaker 2: offers satany if that explained the things that he did 564 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: or in life. So he calls his mom. His mom says, 565 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,840 Speaker 2: come on home. He does. They divorce, and you know 566 00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 2: barely what. A couple of years after leaving home, Scott 567 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,920 Speaker 2: finds himself living with his parents, going back to work 568 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,880 Speaker 2: for his dad, driving the back roads around Stephenville, brooding 569 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:20,400 Speaker 2: in the brown pickup that his parents bought him for graduation, 570 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:23,520 Speaker 2: listening to his eight tracks of Motley Crue with no 571 00:29:23,640 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 2: sense really of where he's going to go. The one 572 00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,239 Speaker 2: thing I can say he tried to do too. He 573 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 2: did two things that were kind of new. One he 574 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: started asking people he wanted to reinvent himself, obviously, so 575 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:36,560 Speaker 2: he started asking people if they'd call him Joseph instead 576 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 2: of Scott. I don't think anybody actually did that. And 577 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 2: he invented what became his favorite drink, the thing that 578 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 2: he would drink every evening and pretty much all day. 579 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:47,640 Speaker 2: He called it v syrup, and it was vodka, koffserup 580 00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 2: and pepsi, which he put in a forty ounce foam 581 00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:53,080 Speaker 2: sonic cup, and if you're from Texas, we all know 582 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 2: sonic cups. And he would drink this morning, noon, or night. 583 00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 2: About his only social outlet was at his sister, Regina's home. 584 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 2: She was married at a few years older. They'd always 585 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: been close. He would go over there and most nights, 586 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 2: certainly on the weekend, Regina would convene a group of 587 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,320 Speaker 2: people around the round table in her kitchen. They started 588 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 2: calling themselves members of the round Table. And it was Roy, 589 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:17,760 Speaker 2: and it was Cindy, and it was some other friends. 590 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,080 Speaker 2: And they would sit there and drink and play cards, 591 00:30:20,120 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 2: because that's pretty much all there was to do in Stephenville, Texas, 592 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 2: nineteen eighty eight. And you know, they all saw that 593 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:28,000 Speaker 2: he was drinking a lot, that he was in some distress, 594 00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:29,480 Speaker 2: but they figured, you know, he'd grow out of it 595 00:30:29,520 --> 00:30:32,160 Speaker 2: once his divorce went through. And that is basically the 596 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 2: story of Scott Hatley until fateful night the middle of 597 00:30:35,560 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 2: July nineteen eighty eight, when a new face appears at 598 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 2: the round table in Regina's kitchen, and it's Susan Woods 599 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: who showed up for one night. And in his manifesto, 600 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 2: Scott Hatley says that they engaged in some drunken flirting 601 00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:50,840 Speaker 2: both ruins and they were like, that's just crazy. He 602 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 2: was hot, he was just drunk, but that was enough. 603 00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:57,600 Speaker 2: That was the hook, the flicker, the moment that ended 604 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 2: Susan Woods's life. About a week or ten days later, 605 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 2: no doubt, after a long night driving around in his 606 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 2: brown pickup drinking his v syrup, he shows up unannounced 607 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 2: on Sunday night at Susan's home and she lets him. 608 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:14,520 Speaker 1: In what happens with Don Miller. Next he gets this 609 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: hit on the fingerprint database and Joseph Scott Hatlee is 610 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:21,400 Speaker 1: just floating about right now. 611 00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:26,000 Speaker 2: Right after the murder, he raped a girl and after 612 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:28,680 Speaker 2: that he had flat down thinking that he was going 613 00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:30,840 Speaker 2: to be arrested for the rape, and he went to 614 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 2: Las Vegas and ended up robbing a shoe store and 615 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,800 Speaker 2: they arrested him. He did about one hundred and twenty 616 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 2: days in a youth offender program. He kept thinking, well, 617 00:31:38,160 --> 00:31:39,960 Speaker 2: they're gonna come. Stephenville is gonna come in any moment 618 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:41,480 Speaker 2: and rest me for the rape, and no doubt they're 619 00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:43,680 Speaker 2: going to now make the connection to the murder. They 620 00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,719 Speaker 2: never did. He came back to Stephenville and the paranoia. 621 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 2: Lived pretty close to the police station. He could see 622 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:51,960 Speaker 2: him coming out at six am and six pm and 623 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 2: the cruisers. He just thought it was a matter of time. 624 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:55,880 Speaker 2: So his older brother was a long distance truck driver, 625 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,720 Speaker 2: and Scott moved to Nashville and became a truck driver. 626 00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,760 Speaker 2: Apparently he did that for about five years. Says he 627 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 2: was pretty good at it. Unfortunately, as some truck drivers do, 628 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,600 Speaker 2: he started taking amphetamines and ran into another truck. Lost 629 00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 2: that job, ended up as a supervisor in a grocery warehouse. 630 00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,000 Speaker 2: You know, he started to build a life. The years 631 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,000 Speaker 2: went by since the murder. Five ten years, he married, 632 00:32:18,040 --> 00:32:22,000 Speaker 2: he had two kids, and around nearly two thousands, he 633 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 2: was doing well enough in his job that they offered 634 00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 2: him a transfer to be a supervisor. Apparently this was 635 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 2: a promotion to a warehouse in round Rock, Texas, which 636 00:32:31,960 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: is a suburb north of Austin. By two thousand and six, 637 00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 2: when Don matched up the fingerprints, he was a supervisor 638 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,800 Speaker 2: down in round Rock. You know, he worked nights and 639 00:32:43,840 --> 00:32:45,600 Speaker 2: so and he slept days, and that's what he was 640 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,440 Speaker 2: doing that day in June two thousand and six, when 641 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:49,680 Speaker 2: Don Miller asked the round Rock police to bring him 642 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:50,360 Speaker 2: in for questioning. 643 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: Is this an open and shutcase for Don Miller? 644 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:53,280 Speaker 2: Yep? 645 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:54,240 Speaker 1: Does he confess? 646 00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,160 Speaker 2: Well, you know, initially Don didn't know what to make 647 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:02,520 Speaker 2: of this about Joe's Scott Hatley, and he got there 648 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 2: the rape file from the DA and he's going through it. 649 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 2: And I've looked at this report. It's like a four 650 00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 2: paid single space report and down deep in the middle 651 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,560 Speaker 2: of it the girl who he was raping and it 652 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 2: lasted sixty eight hours in a local park out on 653 00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 2: the edge of town. She ran from him. At one 654 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,120 Speaker 2: point he chased her and fell on top of her 655 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,000 Speaker 2: and he says, you mind me or I'll kill you. 656 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,880 Speaker 2: And I've done it before. And when Don saw that, 657 00:33:25,920 --> 00:33:28,719 Speaker 2: he realized that's the guy. So when Don shows up 658 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:30,840 Speaker 2: and round rock, he has no doubt that Joseph Scott 659 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,840 Speaker 2: Hatley is the guy. He gets DNA, he talks to him. 660 00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,360 Speaker 2: Hatlee is very blase, Oh, my dad's sex Withether, I 661 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,080 Speaker 2: don't know. And as Don told me, if that's a 662 00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 2: red flag right there, if you're accused of murder, you're 663 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 2: denying it up and down. You're not you know, you're 664 00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 2: not being blase about it. So Hatlee went home last 665 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:50,440 Speaker 2: that night. As he writes in his manifesto, he knew 666 00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 2: what was going to happen the next day, and this 667 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:55,040 Speaker 2: was his last time to make a run for it. 668 00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:57,600 Speaker 2: He says, you know, was I stupid for going back 669 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:00,840 Speaker 2: in the next day? No, I was tired. He went 670 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 2: back in the next day. There was a lot more 671 00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:04,600 Speaker 2: questioning in that night, and when they let him go, 672 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,440 Speaker 2: he was out in an eye hoop with his family 673 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 2: of four. They'd stepped into parking lot and everybody else 674 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,640 Speaker 2: got into a van and he stood there and lit 675 00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:15,520 Speaker 2: a cigar And when he let the scar of the 676 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,520 Speaker 2: the round Rock cops came out and they rested him 677 00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:20,480 Speaker 2: on domestic abuse case for his wife. But while he 678 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,120 Speaker 2: was being held on that, Don filed on him for 679 00:34:23,160 --> 00:34:25,759 Speaker 2: the murder. Brought him back to Stephenville, and you know, 680 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:27,840 Speaker 2: it was at that moment that the town kind of 681 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 2: had to come to grips with what had happened. You know, 682 00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 2: there was a different town that it had been. But 683 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,680 Speaker 2: you know, when Don sat down with people like Susan's 684 00:34:35,719 --> 00:34:38,759 Speaker 2: father and his friends, you know, they just didn't want 685 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,680 Speaker 2: to believe it. They're like, well, you're just wrong. It's 686 00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:42,840 Speaker 2: Michael Woods. Why haven't you gotten Michael Woods. Well, it 687 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 2: doesn't match. It's that Joseph Scott Halley. We don't know Joseph. Well, 688 00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:48,360 Speaker 2: it's Sydney Hollmark's cousin wall He's a good boy. He 689 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:51,799 Speaker 2: didn't do it. But in the end there was as 690 00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,360 Speaker 2: we were saying in the article, there was no dramatic 691 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,919 Speaker 2: purple walk. There's no tiary confessions. He cut a deal 692 00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:01,000 Speaker 2: for thirty years. Could have been longer, but Susan's family 693 00:35:01,040 --> 00:35:02,200 Speaker 2: didn't want the attention to try. 694 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: How old was he when all this happened In two 695 00:35:04,160 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: thousand and six. 696 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:07,760 Speaker 2: When he was arrested, he was forty, went off to Huntsville, 697 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,960 Speaker 2: came down with bladder cancer, which went into a mission. 698 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 2: They let him out after I want to say, eleven years. What. Yeah, 699 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:15,360 Speaker 2: he came out and went to Halfway House in Midland. 700 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 2: He was serfacing trucks at the beginning of the pandemic. 701 00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:20,759 Speaker 2: He was laid off and he went to live in 702 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,400 Speaker 2: an RV by his daughter outside Abilene, and the cancer 703 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,400 Speaker 2: came back and he died and a fellow bought the 704 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:31,040 Speaker 2: RV where he died, and as he was going through 705 00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 2: it found all these pictures of Don and Susan, and 706 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:35,439 Speaker 2: he found the manifesto and he gave it to Don, 707 00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:38,600 Speaker 2: and Don ultimately got it to me. You know, this 708 00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:41,760 Speaker 2: was not a news story. It had been on forensic files, 709 00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,920 Speaker 2: but the manifesto. Having the manifesto, I I mean, I 710 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:48,440 Speaker 2: could actually now tell the full story. It only took 711 00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,600 Speaker 2: me about three months to do it. I mean, it's 712 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:53,719 Speaker 2: a fairly small cast of characters, maybe eight people. And 713 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,680 Speaker 2: after I turned it into Texas Monthly, after a month 714 00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:59,280 Speaker 2: or two after that, we started making it into a podcast. 715 00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:04,200 Speaker 1: Do you believe everything in that manifesto? Do you think 716 00:36:04,239 --> 00:36:08,720 Speaker 1: that this was really Joseph Scott Hatlee on a page 717 00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:09,719 Speaker 1: for you? 718 00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 2: I actually kind of believe he was being honest with himself. 719 00:36:14,080 --> 00:36:16,600 Speaker 2: What I have a hard time believing is that a 720 00:36:16,640 --> 00:36:19,239 Speaker 2: lot of the things that he was making excuses. You know, 721 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:22,600 Speaker 2: he was an unhappy kid. Maybe his mom was mean 722 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 2: to him a time or two, and so suddenly he 723 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 2: blames her for an unhappy childhood, and nobody saw any 724 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:32,000 Speaker 2: of that. I did talk to one expert that said, 725 00:36:32,000 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: the facts of it don't matter. What matters what he thought, 726 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,200 Speaker 2: what he believed. So many people who do things like 727 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:40,480 Speaker 2: this are reacting to some type of childhood powerlessness, and 728 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,640 Speaker 2: for whatever reason, he clearly felt that I believe the booze. 729 00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:46,879 Speaker 2: I believe, I believe the porn, I believe the stuff 730 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,080 Speaker 2: about the marriage, and the said yeah, I believe. I 731 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:51,600 Speaker 2: believe most of this. I have to say. Running this 732 00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:54,520 Speaker 2: behind all the people who were closest to him in life, 733 00:36:54,600 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 2: you know, there was nothing to argue with factually. Now, 734 00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:01,600 Speaker 2: how honest is he being about his internal landscape? That 735 00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,720 Speaker 2: is for a reader or in this case, a listener 736 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 2: to decide. But let's say we understood sixty or seventy 737 00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:09,480 Speaker 2: percent of the facts before his manifesto. I think with 738 00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:11,680 Speaker 2: the manifesto you get up to about ninety eight percent 739 00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:15,080 Speaker 2: of the facts. It completed what was already a compelling 740 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 2: story for me. 741 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,759 Speaker 1: Did Joe Atkins and the Atkins family finally accept that 742 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:24,160 Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Hatley was the killer and not Michael Woods, 743 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:25,440 Speaker 1: the jerk ex husband. 744 00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:29,799 Speaker 2: I don't know they've passed, but I'm told they reluctantly 745 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,680 Speaker 2: had to. Nobody ever came back and apologized to Michael Woods. 746 00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: Has he turned out to be okay? Since this has happened, ish. 747 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,360 Speaker 2: I've reported stuff around the World for The Wall Street Journal, 748 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,399 Speaker 2: for Randy Fair. I've met my share of people who've 749 00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:46,200 Speaker 2: been in pow camps and abuse and torture, and you know, 750 00:37:46,239 --> 00:37:48,719 Speaker 2: there is that sense when you're sitting in front of 751 00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,279 Speaker 2: someone cave that someone's been through a trauma. There was 752 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 2: a sense when Michael that he'd been through a trauma. 753 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 2: This was a guy who had a rough life, and 754 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:58,520 Speaker 2: so I was I wondered, how lucid is this guy 755 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 2: going to be? And he was one hundred percent. He'd 756 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,040 Speaker 2: given them a lot of thought. 757 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:04,960 Speaker 1: You and I come from the same world of print. 758 00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:07,680 Speaker 1: You write these stories and you have all these words 759 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:10,239 Speaker 1: where you're describing the victim, you're describing the killer, you're 760 00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:14,320 Speaker 1: describing emotions. You're trying to get that across to the reader. 761 00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,280 Speaker 1: And now we're in this audio format where you don't 762 00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: have to do as much explaining. You can just hear it. 763 00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,120 Speaker 1: You can hear the laughter and the joy, you can 764 00:38:23,160 --> 00:38:26,399 Speaker 1: hear the sorrow and someone's voices. It's very, I think 765 00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,040 Speaker 1: liberating in a lot of ways. 766 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,880 Speaker 2: It is there's no substitute for the immediacy of hearing 767 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:35,080 Speaker 2: that person's voice in your ear. And I got very, 768 00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 2: very lucky, Kate. I got very, very lucky. You know. 769 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,920 Speaker 1: On this show and all the shows I do, we 770 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:42,960 Speaker 1: talk a lot about the importance of focusing in on 771 00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 1: the victim, and I know that you have been able 772 00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,560 Speaker 1: to do both. Who do we meet in the podcast? 773 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: Who can illuminate Susan's character? Is it Roy and Cindy? 774 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,800 Speaker 2: Roy and Sindy. You're great because in their telling of 775 00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:59,279 Speaker 2: Susan's life, it's not defined by what happened at the end. 776 00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,759 Speaker 2: They prefer to remember the young woman who brought a 777 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:05,480 Speaker 2: smile on their face and their laughter, and the joy 778 00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,520 Speaker 2: that they have of sharing with you and bringing her 779 00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:11,000 Speaker 2: back to life for people who would never know her 780 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,160 Speaker 2: is so infectious. And the producer, at one point, the 781 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,719 Speaker 2: wonderful producer, Brian stanfordson, are you at all concerned that 782 00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,879 Speaker 2: we're telling this fairly dark story and these people are 783 00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 2: in hysterics laughing about, you know, sneaking beer. I said, no, 784 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,279 Speaker 2: this can't be dirge and funereal. We must allow that. 785 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:32,000 Speaker 2: So I think they do the best job of illuminating 786 00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:34,600 Speaker 2: the character of Susan. And then Michael, he would tell 787 00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,759 Speaker 2: you probably that she was the only one we hear her. 788 00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:50,520 Speaker 3: Love If you love historical true crime stories, check out 789 00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 3: the audio versions of my books The Ghost Club, All 790 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,839 Speaker 3: That Is Wicked and American Sherlock. This has been an 791 00:39:56,880 --> 00:40:00,879 Speaker 3: exactly right production. Our senior producer is a Lexi Amirosi. 792 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:05,720 Speaker 3: Our associate producer is Christina Chamberlain. This episode was mixed 793 00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:09,640 Speaker 3: by John Bradley. Curtis Heath is our composer. Artwork by 794 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:14,160 Speaker 3: Nick Toga. Executive produced by Georgia Hardstark, Karen Kilgarriff and 795 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,360 Speaker 3: Danielle Kramer. Follow Wicked Words on Instagram and Facebook at 796 00:40:18,440 --> 00:40:21,920 Speaker 3: tenfold more Wicked and on Twitter at tenfold More. And 797 00:40:22,000 --> 00:40:23,960 Speaker 3: if you know of a historical crime that could use 798 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 3: some attention from the crew at tenfold more Wicked, email 799 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,520 Speaker 3: us at info at tenfoldmorewicked dot com. We'll also take 800 00:40:31,560 --> 00:40:34,760 Speaker 3: your suggestions for true crime authors for Wicked Words