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Speaker 1: Novel.

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Speaker 2: Hey listeners, I'm your host, Ellie Flynn. Thanks for joining

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Speaker 2: me on our third and final bonus episode. Before we

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Speaker 2: get started, I just wanted to let you know that

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Speaker 2: this episode contains swearing and some very explicit sexual language.

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Speaker 2: It also contains frank discussions around pornography. This episode certainly

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Speaker 2: comes with a big explicit content warning, but it's also

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Speaker 2: very fun.

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Speaker 3: Now.

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Speaker 2: It's not always easy reporting stories like the one we

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Speaker 2: uncovered in The Bunnie Trap, and once we started investigating

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Speaker 2: this series, we quickly found that most interviews were heavy

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Speaker 2: and difficult, both for the contributors and for the production team.

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Speaker 1: In journalism school, you're often.

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Speaker 2: Taught to end a difficult interview on a lighter note

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Speaker 2: to help bring the contributor out of the tough topics

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Speaker 2: you've been discussing. After everything we've been through together in

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Speaker 2: The Bonnie Trap, we thought we should end the whole

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Speaker 2: series on that lighter note. We're going to do that

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Speaker 2: by bringing you an interview that wasn't heavy or traumatic. Instead,

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Speaker 2: it was a riotis and fun rollercoaster ride with this

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Speaker 2: iconic duo.

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Speaker 3: I'm Hally Randall. I'm a second generation female erotic photographer

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Speaker 3: director and I am sus Randall's daughter.

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Speaker 4: Hey, I'm sus Randal and I'm an old fart living

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Speaker 4: in the mountains on a thirty acre ranch. I just

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Speaker 4: handle the ranch. I bully my ranch manager.

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Speaker 2: Sus is much more than that. She's actually a bit

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Speaker 2: of a legend. Ugh.

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Speaker 3: So, Mom, you could just say saying like, I'm Sus Randal,

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Speaker 3: I'm an erotic photographer and filmmaker, and I was one

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Speaker 3: of the first female photographers at Playboy something like that.

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Speaker 3: That sounds very boring, Yeah, don't worry. The rest of

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Speaker 3: your interview is so fascinating. Like in a one boring

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Speaker 3: sentence that just says who you are.

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Speaker 4: Ah, Okay, So I'm Sus Randal and I'm a naughty photographer.

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Speaker 2: Susan Holly's work covers the full spectrum of raunchy because

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Speaker 2: while they both shoot the kind of glamour content you've

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Speaker 2: come to know in this series, their work goes beyond

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Speaker 2: what we focused on. They're both photographers and pornographers, and

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Speaker 2: that's its most extreme. Their work involves elaborate film sets

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Speaker 2: and porn scenes. I wanted to speak to this mother

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Speaker 2: daughter duo to understand what it's like to succeed as

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Speaker 2: a photographer.

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Speaker 1: In this world.

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Speaker 2: Their careers mirror the evolution of the glamour industry, from

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Speaker 2: parties at the infamous Playboy Mansion to the rise of

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Speaker 2: internet porn. In the main series, you heard about how

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Speaker 2: guys with cameras like Luis Gomes operates. These two they

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Speaker 2: hold the key to making it big in this business.

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Speaker 2: You see, Sus has a philosophy.

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Speaker 1: In her work.

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Speaker 4: I had great fun.

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Speaker 1: Fun.

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Speaker 2: That was Suess's special source because it wasn't just Suess

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Speaker 2: who had fun, her models did too. I'm Ellie Flynn

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Speaker 2: and from the team at Novel This is the Bunny

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Speaker 2: Trap Bonus episode three. You're only as good as your

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Speaker 2: model feels. Sus Randall has had a long and glittering

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Speaker 2: career in glamour photography. She's shot iconic playmates and was

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Speaker 2: the first woman to shoot page three for the Sun newspaper.

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Speaker 2: And if you're from the UK, you know what that means.

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Speaker 2: SUS's journey to becoming an acclaimed erotic photographer started somewhere

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Speaker 2: you might not expect. Worcestershire School in the sleepy English

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Speaker 2: countryside didn't suit her.

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Speaker 4: I was encouraged by my parents to be rebellious, not

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Speaker 4: to take nonsense from bossy teachers, so I'm surprised that

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Speaker 4: was never thrown out.

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Speaker 2: Sus moved to London and became a nurse. So in

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Speaker 2: the sixties, when sus was twenty two, she lived with

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Speaker 2: seven other nurses in Earl's Court. One night, they hosted

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Speaker 2: a party that would prove crucial for her future career.

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Speaker 2: That's where she met a guy called Humphrey, who'd been

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Speaker 2: specifically invited to meet her best friend.

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Speaker 4: I was wearing a top then showed my stomach and

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Speaker 4: he got really excited, and I got shy, so I

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Speaker 4: went upstairs and changed into an ordinary shirt, and then

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Speaker 4: after a couple of drinks, I went and put it

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Speaker 4: back on again, and he knew I was his and

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Speaker 4: I stole him.

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Speaker 2: Humphrey was a writer and director from South Africa. He

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Speaker 2: was struggling to finish his first book, and Susan's wage

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Speaker 2: as a nurse was barely enough to cover the basics

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Speaker 2: of life in London. Humphrey had always dreamed of a

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Speaker 2: life of fame, though, and so he was the one

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Speaker 2: who first nudged sues towards the UK glamour industry.

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Speaker 3: It's all his fault.

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Speaker 4: Really, he persuaded me to answer an ad for nude modeling.

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Speaker 3: I ended up being quite a good model.

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Speaker 4: Although I had short legs, I knew how to move

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Speaker 4: and how to groove.

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Speaker 2: Nude modeling soon overtook her nursing. But then Sue's me

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Speaker 2: a photographer who gave her some advice.

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Speaker 4: He said, for Heaven's sake, keep your clothes on. Sus

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Speaker 4: and I started doing fashion.

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Speaker 2: At the time, Sus was rocking short hair before anyone else.

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Speaker 2: So one day, when she was walking down Bond Street,

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Speaker 2: she got approached by Vogue for a sheet.

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Speaker 4: The photographer actually was wonderful. He really made you feel good.

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Speaker 4: I was so excited that I was going to become

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Speaker 4: a photographer too.

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Speaker 2: But around the same time that she got the job

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Speaker 2: for Vogue, Sus was starting to realize maybe modeling wasn't

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Speaker 2: for her.

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Speaker 4: There's an awful job modeling. You know, you stand in

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Speaker 4: line and you wait for people to point.

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Speaker 1: Out, oh you you you not you.

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Speaker 3: Uh, it's horrible.

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Speaker 4: And then all the photographers were men, and most of them,

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Speaker 4: you know, would be so full of themselves, but they

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Speaker 4: didn't know how to make you feel relaxed. So I

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Speaker 4: started shooting my girlfriends. Behind the scenes, I took pictures

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Speaker 4: of everybody because people would take their clothes off for me.

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Speaker 4: I didn't know what I was doing, and so they

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Speaker 4: saw this girl struggling with the camera, and you know,

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Speaker 4: and I was funny. I mean, I would just make

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Speaker 4: them laugh. We would just fool around, and that's what worked.

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Speaker 4: I was useless, but I was a really good cheerleader.

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Speaker 4: You're only as good as your model feels that.

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Speaker 2: Everything changed when Susan met a new model called Lillian Miller.

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Speaker 2: Susan's husband, Humphrey, had come across Lillian's pictures. He'd followed

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Speaker 2: Sue's into the glamour industry and knew this blonde bombshell

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Speaker 2: from Norway had something special.

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Speaker 4: Lillian Muller was the secret of our success. We got

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Speaker 4: her to come and see us and persuaded her to

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Speaker 4: do photographs with me.

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Speaker 2: The photos Sue's took of Lillian was striking. She showed

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Speaker 2: them to another photographer who was working for a publication

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Speaker 2: that you might have heard of, Playboy magazine. He also

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Speaker 2: thought Lillian had something special. He sent the photos to

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Speaker 2: his boss, Hugh Hefner.

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Speaker 4: Hefna fell in love with her.

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Speaker 2: This was a man's world, so SU's had to be strategic.

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Speaker 2: She said Playboy could only shoot with Lillian if she

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Speaker 2: was the photographer.

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Speaker 4: I would pay the models directly, and I would own

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Speaker 4: the pictures. I was able to say, well, you know,

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Speaker 4: if you don't want me to shoot for you, I'll

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Speaker 4: sell my pictures Spendez.

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Speaker 2: Sue's now owned the photos she'd taken of Lillian. This

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Speaker 2: is pretty commonplace nowadays, but back then, sus was ahead

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Speaker 2: of her time and it gave her bargaining power with Playboy.

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Speaker 4: They had to kind of trying to sweet talk me

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Speaker 4: into owning her and the pictures. They flew us both

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Speaker 4: over to La so they let me shoot for them.

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Speaker 2: At the Playboy Mansion, Sue's photographed Lilian for the magazine's cover,

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Speaker 2: making it the first full frontal Playboy spread to be

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Speaker 2: shot by a woman. Lilian was then chosen as Playmate

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Speaker 2: of the Month in August nineteen seventy five and Playmate

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Speaker 2: of the Year in nineteen seventy six. It was a

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Speaker 2: heady time, and Sues threw herself into endless partying at

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Speaker 2: the Playboy Mansion.

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Speaker 4: It was okay, but not the greatest of parties. I

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Speaker 4: used to get the parties going, and I'd start dancing.

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Speaker 4: And I never used to wear my knickers, so I

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Speaker 4: used to flash my bushy pushy and make everybody laugh

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Speaker 4: get it going. Otherwise they wouldn't get going till like

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Speaker 4: two am. Hefner had a fit. Ah, we're not a

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Speaker 4: pour Omer magazine.

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Speaker 3: We're this, we're that.

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Speaker 4: We're very serious Ladi dar.

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Speaker 2: It was Susan's wildside that would eventually spell the end

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Speaker 2: of her relationship with Playboy. Among other things, there was

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Speaker 2: the provocative shoot sus did of herself for competitor magazine Hustler,

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Speaker 2: which was published under the title Playboy Photographer shows Pink Well.

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Speaker 4: Playboy took itself very seriously. I mean a lot of

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Speaker 4: the pictures that I shot for Playboy they'd throw out

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Speaker 4: because I kept showing pussy.

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Speaker 1: After three years of working for Playboy.

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Speaker 4: I ended out falling out with them. The rest of

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Speaker 4: the men, the rest of the photographers are lock Stock

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Speaker 4: and barrel and just do what they say and take

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Speaker 4: their money and what But I never did that. So

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Speaker 4: getting thrown out by those guys meant that I had

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Speaker 4: to shoot for myself, and so I was the only

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Speaker 4: photographer who owned her own pictures, so bad behavior is

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Speaker 4: quite an advantage sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Even though sus had left Playboy behind, her career as

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Speaker 2: a freelance glamour photographer and pornographer went from strength to strength.

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Speaker 2: Susan her husband Humphrey, moved to Malibu and had two daughters.

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Speaker 2: One of them, Holly, was very keen to follow in

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Speaker 2: her parents' footsteps.

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Speaker 3: I was fortunate to grow up with parents who were open.

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Speaker 2: About sex in their household. There was no sense of

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Speaker 2: shame around what Susan Humphrey did for a living.

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Speaker 3: We always refer to her glamour photography career because she

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Speaker 3: did do some mainstream stuff. She did shoot glamourer of

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Speaker 3: people with their clothes off, but it wasn't anything that

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Speaker 3: was ever weird in my life. From what I understood.

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Speaker 3: It was mommy and daddy make movies and take pictures

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Speaker 3: for grown ups. You're not a grown up, so this

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Speaker 3: is not something that you know, we show you, and

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Speaker 3: that was fine to me.

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Speaker 2: Despite her parents' unusual profession, Holly says her childhood was

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Speaker 2: pretty normal.

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Speaker 3: I know a lot of people don't expect to hear that,

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Speaker 3: but my parents were very attentive, very there, very loving,

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Speaker 3: very supportive. We always had Sunday lunch together. They read

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Speaker 3: me a bedtime story every night. They sent me to

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Speaker 3: good schools. I rode horses with my mom.

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Speaker 2: It wasn't until Holly got older and more interested in

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Speaker 2: sex herself that her ears and eyes would perk up

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Speaker 2: whenever her parents would talk about work.

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Speaker 3: There were definitely times that I would sneak into the

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Speaker 3: office and steal magazines and look at them, which you know,

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Speaker 3: seemed riskue at the time, it was exciting. It was

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Speaker 3: like naked people, you know, and like naked people pretending

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Speaker 3: to have sex, so I was always scared of getting caught.

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Speaker 3: Before the Internet came along, the magazines was all softcore.

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Speaker 3: They didn't show penetration. So even the layouts that I

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Speaker 3: would look at that were like boy Girl or Girl

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Speaker 3: Girl were very softcore. You know, the guy just like

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Speaker 3: posing with his penis near a girl's vagina. So it

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Speaker 3: was all pretty tame in comparison to today's standards. I

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Speaker 3: do remember this one specific girl Girl layout and there

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Speaker 3: was a story that went along with it. So it

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Speaker 3: was about these two women who kind of softly dominated

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Speaker 3: this man and he liked it. One of the women

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Speaker 3: sits on his face and lays a few gentle farts

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Speaker 3: in his face, and I just remember reading that going

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Speaker 3: like wait, wait, what, Like that's sexy to people? Like

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Speaker 3: what is this? You know, I don't want a kink shame,

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Speaker 3: but I still find like fart porn a little bit odd.

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Speaker 2: The Holy wasn't deterred. She started attending her parents' sheets,

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Speaker 2: and she was fascinated by something she refers to as

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Speaker 2: the Sux's bubble.

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Speaker 3: So the SU's bubble was. You know, my mom's sets

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Speaker 3: were very different from other people's sets. First of all,

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Speaker 3: she was a woman, which was very unusual at the time,

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Speaker 3: and she was a glamour photographer, and she cared very

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Speaker 3: much about the hair, about the makeup, about the setting,

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Speaker 3: about the wardrobe, about posing the girl properly, and like

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Speaker 3: she said, about treating them right. You're only as good

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Speaker 3: as your model feels.

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Speaker 2: You're only as good as your model feels, Sue's's secret

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Speaker 2: to success.

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Speaker 3: That was not the mantra that most photographers followed in

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Speaker 3: those days. You know, they saw these women as objects,

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Speaker 3: and some of them could be downright cruel. And my

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Speaker 3: mom was always very gentle, really respectful, and very kind.

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Speaker 3: It was just like a very professional, sex positive female environment.

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Speaker 2: In her teens, Holly decided to become a photographer just

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Speaker 2: like her mum. When she started studying photography, she kept

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Speaker 2: her mom's mantra of always treating the model well at

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Speaker 2: the front of her mind.

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Speaker 3: You didn't hit on the models, you didn't try to

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Speaker 3: date them, you didn't try to fuck them.

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Speaker 2: Holly observed that for photographers like SEUs, communicating boundaries or

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Speaker 2: levels as they are often known in the industry is

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Speaker 2: key to a safe sheet, especially on porn sets.

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Speaker 3: So it's a long checklist of what are you okay with,

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Speaker 3: what are you not okay with? Your hard nose, and

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Speaker 3: your safe words. Specifically for newer models who may feel

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Speaker 3: like uncomfortable speaking up or whom also may not even

255
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Speaker 3: know what their boundaries are, they may be unsure, so

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Speaker 3: it's important to have all of that stuff communicated beforehand.

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Speaker 2: Now that's very different from what we know about guys

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Speaker 2: like Luis Gomez and how they conduct their sheets. Sus

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Speaker 2: would prioritize the safety and comfort of her models during shoots,

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Speaker 2: even if they were new and not necessarily familiar with

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Speaker 2: what they were comfortable with. Winning trust and being honest

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Speaker 2: created a safe space for both sides of the camera

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Speaker 2: to get the money shots, and that became the foundations

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Speaker 2: of a successful business. When the Internet came around in

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Speaker 2: the late nineties, it wasn't just her mantra that set

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Speaker 2: Sues apart. The thing that catapulted them into big business

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Speaker 2: success was SUS's early decision to own all of her

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Speaker 2: own pictures.

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Speaker 3: One of the best decisions that she ever made was

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Speaker 3: to own all of her own content, and that really

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Speaker 3: came in handy when this new platform came along that

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Speaker 3: you could sell all of it on.

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Speaker 2: When they started out in the glamour industry, Susan and

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Speaker 2: Humphrey were making money by selling her content to third

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Speaker 2: parties who were licensing material from other photographers.

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Speaker 1: But times were changing.

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Speaker 3: You know, is this thing called the Internet continued to grow.

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Speaker 3: My father started to see that there was a real

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Speaker 3: potential for us to have our own website and sell

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Speaker 3: our content directly to the consumer rather than through a

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Speaker 3: third party, and that's when they launched SU's dot net.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen ninety eight. Within months of Google launching, sues

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Speaker 2: dot net was up and running.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was very colorful and very glam and definitely

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Speaker 3: like pretty nineties looking and you would go in and

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Speaker 3: you would just have access to Susan's archives dating back

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Speaker 3: to the seventies.

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Speaker 2: And the website was a hit.

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Speaker 3: My parents were making more money on SU's net than

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Speaker 3: they'd ever made. I think in our heyday, we were

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Speaker 3: making like three hundred thousand a month. Pretty crazy. Oh God,

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Speaker 3: I spent it all, you sure did.

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Speaker 4: I spent it all on horses. I started breeding horses.

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Speaker 4: I had like seventeen at one point, I think it

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Speaker 4: was eighteen eighteen horses. Yeah, that was so exciting, but yeah,

296
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Speaker 4: drug problem would have been cheaper.

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Speaker 2: Six months after the website launched, fledgling student photographer Holly

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Speaker 2: came to work for what was shaping up to be

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Speaker 2: a really successful family business.

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Speaker 3: It was my dad who really wanted me to come

301
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Speaker 3: and start working for them. My mom wasn't too keen

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Speaker 3: on it. I think that she kind of wanted something

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Speaker 3: else for me.

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Speaker 4: I always wanted her to be a writer. She's a

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Speaker 4: really good writer, but she wouldn't listen to me.

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Speaker 3: I think my dad really saw the future in the

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Speaker 3: Internet and porn, and he, you know, knew that he

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Speaker 3: could trust me, and he knew that I was smart

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Speaker 3: and they really needed help.

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Speaker 2: Susan vice Holly to come help her shoot a porn

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Speaker 2: scene at their ranch. A man and a woman were

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Speaker 2: shooting with an old convertible car in front of the house.

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Speaker 2: It was retro and very stylized. While Holly tried her

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Speaker 2: hand at some artsy shots, Sue's struggled to work closely

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Speaker 2: alongside her daughter.

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Speaker 3: Every time I would kind of like appear in her eyeline,

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Speaker 3: I think her sort of discomfort of having me on

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Speaker 3: set would manifest itself and she'd kind of like show

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Speaker 3: me to the back. So I ended up just kind

320
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Speaker 3: of like hiding in the bushes with a long lens

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Speaker 3: and like taking photos because like she was okay with

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Speaker 3: me there, but then like she'd see me and she's

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Speaker 3: like kind of wasn't okay with it. It was there

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Speaker 3: was like a personal internal struggle, I think.

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Speaker 2: But sus eventually showed her the ropes.

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Speaker 3: My mom hand fed me her assistance and her styling

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Speaker 3: and her wardrobe, and I had no idea what I

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Speaker 3: was doing. So her assistance would like the set for me,

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Speaker 3: and I'd just take the photos. And I didn't know

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Speaker 3: how to pose a model. I was terrified to give

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Speaker 3: them direction. But you know, it was a lot of fun, and.

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Speaker 1: So I just stayed together, the family fun.

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Speaker 2: With the money they made back into the content, more

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Speaker 2: elaborate sets, wardrobes, and scenes.

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Speaker 3: We had the freedom to shoot whatever we wanted because

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Speaker 3: she was independent, you know, we could just sit down

337
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:17,560
Speaker 3: on a Monday and go, what do we want to shoot.

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Speaker 3: Let's shoot like a twenties gangster revival and get a

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Speaker 3: really cool car, or let's shoot like a sexy beach scene,

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Speaker 3: or let's shoot a future space age thing.

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Speaker 2: But Holly quickly discovered her shooting style was different to

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Speaker 2: her mum's.

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Speaker 3: I'm definitely more of a results person. I'm not so

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Speaker 3: emotionally invested in the scene as she is. I'm very

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Speaker 3: much about lighting angles. I'm a lot more technical. I'm

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Speaker 3: happy about the shoot when it's over. I'm all about,

347
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Speaker 3: like looking at it afterwards, what could I have improved?

348
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Speaker 3: What could I have done better? So we're very different

349
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Speaker 3: in that way.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, she's lucky she doesn't have my personality. She's

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Speaker 4: got her father's brains.

352
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Speaker 3: I would say I'm a lot more like my dad,

353
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Speaker 3: a little bit more cautious, calculated, measured, emotionally distant.

354
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Speaker 4: I'm just rowdy, that's true, out of control.

355
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Speaker 2: And soon the tables turned and it would be Holly

356
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Speaker 2: telling sus what to do on shoots.

357
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Speaker 4: I wasn't allowed to be there because I made too

358
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Speaker 4: much noise.

359
00:20:26,240 --> 00:20:27,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, she has a problem.

360
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,399
Speaker 4: I was just telling everybody to do it deeper, fast, quicker.

361
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Speaker 3: She thought she was at a party. It was infuriating.

362
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:36,080
Speaker 3: I had to kick her out of the studio and

363
00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 3: I'm just like, you can't talk, mom, you can't You're mom.

364
00:20:40,680 --> 00:20:45,040
Speaker 3: You're ruining the porno. Get out. She couldn't help herself.

365
00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:48,520
Speaker 2: With the evolution of online porn in the twenty tens,

366
00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,800
Speaker 2: Holly started to see new opportunities. After years of working

367
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Speaker 2: alongside her mom, she got a job shooting for a

368
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Speaker 2: major adult film studio, which was acquired by the biggest

369
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Speaker 2: adult entertainment corporate in the world, mind Gig. But although

370
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,000
Speaker 2: Holly loved working in porn, it wasn't her north star.

371
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Speaker 2: She'd always wanted to work for Playboy.

372
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Speaker 3: I had applied to Playboy several times, but I always

373
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Speaker 3: got the door slammed in my face. And I don't

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Speaker 3: know if it was because I worked in porn, or

375
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Speaker 3: because of who my mom was, or both.

376
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Speaker 4: Of your mom.

377
00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,000
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean they were very anti porn. You know,

378
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,760
Speaker 3: they really didn't want that line to be blurred. They

379
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,760
Speaker 3: wanted everyone to understand that Playboy is not porn.

380
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,119
Speaker 2: But Holly's background shooting porn would prove useful.

381
00:21:32,840 --> 00:21:37,880
Speaker 3: Playboy was struggling with how to transition over to the Internet,

382
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,280
Speaker 3: and mine Geek, being you know, the technology company that

383
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,760
Speaker 3: they are, came and said, look, we'll take your website

384
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Speaker 3: from you. We'll do a licensing deal of like six

385
00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:48,720
Speaker 3: years or something like that. We'll pay you millions of

386
00:21:48,760 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 3: dollars every year, and we'll build the sites up, like

387
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Speaker 3: we'll really make them profitable. And so they said yes.

388
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Speaker 3: So then when I found out that mine Geek had

389
00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:01,280
Speaker 3: taken over, I was like, Okay, this corporation that I

390
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,720
Speaker 3: already worked for is running Playboy. Maybe I can have

391
00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:06,639
Speaker 3: an opportunity now. And they were really impressed with my

392
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 3: work and they hired me and I was their main

393
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Speaker 3: photographer producer for probably like six or seven years. It

394
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 3: was really nice to be able to shoot this more artsy,

395
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:23,040
Speaker 3: solo girl stuff, so I really really enjoyed it.

396
00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,600
Speaker 2: Playboy also gave Holly her own TV show.

397
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Speaker 3: I hosted a show called Adult Film School, which was porn.

398
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,760
Speaker 3: The premise was I was producing the first sex tape

399
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 3: for amateur couples.

400
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 2: But Playboy specifications around porn continue to be restrictive, conservative

401
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,840
Speaker 2: and confusing, and just like her mother, Holly struggled with

402
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 2: Playboy's rules.

403
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 3: We would shoot porn stars sometimes, but like only if

404
00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:56,960
Speaker 3: they were either super hot or if the girls only

405
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 3: did girl girl scenes. It was weird. Like their specifications,

406
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 3: they weren't really specific.

407
00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:06,359
Speaker 2: And in twenty fifteen they became almost too specific.

408
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:11,720
Speaker 3: They decided that they didn't want any porn association whatsoever,

409
00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: which included me. By the way, there was one girl

410
00:23:15,119 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 3: in particular who they found a picture of her like

411
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 3: at the very beginning of her career, where she had

412
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:23,280
Speaker 3: like a hand job scene like this is an obscure,

413
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 3: obscure video that even I didn't know about, and they

414
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,719
Speaker 3: were like, nope, she can't come back in.

415
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,680
Speaker 1: Holly left Playboy, just like her mom.

416
00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,879
Speaker 3: When I first struck out on my own and started

417
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,680
Speaker 3: shooting for other clients, it was very different than it

418
00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,360
Speaker 3: is now. I had to shoot a ton of content

419
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:43,439
Speaker 3: in one day. I had very minimal budget. I just

420
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 3: bought the wardrobe and brought it and dressed the girl

421
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,520
Speaker 3: and just shot like four or five sets in a day,

422
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,439
Speaker 3: and I became fast and good and efficient. But it

423
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,200
Speaker 3: definitely felt like a factory line of porn.

424
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Speaker 2: From the sidelines, Holly watched his Playboy struggle to find

425
00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 2: its feet alongside the Internet and the rise of sites

426
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: like OnlyFans.

427
00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 3: I think it's really hard to stay on top with

428
00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:10,120
Speaker 3: a softcore only material, but I do know that they

429
00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:14,320
Speaker 3: are now really embracing the adult community. They have their

430
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,040
Speaker 3: Girl of the Month now, which is a porn star

431
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 3: that they feature on Playboy Plus, which I think is

432
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:23,600
Speaker 3: you know, the way to go.

433
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 1: Finally, and Playboy isn't alone.

434
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: The porn industry itself has seen positive changes off the

435
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: back of this online shift.

436
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,359
Speaker 3: Models now making more money than ever on their personal content.

437
00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:47,600
Speaker 3: Platforms like OnlyFans now feel empowered to call up predatory

438
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 3: directors and producers because they now don't have to rely

439
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,119
Speaker 3: on booking those jobs in order to make a living.

440
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:57,840
Speaker 3: So there was kind of like a clean sweep of

441
00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:01,040
Speaker 3: a lot of those people, and and the ones like

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00:25:01,160 --> 00:25:08,119
Speaker 3: me who escaped the guillotine got a raisin more chomps.

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Speaker 2: Like mother like daughter now, Holly finds herself in a

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00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,359
Speaker 2: similar position to where her mother Sus was at the

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00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: height of her career.

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Speaker 1: Before.

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00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,920
Speaker 3: I used to have one assistant who lit my photos

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00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:24,240
Speaker 3: and my video and shot camera, and now I have

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00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,120
Speaker 3: like a different person for each of those brands are

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00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,959
Speaker 3: actually now putting a lot more money into their shoots,

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00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:34,239
Speaker 3: so now I work with a much bigger budget. I

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00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:38,199
Speaker 3: only do one shoe to day, so it's almost more

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00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:42,720
Speaker 3: like it was back in the heyday of my mom's say.

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Speaker 2: All because of SUS's mantra, you're only as good as

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00:25:46,240 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 2: your model feels. The best way to get a good

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00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: shot is to make the model feel safe and comfortable.

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00:25:53,280 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: If only all glamor photographers would work like that. We

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00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 2: contacted Luis Gomez multiple times for comment, but we never

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00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,880
Speaker 2: heard back. He has not been charged with any crimes

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00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:13,440
Speaker 2: and is presumed innocent under the law. We also sought

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00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:17,240
Speaker 2: comment from Playboy USA. They declined our request for an interview,

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00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 2: but stated that they asked their licensees to blacklist the

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00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 2: photographer mentioned in this series and that they prohibit paid

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00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,000
Speaker 2: to play the practice of charging models to appear in magazines.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for joining us on the final Bonus episode.

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Speaker 2: Of the Bunnie Trap and for following along this journey

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Speaker 2: with us. We really appreciate your time and support. The

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00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,399
Speaker 2: Bonny Trap is produced by Novel. For more from Novel,

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00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 2: visit Novel to Audio. The show is hosted by me

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00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 2: Ellie Flynn. You can find me on social media by

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00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:01,040
Speaker 2: searching my name That's Ellie el Ie Flynny double n.

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00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 2: This series is produced by Eleana Biggs and this episode

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00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,840
Speaker 2: is produced by a Malia Sortland, additional production from Lee

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00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,480
Speaker 2: Meyer and Saskia Collette. The editors are Georgia Moody and

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00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:17,400
Speaker 2: Austin Mitchell are executive producers and Max O'Brien and Craig Strachan.

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00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 2: Production management from Scharie Houston and Charlotte Wolf. Sound design,

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00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,920
Speaker 2: mixing and scoring by Daniel Kempson and Nicholas Alexander. Music

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00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 2: supervision by Nicholas Alexander, Eleana Biggs and Max O'Brien. Original

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00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,400
Speaker 2: music composed and performed by Jake Long and additional production

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00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,159
Speaker 2: by Nicholas Alexander, Louisa Gerstein and Daniel Kempson. The series

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00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: artwork was designed by Christina Lienkole. Willard Foxton is creative

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Speaker 2: director of Development.

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Speaker 4: Novel