WEBVTT - The Penguin 106: The Beer Summit!

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<v Speaker 1>Worrying. Today's episode Today spoilers for the sixth episode of

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<v Speaker 1>The Penguin The Gold Summit. Watch that before you listen

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<v Speaker 1>to this. Hello, my name.

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<v Speaker 2>Is Jason Kenseepsion and on Marsday Night.

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<v Speaker 1>And welcome back to x Ravision of the podcast where

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<v Speaker 1>we dive deep into your favorite show's movies. Colleagues of

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<v Speaker 1>pop culture. Comm ad from my art podcast, where we're

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<v Speaker 1>bringing you between two and three and occasionally four episodes

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<v Speaker 1>a week every Tuesday and Thursday and other days, also

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<v Speaker 1>plus an extra episode on Wednesday.

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<v Speaker 2>Usually you are so spoiled for episode.

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<v Speaker 1>Keep an eye on that feed.

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<v Speaker 2>In today's episode, we are talking about The Penguin episode six,

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<v Speaker 2>The Gold Summit.

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<v Speaker 3>In the Airlock.

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<v Speaker 2>We will be digging into it, recapping what happened and

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<v Speaker 2>also the questions, the many questions it leaves us with

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<v Speaker 2>as we head into the final two episodes of the season.

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<v Speaker 1>Up next episode six, The Gold Summit. We open with

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<v Speaker 1>Oz narrating the come up of his Bliss operation. As

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<v Speaker 1>we see Vic on his brand new, beautiful, shiny motorbike

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<v Speaker 1>arriving back in the tunnels.

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<v Speaker 3>I thought it was Catwoman. It looks a lot like

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<v Speaker 3>Catwoman's bike.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, okay, pretty cool. How long do you

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<v Speaker 2>think this has been.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's been like two months.

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<v Speaker 3>Okay, three months makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Oz uh is telling his his minions that the opportunity

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<v Speaker 1>is there to grab the city. The falcones are teetering.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just Sophia now calling herself Sophia Gigante. The Maroni's

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<v Speaker 1>or they're weak, they're almost nothing. There's an opening for

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<v Speaker 1>an upstart organization like theirs. Bliss is booming, street level

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<v Speaker 1>crews profiting off this rising red tide of Bliss, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's Vic's job on the back of his motorcycle to

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<v Speaker 1>run product to the streets and then collect cash. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 1>oz is, of course double dealing. He shakes Vic into

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<v Speaker 1>his little office, he shows him the map, He tells

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<v Speaker 1>him about all the street gangs that he's working with,

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<v Speaker 1>and he says, listen, of course I'm allied with this

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<v Speaker 1>one and this gang hates that gang, and they don't

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<v Speaker 1>know I'm working together. But let's keep them out of that.

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<v Speaker 1>They don't have to know that right now, because you

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<v Speaker 1>know this is benefiting everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>He's such a short sighted man.

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<v Speaker 3>That is like my favorite.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's I think he's actually got a pretty

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<v Speaker 1>good long viewing his plan. No, well, I will say

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<v Speaker 1>that I do think there's significant improvisation. Yes, yes, yet right.

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<v Speaker 3>I would say that's a good way to put it.

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<v Speaker 1>But I think I would put it this way. He's

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<v Speaker 1>looking as far ahead as he can. He is not

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<v Speaker 1>at the top of the mountain like Sofia and the

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<v Speaker 1>Maronis and the rest. They can look down at their

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<v Speaker 1>the gangs and see them coming. He's at the bottom

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<v Speaker 1>at the valley, and he can't see around the corner.

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<v Speaker 1>He can only see too the corner. And so I

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<v Speaker 1>think I agree with you that he is somewhat short sighted,

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<v Speaker 1>but he's trying to see as far ahead as he

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<v Speaker 1>possibly can. And Oz mentions to Vic that with all

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<v Speaker 1>these deals that he's forged, with all this kind of

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<v Speaker 1>patchwork network of gangs, the most important, the most crucial

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<v Speaker 1>among them is the Triads. He has to get them

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<v Speaker 1>on his side.

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<v Speaker 2>Because they can go into national.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and one of the most powerful that can go

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<v Speaker 1>against the Maronis and the Falcons. They're the ones that

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<v Speaker 1>he needs. Big problem for the underground headquarters and for

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<v Speaker 1>Crown Point in particular, is power. There's not enough electricity

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<v Speaker 1>how we're still off all throughout Crown Point. This is

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<v Speaker 1>now how long do we think this has been now?

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<v Speaker 1>So if it's three months ish since the last episode,

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<v Speaker 1>it's been six months.

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, no.

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<v Speaker 2>The show started like a week after the Batman, so

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<v Speaker 2>it's literally been like three or four months with no power.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's been four months, four months no power and

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<v Speaker 1>Crown Point City Hall apparently is rationing electricity. Meanwhile, you

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<v Speaker 1>can look at the skyline see the rest of the

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<v Speaker 1>city is lit up like a Christmas tree. Vic tells Oz. Hey,

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<v Speaker 1>by the way, when I was running product, there's people

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<v Speaker 1>watching like I don't know if they're Falcone. I don't

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<v Speaker 1>know if they're Maroni, I don't know if they're Giganty whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>They're trying to locate us. Nobody knows we're underground thus far.

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<v Speaker 1>And I says, listen, here's what's important, keeping the love

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<v Speaker 1>of the streets. You got to keep the love of

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<v Speaker 1>the street. He wants to be.

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<v Speaker 2>The Rex Calibrazy of his life.

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<v Speaker 3>That's why he wants more than anything.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what will protect us, Oz tells Vic. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think he really believes it that what they're doing right now,

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<v Speaker 1>it's gonna go down and legend, Are you kidding me?

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<v Speaker 2>And Vick is definitely yeah, he's he is drinking the

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<v Speaker 2>kool aid at this point, like he.

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<v Speaker 1>A little silver plated nickel plated gun now, yeah, yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>And his grin is like he feels like he believes

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<v Speaker 2>Oz and he trusts OZ and that there's this version

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<v Speaker 2>of his life now where he'll be able to, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>be remembered. And also Oz is using that classic Mobs

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<v Speaker 2>the line, which you know, in this case is at

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<v Speaker 2>least partially true, where he's like, we're looking after the streets.

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<v Speaker 2>Everyone in your community has money. Now you're giving them jobs.

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<v Speaker 2>You're making that happen.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an interesting point. Let's return to this because I

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<v Speaker 1>want to talk about that. We go to Falcone Manor,

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<v Speaker 1>where our ourf wolf wolf Sophia has officially turned doctor

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<v Speaker 1>Rush into doctor Fido Dogs right. He is obedient to

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<v Speaker 1>her and he loves it.

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<v Speaker 3>And for all the bad.

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<v Speaker 1>Things he did, he's done so many bad things and

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<v Speaker 1>he needs to be punished. He's tied to a chair,

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<v Speaker 1>he's all scratched up.

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<v Speaker 2>She's wearing a delightful design a slip once again.

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<v Speaker 1>She's she's uh, you know, using him for her own

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<v Speaker 1>sexual pleasure, and Oz just a complete, you know, completely

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<v Speaker 1>subservient to to. Sophia even offers up, hey, if you

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<v Speaker 1>get a hold of Oz, I'd love to I'd love

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<v Speaker 1>to help you essentially torture.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah. He's like, I'll use my skill training.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Salmaroni is staying at the house.

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<v Speaker 2>He's cooking dinner and she's like, stay in your rem bro,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's like, no, I need to cook this dish

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<v Speaker 2>to remind me of my wife was also cooked.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, gave me some pointers on the on the on

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<v Speaker 1>the yogurt level and whatever. This sauces and he clearly

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<v Speaker 1>is hurting for his family and and thirsting for some

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<v Speaker 1>feeling of family. He looks to so feel like how's

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<v Speaker 1>it taste?

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<v Speaker 2>Like yeah, like is this that? And she she can

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<v Speaker 2>see I actually, there's so many great moments in this

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<v Speaker 2>episode that are just double handers, like two people in

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<v Speaker 2>a room together just chatting. And this is a great

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<v Speaker 2>one because she can immediately see how to ingratiate herself

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<v Speaker 2>with him because she eats it and she says, Taj

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<v Speaker 2>was right, is really delicious, Like she sees that he

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<v Speaker 2>sees her. Could she be a potential daughter. She's someone

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<v Speaker 2>whose father abandoned her. Now she now this guy's missing

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<v Speaker 2>his son, and she already we see throughout this episode

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<v Speaker 2>has like the clear power in this Maroni Jigante kind

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<v Speaker 2>of collab, let's call it.

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<v Speaker 1>They talk about what Oz is up to. Sal has

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<v Speaker 1>some idea, but about the various gangs that he might

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<v Speaker 1>be trying to alie with, and Sofia's like, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>the Triads, or we go after the Triads because he

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<v Speaker 1>needs them.

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<v Speaker 2>And she knows because she had the meeting, right, that's

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<v Speaker 2>exactly right.

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<v Speaker 1>And the problem, as Sally puts it, is the Triads

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<v Speaker 1>have been screwed by both the Maronis and the Falcon Gigantes,

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<v Speaker 1>So what are they gonna do? Sofia's plan is really simple.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just like we kill their guys on the street.

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<v Speaker 1>We just lean on them really hard. In the East

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<v Speaker 1>Side Crash Pad Oz is struggling to keep the power

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<v Speaker 1>going in the apartment. The generator clearly isn't up to

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<v Speaker 1>the job. It's clear also that Mom Cobb, Francis Cobb,

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<v Speaker 1>has grown fond of Vic and at the same time

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<v Speaker 1>she's her mental state is deteriorating pretty fast.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she's had dementi is clearly.

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<v Speaker 1>It's clearly gone. Yeah, it's in control. She thinks Vic

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<v Speaker 1>is one of the boys. She thinks Oz is her husband. Meanwhile,

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<v Speaker 1>Vick is kind of playing into it. He's like it,

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<v Speaker 1>kind of plays along in order to keep things peaceful,

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<v Speaker 1>and Oz hates that.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, you know what's really funny about that is actually

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<v Speaker 2>there is a belief within certain like you know, Carara

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<v Speaker 2>communities of people who have Alzheimer's or dementia, of like

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<v Speaker 2>a compassionate lie where where you don't constantly retraumatize someone

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<v Speaker 2>by saying, actually your sons are dead. You go, yeah, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>they've just gone out, and then that memory is gone

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<v Speaker 2>the next time you talk about it. You can deal

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<v Speaker 2>with it in a different way. So Vic is actually

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<v Speaker 2>keeping the peace and keeping mum Cob happy. Vic is

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<v Speaker 2>doing that, and Oz is really unhappy about it.

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<v Speaker 3>He finds it.

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<v Speaker 2>I can see immediately there that this kind of friendly

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<v Speaker 2>face that he has put on with Vic is only

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<v Speaker 2>it's just that it's a mask.

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<v Speaker 3>He does believe it is. He does care for Vic.

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<v Speaker 2>A little, but the moment he sees his mum feeling

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<v Speaker 2>tenderness to Vic, he is like consumed with jealousy.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know if it's jealousy so much is its protectiveness.

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<v Speaker 1>I think he thinks, having seen situations like this, people

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<v Speaker 1>dealing with a family member who is slipping. Yeah, my

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<v Speaker 1>read on it is VIC thinks she's going to come back.

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<v Speaker 1>He thinks if we keep telling her what the truth is,

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<v Speaker 1>she'll snap out of it, she'll get better.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>And I think Vic, you know, obviously, without any kind

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<v Speaker 1>of expertise or understanding, purely on instinct and a kind

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, a generous instinct, is just playing along

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<v Speaker 1>in order to keep her placated and keep her happy,

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<v Speaker 1>thinking quality of life is what matters here. But I

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<v Speaker 1>think that it could be jealousy. Maybe there's some of that,

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<v Speaker 1>but I think primarily what's happening is is thinking, oh

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<v Speaker 1>Oz can't let go of his mom, he can't let

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<v Speaker 1>go of who she was, and he thinks that that's

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<v Speaker 1>coming back, and that Vic. What VIC is doing is

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<v Speaker 1>is allowing her to slip further into the dream. I

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<v Speaker 1>think that's dementia.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a great point.

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<v Speaker 1>Os Get's call that the triads are they're pulling out underneath,

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<v Speaker 1>understandably because the guys are getting fucking murdered on the street.

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<v Speaker 1>You throw it on the news and there's just guys

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<v Speaker 1>hang it upside down from like from the side of buildings,

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<v Speaker 1>very Cartel's.

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<v Speaker 2>Specifically, there's a hanging element and they chop off the

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<v Speaker 2>little finger. So Oz immediately knows this is morony, and

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<v Speaker 2>Sophia like, this is them saying, remember when you cut

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<v Speaker 2>off Alberta's finger to make it look like I did it?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh remember how you you know, framed me up for

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<v Speaker 2>being the hangman? Like, this is very intentionally pointed.

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<v Speaker 1>I talk about this because later on Sofia in her

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<v Speaker 1>pitch to Eve kind of skipping ahead, but she basically says,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not the hangman. My dad killed all those women.

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<v Speaker 1>OZ knew and he didn't say anything. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>is an interesting tack from Sophia and also an extremely

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<v Speaker 1>self serving one.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, of course, stopping.

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<v Speaker 1>Her from going to the press right now and saying

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not the hangman.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah no, I think I think specifically.

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<v Speaker 1>She's using her image as the hangman exactly to project

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<v Speaker 1>terror across the streets, meanwhile putting the majority of the

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<v Speaker 1>blame on Oz to try and split his allies from

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<v Speaker 1>him by saying, oh, well, it was Oz who mainly

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<v Speaker 1>framed me.

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<v Speaker 3>But it works in the case.

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<v Speaker 2>It works Eve because the truth is that Oz could

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<v Speaker 2>have told her at any point the real person who

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<v Speaker 2>killed her friends. That's why it is because there is

0:12:54.720 --> 0:12:59.200
<v Speaker 2>personal and if he's proclaiming that they have this truth,

0:12:59.280 --> 0:13:03.040
<v Speaker 2>this honest relationship, and and then she.

0:13:03.040 --> 0:13:03.840
<v Speaker 3>Finds out that.

0:13:04.040 --> 0:13:06.200
<v Speaker 2>Now, obviously it's not that easy because you can't just

0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:10.400
<v Speaker 2>like randomly rat on you know, Carmi and Falcone to

0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:12.760
<v Speaker 2>a woman that you don't know if you can trust.

0:13:12.920 --> 0:13:14.400
<v Speaker 3>But it's a very clever attack.

0:13:14.160 --> 0:13:17.880
<v Speaker 2>From Sofia, and it's also a smart move because it

0:13:18.040 --> 0:13:21.680
<v Speaker 2>does just confirm Also the fact that Sofia turns up

0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:25.480
<v Speaker 2>at Eve's door shows that Oz can't protect her in

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:28.320
<v Speaker 2>the way that she wanted, you know. But yeah, it's

0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 2>it's definitely interesting.

0:13:29.440 --> 0:13:30.480
<v Speaker 3>We'll get we'll get to that.

0:13:30.600 --> 0:13:32.360
<v Speaker 1>We'll get well, we'll get to that. We'll get Oz

0:13:32.400 --> 0:13:35.240
<v Speaker 1>comes up with an idea to offset this.

0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:36.559
<v Speaker 3>This is crazy and I love it.

0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:40.640
<v Speaker 1>The Giganti Maronis. He basically says, let's just flood the streets.

0:13:41.360 --> 0:13:46.120
<v Speaker 1>Flood the streets with free bliss, get people loving it,

0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:47.479
<v Speaker 1>get them hooked.

0:13:47.240 --> 0:13:51.680
<v Speaker 2>In every area, in every tough and when they.

0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Go looking for it, we will be the only source.

0:13:54.559 --> 0:13:58.080
<v Speaker 1>You and I our operation. Vic after this has a

0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.800
<v Speaker 1>run in with Squids. Squid's trying to muscle in on

0:14:00.880 --> 0:14:04.080
<v Speaker 1>whatever it is that Vix got going. Vix got new shoes,

0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.120
<v Speaker 1>Vix got new clothes, Vix got a nice motorcycle, Vix

0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.320
<v Speaker 1>got money. A lot of people an what's up?

0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, she wants in.

0:14:13.679 --> 0:14:15.560
<v Speaker 1>And what about that old lady I've seen you with?

0:14:15.640 --> 0:14:18.000
<v Speaker 1>Who's she? I bet it? You know what if I

0:14:18.040 --> 0:14:20.920
<v Speaker 1>go looking for her, give me an introduction to the

0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:24.680
<v Speaker 1>people you're working for, Squid says, Vic walks away. Sal

0:14:24.760 --> 0:14:27.480
<v Speaker 1>and Sophia then break into Oz's apartment and there they

0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:29.680
<v Speaker 1>find out about Eve, to which I say, what took

0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:30.920
<v Speaker 1>you song? You're just now going there?

0:14:31.040 --> 0:14:32.560
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, also as well, not just that.

0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:35.920
<v Speaker 2>I love the moment where Sal is like so angry

0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.520
<v Speaker 2>because there's nothing OZ cares about.

0:14:38.600 --> 0:14:40.840
<v Speaker 1>She's like break break, break ship.

0:14:41.000 --> 0:14:43.680
<v Speaker 2>She's like, just distract yourself while I go and find

0:14:43.680 --> 0:14:45.560
<v Speaker 2>out what actually is going on.

0:14:46.200 --> 0:14:49.080
<v Speaker 1>Oz returns to the apartment. He finds that Mom has

0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:54.800
<v Speaker 1>has been this is terrible. The water has gone cold,

0:14:54.800 --> 0:14:56.680
<v Speaker 1>She's been trapped in the tub. She can't get up

0:14:56.840 --> 0:15:00.880
<v Speaker 1>she lost motor control. She's trapped in the in the

0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.760
<v Speaker 1>tub for hours, who knows, freezing. He covers her up,

0:15:04.840 --> 0:15:09.560
<v Speaker 1>helps her out, and in a moment of clarity, his mom,

0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:14.080
<v Speaker 1>distressed at the progression of this disease, tells Oz that

0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:17.120
<v Speaker 1>she can't live like this Anymore's she doesn't want to

0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:21.920
<v Speaker 1>be a vegetable. He's got to help her die. Essentially,

0:15:22.000 --> 0:15:24.840
<v Speaker 1>Oz doesn't want to do it, doesn't want to do it,

0:15:24.840 --> 0:15:28.680
<v Speaker 1>doesn't want to do it, but eventually it kind of agrees.

0:15:29.440 --> 0:15:36.920
<v Speaker 1>But then, in a kind of heartbreaking final tag to

0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.200
<v Speaker 1>this scene, he helps her get dressed really nice with

0:15:40.480 --> 0:15:43.920
<v Speaker 1>his jewelry and make up so that she can look

0:15:44.000 --> 0:15:46.880
<v Speaker 1>like the powerful woman that she was.

0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:50.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like mospy queen that she aspired to be.

0:15:52.120 --> 0:15:54.920
<v Speaker 1>Vic comes home to the apartment. Oz is working on

0:15:54.960 --> 0:16:00.080
<v Speaker 1>the power and obviously still hurting over the conversation he

0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.160
<v Speaker 1>just had with Mom, but he's he's taking it out

0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:05.240
<v Speaker 1>on his frustrations about the electricity. Yeah.

0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:08.240
<v Speaker 2>I think there's like an interesting kind of like regression

0:16:08.320 --> 0:16:10.880
<v Speaker 2>here for Oz, where like we always see him trying

0:16:10.920 --> 0:16:13.720
<v Speaker 2>to dress as smart as possible, trying to show that

0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:16.440
<v Speaker 2>he's like above everyone else, But here we see him

0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.880
<v Speaker 2>like almost back in the role of the driver, the mechanic.

0:16:18.920 --> 0:16:21.960
<v Speaker 2>He's fit, he's working on the generator, he's wearing overalls,

0:16:22.200 --> 0:16:25.640
<v Speaker 2>and he kind of can't get out of this fear

0:16:25.680 --> 0:16:27.880
<v Speaker 2>that he has about what's happening to his mom. Like

0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:31.200
<v Speaker 2>he he can't hear what Vick is saying. When Vick

0:16:31.320 --> 0:16:32.720
<v Speaker 2>is trying to tell him that there might be a

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:34.080
<v Speaker 2>serious problem.

0:16:34.920 --> 0:16:37.200
<v Speaker 1>That's an interesting I have a take on that too.

0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:39.200
<v Speaker 1>Let's talk about that in a second. Vic tells Os

0:16:39.200 --> 0:16:41.080
<v Speaker 1>about Squid that this is a problem we're gonna have

0:16:41.120 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 1>to deal with. This guy's he's sniffing around. He's I

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 1>don't know what he's going to do. Oz completely blows

0:16:47.440 --> 0:16:47.920
<v Speaker 1>past this.

0:16:47.920 --> 0:16:49.440
<v Speaker 3>And event he's just like deal with it.

0:16:50.160 --> 0:16:54.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, events about mom and the illness and how powerless

0:16:54.640 --> 0:16:59.040
<v Speaker 1>it all makes him feel. And Vic says, well, you know,

0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.280
<v Speaker 1>the good thing is that she here with us, She's

0:17:01.320 --> 0:17:04.600
<v Speaker 1>here with you, And then Oz is like, what did

0:17:04.600 --> 0:17:07.080
<v Speaker 1>you say about that guy? And then Vick is like,

0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:11.320
<v Speaker 1>don't worry, I'll deal with it. I think to your point,

0:17:11.880 --> 0:17:14.800
<v Speaker 1>I do think that Oz is obviously consumed with what's

0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:17.359
<v Speaker 1>happening to his mom. I think this is the thing

0:17:17.480 --> 0:17:21.399
<v Speaker 1>that's behind everything that he does is protecting her, keeping

0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:26.560
<v Speaker 1>her safe and in his mind the way she sees him.

0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:29.760
<v Speaker 1>At the same time, I think this is the moment

0:17:29.840 --> 0:17:35.440
<v Speaker 1>that on a different criminal level, that he pushes vic

0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:37.720
<v Speaker 1>like a motherbird from the nest.

0:17:37.720 --> 0:17:39.440
<v Speaker 3>And oh absolutely, I.

0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.800
<v Speaker 1>Think this is the moment where he's like, I think.

0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.479
<v Speaker 2>He he knows what the probable outcome is.

0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:46.960
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think he's well aware of it. And I

0:17:47.000 --> 0:17:50.000
<v Speaker 1>think he's say and I think to your point, he's saying,

0:17:51.119 --> 0:17:57.600
<v Speaker 1>his ignoring the topic is sincere. But there's also another

0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:58.520
<v Speaker 1>element to it when.

0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like a Machiavellian light, what are you going to

0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:01.720
<v Speaker 2>do about it?

0:18:02.119 --> 0:18:04.320
<v Speaker 1>Deal with it? This is your problem.

0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.000
<v Speaker 2>It's also very ironic when he's like so consumed with

0:18:07.080 --> 0:18:09.400
<v Speaker 2>what's happening with his mom. You know, there's this kind

0:18:09.440 --> 0:18:12.600
<v Speaker 2>of like duality there. But yeah, I love Vick and

0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:15.120
<v Speaker 2>VICX like, I'll deal with it. I'm like, don't do it, bro,

0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:17.879
<v Speaker 2>this quit's crazy. We're gonna take a quick break and

0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:18.680
<v Speaker 2>we'll be right back.

0:18:33.920 --> 0:18:37.639
<v Speaker 1>We're back, sop he asks around for even Eventually, Roxy,

0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:39.440
<v Speaker 1>one of the girls from that night at the club

0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:43.560
<v Speaker 1>with the Bliss giveaway, speaks up and basically gives up

0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:48.399
<v Speaker 1>Eve's apartment. Oz, determined to get the power turned on

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:53.399
<v Speaker 1>in Crown Point, goes and a costs counselman Hayden. He

0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.200
<v Speaker 1>basically says, hey, how would you like if everybody found

0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.280
<v Speaker 1>out how you paid off your gambling losses? He puts

0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.480
<v Speaker 1>pliers in his nose, he like pulls it his septum,

0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.879
<v Speaker 1>and then he's like yeah, you know, and threatens him,

0:19:05.880 --> 0:19:07.720
<v Speaker 1>and then Hayden eventually is like, fine, I'll turn on

0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.000
<v Speaker 1>the power, and Iz was like, you have until morning

0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:14.600
<v Speaker 1>the power better fucking Beyond immediately gets a call from

0:19:14.880 --> 0:19:18.359
<v Speaker 1>his gang leaders, the distribution his street level distribution network,

0:19:18.840 --> 0:19:21.720
<v Speaker 1>and it's the leader of the Sullivan's, the Irish gang,

0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.639
<v Speaker 1>and he's fucking scared as shit and he's and Oz

0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.320
<v Speaker 1>is like, fine, meet me here with everybody.

0:19:28.400 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 2>And he's also like well why, He's like, why is

0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:34.159
<v Speaker 2>that drugs in my area when my people have already

0:19:34.200 --> 0:19:37.040
<v Speaker 2>been killed, like my kids on the corner. Why is

0:19:37.040 --> 0:19:39.040
<v Speaker 2>that happening? And I was just like, don't worry, don't worry, man,

0:19:39.160 --> 0:19:41.399
<v Speaker 2>just come and let meet me. Not it's all going

0:19:41.480 --> 0:19:43.159
<v Speaker 2>to be good, you know. He smoothed over, as he

0:19:43.240 --> 0:19:43.960
<v Speaker 2>so often does.

0:19:44.160 --> 0:19:48.960
<v Speaker 1>Vic goes to meet Squid and basically tries to say, hey, listen,

0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:51.480
<v Speaker 1>I can't get you in the gang, but here's a

0:19:51.760 --> 0:19:54.720
<v Speaker 1>here's an envelope of money, and you know, maybe we

0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.919
<v Speaker 1>make this like a monthly thing, pay you off, you know,

0:19:58.000 --> 0:20:00.439
<v Speaker 1>until a spot opens up, and maybe we can you in,

0:20:00.960 --> 0:20:04.119
<v Speaker 1>you know. And Squid is like, no, fuck the money,

0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.720
<v Speaker 1>like I want in. You're gonna let me in no

0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.800
<v Speaker 1>matter what, like thinking that he's still the guy that

0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:15.840
<v Speaker 1>can bully them mm hm, and you know, Vic tries

0:20:15.880 --> 0:20:17.880
<v Speaker 1>to warn him, like, listen, this is danger, Like don't

0:20:17.880 --> 0:20:21.840
<v Speaker 1>you're playing with this is bad like that they'll they're

0:20:21.840 --> 0:20:24.840
<v Speaker 1>not gonna take it the right way, and Squid doesn't care.

0:20:25.320 --> 0:20:30.560
<v Speaker 1>So eventually Vic shoots Squid with his fancy new Nickei

0:20:30.600 --> 0:20:35.280
<v Speaker 1>plated nine millimeter and immediately feels really, really fucking.

0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.840
<v Speaker 2>I think the most interesting thing about this moment is

0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:42.320
<v Speaker 2>I think what actually drives him to finally make a

0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:45.679
<v Speaker 2>choice to shoot him is Squid keeps insisting on coming

0:20:45.760 --> 0:20:51.080
<v Speaker 2>up to the house where Oz's mom is, and Vic

0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:53.320
<v Speaker 2>is so pushed into a corner by that and not

0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:56.880
<v Speaker 2>wanting to put Mama Cobb in danger and not wanting

0:20:56.920 --> 0:20:59.680
<v Speaker 2>to obviously face the raft of oz if Squid finds out.

0:21:00.280 --> 0:21:02.280
<v Speaker 2>And I think from the moment that Squid said what

0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:04.840
<v Speaker 2>about that old lady I saw you with, Vic kind

0:21:04.880 --> 0:21:06.240
<v Speaker 2>of was considering this.

0:21:07.000 --> 0:21:10.560
<v Speaker 3>But it's really so sad to kind of see it happen.

0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.880
<v Speaker 2>And I think something I love about the show, and

0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:16.959
<v Speaker 2>this sequence in particular is like a great example of it.

0:21:16.960 --> 0:21:18.800
<v Speaker 2>It's not like some neat you shoot him in the

0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:20.960
<v Speaker 2>head and then you just feel kind of bad about it,

0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:21.880
<v Speaker 2>like a video game.

0:21:22.280 --> 0:21:23.120
<v Speaker 3>He shoots him in.

0:21:23.080 --> 0:21:26.040
<v Speaker 2>The neck and like hits a vein and and it's

0:21:26.119 --> 0:21:30.240
<v Speaker 2>just flooding with blood spurting out like a horror movie death.

0:21:30.320 --> 0:21:31.600
<v Speaker 1>There's a death rattle.

0:21:31.440 --> 0:21:33.280
<v Speaker 2>There's a death rot and Vic has to watch it

0:21:33.320 --> 0:21:36.320
<v Speaker 2>and he just feels you can see he's just absolutely

0:21:36.480 --> 0:21:37.600
<v Speaker 2>torn up about it.

0:21:39.000 --> 0:21:41.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I think it's a really important moment. It reminds

0:21:41.560 --> 0:21:45.480
<v Speaker 1>me of in season four of The Wire, you know,

0:21:45.520 --> 0:21:49.520
<v Speaker 1>the one that's centered around these young men on the

0:21:49.520 --> 0:21:53.040
<v Speaker 1>street gam some of whom are are getting sucked more

0:21:53.080 --> 0:21:56.639
<v Speaker 1>into the life, others whom are going straight. But in

0:21:56.680 --> 0:21:59.560
<v Speaker 1>any case, they're just beginning to like sell drugs and

0:22:00.520 --> 0:22:03.680
<v Speaker 1>be involved on a street level, and they get ripped off.

0:22:03.720 --> 0:22:05.720
<v Speaker 1>A pair of them get ripped off by this other

0:22:05.800 --> 0:22:10.760
<v Speaker 1>drug dealer, and so they go and go to beat

0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:14.440
<v Speaker 1>them up, right, but then it turns into they might

0:22:14.520 --> 0:22:18.000
<v Speaker 1>have to shoot them. And I remember watching that and

0:22:18.040 --> 0:22:20.480
<v Speaker 1>being like shoot them and then being like, what's wrong

0:22:20.520 --> 0:22:24.760
<v Speaker 1>with me? Like actually, like I was like so like

0:22:25.160 --> 0:22:29.840
<v Speaker 1>I was, I was so taken aback with how like

0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:32.560
<v Speaker 1>sick and I was that this one kid didn't shoot

0:22:32.560 --> 0:22:33.960
<v Speaker 1>the other kid, and I was like, what the fuck

0:22:34.040 --> 0:22:37.320
<v Speaker 1>is wrong with me? Like that, I wanted this kid

0:22:37.320 --> 0:22:39.680
<v Speaker 1>to kill this other kid, Like that's what you want, right,

0:22:39.800 --> 0:22:42.320
<v Speaker 1>is for the shade of Violas to stop. Anyway, I

0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:43.960
<v Speaker 1>thought this was a really important.

0:22:43.560 --> 0:22:48.040
<v Speaker 4>Scene that they definitely definitely Sophia goes to see Eve,

0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:50.679
<v Speaker 4>and it turns out that it was Eve trying to

0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:53.800
<v Speaker 4>protect her women, the girls that worked for her that

0:22:54.000 --> 0:22:58.000
<v Speaker 4>put out her own location through Roxy, so that.

0:22:57.960 --> 0:22:59.879
<v Speaker 2>She was like, just like come to me, just like

0:23:00.119 --> 0:23:01.840
<v Speaker 2>the girls of the who wouldn't give her up, by

0:23:01.840 --> 0:23:03.320
<v Speaker 2>the way, And.

0:23:04.160 --> 0:23:06.840
<v Speaker 1>She does this primarily because she thinks that Sophia is

0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:09.760
<v Speaker 1>the hangman and might kill all her girls. Sophia and

0:23:09.800 --> 0:23:12.320
<v Speaker 1>sists she's not the hangman. She blames Oz for letting

0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:18.840
<v Speaker 1>the world think she was. Sophia also ruse the fact

0:23:18.840 --> 0:23:22.080
<v Speaker 1>that she understands she'll never have the loyalty of people

0:23:22.160 --> 0:23:25.920
<v Speaker 1>like Eve and the thing that she has with her

0:23:26.080 --> 0:23:29.600
<v Speaker 1>found family of women. And eventually Eve is like, I'll

0:23:29.600 --> 0:23:31.320
<v Speaker 1>tell her, Oz is he's over the east side by

0:23:31.359 --> 0:23:31.760
<v Speaker 1>the zoo.

0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, And that is like we were talking about earlier.

0:23:35.359 --> 0:23:39.119
<v Speaker 2>It's very much due to the fact that Eve is

0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:43.040
<v Speaker 2>talking about how these women that were killed were you know,

0:23:44.160 --> 0:23:48.040
<v Speaker 2>they were her family, they were people that she cared about,

0:23:48.160 --> 0:23:53.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, And it is that which tips her over

0:23:53.800 --> 0:23:59.000
<v Speaker 2>the edge where there is a moment where she realizes, well,

0:23:59.000 --> 0:24:01.560
<v Speaker 2>Oz kept this from me, and the thing I have

0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:04.440
<v Speaker 2>to do is protect these women. And how I can

0:24:04.480 --> 0:24:06.960
<v Speaker 2>do that is, you know what, I'll give Sophia her shot.

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Maybe she'll think about us in a different way next time.

0:24:10.280 --> 0:24:12.439
<v Speaker 2>Maybe she went turn up at my house dressed in

0:24:12.520 --> 0:24:14.600
<v Speaker 2>design and clothes with a gun. You know.

0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:19.480
<v Speaker 1>Let me give the counterfactual too. What's what was Oz's?

0:24:19.560 --> 0:24:24.919
<v Speaker 1>It's where's Alberto her beloved brother in proclaiming her innocence

0:24:25.240 --> 0:24:28.199
<v Speaker 1>exactly as the hangman? What is like a what is

0:24:28.240 --> 0:24:32.719
<v Speaker 1>her driver supposed to do? Mm hmmm, it's it's an

0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.120
<v Speaker 1>interesting conundrument. I think this is really really smart from

0:24:35.160 --> 0:24:38.720
<v Speaker 1>Sophia to not only to use her image as the

0:24:38.720 --> 0:24:41.959
<v Speaker 1>hangman in two ways, one to still fear across the

0:24:41.960 --> 0:24:46.959
<v Speaker 1>city and two to be like Oz, he framed me

0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:50.240
<v Speaker 1>as the hangman. It's so terrible. We gotta get this guy.

0:24:50.280 --> 0:24:55.240
<v Speaker 1>We gotta Vic returns to the underground as Oz is

0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:58.200
<v Speaker 1>preparing for the meet up and basically says like I,

0:24:58.640 --> 0:25:00.719
<v Speaker 1>in not so many words, like I took care of Squid.

0:25:00.720 --> 0:25:03.560
<v Speaker 1>And there's this warm moment where Oz says, like you

0:25:03.600 --> 0:25:06.199
<v Speaker 1>did the right thing. You're protecting the people that you

0:25:06.240 --> 0:25:07.960
<v Speaker 1>care about, the people who are closest to you.

0:25:08.080 --> 0:25:11.640
<v Speaker 2>And then he like hugs him while is like crying about.

0:25:11.320 --> 0:25:16.320
<v Speaker 1>It, which I sound to be both MacB and touching.

0:25:16.400 --> 0:25:19.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes, which I think is probably exactly what we wanted,

0:25:19.440 --> 0:25:20.440
<v Speaker 2>is probably what they want.

0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:25.360
<v Speaker 1>And he and he says very chillingly like it'll get easier.

0:25:25.440 --> 0:25:28.399
<v Speaker 1>Killing people can get easier and easier. Don't worry about it,

0:25:29.160 --> 0:25:33.080
<v Speaker 1>go home. Rest up. You committed your second murder. Don't

0:25:33.119 --> 0:25:36.000
<v Speaker 1>forget Vic, this is your second murder. You killed the

0:25:36.040 --> 0:25:37.000
<v Speaker 1>guy with the car.

0:25:37.160 --> 0:25:39.600
<v Speaker 2>Oh, he did, he did, he did crash that car

0:25:39.640 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 2>and number probably nimed a few other guys too.

0:25:43.640 --> 0:25:45.679
<v Speaker 1>That guy was just was so quick. I think that

0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:48.440
<v Speaker 1>it was not a problem. Vic didn't even Vic went

0:25:48.520 --> 0:25:50.480
<v Speaker 1>right to sleep and didn't. It never troubled.

0:25:52.480 --> 0:25:54.840
<v Speaker 2>He was also like a paw of you know, the

0:25:54.880 --> 0:25:58.080
<v Speaker 2>whole like kidnapping Taj and like ten people got a

0:25:58.119 --> 0:26:01.600
<v Speaker 2>shot in the Tattoo studio and then Taj was Soundpaia

0:26:01.680 --> 0:26:04.360
<v Speaker 2>with his mom Like, I do feel like that's something that.

0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:08.520
<v Speaker 1>Oz goes to meet the street level crews, and this

0:26:08.560 --> 0:26:12.399
<v Speaker 1>is fun because we get to meet some folks uh

0:26:12.520 --> 0:26:16.960
<v Speaker 1>to the street level crew captains include Abel Crown, who

0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:22.200
<v Speaker 1>is the boss of the Massive appears in the comics

0:26:22.560 --> 0:26:25.880
<v Speaker 1>and Tryad boss Jao, who we've met before. He brings

0:26:26.600 --> 0:26:29.320
<v Speaker 1>a cooler of beer which he offers them all the

0:26:29.320 --> 0:26:31.879
<v Speaker 1>Beer Summit, and then he.

0:26:31.960 --> 0:26:34.879
<v Speaker 2>And it's the Mayor is like a gold something and

0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:36.720
<v Speaker 2>this is the Gold Summet.

0:26:37.760 --> 0:26:41.040
<v Speaker 1>And he makes his pitch. He says, Hey, the Massive,

0:26:41.080 --> 0:26:44.159
<v Speaker 1>the Low Boys, the Irish, Sullivan's, the Triads, We're at

0:26:44.160 --> 0:26:47.200
<v Speaker 1>each other's throats. I think it's also important to note

0:26:47.200 --> 0:26:50.520
<v Speaker 1>that this is all like this is it's a diverse

0:26:50.520 --> 0:26:55.040
<v Speaker 1>collection of this is immigrant like immigrant groups, you know,

0:26:55.880 --> 0:26:57.280
<v Speaker 1>the black gangs.

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 2>Speaking speaking of someone who's like utilizing an emotional like connection.

0:27:03.760 --> 0:27:06.640
<v Speaker 3>Oz is very much in that Machiavelly and Bakes.

0:27:06.880 --> 0:27:10.840
<v Speaker 1>I think this is he's he's making a class based pitch,

0:27:10.880 --> 0:27:13.280
<v Speaker 1>and I think it's very smart as well. It's so clever,

0:27:13.640 --> 0:27:16.600
<v Speaker 1>it's and he says, listen that the Gigantes, the Maronis,

0:27:17.840 --> 0:27:20.600
<v Speaker 1>they fed us scraps, kept us outside of power, kept

0:27:20.640 --> 0:27:24.560
<v Speaker 1>us killing each other. So here's the pitch. We band together?

0:27:24.680 --> 0:27:27.080
<v Speaker 1>Why not us? Why don't we take power? Look at

0:27:27.080 --> 0:27:29.879
<v Speaker 1>the way the Gigantes and the Maronis had to team

0:27:30.000 --> 0:27:33.040
<v Speaker 1>up in order to keep us down, keep their boot

0:27:33.119 --> 0:27:37.360
<v Speaker 1>on our necks. Now is the time to take the

0:27:37.400 --> 0:27:40.719
<v Speaker 1>city from them. And Jow points out that how can

0:27:40.760 --> 0:27:42.920
<v Speaker 1>you trust this guy Oz? He's he'll say anything, he'll

0:27:42.960 --> 0:27:45.320
<v Speaker 1>do anything to get a leg up. And Oz is like, yeah, yeah,

0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:48.480
<v Speaker 1>go ahead and kill me, but you know this is

0:27:48.520 --> 0:27:51.919
<v Speaker 1>our chance, right, And he admits it. He's like, yeah,

0:27:51.960 --> 0:27:53.520
<v Speaker 1>I two time, the Maroni's I two times.

0:27:53.520 --> 0:27:56.439
<v Speaker 2>The fuck He's like, I killed Alba. Look, I think this.

0:27:56.760 --> 0:28:00.000
<v Speaker 2>I think this whole season is calling Farrell he should

0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:01.879
<v Speaker 2>get an Emmy, right, And he's gunning for it. But

0:28:01.920 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 2>this scene where he does his little monologue and he

0:28:04.920 --> 0:28:06.800
<v Speaker 2>kind of is like, yeah, everything you've heard about me

0:28:06.920 --> 0:28:08.800
<v Speaker 2>is true, and he's like and I'm just the poor

0:28:08.920 --> 0:28:12.040
<v Speaker 2>kid who's like doing whatever I can to come up.

0:28:12.040 --> 0:28:12.760
<v Speaker 3>Just like you are.

0:28:13.000 --> 0:28:15.760
<v Speaker 2>And I will say there's some great cinematography in this episode,

0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:17.760
<v Speaker 2>and our super producer Joelle pointed.

0:28:17.440 --> 0:28:20.760
<v Speaker 3>This out, but we get just as much as we get.

0:28:20.640 --> 0:28:24.320
<v Speaker 2>To see the gang leaders react to this news and

0:28:24.400 --> 0:28:27.439
<v Speaker 2>this pitch, there are these shots of all their second

0:28:27.440 --> 0:28:31.000
<v Speaker 2>in commands, who are all younger, even poorer, even hungrier,

0:28:31.080 --> 0:28:34.560
<v Speaker 2>and obviously are also connecting to what Oz is saying.

0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:37.880
<v Speaker 2>So there's definitely different layers to this. And yeah, it's

0:28:38.080 --> 0:28:42.360
<v Speaker 2>very interesting. But his honesty it seems to work. His

0:28:42.520 --> 0:28:44.320
<v Speaker 2>admittance of what he has done.

0:28:45.120 --> 0:28:50.360
<v Speaker 1>And I think he really I think his the fact

0:28:50.400 --> 0:28:53.200
<v Speaker 1>that he really believes this, I think is what sways them.

0:28:53.520 --> 0:28:57.320
<v Speaker 1>Oh definitely he believes this, and he says, like I

0:28:57.360 --> 0:28:59.760
<v Speaker 1>did what I would it took because at the end

0:28:59.760 --> 0:29:02.400
<v Speaker 1>of the I'm like you, I'm a poor kid from

0:29:02.800 --> 0:29:05.440
<v Speaker 1>Crown Point to the East Side where there's no power on,

0:29:05.600 --> 0:29:07.640
<v Speaker 1>where the rest of the city is like lit up

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:11.600
<v Speaker 1>everybody's forgotten about us. They don't even know they're killing

0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:13.480
<v Speaker 1>your guys. They don't even know what the name of

0:29:13.520 --> 0:29:15.680
<v Speaker 1>your gang is. They don't even know who you are.

0:29:16.840 --> 0:29:22.240
<v Speaker 1>And everybody agrees, including crucially Jao, who.

0:29:22.000 --> 0:29:25.320
<v Speaker 2>Is the lost one to crack his bier and oz

0:29:25.840 --> 0:29:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Oz gets his beer and he SIPs it, but we

0:29:28.600 --> 0:29:30.680
<v Speaker 2>don't see the rest of them drink it, which I

0:29:30.720 --> 0:29:33.640
<v Speaker 2>think is very interesting And to me immediately was like,

0:29:34.240 --> 0:29:36.320
<v Speaker 2>did he poison the biz? Like is this another one

0:29:36.320 --> 0:29:39.160
<v Speaker 2>of his crazy cus? I don't think so, but I

0:29:39.200 --> 0:29:40.760
<v Speaker 2>also wouldn't put it past him.

0:29:41.120 --> 0:29:44.160
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't put it past him, but I think he

0:29:44.240 --> 0:29:46.200
<v Speaker 1>needs them too much. But it's an interesting idea.

0:29:46.320 --> 0:29:46.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:29:47.000 --> 0:29:50.600
<v Speaker 1>Back at the apartment, Vic still feeling guilty about the

0:29:51.240 --> 0:29:55.920
<v Speaker 1>at least his second murder, at least at least is

0:29:56.000 --> 0:29:58.640
<v Speaker 1>shocked when the power comes back on and Crown Point

0:29:59.240 --> 0:30:03.280
<v Speaker 1>music comes. He begins dancing with Ma when Sophia sneaks

0:30:03.280 --> 0:30:04.280
<v Speaker 1>in to observe them.

0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:09.240
<v Speaker 2>Oh, and Mama, cob is not being sobtle. She's like,

0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:11.760
<v Speaker 2>my boy, Ozzie, he did it for me, my son,

0:30:11.840 --> 0:30:14.120
<v Speaker 2>that's my son. Os what cobblepot the guy you're looking for?

0:30:14.280 --> 0:30:18.440
<v Speaker 2>It's him she's really like. And also, I do really

0:30:18.520 --> 0:30:22.160
<v Speaker 2>like this reveal, not about Sophia being next, cause I

0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:23.800
<v Speaker 2>think we could all kind of see that was right,

0:30:23.800 --> 0:30:24.480
<v Speaker 2>it was gonna lead.

0:30:24.560 --> 0:30:26.880
<v Speaker 3>Even though well done. I love Sophia, you.

0:30:26.840 --> 0:30:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Know, I support her, but yeah, I love the reveal

0:30:30.720 --> 0:30:34.080
<v Speaker 2>that in Gotham, this is how things work. If you

0:30:34.080 --> 0:30:37.400
<v Speaker 2>want the power turned on, if you want the corrupt

0:30:37.440 --> 0:30:39.760
<v Speaker 2>politicians to stop doing, you just have to go and

0:30:39.800 --> 0:30:43.080
<v Speaker 2>strong arm them, put some pliers up their nose, threaten

0:30:43.120 --> 0:30:45.520
<v Speaker 2>them a little bit, and then boom, this can happen.

0:30:45.800 --> 0:30:48.240
<v Speaker 2>What I think this show is doing so well is

0:30:48.640 --> 0:30:53.720
<v Speaker 2>it is really building the world of the Batman and

0:30:53.800 --> 0:30:56.520
<v Speaker 2>It's Gotham and just how corrupt it is and why

0:30:57.080 --> 0:31:00.560
<v Speaker 2>it feels like why Bruce Wayne feels like he has

0:31:00.600 --> 0:31:01.880
<v Speaker 2>to exist in this space.

0:31:01.920 --> 0:31:03.400
<v Speaker 3>And I think it does that really well.

0:31:03.440 --> 0:31:07.800
<v Speaker 2>And I love the class politics and I love it too,

0:31:08.280 --> 0:31:09.840
<v Speaker 2>the way that building it out.

0:31:10.480 --> 0:31:13.160
<v Speaker 1>And it's why I've been like, you know you sway

0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:18.160
<v Speaker 1>back and forth. I'm supporting Sophia, supporting oz I. It's

0:31:18.200 --> 0:31:22.760
<v Speaker 1>interesting I thought of this episode in the context of

0:31:22.800 --> 0:31:25.200
<v Speaker 1>this an article I read in The New Yorker about

0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:28.200
<v Speaker 1>this book from the early twentieth century called Plunkett of

0:31:28.200 --> 0:31:30.520
<v Speaker 1>Tammany Hall. Plunkett of Tammany Hall was this like New

0:31:30.560 --> 0:31:35.280
<v Speaker 1>York machine politician who made these speeches basically arguing for

0:31:35.360 --> 0:31:37.480
<v Speaker 1>a benign version of corruption.

0:31:38.000 --> 0:31:41.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, like it's okay, that's just what happens, that's how things.

0:31:41.160 --> 0:31:45.000
<v Speaker 1>Well, I think the point being that, of course corruption

0:31:45.160 --> 0:31:47.920
<v Speaker 1>is some kind of horse trading, is always how it works.

0:31:48.160 --> 0:31:51.640
<v Speaker 1>But the point of the article was that in the

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:57.880
<v Speaker 1>during this time, corruption used to work for the poor people,

0:31:58.000 --> 0:31:59.920
<v Speaker 1>used to work for immigrants, that used to work for

0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:02.920
<v Speaker 1>the people who just got here. It used to work

0:32:02.960 --> 0:32:05.040
<v Speaker 1>for those not in power, and now it works for

0:32:05.120 --> 0:32:07.280
<v Speaker 1>those in power. And I think one of the interesting

0:32:07.320 --> 0:32:11.720
<v Speaker 1>things about this episode for me is that in this

0:32:12.160 --> 0:32:16.640
<v Speaker 1>competition between various really really terrible people, Oz is the

0:32:16.640 --> 0:32:17.680
<v Speaker 1>one that got the lights on.

0:32:18.200 --> 0:32:22.240
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, exactly the end of the day, when for the

0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:24.600
<v Speaker 3>community it's Oz there.

0:32:24.520 --> 0:32:27.320
<v Speaker 1>Is And this is obviously very self serving in his

0:32:27.520 --> 0:32:30.560
<v Speaker 1>and he's talked about this is his strategy is my

0:32:30.720 --> 0:32:33.040
<v Speaker 1>shield is going to be that everybody in the neighborhood

0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:37.800
<v Speaker 1>loves me, And I think that And at the same

0:32:37.840 --> 0:32:41.440
<v Speaker 1>time you have Sophia saying, why can't I get anybody

0:32:41.480 --> 0:32:44.760
<v Speaker 1>to be loyal to me the way, Well, this is

0:32:44.760 --> 0:32:49.920
<v Speaker 1>why this is, and it's I just think that dichotomy

0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:53.880
<v Speaker 1>is fascinating because what Oz is realized is, yes, I'm

0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:58.000
<v Speaker 1>doing criminality, I'm killing people doing I'm basically in the

0:32:58.120 --> 0:33:02.440
<v Speaker 1>running to be a version of the thing that I

0:33:02.520 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 1>am talking against. Like I'm gonna be sal Maroni, I'm

0:33:08.040 --> 0:33:11.400
<v Speaker 1>gonna be Carmine Falcone, just my version of it, right

0:33:12.400 --> 0:33:16.440
<v Speaker 1>but with my people installed. But he's doing it in

0:33:16.480 --> 0:33:21.840
<v Speaker 1>a way that the people who truly are at the

0:33:22.200 --> 0:33:24.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, at the having the short end of the stick,

0:33:25.800 --> 0:33:28.280
<v Speaker 1>can feel like they're benefiting from it. And that's the

0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:31.560
<v Speaker 1>difference between him Sofia. And that's what's really interesting because

0:33:31.600 --> 0:33:34.200
<v Speaker 1>like he has even even says like, what do you know?

0:33:34.280 --> 0:33:36.280
<v Speaker 1>You fucking came from the lap of luxury and now

0:33:36.320 --> 0:33:37.920
<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, like you're making a pitch to

0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:40.240
<v Speaker 1>be the crime boss of Gotham.

0:33:40.320 --> 0:33:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Also, like Sophia has no interest in anything except revenge,

0:33:44.560 --> 0:33:45.000
<v Speaker 2>she is.

0:33:45.000 --> 0:33:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Conssume important point whereas it's an important point.

0:33:47.800 --> 0:33:51.960
<v Speaker 2>Whereas Oz has always had this duality of wanting to

0:33:51.960 --> 0:33:55.960
<v Speaker 2>make his mom proud, wanting to be a mobster, but

0:33:56.120 --> 0:34:00.800
<v Speaker 2>he does still have all those experiences that shape two ears,

0:34:00.800 --> 0:34:02.560
<v Speaker 2>and one of them is growing up super poor and

0:34:02.600 --> 0:34:05.160
<v Speaker 2>wanting to help out. And also this is a time

0:34:05.240 --> 0:34:10.040
<v Speaker 2>tested tradition of mobs, like you've got to always be

0:34:10.080 --> 0:34:12.280
<v Speaker 2>looking out for the community, you got to be helping

0:34:12.320 --> 0:34:14.880
<v Speaker 2>out with the parades, you gotta be giving the kids

0:34:14.880 --> 0:34:21.319
<v Speaker 2>some money. But yeah, I do think you raise a

0:34:21.320 --> 0:34:25.280
<v Speaker 2>great question. And when it comes to like morally and ethically, obviously,

0:34:25.360 --> 0:34:27.319
<v Speaker 2>I have my problems with Oz and the way that

0:34:27.360 --> 0:34:29.680
<v Speaker 2>he treated Sofia, and I love Sophia, but I love

0:34:29.719 --> 0:34:34.880
<v Speaker 2>Sophia as a very well written and complex extension of

0:34:35.040 --> 0:34:38.280
<v Speaker 2>like the crazy woman trope, right, Like she's so brilliant

0:34:38.320 --> 0:34:39.040
<v Speaker 2>and so interesting.

0:34:39.120 --> 0:34:41.760
<v Speaker 3>But when it comes to like who would you probably

0:34:41.880 --> 0:34:43.600
<v Speaker 3>rather have in charge of an underworld?

0:34:43.920 --> 0:34:46.240
<v Speaker 2>The pitch that Oz has is better.

0:34:46.480 --> 0:34:48.240
<v Speaker 3>It's very it's very very strong.

0:34:48.360 --> 0:34:51.560
<v Speaker 2>But he is also like he's so reckless and this

0:34:51.719 --> 0:34:54.480
<v Speaker 2>is just brilliant writing with the show. It makes me

0:34:54.560 --> 0:34:56.920
<v Speaker 2>nervous when I watch the show, the way that he

0:34:57.000 --> 0:35:00.320
<v Speaker 2>kind of like improvises in skirts and he's like this

0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:01.840
<v Speaker 2>and this and this is it's.

0:35:01.840 --> 0:35:03.680
<v Speaker 3>So anxiety and juicing.

0:35:03.920 --> 0:35:05.720
<v Speaker 2>I think not for me as well as maybe why

0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:08.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't see that message of stability that he's offering

0:35:09.000 --> 0:35:11.080
<v Speaker 2>because the way he does it and the insight we

0:35:11.120 --> 0:35:13.680
<v Speaker 2>get into his mind is like, this is someone who

0:35:13.680 --> 0:35:15.880
<v Speaker 2>can tie on a dime and that I think.

0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:18.400
<v Speaker 1>That that You bring up a good point, which is

0:35:18.440 --> 0:35:21.840
<v Speaker 1>we saw it when Oz was bullshitting with Joao the

0:35:21.880 --> 0:35:24.440
<v Speaker 1>first time at the club and he turns to Sofia

0:35:24.480 --> 0:35:26.759
<v Speaker 1>after Jah walks away, and he's like, this is great, right,

0:35:26.920 --> 0:35:30.200
<v Speaker 1>and she's like what he You know, it's like the

0:35:30.280 --> 0:35:32.399
<v Speaker 1>line from Heat for him, the action is the Jew. Yeah,

0:35:32.400 --> 0:35:35.080
<v Speaker 1>he likes maybe not all of the.

0:35:35.120 --> 0:35:38.920
<v Speaker 2>Juice Sarson of the Jews, he loves the game.

0:35:39.760 --> 0:35:42.840
<v Speaker 1>You're absolutely right, that's there. And while he's making this

0:35:42.920 --> 0:35:45.719
<v Speaker 1>pitch for this grand unified come up of all the

0:35:45.800 --> 0:35:48.319
<v Speaker 1>downtrodden gangs, we're on the profit of. Lights are on.

0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:51.320
<v Speaker 1>Look at this ground point is back, you know people,

0:35:51.400 --> 0:35:54.319
<v Speaker 1>the refrigerators are working and all this is great. At

0:35:54.320 --> 0:35:58.360
<v Speaker 1>the same time, this guy's a bootleg gambler. Yeah, exactly.

0:35:59.080 --> 0:36:02.799
<v Speaker 1>He will gain and he loves it. He wants to

0:36:02.840 --> 0:36:05.160
<v Speaker 1>take these risks, and I think you're right to point

0:36:05.200 --> 0:36:07.759
<v Speaker 1>that out, Like there is a core of instability in

0:36:07.800 --> 0:36:12.240
<v Speaker 1>this guy. Like he there is a chaotic thing about him.

0:36:12.880 --> 0:36:17.000
<v Speaker 1>If he if he cements his control over this area

0:36:17.040 --> 0:36:21.040
<v Speaker 1>of Gotham and this underworld, stabilize it, He's still gonna

0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:24.239
<v Speaker 1>be that guy who wants to throw the dice and

0:36:24.320 --> 0:36:25.319
<v Speaker 1>see what comes up.

0:36:25.360 --> 0:36:27.520
<v Speaker 2>And if Batman comes and like puts him in a

0:36:27.600 --> 0:36:30.680
<v Speaker 2>choke hold, then it's gonna kill him. Like maybe he's

0:36:30.719 --> 0:36:32.759
<v Speaker 2>gonna turn on everyone that you just never know. But

0:36:32.800 --> 0:36:35.800
<v Speaker 2>I think that's what is such a it's make watching

0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:37.759
<v Speaker 2>this show such an enticing prospect.

0:36:37.840 --> 0:36:54.959
<v Speaker 5>We'll be right back after a quick break, and we're back.

0:36:55.040 --> 0:36:57.360
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So we got two episodes left of the season.

0:36:57.440 --> 0:37:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what are your theories for the two five or episodes?

0:37:01.040 --> 0:37:03.600
<v Speaker 3>Is Sophia just going to kill Mark Cobb? Is it

0:37:03.640 --> 0:37:06.200
<v Speaker 3>that simple? Is that what we're going to see? I

0:37:06.200 --> 0:37:07.920
<v Speaker 3>don't want to look. I don't want to see.

0:37:07.920 --> 0:37:10.080
<v Speaker 2>There was a lot of discussion in the discord, which

0:37:10.120 --> 0:37:13.680
<v Speaker 2>I found very interesting about episode four of this season

0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:18.040
<v Speaker 2>and how it was pretty hard to watch and like

0:37:18.719 --> 0:37:23.840
<v Speaker 2>where is the balance between like showing really horrib for

0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:30.080
<v Speaker 2>I personally found it very harrowing, but also very moving

0:37:30.160 --> 0:37:32.680
<v Speaker 2>and quite cathartic. I thought it was interesting to show

0:37:32.840 --> 0:37:35.600
<v Speaker 2>the reality some of the aversion of the realities that

0:37:35.600 --> 0:37:37.919
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people do go through when they're incarcerated,

0:37:38.560 --> 0:37:41.400
<v Speaker 2>and the history of like women being institutionalized. But I

0:37:41.920 --> 0:37:44.440
<v Speaker 2>do have to say, I don't want to see like

0:37:44.600 --> 0:37:47.439
<v Speaker 2>a woman with dementia being like tortured, Like I don't

0:37:47.440 --> 0:37:49.239
<v Speaker 2>want to have to see that, and I'm hoping that

0:37:49.320 --> 0:37:49.880
<v Speaker 2>the show.

0:37:50.320 --> 0:37:51.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm hoping the show doesn't go that route.

0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:55.440
<v Speaker 2>But it does feel like the inevitable domino effect is

0:37:56.360 --> 0:38:00.880
<v Speaker 2>Mark Cobb dies in episode seven and vic Oz kills

0:38:00.960 --> 0:38:03.759
<v Speaker 2>vic because of that an episode eight, Like that's I

0:38:03.760 --> 0:38:05.279
<v Speaker 2>don't want it to be that way, but I think

0:38:05.320 --> 0:38:08.400
<v Speaker 2>that's the logical domino effect, you know.

0:38:08.520 --> 0:38:10.239
<v Speaker 1>I go back and forth, and I think that's what's

0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:12.640
<v Speaker 1>so great about this show is that it always seems

0:38:12.719 --> 0:38:15.080
<v Speaker 1>like the most the thing that you think has the

0:38:15.160 --> 0:38:17.080
<v Speaker 1>least chance of happening ends up happening.

0:38:17.160 --> 0:38:19.120
<v Speaker 2>It happens, really but that's actually a great point.

0:38:19.960 --> 0:38:23.279
<v Speaker 1>Like there's one thing I really respect about this show,

0:38:23.320 --> 0:38:25.719
<v Speaker 1>and it's a thing I loved about Breaking Bad was

0:38:25.760 --> 0:38:31.520
<v Speaker 1>that there's a pace and an unrelenting momentum to put

0:38:31.800 --> 0:38:36.360
<v Speaker 1>characters in impossible positions and then say figure it, like

0:38:36.440 --> 0:38:40.520
<v Speaker 1>get it figure out somehow, and it always comes much

0:38:40.600 --> 0:38:44.560
<v Speaker 1>quicker than you. You think the show would sit in

0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:47.760
<v Speaker 1>a moment of victory for Sophia, for Oz for a moment,

0:38:47.880 --> 0:38:50.239
<v Speaker 1>but it never does. It immediately hits you with the

0:38:50.360 --> 0:38:53.160
<v Speaker 1>unexpected thing. And so I feel like, like, what is

0:38:53.200 --> 0:38:56.480
<v Speaker 1>the most what's the thing that you can't see happening

0:38:56.560 --> 0:38:59.560
<v Speaker 1>right now? To me is like Oz and Sophia patching

0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:03.680
<v Speaker 1>it up. And now I'm wondering, Okay, I would love

0:39:03.840 --> 0:39:07.160
<v Speaker 1>that because I can't see how it could happen, which

0:39:07.200 --> 0:39:10.480
<v Speaker 1>makes me feel like it could happen. It could happen.

0:39:10.600 --> 0:39:12.160
<v Speaker 3>You're right, how I mean?

0:39:12.640 --> 0:39:16.080
<v Speaker 2>I will say, like, for all we know, if we're

0:39:16.160 --> 0:39:20.279
<v Speaker 2>just doing a little bit of like writers rim brainstorming here, yeah,

0:39:20.600 --> 0:39:24.920
<v Speaker 2>for all we know, Sophia believes that Oz played a

0:39:24.960 --> 0:39:28.719
<v Speaker 2>bigger part in her being put away than she did

0:39:28.880 --> 0:39:31.640
<v Speaker 2>than he did, and maybe that's why it's been so

0:39:31.760 --> 0:39:36.279
<v Speaker 2>overstated for her. And also maybe she discovers something that

0:39:36.320 --> 0:39:39.440
<v Speaker 2>reveals that's not the case, or maybe she discovers that

0:39:39.560 --> 0:39:43.360
<v Speaker 2>Moroni has somewhow betrayed her. I could see a version

0:39:43.400 --> 0:39:47.719
<v Speaker 2>where these two odd ball kind of outsiders who have

0:39:47.800 --> 0:39:51.320
<v Speaker 2>already had this connection of trust at some point patch

0:39:51.360 --> 0:39:53.440
<v Speaker 2>it up to a point. I mean, if I was

0:39:53.480 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 2>the showrunner, I would just want to do that because

0:39:55.200 --> 0:39:58.919
<v Speaker 2>I would want Sophia Giganti to be in The Batman too.

0:39:59.440 --> 0:40:01.319
<v Speaker 3>But I I do think you're right.

0:40:01.400 --> 0:40:05.400
<v Speaker 2>I think that the least likely thing does sometimes feel

0:40:05.440 --> 0:40:06.280
<v Speaker 2>like it's gonna happen.

0:40:06.600 --> 0:40:08.640
<v Speaker 3>The sad thing about the vic thing is I do

0:40:08.960 --> 0:40:11.880
<v Speaker 3>to me it feels fair complex.

0:40:12.120 --> 0:40:14.279
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and also but it's also like, in a way

0:40:14.360 --> 0:40:17.320
<v Speaker 2>it kind of fits this because it feels like it

0:40:17.840 --> 0:40:22.000
<v Speaker 2>just shouldn't happen, because like Venzi is so great in

0:40:22.040 --> 0:40:25.399
<v Speaker 2>this role, and there's so many potentials. He could become

0:40:25.440 --> 0:40:28.560
<v Speaker 2>a Robin. He could definitely become some version of like

0:40:28.600 --> 0:40:31.000
<v Speaker 2>the Red Hood, like a Jason Todd style. He kind

0:40:31.000 --> 0:40:33.239
<v Speaker 2>of fits a lot of what we know about Tim Drake.

0:40:33.480 --> 0:40:35.000
<v Speaker 2>There are all these ways that it feels like he

0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:37.879
<v Speaker 2>could fit into the wider world really easily. And that's

0:40:37.880 --> 0:40:43.120
<v Speaker 2>why I think that he won't because it feels too connective.

0:40:44.000 --> 0:40:47.680
<v Speaker 1>Here's what I think may happen. I think episode seven

0:40:47.920 --> 0:40:53.920
<v Speaker 1>Oz gives himself up to Sophia because she's got mom oh,

0:40:53.960 --> 0:40:59.120
<v Speaker 1>and then they frame doctor Rush as the Hangman. He

0:40:59.160 --> 0:41:04.000
<v Speaker 1>takes the fall as hang man, yeah, thus absolving Sophia

0:41:04.640 --> 0:41:08.239
<v Speaker 1>of that, and then somehow they patch it up, but

0:41:08.360 --> 0:41:11.919
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how, and I could easily be wrong.

0:41:12.120 --> 0:41:13.680
<v Speaker 2>I think we should talk a little bit more about

0:41:13.760 --> 0:41:16.239
<v Speaker 2>Eve as well, because Carmen and Joe Go is so good.

0:41:16.360 --> 0:41:17.520
<v Speaker 2>That's her, and I think.

0:41:17.360 --> 0:41:19.560
<v Speaker 1>She's wonderful, established, very strong.

0:41:19.680 --> 0:41:24.040
<v Speaker 2>Her is essentially like an actual moral center of the

0:41:24.120 --> 0:41:26.720
<v Speaker 2>show because she does have that loyalty with her friends,

0:41:27.160 --> 0:41:29.840
<v Speaker 2>with her colleagues, her coworkers, the women who work on

0:41:29.880 --> 0:41:33.279
<v Speaker 2>the streets, and she does also have this connection. We

0:41:33.360 --> 0:41:36.040
<v Speaker 2>know she's called Eve Carlo, so I do think they're

0:41:36.160 --> 0:41:39.719
<v Speaker 2>essentially establishing a world where Clayface.

0:41:39.320 --> 0:41:39.960
<v Speaker 3>Was her father.

0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:42.520
<v Speaker 2>I once saw Matt Reeves say he would never know

0:41:42.560 --> 0:41:44.239
<v Speaker 2>how to do Clayface because he wouldn't know how to

0:41:44.280 --> 0:41:45.799
<v Speaker 2>do it in a way that was grounded. But I

0:41:45.800 --> 0:41:47.319
<v Speaker 2>think there's many ways you could do it, and I

0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:50.240
<v Speaker 2>think maybe the fact that she's called Eve Carlo hints

0:41:50.320 --> 0:41:51.040
<v Speaker 2>a bigger.

0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:51.279
<v Speaker 3>Role for her.

0:41:51.600 --> 0:41:54.640
<v Speaker 2>I she is actually now at my top of my

0:41:54.760 --> 0:41:57.919
<v Speaker 2>list of people that I think will survive. I think

0:41:57.960 --> 0:42:01.520
<v Speaker 2>that she is now reflecting what Oz does, where he

0:42:01.560 --> 0:42:03.640
<v Speaker 2>plays the people he needs to play and I think

0:42:03.680 --> 0:42:06.760
<v Speaker 2>in this case, she made the right gambit with Sophia,

0:42:07.320 --> 0:42:10.560
<v Speaker 2>and I think that she will survive because I don't

0:42:10.600 --> 0:42:14.200
<v Speaker 2>think Oz will believe or think that it was her

0:42:14.280 --> 0:42:15.120
<v Speaker 2>who betrayed him.

0:42:15.600 --> 0:42:18.080
<v Speaker 1>I do. I do worry that she may die as

0:42:18.160 --> 0:42:21.759
<v Speaker 1>a that he will find out and may have her killed.

0:42:21.800 --> 0:42:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I will say that I thought this was an amazing

0:42:24.520 --> 0:42:27.520
<v Speaker 1>conversation and it was actually the most I thought it was, like,

0:42:27.960 --> 0:42:31.160
<v Speaker 1>you know, from a moral framework, ifyone could apply that

0:42:31.280 --> 0:42:33.480
<v Speaker 1>to these characters. I thought it was like the worst

0:42:33.480 --> 0:42:37.399
<v Speaker 1>moment for Sophia. Yeah, like it's her, it's her most manipulative,

0:42:37.880 --> 0:42:42.320
<v Speaker 1>it's her most It's to your point, she's all about

0:42:42.360 --> 0:42:45.719
<v Speaker 1>revenge and she uses the memories of these women to

0:42:45.840 --> 0:42:48.799
<v Speaker 1>get it. Yeah, you know, to take their pain and

0:42:48.840 --> 0:42:52.479
<v Speaker 1>put it on her and say, really it's aren't I Like, yes,

0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:55.480
<v Speaker 1>I was put into Arkham and it was horrible what

0:42:55.560 --> 0:42:57.279
<v Speaker 1>I went through, but like, really, like, we can get

0:42:57.280 --> 0:42:59.440
<v Speaker 1>revenge by killing this guy who didn't even kill her.

0:43:00.760 --> 0:43:04.600
<v Speaker 1>That's basically her pitch. And again using the image of

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:11.440
<v Speaker 1>the hangman to inflict terror on the streets and at

0:43:11.440 --> 0:43:14.560
<v Speaker 1>the same time like putting up this is terrible what

0:43:14.600 --> 0:43:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Iz did to me made everybody think I'm the hangman.

0:43:16.880 --> 0:43:18.879
<v Speaker 1>I could, by the way, go to the press any

0:43:18.960 --> 0:43:20.799
<v Speaker 1>day that they would listen to me as the daughter

0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:23.640
<v Speaker 1>of Carmine Falcon, Like I could do that now and say,

0:43:23.800 --> 0:43:26.320
<v Speaker 1>you want a dynamite story, Carmine Falcone is the hangman.

0:43:26.480 --> 0:43:28.640
<v Speaker 2>I will say as well, like there are people who

0:43:28.680 --> 0:43:30.680
<v Speaker 2>know that he killed these women, and that came out

0:43:30.680 --> 0:43:32.319
<v Speaker 2>at the end of The Batman, at least at.

0:43:32.280 --> 0:43:37.080
<v Speaker 1>Least pot there's many, many people, like surely everybody at

0:43:37.120 --> 0:43:39.640
<v Speaker 1>the club and everybody at the top level of the vocals.

0:43:39.760 --> 0:43:41.080
<v Speaker 3>I think it's very interesting.

0:43:41.160 --> 0:43:46.000
<v Speaker 2>Also, I think this is the power of this space

0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:50.000
<v Speaker 2>that they're building and the brave choices they make to

0:43:50.320 --> 0:43:54.799
<v Speaker 2>not instantly do easy connections, because it would have been

0:43:54.880 --> 0:43:57.640
<v Speaker 2>very easy for them to include Maria Kyle here, like

0:43:57.719 --> 0:44:01.920
<v Speaker 2>Selina's mom that we found out about in The Batman.

0:44:02.239 --> 0:44:04.600
<v Speaker 2>Now she was not She was a waitress at the

0:44:04.640 --> 0:44:07.920
<v Speaker 2>Iceberg Lounge, so we don't know what that means. She

0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:09.880
<v Speaker 2>could be, she could have been a sex worker. It

0:44:09.880 --> 0:44:11.719
<v Speaker 2>would have been easy for them to mention her here

0:44:11.760 --> 0:44:14.399
<v Speaker 2>when Eve does her speech, but she doesn't. I also

0:44:14.480 --> 0:44:18.240
<v Speaker 2>do wonder, Okay, So I speaking of connections, an uneasy

0:44:18.239 --> 0:44:21.040
<v Speaker 2>connection that I think would be very interesting to make here,

0:44:21.560 --> 0:44:28.640
<v Speaker 2>would be if there if somehow. I mean, this is

0:44:28.680 --> 0:44:30.839
<v Speaker 2>probably wishing too big because I think they haven't done

0:44:30.840 --> 0:44:32.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of connective stuff in this, but they've done

0:44:32.960 --> 0:44:35.520
<v Speaker 2>a great job of building it, aside from obviously having

0:44:35.960 --> 0:44:39.120
<v Speaker 2>Colin as the penguin. But I do think that there

0:44:39.160 --> 0:44:42.080
<v Speaker 2>is something very interesting and appealing as a viewer, and

0:44:42.120 --> 0:44:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure as a storyteller about the fact that Sophia

0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:50.399
<v Speaker 2>Falcone and Selena Kayle are half sisters. And I do

0:44:50.520 --> 0:44:54.560
<v Speaker 2>wonder if there's anything in these next two episodes that

0:44:54.719 --> 0:44:58.840
<v Speaker 2>a way that Sophia finds out that Carmen had other children,

0:44:59.000 --> 0:45:02.000
<v Speaker 2>or that there's because in Sofia's mind, that would be

0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:05.719
<v Speaker 2>a threat, that's somebody who could take away from her,

0:45:06.320 --> 0:45:10.279
<v Speaker 2>you know, her her queendom that she is currently building on,

0:45:10.400 --> 0:45:14.239
<v Speaker 2>the kind of bones of this vengeful killing spree that

0:45:14.320 --> 0:45:14.600
<v Speaker 2>she's on.

0:45:15.760 --> 0:45:20.040
<v Speaker 1>I do wonder if we don't see Eve she's masterfully

0:45:20.080 --> 0:45:23.760
<v Speaker 1>played these two characters often and gotten what she's needed

0:45:23.960 --> 0:45:28.080
<v Speaker 1>exactly and from Sophia at different times. I wonder if

0:45:28.120 --> 0:45:31.600
<v Speaker 1>she doesn't parley that into something more for her and

0:45:31.640 --> 0:45:35.120
<v Speaker 1>the girl, something more for them, you know, whether.

0:45:36.040 --> 0:45:38.399
<v Speaker 3>Even I mean from Oz, there could be some kind

0:45:38.440 --> 0:45:38.759
<v Speaker 3>of a.

0:45:38.680 --> 0:45:41.480
<v Speaker 2>Better split if they worked at the Iceberg Lounge, some

0:45:41.560 --> 0:45:48.480
<v Speaker 2>kind of protection. It's obviously inevitable, That's yeah. I mean,

0:45:48.520 --> 0:45:51.239
<v Speaker 2>Also we will I'm assuming that we will see at

0:45:51.320 --> 0:45:55.360
<v Speaker 2>least an inkling in Oz's eye that he is gonna

0:45:55.480 --> 0:45:58.279
<v Speaker 2>take the Iceberg Lounge as his own, because that's a

0:45:58.280 --> 0:46:01.799
<v Speaker 2>classic penguin location which we saw owned by Carmine and

0:46:02.440 --> 0:46:03.000
<v Speaker 2>the Batman.

0:46:03.200 --> 0:46:04.360
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, I'm.

0:46:04.160 --> 0:46:06.640
<v Speaker 2>Saying I think this is such a good show. I'm

0:46:06.640 --> 0:46:08.920
<v Speaker 2>obsessed with it. I think all the casting is fantastic.

0:46:09.000 --> 0:46:11.680
<v Speaker 2>I think Carmen and Jogo should definitely be up for

0:46:11.800 --> 0:46:14.640
<v Speaker 2>like a Best Supporting I think, Sophia, I want everyone

0:46:14.680 --> 0:46:15.240
<v Speaker 2>to get an.

0:46:15.160 --> 0:46:16.799
<v Speaker 1>M on this. Everyone is so good.

0:46:16.960 --> 0:46:18.280
<v Speaker 3>This feels like it should.

0:46:18.080 --> 0:46:21.520
<v Speaker 2>Be one of those like twenty two nominations because the

0:46:21.560 --> 0:46:25.680
<v Speaker 2>production design is fantastic, the casting is fantastic, the ensemble

0:46:25.719 --> 0:46:26.440
<v Speaker 2>is fantastic.

0:46:26.719 --> 0:46:27.759
<v Speaker 3>Everything about it is great.

0:46:27.760 --> 0:46:29.359
<v Speaker 2>I'm a big fan, so I hope it gets some

0:46:29.760 --> 0:46:32.680
<v Speaker 2>recognition as we head into f y C. Also, the

0:46:32.760 --> 0:46:36.120
<v Speaker 2>show and it did tease a potential that there could

0:46:36.160 --> 0:46:38.600
<v Speaker 2>be like she has ideas for a season two and

0:46:38.640 --> 0:46:39.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean, who would.

0:46:39.360 --> 0:46:39.880
<v Speaker 1>It's good.

0:46:40.080 --> 0:46:45.759
<v Speaker 3>So I'm like she said that, m I, Colin, we're

0:46:45.760 --> 0:46:47.319
<v Speaker 3>gonna beat We're gonna put you in that suit. Man,

0:46:47.320 --> 0:46:48.400
<v Speaker 3>We're gonna put you in that suit.

0:46:49.200 --> 0:46:51.640
<v Speaker 1>Hey, put the put the put the suit on, Colin. Oh.

0:46:51.680 --> 0:46:53.240
<v Speaker 3>Also, I actually want to shut.

0:46:53.000 --> 0:46:54.759
<v Speaker 1>The fucking suit on. All right, this is.

0:46:54.680 --> 0:46:59.480
<v Speaker 2>Perfect timing Jason with that beautiful impression because one of

0:46:59.480 --> 0:47:02.319
<v Speaker 2>our disco users, firstifar, I want to shout them out

0:47:02.560 --> 0:47:05.279
<v Speaker 2>because I believe this is a first. They said that

0:47:05.320 --> 0:47:08.600
<v Speaker 2>they think they're the first listener to have ever listened

0:47:08.600 --> 0:47:11.839
<v Speaker 2>to your penguin impression in the Antarctic, which is where

0:47:11.880 --> 0:47:15.399
<v Speaker 2>they are right now. So I want to shout out

0:47:15.440 --> 0:47:18.319
<v Speaker 2>first because I do believe you are almost certainly the

0:47:18.320 --> 0:47:22.440
<v Speaker 2>first person who's heard Jason's fantastic penguin impression in the Antarctic.

0:47:22.520 --> 0:47:24.560
<v Speaker 2>So yes, and I'm sure you'll be hearing much more

0:47:24.560 --> 0:47:26.160
<v Speaker 2>of it as we keep covering the show.

0:47:26.719 --> 0:47:28.880
<v Speaker 1>That's right on the next couple of episodes of X

0:47:28.960 --> 0:47:31.720
<v Speaker 1>Ray Vision, we're diving into Agatha one oh seven Okay,

0:47:31.760 --> 0:47:34.560
<v Speaker 1>wait Wednesday, Abu and Aeron are talking about episodes one

0:47:34.600 --> 0:47:38.080
<v Speaker 1>O six seven off Hurricane Season one of Arcane that's

0:47:38.120 --> 0:47:49.880
<v Speaker 1>it for this episode. Thanks for listening. Bye x ray

0:47:49.960 --> 0:47:54.000
<v Speaker 1>Vision is hosted by Jason Gitsubsion and Rosie Knight and

0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:57.839
<v Speaker 1>is a production of iHeart Podcasts. Our executive producers are

0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:02.360
<v Speaker 1>Joelle Smith and Aaron Kaufman. Our supervising producer is a

0:48:02.400 --> 0:48:07.360
<v Speaker 1>Boo z Afar. Our producers are Carmen Laurent and Mia Taylor.

0:48:08.080 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 1>Our theme song is by Brian Basquez.

0:48:10.680 --> 0:48:14.960
<v Speaker 2>Special thanks to Soul Rubin and Chris Laude, Kenny Goodman

0:48:15.320 --> 0:48:17.400
<v Speaker 2>and Heidi our discord moderator.