WEBVTT - Bonus Ep 3: You’re Only as Good as Your Model Feels 0:00:06.519 --> 0:00:06.880 Novel. 0:00:11.280 --> 0:00:14.680 Hey listeners, I'm your host, Ellie Flynn. Thanks for joining 0:00:14.760 --> 0:00:18.239 me on our third and final bonus episode. Before we 0:00:18.280 --> 0:00:20.799 get started, I just wanted to let you know that 0:00:20.880 --> 0:00:25.119 this episode contains swearing and some very explicit sexual language. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:30.440 It also contains frank discussions around pornography. This episode certainly 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.160 comes with a big explicit content warning, but it's also 0:00:33.240 --> 0:00:33.720 very fun. 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:38.760 Now. 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:41.879 It's not always easy reporting stories like the one we 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.640 uncovered in The Bunnie Trap, and once we started investigating 0:00:45.640 --> 0:00:49.440 this series, we quickly found that most interviews were heavy 0:00:49.560 --> 0:00:54.200 and difficult, both for the contributors and for the production team. 0:00:54.400 --> 0:00:56.720 In journalism school, you're often. 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.240 Taught to end a difficult interview on a lighter note 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:01.720 to help bring the contributor out of the tough topics 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:05.560 you've been discussing. After everything we've been through together in 0:01:05.600 --> 0:01:08.319 The Bonnie Trap, we thought we should end the whole 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:12.840 series on that lighter note. We're going to do that 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:17.720 by bringing you an interview that wasn't heavy or traumatic. Instead, 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:21.280 it was a riotis and fun rollercoaster ride with this 0:01:21.600 --> 0:01:22.199 iconic duo. 0:01:23.240 --> 0:01:29.360 I'm Hally Randall. I'm a second generation female erotic photographer 0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.160 director and I am sus Randall's daughter. 0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:38.120 Hey, I'm sus Randal and I'm an old fart living 0:01:38.160 --> 0:01:42.800 in the mountains on a thirty acre ranch. I just 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.320 handle the ranch. I bully my ranch manager. 0:01:47.240 --> 0:01:49.960 Sus is much more than that. She's actually a bit 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:51.240 of a legend. Ugh. 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.160 So, Mom, you could just say saying like, I'm Sus Randal, 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:59.520 I'm an erotic photographer and filmmaker, and I was one 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:03.000 of the first female photographers at Playboy something like that. 0:02:02.880 --> 0:02:06.440 That sounds very boring, Yeah, don't worry. The rest of 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.880 your interview is so fascinating. Like in a one boring 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:10.760 sentence that just says who you are. 0:02:11.560 --> 0:02:20.360 Ah, Okay, So I'm Sus Randal and I'm a naughty photographer. 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:25.440 Susan Holly's work covers the full spectrum of raunchy because 0:02:25.440 --> 0:02:27.639 while they both shoot the kind of glamour content you've 0:02:27.639 --> 0:02:30.360 come to know in this series, their work goes beyond 0:02:30.360 --> 0:02:34.480 what we focused on. They're both photographers and pornographers, and 0:02:34.520 --> 0:02:38.040 that's its most extreme. Their work involves elaborate film sets 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:42.200 and porn scenes. I wanted to speak to this mother 0:02:42.320 --> 0:02:45.200 daughter duo to understand what it's like to succeed as 0:02:45.200 --> 0:02:46.480 a photographer. 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:46.519 In this world. 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:50.359 Their careers mirror the evolution of the glamour industry, from 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:53.240 parties at the infamous Playboy Mansion to the rise of 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:57.120 internet porn. In the main series, you heard about how 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.320 guys with cameras like Luis Gomes operates. These two they 0:03:01.360 --> 0:03:04.000 hold the key to making it big in this business. 0:03:04.680 --> 0:03:07.240 You see, Sus has a philosophy. 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:07.200 In her work. 0:03:07.960 --> 0:03:09.120 I had great fun. 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:10.359 Fun. 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:14.000 That was Suess's special source because it wasn't just Suess 0:03:14.000 --> 0:03:19.920 who had fun, her models did too. I'm Ellie Flynn 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:22.200 and from the team at Novel This is the Bunny 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.720 Trap Bonus episode three. You're only as good as your 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:41.240 model feels. Sus Randall has had a long and glittering 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:46.040 career in glamour photography. She's shot iconic playmates and was 0:03:46.080 --> 0:03:49.040 the first woman to shoot page three for the Sun newspaper. 0:03:49.680 --> 0:03:52.120 And if you're from the UK, you know what that means. 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.520 SUS's journey to becoming an acclaimed erotic photographer started somewhere 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:01.360 you might not expect. Worcestershire School in the sleepy English 0:04:01.360 --> 0:04:02.920 countryside didn't suit her. 0:04:03.760 --> 0:04:06.640 I was encouraged by my parents to be rebellious, not 0:04:06.760 --> 0:04:11.760 to take nonsense from bossy teachers, so I'm surprised that 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:14.400 was never thrown out. 0:04:14.800 --> 0:04:17.600 Sus moved to London and became a nurse. So in 0:04:17.640 --> 0:04:20.680 the sixties, when sus was twenty two, she lived with 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:24.320 seven other nurses in Earl's Court. One night, they hosted 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.360 a party that would prove crucial for her future career. 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:30.680 That's where she met a guy called Humphrey, who'd been 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.000 specifically invited to meet her best friend. 0:04:33.520 --> 0:04:36.920 I was wearing a top then showed my stomach and 0:04:36.960 --> 0:04:40.039 he got really excited, and I got shy, so I 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:44.680 went upstairs and changed into an ordinary shirt, and then 0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.000 after a couple of drinks, I went and put it 0:04:47.040 --> 0:04:50.840 back on again, and he knew I was his and 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:52.120 I stole him. 0:04:52.680 --> 0:04:55.760 Humphrey was a writer and director from South Africa. He 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:58.719 was struggling to finish his first book, and Susan's wage 0:04:58.720 --> 0:05:00.880 as a nurse was barely enough to cover the basics 0:05:00.920 --> 0:05:03.880 of life in London. Humphrey had always dreamed of a 0:05:03.880 --> 0:05:06.040 life of fame, though, and so he was the one 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:08.800 who first nudged sues towards the UK glamour industry. 0:05:09.440 --> 0:05:10.640 It's all his fault. 0:05:10.800 --> 0:05:15.960 Really, he persuaded me to answer an ad for nude modeling. 0:05:16.400 --> 0:05:18.159 I ended up being quite a good model. 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:21.279 Although I had short legs, I knew how to move 0:05:21.400 --> 0:05:22.360 and how to groove. 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:27.000 Nude modeling soon overtook her nursing. But then Sue's me 0:05:27.080 --> 0:05:28.919 a photographer who gave her some advice. 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:32.520 He said, for Heaven's sake, keep your clothes on. Sus 0:05:32.680 --> 0:05:35.200 and I started doing fashion. 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:39.479 At the time, Sus was rocking short hair before anyone else. 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:42.279 So one day, when she was walking down Bond Street, 0:05:42.600 --> 0:05:44.440 she got approached by Vogue for a sheet. 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:49.559 The photographer actually was wonderful. He really made you feel good. 0:05:50.120 --> 0:05:53.000 I was so excited that I was going to become 0:05:53.040 --> 0:05:54.039 a photographer too. 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:56.599 But around the same time that she got the job 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:00.920 for Vogue, Sus was starting to realize maybe modeling wasn't 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:01.240 for her. 0:06:01.720 --> 0:06:04.640 There's an awful job modeling. You know, you stand in 0:06:04.760 --> 0:06:07.760 line and you wait for people to point. 0:06:07.480 --> 0:06:09.279 Out, oh you you you not you. 0:06:09.760 --> 0:06:11.560 Uh, it's horrible. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:17.120 And then all the photographers were men, and most of them, 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.640 you know, would be so full of themselves, but they 0:06:20.640 --> 0:06:24.200 didn't know how to make you feel relaxed. So I 0:06:24.240 --> 0:06:28.600 started shooting my girlfriends. Behind the scenes, I took pictures 0:06:28.640 --> 0:06:31.120 of everybody because people would take their clothes off for me. 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.000 I didn't know what I was doing, and so they 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:38.039 saw this girl struggling with the camera, and you know, 0:06:38.279 --> 0:06:40.280 and I was funny. I mean, I would just make 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:45.240 them laugh. We would just fool around, and that's what worked. 0:06:45.640 --> 0:06:49.120 I was useless, but I was a really good cheerleader. 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.880 You're only as good as your model feels that. 0:06:53.080 --> 0:06:56.800 Everything changed when Susan met a new model called Lillian Miller. 0:06:57.600 --> 0:07:01.520 Susan's husband, Humphrey, had come across Lillian's pictures. He'd followed 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.200 Sue's into the glamour industry and knew this blonde bombshell 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:07.320 from Norway had something special. 0:07:08.240 --> 0:07:12.880 Lillian Muller was the secret of our success. We got 0:07:12.880 --> 0:07:16.080 her to come and see us and persuaded her to 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:17.440 do photographs with me. 0:07:18.440 --> 0:07:22.040 The photos Sue's took of Lillian was striking. She showed 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.000 them to another photographer who was working for a publication 0:07:25.120 --> 0:07:29.560 that you might have heard of, Playboy magazine. He also 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.960 thought Lillian had something special. He sent the photos to 0:07:33.000 --> 0:07:34.320 his boss, Hugh Hefner. 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:36.320 Hefna fell in love with her. 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.840 This was a man's world, so SU's had to be strategic. 0:07:40.560 --> 0:07:43.040 She said Playboy could only shoot with Lillian if she 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:44.000 was the photographer. 0:07:44.640 --> 0:07:48.560 I would pay the models directly, and I would own 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:51.720 the pictures. I was able to say, well, you know, 0:07:52.120 --> 0:07:54.840 if you don't want me to shoot for you, I'll 0:07:54.840 --> 0:07:56.320 sell my pictures Spendez. 0:07:57.120 --> 0:07:59.840 Sue's now owned the photos she'd taken of Lillian. This 0:08:00.120 --> 0:08:04.240 is pretty commonplace nowadays, but back then, sus was ahead 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:07.480 of her time and it gave her bargaining power with Playboy. 0:08:07.840 --> 0:08:10.120 They had to kind of trying to sweet talk me 0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:15.520 into owning her and the pictures. They flew us both 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:22.960 over to La so they let me shoot for them. 0:08:22.560 --> 0:08:26.000 At the Playboy Mansion, Sue's photographed Lilian for the magazine's cover, 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.080 making it the first full frontal Playboy spread to be 0:08:29.120 --> 0:08:32.080 shot by a woman. Lilian was then chosen as Playmate 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.120 of the Month in August nineteen seventy five and Playmate 0:08:35.160 --> 0:08:38.240 of the Year in nineteen seventy six. It was a 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:41.520 heady time, and Sues threw herself into endless partying at 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:42.400 the Playboy Mansion. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:47.520 It was okay, but not the greatest of parties. I 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:51.360 used to get the parties going, and I'd start dancing. 0:08:51.400 --> 0:08:53.920 And I never used to wear my knickers, so I 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:59.240 used to flash my bushy pushy and make everybody laugh 0:09:00.120 --> 0:09:03.720 get it going. Otherwise they wouldn't get going till like 0:09:03.880 --> 0:09:09.200 two am. Hefner had a fit. Ah, we're not a 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.280 pour Omer magazine. 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:12.959 We're this, we're that. 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.880 We're very serious Ladi dar. 0:09:16.800 --> 0:09:19.400 It was Susan's wildside that would eventually spell the end 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.719 of her relationship with Playboy. Among other things, there was 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.319 the provocative shoot sus did of herself for competitor magazine Hustler, 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.880 which was published under the title Playboy Photographer shows Pink Well. 0:09:30.920 --> 0:09:34.280 Playboy took itself very seriously. I mean a lot of 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:36.720 the pictures that I shot for Playboy they'd throw out 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:38.199 because I kept showing pussy. 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:40.800 After three years of working for Playboy. 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:46.840 I ended out falling out with them. The rest of 0:09:46.880 --> 0:09:49.240 the men, the rest of the photographers are lock Stock 0:09:49.320 --> 0:09:52.120 and barrel and just do what they say and take 0:09:52.160 --> 0:09:56.080 their money and what But I never did that. So 0:09:56.240 --> 0:09:58.720 getting thrown out by those guys meant that I had 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:02.280 to shoot for myself, and so I was the only 0:10:02.320 --> 0:10:07.120 photographer who owned her own pictures, so bad behavior is 0:10:07.840 --> 0:10:09.599 quite an advantage sometimes. 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:30.719 Even though sus had left Playboy behind, her career as 0:10:30.720 --> 0:10:34.840 a freelance glamour photographer and pornographer went from strength to strength. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:39.040 Susan her husband Humphrey, moved to Malibu and had two daughters. 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:43.120 One of them, Holly, was very keen to follow in 0:10:43.160 --> 0:10:44.240 her parents' footsteps. 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:48.840 I was fortunate to grow up with parents who were open. 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:51.480 About sex in their household. There was no sense of 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.720 shame around what Susan Humphrey did for a living. 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:56.880 We always refer to her glamour photography career because she 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.240 did do some mainstream stuff. She did shoot glamourer of 0:11:00.360 --> 0:11:03.360 people with their clothes off, but it wasn't anything that 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:07.439 was ever weird in my life. From what I understood. 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:12.040 It was mommy and daddy make movies and take pictures 0:11:12.040 --> 0:11:14.680 for grown ups. You're not a grown up, so this 0:11:14.840 --> 0:11:18.400 is not something that you know, we show you, and 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:20.480 that was fine to me. 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:25.160 Despite her parents' unusual profession, Holly says her childhood was 0:11:25.200 --> 0:11:25.920 pretty normal. 0:11:26.520 --> 0:11:28.520 I know a lot of people don't expect to hear that, 0:11:28.800 --> 0:11:34.600 but my parents were very attentive, very there, very loving, 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:38.880 very supportive. We always had Sunday lunch together. They read 0:11:38.880 --> 0:11:40.920 me a bedtime story every night. They sent me to 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.880 good schools. I rode horses with my mom. 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:46.880 It wasn't until Holly got older and more interested in 0:11:46.920 --> 0:11:49.559 sex herself that her ears and eyes would perk up 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:51.400 whenever her parents would talk about work. 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.000 There were definitely times that I would sneak into the 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:58.520 office and steal magazines and look at them, which you know, 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:01.600 seemed riskue at the time, it was exciting. It was 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.240 like naked people, you know, and like naked people pretending 0:12:04.240 --> 0:12:07.200 to have sex, so I was always scared of getting caught. 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.520 Before the Internet came along, the magazines was all softcore. 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:15.040 They didn't show penetration. So even the layouts that I 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:17.240 would look at that were like boy Girl or Girl 0:12:17.280 --> 0:12:20.160 Girl were very softcore. You know, the guy just like 0:12:20.240 --> 0:12:23.559 posing with his penis near a girl's vagina. So it 0:12:23.640 --> 0:12:27.480 was all pretty tame in comparison to today's standards. I 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:31.640 do remember this one specific girl Girl layout and there 0:12:31.720 --> 0:12:33.800 was a story that went along with it. So it 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:38.559 was about these two women who kind of softly dominated 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:42.000 this man and he liked it. One of the women 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.760 sits on his face and lays a few gentle farts 0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:49.080 in his face, and I just remember reading that going 0:12:49.200 --> 0:12:53.720 like wait, wait, what, Like that's sexy to people? Like 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:55.720 what is this? You know, I don't want a kink shame, 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:58.840 but I still find like fart porn a little bit odd. 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:03.199 The Holy wasn't deterred. She started attending her parents' sheets, 0:13:03.280 --> 0:13:05.920 and she was fascinated by something she refers to as 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:06.840 the Sux's bubble. 0:13:07.400 --> 0:13:11.280 So the SU's bubble was. You know, my mom's sets 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.160 were very different from other people's sets. First of all, 0:13:14.200 --> 0:13:16.960 she was a woman, which was very unusual at the time, 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.800 and she was a glamour photographer, and she cared very 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.559 much about the hair, about the makeup, about the setting, 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:28.040 about the wardrobe, about posing the girl properly, and like 0:13:28.080 --> 0:13:31.280 she said, about treating them right. You're only as good 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:32.360 as your model feels. 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.400 You're only as good as your model feels, Sue's's secret 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:37.000 to success. 0:13:37.600 --> 0:13:41.400 That was not the mantra that most photographers followed in 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:45.160 those days. You know, they saw these women as objects, 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.760 and some of them could be downright cruel. And my 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:53.240 mom was always very gentle, really respectful, and very kind. 0:13:54.000 --> 0:14:00.960 It was just like a very professional, sex positive female environment. 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.880 In her teens, Holly decided to become a photographer just 0:14:04.960 --> 0:14:08.719 like her mum. When she started studying photography, she kept 0:14:08.760 --> 0:14:11.920 her mom's mantra of always treating the model well at 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:12.920 the front of her mind. 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:15.880 You didn't hit on the models, you didn't try to 0:14:15.960 --> 0:14:17.720 date them, you didn't try to fuck them. 0:14:18.080 --> 0:14:22.200 Holly observed that for photographers like SEUs, communicating boundaries or 0:14:22.320 --> 0:14:24.560 levels as they are often known in the industry is 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.880 key to a safe sheet, especially on porn sets. 0:14:28.520 --> 0:14:31.240 So it's a long checklist of what are you okay with, 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:34.680 what are you not okay with? Your hard nose, and 0:14:34.760 --> 0:14:38.960 your safe words. Specifically for newer models who may feel 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.720 like uncomfortable speaking up or whom also may not even 0:14:41.800 --> 0:14:44.600 know what their boundaries are, they may be unsure, so 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.160 it's important to have all of that stuff communicated beforehand. 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.120 Now that's very different from what we know about guys 0:14:57.160 --> 0:15:02.120 like Luis Gomez and how they conduct their sheets. Sus 0:15:02.160 --> 0:15:05.360 would prioritize the safety and comfort of her models during shoots, 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.560 even if they were new and not necessarily familiar with 0:15:08.600 --> 0:15:11.960 what they were comfortable with. Winning trust and being honest 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.680 created a safe space for both sides of the camera 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.880 to get the money shots, and that became the foundations 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:41.520 of a successful business. When the Internet came around in 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:44.440 the late nineties, it wasn't just her mantra that set 0:15:44.520 --> 0:15:48.440 Sues apart. The thing that catapulted them into big business 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:51.680 success was SUS's early decision to own all of her 0:15:51.680 --> 0:15:52.400 own pictures. 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.320 One of the best decisions that she ever made was 0:15:56.360 --> 0:15:59.240 to own all of her own content, and that really 0:15:59.320 --> 0:16:02.200 came in handy when this new platform came along that 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:03.480 you could sell all of it on. 0:16:04.400 --> 0:16:07.000 When they started out in the glamour industry, Susan and 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:09.640 Humphrey were making money by selling her content to third 0:16:09.680 --> 0:16:13.160 parties who were licensing material from other photographers. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:15.320 But times were changing. 0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:17.680 You know, is this thing called the Internet continued to grow. 0:16:17.760 --> 0:16:19.720 My father started to see that there was a real 0:16:19.760 --> 0:16:22.480 potential for us to have our own website and sell 0:16:23.080 --> 0:16:26.200 our content directly to the consumer rather than through a 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.480 third party, and that's when they launched SU's dot net. 0:16:29.800 --> 0:16:33.560 In nineteen ninety eight. Within months of Google launching, sues 0:16:33.600 --> 0:16:35.200 dot net was up and running. 0:16:35.480 --> 0:16:40.320 Yeah, it was very colorful and very glam and definitely 0:16:40.360 --> 0:16:43.400 like pretty nineties looking and you would go in and 0:16:43.800 --> 0:16:47.800 you would just have access to Susan's archives dating back 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:48.720 to the seventies. 0:16:49.120 --> 0:16:50.600 And the website was a hit. 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.680 My parents were making more money on SU's net than 0:16:53.720 --> 0:16:56.240 they'd ever made. I think in our heyday, we were 0:16:56.280 --> 0:17:00.920 making like three hundred thousand a month. Pretty crazy. Oh God, 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:02.640 I spent it all, you sure did. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:08.520 I spent it all on horses. I started breeding horses. 0:17:08.600 --> 0:17:11.280 I had like seventeen at one point, I think it 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:18.160 was eighteen eighteen horses. Yeah, that was so exciting, but yeah, 0:17:18.280 --> 0:17:19.840 drug problem would have been cheaper. 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:24.720 Six months after the website launched, fledgling student photographer Holly 0:17:24.920 --> 0:17:26.760 came to work for what was shaping up to be 0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:29.160 a really successful family business. 0:17:29.400 --> 0:17:32.760 It was my dad who really wanted me to come 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.920 and start working for them. My mom wasn't too keen 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.320 on it. I think that she kind of wanted something 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:38.840 else for me. 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:42.639 I always wanted her to be a writer. She's a 0:17:42.680 --> 0:17:45.840 really good writer, but she wouldn't listen to me. 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:50.159 I think my dad really saw the future in the 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:54.320 Internet and porn, and he, you know, knew that he 0:17:54.320 --> 0:17:57.399 could trust me, and he knew that I was smart 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:58.680 and they really needed help. 0:17:59.280 --> 0:18:01.640 Susan vice Holly to come help her shoot a porn 0:18:01.680 --> 0:18:04.119 scene at their ranch. A man and a woman were 0:18:04.160 --> 0:18:06.679 shooting with an old convertible car in front of the house. 0:18:07.400 --> 0:18:10.600 It was retro and very stylized. While Holly tried her 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:13.800 hand at some artsy shots, Sue's struggled to work closely 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:14.800 alongside her daughter. 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:17.879 Every time I would kind of like appear in her eyeline, 0:18:18.040 --> 0:18:21.280 I think her sort of discomfort of having me on 0:18:21.400 --> 0:18:24.760 set would manifest itself and she'd kind of like show 0:18:24.800 --> 0:18:26.440 me to the back. So I ended up just kind 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.119 of like hiding in the bushes with a long lens 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.719 and like taking photos because like she was okay with 0:18:32.760 --> 0:18:34.480 me there, but then like she'd see me and she's 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.080 like kind of wasn't okay with it. It was there 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:38.919 was like a personal internal struggle, I think. 0:18:39.240 --> 0:18:41.240 But sus eventually showed her the ropes. 0:18:41.960 --> 0:18:45.840 My mom hand fed me her assistance and her styling 0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.679 and her wardrobe, and I had no idea what I 0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:51.520 was doing. So her assistance would like the set for me, 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:53.679 and I'd just take the photos. And I didn't know 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.520 how to pose a model. I was terrified to give 0:18:56.560 --> 0:18:59.880 them direction. But you know, it was a lot of fun, and. 0:19:00.480 --> 0:19:03.520 So I just stayed together, the family fun. 0:19:03.600 --> 0:19:06.040 With the money they made back into the content, more 0:19:06.080 --> 0:19:08.160 elaborate sets, wardrobes, and scenes. 0:19:08.960 --> 0:19:12.120 We had the freedom to shoot whatever we wanted because 0:19:12.880 --> 0:19:15.760 she was independent, you know, we could just sit down 0:19:15.760 --> 0:19:17.560 on a Monday and go, what do we want to shoot. 0:19:17.640 --> 0:19:20.119 Let's shoot like a twenties gangster revival and get a 0:19:20.119 --> 0:19:24.159 really cool car, or let's shoot like a sexy beach scene, 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:27.680 or let's shoot a future space age thing. 0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:31.240 But Holly quickly discovered her shooting style was different to 0:19:31.280 --> 0:19:31.720 her mum's. 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.359 I'm definitely more of a results person. I'm not so 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.159 emotionally invested in the scene as she is. I'm very 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:42.640 much about lighting angles. I'm a lot more technical. I'm 0:19:42.680 --> 0:19:45.600 happy about the shoot when it's over. I'm all about, 0:19:45.600 --> 0:19:49.320 like looking at it afterwards, what could I have improved? 0:19:49.440 --> 0:19:52.840 What could I have done better? So we're very different 0:19:52.880 --> 0:19:53.320 in that way. 0:19:53.560 --> 0:19:57.160 Oh yeah, she's lucky she doesn't have my personality. She's 0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:58.879 got her father's brains. 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:01.640 I would say I'm a lot more like my dad, 0:20:02.160 --> 0:20:09.760 a little bit more cautious, calculated, measured, emotionally distant. 0:20:12.240 --> 0:20:15.280 I'm just rowdy, that's true, out of control. 0:20:16.240 --> 0:20:18.919 And soon the tables turned and it would be Holly 0:20:18.960 --> 0:20:20.800 telling sus what to do on shoots. 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.679 I wasn't allowed to be there because I made too 0:20:24.800 --> 0:20:25.479 much noise. 0:20:26.240 --> 0:20:27.199 Yeah, she has a problem. 0:20:27.240 --> 0:20:30.399 I was just telling everybody to do it deeper, fast, quicker. 0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:34.320 She thought she was at a party. It was infuriating. 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:36.080 I had to kick her out of the studio and 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:40.600 I'm just like, you can't talk, mom, you can't You're mom. 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:45.040 You're ruining the porno. Get out. She couldn't help herself. 0:20:46.119 --> 0:20:48.520 With the evolution of online porn in the twenty tens, 0:20:48.960 --> 0:20:52.800 Holly started to see new opportunities. After years of working 0:20:52.840 --> 0:20:55.480 alongside her mom, she got a job shooting for a 0:20:55.560 --> 0:20:58.760 major adult film studio, which was acquired by the biggest 0:20:58.800 --> 0:21:02.919 adult entertainment corporate in the world, mind Gig. But although 0:21:02.960 --> 0:21:06.000 Holly loved working in porn, it wasn't her north star. 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:08.720 She'd always wanted to work for Playboy. 0:21:09.400 --> 0:21:13.040 I had applied to Playboy several times, but I always 0:21:13.040 --> 0:21:14.720 got the door slammed in my face. And I don't 0:21:14.720 --> 0:21:16.639 know if it was because I worked in porn, or 0:21:16.680 --> 0:21:18.439 because of who my mom was, or both. 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:19.760 Of your mom. 0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:23.000 Yeah. I mean they were very anti porn. You know, 0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:25.760 they really didn't want that line to be blurred. They 0:21:25.760 --> 0:21:28.760 wanted everyone to understand that Playboy is not porn. 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:32.119 But Holly's background shooting porn would prove useful. 0:21:32.840 --> 0:21:37.880 Playboy was struggling with how to transition over to the Internet, 0:21:37.960 --> 0:21:40.280 and mine Geek, being you know, the technology company that 0:21:40.320 --> 0:21:42.760 they are, came and said, look, we'll take your website 0:21:42.760 --> 0:21:45.440 from you. We'll do a licensing deal of like six 0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:48.720 years or something like that. We'll pay you millions of 0:21:48.760 --> 0:21:52.600 dollars every year, and we'll build the sites up, like 0:21:52.640 --> 0:21:55.880 we'll really make them profitable. And so they said yes. 0:21:56.359 --> 0:21:58.239 So then when I found out that mine Geek had 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.280 taken over, I was like, Okay, this corporation that I 0:22:01.280 --> 0:22:03.720 already worked for is running Playboy. Maybe I can have 0:22:03.760 --> 0:22:06.639 an opportunity now. And they were really impressed with my 0:22:06.720 --> 0:22:09.600 work and they hired me and I was their main 0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:14.639 photographer producer for probably like six or seven years. It 0:22:14.800 --> 0:22:18.800 was really nice to be able to shoot this more artsy, 0:22:18.960 --> 0:22:23.040 solo girl stuff, so I really really enjoyed it. 0:22:23.680 --> 0:22:26.600 Playboy also gave Holly her own TV show. 0:22:27.240 --> 0:22:30.879 I hosted a show called Adult Film School, which was porn. 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:34.760 The premise was I was producing the first sex tape 0:22:34.840 --> 0:22:36.240 for amateur couples. 0:22:37.000 --> 0:22:41.640 But Playboy specifications around porn continue to be restrictive, conservative 0:22:41.800 --> 0:22:45.840